| You
are in Germany at the moment, is this where you’re living full time?
That is correct,
in-between gigs and stuff I’ve got a flat here.
Have you moved there to get closer to the club
scene? No, it’s nothing to do with the
club scene whatsoever, if anything I’m trying to get further away from
it - which is possible after this next round of gigs for the album,
which is quite a techno-sounding album. But yeah, I just moved to Berlin
through a lot of friends being here, and I’ve been intrigued about the
city for a while. It’s also cheap to live here.
Ok, I’ll try not to make these
questions predictable, but unfortunately people usually want to hear
the same answers. Well at least you’ve
pre-empted that rather than going straight in (laughs), so yeah, go
for it.
As a youth, what artists or perhaps genres of
music particularly interested you? Well,
I was sort of into everything as kid, which made me stick out quite
a lot because I was always into hip hop and rave and metal, and then
I had I started training classically on the violin, but gave that up
in favour of electronics. So, my background is really, really broad.
I was never encouraged as a kid with music, in fact I was kind of discouraged
in some ways until it became clear that it wasn’t a hobby it was like
an obsession, and has been for the last 15 years. But yeah, I listen
to everything really. I don’t really listen to the style of music that
I’m writing at the time, but when I’m mixing I listen to quite a lot
of R&B and hip hop because I love the production on it; but I’ll
just listen to snippets for really anal, technical things. So I never
listen to whole tracks.
A lot of musicians do say that when they’re listening
to music they can’t really enjoy it because they’re too analytical of
it. Yeah,
I mean I’ll listen to The Neptunes and I’ll just hear numbers, I won’t
hear like any of the soul of it at all. I’ll just hear how they’ve constructed
it. It sort of does my head in, it’s like seeing the mechanics of it
rather than the actually thing that you’re meant to get enjoyment from.
Yeah, so that’s really true.
When did you decide to you want to make music
for a living? That was really early on,
I never really considered that it would be a career – all I sort of
new was that the idea of having a job that wasn’t involved in music
would just crush me basically. I just new that I wouldn’t ever give
up on trying to do it. I haven’t really had a proper job since I was
about 16.
What equipment did you invest in initially?
It was an EMU sampler that my friend started using. I’d just have loads
of different bibs and bobs that were all quite cheap and all in mono;
all distorted, all hardware, not really any computers. And then practising
drums and stuff at first, although didn’t really use any of those recordings
on my early work, it just didn’t seem to fit. I went through quite a
phase of being anti-real instruments, which at the time was through
being quite dogmatic and discovering techno and thinking it was the
answer to everything. I’ve still sort of got that side to me, there’s
certain types of live music, or when someone’s churning out cliches
on a guitar, that I kind of think, this is so, so backward. Techno still
sounds like… why wouldn’t you prefer to use those sounds?
Under what circumstances were you signed to Warp
Records? I just sent them tape demos, cassette.
I think it’s pretty unusual that they sign people through that method,
but they did with me.
Was it a momentous occasion? No,
it wasn’t really. I was chuffed definitely, but only for about a week,
then I thought, right I’d better get on with it. The idea of resting
on your laurels or feeling that you’ve achieved something through that
in itself seems a bit short-sighted. It’s a lifelong thing really, I
still don’t feel finished at all with what I’ve done. I don’t think
I’d write music if I did, there’s always stuff to explore.
Within IDM circles - an inevitable category for
your music perhaps, do you have any mates in the industry or do you
prefer to keep yourself to yourself? I
have a lot of friends all over that write music, but none of them… I
was writing music before that term really existed I suppose, but when
I first started writing electronic music I just thought of it as techno.
Even the sort of ambient stuff, using violin samples and strings with
no beats, I still thought of it as techno. I think with this album [Turning
Dragon], it is more of a techno album, but I don’t really understand
the term IDM and most of my friends are kind of “real” musicians, and
we do collaborate on things like that.
I do agree on the terminology, it doesn’t really
mean anything does it? It just seems too
easy to put things into that bracket without having any reason as to
why you’re doing it. I think the whole issue with it is that it’s so
sort of condescending, it’s got this innate superiority complex when
people use that word without any sort of irony and in earnest. The ultimate
irony about it is that a lot of that music is not that intelligent,
it’s clever – and I think there’s a difference between clever music
and intelligent music. You can kind of be clever technically by using
some sort of ephemeral software manipulation technique or whatever,
but intelligent would surely involve… I mean I listen to a track like
Voyager from Daft Punk, and I think that’s truly intelligent, and there’s
nothing really that clever about it, it’s just beautifully constructed
and engages the emotions as well. I don’t feel any warmth or affection
to this idea of solely clever, sort of sneering boys music.
