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Kinect Review

Marks and sensors
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God, I ache.

My left hip feels as brittle as an old codger's elbow. My sardine-sized triceps throb like pre-teen adrenal glands enjoying an audience with Justin Bieber. My Trapezius is stiff enough to suggest someone's furtively injected super-glue under my shoulder bone.

I'm also suffering from other, less physical inconveniences: The aftermath of the incessant banging on my ceiling from the sleep-deprived curmudgeon in the upstairs flat, for instance; the spilled Robinson's stain besmirching my living room carpet; the fact I've had to look up 'Trapezius' online to work out which muscle is causing me jip.

This is how the morning after your first night in with Kinect feels like. At least how it should feel like. If it doesn't - to borrow a phrase this writer's far more used to being on the receiving end of - you're just not doing it right.

And yet for all this pain, for all the explanations and the apologies which befall me after this first comprehensive session, I'm completely charmed by Microsoft's oblong oddity.

Two days later - with plenty more embarrassing, strenuous prancing chalked up - I'm still hurting. But much like the jovial Calibration Creature that helped get me into this mess, I can't stop smiling.

First things first, though. There's been enough talk of smoke and mirrors and misinformation around Kinect already. It's time to come clean: Some of you may as well stop reading here.

Let's do the 'no trainers' checklist:

* Kinect is not for you if... you intend to play it your bedroom. Unless you're Prince Harry, you almost certainly won't have the space. (If you're reading, your Highness, Just Say No.)

* Kinect is not for you if... physical exertion is an issue. As already described, it's likely to exhaust you - especially in those eager first few hours.

* Kinect is not for you if... you're the sort of illogical, sticky-pad crank who refuses to entertain technology also enjoyed by housewives. (If so, may I recommend you consider chucking out your microwave. Warning: You may have to warm your Rustler's burgers on a radiator as a result.)

For the rest of you, Kinect is an absolute pleasure to have in the home. Much more importantly, it's a reliable one.

Within an hour of messing about with the Kinect Dashboard, any nagging question marks over lag and unresponsiveness are snuffed out. Your on-screen hand icon matches your real-life movements near-perfectly, whilst the voice commands (ranging from "Xbox, Kinect" to "Xbox, Zune Highlights") are an absolute revelation.

Likewise, worries that the device won't be able to recognise you sitting down soon fizzle to nothing; I successfully reclined to 'arse off the cotton' levels, whilst still managing to flick between menus, movies and music as if I were swatting away flies.

It looks good on your TV stand, too. A glossy black technology Toblerone - complete with crowd-pleasing nods and whirs every time you boot up your 360 - it has something of the Short Circuit about it; every bit as impressive as it is adorable. (Until you put the launch software in your disc tray, that is - but more on the games later.)

We've previously noted that Kinect will need hardcore gamers to be interested if it's going to be a success; because they're the ones who will best evangelise it to mums, daughters and the like.

Turns out they're probably going to be required in the room just to set the kit up properly. If you want Kinect to respond to both your choice of sitting and standing - and you will, if you use your console for anything other than energetic leaping - you have to calibrate it just so, and it's not an elementary affair.

The more you 'teach' Kinect, the more accurate it becomes. (Indeed, as hinted at by Peter Molyneux in one of his Milo presentations this year, the language and dialect you use with Kinect is stored in the Cloud - should you agree to it - so that Kinect can grow its audio ability worldwide. Spooky.)

In your first few hours with the device, repeated calibration of gesture and voice recognition makes a big difference to responsiveness in the long run - especially if the low ceiling of your lounge means your face is likely to be tainted by lighbulb illumination when you're stood upright.

The Kinect Tuner allows you to adjust the lens up and down so that it 'sees' the maximum amount of your body as possible. It's here you can find the best midway point between sitting and standing - meaning you never need fiddle about with the camera again.

Apparently, Kinect can track 5,000 points on your body, but you only need concentrate on five: head, arms and ankles. Get all these in the picture, and you're away.

Following this, another tracking programme ensures the device can differentiate you from other objects. It's recommended that you carry out this sort of fine tuning in different lighting conditions and at different times of the day - and this is significant advice. Kinect struggled to recognise my exact movements in natural light until I captured myself in the morning via this setup programme. I never encountered the problem again.

There's also an audio setup, which is thankfully straightforward, and the amazingly cheerful Calibration option - where you get to use a smiley card and a virtual pair of glasses to give your Kinect an insight into the size and shape of your living room.

All of this is vital if you want to get the best out of Kinect's RGB camera, depth sensor and microphone. Put in the effort, and the device rewards you handsomely, with the techie's favourite currency - constancy.

