Tuesday, May 31, 2005

So Raffarin resigned. Why didn't Cirac?

Shouldn't it be deVillepin

I don't like De Villepin, a Chirac crooney.

...Chirac

preview is my friend

*sigh*

So just what was in the proposed EU constitution that the French found so disagreeable?

This is like, well, sort of payback for Chirac being such an ass.

It's kinda nice to see the French people actually thinking for themselves once in awhile.

This guy, villepin. He's an ass. It ain't gonna work.

Clearly, with this appointment, the EU constitution is not dead. Round 2.

Likely to go down well with European allies? I should say. But let's not forget his back-door diplomacy with Arab tyrants.

The French feared having to work harder in the new EU enviroment.

More work = less vacation time.

As for the French vote, I think they voted against the constitution because they don't have all their socialistic perks yet, and they don't want the EU to stop them from getting them.

this doesn't matter - the flushing of chirac and co. only accelerates with this appointment

De Villainpen:

[Link: www.factsofisrael.com...]
[Link: www.ambafrance-uk.org...]
[Link: www.fuckfrance.com...]
[Link: www.sikhnet.com...]
[Link: www.un.int...]

So, I guess the whole counterweight idea is off, eh Chirac?

/gloating laughter

BTW, I haven't heard the term 'anglo-saxon' thrown around by the French government since the Vichy regime in the 1940s. Quite disgusting acutally.

I forgot that they are socialists.

Anyone have a link to the actual text of the constitution?

But let's not forget his back-door diplomacy with Arab tyrants.

What He's been giving the Kings a Heat Seeking Moisture Guided Missle anal Protein Injection?

#8 Gagdad Bob

Likely to go down well with European allies? I should say. But let's not forget his back-door diplomacy with Arab tyrants.

De Villepin (who is a man) is likely to go down well with European allies and go down on Arab allies.

It's nuanced, you see.

#15 donm7007

[Link: europa.eu.int...]

De Vill the hair man 2. Guess he will going girl with his Brit lover (the hair man 1)Galloway.

So goes Europe.

Very non simplese decision. Garazou!

#16 keepandbear

I'd venture a guess that Dominique is catching, not pitching.

Trust me Powderfinger, Arab tyrants don't "catch." That's why Allah made goats and French statesmen.

L'homme sans penis

It's nuanced, you see.

Yea well Powda, I'm oldanced...LOL!

Zoot Allures!

No surprise that the weasel would pick his top brown-noser to be PM.

Maybe there are some sensable fwenchmen left that will kick out the whole lot.

Perhaps not.

I just found out that the EU constitution has a clause prohibiting extradition to any country that might be able to impose a death penalty for that person's crimes.

Meaning that if some terrorist committed a mega-atrocity in the United States, and was detained in the EU, our only recourse would be assassination by force.

Lovely.

#24 BabbaZee

when it comes to the french, it doesn't matter how nuanced they are... it all sounds the same:

"ribbit"

#25 TotallySirius:

Maybe there are some sensable fwenchmen left that will kick out the whole lot.

Another flying-pig moment, brought to you by Kodak.

But seriously, this means nothing.

France, new caretaker, same rotten house.

France and de Villepin deserve each other.
He's the obvious choice.

donm7007:

Read it at your own risk of brain damage. One pundit (I forget the link) described it as a cross between the Berlin telephone directory and the Oracles of Nostradamus.

Seriously, though, I have read the Rights section, and, as the Brits say, they have "got hold of the wrong end of the stick." The EU Constitution grants rights: everything from "dignity" to outplacment services. The US Constitution restricts the Government, using language like "Congress shall make no law..."

#26 really grumpy:

Meaning that if some terrorist committed a mega-atrocity in the United States, and was detained in the EU, our only recourse would be assassination by force.

Or promise the EUroweenies in writing not to execute the guy.

Nudge, nudge,
Wink, wink

So just what was in the proposed EU constitution that the French found so disagreeable?

Apparently they were worried that the EU constitution might subject them to *gasp* free market forces! What about the workers and their "right" to spend 8 weeks out of the year on vacation? Will nobody think of the workers?!

Maybe this summer, grandma will be alive when you frogs get back to town from your month off.

Here's the Canadian equivalent. Lovely slivery mane, boyfriend in Paris (I'm told) and teddibly sphisticated dahling doncha know. I feel privileged to have him represent me to furriners.

