PRETERISTARCHIVE ON FACEBOOK
1/1/11:
Administrative - Migrating Archived Works of Progressive Full
Preterists. The works of current professing Full Preterists who have
stretched beyond the dispensationalism of "all Bible prophecy fulfilled by
AD70" (eg. Kurt Simmons and now
Patrick Stone) are classified under "Progressive
Full Preterism". Those formerly staunch supporters of Full
Preterism who have publicly written about a pause for doctrinal review (eg.
Jason Bradfield) will likewise be listed. (Bless your studies!)
IdealisticPreterism.jpg by Patrick Stone
12/31/10:
12/30/10:
-
Progressive: Jason Bradfield -
Semper Reformanda Full Preterism (2010) "I believe leaving the
community and being inactive elsewhere (not entirely, but to a large
degree) helped position me now into the role of an 'outsider' in regards
to full preterism. Technically, I wasn't an outsider. Practically, I
was. Instead of having my head buried in the sand and getting immersed
with all the in-house scuffles, I was now able to step back and look at
the bigger picture...and I didn't like what I saw. I blogged about this,
an apology which has now been
featured at the infamous
PreteristArchive, a site ran by another former full preterist, Todd
Dennis."
"The rub is ~ given full preterist
presuppositions, i want to know how you GOT from point A to point B.
Systematically, logically, exegetically. Full preterism has NOT, i repeat, NOT
done this! If any full preterist contests that they have, then all they have to
do is simply provide the link here to either the work online
or to a book they have published. It doesn't exist." // "And since no full preterist has done it ~ then why in
the world would any full preterist get upset with me for stepping back and
saying, "dang. I don't know about this full pret stuff anymore"? Why in the
world would anyone get upset with me for wanting to exercise more CAUTION and to
stop being dogmatic about a viewpoint that basically hasn't answered much of
squat?"
12/28/10:
-
Former Full Preterists: Sam Frost
-
Houston, We Have a Problem….. (2010)
"Full Preterism and
Christianity are incompatible."
-
AD
30 Preterism:
What Was Finished? - Last Words "Tetelestai comes from the verb
teleo, which means "to bring to an end, to complete, to accomplish."
It's a crucial word because it signifies the successful end to a
particular course of action. It's the word you would use when you climb
to the peak of Mt. Everest"
-
Former Full Preterists:
Brian Simmons
What Preterists Don’t Want You To Know "Hyper-Preterism conceals the fact that if Jesus Christ returned in A.D.
70 and all Biblical prophecy is fulfilled, there is nothing more to
“deliver” anybody from. Under their scheme, the elements of the Old Testament
law (including the moral law) have been completely dissolved, thus taking away
the standard of ...condemnation.
For “sin is transgression of the law” (1 John 3: 4); and “where no law is, there
is no sin"
12/7/10:
-
"Most forms of Preterism believe except Preteristic Idealism that in A.D.70. all of mankind was made alive by Christ, the just and the unjust inthe universal corporate resurrection of mankind from the sin and death
of Adam into Christ and all made subjects of Him when the City and Temple were destroyed."
12/3/10:
-
Former Full Preterists - Jason
Bradfield
reclassified from
Hyper Preterist to "Modern Preterist"
"the
atonement .::. hiphop inspired by John Owen"
(11/30/10) "I'm done with full preterism. I'm wanting to pursue
systematics. I'm not interested in rabbit trails about personalities.
Sorry. Maybe it will lead me back to full preterism, but frankly, i just
don't see it happening. I see nothing to work with. Good luck trying to
mentor and lead a paradigm that is undefined and ambiguous. Even Chuck
admits, "The fact is that it’s never been clearly defined even what a
full preterist is"' (HyP Response: "The
taxonomy is a nebulous classification.") //
"Preterism in a sense opens Pandora’s box.
Any time one begins to fully recognize his or her freedom in Christ,
their maturity level dictates the outcome. Once unshackled from the
past, exploration can become intoxicating. This is both natural and
dangerous depending upon the restraint exercised. Some handle it well
while others are like a
12/2/10:
-
John
L. Bray
reclassified from
Hyper Preterist to "Modern Preterist"
“I
do not deny that Jesus Christ will come again at sometime in our future.
But what I do say is that most,
if not all, of the Bible passages we have interpreted to refer to such a
future coming actually referred to the coming of Christ in judgment on
the nation of Israel in Ad 67-70. Jesus said the “parousia” would occur
in His generation, along with the other things the disciples had asked
Him about (Matthew 24:3, 34). It is difficult to get any other
interpretation out of this, even though traditions have declared
otherwise. It is the Bible versus tradition on this matter, and one can
draw his own conclusions as to which one is right.”
(12/10 Biblical Perspectives) (HyP Response: "He's
is 89 years old, a little mixed up at times")
DECEMBER 2010 - FACEBOOK
11/22/10:
-
The OPC and Hyper
Preterism (2010) "Not only is hyper-preterism a denial of the clear
biblical teaching about the second coming of Christ and the final
resurrection, it is outside the boundaries of creedal orthodoxy. In the
universal creeds of the church such as the Nicene creed, we confess that
Christ "shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the
dead" and that "we look for the resurrection of the dead." So far
as I know, the OPC does not have a formal statement on hyper-preterism.
But every OPC minister and elder subscribes to the Westminster
Confession of Faith, which unreservedly affirms that there remains a
future advent of Jesus Christ accompanied by a physical, bodily
resurrection."
-
Hyper/Critical/Outside Links:
John Shepard:
Problems with Full Preterism (2002)
-
Critical:
Daymond Duck:
Why Preterism is a false doctrine
(2010) "Those who believe all prophecy has been fulfilled are called
Preterists. Not all Preterists agree with each other. There are partial
Preterists and full Preterists. The partial Preterists are divided into
historicists and futurists. Some of the partial Preterists believe the
full Preterists are pagans, etc." (Prophecy Plus Ministries)
11/21/10:
-
Google Books: Isaac Barrow:
The Way to Prevent the Ruin of a Sinful People
(1720)
-
Nathaniel Lardner
-
On the Jewish Testimonies Regarding the
Destruction of Jerusalem (1730) "It
will certainly be worth the while to take a testimony from these writers
to the destruction of Jerusalem, and the temple there. I shall therefore
transcribe and translate almost word for word a long passage out of the
Babylonian Talmud, in the title Gittin, chapter Hannisah:
“'This is the
tradition. Rabbi Elieser said: Go. And see how the blessed and holy
God helped Bar-kamtza, and he destroyed his house, and burnt up his
temple, and made Jerusalem ' desolate.'"
FOUNDATIONS OF "AD70 DISPENSATIONALISM":
THE AD70 WORLD/AGE HYPOTHESIS
THIS WORLD = OLD COVENANT
AGE (UNTIL AD70)
WORLD TO COME = NEW COVENANT AGE (AFTER AD70)
Identifying "the age
to come" solely with an earthly aion is under consideration for a special
warning label, in that this misconception has become axiomatic in all
"consistent preterist" theologies. Certain orthodox preterists claim
this "ages view" as well, so I won't at this time classify it as "Hyper
Preterism". It will suffice for now to simply call attention to the
consequences of the "AD70 World/Age Hypothesis".
Luke 20:35 But they which shall be
accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the
dead, neither marry , nor are given in marriage ("Worthy to
obtain" demonstrates that the "world to come" isn't received based upon
simple chronology (i.e. AD70), but upon the grounds of worthiness, which can
only be one's identification with the Cross of Jesus Christ.)
11/20/10:
-
FREE
ONLINE BOOKS:
Foy
Wallace -
The
Book of Revelation (1966) "The repeated reference to the period of the Destruction of Jerusalem as indicative of the author's inclination toward that view."
-
Hyper-Regressive/What
Now?
[Collecting comments that focus on "today" from a HyP perspective...
comparing to Sam Frost's Modern Preterist solution to the HyP paradox.]
Ed Stevens "If we assume that the preterist position is correct, then what about the prophetic scriptures that have all been fulfilled. "Are they then profitable any more for today?" ... Is this not taking away from Holy Scripture?' The value of Scripture is enhanced even more by its fulfillment. Now we are not just waiting for the consummation and given only a 'pledge' or 'seal' to get us by until the perfect arrives. We have the full and complete state of the kingdom. We live in His presence and eat at His table and commune with Him in His kingdom. The prophetic scriptures describe all these spiritual blessings that are ours now in the kingdom. Those passages are not just hopes and anxious longings. They are reality. They are realized eschatology."
(Further
Reply to Vander Werff)
-
"Futurist
Revolution" in Full Preterism Rolls on.. "Just thought that you may be interested to know that
I have finally come off the fence, and I jumped firmly down onto your
side of it. Do you know what finally clinched it for me? It was
Rivers of Eden, and the talk he gave with Michael Loomis. He was incredibly
clear and erudite and presented his case well, and as a result I saw
clearly for the first time the consequence of taking the 'all fulfilled'
to it's logical end, and it is not pretty."
(Cite)
11/19/10:
11/18/10: Merged articles from
HyperPreteristArchive.com
Former HyP |
Hyper - Critical, Outside |
Idealism:
11/17/10:
-
/Hyper/critical-outside
When Shall These Things Be? (2004) Dr. Charles Hill “The
hyper-preterist may try to make peace with the discomfiting anomalies of
history by viewing them as an indication of the abysmally low level of
Spiritual apprehension in the subapostolic age. But then this conclusion
will belie his other contention that his view would have been the same
one preached universally by the apostles and received by the
congregations they founded. If this claims to be the faith once
delivered to the saints (Jude 3), we have to conclude that the delivery
was never quite made. Somebody, – no, everybody – fumbled the faith
away. In addition, the hyper-preterist will then have the troubling
paradox that the generation which experienced God’s final perfecting of
his saints is the very generation which let the faith slip through its
hands.” (WSTTB?, p. 119)
-
Regressive
Max King, “For Paul, Israel’s future
consummation was the sum and substance
of the gospel, for what is the gospel except God’s fulfillment of His
promise to Israel through Christ? If, however, Israel and the future
consummation are abandoned, the gospel is stripped of its historical
foundation” (Cross and Parousia, pg. 105).
11/16/10:
-
Hyper-Critical:
Blog -
http://allpowertothelamb.com/ - Futurist interacting critically with
the writings of Don Preston. "Don Preston argues that the “last days” in
Isaiah 2:2 defines the context of all of Isaiah 2-4 to be the “last
days”, which Preston then further defines to be the Destruction of
Jerusalem. In the list below Preston takes scriptures from Isaiah 2-4
and finds what he takes to be parallels in Revelation. Then, Voila!, he
concludes Revelation is merely a highly symbolic book describing the AD
70 destruction of Jerusalem. There are a couple of problems with
Preson’s approach. First, the context of Isaiah 2-4 is not continuous,
and the list of scriptures from there therefore does not speak of a
single prophetic event but refers to various times and events."
Sam Frost
"Full Preterism is the ONLY
Millennial scheme that does not have this Final State - which should make it
suspect, right there. "
(Siegle HyP response: "My
understanding of the "final state" of the believer (a descriptive term that
is never used in Scripture) would relate to his entering into Covenant with
God through identification with and participation in the already
accomplished "resurrection-life" that belongs to the "age to come."")
Frost, 11/15/10: (Sam's older statement in book "House
Divided") "The Preterist scheme is simple: the end of the age took place in
AD 70, and at that time, the "age to come" was inaugurated by the Second
Coming of Christ.....The Kingdom was established in that day and is now
fulfilling passages that speak of its eternal, never ending growth and
increase..." (229). You can already see that issue with me there. But, you
can also see my allusion to Isaiah 9.6 ("increase") and how I had not
formulated an end to history yet. This was my Full Preterist view. The point
of this is to point out the "now fulfilling".....That has always been in my
preaching (mustard seed growth), and even in House Divided, no one picked up
on it then as they are now. So, it demonstrates what I used to believe, and
how the argument from infinity has made a huge impact in my thinking as
well. I wasn't searching for this. I was quite happy where I was at. But, I
do operate from two things, one of which you mentioned. First, Scripture...
So, I now had a choice: choose what I have always believed, or tow the Full
Preterist line even to the point of "paradox". But, that would mean I
abandon my epistemology - and that was not going to happen, either. These
choices - far more important to me than some speculative point of Full
Preterism (infinite procreation) have become crystal clear. Crystal clear. "
Sounds like similar
method:
Dave Green:
"That salvation was predicted, foreshadowed, and proclaimed in the old testament. It was a salvation that would be fulfilled and realized at the Cross of Christ, and fully consummated at His Presence in the end of the old-covenant age in A.D. 70."
(New
Covenant Salvation)
"He shall make it (Jerusalem)
desolate, even until the consummation," - Does this prophecy
look past AD70? As far as Masada or farther?
11/12/10:
11/8/10:
-
Eugene Stovall -
The Idumean Covenant: A Novel of the Fall of Jerusalem (2010) "Inexplicably,
however, Josephus relates in his Jewish Wars that the insurrectionists
against Rome called upon “the Idumeans” for support in order to prevent
the Judean sect of Sadducees from turning Jerusalem over to the Romans.
In addressing this enigma, The Idumean Covenant becomes a locomotive
taking the intelligent reader on a historical adventure of cynical
plots, unconventional alliances and impossible loves pitting the most
powerful men of the Roman Empire against each other resulting in a
dramatic transformation of the existing world order. "
11/7/10:
SAM FROST FINDING AGREEMENT AMONG FULL
PRETERIST GROUPS THAT REFUTES THE TRADITIONAL TEACHING THAT "ALL BIBLE
PROPHECY WAS FULFILLED IN AD70" //
CREATES NATURAL DEFINITION FOR "HYPER-PRETERISM" - "ALL BIBLE
PROPHECY WAS FULFILLED IN AD70"
-
Sam Frost:
BCS, Ch. 21 Pt. 1 (11/5/10) "The “buzz” going around on the other
Preterist websites is that they, too, see “ongoing fulfillment.” If this
is the case, then Full Preterism needs to drop the moniker that “we
believe ALL prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 70.” They weren’t. The
prophecies concerning the “age to come” are being fulfilled today.
-
On Prophecy - "I suppose the difference is that I believe that this
goal is prophesied. Once it is accomplished perhaps then
God will end history. I don’t know when He will, just that he has
revealed in the Bible that he will (Eccl 3.11; Is
41.4, et al)."