Gesture control is at the epicentre of everything Kinect is about - and, once you've completed your setup, can easily be managed from the sofa. A quick wave of the hand will take you to the Kinect Hub, a thinned-down version of the main 360 Dashboard. Once these virtual doors have swung open, you can choose from 17 applications on three screens, each represented by a sizeable square image.

To pick one of these, you hover your hand icon over it for a couple of seconds, until a drawn circle is complete. The time you have to wait has been smartly judged; not too long as to become a pain, not too short as to leave you bumping into programmes you never meant to launch.

To shift from menu to menu, you lock your hand into one of two directional arrows on either side of the screen, and then flick your wrist left or right. It really is that simple - and it really does work like a charm.

The ability to whiz around each page is astonishing - and puts paid to the idea that Kinect can't keep up with sudden arm movements. So long as your camera has been thoroughly calibrated, it will be able to keep pace with your mobility with remarkable consistency.

In the bottom right hand corner of the Kinect Hub at all times is a black and white scan of Kinect's vision, in which your major extremities glow purple. This is shown on a larger scale in the setup screen, which also highlights key points on your skeleton.

Not only are these images packed with sci-fi cool (perfect for stimulating the inner nerd) - but they both indicate an impressive future for Kinect. Try as I might, gesticulating like a spasming loon in every direction caused no issues. Even at my most most physically feverish, these scans showed Kinect reading my fastest, most awkward convulsions in real time. Dare I say it - they indicate that Kinect is capable of something very close to 1:1 tracking. (A shame, then, that this nigh on lag-less depiction couldn't quite make it into all of the launch software.)

The Kinect Hub itself is clean and elegant, but disappointingly restrictive. All the basics are in there - launch game, customise avatar, Inside Xbox, Zune, music, Last.FM - but you're shut off from much of the good stuff.

Want to download a demo or an indie game? Use the controller. Fancy watching the latest E3 or Gamescom report? Ditto. How about grabbing a new Theme or Wallpaper? Best limber up those fingers and thumbs.

There are some neat additions, however. Kinect ID picks out your visage from a crowd and signs you into Xbox Live via facial recognition. The customisation setup, found via the Kinect Hub, sees you moving around a block full of little squares and pulling poses - ensuring that the camera can remember your face and body shape.

Again, the more you complete this in different lighting conditions, the more robust a service it provides. After three days of flouncing around in front of it, my camera now has no difficulties instantaneously spotting me morning, noon or night. Seeing Xbox "recognize" (darn that cursed 'z') my profile from a mere glimpse of my mug still seems wonderfully space age.

Movement might have given Kinect its name, but the audio recognition is the best thing about it. Calling up the Kinect Hub for the first time is a genuine thrill, whilst whizzing through the menus using "Xbox, next" and "Xbox previous" never gets old.

However, the 'deeper' you go, the less impact voice control is permitted. For instance, voice can take you into the Kinect Hub, from one menu to the next, and then into the latest highlights of Zune Player. It can even allow you to skip between selected movie previews, or to pause what you're playing back.

But alas, that's about as precise as it can manage - for now. The dream of "Xbox, Bridge On The River Kwai" will have to wait: If you want to get specific, you're going to have to rely on gesture.

The Sky Player is a similar story. As with Zune, voice can open content - and then pause, fast forward, rewind and stop full programmes. But in terms of menu navigation, it's redundant. (Here's a laugh - you have to use the controller to exit the Sky area once inside.)

Audio limitations are not the last of Kinect's shortcomings - and they're certainly not the most significant. That arrives with the joypad's best friend: Space.

Sitting down might be all very well for navigating Zune and choosing a bit of telly, but when it comes to getting jiggy with Kinect - and its physically demanding software roster - you're going to need to make some room.

The ideal position to tackle two-player Kinect games is seven to ten feet back from the camera. In my average-size one bedroom flat, that kind of clearance takes some rearranging. Kinect's caused tables to be upturned, washing stands to be hastily disassembled, and plenty of clambering over sofa cushions.

However, I have learnt that most strife-filled reconstruction can be avoided by simply pointing the camera towards a more spacious area of the room - usually achievable by turning Kinect to an angle, rather than just parallel with your TV. Thankfully, this doesn't mess with your regular settings if (and I'm going to bang on about it again) you've taken the time to calibrate Kinect properly.

There's no real need for any commotion at all if you're after a single-player experience - which can be comfortably housed six feet from the camera. This is easily manageable. (If your sofa is any closer to the TV than that on any given day, your mother didn't say "square eyes" enough to you in your youth.)

