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Alaa Badarneh / EPA
Palestinian farmers harvest olive trees on the outskirts of the West Bank village of Salem, near the Jewish settlement of Elone Moreh, on Oct. 12.
SALEH, West Bank — Every fall, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians take to the fields to participate in the annual olive harvest, a celebrated national event. Children take time off school and adults skip work to rise at sunrise and walk through the groves echoing with the sound of sticks striking olive branches.
Not only is the olive tree an important symbol of Palestinian identity and culture, the olive oil sector is important to the Palestinian economy and supports around 80,000 families. But the centuries-old tradition is under threat.
"There have been cases of arson and tree uprooting by the settlers," Hamdan Hamdan, who has farmed land in the village of Saleh, a West Bank community with a population of 6,000, told NBC News. "Usually settlers stop us from accessing the trees, just this morning they scared off farmers who crossed beyond the bypass road to their fields."
Violence peaks
The United Nations says that violence from residents of Jewish settlements peaks during the olive harvest. According to a report issued by the Palestinian Authority and the Applied Research Institute, an estimated 800,000 olive trees have been uprooted since 1967, resulting in a loss of around $55 million to the Palestinian economy.
Most countries consider settlements Israel has built in territory Israel captured in a 1967 Middle East war to be illegal under international law. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a longtime supporter of the settlers, has agreed to a limited freeze on construction but refused U.S. administration appeals to extend it. The issue helped scupper 2010 peace talks.
According to the United Nations, around 40 percent of the West Bank is effectively off limits to Palestinians or access is highly restricted.
Settlements, outposts, bypass roads and military bases and 73 barrier gates in the West Bank prevent olive farmers from reaching their groves, the report said. The restricted access and alleged constant intimidation has made regular orchard and tree maintenance unfeasible for many locals.
Village chief Netham Shteyeh told NBC News that the settlement of Elon Moreh was built on 500 dunums of land (1 acre equals 4 dunums) confiscated from the village.
"And now our village is encircled by a bypass road. This gate here is locked all-year round except for several days during the olive harvest," he told NBC News. "Last year they opened it for four days and this year nine. This means 1,000 dunums of our best land is now isolated."
The pressure and intimidation are constant, he said.
"We have been beaten by settlers and soldiers in the past attempting to cross the bypass road," Shteyeh said.
Abed Omar Qusini / Reuters
Israeli soldiers stand guard as Palestinians, sitting on the back of a tractor-driven cart, make their way to harvest olive trees on the outskirts of Salem.
When presented with allegations that settlers and members of the military had harassed and intimidated Palestinian farmers, the Israeli Army told NBC News that they were taking "every measure to ensure the safety and security of the local residents in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank), while persistently combating terror and protecting the residents of the State of Israel."
Activists rally around harvests
The tensions surrounding the annual harvest have made it a magnet for activists who support the Palestinian cause.
Alaa Badarneh / EPA
Palestinians harvest olive trees on the outskirts of Salem on Oct. 12.
"I go olive harvesting to resist the occupation," said Maria Baff, a 26-year-old from Germany who has attended five harvests over the years. "I want to help farmers in achieving their rights to harvest and to protect them from the occupation, from settler violence, from their inability to access their land mainly due to the army, as well as restrictions of access to water, crop (and) tree uprooting and agricultural vandalism."
But it is not all politics for Baff and others.
"It’s also a fun activity working together and learning new cultures," she said.
But Baff said she had seen no improvements to the situation faced by farmers despite official assurances and international pressure.
"You might have a few more permits here and there, a few more opened gates here and there, but they face the same problem as five years ago," she told NBC News.
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Leave a Comment:
well, if israelis shouldnt be in the settlements, then "palestinians" shouldnt be there either. of course youre gonna get beaten if you try to illegally cross a boarder. i dont ever remember a time when mexicans illegally crossing to the US were kindly allowed to do so to pick olives. this isnt a palestinian tradition as much as its a PR stunt to try to make israel look bad.
It is the Israeli settlements that are illegal. See UN resolution 242, unanimously adopted by the security council. (including the USA). When the article says most nations believe the settlements are illegal, it might well have said all countries but Israel believe they are illegal. America's protection of Israel is the only reason the settlements persist.
Settlements is another word for Israeli expansion, removal of Palestinians from their homes and taking and controlling all natural resources for Israel and denying them to the Palestinians. Then Israel wants to know why the Palestinians can't get along with Israelis.
If Israel could find the old Nazi gas chambers I'm sure they would be using them on the Palestinians as the final solution to their problems. At least that would be quicker than the current method of killing them slowly.
The Palestinians aren't trying to cross a border (which you spelled wrong) into Israel. They are trying to cross a border to their own lands. Israel has constantly conducted economic warfare and oppression to weaken the palestinians. The Israelis Ironically are probably the most racist people on earth. I've met many and their religion teaches they are superior to the "Gentiles". Jewish lives are more important than the dog lives of palestinians and americans and anyone else who is not jewish. Jews have traditionally brought about hatred because of a backlash of their own hatred.
Don't worry. Israeli's look bad either way, and for good reason.
Interesting comparison, since it's the Israelis who are the illegals, not the Palestinians.
I don't remember a time when the U.S. illegally changed the location of the border to prevent Mexicans from reaching their own land. Your point is not relative to the discussion, and therefore has no value!
Another sob story about the palestinians that sent suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades, killed Israeli athletes at the Olympics, etc. How soon we forget the nonstop bloodshed they caused. They wanted a war, they got one.
Now the palestinians are portrayed as a peaceful, loving people, innocently picking crops, blowing bubbles and dancing in the rain. Does anyone remember Arafat?
Another viner graciously presented these links on a different article recently to answer that question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHbCGC6amdk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZtiUdl9Cd0
the problem with all you people is that you think palestine still exists, which it doesnt. you lose a war, you lose your land. bottom line. they've held onto the grudge for more than 60 years. if they were respectful, kind, generous people, perhaps their allies (aka: jordan, lebanon, egypt, etc) would've taken them in. but since "palestinians" are hateful, hostile, racist people, nobody wants them.
Kuwait expelled 450,000 Palestinians in 1991 because of their support for Yasser Arafat's treasonous ways. They were told to go back to Jordan because most of them held Jordanian passports.
One would think that if any group of people would be respectful of another persons land, tradition, property etc., it would be the Jews. There was a point in history when they were so hated by parts of the world that other parts of the world had to step in and give them a place to call home. Their thank you to the world, they took more by military force! Yes I know, not the only ones to do so but my point, they should respect other people who are trying to build a home. If the Palestinians built fences and gates around Israeli land, the Israeli army would destroy everything within 1000 feet of it. IMO
All this could have been avoided in 1948 when the Arabs blew it by not accepting their own state.They blew it then are are still blowing it now...All the rest is blah,blah,blah
What part of territory Israel captured in a 1967 Middle East war don't they understand???? It is NOT THEIR LAND!!! They were MIGRANT WORKERS...not land owners!!!
Go home palestinians, just go home!! Oh that's right, no one wants you!!
Having been to Israel this summer, you can tell where the palestinian neighborhoods are.....the trash is piled up past the rooftops!!! They are pigs!
