If it finally proves to the idiot cable companies that not every American home wants the shopping, religious, Spanish language and BET channels, thus getting us closer to a la carte cable, then I'm all for it.

'll use a supermarket snooping loyalty card only when it gets stuffed into my cold, dead hands.

With you on that, though you can sometimes find them in supermarket parking lots if you want to screw with them;>

Can we please start focusing a bit more on the fact that inflation and unemployment are BOTH growing. That is not supposed to happen. We are heading at a dead sprint to 'stagflation' and instead we talk about Eliot Spitzer and Geraldine Feraro.

I am shocked, shocked I tell you to think that Albertson's is using my pretty blue supermarket/snoop loyalty card to gather information on how much virgin olive oil and and toilet paper I buy. But I will gladly sacrifice data re my nothing boring life and habits to get a break on yellow squash at Albertson's for $1 lb with pretty blue card vs. $2.89 at local family owned store here in wine and horse country. Helps my family pay $17,000+ a year in health insurance premiums.

Point 1: My supermarket's registers will take any of its courtesy cards - whether it's registered to you or a phony address - or even registered at all.

Point 2: For years I managed to avoid supermarkets that required the card to get sale prices, but alas, no longer. The only store convenient to me (Kroger) won't ring the sales price without the card. Sale prices save me 20-25%. Put it another way, without the card, you are feeding their shareholders.

Bottom line: Learn to love those cards.

If it leads to more accurate TV ratings, then I'm all in favor. This isn't necessarily about personal privacy. The only reason to be suspicious in the least is that we know that the FCC has no interest in regulating this sort of activity.

Data will have no value when we stop caring about who has it. I think that's my view. The more we are concerned about privacy, the more valuable getting that data is. Perhaps I don't have a good sense of privacy.

And as for loyalty cards, those loyalty cards don't mean much in reality. You don't have to give them information that is current. Or even correct. There's no check. I still use my Safeway card number for an apartment I lived in 5 years ago.

If you don't engage in criminal activity at the supermarket, you have nothing to fear.

It's the bookstore cards that bother me.

Are you seriously asking about tracking?
From a web page that uses several tracking schemes?

sitemeter.com, statcounter.com, all the ads with their counters, and so on. All the google 'urchin' stuff is a massive tracking system.

You track so you can know what features are used, what people want, and to prove to advertisers that the viewers are real.

I can't say I approve of Charter's activities, but there are plenty of legit reasons to collect data aside from the potential to sell it. If Charter wants to alter the content they provide to better fit the market, raw data about what people watch and don't watch is exactly the kind of information you'd think they'd need.

Unless you walk around with a wad of cash, they already know what you're buying without a discount card.

I'm not sure how this happened, but I accidentally misspelled my name (a minor dyslexic flip) on something I filled out at work and I eventually started to occasionally receive junk mail with the exact misspelling. Now, if anybody wants me to fill something out and it isn't critical (like a loyalty card), I'm going to misspell my name or change my middle name and see what shows up in the mail later. Find a means to trace the bastards down!

Did you know that your ISP can log every URL you request?

You do know that you can just ask at checkout for them to scan a store-registered discount card? In my state at least, they're legally required to give you the discount price without making you sign up if you ask for it.

Jeff II,

How dare you try to get rid of Rev Ike, speaking Spanish, on QVC - Right now, they are offering great savings on Vietnamese Shrimp being brought in by unregulated truckers from Jalisco.

I don't mind them collecting my information, but I do wish for a federal law that require all advertisement to be clearly labelled as such, so I can throw them out quickly. While I was consolidating my student loans, I used to get tons of official looking envelopes from lenders. Those people should be prosecuted for deceptive advertisement.

Data will have no value when we stop caring about who has it. I think that's my view. The more we are concerned about privacy, the more valuable getting that data is. Perhaps I don't have a good sense of privacy. Posted by: Christopher / Inaudible Nonsense

You sure don't.

Consider the no fly list. There are still thousands of people placed on this list because people who collect and process the data fucked-up. Or consider the people who get incorrect information posted to a credit report.