But the fact remains that some multiplayer inconvenience is likely - a rum deal for a gadget which by its very design is supposed to minimise unwieldiness.

Just like Wii, however, if the software's worth it, it's difficult to complain... so expect to complain - at least a little bit.

It's unfair to judge the Kinect game launch line-up too harshly for being mainstream. By now, we know what we're getting - and it doesn't neuter the potential of what's to come.

What is irritating is the noticeable - if minute - deceleration in your control icon's mobility once you've launched a game like Kinect Adventures or Joy Ride. It might only be ever-so-slightly slower than it is in the Kinect Hub menu - but one has to ask why it's slower at all.

There are other in-game quibbles. Every title I've played so far has required I stick my arm out at 45-degrees to bring up a pause menu. However, it follows the old 'two second circle fill' system.

In other words, I'm yet to find a Kinect game that you can pause instantly with your hands; all very well when you're tickling Skittles' chin, not quite so kosher if you're swallowing Nazi gunpowder. If hardcore games are to make a successful transition, it's something Microsoft will have to fix.

As for the launch line-up itself, there's just enough to be admired. I'll leave CVG's single-game reviews to speak for themselves, but Dance Central is every sliver as glorious as it is shameful and Kinect Sports gets better with repeat plays (thus all my aches and pains).

So, we come to the £130 question: Is Kinect worth the pricey retail valuation Microsoft has slapped on it?

It all depends what you're looking for.

If you're after motion gaming that can truly rival the joypad - that can take Wii's blueprint and push it into a new realm of sophistication - I'd give it time. Those Kinect Hub skeletal scan demos are inarguably very exciting, but, for now, they're just tantalising tastes of what's possible. The launch software can't match up.

However, if you're looking for a gizmo that will simultaneously wow your mates, change your sofa-based control habits and offer mouth-moisturising long-term promise into the bargain, you can't go far wrong.

Either way, make sure you test it out at the earliest opportunity. Believer or cynic; hardcore or casual, it's impossible to judge Kinect fairly until you've experienced it yourself.

Personally, I just envy you that first magic encounter. You might not be touching anything at all - but I bet you've felt nothing quite like it.

computerandvideogames.com
// Overview
Verdict
Technically, a gem. As deserving of a spot in a bleeding edge bachelor pad as a housewife's semi.
Uppers
  Accuracy answers the haters - as long as you put the effort into calibrating it
  Voice controls are a marvel
  Gesture controls work without a hitch
  Kinect Hub is a classy deal
Downers
  Kinect Hub is restrictive
  Launch line-up disappoints
// Interactive
               
 
Read all 57 commentsPost a Comment
come on you knew id be first :lol:

Either way, make sure you test it out at the earliest opportunity. Believer or cynic; hardcore or casual, it's impossible to judge Kinect fairly until you've experienced it yourself.

Personally, I just envy you that first magic encounter. You might not be touching anything at all - but I bet you've felt nothing quite like it

That sums up kinect for all the haters out there. it is accurate, it is fun, boy it will get you moving, but moost of all it works and by god when its synced to you correctly it bloody works. Those with no Feedback complaints, you react to what you see on screen and do what is you are trying to do. That is feeback, you are living that game for that moment.
A HERO EMERGES on 4 Nov '10
$150 to wave and talk to a game console... No thanks.

Oh and I know this is a bit off topic but I'm just gonna throw it out there...

In a recent interview with SCEA Marketing Boss John Koller he said this:
�The industry�s best developers are ReMastering their best games. Prince of Persia, Shadow of Colossus, and ICO are just the beginning. When fans see what Konami�s doing to the Metal Gear series, and what Square�s doing with Final Fantasy, they�re going to be very happy.�
Focker420 on 4 Nov '10
@Focker420

So what your saying is Sony have run out of ideas and are now remastering PS1 & PS2 games?! That's lame really lame, thats like MS saying look everyone were going to remaster Halo and KOTOR and charge you top dollar for it! Although now that I think about it a remastered Halo in the Reach engine would be sweet!
Dave_25 on 4 Nov '10
Can the reviewer promise to let us know when he goes back to pads/remotes to navigate menus?5 weeks is my guess.Sweep stake anyone?I keep hearing potential but I'm still yet to hear why it's good for games.
strickers on 4 Nov '10
Wii 2.0

If you like the Wii, you'll like Kinect. If you think Wii was fundamentally flawed and didn't live up to the promise, well, there's your Kinect.

