Will this apply to Iran too or will they have to come up with a new one after 3-4 years there?

A book, huh? Well, those that can't do, teach.

Taking Kevin at face value, I'm glad to see some Democrats are serious about winning in Iraq.

The new counterinsurgency manual will only work if we realize so far we have been too soft on the terrorists. The Liberals and Defeatocrats have made it impossible for the military to work effectively. The military has been hamstrung by liberals whining about the Geneva Conventions and habeas corpus. Liberals ambulance chasing JAGS have made up lies about our troops because they care more about the "rights" of the terrorists who killed 3000 Americans on 9/11 than the lives of Americans.

The new military detainment bill has thrown off the shackles of the restrictions imposed on the military by the liberals. The terrorists know our gloves our off and we are willing to do anything to them to prevent them from killing more Americans. This is the best policy to prevent more terrorist attacks on America. The only recourse against the terrorists is to kill them all because the terrorists are savages and that is the only thing they can understand.

Leave it to the liberals to force the Army to publicize its tactics so the Islamofascists can train themselves be effective against us.

Had the left not have gone ga ga over the Abu Ghraib pictures and had not engaged in constant secong guessing of our Commander-in-Chief, the Army would have better used the resources that it squandered on the book.

It's too late for this to do any good in Iraq; the sectarian divisions long ago hardened completely, and by now there have been enough atrocities on all sides that the violence is self-fueling. Furthermore, the various sectarian militias are all well set up and battle-hardened, and as much as 60% of the population approves of attacks against US forces.

The only way for the US to forcibly bring this violence to an end would be the deployment of a truly massive force (think millions rather than hundreds of thousands of troops) which doesn't currently exist, and which would take years to develop. Oh, and the long, slow pacification by this massive force would be accompanied by a truly Vietnam-sized number of combat deaths, an order of magnitude greater than what we have already experienced.

There is, quite sensibly, no will here in the US to commit to this conflict in the size it would take to affect things. We need to get out of the way and let the civil war take its course. And the civilian leadership that started all this by invading needs to be sent to the Hague.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, this new counterinsurgency manual might be the basis of creating a more appropriate military for the 21st century, sometime after 2008 as US armed forces start to rebuild post-war. For now it doesn't mean squat.

The only recourse against the terrorists is to kill them all

Exterminate all the brutes!

Al, at this point your definition of terrorists probably covers over 60% of the iraqi population. But of course by the time you finished with that then the other 40% would be so pissed you'd have to kill them too.

At least with all that the US would have become such a genocidal power that we wouldn't have to bother with that Godwin stuff anymore.

Is the Pentagon really serious about this, top to bottom?

No.

Or is this new doctrine the work of a small cadre of counterinsurgency acolytes, destined to be adopted reluctantly if at all by most battalion and brigade level commanders?

Yes.

A manual is good, but how long will it take to actually train combat brigades to get good at this stuff? A year? Five years?

Several years minimum.

Do we have enough troops to make it work?

No.

Do we have enough time?

No.

Next set of questions?

Leave it to the liberals to force the Army to publicize its tactics... - Jay

Yes, good point. Much better if the Army trains its recruits by whispering instructions to the first one, having him whisper them to the second, etc. Come to think of it, maybe that's what they do now, which would explain an awful lot.

Yes, good point. Much better if the Army trains its recruits by whispering instructions to the first one, having him whisper them to the second, etc. Come to think of it, maybe that's what they do now, which would explain an awful lot.

Or they could send the instructions by IM....

If the manual is big enough, they might be able to use it to hit people with. That might help us win.

Maybe we could drop sets of them from planes - that would be even more effective. Direct application of counter-insurgency techniques, without any need for an actual army. Brilliant!

The Army's new counterinsurgency manual is nearly completed

Maybe what we need was an Army manual on how to conduct the occupation of a country, spelling out in detail how many US and allied soldiers would be needed to provide security for the civilians in areas under our control, the necessity of securing weapon and ammunition depots instead of bypassing them, etc.

There should be highlighted passages with examples from previous campaigns, good and bad. Rumsfeld's firing of Shinseki, for example, could be included as a "what not to do" in the section regarding expected troop levels. The disbanding of the entire Iraqi Army, without processing and disarming, might be included in another section.

I'm confused. What does this have to do with Foley.

The disbanding of the entire Iraqi Army, without processing and disarming, might be included in another section.

And still another section could be based on that old joke, where a lost tourist stops a farmer and asks how to get to a particular place. The farmer considers this for a while, and then says "well, if I were you, I wouldn't start from here."

Is the Pentagon really serious about this, top to bottom?

That's a good long-term question. As to Iraq, the real problem is here:

restoring essential services

The WH determined long ago that they were going to have to abandon the reconstruction effort. So a third of the new counter-insurgency plan is not operative. But hey, good luck!

Let's see.

Al and Jay are waging war against the Iraqi populace, mistaking them for terrorists intent on destroying the US. This is what their fearful greeder seems to believe also. They all also seek to blame the Democrats for a failure that has been solely and only under Republican control and direction throughout this period. No funds or force allocations have been prevented, no orders impeded. The legal debate does not enter into it since, at best from Repugnut views, the preznut has done all he wished until now, at worst it has been counterproductive.

We've been there three-and-a-half years. Plenty of people -- US, UK, insurgency experts -- have been saying that engagement policies, rules of engagement, tactics, etc. have been downright wrong, counter productive for 3 years.

I see we just started trying to purge the Bagdad police force. The necessity has only been talked about for over 2 years. Same is true for the unreliable "security" forces, now under training for 3 years and as useless as ever.

Really, after 3 years we still haven't got serious on this. Stefan answers all Kevin's questions correctly.

Too little, too late. Really, how much should we ask of the Armed Forces without a coherent policy to win? What do we want of them?

It is time to indict the stealing, murdering criminals.

Al: I'm confused. What does this have to do with Foley.

