Some good news about 'Islamic terror'

Where in his blog entry did Walt mention Israel, Zionism, or Jews?

That question posed, given the funding of Islamophobic incitement by hyper-wealthy Zionists as well as the mobilization of anti-Muslim hatred by Zionist intelligentsia, no one can seriously dispute that Islamophobia is the Zionism of fools.

Good lord, Scott. Don't you have anything better to do than post this garbage to Walt's blog? If you put half as much effort into thinking about the world as you do in your attempted character assassination, you'd quickly realize that you've been a fool.

Sigh, come on guys.

Danial Pipes is one of the most rabid anti-Islamic anti-Palestian commentators there is! He supports the hate-speech of Geert Wilders. 'Nuff said in my book.

These little high-school exercises in "is being anti-"x" equate to being anti "XYZ"?" are terrifyingly simple and mundane "exercises in basic reasoning". But for your sakes 'cos you seem to need it - is the woman holding the "Stop Wilders" sign anti-Dutch?? etc etc etc.

Is Horowitz anti-semitic 'cos he hates Chomsky??

Dear, oh dear.

Daniel

I don't think this article is about Jews issues. No one have rights to speak against Israel or Jews because it is Ant-Semite. Basically freedom of speech is only against Muslims and Christians or against any non-Jewish.
Last wk, terrorist arrested in Michigan with explosives in his car but since he was going to attack on mosque he will be diagnosed with psychiatrist illness. When terrorist students to shootings in school no religion mentioned because they not Muslims so they get psych diagnosis. what a hypocrisy of media. All these Jews writer and anti Muslims dont like to read facts written by Steven Walt. have a courage to see facts.

the increasingly obvious thing about this kind of crapola is how widely it is being ignored and mocked.

A decade ago, this was an unanswerable charge, a conversation-stopper. Now it's ever more seen as a rant by people trying to defend the indefensible. Walt is especially hated because he very effectively started to pull the plug on this intellectual sewage tank.

Glug, glug, glug, Zionist fanatics!

seriously, must have triggered the Hasbara alarms when I posted. I'd just noticed the last two articles had nothing to do with Israel, and few comments.

...because Walt could post about food prices in Congo, and someone would still call him a Jew Basher.

FP readers dont have much of a sense of humor.

--FP copy chief

...and ignorance is the best soil for fear to grow in. The less you know about an enemy the more you fear it.

Run through the scenarios with them. I mean at some point, they're talking about an invasion, right? So, where are they gonna mass these forces? Think the Canadians would allow them? After all, an invasion from Mexico could run in 600 miles and still not take Northern California. Think Camp Pendelton in San Diego, not to mention the city it's self, LA and the line of cities that work their way up the coast. Perhaps the precious AZ desert land could be overrun, there's a few cities. In New Mexico, and TX it's a different matter. Kirtland Air Force base out side of Albuquerque (a base that if it were to secede, would be the third largest nuclear power in the world 15 yrs ago) Not to mention White Sands/Ft Bliss and Kelly AFB in San Antonio. And, of course the cites of El Paso and a host of Border cities, that really cherish their American citizenship, and a literal army of border agents. I know I've left off a host of other military bases and installations, but even after they conquered all of this, they still wouldn't have Interstate 70 nor most of 40. The idea is ludicrous, and having them actually work that out helps.

Of course it's not like the armaments they'd use would be easy to disguise, or are they suggesting a bunch of turban wearing, scimitar wielding maniacs are gonna, what exactly? Run through the shopping mall? Decapitate Congressmen? We'd all cringe. I for one support the 2nd amendment, as do most who subscribe to this wacko notion. So, do they really think all the gun nuts are just gonna cower, after these maniacs, disable our military, national guard and police forces? Do they believe Rambo is a documentary? I mean seriously. Few can endure that exercise and remain so on edge.

I'd fully agree with your assertion that antisemitism is basically a Western/Christain phenomenon. I'd also say that antisemitism is still largely irrelevant when speaking about Muslims attitudes toward Israel, which has more to do with nationalism, culture wars, economics, and, admittedly, some major f**** ups by Israel. Also agreed that the settlers in Hebron don't offer much in the way of reasonable dialog (if it's any consolation, they seem to hate most of their fellow Jews as much as they despise everyone else).

Would have to disagree though, with the notion that Muslims in Palestine were gracious hosts to those Jewish refugees from Eastern Europe. They actually made life pretty miserable for those Jews and fought tooth and nail to keep Jews out. Again, that's not because they were anti-Semites -- they were acting out of ethnic self interest just like everyone else does. Still, no need to candycoat history.

Anyway, on the topic of the article (which had nothing to do with Israel or Jews though there is the usual mudslinging at pundits who happen to be Jewish), Walt's point vis a vis Islamaphobia is well taken. Fear of homegrown Islamic terrorism is clearly overblown and often little more than thinly vieled racism.

