AMEN

I may move to Weiner's district. He's my guy.

The Repubs are working that 'illegal immigrants' issue like an old toothless hound numbling a weathered old bone.

The $7.4-million bill was the subject of much controversy even before the vote, as Republicans balked at the procedural manner by which the bill came to the floor, which precluded any GOP amendments and required a 2/3 majority vote.

Mayor Bloomberg criticized both parties' behavior, saying, "It was wrong for the overwhelming majority of Republicans to vote against the bill and it was wrong for Democrats to bring the bill to the floor under rules that made passage so much more difficult."

Earlier in the day, he knocked Democrats, saying the bill would pass easily if it only required a simple majority.

Looks like dems wanted to shut R's out of the process on this and it blew up in their face.

Quality rant by Weiner though, i'll give him that.

I'm going to offer dems the same advice that Pelosi and other top ranking dems offered the majority of Americans during vote on healthcare.

"if you don't like it...that's what elections are for."

I pointed this out on the Rand thread - sorry, MT, you can't take all the credit!

Kev, he's my guy too. He can fight with the best of them.

Elena24 gets the cred. A good double barrel blast.

great piece!

Is this kind of behaviour what Democrats mean when they say they want a classless society?

Re: Anthony Weiner's "rant". I could not agree more with Michael's blog. I am a registered democrat in the US and what I have missed since President Obama took office is passion - both from the party and the president. Go Representative Weiner!!! I support you all the way.

My initial reaction to the video, without sound, was,"Paul Ryan - why are you embarassing us?"

If somebody yells, insults or bullies, my thought is they have something to hide, they have no substantive argument, that they are trying to disarm, or that they are taking advantage of the squeaky wheel theory.

Tell us quietly and calmly why this large sum of money needs to be allocated to New York City. Ensure us the funds have not been committed previously. And tell us why this isn't included in health care reform or private insurance.

And Weiner is railing to the the Republicans about the procedure, one chosen by the Democrats.

That said, it is good to see toughness and steely resolve in leaders.

Anthony Weiner is passionate and not afraid to speak up, he has especially been concerned with health care a dire issue in our country. The facts are that millions of people in this country do not have health care which effects their basic quality of life and these people die younger with no treatments for their afflictions.
An Irish saying is "A country that does not care for it's people has no soul".
We need a bunch more people in office like Anthony Weiner, maybe he will inspire others to take a stand for just causes.

If somebody yells, insults or bullies, my thought is they have something to hide, they have no substantive argument, that they are trying to disarm, or that they are taking advantage of the squeaky wheel theory

But Congress does nothing but yell, insult or bully. Remember the 'with us or against us' period of American Congressional history?

They may be all sorts of logical reasons to reject the bill, but the electorate isn't going to be interested in potentially complicated legislative issues. If the Democrats had any savvy (debatable), this would be all over the weekend media as the Republicans turning down health benefits for 9/11 rescue workers (if I were in Dem communications, I would already be on the phone "how many firemen can you get to me by 4pm...").

But the Democrats are terribly with the message, despite that vast liberal conspiracy of the Mainstream Media we keep hearing so much about.

followed the link, amazing stuff, but christ i almost clicked on the 'sarah for 2012' banner and damn near vaporised the universe.

need a kind of warning feature on this sorta thing guys.

perclue;

....but christ i almost clicked on the 'sarah for 2012' banner and damn near vaporised the universe.

that's funny
I know the feeling
:)

I think there's a time and place for rants like Weiners.

But I also agree with what Van Jones said last week at Netroots Nation - we don't want to win the food fight, we want to end the food fight.

I'm not so sure the best strategy is for the Democrats to start acting as juvenile as the Republicans.

I love the arguments, of course. Back during healthcare, all the conservatives wanted each individual bit to be an individual bill, so they could vote on each piece seperately.

Now, we've got an individual bill that handles one simple thing. So let's vote no because we're not being given the chance to water it down with garbage!

Similarly, I'm sure the whole thing WAS carefully and delicately explained, with all the info ngavc and such thinkers want. This, of course, failed to woo the party of 'no', which has proven itself unable to respond to logic, or facts, other than by ignoring them. So you get an impassioned plea.

Frankly, I don't like impassioned pleas. I think they, as ngavc says, are devoid of merit, and indicative of a failed argument. Sadly, it's what a vast swath of Americans respond to. Since logic fails on that vast swath, democrats either have to master the impassioned, but informationally devoid, plea, or they can expect to just never court a significant chunk of the country.