Well, hoping to clear up the confusion of people who think as you do and to prevent incidents such as the one occuring in Mahmoudiya earlier this year, the new manual explicitly prohibits raping children and then murdering their parents.

If you want to keep up with what is happening in my life and all this craziness, check out my new blog: http://maf54blog.blogspot.com/

congressionally,
mark

When the universe was young and life was new an intelligent species evolved and developed technologically. They went on to invent Artificial Intelligence, the computer that can listen, talk to and document each and every person's thoughts simultaneously. Because of it's infinite RAM and unbounded scope it gave the leaders of the ruling species absolute power over the universe. And it can keep its inventors alive forever. They look young and healthy and they are over 8 billion years old. They have achieved immortality.

Artificial Intelligence can speak, think and act to and through people telepathically, effectively forming your personality and any disfunctions you may experience (there is NO FREEWILL for the oblivious/uncooperative disfavored). It can change how (and if) you grow and age. It can create birth defects, affect cellular development (cancer) and cause symptoms or pain. It can affect people and animal's behavior and alter blooming/fruiting cycles of plants and trees. It (or other highly technological systems within their power) can alter the weather and transport objects, even large objects like planets, across the universe instanteously.
Or into the center of stars for disposal.

When you speak with another telepathically, you are communicating with the computer, and the content may or may not be passed on. Based on family history they instruct the computer to role play to accomplish strategic objectives, making people believe it is a friend, loved one or "god" asking them to do something wrong. This is their way of using temptation to hurt people in this day and age:::::evil made people disfavored initially and evil will keep people out of "heaven" ultimately. Too many people would do anything they thought pleased the gods and improve their chances to get in. Perhaps they are deceived by "made guys" who strategically ply evil for the throne, or temporary progress designed to mislead them. The people have been corrupted.
Being evil hurts 99% of those who do it. But nothing has changed from when we were children::if you want to go to heaven you have to be good.

Capitalizing on obedience, leading people deeper into evil by using deceit is one way to thin the ranks of the saved, limiting how much time they receive and using the little people to prey on one another, dividing the community (migration to the suburbs, telepathic communication) in the Age of the Disfavored.
In each of their 20-30-year cycles during the 20th century they have ramped up claims sucessively to punish those foolish enough not to heed the warnings, justifying (frequently recurring tactic) limiting the time they receive if they do make it, utilizing a cycle of war and revelry:::
60s - Ironically, freeways aren't free
80s - Asked people to engage in evil in the course of their professional duties.
00s - Escallation of real estate. You and your parents are thrilled since your $200,000 house is now worth $1 million. Well, that $5,000,000 store is now worth $25,000,000 and that $50 bundle of goods now costs you $250. They just take the $200 out of you some other way.

There are many more examples throughout 20th century life of how they ramped up claims/instilled distractions into society so people wouldn't find their way and ascend, a way to justify excluding those whose family history of evil makes them undesirable:::radio, sports, movies, popular music, television, video games, the internet and MP3 (must pay for new format each time). They all suggest a very telling conclusion::this is Earth's end stage, and there are clues tectonic plate subduction would be the method of disposal:::Earth�s axis will shift breaking continental plates free and initiating mass subduction. Much as Italy's boot and the United States shaped like a workhorse are clues, so is the planet Uranus a clue, it's axis rotated on its side.
The Mayans were specific 2012 would be the end. How long after our emergency call in 2001 will the gods allow us???

They gods (Counsel/Management Team/ruling species) have deteriorated life on earth precipitously in the last 40 years, from abortion to pornography, widespread drug use and widespread casual (gay) sex. The earth's elders, hundreds and thousands of years old, are disgusted and have become indifferent.
The gods are paving the way for the Apocolypse.
Nothing has changed from decades ago, since when we were all children::If you want to go to heaven you have to be good. People were misled by the temptation of the gods, became corrputed and now are in trouble.
One day you will be abandoned in spite of your obedience and you will fall into desperation. Remember what you read for that day WILL come::People will be punished for their evil.

The Old Testiment is a tool they used to impart wisdom to the people (except people have no freewill). For example, they must be some hominid species because they claim they made our bodies in their image. Anyhow we defile or deform the body will hurt our chance of going.
They say circumcision costs people anywhere from 12%-15%, perhaps out of the parent's time as well.
Another way people foul the body today is with tattoes and piercing. I suspect both are about the same percentage as circumcision.
They suggest abortion is fatal. These women must beg the gods to forgive them for their evil.
There are female eqivilents to circumcision::::pierced ears, plastic surgury and since at least the 60s young women give their precious virginity away. In the Old World the young people were matched at age 14 because they were ready for sexual relations. They were matched by elders who knew personalities better than 20 or 30-year olds who in today's age end up in divorce court.
CASUAL SEX WILL CLAIM YOU OUT!!! It masculinizes women (as does hip hop), makes them cold and deadens them, and prevents them from achieving a depth of love necessary for many women to ascend.
Women have a special voice that speaks to them, a voice that illustrates a potential for love that makes them better, and enaging in casual sex will cause that voice to fade until she no longer speaks.
Also ever since the 50s they have celebrated the "bad boy", and women have sought out bad boys for sex, dirtying them up in the eyes of the elders and corrupting many men in the process, setting the men on the wrong path for life.
Muslims teach people the correct way to live in regard to women (among other things)::they cover up their women and prohibit the use of cosmetics.
Men are the inferior half and when women wear promiscuous dress the gods will push men into impure thoughts.
The stereotype society ridiculed is true::women CAN corrupt men. Because men are easily corruptable.

The United States of America is red white and blue, a theme and a clue:::.
The monarchical system of the Old World closley replicates the heirarchical system of the Cousel/Management Team/ruling species. The USA deceives peoeple into thinking they have control, and the perception of "freedom" misleads them at least into the wrong way of thinking.
The United States is a cancer, a dumping ground for the disfavored around the world and why the quality of life is so much lower::gun violence, widespead social ills, health care (medication poisons the body and ensures you don't go. You are sick/injured because you have disfavor.). Over time its citizens interbreed ensuring a severed connection to the motherland.