I am sure DeVillepin is his croissant-model.

#33 BB:

Don't forget, a major problem for the French was that the 35-hr. work week was not enshrined in the constitution.

Neither was the right to never be fired from a job, no matter the grotesqueness of an employee's incompetence, negligence or general uselessness.

Thus, it fell.

Who the hell do these EUroweenies think they are,'granting rights' to the people?
Don't they realize that governments get their power from and only exist at the suffrance of the people?

EU=European(socialist)Union

#24 Babba

Yea well Powda, I'm oldanced...LOL!

I hear ya. I long for the good old days when you had to go to France for them to surrender to you. Now they deliver.

Tyrants these days don't have the same appreciation for surrender that they did when they had to fight for it.

It's nice to see the French pissing on someone else's leg for a change.

Why does France have a PM and a President?

How does that work?

Times Online (UK) ran a story a few days ago saying Chirac planned to ignore the non vote, and if it didn't look like he could get a majority in a new referendum, try an end run with approval of the EU constitution in the legislature.

Iran Demands Pakistan Head Explain Nuke Remarks

Iran demanded an explanation Sunday from Pakistan over a purported comment by President Pervez Musharraf that Tehran was ``very anxious'' to develop nuclear weapons. In an interview, Musharraf was asked how Iran could be dissuaded from trying to make a nuclear weapon. ``I don't know. They are very anxious to have the bomb,'' he was quoted as responding. Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi told reporters Sunday it was unlikely Musharraf made the comment, but called for an explanation from Islamabad. ``Mr. Musharraf knows better than anybody else that the Islamic Republic of Iran is not after nuclear weapons,'' he said. Musharraf's reported comments are of particular interest because of involvement by the father of Pakistan's atomic bomb, Abdul Qadeer Khan, in providing Iran with centrifuges, a device used to enrich uranhium.

Swedish Help for Iranian Bio-Weapons?

There’s concern that Swedish scientific institutions have been helping Iran develop biological weapons. Swedish Radio News reports that the Swedish Institute for Infectious Disease Control and the Karolinska Institute have been working with the Pasteur Institute in Tehran. According to the report one of their projects involves the deadly CCHF virus, which the National Inspectorate of Strategic Products says can be used as a biological weapon of mass destruction

Islam as preached today:

[Link: www.pmw.org.il...]

#40 Ed

Why does France have a PM and a President?

So they can share the work load - 17.5 hr week.

This EU thing is pretty scary. I feel like I'm watching a slow train wreck. Trains filled with nuclear material and itching powder.

39 Peacekeeper

Your Majesty looks like the Piss-Boy!

/De Money

Even the preamble to the now dead EU constitution is hilarious:

BELIEVING that Europe, reunited after bitter experiences, intends to continue along the path of civilisation, progress and prosperity, for the good of all its inhabitants, including the weakest and most deprived;

Remind me, when was Europe last 'united'?

CONVINCED that, thus ‘United in diversity’ , Europe offers them the best chance of pursuing, with due regard for the rights of each individual and in awareness of their responsibilities towards future generations and the Earth, the great venture which makes of it a special area of human hope,

United in Diversity. What a stupid mission statement. United by Disunity.

Preamble

So when Mahmoud Abbas is flown to Paris for medical treatment after being "stung" by the Mossad, will de Villepin have to explain to Chirac why they can't cure the poison?

He's a man, eh?

hmmmm - something to ponder...

Count De Money: "Sire, the people are revolting!"

King Louis the XVI: "You said it they stink on ice. PULL!"

Let them eat cake!

#49 Dirk Diggler
LOL!

Who the hell do these EUroweenies think they are,'granting rights' to the people?

That's the whole difference between the European mindset and ours. Underlying that attitude is the notion that the people are properly governed by their betters. The real decisions are to be made in Brussels. Local parliaments will be reduced to the status of student councils, deciding such issues as how much crepe paper to decorate the gym with on Prom Night.

Charles:

Anti-American politician Dominique de Villepin (who is a man)

You sure about that? Personally, I think he isn't. Any man that successful at the Eurocrat game surely doesn't possess a set of cajones.

