"These are sad days man, sad days; it's just … surreal." Six months ago Lethal Bizzle and I had talked about how grime had exploded into the political sphere, soundtracking the winter's youth and student protests in London, but now the 28-year old rapper is much less upbeat, surveying the wreckage in the city he loves. "Watching it on TV's been even worse – it doesn't even feel like it's London, or Britain – it doesn't seem real. You know when you see Iraq, foreign wars on TV…" he tails off, before reflecting on the Walthamstow in which he grew up. "I care because I'm from these places, and I know what happens. I've been through stuff I wouldn't want my kids, my friends, my fans, anyone to go through. It makes you feel lost, like you're in a corner."
Two decades ago Chuck D famously described rap music as "the black CNN" – a means of describing the kind of daily lives which the real news network would never care to investigate; by this token, grime and UK rap is the BBC News 24 of the British urban working-class – not necessarily black, not necessarily young, but mostly so. As the glaziers and magistrates go to work after four nights of riots across London and the UK, the search for understanding and the finger of blame are simultaneously pointing towards the MCs and rappers who Bizzle told me in January were "the real prime ministers of this country".
Grime describes the world politicians of all parties have ignored – its misery (eg Dizzee Rascal's Sitting Here), its volatile energy (Lethal Bizzle's Pow), its gleeful rowdiness (Mr Wong's Orchestra Boroughs), its self-knowledge (Wiley's Oxford Street), its local pride (Southside Allstars' Southside Run Tings), down even to minor specifics. When some Londoners expressed their surprise and admiration at the quasi-vigilantism of "Turksec" in Dalston and Hackney, the north London Turkish community who fought off looters with a mixture of togetherness and baseball bats, most grime fans' first thought was Wiley's offhand lyric: "I had this Turkish bredrin from school, all his family were gangsters."
So what are the grime MCs saying now? In the era of frenetic 24-hour news, live-blogging and Twitter, the response has been quick, honest and instinctive. I was initially directed to Tottenham on Saturday evening after seeing a tweet from Wretch 32 that enigmatically read: "Wish I was there. If you know u know." It didn't take long to work out where, and what, he was referring to. His fellow MCs Skepta and Chipmunk, all from Tottenham, had already posted RIP messages in memory of Mark Duggan. Another leading Tottenham MC, Scorcher, tweeted that Saturday night: "25 years ago police killed my grandma in her house in Tottenham and the whole ends rioted, 25 years on and they're still keepin up fuckry"; it was the death of his grandmother Cynthia Jarrett, who died of a stroke following a police raid on her home, which sparked the Broadwater Farm riots of 1985 (Scorcher was born the following year). In a tweet, Scorcher commended well-known community activist Stafford Scott for "talking up the tings like a bludclart general" on the news.
Some artists were reluctant to speak out at length, posting either short messages on Twitter that carefully balanced support for young people and condemnation for the rioters, or publicising initiatives helping people who suffered in the looting and arson. Their reticence has drawn ire from other musicians, such as DJ Calvin Harris, who seemed to think the urban music scene should be making some kind of joint public appeal for calm in London's inner cities: these "role models", he tweeted, "need to speak the fuck up [and] help stop this".
Many of them have – and their words offer far more insight than most of the hand-wringing currently going on in Britain's desperately limited "public debate". The one key difference between the fulminations of politicians and media commentators, and people who live in the middle of riot-affected areas, was the lack of surprise. Everyone in the UK was shocked, but not everyone was surprised – this latter category seems to apply to Britain's urban stars, as well as young people I talked to on the streets of Tottenham on Saturday, as a double-decker bus burned in the background. "It's not just happened out of the blue," says Bizzle. "The kids have seen the opportunity to take the piss now – because they feel like they've been taken the piss out of their whole lives – but it's been going on for years."
For Professor Green, a top 10 artist, like Chipmunk and Wretch, and one of the MCs who has been most eager to illuminate the causes of the riots, it's a story of a country that has elected to forget about many of its young people. "What needs to be understood here is there is a lot of anger in the underclass, and a lot of the youth aren't quite sure where to aim their anger," he told me by email. "There are also a lot of underprivileged children who've grown up without boundaries, without the love, care and education a child should have. We grow up with less than most, but at the same time have everything we don't have rubbed in our faces; we're desensitised to drug dealing, drug taking, stealing and violence from the moment we are allowed out to play, as it exists on our doorsteps."
This idea of a country of divided cities is one that resonates for Bizzle, too. "People come to central London and think 'Oh this is a lovely place', but you go a couple of miles down the road and you see what's going on. London is not a happy place, and the world can see that now. Robbery. Arson. Theft. Murder: it's been going on for years, but the government's been looking the other way. I see the riots and looting as young people thinking 'we've got an opportunity to answer back to the government', even though it's the wrong way to do it – because it's not harming them, it's harming innocent people. But I think they're just frustrated, trying to be heard."
They're not the only ones – Bizzle has put his message directly to David Cameron before, and feels his warnings went unheeded. In 2006 he wrote an article for the Guardian calling him a "donut", for blaming knife crime on the influence of rap. "I read that article again for the first time in a while yesterday," he tells me. "If [Cameron] had paid attention to what I said, it would have been a whole different story right now. Because what I said was 'if you don't pay attention to the youth, it's going to get silly' – and look what's happening!" He cites his own song, Babylon's Burning the Ghetto, as an example of a record that carried a message. "I was saying this five years ago. They have to take us seriously, because we've got more influence and more input on the youth than they have." It will come as little surprise that he wasn't impressed with Cameron's holiday in Tuscany. "Your country's burning down, and you're in fucking Italy drinking tea, and eating croissants – for three days!" He pauses for breath, calms down. "But then the Conservatives have never cared about working-class people." His main accusation is one of wilful neglect. As he says in his song You'll Get Wrapped, speaking to the same "donuts" in parliament: "Have you been to where we live? Have you been to society? You can't point your fingers if you don't know what you're talking about".
