Rev. Graham: Obama seen as 'son of Islam'

GOP candidate Rick Santorum's recent comments on President Obama's "theology" continue to generate conversation, and the Rev. Franklin Graham joins Morning Joe to discuss whether the president is a Christian, Christianity in the Middle East, government overreach with religious institutions, and why he thinks Santorum is a Christian.

Rev. Franklin Graham, the son of evangelist Billy Graham and a prominent evangelical leader in his own right, waded into contentious waters Tuesday when asked for his views on the religious beliefs of President Obama and the GOP hopefuls.

Graham, the CEO and president of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, told a Morning Joe panel he couldn't say for certain that Obama is a Christian.


“You have to ask him. I cannot answer that question for anybody. All I know is I’m a sinner, and that God has forgiven me of my sins," Graham said. "You have to ask every person. He has said he’s a Christian, so I just have to assume that he is.”

But Graham also said he couldn't "categorically" say Obama wasn't a Muslim, in part, because Islam has gotten a "free pass" under Obama. Graham also said the Muslim world sees Obama as a "son of Islam," because the president's father and grandfather were Muslim.

According to Edina Lekovic, director of policy at the Muslim Public Affairs Council, being born in a Muslim family doesn't make one a Muslim. A person has to make an active choice to become a Muslim, Lekovic said. 

Obama has said again and again that he is a Christian, both as a presidential candidate and as president.

“I’m a Christian by choice,” Obama told a group of New Mexico voters last September, answering a question from a member of the audience. He said he has embraced his faith even though growing up, “my family didn’t, frankly. They weren’t folks who went to church every week.”

In Chicago, Obama was a member of Trinity United Church of Christ for years, but he quit in May 2008 after videos of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s racially-divisive sermons surfaced on the Web.

“Our relations with Trinity have been strained by the divisive statements of Reverend Wright, which sharply conflict with our own views,” Obama and his wife Michelle wrote at the time

The debate over the president's faith was brought up again on the campaign trail this Saturday, when Rick Santorum told a Tea Party crowd in Columbus, Ohio, that Obama's agenda is "not about you. It's not about you. It's not about your quality of life. It's not about your job. It's about some phony ideal, some phony theology. Oh, not a theology based on the Bible, a different theology, but no less a theology."

Related: Santorum defends 'theology' remark, Hitler inference; blames media

When pressed by reporters after Saturday's comments, the former Pennsylvania senator said he did not imply the president is not a Christian, but said the president was trumping religious freedoms. 

Graham told the Morning Joe panel that he and Santorum share the same moral beliefs, and that he's confident Santorum is a fellow Christian.

"His values are so clear on moral issues, no question about it," he told the Morning Joe panel. 

Graham spoke with a little less confidence about Gingrich's faith, and cast doubt on whether Romney's Mormonism is compatible with Christianity.

"I think Newt is a Christian, at least he told me he is," Graham said. He added that Romney's Mormon faith is not recognized as part of the Christian faith by most Christians, but he wouldn't give his own view.

Romney has stood by his faith, saying Mormonism's values are "as American as motherhood and apple pie."

"I believe in my Mormon faith," Romney said in a 2007 speech, "and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers. I'll be true to them and to my beliefs."

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  • 30 votes
#1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:47 PM EST
Comment author avatarlynseypugRestored

Islam has gotten a free pass under Obama? Yea, right. Tell that to the radical muslims that have been killed by Obama...say Osama Bin Laden for one.

  • 515 votes
#1.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:58 PM EST

Haven't we as a country moved beyond listening to idiotic, irrelevant, (Now multi-generational) self serving,money and power driven, bible thumping talking heads? I guess not. Some people need to have god interpreted for them so they know what to think.

  • 462 votes
#1.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:01 PM EST
Comment author avatarnotliborconRestored

Mr. graham how can I be sure YOU are a Christian? Because you said you were like Obama said he was?

  • 427 votes
#1.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:01 PM EST
Comment author avatarMother Cluster DuckExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

graham you are despicable. no doubt God has turned his back on you.

  • 260 votes
#1.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:10 PM EST
Comment author avatarDerek-381097Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Get it right, Obama is a MUSLIN! According to a cardboard sign in 2008.

Welcome to the well dressed neanderthalls who lead tribes, like Graham. Wearing a fancy suit and holding the Bible doesn't mean you aren't a total moron like this guy and anyone who actually listens to him.

Oh, and apparently don't vote for Romney because he is a Mormon. You know, that's a lot more important than whether you believe in his track record or what he'll promise for the future.

Graham is in the wrong country. He might want to consider moving to Afghanistan, and throwing a hissy fit riot when the Bible gets burned.

  • 315 votes
#1.5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:13 PM EST

Wow, he isn't his father that is for sure. I can't imagine he would have approved of this kind of speculation on his sons part.

  • 212 votes
#1.6 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:13 PM EST

And with one interview, Graham endorses Santorum. Translation: Obama might be a Christian, but I didn't asked, but you know his father was Muslim, so the Muslims must claim him as such, Newt is a Christian because he told me so, but I gotta take his word for it and Romney seems like a nice guy, but he is not the right Christian for our little party. I wish his father could smack him upside the head for being an idiot. There is no reason to question any one's beliefs, because they are not running to be a head of a religious institution. We are the United States of America and not the United States only for Christians.

  • 393 votes
#1.7 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:15 PM EST
Comment author avatarjim Ledden-3738606Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Graham crackers !

  • 189 votes
#1.8 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:15 PM EST
Comment author avatarmoonbaseGOPExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

All the jacka$$es (graham) are coming out of the woodwork now, I see.. Time to capitalize on the feeding frenzy of all the mentally challenged gubers who buy the books and make contributions to these morons....

  • 199 votes
#1.9 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:18 PM EST

and the twisted far right wing continues to embarrass themselves to the majority while kowtowing to a minority agenda

  • 217 votes
#1.10 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:19 PM EST
Comment author avatarkat-1015719Restored

This guy wouldn't make a patch on his father's old, stinky underwear. His father never waded into political waters and stuck strictly with the teachings of the Bible. I have a lot of respect for him because of that. But this guy? His only interest is money.

My guess is next, he'll be asking for Obama's birth certificate.

  • 202 votes
#1.11 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:19 PM EST
Comment author avatarreal michaudRestored

anyone, and I mean anyone who believes these evangelical preachers, catholic bishops, and the mormons, has to realize them (meaning you the church attendee) and their wallets are being taken for a ride...they are wasting your time also.

Now my suggestion is to quit going to church. Quit giving them your money and time, and eventually this will all go away. I beg you people who go to church, to send them a letter resigning our membership. The reason?....haven't you heard something from the preacher that was off or totally wrong, or did not match what you have read in the Bible? If so , why keep attending. I was brought up Seventh-Day Adventist, I quit going and giving money...why? because they are not teaching what I believe to be the truth according to the Bible.

Now if your church preaches politics, leave. All churches that involve themselves in politics should be taxed.

  • 208 votes
#1.12 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:23 PM EST

What a charlaton. Watching this, this morning made me want to vomit. It was a beautiful illustration of pandering to an ignorant and paranoid base. If Christians want us to cease seeing them as, well, crazy, they need to denounce crap like this. Just like they are always screaming about Muslims denouncing terrorism, they need to call this guy out on his BS. Afterall, it isn't Muslims that have been inondating us these past few weeks with radicalism, now is it?

And what's the best part of this whole "Obama's a Muslim" thing, is that it doesn't matter one whit. There's no religious test for office.

God, just when you think it can't get anymore ridiculous.

  • 262 votes
#1.13 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:24 PM EST
Comment author avatarSCGuardianExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Wasn't this Reverend(?) the same one that told his idiot listeners that God would smite him if they didn't send money to him???? Nothing more than a con-artist like all of his Televangelist brothers. He is going down.

  • 106 votes
#1.14 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:26 PM EST

Can anybody REALLY be a true believer and follower of any religion, and be a politician at the same time? People whose livilihood is to convince at least half the people that he better than anybody else to serve as their elected representative has got to equivicate every now and then.

Glen Campbell sang it this way. "There's been a load of compromisin' / On the road to my horizon" / But I'm gonna be a star some day"

True adherence to religious tenets and political compromise are each admirable qualities, but cannot be attributes of the same person at the same time.

  • 41 votes
#1.15 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:30 PM EST

Correction:

"But I'm gonna be where the lights are shining on me"

  • 18 votes
#1.16 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:35 PM EST
Comment author avatarJean321Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Excellent comment, Jahmekan!

After reading the other comments as well on this blog, I'm glad to see that most, if not all, are not the pig-headed, self-righteous, I'm-better-than-anyone-else kind that plagues Religious Right Nuts commenting here.

Graham Junior is disgusting. I don't think Dad Billy would be too pleased with his son.

  • 114 votes
#1.17 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:36 PM EST
Comment author avatarGuyLittleExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

In the Muslim religion, dogs are unclean and not allowed to travel in the same vehicle as the Muslim. Bo has never traveled in the same means of transportation with the first family.

Remember all the other presidents with their dogs coming off the plane with them???

Not the Obama's...

  • 29 votes
#1.18 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:36 PM EST
Comment author avatarbicfjRestored

Graham is an established bigot. This is not the first time he has implied non-christianity of his kind of quetionable people.

  • 105 votes
#1.19 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:36 PM EST
Comment author avatarSCGuardianExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Luke 6:20-21 Then he looked up at his disciples and said: 'Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.

'Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you will be filled. 'Blessed are you who weep
now, for you will laugh.

Luke 4:16-19 When he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, he went to the
synagogue on the Sabbath day, as was his custom. He stood up to read, and the scroll
of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where
it was written:

'The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.'

Matthew 25:34-36 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me."

Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.

Mark 12:41-44 He sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the crowd putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which are worth a penny. 43 Then he called his disciples and said to them, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. 44 For all of them have contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on."

Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

Luke 16:19-25 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man's table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried.

In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. He called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.' But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony.

Luke 11:39-42 Then the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You fools! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? So give for alms those things that are within; and see, everything will be clean for you. "But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and herbs of all kinds, and neglect justice and the love of God.

Luke 12:16-21 Then he told them a parable: "The land of a rich man produced abundantly. And he thought to himself, 'What should I do, for I have no place to store my crops?' Then he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, 'Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.' But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life is being demanded of you. And the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So it is with those who store up treasures for themselves but are not rich toward God."

Jesus didn't need big mega-churches as he and his Disciples taught mostly in the outdoors. He didn't live in a huge Mansion. He didn't have a barn full of expensive cars. But Televangelists have it all including your hard earned money, yet they pay NO TAX on their wealth. They are part of the 1%.

  • 119 votes
#1.20 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:37 PM EST

Evangelical Leaders (Graham being one of the most well-known/respected) have NO business getting into Religious Politics with any President.

It abhors me, quite like Santorum this past week, that he made a severe dig at Pres. Obama, and his religion. Judgement Day.

Religion has NO business for others to criticize--"Both Graham and Santorum really "Stepped into It";

I do not want someone who is President, to Rule by their Religion, ever. It makes me sick.

  • 178 votes
#1.21 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:39 PM EST

Someone said Graham wasn't in the right country? Oh he is for sure. No other civilized nation has a requirement for a president to be a Christian except this backwards nation. Thank God the founding fathers had the foresight to add the first amendment to the constitution. These so called Christians are theocrats and dominionists who would change our constitution and insert their own brand of Christian rule if they could. I don't care what religious faith a candidate has as long as he or she isn't claiming to get answers to our problems direct on a pipeline from God. Many of them do claim to. It is sickening to watch our elected officials bowing to this type of pure nonsense. Makes us the laughing stock of the entire world. Religious freedom, YES. The right to be free from religion, an equally important yes, especially in matters of government. If we can't see the constitutional separation of church and state we are doomed to go back to government run by the church. And then the question is, which of the 1000 different branches of Christian thought will govern us? OUCH that hurts!!

  • 118 votes
#1.22 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:40 PM EST
Comment author avatarSarah-3043284Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

I think Ghandi said it best...

"I like your Christ, I do not think I like your Christians."

Of course, that implies that these nutjobs ARE Christians, which I'm sure could be debated. Isn't the term Pharises, or something???

Either way, I'm getting mighty sick of these wacko's and listening to their draconian rhetoric, ad naseum. Barf.

Can we please skip this BS and focus on actually fixing crap, before the only thing my generation, and those yet to come, get to inherit is a steaming pile of poo? Please?

  • 171 votes
#1.23 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:42 PM EST

If his suit cost more than 149.00, tax his absurd church. Tax it anyway. I cannot believe the right-wing a-holes who complain about every nickel the govt spends (except to kill people and make the rich richer) are willing to put up with these quack cult preachers of fake christianity getting a free ride.

Well, on second thought, yes I can. I was just imagining the GOP filth saying that what Graham said is more proof that Obama is divisive.

  • 87 votes
#1.24 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:43 PM EST

Islam has gotten a free pass under Obama? There are a few Muslim radicals taking dirt naps courtesy of Barack who I think might differ with that remark.

  • 138 votes
#1.25 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:46 PM EST

@LittleGuy, Your comment about Muslims and dogs was interesting. Romney straps his dog on the roof of the car for a cross country drive. Perhaps he is the Muslim?

  • 117 votes
#1.26 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:48 PM EST

Let me see if I have this straight--Gingrich (who has cheated on multiple wives, had questionable dealings as a congressman, and is in general not that trustworthy) is a christian because he says he is, but Obama (a faithful husband and father, and while not that great as president at least hasn't been proven to be dishonest) isn't a christian just because he says he is. Sure, this all makes sense to me!

  • 147 votes
#1.27 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:48 PM EST
Comment author avatarAndy RitchExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

real michaud

Churches in this country feed as many people as the government does in their soup kitchens. Does that make the members of the churches politicians and not Christians? Our government feeds an awful lot of folk through food stamps, etc. It is true our donations to the churches are tax-deductible but at least we have a choice of whether to give or not. Those supporting the government do not have that choice, do they?

  • 23 votes
#1.28 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:52 PM EST
Comment author avatarDevil's SonExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

The GOP policy manual: 1. If you got nothing lie. 2. If the lie has been exposed keep repeating it anyway. 3.If the lie isn't working start talking about sh!t that doesn't matter.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie.

That is a quote from Nazi propaganda minister Joesph Goebbles. Shame on you Mr. Graham!

  • 110 votes
#1.29 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:55 PM EST

Just when you think the Republican festival of ignorance, bigotry, and pure hatefulness has reached its peak... they trot out another mouth-breathing evangelist, whose only notable qualities are a famous evangelist daddy and a two-generation pants load of untaxed income.

  • 117 votes
#1.30 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:55 PM EST

When in the hell this going to stop! He said he Christian, should be good enough. Even if he weren't. What would be so wrong with a Muslim President. Religious freedom ,separation of church and state, ever heard of it??????????????

  • 129 votes
#1.31 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:56 PM EST

Andy,

No, feeding hungry people doesn't make them political. Opining on politics on morning news shows, endorsing candidates, lobbying, and influencing legislation, makes them political.

And, why would you care who's feeding the hungry children, as long as they're getting fed? At least I know the government can't turn them away for being gay, Muslim, or any other demographic the right has deemed a "boogieman".

Keep your religion in your church, and we'll have nothing to say in regards to it. Attempt to put your religion into legislation, or circumvent the law, or discriminate, or sway voters, with it....

Then we're gonna have words.

  • 125 votes
#1.32 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:57 PM EST
Comment author avatarSatanickExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

YOU ARE FREE!*

*to be a Christian.

  • 24 votes
#1.33 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:59 PM EST

GuyLittle, you don't know what you are talking about. maybe you should actually read and SEE some real news. There are all kinds of pictures of President Obama getting out of planes and cars with Bo. Hell there was even a political ad that showed Obama holding Bo while looking out the window of Air Force One.

Being ignorant is a bad way to go through life, GuyLittle.

  • 101 votes
#1.34 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:00 PM EST
Comment author avatartag-2907728Restored

I never agreed with his father but the son adds a true malevolence to the schtick. He is just a snake oil con and the oil is called Jesus.

  • 50 votes
#1.35 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:02 PM EST

When I was younger, I liked science and math and such. I took classes in those subjects, but they kept getting harder and harder. I mean, come on, atoms? You can't even see these things and here's the science teacher talking about them like they're real. I am sooooooo sure.

In math, they started talking about "x" and "y" and stuff like that. Come on, that's the alphabet. Math is about numbers.

Then, I discovered guys like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and now this Graham guy. They've made my life so easy. Forget atoms, forget "x" and "y". The answer to everything is God. And that's not all.

There's these like ten commandments: Thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt no steal - stuff like that. Get this. You can commit adultery, you can steal, you can even bear false witness like Graham is doing right now, and still get forgiveness from God.

Hey, is religion great or what?

  • 115 votes
#1.36 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:05 PM EST

Thank you, Sarah, for your breath of fresh air and for telling it like it is! Keep God Out of Government: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-God-Out-of-Government/103401463096740

  • 40 votes
#1.37 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:08 PM EST

If I Replubican becomes president, I think I'll move to a move progressive country, like Iran

  • 38 votes
#1.38 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:09 PM EST

Sarah

I agree with you about the closeness of the two: church and politics. There are also incredible double standards involved. But, I think you would be glad to know and maybe even care that the church I attend does not turn anybody away. I am with you. I think the church should stay out of politics.

  • 39 votes
#1.39 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:09 PM EST

Thanks Barry! I'm at the end of my rope with these, "I'm Soooo Christian (but still manage to hate gays, Mexicans, Muslims, women, and poor people)" people.

David, hilarious as always.

Andy,

I'm very glad to hear that! I don't want to dislike religion. I want to accept them, they just make it hard.

  • 73 votes
#1.40 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:11 PM EST

Joann at # 1.27 says

Let me see if I have this straight--Gingrich (who has cheated on multiple wives, had questionable dealings as a congressman, and is in general not that trustworthy) is a christian because he says he is

No, you don't have it right. The article clearly states that Mr Graham also questioned Gingrich's Christianity.

Isn't it funny how we read things into articles without really reading them - mostly I guess 'cause we all have pre-conceived notions about who's gonna say what, so actually reading is just a waste of time.

  • 5 votes
#1.41 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:12 PM EST

In most cultures, the mother determines what someone is considered to be at birth. I suppose this is because before paternity tests existed, the only parent you could be 100% sure was a natural parent was the mother.

Whether Graham is a bigot or just an idiot is up to debate. I just assume both.

  • 66 votes
#1.42 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:17 PM EST

It must have been a very slow news day.

Why, may I ask, is Franklin Graham being interviewed about the religious beliefs of the various candidates at all?? Why is he given the airwaves?

What difference should professed religion make to the voters? Why are they questioning the president's religion, AGAIN?? Why are we pandering to this mindset?

It is an outrage to let Graham pontificate about religion and its role in the various nations of the Middle East, when he knows nothing, NOTHING about the cultures, the histories or the leaders of Islamic countries, except that they are all "bad" because they "don't protect their Christian minorities". He thinks Mubarak protected Christians? In a pig's eye!

Graham should take his nose out of politics and put it back where it has clearly been stuck all his life, in the pages of his bible.

We do not need his opinions to help us decide for whom to vote in our SECULAR country.

  • 51 votes
#1.43 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:18 PM EST

This guy Franklin Graham for starters, is nothing like his father( Billy Graham).

