North Korea’s belligerence stiffens the South’s spine

North Korea leadership just doesn't appreciate that the South has been providing food aid, and still bites the hand that feeds it.

It was the south that started firing shells along the border, so any attempt to blame the north plays into the hands of the warmongers.

The best ploy for the North is to agree to a complete surrender to and annexation with the south, implemented as soon as all foreign troups leave. Then the south could tell usa to leave, and all would be better off except the various military industrial complexes.

But USA would not leave. They never left Japan either.

So what's the South's brilliant idea? To revenge mercilessly next time the North does something aggressive, hoping then they'd have an actual regional confrontation where they can display their hi tech fighter jets and tanks?

It seems to me the North is not exactly afraid of exchanging a few lives to make a point. Is this what the South really wants? The president gained popularity, what did the average person gain?

The reality is, president Lee's "principle first" approach already closed the door for negotiation long ago. Relationship was bound to deteriorate and the finger pointing/display of power only helped worsen the situation. The North is what it is. Unless you can change it, negotiation is still the most viable option.

SK has been trying to negotiate peacefully with NK for years. But since Kim Jong Il is mentally retarded, negotiation just doesn't work. Maybe it's time to give forceful negotiation a try - the kind where we bring lots of F-22's.

This is actually getting dangerous...tit for tat will only lead to war, eventually SK will ask their allies the US to bomb NK back to the stone age. Can't see US committing any more troops though. Something needs to defuse th situation before it gets out of control. Realistically that is down predominately to NK, possibly China, if they have any leverage to talk sense to Kim.

Hang tough Seoul. Be cool. Don't 'over-retaliate' if provoked. The flabby man is dying and the fat boy won't last long. The DPRK is set to fail in the next few years (a decade at most) as the old guard die off. Mind you, how the North will be stabilised when it does fall is a very big question. China doesn't want 20 million hungry people crossing it's border and Seoul – ditto.

The problem is China is telling the South Koreans to negotiate with the North. It just means giving more money to North Korea. Its fine if China gives more money to North Korea. But it does not, because it does not like to be blackmailed by Kim Jong Il, anymore than the South Koreans do. Its hypocritical for the Chinese to ask the South Koreans to do what they themselves don't like to do.

Romney.Schield@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Dec 9th 2010 10:34 GMT

It was the south that started firing shells along the border, so any attempt to blame the north plays into the hands of the warmongers.

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You are a misinformed fool. South Korea fired those shells into the disputed waters as part of its annual military exercises, against which North Korea has NOT protested against for years. Why did North Korea take issues with it now, and fired 'retaliatory' shots against civilian targets? Ever thought about that?

Stop swallowing Communist propaganda; you are choking on it.

For those who want to learn a bit of US history and wealthy, see Leo Huberman, an US University Professor and writer. Two great books worthwhile reading:

"We The People" [his groundbreaking history of the United States from the perspective of its working people], 1932, and
"Man’s Worldly Goods: The Story of The Wealth of Nations", 1936, a popular political and economic history of capitalism.
Because of his views and the time writen, I suspect these two books may have been proscribed along with the author...
However, not sure if he or his books have been proscribed in the US or elsewhere...

The Korean War was a Strategy of Tension Justifying the Cold War Slaughter of Millions (The Institute for Economic Democracy) AZ
Please, use google to find it out by yourself

else, look at this! Would like to your views on this!
http://www.ied.info/articles/fabricating-incidents-to-start-wars/the-kor...

Why are South Korea and the US not increasing the pressure over North Korea ? Why are the developed wolrd accepting all this childlike provocations by North Korea. We are playing with very dangerous problems here. Ignoring them.

North Korea should receive a strong military response, like a huge sea block to commercial ships, closing airspace, closing all trade with west countries, and force China to make them apologize !!! Even some 2 or 3 tomahawks into their nuclear bomb factories should occur.