Besides the obvious pleasure to be taken in the rejection of Jacques Chirac's bid to become the President of Europe, I think it's hilarious that the French rejected a Constitution that granted them the EU equivalent of "most Favored Nation" status (along with the Germans). If they think they could come out of this any better off than they would have under this blueprint, they are delusional.

Normally, I would say they have "cut off their nose to spite their face", but the Gallic nezwould benefit from rhinoplasty, non?

The flag of the Union shall be a circle of twelve golden stars on a blue background.

The anthem of the Union shall be based on the ‘Ode to Joy’ from the Ninth Symphony by Ludwig van Beethoven

The motto of the Union shall be: ‘United in diversity’.

The Constitution and law adopted by the institutions of the Union in exercising competences conferred on it shall have primacy over the law of the Member States.

LOL - I'm surprised anyone would vote for it.

Just scrap everything but the free trade agreement and these Europeans could be on to something.

For me this is great news. The prospect of the demise of the amoral Euro-government with its built in targeting of Israel as its first and only international policy gives hope to any who want the nations of Europe to exist as free peoples.

The EU constitution is not a document of liberty; it is a document of capitulation.

"This European Union, how many disvisions does it have?"- channeling and praphrasing J.V. Stalin

#54 Smit

that's because you're an evil capitalist... probably wear a top hat and push lackeys around.

the gloriousness of "IngSoc" will overcome!

< /EU or 1984 mentality>

seriously... why not just name themselves Oceania.

#24 Babba Zee

They maybe nuanced.

But I'm ordananced.

# 46

Well, you might as well say the same thing about the United States' original motto:

E Pluribus Unum

"Out of Many, One."

However, I think when adopting that motto there was a basic understanding that you have to have a shared "core" culture and shared values (not to mention a commitment to democratic principles)for a country to operate relatively smoothly. Diversity is supposed to be the icing on the cake, not the moist center. Thus, public schools which used to educate our children in how to be Americans.

Ode to Joy? ROTFL!

Okay, would someone please explain something to me? I heard that all 25 member countries "must" approve of the EU COnstitution. (Or what happens?) Since the Dutch (?) are scheduled to vote this week, and not likely to approve (and will the British actually go for this?!) what would be the point of the French bypassing the people and passing it through the Legislature?

#58 tigger

but when the word "diversity" comes up, it doesn't mean an acceptance of different people striving for one consolidated goal...

it means "Free to be you, Free to be me. Unless you're a white straight male, you can be anything you want."

KeepandBear

De-Monet, De-Monet.

Well, speaking about how many divisions the EU has, I think that is one of its reasons for being.

France, and maybe Germany, while having only modest sized armed forces that they don't spend much money on (although France does, unfortunately, have nuclear weapons), by controlling the EU, will control the combined armed forces of the EU states, including (they hope) the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force if they can get the Bristish public to swallow the bait.

#58 tigger2005 - I think we both mean the same thing.

E Pluribus Unum = "Out of Many, One."
I take that to imply many people from different nations & cultures become one. American.

United in diversity - implies no action taken to meld into a stronger, unified whole.

#59 littleoldlady - Hiya! - Apparently the constitution has to be ratified by all member states or else it can't be adopted as the European Constitution.
Some nations are having a referendum on it, some nations (like Italy) are merely debating it in the national parliament and passing it as law.
Chirac is exploring if the referendum he just had is binding, or if he can simply reccomend the constitution to the French Parliament & ignor the vote of the people.

# 58

Well, there's also that "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" thing. So, within reasonable limits, I don't have any problem with the "free to be you, free to be me ... you can be anything you want" thing either, although it definitely should apply to white straight males as well. I think the U.S. was certainly conceived as a nation where individuals could strive for happiness and fulfillment each in their own way, so long as they understood that such (previously unheard of in human history) liberty also conferred profound OBLIGATIONS ... such as respecting the law, respecting the (reasonable) will of the majority, participating in or at least honoring the democratic process, and contributing to the defense of the nation and its principles.

#46 Smit:

United in Diversity. What a stupid mission statement. United by Disunity.

Compare that to "E Pluribus Unum", or, "From Many, One", roughly, which is the US motto.

Of course, you know which is my fave Latin motto, LOL!

#63 Smit

Chirac is exploring if the referendum he just had is binding, or if he can simply reccomend the constitution to the French Parliament & ignor the vote of the people.

So right off the bat it's obvious what the EU/French definition of "democracy" is.

