That we killed a bunch of random dark-skinned people in reaction to 9/11 doesn't prove that we weren't traumatized, but that we were. The Iraq War was incontrovertible proof that in that aftermath this country lost its mind.

But Kristol and is ilk don't have a reasonable point of view; their point of view is, at best, that it's "disrespectful" or "insensitive" somehow to build the Cordoba Center at that location, which in turn presumes the individual conflates the Muslims planning the outreach center with the murderers who perpetrated 9/11. And that point of view, while it might be excused if someone was traumatized by 9/11 -- people posing as public intellectuals or leaders like Kristol and Palin have no such excuse -- is sheer nonsense.

But it gets worse -- since the initial concept that the government should intervene on the side of simple religious bigotry was so laughably easy to refute, dishonest conservatives -- but I repeat myself -- far from withdrawing in emarrassment for their un-American stance, have doubled down with a new, even more bogus story: That the "mosque" somehow represents a "claim of victory" at the site of the attack.

Pernicious nonsense -- in other words, Kristol's stock in trade.

This topic has been in the news for days. Can someone provide a bit of clarity for me. Is there a NYC planning commission that will determine what can and can not be built? I assume so. Let it make its ruling (and I assume the mosque would fit the use criteria) and then let the subject alone.

geez, gregory, you and i are responding sync lately!

there are no "reasonable arguments" against the "mosque" because it's not a mosque! anyone who calls cordoba house a mosque, by definition, isn't making a reasonable argument.

Instead of "Muslim Americans," how about "American Muslims"? You didn't hyphenate, but might as well have. Personally, I reject the notion that Americans shd be divided by religion as well as by race or the country of one's birth or of one's forebears. No Catholic-Americans. No Jewish-Americans. No atheist-Americans. No Agnostic-Americans. No Muslim-Americans. Just plain old Americans just as if we were one nation, indivisible, with no "sovereign citizen" movement (Export THOSE non-citizen-Americans now!). And no nullifiers or secessionists either-- "indivisible", they pledge-- just patriotic citizens whose religion is their own bloody business.
Let's not slice and dice the pie any more than strictly necessary, okay?

tomb, not only is there a planning commission, it already made its decision (29-1 in favor, as i recall)!

that's what launched the national phase of the issue: all these right-wingers who claim to be conservatives and favor local control have concluded that the local planning board doesn't know anything and needs to be overruled!

This is the central challenge of politicians and media: to criticize and report without analyzing every word for a meaning which may or not be there.
Just before Pres Clinton had his flap over the word "is" I happened to be at a speech by some random Republican, whose name escapes me. He said that Clinton would be removed from office because he lied under oath in the Lewinski case. And that the American people would rise up and demand he be impeached and removed.
What he and others missed is that Americans generally don't care about such lawyerly details, details only well fed people with too much time on their hands wirry about. Clinton may or may not have known this but it seems to have worked in his favor.

So, Kristol may complain about "trauma" but when many Americans are going hungry at night and living shorter lives because their healthcare sucks and their quality of life has declined in the past 30 years it seems disingenuous and pointless to do so.

"Obama (like Bloomberg) doesn't feel he even has to engage the arguments against the mosque -- because he regards his fellow citizens as emotionally traumatized victims, not citizens who might have a reasonable point of view."

Ah yes, those reasonable arguments. What are they again?

Tomm @11:19 - I think it's okay to be a hyphenated American. For example, an African-American has the capacity to celebrate his/her African heritage as well as his/her American heritage/citizenship.

Neither part takes anything away from the other. The diversity in America should be celebrated.

Bill Kristol is a dick.

Traumatic events invite characteristic reactions and over-reactions -- fearfulness, anger, even hysteria.

Sounds like a pretty apt description of the crap that flowed from Kristol's mouth--and Cheney's--for years after 9/11.

Kristol, Fox, et al are simply hyping the hysteria so that the teabaggers and other conservatives get riled up for the polls in November. The 'mosque' critics don't care about the mosque other than it gives them reason to rile the base through emotional rhetoric concerning American dead and hate of the "other".

Steve -- While I usually agree with your point of view, I am growing weary of the consistent presentation: 1) conservative A attacks when Obama does X, 2) conservative A did not complain when Bush did X, 3) conservative A is a crazy, hypocritical idiot.

Maybe a little more focus on what liberal ideas are and why they are right rather than focusing primarily on conservative idiocy. Good for the spleen but not necessarily good for elections and legislative victories.

Who are the good guys and what are they doing?

Even if the city cared about this, let's not forget that the rabid right was all for RFRA.

Poor reactionaries.

Never underestimate how completely essential it is for the American right to pretend that their emotional responses are actually borne of reasonable, principled outrage. That's really the basic principle of the wingnut media machine: these people must be flattered, persuaded that their mythologies are really essential truths, and encouraged in their tantrums. This in turn creates the ever-increasing rage and ignorance among the base necessary for a failed, unprincipled ideology to continue to have disproportionate political power.

Generally, I maintain that conservatism doesn't create anything useful, but there's no denying that the perpetual feedback loop they've created is useful for them, at least.