-
On Full Preterist Covenant Creationism - "One has to buy into the
entire system it seems in order for the "parts" to work. But when
one starts questioning the parts, that's where it breaks down. "
11/6/10:
-
R.C. Sproul -
Signs of
the End "The signs in 24:4–35 refer to the coming of Jesus in
AD 70 to judge Jerusalem and those who
rejected Him as the Messiah. This coming was not our Lord’s second
advent as judge over the whole earth, which this view argues is yet to
come. Full preterism (which denies that Christ’s second advent lies
ahead) is to be rejected for its failure to recognize an essential truth
of Scripture (Acts 1:6–11). Full preterists erroneously believe the
events of AD 70 and the second advent are
identical, allowing for no subsequent return of the King."
-
Administrative:
Dorothy Anderson removed from "Former
Full Preterist" list.
("I’ve witnessed the other formers over the years and how well I know
what they have experienced. I have great empathy for them now that I’ve
been there. On the other hand, just like my experience, I find a huge
lack of scriptural reason for their abandonment of the full preterist
position." // 11/9/10: "There
were many who contributed to me leaving and like I’ve said earlier, it
all evolved around texts that I had not fully reconciled, nor seen
reconciled to my satisfaction while in the full prêt camp. Maybe to
some degree I did want to be accepted in the orthodox community again.
Can’t say that with a high degree of certainty, but can’t discount it
either.")
-
VIDEO: Gary DeMar : Who Is The Antichrist?
Sam Frost Show - Wednesdays at
AD70.net
Was ALL Bible Prophecy Fulfilled by AD70?
No.
-
Samuel Frost -
Towards a Fuller Preterism (10/31/2010) "This.. is the real deal of
what FP teaches: the earth will never, ever, never, ever never never
know peace.......WAR IS THE NORM on earth for INFINITY. Folks....this is
now unmasked..... " (HyP Response:
"What the true proverb says has happened … "The dog returns to its own
vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the
mire.")
- Response to Green on Towards a Fuller
Preterism (11/3/10) - "Green here asserts that “in accordance with
BIBLE PROPHECY” we are still “growing”. So, let’s think logically
here. If BIBLE PROPHECY is still BEING fulfilled (still growing as
the PROPHETS said) beyond A.D. 70, then…..well, you can do the math.
But, in case you missed that, Green says it
again: the Bible “describes” the age to come. Now, this was the
whole point of my paper, was it not. But, if this is true, then the
Bible speaks “beyond” A.D. 70. And, if it so speaks (prophesies),
then what exactly is the problem, Dave? You have made my point:
Bible Prophecy was not “all” fulfilled in A.D. 70! Q.E.D. If it
“describes” (read, prophesies), then, clearly, all prophecy is not
yet fulfilled. This underscores my point: ongoing FULFILLMENT. Ask
a Covenant Creationist if prophecy is, in any way, shape, or form,
“being fulfilled” today. It is THIS TYPE of FP that I am
attacking. It’s not a straw man."
11/4/10:
11/3/10:
- Google Books:
The History of the Siege and Destruction of Jerusalem
-
Mark 13 & the Fall of Jerusalem "Mark
13 is rife with material that forms part of the popular Christian
imagination about “the end times.” By “the end times,” of course, I
mean, the vision of the future era that will precede the coming of Jesus
from heaven to earth. But the passage is set up so that readers will
view it as a prophetic...
warning about being a follower of Jesus in the face of the destruction
of Jerusalem and the temple as occurred in AD 70."
10/31/10:
- Former Full Preterists:
Sam Frost: Towards A Fuller Preterism, Part 1 "I was going to
entitle this series, “Preterism Has No Future”, but decided against it.
I think certain forms of what has come to be known as Full Preterism
(FP) has no future in terms of surviving outside the internet community.
The academic community has all but rejected it"
10/20/10:
10/17/10:
10/12/10:
-
Gary
DeMar:
Rare comments from Gary DeMar on Full Preterism:
"The Full Preterist crowd is small, and there are defectors every day.
Then there's the problem of the nearly dozen views of Full Preterism..
Further, I don't write articles denouncing Full Preterism, although
there are many partial preterists who argue I should. And I certainly
don't misrepresent Full Preterists. Engaging Full Preterists would end
up being a big tar baby. For what? A few Full Preterists who can't agree
among themselves."
-
Which Mountain is Your Refuge?
"In the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, believers heeded Christ’s
words to flee to the mountains of Pella. Today, when crises come,
to where do you flee with confidence?"
10/11/10:
10/7/10:
-
Defining
"Hyper Preterism" -
Sam Frost defines "Hyper Preterism" - Any form of Full Preterism which
ends prophetic fulfillment in AD70. "Now, sure,
they will say, people still come into the city of the New Jerusalem and christianity spreads and has spread for the last 2,000 years, BUT THIS
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING THE BIBLE PROMISED, PROPHESIED, or
PREDICTED according to what I now call: Hyper Preterism."
-
HyP response by Mike Sullivan: "Sam knows he is
loosing credibility among FP/Covenant Eschatology folks really fast, so
he is desperately trying to re-define the terms so that we are now
"hyper-preterists"---- Selah! ..Sam has struggled with alcohol and
his marriage and hasn't been experiencing the joy of the Lord as much as
he wants to. He blames FP for this and continues to "drift" more and
more back into the PP "orthodox" and "scholarly" world hoping this will
solve his problems. Sorry Sam - it might temporarily, but in the long
run it will only magnify your problems and specifically your conscience
7 fold! " (cf.
regressive)
-
HyP response by Tim
Martin "The ironic
thing is that some are suggesting that their personal experience
indicates a "problem" with full-preterist theology. If that isn't the "blame game," I don't know what
is. All based on personal observations (empirical in nature) and feelings, no
less! Others have done it before, too, in my opinion. Similar arguments were
introduced in the "preterist-idealist" fiasco a few years ago. Nothing new here.
That is my advice to those pondering blaming full-preterism for their own
issues. Don't do it. You're just digging your own misery in deeper and deeper.
If you don't take responsibility it is only going to get worse."
10/9/10:
-
Former Full Preterists: Vince Krivda -
That He Should Save Both: The Full-Preterist Incarnation Controversy "One common teaching in Full-Preterism is that believers
are only redeemed from spiritual defect and not in both body and soul. Such
teaching contradicts several articles of the faith which systematically
constitute the Gospel. Thus, Full Preterism does not take heed to build upon
foundational doctrine, ...but
rather it substitutes dogmata with aberrant novelties that have already been
rejected by the Church."
10/1/10: Happy
14th Anniversary PreteristArchive (1996-2010)
9/30/10:
-
Over 2,000 Prophecies Perfectly Fulfilled | Bible Prophecy Update
Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells
specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they
occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible,
about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no
errors." (80% agreement on the important
Bible prophecies is not that bad at all.)
9/24/10:
9/22/10:
-
Jonathan Edwards's interpretation of Revelation 4:1-8:1 "David
Holwerda notes that "even when a prophecy points to a final future event
in the eyes of most interpreters, Calvin usually insists that it is
already being fulfilled.. The millennial belief assumes that Christ will
reign visibly on the not-yet-renewed earth for a limited period of time.
But Calvin believes that the...
perfected kingdom already exists in Christ, that it is eternal and
includes the renovation of the world. Consequently, Christ's visible
appearance can mean only the final revelation of a perfected kingdom"
9/17/10:
Thomas Ice: "Firmin Abauzit (1679-1767) of Geneva, who was a friend of Rousseau
and Voltaire, published a commentary on Revelation in 1730 titled Historic
Discourse on the Apocalypse, in which he advocated a more complete preterist
view than his predecessors." 9/16/10:
-
1798 SERMON AT BOSTON,MA. REV. DAVID TAPPAN VERY RARE
"The Theocracy established in the Jewish
nation, and the whole train of divine proceedings respecting that people
are conducted upon this principle. This conduct of Deity was designed as
a Specimen of the usual methods of administration towards all public
bodies ; though it does not warrant them to expect such immed...iate
and extraordinary retributions or providence, as were dispensed to
ancient Israel. As God was the political Sovereign of the Jews, as they
held their peculiar privileges and even the land of Canaan on condition
of their loyalty.."
-
The Gospel of Matthew: The Use of the Fall of Jerusalem as a Watershed
for the Dating Hugely significant commentary on
Matthew: "Scholars have mosl commonly dated Matthew in the 80s or ihe
90s. But this is not to any significant degree because they have been
able to identify in Matthew features that reflect what is definitely
known of a situation in the 80s and 90s. They regularly claim just one
fixed ...point;
that Matthew reflects knowledge of the destruction of Jerusalem and its
temple in a.d. 70. This knowledge is said to be reflected most clearly
in Mt. 22:7 and is sometimes claimed to be reflected in 23:36. 38 and
24:2. But while they are likely right to think that the present form of
Mt. 22:7 reflects the Jerusalem focus on the judgment materials of
chaps. 23 and 24 (see the discussion at 22:7) and to that degree is not
an original feature of the parable, there is no basis for going beyond
this and claiming that Matthew has written in light of what actually
happened in A.D. 70.
-
Jerry Bowers -
Beyond Full
Preterism (9/16/10) "As my own journey
in Full Preterist circles has evolved, I’ve discovered multiple
discrepancies within Full Preterism that simply make it untenable, to
the point that I’m not comfortable associating my name within this
school of thought any longer. I foolishly believed that once...
I discovered this title/label, I had discovered a group of believers who
actually had a cohesive school of thought on Eschatology; that was my
fault all the way."
9/14/10:
-
Derek Daschke:
City of Ruins:
Mourning the Destruction of Jerusalem Through Jewish Apocalypse
(2010)
-
Dr. Francis Nigel Lee:
Jerusalem; Rome;
Revelation - John's Apocalypse Written Before AD70 - Added
Bibliography (pdf)
-
LaHaye/Ice:
The End Times
Controversy: The Second Coming Under Attack (2003)
"German
Preterism -
Firmin Abauzit (1679-1767) of Geneva, who was a friend of
Rousseau and Voltaire, published a commentary on Revelation in 1730
titled Historic Discourse on the Apocalypse, in which he advocated a
more complete preterist view than his predecessors. Abauzit's work also
broke new ground in that it was the first "in this period to attack the
canonical authority of the Apocalypse"
Preterist
Moses Stuart says of
Abauzit that his "book is generally regarded as marking the commencement
of a new period in the criticism of the Apocalypse." Stuart describes
Abauzit's views as follows: "His starting point was, that the book
itself declares that all which it predicts would take place speedily.
Hence Rome, in chap, xiii-xix. points figuratively to Jerusalem. Chap.
xxi. xxii. relate to the extension of the church, after the destruction
of the Jews."
Johann Gottfried Herder
(1744-1803) is credited with adopting Abauzit's understanding of the
Apocalypse and also saw it as "emphasizing) the Jewish catastrophe."
Herder expressed his views in his book entitled Maranatha, which was
published in 1779 "Stuart said this about Herder's form of preterism:
"Although he seems to move in a narrow circle, as to the meaning of the
book; limiting it so generally to the Jews, yet he makes God's dealings
with them, and with his church at that period, symbolical of the
circumstances of the church in every age."
In 1791, Johann
Gottfried Eichhorn (1752-1827) produced a commentary on
Revelation that was exalted, emulated, and admired in critical German
circles for many years.137 While Eichhorn did not see all of the
Apocalypse being fulfilled in the first century, as did Abauzit and
Herder, he did see a number of Jewish fulfillments in the second half of
Revelation. Eichhorn was a typical German preterist—he did not believe
the Bible was inspired by God, nor did it contain predictive prophecy.
Stuart says, "I do not and cannot regard Eichhorn as a believer in
Christianity, in the sense in which those are who admit the inspired
authority of the Scripture."
European preterism of the post-Reformation period, especially the German
variety, was attractive to those of the liberal persuasion. Froom
observes: "Preterist principles have been adopted and adapted by those
of rationalistic mind as the easiest way to compass the problem of
prophecy, throwing it into the past, where it does not affect life
today. It has had a sizable following among rationalists, of which
Modernism is the modern counterpart." Preterists in our own day may be
pleased about the historical evidence for the spread of preterism in the
eighteenth and nineteenth centuries in Europe. However, they cannot be
happy that the foundational support for this growth of preterism was
based upon German rationalism and unbelief." (The End Times Controversy,
pp. 55-56)
-
Former Full Preterist:
Mark Edward:
Why I left full preterism, and where I am now - Sovereign Grace
Preterism
9/13/10:
9/12/10:
Samuel
M. Frost, Former Full Preterist?
"If, in fact, we are living during the
times of the "healing of the nations", then this is ongoing in fulfillment
to the Scriptures. / If this, then,
is so, then one must concede the argument of 'fullfillment already -
manifestation not yet' (my argument in a nutshell)."
(If Sam is applying this to our resurrection as well, he will be
reclassified as "Modern Preterist"... developing)
Samuel Frost's
view that the kingdom came in the first century and yet that Jesus is now
conquering the world through the gospel is much closer to traditional
Christianity, and appears to have the endorsement of Dr. Talbot. If
Sam's "Ongoing
Fulfillment" relates to the
conquest of the Gospel over all nations, kings and religions, does that
qualify as Full Preterism?
-
Mike
Sullivan, David Green, Ed Hassertt:
SAM FROST'S DEPARTURE FROM FULL PRETERISM INTO THE
PARTIAL PRETERIST / PRETERIST IDEALIST WORLD OF TALBOT
(9/10/2010) "In Sam’s end of the world article he claimed that Full Preterist’s understand
the long ages of Isaiah 65 as teaching “spiritual abundance.” I followed this up
with asking Sam if this meant that he changed his interpretation of the
passage (to the FP one), or if he was being misleading in that he was still
holding onto a PP Postmillennial (PPP) hermeneutic (it is spiritual [“spiritual
abundance”] AND literal – the long ages will be seen as the passage is “fully
manifested/fulfilled” over time). Again, Sam dodged the question. How
scholarly, respectful, and loving."
-
Sam Frost: "no Preterist has
been able to say to me that 'nothing changes' when we physically
die. In other words, it is correct to say 'I am glorified' today in
the Body of Christ, as He is Glorified. However, is this
glorification FULLY MANIFEST or APPARENT today? Now, ask yourself:
will it be in heaven when I physically die? Will anything change?