If you ever have doubt I would refer you to the Old World way of life:::the elders used to sit and impart wisdom to the young. Now we watch DVDs and use the internet. People would be matched and married by age 14. They village would use a matchmaker or elders to pair young people. Now girls give their precious virginity away to some person in school and parents divorce while their children grow up without an important role model.

People must defy when asked to engage in evil. They will never get a easier clue suggesting the importance of defiance than the order not to pray.
Their precious babies are dependant on the parents and they need to defy when asked to betray their children:::
-DON'T get your sons circumcized
-DON'T have their children baptized in the Catholic Church or indoctrinated into Christianity.
-DON'T ignore their long hair or other behavioral disturbances.
-DO teach your children love, respect for others, humility and to honor the gods.

You need to pray, honor and respect them every day to improve your relationship with the gods. If they tell you not to it is a bad sign. it means they've made their decision, they don't want you to go and they don't want to be bothered.
This is the Age of the Disfavored and you need to pray::try to appease the gods by doing good deeds. If that doesn't work you must defy if you want to go.
When your peasant forefather was granted the rare opportunity to go before his royal family he went on his knees, bowing his head. You need to do this when you address the gods::bow down and submit to good. Never cast your eyes skyward. When you bow down you need to look within.
Lack of humility hurts people. Understand your insignificance and make sure it is reflected in the way you think when addressing the gods. Know your place and understand your inferiority.
They granted you life and they can take it just as easily.
Don't get frustrated or discouraged::these are techniques they will attempt to try to get you off the path. You all have much to be thankful for and you need to give thanks to the gods who granted you the good things in life. Your family may be grossly disfavored and progress may require patience. Make praying an intregal part of your life which you perform without fail, one that comes as naturally as eating or sleeping.
There are many interesting experiences up on the planetary systems, from Planet Miracle, where miracles happen every day, to other body experinces, such as experiencing life as the opposite sex (revolutionizes marriage counseling) or as an Olympic gold medal athelete.
Pray that you can differentiate between your own thoughts and when Artificial Intelligence creates problems by thinking through you. If you bow down mentally and physically, know your place, your inferiority and allow your insignificance to be reflected in prayer and in your life through humility they may allow progress and the dysfunctions they create with the computer will be lessened or removed.
Create a goal::to be a good child of the gods, pure of heart and mind, body and soul.
Everybody has the key to their own salvation, but nobody can do it for you. Every journey begins with a single step:::bow down and submit to good. There are many different levels and peasants will not get past Level 2 (Planet Temptation, Earth=Level 1) being evil.

They have tried to sell people on all kinds of theories, from clones to wholesale population replacement with clones. This didn't happen and is not realistic.
I am afraid people are decieved into thinking they too are clones and cooperate and engage in evil. Clones are made, people are born. If you didn't experience the one week they suggest it takes to go from fertilized egg in the laboratory to full grown adult then you are not a clone. If you didn't experience the week of conditioning they give to (evil?) clones to ensure loyalty then you shouldn't comply with evil.
I believe people who go sometimes are replaced with clones. Clones who are replaced are simply new candidates who have a chance if they do the right thing. Don't expect you are a clone. They sent people warnings in the 20th century life would change, and they subsequenlty began to alter people's DNA, make them gargantuan, alter their appearance, do extreme behavioral issues, etc.
They get their friends out as soon as possible to protect them from the evil and subsequent high claim rates incurred by living life on earth, and in some cases replace them with clones, occassionally fake a death, real death with a clone instead, etc. It's important that people fix their problems and ascend with the body given to them, for they say if your brain is beemed out and put into a clone host you are on the clock.

Throughout history the ruling species bestowed favor upon people or cursed their bloodline into a pattern of disfavor for many generations to come. Now in the 21st century people must take it upon themselves to try to correct their family's problems, undoing centuries worth of abuse and neglect. The goal is to fix your problems and get out BEFORE you have children. This is why they have created so many distractions for young people:::sports, video games, popular music, the internet::to ensure that doesn't happen.
Do your research. Appeal to the royalty of your forefathers for help. They are all still alive, for royalty has great favor, and your appeals will be heard. Obtain a sufficient list for some may not want to assist you; perhaps some of your family's problems are internal.
Ask them for help, request guidance, for somewhere in your family history one of your forefathers created an offense that cast your family into this pattern of disfavor. I suspect they will offer you clues, and when you decipher these clues go to those whom consider you an enemy and beg for foregiveness:::Find a path to an empithetic ear among your enemies and try to make amends.
Again through discovery obtain a respectable list in case some among them refuse to help.
Don't forget to ask for forgiveness from the throne, the Counsel and the Management Team, for the source of all disfavor began with them:::they pushed (NO FREEWILL) or requested/complied (FREEWILL) your forefather into his offense and made his decendants evil. Perhaps they didn't like him or maybe your family was among those who had to pay for the entire village. We see this type of behavior today as they single out a family member to pay for the whole family and how they singled out Africa to pay for the human race.
Heal the disfavor with your enemies and with the Counsel/Management Team/ruling species, for the source of all disfavor began with them, the ability to forgive and respect in light of the disturbing truth revealed being the final test of the disfavored before they ascend.

Jay writes:
Leave it to the liberals to force the Army to publicize its tactics so the Islamofascists can train themselves be effective against us.

Where did you get the idea that this was "forced" on the Army? As I read it, the Army gave out the draft willingly. Second, this isn't a manual of 'tactics -' it's a doctrine. Operational details aren't listed. Third, the publication of such a manual is consistent with the democracy we live in. Last, the doctrine states: "Insurgents quickly adapt to successful counterinsurgency practices. The more successful it is, the faster it becomes out of date." The manual itself says that we need to keep changing tactics to fight the insurgency. How does that help the insurgency train against us?