But when it comes down to it: yeah, both parties at fault. I blame republicans more, as they are the ones who voted against the bill. But democrats ARE responsible for putting political requirements in front of getting this done. But then again, when they put the healthcare bill on the floor normally, it got watered down, debated endlessly, and significantly weakened, all in exchange for not a single extra vote. So really, they're in a lose-lose situation, and they know it.

When you're in a prisoner's dillema with collusion, you have to actually punish the other guy if they don't play by the deal.

Refreshing to see such honest and fiery spiritedness as a change from the daily media induced race baiting.

Greg Sargant sees it a bit differently.

To be clear, I'm all for the kind of passion Weiner is showing here, but let's direct it properly. Don't get into a shouting match about procedure. As emotionally satisfying as it may be to watch, raging against the GOP opposition machine's successful efforts to tie Dems in knots just makes Dems look whiny, weak and impotent.

Just remember how much fun we had with Boehner's rant.

Republicans are using procedural excuses to deny health monitoring services to 9-11 rescue workers. Period. How much more black and white can it get?

But they didn't did they ? Because they couldn't as the Dems made it a 2/3 majority bill. The Dems don't have a 2/3 majority so they lost. Period - as you say. Don't blame the Republicans because they tried a procedural trick and it didn't work.

kattw

Similarly, I'm sure the whole thing WAS carefully and delicately explained, with all the info ngavc and such thinkers want.

I think so too. I can't imagine Anthony just going off on one for the sake of it. More to the point, our dear conservative friends probably don't think so either, but, look, they gotta say something negative about this because, well, they just do.

There's a certain crybaby tone to this post. First, Mr. T seems completely at ease with the $8 billion cost of the bill, and second, he fails to acknowledge that the bill failed because of a procedural hurdle the Ds themselves put in place.

I have no problem with the Ds creating awkward political votes for the Rs, that's politics, but criminy, don't complain about it when it's your own fault!

in an interesting irony, Wiener is one of the more respected libs in conservative circles because he has the courage to go on Fox several times a week and participates in very calm debates.

Anthony Weiner?

Sounds like a Democrat whiner. I'll be looking for a whole lot more whining from the Democrats crying once we close out this next election.

whine (hwn, wn)
v. whined, whin·ing, whines
v.intr.
1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint.
2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion.
3. To produce a sustained noise of relatively high pitch: jet engines whining.

The Democrats set up the rules so the Republicans cannot make any changes or add amendments and then they lose. What do they do?

BLAME SOMEBUDDY ELSE!

What a bunch of losers.

As emotionally satisfying as it may be to watch, raging against the GOP opposition machine's successful efforts to tie Dems in knots just makes Dems look whiny, weak and impotent.

Sorry, once in awhile things get to you. this is an important NY issue. It got to him. it gets to all of us.

Weak, whiny and impotent? Anthony was angry for the people that rushed toward a disaster when everybody else was running away from it. They did not stop to worry about health insurance then. We called them heroes after September 11 because they went in there and did things that none of us had the courage to do. People lined up on the West Side Highway cheering the demolition teams going to work on that site in the days following the attack.

They cheered because those people were not weak, whiny and impotent!

And I note some hypocrisy too - those same conservatives who pretend they care so much for the sensibilities of New Yorkers that they oppose the construction of a mosque near the WTC site, will ignore those sensibilities when it suits them.

Not only was there no penalty placed on him. They threw him a goodbye party. And - this is the kicker - he didn't even go to it!

Don't worry Mr. T -

When the Democrats lose this fall I'll pitch in to throw them a GOODBYE PARTY. Well be havin weiners and soda pop for you kiddies.

IanCW
30 Jul 2010, 6:28PM

Remember the 'with us or against us' period of American Congressional history?

Vaguely. I was concerned we'd lose another war on the homefront. But, I do have a fresher memory - you're with us or you're a racist.

MLB01
30 Jul 2010, 7:25PM

in an interesting irony, Wiener is one of the more respected libs in conservative circles because he has the courage to go on Fox several times a week and participates in very calm debates

Why couldn't Michael have said that? I'd have been completely disarmed. FNC Dems are in a special elite class. Michael should have said,"This made Democrat Anthony Weiner of Brooklyn (Who has been on FNC X number of times) pretty unhappy. That said, any request for federal funds for local projects is suspect, especially now.

Elena,

I agree with you 100% on the substance.

But what Michael is raising here is whether or not fighting battles in this manner is an effective strategy. That's where Sargant disagrees (go check out his post).

I also agree that rants like Weiner's just happen sometimes because we feel that strongly about something. It can be a good cathartic release. Again, the question is whether or not its good political strategy.