Will I still be the same, old bumbling Sam Frost that I am here on
earth? Will I still be subject to occasional sin? Error? If not, why
not? Do I get 'something else' in Heaven? It is not so much that we
'get' something else, but that that which WE HAVE (II Cor. 5.1-2)
will be ENTIRELY in FULL OPERATION - FULL ON POWER. If this, then,
is so, then one must concede the argument of 'fullfillment already -
manifestation not yet' (my argument in a nutshell)."
1.
The kingdom would come as a mustard seed in the Parousia in AD 70.
2. Then after the Parousia in AD 70, the kingdom will grow for untold
thousands of years until it finally "fill[s] all the earth,"
in fulfillment of
Daniel 2:35 and other prophecies.
Does a view of the Kingdom's arrival
on Earth in the first century set the stage for future consummation?
Were ALL of His enemies crushed beneath His feet when the Kingdom came,
or was that just the beginning of the march of the conquest of the King
and His Word now that there was a new player on the historical scene?
Cf. Paganism vs. Christianity in
past; Islam in future:
Islam and Bible Prophecy :
A Case Study in the "Eventual Gospel Universalism" of
J.S.
Russell, David Chilton,
and Samuel Frost
"EVENTUAL GOSPEL UNIVERSALISM"
Peace on Earth where all competing religions
eventually bow the knee to Jesus in defeat -- such as
Paganism did in the conversion of the Roman Empire to King
Jesus
312
"Surely, it was not in vain that Jesus said, ‘I am
the Light of the World.’ ‘God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that
the world through him might be saved.’ ‘I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw
all men unto myself.’" James Stuart Russell, The
Parousia (emphasis in original) |
|
James Stuart Russell |
David Chilton on "Eventual Gospel
Universalism" Here is Chilton before his conversion to full preterism
(if his view qualifies.. that is what is under dispute regarding Sam's
theology) and after:
(Before)
""It is certainly true that righteousness does not dwell in
the earth in an absolute sense; nor will this world ever be
absolutely righteous, until the final enemy is defeated at the
Second Coming of Christ.. according to God's promise, the saving
knowledge of Him will yet fill the earth, as the waters cover
the sea." (Days of Vengeance,
544)
(After) "Once the Lord
came to destroy the scaffolding of the Old Covenant structure,
the New Covenant Temple would be left in its place, and the
victorious march of the Church would be unstoppable. According
to God's predestined design, the world will be converted; the
earth's treasures will be brought into the City of God, as the
Paradise Mandate (Gen. 1:27-28; Matt. 28:18-20) is consummated
(Rev. 21:1-27)." (from "New Heavens and Earth")
DOES SUCH A GRAND FUTURE
EXPECTATION (THE "PARADISE MANDATE" YET TO BE CONSUMMATED) STILL QUALIFY
AS FULL PRETERISM? IF THE BIBLE ANTICIPATES WORLD-WIDE
CONVERSION.. WOULDN'T THAT BE A PROPHECY AS OF YET UNFULFILLED?
If "eventual gospel universalism" is true, then
should we expect CHRIST'S TRIUMPHANT MARCH TO FIND FULFILLMENT IN THE
FALL OF ISLAM?
- Is Christianity expected to conquer over
Islam on Earth one day? What would Bible prophecy suggest regarding the
outcome of the 'Sovereign status' duel between Jesus and Mohammed? Is Jesus'
kingdom of this world, or is He solely interested in saving souls while His
competitors pillage His people? (Fb
Port)
Let the saints be joyful in glory;
Let them sing aloud on their beds.
Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
And a two-edged sword in their hand,
To execute vengeance on the nations,
And punishments on the peoples;
To bind their kings with chains,
And their nobles with fetters of iron;
To execute on them the written judgment—
This honor have all His saints.
Ps. 149
AD79
and vesuvius has been seen as a good example of this conquest, as
Lyn
Schuldt pointed out in 1996. As with all warfare, this
march naturally leads to a climax. This would be either the failure of
the Gospel to conquer, or His subduing all nations and religions beneath
Him. As the last holdout falls (in Jerusalem, probably), this would bestow
an unprecedented peace on Earth and goodwill towards man. Even
full preterism seems to necessitate some form of futurist consummation in
this case. Sam is way out in front of the pack... although I
wonder if there will ever be a time when there aren't competitors to the
throne. Every generation brings a new crop of would-be religious or
political autocrats.
By the Way, is Islam in Bible Prophecy?
-
ChristiaNet:
Is the
Rise of Islam in the Bible? -
Many viewpoints chime in on the question of the fulfillment of
"prophecies relating to Mohammed".
-
IslamWorld:
Did Jesus and Isaiah
PROPHESY the coming of MUHAMMAD? -
Prophecies fulfilled after AD70? Or Not
Applicable?
"The word parakletos is peculiar in the NT
to the Johnannine literature. In 1John ii1 Jesus is a parakletos (not a
title), serving as a heavenly intercessor with the Father. ...Christian
tradition has identified this figure (Paraclete) as the Holy Spirit, but
scholars like Spitta, Delafosse, Windisch, Sasse, Butlmann and Betz have
doubted whether this identification is true to the original picture and
have suggested that the Paraclete was once an independent salvific
figure, later confused with the Holy Spirit." (page 1135).
9/11/10:
Unprecedented wave of introspection within Full Preterism
(NOTE: Links are to Full Preterists websites):
- Edward J. Hassertt -
I'm a Bit Crushed
Today... (April 16, 2010) "Seeing preterism devolve
into an attempt to get the biggest piece of the pie possible instead of
ministering to others and helping others learn, it depressing. Then
seeing a man I respect support such things, just tears my heart out.
Then when I look in the mirror I see the man I should be pointing a
finger at." (Resigned from
Preterist Radio on 9/11/10)
-
Sam Frost -
Full Preterism and the Problem of Infinity (May 22, 2010)
"This move in my direction, knowing
the role I have played (and will continue to gladly play) in the FP
movement, is not an attempt to prove the FP as entirely wrong. " "I have been shamelessly accused of almost
everything one can think of
for breaking ranks on this issue. I follow no ranks. I am not one to
insist that “no one can leave the compound!” I go where my studies and
my conscience before God leads me, period. I don’t “tow the line” for
anyone, any party, or ...any movement."
-
Preston-Simmons Debate (Spring-Summer 2010)
"The cross has vanished
from Don’s soteriology. "/ "This is the long and short of Don’s
teaching: nothing happened at the cross."
- Jason Bradfield -
An Apology to the Public
Regarding Preterism
(August 26, 2010) "The online Preterist community is an
embarrassment on many levels. And by "preterism", i am referring to full
preterism.. i am preaching against myself as well. I have been guilty of
some of these things. Hence, one of the reasons i wanted to take a
break and reassess things."
-
Preterism Debate - I think it is time
(September 3, 2010)
"To say the least, the time is now, and I
know that many of us, regardless of what position we hold in Full
Preterism, this goes without saying, but must be said."
"the Holy Spirit is NOT working within us
as a unit, and the possiblity of us being wrong the entire time, is
showing more and more as time goes by while we bicker like little
children.. I am positive, Christ is NOT happy with any of this."
-
Larry Siegle -
Preterism: Back to the Drawing Board? (September 5, 2010)
"Here
are several things for each one of us to consider carefully:
- Have we allowed ourselves to become
defensive toward others simply because of a point of 'exegetical'
difference?
- Have we given ourselves over to the
sin of pride, seeking to protect and to defend our "pet" theories
instead of having a willingness to continue to study together as
fellow believers?
- Have those who consider themselves
"Leaders" set a poor example in our own conduct and attitudes toward
others, both within the movement and outside?
- Have we adopted unsound principles
of interpretation in an effort to "prove" more than the text
actually has to say?
- Has being a "Preterist" become a
"hobby-horse" creating a theological imbalance about other important
aspects of doctrine and godly living?
- Has the gospel of Jesus Christ
become nothing more than an "intellectual" exercise in which we
promote a spirit of strife and argumentation, over the practical and
spiritual meaning of just being a Christian?
A
Dictionary of the Writers on the Prophecies (1835 PDF) |
Works Relating to Jews
in the New York Library (1914 PDF) |
Fulfilled Prophecy Bibliography
| PDF Book Files
PAST AND PRESENT STATE OF PALESTINE ; Christ's
Second Coming not fulfilled at the Destruction of Jerusalem.—This is the
title of a little pamphlet
aiming to establish that the
second coming of
Christ could not, as
some suppose, have
taken place at the
period of the destruction
of Jerusalem. The
author proves clearly
to our mind that the issue of the
destruction
of Jerusalem was very
different from the effects that were to result to
the Jews at Christ's second
coming, and that the promises to them,
connected with that event, have not yet been
fulfilled. The author proves first of all—and it is
really a sad token that such a proof is required—
that Christ did not
certainly appear on earth during that period. He
then proceeds to narrate the events we are led to
expect before our Lord's coining. He mentions the
works and signs of Antichrist, and his appearance,
and argues—and we herein agree with him—that he has
not yet come, and that the description given of him
is only in part applicable to any of the supposed
Antichrists. One of the signs is, the Jews will
receive him; for our Saviour says,' 'If another
shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."
Now if the Jews had ever received such an one, they
could not still be looking for Messiah, as they are
to this day.
The coming of
Christ is to be
immediately after the
tribulation of those days. Those days, our author
says, are not yet ended ; they will close with the
tribulation of the last days, after which Jesus will
immediately appear. Christ
is to come after the Jews are converted ; now
if He had come at the destruction of Jerusalem, how
is it that the veil continues unto the present day ?
Christ is to light
for Israel. He certainly did not fight for them at the destruction of
Jerusalem. .Again, a resurrection must attend
our Lord's return to this earth, and the
judgment must take place after He has come. The
author demonstrates that these things have not yet
taken place, but most surely will be fulfilled.
We have given a very meagre
outline of this little book, as we are pressed for
want of space. But even this mere sketch will
suffice to show that the contents are interesting
and varied, and worthy to be studied." (The
Scattered nation and Jewish Christian magazine,
vol. II)
A response to:
The Second
Advent: Or, what do the Scriptures teach respecting
the Second Coming of Christ, the End of the World,
the Resurrection of the Dead, and the General
Judgment ?
9/9/10:
Philip Mauro wrote 35 books of
which three were later published as one volume (Expository
Readings in Romans in 1913).
The Number of Man (1909) is
included as a bonus item.
Bible Chronology and
Patmos Visions were
eventually published as revised, expanded publications (The
Wonder of Bible Chronology and
Of Things Which Must Soon Come to
Pass, both in 1936). Both are still in print today and freely
available. Mauro later retracted his 1913 book,
Looking for the Saviour and
for that reason it was not included in the collection of book
manuscripts.
The rest are all here:
(1)
Reason to Revelation (1905); (2) The World and Its God (1905); (3) Man’s Day
(1908); (4) Life in the Word (1909); (5) The “Wretched Man” and His
Deliverance (1910); (6) God’s Gospel and God’s Righteousness (Romans
1:1–5:11) (1910); (7) God’s Gift and Our Response (Romans 5:12–8:13) (1910);
(8) God’s Love and God’s Children (Romans 8:14–16:27) (1910) – 6, 7 and 8
later appeared in one publication, see Number 11; (9) God’s Pilgrims (1912);
(10) God’s Apostle and High Priest (1913); (11) Expository Readings in
Romans (1913) (see 6,7 and 8 previously); (12) The Last Call to the Godly
Remnant (1914); (13) Baptism (1914); (14) “After This”: or the Church, the
Kingdom and the Glory (1918); (15) The Kingdom of Heaven: What Is It? And
When? And Where? (1918); (16) Bringing Back the King (1919); (17) A Kingdom
Which Cannot Be Shaken (1919); (18) God’s Present Kingdom (1919); (19) Our
Liberty in Christ, a Study in Galatians (1920); (20) Ruth, the Satisfied
Stranger (1920); (21) Evolution at the Bar (1922); (22) James: The Epistle
of Reality (1923); (23) The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation (1923,
revised 1944); (24) Which Version? Authorized or Revised? (1924); (25) How
Long to the End? (1927); (26) The Gospel of the Kingdom (1928); (27) The
Hope of Israel (1929); (28) The Church, the Churches and the Kingdom (1936)
TITLES INCLUDED IN “COLLECTED SHORTER
WRITINGS” The
Collected Shorter Writings is
approximately 300 pages long and should by itself be a collector's dream: 30
manuscripts of which some can only be classified as extremely rare or scarce
while others are classics. A terrific compilation.
(1) A Personal Testimony (1909); (2) The Truth about Evolution (1905); (3)
God’s Way in Sickness (1907); (4) Eternal Relationships (1908); (5) The
Present State of the Crops (1908); (6) Modern Philosophy (1909); (7) The
Foundations of Faith (1909); (8) The Characteristics of the Age and Their
Significance (1909); (9) The Christian’s Choice: Self-Life or Christ-Life.
Which? (1910); (10) Concerning Spiritual Gifts (1910); (11) The Order of the
Star in the East (1915); (12) Concerning Fellowship in Breaking Bread
(1915); (13) Shall We Smite with the Sword? (1917); (14) Christ’s Entry into
Jerusalem; (15) The “Character” of Matthew’s Gospel (1919); (16) The House
of God (1919); (17) Watch. Be Ready. (1919); (18) By What Means? (1919);
(19) More Than a Prophet (1919); (20) Speaking in Tongues (1920); (21) The
Sign of the Prophet Jonah (1923); (22) Paul and the Mystery (1923); (23)
Never Man Spake Like This Man (1923); (24) Dispensationalism Justifies the
Crucifixion (1927); (25) The Kingdom Heresies of S. D. Gordon (1930); (26) A
Letter to a Dispensationalist (1933); (27) What is the Millennium of
Revelation 20? (1944); (28) Things Pertaining to the Kingdom of God (1979);
(29) Gog and Magog (1981); (30) The Prayer in Gethsemane (1981).
BONUS ITEMS
(1) The
Number of Man (1909) (essentially the same theme as
Man's Day of 1908 but nevertheless
included in the Library); (2) A Chronological Timeline of the Bible
(compiled from the charts in The Wonder of
Bible Chronology); (3) The 430 years of Exodus 12:40, 41 and
Galatians 3:17 and The 400 years of Genesis 15:13 and Acts 7:6 (compiled
from the charts in The Wonder of Bible
Chronology).
