The Truth About the G12 Movement

After much consideration, I have made the decision to publish this article. The internet seems to be inundated with websites and blogs regarding the G12 movement, some containing truth while others contain myths and a whole lot of speculation. I personally have been involved with two churches with ties to G12. One church attempted to implement the concepts and, while it maintains some of the programs, it never became part of the G12 Network. The other church follows the strategies and has been quite successful in achieving growth. I believe that I can clear up some misconceptions and bring a balanced view of what G12 is and is not. Disclaimer: I am not presently attending a G12 church. However, that does not mean that I cannot be objective.

To begin, we really need to come to terms with the fact that G12 is nothing more than a strategy for church growth. I will not get into whether I believe Pastor Cesar Castellanos did or did not receive a vision from God as he has related which gave birth to the G12 movement. That really has no bearing on what goes on in the individual churches which have implemented the strategy. So, what is the strategy?: winning souls for Christ, consolidating them (caring for and nurturing them after their confession of faith), discipleship (getting new converts into God’s Word and teaching them basic Christian doctrine) and sending them out (based on the Great Commission, Matthew 28:18-20). Sounds great so far, right? The truth is that this is the role of the church. G12 groups are kept to a maximum of 12 people which meet once per week, generally in homes, and of course, there is a corporate worship service on the weekend.

Encounters

In my opinion what really sets the strategy apart from others is the Encounter weekends that are part of the consolidation process. These weekends are what bring much controversy to the strategy.  I personally attended an Encounter weekend in 2003 and it changed my life. I consider that 3 day event in my life the most important event in my life; the event that most impacted my life and transformed my faith. I truly encountered God and it changed everything about me.

The controversy comes in how the different churches implement the encounters. I have read the horror stories. Clearly that was not my experience. However, I will say that I have seen a change in how encounters were done when I first went and began serving in the encounters and how they are done presently. Quite frankly, the change caused me to walk away from serving in the encounters at the church I previously attended. Originally it was about encountering God in a very personal way. Each of us, because of our different life experiences and our different stages in our walk will have a different experience. We each react very differently and have different ways of showing what we experience emotionally. Personally, I did not show any emotion when I attended my encounter. Anyone there would have thought I was not receiving any benefit from the weekend. However, God did an amazing work in my life.

So what changed? What I have personally witnessed from serving in the encounters is that if the women are not reacting emotionally (crying and screaming for the most part), that person is not allowing the Holy Spirit to work in them. Seriously, I have been there and heard the comments. Those running the encounters will go to any lengths to create emotionalism. The most disturbing thing I experienced is an extremely graphic abortion video that is shown that cause some women to experience a traumatic breakdown. When I questioned the need for showing this video, I was told that it assisted the women who have had an abortion to experience “healing and forgiveness.” I have witnessed some women become completely hysterical and was told this is how they receive “deliverance.”  Really? Imagine, after being told you have been forgiven of your sins, you are confronted with horrifying video of the very sin you committed. I will not pretend to be an expert in mental health, but I believe this type of experience causes regression rather than regeneration.

Another matter which caused me great concern is the apparent “excitement” that certain persons serving in the encounters expressed when there was a demonic manifestation. We are there to experience God’s presence through His Spirit, not demons. I have a question that no one seems to want to answer: Why is it that demons feel free to manifest themselves to such an extreme at these events? And when they do manifest themselves, should “excitement” be our first response?  I don’t have the answer to my first question, but if someone does, I would welcome your response.

Some of the doctrine taught, such as “generational curses,” coupled with the above was more than enough for me to walk away, actually run away from this ministry. Now, let’s be clear, this does not happen in every church. Again, I have served in encounter weekends in two different churches. This was only experienced in one church and I am sure it is an exception.

Leadership

Leadership training, as we all know, is important in any organization, especially in the church.  G12 purports to provide leadership training through its School of Leadership. And while many truly become ready through the process to lead a small group, many others do not. So, you send someone to an encounter, get them through the post-encounter classes, push them through the school of leadership, send them to a re-encounter and off they go to open their own small group. You would think this was enough, but it is not. The truth is that while all have the potential to become leaders/mentors, not all do. Herein lays the problem: the object is multiplication and the requirement is that you simply go through the process. The outcome is that those who do not have a heart for leadership, cannot get people to follow them and therefore use manipulation and control to get things done.