What's your take on what will happen in Britain? Are they planning a referendum too?

#65 Golden Jerusalem - Audere Est Facere - all the way mate!

donm7007--

The EU constitution mandates "borderless states", with free flow of workers from one to another.

So in France, this comes down to the issue of the "Polish plumber"--the foreign man who will come and fix your plumbing for a fraction of what the French plumber works for.
French workers don't want to be replaced by cheaper imports.

In Holland, the fear is that the Turks will be admitted to Europe. Turkey will then be the most populous country--and it will have a proportionate share of influence.

So the question of immigration to Holland will be decided by foreigners, not Dutchmen--and the largest majority of those foreigners will be Muslim.

Is that really what the Dutch want at this point?

Shouldn't it be united in duplicity?

our only recourse would be assassination by force.

I'm not against this method, should it become necessary.

#66 littleoldlady - Yes there was a big kerfuffle in Britain when the constitution was first discussed. Almost everybody hated the idea of it, Tony Blair could only quite the storm by promising a referendum.

Of course now that the french & possibly the Dutch have rejected it, he is saying we might not have to have one if the Constitution is going to be renegotiated.

I would be surprised if Britain ever accepted this. We still haven't joined the Euro...

Maybe what the White House ought to do is appoint John Bolton Ambassador to France instead of to the UN. If ya can't piss off the rest of the planet at once, hell let's start with the Frogs and work our way up the food chain!

#64 tigger

but "free to be you, free to be me" mostly used by hippies and the EU mentality, implies that there are no consequences for actions, no obligations to anything greater than one's own lustful desires of apathy, selfishness, and other lazy ideals.

it gives the idea that you can do anything you want, and everyone else has to accept it. which isn't reality.

You CAN deal cocaine on the street corner, yes. but there are legal consequences of doing so.

the "free to be you" people would shun such consequences.

be they legal, social, or moral.

#71 Smit

Thanks!

I'm very provincial, you know. (They never let me out of here ;-) I'm trying to imagine something like this going on in the U.S. and having a darn hard time of it. It's so...so...well, foreign!

;-)

# 64

True, but as you can see from reading all of my posts, I am certainly not endorsing that interpretation of the phrase. Should we avoid using ALL the words and phrases that the hippies use? In that case, we can't say "peace" anymore. :-)

So, like an outbreak of herpes, Villepin returns.

#75 tigger

the 'interpretation' you might give has nothing to do with what it actually means.

the liberal mentality involved in that mode of thinking engaged in by the EU is one of no consequences for your actions. Which, by pattern of history, will lead to laws for everything, which will restrict all action.

so what is it you are supporting?

zut alors indeed, if Chirac were a man of principle, please, whilst I ROFLMAO, I'm done now, he would resign but he has to stay in office to avoid jail time

I'd love to see Chirac try to impose the EU constitution on the people of France, they will actually riot......

oh I so hope Chirac loses in the next election, I thought I heard either this Sarkozy guy or someone else in Chirac's party was going to replace Chirac or that Chirac has some real competition this time, I mean presumable Chirac's party can have a leadership review

#55 in other words they should have left the old European Community set up stand and not bother with this other nonsense

I remember the Dutch and the Swiss were infuriated because Brussels was going to dictate what was chocolate, when the EU first about......have the Dutch voted yet?

let's see if this was a Bush appointment..the MSM would say we hadn't given the world street a right to comment on the appointment..and we hadn't checked with world leaders in advance..what do they say about this A**hole in France......crickets chirping

EU - United in Stupidity

interesting, you mean Chirac doesn't lead by polls?

Polling Data

If incumbent Jean-Pierre Raffarin is sacked following France’s rejection of the European Constitution, who would you prefer as prime minister?

Nicolas Sarkozy
25%

Michčle Alliot-Marie
13%

Dominique de Villepin
11%

[Link: www.angus-reid.com...]

#79 wannabe -

I remember the Dutch and the Swiss were infuriated because Brussels was going to dictate what was chocolate

Actually the Belgians & the Swiss wanted the EU to legislate what chocolate actually was. They wanted the cocoa butter content to be higher than is standard in e.g. Cadburys chocolate, which uses vegetable fat. IIRC they wanted British chocolate to be called Vegelate. - But maybe I read too much of the Daily Mail at that time.