TO jew-101; You, buddy are a bigoted, full of hatred jew who gives the Good Jews a bad name. Go back to your NYC PsychoAnalyst. Listen buddy, IF you "feel that strongly" then join the israeli army; they probably would Not accept you due to personality disorders. The Palestininians have a right to their homes and Property, which you "settler" Parasites forcibly take. And Stop Stealing their delicious Olives You B@$T@RD.
Phantom,
If you feel so strongly, feel free to join Hamas, they will accept anybody, especially for a suicide mission.
Palestinians can have property and home as long as they don't attack Israel out of those, and they could have their olive groves if they were not using those to sneak suicide bombers into Israel.
Hitler's hatred lives on through his proteges. The abused end up as the abusers. And so, the hatred continues on forever. WHY?
In this case, the abused learned to stand up for themselves, so Hitler's proteges who want to continue his work are frustrated.
The settlers' actions are violations of international law as well as individual property rights, period. Some of the settlers emigrated from the US and express the same attitudes about Palestinian landholders that white Americans expressed about Native American tribes.
Fedup--even if territory is taken and occupied by a nation, under international law that nation must respect the individual property rights in the region. No different than whites taking over Indian lands and burning Indian encampments in the 18oo's.
"Another Palestinian sob story"?? "they are blocked from accessing the olive trees for harboring Hamas suicide bombers" Are you kidding? The settlements are illegal by international standards and the settlers were preventing to quote the article...."a centuries old tradition". Sometimes news falls into a gray area but this time its in black and white with the settlers tactics being unsettling. I believe that there is a relative percentage of Israelis within Israel who want a permanent peace and would hope the settlers abandon the settlements.
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969.
AH YES, THE PEACE LOVING MUSLIMS STRIKE AGAIN
http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/report-from-israel-50-rockets-fired-from-gaza-into-south-israel-4-israelis-injured/
Imagine if Canada restricted your access like that in america. what would u do? mr. Fedupwithfed? would you sit back and sing praise to Canada? isreal occupies 40%? and we back isreal?
two terror groups, arguably the first terror groups, where created in 1945. the IRRGUN and Stern GANG. they where not muslim, hint hint. The PLO came into being in the late 1960s. Try some math. One of the original comanders of the HAGANA warned " terror breeds terror. (dr. Karl Weiss). The palestinians once lived on that land that is now called isreal. how do you think they got tens of millions to abandon their homes and flee to the west bank of Jordan? any clue? no? didnt think so. here, have some more kool-aide. Isreal was created through terror.
how do you think they got tens of millions to abandon their homes and flee to the west bank of Jordan?
Here is how, Arab states told them: just step aside for a moment until we slaughter all the Jews, then you can come back.
So they stepped aside, but Jews had the nerve not to get slaughtered.
So disappointing.
Ridiculous. Many of the settlements were built on open land outside and between populated areas. In a number of like settlements Arabs and Israeli live side-by-side and their children play together without fear. There is zero reason why this cannot be the case everywhere in Israel.
By the way, there aren't a whole lot of natural resources to control in a lot of these places. Those Palestinians who don't want to get along with Israel want to do to Israel exactly what you accuse them of doing. Those who do not want to get along want their own State with the elimination of the Jewish State in its place. It is hard to get along with that mindset.
Why do the Israelis not harvest?
Because its not their harvest. The groves belong to the Palestinians and the Israelis are bullying and sabotaging, trying to get them to give up and leave so they can expand the illegal settlements .
Once upon a time, that was known as "ethnic cleansing".
No, keeping others from attacking you was never known as "ethnic cleansing", it was known as "self-defense" until Jews started doing it.
Armchair quarterbacking are we? You only know what you hear and that is from one side of the argument.
Are you going to tell me that you know what’s going on in your own “neck of the woods,” let alone here? Yes I’m here watching both sides do stupid things on, mostly, rare occasions. As far as the military at border crossings and rare excursions into these territories, isn't the protection of land and people (including the Arabs land and people) what an army is for?
Rockme are you really that stupid or just a racist ignorant POS !
Hitler's hatred lives on through his proteges--the abused end up as the abusers. And so, the hatred continues on forever--cyclical madness. WHY?
"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail"
-- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994
[Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]"
You must be referring to the Muslims who swore allegiance to Hitler and Ante Pavelic, a Croatian fascist. I'm sure you've heard of the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar but just playing innocent victim as usual.
The Israelis do try to harvest their own olives, but quite often find out that the trees were stripped by Arab thieves and then uprooted and/or burned.
Every single claim of destruction of Arab groves by Israelis has been debunked this year. Surveillance cameras captured the Arabs themselves -accompanied by their "humanitarian" accomplices- as they were destroying their own groves (after harvesting the crops, of course) just before calling the journalists and the police with accusations against their Jewish neighbors.
Why is MSNBC not mentioning these facts, or the theft of an entire herd of goats by Arabs, from a Jewish farmer, or the Itamar family slaughter at the hand of Arab young men who had "cased the joint" during the "traditional olive harvest" which allowed them to cross through the Jewish village -under Israeli Army protection, no less- on their way to their groves.
Is MSNBC trying to emulate the BBC shoddy journalism, or are Jewish lives less valuable than Arab olives in Judea-Samaria?
Why don't the parasite Jews harvest the Palestinians plives? They do, they do. They also steal their land, water, freedom and hope. It's a ZioNazi tradition ya'know?
Why do they do this to people without a military or US supplied military weapons to defend themselves with? Because the the Great Satan arms 'only' the Jewish Bible demons who prefer to murder and pillage. I mean, aren't they 'Lucifers' Chosen?
Wow!
Somebody still can't get over loosing WWII.
What's up with NBC - each day they run a story sympathetic to the PA cause - olives, beer - yet every day - EVERY DAY bombs are raining on Israel from Gaza - and the world is silent. I can hardly wait for tomorrows piece - PA boy rushed to hospital with stubbed toe!
It most certainly does. Main Kampf is a best-seller in Palestinian bookstores. That explains why they want the Jews exterminated.
To answer the question of why the israelis dont farm the olive trees and harvest? thats manual labor workin for the man. the israelis are far to busy with their worldwide control of banking institutions and coming up with new ways to implement usury on the goyim (that would be anyone who isnt jewish). people always forget, or actually never knew in the first place that the israelis are above the muslims as Gods chosen people, Gods children. That also includes their dislike of christians, They want nobody in their land but the jewish. Its all fine for the christians to stop by and visit while they are on vacation to the holy land, as long as they spend lots of money that is. Im not against the jewish in general, i dont like the Israelis, Theyve even made up a word for anyone who doesnt like them, they call anyone who doesnt like them antisemetic. Its odd that no other people on earth have a name for pople who dislike them. The best others can come up with is white haters, black haters, muslim haters, and so forth, I think its crazy that they have this whole antisemitism thing working in their favor, they scream antisemitism and that person might as well be the devil.
That's claptrap. There are many Israeli olive harvesters. Visit a Kibbutz sometime and meet some.
Holy shades of Mein Kampf and The Protocols! I can tell what you spend your time doing.