For Professor Green, there's the same mixture of affection for his city and a sense of its challenges if you're not one of the lucky ones. "London is a wonderful place to grow up," he says. "The fact it's multicultural, the fact we aren't segregated, there's a lot of good that comes from this. The other side to it, is that for many people it is a tough and cold place to grow up. As a kid on Northwold Estate [in Hackney], for the most part we had to make our own fun. Nobody had much, and the olders we looked up to and spent time under the wings of were already some way involved in what most of us youngers one day would be. A lot of people went home to a less than ideal familial situation and there wasn't any avenue to voice the frustration born from this."
If it needs spelling out, no one has drawn pleasure from the riots. Professor Green sums up the mood: "To see the city I know and love in so much pain and despair is incredibly saddening. It's not really something that can be put into words." And yet, in remarkably speedy "breaking news" style, Britain's MCs and rappers are putting it into words – already. When I speak to Bizzle, he predicts "riot music" will soon be on its way, responding to what's happening. By the following morning, it's arrived. In only two days we have had Genesis Elijah's raw, captivating a cappella UK Riots: "We all came together last night/ for that, I'm grateful – maybe we'll call that a breakthrough." Bashy and Ed Sheeran's Angels Can't Fly seems a bit rushed, but then it presumably was, and features Bashy's usual thoughtful style: "Where I'm from, you don't see angels, man just see rainfall/ Slip and you could get a brain-full." Reveal's I Predict a Riot, with crushing inevitability, samples Kaiser Chiefs, but is otherwise powerful: "How many youths," he asks, "are in this to make a difference?" Meanwhile dancehall artist Fresharda's response, Tottenham Riot, calls for "more ghetto yout' [who] stand firm and stay strong/ planning dem future in education".
The most extraordinary of the bunch is also the most full-on. They Will Not Control Us, a snarling litany of dispossesion and rage against politicians, police and the media, will be a bit strong for some stomachs – and not only because of the wailing chorus lifted from the Muse track Uprising. By a little-known rapper called 2 K Olderz, it's nothing if not direct. "Dear Mr Prime Minister …" it begins, "was you travelling on London transport the day the bombs went off?/ How about you go and pay rent to the landlord, earn shit money doing a labouring job?/ We're living like shit in this country, while you've got your feet up living nice and comfy/ Well we know where the problem is, the people acknowledge this: stand up to the politics."
Talking about firing RPGs at parliament is not what you could call a constructive political response, but it would be ridiculous to say the song is not explicitly political – in its broad-ranging, nihilistic anger against all authority. While the nexus of the two may be contemptible, politics and criminality are not mutually exclusive: as one infamous Blackberry message stated: "Fuck the feds we will send them back with OUR riot … we don't need pussyhole feds to run the streets and put our brothers in jail so tool up, it's a free world so have fun running wild shopping."
It's a sensibility that arguably chimes with the bleak amorality of what's known as "road rap" – as opposed to grime, or UK hip-hop, all of which have distinct styles, musically and lyrically. Road rap is the scene that gave rise to Giggs, now signed to XL Recordings, and has flourished at street level via YouTube videos and CD "mixtapes" in places such as Peckham, Brixton and Hackney. It's relentlessly nihilistic, in a way that grime, with its roots in UK garage clubs, and lyrical contrasts between aggression and more witty, playful tracks about partying and relationships, never has been. On the classic track that brought Giggs to a wider audience, generally known simply as Track 9 freestyle, he describes a world in which "everyone's suit [is] the same colour as Batman's". It's an underground scene often believed to overlap with street-gang culture and so-called postcode wars.
"Harming one's own community is entirely mindless, but why would someone care for a community that doesn't care for him?" says Professor Green. So is it political? "They might think of this as an uprising, but the anger is misdirected and conveyed in such a way will not have any kind of positive effect. There isn't much sense to any of it."
If the mentality of some of the young rioters and looters is directed against authority figures, then despite what Calvin Harris might suggest, that includes their "role models" too. Wiley, widely considered the godfather of grime, speaking on the phone from a recording studio in Jamaica, where he is working on his new album, expressed a mixture of empathy and hopelessness.
"These kids won't listen to me. I wish they would, but they won't," he says wearily. "In London, they love you so much, but they can hate you in a click of the fingers. If I went down to the streets of Woolwich, to tell these kids to stop, and if they saw Wiley out on the streets right now … I'm like Jesus in this situation! If I was out there, they'd all be trying to crucify me, so they could say 'yes, we got Wiley!'.
"It could be 50 Cent, it could be P Diddy, it does not matter," he continues. "The way the kids see it, everyone in this stupid world is out for themselves, even the parents, and everyone just wants to have everything. I don't even think they're doing it because they want money, they're doing it just because they want to run the place."
So is this about trying to get a feeling of power?
"I hope it doesn't give them a feeling of power, because causing mayhem like that does not mean you're powerful. If the Queen does actually get serious and says right, army, go and lick down anyone who's not white who you think is causing a problem, and people start getting shot … these kids feel like they're ready to go against Robocop. They're testing the patience of the Queen, the government, the police. They're saying 'we're going to do what we want!' – and I'm thinking 'no you're not, because when the police get a grip on it, you're going to be either banged up, or dead'."