It doesn't take a great deal of imagination (for the rest of us anyway) to figure out how collecting and selling/sharing personal data with the wrong people (of even the "correct" people) can lead to big problems. And unless there is a massive roll back of the policies and procedures established under Shrub's near dictatorship, you can bet the the aberrations will become the norm.

Big Brother isn't watching. He doesn't have to thanks to the wonders of the Internet and pliable phone companies.

If you use a credit card/debit card, someone is keeping track of what you buy.

If you use the internet, someone is keeping track of where you go and what you say.

And there is a "service" which follows what music you listen to and gives you more similar music.

Am I the only one who laments the days when you went into a library and mulled among the stacks rather than handing in the number and having someone else bring it to you? But then I also love using dictionaries and discovering new words....

I guess I really am getting old.

The government is calling to say that your weekly food log rivals 'War and Peace' in length, and it's only Tuesday. [Sorry - couldn't resist]

There is no such thing as privacy anymore, and we need an overt effort to introduce legislation that would recognize some basic and common-sense barriers.

A colleague of mine used to hack his Tivo as a hobby, which isn't that difficult because it's basically a PC that runs the Linux operating system.

He determined that every single click on the remote control sends a message to Tivo indicating the current time, what show or recording is being watched, and which button was pushed, along with an identifier saying which Tivo box the message was coming from. Tivo collects it all.

Since then, Tivo has made many changes to make their boxes harder to hack into, but they still collect all that data.

Charter can actually make a good deal of moeny on this without selling the data. For example:

1) Measure the Ad watch-through rate: "Hey Starbucks, did you know that your ads on Comedy Central are more likely to be watched in its entirety than on any other channel... Would you like to pay for a few more?"

2) Match subscriber demographic info to watching pattern: "Hey AARP, did you know that 75 year year old white male really enjoy BET's rap video hour?"

3) If you have good enough of a technology you can even have different commercials at the household level. The crazy cat lady next door will get all the catfood commericals while I get all the PS3 commercials even though we watch the same program- but you need reams of subscriber data to make that kind of automated decision.

I'm not sure how this happened, but I accidentally misspelled my name (a minor dyslexic flip) on something I filled out at work and I eventually started to occasionally receive junk mail with the exact misspelling. Now, if anybody wants me to fill something out and it isn't critical (like a loyalty card), I'm going to misspell my name or change my middle name and see what shows up in the mail later. Find a means to trace the bastards down! Posted by: Doc at the Radar Station

I don't mind them collecting my information, but I do wish for a federal law that require all advertisement to be clearly labelled as such, so I can throw them out quickly. While I was consolidating my student loans, I used to get tons of official looking envelopes from lenders. Those people should be prosecuted for deceptive advertisement. Posted by: anon

If you want to, hopefully, stop all this, go here:

http://www.donotmail.org/

Most of the mail carried today by the USPS, at tax-subsidized rates, is bulk/junk mail. If you hate this shit and don't like wasting paper, sign the petition.

We live in a world where people openly talk about the most intimate details of their personal lives on cell phones in front of hundreds of strangers. In which people post sex tapes of themselves on the internet. In which everyone seems to have a burning desire to get on TV or the internet and gossip about themselves.

Frankly, I don't see that anyone cares about privacy anymore. For the most part, we crave the opposite.

Man, I hate to say it because I have the same distaste for this (including the damn "preferred shopper" cards at markets) as you do; but i would think the data would help a cable carrier to structure it's advertising placement. Still doesn't make it right; but that is a use other than selling it....

I agree with everything you wrote, except this:

But even so, I'll use a supermarket snooping loyalty card only when it gets stuffed into my cold, dead hands.

What, you don't want people to discover you bought Kellog's, just like everyone else?

Those cards save people a lot of money-- we shouldn't be discouraging liberals from using them. Republicans certainly will be putting the money into their pockets to send their kids to college with, so those kids can take over the country from your liberal kids while many of you allow your kids to become beat poets and professional spraypaint artists with nary a word of protest corssing your lips.

