I'm dubious though, about the idea that Americans say they want less $ in exchange for working less. In my experience, time off seems to have no value at all, whereas stuff has a lot of value.

I just think that Americans are greedier than other cultures. And I think they've been trained to be that way by advertising and a culture of consumption above all else.

Back when I was working as an expat in Germany, my small group of American colleagues started out with a feeling of superiority that we were willing to work a month per year longer than our German colleagues (with our two weeks versus their six weeks of vacation). Eventually we came around to their way of thinking; we certainly weren't 10% more productive than the locals.

Basically, they just felt sorry for us, the way we might have felt sorry for some poor schlub from the Soviet Union back in the 80s

But Europeon laziness also makes their workers less productive than American workers.

Link

"A new report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows the U.S. with real gross domestic product per person in 2003 of $34,960 (in 1999 dollars). This is well above every European country. The most productive European country, Norway, has a per capita GDP of just $30,882 (converted using purchasing power parity exchange rates). The major countries of Europe are even further behind: United Kingdom ($26,039), France ($25,578), Italy ($24,894), and Germany ($24,813)."

Speaking of vacations...

Just one day after the Iraqi government received failing marks in President Bush's surge interim progress report, Americans learned that the Iraqi parliament is proceeding with its plans to take off the month of August. But while the American people may be up in arms, President Bush's amen corner is predictably silent. After all, given Bush's own record-setting penchant for vacationing during crises here at home, Republicans are understandably reticent to criticize the absentee government in Baghdad.

For the details, see:
"Republicans Quiet on Iraqi - and Bush - Vacations."

I think there is at least one post in the liberal blogosphere every summer about this issue. I look forward to nothing changing and seeing the same post next summer ;)

We might take more vacation if we weren't so afraid of having our jobs on the chopping blocks.

2 burrs:

There's an infinite amount of money and a finite amount of time.

Do you shovel shit for a living or live to shovel shit?

I'm at work now. It is Sunday. I have worked the last five weekends straight. I should have had 10 days off during the July 4 week, but I ended up working every day including July 4. I have over 6 months accrued vacation; the company had to waive it's upper limit because I can never get time off approved.

In the meantime, my company's market is being destroyed by Chinese competition that uses slave labor to beat us on price, has no environmental regulation so they can lower their price even more, and my government is effectively borrowing $200B a year from them so they can finance a stupid war.

I may be stupid but I am better off than that guy who is on his 5th deployment in Iraq or the Chinese girl who is never allowed to leave the factory compound unless it is to have sex with a company manager.

And maybe we're rich *because* we don't take all those vacations.

"A new report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows the U.S. with real gross domestic product per person in 2003 of $34,960 (in 1999 dollars). This is well above every European country. The most productive European country, Norway, has a per capita GDP of just $30,882 (converted using purchasing power parity exchange rates). . .

"In other words, Europeans produce no more per year than Americans did 20 years ago. And they are not catching up."

Funny. Unfortunately, the numbers that Bartlett references have just been updated, and Norway has caught up and passed the U.S. (Not by much, and it's the only European country that did, but still, it tells us how much we should trust NRO bloviations.)

I think another factor is the merger of sick leave and vacation to create a single block of days. I can't take all my vacation at once because, I need to have sick days available in December-- but since December is a busy time of the year I can't afford to take vacation time then, so the days will just roll over and maybe next year....

And maybe we're rich *because* we don't take all those vacations.

We are rich because we can run deficits that no other country in the world could afford. We get 6 figures salaries because the chinese keep buying bonds, the arabs keep bringing their petrodollars to America and the savings of the higher classes in latin america and other thirld world countries is invested in Wall Street. Deduct the deficit proportionally to your salary and you'll be a whole lot poorer. Get the foreigners to invest somewhere else and we'll be a whole lot poorer.

The 'productivity' of americans is mostly a myth.

European laziness? Talk about missing the point. Perhaps they have wisely chosen to be a bit less productive in order to maintain a healthier lifestyle, or at least one in which they get a bit more leisure time than us "hard working" Americans. Maybe they have figured out that it's worth enjoyning life along the way, and that a country that fails to take advantage of all that productivity is missing the boat. There is no prize for being the most productive nation. There apparently is, however, a prize for striking a slightly different balance, and being a bit less productive: a couple weeks more of rest and leisure each year. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Imagine that. We might actually have something to learn from our European friends. Even the French. (Gasp.)