People are just sort of using IDM as an excuse
to noodle away producing mostly rubbish, trying to fool people that
they’re creating something valid. I think
there are people that are still doing… I don’t want to say IDM, but
people that really push technical music to its extreme and you can’t
deny that it’s amazing. I really love fiendishly technical music, I’m
a massive fan of Ligety and Penderecki, and a lot of atonal 20th Century
composers, and you can’t deny the technical brilliance of John Coltrane,
but it didn’t seem so self-conscious, and didn’t seem like it was posing
– I just find a lot of the new IDM stuff, whatever that may be, is just
this kind of front for something, I don’t know.
Most people would say your music is pretty dark
and manic, with occasional moments of clarity and melody – is the work
a complete reflection of your persona or less meaningful?
It’s fairly hard to attach
meaning to it after you’ve written it and released it. I completely
feel that as it’s being written nothing else has got any more meaning,
but as soon as it’s done – because I’ve spent so long obsessing about
it, I suppose the meaning for me evaporates to an extent. Someone else
will play something I’ve done for me and it sort of feels like some
sort of ghost of me that isn’t really me anymore and that’s why I continue
to write stuff. If I’m writing something that someone would say is dark,
I don’t feel particularly dark when I’m writing it – my main sort of
feeling is release, that I’ve got something to get it all out, y’know?
I suppose emotions are transient so music is transient
as well in that respect? Yeah, totally.
You want to express something differently with the next track, it’s
just an ongoing, ever-shifting thing, which is why it’s so involving
and consuming really.
I’ve read a few interviews of yours online, and
you’re quite short sometimes with some of your answers. Do you lend
much credence to others opinions about your music? (laughs)
I don’t mean to be. I don’t know, you can’t really let to much of that
in I guess. It’s really hard in an email interview as well, they’re
possibly the ones that have been more short because you don’t really
feel like you’re dealing with a human. I don’t really know, I mean obviously
it’s pleasant if someone likes what you do, but it’s just bizarre that
these responses are from people that you don’t really know and they
don’t really know you.
It
sort of does your head in if you take notice of it I guess because ultimately
it doesn’t really affect your impulse to write stuff. That comes from
somewhere that’s quite precious to you – I mean I really, really hold
it very dear to me, and writing music has got me through some of the
most dark times of my life, and I feel like if I didn’t have it I would
have pretty serious mental health issues. So like when people kind of
fuck with that it does make you defensive and I suppose that’s a shame
really, because it’s just all misunderstanding on both sides I guess,
which is ultimately – useless. |
Are
you an artist particularly interested in breaking new ground, stretching
the boundaries of electronic music?
Erm, that’s a good question. I’ve been asking myself this actually over
the last few days, because I feel innovation can sometimes mask a certain
sort of hollowness and you’ve got be careful of innovation through solely
technology, because stuff like that can date very quickly when the mask
of whatever technology has been used kind of falls away. You know, innovative
stuff 10 years ago doesn’t sound innovative now, but I have been feeling
recently that there’s still a lot of work to be done in terms of fusing
stuff, which I actually feel my album before this [Body Riddle] did
a lot more, because it used acoustic sounds and fused them with electronics,
and I feel like that’s something that could really be explored a lot
more. I can’t really think of anyone who is doing it in the way that
I’d want to do it.
It is
something I’m concerned with but I also think there’s so much to be
learnt from the past as well that you can’t really ignore. I’ve just
watched this documentary on Scott Walker – I don’t know if you’re familiar
with his stuff, he’s just a like a true maverick. Yeah, it sort of did
my head in how good he actually is – he started off doing very standard
sixties pop for mums and then just completely went his own way when
he was quite a bit older into the pure avant-garde. I’m fascinated by
that stuff, but it’s working out how to strike a balance between that
and the stuff that you enjoy hearing as well.
On your Body Riddle album you did live drumming
then spliced it up. is this sort of self-sufficiency the direction you
believe electronic artists should be heading? Yeah, that certainly
still feels fresh to me that album, and what I was really pleased about
was that I played the drums myself, then sampled them and produced them
to a level that you’d sort of get off break records or whatever. I felt
like I didn’t want to just use samples, I wanted to create it all myself,
and I think what’s really ironic and weird at the moment is that the
most innovative music is the stuff that sounds wrong and out of time.
It’s weird that people are using computers and technology to sound not
tight, but dysfunctional and a little bit fucked. Turning Dragon is
more techno and is kind of on the grid, but with Body Riddle there was
a looseness to it, and I think there’s a lot of work to be done with
that, but I don’t think it’s strictly through the new technology that’s
coming out.