USA, you have to get tugh with these people. No one respects you anymore. Everybody thinks you won't react, and Mr Obama is such a nice guy... This will not end in a good way... All American presidents to date have decided to get tough when needed (and not needed as Mr Bush idiot did it), and now we decided to be soft. these North Koreans will take advantage in anything they have, and are growing stronger by the day. America cannot let this happen !

Bu no, we decide to be

Interesting Article About North Korea

Pyongyang’s China syndrome

"By bombarding a civilian territory, North Korea pulled in the U.S., sending a message to Beijing that raising and easing tension in the region is in its hands. China is also criticized by the international community for tolerating or doing too little to contain Pyongyang whenever it makes a reckless move.

Kim Jong-il, then 27, saw his father whip up trouble and tension in the region and work on world powers like the U.S. and Soviet Union. He may be trying to show his twenty-something son and heir the same tricks and how to play the U.S., South Korea and China.

The way North Korea does business worked with the Soviets. Whether it will work with China, we will have to wait and see."

Are the Chinese going to pay up?

I am suddenly recalled a popular Joke in China:

Putin is having a meeting with Hu (of China) and Kim (Of North Korea). They suddenly decided to compare whose bodyguard is more loyal.

So Kim suddenly said lets have a Test, and ask the other two leader to order their bodyguards to jump out a 20 story window.

Putin's bodyguard immediately said: "Sir, are you crazy? I have a wife and two kids at home." Putin immediately realized it was a stupid command and canceled it.

Hu's bodyguard said "Respected comarde, My wife can't take care my in-laws and my parents alone" Hu immediately felt remorseful and asked him to stop.

Suddenly, Kim's bodyguard made a dash for the window, and was only stopped by Putin, who shouted "Are you crazy man?"

Kim's bodybuard replied "Don't stop me, I got a family at home!"

-Archmage, Communist comic

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

US Policy toward Korea and Cuba has been one of hands off, let time take care of it. Well its 60 years later and nothing really has changed. Will it change as the old hard liners die off. How many Koreans and Cubans have suffered over the years due to thier leaders despotic rule?

Let the South Koreans decide what they want to do about thier relatives to the North. Just imagine how much harder it will be to integrate North and South Korea than East and West Germany?

"China doesn't want 20 million hungry people crossing it's border and Seoul – ditto."

This isn't quite accurate. SK has had one eye on reunification for a long time.

Also, China has such a large population, will 20 M really make that much of an impact? To certain locations, yes it would but Beijing doesn't seem to concern themselve's with what they see as "small potatos". China wants the minerals and other resources in NK andI'm sure they don't want US troops right on their border.

My guess is the CCP wants NK as a de facto state with a puppet government. To this end I'm sure they'll be willing to accept a certain amount of NK citizens crossing the border to help win the trust of the larger populace.

On something of a side note: I'm glad Lee is in office right now. He seems to have a supple command of timing, is not lead by his emotions and he's not a whimp.

U.S. ALLIES vs. N KOREA: CHANGE OF STRATEGY- IF NOT NOW, WHEN??

The better-part-of-a-century North Korea vs. the U.S./allies would remind any minimally intelligent person of a wrestling match between two very stupid, intellectually dishonest people:

... both standing, pushing hard against each other... with neither adversary able to- or (psychologically) 'big enough' to- reason that, instead of continuing to 'push' against the other side, a better strategy would be to suddenly reverse- in this case the US/allies- in effect, "give" the N Korean leadership what it plainly wants (and understandably would require) as part of a 'change of relationship' with the U.S./allies:

- a guarantee of status within a North Korea that is at peace with the outside world; along with

- personal security;

- no loss of face for N korea's leadership...

"in return for" sufficient open-handed financial, logistical and other types of aid to N Korea required for it to modernize and repair its decrepit infrastructure, govt institutions and civil service...

A "one country, two systems" approach between the 2 Koreas- similar to (but in-reverse) that of Hong Kong after its handover from the United Kingdom to China in 1997- ought to have been expeditiously explored years ago...