Look, this is not a matter of being critical. This is intended to hopefully open up some eyes, get people to dialogue because, I’ll tell you, anytime I’ve tried to bring this to anyone’s attention, I have been labeled “conflictive” and “rebellious.” The fact is that a true leader will never have to demand that people “submit” to them. People will want to follow and will be eager to help a true leader in fulfilling the leader’s vision. Manipulation and control have no place in leadership and especially in the church. I have seen two devastating things happen as a result of this: First, people who have experienced healing and restoration through the encounter process have been left worse off than they came in after being under the “leadership” of a manipulative and controlling person. Second, I have seen true leaders, persons with an incredible capacity and anointing sat down or placed out-of-service for failure to submit to the manipulation and control of others. I am telling you, if you even once question what goes on, you are labeled and you can forget about serving in ministry until you are deemed “submissive.”

My Experience at the 2009 West Coast G12 Conference

Everything is usually pretty good when it is done the first time, isn’t it? I attended the very first G12 conference in Los Angeles in June 2004 and it was amazing. Later that year I would be in Miami attending the Annual Conference. And again, that was an amazing experience. I was truly blessed by the conferences, the conference speakers and the messages they brought. I’m not sure when all of that changed.

What I can tell you is that I attended this year’s conference in Anaheim and was blown away. Not by how “amazing” it was but rather by how much the focus has changed. I will say from the get go that there were a few very good conference speakers. But I was very disappointed especially by Pastor Cesar Castellanos, the founder of the G12 movement. Apparently, according to Pastor Castellanos, it is a sin to not accept his G12 Vision. I don’t make this stuff up. He specifically called people at the conference to repentance for not accepting his G12 Vision as God’s revelation of how things should be done in the church today. On Thursday evening, Pastor Castellanos provided us with a new version of the story of Abraham taking Isaac up to be sacrificed as God had instructed. According to Castellanos, Abraham was given the “revelation of the Cross.” I have to admit, the way Pastor Castellanos tells the story, there is no doubt he has a gift for fictional writing (which if you have read his books, you would agree.) On Friday evening of the conference, Pastor Rich Witmer of Tucson (who has created his own brand of controversy in his town) called for an offering: 300 people were to step to the front of the conference hall and pledge $300 each (the first pledge taken that day was a minimum of 24 people pledging $1000 each.) Pastor Cesar Castellanos was to bring us God’s Word after that second offering.  However, when Pastor Castellanos came up after the offering was taken he stated that he had noticed that only about 100 people had pledged the $300 and, as a result, unless the other 200 people came forward to make the $300 pledge, he would not be able to preach that night. To make a long story short, Pastor Castellanos did not preach because the $90,000 in pledges were not made ($300 x 300 people = $90,000).

Okay, before anyone starts telling me about the cost of putting on an event like this, I understand it is costly and the problem is not about taking up an offering. The problem stems from a man of God refusing to teach God’s Word because the offering did not please him. Am I really the only one that perceives “wrong motives” here?

I did come back the third day. I wanted to make sure I wasn’t being close minded, conflictive and argumentative. I was willing to give it one more shot. I had already been praying for months for God to open up my understanding if in fact it was me who was wrongly perceiving the G12 movement.

So Saturday, the last day of the conference, during a break I stepped over to Starbucks for a “wake-up” shot of java. Behind me poured in the whole bunch of youth from our church. I sat down with them and asked the question, “What have you learned these last few days?” One young man said very matter-of-factly, “If you don’t have your 12 [disciples], you don’t count!” Well, that is in fact what one of the pastors stated in his conference. If you are discipling/mentoring anything less than 12 people, “you don’t count.” I heard him say it and so did everyone else in the conference hall. I don’t count! I could volunteer 4-6 hours per week of my time to the work of the ministry using the talents God has given me, but I don’t count. I could minister to people and the Holy Spirit will bring them to confessing their faith in Jesus, but as far as G12 is concerned, I don’t count. Okay, am I the only one concerned about the message here?

Conclusion

I thank God for one thing especially: that when I met Christ, I was taught the pure Word of God. I may not have been very productive in the beginning, but I received the Truth which I have carried in my heart and which gave me the strength to eventually walk away from a church full of people I truly cared about, and especially a Pastor who has an incredible heart and love for the Lord. G12 is supposed to be a strategy for church growth and discipleship and I honestly believe it is a good strategy. So the problem is not in the strategy but rather some of the people behind it. No doubt I will lose some “friends” over this article. And those of you who read my articles on Facebook may notice my “friends” count go down considerably, but I’m okay with that. That would mean that the article was being read. I leave the rest up to the Holy Spirit.