I suppose Boards of Canada are probably recent
protagonists of that dysfunctional sound you mentioned? Yeah,
I really love their first album, that was sort of a lighthouse album
for me.
I presume you work from a home studio?
Yeah, it’s all home based, I hate going into other sort of set-ups.
What equipment could I expect to find there, I
understand you like to keep it fairly basic? I’ve got valve stuff
generally, not expensive. I’ve got really into hardware samplers recently.
I always find that I make my best sounds on old samplers, just because
there aren’t many parameters and you’re really forced to push it.
I think I read somewhere you use Akai’s MPC sequencer-sampler,
is that your main instrument of choice? At the moment is seems
to be yeah, but I’ve got some other bits and bobs. I’m using guitar
pedals and other things as well, and I’ve discovered some weird things
with a Roland SH-09 synth, just plugging the output into an external
audio-in then putting that to tape. I’ve just been waving that around
in front of the speakers, but the tape machine I’m using is mono, so
you get all this lush phasing, and it’s got a pitch shifter on it as
well, so it’s like making these weird sort of sine tone collages.
Another artists who solely uses MPC is Prefuse
73. Yeah, I never use the actual sequencer on it, I don’t particularly
like it. You can re-sample on it as well, it’s just endless – y’know
do a pattern and then re-sample it seven times and you’ve got something
completely different. I’ve always just completely processed stuff and
put it through as much as seems suitable really. It’s great just using
a machine with a limited amount of memory. I’ve got an issue with computers
at the moment – just looking at a screen and having this endless potential
doesn’t make you compose in a particularly sharp way. When I’m writing
on am MPC I just feel completely aligned, completely sharp to it, because
I use it so much that its really instinctive and you feel it more.
But when the tracks are composed do you feed them
into the PC for final editing? I usually just use a PC for a
few mastering things – like a big tape recorder really. It’s sort of
funny that this interview is about this album that’s coming out, because
it is quite metronomic, but other stuff I’ve done and released, and
the stuff I’m doing now, there’s never any tempo that’s open in Logic.
I just use it as something to paint on really, and it’s all really sloppy
and messy before stuff gradually takes shape – but I never really have
one project open, like a track usually consists of about 10 projects
that gradually get bounced into one. It sort of does my head in because
I’ve got thousands and thousands of projects.
So you’re just consistently recording whatever
you feel like doing on any given day then eventually bringing together
music that sounds similar to release it as a project? Yeah, basically.
I handed Turning Dragon into Warp about four months ago, and as soon
as you start writing after you’ve finished an album you’re really kind
of excited. I was thinking, right, I wanna do an EP now, and I’m aiming
for like 4 tracks – and you have all these ideas, but within a week
of writing I tend to find I’ve written so much that it’s not even worth
thinking about, it’s not worth rushing, you just write it all then let
the dust settle a bit and think, yeah it will be wicked to use that
when it’s ready.
There is a music concrete element to your work,
is there a pretentious element to collecting samples or is it a spur
of the moment activity? I used to do a lot of stuff with found
sounds, but I tend to use what’s to hand really – now everything tends
to go through this valve compressor. Sometimes it’s like finding the
perfect stereo atmosphere on a mini disc that will complement a mix,
and that involves getting out of the house for once.
When you’re composing do you ever think to yourself
that you need a particular sound, and know exactly what sound you want,
but then need to find a way to create it? Oh, all the time, I
never stop thinking about stuff things like that. This thing I’ve been
thinking about recently is how to fuse acoustic sounds, like piano and
stuff, with really brutal electronics, but without making the electronics
have that sort of plasticy sound, which I think they often can do in
a really bad way in my mind, and it doesn’t complement the acoustic
sounds. When I hear stuff like that it’s like tasting some really weird
combination of food, like tasting porridge with garlic in it. So I’m
trying to make stuff more homogenous, and I find samplers work really
well with that. I don’t know why, I don’t know if it’s just an aesthetic
thing, like the way they look, but when you start changing bit rates
and making stuff sound more crusty it tends to also make it sound more
natural and I really strive for that I guess, stuff that sounds a bit
damaged and gnarly.
It almost sounds like you’re converting sounds
into images, and earlier you mentioned converting music into numbers
when listening to music; is that very much how you think of things?
Err, yeah, that’s how the technical side of my head works I reckon.
Not such numbers - quite often it’s good to come up with analogies for
things, it’s good – I find it amusing. |
Where do you think
electronic music can go once you have the tools to create every sound
that there is possible to create, can electronic music ever express
itself with genuine creativity?
