#wordpress-ui logs for 2012-08-14
- Aug 14 15:23:13 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Trying to pick up where we left off on the welcome screen: http://make.wordpress.org/ui/2012/07/24/welcome-screen-design-v2/#comment-22337 - please let me know if you have any thoughts. cc// nacin, helenyhou, sabreuse
- Aug 14 15:23:39 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- lessbloat: chexee was also looking at that at dev day, and i think melchoyce was interested in talking copy as well
- Aug 14 15:24:19 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Any and all comments/help with copy is much appreciated. :-)
- Aug 14 15:31:08 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- Looks good. What will the Facebook & twitter sharing lead to?
- Aug 14 15:31:36 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- we can't do those in core - those are .com features :)
- Aug 14 15:33:25 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- That's what I thought… it's a jetpack feature, right?
- Aug 14 15:33:33 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- (I haven't actually used jetpack #fail)
- Aug 14 15:34:27 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- err... also not sure if jetpack does it. it's called publicize on .com. but, either way, the end result is that that won't fly for core itself :)
- Aug 14 15:35:55 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- Did we want to reference setting up your site with a blog or static homepage on this screen?
- Aug 14 15:36:41 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- technically speaking... the customizer is supposed to help with that step. not sure.
- Aug 14 15:37:02 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- language is confusing there because i'm not sure users really relate that to the "look" of their site
- Aug 14 15:37:57 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- I think as long as they click that first, it should be okay
- Aug 14 15:38:38 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- Though they might customize, then change their theme, and then not know to customize it again
- Aug 14 15:42:24 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- helenyhou: Could we talk a bit about UI guidelines at the end of today's meeting?
- Aug 14 15:43:19 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- melchoyce & helenyhou - sorry, I meant to explain the Facebook and Twitter links, my thought was to simply use the respective JS snippets for each of those.
- Aug 14 15:44:30 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- All we'd have to do is set the subject and the link.
- Aug 14 15:48:44 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- To me, it seems like the following things are important to new users (this is very generalized): 1) Getting their site looking the way they want it, 2) posting something, 3) Getting comments and interacting (which necessitates sharing their new blog with their friends/family).
- Aug 14 15:49:09 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- That's a very blog-centric view, though
- Aug 14 15:49:47 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- If you're a small business owner or someone trying to get up a personal site, but don't intend to focus it around posting, it seems to reinforce the misconnection that "wordpress is only for blogging"
- Aug 14 15:50:46 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Wouldn't items 1-3 also apply to a small business?
- Aug 14 15:51:14 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- 1) Get their website looking right, 2) Adding content, 3) Promoting it to their customers?
- Aug 14 15:51:21 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- Not if they don't plan on blogging.
- Aug 14 15:51:28 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- i think the logistics behind the sharing part, however it's driven, are rather complex. but, i'm open to hearing how it would work.
- Aug 14 15:52:05 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- for instance, which post is it sharing? and then why would it only be available for that first post and only those services? what happens if those services change their code and we're married to it because it's in core?
- Aug 14 15:52:25 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- My thought was it was sharing the site URL.
- Aug 14 15:54:39 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- Are we prompting users to share because we think we should remind them to, or we think they won't be able to figure out how?
- Aug 14 15:55:24 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- melchoyce: Could be both. Currently there is no way to share, which I find odd.
- Aug 14 15:58:43 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- melchoyce: If you can help me come up with some specific ways we can improve the copy/links on: http://f.cl.ly/items/1s0J1l1u2N0G3S293E3R/v5-welcome-screen.png, that would be awesome.
- Aug 14 16:03:08 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- Here's the problem I'm running into in my head. I kind of like the idea of having Get Started -- Create Content (making pages) -- Start Publishing -- Show Me
- Aug 14 16:03:24 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- However, the step of static vs. blog frontpage kind of gets in the way.
- Aug 14 16:04:15 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- You can't assign a frontpage without having pages created, and they won't have a "home" page created until after making it. I guess we could prompt users to change the "sample page" INTO a homepage...
- Aug 14 16:05:05 +0000 2012
- trac-bot
- lessbloat: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/16379 3.5, markjaquith->(no owner), new, Better UI for doing "Page on Front"
- Aug 14 16:05:23 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- And creating a static page is a part of the customizer.