Another lie. Many Arabs have legal, Israeli citizenship. Arabs participate in the Knesset. Jews don't want them there but they let them serve in high government positions? OK....
Ever read some Islamic literature? It is the exact same but in reverse. According to many of them, the Jews lost their favored status and the new chosen are adherents of Islam. Yet, I would venture to say that that would not bother you as much as Jews claiming to be the chosen of the LORD. If you believe the Bible you have to admit that Israel was chosen by God unless you are willing to tear some pages out. And, then there is the matter of many Christians who believe only themselves as chosen of God to the exclusion of all else. Many more than Jews make such statements and have such beliefs.
Ignorance. Antisemitic means "opposed to Semitic people" and Arabs also are Semites. If you have a dislike for any Semitic people you are antisemitic. At least your verbiage shows you openly admit to being that.
To add: Turning to OED, I found that the first known recorded usage of the term antisemitic in English was in 1881. But, I also consulted a number of sources and found that the term was coined in 1879 by a Jew-hating fellow by the name of Wilhelm Marr. So, it wasn't Israeli who "made up" the term. It was a Jew-hating German who created the term and a few years later it ended up in the English language.
A group of terrorist, kidnapped an English soldier. they choked him to death. they then put a rope around his neck and hung him from a tree. They placed an improvised explosive under him hidden by leaves. when the English came to cut him down, the explosive went off causing one to lose his legs. This event happened in 1946. The terror group was the stern Gang. they where the military arm of the HAGANAH. which is the founders of Israel. The Arabs learned terror from the stern gang and Irgun. It was 20 years latter that the PLO was formed.
Poor British, and they were so nice to Jewish refugees in that region, only turned a few hundred of them over to the Nazis.
Once upon a time, that was known as "ethnic cleansing".
You are so clueless, Expat, that you don't even know what ethnic cleansing really is. Israel is not doing that.
Read about what is happening in Africa and you will see real examples of ethnic cleansing. Israel is trying to incorporate "Palestinians" into their society and is working hard in the legal system to create like opportunities and greater equality for those who wish to live within the system instead of becoming part of the problem rather than the solution. You should read the following article written by a Bedouin Arab man who served in Israeli government and who considers himself Israeli. Read it here:
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Lost-in-the-blur-of-slogans-3169337.php
First of all, the "olive harvest" began with the Jewish people. And if you have ever been to Israel, you would know that there are enough olives there, to drown people in the oil. What a typical load of pro-palestinian BS. Give it Up-Mess-NBC, you've got your muslim sympathizing POS in the White House, but GOD has HIS Truth in The Earth and HE will deal with you One at a Time. Glory Be To YHWH and Israel Forever!
Alan,
Attitudes like yours are the reason conflict persists in the middle east.
You sound like such a classy, intelligent, loving person. I am sure life is working out so well for you.
Israel is a made up state of Russians and European undesirables that even the Europeans tried to rid the world of, unfortunately for the Palestinians they have to live with what the European refused to live with, that entity. Demographics and the region I have no doubt will consume them.
Yes, we know. Palestinians are "children of a lessor god". While the new testament teaches all people are equal children of God, bible believing Christians know that the one exception to this rule are any people that Israelis despise, so it's okay to persecute Palestinians, because God actually has a racist streak in him.
Alan:
That's pretty limited historical view. I'll just quote a French archeologist I met in Ramallah that said, all archeologists dig into the earth until they find the evidence of their people. At that depth they stop digging and declare that point the beginning of history." But really, that's beside the point. History is no justification for oppression. Israeli occupation has gone way beyond the needs of security. Walls are being built and security fences going up in places with little or no history of violence and are clearly designed to separate communities, disrupt economic activity and expand settlement activity. I recently ran 120 miles from the South Hebron Hills region through parts of Isreal and north to Jenin. Along the way it was clear that Palestinians are suffering economically from the loss of olive trees. Each tree generates approximately $200/year for a family and over a million olive trees have been destroyed by settlements, walls, fences and "Israeli Only" roads. Do the math. The poverty in the region speaks for itself. You can quote bogus historical or subjective viewpoints all you want, but the reality is that Palestinians are living under a system of Apartheid that cannot be justified based on historical repression of the Jewish people or the security needs of Israel. Fortunately not all Israelis I've met share your view. Many Isrealis, especially those that have entered the occupied territories and spent time with Palestinians, have a deeper understanding of the complexity of the situation and understand that no one will have true peace and prosperity in this region until everyone does. I wish you well on the journey of discovery and would encourage you to open your heart and mind...and maybe cross a barrier and see the other side.
Timothy
To Alan-1380274
If your post was intended to enflame antisemetic feelings, you have succeeded. You are a loser.
If all the Jews currently living in the USA would go to Israel, then I would support their persecution of Palestinians, and I would encourage those Palestinians to emigrate to the USA. Such a move would make America a better place to live.
Very good post Alan, just ignore all the antisemites who start jumping up and down when they hear someone state the obvious.
Huh?
Pardon me captain but since Alan was collapsed, thought I'd repost it here.
"We have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?""
David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
And yet the Israeli population is 20% Arab and the official languages are Hebrew and Arabic. Do you haters not have any new material, anything that is not tampered with or partly-censored?
Every international law in existence says the Israel’s occupation and settlement of the West Bank is illegal. The byroads in question crisscross the West Bank. It is the West Bank on one side and the West Bank on the other. There is no border anyone is crossing in order to reach their land. If another nation built a road in between your home and your job and you were assaulted when you tried to go to work in the morning, would you be to blame? Thank you MSNBC for having the courage and integrity to show the truth about what is happening.
Jen,
The article is hardly the truth. Palestinians burn down their own trees and blame the Israeli. They shoot their own people and use them for human shields, and blame the Israeli for the deaths. The mainstream media has fallen for the propaganda (and sometimes even have participated in spreading it) for years.
Google "Pallywood" and watch the entire video footage to see examples of the Palestinians creating the news. Or, visit the source and look at the footage and source texts.
http://www.seconddraft.org/
Olive harvests did not begin with Israel. When Jehovah led "his people" to the promised land (God's term according to the OT), Moses had his troops cut down the trees, killed the cattle, and killed every man, woman, and child they could find. "Everything that breatheth" the Bible says.
I say: the USA should stop aiding and spending billions on these people. If God indeed chose them, let God protect them.
Recall when the bible was written, that's how things were done back then.
Israel did just fine protecting itself before USA started helping. Right now, we are helping them because it's good for business:
1) They share intelligence and military training.
2) They share tech discoveries, such as cellphone, twitter or printer.
3) The aid goes right back here in weapon-purchase, to create jobs in USA, but if you have no need for one of those, we'll all understand.
we trained israeli fighter pilots and infantry officers in Camp Pendleton 1966.
USA provided satellite intelligence during the 1973 war with Egypt
USA tax payers provided Israel the best military hardware in the world
When did Israel start doing fine without the US? Modern Israel has depended upon US security since its inception after WWII. How did Israel's economy grow to the point that it could afford the most modern of weapons and nukes? Our economy could do fine without having to give Israel aid, so they can turn around and buy US arms.