Remember the Wii folks, remember the Wii. If you're still playing yours, pick up a Kinect. If it was a 5 minute novelty that initially seemed cool but was rapidly left gathering dust, you're heading for the same thing here...and instinctively, you know it, don't you?
Mogs on 4 Nov '10
Well that was a good review, most unexpected if I'm honest. So all the talk of lag in games is due to lazy programming then if it exists at all?
chunkyboymania on 4 Nov '10
As much as it stinks of pretending to be EG with the funny tag lines to your reviews...I do love this one :)
altitude2k on 4 Nov '10
In a recent interview with SCEA Marketing Boss John Koller he said this:
�The industry�s best developers are ReMastering their best games. Prince of Persia, Shadow of Colossus, and ICO are just the beginning. When fans see what Konami�s doing to the Metal Gear series, and what Square�s doing with Final Fantasy, they�re going to be very happy.�

Not something to be bragging about there, chap.
altitude2k on 4 Nov '10
I think you should re-review KINECT in a weeks time and let us know how much dust its gathered. Pretty sure the novelty of using hand / voice to control the horrible dashboard will have been crushed.
SlapnutzUK on 4 Nov '10
I think you should re-review KINECT in a weeks time and let us know how much dust its gathered. Pretty sure the novelty of using hand / voice to control the horrible dashboard will have been crushed.

Why would it? I still smile every time I swipe my finger over the screen of my iPhone to flip a page. It's cool. Have you ever gotten bored of using a joypad to navigate menus?

Oh and big thanks to Focker for giving me a hearty chuckle this morning, A: through being the second person to post in response to the review despite being a serial Kinect detractor and bonafide member of the SDF... it's almost as if you were hovering, waiting for it to drop, and B: trying to... actually, I'm not sure what you were trying to do, but throwing 'Sony are remaking loads of games from years ago' out there in reaction to a review on cutting edge new technology wasn't the smartest move to be honest.

Funny though.

This was a good review. I'm definitely not picking it up day one, but it is good to know the tech works, is fun and also what it's limitations are. Good job.
FlimFlam on 4 Nov '10
Bitch bitch bitch, wah wah wah. Play the damn thing - then you can talk.
Balladeer on 4 Nov '10
Wii 2.0

If you like the Wii, you'll like Kinect. If you think Wii was fundamentally flawed and didn't live up to the promise, well, there's your Kinect.

Remember the Wii folks, remember the Wii. If you're still playing yours, pick up a Kinect. If it was a 5 minute novelty that initially seemed cool but was rapidly left gathering dust, you're heading for the same thing here...and instinctively, you know it, don't you?

I'm still playing my wii, going to be picking up Goldeneye the end of this week and really looking forward to Donkey Kong returns.

I bought the wii in the first place for zelda and red steel. I kept it for mario galaxy, no more heroes, The resi 4, prime and pikmin ports among others.

I will probably pick up kinect when there are some games that interest me. Fighters uncaged looks like it could be fun in a potentially living room/tv destroying way, but i'll more than likely get ti when child of eden, and the new stuff from the guy that did panzar dragoon and suda 51 come out.

It'll only become a 5 minute novelty if you can't find games to play on it. So so long as MS support it (and market it well) people will keep playing it.
WHERESMYMONKEY on 4 Nov '10
In a recent interview with SCEA Marketing Boss John Koller he said this:
�The industry�s best developers are ReMastering their best games. Prince of Persia, Shadow of Colossus, and ICO are just the beginning. When fans see what Konami�s doing to the Metal Gear series, and what Square�s doing with Final Fantasy, they�re going to be very happy.�

Not something to be bragging about there, chap.

Are you mad? Millions of people would love to see a remastered MGS and FF. Come on altitude stop bashing the Sony fans in every topic, it's getting old.

Anyway moving back on topic, it's good to see Kinect getting a good review and even better to see MS and Sony both going in different ways in motion control. I think it gives everyone a lot of choice and I'm sure we'll see a lot of clever games going from both sides.
only_777 on 4 Nov '10
Are you mad? Millions of people would love to see a remastered MGS and FF. Come on altitude stop bashing the Sony fans in every topic, it's getting old.

F**k me that's funny!
altitude2k on 4 Nov '10
CVG i wanna know in your opinion what you think is better Move or Kinect?
I know someone is bound to say "oh you can't compare the two, their different" but what do you prefer playing?
a.d on 4 Nov '10
Wii 2.0

If you like the Wii, you'll like Kinect. If you think Wii was fundamentally flawed and didn't live up to the promise, well, there's your Kinect.