I am cranky today, so perhaps I am out of line for finding Kevin Drum weird for being hell-bent on not using a grocery card while failing to muster a gram of outrage at immunity for the telecoms' illegal wholesale spying on Americans. (And not able to figure out that it's the Bush administration which really needs that litigation to be halted.)

Our email, phone calls and other communications are fair game, but somebody finding out I like mangoes and mustard greens--damn, that gets my goat!

Cranky and illiterate. That post above reads like it was written by wolves. Pretend I edited it, please.

I'll use a supermarket snooping loyalty card only when it gets stuffed into my cold, dead hands. - Kevin Drum

My brother, in the hardware business, pointed out that the supermarket's primary use of this data is knowing where to send targeted advertisement. Knowing that would allow him to send out fewer mailers to people who never shop at his store.

I do wish for a federal law that require all advertisement to be clearly labelled as such, so I can throw them out quickly. - anon

Given the price of trash handling, and the amount of junk mail out there, I think junk mailers should have to pay for cradle-to-grave handling of their product: they should have to pay local governments some amount to subsidize the removal of the mail by recycling or as trash.

Swan,
I think your meds wore off early today. Please come to the nursing station.

Wapiti: I think junk mailers should have to pay for cradle-to-grave handling of their product

Agreed. And the credit card companies should pay for my shredder, and me for the time I spend shredding crap I didn't ask for.

What, you don't want people to discover you bought Kellog's, just like everyone else?

Those cards save people a lot of money-- we shouldn't be discouraging liberals from using them.
Posted by: Swan

While there is an argument to be made as to whether they save one any money, I look on them as a positive thing. I shop as "green" and as organic as possible. The more people they see buying these kinds of products, the more the supermarket powers that be will understand that there is demand for them.

It's a financial issue, too. Charter is making big bucks off this, but are they paying their L.A. cable subscribers? Are they going to cut their cable bills?

Chances are...

Slim. And. None.

Mellors, don't know what Albertson's you patronize, but here in Dallas, they got rid of shopper cards.

Mellors, don't know what Albertson's you patronize, but here in Dallas, they got rid of shopper cards. Posted by: SocraticGadfly

Albertsons? Who the fuck, outside of small town America, shops at Albertsons?

Jeff II -- The supermarket "powers that be" really don't need these cards to tell whether there is a demand for organic kinds of products. All they have to do is look and see which shelves are empty.

Well, I disagree with one of Kevin's points - there is a good reason for cable cosortiums to keep track of viewer behavior. Advertiser would want to know that stuff, so if ad sales can show how many viewers in a certain cable system tune into and out of a particular program or channel, that would be valuable information.

But I agree that selling this data is a very slippery slope. That is why enacting and enforcing strong privacy laws is crucial.

Jeff II -- The supermarket "powers that be" really don't need these cards to tell whether there is a demand for organic kinds of products. All they have to do is look and see which shelves are empty.
Posted by: jeri

True. And, actually, they don't even need to look at shelves as scanners function as inventory monitors anyway.

But honey, there must be some mistake...I don't even know what channel 'Girls Next Door' is on.

I'm sure they collect it for their "own" analysis (yeah right) - for which stations are likely to be popular or how to and who to target marketing/advertising campaigns. Of course if they can find a way to make money off of it, that is just the icing on the cake and they can recoup the cost of collecting the data and not just charge it off to overhead.

This isn't just about getting names and addresses for mailing labels tagged to other specific information. Their assurances to strip the private data out before selling will make the data a little less valuable because without a certain level of detail on individuals whoever buys the information is going to want to know the specifics of race, geographic detail, age, gender, income, etc. - that's one of the reasons why they are buying the information in the first place!

I fill out the supermarket cards with fake info and pay by cash. I also get a new card with new fake info every once in a while. Works for now.

I don't know that supermarket card data is being abused yet, but look at what analysis of it can show: religion, health status, alt med usage, drinking habits, birth control, general gullibility, # of kids, what activities you do, and some personality/political outlook parameters. Certainly the data is fuzzy, but collected over years it is a gold mine of personal info. Health insurers and nosy employers would love to buy this.