John, glad you realized that "they can turn around and buy US arms". I am sure you also know what our billions to muslim countries go, terrorism, against us. Consider billions to Egypt, Afghanistan, Yemen, Lebanon, and the list goes on, but the most disturbing is .....Pakistan. At least Israel put it back into our economy. Don't forget that. And by the way, they were not dependent on us from inception, we were not even the first to recognize them, and they won their first war in 1948 without our help. Don't forget that either.
Always trying to highjack the discussion this armenian chick, stay on the subject. Point well taken John.
Eli:
Ohhhhhh. ok. Well THAT makes it okay to kill, maim and oppress the Palestinians: it creates American jobs. How could any of us have questioned such a noble motivation? I'm sure it has nothing to do with racism, nothing to do with any old fairytale books' 'principles' or simple, age old greed for the land. You're right; y'all should just wipe them all out and try not to get any blood on your shoes. Screw them, their families, their rights, their traditions and screw those outdated things called morals....what was I thinking?! And I'm sure that all the news coverage must be anti-semitic lies, since only about 30 of the most trusted news agencies in about 15 of the most trusted countries are reporting the same way, obviously Americans, British, Germans, french, Italians and The Associated press must be all colluding together to misreport the story.....how naiive of me to believe several reports with pictures, film, eyewitnesses and amatuer personal videos, I'm sure they're all made up. And I'm sure that the Mossad broke with Netanyahu's hard-line position and asked for American political intervention to prevent a war because Mossad is infiltrated with anti-Semites, too! What a bunch of fools we are to believe our lying eyes. Ummmm....yeah.
And you said "that's how things were done back when the Bible was written" to which
I say: "Evidently, what is old is new again."
I'm sure that all the Muslim majority countries in the region will just let this all continue, I mean why should the rest of the world have peace when Israelis and Muslims are having a huge, 2000 year old bitch-fight over stupidity? What right does the rest of the world have to peace, when you c*nts aren't happy about everything in your world? Obviously you have the right to bring the rest of us into it while you all act like nuclear-armed, psychotic @!$%#ing babies playing tit-for-tat games with the world's peace and prosperity. What could go wrong, I mean, I'm sure that no Muslim countries are going to want nukes with you guys being so steady, fair and even handed in your dealings with them, will they? Y'all are going to end the human race, in defense of "The Palestinian race" or "The Jewish race" : stupid. Everyone dies, but at least ELI got the last word before the nukes started landing on all of us. Both the schoolyard bullies should be expelled, so the rest of us can get on with learning.
Mohammad was not even born, until about 570 AD. The date under your comment says 2012 AD.
If you do some simple math, you will see how absurd the 2000 year old figure is. If you have this basic fact so wrong what does that say about the rest of your comment?
It's kinda @!$%# ironic, you using the word morals, don't ya think?
http://markhumphrys.com/left.israel.html
Sound like an age old blame the "Jew" meme.
Actually, the Torah forbids cutting down fruit trees or trees that produce anything that can be eaten. See Devarim (Deuteronomy) 20:19-20. Other kinds of trees are fair game in the Bible. In addition, the killing of all animals, men, women and children were extreme situations. In most cases, women who were never mated could be spared alive and become the wives of the conquerors, and animals could become booty in many cases.
And, you would be quite mistaken. If Israel did what was "old" there would not be a single Palestinian left standing today and every one of their cities would have been burnt to the ground. And, they have the complete, military capability to do it but don't. Ask yourself, "Why?"
The Israeli are hardly the genocidal maniacs people like you make them out to be these days.
Somehow or other Israel has found a way to overplay their hand with the American public. What was once almost unanimous support for Israel has transformed into an increasingly critical view as Israel has turned itself from underdog to bully.
There was certainly no unanimous support for Israel in the 40s, when they were more underdog than ever.
Welcome to the Apartheid State of Israel. The last true friend of Nazi Jr. (The Apartheid State of South Africa). It appears they learned from the best.
I takes exceptional idiocy to call Israel "apartheid".
Exactly how many black people were there in the government of "Apartheid State of South Africa"?
Your ignorance is astounding! Arabs sit in the Knesset. No apartheid state would allow a condition like that to exist. How many known Jews were in Hitler's cabinet? How many Africans in South Africa's major government in the days of apartheid? Put down the propaganda and read some real history.
Just another way to beat the Palestinians down. Why do we continue to support this racist society ?
Sounds like the Israelis have turned into the Nazi's the so often cry about. Restricting access to their fields. The hunted have turned into the hunters.
.
The olive was one of the main elements in ancient Israelite cuisine. Olive oil was used for not only food and cooking, but also lighting, sacrificial offerings, ointment, and anointment for priestly or royal office.[16]
The olive tree and olives are mentioned over 30 times in the Bible, in both the New and Old Testaments. It is one of the first plants mentioned in the Bible, and one of the most significant. For example, it was an olive leaf that a dove brought back to Noah to demonstrate that the flood was over. The olive is listed in the Hebrew Bible (Deut 8:8) as one of the seven species that are noteworthy products of the Land of Israel
The discovery of many ancient olive presses in various locations indicates that olive oil production was highly developed in ancient Israel. The oil production center dating from the 7th century BCE discovered at Ekron, a Philistine city, has over one hundred large olive oil presses, and is the most complete olive oil production center from ancient times to be discovered. It indicates that ancient Israel was a major producer of olive oil for its residents as well as for other parts of the ancient Near East, such as Egypt and especially Mesopotamia. In addition to the large-scale olive oil production for commerce and export, presses have been found in ordinary houses, indicating that this was also a cottage industry.
olives harvest began in Greece 14 century BC and in the 6 BC Romans introduced throughtout the Mediterranean
Yet, in that particular area olives were harvested long before Greeks came there.
That's crap. Olive horticulture and harvesting has gone on in the Holy Land for at least 4,000 years, even before Israel got there. That is long before the 1400 BCE date and the date of the Roman period you postulate. Olive oil has been in the use of Israel for as long as they have lived in the Holy Land.
No matter how much land the Israelis steal from the Palestinians, they will always want more. No matter how many treaties are made with the Palestinians, the Israelis always break them. America should choose her allies -- especially those to whom we give billions of dollars every year, to an extent that the quality of life for the average Israeli is now greater than that of the average American -- with more care and a sharper moral compass.
"No matter how many treaties are made with the Palestinians, the Israelis always break them" by getting shot or blown up. Wonderful.
The fact is, of course, that the ratio of Palestinians killed by Israelis is approximately 14 times that of the other way around. But, hey: Don't let facts interfere with your point of view.
Yes, I know it frustrates you to know that so few Israelis were killed, but you can take comfort in the fact that it was not for the lack of trying.
Also, I am sure you wont let fact that Hamas did their best to maximize losses on the Palestinian side get even slightly in the way of your point of view.
It is a fact. But you fail to know the reason for it. Palestinians use their own people as human shields. Israel has a phone-warning system in place. The IDF pick a target. They then call the persons living in the intended target and warn them that they need to get themselves and their families out in five minutes.
What do the Palestinians do when the missiles are on the way? They call all their friends and neighbors to come over and hang around in and on the target.