9/6/10:
9/4/10:
-
PRETERISM REFUTED WITH MID ACTS DISPENSATIONALISM Satan's policy of
evil against the Body of Christ has been, since the first century, to
confuse Christians about where in the Scriptures to find the gospel.
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either
quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." (Author unknown).
9/3/10:
-
R.W. Dale The Jewish temple and the Christian church
(1871) "The end of all things is at hand." "His voice then
shook the earth, but now hath He promised, saying, yet once more I shake not the
earth only but also heaven." In His last revelation to mankind, God's purposes
are reaching perfect accomplishment. Empires which had overshadowed the whole
earth had decayed and perished....
The institutions and laws which God Himself had originally established, the
temple He had consecrated, the priests He had anointed, were now ready to vanish
away."
-
I think it is time - Preterism Debate
"To say the least, the time is
now, and I know that many
of us, regardless of what position we hold in Full Preterism, this goes
without saying, but must be said."
-
The Emperor Julian "(Julian) realized that the very existence of
Jewish communities called into question the claims of Christianity. The Jews
were exultant and contributed generously to the work. The rubble was cleared
away and the foundations laid bare, but then a disastrous fire of mysterious
origin accompanied by an earthquake put an abrupt end to the project."
9/2/10:
8/29/10:
-
Lewis C. Todd:
A Defence containing
the author's renunciation of Universalism (1834) "It may be
urged In favour of the universalist exposition of the 25th of Matthew,
that the spread of the Gospel among the Gentiles and their induction
into the gospel faith, is what is meant by the "blessed coming to
inherit the kingdom," &c. and their coming into life eternal; but this
did not take place in any special sense, at the destruction of
Jerusalem."
-
Daniel
Whitby (1710)
"Having given my Conjecture, that the Jewish Church, with their rulers,
were the Antichrist mentioned by St. Paul; I proceed to shew, how their
Apostasy, when they were thus deserted by God, resembled, and ran
Parallel to the Apostasy of the Roman Church." (Additional comments on
II Thess. 2)
8/28/10:
-
First Generation
Modern Preterist:
Thomas
Hayne Study Archive "The
debate between Mede and Thomas Hayne illustrates an important division
that emerged within English apocalyptic tradition. // All that awaited
fulfillment in Hayne's interpretation of the apocalyptic drama was the
return of Christ to throw the Devil, the beast and the false prophet
into the eternal lake of fire (20:10). In the end neither
Mede
nor Hayne surrendered any exegetical ground."
-
Preterist Universalism: (Author unknown)
The Case for Biblical Universalism: Preterist
Eschatology (u/k)
"Preterism still struggled to gain credibility within other Protestant
countries, especially England. The English commentator Thomas Hayne
claimed that the prophecies of Daniel had all been fulfilled by the 1st
century (‘Christs Kingdom on Earth’, 1645), and Joseph Hall expressed
the same conclusion concerning Daniel’s prophecies (‘The Revelation
Unrevealed’, 1650), but neither of them applied their Preterist views to
Revelation. However, the exposition of Grotius convinced the Englishman
Henry Hammond. Hammond sympathized with Grotius’ desire for unity among
Christians, and found his Preterist exposition useful to this end.[17]
Hammond wrote his own Preterist exposition in 1653, borrowing
extensively from Grotius. In his introduction to Revelation he claimed
that others had independently arrived at similar conclusions as himself,
though he gives pride of place to Grotius.[18] Hammond was Grotius’ only
notable Protestant convert, and despite his reputation and influence,
Grotius’ interpretation of Revelation was overwhelmingly rejected by
Protestants and gained no ground for at least 100 years."
-
Turpin Library (DTS)
Rare Online Books Collection - Authors Index
-
Jeffrey K. Jue:
Heaven on Earth: Joseph Mede and the rise of millenarianism -
Section 8 - Challenges from Preterists (2006) This book
contributes to the ongoing revision of early modern British history by
examining the apocalyptic tradition through the life and writings of
Joseph Mede (1586-1638). The history of the British apocalyptic
tradition has yet to undergo a thorough revision. Past studies followed
a historiographical paradigm which associated millenarianism with a
revolutionary agenda. A careful study of Joseph Mede, one of the key
individuals responsible for the rebirth of millenarianism in England,
suggests a different picture of seventeenth-century apocalypticism. The
roots of Mede's apocalyptic thought are not found in extreme activism,
but in the detailed study of the Apocalypse with the aid of ancient
Christian and Jewish sources. Mede's legacy illustrates the geographical
prevalence and long-term sustainability of his interpretations. This
volume shows that the continual discussion of millenarian ideas reveals
a vibrant tradition that cannot be reconstructed to fit within one
simple historiographical narrative.
"The sixteenth century marked the
increase of the historical-prophetic exegetical method, while the
seventeenth century witnessed the dominance of this hermeneutic. Yet
within this historicist tradition in England, two competing
interpretations arose. The New England pastor, Increase Mather,
expressed his opinion of ...the
Dutch scholar Hugo Grotius and his most ardent English supporter Henry
Hammond in one of his dissertations:
-
"As
for Grotius, I look on my self as concerned to warn young Scholars
to beware of him, lest they suck down Poison when they think they
have found Honey. He has by perverse Expositions and
Interpretations in his Annotations on the Bible, corrupter many
Texts of Scripture .. Dr. Hammond has borrowed most of his Nations
from Grotius (especially his apocalyptical ones) whoever compares
them will quickly discern."
"All millenarians in the same strand as Mede shared
Mather's scathing sentiments, because Grotius, Hammond and later the
puritan pastor Richard Baxter provided the strongest and most sustained
opposition against a millennarian eschatology." (Heaven and earth,
p. 150)
"Katherine Firth describes their interpretation as a
"New Way," which solicited repeated responses from those who contained
to follow Mede."
"Most shocking and revolting to nearly all
seventeenth-century Protestants was Grotius' denial in 1640 that the
papacy was the Antichrist."
8/26/10:
-
Hyper/Critical - From Inside:
: Jason
Bradfield of RCM:
An Apology to the Public Regarding Full Preterism
(2010)
The online Preterist
community is an embarrassment on many levels. And by "preterism", i am
referring to full preterism.. i am preaching against myself as
well.
-
About
the only thing preterists are dogmatic on is that "Jesus already
came."
-
"...if it isn't enough to make me rethink the foundations of
preterism, it at least makes me want to disassociate myself from
it."
-
"I
have heard often that a systematic approach would "destroy"
preterism. Now, because i have always been pro-systematic, i would
just respond by saying, "No, that's nuts. It has to be systematized.
But now i wonder, "maybe that's the problem...it can't." If you've
been paying any attention at all to the discussion forums involving
preterists, you will see nothing but one crazy disjointed claim
after another."
-
"It's
kinda like that game Jenga. 54 wood blocks are placed in a tin can,
all nice and neat, to form a "tower". The can is then lifted. Each
player takes a turn removing a block from the tower and then places
that block on the top to balance things. Eventually, someone is
going to remove a piece that topples the whole thing and thereby
loses the game. Some pieces can be moved with little notice. Some
blocks are more important though, upon which these seemingly less
significant ones rest. But even these less significant blocks will
eventually fall as well, when the foundation is constantly picked
at. It's all connected.
-
Oh, we're "reforming" alright. Reforming
the WHOLE kit and caboodle! Heck, we have practically toppled the
whole of Christianity and are playing with a different set of
blocks! And what have we constructed thus far? "Well, we know Jesus
came back. That will be our foundation block...now lets build on top
of that. The rest of this stuff...well...let's just converse
about it."
-
HyP
Response 3: "When things like this happen, I feel--not outrage or
anger, but just a profound sense of sadness and loss. I felt the
same way with Roderick, Brian, Todd, Sharon and others who have
drifted from the what I understand the Scriptures to teach. If Sam
and Jason both announced tomorrow that they were returning to FULLER
futurism, I would not be angry at either or them---there is a cost
and a price that each of us pays in taking a stand for our
convictions. But I would feel like there had been a death in the
family...it is simply a profound sense of sadness and loss, that is
the only way to describe it. I cannot remain unaffected."
-
HyP Response 2: "His message is lost in his
rhetoric. If the same message had come without the attacks on people
and groups, I would have been the first one lining up to praise
Jason. Instead it came off as just another one of Jason’s rants
against various people that all of us have seen and most of us have
been the subject of. "
-
HyP Response 1: "What
an arrogant pitty party - nothing else. "
-
Former HyP Response: "I DO
happen to agree with what he was saying because much of what he
talked about is part of the reason I left full preterism too. So no,
I'm not offended by what he said because it happens to be the truth.
As much as I don't like to hear it, I must face up to the facts."
8/21/10:
Eusebius "When, then, we see what was of old foretold for
the nations fulfilled in our day, and when the lamentation and wailing that
was predicted for the Jews, and the burning of the Temple and its utter
desolation, can also be seen even now to have occurred according to the
prediction, surely we must also agree that the King who was prophesied, the
Christ of God, has come, since the signs of His coming have been shewn in
each instance I have treated to have been clearly fulfilled."
8/20/10:
-
Kenneth Gentry:
Hyper
Preterism: Its History and Heresy - An Interview with Dr. Kenneth L.
Gentry, Jr. on hyper-preterism.
-
Mike Loomis Interview of John Noe ..good
programming with "Preterist Idealist" John Noe. Kudos to Mike Loomis.
- "Some Preterists advocate an
AD30
arrival, with Jesus' anointing in the Jordan River"
-
AD30 Arrival:
"Crucifixion" (1834) It figures the pre-destruction of Jerusalem with
its desolation to come.
"Destruction of Jerusalem" by John Martin
pics sent by
Dany Larrivée
8/19/10:
-
Henry Cowles:
The "Premillennial Advent of Christ"
"This phrase, taken to
mean that the second personal advent of Christ is premillennial,
represents a system of opinions respecting yet unfulfilled prophecy, and
also respecting the nature and design of the present Christian
dispensation, which is widely at variance with the views presented in
this and the preceding volumes on the Old Testament prophets. The
somewhat extensive prevalence of these opinions and the enterprise with
which they are advocated seem to demand for them a special discussion."
- Hyper Critical - From Outside:
http://preteristheresy.blogspot.com/ "Preterist Heresy" is online
again. Focusing on the "Preterist Heresy" line between Bible and bananas
(crazy). // "Saying you are a Berean because you are a Preterist does
not make you one. A Berean is not someone who has arrived, but one who
continues searching and testing all things."
-
Robert Townley -
Fourth of July Address:
8/18/10:
-
Heinrich Meyer:
Critical and Exegetical
Commentary on the New Testament (16 vo. 1832-1859) ADDED PDFs:
MATTHEW
| MARK - LUKE
| JOHN |
ACTS |
ROMANS
|
I &
II CORINTHIANS |
GALATIANS |
EPHESIANS |
PHILIPPIANS-COLOSSIANS-PHILEMON
-
Preterist Idealism: F.B. Meyer -
Joshua and the Land of Promise
(1893 PDF)
"There is, then, a special inner meaning in the Book of Joshua, which
cannot be exhausted when we have learned from it the story of the
extermination of the Canaanites ; of the partition and settlement of
Canaan ; and of the noble simplicity and military exploits of Joshua.
It is impossible to suppose that so much space should have been given to
the record of these, unless there had been some deep and holy purpose -
similar to that which has given such minute directions for Levitical
sacrifice, each of which contained some deep spiritual truth required
for the growth of holy souls throughout the ages. Of the Book of
Joshua, as of the Paschal Lamb and the Passage of the Red Sea, it may be
said "All these things happened unto them for ensamples."
"What if Earth
Be but the shadow of Heaven - and things therein
Each to other like, more than on earth is thought!" Milton
8/17/10:
-
The Significance of Covenant Theology in Reformed Eschatology
Because they are so used to listening to the latest dispensational
prophecy seminars, most evangelicals are disappointed and baffled when
they hear that the last days and most chapters of Revelation encompass
the period between the two comings of Jesus Christ, and not the
seven-year tribulation period.
8/15/10:
8/14/10:
-
Hyper Critical - From Inside:
Don Preston - Kurt Simmons Debate
Where was sin defeated? AD 70 at the fall of Jerusalem.
or AD 33 at the Cross? "The cross has vanished from
Don’s soteriology. " // "This is the long and short of Don’s teaching:
nothing happened at the cross."
-
Hyper Critical - From Outside:
Mitchell Dick -
A
Defense of the Orthodox View of the Second Coming of Christ - A Response
to the teachings of Full Preterism (2003)
"But if Full Preterism is arbitrary and prejudiced in its
interpretation, it also falls prey to the criticism of being arbitrary
and also inconsistent and in its hermeneutic."
-
Thomas Ice:
Why Sacrifices in the
Millennium (2007)
"The
presence and purpose of millennial sacrifices neither diminish the
finished work of Christ, nor violates the literal interpretation of
these prophetic passages. Nothing in Ezekiel 40-48 conflicts with
the death of Christ or New Testament teaching at any point. The supposed
contradictions between a literal understanding of Ezekiel and New
Testament doctrine evaporate when examined
specifically and harmonized. Although there will be millennial
sacrifices, the focus of all worship will remain on the person and work
of the Savior."
-
Hyper Critical - From Inside:
David Curtis: The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved: Who Wrote the Fourth
Gospel?
(2007)
"At the end of the Fourth Gospel Jesus is talking to
Peter and tells him what kind of death he would experience. In response
to this: Peter, turning around, saw
the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also
had leaned back on His breast at the supper, and said, "Lord, who is the
one who betrays You?" 21 Peter therefore
seeing him said to Jesus, "Lord, and what about this man?"
(John
21:20-21 NASB). Jesus tells Peter how he is going to die
and Peter’s response is, “What about Lazarus”? As soon as the topic
became death, who did Peter’s mind turn to? Lazarus!
Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I
come, what is that to you? You follow Me!"
(John
21:22 NASB) This is a preteristic verse. Jesus is saying, If I
want Lazarus to live until I come what is that to you. Would Jesus say
this if His coming was thousands of years away?
-
Hyper Critical - From Inside:
Kurt Simmons:
Who Wrote the Fourth Gospel? "In
these twelve short pages we have marshaled by
a small portion of the evidence demonstrating that John, the son of
Zebedee was the author of the fourth gospel. Novel ideas placing
authorship in Lazarus are without merit and should
be rejected."