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28 Responses to The Truth About the G12 Movement

  1. Myrna Tlavera says:

    Annette,
    Thank you for steping out boldly and sharing your opinion on the G12 movement. Many people wouldnt. Its sad to see how some take Gods word and instructions and change it to adapt to their own opinions and motives.
    I pray that the hearts of those will change.
    Blessings,
    Myrna

  2. Andres Espino Dennison says:

    I do not belong to any G12 movement but I ran into your Blog while searching for more information about the G12 movement and that of Doctor Cho.

    Honestly, some of the criticisms you mention are also common criticisms against many Pentecostal denominations as well, and not just activities of G12 Encounters.Some of these criticisms have been made against Oral Roberts, Kathryn Kullman and currently against Benny Hinn

    As a 3rd generation pentecostal and having grown up in pentecostal churches, I can say I have seen healing services and deliverance services which centered on the casting out of manifested demons as well as healing the sick. Prayer lines, healing and deliverance took place in almost every service after the preaching. The use of the gifts of the spirit were encouraged to be practiced by all spirit filled believers and they used to lay hands on and pray for one another following services and many experienced healing and deliverance through it.

    Pentecostal services tend to generally be demonstrative and loud and this is one major complaint that critics have of pentecostalism. Nevertheless, in general these believers do press on into a deep walk with God as a result of their pentecostal experience.

    Most Pentecostals or Charasmatics believe the modern church has become luke-warm and that all the aspects of the first century church belong in every meeting, and that God confirms his preaching with signs that follow the believers. This return to 1st century preaching is often referred to as Full Gospel where we believe all these signs shall follow every believer 1 Preaching, 2 Baptism, 3 Casting out demons, 4 protection from harm, 5 healing the sick. Number 4 has the added implication of snakes referring to demons, that a believer can command them out without harm coming to themselves.

    Mark 16:15-18

    15He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
    16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
    17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
    18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.

    Clearly, some people opposed to the Charasmatic movement or Pentecostalism will agree with your Blog post, while many in the Full Gospel movement probably will not.

    Prayers and regards,
    Andrew

  3. Andres,

    Thank you for your comment. I do believe in the gifts of the Spirit and have not only experienced deliverance personally, but have been a part of praying for deliverance for others and praying for healing and have witnessed miraculous healing (on the spot), and have received and moved in the gifts of the Spirit. I have no issues with the Full Gospel movement. I believe that if you read the article carefully, you will see that my issue is not with charismatic or pentecostal churches and their belief systems. Rather, I have specifically stated that the problem is some of the people behind what is being done. The problem is not deliverance, healing, etc., it is some of the people who working outside of the Holy Spirit and through their own strength, must resort to manipulation and control.

  4. Confused says:

    I am really interested in talking to you further. Someone objective outside of my situation. Can I email you or call you sometime? I really have alot of questions that I cant seem to get answered.

    Thanks

  5. Acused says:

    Hi, thanks for letting us in this vision that is highly controversial across the christian community.

    I wanted to know what you think of Cash Luna in Guatemala. Is he part of this G12 that you talked about, or is his ministry different than this one? Does he participate in these events?

  6. Acused,

    I do not have any information regarding Cash Luna only that he has in the past participated in one event or another. When we first started in G12 in 2003, the books used for the school of leadership were from Cash Lunas church in Guatemala. We did not have Castellanos books at first. I do recall the books from Guatemala related much more to the Bible than Castellanos books do. Mr. Luna, unfortunately, has had his own brand of controversy. I believe you can find some of his teachings on youtube.com

    Blessings.

  7. Randy says:

    I never heard of G12 until a link led me to this article.

    One of the perils of leadership is the pride that comes with success that disables one from seeing their shortcomings. This has an impact on both sides of the pulpit.

    The leader becomes so enamored by his success that he forgets that he is not infallible and reacts badly when his flaws (or the flaws of the thing that made him popular) are exposed.

    The followers also become enamored by the leaders success (and their identification with him) and react badly when it becomes apparent that he is not infallible.

    So, the leader is driven by his own success to prop up the illusion that he not subject to error, and the followers are driven to sustain the same illusion so that they will not lose face by being shown guilty of having been deceived.