Remember the Wii folks, remember the Wii. If you're still playing yours, pick up a Kinect. If it was a 5 minute novelty that initially seemed cool but was rapidly left gathering dust, you're heading for the same thing here...and instinctively, you know it, don't you?

I'm still playing my wii, going to be picking up Goldeneye the end of this week and really looking forward to Donkey Kong returns.

I bought the wii in the first place for zelda and red steel. I kept it for mario galaxy, no more heroes, The resi 4, prime and pikmin ports among others.

I will probably pick up kinect when there are some games that interest me. Fighters uncaged looks like it could be fun in a potentially living room/tv destroying way, but i'll more than likely get ti when child of eden, and the new stuff from the guy that did panzar dragoon and suda 51 come out.

It'll only become a 5 minute novelty if you can't find games to play on it. So so long as MS support it (and market it well) people will keep playing it.

I still don't get how some can write the Wii off as a 'novelty' still. The Wii has just as much in the way of great titles as the PS3 or 360 - I can think of tons of games that I'm still yet to play on it, but want to. It's a tired and dull argument that just doesn't hold any water, I can honestly say that - of all the people I know that own a Wii - none are 'gathering dust in a cupboard'.

I totally agree on what you said about Kinect. I'm keeping an eye out for Child of Eden and I suspect it's the first game that might force me to get Kinect. I'm glad the reviews have been positive so far, it means that it's likely to sell well and continue to recieve support from MS.

The biggest concern was that it'd go the same way as a lot of other console peripherals, but I think that's looking a lot less likely now.

:)
ParmaViolet on 4 Nov '10
I'm going to keep a keen eye on Kinect for the next 12 months before I consider spending good money.

I can just about justify buying Move because I already owned compatible software, such as MAG, Hustle Kings and Resi 5. However, I can't justify spending near �200 for Kinect and a half decent game.

I personally hope that Kinect does well because I'd like to see some truly great games in the future. Which will be exactly the right time to buy one.

For now though, I can't see why any family would consider buying a 360 and Kinect (or PS3 and Move) over the Wii for motion controlled fun, in the short term at least. And that is where the big sales are.
Mark240473 on 4 Nov '10
@CVG, because of this reveiw, consider my ears pricked.......

TBH, I was fairly non-plused about the whole affair, but I am intrigued now.....
captain savaloy on 4 Nov '10
Mogs, I think I love you :)

I also think it's funny that people are ragging on Sony for remaking some of their most popular games as if they're out of ideas. Has nobody seen what's available on Games on Demand or the Nintendo download store? If there's a market for it, why the hell wouldn't they want to fill it? Doesn't make it right because the prices are too high, but they've proved time and time again that people will pay whatever they ask.

Anyway, to get back on topic. Motion control is an annoyance. And I don't mean that in a "waving your arms around is silly" sort of a way, I think it's a great idea. I mean that it's inevitable that both Move and Kinect are going to get the same lame waggle games that the Wii got for the first couple of years. Rather than taking the kind of games the 360 and PS3 have now and giving them a new layer of depth and interaction, what we'll get is Master Chief Volleyball and Uncharted Tennis (or something akin). Sure, the odd developer will go that extra mile and put the effort in, but we will be absolutely inundated with utter crap first.
In fact, look at the launch titles. Bear in mind that these are supposed to showcase the tech. These have been developed by the people who MADE the device and know how to get it working optimally. Check the reviews.

And the worst part? People will buy that crap. People bought it on the Wii, and I remember the excuse at the time being "well there's nothing else". If that is the case then don't buy anything. Don't encourage lazy developers, force them to up their game and save your money for when something good comes out. But be prepared for a wait.
Dajmin on 4 Nov '10
yeah the casuals will still most likely pick up the wii instead, it's the most well know to the casuals, in their price range and does what it's supposed to do straight out of the box.
Having said that the Wii is going to have a great xmas for the hardcore gamers, it's got a really strong line up this xmas, Donkey Kong leading the way for me.
a.d on 4 Nov '10
Oh or Epic Mickey.
a.d on 4 Nov '10
$150 to wave and talk to a game console... No thanks.

Oh and I know this is a bit off topic but I'm just gonna throw it out there...

In a recent interview with SCEA Marketing Boss John Koller he said this:
�The industry�s best developers are ReMastering their best games. Prince of Persia, Shadow of Colossus, and ICO are just the beginning. When fans see what Konami�s doing to the Metal Gear series, and what Square�s doing with Final Fantasy, they�re going to be very happy.�

This is totally off topic, but I think remakes can be a good and a bad thing.