Americans suffer from Stockholm syndrome, or some similar sickness of the mind whereby we are absolutely incapable of seeing (or at least not admitting) when we are being taken advantage of to our detriment.

The merger of sick days with time off hasn't boosted our time off, it's made us more reluctant to take vacation time for fear of an unexpected illness or injury that would at once cost us money we don't have and force us to be away from work without pay.

We would have had universal health care more than a decade ago, but for the Republicans. They are the architects of a system that puts corporate profits (and their kickbacks) above all else... and Americans seem to go for it because the Republican platform always contains popular scapegoats for the frustrated populace to hate: minorities, gays, welfare moms, abortion advocates, atheists, immigrants, the UN, and so on.

This American pathology reminds me of the fable about the scorpion and the turtle. A scorpion sees a turtle that is about to cross a river and asks for a ride on the turtle's back. The turtle is reluctant, because it fears the scorpion will sting it. The scorpion tells the turtle his fears are illogical - if he were to sting the turtle, the turtle would drown along with the scorpion. That makes sense to the the turtle, so he agrees to give the scorpion a ride on his back across the river. Half way across the scorpion stings the turtle. "Why!?" screams the turtle. "Now we're both going to die!". The scorpion answers "it's in my nature".

The people in this country are never going to wake up and give themselves universal health care, 6 weeks of paid vacation, government funded college tuition, or other perks that all of the other civilized western industrialized nations provide to their citizens because, when it comes down to it, there will always be just enough voters who have more hatred in their hearts for gays, minorities, liberals, liberated women, etc. than they have concern for their own wellbeing (yet alone the wellbeing of their fellow citizens).

where did you get the figure that the French were behind anyone in productivity?, Al? the French are among the most productive in the world.

living and working in Switzerland, I can tell you that vacation is considered a sacred right here, but being sick isn't.

I can't believe what they do with their vacations days though. no imagination. Majorca, Cyprus or Spain. the most adventurous will venture to Florida.

What anon said.

Americans have far less job security than Europeans, and a much less secure safety net. We are AFRAID to take vacations, because co-workers who take less time off are more productive.

I wonder if the people who don't take vacations are the same people who are terminally bored upon retirement. I taught for 30 years and enjoyed every minute off I got. Until the last few years I was not able to take the summers off because I either needed/wanted to take more classes and/or had to work to make ends meet. I did definitely have vacations though and since retirement a year ago have not been a bit bored; nor wanted in the least to go back to work.

There must be a link between vanishing vacation time and rising inequality. Not sure what it is though.

I do know that as an American living in Europe, I have a great deal of difficulty contemplating going back to the US and its 2 weeks of vacation.

I currently have 30 days and can routinely take a day off, so long as the work gets done. This is for an American organization. My German co-workers often comment that I am over-worked.

Some people do take less money for more time off. Who do you think takes all those IT jobs at universities? There was a time there in the late '90s when you could literally double your salary by going corporate. Now it's a more reasonable 20-30% difference.

I foten wonder why Americans bother to work at all. Didn't Cheney say deficits don't matter. Just put everything on the goverment tab.

I foten wonder why Americans bother to work at all. Didn't Cheney say deficits don't matter. Just put everything on the goverment tab.

Ezra wrote:

"And you would think that, as our wealth grew and our productivity increased, a certain amount of our resources would go into, well, us."

Way too many people are missing the point: Where are our resources going if not "into us"? GDP is up, productivity is up, but wages and median income have effectively stagnated over the past several years. Where's the money going?

Meanwhile, who says the average American gets two weeks of vacation per year? Who is the average American. It's certainly not the non-union blue collar worker toiling for a small company. He or she typically gets only one week of personal time off per year, and that has to cover sick days, as well. It's not the ever growing number of permanent part time workers used by large companies in low margin industries. They get nothing.

So, where's the money going? Duh. The title of Kevin's subsequent post, "The New Gilded Age," says it all. The class war is raging, but only one side is fighting.

I'm in academics and , even so, took the summer off for the first time when I was 45 years old. First time since I was in middle school. It was very disorienting. I lost track of the day of the week, my circadian rhythm got all messed up, etc. Needless to say, I've been doing the same every summer since 8^)... Every American should have the opportunity to be so disoriented at least once a year.