- Aug 14 16:05:37 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- So this new UI will be in there as well.
- Aug 14 16:06:45 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- That solves most of that problem. Man, you are on a roll.
- Aug 14 16:06:49 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- We just need to find someone to build it out. ;-P
- Aug 14 16:07:20 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- SergeyBiryukov put up a patch - not sure what it does (haven't tested it myself)
- Aug 14 16:08:48 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Ah, I missed that. I'll check it out.
- Aug 14 16:08:55 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- Can I grab the balsamiq file for this version?
- Aug 14 16:09:12 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- hi all - getting caught up with all of the above now
- Aug 14 16:09:25 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- lessbloat, paternity leave? Congrats, man!
- Aug 14 16:15:25 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- So it looks like my trial copy of balsamiq expired yesterday. I should be getting a license from work in the next week, but for now I can only give you a screenshot: http://cl.ly/image/0247460X1x00
- Aug 14 16:18:04 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- I figure we want to start them doing two things: getting acquainted with adding and editing pages, and doing the same with posts
- Aug 14 16:18:33 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- melchoyce: Where does the "Add some content" link take you?
- Aug 14 16:20:37 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- melchoyce: We could always just look to see if they have set a static homepage (and whether they've got a blog activated as well), and tweak the links accordingly.
- Aug 14 16:20:46 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- In my head, I imagine it taking you to the page you set as your frontpage (if you set it as static). If you set your frontpage to blog, then it could potentially say something else -- yes
- Aug 14 16:22:07 +0000 2012
- melchoyce
- I don't know how hard that would be to do, but if they set a blog as their frontpage, maybe we could put the two blogging-centric items first, then the third would be something like "Create an about me page"
- Aug 14 18:01:32 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- ha ha - paging helenyhou to aisle 1.
- Aug 14 18:01:46 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- i'm STILL on a phone meeting, ugh :(
- Aug 14 18:02:16 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- ping Chexee, sabreuse, isaackeyet, azaozz.
- Aug 14 18:03:32 +0000 2012
- Guest56536
- I feel tremendously stupid -- what's the command to change your username?
- Aug 14 18:03:55 +0000 2012
- Guest56536
- I can't find it in colloquy's interface anywhere
- Aug 14 18:04:19 +0000 2012
- isaackeyet
- koopersmith: pong (busy for now though, I'll check in in a bit)
- Aug 14 18:06:19 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- what's on the agenda for today?
- Aug 14 18:09:45 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- let's do a status check-in. first: welcome screen. there was chatter earlier - where exactly would we say we are? lessbloat mel_choyce Chexee
- Aug 14 18:10:09 +0000 2012
- Chexee
- sorry, i'm not going to be able to be in today :(
- Aug 14 18:10:25 +0000 2012
- Chexee
- but i ran into a bunch of stuff last week and didn't look at it much
- Aug 14 18:10:25 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- So, I just hopped back into things this morning from being off for 2 weeks.
- Aug 14 18:11:40 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Nothing is set in stone. If you guys have feedback, please leave a comment there.
- Aug 14 18:12:15 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Looking to really refine bothe the copy and the links, and potentially make the links different if someone has a static site.
- Aug 14 18:12:40 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- But again, nothing is solidified just yet.
- Aug 14 18:12:58 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- we *really* need to get it solidifed so it can get made in code, though. think we can do that this week?
- Aug 14 18:13:09 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Hoping to get something coded up and tested rather quickly (within the next week).
- Aug 14 18:13:33 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- I've started getting the v5 screenshot into code; any further wording refinements can go straight in, but the sooner the better
- Aug 14 18:14:22 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- How do people feel about the message changing slightly based on whether or not you've set a static or blog frontpage?
- Aug 14 18:14:32 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- My plan is to just keep iterating until we've nailed it (so, again, if you see anything that can be improved, please let me know).
- Aug 14 18:15:28 +0000 2012
- bootsz
- I do too, although I feel like setting the a vs. blog front page isn't something that happens right away with new users
- Aug 14 18:16:09 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- yay mattwiebe! thanks for joining :) will get to you in just a sec
- Aug 14 18:16:40 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- bootsz: maybe, but i don't think there's a harm in providing different paths.
- Aug 14 18:16:50 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- I think with directing people to the customizer with an explicit "first", they'll at least be more aware that it's a choice.
