319
320

/r/CombatFootage, today /r/syriancivilwar compiled footage of alleged CW attacks in Ghouta, Damascus before the mainstream media broke the story. The subreddit ended up being cited by TIME, USA Today and RT. Just wanted to show you what's possible and thank you for your support. (self.CombatFootage)

submitted ago by uptodatepronto

Dear /r/CombatFootage,

We've had a long journey; there were early days when I bordered on driving you all nuts with my incessant crossposts to /r/syriancivilwar, the day when /u/VCGS joined /r/syriancivilwar from /r/CombatFootage and became an integral part of our team and then there was today. I happened to be on my laptop at 3AM this morning as videos of the CW attack started leaking out from Damascus. Using skills I learned from Brown Moses, users here at /r/CombatFootage and my experience at /r/syriancivilwar, I compiled the information below in a centralized manner for ease of use for journalists/ analysts when the woke up in the morning.

The post went viral and caught the attention of mass media outlets, one of the first times I've heard of something like this occurring. TIME MAGAZINE, RT and USA Today all cited /r/syriancivilwar in their stories about the chemical weapons attack.

I'm posting here for a plurality of reasons. First, I'd love for more users from /r/Combatfootage to come over to /r/syriancivilwar and expand our community. Second I wanted to show you just what's possible with one man/ woman and his computer. Third I wanted to thank the /r/CombatFootage community. You made /r/syriancivilwar what it is today, you helped me with my analysis and I hope the two subs can continue to work together congenially. Thank you, once again.

I hope you appreciate the post and that it furthers your knowledge on the CW attack today.

Best regards,

/u/uptodatepronto

WARNING - THESE VIDEOS ARE EXCEPTIONALLY GRAPHIC; SOME ARE OF CHILDREN DYING; WATCH WITH EXTREME CAUTION

BACKGROUND

Starting at around 4AM Syrian time, a stream of videos began to emerge from Zamallaka and on Al Zainia area in Ein Turma, the videos claimed to show a chemical weapons attack by Assad's forces. In the past, these reports have often been highly exaggerated/ poorly evidenced and I've leaned towards believing them to be inaccurate/ fake; however, these videos of the hospitals after the attacks seem different to me: the symptoms of the patients, blue lips, foaming, convulsions, trouble breathing; the victims are also not responding to stimuli - children having water poured on them aren't reacting; lastly, eyes are fluttering and look dazed, detached. As I said, this attack is highly unconfirmed and only being reported by activists, as of now. We shall have to wait and see, until then I will update with any information as it emerges.

Activists are claiming that the SAA coordinated chemical weapons attacks with their shelling during an offensive to in Eastern Ghouta, near Jobar. Form YallaSouria: 'Activists also report the lack of Atropine that is usually used to treat civilians during chemical attacks by the regime; oxygen tanks are not available too. Medics are only using vinegar to the mouth and nose and are washing the bodies of the victims by water.'

Maps of attack sites

http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=33.529805&lon=36.336937&z=13&m=b&tag=516

http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=33.530592&lon=36.340542&z=14&m=b&tag=516

KEY VIDEOS

LIVE STREAM FROM ALLEGED ATTACK

Video claiming to show CW missile being launched

Doctor speaking from checkpoint in East Ghouta

Statement from medic

Pinpoint pupils - symptom of Sarin attack

Pic claiming to show rocket used in attack

News

NYTIMES - "Chemical weapons experts said the symptoms depicted in the video were inconsistent with the use of a conventional chemical weapon, like sarin or mustard gas." "Gwyn Winfield, editor of CBRNe World, a professional journal that covers nonconventional weapons, said the images suggested that either a large amount of a crowd control agent like tear gas was used a in a confined space or a weakened form of a more powerful chemical agent was used."