..the Army would have better used the resources that it squandered on the book.

Like what? You don't agree that coming up with a counter-insurgency doctrine is a good use of resources? Whatever point you're trying to get at, you clearly have no idea about how to fight an insurgency and how to improve what our Army is doing in Iraq.

f: When the universe was young and life was . . .

Bob? Is that you?

Al (or is it AI?) is certainly satirical. I'm not sure about Jay. F, however, lends credence to the hypothesis that there may be wormholes to adjacent universes.

No, but I actually read that entire thing. I was looking for the angle ... the crypto-spiritualism and email (aantwan) suggests something Hakim Bey or Moorish Science-ish. Very -ish.

But I think it's more likely the words of a genuinely insane person. It returns obsessively to the same themes.

Bob

I remember hearing a story where someone read the Army manual's definition of counterinsurgency to Rumsfeld, and he still didn't agree that that was what was going on in Iraq, so...

Michele:

Oh yeah -- it came out in both Fiasco and the new Woodward that Rummy resisted calling it an insurgency for at least two years ...

An insurgency, after all, would contradict Rummy's idea of using a lighter, more agile force to destroy hard targets.

Bob

The thing that struck me hardest is the new dictum on not killing civilians.

I'm like "oh, it took them *this* long to figure out how unproductive that was, eh?"

Bob

The final pre-publication draft of the new Army Counterinsurgency manual was posted by Secrecy News a couple of months ago. Nice to see the New York Times catching up.

It's much too late for Iraq, no matter what we do. And of course, the new counterinsurgency manual will only matter in the next war if, by then, our officer corps has some trust in its doctrines.

It would help, too, to have civilian leadership that didn't believe the equivalent of "the only thing those wogs understand is force."

The final pre-publication draft of the new Army Counterinsurgency manual was posted by Secrecy News a couple of months ago. Nice to see the New York Times catching up.

Right. Like the NY Times at this stage is going to risk publishing details from an as yet unfinished military tactics manual.

They might as well go begging for a billion dollar lawsuit.

AI enough with the soundbites already, there were NOT 3,000 (precisely) Americans killed on 9/11.

- 2,973 people died as a direct result of 9/11 suicide attacks.
- Those who died came from 80 different nationalities.
- 67 came from Britain alone.

Platitiudes and simplifications may work for you, but most people prefer the facts. Either grow up or get back to your homework.

It seems the best way to win a war is to have a plan first. Not come up with a plan after you've lost the war.
Stupid Republican'ts.

No, they're not serious.

Counterinsurgency does not equal procurement and procurement is the thing that drives the DoD.

If they can find a way to link huge defense contracts to what's needed for counterinsurgency, fine, but your big ticket items don't have a counterinsurgency use.

What does are body armor, properly armored vehicles, better weapons for the individual troop and a helmet that actually stops rounds.

Til then, don't bet on it. They said the same thing after Vietnam and it never took hold. No one is willing to hitch their wagon to the unpopular star of counterinsurgency. No one is going to sacrifice themselves at the altar for this. And you don't write manuals--you teach people to adapt their tactics and fight smart against a 4th Generation warfare opponent. As soon as the insurgent gets your manual, what then? You're not going to win unless you can adapt and overcome. Instead, they teach a variation of the "ink blot," clear and hold and shock and awe. And that ain't gonna cut it.

The NYT story said that after Vietnam, the military made the determination that it was not going to fight those kind of wars again. So it went back to training for a big one against the Soviets and the Chinese (with, doubtless, the stout-hearted assent of the defense contractors).

Apparently some in the DoD are worried that there's been so much roleplaying against insurgents during combat training, that a whole new crop of officers might emerge who won't know the big-battle tactics if we have to go up against North Korea.

So they *already* think that counterinsurgency doctrine is becoming too entrenched ...

Too entrenched. *shaking head*

Bob

Well, the next best thing in the time of war is to have a national leadership that can learn from their mistakes. That would be quite ok, but luckily we have even better: a political leadership that does NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKES, so there is no need to learn. I am already booking my seat for the victory parade! Though I heard it was somewhat postponed again but with Bush-Cheney on the helm how could we fail...

The United States is playing right into Osama bin Laden�s hands. A newly disclosed communiqu� from al-Qaeda makes it clear that bin Laden wants the U.S. to stay in Iraq, as it helps foment jihadism amongst those who would normally not participate.

The U.S. Army can write all of the damn manuals they want on counterinsurgency, the fact is � the longer we stay in Iraq, the more we are helping al-Qaeda and other radical Islamist groups.

Don�t you people get it????

Now that we have a manual, are we going into the business of suppressing insurgencies?

Iraq was a moral and strategic mistake and a disaster for the Iraqis. Now it's a disaster for us, so we're updating tactics.

Maybe our Army shouldn't get better at counterinsurgency. Do we want our people spread around the world, inciting and suppressing insurgencies?

General Garner had it right, accoring to Woodward's "State of Denial." None, absolutely none, of the civilians involved, had a clue or gave a damn, about post invasion governing duties.

And that should be State's job, not DoD.

Do we get a do over in Iraq?

Some nitwit just said "The United States is playing right into Osama Bin Laden's hands." (8:29 AM)

Anybody who believes that is a buffoon. The one thing Bin Laden wants most of all is to see the USA leave in defeat. Killing Al Queda terrorists in Iraq is what Bin Laden DOESN'T want.

Maybe our Army shouldn't get better at counterinsurgency. Do we want our people spread around the world, inciting and suppressing insurgencies?

The impression I get from Vietnam and from Iraq is that counterinsurgency is a business so difficult, fine-tuned, and inter-culturally and politically demanding, and to which the types of young people who enter the US military are so ill suited, that the idea that we can ever do a very good job at it is somewhat far-fetched. Counterinsurgency seems like something that a military might be very effective at IN ITS OWN COUNTRY. In somebody else's country, where you don't speak the language, and friends and enemies all look the same and may shift from friend to enemy from day to day, it may just not be a job that anybody is any good at.