- Aug 14 18:17:03 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- it's also a good internal demonstration of altering the text... because we should be making it all hookable while we're at it
- Aug 14 18:17:31 +0000 2012
- bootsz
- helenyhou: Yes, making it hookable would be amazing
- Aug 14 18:17:41 +0000 2012
- bootsz
- I'd love to be able to customize that area
- Aug 14 18:18:11 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- okay so: welcome screen plan for the week. nail down the text/flow. see where code-side is come next meeting.
- Aug 14 18:19:05 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- lessbloat: right, so next week would start tests, then :)
- Aug 14 18:19:45 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Unless I can get to it sooner. ;-)
- Aug 14 18:19:55 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- lessbloat: let me know if you want to do anymore brainstorming
- Aug 14 18:19:56 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- i am all for sooner! just want to set *minimum* goals :)
- Aug 14 18:20:11 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- okay. next up: color picker. #21206
- Aug 14 18:20:12 +0000 2012
- trac-bot
- helenyhou: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/21206 Awaiting Review, lessbloat->(no owner), new, Replace Farbtastic color picker with ???...
- Aug 14 18:20:50 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- mattwiebe was working on this with devin price at WCSF dev day, looking at integrating automattic's iris.
- Aug 14 18:20:59 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- mattwiebe - got a good idea of where you guys are/were with it?
- Aug 14 18:21:55 +0000 2012
- mattwiebe
- Haven't made any more progress since then. I had some family stuff post-WCSF that took me out of commission.
- Aug 14 18:22:15 +0000 2012
- mattwiebe
- I'm planning to hack on it this week, get a patch ready.
- Aug 14 18:22:31 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- awesome. i think devin had some functional code working too, so let's try to get you two working together on that
- Aug 14 18:23:10 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- there's a question about IE7 support in the ticket - how is that handled on wp.com?
- Aug 14 18:23:11 +0000 2012
- mattwiebe
- Yeah, I'll ask him for the patch of where he was, and then go from there. And tackle the unified UI for all color pickers simultaneously.
- Aug 14 18:23:15 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- this should also get tackled while you're at it: #19616
- Aug 14 18:23:15 +0000 2012
- trac-bot
- helenyhou: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/19616 Future Release, trepmal->(no owner), new, Color Picker consistency
- Aug 14 18:23:34 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- IE7 may boil down to just showing the hex input, no fancy JS-y picker
- Aug 14 18:24:02 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- no problem with that, as long as we have some kind of failover
- Aug 14 18:24:14 +0000 2012
- mattwiebe
- sabreuse: we only use it in the customizer, which doesn't work for IE7, so that was easy. Otherwise, what helenyhou said. Progressive enhancement.
- Aug 14 18:26:02 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- so what do we think would be achievable for the week? basic patch showing implementation somewhere? customizer or a settings page, whichever (or both).
- Aug 14 18:26:52 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- also: yay for mattwiebe for listening to some of our UI/UX griping and making some changes on the spot :) the slider-picker looks so nice.
- Aug 14 18:27:20 +0000 2012
- mattwiebe
- I'll target customizer first. But I'm going to make it a reusable JS widget-y type thing, so work done there should be quickly portable elsewhere.
- Aug 14 18:27:58 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- awesome. we'll probably keep picking at the UI a little bit (you know, that swatch thing) but basic implementation would be a really good step to get moving.
- Aug 14 18:28:32 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- mattwiebe: perhaps make it work on the basic settings pages first, should be easier to tweak
- Aug 14 18:29:08 +0000 2012
- mattwiebe
- azaozz: yeah, that's likely true - good idea.
- Aug 14 18:29:52 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- i am down for whichever one gets working :) just want to see it move forward!
- Aug 14 18:30:05 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- koopersmith: you've looked at the JS-developery side, yes?
- Aug 14 18:31:02 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- helenyhou: a bit, yes. was just looking through it again now, actually. I'll be sure to go over all of that fun stuff with mattwiebe. :)
- Aug 14 18:31:07 +0000 2012
- mattwiebe
- He has, but there will be future nitpicks on that side as well. :)
- Aug 14 18:31:24 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- okay :) i will let you two have at that, then.