Live Update from Ayyam

AlArabiya claims 500 dead

LCCC claims 482 dead

REUTERS INDIA - FLASH: Syrian activists and medical source say 213 people killed in nerve gas attack by Assad's forces on eastern Ghouta region of Damascus

Al Arabiya - Syrian activists: 500 killed in chemical attack on Eastern Ghouta

Videos

Video of outside hospital

Video from outside hospital walking in

Men lying allegedly suffocated

Boy foaming at the mouth

Man convulsing on ground in hospital

Boy and girl with blue lips and nose bleed

Video of individuals convulsing on the ground

Child shivering

Video of nude children dead

Video of girl with breathing tube in her mouth

More children lying around hospital

Video of baby boy dying

Boy shivering in hospital

Two boys, looking v. dead

Row of bodies

Another video of men o the ground ina hospital - Domq hospital

Video inside hospital

Eleven dead children under blankets

Video of early panic inside hospital

Child struggling to breathe

Video: Inside hospital

Children's bodies being wrapped in the early morning

Man holding dead child over other bodies of dead children

Little girl wakes up after; repeatedly says 'i'm alive, i'm alive, i'm alive'

Video with a body turned purple

Boy with catheter in throat

Two dead boys and a man

30+ bodies including women and children

Video of victims arriving at hospital

Video of boy being treated with oxygen

Little boy raises finger to say prayer of faith as he dies

Around 35 bodies prepared for burial

Pictures

Photo of child with blue lips; eyes rolled to back of head

Photo: Girl suffocating

Four children babies, one in diapers and two men, dead

Photo: girl being assisted

Photo of six men receiving treatment

Photo of six men, semi-clad, sprawled on floor

Photo of men on ground

Images

Man holding up dead baby

Tweets

Shakeeb al-Jibri

YallaSouria claims 200 injured from inhalation

Eman claims 30 dead, 100 injured

LCC claiming 280 dead

ALL POLITICAL/ COMBATIVE COMMENTS WILL BE REMOVED; THIS IS TO COMPILE EVIDENCE, NOT TO PUSH YOUR AGENDA

all 78 comments
sorted by:
best
best
top
new
hot
controversial
old

[–]jspeights 17 points18 points ago

Question:

Why would Syria launch such a massive scale chemical attack while the United Nations security console inspectors are in Syria right now investigating the use of chemical weapons?

[–]uptodatepronto[S] 4 points5 points ago

I can't answer why, nor do I want to put blame on a side until culpability has been determined, if it ever will.

But I would like to talk about doubt. First there is already considerable doubt surrounding the event due to the disaffection that's recently come about with the West and the opposition. 18 months ago, this could have been the moment, now there's a lot more hesitancy due to a distrust of the opposition. Second the UN investigators are on a RIGID schedule; they're visiting three sides that took months to arrange. I find it highly unlikely that the UN will be able to pressure Assad to change their schedule. However a reported asked yesterday that if Assad refused the UN access to Ghouta whether that would constitute crossing the redline, the WH gave a BS answer of course. We'll have to wait and see.

[–]Drunken_Reactionary 0 points1 point ago

Because they didn't; the rebels already been caught using chemical weapons to stage false flags.

[–]jspeights 4 points5 points ago

Thats a bold statement

[–]PyotrPan 2 points3 points ago

Certainly is, but chemical weapons are used in trench warfare and in mass killings (such as in Iraq versus Kurdish popluations), the use here doesn't make sense: the SAA have the momentum, the opposition is falling apart from military losses and infighting, the command elements for the government of Syria know that if chemical weapons are used it will press the international community to react and they could risk losing support from Russia. It simply doesn't make sense, and while this is completely unfounded, I wouldn't be surprised to learn later on down the road that this was a desperation move from the crumbling armed opposition to force the international community to intervene and give them military advantages they currently don't have.

[–]Bulwarkman 1 point2 points ago

I agree with you. The longer this conflict goes on the more I hope asad can hang in there. I think if the government falls the real atrocities will begin.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]gmz_88 3 points4 points ago

I'm not too sure this is the case. Your line of reasoning makes sense and we will just have to wait and see an official investigation. but I think you are overestimating the capability of the FSA. And honestly you can't just shout ISRAEL DID IT! without some dam evidence. If you remember correctly the Levon Affair ended very badly for Israel, why would they repeat their mistakes?