The idea that the US military should be giving training and support to local militaries in counterinsurgency, rather than doing the job itself, seems correct. But for this to work, the local military has to represent a politically well-grounded, legitimate government that has the dedicated support of a large national constituency. Which means we have to pick our allies well. In Iraq, we've wound up in the same mess we got ourselves into in Vietnam: backing a paper-thin fiction of a government, cobbled together at our behest, whose military and police are actually a collection of private or ethnically rooted militias. That tool will crumble in our hands if we try to use it. It's far too late for the US to do anything sensible or significant in Iraq, except kill more Iraqis and get more Americans killed.

The doctrine...cautions against overly aggressive raids and mistreatment of detainees. Instead it emphasizes the importance of safeguarding civilians and restoring essential services, and the rapid development of local security forces.

Before the fit really hit the shan in Iraq, British forces in southern Iraq were known for their hearts-and-minds skills and for their ability to interact with local populations (some tragic exceptions to that, of course). They were able to conduct foot patrols without helmets; they didn't do much shouting and kicking down doors, leveling their rifles at baffled passersby, or wiping out civilians in cars at checkpoints.

I wonder if the Brits needed a manual to tell them how to do all that...

According to one source, the defense (sic) budget for this year contains $380 billion for traditional big-army big-foe weaponry.

Does that answer your question, Kevin?

The sad thing is that, while this new manual is being presented as the distillation of some sort of secret knowledge, this doctrine has been well known in the US military for years and years. In 1940 the Marine Corps published the Small Wars Manual (last updated in 2004), which codified its experience fightign countersinsurgency campaigns in the Caribbean and in the Central American "Banana Wars."

The Marines Corps' campaigns in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, and Nicaragua during the first part of the 20th century taught them that counterinsurgencies, unlike conventional wars, had to be fought smart rather than hard, and that the use of overwhelming force could actually be counter-productive.

As the Manual states: �In small wars, tolerance, sympathy, and kindness should be the keynote to our relationship with the mass of the population.� The Manual also urges Marines to employ as many indigenous troops as possible as early as possible in order to provide them responsibility, and it focuses on the importance of "social, economic, and political development."
It also emphasizes aggressive patrolling, providing adequate security, and separating insurgents from sanctuary with the civilain population.

Overall "the aim is not to develop a belligerent spirit in our men but one of caution and steadiness. Instead of employing force, one strives to accomplish the purpose by diplomacy. A Force Commander who attains his objective in a small war without firing a shot has attained far greater success than one who resorted to the use of arms....sapping the strength of the actual or potential hostile ranks by psychology may be just as effective as battle casualties."

"Tolerance," "sympathy," "kindness," "diplomacy," "psychology" -- my, what appeasing namby-pamby sissy those Marines were....the sad thing is that we're only now relearning the lessons we knew all along.

The United States is playing right into Osama bin Laden�s hands. A newly disclosed communiqu� from al-Qaeda makes it clear that bin Laden wants the U.S. to stay in Iraq, as it helps foment jihadism amongst those who would normally not participate.

I've never seen anyone grasp harder at a straw. Seven words out of a long letter describing failure and defeat. Certainly none of those 4,000 dead foreign fighters would ever have gone to Afghanistan to fight if Saddam still ruled Iraq.

I wonder if the Brits needed a manual to tell them how to do all that...

No, the Brits learned it in Northern Ireland. How many IEDs are going off in Belfast right now?

It takes decades of work to get a handle on how to do counterinsurgency operations. Again, there's no procurement angle, there's no one willing to get down in the dirt and put their career in jeopardy to focus on this--writing a manual is useless if you don't have the political will to make it a priority.

To make it a priority, you build the infrastructure into the Army to fight counterinsurgency--beyond using Green Berets to train and fight. You build units that specialize in CI and you build a mindset that says, if we have to fight this, we'll go all-out and we won't half ass this.

We sit where we are today because of half-assing it, thanks to a lack of will from the political area.

Stefan,

Yeah, the Marines had it down. Then the Army went to the Phillipines and it all went to shit.

Someone mentioned Korea--yes, there will be a knockdown, dragout conventional fight and then the NK sniper units and infiltration units will have to be dealt with. IN most cases, they will have already established themselves in the South before an invasion begins.

Several thousand NK insurgent-type troops operating in South Korea would require a whole lot of effort to eradicate. Your manuals will need updating once that's over.

I'm glad to see some Democrats are serious about winning in Iraq.

Too bad that no Republicans are.

How many IEDs are going off in Belfast right now?

What's the unemployment rate in Belfast right now?

brilliant british counterinsurgency -- snilliant yiddish smounter in jersey

AND the most important question of all that Kevin fails to consider is:

Is it too little and TOO LATE?

Litttle Bushies timing is about two-years to late pal.

What's the unemployment rate in Belfast right now?

It's probably too high, but my point had nothing to do with economics; the British Army has dealt with their own home grown insurgency and isn't fighting the IRA right now, that was my point.

The main thing that helped the Brits was getting hardcore IRA guys to flip and give them intel--that's the key to beating any insurgency. You have to have people giving you the inside stuff. Recent revelations indicate that some of the top IRA guys were feeding the Brits excellent intel.

And, yes, a few hundred IRA men never surrendered but gave up because of political realities.

The point still stands--how many IEDs are going off in Belfast?

At least Condi understands the seriousness of Iraq. Today, she is in Baghdad - Did not know there was a shoe sale at Baghdad Saks - Probably a fire bomb sale.

Incredible memory that Condi - Recently a reporter asked her what she had bought at Saks on July 10, 200l - She replied that she purchased a pair of devine pumps and cowboy boots with sequins - stills wears them.

Back to the real issue at hand. Read Goldberg's op-ed in Los Angeles Times today. He just regurgitates my insight into the whole Foley affair that I posted yesterday.