- Aug 14 18:31:56 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- going to keep moving: page on front. #16379
- Aug 14 18:31:56 +0000 2012
- trac-bot
- helenyhou: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/16379 3.5, markjaquith->(no owner), new, Better UI for doing "Page on Front"
- Aug 14 18:32:01 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- SergeyBiryukov: are you around by chance?
- Aug 14 18:33:08 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- so there's a patch on that ticket from sergey, although i personally haven't look at it (yet) and don't know what it does. would love for somebody to test it out and, if needed, keep working on a patch. i think it needs to be extended to the customizer as well.
- Aug 14 18:34:03 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- any dev-types want to run with this one? it's a "really really want and i will make you cookies" task :)
- Aug 14 18:36:40 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- ouch. guess i'll try again in dev chat tomorrow. my cookies are really awesome, you guys. koopersmith and nacin can attest to this.
- Aug 14 18:37:46 +0000 2012
- nacin
- I don't recall because they were so good I went into a coma after.
- Aug 14 18:37:48 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- just tried Sergey's patch, and it works fine for me
- Aug 14 18:38:46 +0000 2012
- nacin
- there are a lot of things to test here.
- Aug 14 18:39:13 +0000 2012
- nacin
- collisions with an existing page; modifying that setting and moving a page; creating a new page; handling a '/' in there, which would mean a tree of pages.
- Aug 14 18:40:12 +0000 2012
- nacin
- we may want to track when a page is created in this manner, so we know we can rename it later on.
- Aug 14 18:40:54 +0000 2012
- nacin
- oh, and the title of the page matters too
- Aug 14 18:41:00 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- yeah, need to start with the most restrictive setup first
- Aug 14 18:41:04 +0000 2012
- nacin
- which the latest UI from lessbloat does not yet account for.
- Aug 14 18:41:13 +0000 2012
- nacin
- because the title of that page will be used in wp_title, IIRC.
- Aug 14 18:42:15 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- you do recall correctly. also the_title().
- Aug 14 18:42:51 +0000 2012
- nacin
- (kidding, just gently mocking lance, who isn't even here)
- Aug 14 18:43:31 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Ignorant question: We can't just hardcode a title (e.g. "Homepage", "Blog")?
- Aug 14 18:44:05 +0000 2012
- nacin
- technically, we could, and they could go into the "All Pages" screen to then modify it
- Aug 14 18:44:18 +0000 2012
- koopersmith1
- We're going to show it in the pages screen?
- Aug 14 18:44:30 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- + translations? And what if such page already exists
- Aug 14 18:44:32 +0000 2012
- nacin
- I would continue to do so for now.
- Aug 14 18:44:44 +0000 2012
- nacin
- azaozz: __( 'Blog' ), and if the page already exists, we take over that page.
- Aug 14 18:45:07 +0000 2012
- nacin
- showing it in the All Pages screen makes sense. what we can do, though, is if you are on the page_for_posts page, we remove your editor, or something.
- Aug 14 18:45:21 +0000 2012
- nacin
- alexking proposed some kind of UI change in a long-ago ticket
- Aug 14 18:45:34 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- I was just going to say, there's a ticket for that
- Aug 14 18:45:34 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- better than showing the editor, at least
- Aug 14 18:45:40 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- we had also started discussing that system pages idea as well
- Aug 14 18:45:48 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- but still seems a little backwards to me
- Aug 14 18:46:11 +0000 2012
- nacin
- koopersmith: I agree, and if the title is the only thing that truly matters, we should probably be fetching, showing, and saving it from that page directly.
- Aug 14 18:46:24 +0000 2012
- nacin
- if they really wanted to do a page template or something else, they can from the All Pages screen
- Aug 14 18:46:44 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- Ah, page templates still take effect on the blog page?
- Aug 14 18:46:47 +0000 2012
- nacin
- I am happy to review anything that sergey and others have done, and really dig into it to make sure it works to my liking.
- Aug 14 18:46:59 +0000 2012
- nacin
- koopersmith: I actually don't know about that.
- Aug 14 18:47:31 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- nacin: We should look into it. If the page is basically a glorified shortcode, I don't see the point in showing it
- Aug 14 18:47:32 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- i think page templates can override both blog and front page templates
- Aug 14 18:47:58 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- helenyhou: in which case it breaks things?