That said, Walt's analysis is a bit simplistic. I think both European and American governments would tell you they've been doing precisely what Gahgeer suggests -- coordinating their efforts and stepping up counterterrorism operations. And then there is that ole' War on Terror thing. As much as all the fighting has sapped American/NATO strength it also has to be having some impact on the terror groups or drawing their focus away from attacks abroad. At the very least, the wars haven't brought on the waves of new terrorists that some have claimed are being created by the GWoT. And lastly, the protests all over the Muslim world, from Tehran last year to Tunisia, Egypt and Yemen seem to point to a bit of a breakdown in the pan Islam movement, inasmuch as the Muslim world was ever monolithic in its views and agendas.

In other words, it's all pretty complicated.

DAV305Z wrote:

"In other words, it's all pretty complicated."

While I don't agree with all of what DAV305Z wrote, and don't know enough about some to either agree or disagree, what an exemplary post for the most part: Balanced, cooly stated, sober, gently prods you to double-check your own opinions....

Nice to see. Thanks.

Gahgeer: "And the banality to which "anti-semite" and "jew hater" has so far reached because of its misuse by the some dual-loyalty American Jews is really baffling."

It's so amusing to see people like yourself try to argue against the issue of bigotry by making bigoted comments of your own.

Then explain the rejection of Israel by South African countries, Eastern Asian countries? I'll remind you, South African countries have vociferously joined the chorus as well as Canada, the EU. Your literally without a friend in the world. This crosses all cultural, religious and legal systems. Why, irrational hatin'? Man, that's some disturbed thinking. I'm American, I know we're transgressing in a similar way. I know our history, I know how we're all propagandized from childhood. You point your finger at the Palestinians' schools, yet don't consider your own? What were the borders on the maps at your school? Cause Israel doesn't like maps, not current political maps--they like historic maps 3000 yrs old.

Yes, why do so many African and East Asian nations rush to criticize Israel? Last I checked, most of those places are hardly bastions of human rights, though they seem to have no trouble getting on the lovely UN Human Rights Council. I'd argue it has a lot to do with the banality of international politics. I'd also argue Israel catches a lot of heat simply because it's an easy target. Try slamming the United States, China, or any of the NATO countries and see how far it gets you. As I've said many times in the past, none of this means Israel is beyond reproach: clearly it is not. But the whole "Everybody says you're wrong" argument is pretty simplistic given how hypocritical and frankly off kilter the international conversation is.

As far as what's taught in Israeli schools, I can't tell you. Like you, I grew up in American public schools singing "This land is your land this land is my land, from California to the NY Island." But, yes, you could be right. Most Israelis definitely consider Judea and Samaria as well as the Golan part of Israel. They'd say they won it fair and square, in wars that grew out of Arabs' rejectionist stance. That said, most Israelis consistently support exchanging territory for peace. That support will likely grow stronger if the Egyptian peace holds.

"They'd say they won it fair and square, in wars that grew out of Arabs' rejectionist stance. That said, most Israelis consistently support exchanging territory for peace."

The whole world rejects this principle. In fact, Israel itself signed UN Res 242 which renounced this right. Why does Israeli policy contradict international law and their own treaties? You might look at this hypocrisy when trying to explain universal derision. And, the US, China, and Russia all get heaps of invective directed at them. But, not the universal rejection Israel faces from all but the US.

Interesting arguments that you raise.

"1)Is this "terrorism problem" still extant, or is it over?"

Is our close relationship with Israel extant, or is it over?

"2)If the "terrorism problem" is over, then wouldn't it point to the fact that Israel wasn't really the cause, since our relationship with them remains the same as it was when Steve wrote that.?"

True, but it's not over. How many suicide attacks have taken place in Iraq and Afghanistan this past week alone?

"3)If the "terrorism problem" has not abated (or even if it has), why is it somehow OK for Steve to point out this alleged phenomenom, but not others?"

Who made that argument?

BTW Dave, don't forget to take your straw man with you when you leave.

And as for your replies/non-replies, Neoleft:

Is our close relationship with Israel extant, or is it over?

This is both nonresponsive, and something I clearly answered in the post to which you replied.

True, but it's not over. How many suicide attacks have taken place in Iraq and Afghanistan this past week alone?

This is an interesting reply. You agree with my point ["If the "terrorism problem" is over, then wouldn't it point to the fact that Israel wasn't really the cause..."], but point out that the "terrorism problem" isn't over.

I think you are mistaken on a number of levels. First, when Steve refers to so-called 'Islamic terror' or our 'terrorism problem', I don't think he is referring to Iraqis blowing up other Iraqis or Afghanis blowing up other Afghanis. Second, even if Steve was including foreign nationals murdering their fellow countrymen in far away places when he invoked 'Islamic terror' or our 'terrorism problem', it is a very far leap to conclude that Israel has anything to do with it.

Who made that argument?

Steve did. For instance, this quote:

I know there are lot of people getting rich fueling Islamophobia, but we'd really all be better off if they would focus their attention to anarchists, or maybe separatist groups like ETA.

Steve here is calling out those who focus on so-called 'Islamic terror' as bigots. Yet he did the same when he wrote of our 'terrorism problem'. He didn't focus his attention on anarchists or separatist groups either. So, to reiterate - is there a 'terrorism problem', as Steve wrote, and if there is why is it not OK for people not named 'Steve Walt' to talk about it?