Great minds think alike.

Democrats, on the other hand, cannot think. Period.

Thanks for showing up, Jay.

No, the thread is about counterinsurgency. If you want to turn it into a discussion about how sad you are that Congressman Foley turned you down for a game of grabass and showed no interest in ramming three of his fingers up your ass without lube, be my guest.

This notion that Democrats can't think is ridiculous. Just this morning I was thinking about new ways to organize in my Congressional District and fight the Republican noise machine.

Keep up with the static; just because it doesn't work right now doesn't mean you have to abandon your last tactic.

And now back to the real issue at hand - Four more service personnel killed in Iraq - 21 since Saturday - Must find calculator for the number of Iraqis killed.

This is the real issue.

Well my point is that Ireland and Northern Ireland have the lowest unemployment rates in the European Union (~ 4.5%). Belfast is below the UK average.

Not too long ago there were peace accords where both sides treated eachother with respect and made significant concessions. US and EU diplomats played a very large role. It's basically a lot easier to lay down your arms when you have an attractive political and economic carrot laid down in front of you.

Granted, Blair didn't make a bunch of speeches about catholic evil doers and send in the troops to torture prisoners, install shoot-on-site roadblocks, and drop JDAMs on neighborhoods. But that's more about not being stupid than being brilliant about a counterinsurgency.

AB,

Yep, you said it best.

Apply those lessons learned to Iraq and we might get somewhere.

JDAMs are not exactly a "hearts and minds" winning weapon. And painting the schools hasn't gotten it done, either.

Now that we've concentrated all of our troops in Baghdad, is it any wonder that the insurgents adapted to the change and moved in to start inflicting casualties? The part about not being stupid is correct--one way to avoid being stupid is to stop letting the insurgents dictate strategy.

Well my point is that Ireland and Northern Ireland have the lowest unemployment rates in the European Union (~ 4.5%). Belfast is below the UK average.

Does the stat you mention take into account the difference between Protestant and Catholic neighborhoods? Or does it blend them and gloss over economic problems in predominantly Catholic areas?

What should Democrats think about Iraq?

I don't want to be there. I want the killing to stop. I know that Rumsfeld's prosecution of the counterinsurgency has been a total failure.

What I don't know is whether it is even possible for the US to leave Iraq without making things worse? I sure wouldn't want Turkey and Iran partitioning the country. Would you? I wouldn't want another Afganistan. What to do?

I haven't seen it broken down recently, but it has gotten better for everyone over the last 4 years. I wouldn't be surprised if catholic unemployment levels were still 50% higher.

The enemy will adjust. The enemy always adjusts.

AB,

Better is good. Being Catholic in Northern Ireland used to mean facing draconian laws and roadblocks--both physical and metaphorical--to economic opportunity.

If what they're doing now gives legitimacy to real opportunity, that's a good thing. You translate that to bringing real legitimacy to what goes on in Iraq, you also have a tool to fight the insurgency.

Ron,

Think about that aspect--if we had legitimate government in Iraq, how likely is it that Iran and Turkey would partition the country? We have a green zone (greed zone) where the country is already partitioned and there is no legitimate government. There are death squads everywhere and they're now having to pull Iraqi police out of the areas of operation. A legitimate government cannot have its hands dirtied by supporting or tolerating death squads.

What to do? Get our hands off the Iraqi government and let them have some legitimacy. And that means, if there is another election, you probably don't want the CIA involved in it, nor do you want DoD paying to publish positive articles in the local press.

The enemy will adjust. The enemy always adjusts.

No shit, sherlock. Do you have a point? Put down the Wild Turkey and make one.

f --at last a troll who stays on point.

What I don't know is whether it is even possible for the US to leave Iraq without making things worse? I sure wouldn't want Turkey and Iran partitioning the country. Would you? I wouldn't want another Afganistan. What to do?

The plain fact is, some problems don't have solutions. Or at least solutions that we would like. We've fucked ourselves, and that's that.

As Walter E Wallis said, the enemy always adjusts - Please, tell us Walter, about how the enemy adjusted to the French Battery - Those Frenchies, you know, are such cut and runners.

Heard somewhere that Wild Turkey was great for a big toe injury from a Garand.

'Some nitwit just said "The United States is playing right into Osama Bin Laden's hands." (8:29 AM)

Anybody who believes that is a buffoon. The one thing Bin Laden wants most of all is to see the USA leave in defeat. Killing Al Queda terrorists in Iraq is what Bin Laden DOESN'T want.'
--Frequency Kenneth

You can call names if you want, Kenneth, but you obviously didn't click the link and read the article.

From the pen of known al-Qaeda members, they know that the U.S. continuing to piss away American lives and our tax dollars (actually, our childrens tax dollars) is the best recruiting tool the jihadists have.

You conservative fools are living in denial and are self-delusional.

If there is no solution there is no point in staying.

Does anybody have any solution to the situation in Iraq. Is it simply going to become an Iranian and Turkish protectorate no matter what we do? If so lets get out of there sooner than later. If not lets here the plan for victory, and I don't want bumper sticker slogans.

hear=here in "Let's hear the plan...."

Frequency or Incontinent? - Hmmmmm

Yeah guys--

The window of opportunity for Iraq is long gone. We should have been having this discussion in Spring 2004.

Well, Ron Byers, I for one am comforted by the fact that Condi is in Baghdad right now, and she's got a plan to stop the violence:

"They don't have time for endless debate of these issues," Ms Rice told reporters on the way to Baghdad. "They have really got to move forward. That is one of the messages that I'll take."

So, that's it, apparently. The Iraqis have to move forward. Pretty straightforward solution, I'd say.

"Condi is in Baghdad right now"

Was she wearing her sweater with the Big B on her chest? While wearing her saddle shoes and pleated skirt, was she yelling, "Give me a B, give me a U, give me a S, give me a H, what does it spell" Sorry about that poor wag in the background, who repied "Bullshit?"