I don't think it is far fetched to think that Assad ordered this strike. I'm sure he feels invincible and untouchable by the west including the UN this chemical attack was a way to show his troops and everybody under his command that he is not afraid of the UN and that Syria is under his complete control. Also he knows Russia and China will do everything possible to block a UN investigation. Assad is essentially calling their bluff.

[–]RobinBanks 1 point2 points ago

Also he knows Russia and China will do everything possible to block a UN investigation.

Seems he was mistaken if he "knew" that.

http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-attack-cooperation-841/

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]gmz_88 5 points6 points ago

This has Israel and CIA written all over it. If you can't accept that, you're either clinically insane or you have ulterior motives.

I accept that you THINK this has Israel and CIA written all over it. As usual you fail to give any rational explanation or evidence. You are driven by your faith, to a point that it is clouding your world view. Because you base your world views on your belief that every single event is orchestrated perfectly by a CIA/Israeli mix of super humans.

I hate calling people names when we are having a discussion, but you cast the first stone calling me insane or JIDF.

Ironically you are doing the work of the JIDF by being so crazy. People read your comments and think: "Wow, it really is retarded to think that Israel secretly runs the world". You are the one who is insane, in fact you are so out of touch with reality you must have your head up a mythical creature's ass.

Maybe you should try reading less of those websites with the black background and the lime green font?

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]gmz_88 1 point2 points ago

I am not a policy maker in the US. Personally I don't want another war we have no reason to take part of. Actually I've yet to meet an American that thinks we should intervene in Syria. So I don't know who you are talking about when you say:

You just can't wait to drag the US into another war can you?

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]gmz_88 0 points1 point ago

You've met israelis? And they didn't eat your soul? Wow, you were lucky they didn't do a false flag OP on you. I'm glad you lived to tell the tale.

Maybe with all your connections in Israel you could ask them to stop trying to resurrect the devil an enslave humanity. or are you from JIDL? I can't tell because I am incapable of abstract thought.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]sailornasheed -1 points0 points ago

I think he's getting his news from a place where "sage" is a verb and "moot" is a noun.

[–]nesckthe44 2 points3 points ago

Anyone who believes the Israelis gassed Damascus is beneath retarded and should not post any more comments until they've gone for a walk outside or something.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]nesckthe44 -1 points0 points ago

What does Assad gassing his own people have to do with the Israelis accidentally dropping a bomb on an American ship?

Are you trolling me right now or are you an idiot?

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]nesckthe44 -3 points-2 points ago

Can you name any Israeli false-flag attacks? Oh btw, FACTS are not the same things as PRESUMPTIONS. Let me give you an example. The Israelis deliberately attack an allied vessel for no reason? PRESUMPTION.

The Israelis accidentally bomb an allied vessel? FACT. Difference? Sources. From Wikipedia:

Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship. Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity,[2] though others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[6]

And then of course there's the old "if you don't agree with me JIDF." I don't know if you haven't noticed but you're disagreeing with me. Therefore, you are JIDF. How much are they paying you?

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]nesckthe44 -3 points-2 points ago

Yeah, I'm sure Israel bombed an allied vessel for fun just because, you know, those Jews, conspiracies and shit Israhell bad. Gee, I've never seen that kind reasoning before. Definately not from any anti-semites, sorry, excuse me, I meant "anti-Zionists."

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]Stonna -5 points-4 points ago

cause they're losing would be a reason or as a means to an end.

[–]toxicomano 1 point2 points ago

Who do you think is losing this war?

[–]Stonna 1 point2 points ago

I haven't the slightest clue

[–]toxicomano 1 point2 points ago

Well for the information I've been reading, and the general consensus on other forums, it seems like the SAA has the momentum and is on the offensive. I'm not saying they (the SAA) did or didn't use chemical weapons, but in the current situation it seems slightly questionable that they would use them. Again, I am not saying they didn't, it just seems a little more suspect given the current state of the war. I'm really curious to see how this all unfolds as it really is a dramatic event in the Syrian civil war.