With the inevitable nationwide hunt for scapegoats, the articles blaming rap for its violence and promotion of a culture of entitlement are already arriving; as if this music was the only manifestation of aggression and rampant consumerism in western society. First among the self-appointed experts in the relationship between black culture and recent events, Paul Routledge, writing in the Mirror, blamed "the pernicious culture of hatred around rap music, which glorifies violence and loathing of authority (especially the police but including parents), [and] exalts trashy materialism and raves about drugs". At least Marge Simpson had the wit to criticise it for "encouraging punching, boastfulness, and rudeness to hoes" when she banned Bart from going to a rap concert.
More seriously, the steadfast refusal to understand, or accept the reality of inequality, underscores all of these criticisms: they have an "irrational anger against the world", wrote Routledge. David Goodhart in Prospect referred to the "nihilistic grievance culture of the black inner city, fanned by parts of the hip-hop/rap scene and copied by many white people", centred on "mainly unjustified" disaffection. "It's as if the routine brutalities and racist humiliations of 30 to 40 years ago have been lovingly preserved," he continued. According to Graeme Archer in the Telegraph, the young people of London's inner cities "speak in a completely made-up accent based on their idea of how gangsters talk", their heads full of "a musical subgenre that mixes blatant pornography with violent, egotistical lyrical content".
Rap music to blame again. For Professor Green, there's an entirely different connection between these debates and the riots: "It's ignorance like that of Paul Routledge that breeds the hate and contempt seen in people during this tragedy. Doing what I do now do has entirely changed my life, as it has done for many of my peers. Why would you want to further silence the already voiceless, and take away from people such as myself something that has had nothing but a positive effect on our lives?"
One of the most controversial accusations in the aforementioned articles is the suggestion of wallowing, the sense that people are somehow enjoying their own oppression, and would never have it any other way. If it does nothing else, the undeniably shallow electro-pop that has made ex-grime MCs such as Tinchy Stryder, Dizzee Rascal and Tinie Tempah wealthy superstars points to a pretty stern determination to rise above disadvantaged beginnings. As Lethal Bizzle argues – with a sincere flurry of "I do not condone this" caveats – people were most likely looting TVs so they could sell them to generate cash, and stories of people looting food, and even nappies, suggests a struggle to even survive, rather than a culture of amoral acquisition we see from our millionaire bankers as much as our pop stars.
So if the solution isn't banning rap music – which would be a pretty stunning move for a liberal democracy – what is it? "The key to all of this is education and understanding," says Professor Green: "I became a lot less angry when I learnt how to communicate, and began to understand exactly where my anger came from and what I was unhappy with." Wretch 32, too, says he wants to see an effort to "rebuild our communities by addressing people's issues, and creating more opportunities for our youth".
What about the Miliband-Cameron mantra of personal responsibility? It's not quite that simple, according to Bizzle. "People on my Twitter feed were saying to me 'well you turned your life around', and yeah sure, I did, but things were a little bit different back then. I remember going to community centres, and going on little trips, staying off the streets. My mum went to college and studied catering and she got a job straight away – she was fortunate then." So what's different on Britain's council estates now? "There are many ways to prevent riots, but the first thing is jobs – I mean fucking hell, where are the jobs? There are no jobs!" He leaves it hanging there for a split second, the frustration lingering on the phone line. "My little brother is 20 now, he's never had a job in his life – he's been trying to get a job for four years. And there's no logic at all in taking away the EMA and putting up uni fees: a lot of these kids who are involved in these riots, they're that age, where it's college, before going on to uni. Taking that away is madness."
"They need to start from ground zero, from these underprivileged kids, their unemployed parents," he continues. "They need to be working hands on with them, not sweeping it under the carpet, like it'll deal with itself, because now it's on their front doorstep." Meanwhile, money has been pouring into what used to be Bizzle's – and grime's – front doorstep, in the Olympic boroughs of Waltham Forest, Newham, Greenwich, Hackney and Tower Hamlets. "They've seen none of it," Bizzle protests, echoing the response of some east Londoners in the aftermath of the riots. "And now the government has to spend all this money to fix the country – if that money had been spent in the community, they wouldn't have had this problem in the first place."
On Monday night, DJ Logan Sama's weekly Kiss FM grime show ended symbolically with a tune by a young MC called Rival titled Talk That. First aired in April this year, it feels eerily prophetic all of a sudden, a grim answer to the questions so many are now asking – though too few will hear. It's a bleak description of drug dealing, violence, limited horizons and fatalism. "They want to know why there's all this anger, all this pain/ They want to know why I talk that violence, talk that slang …" Rival spits, before moving into a chorus that is sung with such stymied emotion that it's all the more poignant, because it's so flat: "I just say, 'It's all I know."
It's an age-old argument – one that most will never change their views about – but the case that music with morally unpalatable messages merely reflects reality, rather than glamourises or incites amorality, needs to be reaffirmed more than ever. If, as Martin Luther King wrote, "a riot is the language of the unheard", a result of "living with the daily ugliness of slum life, educational castration and economic exploitation", then this is Dr King's language rendered as art, and set to music.
Dan Hancox's new book Summer of Unrest: Kettled Youth is newly published by Random House
Comments in chronological order (Total 110 comments)
12 August 2011 7:30PM
all i can say is the people who have been commenting on the riots are righties dressed up as lefties
poverty and capitalism is at fault for all these riots there is no other intelligent way of looking at it.
drop bombs and invade a country and your a freedom fighter
loot shops and protest the mega corporations and poverty and you are a violent thug
they have it absolutely sown up
12 August 2011 7:41PM
Magnificent piece of work, Dan. One of the best things I've ever read on here.