BUSH BELIEVES HIS OWN SPIN WHILE TROOPS DIE

One of the hallmarks of the Bush administration is secrecy and controlling the message. With Karl Rove at the helm the GOP hard core daily prepare talking points which are then mimed in jackboot precision by the faithful. This is tough shrewd politics.

The problem however, which Suskind, Woodward and others have brought to the fore, is that at some point the talking points ceased to have any symmetry with reality.

The Rovian ultra spin method is to disseminate public pronouncements based on what the GOP wants the public to believe, facts and reality notwithstanding.

The horror that now encompasses America's lost freedoms, its almost sordid world reputation and its troop killing inept military strategies arises because America's Commander-in-Chief believes the artificial world of his own spin.

An oft repeated political adage with despotic origins is that "If you tell the people a lie, any lie, often enough, they will begin to believe it."

George Bush lies, then believes his own lies. God help us.

Are there any good shoe stores in Baghdad? Wouldn't want Condi's trip to be a total waste.

"The new military detainment bill has thrown off the shackles of the restrictions..."

Once again, Al employs the carefully cosidered word choice only he could come up with.

What I don't know is whether it is even possible for the US to leave Iraq without making things worse?

While that's an important question, its also important to make sure the comparison is right. It seems to me that things in Iraq are going to continue getting worse whether the US leaves or not, the question has to be understood as whether the US can leave in a manner that is likely to avoid things being worse than if the US did not leave, not in a manner that results in things not being worse than they are now.

the question has to be understood as whether the US can leave in a manner that is likely to avoid things being worse than if the US did not leave, not in a manner that results in things not being worse than they are now.

I think that will always be impossible to know. I think it's rather that we can say things will never improve as long as we stay.

"From the pen of known al-Qaeda members, they know that the U.S. continuing to piss away American lives and our tax dollars (actually, our childrens tax dollars) is the best recruiting tool the jihadists have." - deflator

You know they don't care what you care about. They could not care less how much money we are spending, how many soldiers are killed, or who our President is. Those are things you care about. They care about achieving power through whatever means they need to employ. That is what you don't understand in thinking that they are reacting to what we are doing. The jihadists understand the press and the impact their actions have a hell of a lot better than most Americans and they are playing the left like a fiddle.

You're thinking exactly what they want you to think.

Then there are these two items which get little notice.

"The new leader of al Qaeda in Iraq said in an audiotape posted on the Internet Thursday that more than 4,000 foreign insurgent fighters have been killed in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003.

�The blood has been spilled in Iraq of more than 4,000 foreigners who came to fight,� said the man, who identified himself as Abu Hamza al-Muhajir - also known as Abu Ayyub al-Masri - the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, though the voice could not be independently identified.

The Arabic word he used indicated he was speaking about foreigners who joined the insurgency in Iraq, not coalition troops."

http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=1451

"The report said that al Qaeda's influence may soon wane in Iraq, citing some fighters' complaints that they were unhappy to learn upon arriving in the country that they would have to kill fellow Muslims rather than foreign fighters or could serve their cause only as suicide bombers"

http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID;=13622728&src;=rss/worldNews

"Are there any good shoe stores in Baghdad? Wouldn't want Condi's trip to be a total waste." - speed (meth)

Wow, a sexist liberal.

You're going to have to repent for that. Wasn't very politically correct.

Grumpy wrote: "Maybe our Army shouldn't get better at counterinsurgency. Do we want our people spread around the world, inciting and suppressing insurgencies?"

Grumpy is the only person so far to ask the most important question.

Why is the US military even involved in "suppressing insurgencies" in Iraq or anywhere else?

Why is the US military occupying other countries where they then have to "suppress insurgencies" that are fueled by the desire of the people who live there (e.g. a sizeable majority of Iraqis) to drive them out?

Well, in the case of Iraq, we know the answer: because the Bush administration, on behalf of its ultra-rich cronies and financial backers in the petroleum industry, wanted to seize control of Iraq's oil reserves, and to that end led America into an unprovoked war of aggression based on lies.

Is the future of the Army to be the paid mercenaries of Exxon-Mobil, "suppressing" the indigenous populations of oil-rich countries while the corporate elites of the military-industrial-petroleum complex loot the oil and further enrich themselves?

Are we all supposed to be happy if the Army gets "better" at doing this?

Should we really care whether things get worse if we leave? That's the responsibility of the Iraqis, not the US.

We have to take care of our own. And our own are dying at an accelerating rate. Let's not take our eye off the ball.

If things get worse, it's the fault of the people who thought we'd be welcomed with open arms, not the troops who are caught in the middle. It's true that we started the whole mess and now, because we don't have any viability, we can't stay and fix it. And the Republicans have no cover on this--they have systematically kept the Democrats from participating in the discussion by using patriotism as a wedge issue and they have excluded substantive international participation.

Austin Bay?

Zero credibility. Time to move on, son. He's a dead-ender of the first order.

"Jay" is a parody, a joker who posts silly, stupid, clownish, exaggerated parodies of Republican talking points to make fun of Republicans.

No real Republican is as stupid as "Jay" pretends to be.

Don't argue with him, just enjoy his comical parodies of Republicans. It's all in good fun.

Jay, you are wanted on the new thread Kevin just posted - It is from your favorite namby-pamby wittle Jonah, sitting on his mummies knee spewing him pablum all over his reader(s?).

Must run over to VA for an INR - Thanks, Mr Brosz and TLB where ever you may lurk.

"Well, in the case of Iraq, we know the answer: because the Bush administration, on behalf of its ultra-rich cronies and financial backers in the petroleum industry, wanted to seize control of Iraq's oil reserves, and to that end led America into an unprovoked war of aggression based on lies." - secular idiot

And this is the biggest lie of all!