The Dutch haven't voted yet.

Sweet victory for UK chocolate

During the 27-year history of the dispute some of the best brains in Brussels and EU member states have spent time grappling with questions such as whether chocolate containing vegetable fat is worthy of the name chocolate.

And successive British governments have had to fend off attempts to label the British product as 'vegelate' - and even attempts to ban it altogether.

Chirac may ignore the results of a referendum?

Chirac would imitate Ariel Sharon!

C'est a rire.

The "(who is a man)" reference cracks me up every time.

#15 donm7007

Unless you three years old, you don't hav enough time remaining in your life to read the d*mn thing. It has 440+ articles and runs to several hundred pages.

Its only slightly smaller, and somewhat less intelligible, than the Internal Revenue Code :-0

I knew a Belgian designer, Rainier. He was all upset about the EU at the beginning. He said in the USA if you want to open up a
chocolate shop, you get a couple of business licences, health permit, a pot, some sugar and cocoa, some butter and a stove.
In the Eu, they give you a document of 100 pages....
He said they will never be the UNited States of Europe. The EU is about control and the USA is about liberty and freedom and
potential.

Pointedly obvious attempts to extend the American English alphabet from its current 26 letters to one more closely resembling unicode for internet communications is another "multiculti" agenda that would be proudly and enthusiastically endorsed by the EU.

Our language has a trimmed down set of characters for exactly one reason: that multiculturalism is NOT in our national interest of a culture of diversity within a framework of unity.

In my city, the worst-performing middle school by far is one that has by far the highest concentration of students who are either non-citizens of the United States, or first generation Americans whose parents speak a foreign language, primarily latin-based.

The theory for throwing together all of the students for whom English is a second language is ostensibly to allow concentration of resources and programs to assimilate these students into our culture, but I have a different perspective. When you are primarily educated in the language of your nation of heritage, rather than ours, you will NOT assimilate, and instead the languishment of these citizens will be perpetuated by this multicultural lack of assimilation.

While they are taught part of the day in English, when the final bell rings, they walk home from school or catch the bus with their same-language friends, and probably speak little or no English until they show up for class the next day. By concentrating these students in a "hideaway" school (which conveniently keeps them away from the schools of the advantaged), they ensure the maximum likelihood that these children will join the other similar students across the nation in dropping out of education, usually at a very young age. This self-perpetuates poverty and underachievement, and much-below optimum utilization of their true abilities within our society; and thus extends and preserves a caste system in which these now pervasive attitudes have been allowed to become institutions within our society.

Very sad truth about the reality of multiculturalism: grounded in class distinctions and racism, all so very Euro.

#35 greenmamba
Might DeVillepin be his "very close friend?" {wink wink, nudge nudge} There is no evidence that it didn't happen. /Newsweak

Need another reason to hate the poodle-diddling mimes? How about this: France ready to help Libya with nuclear program.

# 77

Obviously, you did not read all of my posts in this thread, or you would know what I support.

And I'm afraid interpretations are, indeed, important.

"Peace" has many different interpretations, for example. When I say "peace," I do not mean peace as "hippies" mean it, which is "peace at any price, war is harmful to children and other living things and should never be engaged in for any reason, and not only that, if the U.S. would just give up all its weapons the world would have peace and puppies." I'm sure that when you say "peace," you do not mean this either. Yet it is the same word the hippies use. Obviously, it has different meanings and definitions, and I think you'd have a hard time getting even people of the same political persuasion to come up with just one definition for "peace."

I often see folks on LGF asking why Muslims can't adopt the "live and let live" attitude we in the West have toward, for example, religious beliefs. "Live and let live" sounds quite close to "free to be you, free to be me." Yet, obviously, we on LGF don't mean "Live and let live, no matter what" when we say that. We know that there are limits to what we can "live and let live." But we can't write a treatise on what we mean by every word and phrase we use, or communication would be impossible. So we use shorthand. We assume that others on LGF will know what we've left unspoken, but if someone misinterprets what we say, then we clarify.

As I'm trying to do. :-)

#85 Mike in Boulder

I note the clarification is omitted in Chirac's case.

#91 tigger

"Live and let live" sounds quite close to "free to be you, free to be me."

Nope.

one implies the ability of people to co-exist. the other implies the ability to live in anarchy.

if one can't see the obvious difference, one needs to remove rose-colored glasses.