....But Europeon laziness also makes their workers less productive than American workers..... Al at 12:36 PM

...The main reason the US is richer is because, first, a higher proportion of Americans are in employment and, secondly, they work about 20 per cent more hours per year than Europeans. When we look at GDP in 2005 per person per hour worked, there is virtually no difference between Germany, France and the US.
Economists often speak of this as revealing different American and European social preferences for work and leisure. In truth, both the employment rate and how long the average person works are explained mainly by political history. Until the late 1970s total hours worked were falling both in Europe and in the USA; since then, total hours worked have continued to fall in the EU-15 but have risen again in the US. Equally, if we look at employment data by age group, Americans join the work force earlier and leave it far later than Europeans. The key to understanding why this has happened is the change in US income distribution over the past 30 years. Since 1979, the bottom 40 per cent of income earners in the US has been treading water while the bottom 20 per cent has become poorer. US workers have needed to put in more years and longer hours simply to maintain their real income position....

At one place I worked, it was well-known policy that vacations were taken "at the convenience of the management," which essentially meant never. But even for those who did manage to take vacations, staffing was such that there wasn't any cover for the work that needed to be done. So taking a week or two simply meant doing those weeks' work in the time on either side of the vacation. Net reduction in stress and hours worked: zero.

Kevin -
Do more analysis and less unfocused ruminating about these things. You could at least have nodded to the awareness that growing corporate power and decreasing enforcement and defining of "overtime" is behind much of this. I say: push the other way by demanding hourly pay and 1.5X OT (or at least straight time OT) accounting (with bonus additions OK) for all workers, and no "exempt" status.

tyrannogenius

Back when tax levels in Europe were comparable to those in the U.S., Europeans and Americans worked about the same number of annual hours. Vacation time went up in Europe because it was the one benefit that couldn't be taxed. Check this out:

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/pubs/region/03-12/clement.cfm?js=0

We're required to take at least 5 business days in a row off every year to expose any scam/fraud.

The typical American, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, sleeps one to two hours less a night than his or her parents did.

And it's all on account of your Goddam Daylight Slaving Time, Drum!

Ah, Kevin.

Oh, great! Another bigshot liberal who knows what's good for us.

You want to live like Europe? Go move there, I'll buy your ticket. But when you get there, don't complain about the eurosclerosis, the reduced living standards, the raging high unemployment, the substandard customer service and the rigor mortis economy.

If 2 weeks vacation is what the market has deemed most efficient, then who is anyone else to argue with it? Let the market find the sweet spot. If some shiftless goof who doesn't like working wants a job with more weeks of vacation, let him find a job with that. There out there.

As for me, I love working. Working is what makes America great. When I work, I make myself richer and I make America stronger. Probably why you libs hate work. Eat your heart out, Leftists!

Every single year I ask for more vacation in lieu of a raise. I am told by my 70 something boss, "sorry, we can't do that".
I have to work for this f***in company TEN F***ING YEARS before Im eligible for a 3rd week of vacation.
For context, I am a commercial Interior Designer in an Architectural firm.

I've actually wondered a lot what defines a person as being "richer" than 20 years ago. Going by income, we certainly are. Yet there's a huge chunk of young professionals (myself included) who are writing out 25% of their salaries in loan payments every month to pay off our college debt.

Might be interesting to do a vacation-income comparison using income twentiles, to see what the breakdown is. I'm fairly confident that CEO's get more than 2 weeks vacation per year.

The comment by Augustus at 1:48 set off a few bells in my head. I think he/she has got hold of a real nugget of truth running as kind of an undercurrent in his/her comment that I would like to riff off of a little.

The republican party platform dangles certain "gems", specifically crafted to attract the bigoted and the selfish (and there are plenty of each) into its fold, and then relies on the fact that the emotional grip of these personal prejudices blinds them to the fact (or at least is stronger than the fact) that the larger more nuanced agendas of the party are exactly counter to their true self interest.