I definitely agree with Working Poor poster 1.2, the Notsy like Nationwide Brain Wash Christian Campaign on the FM dials ( 87.7-91.9) 24/7/365, talking in code and brainwashing our Loving and Compassionate Christian population, rival the Nazi-Germany population campaign of the late 1930's, and, it also reflects the best example of written history.

Therefore, in most countries of today's world, man and women, are under the psychological influence and fear of imaginary Entities and Deities, not realizing that many of their beliefs, as well as these imaginary customs and Entities have been passed down from generation to generation, for the a better part of the last 2000 yrs of our known History.

Take for instance Joseph Goebbels, minister of propaganda for the Nazi party in Germany:

From the beginning, Goebbels organized attacks on German Jews, starting with the one-day boycott of Jewish businessmen, doctors, and lawyers.

On April 1933, his attacks on the Jewish population culminated in the Kristallnacht assault of 1938 4 yrs later, an open and unrestrained pogrom unleashed by the Nazis all across Germany, in which scores of synagogues were burned and hundreds of Jews were assaulted and murdered.

Also, Goebbels used modern( As of that time) propaganda techniques such as intense Radio Ads and Clips to psychologically prepare the German people for military warfare.

The above per condensed information on Wikkipedia.

I personally own a collection of 15 dvds where I have seen this guy as well as Hittler in action.

So,

Have we seen anything like this here in the USA let's say since at least the year 2000?

And by which political party? or, better yet :

What Religious Organization(s) here in the US better align with such Political Ideology ?

Any "Pastors" out there peddling Political Sermons by Any chance? Huh?

Off course that would never occur here in the US, for we have and Iron Wall clearly separating Church ( Of any denomination ), from Political Ideology, Right?

Not that Rick Perry, and Mitt Romney are the best examples of it, Right?

And now we have this " Pastor" Franklin Graham peddling code messages to our "Compassionate Christians"

out there, about President Obama being a Son of Islam, basically saying that he is no different than Osama

Bin Laden per say, trying to Pit and even create a kind of Anti-semitic Chaos amongst his followers.

For anyone who does not " Believe", try reading anything about Joseph Goebbels in Germany, from 1924 to 1938.

Read and extrapolate to our times, and see if you can find any similarities between then and now ( The US since at least the year 2000).

  • 31 votes
#1.44 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:18 PM EST

Far too many people in the United States give repulsive people like Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson a "free pass" for the evil statements they make because they are "men of God." Besides being hateful and divisive these charlatans contribute to the ignorant, anti-science mindset of far too many of our citizens, all in the name of "Christianity." Christianity is in quotes because it is far, far removed from New Testament Bible teachings like the Sermon On The Mount and "love thy neighbor."

Franklin Graham takes the totally anti-science stance that the Muslim religion, or any religion for that matter, is passed in the genes from father to son, while Pat Robertson claims that the Earth's natural disasters are "God's wrath" to punish "sinners." The Indonesian tsunami in 2004 was caused by movement in tectonic plates and Robertson's assertion that it was God's punishment of Muslims is ignorant, absurd and evil. His claim that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment of the people in New Orleans was equally disgusting.

Reverends Graham and Robertson have become wealthy and famous by taking advantage of the ignorance of their followers, as well as the willingness of those so-called "Christians" to hate all non-Christians, in particular atheists and Muslims.

I want nothing to do with the God defined by Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson. They are not men of any God that I believe in.

  • 67 votes
#1.45 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:22 PM EST

Franklin Graham is a certified Carnival Barker.

Why Graham would back such a gross lie is anybody's guess, but we surely can NOT exclude the fact that Graham is either a terrible liar, a horrible fool, or a stupid racist.

Obama / Biden 2012

  • 69 votes
#1.46 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:27 PM EST

Interesting...Bush '43 was photographed holding hands with a Muslim Arab prince and entertaining him at a special barbecue in Crawford but no one thought Bush might be a Muslim? Even though Laura Adora was always forced to walk 2 steps behind her Crawford sheik?

Republicans have been reading too much Revelations. This isn't the end times when all must be converted to Christianity. But it does beg the question of what happens when a Jewish candidate chooses to run for the presidency. Or an American born muslim. One wonders what the okee dokes in DogPatch will complain about then.

  • 48 votes
#1.47 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:35 PM EST

Anybody who wants to, can go back over all my posts from other articles and determine my political bent. But I gotta say that most of the comments on this article are as un-liberal towards an honest answer to an inane reporter's question as any dogmatic conservative reaction that I've viewed.

Calling religious people as nuts or fanatic or unconstitutional for answering a really meaningless question is intolerance at its best.

With liberal comments like many of these, who needs conservatives to destroy rational discourse?

  • 14 votes
#1.48 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:37 PM EST

I think I just fell in love with Sarah. :)

Very good and thoughtful comments.

  • 16 votes
#1.49 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:38 PM EST

GuyLittle Comment collapsed by the community

In the Muslim religion, dogs are unclean and not allowed to travel in the same vehicle as the Muslim. Bo has never traveled in the same means of transportation with the first family.

Remember all the other presidents with their dogs coming off the plane with them???

Not the Obama's...

I'm guessing that you are trying in your own juvenile way to imply that President Obama is a Muslim because you have not witnessed his dog coming off of a plane. Really? That is at least as absurd as Franklin Graham's belief that religion is genetically passed from father to son.

You have no proof from anyone about their religion beyond their own claim of belief. None. You choose to believe that other people are Christians only because they state their belief, but you choose not to accept President Obama's word that he is a Christian. Obama is probably more of a Christian that most others because he made an adult decision on his faith and religious preference. Most others were brainwashed as children, a brainwashing that was accompanied by the implied threat that if they did not believe they would go to Hell, denied everlasting life, denied entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven and other such nonsense.

  • 36 votes
#1.50 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:41 PM EST

@LittleGuy here is POTUS with Bo in ride...

He isn't on top of the car in a crate...are you really that stupid?

  • 27 votes
#1.51 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:51 PM EST

Thanks, Jahmekan!

Greentimer,

I feel like I'm constantly posting this, but here's how I see it...

Nothing doesn't equal something. Conservatives seem to believe that NOT being allowed to dictate citizen's private choices, that somehow infringes on their own private choices. If they can't dictate who can marry who, does that mean they're forced to marry someone? If they can't dictate who can do what with their bodies, does that mean they're forced to have an abortion?

No. If you're pushing against a wall and you stop, does that mean the wall is now pushing you??? (Thanks Indie!)

You need to apply the "but for"test. But for the right's attempts to maintain the ban on gay marriage, would liberals be telling you who to marry? But for the attacks on women's bodies, would liberals be telling you what to do with yours? But for this passive aggressive, insinuation, about Obama's religion, which is a moot point anyway, would we be saying anything about their religion?

No. There is no "but for" with conservatives. But for their morals??? Well their morals, all of our morals are PERSONAL and aren't to be used to legislate.

Tolerance, doesn't mean passivity. I can tolerate that they'll be douchers such as this preacher, for as long as humanity exists. That doesn't mean I have to be passive in the face of his pandering.

That, I think, is the difference.

  • 54 votes
#1.52 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:57 PM EST

I wonder how many voting Christians there are? I am not saying this because I believe in what radical anythings say or do. I just like the humor when a group of people are so adamant about their point of view or a small group of people with the same view. Sometimes I find humor in the oddest places, I would be pretty funny to see the Christian fundamentalists win. The Left reactions and cranial explosions would be like watching a Mel Brooks movie. Hey Mel.....how about "Blazing Liberals" Mr Obama could play a mean sheriff. Mitt tell Rick to ride back and git a whole shytload of dimes!

  • 4 votes
#1.53 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:58 PM EST

There is a lot of judgement going around in a church that preaches against judgement. It seems ludicrous to me that we would be considering electing a President based on "I'm more Christian than you are", and this from people who claim to respect the Constitution.

  • 28 votes
#1.54 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:01 PM EST

Franklin is where he is by luck of birth. Were he not his fathers son, at best, he would be pounding the pulpit in some storefront church as Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist. Billy Graham welcomed Obama into his home just a few weeks back, prayed WITH him and welcomed the President praying for Graham, a humbling experience by Obama's public admission.

Funny, ain't it how the Teapublicans get all weepy about "religious liberty" when THEY are the first ones to start talking down other folks theology and religion and generally playing the religion card!

  • 36 votes
#1.55 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:05 PM EST

Sooo what your trying to say is just because someone says he has certain religious beliefs, it isn't necessarily true.

I'm looking at a mans actions, not his words..

  • 11 votes
#1.56 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:05 PM EST

Guy,

No, I think what we're trying to say is we don't give a rat's, fat, as*($ about what religion he is, seeing as it doesn't matter in the least, and that we have no interest in not taking his word for it.

We're saying that this is a ridiculous argument, that keeps getting inserted into our political discourse, in some sort of warpped attempt to discredit the man. And, furthermore, it's taking away from the things we should be debating in regards to his performance.

  • 40 votes
#1.57 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:13 PM EST

All the vitriol on this one vine shows why there can never be world peace folks. It's a darn shame. Opinions are like hind ends, everybody's is different and most of them usually stink.

  • 14 votes
#1.58 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:16 PM EST

So it just keeps coming down to this, doesn't it? Who cares about the economy, the wars, our troops, the unemployed, jobs, the deficit and resulting debt... who cares?

This has to be the lamest position taken by the right since the beginning of elections, yet they keep taking these positions. This conversation could make a life long Christian an atheist. It should make any reasonably thinking Republican an Independent. It should cause us all to scream in disgust.

Obama claims his faith to be Christian... that's all it takes, people... there is NO f*cking test!

Obama's father was Muslim. So WHAT! And what IF Obama was Muslim, should it matter? Only in the part of America I can't stand... the exclusionary side of us... the self righteous side of us... the side that harps on unfounded fear of other people for their gain.

Forgive you my a$$.

  • 47 votes
#1.59 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:16 PM EST

Now HOLD ON THERE. Prez O Has WHACKED Many Many islamic geeks in his first term; Obama Whacked Osama!! KingGeorgeThe VacuumBrained Never got one important islamic geek during his "Daddy'sToy" for me TWO terms. So what is ANYONE saying Prez O is an islamic geek? N O T T R U E AT ALL!!!!

  • 19 votes
#1.60 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:24 PM EST

This red herring again? This red herring!?!? AGAIN?!?!

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who is sick of this crap. However, I am aggravated to see individuals who still buy this crap after all these years.

Can't categorically say he's not a Muslim? What the hell is categorically supposed to mean? "Because you don't believe what I believe, the way I believe it, how I believe it, and goosestep to Jesus the way I say you should goosestep to Jesus, and because you don't openly persecute every Muslim on the face of the Earth you're going to burn and suffer and cry in Hell for all eternity!" Is that what that is supposed to mean?

It is attitudes like that which drive people screaming away from Christianity.

  • 34 votes
#1.61 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:36 PM EST

@ guylittle

In the Muslim religion, dogs are unclean and not allowed to travel in the same vehicle as the Muslim. Bo has never traveled in the same means of transportation with the first family.

Don't believe everything you've seen on Facebook (yes, that's where this latest bit of drivel is flying around).

Try some FACTS instead.

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=fqNZ94FVd2zQbM:&imgrefurl=http://doggies.com/blog/2012/02/01/obama-aide-takes-gibe-at-romney-over-dog-car-roof-incident/&docid=diC11zqcxPA8mM&imgurl=http://doggies.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/AxelrodObamaBoTweet.png&w=645&h=619&ei=NABET4iGOrTo2gXjyrGKCA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=340&sig=101007991958155839753&page=1&tbnh=142&tbnw=148&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=0CE4QrQMwAg&tx=108&ty=74

I'm looking at a mans actions, not his words.

Then, by looking at the above referenced photo ... you must admit that Obama's ACTIONS shows he's not a Muslim.

GOTCHA!!!! Ain't it fun!

  • 18 votes
#1.62 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:37 PM EST

I simply find it interesting with all of the individual's running around screaming for separation of church and state, that Graham is even allowed on public television to discuss his viewpoint concerning politics. Not to mention the bigotry of the Graham family just hit a new all time low with his very own opinion.

Evangelicals make me nauseous, this guy just makes me sick.

  • 29 votes
#1.63 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:38 PM EST

And, btw, for all of you arguing over a candidate's religion ... I suggest you re-read the Constitution ...

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Article VI -- Commonly Referred to as the "Religious Clause"

  • 31 votes
#1.64 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:40 PM EST

Why is it that none of the Repub Yahoos have anything to say about the problems we have a in this country? Why do the think they are running for Chief Bishop of the United States? Why can't we get these mud slinging jokers out of the bedrooms of common citizens and get them to tell us what they would do as president? Wouldn't that be a little more helpful to getting us to vote for them for PRESIDENT?

I'm still of the opinion that the Repub party has NO CANDIDATE for president. They HAVE NO IDEAS about how to run this country, so they ought to SIT DOWN and SHUT UP. The current president has NO IDEA EITHER.

More and more I'm solidifying my opinion that next fall I will be forced to vote NONE OF THE ABOVE for President and all of my CONGRESSMEN.

JOIN ME!

  • 8 votes
#1.65 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:47 PM EST

“When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get." Matthew 6:5

Who elected this guy the barometer of faith? He sounds a lot more like the hypocrites described above to me.

Osama Bin Laden did not exactly get a free pass....

  • 29 votes
#1.66 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:49 PM EST

This retarded "Reverend" sounds like that old crazy lady during the McCain debate. And this is why the GOP is such a mess. They have idiots like this showing us their true colors.

  • 21 votes
#1.67 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:50 PM EST
Comment author avatarS.UlmerExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

ok, so way up in this post, some guy named tony or something says obama had osama killed.

WRONG, the order for the death of bin laden was given by G W Bush! That order was never rescinded by the obamanation, and carried out by seal team six with information retrieved a GITMO, a base the obamanation vowed to close but could not (he found his power was not enough).

Is it just the press, or has everyone forgotten that then senator obama was sworn into office in chicago using the koran and not the bible? In his book, and in interviews ON TV, he claims the most "beautiful sound in the world, is the muslim call to prayer". In his world "apology" tour he claimed that the USA was not a christian nation. Shook hands with the likes of kadafi, and the muslim leaders of the world, wanting to strengthen ties with them. Only through international pressure did he support their ouster.

He IS a wolf in sheeps clothing, and one of the most dangerous people on the planet. those that refuse to see that fact, are duped and doomed.

  • 6 votes
#1.68 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:53 PM EST

Sad isn't it? My father was a staunch, stalwart Republican who went to the Methodist Church. I am a protestant monk (Episcopalian) who holds rather socialist views...No I don't mean Nazi!!! We monks live a rather socialist lifestyle: All things, held in common, doing without or giving something up so another person doesn't have to do without, understanding that we have a responsibility to take care of each other. Trying to live the Gospel message of Loving one's neighbor.

Religion is flawed because people are flawed. Religion has no place in politics and politics has no place in religion. Franklin Graham has embarrassed Christians who are true followers of The Prince of Peace (they do exist) and, I would imagine, his father Billy, who, to my knowledge, never said a bad thing about anybody. I grew up in a fundamentalist home but have come to understand that having a closed mind means having a closed heart. We cannot afford to be so mean and selfish!

  • 30 votes
#1.69 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:56 PM EST

If churches want to jump into the political arena then they need to pay taxes. They get this non tax status as there is a separation between church and state. If a church chooses otherwise then they need to be taxed.

  • 32 votes
#1.70 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:57 PM EST

Hmm, wonder who Graham thinks is maybe not possibly a Jew in government today? Apparently Daddy taught Graham that all non-true religious people need to first get a 'pass' from him before they may continue their beliefs! Definition of a Christian: someone who can't know anything because of mental impairment and must therefore rely on faith and a stern hierarchy of people better than they are to obey God's law.

  • 6 votes
#1.71 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:58 PM EST

Wrong S. Ulmer, Obama had to authorize the mission because it was inside a sovereign country. The info was collected in Pakistan, NOT GITMO. Obama was not sworn in on the Koran, that was Keith Ellison from Minnesota. So what if he said that. It is a mezmerizing sound. We aren't a Christian nation, just ask John Adams. Never shook Kadafi's hand and shaking hands with someone doesn't convert one to Islam.

  • 31 votes
#1.72 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:01 PM EST

Do you care what graham thinks? Are his opinions news? Must be a slow day.

  • 9 votes
#1.73 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:03 PM EST

I swear some days when I read the news it feels like I’m living in Iran. These “Holier than thou Christian” types just keep crawling out of the woodwork to insult the President of the United States. This guy is just another “Evangelical” con artist collecting large sums of cash from suckers willing to believe he’s their savior. It is disgusting how far religion in America has been driven off course by right wing Republican politicians and jokers like this Graham character. I have said this before, if these people want to play in the arena of public politics then they should not enjoy tax free status……………..TAX THEM TILL THEY BLEED!

  • 28 votes
#1.74 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:07 PM EST

The GOP better step lightly here. A lot of independents said rhetoric like this, is what pushed them away from republicans in the 2008 election. Many have already turned away from Romney, because of all of his negative ads from the super-PAC's.

  • 13 votes
#1.75 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:09 PM EST

Sarah way back at # 1.52,

my fault for not making my point more clearly. I agree pretty much with what I believe you to be saying, that not to speak out against bad policy is to enable that bad policy to grow.

Mr. Graham offered what sounds like an honest answer to a goofy question. The reporter baited us with a question to which no useful answer could be provided. I mean what does Mr. Graham's opinion of the candidates' religion add to the national discourse. The reporter baited Graham, but Graham did not triangulate to politely demur. He simply answered a question.

"He has said he’s a Christian, so I just have to assume that he is.”

Graham said nothing about dictating any of his beliefs to anybody else, and did not complain about not being able to control anybody's life. In any kind of arguement, one dimishes one's own point by coming out four-square against what their opponent did not say.

Some posters here are too easily baited. Mr Graham is not running for anything. He has strong, apparently intolerant views of what he believes is Christianity, but denouncing a preacher for replying to a baited question as if he speaks for Christians everywhere simply elevates him from a preacher to spokesman for the entire religious community.

One must push back against the big government political conservatives who wish to control our lives, like Rick Santorum, and against the collectivist conservatives who wish for corporate control of our lives like Romney. But using Mr. Graham as a straw man and condemning all religion (many other posters, not yours) based on extrapolation of fairly benign comments (I dint see the interview, only read the article) makes us look irrational and intolerant.

Peace, and thank you for your reasoned reply.

  • 8 votes
#1.76 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:11 PM EST

Rev. Graham couldn't say for certain that Obama is a Christian. "You have to ask him. I cannot answer that question for anybody." Blowing the old dog whistle Graham continued talking in code saying "...He has said he's a Christian, so I just have to assume that he is."

But apparently though Graham doesn't know any of the candidates, he CAN answer that question for Santorum, saying "that he's confident Santorum is a fellow Christian." In this case Graham only needs the power of observation. "His values are so clear on moral issues, no question about it," he told the Morning Joe panel.

This made me laugh pretty hard. Graham makes both of these statements within minutes of one another. Oh the hypocrisy.

And then of course Graham goes on to diss Gingrich--at least he uses the same dog whistle here, but then he continues his bigotry saying he "cast doubt on whether Romney's Mormonism is compatible with Christianity." How can any Mormon, no matter how much of a Teabagger they are, have anything to do with Evangelicals like Graham and the Republican Party?