12 August 2011 7:43PM
This is the key question that underlies respecting others' humanity and honour. The perception calls for self-reflection on the idea that your perception might be wrong, that 'the community' does not hate you, is not out to get you, grind you down, make you suffer. It is fundamental that often what we feel to be true inside is not an accurate picture of the world. We might hurt, despise any authority, feel angry. This means we have to work understand what's going on and find out what to change, not nuke things we feel threatened by. Why should we care? Because caring is the only choice that's going to get any of us anywhere at all.
12 August 2011 8:01PM
This is a really important feature - and I'm so glad it has been written. Who would have thought that music journalism would provide the most insightful take so far on this week's violence.
If you speak to residents of these estates, youth workers, housing officers and even some police, they are echoing very similar views to those of Professor Green (someone who I have never respected musically, but have to say comes across very eloquently in this piece); where is the education and the family unit?
I visited an estate in Stockwell where there had been a series of shootings back in April, and already there were explicit warnings that kids were angry and there would be riots:
http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/6514436.article
Dan's piece shows that grime and rap have been telling the story of the riots long before they exploded onto our highstreets.
12 August 2011 8:17PM
But what I hear is ranting about mistreating one's 'ho's and bitches'and the acquisition of bling.
Yes,there is a longstanding inequality of wealth and opportunity in places like Tottenham but you don't hear the Asian kids,the Cypriots et al bleating 30 yrs on,they get on with it and at least try to move out of their disadvantage.
Get over it,if you're big enough to 'smack your bitch up'you are big enough not to wallow in victimhood.
12 August 2011 8:33PM
Thank you so much for this article. This is way, way, way the best commentary on the riots that has been written so far. at last there is someone willing to actually report what people who are rioting have been thinking ... rather than what someone else thinks they might be thinking ...
12 August 2011 8:36PM
@ Bhang
You hear what you want to hear.
12 August 2011 8:42PM
First article I've read in the debate about the riots that mentions EMA - well done.
Withdrawing that is a real kick in the teeth for those from low-income families trying to do A levels/NVQs etc. Those in the media have spent a lot of time highlighting the rise in university fees as it affects them and their children, but the withdrawal of EMA will have a real (£30/week) impact on the pockets of some of those who were out on the street. Not only that, but this has been an immediate impact, where the university fees are still a year away.
Even if the riots were not a 'political' act, much of the underlying frustrations come from the choices made by politicians.
12 August 2011 8:47PM
The Ruts were predicting 'Babylon's burning in 1979....just sayin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LAcEWMAqEM
12 August 2011 8:50PM
Bhang
Instead of pointing to the name of a dance track, can you please find a lyric from a UKG, grime or road rap tune that talks about smacking bitches up? Nope, didn't think you could seeing as you've probably never actually listened to any.
I'm sick of people with a limited understanding of music or the areas we come from lecturing about morals and personal responsibility.
As Logan has been saying this week, Dizzee Rascal made an album in 2003 (which actually won a Mercury) which captured the problems perfectly ("Adults don't understand us, friends don't understand us, no one understands us"). Bar references to 'social mobility' from public school educated politicians (often parachuted into safe seats in poor areas with no understanding of the locals, I'm looking at you Milliband) Labour and the Conservatives and Labour have done next to nothing to address problems in inner city areas that have been in the pipeline since at least the 80s. Us feckless council estate kids should just get on our bike, there's a world of opportunity out there. Who could fail to be inspired by run down high rise flats anyway?
Obviously the problem is to do with MTV base, not a chronic lack of investment and attention to the poorest areas across the UK. Reactionary responses to the riots and looting will help nothing; its not supporting what went on to say the political class need to understand why some people went out and caused so much destruction so easily. We need to work towards a society where everyone is ambitious and aspirational, not make jokes at the expense of those who've fallen behind. Mug.
"Its 2012 soon, its ridiculous. Each year the roads are becoming more vicious"
12 August 2011 8:52PM
You don't have a right to call yourself "professor" if you're not teaching in a university. You just sound farcical.
12 August 2011 9:00PM
Author:
Really? In the same way they have spoken out against homophobia perhaps.
12 August 2011 9:13PM
Yeah, and I bet you hold your gun sideways, don't you?
12 August 2011 9:13PM
dnjamin 12 August 2011 7:30PM all i can say is the people who have been commenting on the riots are righties dressed up as lefties
===========================================================
Well said.
Tthese people live in a whole other world from the rioters. I'm not making any excuses for the rioters behaviour but one thing I've learnt from these events is that "liberals" are very judgemental people.
I wish they showed this hatred for the bankers and politicians who rob this country in plain sight.
12 August 2011 9:24PM
When they get round to posting RIP messages to the victims of the riots I might be more interested in what they have to say. Until then I'll just assume that they're happy to glorify gangsterism and the destructive lifestyle that surrounds it.
12 August 2011 9:27PM
The moral among us have always protested against gangsta culture but been cast as racists by black power and far left propagandists and profit hungry business and mainly given in.
The riots were the forseeable consequence of an idiotic political correctness brought about by the Guardian, New Statesman and BBC in London, particularly BBC London and BBC 1Xtra which shut down race related debate no matter how crucial.
So gangsta culture was actually embraced by the British media into the mainstream. No objection from Westminster drug suppliers.