Check out this video of Weiner this morning carrying on with Rep. King. The important point is the very end when the Faux News guy smiles as he points out that this is why Congress has such low approval rates amongst the voters. This is JUST what the Republicans want...an ugly food fight where eventually everyone throws up their hands and says "a pox on both your houses." Polarization and gridlock are their goals.

smarty

But what Michael is raising here is whether or not fighting battles in this manner is an effective strategy

Probably not. Still don't blame him for doing it.

I wonder why it makes republicans so damn uncomfortable?

It's interesting that his message is that the government should be working for the people, not themselves. If he had an R in front of his name, they would love him !

Once again.
MT is right, the GOP plan is to obstruct anything and everything.

Curious then, that the media, so resolutely "liberal" according to the narrative from the right, isn't all over this with daily exposes.
Of course it's because the media isn't "liberal" at all, but the strategic genius of the right has created a meme that it is.
And so here we are with an utterly dysfunctional system, with the prime movers in that dysfunction successfully portraying the problem as the other side's sinister socialist agenda, among other things. Reds are still under the bed even now, imagine that.

Meanwhile, the really important choices before us - energy, water, infrastructure, debt, baby boom demographics etc. - are steadfastly ignored. Choices that have been identified and understood for better than thirty years.

The decline continues.... we have constructed a modernity that we cannot afford to maintain ... that cannot be maintained in it's present form ... and we'll engage in whatever kabuki theater we can to avoid facing that fact.

Are we having fun yet?

InLightened -There we go again having a bad day are we,
No party whines or rants more then Republicans, which has been their strategy for the last two years led by Boehner. We now know you can use a dictionary, name call and be a smart ass but can you offer something honest or positive.

Obviously the republican talking point for the day is the use of the word "whine".

To all rushing to use those points: I have been a grownup supporting myself since age 13, I do not whine, and I'm not weak. Also I can spell. Neither are my family, friends and colleagues online and in person.

I can remember too, when members of the opposition were "either with us or with the terrorists".

Among the more foolish decisions the Republicans have taken is this nonsense about democrats being racist. Like all hardliners, they are rushing off the cliff.

in an interesting irony, Wiener is one of the more respected libs in conservative circles because he has the courage to go on Fox several times a week and participates in very calm debates.

Good point, MLB. I've seen Weiner perform from time to time on Fox.

He pulls it off with aplomb and finesse. He clearly enjoys it.

Doesn't back down, yet really engages. Confident in himself, his facts, the argument he's prepared to make, but not sneering or disdainful towards "the enemy."

He clearly believes he's smarter than them but it's because he believes in the strength of his argument, not because he thinks he's inherently superior.

He treats his antagonists on Fox like they're the other side rather than mortal kombat cartoon video game enemies, and seems disappointed, faintly wistful somehow, should the exchange threaten to degenerate into a vein-popping shouting match.

I think this is a brash, confident young man who relishes the uncompromising contest of ideas but longs for a great national debate rather than a knife fight in an ideological alley.

My gut level take on Weiner has always been, if I'm a soldier or an undercover cop on lethal assignment, I know this guy's got my back.

I think Weiner radiates an old-fashioned thing we call patriotism.

Okay, so much for the BJ.

Elena, kudos to you. I saw your excellent comment and link in the other thread early this morning.

So the Democrats need more whiny, ranting idiots? They already have a majority of them. Excluding illegals is something all Democrats should be for. The fact they are not shows exactly who and what they are. Of course the Democrats are whiners. They choose the game; set up the rules; lose and then blame someone else. Calling them whiners is kind. BTW MT doesn't make Republicans uncomfortable at all. If his beliefs were right he'd just cite the biil he supports so we could read it ourselves and in his article state why he supports it. All he does is pick and choose from left-wing websites, extolling their opinion of what the bill says and name call. I guess thats an admission he's always wrong, but its the reason nothing ever gets done here.

Are having fun yet? Golf on the ocean this weekend and Crab cakes in Maryland. What could be more fun?

Again with the "whining". Is there someone who tells you guys what to say every day? Are you the pod people?

fotoartiste

That Democrats are whiners when they control the House, Senate and Presidency and rant about getting legislation through. I would use worse be it would be moderated.

Calling them whiners and losers is an honest assesment.

BFP

If Weiner had done last night what you describe him doing regularly on Faux News, we probably wouldn't be talking about it today.

He lost it - and perhaps rightly so. But I'm not so sure how he handled himself last night is stuff to build a political strategy on. I personally start having thoughts about Howard Dean in 2004. That didn't work out so well...and I was a HUGE Deaniac.