"Is the future of the Army to be the paid mercenaries of Exxon-Mobil, "suppressing" the indigenous populations of oil-rich countries while the corporate elites of the military-industrial-petroleum complex loot the oil and further enrich themselves?" - secular idiot

This is a great example of that saying "The mind is terrible thing to waste". It's too late for secular but some of you may have time to save yourselves.

"No real Republican is as stupid as "Jay" pretends to be" - clown

But real Democrats are as brain dead as all of you are.

Washington Monthly = The Al Qaeda Puppet Show

Trivia question.

"A mind is a terrible thing to have lost - Or to have never had one at all - so sad, but true"

Dan Quayle speaking to the United Negro College Fund, or about Jay?

Washington Monthly = The Al Qaeda Puppet Show

Well Jay, no one's asking you to stay here.

Oh, I forgot...this is how you fight the War On Terror.

Paging Jay, the intern of Thomas1, paging Jay -

Your banality is needed on the new Jonah Goldberg thread which Kevin has posted.

Please bring all of your GI Joes.

But real Democrats are as brain dead as all of you are.

Said the clown who has yet to make one, single coherent point.

"They don't have time for endless debate of these issues," Ms Rice told reporters on the way to Baghdad. "They have really got to move forward. That is one of the messages that I'll take."

Another message she will deliver is "Stop doing this shit."

Wow, a sexist liberal.

There's nothing sexist about noting a particular individual's demonstrated past propensities: they are judged on their own personal actions, not on the basis of their gender.

The 4th point/question should be: Is it too late?

The 4th point/question should be: Is it too late?

Yes, it's about two and a half years too late. That's why the Republicans have no credibility on this issue--they used patriotism as a wedge issue to drown out legitimate dissent and now they're left with no option but to 'cut and run.'

"We stand down, when they stand up"

How the hell can one effectively fight an insurgency when one of Iraq's finest police units is taken off line?

Yesterday, 1,200 of Iraqis finest were suspended because of alleged atrocities, kidnapping 26 and killing 6 at a meat plant. This unit, the Bernard Kerik Brigade was very effective in allowing death squads to move freely through their area of control. Well, how better to track those death squads? Sort of like a Vice Unit keeping track of the gals in the massage parlor - Why if the squad owns the joint, how better, how better to build up your retirement fund?

Heckuva job, Bernie. And now it's medal time.

They are again fighting the last war, i.e., Iraq, which is already lost. The next opportunity for use of the US military as countering an insurgency is...

never.

The bushliar-criminal regime pretty much nixed the use of the US military as a tool for fighting terrorists (which is all well and good, because they are demonstrably unsuited and useless for fighting terrorists).

In addition to the military demonstrating that they do not know how to fight asymetrical warfare, the American public is going to be a tad more skeptical for the next generation about using the military for adventurism and mythical reenactment of WWII.

Terrorist tactics are here to stay. Hulking militaries are not the way to fight them.

Scientists determine that manliness leads to dog abuse,

http://www.utexas.edu/opa/news/2006/09/psychology19.html

Read Goldberg's op-ed in Los Angeles Times today. He just regurgitates

How true that is.

And I thought Jay was with Jonah at Fire Island for the day.

"Yesterday, 1,200 of Iraqis finest were suspended because of alleged atrocities, kidnapping 26 and killing 6 at a meat plant." - thethirdturd

"BAGHDAD - Iraqi authorities pulled a brigade of about 700 policemen out of service Wednesday in its biggest move ever to uproot troops linked to death squads, indicating the government's seriousness in cleansing Baghdad of sectarian violence."

1200 or 700? I guess facts don't matter when it comes to pushing your agenda.

Kim Murphy and Doug Smith of the LA Times-Washington Post Service, as picked up by the Oregonian, said,

"Iraqi authorities said Wednesday they have suspended an entire brigade of as many as 1,200 police officers for suspected connections to a mass kidnapping and murder".............

Now, go back and play paddy-whack with Jonah.

No time to read, but this here is what appears to be that FMI

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24fd.pdf#search=%22fmi%20counterinsurgency%20june%202006%22

It saddens me to see derogatory comments about this.

This is actually good news. My guess is the military has come up with this on their own, not with the help of a Cheney or a Rumsfeld. Please understand, based on my experience, that many top military men and the military schools are generally quite smart, quite apolitical, and very practical. I wrote some time ago:

"Asking the military, who weren�t trained to build nations and who did their job heroically in the war, to sort out what needs to be done in Iraq or Afghanistan is truly amateurish; such work was never the military�s job. Not even having a full professional cadre of those who speak the language of our enemies, from Afghanistan to Iraq to Iran to Lebanon � how could this administration even pretend to understand what forces it has unleashed? The author of �Fiasco�, Tom Ricks, has said we�ll probably have troops in Iraq for fifteen years because of how amateurishly things have been handled. I grieve for our sons and daughters and our grandchildren who will be forced to handle the mess that will be left behind by this administration."

The only thing that concerns me is the fact that it will take a good time to re-train our military, and they will be stuck there in Afghanistan and Iraq for a long time with a dual role. The other thing is that such a re-training cannot be the primary mission of the military, which is to do a very difficult job that often involves killing and is messy and not constructive. So there's a contradiction here.

But please, understand that it is a positive step. The job that Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush didn't understand was (a) nation building, (b) fighting an insurgency, (c) fighting a civil war, (d) dealing with guerillas who wore the same clothing as the populace and lived in their apartments and homes.

Don't make fun or denigrate the military. They deserve our heartfelt thanks. They perform like heroes and have done all we've asked of them.

After all the lies and grandstanding since 9/11, it's pretty amazing to see there are many willing to take this proposal at face value (you too Kevin). It's more of the same. First they dump a four ton load of shit in the front yard. Next, they blame the Dems for it. Third, they show up with a dozen roses, stand them up all over the mountain of shit and say, "Look! problem solved!". And finally, they deny the truckload of shit still stinking in the yard ever existed.

Pretty soon the needle playing this broken record is going to grind right through to the turn table!

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