One of the underlying social factors and root causes of social breakdown is the perception of disenfranchisement which our immoral, politically and profit driven media and businesses actively encourage.
BBC 1Xtra is a music station set up for young council house tenants who not only have to contend with peer pressure from the obvious negative influences but from the established media of the land encouraging them to roll with gangsta perspectives.
Right now the intended school-going listener is learning through it's (very lightweight and tame) playlist that:-
There ain't no bulletproof needed for Chipmunk because we don't give a fuck
Little bad girl(keep dancing) because you never know when somebody gonna throw a couple of dollars David Guetta
Chris Brown of domestic violence note has a ballad on the playlist.
Ed Sheeran is Into having sex, aint into making love
Emeli Sande wonders Will you recognise me when I'm lying on my back?
Eminem warns It will be dangerous if you fuck me over ... I have no love for these motherfucking hoes ... I'm trying to stop you from breathing I put both hands on your throat 'til I snap your neck like a popsicle stick ...
Jay Z and Kanye West tell us I invented swag popping bottles putting supermodels in the cab ... the big face rollie I got 2 of those ... I pulled up in my other Benz ... everything's for sale, I got 5 passports I'm never going to jail
Kreayshawn tells us I smoke a million swisher blunts bitch you ain't no barbie ... I'm in the Coupe cruising I got the stolen plates ... Gucci Gucci, Louis Louis, Fendi Fendi, Prada ... got my hand on the pump if you wanna push your luck
Loick Essien says We only roll through guns blazin ... and reload
Nicki Minaj says This one is for the boys ... blazin up he pop bottles he might sell coke he a muthafuckin trip ... yes youll get slapped if you looking ho ... tell him who the eff I is ... he just gotta give me that look then the panties come off
Tinie Tempah says I need that dollar yo ... I be cutting off these bitches like an episode of nip tuck ... you don't need a thermometer to tell you who is hottest ip dip do muthafucker you are not it
Vybz Kartel says Me wan fuk
Wiz Khalifa says Wakin up in the morning 2 hoes lying next to me plus I heard a officer arrested me ... Good weed thats the muthafuckin recipe ... The bitches the weed the hotel is all free get so high we don't see the whole suite
Drake says I be yelling out money over everything, money on my mind
Mavado lets us know Me brain sicker from mi smoke pon dah spliff.
Modestep's Sunlight video is about a group of unisex OAPs robbing a newsagent, swigging Jack Daniels, smoking joints through gas masks, taking amyl nitrate, getting lap dances from young women in their underwear and doing cocaine off their backs and maybe orifices.
Professor Green says Soon as I'm done calling this bulimic a fat bitch ... now I'll turn you into a kebab with my pickaxe ... vomit then I drink some more wine ... toke ...
Shabba Ranks wants everyone to know None a dem bad or tough like Shabba ranking with dem likkle house, dem likkle car, dem likkle chain, dem baby name
Sneakbo says I went jail fuck feds I'm home ... I rip bras then mash up the narni ... it's gun shots for dem ... I'm badda than bad, I'm mad ... any batty boys RIP ... try and keep calm if you don't want the rage
Starboy Nathan says several times he wears Gucci and has a driver.
Timbaland tells us She does what I say, does what I please, lives on her knees
Game says he's Gotta carry my piece ... everybody doin time ... but if I never tried to follow that rainbow in search of the pot of gold .. sometimes I try to do good but I just can't be, it's hard to get myself to do things that ain't me
Lewi White is Skunk bunning ... young guns with the class A lines ... that'll heighten your mood like chasin' spirals with a spoon
I have not quoted the many instances of the "N" word in this (as I say, very tame) playlist.
This BBC radio station was designed to appeal to "urban" youngsters in social housing but isn't it the BBC's job to lead schoolchildren to positive and constructive, self-respecting points of view and identify their idiosyncratic talents?
12 August 2011 9:36PM
Contrived:
Good point well made. "Gangstas" taking themselves very seriously have done well from the BBC.
Modesty used to be an admired characteristic in Britain. Now it seems the BBC believes in vanity.
12 August 2011 9:40PM
First comment says all that needs to be said: nothing much to add to that. Selah.
12 August 2011 9:42PM
That's right professor.
The gang who beat a pensioner to death, and the gang that murdered three young Asian men, the common link is ... it's all Paul Routledge's fault.
12 August 2011 9:44PM
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12 August 2011 9:46PM
promixcuous
Dr Who isn't registered with the General Medical Council you know...
12 August 2011 9:53PM
Jehst penned his own take on the state of the country on his latest album, with a track called "England" funnily enough...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vSyk2_xLA
He manages to predict exactly what we have witnessed in the last few days.
12 August 2011 9:53PM
thank you its all about cause and effect and they train us always to blame effect so they can get away with anything i have lived in the areas that these riots happened and i am from south africa and there is poverty cause by governments who only care for big business not the people and now look the cops were shown to be dodgy in the now scandal and now they are heroes makes me sick
12 August 2011 9:54PM
YourGeneticDestiny 12 August 2011 9:44PM Contrived - you are using evidence to back-up your claims. You know for a fact that's a no-no here and it WILL be deleted
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Its not that, its just I can promise you that nobody in Peckham or Toxteth is listening to Ed Sheeran, Kreayshawn, Tinie Tempah or whoever he listed. You're clutching at straws mate. Dancing around the issue like a true "liberal".
12 August 2011 9:56PM
While I'm at it, any attempt to link Martin Luther King's philosophy of non-violent resistance, self reliance and co-operation with the nihilistic misogynist rantings of most of the artists quoted is beyond naive; it's insulting.