The republican party further paints the relinquishing of civil liberties, freedom of speech, privacy, leisure time, universal health care, safety nets for the sick poor and disabled, etc. as some sort of noble sacrifice that the true believer should willingly make in the service of the greater good, that good being cleverly defined as protection from "the other". The notion of "the other" plays off of the bigotry and selfishness usually as "brown people coming to our shores to kill us in our beds", or, if not that then to "take our jobs and our money and corrupt our morals and our values."

Meanwhile the real agendas of the republican party are effectively power grabs of an encroaching oligarchy bent on creating two classes in America, the servants and the served.

But I wander. To return to the more narrow subject of this thread, taking of more than minimal vacation time has been drummed into our heads as unAmerican. If we don't continue to shop the 'terrists' will have won. To continue shopping we must make lots of money. To do that we mustn't take time off. Leisure has been redefined as laziness. Who believes this stuff? The true believers whose prejudices and selfishness has drawn them into the republican fold. Unfortunately their numbers, when combined with corporate big business and the rest of the oligarchy, are legion. Thus are we locked into the republican "work ethic".

I'd write more if I could get a vacation...

Having been caught up in Silicon Valley (and SF Corporate) work-life for decades, I now see more clearly the pressures associated.

- fear you'd be looked over or screwed in the numerous re-orgs that occured, or your pet policy/project would be buried when you were gone.

- bosses who implied or stated that unless you were working 50-60 hours a week, you weren't 'loyal' (long before Bush 'loyalty').

- desire to convert unused vacation time into cash to keep up with the 'relative positioning' that Ezra describes in his op-ed (got to pay for that BMW, right?).

- the expense of taking vacation away from home
[my comment at Ezra's blog: Vacations cost a lot. You spend more than double (or triple even) for a place to sleep and shower (your home plus rental space at usually multiple $100s per night). You have time to spend money shopping and paying for recreation. You eat out for every meal. Transportation is expensive.

It seems to me that this intense competitiveness of worker v. worker is encouraged/damanded by many firms, and has become the cultural norm, especially in those industries that attract change-oriented, upwardly mobile workers. Work becomes an addiction and a protection against slipping on the ladder to 'success'.

Al, the statistics you cite are not related to the point you're trying to make. If you want to cite worker productivity per hour IIRC, which the French lead the world in, you might have something.

When you add in 30 years of stagnant real median wages and the US' rising Gini index score, you have to ask yourself if we are actually richer or if only a small portion of the country has gotten richer over how our work ethic has become twisted in the past few decades.

The idea of a "vacation" was originally conceived as a full consecutive week or two off. A significant "leisure event" of some kind was actually planned. Nowadays, vacation is "accrued" in little increments and used in little increments each week. When I worked in the '70's and '80's you were expected to use the *entire week* and it was scheduled as such ahead of time. In the '90's it changed. Vacation could then be taken in a tiny 8hr chunk of time (a full day). Now it can be taken in 1/10th hour chunks. Another phenomenon is the frequency with which we switch jobs voluntarily or involuntarily. You used to be able to work for some companies for a long time and eventually get a full month of vacation ever year. Companies just don't last long enough. Everything is restructured and reorganized constantly. All of the *churning* is creating a society of new employees that never reach an adequate level of vacation... AND also don't get to stay long enough to garner promotions and merit pay raises, etc. That might also help explain the stagnant wage situation:
1) Import cheap labor
2) Export our industries
3) Save money on compensation and benefits from the churning (turnover)
4) Keep the profits.

I can relate as I rarely take a vacation; I have put off dream vacations and even passed on going to Hawaii...crazy, I guess....a couple long weekends at Virginia Beach or Myrtle Beach, and that's it for me.
I get a ton of vacation days at work--have accumulated 400 hours, but just never go....

Probably some sort of disturbance they have yet to write about in the DSM IV. An adjustment disorder with mixed poor judgment and ridiculous thinking that I should be at work every Monday!

I work in a union shop in Canada. We are required by law to take our weeks every year-if we don't, we are ASSIGNED the time off.
Also, the Labo(u)r Code gives us 3 weeks vacation yearly after 5 years, 4 weeks after 10 years and 5 weeks after 15 years (at the same job). I tell ya, the best thing about my job is spending less time at it!

Taking a vacation is impossible when the bosses think like Egbert, which most of them do, because they got promoted not through effectiveness but through slavish displays of devotion.