Let the all the zealots come out of the woodwork and out from under their rocks! It's making the Shiavo incident look like a Sunday picnic. Let the culture war continue - woohoo!

  • 22 votes
#1.77 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:11 PM EST

This is getting interesting now. First the Church makes claims that the government is interfering with its right of independence..because government and politics are not to be mixed..yet. here we have a preacher or whatever steping his foot into that same area...the churches are good at doing this...making one claim while doing something else. For Graham to step into this makes no sence to me...he for sure IS NOT his father....who cares what he thinks..or what the Pope thinks for that matter....I see little difference in what the church claims you must do and our government doing the same thing. First admendment rights also give us the right to do what WE feel is right..not what some one else says you should do as all churches do today. Doesn't anyone find it interesting that churches are more concerned with what rights women should have...and less about protecting children for sorry preachers or bishops or whatever.

  • 13 votes
#1.78 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:16 PM EST

We are the United States of America and not the United States only for Christians.

This is so, SO true! Now if someone could PLEASE find a way to force this concept through to all of the teapub candidates! Believe what you will when it comes to a deity - or lack thereof - but keep your religious beliefs OUT OF THE WORLD OF CIVIL LAW!

  • 13 votes
#1.79 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:16 PM EST

Who really cares what this guy says? Why even waste energy on this story, better yet why is this a story? No one could be a true christian and a politician at the same time, it would be impossible. Now maybe believing in "God" you could somehow justify it.

  • 10 votes
#1.80 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:21 PM EST

Graham Jr. needs to shut it. As MANY have already pointed out in this discussion, the founding fathers included the separation of church and state for a reason(s). One reason (among many) why they left England was religious extremism. Extremism, whichever form it takes, be it religious, political or even sports-related (yes, I'm referring to the so-called "soccer hooligans" or, for that matter, any sports fans who would riot, even if their team WINS) is dangerous beyond words.

I emphasize, ALL extremism is dangerous. A little less "black and white", and a little more gray instead. Gray is where reality really resides. We all have our self-serving interests, but often we have to think of the common good, and not just our own needs. Everything else is self-serving BS.

  • 13 votes
#1.81 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:24 PM EST

And the final irony, what if the president WAS a Muslim? Of course he's not (try listening to his speech at the recent Prayer Meeting), but what if he was? Yes, let's have that conversation. Freedom of religion only applies to Christians, and only certain Christians, and Jews when Christians are in the mood, but Muslims, atheists, and all "OTHERS" no freedoms for you!

  • 17 votes
#1.82 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:25 PM EST

Rev. Franklin Graham, the son of evangelist Billy Graham

SORRY, NO! franklin graham is not the son of billy graham as his father would never have shown disrespect to the office of the presidency nor would he question whether a man was a christian or not when he claimed christ.

franklin is not the son of his father.

  • 8 votes
#1.83 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:27 PM EST

Greentimer,

I get what you're saying. I did see the interview, and Mr. Graham spent a considerable amount of time meandering around the question and insinuating that there is something exotic, dangerous, and unAmerican about Obama. It was quite clear, that he was passive agressively, stirring up a very ridiculous pot of crap.

The appropriate answer would've been, something along the lines of "We don't have religious tests for office, so this question is moot, nor should I be opining on politics, seeing as I benefit from tax exempt status due to being a religious leader."

Alas, I fear that will never happen.

  • 22 votes
#1.84 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:28 PM EST

Why are these high profile Christians so unlike Christ?

Follow the money.

  • 21 votes
#1.85 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:30 PM EST

What a disgrace but the more important part is why they did not escort the scam artist down!

He should never have been allowed to get as far as he did...He is not his fathers son...

  • 8 votes
#1.86 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:33 PM EST

What struck me as odd was what Rev. Graham said when asked if Santorum was a Christian,

"His values are so clear on moral issues, no question about it."

Is having the 'right' values on moral issues what makes someone a Christian? Not according to the Bible. Rev. Graham needs to re-evaluate his statements, and that re-evaluation should probably include an apology to the President.

  • 14 votes
#1.87 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:38 PM EST

Wait a minute! Graham believes that Santorum is a Christian but he is not sure about Gingrich? But, they are BOTH Catholics. If one of them is a Christian, so is the other! And, so is John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi, and a whole host of other Catholic politicians, be they liberal or conservative.

No one is qualified to judge another person's religion. That is between the individual and God. It is time for Americans to stop obsessing on a candidate's religion!

  • 12 votes
#1.88 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:39 PM EST

As usual with Franklin Graham, he is chumming for $$$. This is the guy who after his mother went into a coma, changed the place she was to be buried against her stated wishes. He buried her at HIS new Billy Graham World in Charlotte, NC, instead of in her beloved Montreat, NC. I would bet his father does not know he is going around spouting off like this now. Anything to get people to send $$$ to him. It will catch up with him sooner or later. Many friends and familyof Ruth Graham will have real prayers answered when it does! Franklin Graham worships m-o-n-e-y.

  • 8 votes
#1.89 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:40 PM EST

If Christ were here there is one thing he would not be--a Christian.
- Mark Twain's Notebook

There has been only one Christian. They caught him and crucified him--early.
- Mark Twain' Notebook, 1898

"It ain´t the parts of the Bible that I can´t understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand."
Mark Twain

"I bring you this stately matron named Christendom, returning bedraggled, besmirched, and dishonored from pirate raids in Kiao-Chow, Manchuria, South Africa, and the Phillipines, with her soul full of meanness, her pocket full of boodle, and her mouth full of pious hypocrisies. Give her soap and a towel, but hide the looking-glass."
Mark Twain

"Loyalty to a petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul."
Mark Twain

"Christianity will doubtless still survive in the earth ten centuries hence- stuffed and in a museum."
Mark Twain

  • 16 votes
#1.90 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:40 PM EST

What a nut job must need more donations .............. Can't believe I used to watch his father on TV I guess they just can't stand having a Black President and NO I'm not Black.

  • 9 votes
#1.91 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:44 PM EST

Sarah-3043284

If Christians want us to cease seeing them as, well, crazy, they need to denounce crap like this. Just like they are always screaming about Muslims denouncing terrorism, they need to call this guy out on his BS.

Excellent reminder of this point, and once again in regard to right-wing hypocrisy...

Really this applies to Teapublicans in general like Santorum who fail to correct supporter comments that the president is a "devout Muslim" and is in office illegally. It shows that Santorum lacks any iota of leadership -- At least McCain corrected this crap when he was campaigning -- and also lacks individual accountability for example in regard to comments made by his main donor Foster Friess.

Moderates in the GOP -- You are condoning this behavior with their silence. Save your Party conservatives and police yourself!

  • 17 votes
#1.92 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:46 PM EST

raddave, you are completely wrong. The obamanation did NOT order the death of bin laden. In fact it was a suprise to him when he got the news.

  • 5 votes
#1.93 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:51 PM EST

Best comment of the day:

I'm at the end of my rope with these, "I'm Soooo Christian (but still manage to hate gays, Mexicans, Muslims, women, and poor people)" people.

Sometimes the acorn falls pretty far from the tree. Just when it seems like reality is coming back into focus across the land we get a resurgence of Donald "Birther" Trump followed closely by Franklin "He's a Muslim" Graham.

The GOP presidential campaign just keeps getting crazier and crazier. They will accomplish what Barack Obama could not have done unassisted: a landslide reelection for our President.

  • 16 votes
#1.94 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:55 PM EST

Ulmer,

Just out of curiosity, can you let us know where you're getting this information from?

Common,

I missed you in the "illegals are the devil" debate yesterday! You always supply, well, common sense.

  • 8 votes
#1.95 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:57 PM EST

I wonder if Graham wasn't just being a good soldier and made this idiotic remark just to minimize and draw the attention away from Santorum, who is the candidate I would guess he supports to win.

This kind of thing might give Santorum's campaign a little breathing room to rework their strategies in crafting what they let Rick say from this point on out on the trail. Once you reach front runner status, every word is parsed for meaning and critiqued in real time for the continual news feeds.

  • 2 votes
#1.96 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:06 PM EST

@ s.ulmer

Is it just the press, or has everyone forgotten that then senator obama was sworn into office in chicago using the koran and not the bible?

No one had forgotten anything. We just know better and you have no clue. Just another troll passing around stupidity.

The "claim" is a mistaken reference to Minnesota congressman Keith Ellison NOT Obama.

Source: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

And yet another stupid comment ...

The obamanation did NOT order the death of bin laden. In fact it was a suprise to him when he got the news.

You obviously have no clue how the military works. As CinC, Obama most certainly DID order it.

At 8:20am on Friday, April 29th in the Diplomatic Room, President Obama met with National Security Adviser Tom Donilon, White House chief of staff William Daley, White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan and deputy National Security Adviser Denis McDonough and gave the order for the operation.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/05/obama-gives-order-bin-laden-is-killed-white-house-time-line/

As I had the fun of saying to Guylittle a bit ago --- GOTCHA ... and isn't it fun!

  • 13 votes
#1.97 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:12 PM EST

A lot of posters here think that Graham's comments are unimportant, shouldn't be a news story, etc. That is not true. Quietly, unbeknownst to us secularists, in religious 'education' courses (religious schools, curriculum provided to home-schoolers, etc) as well as in churches and on Fox, a previously discredited definition of 'religious freedom' has been promulgated, and a whole generation of young believers have been taught to believe that our founders wanted a state RUN BY the religious. Religious freedom means the freedom to try to use democratic means to force society by law to live by religious morals. As evidence that it SHOULD BE this way, they point to the fact that it HAS ALWAYS been this way: witness the plethora of moral laws littering our law books, both state and federal. And they are right about that.

The Tea Party is essentially the political arm of the evangelical christians in this country. The Graham name is nothing short of nobility for these people; his words hold more sway than any politician could. They line up in lockstep behind religious leaders like him. So if we want to know where the tea party is coming from, and what they believe, the press would do well to ignore everybody EXCEPT these leaders.

We are up against a religious party, especially if Santorum gets the nod. We need to deal with it, not ignore it.

  • 15 votes
#1.98 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:15 PM EST

What exactly does it mean to say that 'Islam has gotten a "free pass" under Obama'?

Does that mean we're supposed to discriminate against Muslims on the basis of religious belief? The clear implication is that there is something wrong with Islam, and by extension, something wrong with President Obama, since it's questionable whether or not he is Muslim.

  • 11 votes
#1.99 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:16 PM EST

Sarah,

You're right, of course (should I say, "If you say that's what he said, then I guess that's what he said" ?... just a joke, honest ... too easy to pass up). I just don't like irrational vitriol - especially when I concur with its premise.

The survival of MSNBC, FNC, CNN and MSN.com depends on controversy, not reasonable discourse, and their writers and guests understand that (and I also subscribe to that). If you want to hear the type of answer you suggest, you should probably catch Charlie Rose, or Ideas In Action, or some other programs on PBS.

O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us!"
(English: And would some Power the small gift give us To see ourselves as others see us!
Robert Burns in To a Louse
  • 3 votes
#1.100 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:32 PM EST

There’re a lot of liberal restricted academic theorists out today!

  • 3 votes
#1.101 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:42 PM EST

It IS the truth, reported ont CNN,NBC,ABCandFOX, yet the public seems to have the memory of goldfish.

    #1.102 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:53 PM EST

    "But Graham also said he couldn't "categorically" say Obama wasn't a Muslim, in part, because Islam has gotten a "free pass" under Obama. Graham also said the Muslim world sees Obama as a "son of Islam," because the president's father and grandfather were Muslim."

    Whoops, it's time for the liberal media to 'demonize' Graham for voicing thoughts on a lot of people's minds. It's not considered 'Politically Correct' to do that.

    • 4 votes
    #1.103 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:58 PM EST

    Sarah, thank you so much. I always feel that the world is a better, saner place when I read your posts.

    • 5 votes
    #1.104 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:02 PM EST

    Marty in Boulder "It is time for Americans to stop obsessing on a candidate's religion!"

    Very true, but it's also time for politicians to stop claiming to be a ??Religion??, and then espousing policies that directly contradict the teachings of that faith. Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

    • 6 votes
    #1.105 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:08 PM EST

    Ulmer

    I believe that you've been told it was reported on those channels, but I know you didn't see it yourself, because I watch those channels (except Fox) and distinctly remember the story, particularly the photos of Obie sitting in the control room with military staff waiting anxiously for word on the operation he authorized. I know it must be very difficult admitting that Obie did anything you agree with, but there's an easy way to solve this: everybody else posted links to the news stories on those channels, why don't you?

    It's funny, the first thing Obie did in office was give us one of the largest tax cuts in our history, and the next week we had people standing on the street with signs demanding that he not raise our taxes. I don't know what world these guys live in, but it is obviously impenetrable by reality.

    • 6 votes
    #1.106 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:09 PM EST

    It IS the truth, reported ont CNN,NBC,ABCandFOX, yet the public seems to have the memory of goldfish

    Prove it.

    Submit links from ANY of those news organizations that show that. Go ahead. We're waiting. We've submitted proof for OUR assertions.

    • 5 votes
    #1.107 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:12 PM EST

    Franklin Graham, isn't he one of those hate filled religious zealots from the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka? Always ready to cast the first stone! I mean he's just like Fred Phelps and his family followers. Typical conservative wanting to keep government out of religion but wanting to impose religion into government! What a creep!!

    • 9 votes
    #1.108 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:13 PM EST

    Sarah-3043284 "Nothing doesn't equal something."

    Are you sure? Physicists say that the whole Universe sprang from 'nothing'. Here's a link;

    http://movies.yahoo.com/news/physicist-writes-universe-evolved-nothing-160221712.html

    Sorry - off topic, but I couldn't resist.

    ON topic, Graham was foolish for trying to answer a 'baited question', but he's entitled to his opinion, just like everyone else. Similarly, people can choose to pay attention or not.

    • 3 votes
    #1.109 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:18 PM EST

    Very true, but it's also time for politicians to stop claiming to be a ??Religion??, and then espousing policies that directly contradict the teachings of that faith. Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

    ROY,

    I assume you are talking about EVERY SINGLE Republican who claims to be a "Christian", yet harbors a vehement hatred for the poor... directly contradicting the teachings of Jesus Christ.

    I am so glad to see you finally pointing out the Republicans for what they truly are. They are so far removed from Christianity that it is laughable for them to make any religious claim.

    • 7 votes
    #1.110 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:25 PM EST

    IndieParty "ROY, I assume you are talking about EVERY SINGLE Republican"

    I made no distinction based on political Party. It applies to all of them equally.

    • 1 vote
    #1.111 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:32 PM EST

    S.Ulmer

    Hey bud, do yourself and us a favor... spend about 20 minutes searching on the subjects you've commented on. When I do that I find overwhelming evidence contrary to your claims. But, listen, I could be wrong... if you find a good solid source for your claims, bring 'em here! I'll be the first to support truth if that's how it turns out. Thanks.

    • 6 votes
    #1.112 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:35 PM EST

    ROY WILSON-336103

    Marty in Boulder "It is time for Americans to stop obsessing on a candidate's religion!"

    Very true, but it's also time for politicians to stop claiming to be a ??Religion??, and then espousing policies that directly contradict the teachings of that faith. Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

    Actually, this comment kinda surprises me. It's a pretty general statement (I suspect on purpose), but it goes directly at what Santorum and Graham were implying... but here's the deal..

    Is it hypocrisy to be Roman Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Muslim, or Hindu, but to govern in such a way as to benefit the majority of Americans... even if not strictly per their religion? You are implying that it is, yet that is EXACTLY the message Romney, Obama, Kennedy, and others are stressing or had stressed. Kennedy was a great example... he was President for all and set his religion aside when making decisions that affected the people.

    That aside, I'm sure you're referencing Obama in your statement (yes, I'll bite), do you have specific decisions that are contrary to Christian values?

    • 6 votes
    #1.113 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:42 PM EST

    Last week the Republicans continued to push the birth control issue... bringing together a council of old men to discuss women health issues, while not allowing any woman to speak on the issue.

    This week we get money-grubbing con artist pushing the religious angle... bringing back the "Muslim scare-tactic".

    I will be honest, I never imagined the party was capable of going lower than the whole birther issue... but now we are seeing a completely new level of depravity. It reminds me of a quote: "Christ, save me from your followers!"

    • 7 votes
    #1.114 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:51 PM EST

    Tolerance has found its limits. Let the preacher speak at his peril. The attack on the church is building. Ready the lions.

    • 1 vote
    #1.115 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:52 PM EST

    IndieParty

    The Republicans claim a "side-ways" view of supporting the poor. In their minds, apparently, if you are poor, we are not doing you any favors by providing you temporary support. The notion is that temporary support only provides disincentives to the poor to work their own way out of their circumstance. I guess if you think you are above all others, in some way, you can't find a way to trust that the poor hate where they are and that temporary support is EXACTLY what they need to level off and then dig themselves out of poverty. But they just can't seem to see it that way.

    • 3 votes
    #1.116 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:54 PM EST

    I would love to break my foot off in some of these nutjob's behinds, but I can't, I'm too busy holding an Aspirin between my knees. Wouldn't want to get knocked up now, would I?

    • 12 votes
    #1.117 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:54 PM EST

    The only people who see Obama as a "son of Islam" are the most ignorant people in this country, and unfortunately we seem to be overrun with them.

    • 7 votes
    #1.118 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:55 PM EST

    Ok I'm curious, Obama's parents were not christians or at least his mom was not a practicing christian. Has anybody asked when he became a christian? After going to Trinty the racist church for 20 years is this how he learned about how to be a good christian? Maybe this is why Michelle Obama was only proud to be an American just a couple of years ago. Such a lot is to be learned from a guy we really no little about!

    • 5 votes
    #1.119 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:57 PM EST

    Geo,

    Again, we don't give a flying phazoo. He isn't our Pastor in Chief, or our Preacher in Chief. He's our Commander in Chief, and he has every legal right to hold the office. His religion is none of our business.

    Like him or hate him, you're entitled to do either. What we aren't entitled to do is present fallacy as fact. The fact is, that his religion plays no role in whether he can be our President. If nothing else, at least have some respect for the office, if not the man.

    • 10 votes
    #1.120 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:04 PM EST

    I would love to break my foot off in some of these nutjob's behinds, but I can't, I'm too busy holding an Aspirin between my knees. Wouldn't want to get knocked up now, would I?

    Sarah,

    LOL... after hearing all the "Aspirin between the knees" comments last week, my gf and I put that idea to the test. Unfortunately there is a flaw in that conservative logic, because we found at least 5 different positions where a woman is able to maintain an "Aspirin between her knees".

    I don't think conservatives really thought that one through, because there are obvious workarounds. Maybe THAT is why it never stopped any pregnancies.

    • 6 votes
    #1.121 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:08 PM EST

    Devil'Son...

    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie."

    That seems to apply more to Obama than the conservatives.

    tjohn_missouri....is demonstrating exactly that...he's buying (or selling) a BIG lie. Graham is in now way, shape or form affiliated with Westboro Baptist Church. That whole "church" is a bunch of psycho, who are nowhere's NEAR representative of Christianity. They are a legion of, what? 20-30 members?

    No GOP "trotted out this Graham" to speak for the party or any candidate. This is HIS opinion and no one elses, so don't be so quick to assign it to ANY other person or party. Should we assign the Rev. Wrights comments to the Democratic party or, how about Barack Obama. Wright was his mentor and pastor and married the Obama's and baptized their children. So wouldn't it then stand to reason, that Wright SPEAKS FOR Obama?