The Palestinians use hospitals and schools for launch pads and weapons stores for their Qassams. When the Israeli return fire in the directions of the Qassams' launch zone, what do you think they are going to hit?
The Palestinians also fake a lot of deaths or use a few real ones to blame Israel when Israel isn't at fault. See Pallywood and Al Durah: The Birth of an Icon, followed up with Gaza Beach Tragedy, to see some examples. You can watch these videos at http://seconddraft.org/ .
If the USA would simply end the 3 billion per year in aid to the Zionists, then those same zionists would get out of the West Bank in a hurry.
Right, the Zionist would move out and the Muslim terrorist would move in!
Ed, everyone would win in that case.
You guys would love it if terrorists could put a rocket-launcher where settlements used to be and start shooting at Israel, but don't hold your breath. Jew-hunting is not a safe sport anymore, you will have to find something else to do on your spare time.
edpoko- in the ME terrorist tactics were first used by zionist terrorists Stern gang and Haggan.
Jew hunting? get real!!! would this include Jews that are opposed to the occupation?
Those who shoot rockets at Israeli cities and those who blow themselves up on buses don't look in the least concerned that they might hit some liberal Jews who oppose the settlements.
So, I guess the answer to your question is "yes".
Israel was given a portion of land that was taken away from the Palestinians. I am sick and tired of them taking more and more and everyone looking the other way. Here is what you do. Stop giving them money and weapons unless they stop these settlements, period. They need us more than we need them, something they seem to forget and need to be reminded of.
3bi per year make less than 3% of their revenue. If they have to choose between money and safety, they will choose safety.
Meanwhile, if you have any friends who work in arms industry, they will have to look for another job when Israel stops spending those 3bi in USA, and we all know how easy it is to look fro work now days.
Ely - If the 3 billion is so insignificant, why is it the Zionist leaches from AIPAC and the ADL work so hard to keep the American money flowing into Israel? That 3 billion, amounts to over $500.00 for each man,woman and child in Israel. Those people in Israel have done nothing to deserve one dime of Americam taxpayer money.
In short, the population of Israel is nothing but a drag on the US. We have our own welfare recipients to worry about, without helping to support an additional 6 million Jews in another country, who claim to be the chosen people. A people who refer to gentiles as nothing but cattle. End all aid to Israel. We are drowning in debt incurred from fighting 2 wars, instigated, planned and sold by Zionists.
If you were so concerned about American debt you would be all for cutting 20 billion of aid to Arab states.
"A people who refer to gentiles as nothing but cattle." is the claim used only by the most stupid of antisemites, the ones who are to stupid even to find out the actual meaning of the word "goyim" (which in reality means "nations"). So, it's no surprise that you make that claim.
We do not give 20 billion in aid to Arab states. Since Israel's inception, America has provided the parasites well over 100 billion dollars in aid and billions more in military equipment. In addition, money donated to Israeli causes by rich Jews are able to be written off, a benefit not accorded to any other nation.
We purchase the cooperation of some Arab governments and their intelligence units in our efforts to control energy sources in certain Arab countries.
America's true allies are the British, French,Turks, Canadians, Australians and other nations that willtand beside us and fight along side our soldiers if need be, something no Israeli soldier has ever done.
The Israeli people are parasites, which is an undeniable fact.
Yes, we do very much give over 20 billion in aid to Islamic states, and in return they commit act of terrorism against us.
Israelis provide us with intelligence, technology and military training, and the aid that we give them all gets spent in USA, creating jobs here.
Yes, I know your next response, you will post another one of your conspiracy theories, which will confirm your insanity to the world. Enjoy.
If gathering an selling olives is to support the family and continue a tradition - great - don't stop them. If the money gained from selling the olives is used to support the terrorist, then let them starve.
What exactly is a "terrorist"? Can you define that term please?
I'm think it means anyone who is opposed to US or Israeli foreign policy. Because if it means more than that, then there are a lot of pro-USA/Israel terrorists around. Some post here too.
"Terrorist" is someone who kills for no reason that to spread terror, such as blowing themselves up on a buss or a crowded restaurant, or someone who shoots rockets randomly at a residential area.
One man's terrorist is another man's hero.
If those who blow themselves up in buses or slit the throats of babies are your heroes, you might not want to brag about it.
Palestinians also throw their own people off of buildings, like what happened in Gaza, when they don't agree with them or their views.
How much land is enough for Israel?
Why do they insist on torturing the Palestinians when they in fact should understand the evils of torture and hate?
NO MORE "SETTLEMENTS" Period!!
It´s the Arabs who mass murder through suicide attacks and missiles against a sovereign state.They could have had their own state in 1948 but they rejected it,They can go back now and negotiate without preconditions.They blew it in 1948 and are still blowing it! This is so obvious I don´t see how so many people can still support the Arabs,Israel reclaimed their homeland in 1948. The Arabs were offered a state to reflect their historical reality THey rejected this and set out to destroy Israel. Accept Israel as most of the world and the U.N didi in 1948, But no!! The Muslims who occupied the mideast through the sword want it all.Maybe the Muslims should all go back to Mecca and Medina.and stop shoving their religion down the throats of people as they have been doing for 14 centuires° .
"reclaimed their homeland"?????? I do believe there were already people living there before it became a "homeland" for Moses' followers. Perhaps if the Zionists of the 1940's had not insisted on a Jewish only state, the people in the region might be living harmoniously today. Arabs, who had lived in that area for thousands of years, probably thought it was just a little irksome that thousands of refugees from Eastern Europe should claim their land as a "homeland".
Zionists of 1940s never insisted on a "Jewish only state", it's the Arabs who insisted on no-Jewish-state-of-any-kind, and started a pointless war.
Pamela,
You are quite mistaken on a lot of what you write. Arabs are Israeli citizens and function in government in the Knesset and elsewhere. Genetic testing of these European refugees shows matching DNA to Yemeni Jewish groups as well as to the DNA of so-called Palestinians. In fact, Palestinians and many of these "European refugees" share the same 13 common paternal ancestors.
In fairness, you are correct that there were people there when Israel moved in. But, they did have some land rights through Abraham and his purchases. Additionally, many of these who were there before blended with the Israeli population over time. Palestinians also are mainly descendants of those Jews who converted to Islam and Christianity. Both have a right to live there but they need to learn how to live together as family.
But, the fact is that there has been a continuous Jewish presence in Palestine that archaeologically can be demonstrated to have been for at least 3,000 or so years.
Maybe Israel should offer a 'rockets for olives' plan. If the Palestinians hand in their rockets at the checkpoint, then they get to go harvest olives. Sounds simple enough to me.
Your idea seems based on some unexplained assumption. How many rockets do you think are in the hands of the Palestinians? Answer: not as many as there are machine guns in the hands of the Israelis. When the field is flat and the Palestinians have the same military technology as the Israelis, well, guess what will happen then? It WILL happen, only the Zionist and their ignorant supporters think that stealing land will deny that historical lesson.
Through conflict, you become your enemy. Israel is more like Nazi Germany than any country in the world today (well there is Iran and N Korea, but who wants to compete with them?). The Arab world will become armed as an equal to Israel and unless Israel gives up its greed based lifestyle, it will become a wasteland. America needs to cut off its cancerous ties to evil and let the tumor rot on it own.