Business loves to set workers against each other. If you take a vacation, someone else's agenda will get more exposure and/or they'll take over your function. Keeping workers scared and neurotic boosts productivity.

Kevin, you love statistical analysis. Your homework is to figure out, both within America and worldwide, how directly levels of vacation (correcting for income and position in the corporate hierarchy) correspond with better health. I think the result would be pretty shocking. It's just not healthy to never take a complete break.

My dad does that. He NEVER gets sick so he aways gets full up on his vacation time. Then he takes a month off of work. Or for his sick leave he takes a month off (he has high blood pressure) and then goes back to work. With my parents work has ALWAYS stopped at 5pm and stayed at the office. We also used to take about a month of vacation each year, two weeks in the spring and two in the summer/fall.

If someone gets benefit by telling you to work instead of vacationing or tells you to stop asking for a raise or you might lose your job, then what you have is a balance of power problem.

We need to institute ways for everyone to accrue some wealth and to get to enjoy it, whether it's vacation time or physical assets or money.

We should probably start with a health care system reform which will benefit everyone.

Maybe we should concern ourselves a bit less about how Europeans think about vacations. Not too many people lie awake nights worrying about Norway outcompeting the United State. Or France.

How do they think about vacations in places like India, China, or Japan?

I'm fairly interested in the sociology and history of vacationing. So I've read a fair amount about it. Americans and Europeans have had a very different idea about what to do with modern era wealth -- the Europeans particularly have foregone the financial rewards that Americans have (and I'm talking the middle and upper classes here) and instead poured their new-found 20th century wealth into vacationing. The American history of vacationing has always been about justifying the vacation as a form of practical leisure -- of working while playing. American tourism and vacationing has stressed Religion and Intellectual pursuits. Most American tourist spots began life as religious colonies. Particularly Methodist. There is a fundamental different cultural attitude about work, pleasure and increases in wealth and who and what its supposed to benefit. As an anthropologist, these ideas are not likely to just change and just because many of us share a common history with Europeans does it mean that in the end will have similar ideas about this. Leisure for leisure is not part of the American mythology of itself. There are several books I'd recommend on this topic -- Working at Play is a good start, though.

DC1974, What about the concept that the people who emigrated from Europe and came here were more hyperactive and neurotic and such and that explains the differences? Genetic predisposition to be obsessive-compulsive about working, perfectionism, etc.? I guess what I'm asking since you are an anthropologist-does a formal theory exist and who proposes it?

I am working for a European government overseas, and get six weeks paid holiday every year, plus three travel days and the fare home once a year. Today and the next two days I am taking some time off, just because it is very hot and I feel like a break, and from mid-August to mid-September I am going home for a long vacation. This is considered absolutely normal. If I get sick, it does not impinge on my free time, in fact even if I fall sick during the vacation, the sick days are not counted as vacation time. Plus I have tenure and the freedom to come late to the office, or take long lunch breaks when I wish, all this earning a quite nice salary fourteen times a year. I do feel a bit sorry for you poor overworked schlubs, but then I reflect that you get the government and laws you deserve, so it is up to you to do something about it.

Like dal20402, I'm sick--though for different but complementary reasons of the line, always recited on these occasions, this time by Egbert. The idea that we might learn something from the way things are done elsewhere, just as people elsewhere might learn from what we do--how shocking! This is a democracy--we citizens have a say in how we do things in what is after all our country (too), not the exclusive possession of right-wing nuts. If you don't like it, why don't you go to Paraguay or, these days, Burma, where people don't have a say.

Vacation
All I ever wanted
Vacation
Had to get away
Vacation
Meant to be spent alone

Vacation
All I ever wanted
Vacation
Had to get away
Vacation
Meant to be spent alone

And maybe we're rich *because* we don't take all those vacations.

Who's "WE"? You must be using the royal we, because I just balanced my checkbook.

I just balanced my checkbook.

show-off!

Most Americans have nothing else to do but work, so what's the difference?

France's Le Monde had an article recently on the Country without Vacation. Guess who?

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3232,36-929636,0.html

Some quotes:

"Americans envy the 'unending' vacations of the French." (OK, that's typical French: they think people envy them, where actually many Americans are proud to be working so much.)

"...Americans have the smallest number of vacation days in the industrialized world, even less than the Japanese..."