- Aug 14 18:48:34 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- so, for these 2 pages no page templates allowed
- Aug 14 18:48:53 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- azaozz: Front pages should still have templates, I believe.
- Aug 14 18:49:17 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- But blog pages… helenyhou, you're saying that if you set it to be the blog page, and then you have a page template that overrides it, and it will cease to be the blog page, correct?
- Aug 14 18:49:32 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- azaozz: See the showcase page template in twenty eleven. :)
- Aug 14 18:49:35 +0000 2012
- nacin
- I really don't remember how our hierarchy works here. it's super screwy.
- Aug 14 18:49:39 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- it could still be the blog page, just with a different layout.
- Aug 14 18:50:03 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- so long as you're not mucking with the loop i don't see why it would necessarily break it, or cease to be the page_for_posts
- Aug 14 18:50:17 +0000 2012
- nacin
- it's buried anyway in post.php
- Aug 14 18:50:23 +0000 2012
- nacin
- keep it there, I'm fine with that.
- Aug 14 18:50:40 +0000 2012
- nacin
- of course, this begs the question, should a theme be allowed to say "hey, I have a cool front page template design"
- Aug 14 18:50:59 +0000 2012
- nacin
- because if they did an add_theme_support() with say 'showcase.php' as an argument, we might be able to display that in the customizer
- Aug 14 18:51:14 +0000 2012
- nacin
- (and keep in mind all of this needs to be integrated into the customizer, too)
- Aug 14 18:52:20 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- right. So this is quite the rabbit hole :)
- Aug 14 18:52:29 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- nacin: can you leave a big ol' comment with all of the above on the ticket?
- Aug 14 18:52:40 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- would be nice to handle all these cases though
- Aug 14 18:54:20 +0000 2012
- nacin
- can the next rev of the mockup include page titles?
- Aug 14 18:54:27 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- However it's done, it won't be quite paving cowpaths, but there's certainly usage.
- Aug 14 18:54:36 +0000 2012
- nacin
- well, page title for the page_for_posts page
- Aug 14 18:54:53 +0000 2012
- nacin
- the page_on_front page should/can probably be an Edit link instead of just a page title field
- Aug 14 18:54:59 +0000 2012
- nacin
- as everything they set there *is* relevant
- Aug 14 18:55:07 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Hmm.. I can certainly mock it up.
- Aug 14 18:55:50 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- I'd prefer to just hard code the titles if at all possible (and leave out the extra fields), but if that's not possible.
- Aug 14 18:56:10 +0000 2012
- nacin
- well, the front page's content is actually important.
- Aug 14 18:56:14 +0000 2012
- nacin
- hence my suggestion of an edit link.
- Aug 14 18:56:16 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- lessbloat: Would it be helpful if I just start enacting your mockups in patch/plugin form? Or isn't it worth moving to that point yet?
- Aug 14 18:56:23 +0000 2012
- nacin
- the only thing helpful for the blog page is the title, though.
- Aug 14 18:57:37 +0000 2012
- nacin
- no, page templates do not apply to page_for_posts. only page_on_front.
- Aug 14 18:57:44 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- georgestephanis: Sorry which mockups are you referring to? :-)
- Aug 14 18:58:24 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- oy, okay. so we need to do some better things to the post edit UI for page_for_posts.
- Aug 14 18:58:42 +0000 2012
- nacin
- eh. as long as we isolate the page title to options - reading, then it's a good start.
- Aug 14 18:59:25 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- lessbloat: The welcome screen ones? Or any, really. Just ping me.
- Aug 14 18:59:27 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- is it okay to move on from the finer points of this for now? i have to get moving around 3:15. y'all can hash out in office hours or another time.
- Aug 14 18:59:54 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- our favorite: retina admin images. #21019
- Aug 14 18:59:59 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- These aren't the droids we're looking for
- Aug 14 19:00:05 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- georgestephanis: Might want to connect with sabreuse - I think she's already go something going along those lines.
- Aug 14 19:00:26 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- azaozz: tddewey put up a big patch with the remainder at WCSF dev day, not sure if you wanted to wait on things, or if we should just drop things in?
- Aug 14 19:00:34 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- georgestephanis, started working on it today, but let's check in
- Aug 14 19:01:15 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- azaozz: there are some things that might disappear with media reworkings, but i wonder if it would make sense to just go ahead with it for now and just back it out later if things end up not needed.