[–]ScienceGaveMeAHadron 10 points11 points ago

I am honestly confused by this, do you think Assad is stupid enough to use chemical weapons even though he has the initiative and is pushing the rebels back into Damascus where they will probably meet their end.

The Syrian army has tactical superiority with their armor, artillery, air-power and support of the Hezbollah. While the rebels have gear supplied they lack training and the ability to use it so they are stuck up shit creek without a paddle. What the rebels really want is more input from the US, Euro or Saudi to give them training at the least or military intervention at best.

The only ideas I could see are an interested third-party setting up a gas attack, a Syrian army battalion getting overzealous of hashish and using sarin unauthorized or the rebels themselves setting the gas off to raise support for them.

People are claiming that Assad disallowing the UN officials going into the area is proof of it being the Syrian Army doing the attack, but the truth is Assad himself might not know and it's entirely possible that they could have been set up, in either of those scenarios they would not want to let the UN in. There's also the chance that letting UN inspectors into a war zone would hamper the SAA's momentum and prevent them bombarding the FSA.

Some people are stating it's a double-bluff, that Assad called the UN inspectors over to give himself an alibi but it wouldn't make sense for the Syrians to bring Russia into a diplomatic shitstorm when they are getting so much fancy export gear from them.

Overall this seems extremely silly as an event.

[–]uptodatepronto[S] 4 points5 points ago

Addressing your third paragraph I think those are reasonable theories. To me there are five possible causes:

  1. SAA sanctioned attack.
  2. Rebel sanctioned false flag.
  3. Rogue SAA action.
  4. Rogue rebel action.
  5. Accident - SAA copter shot down carrying weapons, explosive hits stockpile.

[–]ScienceGaveMeAHadron 7 points8 points ago

Personally Rebel sanctioned, Rogue SAA or accident are the only ones that makes sense. Although I may be wrong, I don't know that much about Assad, maybe he really is that bloodthirsty but I'm sure he likes money and power and he must know that giving the USA an excuse to fully sort their proxy war out and give Russia the middle finger and steal their last real lovechild in the Middle East is good enough motivation to not use gas or give excuses to the Euro/US side.

Assad must have Putin breathing down his neck, given the fancy S-300 AA systems they've been promised and all the work the Russian army is doing with the SAA.

We do know how disorganized the SAA can be, it's also very possible that a rogue division/unit fired gas off without permission, however there are plenty of people with a vested interest on the Rebels side who would be more than capable of providing the means to detonate gas or produce a gas attack on such a scale.

1200 lives is not of the scale of previous gas attacks by angry dictators, if he was going to do this in plain view of the UN inspectors he invited I would personally expect him to go all out and kill 10,20 thousand people just like Saddam did with the Kurds.

Editing just to say, I don't agree with either side. They are both bad and have bad elements. At this point the war has done more damage to Syria than even the worst governance could do under either Assad or the Rebels. Even if we help the rebels its highly likely to turn into another rogue country run by extremists and function as a terrorist breeding ground filled with MANPADS and AT weapons given by Saudi and other supporters and become a nightmare.

If Assad wins the country will be just as bad off, the people suffering are the civillians who want to live in peace. However I can't stand the idea of a gas attack being used to gain leverage in the global diplomatic arena

[–]PyotrPan 0 points1 point ago

You also have news reporters from ANNA who were in the front lines at this operation and they reported on never seeing any protective clothing issued for the SAA what so ever. And no injuries related to chemical warfare being observed either. The last thing you want to do is gas your own army when the wind shifts because you didn't issue protective equipment. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to learn later on that this attack was perpetrated by the opposition to force the international community's hand in intervening.