"...one in four in the private sector don't even have the right [to take vacation]..."

Oh, I get 42 days a year, and in 3 weeks I'll be taking my annual summer vacation of 3 weeks.

France's Le Monde had an article recently on the Country without Vacation. Guess who?

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3232,36-929636,0.html

Some quotes:

"Americans envy the 'unending' vacations of the French." (OK, that's typical French: they think people envy them, where actually many Americans are proud to be working so much.)

"...Americans have the smallest number of vacation days in the industrialized world, even less than the Japanese..."

"...one in four in the private sector don't even have the right [to take vacation]..."

Oh, I get 42 days a year, and in 3 weeks I'll be taking my annual summer vacation of 3 weeks.

Leave your job for two days and some immigrant might get it. We have money but no security.

It always amuses me to hear conservatives talk endlessly about family values and then ignore the fact that vacations in the US have virtually disappeared. When do you actually spend time with your family when you have no vacations ?

When I work, I make myself richer and I make America stronger. Probably why you libs hate work. Eat your heart out, Leftists!
Posted by: egbert

Just how stronger does America get when you ask a customer "Do you want fries with that?", dunce?

well, since no one else has mentioned it here, the UK finally changed the law so that employers cannot use bank holidays as vacation days for their employees, i.e. counting statutory holidays as vacation days. Yes, the employers in the UK actually did this!

makes you want to rush off and work there, doesn't it? so much for the miracle UK economy!

Different strokes for different folks. You Americans are cash rich, I, as a Brit who enjoys 35 days of leave a year, am leisure time rich. Personally, as an old hippie, I'm taking time to smell the flowers but, if you want to spend your time working, so be it.

My wife forces me to use my vacation. In truth, I'd feel better if I could convert some of it to cash. My problem is that I have a pervasive sense of insecurity that makes me distinctly uncomfortable during vacation times. A good part of this is my own anxiety (Maybe I should ask to up my meds), but I am sure it is shared by many.

I once heard a report about this on the radio. The report said that the French work some ridiculous percent fewer days than Americans. It went on to say that their "productivity" was also less. What struck me then was that the loss of productivity was a fraction of the reduction in work. I don't remember the numbers, but it was something like saying: "The French work about 12% fewer hours than Americans, and enjoy themselves more. They do this at the expense of productivity, since a French worker produces only 97% as much as an American."

When I heard this, I thought that a 12% reduction in labor that results in only a 3% loss of productivity was a very good deal (Remember, I am making these numbers up, since I can't remember the report exactly. They are pretty close to the impression I got at the time, though). Those lazy Europeans are actually more productive, per hour, than desperate Americans.

Loooxury!

Sad to hear it. I'm having my five week vacation, and I'm 2,5 weeks in. The company I work for is doing well, I'm one of its managers. We consider living to be important - and it creates very productive workers/colleagues/partners.

In Europe. In the "most productive country in Europe" according to one of the early posts here. There's a lot of stuff we have and do that Americans apparently can only dream about ... Keep working.

Part of the problem is that many American businesses have laid off so many workers that there is little to no redundancy in job functions. For example, if I take a week off, there is no one else who can do my job for me while I am gone. Therefore, if I want to take time off, I can either work 15 hour days ahead of time to make sure all my work is done before I leave, or I can work 15 hour days when I return to make up all my missed work ASAP. Neither option is particularly appealing. Hell, I'm forfeiting vacation time as I sit here typing this.

I wouldn't be so dismissive about whether people really will take less money for fewer hours. I just recently moved to a new city and had several job offers. I chose the one where I'll make $120k for working 50 hours a week and declined the one where I'd make $170k for working 70 hours a week. The reason? She's about a year old, with red hair and blue eyes and a huge smile. Most of those 20 hours would come after 6:00 and on the weekend, and that's her time.

before preceeding any further in this discussion,

please read the latest edition of "the onion".

therin is a report of a profound piece of scocilogy undertakesnby two profs (or was it one prof with two heads)

anyway

the takeaway is:

work is costing u.s. citizens hundreds of trillions of dollars of leisure-time each year.

full-time workers experience the greatest loss it is reported,

with part-timers second.

check it out.

p.s.

can anybody tell me how to spellcheck on this blog?

the program i use, "iespell",

works just fine on most blogs, but it always responds "spell check complete" on this blog (and on "digby") without ever having checked any spelling.

thanks

"I would have preferred a job that paid 10% less but provided 10% more vacation."