  8. Mike Burgner says:

    I agree with what you are saying as a person who knows and has experienced G-12 firsthand. I do not believe everyone is called to be a leader, yet everyone is called to be fruitful, multiply, and make disciples. A church cannot mass produce leaders like clones.

    As far as encounters go, I believe in them whole-heartedly. However, Ive also seen them abused by personal agendas and those who want to manipulate and control. An encounter is about God and what He and His Spirit does. God doesnt need our help. Ive led many encounters, but only experienced a demon manifestation at 2, and I didnt rejoice. We prayed and ministered deliverance to the person bound and moved on.

    Theres a lot of good in G-12 but it is not the Gospel. I think the most dangerous thing a church can do is make cell groups permanent. We should make them semester-based and shuffle things around. To say every believer HAS to get 12 followers is not Scriptural. Yes, every believer is destined to reproduce disciples, but the number is not set in concrete. The important thing is that were not spiritually baren and have spiritural children. The number is up to God.. God gives the increase and The Lord added to thier number those who were being saved.

  9. Randy and Mike,

    Thank you both for your comments. You are both right on target.

  10. Andre says:

    I have a rule of thumb, there is nothing new to be unveiled in Christianity. The revelations were made long ago. If you see someone in the church talking about new doctrines, new revelations, new churches. there is something very wrong.

    Does someone really think that after 2000 years of Christianity a new prophet will rise and lead the faithful to the true church, true christianity? This is not Biblical, so why people listen to them?

    Does someone really think that a pastor/father/whatever now-a-days will unveil some secret that was missed by Paul, Agostine, Luther, Calvin, Wycliff and all other leaders and masters that studied and discussed the Bible in the last 2000 years?

    This is the root of the mistake. Now the churches are always trying to discover new truths. The truth is only one, the rest are lies. Some lies are more convincing. As any good lie, G12 has a root of truth but this does not makes G12 a truth.

    G12 is just another fruit from the Pentecostalism. Actually Pentecostalism is very good in producing bad fruits. Another profitable fruit from Pentecostalism is the Prosperity Theology.

    After some years of G12 in Brazil I can say without hesitaion that G12 made more harm than good to Christianity. Again, it is just another movement full of oportunists looking for power and money.

    And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2 Peter 2:3

  11. David says:

    Andre, were you part of the G12 movement in Brazil under Rene Terra Nova? I am in this church now in the state of Rio de Janiero, but as one could assume (i am doing research), i too have many questions and worries about this Structure/Movement. I would appreciate if you could contact me. davidabrown@live.com

    Thanks, David

  12. Jim,

    Thanks for providing the comprehensive list of resources (and for including this article).

    [M]y people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
    Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests. . . Hosea 4:6

    I would encourage everyone to read the book of Hosea, especially Ch. 4. You will find so many similarities between Israel in the Old testament and what is happening in in our culture today. There are many lessons to be learned from the obstinance of Israel and the resulting judgment that came upon them.

    Blessings,

    Annette

  13. Shushuana says:

    Annette I am currently attending pastor Rich Witmers G12 church which is in Yuma Az and I see what you are talking about. As in every church you have those who have a heart to bring the love of God to those who have never known Him and those who are in it for either Paycheck or the fame and attention. My husband and I have been going to Generations for 3 years now and we love the church and those in it.

    I grew up going to a Jehovah witness church til I was 8 when they kicked my mother out of the church for smoking, I remember being in meetings where my mother left crying. For years me and my husband went to churches in Oakland ca area one after the other where we were asked that when we came back if we could dress more appropriatly. We went to a penticosal church for a while until they asked my husband to cut his hair and for me to not wear makeup and pants.

    Yes like every church the G12 Vision does have those who become involved and corrupt the purpose of the vision. I hve seen people leave the church over stupid reasons, like they were still doing drugs and the cell leader refused to move them into their 12. Ive known other people leave a church here in town and start to go to a different one because they percieved the pastor didnt like them. Another person left another popular church here in town because that church told them to stop doing band gigs outside of church or they would have to leave.