"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion,
clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with
time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization or Jewish
State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their
lands."
Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
Is Bosnia or Albania a historical land? Can you please explain how muslims got there, just 20 years ago?
Iranian Ralph H is here for his mandated cut and paste misinformation from the ministry of misinformation of the regime of ayatolah murderers.
Historical Muslim land? That would be Spain (the Moors).
Worse than, for instance, Syria?
Worse than North Korea?
Or Iran?
OK Steve, You win the 'I can't read' award for the day.
OK Tex, you win the 'nonsense' award of the day.
Truth to the zealot looks like nonsense. They just cant parse it into information that is usable because their brain foam of propaganda gets in the way.
Thank you for sharing, Tex, we'll try to be sensitive of your condition.
That is so patently false, on so many levels. Where is the genocide? It isn't.
This is one of the many reasons why Israel does not get sympathy from the world. It's amazing, they were almost exterminated in the 30s and 40s, and their response is to attempt to slowly and systematically exterminate the Palestinians. It's sociopathic. Makes complete sense as to why the Republicans defend Israel with such fervor (as well as wanting to corral the Jews in Israel so that Jesus will come back).
The Palestinians have done crazy stuff too but Israel is just as guilty.
If Israel wanted to exterminate Palestinians, they would have got it done ages ago.
Movement from the West Bank is restricted because when it was not restricted, Palestinians kept coming into Israel and blowing themselves up, and Israelis don't want to be blown-up any more. That's all.
The West Bank used to be Jordan.
But, they lost that territory in war.
And, Jordan don't want it back either.
Ever wonder why?
UN 242 was an attempt to appease the world.
It is not law.
Israel claimed this land as spoils of war, wars they did not start.
The Partition Agreement should have settled all this, but Palestine wanted more.
Well, they got less in the process, too bad.
And Germany claimed France, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Holland... So? Does that not seem similar even to a self justifying mind? What did the world do? It bombed Germany into oblivion. That is what will ultimately happen to the Zionists too. They have doomed their great-grandchildren to a life of fire.
BTW, give up on the lie that Israel never started a war against its neighbors to gain land. Read up on the 1967 War started by Israel against Jordan, Egypt, and Syria using American weapons.
In the end, a thief will always be caught and punished.
tex; Interesting you mentioned czechoslovakia. Do you know that country does not exist anymore? You know why? less than just 20 years ago it was divided and part given to muslims to create a muslim country for them.....in the middle of Europe..... while they have millions of sq miles of muslim land in ME, Africa and SE Asia.
maybe you should read a little more!
Egypt amassed over 100,000 troops on the Sinai boarder, Syria amassed 75,000 on their boarder and Jordan amassed 55,000 on theirs (all with armored and mechanized divisions,) on the eve of the 6 day war.
And you would do….what?
Just like India was carved up like a Thanksgiving Turkey to appease islamists. Pakistan did not exist before 1947.
Israel did start the 1967 war and every other war they have been involved.
"The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June
1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff,
which was born and developed after the war."
Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.
“The former Commander of the Air
Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was ‘no
threat of destruction’ but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was
nevertheless justified so that Israel could ‘exist according the scale, spirit,
and quality she now embodies.’...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to
make: ‘In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in
the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We
must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.’“ Noam Chomsky,
“The Fateful Triangle.”
Was
the 1967 war defensive? — continued
“I do not think Nasser wanted war.
The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch
an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.” Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief
of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
Moshe
Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights
“Moshe Dayan, the celebrated
commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the
Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately
provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take
the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan
stated] ‘They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send
a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the
demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot.
If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in
the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.
And then we would use artillery and
later the air force also, and that’s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth
day of the war, were not a threat to us.’” The New York Times, May 11, 1997
Zionists never stop lieing and trying to rewrite history in their favor.
Israel only did the right thing in 1967.
Egypt and Syria were rattling sabers loud enough for Israel to make a pre-emptive strike.
37 seperate strikes to be exact.
Jordan jumped on the bandwagon and immediately got off.
Israel in this instance did the right thing.
After that, NO other wars were started by Israel.
Ralph H representing the decpicable theocratic murderers of Iranian regime is doing his usual job of cutting and pasting made up misinformation. There is no independent brain to think with, no history books to read (ayatolahs don't like educated and informed people), just pathetic posts and try to make those posts as "real" as possible.
Ralph (if that is your name), you should be concentrating on toppling the pedophile regime of ayatolahs and free the Iranian people - not the other way around.
Hey Ralph.
Your quotes are arranged in your favor.
And no, we "Zionist" do not re-write History.
One thing interesting that you "quoted" was that fire fights were intentionally started by Isreal.
Well, starting sh!t is what you do in war.
And if the opposing team didn't want war, they should never have fired back.
What Muslim country came out of Czechoslovakia? Do you mean Bosnis, which was part of Yugoslavia, that has been Muslim for 700 years?
1967 Six-Day War
In the Six-Day War of June 5–10, 1967, the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria,
Lebanon (and later Iraq) attacked Israel. Their goal was “to wipe Israel off the
map”. Israel defeated the attack even though the Arab armies had huge
superiority in armour, aircraft and troops. After the war Israel held the Sinai,
the Golan Heights, Gaza, the West Bank and all of Jerusalem. Some 1 million
Arabs and all parts of Palestine were now under Israeli rule. It is interesting
to note that the area controlled by Israel after this war was the same area
allotted to Israel for Jewish settlement under the 1922 Palestine Mandate (Fig.
3).
Initially, the Israeli government declared that it was ready to return all of
the territories except Jerusalem in return for peace treaties with its Arab
neighbors. However, due to pressures within Israel, and the fact that Arab
states would not negotiate with Israel, an increasing number of settlements were
established on the West Bank.
The pressures within Israel were from the people who were tired of the wars and lack of Arab negations.
Therefore Israel claimed the won lands as is their right to do.
There's your HISTORY Ralph.
Iewer ready - Your post is an outright lie. Read the words of former Isrsaeli leaders and commanders. Zionists have been twisting facts for so long, some of them actually believe what they write. The internet has made available the true facts of the Israeli aggressions.
Stop all aid to Israel. The Jews in Israel are parasites, who cannot or will not support themselves. Instead, they bribe our congress and infiltrate our government, with politicians who work for Israel, such as Eric cantor, Elliot Engle and all the neocons which worked in our government during the Bush administration.
Here is a list. many of these Israelis were behind the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, which has cost America trillions of dollars and thousands of lost lives. Meanwhile, those 2 wars cost Israel nothing and 0 lost lives. American gentiles dieing for Israel, while our crooked politicians keep sending them money and weapons.
American
/ Israeli Dual Citizens in the American Government
Attorney
General - Michael Mukasey
Head
of Homeland Security - Michael Chertoff
Chairman
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board - Richard Perle
Deputy
Defense Secretary (Former) - Paul Wolfowitz
Under
Secretary of Defense - Douglas Feith
National
Security Council Advisor - Elliott Abrams
Vice
President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) - “Scooter” Libby
White
House Deputy Chief of Staff - Joshua Bolten
Under
Secretary of State for Political Affairs - Marc Grossman
Director
of Policy Planning at the State Department - Richard Haass
U.S.