A N Korea that was a part of a unified North and South Korea could, productively, retain a 'titular head of state/head of province' position that would be charged with what would be, in effect, only ceremonial powers...

One possible model:

As part of unified "Federal" state comprised of what are now North and South Korea... N Korea could retain a titular head of state- perhaps similar to the 'Governor General' or 'Lieutenant Governor' head-of-state/head-of-province positions that are widely established within British Commonwealth countries and their provinces...

In this format, such a position could retain the profile of a publically esteemed 'head of state/head of province', while carrying out and limited to only ceremonial functions...

For the above to be made to work, it would be incumbent upon S. Korea, the U.S., U.K., Japan & allies to pump whatever funding & civil resources possible into N. Korea to enable the establishment of a- human rights based- secular, rule-of-law democracy with a briskly functioning responsibly regulated capitalist market system.... and with working energy, transportation, education, health and related infrastructure country-wide...

After nearly 60 years of stalemate between the minnow- HIGHLY IMPOVRISHED North Korea and the Goliath ENORMOUSLY WEALTHY U.S. & allies- during which countless millions of North Koreans have suffered egregiously- and unnecessarily died- wouldn't NOW be appropriate for a change of strategy by the player in this disaster (IE: U.S./allies) possessing the most to give and with- by far- the least to lose??

_________________
Roderick V. Louis
Vancouver, BC, Canada

Just for the record, we Chinese are completely neutral in this brother against brother death hug. We are not going to encourage either side. Nor are we going enable either side. All we can do is just to keep on the charitable giving that appears to be able to keep the hungry Koreans in their own yard.

Good fighting, meanwhile we shall take you business.

JOINT VISION FOR THE ALLIANCE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE REPUBLIC OF KOREA

Washington, D.C. June 16, 2009

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Joint-vision-for-the-alliance...

"The United States of America and the Republic of Korea are building an Alliance to ensure a peaceful, secure and prosperous future for the Korean Peninsula, the Asia-Pacific region, and the world.

Through our Alliance we aim to build a better future for all people on the Korean Peninsula, establishing a durable peace on the Peninsula and leading to peaceful reunification on the principles of free democracy and a market economy.

We will work together to achieve the complete and verifiable elimination of North Korea's nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs, as well as ballistic missile programs, and to promote respect for the fundamental human rights of the North Korean people."

It is sad to see the gap between north and south is becoming wider and wider.
SK president's hard response just proves the failure of his policies to NK. Though he got a short time support by angered SK people, he has no option but harder policies left in hand. Abandoning contact with NK means SK had given up the opportunity to access and influence NK. that is the reason when risk happened SK has no channel to talk with NK.

Everytime when a drill is makde by SK with US, the only result we can see is to push NK people together and try to develop nuclear weapon. the hate is spreading within koreans, the possiblity of reunifying by peace is fainter.

Can SK accept the result of war? But nothing in hand to SK president.

@ Kim77

I stated that the south fired shells along the boarder.
You stated that I was a "misinformed fool", and you stated that actually the south fired shells into disputed waters.
I would like to point out that the disputed waters are along the boarder. That is why they are disputed.
You stated that I should not listen to communist propaganda.
I would like to pount out that my infomration was from the Economist, and that the Economist is not communist propaganda.

As to whether the South could accomodate the Northern exodus, I thing that they could be housed in the empty military buildings.

I read an article that brought up an idea about retaliation through precision air striking against many of KJI and cos luxury mansions and iconic symbols of the regime. It said that such symbols of opulence and inequality could not even be broadcasted to the general population and those who find out would welcome a blow at the regime or at least shatter their brainwashed ideology of the regimes invincibility. Looking for targets against North Korea should avoid military and civilians due to possibilities of escalation and negative PR for future SK citizens. Pyongyang is abound of iconic landmarks for JDAMS.