-
AD70 Novels:
John Prescott -
Not One Stone Upon Another (2009) "In A.D. 66, Palestine rebelled
against the authority and arrogance of oppressive Roman rule. Unlikely
as it was, and impossible as it was to succeed, it happened. In the
spring of A.D. 70, Titus Vespasianus, son of Vespasian, the emperor of
Rome, marched to Jerusalem with his legions to reestablish Roman control
over the city. Titus came to the city and found an old friend who was no
longer his friend. His name was Simon Gioras, and he led the Zealots,
the implacable opponents of Rome. Two men, once friends, are caught up
in changing times and loyalties. The war changed them both; forever. It
may have destroyed them both. Not one Stone Upon Another is a novel and
a story of that struggle that changed the history not only of two
friends, but of the Jewish people, and therefore the world."
-
AD70 Novels:
Noleka Yvonne Bunn -
Foreshadow of Desolation: O' Jerusalem (2005) This is a story about
Jesus' prophecy for the city of Jerusalem, the greedy Procurator, the
rebellion of the Zealots and the war that was considered one of the most
bloody and horrendous wars in history. Our story is seen through the
eyes of Joshua, Shadrack and Hannah who survive the Jerusalem holocaust.
This is a story of survival, sharing, heroic acts, heartache, love and
forgiveness as commanded by Jesus.
8/13/10:
"I now say further that
the seven trumpets signify the judgments of God poured forth upon the Jews
in Jewry, for refusing and persecuting the Gospel. "
-
Herbert Thorndike Study
Archive - ONE OF THE ALL-TIME PRETERIST GREATS! First generation
Modern Preterist, opposing the Historicist systems of Protestant England
while Canon of Westminster
"He asserted that the main scope and drift of the Apocalypse was to foretell
the conversion of the Roman Empire to Christianity, the climax being reached
with the coming of Constantine, followed by the Millennium (interpreted in a
spiritual sense)"
-
Lloyd Gaston:
No stone on
another (1970) "If Jesus was speaking of a concrete
event, the reference can only be to Pilate's attempt to introduce Roman
standards into the temple area, and accordingly the original saying must
have been "when you see the ensign of sacrilege, flee to the mountain."
(..the idolatrous standards
of the approaching Roman army,
Beasley-Murray,
Jesus and the Future, pp. 255ff. He supports his thesis by
the reading of syrsin and the analysis of Merx, Das
Evangelium Matthaus, 1902, pp. 341ff. (p. 27)
8/12/10:
-
Charles Dickens Study
Archive - Was an admirer of the Hyper-Preterism of Former Full
Preterist P.S. Desprez
-
HyP
website "Preterist Alliance" :
Definition of "Hyper
Preterism (AKA
–
Pantelism, Preterist Universalism,
Preterist Universal Annihilationism) – The view that all
things were accomplished in relation to 70AD where all or most
statements of “salvation” or “eternity” relate to the quality of life
for the believer, or escape from the physical/temporal judgment of
70AD. Some of the variants of this view claim that after 70AD either
all people are free from sin, including evildoers, thus sending everyone
to heaven, or that there is no afterlife spoken of in the Bible, thereby
causing all Biblical references to “eternity” or “salvation” to be
nothing more than temporal references to life while on this planet, and
future generations of living people and their quality of life. In this
view, either all people go to heaven or all people go to a non-existent
state at death."
http://preteristalliance.org/preterism/hyper-preterism/
Updated:
Proponents of this view teach
a variety of variations of Full or Partial Preterism which the
majority of Preterists reject or consider abberant. Some of the
views espoused within this framework include the following:
1. That all things were
accomplished in relation to AD70 and that the Bible contains no
actual modern day application, other than general insights or
historical reflection.
2. That all or most statements of “salvation” or “eternity” in the
Bible relate to the quality of life for the believer, or escape from
the physical/temporal judgment of AD70, and do not deal with the
afterlife in any way.
3. That after AD70 people are universally free from sin, including
evildoers, thus sending everyone to heaven.
4. That there is no afterlife spoken of in the Bible, thereby
causing all Biblical references to “eternity” or “salvation” to be
nothing more than temporal references to life while on this planet,
and future generations of living people and their quality of life
(called “generational salvation”).
5. That all conciousness ceases at physical death for all people,
whether they are in Christ, or not.
6. There is no continuation of “charismatic gifts” of any kind
after AD70, nor is there any indewlling of the Holy Spirit.
7. That the Bible is primarily a teaching tool only, good during
the individual life of a believer, and for future generations of
living people, and may help society as a whole in practical and
tangible ways to mature and advance throughout history.
Typical proponents of these
views are universalists, universal annihilationists (generational
salvation proponents), pantelists, and universal cessationalists
(the belief that all Spirital gifts and dwelling of the Holy Spirit
has ceased). Many Hyper Preterists also consider themselves to be
liberal skeptics or scholars, proponents of higher criticism, or
even open theists, modalists, new age mystics, or unitarians. While
many proponents of this view are quite similar in their beliefs to
atheists, they still maintain a general belief in God and in the
historical figure of Jesus Christ.
8/10/10:
HUGE DISCOVERY! MOST IMPORTANT BOOK POSTED HERE ALL YEAR.
On Ludovicus de Alcazar "Combining great learning with an
amiable character and uncommon generosit and charity, he was universally
beloved in his native town, Seville, where he lived the greater part of his
life." (Biographical Dictionary of the
Society for the diffusion of useful knowledge)
8/9/10:
-
Whew. Fixed about 1,000
broken links! (Out of 65,000). Thanks for your patience with dead
links... please email me if you care to share your finds. todd @
preteristarchive.com
-
Pretblogging:
Davidpfield.com - Updated blog // .doc files:
8/8/10:
-
Andrew
Perriman -
Narrative-realism, Preterism, and the relevance of
scripture "Can anyone help me out with a bit of theological jargon
and terminology that I’m trying to get my head around? I’ve been reading
a fair bit of the articles on
Open Source Theology
and I keep coming up against, what many of their authors call the
‘narrative-historical argument’ or the ‘narrative-realist’ approach.
Andrew Perriman, one of the
authors, even describes himself as doing ‘biblical theology after
Christendom in a narrative-realist mode’. In reading the various
articles however this narrative-realism seems to sound a whole lot like
classic preterism.
My question for all the budding theologians out there is what is the
difference between the two (preterism and the narrative-realist
approach)? Or are they pretty much the same thing – in which case this
narrative-realist approach is not really all that new. Help me please…"
-
Frederic W. Farrar "Quando ?
The date at which the Epistle was written cannot be fixed
with precision. All that we can say is that it was certainly written before
the Fall of Jerusalem, A.D. 70. This conclusion is not mainly founded on the
use of the present tense in speaking of the Temple services (ix. 6, 7; x. 1,
&c), because this might conceivably be due to the same figure of speech
which accounts for the use of the present tense in speaking of the Jewish
ministrations in Josephus, Clemens Romanus, Justin Martyr, and even in the
Talmud. It is founded on the whole scope of the argument. No one who was
capable of writing the Epistle to the Hebrews at all (there being no
question of pseudonymity in this instance) could possibly have
foregone all mention of the tremendous corroboration—nay, the absolutely
demonstrative force—which had been added to his arguments by the work of God
in History. The destruction of Jerusalem came as a divine comment on all the
truths which are here set forth. While it in no way derogates from the
permanent value of the Epistle as a possession for all time, it would have
rendered superfluous its immediate aim and object. The seductions of
Judaism, the temptation to apostatise to the Mosaic system, were done away
with by that awful Advent which for ever closed the era of the Old
Dispensation. We therefore infer that the Epistle was written when Timothy
was (apparently) liberated from prison, soon after the martyrdom of St Paul,
about the close of A.D. 67 or the beginning of A.D. 68." (Epistle
to the Hebrews, 29)
-
Catherine Rolfson:
Lusting After The Apocalypse
(2005) "Barbara Rossing is one Christian scholar
who isn't afraid to admit it. "The Rapture is a racket," she accuses
unapologetically in her 2004 book The Rapture Exposed. In this
bold study, Rossing outlines how the theology of the Left Behind
series represents a very real danger because of its promotion of
ethnocentric mentalities, irresponsible environmental ethics and a
militaristic political agenda in America. The most disturbing example she gives is in
the realm of Middle East politics. Premillennial dispensationalists
believe that the Bible names the rebuilding of Israel as a necessary
precursor for Christ's return. So was born an American fundamentalist
movement known as Christian Zionism, which unilaterally supports the
expansion of the modern state of Israel. This alliance between Christian
and Jewish Zionists is deeply ambivalent, however, as the former also
believes that Christ will not return until the great suffering of Israel
and the eventual conversion of his chosen people. Besides their obvious
offensiveness to Jews, Rossing points out that such groups look forward
to "tribulation and war in the Middle East, not peace plans."
8/8/10:
"Christ came at the destruction of Jerusalem." Mal Couch (1997,
Introductory Thoughts)
8/7/10:
AD70 as template:
"He was then
on the Mount of Olives ; beneath Him there lay the metropolis of Judea, with
the Temple in full sight; the towers and the walls of Jerusalem flashing
back the brightness of an Oriental sky. The Redeemer knew that she was
doomed, and therefore with tears He pronounced her coming fate : "The days
shall come that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and shall not
leave in thee one stone upon another." These words, which rang the funeral
knell of Jerusalem, tell out in our ears this day a solemn lesson ; they
tell us that in the history of nations, and also, it may be, in the personal
history of individuals, there are three times—a time of grace, a time of
blindness, and a time of judgment .
"Therefore, let us know the day of our visitation. It is
not the day of refinement, nor of political liberty, nor of advancing
intellect. We must go again in the old, old way; we must return to
simpler manners and to a purer life. We want more faith, more love. The
life of Christ and the death of Christ must be made the law of our life.
Reject that, and we reject our own salvation ; and, in rejecting that,
we bring on in" rapid steps, for the nation and for ourselves, the day
of judgment and of ruin."
Seit der Zerstörung des jüdischen Tempels in Jerusalem durch die Römer im
Jahre 70 n. Chr. leben die Juden in der Diaspora, also verteilt in aller
Welt. Die Hoffnung auf einen eigenen Staat geben sie jedoch nie auf.
FREE ONLINE GERMAN-LANGUAGE
BOOKS
8/7/10:
-
Apocalyptic
Spirituality (1979) Treatises and letters of
Lactantius, Adso of
Montier-en-Der, Joachim of Fiore, the Franciscan spirituals, Savonarola
"The Seventh Book of the Divine Institutes of Lactantius was written at
the time of Constantine's recognition of the Church. It is both a
summary of early Christian beliefs about the Antichrist and the
millennial age, as well as a witness to the changes brought about in
Christian apocalypticism through contact with other religions."
-
Apocalypse: Ferrel Jenkins:
An Introduction to the Book of Revelation (1973)
-
C. H. Spurgeon:
Israel and Britain: A Note of Warning (1885) "They went so far as to
crucify him, and cried as they did so, "His blood be on us, and our
children," words so sadly verified when Jerusalem was destroyed, and her
children slaughtered, sold as slaves, or scattered to the four corners of
the earth. It was indeed, a terrible blindness which happened unto Israel.
But although this blindness was a punishment for former sin, it was itself
a sin. They willfully rejected the testimony of God against themselves;
they refused the self-evident Christ who would so greatly have blessed
them. This wilful rejection was carried out so effectually that it became
impossible to convert and heal them; they could not be instructed, or
reformed, and therefore they were given over to destruction. Nothing
remained but to allow the Romans to burn the temple and plough the site of
the city. It was a dreadful thing that they should deliberately choose
destruction, and obstinately involve themselves in the most tremendous of
woes. Poor Israel, we pity thee! It was sad indeed to fall from so great a
height! Yet we are bound to admit that God dealt with thee justly, for
thou didst choose thine own delusions. The Lord cries, "Oh that my people
had harkened unto me."
-
Martin Luther:
Lutheran Eschatology
"We can learn from Luther that
history is not redemptive and neither is technology or natural
science. The problem of man is man and this problem is not solved by
avoiding the issue. Luther escaped utopianism because he saw the focus
of man's problem in man, not in his environment. It is his lasting
contribution to have juxtaposed justification and eschatology in such a
manner as to avoid both despair and illusion."
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS:
Dom Prosper Guéranger:
The Destruction of Jerusalem
(1841) "Whilst the abominations of desolation, foretold by Daniel, was
thus standing in the holy place, (St. Matt. xxiv. 15.) John of Grischala
saw that the Zealots were too stupefied by the feastings to cause him
any further alarm. He fell on the city, like a bird of prey, there to
find the necessary provisions; and out of hatred for Simon, he destroyed
by fire all he could not carry away. Simon, instead of quenching the
fire, extended it in every part where John was likely to pass, hoping,
by this means, to deprive the Galileans of all further victualling.
Immense stores of corn and other provisions had been amassed by the
Jewish leaders, as a necessary resource in case of a future siege; but
all were now destroyed by these two men, who were greater enemies to
their country than were the Romans themselves. Thus was spent the year
69 — a year of respite, which Rome, torn as she was by factions of her
own, was compelled to allow, and which might have been of such
incalculable benefit to the Jews."
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS:
Thomas Paine
- An Examination of the Prophecies
(1807) Attempts
using "Non-occurrence of Prophecy"
explanations
8/6/10:
-
Josephus Audio Files
-
Wayne
Jackson -
What Is the Meaning of “Shortly Come to Pass”?
(2004)
-
Calibrating the Year of the 2nd Temple's Destruction
Maimonides wrote in his Responsa (responsum
# 389) that
the date in which we traditionally reckon the 2nd Temple's destruction
is the year which preceded the 380th year of the Seleucid Era,
otherwise known as the Year of Alexander (a date which corresponds to
anno69 CE). This means the destruction of the Temple fell out
in the month
of Av in 68 CE. The dating of 70 CE, on the other hand, is widely used
by the Christian world to reckon the year of destruction. This treatise
will prove the accuracy of the Jewish tradition.