12 August 2011 10:12PM
I hear that David Bowie wasn't really a spider from Mars...
12 August 2011 10:23PM
@promixcuous
I was equally shocked to discover that Count Basie,Duke Ellington and Prince weren't real aristocrats
12 August 2011 10:24PM
rap music used to be interesting and great. but now its just a fkin mess. homophobic, sexist, money obsessed nonsense. i'm sure a lot of the kids burning stuff come from deprived areas but i grew up in a fairly non descript crappy area and i never felt the urge to throw blocks of concrete at the police or set fire to shops and peoples flats, probably because my parents instilled a bit of discipline and respect in me. unlike any of these fuckers.
12 August 2011 10:26PM
and also "they have to take us seriously" or what? you'll burn more peoples flats down and drive stolen cars into groups of innocent men. as for mark duggan, man enough to carry a gun, man enough to be killed by one.
12 August 2011 10:27PM
More influence than Cameron has - yes that's credible. But that must carry with it a degree of responsibility too, surely. The fact that there are boutique brands of rap, not all equally misogynistic etc, is not a blanket excuse.
12 August 2011 10:28PM
This is vile. A commercial industry cynically sells a life style of crime and violence to people who have failed in education and life, walks away with millions and then claims to be interested in the problems of the disadvantaged.
This is all a fantasy anyway. Most of the people arrested are career criminals. Those who aren't are mainly earning good money. This is nothing to do with a faux black culture or with impoverishment. It is everything to do with crime and the idea that other people's property is "free stuff".
People have lost the homes, their possessions, their livelihoods and their lives and the Guardian sees fit to publish this trash.
Nothing I have written here transgresses your published standards so if this is moderated it can only be for cynical reasons. This article in several respects trangresses your community standards. Will it be moderated?
12 August 2011 10:33PM
@Bhang
I don't think you can compare Asians and Cypriots to the people involved in the riots. This is a complex issue with many important contributing factors.
Asians and Cypriots have an identity - the very terms Asian/Cypriot have cultural, historical and geographical meaning, they refer to a place, an origin.
I'd suggest that Asians/Cyprian's/Orientals have succeeded well in a our contemporary multicultural society as they have a clear, defined and rich history of which they are proud of.
Their history and culture has been passed down directly through many generations, pretty much uninterrupted (Yes they've had their share of suffering) and today, they not only identify themselves as "Asian" or "Cyprian" but the external world also identifies them so.
I think the label Black has been a form of negative reinforcement? - it dosen't refer to ones culture or history - Its a crude, base label that has all kinds of negative stigma attached, NOT an identity. To be Black simply means to not be white (as evidenced by the advent of America's 1st supposed Black president).
When an Asian is stereotyped they have something to fall back on, to reaffirm them. When a Black person is stereotyped where do they look to for affirmation?
Next...
Poverty is a symptom of capitalism, plain and simple.
The Whites involved are equally frustrated/disenfranchised, by their treatment/position in our culture/society - these people have been left to rot at the bottom and the inevitable has happened. (Its a big shame that it was bloody minded aggression rather than a political stand/demonstration).
For years UK hip hop lyrics have been describing the lives and expressing the growing feelings of the people trapped in these places. The signs have been there socially but they have been ignored as "their" problem. Now it appears to be "Your" problem.
Jehst, Klash (Terra Firma), Skinnyman, Taskforce et al have been raising these issues since the beginning of their careers!
Calling the people involved mindless criminal thugs is stating the obvious Cameron you p/muppet - the wider public have simply witnessed what happens everyday in certain areas around the UK, only this time it's on a mass scale and in unison.
You've got to laugh really.
12 August 2011 10:34PM
The music coming over from America is a disgrace celebrating drinking, drugs, guns and women.
Just look at the latest #1 album in america with titles like 'drink in my hand', 'homeboy', "Jack Daniels" "I'm Gettin' Stoned" . That album as well from a music format that has some of its singers glorifying guns.
Oh, hold on its Eric Church who is a country singer. So that's alright then. He's white. So I can continue to enjoy it then.
12 August 2011 10:37PM
It is obvious something has gone seriously wrong when you simply compare the "Black" music of 70's to the "Black" music of today?
12 August 2011 10:40PM
Nice to see that people can't read an article about certain music without tarring all it's artists with the same brush.
What Lethal Bizzle says about the tories has long been true.
However, this mess is very much Blair's legacy.
He had every opportunity to reverse the schism Thatcher started. He had money in the treasury and the chance to change things.
And yes, they did introduce this and that. Yes, they can point to this statistic and that statistic.
However, his government alienated, condemned and marginalised. There were numerous warning sent out to New Labour about the mess they were exacerbating and they ignored it.
Their pandering to Murdoch and the Mail meant their education initiatives were watered down fudges. Much of what we see now is a direct result of his failure to improve education. He promised to improve education. He only improved education statistics.
And now we have to face the same old puritanical, Victorian horse-shit mixed in with holier than thou liberalism.
The same people who complain about paying tax are the ones demanding more police and more people in prison for longer. The same people who say there is no excuse for such thieving are the same ones who flaunt and boast about their latest, pointless gadget.
Like it or not, the causes for these riots aren't so far away from the reasons they rioted in north Africa.
People are sick of poverty, hypocrisy and corruption.
All these three apply to Britain.
12 August 2011 10:46PM
And this is produced, distributed and marketed by American music corporations.
These corporations are run mainly by white people.