Obviously, it's good that it allows people to play games that they may have missed and means that they get the updated visuals so that the games don't feel as dated as they may have. However, I wouldn't like to think that companies are releasing these updated versions at the expense of new games - if you had the choice, would you want an updated GTA: Vice City, or GTA5?

I know what my answer would be. I've played MGS and FF7 and they're games that - although great - I don't feel the need to replay. I would imagine most gamers are more interested in new ideas, gameplay and stories than they are in things they're already done.

Also, if it's just a case of getting these classics up to the current standard - what happens when the next batch of consoles are released? - will we be getting updated versions of MGS every 5 years?

:)
ParmaViolet on 4 Nov '10
Oh and I know this is a bit off topic but I'm just gonna throw it out there...

In a recent interview with SCEA Marketing Boss John Koller he said this:
�The industry�s best developers are ReMastering their best games. Prince of Persia, Shadow of Colossus, and ICO are just the beginning. When fans see what Konami�s doing to the Metal Gear series, and what Square�s doing with Final Fantasy, they�re going to be very happy.�

What does that have to do with the Kinect review? :|

Anyway....

I'm really glad that it's getting good reviews, if anything, just to say "Poke it" to the SDF et all. I wasn't planning on picking this up till some games which interest came out, but I have to say I'm leaning more toward getting it now.

I'm ashamed to say it but Dance Central looks kinda good :shock:
Spacereamer on 4 Nov '10
First point, Sky are not owned by Rupert Murdoch yet, News Corp only own a 39% stake so he is just a shareholder. Vince Cable referred the proposed takeover of BSkyB to Ofcom so it is possible that it will never happen, though as the Tories are now Murdoch�s lapdogs it is highly likely it will. Dull I know but an important clarification to make.

Secondly, anyone who describes fellow humans as �casuals� is a wanker.

Thirdly, I�m also going to wait for a good while before even thinking about investing in this. It looks like it has potential but Microsoft will need to make sure it works with the whole system, and release some games that appeal to me, before spending wonga on it.
Conkers on 4 Nov '10
Well thats the teens screwed if you can't play it in the bedroom. :lol:

My problems with it is that i don't think it can pick up all the essential small movements, and the obvious no buttons issue, which mean limited games and that shows in kinect's launch line-up. Which are mostly in my opinion, wii copies.
MattyR95 on 4 Nov '10
Erm i think every real gamer uses the term 'casual'
a.d on 4 Nov '10
Erm i think every real gamer uses the term 'casual'

What makes a �real gamer�? Being some fat, sport and bespectacled nerd that sits there in a darkened bedroom hunched over a keyboard while they play World of Warcraft? That�s still the stereotypical view of gamers perceived by most.

Using casual gaming as a term to describe the experience you have and what you can expect is fine, but far too often these days rage filled goons in the internet use it as some kind of defensive slur against some housewives and kids, and a fair few blokes, who fancy it a bit of a giggle in front of the TV invading their cherished hobby. It�s pathetic.
Conkers on 4 Nov '10
Having read a few reviews, I'll be keeping my pre-order. Dance Central is a definite purchase, I'll wait and see which fitness game turns out best.
Black Mantis on 4 Nov '10
Oh Focker, that's got to be some of the worst sweeping and spinning I've ever seen on here.

'OK this us a Kinect review but have you seen what Sony are doing!? Sad really.

I'll be picking up Kinect as to me it seems cool and all this talk of 'core' and 'casual', what does this actually mean? A gamers us someone who plays games, really very simple!
StonecoldMC on 4 Nov '10
Yes some people use the term casual in a derogative way but casual is as the word suggest, a casual gamer without a vast knowledge of videogames. I myself have nothing against casual gamers but like most people don't want to see developers putting all their time and effort into making games aimed at that market neglecting making more games that i want to see released.
a.d on 4 Nov '10
Erm i think every real gamer uses the term 'casual'

What makes a �real gamer�? Being some fat, sport and bespectacled nerd that sits there in a darkened bedroom hunched over a keyboard while they play World of Warcraft? That�s still the stereotypical view of gamers perceived by most.

Using casual gaming as a term to describe the experience you have and what you can expect is fine, but far too often these days rage filled goons in the internet use it as some kind of defensive slur against some housewives and kids, and a fair few blokes, who fancy it a bit of a giggle in front of the TV invading their cherished hobby. It�s pathetic.

But the casuals won't care because they're oblivious to the deeper world of gaming.