Trade
Representative (Cabinet-level Position) - Robert Zoellick
Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - James Schlesinger
UN
Representative (Former) - John Bolton
Under
Secretary for Arms Control - David Wurmser
Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Eliot Cohen
Senior
Advisor to the President - Steve Goldsmith
Principal
Deputy Assistant Secretary - Christopher Gersten
Assistant
Secretary of State - Lincoln Bloomfield
Deputy
Assistant to the President - Jay Lefkowitz
White
House Political Director - Ken Melman
National
Security Study Group - Edward Luttwak
Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Kenneth Adelman
Defense
Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) - Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
National
Security Council Advisor - Robert Satloff
President
Export-Import Bank U.S.
-
Mel Semble
Deputy
Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families -
Christopher Gersten
Assistant
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs
-
Mark Weinberger
White
House Speechwriter - David Frum
White
House Spokesman (Former) - Ari Fleischer
Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Henry Kissinger
Deputy
Secretary of Commerce - Samuel Bodman
Under
Secretary of State for Management - Bonnie Cohen
Director
of Foreign Service Institute - Ruth Davis
“The former Commander of the Air
Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was ‘no
threat of destruction’ but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was
nevertheless justified so that Israel could ‘exist according the scale, spirit,
and quality she now embodies.’...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to
make: ‘In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in
the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We
must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.’“ Noam Chomsky,
“The Fateful Triangle.”
Was
the 1967 war defensive? — continued
“I do not think Nasser wanted war.
The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch
an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.” Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief
of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
Moshe
Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights
“Moshe Dayan, the celebrated
commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the
Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately
provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take
the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan
stated] ‘They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send
a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the
demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot.
If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in
the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.
And then we would use artillery and
later the air force also, and that’s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth
day of the war, were not a threat to us.’” The New York Times, May 11, 1997
Germany had no ancient roots in those places, since the concept of "Germany" came late to the formation of European States.
Israel, with Jerusalem in particular, has been the fulcrum of Judaism since the times before Christ.
Or Mohammed, for that matter.
Israel is a tiny sliver of the world, that simply wishes to live in peace and be left alone, and not be swallowed up by the enormous Islamic Juggernaut as it seeks to become the Caliphate in this world.
The West Bank used to be Jordan, and Jordan wants nothing to do with the inhabitants of the West Bank.
Egypt blockades Gaza from the south (funny, they don't want Gaza back either), and strangely, Egypt is not branded with the same brush by those who simply dislike Israel.
My post is from history, my son.
READ it instead of tainted newpaper quotes and magazine articles.
Ralphy boy, you lose this one.
And please, stop repeating yourself.
Viewer ready, no amount of lies and deception can erase the historical fact that ISRAEL ATTACKED ITS NEIGHBORS FIRST in 1967. This is not debatable, it is fact. The Israeli lie machine, which has no interest in truth, has been overactive for a few decades but the rest of the world is not buying it. We know it, you know it, they know it. I am hot on the trail of the first written lie and it looks like the Jewish Bible is in line for the prize. END of discussion!
Got to love people who use statements like "This is not debatable" and "END of discussion!"
And what exactly are you going to if we do debate or discuss it?
Cry? Or may be (shivers) log of and disappear? Oh, no!
Israel attacked a military force on the way to attack them, we know it, you know it, they know it.
Even though various idiots are trying to convince the world that there was know attack planned, all those tanks on the border were just out for a joy-ride, all those politicians announcing war on the radio were just goofing around. Gives us all a good laugh.
Also, by the way, there is no such thing as "Jewish Bible". There is a Jewish Torah, Christian Bible (which is basically just Torah with a sequel) and Muslim Koran (which is basically just Bible with a sequel). Keep it in mind for the future, so next time you embarrass yourself a little bit less.
I'm usually in agreement with your posts, Eli but I'll beg to differ on this statement. Got you voted up every where else, though.
Thanks Chefaz,
Yes, I know, the issue of how Koran, Bible and Torah relate to each other is more complicated than that.
I was merely trying to dumb-it-down for Tex.
Eli: If your trying to pretend that no one has done those things in the name of Israel, you should just say it outright so that your fantasy can be challenged. Fighters on both sides have done and continue to do horrible, vicious things to each other: the problem is that no one can tell the difference between you two anymore except one has a buttload of money and pretty uniforms. The relationship of the bible to the torah to the qu'ran is as important a distinction as the relationship of Santa Claus to Jack Frost to the Easter Bunny. I've got a fabulous idea: how about valuing human lives and human rights in the real world over dogma and storybooks about space gods? If you judge by those standards, y'all (Israelis AND Palestinians) have been in an evil, murderous game of tit-for-tat for over 2000 years and both of you evolving past such barbarity has been stunted by "Wahhhhhh, he did that to me FIRST!!!" and "Wahhhh, I was here FIRST!!"
Meanwhile, the rest of us live with both of your constant threats to peace. Grow the *&%$! up! EVOLVE.
If you expect Palestinians to stop rockets to your unpopulated areas (as most of them are) you need to lend them the technology to monitor the factions committing such acts; they cannot attempt to stop these people when they can't even prevent the starving of their children by your military blockade, AND you CONVINCE all the Palestinians watching your actions that THEY should also join the attackers to stop you from strangling their parents/society. Israel has the tech and the cash to do this, Palestine does not. It's not about fault; it's just the way it is. If Palestinians want Israel to live as a good neighbor they'd BETTER create a central intelligence structure and sacrifice these extremist scumbags for the future of their country, stop those factions' attacks and accept responsibility for their own peace including stopping those INNER forces who would threaten it. You all live in this region in the middle of all that desert surrounded by mistrust, if you WANT peace, the key word being WANT, you must live life on life's terms which means dealing with the realities. There needs to be inroads for the sake of the future, not this constant "my god has a bigger dick than your god" contest.
No GBaby,
I am not saying that there was no destruction in the name of Israel, merely that Israel was not the one to fire the first shot, that's all.
Yes, they have better tech and weapons. That's not how they started out. Palestinians have numbers and support form a dozen neighboring states, some of which are not short on cash.
When it's dozen guys with swords against one guy with a gun, those are reasonably fare odds.
Ironically, Israel already tried to do exactly what you described .They gave weapons to what appeared to be the least aggressive party among Palestinians and helped them to gain power in exchange for promise that they will negotiate for peace afterwards.
Well, that party was called Hamas, look how open to negotiations they are now that they are in charge.
Israel also tried to give up land in exchange for peace. They allowed Palestinian state to form in the West Bank, pulled out of Gaza.
They tired releasing prisoners as a sign of good will. Recently, they released a thousand prisoners in exchange for just one. Any results so fa?
Remind me, what exactly Palestinians do to show how much they want peace? I just can't think of anything.
You are right, religion has nothing to do with it, at least not for Israel. For them it's all about survival.
Um, for the record, Allah has no dick. The God of the Torah may have parts but Allah has none.
