Well considering our book is the oldest in the running (outside Dogs of War), we still have a lot of restrictions (the BSB one as the biggest contender) and we get little back.
In 750 point games, armies should be balanced and in my opinion not use quirky high cost models (is the saurus actually 25% of his army?) to dominate the game.

Especially true if your learning the game, your opponent will learn to rely on moving models thats are hard to kill forwards instead of learning how to move, when to charge and how to employ certain tactics.

Bretonnians aren't defunct yet, some reliable rumoursmiths have indicated that were are going to updated (Wood Elfs is next).

Yup, the hero is pretty legal - Base Scar, Cold one, Light Armor, Great Weapon, Dawnstone, Battle Standard. It even leaves around 20 points below the cap.
Another question - how much would it take to break a full saurus squad? Two flank cavalry charges?

I love playing lizardmen in the edition and consider them to be a preferred match-up. If you run quite long lances with character walls they are sunk. You take out their redirecting skinks quickly with your pegs and small chaff knight units. Then unleash on the saurus/temple guard/kroxigor units with your character buses (ideally with boosted savage up). They really can't stand up to it. Our speed (and ability to choose targets), ranks and hitting power give them a lot of trouble. Trebuchets also make a mess of their blocks (stating the obvious I know).

Even scar vets and old bloods don't worry me too much so long as I have savage beast up. We strike first (they'll be running great weapons) which makes all the difference.

Just my two cents.

At 750 point games you don't have these options. Then a Saurus will be quite a tough nut to crack.

Artinam wrote:
At 750 point games you don't have these options. Then a Saurus will be quite a tough nut to crack.

Surely you could beat him with a Lord? You can get a decent, albeit incomplete, Lord at 750pts. The rest of the Lizardmen units generally fall like a house of cards when charged.

What should I equip lord with in this case? We're dealing with a bunch of S7 attacks (so AS is pretty much useless) and rerollable 2+ on the sauran (natural armor+dawnstone helps). I though about something ignoring armour, but it's hard to get at these points.

Killing Blow perhaps? It ignores armour saves. S6 also reduces his armour to a 5+ with reroll. Which isn't perfect but could take him out before he even gets to swing.

What is the exact build? If you want to totally abandon defence you could use the Virtue of Audacity and The Lance of Artois/Morning Star of Fracasse (if he has a magical weapon).

Sorry for the silence, was a bit distracted with other matters.
Can't name the exact build, but he's 1+, great weapon, dawnstone - nothing fancy.
I came up with Virtue of Audacy+Sword of Heroes lord for our 1000 points game, but I failed most of the rolls during the duel. Not sure if it was just bad luck on my side or the combo isn't that good.
Didn't know Kiling Blow ignores armour (I'm pretty green at Fantasy Battles).

The guy I play regularly at our shop has been scouring the Lizardmen forums for tips and strategies, and he's come up with a new force that I respect and am a little troubled by. The center of the list is two large blocks of Saurus, one led by a Saurus hero with the Crown of Command, and the other led by that damned albino Saurus and another hero. Between the two of these is a large block of Temple Guard with a Slaan and Saurus lord. Chaff involves Ripperdactyls and Bastiladons, a Saurus cowboy on his own, and little else.

This is pretty tough. When he keeps the three infantry units together to support each other, that's three large blocks of Stubborn infantry (albino Saurus grants Stubborn to unit), led by beefy Saurus characters and with decent armor and toughness. Although I can usually hold off much of the magic phase, the Slaan usually gets a regeneration or toughness buff off on the unit that I'm threatening at that moment.

Hunting down chaff and trying to eke out a win isn't really an option -- there's not much chaff out there!

In past games before these lists started emerging, I ignored his stubborn TG unit, isolated one of the Saurus units, and hit it with overwhelming force. I think that this tactic helped to create the lists he's now using... Now, I'm leaning toward using trebs and magic to weaken the TG unit, and just smash that one with overwhelming force, try to wipe them out, and take those VPs. My chaff will try to keep the other Saurus units from getting involved.