I think it's much more pathetic that many hardcore gamers have a need to be validated by the wider world and are ashamed of their geek status.
Mogs on 4 Nov '10
And a stereotypical gamer is probably a fat nerd who does'nt get out but i like to think it's someone who appreciates triple A games, has a good knowledge of games and spends a fair ammount of time playing.
A Casual is someone would be someone who does'nt play many games, just picks up Wii sports every couple of weeks, doesn't really care about triple A games. Again nothing wrong with that but it's a term the entire industry uses.
a.d on 4 Nov '10
8.8? So, not quite the failure the haters wanted it to be.
equinox80 on 4 Nov '10
Oh Focker, that's got to be some of the worst sweeping and spinning I've ever seen on here.

'OK this us a Kinect review but have you seen what Sony are doing!? Sad really.

I'll be picking up Kinect as to me it seems cool and all this talk of 'core' and 'casual', what does this actually mean? A gamers us someone who plays games, really very simple!

I hate all this Core/Casual nonsense as well. I completed Reach on Legendary solo, yet I can see myself having a blast with the Kinect/Move/Wii. All that should concern a gamer, is whether they can see themselves having fun with a game/peripheral/console. If you can't fair do's, just don't dismiss other gamers tastes because they don't mimic yours.
Black Mantis on 4 Nov '10
And a stereotypical gamer is probably a fat nerd who does'nt get out but i like to think it's someone who appreciates triple A games, has a good knowledge of games and spends a fair ammount of time playing.
A Casual is someone would be someone who does'nt play many games, just picks up Wii sports every couple of weeks, doesn't really care about triple A games. Again nothing wrong with that but it's a term the entire industry uses.

Fair enough, then I misread what you were getting at so I apologise. It just annoys me when people use �casual� as some kind of insult, which tends to happen more and more these days from people who call themselves 'hardcore' (just what the f**k is a hardcore gamer? Does it involve shoving peripherals up your arse?) maybe I just need more coffee as I feel a little grumpy�
Conkers on 4 Nov '10


I think it's much more pathetic that many hardcore gamers have a need to be validated by the wider world and are ashamed of their geek status.

What makes a �harcore� gamer then Mogs, please enlighten me. I play games regularly, probably about an hour a day or so when I get in from work but I�d never class myself as �hardcore� the connotations of it are far too wanky for my liking.

I�m not sure anyone on here could claim not to be some kind of geek, purely by coming on a gaming website and commenting on s**t makes you a massive geek. I have no shame in that, I make up for it in other ways because I once touched a girl, admittedly it was being pressed up against her on the tube but that's kind of like having sex right?
Conkers on 4 Nov '10
Oh Focker, that's got to be some of the worst sweeping and spinning I've ever seen on here.

'OK this us a Kinect review but have you seen what Sony are doing!? Sad really.

I'll be picking up Kinect as to me it seems cool and all this talk of 'core' and 'casual', what does this actually mean? A gamers us someone who plays games, really very simple!

I hate all this Core/Casual nonsense as well. I completed Reach on Legendary solo, yet I can see myself having a blast with the Kinect/Move/Wii. All that should concern a gamer, is whether they can see themselves having fun with a game/peripheral/console. If you can't fair do's, just don't dismiss other gamers tastes because they don't mimic yours.

I never said a core gamer shouldn't enjoy playing a casual game. I've had great fun on the wii as with the move. But i'd prefer to play red dead or castlevania anyday.
Anyway enough of all this casual stuff i'm beginning to make myself sick of it, i've never used the term as much as i have today lol. :D
a.d on 4 Nov '10
On the Northern Line, yeah? Was that you? I had long hair then dude. That wasn't a girl...

I've got to say, bringing up Sony HD remakes in a Kinect article is pretty f**king ridiculous, but then you see who posted it!

Regarding kinect, a CVG review on it's own has never and probably will never, sway me either way. Certainly won't be picking it up at launch though but there is always that novel idea of not slagging something off just because you don't like it personally.
ricflair on 4 Nov '10
On the Northern Line, yeah? Was that you? I had long hair then dude. That wasn't a girl...

But it still counts right? It meant something special to me, especially with everyone looking, it was just how I imagined it...
Conkers on 4 Nov '10
On the Northern Line, yeah? Was that you? I had long hair then dude. That wasn't a girl...

But it still counts right? It meant something special to me, especially with everyone looking, it was just how I imagined it...