    Anything to bring people closer to God is great and unfortunatly the devil will do all he can to prevent that. Most of todays churches are full of weekenders, monthly guilt trippers or holiday goers. My husband and I love our church becase there is structure that helps us come closer to God which we never got in the ten years of church hunting. My encounter experiance was not as spectacular as yours, but it helped me open my heart more so God could work a positive change in me. Yes some people throw the word rebellious around like confette. Always remember that what ever you do or dont do is a choice. If what your leader is suing is not biblically sound its not from God.
    Check out Rich Witmers blog, yes he does speak his mind without fear, which I find refreshing.
    Also check out our services at world on fire .com
    they r live Saturday 6pm westcoast and Sunday 10am. If anything the sermons are great!!!

    How far in School of Leaders did you get btw?

  14. Mo says:

    Hi, well first off I want to say that I am a Christian. I have been walking with the Lord for many years now. I do not attend a G12 church, nor do I feel any inclination to, however I was at that event in the Anaheim convention center in 2009. I attended for other reasons, I had to work at the event. I can vouch for everything you said that happened at the event. What bugs me the most is that all the preachers are very dogmatic about sticking to the whole 12 thing and even come off as saying if youre not part of the 12 thing then you are not going to be blessed by God. Also the whole offering thing is something I have seen before. I use to attend a hyper-Pentecostal church and they would do that. I dont like that at all. Thata why people in the world see the church and only see the money hungry preachers. I am a believer in the practicality of the gospel which many seem to toss aside and only focus on the spiritual aspect of the gospel. But anyways thats just my little rant.

  15. Sanctified says:

    Acts 5:35-39

    35 Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men.

    36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing.

    37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered.

    38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.

    39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

    Also try to look it up from verses 17-39.

  16. Joy says:

    Good day,

    Im a Christian attending a G12 church. I think that what matters the most is that a person establishes a strong and healthy relationship with the Lord. The G12 vision gives people the opportunity to experience Encounters and leadership trainings for the purpose of their own personal growth in Christ. And its very true that some people, even pastors, make mistakes and thats because were not perfect as human beings. I believe that everyone, especially pastors, should be really connected with the Lord and in daily communication with Him.

    As a member of our G12 churches, I admire my pastors. Everything we have we know is from the Lord and still belongs to Him. I am a cell group leader and our pastors remind us again and again that the people in church do not belong to us but to God. We are just good stewards of the people that God placed in our care. As for the G12 system, its not perfect. If it is, then we wouldnt need God any more. Right now, God reveals new things to many churches, new paths and new strategies to make. No church or system is perfect. The people in church, not just the pastors but every member of the congregation, do their best to make the system work. Its a collective effort, a teamwork with the Holy Spirit. And us? we are not perfect, we just need to be the best we that we can be, through the guidance of the Lord and through our willingness and love to serve Him.

    Annette,
    you are at the receiving end of the preachings and ministering. there will always be something to say against a system, there will always be problems with it but im emploring and asking you, what did you do to fix the problem? when I first came to G12, i hated it. I saw so many errors in the system, then I asked the Lord for a Word. Is this really the place for me? and God said yes. Over the years, I saw the system improved and I was just glad that I stayed and Im one of the people that helped the church improve in the process.
    Remember:
    Ephesians 6: 12
    For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.

    My church is not perfect. The pastors are not perfect. I am not perfect. But I am not giving up. If there is something wrong, point it out and help in finding the solution. Im glad Im fighting for the Lord until the very end.

    God bless to you :)

  17. To date I have been very careful about my comments. I believe that in my article I am very specific in saying that the strategies work. They have been implemented in many churches under different names (dont think that the Castellanos were the first to start small groups). Obviously, each church must modify how the encounters, school of leadership and cell groups are structured to fit its congregation. And, of course, no church is perfect. That goes without saying.

    Now, I will lose some of my gentleness. If anyone who has posted here has read the books by Cesar and Claudia Castellanos and their claims of visions and revelations and you dont see anything wrong with what they claim, then you need to start praying for discernment.

    Cesar Castellanos claims to have been given a revelation by God that mirrors Gods revelation to Abraham. If you read the 1966 book, The Master Plan of Evangelism, you will note that when Billy Graham is asked about how he would develop a plan of discipleship, Graham reveals the same plan (in the 1960s) that Castellanos claims was revealed to him by God in the 1980s. Then theres Cesars claim that God gave Abraham the Revelation of the Cross at the time he was to sacrifice his son Isaac. Cesar is doing what was is prohibited, he is adding to Gods revelation in His Word. This statement and his story of how it happened is nothing but heresy.