It probably won't be long before soda-pop vending machines start changing their prices during the day depending on the current value of soda pop futures and relative peak demand. The vending machines also might start asking you to complete a survey on a touch screen in exchange for a nickel off the price. It's Catch-22 on steroids.

What's the matter Kevin Drum, are you worried your wife will find out you are renting gay porn movies?

Can you get whores at Albertson's?

If not, I see no reason for concern.

Kevin, I have a name for you:

George P. Burdell

George has done many things in the last 100 or so years, including accrue speeding tickets, obtain drivers licenses, and earn multiple bachelors degrees. There's no reason whatsoever he shouldn't start shopping at a discount at Albertson's, too. Really, just get a card for our friend George.

And if they need an address, anything along the lines of Yellow Jacket Way, or Techwood St. would do just fine.

Don't know much about the "Tart" selection at Albertson's, but, they sell the best tomato juice under their store brand - Plus, they carry more of Plochman's Mustards, you know, the variety used on those great dogs at Wrigley Field. Might even pep up a Mariner Dog.

The best way to get supermarket discounts without disclosing anything is to use the "Enter your phone number" option and put in the main number of a major local employer. Always works for me!

Those "discount cards" aren't saving you a dime. The price you pay with them are the regular price. The price on the self is an inflated price. The "discount cards" allow them to get away with inflating their prices without most consumers realizing it.

Ah, the freak market at work!

Plus, they carry more of Plochman's Mustards, you know, the variety used on those great dogs at Wrigley Field. Might even pep up a Mariner Dog.

I doubt that! Are you still on Plochman's!? That's one of your longer food phases, isn't it?

Speaking of Wrigley Field, SAM ZELL IS DEAD TO ME. We'll talk, my friend. Good to see you.

Go with Directv more for your money than Charter they are outraguoes with their prices and everytime the wind blows you loose cable.

Doc at the Radar Station -- I am sure you are right. And that will be a sad day. I remember hearing anecdotal reports a few years back that Amazon was experimenting with variable pricing on it's web site. Different people visiting the site at roughly the same time were presented with different prices (that didn't change if they returned, so it wasn't random). Not sure what the pricing model was supposed to be or whether they are still at it.

My Albertson's card is registered to "Attila the Hun", no address, no phone. I still get targeted, though. Those instant coupons at checkout remember Attila's favorite cereal.

So how is Charter different from Google, exactly?

I use a loyalty card because it gets me a 15 cent/gallon discount on gas. That's a big deal.

Choices suck.

Easiest solution to avoid your cable system collecting data.....drop your cable system.

I haven't had cable for about three months now since deciding I was spending too much time not really watching but steadily surfing after something of substance and almost never finding it.

I don't miss a thing. I loved Keith O and Bill Moyers....I can get their good stuff and others on line now. I have a LOT more free time.

'Helps my family pay $17,000+ a year in health insurance premiums.'

And helps your health insurance company jack your rates or drop you when your statistical profile indicates the need - oh, let's say because your consumption of a certain product rises in a manner that the health insurance company has found often occurs in your demographic.

This data is not being collected for your benefit - and the price you sell it at is way below market value.

My loyalty/snoop card is registered to my maternal grandfather's ethnic (not American) name at a non-existent address- I get the discount, and the store gets a data error.

I may be in a very tiny minority here, but I for one wish that the cable companies were harvesting all of my viewing data. I've always hated the Nielsen ratings system, if for no other reason than the fact that I've never met anyone who participated in the system. I also have very passionate, but less mainstream viewing tastes, which results in me being extremely pissed when really good shows I like get cancelled due to poor ratings. The thought that always flittered through my head and frustrated me was the fact that my 'voice' is never heard by these shadowy decision-makers known as the ratings. I see no harm in collecting unidentifiable data about what I watch, in fact I welcome it.

The only reason supermarkets like to have shoppers use the card is because they wish they knew the concept of membership clubs when they first started the business.