Losing your B-plates or V-plates...same result in the end.
altitude2k on 4 Nov '10
Well I've notched it in my bed post, so I guess you can too.
ricflair on 4 Nov '10
let face it this tech isnt gonna be for core gamers yet, but people who totally write it off annoy me. i dont see why, in a few years time, we wont be playing and enjoying "hardcore" games with fully motion technology. all it takes is a bit of imagination to think of some possibilities. obviously thats something that a lot of posters here dont have much of.
fieldofpoppies on 4 Nov '10
Yeah as long as they don't completely neglect or dessert normal controller based games, if it ain't broke...
a.d on 4 Nov '10
how can you attach a score to a review for hardware, that relies on software, that's in its infancy... and is currently crap?!

least EG didn't feel the need to give it a score.

what's next? a metacritic score?!

can't wait to hear peoples opinion on it that payed all that money for a dancing game and a wii sports rip off.

oh yes, great fun. well worth �130. we are gamers, we game... pass the sick bag.
svd_grasshopper on 4 Nov '10
FOCKER I BEG YOU, PLEASE STOP OWNING YOURSELF ON A DAILY BASIS!! I USED TO THINK IT WAS FUNNY BUT NOW IT JUST MAKES ME SAD FOR YOU!! Somebody help him.

Anyway, I feel a lot more excited after this review. I knew it would be cool but now it's got the CVG stamp of approval I can't wait.
NEO_SUPERMAN on 4 Nov '10
how can you attach a score to a review for hardware, that relies on software, that's in its infancy... and is currently crap?!

Build quality, whether it works or not, features...

You seem to forget it is a control system for the console, it doesn't have to have software for it to navigate menu's or recognise voice commands etc.

What Car reviews cars, Which reviews microwaves and vacuum cleaners, hell one of my favourite sites reviews hot sauces. All reviews are valid in the context of the item being reviewed, and Kinect has enough functionality away from games themselves to warrant a score I feel.
FlimFlam on 4 Nov '10
it still relies on SOFTWARE!

unless the 8.8 is a reflection on how well you can wave the menus across with your hand. :roll:

you are all falling for the hype hook, line and sinker.

its best launch game - dance central...

you are going to look like a cross between louie pineapple and a constipated mr. motivator prancing about your living room.

have you no shame?! :shock::lol:
svd_grasshopper on 4 Nov '10
Kinect is not for you if... you're the sort of illogical, sticky-pad crank who refuses to entertain technology also enjoyed by housewives. (If so, may I recommend you consider chucking out your microwave. Warning: You may have to warm your Rustler's burgers on a radiator as a result.)
PS360MAN on 4 Nov '10
Ok we will give a five now because the launch games arn't for the 'hardcore', but you know what lets give it a 9 when it gets some 'hardcore' games, get real!
anytime on 4 Nov '10
it still relies on SOFTWARE!

unless the 8.8 is a reflection on how well you can wave the menus across with your hand. :roll:

you are all falling for the hype hook, line and sinker.

its best launch game - dance central...

you are going to look like a cross between louie pineapple and a constipated mr. motivator prancing about your living room.

have you no shame?! :shock::lol:

I agree, I shall be waiting a while before picking kinect up. Judging by this review the tech is good but without great game (imo) im just not interested. I'm not giving MS �130 for what is to me nothing but potential so far.

Plus as someone else said above I would be genuinly interested to know whether CVG or anybody else prefer Move or Kinect (regardless of cost and fanboyism aside) at the moment as I have a PS3 too and have yet to try Move.
dog_man_STAR on 4 Nov '10
Hi folks,

Cheers for the comments. If you've got any burning questions, stick 'em under the story through here http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=273691 and I'll do my best to answer them for tomorrow.

Tim
Tingham on 4 Nov '10
Sounds to me like kinect is an unfinshed product and all the reviews are like this "it may be good someday soon when it gets the stuff it needs".......but then again thats how the games industry is at the moment


I bought move a month ago....i sold move yesterday, fun but its just not for me...same with kinect. Fun at first and fun at parties.....then you wanna sit down and play fable 3 or uncharted
JAKEevans on 4 Nov '10
Ok, I'll admit, my post was completely unnecessary.

:hangs head in shame:
Focker420 on 4 Nov '10
how can a peripheral that eliminates most game genres and leaves the remaining ones handicapped get such a high score?
fps_d0minat0r on 4 Nov '10
Going to be a massive amount of disappointed kids this Christmas http://www.gamesradar.com/f/oh-dear-my- ... 2019187027 lets just hope that M$ make this perfectly clear for all the parents sake.
Mmmmgrolsch on 4 Nov '10
A3RO_DYNAMIK on 4 Nov '10
Kinect?the goverment is spying on you.
one thing to remember,if your getting it on with the missus turn the camera the other way..
TOKEN on 5 Nov '10
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