And, no, this is not an insult aimed at Islam. There is no room for a God who has an image or form in the accepted teachings of Islam. (It is true that many Jews also reject the idea of God having parts as well but it is the literal teaching of Torah that he does).
It is shameful the way information is used, abused and/or absent from reports of this region. The Israelis would like nothing better than a peaceful (yet strenuous for both) co-existence. Is the West bank, Gaza and the Golan heights occupied territory? Yes, but why? It doesn’t take much reading (i.e., Wikipedia?) and comparison of dates to see a direct correlation of military action, intervention and/or occupation. Any topographical map show the high ground that these areas (excluding Gaza strip) encompasses that have historically been used to launch effective attacks on a civilian population. Much of this has been stopped due to occupation. Back to Gaza, with an international boarder and sea, weapons continue to enter the strip and to be deployed on a civilian population. 2012-800 rockets/mortars, 2011-680, 2010-569/289, 2009-569/289 and of course the pre-war 2008-2378 rockets/mortars.
What would you want your government to do if you lived with constant attacks?
Yes it’s a shame that the majority has to suffer because of a few and (in this case) can’t continue to harvest the land (they mostly don’t own!) as they and others have for so long.
It’s a good thing that these families with children get a social security check every month from the Israeli government. Look it up!
Jewish man injured in Palestinian stabbing attack in Jerusalem.
The 34-year old man was stabbed in the back by two Palestinians while walking with a
friend in the Ras Al-Amud neighborhood of Jerusalem from the Kotel Friday night.
Why violent palestinian attacks on jews do not find their way into MSNBC news, but olive trees do?
Anyone can cherry pick stories to support their opinion.
Nobody's calling either side perfect.
In the case of NBC, they seek to portray the Israelis as the aggressors, when in fact it is the other way around.
The most evident proof of this is the fact that NBC reports only a small fraction of the rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel. There are instances of multiple, successive attacks into Israel that go unreported on NBC.
This link shows the amount of humanitarian aid that Israel has provided to Gaza recently but part of the record shows what was fired into Israel, noted in red.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/weeklygazaaid.html
Just one of these incidents would have been enough for some countries to declare war. It didn't take Turkey long to fire back on Syria.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/world/middleeast/syria.html
Israel gets qassams and gives food and medical care in return but yet gets zero credit for it's humanitarian aid and no acknowledgement from the international community about the constant threat that it lives under. Unreal.
the article is about harvesting olives, the destruction of trees and the importance to the Palestinian econmy. past history is that the Jews did some what the same to the Palestinian ORANGE groves, which were known to be the best, and exported around the world! just something else lost too the history books! it's the
Jews from the east that cause the trouble and they control the government!
Yes, "an estimated 800,000 olive trees have been uprooted since 1967, resulting in a loss of around $55 million to the Palestinian economy." The artical would have you beleive that this was done by just the Jewish population.
Considering their has been a large population growth since 1967, it stands to reason that many trees were uprooted by the Palestinians themselfs for housing as does every other population with this need. Why is their no replanting? Yes the settlers do destroy private property as does the Arabs, round and round we go. As far as settlements, who complains about the hundreds of Arab communities (some numbering up to 30,000) within Israel proper? Living, working and prospering!
This back and forth needling has been going on for centuries and is against the law, now, under Israeli law and people are prosecuted when caught. I wish this was always the case but history paints a dim record when the Arabs were/are ruling. Hell they kill eachother for far less.
israel is nothing without our help (financial and military assistance). they need to stop making things worse then whining to the world with this poor me s--t. i am jewish and ashamed of israels behavior. they will drag us into a war, maybe a war including MANY countries. they need a carrot and stick approach, they are not a victim any more. they are instigating hostilities. and crying about terrorist attacks.
I wonder why Israel-bashers feel the need to claim that they are Jewish. It does not make you sound more convincing.
Throughout history there was plenty of Jews who thought that during a pogrom they could just join the other side. It never paid of for them in the long run. Those were not bright or descent people, and you don't want to be like them.
Also, the claim that Israel "is nothing without our help (financial and military assistance)." suggests that you didn't even do your homework. Israel defeated 7 Arab states without our assistance, and they never had any military assistance at all. They got some weapons from US< which they (usually upgrade themselves and share with US later), but US never had to fight for them, not one single soldier.
Bottom line - if Arab nations had not attacked Israel (which was formally created by the United Nations) several times then Israel would now be within it's original borders.
Bingo.
Here are the original borders.
http://seekingtruth.co.uk/israel_borders.htm
And that is the Problem. Israel was "Created" by the United Nations. The land of the Palestinians was Stolen from them and is still little by little being stolen by the Jews today. What if part of Texas was "Created" For Muslims. Would the people of Texas be Mad as hell?? Palestine belongs to the Palestinian people. I don't care what some "Bible" or some God says.
Tarzan - If your muslim brothers don't want to lose any land, they should stop attacking.
The links to who the Palestinian people are listed at post 1.8.
Israel is a restored Kingdom.
Palestine was a name coined by the Romans when they overran the area. It was never a country.
Pakistan is a created country.
There were a lot of changes to the world map post WWII.
Lemmie se if I follow you.
If you hadn't chased the Jewish burglars that stole everything of value from your home.
"You wouldn't have been shot by the Burglars, right?
SOME PEOPLE!!!!
Lemme see if I follow you.
If you move into somebody's house in their absence and get a hold of their staff, but then they come back and take their stuff back, they are considered the burglars (just as long as they are Jewish, that is), right?
SOME PEOPLE!!!!
Yes, it does. It also belongs to the Israeli. Palestinians are descendants of Jews who converted to Christianity and Islam.
But, while on the subject of what God says, you probably aren't aware that the holy book of most Palestinians (the Qur'an) also says that Palestine belongs to the Bani Isra'il (children of Israel, including Jews) and that Allah himself gave it to them to dwell in until the time of the end. See Surah 17:1-9, 101-104 if you don't believe it.
Aside from this, Jews have had a continuous existence in Palestine for over 3,200 years.
Settler violence is nothing new and it's totally wrong, but the actions of a few should not be used to demonize Israel as a whole. There are plenty of Israelis that oppose these acts.
The Israeli government should stop this. Everyone should live in peace.
They have David. A photo in the article shows israeli troops guarding a tractor with palestinians crossing to their groves.
Photo showing IDF troops protecting Palestinians harvesting their olives?!
Photoshop software at work, again, of course.
Ladies and gentlemen,
In case you haven't seen cowboy's other posts, it's my pleasure to inform you that he is not being sarcastic. Yes, that level of nuttiness really does exist. Amazing, isn't it?
For the ignorant haters:
Have you even considered the fact that Bosnia was carved out of Czech in order to create a muslim country in the middle of Europe? Just 20 years ago..... did that escape you or just muslim good jew bad??
Bosnia was part of Yugoslavia. Can you read a map?
Sorry Dave, I stand corrected. Nevertheless, the concept is there.
They've been there for 700 years and actually longer, since they're Serbs that converted back in the 14th Century. Your point?
I think her point is that people are much more tolerant of a formation of a new Muslim state than they are of a formation of a Jewish state.