    The Constitution FORBIDS the Government from forcing citizens to be, accept or practice any religion, and it also FORBIDS the Government from interferring in or denying citizens their right to their religious beliefs and tenants. There are NO examples of any religion breaking, or even attempting to break that law. Still, it didn't stop Obama from doing it. Obama thinks the Constitution doesn't apply to him. That's just scary.

    • 3 votes
    #1.122 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:09 PM EST

    Sarah, Hard to respect a person who quits his church for political reasons!

    • 5 votes
    #1.123 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:10 PM EST

    Indie,

    It's a real pain in the butt when I inevitably have to walk somewhere also. They definitely didn't think about the adverse effects it would have on mobility either.

    LOL

    Geo,

    I didn't say you had to like the man. I said have some respect for the office and the facts. The facts being that that religion has no bearing on the presidency.

    • 6 votes
    #1.124 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:11 PM EST

    Tolerance has reached it limits. Let the preacher speak at his peril. The attack on the church is afoot. Ready the lions.

      #1.125 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:16 PM EST

      Hmmmm, Lemme think heah now. Hmmm. Lessee, umm, We chose to have our son circumcised just after He was born. I was never circumcised. My mothers roots go all the way back to Ukraine. Jewish as a matter of fact. She was though, a life long Christian. My Boy a Jew? Hmmmm, was mama a Jew? My son is a Christian. Chooses to be. Gwaddamn!, what did my poor ole Daddy git hisself into? I,m a Free Thinker. Makes sense to me. Daddy's folks were a clan of "hell raising Scots. Got mixed up with Irish early on, then mixed some with Blacks. Hmmm, oh yeah, quite a bit of inbreeding on his side as well. Oh yeah! Gwaddamn!, one of my mothers great grand mothers was a Cherokee Indian woman. Am I just another heathern? My father was never a Christian that He knowed about. He said He was a Baptist through and through, and not a gwaddamn thing more. Well, I ain't gonna worry about it. Both my Mother and Father declared we were all damn fine Americans and I believe them. The goddamn Reverend Franklin Graham can take his goofy racial and religious genealogy and stick it up his money begging ass.

      • 5 votes
      #1.126 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:19 PM EST

      Geo: what's your point? Are you claiming that religion is handed down from parent to child like some kind of genetic code? That you want Obama's parents to pass some kind of Christian test...that he should? (you do understand that'd be unconstitutional?) Exactly what kind of American are you that you claim to be arbiter of someone else's faith?

      • 5 votes
      #1.127 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:19 PM EST

      The goddamn Reverend Franklin Graham can take his goofy racial and religious genealogy and stick it up his money begging ass.

      I wish there was a way that I could slow clap via the internet. Now that's just funny and refreshing. Way to cut through the BS.

      • 3 votes
      #1.128 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:22 PM EST

      The US is the only westernized country where this religious claptrap is tossed around like a political football. If individuals in any other western (dare I say civilized) country were to use such tactics as Sanitorium and his minions are doing, they would promptly loose all credibility. I hope there is a plurality in the US who will follow this criteria and dismiss these religious radical fools at the polls.

      • 4 votes
      #1.129 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:30 PM EST

      I've had this garbage up to my neck! I admit to not reading the entire article, I read until I started raving at the screen. This is my demand of my government........since religions have now stepped into the arena and started endorsing candidates and started to try to make policy and began to tell us what laws they will abide by and what they won't the TAX FREE STATUS IS OVER! I demand that all religious organizations be taxed for their cash accounts, taxed on their land holdings, and taxed for their outrageously ostentatious buildings! You want to be involved in the politics of this country you pay the price.

      • 10 votes
      #1.130 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:31 PM EST

      What about separation of church and state? An old concept and easy to understand. The conservatives are well aware, they can say anything and do, to brainwash the drones. Amazing how this Islam thing with Obama is still floating out there. Is this a racial thing because it sure isn't very Christian? Leave it to the so-called Christians and their hubris to sink to new lows to demonize the president.

      Duhhh, Separation of Church and State!

      • 5 votes
      #1.131 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:33 PM EST

      Like father.....NOT like son.

      • 2 votes
      #1.132 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:39 PM EST

      LOL obviously the Republican party has given up, so they've decided to go full retard.

      • 5 votes
      #1.133 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:40 PM EST

      LMarcT "ROY WILSON-336103 Is it hypocrisy to be Roman Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Muslim, or Hindu, but to govern in such a way as to benefit the majority of Americans... even if not strictly per their religion? ...That aside, I'm sure you're referencing Obama in your statement (yes, I'll bite), do you have specific decisions that are contrary to Christian values?"

      No, it is not hypocrisy to expect our lawmakers to follow the laws, even when they may contradict their religious beliefs, but I do have a problem with politicians that 'actively espouse' policies that directly contradict their 'supposed' religious beliefs. That is what I consider to be religious hypocrisy.

      And no, I was not referring to Obama, but I would apply that comment to Nancy Pelosi. Of course, she's from San Francisco, so that doesn't seem to be a problem with her constituents there. I would also apply that to hypocritical legislators that espouse 'family values', but have secret affairs on the side - and several Republicans come to mind in this regard. I also have a BIG problem with legislators that publicly espouse certain policies, and then vote in a completely contradictory manner - and that applies to most politicians of both parties. Refreshingly, there are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

      • 3 votes
      #1.134 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:47 PM EST

      Sigh...Franklin, just because Pat Robertson is a feeble whackadoodle these days, it does not mean that we need a new one....

      • 5 votes
      #1.135 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:53 PM EST

      Sarah

      What a charlaton. Watching this, this morning made me want to vomit. It was a beautiful illustration of pandering to an ignorant and paranoid base.

      Remember the principle "beware of pointing, there are three fingers pointing back at you.

      What is your faith? How many years of Training in your faith? How many advanced studies have you completed? Are you fluent in Greek? Are you fluent in Hebrew?

      What is your qualifications to judge this man to be a charlatan?

      Franklin was the proverbial prodigal son. He is now following in his father's footsteps. Few there are that dare to follow any leader, let alone one so greatly respected. No matter what he does, he will get critized harsher than his father ever was criticized.

      According to Scripture, Franklin has all authority to make distinctions of people's spiritual conditions and is responsible for aiding in the growth of those who profess, and correcting those that are errant.

      You see, Sarah, you and many others only understand legalisms. Law is only there to be a restraint to those who don't believe. Without it, mankind would destroy himself, and anything remotely close to him. It should serve as a constant reminder of how degenerate we are and can become without help. If you prefer to stay in legalisms, then you can never have even a remote understanding of the spiritual.

      If you don't get to the point of understanding the spiritual, then you have no hope beyond the life of your own body.

      • 4 votes
      #1.136 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:54 PM EST

      I knew when I viewed the clip that the liberal haters would jump on this. I have not been disappointed. You people are sickening.

      • 5 votes
      #1.137 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:55 PM EST

      GuyLittle

      It seem to me, looking at his actions and watching who he has and does affilite himself with would seem to me to give you plenty of reason to question what he says. Add to that he never follows through on his promises and spins it all, He could tell us anything and we would question it. After all, fool me once shame on you , fool me twice, shame on me!!!

      • 1 vote
      #1.138 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:55 PM EST

      DB,

      You see, Sarah, you and many others only understand legalisms.

      Well seeing as legalisms are all that matter in regards to our laws and government, I'm okay with you thinking that.

      My spirituality, everyone's and anyone's spirituality, is personal, and I have no right to make arguments pertaining to our secular society, based on it. I'd greatly appreciate you making that distinction as well, but alas, I don't think it's gonna happen.

      To say it succinctly, my faith is none of your business. It's between me and whatever, if any, God I believe in, and I'm not presumptuous enough to claim that it's the "law" or the "word of God". All I can say, is that it's what I believe.

      The law is the law. My religion, your religion, anyone's religion is not.

      • 7 votes
      #1.139 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:01 PM EST

      Ap, I never questioned his faith. Just questioned why he would let a racist marry him and baptise his children then quit the church because of some bad press. What kind of a man does this? Do you think it might be a matter of convienience? Would you quit on a pastor you knew for 20 years or would you stand behind him in times of trouble? Also I would like to know why he became a christian?

      • 1 vote
      #1.140 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:05 PM EST

      Greentimer, before you tear into another person's post and snidely suggest they read the article instead of "reading into" what they want, perhaps you should follow your own advice. If you will re-read the article, you may notice the following quotation by Graham, "I think Newt is a Christian, at least he has told me that he is." Perhaps, you owe Joann an apology. Sometimes we get caught up in our own self and assume that we are always right.

      • 3 votes
      #1.141 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:08 PM EST

      Aggie

      You said the constitution forbids the GOVERNMENT from doing certain things, then say that no RELIGION has done those things. I'm not even sure what category of fallacy that falls under. Religion is not forbidden to do anything under the constitution, the government is.

      Unfortunately, the government has long since violated that agreement on behalf of the dominant religion in this country, christianity. Not only has our government established this religion (recently by maintaining tax-free status for christian political lobbyists and giving the church taxpayer money to perform 'social services' *thanks Bush*), but they have also passed laws on behalf of christianity, in which the rest of us are forced to live by christian morality. This all happened long before Obie got into office.

      Or do you think there is some other reason Mormons can't practice polygamy? Christians are against gays - OMG, look at all those laws forbidding gays from various things. What a coincidence. Anti-abortion, ditto. Anti-women's rights, ditto. Boy, isn't it weird that all these christian morals the preachers shout from their pulpits end up as laws forbidding citizens from acting on their own moral beliefs?

      Madison said that freedom of religion is 'quite obviously a man's freedom to act according to his conscience.' Right now, somewhere close to 50% of America does not possess that freedom, because of the institution of christian morality into our laws. There have been efforts to gain that elusive freedom in the last decades, a few moral laws were finally struck down by the SCOTUS, a few more rescinded by politicians. But the church has reared its ugly head, and our 'divisive' partisanship comes in large part from the fact that the christian party (which makes up so much of the GOP these days) wants to reinstate those mistakes. They want the country to reverse course and reengage in restricting religious freedom for the rest of us.

      So christians, here's the deal: when you leave us alone, we will leave you alone. For reasons which continue to baffle us, they'll never agree to that.

      • 6 votes
      #1.142 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:22 PM EST

      rev graham is a jackhole just like his father he says he's a christian but i don't believe it he's the son of the GOP

      • 3 votes
      #1.143 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:28 PM EST

      Does anyone frankly give one giant TURD what this guy has to say? Another religious fanatic talking out his sigmoid about nothing. Keep going GOP....push that bus right over the cliff!

      • 5 votes
      #1.144 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:36 PM EST

      American Girl-724855

      Franklin Graham is a certified Carnival Barker.

      Why Graham would back such a gross lie is anybody's guess, but we surely can NOT exclude the fact that Graham is either a terrible liar, a horrible fool, or a stupid racist.

      Obama / Biden 2012

      The reason I believe is he wants the tp'ers and gNOp to protect the Bush tax cuts and give them MORE tax cuts so their followers can give their "churches" even more tax free money to line their pockets with.

      He sites his fear Obama will make them hire anybody, even those Graham doesn't agree with. Translation: I don't want no homo's working for me. No way no how.

      Tax the hell out of churches, not just start, but go back 100 years for back taxes.

      • 3 votes
      #1.145 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:38 PM EST

      It's truly enjoyable how outraged the human secularism zealots get when somebody lands a good solid, accurate zinger on THEIR "messiah"! Heh,heh.

      • 1 vote
      #1.146 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:45 PM EST

      Sarah

      To say it succinctly, my faith is none of your business. It's between me and whatever, if any, God I believe in, and I'm not presumptuous enough to claim that it's the "law" or the "word of God". All I can say, is that it's what I believe.

      Obviously, you don't understand that in the posts you make, you are spreading your religion, and are quite intollerant of other's views . . .

      Instead of hiding the great light of your religion, name it, so other who believe similarly can follow!

      • 1 vote
      #1.147 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:52 PM EST

      DB,

      Obviously, you don't understand that in the posts you make, you are spreading your religion, and are quite intollerant of other's views . . .

      Oh how clever you are, trying to portray secularism as its own religion. Unfortunately, you are wrong and simply parroting the right wingers in a last ditch attempt to save your ship from sinking.

      What does secularism look like? What does neutrality of the government pertaining to religion look like? It looks like no religion. Nothing doesn't equal something.

      If the appearance of no religion, or secularism, constituted a sanctioning of no religion at all, we would have a serious and exhausting problem with the wording of the 1st Amendment. We would have only two options...

      1. To either write in every law, on every government building, in every court opinion, in every "everything", that the lack of religious content within the substance of the "thing" didn't constitute a state sanctioning of no religion over any religion.

      or

      2. We would somehow have to represent every, single, religion on the planet, in every one of those "things".

      Good thing, most people understand, that what you just posted is, at best illogical, and at worst, plain dumb.

      So, let's review, legalism in an argument pertaining to a secular society is appropriate, and really, the only source of authority. Religion... Not so much.

      • 7 votes
      #1.148 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:06 PM EST

      Roy Wilson=load of crap as always.

      Isn't Franklin involved in a nasty little family squabble over control of his dad's "empire"????? I believe he forced his mothers body to be buried in front of his new Graham museum over his mother's prior objections. She wanted to be buried in the trees I think. Typical of these new mega buck preachers. His dad was someone to respect. Franklin, not so much.

      Guy who says obama never rides or is seen with his dog so he must be muslim????? Someone please put this man out of his misery... rampant ignorance can be so dibilitating...

      • 6 votes
      #1.149 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:01 PM EST

      @DB Akron: Better be careful. You're generally all over the place with your religious beliefs. Newt's gotten himself into a real mess with his careless religious interloping. He spoke at ORU last week. Tried to make 'em think He was one of 'em. One particular sharp student though wasn't buying it. Afterward, at the meet n greet He mischievously rubbed against ole Newts ass and healed His crack. Yessiree!, covered the whole ugly thing with a, um, hymen. Newt had to rush over to "Emory" in Atlanta, on Sunday yet, and have an emergency hymenectomy just so He wouldn't drown in his own sh^t. Wouldn't want anything like that to befall you. Be careful DB. Religious BS can get mighty slick. Regards

      • 2 votes
      #1.150 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:08 PM EST

      Sarah, regarding your exchange with DB, let me post a short piece from something I wrote on the subject in 2004:

      A further christian argument is in response to a method which claims to interpret American law and our constitution separate from the principles of any religion, in accord with the stated desires of our Founders. The christian answer to this is familiar: there exists no ‘religion-less’ interpretation of things. Just as they called people who believed in no gods at all ‘atheists’ - whom they said followed the religion of atheism - christians now say that any ‘non-religious’ interpretation of the law is really itself a religion. The current name for this religion is ‘secular humanism’. And secular humanism is no ordinary religion, no. It is in fact the religion of Satan himself.

      Just so we are clear about this, I want you to understand: from a Christian’s point of view, when a judge thinks to himself “how can I apply the law here so that it is neutral to the issue of this man’s religion?” - this judge is really an activist who is practicing the satanic religion of secular humanism. Perhaps you think I’m kidding. I assure you, I’m not.

      • 2 votes
      #1.151 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:16 PM EST

      DB Akron

      The only reason that charlatans like Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson can make a lavish living and stay in the headlines is that people like you defend their religious right to spread their ignorant ideas, hateful accusations and divisive theocratic politics.

      Sarah has given you an intellectual beat down and you are too irrational to recognize it.

      • 5 votes
      #1.152 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:43 PM EST

      Snakebone

      Just so we are clear about this, I want you to understand: from a Christian’s point of view, when a judge thinks to himself “how can I apply the law here so that it is neutral to the issue of this man’s religion?” - this judge is really an activist who is practicing the satanic religion of secular humanism. Perhaps you think I’m kidding. I assure you, I’m not.

      Wrong - some fundamentalist do, but by far most christians most don't - and I've had plenty of opportunities to see many of the different denominations, be in many different services.

      Indians have a saying "judge no man until you walk a mile in his moccasins." You judge millions on the word of a few people, who only respect their own thoughts, their own ways as superior - which to Christianity says that not I, but Christ is superior.

      • 1 vote
      #1.153 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:48 PM EST

      President Obama can be a calathumpian for all I care. I am more interested in his policies and behavior and whether they are in the interests of the nation or not.

      • 3 votes
      #1.154 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:00 PM EST

      Sarah,

      Oh how clever you are, trying to portray secularism as its own religion.

      I didn't - you did. You made a connection that I not intended. I felt it better you state you were a secularist, or one of it's cousins, then let others just wander in unawares to fatally flawed thinking. Secularism is really amoebic at best - it kind of just moves in and takes over, if you let it. I don't have much care about "religion". It is vanity. So is anti-religion.

      Have you ever heard this phrase? - "each man became a law to himself"

      Is that really a good thing? Is it really possible to occur and still have peace?

      BTW - from 50 years experience - there is no smaller, weaker person, than "I". We are physically finite, and depend upon resources we did not create. "I" will submit to almost any rigor, give up almost anything even to be a "we" if "I" get's what "I" wants.

        #1.155 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:21 PM EST

        MAC - Newt is a politician. Love his passion, a lot of people could use more passion in what they do. His conversion to catholicism appears genuine. He clearly is not the same man of 10 years ago. His is the long practiced ambition combined with an apparent high IQ just isn't fully submitted to the higher power. He is far more measured than he was a speaker, but still goes to far at the most inopportune time.

        And Mac - if you think my theology is a bit all over the board, then you don't understand how broad theology is. Nor do you realize that points made are often about provoking thought.Science, politics, "intelligencia" like to put theology it in a little box, but It's a little bigger than the big blue marble we live on.

          #1.156 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:44 PM EST

          Snakebone...Perhaps my wording wasn't clear, so let me put it this way. The GOVERNMENT cannot force any one religion to be practiced by all. Neither can the GOVERNMENT interfer with or deny the freedom to practice any religions beliefs and tenants. It is all you naysayers who are constantly saying that those of the Christian religion, if a conservative is elected, will make laws to force their religious beliefs and tenants on all of the people. My point was that that is forbidden in the First Amendment and that is reason enough to blow all those myths out of the water, as no religion can, could or would even try to do such a thing...because it is forbidden. And again....Obama DID indeed ignore the first Amendment by FORCING a people of one religious denominaion and other religious people both Christian and Jewish, to do something that is against their beliefs and their conscience. He has INSERTED the GOVERNMENT into religions, by denying the freedom to practice the beliefs and tenants of religion.......which is clearly against the First Amendment. Did he not understand, or maybe he just crossed his fingers when he swore on the Bible, or whatever he swore on, to uphold and protect the Constitution of the U.S. Frankly, this isn't even the firs instance when Obama has ignored the Constitution and acted against it.

          The same horror stories, myths and freaking out, that the Pope would be directing the agenda and policies, were being bantered about when JFK, a Catholic, was running for President. JFK won, and the Pope never left the Vatican nor had a direct line to the W.H. Seems more that the liberals are incapable of separating religion from state, rather than the other way around.

          • 1 vote
          #1.157 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:46 PM EST

          DB

          So, Sarah spoke of a non-religious interpretation of the law. You said that she was thus promulgating a religion. With what part of my post CAN you disagree? The name of the religion? That it is satanic? Or do you just dislike that when your beliefs are put it into words on a public forum, they sound so...extreme?