This is a bit of a general question re: Stubborn rather than directed toward Lizards, but what else is available when you're facing an army where everything that matters is stubborn LD9 rerollable on three dice?

**

Also, I didn't see much discussion about this in this thread, but the Predatory Fighter's downside, that Saurus must pursue if there's not a skink nearby, is really cool. Yeomen probably won't survive a round against Saurus, but throw a Paladin or unit of PKs in there and you can pull your opponent's battleline off balance. Just don't flub the flee dice...

focus fire and roll down a flank. gauntlet of the duel to kill off the stubborn granting characters eventually. treb fire. if you know you're fighting the lizzies, 90% of the time I'd leave the bowmen home, except for maybe chaff drops. it sounds like that list is light on magic with all the cc beast units, so exploit that with focused magic. maybe a reliquae and a life prophetess to revive some of the 15 or so that'll die per turn.

The list was a bit light on magic defense, though the offense was too strong for me to always keep in control. He easily could have swapped out a Saurus hero for a Skink Priest, though. I was able to get off a couple good spells early in the game, though the last 3 turns I didn't get a single spell due to some terrible magic pools.

Rolling down a flank is tough when the flank is stubborn. My idea in this past game, that I didn't really stick to, was to lock a unit or two in place with the threat of a charge, and then throw some PKs into the flank of another to draw it out (using Predatory Fighter) into the charge range of some other lances, and away from its pals. But for that to work, you've got to either have weakened that unit through trebs, etc., in order to be able to finish it off, or be able to get rid of the T5, 1+ AS Stubborn Saurus leading the unit. I had two characters who should've been up to the challenge (a Sword of the Quest wielding Lord and a Sword of Heroes wielding Paladin), but they both whiffed embarrassingly.

In this last iteration, a big problem I had was my own list. I was trying to do something completely different than what I normally field against his Lizards, for fun, and fielded an RAF list, which didn't really help with all the stubborn units and lack of chaff. I think things would have been different had I had a few more lances.

Agreed bowmen are a waste against Lizards, usually. If I thought he would field a bunch of Skinks, ok. But otherwise, not interested. For chaff drops I'd rather have more mounted yeomen.

I think RAF list is pretty strong against Lizards. You certainly win chaff war and than try to force him to come towards to you. As you mentioned Predatory Fighter's must pursue if there's not a skink nearby. You can use Peg Knights for that with rear charge or flank. Lord with great weapon, GGH and Knightly Temper is a really good build against Lizards, almost as effective as HKB Lord build. You can add Gauntlet of Duel and kill characters

My experience against Lizardmen is very limited but i do agree that bowmen are somewhat less useful.

Trebuchets are always your friends! Saurus warriors are cheap enough to come in big blocks so even with scatter you should get some squished lizards!

Comet of Cassandora is possibly worth a look into: I've actually stopped using it as it normally waits about 4 magic phases to turn up, either giving the enemy time to escape or else preventing my charging. That said, it can be very useful when combined with Trebuchets to whittle down big, tough units.

Personally i would also limit the amount of MY you field. While they are useful i think their high points cost prevents too many being fielded.

I would still be inclined to bring some bowmen. Skinks are weak and probably one of the few things they can beat in melee while knocking a wound or two off big monsters should never be sneered at.

That's pretty much all the advice i can give I'm afraid.

Kind Regards

Wolf

I agree with limiting your yeomen, I've never really liked the raf build much either but that's me. yeomen are just too expensive to bring many of, more knights is always better. I do like that ggh, gw, virtue of temper build suggested, it's cheap and effective. I'd recommend a life prophetess against lizzies, with a supporting beasts damsel or two. the immediate benefits of +4 toughness or 4++ regen is alot more useful against lizard men than a comet that never goes off a few 1d6 s6 hits.