    Now Ill move on to Claudias incredible stories. First, in the Revelation of the Cross, there is an account of Claudias spirit being transported to the cross at the exact moment of Christs crucifixion. She claims to have experienced everything our Lord experienced on the Cross. Blasphemy!

    As if that wasnt enough, she later states that while on a visit to Israel she received a revelation that she should be baptized by a man at the river Jordan, a man who when his mother was pregnant was supposedly told that the child she was carrying would have the ministry of John the Baptist (you know, the voice of the one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him. She then states that upon finding the man, he baptizes her and as she rises from the water she sees the heavens open and the spirit of God descends upon her and she hears the voice of God saying, This is my daughter in whom I am well pleased. There is only one word for this: BLASPHEMY!

    If these are the Pastors providing a covering over your pastors and church, theres a problem (yes, if your church is paying their $1200 monthly franchise fee to G12, they are said to be under the covering of Cesar and Claudia Castellanos.) You need to understand the structure of MCI and the G12 hierarchy. Perhaps I am able to understand it better because I was involved from its inception in the United States and because the hispanic pastors who first joined G12 in SoCal and were part of Castellanos 12 here are pastors I know well.

    All you can do is pray for your church and its leaders. But how anyone can sit and listen to the heresy and the blasphemy, that I cannot understand.

    Dont be afraid to respond to this comment. I will post all comments, so long as they meet rules of decency.

  18. Mark says:

    Hi Annette,

    I agree with most of your points. I was once a member of a congregation that is a member of the G12. I just remembered when i ask the pastor if we can conduct a thorough study of the G12 movement. He refused and told me just to accept it because he had already studied it. I was even charged of something in front of my brothers just to avoid the idea i presented. I was forced to believe in the movement and to be a part of the movement. (You will be labeled as rebellious if you will not.) But then after months of observing the movement and studying the scripture, i decided not to involve in the movement anymore. Then when i was asked by the Pastor to see Him, i told Him that i dont believe that the G12 is sciptural and i dont believe that it is truly a revelation by God to Pastor Castellanos. The Pastor cant even give me a straight answer if he believes that it is truly a revelation fron God. (makes me confused as to why he decided to take a part of the movement.) What i received was I fasted for 12 days for that!. He just did not answer the question.

    I also agree with Joy that what matters most is a persons relationship to the Lord. BUT i dont agree with her next statement. I believe, a person will encounter God the moment He wants it, in His ways, in His time, and in the place He chooses. Not on a time/placed scheduled by humans, that is not even scriptural. (-Isaiah, Jacob, Paul, etc) And the leadership trainings and personal growth of a Christian is the duty of a Pastor/Christian so theres nothing new to that. You dont need the G12 to do that.

    Blessings,
    Mark

  19. james gunt says:

    Good day everyone. For me, i believe that Gods main purpose is to win souls for Him, to seek those who were lost and to go to the world and preach the gospel, for the harvest is plenty but the laborers are few.

    And that no matter what their motives may be (the persons behind or leaders of this G12 as they say), or mistakes they have done-for nobody is perfect, but the most important thing is that the gospel has been preached.

    just what Paul said in Philippians Chapter 1

    Verse 15: some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also for goodwill:

    Verse 16: The former preach Christ form selfish ambition,not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains;

    Verse 17: but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel.

    Verse 18: What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.

    Therefore for everyone of us, let us not criticize them or any person involve in G12 for we are already Christians, and our main role as a Christian is to spread out the good news of Salvation and not to criticize G12 or its leaders or any other movement that brought souls to the Lord.

    If thats their way of winning souls for Christ then be it, support it, and be happy for it, for in every soul that receives Christ as their Saviour there are thousands of angels rejoicing in heaven.

    So lets just be happy for the souls that received Christ and in whatever vessel or way that brought them to the Lord, whether its by music, arts, entertainment, cellgroup, crusades, G12 and etc.

    Praise Godregards

  20. Jo-Ann says:

    Anette,
    You are focusing on the people behind it but why should you do that, all of us are not perfect, thats why we have to fix our eyes on JESUS alone because if we look at men, we might get frustrated and disappointed.
    For your info, here in Saudi, G12 has no fee, I attended EGR (Encounter with God Retreat) last Aug. 31 to Sep 2 and I thanked the LORD for the opportunity. I was restored, healed and thats not because of pastor Cesar Castellanos but because of JESUS CHRIST and His works on the cross 2,000 years ago. We are also not told were not belong if we dont get 12 people, and Im now encourage to win souls for the glory of JESUS Christ alone. You know Anette, if we really look at people, we will really not grow, we will always be skeptical. As for us here in Saudi Arabia, only the Name of JESUS CHRIST has been lifted up, no fee, no condemnation if we dont get 12 and we are all restored, thanks be to GOD alone!