Well made point.

...not to interrupt your exercise in bedwetting and randomized 'connect-the-dots' reasoning, but we could never have waged a single war since 1990, and you'd still be broke in Dallas, as they are in Cali and most everywhere else. And your problems with your public service workers in TX have nothing to do with Empire/the fed/gas prices/foreign military bases/Egypt.

Also = America is not an Empire (study actual empires first, then compare/contrast) and 'financiers' are not robbing drivers with a gas surcharge.

The #1 problem you fail to identify is the profligacy of US state and federal spending. Thats why you're in a hole, not because of Iraq or the joos. See, there's this thing called 'economic cycles' which Keynes proposed could be ameliorated by government spending... which in fact, has done nothing but make a hole deeper, longer, wider.

Read the vanity fair story by Michael Lewis (when irish eyes are crying); it provides a nice microcosm of how cheap money+ government ineptitude/encouragement of unsound investment+natural cyclical processes destroyed the 'celtic tiger'; all without any help from the Evil American Empire, strangely. What happened to them happened to us, but in a simpler form that is easier for the non-economically literate to grasp.

cheap money+federally mandated subprime lending+illusions of proper risk management = Bust

'Extraordinary Delusions and The Madness of Crowds' needs a new edition, with a couple chapters on 1999-2009

You've offered nothing new, and missed the principle of opportunity costs. Furthermore, the examples I provided are indeed typical examples of our profligacy--which you correctly identified. You're missing the larger picture. Furthermore, you are wrong on speculation--that is indeed part and parcel of our Fed's attempts to restart some inflation in our soft economy. You've failed to connect the dots and do the due diligence on commodities speculation. When we've had supplies as great as they are today, gas sold for less than a $1/gal. What fundamentals have changed that justifies stock prices? Again, here we likely agree on the nature of ill-advised legislation--ethanol from food has created real demand pressures on corn, but most are due to QE2 and corporate cash that's sloshing around with no demand to fulfill.

Further, you argue about business cycles but ignore that is my very point, we are presumably coming out of a recession that is driven by lack of demand. There is no way that laying off all those workers will boost demand. I admit that borrowing money to keep those salaries isn't a great solution, but it may be the best we have available.

Anyway, these layoffs will have real repercussions not just economically but politically. This will no doubt put pressure on military spending. Finally, your assertion that we are not an empire is asinine. YOU might want to study history and empires. We've basically established leaders in every country that makes up the former Ottoman Empire--and that is on the other side of the world. We don't have our puppets in all of those countries, but those exceptions are ringed with our troops. No, our empire isn't totally connected like was necessary in the days before air travel, nuclear powered navies and the like. But, 750 military bases abroad makes a pretty good case.

They aren't copying our ideas, they are our proxy forces, this is more waste of our money. If we stopped the MILITARY Aid, these states would be forced to deal with these people. Of course those insurgents are often situated in some critical valley/pass, or on some mineral rich land. Rather than demand they get compensation for their land, which would reduce terrorism threats, we snatch and grab and let the chips fall where they may. Well, many of those chips land on shoulders, and we should care about this. This, CEO is what democracy means. The rights of individuals are protected. We do a fair job of that here, and deal with the worst of the worst abroad. Have you missed our support of Mubarak and Suleiman? Have you forgotten the Declaration of Independence? Those living under tyranny have a right and duty to alter or abolish that tyranny. Further, the colonial master tyranny is the real tyranny. Why are we painting targets on our country? Why are we flying pilotless drones over defenseless people?

You should get the CAIR updates and balance those with ADL. The Muslims don't even note the repeated slurs that would have Abe Foxman taking notes, wailing, and tearing at his clothes. Plus, the official bigotry toward Muslims versus Jews--our intelligence services aren't balanced here.

I don't understand what this comment has to do with Walt's post. Pointing out that we have a problem with Islamophobia in North America and Europe doesn't equate to denying the existence of antisemitism.

This (unlike power/security...) is not a zero-sum game. There is enough hate to go around for everyone.

First let me say to the poster who decides to attack the validity of the information: if you want to go and find clear evidence that there is a different definiton of anti-semetism and Islamophobia in the government reports then please by all means post it.

Now let me go on to say that yes, both Islamophobia and Anti-semetism are problems. Yet what bothers me is this. In his "Kudos to Clemens" Walt says:

"Second, using the charge of anti-Semitism as an all-purpose weapon designed to silence any and all criticisms of Israeli policy makes it harder to deal with the dwindling number of genuine anti-Semites who still exist. Like all forms of ethnic or religious bigotry, anti-Semitism is a despicable phenomenon with a long and sordid history, and we should all remain vigilant against its resurgence and condemn it when it arises."

Take special note of "the dwindling number of genuine anti-Semites who still exist" and "we should all remain vigilant against its resurgence and condemn it when it arises".

There is not a dwindling number of anti-semetic cases, and addressing such a significantly smaller (but no less terrible) problem while brushing off anti-semetism is absurd.