The phrase "Out of many, One" states that many different backgrounds became one in America. They became Americans.

the EU phrase of "United in Diversity" states that from One (European) comes Many.

they are polar opposites. the American statement is one of responsibility, development and nationalistic solidarity.

the EU phrase is one of Consequence Free Lifestyles.

This is also the goal of many who 'fight' for 'gay rights' (which in America merely means the ability to marry one another, as they are totally allowed to go off and be gay already.) and 'minority rights' (as America is one of the FEW countries that protects minorities, giving them the same chance at success as anyone.)

Every word in english as a specific meaning. te whole 'gray area' people like to put in the english language actually shows a lack of knowledge of the specific word needed.

#83 thanks for setting me straight, hmmm Cadbury chocolate, good stuff, we're Dutch background but we were raised on Cadbury, LOL

I just remember thinking, bureaucrats trying to spoil chocolate, so sad

actually my father left Holland in 1952 because he could see the writing in the wall then for example, besides the fact Canada has so much more land, the bureaucracy involved in the house building business in Holland, before the EU, was so pathetic and cumbersome, there is no way my father could have made the kind of money he has here in Canada and we bitch about the fact the bureaucracy here puts up more hoops every year....between all levels of government, my father is retiring at the right time.....

in Holland it take two years to get a building permit, you have to erect stakes showing the height lines of the house so all the neighbours can complain your proposed house is ruining their view or their light...

in Canada it takes about two years to get a subdivision approved, and that's too long by our books, and a couple of weeks to get a building permit

Some predicted that France would soon be like 80s Lebanon or 90s Yougoslavia. Well it looks like it's ont its way in Perpignan (middle size town near the spanish border).

account from a local resident

de Villepin (who is a worm) treachery:

For Secretary of State Colin Powell, the U.S.-French divorce began on Jan. 20, 2003, when French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin blindsided him during a press conference outside the U.N.

After a special session of the Security Council devoted to the war on terror, held at de Villepin's personal request, Powell had driven over to the French U.N. ambassador's official Park Avenue residence, where de Villepin was to host him to an exclusive lunch.

Instead, de Villepin stayed behind at the U.N. and announced to the world that France would never support a U.S.-led military intervention against Saddam Hussein. As Powell saw the man he thought was his friend appear on the video monitors in the French ambassador's residence his jaws dropped, says his deputy and confidant, Richard Armitage.

#96 Doss

I thought I remembered something about that when I heard this dink's name.

maybe we should do the same...

have a meeting at his house. then launch a strike on france.

"ribbit"

There’s actually is another much more economic laissez-faire minded and Anglo-Saxon positive politician called Nicolas Sarkozy which would have been a much more ideal choice, since he is also very much more popular amongst the French – but Chirac don’t like him and he is a direct threat to him or his chosen successor in the next presidential election, and Chirac sees Dominique de Villepin as the son he never had, so I guess he went with the worse choice. But perhaps it’s all for the best. Since apparently the French Prime Minister position is a political Valhalla mission. Many promising politicians had their political future ruined after a short time in the hot seat. Now with the German election next autumn likely to replace the vile Shroeder with the much more agreeable Angela Merkel, and Chirac with the much more agreeable Nicolas Sarkozy in 2007. Things are looking up a bit.

# 93

I see we'll have to agree to disagree. I haven't seen any book that says, "live and let live" strictly implies the ability to coexist, and "free to be you, free to be me" strictly implies anarchy. When people on LGF say "live and let live," they obviously don't mean "live and let live" EVERYTHING, yet someone else could say the exact same thing and mean precisely that--live and let live, with no limits.

As for "free to be you, free to be me," one can certainly use that phrase in a perfectly innocent manner, without any intent of endorsing anarchy. One can be referring only to freedom to pursue positive, constructive activities and forms of expression, and not be trying to say, "It's OK to be a pedophile or deal drugs!"

I'm sorry--while I don't believe words and phrases can mean ANYTHING we want them to mean, I also don't think language is quite as precise and exact as you would like it to be. Sometimes we do need to further explain ourselves.

#96 lancekates
This was the first time I remember reading a "play-by-play" of the back-stabbing in such detail. The move by de Villepin in telling Powell to meet at deV's house for a private lunch, and then using that time to announce that France wouldn't back the US: I just shake my head in bewilderment at such arrogance. It appears that deV tried to humiliate Powell as much as possible by having Powell cool his heels in de Villepin's own f'ing house while deV held a press conference.