  21. kens says:

    the true religion is not about the denomination that you belong to. It is about your personal relation with God and doing what he is asking you to do. like visiting the weadow
    enter the homeless into your home and provide for orphans and needy. if you are ready to practice the true religion, please visit this website:www.greatcommissionfamilyhomeofhope.org and support the orphans in Haiti and God will take notice and reserve a place for you in heaven. May God bless you.
    kens

  22. Edwin says:

    Hi everyone, I am involved in a G12 church. I am a baptist and I have experienced some of the things that was pointed out by author. I dont also agree with what Ptr. Cesar mentioned in his talks. But my God is not Ptr. Cesar. I can use G12 in my church as long as it is in line with biblical teaching. So, I am looking up to God as my true leader but at the same time implementing G12 because I can see that our task as believers is to reach out for people for the Gospel and disciple them. I can implement G12 and not teaching them about prosperity gospel. I can implement G12 without forcing my people to speak in tongues but ask them to use in way that can edify their bros and sis.
    I believe that all of us are called to lead. I look at it in the area of leading people (3 or 12) to Christ and discipling them. Looking at Matt 28 going and teaching is more of leading and not just giving a bible or gospel tract.
    God bless you.

  23. Jim says:

    Testimony referencing experiences at a G12 church. Northwest Community Church, Orlando.

    http://www.northwestcult.com/

  24. Stephen says:

    Hi everyone.
    I ran across this blog post when searching for information on G12. I dont have the time right now to go into all of my past but I can shortly say that Anette, you are spot on, especially in your last comment.
    I (together with wife and kids) left a G12-church in Europe for about a year ago. I was one of the leaders in that church for many years. Lead encounters, taught at school of leaders. I was a real advocate for the G12-vision ever since our church started with G12 in 2003/2004. Even though I took the G12 in whole, I questioned some parts for my self, from the start. For example, the teaching of the sin of Achan (Joshua ch 7), the dogmatic teaching of 12. But the pastors of that church, together with the people from MCI Bogota, told us not to question the vision. So I put aside my questions. But they kept popping up through the years.
    It wasnt til the summer of 2010 when me and my wife really started to dig into Cesars books and the teaching of G12 and testing it with the Word of God. It was a long process til we came to the conclusion that we had to leave. And what a freedom we felt when we did. You have to see what kind of fruit G12 produces (and this goes for ALL churches that take the G12-vision the way Cesar wants you to) it does not produce the good fruits of the Spirit!

    I have so many testimonies of things that our pastors has said through these years, of what Cesar and his wife has said, what Rich Witmer has said on conferences.

    Sure, all things arent bad. But, as you said Anette, if you cant see the whats wrong with G12, you really need to pray for discernment!

    Ill try to pop back here and continue to share my thoughts on G12. Otherwise, if anyone has any questions, dont hesitate to send me an e-mail:
    stefan.us@hotmail.co.uk

    Blessings!
    Stephen

  25. Rebecca says:

    Hi everyone! Im from Indonesia. Im sad to hear (or read) the problem of what we, as the body of Christ, is facing today. Sure I know the day is getting more evil, but these posts have opened my eyes to the situation that you, my brothers and sisters in Christ, are also facing today.

    I totally understand Annettes points. I cannot comprehend how could a pastor say that he wouldnt preach because there were just not enough people doing the pledge? Did he really think that EVERYONE were ready with $300 at any moment he asks?? Man!! Wheres love in that? People go to conferences and churches to find healing, consolations, growing and deeper relationship with God and His people. I cannot imagine the feelings of people who, while really have the deep and pure love for God and really want to do something give something, but who also didnt have the resources at the time, or people who might be at critical time in their life spiritually or emotionally, I cannot imagine how they felt

    In my opinion, there is really no need for us to renounce other people who does or doesnt agree with what ones received as a teaching or tasks from God. We are the body of Christ. To make it simple, if one church got the task to be the eye and another to be the ear, we should not accuse one another of sinning for not believing each other, one who sees and the other hears. Why? Because eyes only or ears only are not the WHOLE body. But eyes and ears are parts of THE body. All parts need each another, to share what God has been teaching to each one of us. And all these are meant so that we can praise God for His glory, because by then we can see how rich and how deep He is and that He deserves to be glorified for His knowledge and secretsand the glory of the kings us as His royal priesthood are to seek them.