-
David Vaughn Elliott:
Nobody Left
Behind (2004) http://www.nobodyleftbehind.net/contents.html
"Nobody Left Behind"
examines modern-day theories of end-time prophecies in the light of
clear Bible teaching. It helps the reader distinguish truth from
theory by looking at Bible verses in context. While "Nobody Left
Behind" is partly a reaction to the popular "Left Behind" novels by
Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, it is much more than that. It offers a
detailed study of the historical fulfillment of some of the most
exciting prophecies in Scripture: the destruction of Jerusalem and
its temple in A.D. 70, the rise of the Antichrist, and the arrival
of God's kingdom on earth, among others. To the extent that "Nobody
Left Behind" is a critique of the popular "Left Behind" novels, it
is based on several sources. Mr. Elliott has examined the colorful
fold-out chart, "A Visual Guide to the Left Behind Series," which
gives LaHaye and Jenkins' brief outline of Revelation, showing where
each novel of the series fits in. More importantly, Mr. Elliott
carefully considered Tim LaHaye’s newest Revelation commentary,
"Revelation Unveiled." This updated edition of LaHaye's commentary
appeared in 1999, and it was offered, as expressed on the back
cover, as "The biblical foundation for the best-selling Left Behind
series." In addition, Mr. Elliott digested novel #1 of the series,
"Left Behind, A Novel of the Earth’s Last Days," which introduces
most of the leading characters and issues. He has also read #2 of
the series, "Tribulation Force." Reading the remaining novels is
unnecessary. Tim LaHaye’s Revelation commentary is a more important
source for critiquing the novels than the novels themselves.
"Nobody Left Behind"
respectfully examines the claimed biblical foundation for the "Left
Behind" series. This "foundation" is a view of Bible prophecy called
futurism, a view which teaches that the great bulk of Bible
prophecies have not yet been fulfilled but rather are awaiting
fulfillment any day now. Mr. Elliott's critique is thus not just an
examination of one set of novels but rather an examination of the
entire view of Bible prophecy that underlies those novels.
"Nobody Left Behind"
offers 334 pages of compelling biblical and historical evidence that
various "end-time" prophecies have actually already been wonderfully
fulfilled. This alternative view, commonly called the historical
view or historicism, was the most popular view among Bible believers
for several centuries before the twentieth century. However, times
have changed, and many Bible believers today are not even aware that
the views set forth in the "Left Behind" series are relatively new.
If you desire a
greater understanding of God's prophetic Word, "Nobody Left Behind"
is for you. If you are looking for prophecy studies that are in
depth yet easy to understand, "Nobody Left Behind" is your book of
choice. If you want to find out if the "Left Behind" novels are true
to the Bible, "Nobody Left Behind" will offer you the facts for
making your decision. If you are seeking a book on Bible prophecy
that will open your eyes to historical reality all the while
enriching your faith, "Nobody Left Behind: Insight into 'End-Time'
Prophecies" is the book you should read.
The book is
well-documented, includes quotations from ancient Christian and
Jewish writers, offers extensive Scripture and subject indexes, and
contains attractive illustrations and detailed charts to aid the
reader.
8/5/10:
-
Mal Couch -
Introductory Thoughts on Allegorical
Interpretation and the Book of Revelation (1997) "There
are many comings of Christ. Christ came in the flesh as a mediatorial
Presence. Christ came at the destruction of
Jerusalem. Christ
came, a spiritual Presence, when the Holy Ghost was given. Christ comes
now in every signal manifestation of redeeming power. Any great
reformation of morals and religion is a coming of Christ. A great
revolution, like a thunderstorm, violently sweeping away evil to make
way for the good, is a coming of Christ."
-
Catholic
Preterism Study Archive -
Pope Benedict XVI: 'The judgment announced
by the Lord Jesus refers above all to the destruction of Jerusalem in
the year 70.'
-
Milton S. Terry:
The Consummation of the pre-Messianic Age (1898) "Some writers find such a
crisis or end in the crucifixion of Jesus, and the moment when he said, "It
is finished." (tetelestai). Others say it was at the resurrection; some few
designate the ascension; but many have taught that the outpouring of the
Spirit on the day of Pentecost was the coming of Christ in his kingdom, the
end of the old and the beginning o the new age. To all of these theories
there are two insuperable objections:"
-
Latest
Study Archive:
Hermann Reimarus
- Deist On the Return of Christ
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS:
Matthew Tindal -
Christianity is as Old as the Creation
(1730) "If most of the Apostles, upon what Motives soever, were mistaken
in a Matter of this Consequence, how can we be certain, that any One of
them may not be mistaken in any other Matter ? If they were not inspir'd
in what they faid in their Writings concerning the then Coming of
Christ; how cou'd they be inspir'd in those Arguments they build on a
Foundation far from being so ?" (p. 262)
-
John Donne's Second Sermon - Page 62 (1624) - Preached at St.
Paul's, upon Easter Day, in the evening, 1624, on Revelation 20:6 (No.
19 in LXXX Sermons)
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS
/ Foreign:
Hugo
Grotius -
Annotations on the New Testament (1641-45 Latin) First
Scholar of Reputation to Openly Embrace Systematic Preterist Eschatology
(Fixed dead PDF link)
8/4/10:
-
Latest
Study Archive:
Francis Nigel Lee:
Author of
The Anti-Preterist Historicism of John Calvin and
the Westminster Standards (2000)
"Finally Jesus then stated: "Truly, I tell you this generation shall not
pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Matthew 24:34. It is true
that "within fifty years, the city was destroyed and the temple was
rased" Calvin concedes to preterism. But then he also comments,
historicistically, that "the same evils were perpetrated in
uninterrupted succession for many ages afterwards.... The apostles
endured the same things which we see in the present day [A.D. 1555-63].
And yet, it was not the design of Christ to promise to His followers
that their calamities would be terminated within a short time. For then,
He would have contradicted Himself having previously warned them that
the end was not yet!"
Author of:
Jerusalem; Rome; Revelation - John's Apocalypse
Written Before AD70 ;
Revelation Unveiled
-
Critical: David W. Roth -
Knowing the Love of Christ (1998) "To deny the physical bodily resurrection of both Christ or the believer is a departure from the faith"
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS
/ Foreign:
James Stuart Russell
-
La Parusia: La Segunda Venida de Nuestro Senor
(1878)
(Revelation
20:5-10 Still Unfulfilled) "It is evident that the prediction of what
is to take place at the close of a thousand years does not come
within what we have ventured to call ‘apocalyptic limits.’ These
limits, as we are again and again warned in the book itself, are
rigidly confined within a very narrow compass; the things shown
are ‘shortly to come to pass.’ It would have been an
abuse of language to say that the events at the distance of a
thousand years were to come to pass shortly; we are
therefore compelled to regard this prediction as lying outside
the apocalyptic limits altogether.
"We must consequently regard this prediction of the loosing of
Satan, and the events that follow, as still future, and
therefore unfulfilled. We know of nothing recorded in history
which can be adduced as in any way a probably fulfillment of
this prophecy. Wetstein has hazarded the hypothesis that
possibly it may symbolise the Jewish revolt under Barcochebas,
in the reign of Hadrian; but the suggestion is too extravagant
to be entertained for a moment." (523)
(Full
Preterist Millennium "violent and unnatural") "Some interpreters
indeed attempt to get over the difficulty by supposing that the
thousand years, being a symbolic number, may represent a period of
very short duration, and so bring the whole within the prescribed
apocalyptic limits; but this method of interpretation appears to us so violent and unnatural that we cannot hesitate to reject it.
" (p. 514)
8/3/10:
-
Latest Study Archive:
Gregory
Sharpe,
Chaplain
to
King
George III -
"What then are we to understand by the LATTER Or LAST TIMES,
so often mentioned in the Scriptures? Not the end of
the world, but the end of the Jewish state; the times of Messiah, the fulness of
time, or end of the dispensations by revelation from heaven. "
-
Latest Study
Archive:
Benjamin Marshall
"Second Generation Modern Preterist"
A Chronological
Treatise on Daniel's Seventy Weeks
(1725) FREE ONLINE BOOKS
Wherein is evidently shewn the Accomplishment of the Predicted Events,
As Especially Of the Cutting Off of the Messiah after the Predicted VII
Weeks and LXII Weeks, according to the Express Letter of the Prophecy,
and in most exact Agreement with Ptolemy's Canon ; So Also Of the
Destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, in the LXXth, or separate One
Week, in the Litteral, Obvious, and Primary Sense
8/1/10: Baseball season over ; officially
back in the saddle. Winter projects include:
-
Offer books and
articles in foreign languages
-
Open up the vast
offline "Preterist Archive" and post from the 1Tb of
materials available ; perhaps make the best stuff available
on DVD or Flash Drive by Spring
-
Championing the
orthodox preterist studies of
Benjamin Marshall
and
Eusebius/Samuel
Lee,
while showing the limitation of ALL strictly horizontal
views of prophecy.
-
Release new
writings (some completed, some in progress) regarding the
state of preterist studies, highlighting the line between
the Bible and bananas
-
Keeping a
watchful eye on the progressive work of
Kurt Simmons
and on Former Full
Preterists, and on the particularly regressive work
of Hyper
Preterism.
-
Finish updating
all works in the
Hyper Preterism section
by clearly outlining the doctrines within which are unique
to that historically unorthodox view.
-
And, as always,
relentless digging into other holdings (online and in
libraries) for the doctrines of preterist eschatology, as
exemplified throughout the generations
leading up
to, and following, the Cross of Jesus Christ.
7/2/10: Now Available:
The Philip Mauro
Library
....Best
Independent Analysis Yet...
C. Preterist Idealism
This
system was first developed by former Full Preterist
Todd Dennis,
and presented at the first annual “Carlsbad Eschatology
Conference” in 2007 (hosted by Kurt Simmons);
though it integrates elements from Preterism and other systems.
Preterist Idealism teaches that the historical
fulfillment of prophecy constitutes only the “shadows” of an
eternal spiritual substance which believers obtain “in Christ.”
New Testament typology is vertical rather than horizontal; and
meant to point to the higher realties of the Christian life,
rather than foreshadow things to come. Idealism relies heavily
on the allegorical interpretation of prophetic texts.
The system has a small number of
adherents, most of them former Full Preterists.
http://preteristnews.com/2010/04/27/a-brief-survey-of-christian-eschatology/
I would
point out, though, that those "outside of Christ"
likewise receive the eternal spiritual reality... in
their case that which is coming to the rebellious, as pointed out in the
shadows of destruction
Matthew 24:2 = 21:44
|
5/23/10:
-
Sam Frost:
Full Preterism and the Problem of Infinity ~ Reign of Christ "I have been shamelessly accused of almost everything one can think of
for breaking ranks on this issue. I follow no ranks. I am not one to
insist that “no one can leave the compound!” I go where my studies and
my conscience before God leads me, period. I don’t “tow the line” for
anyone, any party, or ...any
movement."
5/12/10:
5/8/10:
-
FREE BOOKS:
John Samuel Thompson:
Christ's Coming in Judgment
(1825)
PDF Here
Added: "This prophecy fixes the time of
Christ's coming before the destruction of the second temple, which
by the Romans under Vespasian, was levelled with the ground."
[One of the clearest early expressions of
Full Preterist Universalism.]
5/7/10:
-
Chris Donato:
You Will Read This (2010) "Since hyper-preterists argue that the NT
posits an imminent return of Christ, they revise their understanding of
the nature of this return (cataclysmic, physical, and renewal of the
cosmos) in order to maintain the integrity of the NT writings (i.e., if
Christ didn't return within a generation of his ascension, then the NT
is fallible, etc.). Here's where Pratt's hermeneutic (outlined in the
previous three posts of this series) comes in: "Even if the New
Testament does predict an imminent return of Christ, intervening
historical contingencies make it unnecessary that an imminent return
take place" (p. 149). Indeed, a first-century expectant Israelite would
know that such an imminent return was not "set in stone." Why? "
-
HISTORIE, DE-, van de deerlyke
distructie ende ondergank der stad Jerusalem. Door den keyzer
Verspasiaen, met veele en verscheidene geschiedenissen der Joden (1732)
"Rare early chapbook edition of the account of the destruction of the
city of Jerusalem, based on "De Bello Judaico" by Flavius Josephus. The
version popular in the Northern Netherlands however, entirely differs
from the version popular in the Southern Netherlands, at least after
1621 when the old version was forbidden in the Southern Netherlands.
After 1621 the version in the Southern Netherlands was titled "De
verderffenisse of destructie van Jerusalem" and edited by the famous
Flemish historian Adriaen van Meerbeeck (1563-1627). In the Northern
Netherlands the old version remained in use, still unexpurgated of wild
anecdotes and curious legends, like Pilatus together with the Jews
defending Jerusalem, and during the siege the starved women ate their
children, and gave Pilatus a quarter of each child to eat. Or the story
that after the Romans had conquered the city, Pilatus was brought to
trial, but all the Jews were slaughtered by the Romans who searched for
gold in their stomachs. The present chapbook is one of the rarest, both
in the Northern and Southern Netherlands."
4/24/10:
Added
This Review By Annals of Literature on:
18th Century
Modern Preterist:
The Hugely Influential George Sharpe,
Chaplain
to
King
George III and "Master" of the famed Temple Church "he
observes that the prophetic writers call the destruction of Jerusalem the
great day of the Lord."
4/15/10:
4/12/10:
-
Jim McClarty
Debates Gary DeMar's Eschatology
"Pastor Jim McClarty of Grace Christian Assembly debated ideas in an
interview with Gary DeMar and Jay Rogers (available on YouTube) on Bible
prophecy and eschatology. Pastor McClarty makes legitimate arguments
against the postmillennial view, and in return, Gary DeMar is equipped
to respond to McClarty in this episode of "The Gary DeMar Show."
4/8/10:
4/7/10:
II. The Background of N.T. Expectation
III. Consistent Eschatology
IV. Realised Eschatology
V. Continental Demythologizing
VI. Salvation-History and the Parousia in the N.T....
See More
VII. The N.T. Insistence on the imminence of the Parousia
VIII. Did the Early church delimit its expectation of the Parousia?
IX. The early church's near Expectation of the Parousia
X. Did Jesus delimit his expectation of the Parousia?
XI. Jesus' near expectation of the Parousia
XII. The Significance of the N.T. imminent expectation of the
Parousia for the life of the church today
-
Boyd Luter -
Brainstorming the Apocalypse
(2010) "I was asked to write a book review for the Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society
on a book by one of
the leaders of their movement. Then, sometime later, I was asked to
write the entry on “Preterism” for the Popular Encyclopedia of
Apologetics, one of the editors of which was my former colleague
and friend, Ergun Caner. Those two assignments allowed me to become
conversant with the quirky claims made by extreme Preterists.