          Walked in those moccasins until my feet bled. All of my siblings and many of my extended family are in the clergy. Some fundies think that? My friend, I have yet to meet the fundy who doesn't. And are you implying that the fundies are a small minority? You know those megachurches? Fundy. All those little churches spread through central california, oregon, colorado, texas, pennsylvania, the entire southeast and large swaths of the midwest, (just to name some of the higher concentrations)? Fundy. Not trying to be snide here, but that's millions, all traveling together on this one, so yeah, I'm in a great position to judge, at least according to the Indians...

          I'd be comforted by the 'Christ is superior' comment, except that Christ isn't involved - just a bunch of people using his name.

          • 3 votes
          #1.158 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:58 PM EST

          Aggie

          Yes, much more clear now. You just skipped a step in the logical chain before. But you stop at 'tenants and beliefs', as if morality has nothing to do with it. So, say I am a member of a religion which disapproves of marriage between men and women. I have lots of political pull and adherents in political power, so I get through a law banning marriage between anybody but same-sex couples. Have I violated your religious freedom, even though I didn't force you by law to believe in my God?

          Any law based strictly on religious morality is a violation of religious freedom. Yet we have many such laws, all - strangely enough - based on christian moralities.

          If religious organizations don't want to pay for medical insurance because the government allows the money to be spent on contraception, then I don't want to pay taxes because the government allows the money to be spent on war. That, by the way, is a religious belief which I hold honestly.

          • 1 vote
          #1.159 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:32 AM EST

          Last spring, when Graham was asked who we would back as a candidate for President, he replied that we "needed a candidate who would put us back on the road to integrity, like Donald Trump." My God, even the Donald's hairdo has no integrity. I think most people realize that Graham has none as well.

          • 3 votes
          #1.160 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:22 AM EST

          DB,

          I'm lacking colorless, ergo they're colored????

          I'm lacking emotion right now, ergo I'm emotional????

          I'm not still, ergo I'm moving???

          I'm secular, therefore I'm religious???

          That is the most circular, ridiculous logic ever, and you can argue it ever which way but Tuesday and be as holier than thou as you like, it doesn't change the facts.

          The very lack of something, can not equal the very thing it's lacking. Twist away if it makes you feel better and believe what you will.

          Your beliefs don't equal facts.

          • 2 votes
          #1.161 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:35 AM EST

          It's truly enjoyable how outraged the human secularism zealots get when somebody lands a good solid, accurate zinger on THEIR "messiah"!

          Really? What solid, ACCURATE "zinger" would that be? Graham's nonsense? Even most normal Christians (and that's the majority of them) realize that was simply a bunch of political BS.

          What's really going to be interesting .... if Santorum DOES become the GOP candidate, how many Republicans won't vote for him. I know a lot of my friends have said no. They don't want to go down that slippery slope of religious interference in secular law. They realize the devastating effect that would have on religious freedom.

          In the words of James Madison, father of the Constitution:

          In no instance have... the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.
          Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect.

          • 2 votes
          #1.162 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:59 AM EST

          Wow, just read my post, holy typos, doh!

            #1.163 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:18 AM EST

            My point is, if something's very definition is the lack of a specific thing, how can that something than become the very specific thing it's lacking???

            If I remain still long enough, that stillness won't eventually become movement. I'll only be moving, if I make the decision to leave the realm of stillness and move. Stillness doesn't just morph into it's opposite, that being movement.

            Not my most articulate post, but hell, this ridiculous attempt at logic is taking my words from me.

            So I guess you can paint me beige and call me neutral, just knock off the illogical mumbo jumbo.

            • 2 votes
            #1.164 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:32 AM EST

            It seems that Franklin Graham is employing snide innuendo in the same way that J. Edgar Hoover employed it; by 'accusing' without accusing.

            Although his followers will likely never perceive it, Franklin is demonstrating how perfectly foul these religious leaders - of all stripes! - can be.

            I fully expect Franklin to try to become the med-ia-wh-ore his father was.

            • 5 votes
            #1.165 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:45 AM EST

            My point was that that is forbidden in the First Amendment and that is reason enough to blow all those myths out of the water, as no religion can, could or would even try to do such a thing...because it is forbidden

            That's a rather naive statement - to say the least. There are laws on the books RIGHT NOW rooted in religious arguments and pushed by religious organizations, and more to come if we let it happen. What do you think gay marriage bans are based on? Logic? Reason? No, of course not, there is not one single justified argument against gay marriage that is not firmly rooted in religious dogma. How about alcohol sales on Sundays? What do you think the primary driver for those are?

            Are you sure? Physicists say that the whole Universe sprang from 'nothing'. Here's a link;

            That's not really what they mean. It wasn't 'nothing' actually - it was a singularity, that contained the time and space in which we currently reside. That's all that is known. They say 'nothing' because it's really the only way to conceptualize in our language the advent of space and time from a singular point... so in a way, it sprang from 'nothing' because the absence of time and space is 'nothing' - but the singularity itself was something - and no scientist makes the claim to know precisely what was going on 'before' there was time and space.

            ---

            Regarding Graham's moronic comments - I guess that must mean he's a pagan, since his great great great great great grandfather was a worshipper of Nyarlathotep, great goat headed god of fornication; and in that religion he would be considered a grandson of Nyarlathotep, Devourer of Children.

            Or I guess I'm a Lutheran, because my grandfather was a Lutheran. My father thought he was a Catholic, can't wait to see the look on his face when I tell him that he's actually a Lutheran too.

            • 1 vote
            #1.166 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:58 AM EST

            Snakebone: Religions don't MAKE laws in the Government. So your scenario would never happen. Religions do make laws or require certain things of ONLY the members of that denomination, but it is up to the conscience and free will if any person abides by them. It goes without saying that many of the religious laws are based on morality. I didn't think you would need that pointed out. And yes, many Government laws are based on morality, for instance, laws against murder, rape, incest, kidnapping...Not necessarily what one would say are ONLY based on religion, but on general morality and for the protection of all citizens....at least one would hope so.

            Nobody wants to pay for a war, much less even be IN a war, but we have pay for it because it is for the safety and security of our country. Remember, the terrorists brought a war TO us, on our soil. We can't let that happen again. And since a good offense is the best defense, everyone affected, taxpaying Americans, are paying for that effort. Forcing the church to pay for contraceptive coverage is not funded by the taxpayers, only the churchs. If Govt. mandated that ONLY persons of a certain ethnicity would be taxed to pay for the war, then you would have a similar situation requiring only a certain demographic to ante up. You keep talking about the church inteferring in the Goverment, but it isn't, it is just the opposite.

            • 1 vote
            #1.167 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:00 AM EST

            Graham said pretty much the exact same thing about Gingrich as he did about Obama, about you'd have to ask (them) if they are Christian as they say they are. Why is it so terrible that he said it regarding Obama, yet not a peep of dissent because he said the same thing about Gingrich. Graham speaks for himself and has and no one else. If that's not the case, then I suppose Rev. Jeremiah Wright speaks for Obama and the Democrats.

            • 1 vote
            #1.168 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:06 AM EST

            Religions don't MAKE laws in the Government.

            What's DOMA (Defence of Marriage Act) then? If not religious? How about the ban on liquor sales in the neighboring country, and the ban on Sunday sales? Are those not religiously motivated?

            Religions do make laws or require certain things of ONLY the members of that denomination

            Don't forget their employees who may or may not be the same denomination.

            Why is it so terrible that he said it regarding Obama, yet not a peep of dissent because he said the same thing about Gingrich.

            Because considering Gingrich's brightly checkered past, not even diehard GOP Christians would argue with Graham on that point. It's obvious the life-long political hack is just wearing the newst "Jesus Jacket" that is so popular these days.

            But in Obama's case, what is there - really - to indicate he is anything other? His father's religion is irrelevant, so what is it then? Because he's black? Because he has a Moooslimy sounding name? Nothing substantial.

            • 4 votes
            #1.169 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:11 AM EST

            Dear Lord "Graham", doesn't that say enough !

              #1.170 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:33 AM EST

              Boy the Liberals have their panties in a bunch today. Where was all this outrage over Rev. Wright? Wasn't it a coincidence when Obama quit his church. Rev. Graham said he believed Obama when he said he was a Christian, but it seems you guys refuse to see that. I have a few more crying towels left for those of you in need! Boo Hoo Boo Hoo! Wa. Wa Wa

                #1.171 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:06 AM EST

                @Shuklack,

                It's obvious the life-long political hack is just wearing the newst "Jesus Jacket" that is so popular these days.

                LOL

                  #1.172 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:33 AM EST

                  Reverend Graham is a disgrace to religions everywhere. How dare he question the religion of President Obama – or anyone else for that matter? Your beliefs are a personal matter and should not be an issue in a political debate. Reverend Graham (and Santorum) should stop trying to impose their beliefs on anyone! His actions and accusations do not demonstrate Christian benevolence. He is a phony and a fake!

                  Further, the religion of your parents are not necessarily your own. My parents came from two different religious backgrounds and I do not follow either one. They neither forced me to choose one over the other but taught tolerance for all religions and the freedom to choose. Both were kind, compassionate, loving, understanding, moral, and far better people than the religious hypocrites such as the reverend. I was taught and live by the Golden Rule . . .

                  • 2 votes
                  #1.173 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:24 AM EST

                  Where was all this outrage over Rev. Wright?

                  Your insinuation isn't very clear. But for one, when I looked into Rev. Wright's 'controversial' sermons, most of it was cherry-picked and taken out of context - there were very few things that were worth raising an eyebrow over. Second, Obama left that congregation and came out and said he didn't agree with Rev. Wright on many of his topics.

                  So really, what's your point? That Obama had the guts to quit a church because the pastor said some stupid crap? Well then I would agree with you there. I only wish more people had the same inclination against pastors that say stupid things instead of blindly agreeing with their pastor because he "knows what god is thinking"...

                  Rev. Graham said he believed Obama when he said he was a Christian, but it seems you guys refuse to see that.

                  If you didn't notice the obvious double-speak, it's no wonder so many things apparently go way over your head.

                  • 1 vote
                  #1.174 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:12 PM EST

                  You people are sickening.

                  3thirty3, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.

                  Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

                  Not your first suspension.

                  • 4 votes
                  #1.175 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:35 PM EST

                  President Obama practices his Christian faith, but does not wave it in people's faces.

                  He does not make statements about the Christian beliefs of others particularly his opponents.

                  He shows compassion for the poor, the working poor, and the uninsured

                  He shows respect for people who disagree with him - even though he doesn't cave in to their demands.

                  If he makes a mistake, he finds a way to correct it - rather than spending his time denying it.

                  He knows that being a Christian isn't about what you say, it's about what you do.

                  Quite simply, he is more of a Christian than any of these turkeys will ever hope to be.

                  • 4 votes
                  #1.176 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:48 PM EST

                  Shuklack, love your excuses, some refuse to see whats right in front of their faces, but then you always have. He quit the church when it was brought up during the election not before, yeah that's a lot of guts. As far as going over my head, at least I don't lie to myself,and don't pretend to know everything.

                    #1.177 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:24 PM EST

                    Shuklack....Sunday liquor sales laws ,etc. are not put on the books by any church or religion, they are made by the individual city and county governments. You seem to imply that non religious people don't have any morals. Just because people don't belong to any religious denomination doesn't mean they are amoral.

                    So what about the employees who are not in a denomination?....they aren't be the ones being forced to pay for something they are against. Minus that one provision, they are covered by the insurance the church willingly pays for for it's employees. So that is a moot point. Nobody is forcing them to believe the same as their religious employer. Nobody is stopping them from doing what they want either. They've obviously managed up until now. If they don't like that, they don't have to work there. This is just another example of Obama shoving HIS healthcare policy unconstitutional mandates down the throats of people, like it or not.

                    • 1 vote
                    #1.178 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:52 PM EST

                    to wlee (1.171): re the "outrage over Reverend Wright . . .

                    Reverend Wright is an educated, accomplished man who served honorably in the United States Marine Corps and the United States Navy. He has and continues to serve his community well. He is neither anti-white nor anti-American. He simply tells it like it is . . .

                    Fragments taken from a few of his sermons were taken completely out of context during the presidential campaign. The “God Damn America” sermon refers to the injustices and inequalities in America, e.g. the inhumane treatment of American Indians, Blacks (slavery), women, gays and lesbians, minority groups over the years, as well as the imperialistic nature of the United States.

                    His statement “chickens coming home to roost” is a result of our invasion into Iraq which provoked the 9/11 attacks.

                    I do not view these statements as inflammatory – just factual - and I was very sorry that President Obama was put in a position to disassociate with his pastor and friend.

                    • 3 votes
                    #1.179 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:49 PM EST

                    @shay,

                    I agree completely, it is getting tiresome, refuting all these mistruths and out an out lies! Muslim, Kenyon, and on and on, I remember a few years back, when the Republican's called treason, un-American, etc. if anyone "dared" disagree with Bush, about anything! The Dixie Chicks had their career ruined by the RWNJ's, now it seems acceptable to denigrate our president. It makes our country look BAD!

                    • 2 votes
                    #1.180 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:55 PM EST

                    Shay, nice excuse why don't you give Franklin the same pass. You seem to have missed the point. Just as with what you say about Rev. Wright and not judging him on his quotes, but the over all person, why isn't that applied to Rev. Graham? What kind of friend was Obama to throw his FRIEND under the bus. I give credit where credit is due regardless of political affiliation, something that most Liberals are unwilling to do

                    • 1 vote
                    #1.181 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:29 PM EST

                    wlee

                    What you fail to recognize is the fact that those "liberals" you criticize are judging Graham on his own statements while people like you are judging President Obama on the words uttered by Reverend Wright. President Obama says that he was not in church when those statements were made by Wright and also made a wonderful 2008 speech in which he stated that it was important to judge a person by their body of work rather than on the worst of their behaviors.

                    If you recall, and you probably don't, President Obama broke from Reverend Wright's church only after Wright's derogatory statements following Mr. Obama's 2008 religion speech.

                    Reverend Graham's statements implying that Mr. Obama is Muslim because his (absentee) father was Muslim is absurd. Does he somehow believe that religion is genetic? Is he really that ignorant about science? If religion were in fact genetic Franklin Graham might be a bit more like his father instead of the hateful, divisive charlatan that he is.

                    • 3 votes
                    #1.182 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:48 PM EST

                    Forcing the church to pay for contraceptive coverage is not funded by the taxpayers, only the churchs.

                    Actually, some of it IS funded by the taxpayers ... here's how ...

                    First, we are not talking about the actual CHURCH's insurance being required to cover contraceptives. They are exempt now and in the future. That is clear.

                    We are talking about BUSINESSES run by religious organizations. There is a BIG difference. BUSINESSES run by religious organizations employ people from all walks of life ... not just people of that particular denomination or sect. There is no expectation that if you work for a Catholic or Jewish hospital you are Catholic or Jewish.

                    Second, the majority of the BUSINESSES affected are either hospitals or schools. I can't think of a SINGLE hospital that does NOT get taxpayer money in the form of Medicare and Medicaid. Therefore, if they accept taxpayer money, they need to follow the rules ALL businesses do that accept taxpayer money.

                    Third, this does not force anyone into taking contraceptives who disapprove for WHATEVER reason. AND, the women involved pay the premiums and thus are entitled to the coverage.

                    Finally, I don't see them refusing to cover Viagra ... which has NO additional purpose other than the "if after four hours ...."

                    • 3 votes
                    #1.183 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:37 PM EST

                    Leaving many comments collapsed for being derails or grenade trolling religions.

                    Restored many, as well. Don't collapse because you do not agree.

                    Thanks.

                    • 2 votes
                    #1.184 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:29 PM EST
                    Reply

                    Othello for the 21st century...

                    But really, why is anyone listening to this witch doctor again? It's ridiculous that, at this late date, there are certain segments of our population having serious conversations about this.

                    I mean, what is this a conversation about anyway? Isn't the whole premise of Christianity that those who were not Jews (i.e., not lineal inheritants of the Abrahamic covenant) can say they believe in Jesus and go to Heaven.

                    Preposterousness of that premise aside, it seems to me that calking Obama "the son of Islam" flies in the face of the extension of Abrahamic covenant to gentiles...if you belive in that sort of thing. Are these people not bound by logic...any logic...even their own internally inconsistent one?

                    • 63 votes
                    #2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:50 PM EST

                    Are these people not bound by logic...any logic...even their own internally inconsistent one?

                    I'll say again:

                    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people.

                    - House

                    Reason and logic cannot be applied to articles of faith. That does not make faith a useless activity for humans to engage in, just an unpredictable and dangerous one. There is a really good reason that people who emphasize faith as their primary means of assessing reality should be kept away from the helm of the ship of state. Even money doesn't corrupt politics the way religion can and does.

                    • 51 votes
                    #2.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:30 PM EST

                    Best religion quote ever!

                    • 16 votes
                    #2.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:38 PM EST

                    I can't resist - that was an appropriate quote, so here's a less appropriate one:

                    Our hero stands between two warring cults. Says he, "Come on, Churchos, cool it. The little, stupid differences are nothing in comparison to the big, stupid similarities!"

                    Bart Simpson

                    • 16 votes
                    #2.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:52 PM EST

                    Hey Franklin Graham -- in this nation we judge a person by what that person doesn't -- not by what his father did. If you don't like that -- you may want to consider moving to another country.

                    • 12 votes
                    #2.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:30 PM EST

                    With the new millenium we have reached another stage in the evolution of religious thought, with some people beginning to understand the irrationality and danger of clinging to dogmas that divide us, while others fearfully or dishonestly claim to know something that is unknowable.

                    What galls me is that we can't have an open discussion about the blatant hypocrisy and lack of reason that religion represents. It is still afforded the status of a sacred cow, even by the media.

                    Thank whatever god may or may not exist that this is a democracy and that we all have just one vote. We will find out in November if this is still the Land of the FREE and the Home of the BRAVE.

                    • 10 votes
                    #2.5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:36 PM EST

                    the graham cracker wants our country (obama) to rectify the Arab spring uprising by sending our might into the countries the cracker spoke about and protect and save the minorities within each country. well, if the shoe fits wear it dude: how about your organization stepping forward, as Christians, and serving the religious few of this country, unless you enjoy starting wildfires, and being extremely prejudice.

                    • 6 votes
                    #2.6 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:41 PM EST

                    Hmmm... Yes, "we the people," will be voting, but in some respects isn't that like the monkeys running the zoo?

                    Reverend Franklin Graham needs to know that grey–haired older men should not be legislating what women can or cannot do with their bodies. That is up to the woman and her God.

                    By contrast, if the shoe were on the other foot – as in, if men had to have unwanted babies, there would be abortion on demand in every major U.S. city, at all times and every day.

                    Conservative Christians hijacked the Republican Party a number of years ago, instead of having the courage to form their own political party. Since then, every election cycle brings forth new finger wagging and morality goal setting by most of the GOP candidates. They like telling other people what, how and when to do almost anything.

                    Barry Goldwater, considered by many to be one of the founding fathers of modern day conservatism, would sit up, change ends, then roll over several times in his coffin, to hear and see what the GOP is trying to do today. More likely than not, he would have a few choice, blunt, words to say about it. Something like, “None of the present Republican Party POTUS wannabes are worth the powder to blow them to hell.”