They push this "gangster" format because it sells and sells, in vast amounts, to white consumers.
There is something that signifies the period in which misogyny, thuggery, violence and excessive profanity became predominant in hiphop. That something is the involvement of the Music Corporations.
Sure, there was swearing and sexism and avarice and realism before the late '80s.
But it was big business that insisted on this being pushed to the fore and insisting it became he most visible form of the music.
12 August 2011 11:01PM
Actually if you read above what I wrote, I was being ironic that in fact the music I listen to (I am english and live in england) a lot is American country music. That music format contains more references to drugs, drinking, violence, murder, guns etc than any other music format including rap. Yet because the singers are predominately white and appear 'safe' then it appears to be Ok. (My late father too was into gangster music-Frank Sinatra and he really was connected to the Mafia as is the safe tourist town of Las Vegas.)
The whitest programme on TV is Midsomer. Yet in this tiny village it has the highest murder rate in the country, yet is considered safe family viewing. I wonder why?
12 August 2011 11:05PM
brituiser
I misread you. There are a few fools on here, didn't mean to class you ass one.
My point isn't really one of race, more of capitalism.
I'm sure if they could get away with it and it sold, these companies would sell pro-klan music if it made a profit.
12 August 2011 11:12PM
You make the choice between writing songs that glorify a gangster lifestyle or you write songs that promote a positive message.
Compare the sixties singers message to any of the rappers mentioned above and you'll find the sixties message was left-wing while todays rappers are right-wing, just without the racism.
We rightly would criticise a white skinhead band, so why not todays homophobic and misogynistic music, especially when his music is the mainstream?
12 August 2011 11:24PM
But the race angle is part of all of this. Whenever a black person performs anything that is not considered suitable for a small child it comes under intense scutiny. Whenever I see a black performer they always have to talk about being 'role models'. That pressure simply doesn't exist for white performers, where they can do anything and are celebrated for it-drugs, women, sex, violence etc.
After all in the riots many people are saying that David Cameron and Boris Johnson got up to the same in the Bullingdon Club. David Cameron almost got expelled because of drugs-but still passed all his exams. He has a different background so everything he has done is seen thru a different lens. If you run a country like Tony Blair or Gordon Brown you can bomb whole countries for your personal gain, lie about it and its considered heroic. Its almost impossible to criticise anyone now who joins the military who might have rather dubious motives-they're all heroes too now. Run a company, break the law on firing people-that's just the cost of doing business.Run a company-fiddle the accounts-that's to be expected and run off with people's money.
13 August 2011 12:02AM
What ignorant pigshit!
Were urban disturbances in Victorian times blamed on Dicken's Oliver Twist ffs?!
Fact is all these knee jerk responses stink to high heaven.
From the 90s onwards Britain has been going in two different directions an employed upper class which is living in a comfortable, neo-Brit world where royalty is held up as something to cherish, the BBC groans on and on about things like Henley and Ascot, whilst others live in wastelands where drug dealing front lines and thugs terrorise whole communities and are generally avoided by the police in their rush to fine non-seatbelt wearing drivers.
There always seems to be a recession when anyone is seeking work or help and now there is a real Depression, time unfortunately doesn't have a pause button, so people from their twenties to their forties have grown up in a society that offers them no real hope unless they get involved in something dodgy and manage to get away with it otherwise the message is 'tough shit' and suffer!
Sad to see London go up in flames but it was long overdue. And things will get worse, no families, no communities, no justice, no hope leads to no compromise, no limits and finally no sense!
In short, the cause of the riots are a combination of factors, many of which all parties wish to ignore. The decision to allow many parts of London (for whatever reason) to become in reality wild uncontrolled regions. The breakdown of the family unit which leads to a bastard culture, not only in the literal sense of birth outside marriage but in the sense of a desparate dog-eat-dog society, which has been the case across swathes of London. The materialistic, capitalist society in which multinationals push their goods 24/7 and whose influence corrupts politicians and police whose long term result is everyone joins the party and wants a piece of the action and has the same insensitive corrupt nature.
The result of such a society is that it gets extremely spiteful and bitter, as reflected by the rioters and the reaction by the little snobs in power who don't stop for a millisecond to consider why and jump on the first opportunity to exploit the situation for personal gain and glory. And as that is the case don't expect it to come to an end any day soon.
An eleven year old appears in court for stealing a bottle of wine, whilst a 50 year old banker gets to keep his six figure annual bonus even though his actions may have cost the nation billions? A just society?
13 August 2011 12:31AM
cowfoot
Yes. highly moving some of these 'tributes'. From memory:
Starrish Mark (his gang name apparently) RIP. Father. Gangsta. Martyr.
You couldn't make it up.
13 August 2011 12:37AM
Agree totally. Many say that the homophobia and misogyny aren't to be taken seriously but can you imagine anybody in the Guardian arguing this of some knuckle dragging white power band singing about the Holocaust being a lie. Or sticking up for a band that mocked children with special needs.
Anyway I'm off to play some truly inspiring black music, maybe some Curtis Mayfield or Marvin Gaye. No one in rap music comes near their quality today.
13 August 2011 12:51AM
Rap and hip hop have this "it's all about me" mentality that I have no patience for. They claim they "aren't being listened to when in fact they demand their concerns dominate everything. We all have gripes the theirs are no more important than anyone else's. They use threats of violence to make people appease them.
13 August 2011 1:13AM
There has been one post-riot song with a slightly different slant - "String 'Em Up" by Bill & Dave & Carl http://billanddaveandcarl.bandcamp.com/
13 August 2011 1:23AM
This is outrageous.