[–]nesckthe44 0 points1 point ago

The other possibility that has been mentioned is that these were not the victims of nerve gas but of a crowd-control measure like tear gas that was used in a crowded enclosed space. In which case that would very much be in accordance with the MO of the SAA and their homies.

[–]toxicomano 1 point2 points ago

While the rebels have gear supplied they lack training and the ability to use it so they are stuck up shit creek without a paddle.

I think they are stuck up shit creek with a lot of paddles... they just don't know how to use them effectively.

[–]gmz_88 46 points47 points ago

As of now, there are 4 main comments to this very well made post.The top comment is asking if OP is from the Jewish Internet Defense Force.

I think we can do better than that. I want to see some responses from people who have reviewed the footage and can provide some insight. The reason I subscribe to this sub if for the comments from people with a military background or extensive military knowledge. If we are going to get all /r/conspiracy in here, intellectually, we might as well move along.

[–]GreyMatter22 6 points7 points ago

Calling someone a Jew or a Zionist just because someone doesn't suit my view is the oldest trick in the book, we are all better than that.

/u/uptodatepronto, is pretty neutral I'd say, I have really disagreed with some of his posts, and agreed with a lot, but I admire him, his journalism alone seems to be better than the CNN's coverage on this strategically important conflict.

[–]Dannybaker 8 points9 points ago

I think you've come to the wrong sub mate.. 80% of the time here it's all Islam hating and racist jokes

[–]thatfookinschmuckDETH 3 points4 points ago

No it is not and when someone does do that I delete the comments...

[–]Dannybaker 0 points1 point ago

Yeah after you implement the stricter banning policy and no Allahu Ackbar joke rule, but the fact that you had to make that a rule is enough.

[–]thatfookinschmuckDETH 0 points1 point ago

This subreddit is open to everybody. The policies you speak of only help the sub and make it more enjoyable.

[–]DougBolivar 0 points1 point ago

I agree.

I think we have to wait for tomorrow's UN sec council meeting. And to know if the UN chem guys in Syria are going to the sites. And what will they find. And there might be more videos tomorrow. There should be a very thorough analysis of them.

[–]dethb0y 12 points13 points ago

One of the most extensive posts dealing with a single attack i have ever seen. Whatever happened - it's got to be one of the most well documented events in the history of the conflict.

[–]BeyondMyWallsofSleep 9 points10 points ago

This whole post is just heartbreaking. It's one thing to see militants dead and dying, and a whole other to see innocent children dying for something they could never understand.

The whole Syrian civil war is a mess. Both sides are corrupt, both sides are full of individuals thinking they're doing the right thing. It's just sad. Sad that anyone dies for ideological, religious, or political differences.

[–]nirvanachicks 1 point2 points ago

Fuck this is so horrible. Whoever did this is an animal...

[–]TheGuineaPig21 1 point2 points ago

In terms of other precedents for news being broken like this, most westerners learned of the recent meteor impact in Chelyabinsk, Russia, via Washington Capitals fan blog Russian Machine Never Breaks. Some information how this happened is here.

Certainly I would expect news to be broken like this more and more in the future. Thanks for your hard work in identifying and compiling primary sources.

[–]BlackSquirrel 1 point2 points ago

...aaaand hijacked. I'm done. Unsubscribe.

[–]thatfookinschmuckDETH 0 points1 point ago

deuces

[–]uptodatepronto[S] -2 points-1 points ago

??

[–]RebelTactics[M] 0 points1 point ago

I'm proud of you guys.

[–]uptodatepronto[S] 0 points1 point ago

thanks RT. Couldn't have done it without your support

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]KaidenUmara 5 points6 points ago

"activists are claiming" is a much more concise and honest report than

"un-named sources are reporting"

[–]nesckthe44 1 point2 points ago

And even better than "some guy on reddit said 'JIDF.'"

[–]KaidenUmara 0 points1 point ago

"my god you have actually seen cannibalism?"

"no we're just reporting it"

[–]uptodatepronto[S] 15 points16 points ago

no it's a collection of primary evidence.