An admirable position, but not very smart. Ten percent of two weeks (10 days) is one day. If you make $50,000, that's a loss of $5,000 for one extra day of vacation.

One of the troubles liberals have is that they know so little about the real world.
Posted by: mhr

Coming from a delusional nutjob such as yourself, this is the funniest thing I've read today.

Ezra is wrong, there is something worse than wearing a tie in the sweltering DC summer: wearing pantyhose!

Is it that my job benefits really suck, or is the concept of use it or lose it not as prevelant as I think. If I don't use my two weeks, I lose them. It does make vacation scheduling a much higher priority, work schedule be damned. Has actually forced me to have a life the past couple of years.

egbert said:

If 2 weeks vacation is what the market has deemed most efficient, then who is anyone else to argue with it? Let the market find the sweet spot. If some shiftless goof who doesn't like working wants a job with more weeks of vacation, let him find a job with that. There [sic] out there.

As for me, I love working. Working is what makes America great. When I work, I make myself richer and I make America stronger. Probably why you libs hate work. Eat your heart out, Leftists!

*****

I enjoy working, too, and I have worked hard all my life. I am 57 now and got my first job at 16, working after school to earn money for my senior class ring and prom dress because my widowed mother could not afford these things. With few interruptions, I have worked steadily ever since, even while a full-time student.

I am also a liberal who takes grave exception to your ridiculous over-generalizations, egbert. Please explain to me exactly who "the market" is that has deemed two weeks of vacation "most efficient"? To me, a meager two weeks off is a recipe for burnout and shortchanges the family unit. Although I like my job, I work to live--not the other way around.

After all these decades of working so hard with very little respite, I am exhausted. I do my best to remain as productive as possible, but having so little time to recharge is taking its toll.

In addition, because my company decided to lump sick leave and vacation time into the same time bank last year, I now have to work side-by-side with very sick employees who formerly stayed home, and consequently become sick myself more often. This has a negative impact on everyone's productivity.

How "efficient" is this system, egbert? And why, pray tell, do profits ALWAYS come first with you conservatives, above family, above health, above quality of life, above everything else? When you are on your deathbed, egbert, will you wish you had a few more bucks, or will you wish you'd taken that cruise to Fiji?

Sometimes, vacation ain't no picnic.

This issue has been on my mind lately. I was a good little worker bee until I was laid off in the SF dot com bust in early 02. After the shock wore off and I had some time to unwind, I realized this Calvinist work ethic is crap. The Europeans have it right -- if I could spend the rest of my life working 30 hours and taking 2 or 3 weeks at a time to travel, I'd be a very happy woman. (And based on my experience I can do what most people consider 40 hours of work in 30)

Now, after 5 years there I'm considering going back to a "regular" job for a few compelling reasons. Of course a HUGE downside is giving up my shorter workweek and the opportunity to take extended trips. If I find a job worth considering I will try bargaining for more time off or flexible hours. I'd happily trade money for this -- after all, what's the point of making a lot of money if I can't take time off to use it? But I know they will probably say no, and then what? Can I really go back? I don't know.

A 10% pay cut for 1 more day of vacation (2 weeks of vacation is actually 10 days off)?
I don't think so......

Maternity breaks seem even more amusing. One of my fellow Scots was posted out to Texas (she's a chemical plant manager); about a year or so later she found herself pregnant - fine, no problem, she was entitled to 6 months off and was probably going to take another 3 as a career break. She didn't think anything of it until an American colleague gave birth and promptly reappeared 3 days later - baby in daycare from 8am-6pm. Apparently this was viewed as expected and normal - my friend still fondly remembers her line manager's face when she subsequently told him that she was off on maternity too but wasn't going to be back until halfway through next year.

As for productivity (and no, I'm not talking about macroeconomic measures, I'm referring to individual productivity), I've worked in professional services for 15 years now and Americans simply do what mankind always does - makes the work fit the available space. I work hard (50-70 hours), always make sure I take my 6 weeks holiday and there is simply no way I'm less productive than my average American colleague.

Don't know how you address it but balance of life is one of the few things Americans have just got badly, badly wrong.