                    As a Republican, I find it embarrassing to realize that the GOP cannot field better–qualified candidates. Until the GOP finds a candidate who knows something about making and sticking to a budget, knows something about creating meaningful jobs, and, who genuinely cares about doing something to help people who are less fortunate – the Republican Party will remain in the toilet.

                    • 12 votes
                    #2.7 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:02 PM EST

                    Rev. Jerry Falwell: "Miss Me Yet?"

                    • 4 votes
                    #2.8 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:30 PM EST

                    “"When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get." Matthew 6:5

                    Who elected this guy the barometer of faith? He sounds a lot more like the hypocrites described above to me.”

                    • 8 votes
                    #2.9 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:02 PM EST

                    WhistleBerries -

                    I have been a Democrat all my life, yet I respected Senator Goldwater. He was known as "Mr. Conservative" within his own Republican party. He didn't preach his religion, but spoke in an intelligent and considered manner on subjects actually related to the governing of this nation. His religion may have guided his life, but he didn't impose it on others.

                    Today, he would likely be drummed from the Republican Party for being too liberal.

                    As for Franklin Graham, he is nothing like his father, who met with and prayed with people of any and all beliefs who asked for the solace. He did not pass judgement on any President, regardless of their religious denomination. He was there to help, to lift up, not to destroy. His son should follow his father's actions

                    • 4 votes
                    #2.10 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:15 PM EST

                    Sue, you, obviously, don't know Franklin Graham and his works. You also don't know his father either.Nothing he says imposes any religion on anyone, where do you get that idea. Are you that allergic to any statement concerning religion?

                    • 4 votes
                    #2.11 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:35 PM EST

                    Franklin has always been such an embarrassment to the legacy of his father.

                    Poor Billy.

                    • 7 votes
                    #2.12 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:07 PM EST

                    I really can't speak to the Graham issue as he and his ilk are so deranged from the cognitive dissonance of their theological positions that most of the time they appear to be speaking backwards..However, on the subject of Barry Goldwater: his position on labor was disturbing. He held that a man ought to be able to stand forthrightly in front of his employer and recieve with gratitude what he was given. Don't need no stinkin' unions.

                    • 2 votes
                    #2.13 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:50 PM EST

                    I watched this interview this morning and it made me sick. Good for the Morning Joe panel to challenge this ignorant, primitive, politically-motivated, hypocritical fool. How dare this glassy-eyed, deranged, brain-washed ignoramus (not unlike Rick Santorum) think he has either the right or the invitation to judge the rest of the human race? I credit this morning's panel for calling this idiot out, but why was he invited on in the first place? Double standard, indeed. And a hell of a lot more. They are called human values, not Christian values. Christians don't get to claim by virtue of their status as Christians to be morally superior to everyone who dismisses those claims for what they are: de-humanizing, irrational nonsense. Values are values and they involve humanity--kindness, caring, integrity, honesty, etc. Franklin already fails that test and so does his God. Who sacrifices their child for the crimes of another? Yet another faith based fraud. Stop selling his books, Morning Joe, and get yourselves out of the Iron Age while you're at it.

                    • 2 votes
                    #2.14 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:34 PM EST

                    0

                      #2.15 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:13 PM EST

                      Culheath

                      You have given a link to some worthless Athiest argument. I love watching the best so called athiest debate with the best Christian theoligist, now that would be an awsome link because the athiest always ends up shreded. It is easy for an athiest to sit there a run their mouth about some illogical argument without any opposition. I would love to post one but they won't let me so you will just have to look one up for yourself. Get ready to watch the athiest get angry and upset because their argument gets shreded, it is rather funny.

                      • 1 vote
                      #2.16 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:02 PM EST
                      Reply

                      We're supposed to have separation of church and government in this country. When are we going to start practicing that?

                      • 95 votes
                      #3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST
                      Comment author avatarlautRestored

                      @UDunnoBro

                      We can start when Obama stops making these proclamations:

                      "PRAYER has played an important role in the American story and in shaping our Nation's leaders. President Abraham Lincoln once said, "I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom and that of all about me seemed insufficient for the day." The late Coretta Scott King recounted a particularly difficult night, during the Montgomery bus boycott, when her husband, the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., received a threatening phone call and PRAYED at the kitchen table, saying, "Lord, I have nothing left. I have nothing left. I have come to the point where I can't face it alone." Dr. King said, in that moment of PRAYER , he was filled with a sense of comfort and resolve, which his wife credited as a turning point in the civil rights movement."

                      -Barack Obama, Presidential Proclamation - National Day of Prayer - April 29, 2011

                      • 7 votes
                      #3.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:25 PM EST

                      Two sentences, one line, and you've summed it up perfectly.

                      • 13 votes
                      #3.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:26 PM EST

                      When everyone becomes educated and the cow jumps over the moon.

                      • 9 votes
                      #3.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:39 PM EST

                      About the same time that a solid majority of people understand the mechanics of why people are prone to believe in gods.

                      Why We Believe in Gods

                      • 5 votes
                      #3.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:39 PM EST

                      UDunnoBro--

                      If you ever find out the answer to that question, please let me know who else besides you and I have read/studied the Constitution and KNOW Separation of Church and State is specifically written in there as law.

                      • 9 votes
                      #3.5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:42 PM EST

                      NEVER. The gullible are too gullible.

                      • 10 votes
                      #3.6 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:43 PM EST

                      I can't find those exact words in my copy of the Constitution?

                      • 4 votes
                      #3.7 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:57 PM EST

                      Who is violating the separation here? There is also freedom of the press to ask Mr. Graham what his views on the religious stance of Obama and the GOP candidates. Rather than dodge the issue with an inane comment, he actually answered the question.

                      Maybe people who see violation of the Constitution because someone comments on someone else's religion should stop obsessing about other's public comments, and ask themselves how this article in any way demonstrates the establishment of any church by any government entity.

                      • 6 votes
                      #3.8 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:01 PM EST

                      Why is it that so many of these self professed "Christians like Franklin Graham, Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry to mention a few are perfectly willing to lie about anyone they disagree with? The Christianity I grew up in regarded lying as a sin.

                      • 19 votes
                      #3.9 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:32 PM EST

                      Charlie....Congratulate yourself. You are probably the last living American of your generation who knows it's wrong to lie. Thanks to the present acceptance of lying either by omission or outright verbalizing of an untruth, our children are growing up with the idea that fantasy is the same as lying.

                      • 7 votes
                      #3.10 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:45 PM EST

                      When? "When the last politician is strangled with the entrails of the last priest", that's when...

                      • 3 votes
                      #3.11 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:52 PM EST

                      When all the spiteful, clinging thumpers turn to ash, or stone...

                      • 3 votes
                      #3.12 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:33 PM EST

                      We will practice that after ridding the nation of Repuicks as politicians, maybe the repuicks can move to Iran along with the Christians to help recruit other idiots

                      • 3 votes
                      #3.13 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:40 PM EST

                      My guess---Never.

                      Strange, he can take eveybody else's word about their faith, but "can't say with certainty" that the President is Christian. Hmmmmmmm.

                      • 5 votes
                      #3.14 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:41 PM EST

                      Thank you for the link, culheath. It's a fascinating field of study.

                      Who is violating the separation here? There is also freedom of the press to ask Mr. Graham what his views on the religious stance of Obama and the GOP candidates. Rather than dodge the issue with an inane comment, he actually answered the question.

                      In a court of law, GreenTimer, that sort of opinion is called "hearsay". Why do we care about Mr. Graham's opinion on the religions of the candidates? He can't speak for them, and even if he could, why should their professed religious beliefs matter to voters?

                      • 7 votes
                      #3.15 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:46 PM EST

                      @Jean321,

                      I too have read the U.S. Constitution, and "Separation of Church and State" appear all of zero times. Perhaps you are thinking of T. Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter, written to the Danbury Baptist Assn. in 1802. Sorry to call you out on "KNOW[ing] Separation of Church and State is specifically written in there as law", but I abhor it when people misquote what is in that oh so important document.

                      Cheers.

                      • 5 votes
                      #3.16 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:00 PM EST

                      Thank you for the link, culheath. It's a fascinating field of study.

                      You are more than welcome :)

                      In a court of law, GreenTimer, that sort of opinion is called "hearsay". Why do we care about Mr. Graham's opinion on the religions of the candidates? He can't speak for them, and even if he could, why should their professed religious beliefs matter to voters?

                      Well put.

                      • 2 votes
                      #3.17 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:01 PM EST

                      The origin of sin: not being able to prove a belief is a fact, but claiming it to be a fact, and claiming others to be less than you because they don't belief in your 'facts' is a lie.

                      The primary lesson studying any religion should teach us is an absolute sense of humility before our collective ignorance of God, man, and the universe.

                      • 1 vote
                      #3.18 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:14 PM EST

                      Why does this lying scum get a tax break? How stupid must his followers be to think he is worth listening to.

                      No TAX BREAKS for religious nuts!

                      Pay your taxes, azzhull!

                      • 4 votes
                      #3.19 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:56 PM EST

                      kaybeetoys,

                      If your version of a courtroom is MSNBC's Morning Joe, then maybe you've been watching too many episodes of Perry Marson or Harry's Law. My comment was about a useless question by a reporter attempting to keep viewers interested in his show by creating some buzz. He obviously caught the attention of you and me.

                      Now if you want to get all legal, what would the court call a witness being asked under oath what their opinion of a person's religion was (as the reporter did with Graham)?

                      Joe's question to Graham, asking Graham's opinion of Obama's religion passes legal muster, but me saying that Joe asked the question is hearsay because you don't care about Graham's opinion.

                      As to why we care? I don't know, but it appears that both of us cared enough to spend time reading it. And more than that, commenting on it.

                      • 1 vote
                      #3.20 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:10 PM EST

                      I remember his father being a right wing nut, sticking to Nixon as he went down the tubes. I despise anyone in the clergy, regardless of faith, that manipulate their followers. It's always done in the guise of "god's" work, while Jesus was a Liberal that didn't like bankers--kinda of like a socialists, even for his time. If there is a God, I bet he sees President Obama in a better light than he does Rev Graham or any of the GOP pretenders.

                      • 7 votes
                      #3.21 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:28 PM EST

                      1. If you are busy minding your own business, you don't have any time to mind eveybody elses.

                      2. God's Big Surprise! 'My boy never said that all you had to do was believe on (sic) him to be saved. That was John Calvin and he's in hell where you're going.'

                      • 2 votes
                      #3.22 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:29 PM EST

                      Those GOP are just gone NUTS!!!!! What are they talking about . Stop mixing Relegion and State You will only cause hell on earth . STOP IT!!!!!!

                      • 4 votes
                      #3.23 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:53 PM EST

                      Sandtrich#3.21: If, as the religionists claim, we are all Gods chillen, then it is likely he also has some pissed off illegitmate chillen. I think, if we pay attention we can identify 'em. Poor bastards.

                      • 1 vote
                      #3.24 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:12 PM EST

                      sandtrich, Jesus was also a conservative, and I think I'll let God make up his own mind about all his children.

                        #3.25 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:44 PM EST
                        Reply

                        Opps, I was about to comment on Grahams statements, then I recalled I could care less about any opinion offered by a television preacher.

                        • 77 votes
                        Reply#4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST

                        This is a non-story. Graham did NOT say that Obama is a son of Islam (as the mis-leading heading implies). Graham said that to OTHER MUSLIMS, Obama is seen as a son of Islam. Now, is that really a stretch? It's not. I believe that some Muslims may think as Graham says. If Obama's mama was Jewish, then certainly all Jewish people would believe he's a son of Israel.

                        Then Graham went on to say, "if he says he's a Christian, then I have to assume he is".

                        For this lefty who doesn't like the Graham's at all.... I say get me a REAL story about the Graham's. This one is worthless. If you wanna go after Franky G, go after him for his "free pass" comment.

                        • 8 votes
                        #4.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:33 PM EST

                        Major, I'm falling into the same trap as you: Commenting that I'm not commenting. But it's tough to pass up.

                        Pray tell, how is Mr. Graham so certain about Rick's beliefs, but so unsure of Gingrich and Obama? Does Mr. Graham know what is in the mind of other men?

                        How does he know that Romney is not Christian? Does his definition of Christian trump those of the LDS Church?

                        Boy, wouldn't it be a kick in his gut if he were wrong?

                        • 10 votes
                        #4.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:43 PM EST

                        It is said that the pits of hell will be lined with the ministors and preachers, I am sure Mr Graham this too can be discussed in the dark rooms in which you meet with the others that share your view. I'll be sure to go to confession if i have been unfair to you, but only you and the lord knows. The rest of the world would be wise to remember that. Were you called or just assumed your place in the Church. But if you say you are a Christian who are we to disbelieve you. I thought we were all Gods children. Trust and respect are earned. Now about this Citizens United situation it has me wondering if the hight court, could have been blackmailed into this, are they so afraid of the American people and their ability to speak with a single voice, by casting it as a vote.

                          #4.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:02 PM EST

                          major2 -- you meant to say that you COULDN'T care less - nor could I.

                          • 2 votes
                          #4.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:03 PM EST

                          Harold,

                          If Obama's mother was Jewish, then yes he would be considered Jewish. The only way to be considered to born Jewish is to for the mother to be Jewish. Just ask one of your Jewish friends or workmates to confirm this.

                          • 1 vote
                          #4.5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:22 PM EST

                          Here's a funny little vignette...Gingrich has had 3 wives. The first two wives at a time when he was a practicing Protestant. Along comes dear little Catholic Callista so willing to help old Gringo to undo his marriage to his second wife who was ailing from MS that she insisted he convert to Catholicism. Now will someone please explain how a man with 3 wives can become a Catholic?

                          The Catholic annulment procedure requires a civil divorce before the annulment is granted. But, the male eunochs of the Catholic Church have yet to explain that one much less how a born Catholic like Frank Sinatra was eligible for not one but two annulments from his first wife and second so he could marry his arm candy Mia Farrow, herself a Catholic who would be restricted from marrying a previously married man...whew! Isn't it wonderful how money talks and annulments are done deals for anyone with a big name?

                          • 7 votes
                          #4.6 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:57 PM EST

                          Harold - it's like saying "Crooks believe he's a crook but he says he isn't so what do I know?" See? It's guilt by association. Smear him and then say "But hey! I'm not going to judge!"

                          • 4 votes
                          #4.7 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:02 PM EST

                          All those bible thumpers are a bunch of Hipocrites.

                          • 3 votes
                          #4.8 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:21 PM EST

                          Harold:

                          Apple................not so far......................tree.

                          Snacktime, lil fella!

                          • 2 votes
                          #4.9 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:36 PM EST

                          When? My guess is never. Especially when you can use someone's percieved religion to try and besmirch their character.

                          I find it sorta interesting that Graham can take Santorium's, Romney's & Gingrich's word on their faith, but "can't say with certainty' about the President's faith. Nice.

                          Also, where are all these muslims that regard the President as a Son of Islam? What exactly did this supposed 'free pass' entitle muslims or Islam to? Details, details.

                          • 3 votes
                          #4.10 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:55 PM EST

                          Mike,

                          Say Obama's mother was a non-practicing Jew and raised him religion free. Then when he reached adulthood, he embraced the Baptist faith. He gets baptized, he embraces Christian ideals, and he identifies himself as a Christian. Jews would still consider him "a son of Israel" solely because his mother was Jewish. Should a baptized person who identifies himself as a Christian be classified as a Jew? No more than a baptized person who identifies himself as a Christian be classified as a Muslim, solely because his father was muslim. But Muslims will still refer to him as a "son of Israel". So all Franky G was saying is that because his father was Muslim, other Muslims will use that as an excuse to call him one of their own. Jewish folks would do the same if his mother was Jewish.

                          Dudogger.... not sticking up for Franklin or Billy. Don't care for either. However, it SICKENS me when any news organization displays a misleading headline that implies that Franky G is calling Obama a Muslim. He is not. It's not even close. He even said he takes the prez at his word when he calls himself a Christian.

                          The headline is a disgrace and the whole article is a non-story.

                          Huh?! - I get what you're saying and don't disagree. I still don't believe it's newsworthy. Clearly, I'm in the minority as this topic has gotten HOT fast.

                          • 3 votes
                          #4.11 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:01 PM EST

                          I take a person at their word for what they say they are. Who am I to question.

                          Having a Jewish mother (practicing or not) still means being born Jewish. How you are raised and what you decide to follow will change what you currently are, but not the status of your birth.

                          We're in agreement. It's ridiculous enough to identify anyone's beliefs or values currently by what they were born into, and even more ridiculous to base it on the father instead of the mother which is the established factor is most cultures.

                          I guess we can all use his logic and assume that Franklin Graham still runs around crying and crapping his pants since we can easily establish by witnesses that was his pattern of behavior in his first couple years.

                          • 2 votes
                          #4.12 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:19 PM EST
                          Reply

                          here we go again....the Muslim innuendos....don't these GOPs read their history.....2008, you LOST, using same rhetoric!

                          • 60 votes
                          Reply#5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST

                          Good reason for them to keep it up in my opinion.

                          • 7 votes
                          #5.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:06 PM EST

                          Please! Good reason my as! Ignorant!

                          • 3 votes
                          #5.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:21 PM EST

                          But, hey, tax cuts during wartime be good for economy, no?

                          • 2 votes
                          #5.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:38 PM EST

                          We haven't had a wartime since WW2! Get over it. Everything else is just government subsidies to the military/industrial complex which pays for their elections. The only way to guarantee free and fair elections is not to vote, it's to be the only one paying for the vote. Deny donations for any and all political elections and guarantee everybody running for office the same airtime and internet time, paid for solely by the american taxpayer. No special interests, no lobbyists putting money in any politicians pocket, and then you'll have a real election.

                          • 3 votes
                          #5.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:16 PM EST
                          Reply

                          No shortage of whack-jobs in church.

                          • 57 votes
                          Reply#6 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST

                          Tea Tard, I think you will find no shortage everywhere

                            #6.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:51 PM EST
                            Reply

                            LOL... All I've gotta say is... I hope these asshats keep this up... They will virtually assure Obama's reelection!

                            • 65 votes
                            Reply#7 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:52 PM EST

                            DarwinWasRight-Is it in the Bible where it says, "God so loved the world he gave us Darwin to explain it."

                            Good to see lots of sane posts on this one. Darwin Rules!

                            • 7 votes
                            #7.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:38 PM EST

                            I dont know what scares people the most, their words or the fact that there are a lot of them and if they vote in a block....well you know.

                            • 1 vote
                            #7.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:05 PM EST

                            They really can't possibly keep it up much longer. The last turd except for Ron Paul has now risen to the top, only to soon rot and fade away under the same tide of national disgust. Curiously, Ron can't ever seem to crawl out of the deepening sludge on the bottom to make a fair go of it. How's it down there with Michele, Herman, Newty, and Ricky, Dr. Paul? Snicker. "Donald Trump, where are you...? Please come save the day at our brokered convention!" Snort.

                            • 3 votes
                            #7.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:47 PM EST

                            Rev, Graham...hate your neighbor, but don't forget to say grace

                            • 4 votes
                            #7.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:11 PM EST

                            Hell they've been repeating the same fear -mongering crap for centuries and they continue to lose ....both power and referendums... the gop and its minions are as inconsequential now as any "major" political party has ever become,at any level,in all of history.Their influence financially is all that props up this sham of corruption and moneyed influences.God ain't gonna save 'em,never did and isn't acceptable to the voting public as the measure that directs voting interests among the majority,well-educated or not in large part it seems.Obama will eat these clowns alive and has already shown them for what they are......very,very small.