We need to punish guys like Neil Abercrombie and make sure he never becomes the Democratic candidate for governer of Hawaii.

InLightened & gwillikers -You guys are running neck and neck for the stupid, big mouth pushy person of the day. Same sorry crap day in day out. Just too much for you when a Democrat speaks up.
InLightened - I am sure you have a store of vile language you could use, congratulations.
.I am wondering why you decided to call yourself InLightened when you come from the opposite end of the spectrum? You could call yourself Fox News Parrot

smarty-
Affirming BFP's comment and expanding upon my own, it's hard to have much complaint with Weiner. Sure, he was over the top yesterday and I rarely agree with him on substantive issues, but when many of the Ds and other libs were calling for a boycott of Fox and other similar nonsense, he instead took the opportunity to make his arguments on Fox and other conservative outlets and, to my observation, never ducked any questions. He earned my respect and has a lot of credit to burn in my book.

" I'm as mad as hell and i'm not going to take this anymore "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIY5Vyj4YM

MLB

My problem really isn't with Weiner - I actually think he's pretty great (although I must admit to mixed feelings about the value of going on Faux News).

My problem is with what MT said:

Follow this link to TPM to watch his amazing tirade on the floor last night.

This is what the Democrats need more of.

As I've said before, I can understand the occasional cathartic rant. What I don't agree with is that its a good idea as a political strategy for the Democrats.

MLB01
30 Jul 2010, 9:26PM
I actually do admire the Dems who show up on FNC. Often, the evening interviews are essentially unfair, so it takes discipline and perserverance to get a point across. And they may even win over some converts, or simply raise doubts. FNC does seem to have more liberals on than ever before. I've never seen Weiner, so may not be watching enough. (Actually, it gets pretty boring.) One guy who comes across well is Ed Rendell, the Pennsylvania governor. And Alan Combes is very good. But as VM noted, FNCis a default channel for many voters. Democrats who can do well there are useful to their party.

We all know both sides will fight any legislation that allows the other side to gain any electoral advantage at this point, but here are the concerns about the Bill from GOP.Gov:

Some Members may be concerned about several issues:

1.H.R. 847 creates a new entitlement program.
2.H.R. 847 is paid for with a tax increase on companies located in the United States that are employing American workers.
3.H.R. 847 is not means tested. An amendment to preclude millionaires from accessing the new health entitlement created by Title I was defeated during the markup in Energy and Commerce Committee.
4.NIOSH does not have expertise in administering a health care payment program. The current program is a block-grant program, and under H.R. 847, NIOSH will negotiate contracts and approve treatment protocols.
5.H.R. 847 increases hospital reimbursement rates to 140 percent of Medicare reimbursement rates on average for New York City hospitals while ObamaCare cuts $150 billion in payments to hospitals around the country.
6.H.R. 847 does not reward hospitals and providers for improving health care. They will be reimbursed based on each service they perform, which will encourage overutilization and increase health care spending.
7.Currently, several programs receive federal funding for medical monitoring and treatment programs. Those programs include: Fire Department of New York WTC Medical Monitoring Program, New York/New Jersey WTC Consortium, WTC Health Registry, WTC Federal Responder Screening Program, Project COPE, and POPPA (Police Organization Providing Peer Assistance) program.
8.Limited oversight fails to ensure taxpayer funds are spent properly and effectively. Government health care programs, such as Medicare, have a significant amount of fraud.
9.H.R. 847 gives too much discretion in the unreviewable authority of the Special Master.
10.H.R. 847 permits claimants to seek compensation through the VCF even if they have settled their lawsuits against the $1 billion taxpayer-funded World Trade Center Captive Insurance Company.
11.H.R. 847 includes protections for trial lawyers, including the ability to receive taxpayer-funded compensation for work not directly related to recovery from the VCF. In addition, attorneys who have been compensation under another settlement will have access to settlement funds under the reopened VCF.
12.12. H.R. 847 extends the geographic scope of the original September 11 Fund and gives the Special Master discretion to extend it even farther.
13.H.R. 847 caps the VCF at $8.4 billion, which is an invitation and a guarantee to spend $8.4 billion

http://www.gop.gov/bill/111/2/hr847

Frances56

" I'm as mad as hell and i'm not going to take this anymore "

That sounds like the current Tea Party and many Americans right now. It's coming.

fotoartiste

.I am wondering why you decided to call yourself InLightened when you come from the opposite end of the spectrum?

Wow. Thats all I can say. Wow.

InLightened: Good! Stick with small words for now. I know the crayon is a bit big for your hand, but you need to work on your handwriting for now.