- Aug 14 19:01:34 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- helenyhou: was waiting for the css gradients and removal of images to go through, can add that patch now
- Aug 14 19:02:12 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- azaozz: awesome. hopefully everything is also smushed as much as possible.
- Aug 14 19:02:32 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- i also need to go through and make sure things are put in the design repo
- Aug 14 19:02:32 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- yeah, will run all images through
- Aug 14 19:03:14 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- will check in on that during office hours sometime later this week, then.
- Aug 14 19:03:49 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- i'm working on using the edit post interface for attachment editing, which has all kinds of fun rabbit holes. would love a dev partner on this. #21391
- Aug 14 19:03:49 +0000 2012
- trac-bot
- helenyhou: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/21391 3.5, nacin->(no owner), new, Move attachment editing (media.php) to use standard post type UI
- Aug 14 19:04:15 +0000 2012
- nacin
- incredible number of rabbit holes.
- Aug 14 19:04:22 +0000 2012
- nacin
- I have a brief patch where I found a number of gotchas.
- Aug 14 19:04:49 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- i am in the "publish metabox + inherit status" hole at the moment
- Aug 14 19:05:37 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- thinking that would need a completely new admin template, not reusing edit-form-advanced.php...
- Aug 14 19:05:42 +0000 2012
- trac-bot
- nacin: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/21391 3.5, nacin->(no owner), new, Move attachment editing (media.php) to use standard post type UI
- Aug 14 19:06:06 +0000 2012
- nacin
- azaozz: that doesn't really make sense in the sense that the goal would be to make our improvements work for all custom post types.
- Aug 14 19:06:38 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- nacin: right, but then we need edit-form-advanced to be 100% pluggable
- Aug 14 19:06:50 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- azaozz: well, why shouldn't it be? :)
- Aug 14 19:07:16 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- it should, think that was decided when CPTs were added
- Aug 14 19:07:19 +0000 2012
- nacin
- the only exceptions are the title and the editor, and above/below them.
- Aug 14 19:07:27 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- and yes, that. the only thing i really found a need for are those ^
- Aug 14 19:07:46 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- so, let's get around to it, then. :)
- Aug 14 19:08:14 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- nacin: right, it's at about 80%, needs the last few steps :)
- Aug 14 19:09:27 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- so that will be a fun one, and a lot of win. i'll also troll for a dev partner at dev chat tomorrow. don't want to be alone on this.
- Aug 14 19:09:43 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- and finally, left til last so it can't take up the whole time: media. koopersmith?
- Aug 14 19:10:18 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- working on JS APIs and making an infinite scroll thing that's portable and reusable
- Aug 14 19:10:28 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- basically, making our wireframes a reality
- Aug 14 19:10:54 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- working with anybody? need anybody?
- Aug 14 19:11:03 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- the wireframes might have some issues regarding communicating how we save state, so might need to revisit a few things there
- Aug 14 19:12:05 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- for dev things, I'm dragging nacin, azaozz, and others in here and there as necessary
- Aug 14 19:12:32 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- I'm trying to orient things more towards the dev side for now — we have three weeks, and a lot to do
- Aug 14 19:12:54 +0000 2012
- nacin
- big thing is to have something functional in about 3 weeks.
- Aug 14 19:13:04 +0000 2012
- nacin
- we'll have another 3 weeks then to make sure the UI is how we want it.
- Aug 14 19:13:24 +0000 2012
- nacin
- prioritizing having a base is definitely important as then more people can jump on.
- Aug 14 19:14:25 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- have a first raw patch for live galleries in MCE almost ready
- Aug 14 19:15:04 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- we would be changing the Edit Gallery that's at the bottom of the current popup?
- Aug 14 19:15:28 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- it hasn't been touched for ages
- Aug 14 19:16:27 +0000 2012
- koopersmith
- azaozz: not sure what you're referring to, but probably
- Aug 14 19:16:42 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- i have to run away :( i think this can ride on the koop-shiny
- Aug 14 19:16:56 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- will post up a summary either later today or tomorrow (probably tomorrow)
- Aug 14 19:17:04 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- the current place for adding or editing the gallery shoercode is at the bottom of the Gallery tab in the popup
- Aug 14 19:18:52 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- I have one more thing too :) Need a Graphic designer look at #21324
- Aug 14 19:18:53 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- helen out. thanks for chat, everyone! and now have at the office hours :)
- Aug 14 19:18:53 +0000 2012
- trac-bot
- azaozz: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/21324 3.5, grahamarmfield->(no owner), new, Visible Focus within Admin Screens could be much clearer.