Since that time, however, I have come to call into
question one of my own ongoing assumptions (i.e., something that is not
proven, just taken for granted) about the way biblical eschatology
develops progressively through Scripture that, at first glance, may even
sound somewhat like the Full Preterist viewpoint. However, as you will
soon see, any resemblance is just that: “first glance” and surface only.
I still think the Full Preterist position is completely out in left
field. They have a point in their sense that (an aspect of) Christ’s
“coming” is not back to earth. They lose everything they gain,
though—and a lot more—by trying to say Christ’s coming is only
in judgment, in A.D. 70, and by denying a future literal Second
Coming for Jesus. Their view is a classic example of the danger of a
half-truth (i.e., which is also a “half-falsehood”)
3/28/10:
-
Detroit News: FBI Arrests End-Times Religious Militia "Sources have said the FBI was in the second
day of raids around the southeastern Michigan city of Adrian that are connected
to a militia group, known as the Hutaree, an Adrian-based group whose members
describe themselves as Christian soldiers preparing for the arrival and battle
with the anti-Christ.
3/23/10:
"This is the long and
short of Don’s teaching: nothing happened at the cross." /
"The cross has vanished from Don’s soteriology. "
Bryan Lewis (2010) "I
am among those Preterists who realize that (HyP) Preterism is absolutely not
Orthodox Christianity. It is my opinion, there is no fellowship between the
two now, nor has their ever been historically." (Am
I a Christian?) |
“Unlike many of my
brothers and sisters, I think we must stop trying to fit
Preterism into the neat box of Orthodox Christianity, especially
into the world of Creeds and Confessions. I do not see how true
full preterism (Fulfilled Salvation / no future judgment of all
men, No Future Coming, etc...) could ever peacefully co-exist
with Orthodox Christianity.”
(Quoted in
Heterodox Confessions of Hyperpreterists) |
I've spoken to numerous preterists who agree with the legitimacy of
the concept
of full preterism ceasing its resource-consuming struggle for
acceptance within historical "orthodox" Christianity. //
Due to the increasing dominance of the Apocalyptic Genesis view
that Adam was merely the first covenant man, full
preterism has been noticeably receding from normative
Christianity more and more of late. In our opinion,
this is a very good thing for both full preterism and
Christianity. It is also a good thing for the preterist
movement, which has been humming along quite well for over 2,000
years apart from the teaching that ALL Bible prophecy was
fulfilled by AD70. As much as I admire the
view for its consistency, it is obviously way outside of the
lines due to the resurrection issue alone, not to mention the
destruction of the devil, the end of the sin, and the myriad ill
consequences of "AD70 Dispensationalism".
3/10/10:
3/9/10:
-
Internal Criticism of
Full Preterism Kurt Simmons: Why I have Decided to
Discontinue All Association with Planet Preterist (2007) "When I
first became active in the area of eschatology, I was asked to
participate as a columnist at Planet Preterist. I accepted and, for a
time, enjoyed the ability to post articles there at will. However, I
have since come to feel that Planet Preterist is an irresponsible forum
that is used to promote unbiblical doctrines, including post-Modernism,
Emergent church theology, and Universalism, to name but a few. Despite
its ostensible purpose to promote Preterist interpretation of scripture,
it has probably done more to injure Preterism than help it by allowing
Preterism to become associated with so many unbiblical, irresponsible,
and just plain "flakey" doctrines. I do not feel in good conscience that
I can have my name associated with Planet Preterist as a columnist. I do
not agree with what is taught or promoted there, and do not want to
appear to condone it by lending it my name. This has been a difficult
decision for me, but I feel it is the right one, particularly in light
of the present crisis regarding Universalism. Therefore, please remove
my name from the list of columnists."
http://planetpreterist.com/modules.php?name=Search&query=&topic=13
2/21/10:
2/20/10:
-
John S.
Evans
The Prophecies of Daniel 2
(2008) "The position that I hold with regard to Revelation 20 puts me at
odds with full preterism, which associates the "thousand years" with the
forty years from AD 30 to 70. That a thousand years can be equated to a
mere forty even in such to be a great challenge, and it is tempting to
dismiss such an idea as patent nonsense.
. . Nevertheless, it must be recognized at the outset that
equating the "thousand years" to only forty years stretches the
metaphorical elasticity of Revelation beyond limits of credibility
for most serious students of the Bible. Furthermore, the challenge faced
by FPs becomes even greater when it is recognized that their millennium"
is EVEN SHORTER THAN FORTY YEARS because
it begins AFTER AD30 and ENDS BEFORE AD70." (Pages 168-170)
-
DSS: Pre-Christian
Preterism -
The Dead Sea scrolls: Voice of Reason (2010) "One popular
conspiracy theory held that the Catholic scholars who did the initial
analysis of the scrolls kept their conclusion secret because it
challenged the Christian faith. Mr Vermes, who was close to that
research effort, finds good reason to criticise it for slowness and
carelessness—but no ground to assert a conspiracy. Nor does he accept
oversimplified theories that directly link the community which gave rise
to the scrolls with the advent of Christianity. The manuscripts are
relevant to the study of Christian beginnings, but they are not the
whole story."
Did You Know that Preterist Theology is over 2,000 Years Old?
The
Olivet Discourse of Jesus and various writings among the
Dead Sea Scrolls
testify to the extremely old age of preterist theology.
Christianity has long held that numerous prophecies were
fulfilled at the arrival of John the Baptist and the birth of Jesus Christ
(as well as in the later ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus).
This is Historical Preterism,
and is a general Christian view dating back to the time (now over 2,000
years ago) when the first witnesses began to spread the good news of the
promised redemption in the birth of a son. The more specific
eschatology of historical Christian preterism was first popularized a
while later in the ministry of Jesus, Who outlined numerous OT prophecies to be
revealed in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem.
As old as these forms of preterism are, however, there
are much earlier forms of this end times scenario to be found among the Dead
Sea Scrolls. They are Jewish counterparts to Christian preterism,
all of which share the same fundamental view of prophetic fulfillment in a
cataclysmic war between the Jewish State and Rome (known as the
"Romano-Judean Eschaton").
Investigation into the eschatology of the Dead Sea
Scrolls has revealed a number of texts loaded with first century
apocalyptic expectation. Numerous pre-Christian writers presented
roughly similar theological
worldviews expecting the outbreak of the horrific events which became reality in AD70.
As the threat of Roman domination grew in the first century B.C., seers
began to present an eschatology which portrayed Rome as the invader of
Jerusalem. Intense religious zeal poured out in a number of
apocalyptic texts outlining the arrival of the end times:
The Roman Empire is identified as the great apocalyptic
beast numerous times, using designations such as "Babylon", and
"Kittim" to represent Rome.
The Romans are, at times, explicitly mentioned:
2/19/10:
-
Wayne
Jackson -
Did the Law of Moses Continue until AD70?
"Though
the redemptive element of the Mosaic law was abrogated at the cross, the
civil aspect of the regime continued on until A.D. 70, when the complete
destruction of the Hebrew system of jurisprudence was implemented by the
Lord. God sent “his armies” and brought down the last element of the
former politico-religious economy (Matthew 22:7). The system as a whole
was removed incrementally."
-
PreteristARTchive:
Biblical Art: End of the Age |
Jerusalem Artwork |
Titus Artwork
-
Audio: John Weaver (2002)
Sermon: Who is Israel? - Listen to Weaver pull it all together, as
usual. "If all you have are the externals, then you have nothing;
everything is in Jesus Christ." //
Ken Gentry Audio Sermons //
Steve Gregg Audio
2/18/10:
-
Hyper/Regressive:
Rivers of Eden - "Sound logic would
demand that you be able to produce substantial evidence that such is the
case, otherwise my simple assertion that only "the houses of Isreal and
Judah" were the benefactors of the "new covenant" is the only plausible
interpretation of Jeremiah 31:31. Jesus plainly stated that he was "sent
ONLY to the lost sheep of ISRAEL" (Matthew 15:24). Are the
implications of this text any less clear than those of any of the time
statements? " (This view would probably be
considered hyper preterism by a large percentage of HyPs)
-
Former Full Preterists: PretBlog - Another former full
preterist speaks (2010) "A
little more than a year ago I gradually shifted from partial preterism
to full preterism, but over last summer I gradually shifted back into
partial preterism, because of various difficulties I had with full
preterism (most notably fitting the “thousand years” into the 40-years,
and the nature of the resurrection)."
-
HyP reaction: "I wouldn't blame
him for retreating to the safety of numbers while he resolves his
doubts. And it certainly doesn't give more credence to the former view
he held either. If he hasn't seen that the perfection of the 1,000 yrs
is a period whereby the perfect number 10 is multiplied 3 times (another
perfect number), to refer to a unknown period of time in which God is
working all things spoken to its fulfillment, well perhaps he hasn't
considered it beyond the literal scope. Such literalism does tend to
create a stumbling stone that encourages blindness. Faith would help
cure that for him."
2/16/10:
-
Bejamin Netanyahu claims Ezekiel 37's Vision of "Dry Bones" Has Been
Fulfilled "Speaking on the recent 65th anniversary of the
liberation of the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz in Poland,
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu proclaimed the fulfillment of
the prophet Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones. Netanyahu
said, "Armed with the Jewish spirit, the justice of man, and the vision
of the prophets, we sprouted new branches and grew deep roots. Dry bones
became covered with flesh, a spirit filled them, and they lived and
stood on their own feet."
2/12/10:
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS/Modern
Preterism: UPDATE: Author writes to
say he is a Modern Preterist!
Alvin Miller -
God Against Us: Alien Spaceman Jesus, the World Trade Center Attack and
More (2010)
-
"I should note that because I
take a preterist perspective, I place less emphasis on seeing the
events that occurred with the First Resurrection exactly duplicated
on Judgment Day. For example, Nero was clearly the Antichrist for
A.D. 70, but I don’t necessarily expect to see a new Antichrist
prior to the Second Coming. If forced to, one could select from many
twentieth century candidates. Similarly, I don’t expect to see the
coming events occurring at the actual Jerusalem this time. I predict
in Chapter Four they will more likely begin in one of the advanced
Western nations."
-
"Postmillennialism is also
sometimes referred to as preterism, which implies that the text is
allowed to speak without exegesis. Thus, when Jesus repeatedly
predicts the Kingdom within a generation, I do not write off the
statement as a mistake or excess of enthusiasm. Instead, I draw up a
timetable that shows the Kingdom beginning a generation after the
Crucifixion. Then, when John of Patmos says the Millennium starts at
this date of the beginning of the Kingdom, I duly go to my chart (at
the end of this chapter) and set the Thousand Year Clock ticking.
There was in fact a specific date a generation after the Crucifixion
– the pivotal date of A.D. 70. This was the historical date of the
Fall of Jerusalem, which is not a particularly prominent date in
more mainstream discussions. This is the date of the First
Resurrection in the terminology of John of Patmos that begins the
Millennium."
2/11/10:
New 18th Century
Modern Preterist:
The Hugely Influential George Sharpe,
Chaplain
to
King
George III and "Master" of the famed Temple Church
2/11/10:
-
HyP
website "Preterist Alliance" :
Definition of "Hyper
Preterism (AKA
–
Pantelism, Preterist Universalism,
Preterist Universal Annihilationism) – The view that all
things were accomplished in relation to 70AD where all or most
statements of “salvation” or “eternity” relate to the quality of life
for the believer, or escape from the physical/temporal judgment of
70AD. Some of the variants of this view claim that after 70AD either
all people are free from sin, including evildoers, thus sending everyone
to heaven, or that there is no afterlife spoken of in the Bible, thereby
causing all Biblical references to “eternity” or “salvation” to be
nothing more than temporal references to life while on this planet, and
future generations of living people and their quality of life. In this
view, either all people go to heaven or all people go to a non-existent
state at death."
http://preteristalliance.org/preterism/hyper-preterism/
Proponents of this view teach a variety of variations of Full or Partial
Preterism which the majority of Preterists reject or consider abberant.
Some of the views espoused within this framework include the following:
1. That all things were accomplished in relation to AD70 and that the
Bible contains no actual modern day application, other than general
insights or historical reflection.
2. That all or most statements of “salvation” or “eternity” in the
Bible relate to the quality of life for the believer, or escape from the
physical/temporal judgment of AD70, and do not deal with the afterlife
in any way.
3. That after AD70 people are universally free from sin, including
evildoers, thus sending everyone to heaven.
4. That there is no afterlife spoken of in the Bible, thereby causing
all Biblical references to “eternity” or “salvation” to be nothing more
than temporal references to life while on this planet, and future
generations of living people and their quality of life (called
“generational salvation”).
5. That all conciousness ceases at physical death for all people,
whether they are in Christ, or not.
6. There is no continuation of “charismatic gifts” of any kind after
AD70, nor is there any indewlling of the Holy Spirit.
7. That the Bible is primarily a teaching tool only, good during the
individual life of a believer, and for future generations of living
people, and may help society as a whole in practical and tangible ways
to mature and advance throughout history.
Typical proponents of these views are universalists, universal
annihilationists (generational salvation proponents), pantelists, and
universal cessationalists (the belief that all Spirital gifts and
dwelling of the Holy Spirit has ceased). Many Hyper Preterists also
consider themselves to be liberal skeptics or scholars, proponents of
higher criticism, or even open theists, modalists, new age mystics, or
unitarians. While many proponents of this view are quite similar in
their beliefs to atheists, they still maintain a general belief in God
and in the historical figure of Jesus Christ.
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS:
Martin Luther:
A Sermon on the Destruction of Jerusalem (1525) "The
Lord, however, saw deeper into the future than they when he said: 0,
Jerusalem! if thou hadst known what I know, thou wouldst seek thy peace.
Peace in the Scriptures means, when all things go well with us. You now
think you have pleasant days, but if you knew how your enemies will
encamp round about you, compass you about and hedge you in on every
side, crush you to the ground and demolish all your beautiful buildings,
and leave not one stone upon another; you would eagerly accept the Word,
which brings to you solid peace and every blessing. [The woeful history
of the destruction of Jerusalem you can read in books, from which those
who wish will easily understand this Gospel.]"