#99 tigger2005

Which is why all the REALLY good bumper-stickers are already taken :-)

#99 tiger2005

well, if you need to see it in a book to believe it, who do you consider a credible source?

I have it published, but you wouldn't believe it if *I* wrote it...

#100 Doss

well, that's why I've no problem referring to them as frogs, nor do I have a problem STILL calling them "Freedom Fries" (though it does confuse the people at McDonalds and Sonic)

#100 Doss
Powell SHOULD have told the French Ambassador that he and Armitage were going to have lunch down in Little Italy --- maybe they could find a Mafia Don to dine with, at least when they give their word they stick with it.

#98 so can we contribute to Mr. Sarkozy's campaign, esp if he takes on Chirac directly, LOL

#103 lancekates
I've never been down with the whole "Freedom Fries" thing. It just seems a ltttle trite, and you always hear liberals use the issue when debating in order to try to make disgust with the French sound like it's based on irrationality (like renaming French fries) rather than on facts (like the story of deV's treachery).
My term for the French which never has caught on is "poodle-diddling mimes."

#104 John Steele
Heh. The French: Less Trustworthy than the Mob.

#106 Doss

It just seems a ltttle trite, and you always hear liberals use the issue when debating in order to try to make disgust with the French sound like it's based on irrationality (like renaming French fries)

it is VERY trite and VERY irrational.

but the french are also VERY silly.

though I do like the French from the Monty Python Holy Grail movie, and Pepe LePeu (sp?)

Though, I do it more for the chuckle I get out of it, then any REAL dislike for anyone. i'm too lazy to hold a grudge.

Saw this guy swanning past the cameras on his way to a meeting with Chirac and later on his way out again. This is a guy who's never met a camera he didn't like.

I believe the Europeans are stuck in an aristocratic feudal caste-system mentality.

The Europeans with enough sense to desire freedom,who believed nobody was better than anyone else,who were not content to be sheep blindly following their "betters" all moved to America long ago.The genepool was made shallower by the power wars of the 18th,19th and 20th centuries.Now all that is left is people mostly predisposed to serfdom.

No wonder they are bending over for the moslems.

#26 really grumpy big dog Johnson 5/31/2005 07:15AM PDT
I just found out that the EU constitution has a clause prohibiting extradition to any country that might be able to impose a death penalty for that person's crimes.

Meaning that if some terrorist committed a mega-atrocity in the United States, and was detained in the EU, our only recourse would be assassination by force.

Lovely.

That's already the case in almost all European countries, now. Has been for quite a while.

#108 lancekates

though I do like the French from the Monty Python Holy Grail movie, and Pepe LePeu (sp?)

Yeah, it's a shame that the French had to be such back-stabbers that I'll never step foot in that country (unless they changed dramatically, which ain't happnin') and I really like architecture and would love to see Paris. The problem isn't France, it's all the damn Frenchmen living there.

Totally Sirius:

That's an interesting point. Their history has generally been one of autocracy and dependency on the government. It would explain why they are so accepting, nay insistent, on socialist systems of serfdom. It would also explain why, as you pointed out, totalitarianism (such as that which would come through Islamicization and imposition of sharia) isn't as frightening a prospect as it is to Americans.

#112 Doss

Well, if its just the frenchmen/women living there, that's no problem.

See, the US used to be filled with american indians (of which i am one)

now is full of Americans.

see? no problem ;-)

we'll just have a migration. LLL's first.

#112 Doss

There's a simple solution. Take the chunnel from the UK to Calais, and the bullet train to Paris. Take the metro to the Champs d'Lysee, See the Louvre, walk to the Arc d'Triumphe, take a cab to the Eiffel Tower, get back on the metro and go to Montmarte, take the metro to the bullet train, the bullet train to Calais, and the chunnel to England. If you've done the Louvre, the Champs d'Lysee, the Eiffel Tower, and Montmarte, you've seen everything in Paris worth seeing. If you pack a lunch and dinner in a backpack, you won't leave a penny in France when you leave.

#113 Bunker Buster

Exactly,their history points directly to my hypothesis(although I am probably not the first),thank you.

Children have the future, right?