I think it is, totally – totally possible. I just wish there was a
bit more quality control in terms of the texture of things. Certain
things could sound a bit sharper. I’m constantly struggling myself
with this. I’m a bit of a perfectionist regarding the texture of sounds
– and that’s why my third album took so long, because there was just
about 30 different mixes of each track, and just giving it the appropriate
warmth and loudness. I don’t really settle for the easy option with
sounds I think.
Does that make it difficult to know when to
stop fiddling with a track and put it to bed? Not really, because
then I tend to wait and work on something else, and then it becomes
clear of its own accord. I’ve got much better at knowing when to just
leave something alone and reflect on it a bit. When I’m writing any
track I tend to be thoroughly enjoying it, and it’s only a few months
later when you listen to it that you’ve got any sort of perspective
on it. I tend to not send stuff out to people until it’s properly
finished I guess.
Have you ever thought
about turning to surround sound from a recording perspective, perhaps
as a viable new approach to how people might listen to music?
I’m not that interested in that, I’ve always been quite a fan of the
power of mono, which I guess is old-school in a way, but it comes
back to this divide – and I wouldn’t say I was solely on one side
of it, I’m kind of on the fence, although I lean much more strongly
towards the idea that you don’t need super-hi-tech music in order
to write something that’s modern – and the analogy that I tend to
come back to is the new Star Wars films, that are really bad and full
of CGI, but the old science fiction still seems much more modern purely
based on the content, the themes and the ideas.
I think 5.1 seems
like something that’s almost a bit retro in itself, this idea of surround
sound – I’d be more interested in going to some classical concert
that wasn’t pre-recorded and the performers were doing something that
was very enveloping. And also, just no-one really has 5.1, I don’t
know anyone that uses 5.1. Most of my friends just listen to music
on headphones, off the laptop or plug it into a cheap hi-fi. The more
pivotal thing that really puts me off that is that I know what, compositionally,
that is like – to be obsessed with stereo and panning, and just getting
lost in this world. That to me is pure technique, you don’t need to
be inspired to have a long hard slog at mixing stereo hi-hats or whatever,
it doesn’t involve any actual, creative impulse. I suppose it involves
polishing, finishing the job off professionally, and I just don’t
really rate that – I just know that when I’m doing stuff that I think’s
really on the money, it has nothing to do with those techniques, it’s
a lot more raw and more exciting – and I don’t want to lose sight
of that, and if that means keeping my music having a lo-fi edge to
it, I’ll just stick to that I think.
I understand your new album, Turning Dragon,
is a little different to anything you have released before. It’s like
Body Riddle gone techno isn’t it? Yeah, that’s what my mate
reckons.
Was it working as a DJ that inspired you to
create an album suitable for clubs? I haven’t really deejayed
at all, I’ve been playing live and a lot of it was written, yes, for
live shows, but it just seemed to work to have a more dance floor
bit to keep my interest up more than anything. I started writing new
stuff alongside Body Riddle, that was in that realm, but when I finished
Body Riddle I started more live stuff that isn’t on Turning Dragon,
but that is going to take longer to finish off. It’s just kind of
like an interim album between that and the next sort of stuff on from
Body Riddle. In a way it’s sort of a companion piece to body riddle
as well, just because of the artwork mainly – the font is the same
obviously, I feel that it really linked the two and I just thought
this has to be released as an album, it wouldn’t work as a series
of twelves.
I can’t make out what the image on the cover
to Turning Dragon is, looks very abstract. Yeah, I don’t want
to give to much away, but it’s a bit of kitchen equipment and some
sort of collage stuff. I literally saw that image, something my friend
did, and knew that was the album image. I was really chuffed actually
because quite often it does take quite a bit of direction and intervening.
I’m quite sort of anal about the way I present things and just knew
that it hardly needed any treating – it’s just so techno, but like
vintage. It’s not corny futuristic, but some sort of fifties vision
of techno.
Some of your videos are excellent by the way,
I loved Ted - with the insects? I didn’t have much of a hand
in that, it’s something that I wanna explore more. I just let them
get on with that one. The same with Herr Barr, that was something
that won a competition that was sent to Warp. It’s a shame really,
so far I haven’t had much intervention on the video side of things
but I will in the future.
Are you working on an album of brand new material
at present? Yeah, basically. I could release something as soon
as possible, but I want to wait a bit and just see where I lead myself.
I think I’ve got a lot of work to do, I haven’t had much time off
from gigs, but in about 3 months I’m going to have the rest of the
year off to stay in the studio.
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