    Leaders and everyone who have been called earlier to accept God should understand this in order to bring unity in the body of Christ, so that the younger christian souls around us and those who havent accepted Christ will not be confused or even retreat back from the light.

    But we also have to be wise. Acts 20:29-30 has been fulfilled for ages and we may gonna see more of it.
    29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in AMONG you, not sparing the flock.
    30 Also from AMONG yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

    1 Timothy 1:5-7
    5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.
    6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,
    7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

    2 Timothy 4:3-4
    3 For the time will come when they will not endure SOUND doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
    4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

    So we need one another to know more about God. But how do we know which ones right? I agree with Annette. We need to ask for the gift of discernment.

    Matthew 7:15-16, 20
    15 beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
    16 You will KNOW them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
    20 therefore by their fruits you will KNOW them.

    And 2 Timothy 5 says.
    5 But you be WATCHFUL in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

    If we see a shepherd without the fruit of the Spirit, we have to pray for the flock and for ourselves, guard our heart and fulfill our own callings. Like Jo-Ann said, we have to focus on God Christ Himself.

    Let us cease all differences, lest we ourselves become the stumbling stone to the world who watches. If you are touched by the movement, thank God because He touches you and pray for other people. If God makes you see something else, thank God because He makes you see it and pray for other people too.

    This is such a critical time, these posts have awaken me. (Thanks to everyone!) Be courageous and keep the focus! Greetings from Indonesia. God bless everyone who posts here and read them, bless abundantly! :-)

  26. coy says:

    I agree on what the post says.. I thank God for G12, I knew God bcoz of G12, I encounter the Lord bcoz of G12 and I personally known and was known by God thru G12.

    I believe that the problem is not G12. Creating 12 leaders is biblical, even in the old testament, David made his 12 generals. God made His 12 tribes over Israel and in the New testament, Jesus made His 12 apostles.

    But it didnt end there, even if Jesus had His 12, when the Holy Spirit came, He made His apostle named Paul to be sent to the Gentiles, so it became 13 apostles (If you include Barnabas as Apostle then it would be 14).

    The problem is not the structure of G12, but rather the problem is the people inside the G12. John Welseys structure was great but as you can see, a structure without the Holy Spirit is dead. There are people who are making their 12 without the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. They became so harsh with their members and I personally have experienced it. There are so many heartaches and hatred inside the structure coz the Person of the Holy Spirit is not there they just assume that the Holy Spirit is present.

    One negative thing I see is that most people who adopt G12 have their exclusivity of G12. They would say: if you want to adopt the G12 structure, you need to become under me. In short, its always me. Their trinity is: Me, myself and I not Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But Im glad that not all pastors who adopt G12 are doing those selfish trinity.

    May God uproot all who causes divisions in the Body of Christ and may God uproot all pastors who ministers in the flesh. May all the funds of their churches be zero and may all their members leave their church.

    May God blesses those people who listen and obeys the Spirit of God those who love God and not their church, and kept the Blood of the New Covenant in which the conditions thereof is to love one another. May the Lord give them multitudes, May they be on top and not the tail. May their small church be multiplied and become a mega church.

    Let the Gospel be preached throughout the world.

  27. christopher says:

    I feel to say to the author of the article you say you are not concerning yourself with whether or not the vision came from God, but I feel you should concern yourself with this, especially in the light of some of the well-informed comments I have read.
    Ultimately the test is not whether it seems to be a good idea or not but whether it can be properly established by scripture, and the answer to this has to be a resounding No.
    The core problem with the G12 vision is that it falls into the error of the Galatians Foolish Galatians who has bewitched you? in adding legalism to the gospel of Grace. This in turn leads to witchcraft as the leaders use the legalism as a way of controlling people and keeping them under their power. Anyone who dares to disagree becomes a messenger of Satan- and is effectively told they are not welcome. I was briefly involved in G12 and I believe it is not a vision from God at all but is an evil and wicked demonic deception. I feel to say that if you have been involved in it you need to repent and renounce it, and break all soul ties and bonds of false loyalty and bondage of false guilt through prayer, and not turn back.

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