Traditionally one day before an election takes place in Holland schoolchildren take part in their own version of the event.

Today 50,000 schoolchildren participated of which 70% voted against the EU constitution, 30% in favour.

They probably haven't watched the state propaganda broadcasts enough thanks to the Internet.

I thought I was watching a pro-EU TV programme by a political party when the state's NO(vo)S(ti) news show continued with regular items such as court cases and unfortuynate accidents. Novosti, Pravda and Izvestia: alive and kicking in the Netherlands, payed by the Dutch taxpayer.

Let's see if tomorrow Dutch grownups can twist the knife in the EU body politic in the same numbers as the children did today.

#112 Doss

As a correction to my #115:

If you pack a lunch and dinner in a backpack, you won't leave a penny in France when you leave, except cab fare and train fare.

Vile-lipin's hero is Napoleon. Wonderful - his hero started a war that killed 4 million people, united all of Europe against him, and he wasn't even French.

What a dingbat!

I just read in the news that the french may put off doing anything about the EU constitution until after the 2007 elections. Chirac almost undoubtedly won't be re-elected (particularly when so many french know he'll be indicted for corruption as soon as he leaves office. They'll vote him out just to see him go to jail).

With the anti-Chirac crowd mollified a bit, the french have a chance of ratifying the EU constitution in some kind of "do-over" by another referendum or through a vote by their parliament.

#110 Totally Sirius

I think you're right. Also, with the Muslim demographic onslaught coming, increasing violence and a stagnant economy, educated Frenchmen with any remaining brain cells will probably bolt to the U.S.

Question is, will we let them in?

#118 not just neo consevative

If you pack a lunch and dinner in a backpack, you won't leave a penny in France when you leave, except cab fare and train fare.

I don't know if I even want to give them cab and train fare.

Vile-lipin should be worried. Wimps like him are easily tossed under the bus when politics go bad in France.

Ask Raffarin.

Now for the Singing Nun:

Dominique, nique, nique
S'en allait tout simplement
Routier, pauvre et chantant
En tout chemin, en tout lieu
Il ne parle que du Bon Dieu
Il ne parle que du Bon Dieu

New Mark Steyn. Europe is an indulgence we can't afford.

For all of you who don't live in France, a few comments:
a- the constitution was rejected by a wide spectrum of people, ranging from the far right to the far left. They obviously did vote 'no' for very different (and usually opposite ) reasons. For example, the french communist party thought it would be too liberal, the far right too social anti nationalist. On top of it, the constitution was utterly impossible to understand, even for the few who had the courage to read this 800+ pages long piece of drekk. So, I do not think the French vote reflects anything but the simple fact that people resented and distrusted something they did not understand. Most of them followed what they were told by their political parties, although there was some internecine dissent.
b- Sarkozy is very popular at the moment because he talks frankly and usually does what he says and French people are fed up with their elites who have been bullshitting them from times immemorial. However, Sarko's aim is the presidency in 2007, and becoming the next premier would have proven a very stupid tactical choice (prime ministers are usually hated by the people within a couple of years)
c- as to de Villepin (yuck!), he pretty much shares the opinion of Chirac's. Anti Americanism, pro Arabism, and an unavowed dream of restoring France's glorious past and influence. The French politicians long for a powerful Europe, led by France, that could oppose the US power. I can understand his choice as a prime minister (from Chirac's point of view) although he represents the prototypical type of the French elite that many French are likely to distrust.
d- the French are sensing something is going wrong in their country, although most of them still don't have a clue about what it precisely is. Too much brainwashing by the elites.

A cheesy appointment, of course!

Both France and Germany need their own versions of Margaret Thatcher.

Let the french suffer. They deserve it. Just enjoy the spectacle.

French on French violence! pull up a chair and watch the show. When Chirac gets sent to jail, he'll get done to him what he has been trying to do to the US for the last few years. BOHICA or NORWICH

Get a load of this hypocrisy:

To "de" or not to "de"

Anti-American politician Dominique de Villepin (who is a man)

Correction :
Anti-American politician Dominique de Villepin (who is a girlie-man)

Excuse my silliness for a moment:

Dumbinique
Dummynique

de

Villain
Vile-pain

or, as Colin Powell probably refers to him:

"Arrogant Backstabbing Son-of-a-Bitch Liar"