                            • 4 votes
                            #7.5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:49 PM EST
                            Reply

                            Graham is a nutcase and so are all his followers. They are all religious extremists who incite hatred. He should crawl back into whatever hole he came out of.

                            • 55 votes
                            #8 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:52 PM EST

                            So was his father but you are not allowed to say that out loud in this country.

                            • 25 votes
                            #8.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:58 PM EST

                            That is so very true, Anita. You would have thought Billy Graham was the second coming of Christ himself. He and his son Franklin are both bigots and use Christianity as a cover for their hatred of anyone who doesn't think like they do.

                            • 33 votes
                            #8.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:10 PM EST

                            Unfortunately, they can't get back in that hole, but Governor McDonnell of Virginia is trying to stuff the state government into that hole. The Republicans of Virginia are leading the rest of the Republican states in its lurch into theocracy.

                            • 14 votes
                            #8.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:45 PM EST

                            I so agree with you Deb P. and Anita. Frank Graham has not shown nothing but racist remarks regarding President Obama. But yet, he is suppose to have the love of Christ, which he claims he represents as a christain. Frank Graham questions President Obama Faith, when President Obama represenst the love and humble spirit of Christ that Frank Graham,Santorum,Gingrish,Romney, and Perry do not have in their little finger. Evangelical/GOP follow a religion of prejudice and discrimination.

                            • 7 votes
                            #8.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:22 PM EST

                            Consider the following two comments, and their reasonableness:

                            1 -"He has said he’s a Christian, so I just have to assume that he is.” By Mr. Graham when asked by a reporter about Obama's religion.

                            2 - "Graham is a nutcase and so are all his followers. They are all religious extremists who incite hatred" An unsolicited comment at post # 8 above.

                            • 4 votes
                            #8.5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:26 PM EST

                            Do you put the Rev Graham and Rev Wright in the same category?

                            • 3 votes
                            #8.6 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:07 PM EST

                            And consider the headline GreenTimer:

                            Rev. Graham: Obama seen as 'son of Islam'

                            Frank... you are certainly NOT your father! Stay out of politics, or give up ministry/evangelism.

                            • 4 votes
                            #8.7 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:15 PM EST

                            “When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get." Matthew" 6:5

                            Sound like anyone we know?

                            • 3 votes
                            #8.8 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:14 PM EST

                            Do you put the Rev Graham and Rev Wright in the same category?

                            Let us answer that after they interview Reverend Wright about the religious beliefs of all the potential candidates for president.

                            • 2 votes
                            #8.9 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:16 PM EST

                            Not as stupid....,

                            Headlines frequently distort the article. Did you think from the headline that Graham thought Obama to be the son of Islam? Well, not according to the article.

                            Graham also said the Muslim world sees Obama as a "son of Islam," because the president's father and grandfather were Muslim.

                            Frank, as long as the press wants to elevate you to a general spokesman and seeks your opinion, there is no reason to be bashful. They love to make money pushing baited questions which only obfuscate meaningful discourse.

                            • 2 votes
                            #8.10 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:29 PM EST

                            GreenTimer;

                            Wheter Franlin thought the President is the son of Islam or not isn't the issue. He is spreading this slanted garbage in a very public manner.

                            I believe he is one of the "false prophets" we are warned about in the Bible, but I haven't gone on the airways nor to the newspapers beating a drum about it.

                            I believe he should either be a minister and evangelize the gospel as his father has, leading people to Christ, or he should give up that guise and be a political pundit/activist, BUT HE SHOULD NOT TRY TO DO BOTH!

                            • 4 votes
                            #8.11 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:14 PM EST

                            dongwork4yuda

                            Who kowtows to minority interests?? That would be this administration including legal and illgal minorities, gay marriage, trying to get amnesty for illegal aliens, allowing all kinds of foreigners to stay after they lose thier H1b jobs or their student visa has expired. Give aways every other day to buy votes. Come on the biggest minority kiss up is Obama.

                            And for those of you who claim he "killed" muslims, give me a break, the info was gained long before he came along or it wouldn't have been gained at all, we have to be nice to prisoners after all. Then the search for Bin Laden went on for many years and the military found out where he was and requested permission to go take him out. There was no way Obama could say no without suffering the backlash so he did his big part in the whole thing by saying OK! HE will take credit for anything he can up to and including the Boeing plant in SC that he and his union buddies sued over. The support Obama crap is so deep in here it must be coming from the Narwhal room. The name of which cracks me up since a narwhal is a small whale with a jutting jaw!!!

                            • 1 vote
                            #8.12 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:51 PM EST

                            Not as stupid as yo uthink,

                            If Franklin's opinion wasn't the issue, then why'd you quote the headline?

                            How many chances to appear on TV have you passed up so far? I mean you're not a minister or anything like that, that would prevent your appearing, are you?

                            That fella Graham just doesn't know his place, does he? Accepting an invitation to appear on TV. Next thing ya know engineers, carpenters and bus drivers will be wanting time on the tube - maybe even doctors.

                              #8.13 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:23 PM EST

                              Just as in the article headline , the Liberals on here love to twist his words. Maybe you should actually read what he has done for people worldwide.

                                #8.14 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:58 PM EST
                                Reply

                                The gop has really turned into a giant joke. Fakers, flip floppers, hypocrites, extreme right wing wackos etc. Calling them clowns is an insult to actual clowns. Clowns are funny. These guys are just plain scary.

                                • 62 votes
                                Reply#9 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:53 PM EST

                                And still, it's always amusing to watch the local yokels flailing around, trying hopelessly to defend every last worthless, transparently-partisan thing their party's dumb bunnies try to do in the name of being good, responsible Republicans... Please.

                                • 3 votes
                                #9.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:52 PM EST

                                I'm a real clown with the RB BB Circus and I'm totally offended because these re-pugs ARE LIKE MACABRE CLOWNS AND THEY ARE VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY SCARY SCARY SCARY !!!!!!!!!

                                • 3 votes
                                #9.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:06 PM EST

                                Truth, John Edwards, Joe Biden seems you Liberals have your own

                                  #9.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:01 PM EST
                                  Reply

                                  "...Islam has gotten a free pass under Obama." Really you d-bag? Ask bin laden and the other terrorists that have gone down. Free pass? The American Christian-Taliban will say anything because the don't like the color of the President's skin, and their failure to prove the "Kenyan" wasn't born in the U.S.

                                  • 60 votes
                                  Reply#10 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:55 PM EST

                                  I agree. Every comment about his religion or "theology" (from a sh-head so stupid he doesn't know what the word means) or his place of birth or his not understanding "the American people" is a veiled comment about his color.

                                  • 11 votes
                                  #10.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:59 PM EST

                                  Boys look in your closet , it's a "RACIST" get a dictionary and learn the definition

                                    #10.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:04 PM EST
                                    Reply

                                    What the hell is this? The dark ages?

                                    • 48 votes
                                    Reply#11 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:55 PM EST
                                    Comment author avatarRoad Warrior-252445Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                                    That is a racist remark.

                                    • 6 votes
                                    #11.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:56 PM EST

                                    Not the dark ages. They were more tolerant then.

                                    • 22 votes
                                    #11.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:11 PM EST

                                    lol Deb. +1 +1 +1

                                    • 7 votes
                                    #11.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:40 PM EST

                                    Welcome to the US.

                                    • 6 votes
                                    #11.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:41 PM EST

                                    Deb, you mean like tolerant of someone else's opinion whether you agree or diagree

                                      #11.5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:06 PM EST
                                      Reply
                                      Comment author avatarRoad Warrior-252445Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                                      I don't know if Obama is a Muslim or a Christian, but I do know he is a Marxist wannabe as all his worshippers are.

                                      • 16 votes
                                      #12 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:55 PM EST

                                      You and the Rev should trade bull@!$%# stories.

                                      • 28 votes
                                      #12.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:58 PM EST

                                      Spread the wealth, fair share, at some point you have made enough money. These ae all Marxist principles. I bet you agree with him.

                                      • 8 votes
                                      #12.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:04 PM EST

                                      I don't know if Road Warrior is really human, but I know it's a troll.

                                      • 25 votes
                                      #12.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:04 PM EST

                                      Road Wannabe....

                                      Our President is a Centrist, right of Ronald Regan and has continued MANY of the W Bush policies. I am not convinced he is a "Liberal" much less a marxist. But keep beating that neo-con drum. The louder you spout this BS, the more people you drive away from Conservative causes.

                                      • 15 votes
                                      #12.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:06 PM EST

                                      JT,

                                      Reagan gave us justices Scalia, Rehnquist and O'Connor. Obama gave us Kagan and Sotomayor. Obama is no Reagan, much less to the right of him. I bet you think Clinton was right of Reagan, too, after giving us justices Ginsburg and Breyer.

                                      There goes those thin-skin liberals collapsing the posts.

                                      • 8 votes
                                      #12.5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:10 PM EST

                                      Spread the wealth, fair share, at some point you have made enough money. These ae all Marxist principles. I bet you agree with him.

                                      __________

                                      Those all sound like perfectly sensible ideas.

                                      • 6 votes
                                      #12.6 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:11 PM EST

                                      Truth,

                                      Sensible only if you are a Marxist. In a free society, you earn your own fair share. You are not entitled to someone else's money. You don't spread someone else's wealth. In a free society, you can't dictate how much money one can earn.

                                      • 5 votes
                                      #12.7 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:20 PM EST

                                      Roadwarrior = I#$%$

                                      anyone who thinks anything Obama has done is "Marxist"y doens't have a clue what Marxism is

                                      • 16 votes
                                      #12.8 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:21 PM EST

                                      dong,

                                      I said 'Marxist wannabe". Look at the czars he had surrounded himself with to do the dirty work to free himself from the Marxist label. Van Jones, Anita Dunn, just to name a couple.

                                      • 5 votes
                                      #12.9 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:25 PM EST

                                      Uh what if they're earning a ton while not paying YOU a fair share? You're grand vision of 'greed is good' economics only works well for the 5% at the top. Everybody else gets screwed...

                                      • 11 votes
                                      #12.10 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:29 PM EST

                                      Truth,

                                      In a dictatorship, the government gets to decide what is "fair share". We're not there yet, but another four year of Obama, we'll get there, especially if he won't have to worry about re-election. Only fools believe the government has the best intentions for the people.

                                      • 5 votes
                                      #12.11 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:36 PM EST

                                      Why would the community collapse this comment? We need to know up front who are the insane among and politically ignorant among us.

                                      • 5 votes
                                      #12.12 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:53 PM EST

                                      I wouldn't have collapsed roadwannabe's comment, but will state unequivocally - and definitively - that he's too ignorant and too stupid to reason with. The guy doesn't even know what marxism is.

                                      • 4 votes
                                      #12.13 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:03 PM EST

                                      WStevens,

                                      I have spent seven years in China. I am speaking from experience how lousy a Marxist regime can be. Where are you coming from? Don't call others ignorant unless you can back it up. Otherwise, you are talking to the guy in the mirror.

                                      • 3 votes
                                      #12.14 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:09 PM EST

                                      And even worse, he has a really bizarre definition of "free".

                                      He needs some basic remedial study such as :

                                      "No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.... Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in Mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

                                      Hopefully he will someday recognize that he is only as free as others around him are. How free is the rich man afraid to step out of his limo if parked in the ghetto.

                                      • 3 votes
                                      #12.15 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:20 PM EST

                                      Road Warrior you really, truly sound like a f*cking idiot on so many levels. you'll probably never believe it, but take it from the rest of us, you'll make yourself sound a lot less moronic if you just stop right now.

                                        #12.16 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:46 PM EST

                                        So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll? Culheath depends on the size of one's weapon. I know this because I am a Caucasian living in Detroit. I doubt very many of you could rap your head around what it takes to accomplish that feat on a daily basis.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #12.17 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:12 PM EST

                                        I grew up in downtown Detroit...not so hard at all. I also for lived in Flint for a time. I never needed a weapon in either city. But then I didn't ever feel surrounded by the enemy either.

                                          #12.18 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:12 PM EST

                                          Yes, Obama is no Reagan. Under Reagan, spending during two terms (FY 1981-88) averaged 22.4% GDP, well above the 20.6% GDP average from 1971 to 2009. In addition, the public debt rose from 26% GDP in 1980 to 41% GDP by 1988. In dollar terms, the public debt rose from $712 billion in 1980 to $2,052 billion in 1988, a roughly three-fold increase. On third year of Reagan first term, the unemployment rose to 10.3%.

                                          During first Obama years, the spending was up to 24% of GDP, but considering having to fund two wars, this is not a surprise.

                                            #12.19 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:26 PM EST

                                            Obama is responsible for 33.333% of the National Deficit in the past 30 years. Hmmm! In under 3 years! Hmmm! Chew on that! oh yeah, you say "no sir". Look it up! Do the research! it is a matter of Public Record.

                                              #12.20 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:48 PM EST

                                              You Liberals love calling people names when you have no argument. You whine about successful people because it highlights your own inadequacies. You make excuses why you are where you are at. Culheath, I want to see you pull up in your Volvo in South Central L.A. or even Dog Town at night in East L.A.

                                                #12.21 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:16 PM EST

                                                Not restoring comment # 13, derail.

                                                he's too ignorant and too stupid to reason with.

                                                WStevens, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.

                                                Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

                                                  #12.22 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:37 PM EST
                                                  Reply

                                                  What a load of crap from Graham. For the majority of Americans that aren't led around by the nose by these snake-oil salesmen preaching hell fire and picking your pockets for Jesus, Obama is seen as an intelligent man who has turned this country away from a depression.

                                                  • 51 votes
                                                  Reply#13 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:56 PM EST

                                                  Uh Oh, another religious fanatic terrorist. Time for a well placed drone.

                                                  • 20 votes
                                                  Reply#14 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:56 PM EST

                                                  --yeah, they're called "The Christian Taliban" and they're identical to their Muslim cousins, except they don't use the word "Allah" or go "la-la-la-la" before an attack. They run for public office.

                                                  • 19 votes
                                                  #14.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:34 PM EST

                                                  While Santorum will bring us the "Salem Witch Trials" for 95% of women now we have another "Snake Handler" accusing Obama of the above. Notice most of these religions have their roots in the deep South. They are still mad" LBJ signed the Civil Rights bill". They can't go out and hang a blackman on Friday nights.

                                                  • 10 votes
                                                  #14.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:16 PM EST

                                                  Neo Cons you forgot with the help of the Republicans, but like a lot of Liberals you never complete a sentence.

                                                    #14.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:33 PM EST
                                                    Reply

                                                    Hey, we already did the "Obama is a Muslim" crap back in the 2008 election. Remember Sarah Palin working up the crowds with that one? Rev. Graham, your statements are inflammatory, silly, dangerous and just plain wrong. Please shut your pie hole because you are not helping. Muslims are our brothers and sisters and serve proudly in the armed services, so please stop trying to use fear once again for political motives. Your bigotry is showing.

                                                    • 51 votes
                                                    Reply#15 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:57 PM EST

                                                    Precisely! Glad you mentioned that For Sonia. Bigotry is a terrible thing and even against the Mormons lately in this old GOP! Wow. Not fit to credibly lead any country from that POV, can we say ethnocentric?

                                                      #15.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:39 AM EST
                                                      Reply

                                                      I'm not thrilled with Obama because he didn't keep his campaign promise to stop lobbying.

                                                      But man, at least he's SANE.

                                                      • 29 votes
                                                      Reply#16 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:57 PM EST

                                                      You can't possibly stop lobbying in the United States government, it is built-in and explicitly allowed by the Constitution. You have an impossibly high standard if you hold Obama strictly to that promise... he did in fact refuse a lot of PAC money and at least tried to do so.

                                                      I agree however, the Republicans have lost their sanity.

                                                      • 25 votes
                                                      #16.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:07 PM EST

                                                      I am sorry but the ancient Greeks forbade lobbying. If anyone was caught taking a bribe they were ousted immediately as a servant of the Polis, it is stated in either the Symposium or the Timaeas and Critas as I recall from memory. It is nothing other than the prostitution of the civil servants and bribery.

                                                      It is clearly and logically against the law. It should be banned and there should also be limits to campaign finance. I also am concerned that there is no bar or vetting that should qualify the education, background and ability of people to stand such posts that affect the lives of so many, or any qualifications to even run for them. It is like putting a used car salesman in charge of navigating a ship. Just down to earth common sense. We sure as heck do not need any religiously fanatical dictators in the POTUS seat right now. Sheesh! That is scary.

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #16.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:53 AM EST

                                                      You can't possibly stop lobbying in the United States government, it is built-in and explicitly allowed by the Constitution.

                                                      Yes you can. It's bribery, pure and simple and it should be punishable by LONG prison sentences for everyone involved.

                                                      We will never have democracy in this country so long as government officials can be bribed with impunity.

                                                        #16.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:44 AM EST
                                                        Reply

                                                        Franklin Graham is a poor shadow of his great Father. He should remember his Father's embarassment when the Nixon tapes reported Billy Graham's anti-semtic comments. Stay in the pulpit Franklin and keep your mouth shut in the political arena.

                                                        • 26 votes
                                                        Reply#17 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:57 PM EST

                                                        The only real surprise is that a far right-wing Protestant like Graham thinks a Catholic is a Christian. That's very moderne of him.

                                                        • 22 votes
                                                        Reply#18 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:57 PM EST

                                                        Yeah, that is surprising. I remember being very shocked and confused when the Lutheran woman down the street from us told me that, as a Catholic, I wasn't Christian and was going to you-know-where.

                                                        I asked Sister Rose about that she told me not to worry about it, Lutheran Lady was mistaken. Catholicism was the original form and if anyone was going to that very warm place, it was the Lutherans!

                                                        I have since come to believe that this loving, caring God we're taught to believe really exists, he's not sending people to hell (not sure I even believe in that!) for a difference in their brand of religion.

                                                        • 7 votes
                                                        #18.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:49 PM EST

                                                        I listened to the preacher this morning and I was appalled. I met his father when I was in high school (at a Christian boarding school just outside of Asheville) and Billy would NEVER had said the kinds of things this guy implied and said this morning. It has bothered me all day long. I sincerely PRAY that Morning Joe NEVER invites this neanderthal back on the show. It was really disgusting. Shame shame shame! I was absolutely thrilled when both John and Mike and also Alex called him on it!! He is "so heavenly minded he is of no earthly good"!

                                                        • 9 votes
                                                        #18.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:01 PM EST

                                                        u are a confused individual! the Bible clear talks about hell and how plpl WILL go there if they chose to not belive In Jesus Christ!!! idk what bible ur reading, but aparently your not.!! I cld go on and on explaing the Jews and Catholics belifs, but it states VERY clearly in the Bible that NO person shall come to God the father EXCEPT through his son, Jesus Christ!!! Not by confessing your sins to a preist, but by confessing your sins and believing in Christ!!! God sending his son to die on the Cross bridged that gap to him.....not by going to confessional.....

                                                        • 4 votes
                                                        #18.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:11 PM EST

                                                        I saw the Morning Joe piece. When asked if he thought Romney was a christian he didn't hesitate to say " He's a mormon. Many in the christian church don't believe that Mormonism is christian."