- Aug 14 19:19:13 +0000 2012
- nacin
- azaozz: separately, have you seen focus issues in chrome with the help and screen options stuff?
- Aug 14 19:19:24 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- I also have something I'd like to bring up before we adjourn
- Aug 14 19:19:36 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- (or after, I just want some feedback)
- Aug 14 19:19:54 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- nacin: hmm, no. What's happening there?
- Aug 14 19:19:56 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- perfect. office hours that stuff. also #20033, maybe also somebody should look at what #18306 is really doing, see if it actually makes sense or feels weird instead
- Aug 14 19:19:57 +0000 2012
- trac-bot
- helenyhou: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/20033 3.5, ericlewis->(no owner), new, Flip Admin Bar search icon horizontally?
- Aug 14 19:20:16 +0000 2012
- nacin
- azaozz: in chrome, open screen options
- Aug 14 19:20:28 +0000 2012
- nacin
- the div will receive the blue (or gray, depending on OS) focus border
- Aug 14 19:21:13 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- So some of you may have seen Shane Pearlman's recent article on Smashing Mag: http://wp.smashingmagazine.com/2012/08/08/help-us-help-wordpress/ essentially says that plugin
- Aug 14 19:21:38 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- Sorry, essentially, he says that plugin and theme developers have no really UI guidelines
- Aug 14 19:21:39 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- nacin: ah, right. Will fix that asap
- Aug 14 19:22:13 +0000 2012
- nacin
- azaozz: that's the color, yeah.
- Aug 14 19:22:45 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- This isn't the first time I've seen someone bring up WP's lack of UI guidelines, so I figured I would start write out something: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZWPeUSFVYlMxClmHFjuAXuekXcZsLso49G3bDRquHcs/edit
- Aug 14 19:23:34 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- This is currently an incredibly rough and incomplete draft, so I'm looking for a few things: 1) more people to help contribute and write and 2) some guidance on process
- Aug 14 19:23:37 +0000 2012
- nacin
- this could also be paired with the work done a while ago for UI elements
- Aug 14 19:24:11 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- mel_choyce: i am not totally convinced we can write UI/UX guidelines (as opposed to or in addition to providing a style guide), but i would love to see where this goes
- Aug 14 19:24:17 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- basically, i'm afraid we'd be rewriting usability books. :)
- Aug 14 19:24:33 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- but, please have at it. and please everybody, take a look and discuss
- Aug 14 19:24:38 +0000 2012
- helenyhou
- i am really out now :) bye everyone!
- Aug 14 19:24:45 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- I'm hoping that we can try to take best practices and any previous usability testing we've done to provide some guidelines for theme/plugin authors
- Aug 14 19:25:13 +0000 2012
- azaozz
- lessbloat: great. The question for it is: do we need a separate "Accessibility" setting to apply these styles or we can make them work (and look nice) always
- Aug 14 19:25:49 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- Right now it's in this google doc, but currently for anyone to contribute other than comments they need to request access. Should I open it up so anyone can change content?
- Aug 14 19:26:26 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- azaozz: Cool, I'll work up the CSS, and let ya'll help decide if we need an extra setting.
- Aug 14 19:28:42 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- Another thing I'm wondering is what an "approval" process would be like
- Aug 14 19:29:44 +0000 2012
- mel_choyce
- This project also kind of intersects with both docs and accessibility
- Aug 14 20:04:49 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- georgestephanis, you still around?
- Aug 14 20:05:04 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- I'm always around. Lurking. Watching. Waiting.
- Aug 14 20:05:39 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- oh, like he's not creepy at all.
- Aug 14 20:06:10 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- just wanted to check in with you with the welcome screen stuff, since it sounded like you came in at mid-discussion.
- Aug 14 20:07:09 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- we talked a bit earlier (around 11:30 eastern, should be in the logs) about the v5 mockups in addition to what we talked about in todays meeting, in case you want to hunt that down.