Inner cities have seen record investments under the Blair yeas, despite some policy mismanagement (major often, yes). In Britain, even now in the depressing days, jobs exist. Even in the economic boom of the new labour years certain people wouldn't work. When you say "politicians dont listen", what exactly do you mean? I grew up in Newcastle, in a rubbish area, perhaps without the ethnic mix and guns that surround London: but it was still rough. No-one "listens" to me, or my mates. However, we've all got jobs, some of them rubbish and we're far from perfect human beings, but we don't all sit around blaming everyone else. Life is tough, and often unfair, and ive got no doubt that some estates in London entail a tough upbringing. I keep hearing this ridiculous notion that its the governments fault for closing thins like youth centres. If youre relying on a communal hall, some free pool and a former badboy turned role model to stop riots then something is fundamentally wrong, and it's not the government. Glorifying occassionaly insightful lyrics to the status of "whats really happening on the streets" strikes me as pointless: narratives explaining about the mundanes of life in bad areas is nothing new, or fascinating: it's like claiming Thats Entertainment by the Jam somehow predicted the riots we saw in the 80s.
There are jobs out there believe me: every cleaner I see is an immigrant where an English person felt too proud to do the job. Seems to me that a lot of people of my generation are too proud to do rubbish jobs but not proud enough to spend the whole time hanging about making music, feeling sorry for them. How many people on here are employers? If so, would you employ many of these kids? I grew up with a lot of these types of people, and often they're damnright lazy: not helped by their parents attitudes, bad schooling etcetera. However, there's a line, and there's a point where you have to take responsibility for your own actions. Poverty in England is measured relatively: we infact have very little absolute poverty (but some, yes). In this country, an unemployed person, even under the "evil" Conservatives, will get their rent, heat, light and enough money to feed and scrappily live (and find a job). Not glamorous, but still better than most of the world's population. In Egypt they protested about a dictator ordering deaths, as in Syria. Rising food prices really hit people: no real vote existed: something tells me the rest of the world will see us as little more than spoilt brats.
If things were really that bad, English kids would do what many of the rest of worlds young do in the world when faced with bleak prospects and low employment opportunities: emigrate. I wonder why they won't?
The true test of people is how they respond when faced with adversity. Some people get it easy in life, kids from the shires who are spoilt with great educations, gap years and new cars on their 17th birthdays. There's also a lot of us who grow up in bad areas, and work hard and still manage to get to being a responsible young adult (albeit a bumpy ride): we don't tend to be the ones making music, or kicking up fuss and noise: we're quietly in the background getting on with our lives. Also, we kind of grew out of the mentality that music is the only way to express yourself, we found other forums, and bettered ourselves. We stayed in touch with some of the kids who were trouble at school, but we avoided the situations which brought big trouble. We faced peer pressure, and we rejected it. And we're nowt special either....
My point is vague and rambling: All i mean to say is, responsiblity lies with the individual in most circumstances. Since when did someone called Chipmunk get to air opinions that got seriously listened to anyway? No-one else weary of this whole "yeah, ive done bad things, but what happened in the riots was too far" attitude of London's fashionable badboys. Reminds me of the prisoners who've done all kinds of horrible things but draw the arbirtary line at paedophillia, or the crackhead who insists he'll never touch heroin cos its dirty.
13 August 2011 1:26AM
This is the same old excuses the "underpriveliged" have been hiding behind for decades.
Inner city areas would have equal education as other areas if quality teachers actually wanted to work there. Problem is the pupils in the deprived areas generally are a total nightmare. Teachers get harassed, threatened and assaulted on a daily basis. Actually getting a class to sit and listen for a whole hour is highly unlikely. What can the government do to improve education in these areas if teachers refuse to work there? You can't force people to teach in these schools. So a start would be for these communities to instill a sense of responsible and respectful behaviour in schools. Parents and the communities should collectively drive out this atrocious behaviour in schools and maybe then good teachers will return to these areas.
As for EMA. This is a relatively recent thing. It didn't change anything. It may have actually made things worse. There is no reason to keep it going and the money should be used for some other initiative.
Maybe these deprived communities need to work with the government and come forward with what they are prepared to do (and actually do, not just promise) to help their communities move out of the bad times. If you meet half way with the government then maybe some of the initiatives that get tried will show some positive effects.
Without the community helping itself, no one outside can hope to help you.
How do you think potential employers see you if this is how you come across? Employers want respectful, trustworthy and hard working employees. Ask yourself, woud a law firm take me on as a trainee if I come across as a gangstar? Would a bank employ me as a counterclarke, dealing with the public, if you talk " in a completely made-up accent based on their idea of how gangsters talk"?
13 August 2011 1:36AM
@rmjg118
One of the best posts I've ever read. I truly hope at least one person is inspired by it.
I too grew up in a deprived area and worked hard to get out of it. I too shunned peer pressure and boy that leads to hard times at school. It sure is worth it in the end when you carve out a decent life for yourself.
I tried keeping friendships with my old mates back home, but their lives dipping in and out of crime doesn't wash when you have a respectable job. We were also such different people. I had changed, they were still the same. I don't see anyone I was friends with before university anymore. We're just too different.
If you want to get out of the gutter you have to stop acting like you live there.
13 August 2011 1:39AM
Trustworthy? Don't you just mean in many cases willing to stay silent, covering up, looking the other way, pretending they can't see what people higher up are doing?
The boardrooms are not full of pacifist quaker christians.
13 August 2011 1:57AM
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