                                                        It was my first laugh of the day.

                                                        • 7 votes
                                                        #18.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:13 PM EST

                                                        Terelyn - I remember being very shocked and confused when the Lutheran woman down the street from us told me that, as a Catholic, I wasn't Christian and was going to you-know-where.

                                                        Funny....I got it from the other direction when I was growing up, when my Catholic friend down the street told me that it was us Lutherans who had killed Christ.

                                                        • 3 votes
                                                        #18.5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:17 PM EST

                                                        Look, "Look", and you'll see (OK, couldn't resist that) the poster said 'send them to hell for a *difference* in their religion.' As fas as I know, Lutherens, Catholics, Protestants, Baptists and all the other 'ists' believe in Christ. They just differ somewhat in how they express that belief. So are you saying that if I believe in Christ but I don't follow your doctrine then even though I made a best faith effort God is going to throw me into a pit of fire? Well thenHe should have left more specific instructions. And God sayeth "Being a Luthern is what I wanteth you to do. More hot dish suppers in Minnesota pleaseth me greatly." Something like that. I've always wondered what God really needed with gold candlesticks anyway.

                                                        • 5 votes
                                                        #18.6 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:00 PM EST

                                                        One Bible, so many different interpretations of it. So, please explain to me in on uncertain terms, what is the definition of a Christian?

                                                        James 1:26-27 gives a pretty good description:

                                                        26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.

                                                        27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

                                                        In the Bible, Christ himself said in Matthew 25:31-46 that only those that show compassion to others can inherit the kingdom of God, while those who do not, have no place there. It doesn't say anywhere in there "unless you profess to be Christian, then you're all good".

                                                        Vote with the candidate that best reflects your beliefs of what will help this country, not by what religion he atests to.

                                                        And truth be told, there are good values in each of the different political parties, no matter what side of the political fence you sit on.

                                                          #18.7 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:14 PM EST

                                                          I have read more hatred and anger in the name of religion than I could have believed possible. Franklin Graham believes Gingrich and Obama are Christian because they claim to be, yet he does not give Romney the same respect. A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ, which Romney is. Followers of Jesus Christ try to emulate His love, kindness, grace and humility, among other traits taught in the Bible. Just a reminder, Mr. Graham. In our country, we have Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists and more- and all are Americans and should be afforded respect and a right to their voice. The Pilgrims left England to get away from state-established religion. Mr. Graham does not speak for me.

                                                          • 4 votes
                                                          #18.8 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:34 PM EST

                                                          Yeah, I remember the Baptists (back when I were one) proclaiming that Kennedy was the antichrist, due to his Catholicism. Catholics were certainly not seen as Christian. And now Santorum is going to be speaking at the largest Baptist Church in my town this week. Churches have certainly changed, and I think it is time to tax their political bodies!

                                                          • 7 votes
                                                          #18.9 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:12 PM EST

                                                          Ever wonder why if God so wanted people to believe in his son Jesus that he gave him the power to heal the sick, and raise the dead, but absolutely failed to give him the ability to read and write? Of course, that should be expected, since everyone appears to believe that God lacks the ability to write for himself, correct? Has to rely on those sinning failing mortals to translate his word to parchment!

                                                          Don't get me wrong, I believe that there is great value to Christian philosophy, I just don't believe for a minute in the historical reality of those writings as sinning mortals wrote it down for us to read centuries after the fact. Everyone of them knew for a fact that the world was flat. I mean, how could they ever be wrong about anything else?

                                                          A christian is simpy a follower of a particular tribe of followers with a self-elected leader who claims that he/she is the exception to all his followers thereby annointing his position as head of his tribe.

                                                          My tribe is better than your tribe sayeth the all-powerful lord according to the person you went to church to listen to. The lord created everything but will smite his enemies and persecute them for eternity in hell, sayeth the lord. I created you so do what my servant tells you to do or you will suffer for eternity (sayeth the lord), well actually sayeth the so-called servant of the lord. Anybody know how many different bibles there are? If the bible is the word of God why does every religion have their own? If everyone has the true and absolute word of God, but everyone disagrees with everyone else, God must be an enormous prankster!

                                                          People are so desparate for answers that they will do almost anything to avoid the questions. Tell them what they want to hear and they'll follow you anywhere. Hmm, you know, religion sounds a lot like a political election, doesn't it?

                                                          • 4 votes
                                                          #18.10 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:31 PM EST

                                                          Thank you rrobeson. Your thoughts are clear and concise.

                                                          Additionally, everyone's religion has their own God and people will believe in what they were either brought up to believe or what they choose to believe. No one's religion is wrong and no one's religion is the only one that is correct. We all have the prerogative to believe what we want. Do not preach your religion to me and tell me where I will be going if I don't believe in what you believe in and I will not preach my religion to you. Everyone keep their religion to themselves and shut up!

                                                          Let's take religion OUT of the presidential race once and for all.

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          #18.11 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:33 PM EST

                                                          A Christian is someone of any denomination who accepts Jesus as his savior for no man cometh to the Lord but thru him. There have been differences in denominations since Jesus time No man knows the mind of God. All people should know don't judge lest yee be judged.

                                                            #18.12 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:42 PM EST
                                                            Reply

                                                            Rev. Franklin Graham says whatever is politically correct for the far right Christians in the Republican party. His words about the President have always been negative and hateful - not very Christian. He is not tolerant of other religions - even saying the President is a Muslim because his mother worked and lived (and married a Muslim). Presidenet Obama is a Christian, we should believe him and move on. We also all know and understand the background of President Obama's father and his religious background. Maybe Rev. Graham should realize that not all Muslim people are bad people or terrorists just like not all Christians are outstanding and tolerant people. It is people like Franklin Grahman that turn people away from religion - I don't mean away from God, Christ or Christian beliefs.

                                                            • 26 votes
                                                            Reply#19 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:58 PM EST

                                                            If Obama is seen as "son of Islam" then Graham is seen as "son of KKK" - only difference being that in Graham's case it is actually true.

                                                            • 37 votes
                                                            #19.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:00 PM EST

                                                            There are no far right Christians in the Republican Party as they have rejected Jesus and His Disciples for Greed. They are the ones that Jesus and His Disciples preached against.

                                                            • 12 votes
                                                            #19.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:50 PM EST

                                                            Rev. Graham needs to get his nose out of politics more often and learn about the history of his fellow Christian churches. The same goes for Mr. Santorum. I AM a United Church of Christ pastor, and I find it laughable that Graham and Santorum's handlers have done so little research on the United Church of Christ that they don't realize that ours is the church of the Pilgrims and Puritans, where Scripture is central to each and every service. Not even the Baptists -- and certainly not the Catholics were here any earlier or have any greater claim to sculpting America than the religious forebears of Obama and all Congregationalists.

                                                            And yes... we are all broken, sinners. But I wish that some would-be candidates for the presidency wouldn't work so hard at being so broken.

                                                            • 9 votes
                                                            #19.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:27 PM EST

                                                            Rev. Graham your are wacko in my opinion. Sad you are so unenlightened. Sad you are so prejudice against anyone or anything different than your narrow mind.

                                                            • 8 votes
                                                            #19.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:12 PM EST
                                                            Reply

                                                            Islam has gotten a free pass under Obama? I think Bin Laden and Pakistan would beg to differ.

                                                            • 27 votes
                                                            Reply#20 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:58 PM EST
                                                            Comment author avatarcgcarter1Restored

                                                            "I will stand with my Muslim brothers, if the winds of political change take an ugly turn..." - Obama, Audacity of Hope (Page 261). Perdy much says it right there.. Oh, and it took him 6 months after knowing where Obama was to finally decide to take him out...

                                                            Educate yourself...

                                                            • 11 votes
                                                            #20.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:12 PM EST

                                                            Correction... That should be Osama.. but whatever, both of them will be a distant memory soon...

                                                            • 5 votes
                                                            #20.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:13 PM EST
                                                            Comment author avatarTheGuilty1Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                                                            cgcarter: Doesn't mean much when theres, ya know, absolutely no context to that quote at all?

                                                            Do you actually believe Graham's religious bull@!$%#? Have you not been paying attention to anything since 2008?

                                                            You're a worthless moron.

                                                            • 10 votes
                                                            #20.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:31 PM EST

                                                            Cgcarter1, educate yourself by going to snopes.com and stop getting your news only from places that supply you with the hatred and misinformation that feeds your biggotry.

                                                            • 11 votes
                                                            #20.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:31 PM EST

                                                            Are you GD kidding me? First of all, what you are saying is either a lie or just ignorance. Who knew if hew knew where bin Laden was. You don't know that. I, and the whole world knows, that Bush DID know he was in Tora Bora and had him surrounded. I, and the whole world knows, that Bush DID divert troops to Iraq to fight a war by choice against an unarmed country.

                                                            Second, calling people one's brothers does not make one a member of that group. I'm Catholic, go to Mass regularly etc. (and, yes, I find the bishops obtuse and altogether useless). I refer to my brothers and sisters all the time (such as Jewish Brothers and Sisters or Muslim Brothers and Sisters or Zoroastrian Brothers and Sisters) as HUMANS to demonstrate my common HUMANITY. The real issue is that it only matters for bigots such as yourself what a person's religion is, or whether they have one at all. I would suggest reading Article VI of the Constitution. The bottom line is that a person's religion is irrelevant. Franklin Graham and his fascist cabal should scurry back in their holes and under their rocks where they came from.

                                                            • 17 votes
                                                            #20.5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:35 PM EST

                                                            Looks like I fell for it, too, Titan. I went to snopes (should have done that to start with), and that quotation appears nowhere in the book. So, CG, is just an ignorant teabagger (surprise, surprise). However, I stand by my sentiments.

                                                            • 11 votes
                                                            #20.6 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:41 PM EST

                                                            cgcarter1, It looks like you pulled out quite a convenient little snippet from Obama's book ... However, What is the full context of that quote? huh? Dumbass.

                                                            • 4 votes
                                                            #20.7 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:52 PM EST

                                                            Graham is so stupid and unconscious, it really doesn't matter what he says. In his myopic, mythic-literal Bronze Age mind, people qualify to be human beings based on whether they are "Christian" or not. This false and divisive belief has its origins in the dualistic, tribal origins of Christianity. Graham is not educated enough and neither is he compassionate or empathic enough to understand that. Like the majority of republicans in this country, Graham has a low IQ and is brainwashed by a myth and the greatest cultural lie in the history of the human race. There never was a Jesus in history. Jesus is like Santa Claus and Apollo and Mithra....a fictitious mythological figure. More astounding is that there is not a shred of historical evidence that a Jesus existed in history. Philo of Alexandria never mentions him and neither does any other contemporary historian alive in those times. The records of Pilate and Herod do not mention Jesus at all and neither do they mention a trial, a crucifixion, or anything else attributed to the mythical Jesus. People like Santorum are categorized as mythic-literal "believers." See Fowler's research and book called "Stages of Faith." We as humans all grow incrementally in our spirituality and human development. Most American "christians" are in the "mythic-literal" stage of development, which is the bottom rung on the ladder. People at this stage cannot differentiate myth from Reality and they cannot discern Truth from falsehood. People at that low level of consciousness have simply not adequately developed cognitively or in discernment. Santorum is evil and everything that come out of his stupid self righteous mouth is based in hate and division. Santorum and Gingrnich are the only class warfare idiots in this country.

                                                            • 2 votes
                                                            #20.8 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:00 PM EST

                                                            It says you get forgiven for being a sinner; not for being a moron.

                                                            • 3 votes
                                                            #20.9 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:30 PM EST

                                                            TO: cgcarter1 who wrote:

                                                            "Correction... That should be Osama.. but whatever, both of them will be a distant memory soon..."

                                                            I don't think so. Republicans don't have a sane candidate. All the ones you've got now cater to the wackos and have an agenda that would be too harmful to the American Workers, families, and Senior Citizens.

                                                            Your treasured Grover Nordquist said that all he wants is someone who will sign all the papers that Nordquist tells him to sign, and that "having brains" is NOT required, which reminds us of the last Republican tossed into the White House, GWB, and you saw how THAT worked out, or did you?

                                                            Seems some Republicans remain deaf, dumb and blind when it comes to rooting out bad Republicans.

                                                            Obama / Biden 2012

                                                            • 8 votes
                                                            #20.10 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:47 PM EST

                                                            You're a worthless moron.

                                                            TheGuilty1, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.

                                                            Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

                                                            • 2 votes
                                                            #20.11 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:34 PM EST
                                                            Reply

                                                            Dear rev. Graham,

                                                            It might help to crack open that bible you thump folks with on occasion.

                                                            Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

                                                            Colossians 3:9 "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;" (N.T. Equivalent)

                                                            Perhaps a bit of "practice what you preach" would be appropriate in this discussion?

                                                            • 21 votes
                                                            Reply#21 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:59 PM EST

                                                            Gosh...this race for the presidential nominations has become really ugly.

                                                            But at the end of the day I am WAY more afraid of the fundamentalist rhetoric than of anything or anyone.

                                                            Strikes me as "Big Brother" is watching and that is very scary.

                                                            • 14 votes
                                                            #21.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:14 PM EST

                                                            I pray to GOD in the field of Dreams not some lousy church thatt I have to PAY to get into where does that money go ?? 25% to help people the rest to the .........????

                                                            • 2 votes
                                                            #21.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:09 PM EST
                                                            Reply

                                                            Which is worse radical Islam or radical Christianity? I think they both need to be eradicated. Why did Franklin Graham get to take over the family holy business by default? Are Chrisitian prophets ordained just like the pharoahs of Egypt? Billy Graham was a healer; his son just a marketing tool to gain riches. Just another Prophet for Profit !!!

                                                            • 20 votes
                                                            Reply#22 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:59 PM EST
                                                            Comment author avatarIndy0678Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                                                            Your a disgusting human being, killing people because they speak out against immorality.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #22.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:27 PM EST

                                                            Your a disgusting human being, killing people because they speak out against immorality.

                                                            Oh, where to begin? First, I didn't see anywhere in afmcalaxn's post where he/she advocated killing anyone. I agree the the elimination of radical extremest religious views would be a good thing.

                                                            Second, who made you the ultimate arbiter of what is or isn't immoral? Where is that in your job description?

                                                            • 4 votes
                                                            #22.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:59 PM EST

                                                            Please tell me what is wwrong with the sheeeeeplll

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #22.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:12 PM EST

                                                            Your a disgusting human being, killing people because they speak out against immorality.

                                                            Indy0678, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.

                                                            Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #22.4 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:57 PM EST
                                                            Reply

                                                            As much as I admired and respected Billy Graham, it is clear to me that he fathered and passed along his ministry to a complete nut. Not only is he not sure Obama is a christian but he is not sure if he will get picked to live on Newt's moon colony. Evangelicals wonder why they get a bad rep.

                                                            • 16 votes
                                                            Reply#23 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:00 PM EST

                                                            His Father would be ashamed of his bigotry and his playing politics! he has no credibility as a religious leader, just another hater and liar!

                                                            • 11 votes
                                                            Reply#24 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:01 PM EST

                                                            I assume you are speaking about his Heavenly Father and not his earthly father who was, himself, also a bigot.

                                                            • 9 votes
                                                            #24.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:13 PM EST

                                                            You people so easily label others knowing nothing about the man except for some set up questions and answers you disagree with, who are you? By what authority do you have the right to judge? I disagree with a lot of people on these vines ,but I don't judge them on their lives as I don't know them. The hatred of a lot of these comments should I assume this is the definition of a Liberal?

                                                              #24.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:02 PM EST
                                                              Reply

                                                              The American Presidency is being targeted and diminished by the Evangelicals and the Catholic Church, neither of which can be considered any thing more than a political agenda by religion. Religion seems to be having a lot of trouble gaining relevance so they attack our political structures. For some illogical reason, leaders within the religious theologies seem that what they have to say is of any interest. We have a nation that separates the church and state for good reason. This is just another attempt from the right wing radicals (it should be renamed the WRONG wing radicals) to gain political relevance and it badly failing putting them into an even weaker minority.

                                                              • 20 votes
                                                              #25 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:01 PM EST

                                                              Religion has no trouble gaining relevance. Its just a case of over zealous atheists such as yourselkf, feel the need to bash any religious person who speaks out against something.

                                                              • 2 votes
                                                              #25.1 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:28 PM EST

                                                              Did you seriously just atttempt to insult someone by calling them atheist, because they have more than two brain cells to rub together and thinks that religion and politics should be kept safely separated?

                                                              0_0

                                                              Wow.....

                                                              • 8 votes
                                                              #25.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:07 PM EST

                                                              Maybe some of us would feel better if more religious people would speak out for things instead of against them.

                                                              And I don't see anywhere where Joe Madden declared himself an atheist. I only see you calling him that.

                                                              • 8 votes
                                                              #25.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:13 PM EST

                                                              Religions, Christianity at the top of the list, have been the largest bashers of others. They are far more hateful than any athiest. They try to pass laws forcing their narrow religious views on EVERYONE. Religion is the breeding ground for overzealous hate of anyone that doesn't believe the same as they do. You can see it happen over and over throughout history.

                                                              • 15 votes
                                                              #25.4 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:14 PM EST

                                                              I agree with you, Sandy.

                                                              Who cares if Obama's Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Mormon, atheist or Scientologist?! Give me freedom FROM religion as well as freedom OF religion.

                                                              • 17 votes
                                                              #25.5 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:34 PM EST

                                                              This is one of the reasons that I like Romney. He states what his religion is and then leaves it. He doesn't make morality calls as Sanctorum, Gingrich and now Rev. Graham have done. Sandy, you hit it on the head. And I also want to give a thumbs up to CharlieTuneA1 and all others that echo his (?) opinion.

                                                              • 2 votes
                                                              #25.6 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:23 PM EST

                                                              Sandy, Missouri -- Where were you on September 11, 2001.

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #25.8 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:08 PM EST

                                                              Texas - so Obama is responsible for 9-11-2001 now?

                                                              • 3 votes
                                                              #25.9 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:36 PM EST

                                                              Amen.

                                                                #25.10 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:57 PM EST

                                                                To all of the above, has anyone thought of the power the ministers hold? Graham has assured many many people that Obama is a bad person to be in charge of anything. Why, his farther was a good man and well loved, however myself don't feel it. Also with Graham saying that now all the minister's will be preaching some of it sooner then later. If you live in a southern area, all the will have their minister's yelling his head off at Obama. So of course they will follow the minister because he is a man of God so he is to be believed. But there are those who pretend for the money.

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #25.11 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:29 PM EST

                                                                This must be the modern day inquisition being conducted by the Rev Franklin Graham. Rick Santorum and Newt Gringrich have been found, by the Rev. Graham to be true christians. He has not decided the fate of Mitt Romney, even though he said others have. However he has decided that Barack Obama is an heretic and will be treated as such, even though Obama says he is a christian. Heresy was punishable by torture until the heretic repented. Does the good Rev. have it in him?

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #25.12 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:10 AM EST

                                                                Sandy, funny thing is I haven't seen Obama do any of those things, and he's a Christian. Post like yours lumping all the same make me feel sorry for people like you

                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                #25.13 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:06 PM EST

                                                                wlee, I didn't see anywhere in Sandy's post #25.4 Obama's name mentioned. I feel sorry for people like you that interprets everything as an anti-Obama rant. You don't get out much, do you?

                                                                  #25.14 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:36 PM EST
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