- Aug 14 20:07:10 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- Somewhat. Tuesday afternoons seems to be the time for meetings, they all happens at once
- Aug 14 20:07:50 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- That's the latest ones lessbloat kicked up? Were we thinking above the dashboard as current, or a second tab on the dashboard page?
- Aug 14 20:08:55 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- Above the dashboard, I think - the feedback from the core team was all about improving the current version, and anyway, a submenu is one more thing for noobs to have to find, which we don't want.
- Aug 14 20:08:59 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Yep, above the dash, in the current spot.
- Aug 14 20:09:40 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- We can get a working stage 1 really easily - it's mostly a matter of updating text and links, which is what I started on today.
- Aug 14 20:10:24 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- The two parts that are going to be a little more complicated (but not much) will be detecting the static front page vs. posts on front setting, assuming we go that way in this week's iterations,
- Aug 14 20:10:56 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- and making the whole panel hookable, which I think would be a big win for CMS builders as well as making it easier to tweak the panel in the future.
- Aug 14 20:11:34 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- (at the same time, we don't want to just make it a second big panel of widgets above the existing panel of widgets. because soemone will want to do that.)
- Aug 14 20:11:37 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- One-click-install peeps can just shove dreamhost.php or godaddy.php in mu-plugins and override whatever
- Aug 14 20:11:43 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- One last thing will be any links we want to make into walkthroughs (with pointers).
- Aug 14 20:12:12 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- yes. which will mean learning pointers after I ignored them last time ;)
- Aug 14 20:12:13 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- I'm happy to hack that in once you guys are done. :-)
- Aug 14 20:13:08 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Or leave it to the pros… ;-) I'll work on copy for those as well.
- Aug 14 20:14:06 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Any thoughts on what bits you guys want to make hookable?
- Aug 14 20:15:03 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- lessbloat: Whatever you want! We'll go on a whole fishing expedition and hook all the things!
- Aug 14 20:15:41 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- sabreuse: Does if( 'page' == get_option( 'show_on_front' ) ) not work for the page v post checker?
- Aug 14 20:15:53 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- You're a character Mr. georgestephanis. ;-)
- Aug 14 20:16:20 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- lessbloat: A higher compliment has ne'er been given.
- Aug 14 20:17:05 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- add_filter('first_word_of_welcome_panel')
- Aug 14 20:17:19 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- need more granular! make it first character!
- Aug 14 20:17:35 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- Or just filter the whole thing and use regex
- Aug 14 20:17:51 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- <h1 class="welcome-title">Blargh lorem ipsum
- Aug 14 20:18:44 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- if you want to play with regex, you're welcome to take charge of that part ;)
- Aug 14 20:20:58 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- see? even people who like it can't do it.
- Aug 14 20:22:16 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- Yeah, I also refer to php.net all the dang time to remember which parameter goes first in strpos and implode, wanna make something out of it? :-p
- Aug 14 20:24:44 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- anyway, back to what hooks we want
- Aug 14 20:25:25 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- what kinds of things should people be able to add/remove/change there?
- Aug 14 20:25:59 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- right now, it's pretty much text and links without a lot of structure to it to hook into, so we're more or less starting from scratch
- Aug 14 20:28:00 +0000 2012
- lessbloat
- Would it be too much to have 4 areas? 1) the top intro, 2-4) each column?
- Aug 14 20:31:28 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- although we might want to look at ways of making 2-4 more flexible; I don't want to lock into right column, middle column, left column and then have people really need 1 or 2 or 4 in total. So more like description area, and columns area (with the array of what goes in there)?
- Aug 14 20:33:33 +0000 2012
- georgestephanis
- sabreuse: So $cols is an array of columns, and we can dynamically size them based on how many there are on the fly. Then each column in the array is an array of the title and entries in the list?
- Aug 14 20:35:52 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- not overthinking, although all the dynamic sizing stuff may end up later on... hmm. This is not the first time today I've wished that css3 flexbox was already sorted out!
- Aug 14 20:38:20 +0000 2012
- sabreuse
- anyway, I need to get out of here and focus on some other work for a bit -- but I'll keep an eye out and y'all can feel free to ping me about any further ideas
- Aug 14 20:51:24 +0000 2012
- nacin
- 'page' == get_option( 'show_on_front' ) is indeed proper