-
German Books:
Dr. W. Hoffman -
Judea Capta ober die Belagerung und Zerstorung Jerusalems (1858 PDF)
// Julius Kossarski -
Titus ober die Zerstorung Jerusalems (1855 PDF) - Dramatic play
2/10/10:
"Eichorn's
Latin commentary, following a suggestion of
Herder, interprets the
Book of
Revelation as a dramatic poem, in the style of
Hebrew
Apocalyptics,
depicting the events of the
historical fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 68-69"
2/8/10:
-
At CZ Website:
Bible Predicted Drought after Destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 "When
scientists revealed in 2008 that an analysis of rings on stalagmite from
a cave near Jerusalem showed the climate of the region got drier shortly
after the Roman dispersion of the Jews in A.D. 70, it was no surprise to
Rabbi Menachem Kohen of Brooklyn."
"Rabbi Kohen wrote that the land suffered an unprecedented, severe and
inexplicable (by anything other than supernatural explanations) drought
that lasted from the first century until the 20th – a period of 1,800
years coinciding with the forced dispersion of the Jews."
"Kohen saw the cataclysm as a
miraculous fulfillment of prophecy found in the book of Deuteronomy –
especially chapter 28:23-24.
“And thy heaven that is over thy
head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
2/7/10:
2/1/10:
1/28/10:
A FULLY PRETERIST TAKE ON DANIEL'S
SEVENTY WEEKS FROM 1725!
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS:
Benjamin Marshall -
A Chronological Treatise upon the Seventy Weeks of
Daniel (1725)
Wherein is evidently shewn the Accomplishment of the Predicted Events,
As Especially Of the Cutting Off of the Messiah after the Predicted VII
Weeks and LXII Weeks, according to the Express Letter of the Prophecy,
and in most exact Agreement with Ptolemy's Canon ; So Also Of the
Destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, in the LXXth, or separate One
Week, in the Litteral, Obvious, and Primary Sense
-
Former Full Preterists:
Sharon Nichols:
The Greening of Eschatology (2010) An updated Review of HyP book
"House Divided" from a Former Full Pret "As
a Hyper-Preterist (HP), when “House Divided” was first
released, I wrote a glowing review of the book and posted it on
Amazon.com. I’ve since renounced HP, removed the review from Amazon and
have begun reading the two books with the “new” eyes of an Ex-Hyper-Preterist.
As I began to compare one of Mr. Green’s chapter’s in “House
Divided”, “If Preterism is True”, against Dr. Hill’s
chapter in “WSTTB?”, “Eschatology in the Wake of Jerusalem’s
Fall”, I did not get far before I discovered some issues in Mr.
Green’s chapter worthy of comment."
1/24/10:
-
Latest credible Osama bin Laden release: 1/24/10 "The Osama bin
Laden audio message released to Al-Jazeera on 24 January 2010 contains
specific language used by bin Laden in his statements in advance of
attacks," IntelCenter said in a statement. He warned the United
States that, "God willing, our attacks against you will continue as
long as you maintain your support to Israel."
1/20/10:
1/19/10:
-
George
Wesley Buchanan:
The Book of Revelation: Its Introduction and
Prophecy (1993) Professor George
Buchanan's methodology of intertextuality places the biblical text
opposite all of its sources, so as to provide a more comprehensive study
of Scripture
-
Tom
Holland:
Contours of Pauline Theology
"Section Two – Passover and Community Chapter 5 The Paschal
Community and the Body of Sin / Chapter 6 The Paschal Community and the
Eschatological Marriage / Chapter 7 The Paschal Community and Baptism
1/18/10:
-
Samuel Lee Study Archive: LeRoy E. Froom
(1946)
"The projection of the Preterist view into the discussion in 1830, by
Samuel Lee
(1783-1852) - noted Orientalist and professor of Arabic and of Hebrew at
Cambridge [One of the most profound linguists of his time and 'master of 18
languages,' he held various churchly posts and was author of numerous
books], and rector of Barley, Hertfordshire (later canon of Bristol) --
brought the three post-Reformation schools of interpretation again into
definite conflict -- the Historicist, Futurist, and Preterist.
Preterism had become well-nigh dominant in the rationalistic universities of
Germany. And now the noted linguist, Lee, under whom Wolff studied at
Cambridge, espoused it. His
Events and Times of the Visions of
Daniel and St. John, first published in 1830 (in
seminal form only, TD), is strictly
Preterist; that is, all the specifications of Daniel and the Apocalypse were
allegedly fulfilled in the downfall of pagan Rome and the overthrow of
Jewry.
"A general resume must suffice: Lee
builds nearly everything around the seventy weeks of Daniel 9, not as a
definite chronological term but as an indefinite period. He makes the
three and a half times of Daniel 7 coincident with the last of Daniel's
seventy mystical weeks, and comprehends within it the two catastrophes -
first the fall of Jerusalem and the reprobate Jewish nation, and then the
heathen Roman as God's instrument for desolating Jerusalem. So the
three and a half times is the last half of Daniel's seventieth week. [1851
ed., pp. 69,70]
"In the Apocalypse the seals,
trumpets, and vials are synchronous, according to Lee, and are compassed in
this elastic seventieth week - the fourth seal referring to Jerusalem's fall
in the middle of the week, the fifth to the pagan persecutions.
The trumpets likewise depict the fall of the Jews. The witnesses
testify in the first three and a half days of the seventieth week, and are
assailed in the latter three and a half days by the heathen Roman power, the
beast from the abyss. Christ is the child of the church of Revelation
12, and the persecution of the beast of Revelation 13 is under heathen Rome,
from Domitian to Diocletian inclusive.
"Thus the devil is loosed for a little
season, Lee holds, as is depicted by the sixth trumpet - the hour, day ,
month, and year being the same as the three and a half times. Finally,
the compassing of the beloved city and the destruction of Satan and his
hosts signify the fall of the pagan Roman power with the apocalyptic new
heavens and earth, the Christian church after Constantine. So the
1,000 years constitute "the apostolic period." Such was Lee's strange
and yet familiar Preterist view of prophecy, which was as yet shared by
relatively few in Britain." (Prophetic
Faith of our Fathers Vol. 3, p. 596-597)
1/19/10:
-
Walid Shoebat -
An
organization that cries out for the Justice of Israel and the Jewish
people. "There is a new Premillennialist idea going
around that anti-dispensationalists need to be aware of.
(According to this idea,) Islam is the beast." -
Born in Bethlehem of Judea, Walid's grandfather was the Muslim
chieftain of Beit Sahour-Bethlehem and a friend of Haj-Ameen Al-Husseni,
the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and notorious friend of Adolf Hitler.
1/16/10:
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS:
Alvin Miller -
God Against Us: Alien Spaceman Jesus, the World Trade Center Attack and
More (2010) Online version of 1986 booklet WEIRD ESCHATOLOGY:
AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW OF THE SECOND COMING
Haven't seen enough to judge if it should be classified as
Modern Preterism
or Hyper Preterism.
If you have a chance to read it, please lemme know what you think.
(UPDATE: Author writes to say he is a Modern Preterist! yay)
-
"I should note that because I
take a preterist perspective, I place less emphasis on seeing the
events that occurred with the First Resurrection exactly duplicated
on Judgment Day. For example, Nero was clearly the Antichrist for
A.D. 70, but I don’t necessarily expect to see a new Antichrist
prior to the Second Coming. If forced to, one could select from many
twentieth century candidates. Similarly, I don’t expect to see the
coming events occurring at the actual Jerusalem this time. I predict
in Chapter Four they will more likely begin in one of the advanced
Western nations."
-
"Postmillennialism is also
sometimes referred to as preterism, which implies that the text is
allowed to speak without exegesis. Thus, when Jesus repeatedly
predicts the Kingdom within a generation, I do not write off the
statement as a mistake or excess of enthusiasm. Instead, I draw up a
timetable that shows the Kingdom beginning a generation after the
Crucifixion. Then, when John of Patmos says the Millennium starts at
this date of the beginning of the Kingdom, I duly go to my chart (at
the end of this chapter) and set the Thousand Year Clock ticking.
There was in fact a specific date a generation after the Crucifixion
– the pivotal date of A.D. 70. This was the historical date of the
Fall of Jerusalem, which is not a particularly prominent date in
more mainstream discussions. This is the date of the First
Resurrection in the terminology of John of Patmos that begins the
Millennium."
1/15/10:
-
Stan Cox:
A Refutation of the AD70 Doctrine, in three parts (2010) "The
doctrine is not popular. It has very few disciples.
However, those who believe this doctrine are often vocal,
enthused and insistent. In congregations of God’s people where
it has gained a foothold, it has led to division and ruin. It
is worthy of our examination and refutation."
-
Josephus the Zionist - Haaretz - Israel News Josephus the
Zionist -News and commentary relating to events in Israel, the
occupied territories, and the world, along with an archive of
past issues
1/11/10:
-
Hyper/Regressive:
(Warning: Outside Link to HyP website)
Larry's Vision for Preterism:(http://deathisdefeated.ning.com/forum/topics/shooting-the-breeze-in-sams?commentId=2362512:Comment:19258&xg_source=activity)
Admission by Full Preterist that "'Preterism"
(as HyP is called within) "may sound a bit cultish" -
"I believe that Preterism is
the essence of what the revealed nature of God's "eternal purpose" was
meant to convey and that the local expressions of Preterism (churches)
will represent that essence in every aspect. While such a statement may
sound a bit "cultish" the reality is that there is only one "truth" and
that conflicting theological views may continue to remain within the
boundaries of established "orthodoxy" none will represent the fullness
and completeness of God's redemptive plan as does Preterism."
(Thank, you Larry Siegle. It is
a huge relief - and step in the right direction - to admit that there
are legitimate grounds for others to believe that HyP sounds cultish.
Especially in light of later rhetoric:
-
"Futurism is not okay. Churches that teach and practice doctrine
that affirms futurism are not okay. Why? Because what they
believe, teach and practice leads down a dark pathway of
constant waiting and disappointment. It renders these churches
powerless to be the expression of Christianity that God
intended. It is a lie and one that rejects the Bible and
therefore false. Something false to the core ought to be
uprooted and cast into the fire." // "I will settle for nothing
less than total victory"
-
"It is only a matter of time before believers who are convinced
of the truth (of "AD70
Dispensationalism" TD)
will realize
that an Internet-based "movement" is not sufficient to have a
balanced theology apart from the tangible practical outgrowth in
the form of a church. Nobody wants to start another
denomination. However, it is impossible to accomplish certain
tasks such as ordination, education, and practical ministry
without an organizational framework. Within the next decade we
will begin to see more people moving in this direction. History
teaches that a "movement" evolves into something else
eventually." (I
encourage Larry and other HyPs to abandon the "denomination"
idea, for everybody's good. The "Resurrection
Past" doctrine is not merely a "conflicting theological view" of
established Christianity.. but, rather, it is a complete
overthrow thereof. The two cannot occupy the same space,
obviously, and there will never be close fellowship between the
Christian Church and such a theological enemy. TD)
1/10/10:
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS:
Chester Charlton McCown -
THE PROMISE OF HIS
COMING: A Historical Interpretation and Revaluation of the Idea of the
Second Advent (1921) "In A.
D. 66 the inevitable happened. Pure repression without constructive
statesmanship worked its customary result. Goaded by a series of
tactless, incompetent, or cruel and rapacious procurators, the people
put their theology to the test. The limit of endurance had been reached;
God must intervene to save his people. Popular sentiment swept even many
of the Pharisees into the great revolt against Rome. It would seem that
the terrible defeat which the nation suffered, the destruction of the
city and Temple and the cessation of the sacrifices, would have
convinced the most bigoted that the political type of messianic hope was
entirely mistaken. No doubt many did learn the lesson. Yet a generation
later the Jews of the Diaspora rose against Rome—and were savagely
punished. Again, after another short generation,
under an adventurer who called himself Bar-Cochba, "son of the star,"
and who was hailed by the great Rabbi Akiba as messiah, there came
another Jewish revolt, as bitter and as severely punished as that of
66-70."
1/9/10
1/8/10:
-
Added to
Facebook Page:
Israeli Prof. Deciphers Earliest Hebrew Text It is the earliest
known Hebrew writing, dating to David's reign in the 10th century B.C. -
"This text is a social statement, relating to slaves, widows and
orphans" (Text reflects Idealist Judaism)
-
"The present inscription
provides social elements similar to those found in the biblical
prophecies and [are] very different from the prophecies written by
other cultures postulating glorification of the gods and taking care
of their physical needs"
-
Prof. Galil also said the
artifact proves that Hebrew was a written language as early as the
10th century B.C. and may mean that portions of the Old Testament
were written centuries earlier than scholars generally believe.
1: You shall not do [it], but
worship the [Lord].
2: Judge the sla[ve] and the wid[ow], judge the orph[an]
3: [and] the stranger. [Pl]ead for he infant / plead for the po[or and]
4: the widow. Rehabilitate [the poor] at the hands of the king.
5: Protect the po[or and] the slave / [supp]ort the stranger.
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS:
Robert Walker:
The truth of Christianity proved from ancient prophecies
(1834)
CHAPTER IV.
ANCIENT PROPHECIES FORETELLING THE
DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM.
In
treating of the prophecies which relate to the final
destruction of Jerusalem, I would first draw the reader's
attention to the 28th chapter of the hook of Deuteronomy, in
which is an eminent instance of God's merciful kindness, when
the prophets are commanded to declare God's judgments against
the rebellious, in providing them with previous gracious
promises towards the obedient, and with compassionate offers of
favour and pardon to those who, although they have strayed, are
willing to repent and return.
1/4/10:
-
Preterist Scholars:
George Stanhope, Dean of Canterbury, Taught an "AD70 Coming" in 1705
-
FREE ONLINE BOOKS:
George Stanhope -
A
Paraphrase and Comment on the Epistles and Gospels (1705) "For this
ambiguous manner our Lord's expressing himself, some of the Disciples
imagined, that St. John should never die, but he found among those that
shall be alive at Christ's Second Coming. Whereas, in Truth, those words of
Jesus imply no such matter foretel, that that Disciple should survive the
Destruction of Jerusalem ; which is probably believed to be called our
Lord's Coming (as a most eminent Judgment, and instance of his Truth and
Power) in sundry places of the New Testament." (A paraphrase and comment
upon the Epistle and Gospels, vol. 1., p. 262)
-
Barbara Rossing:
The Rapture Exposed: Hope in the Message of Revelation (2004)
1/3/10:
-
Significance of A.D. 30:
G.L.
Stone -
The Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy
or, All true prophecy
terminated in the advent of Christ and the establishment of Christianity
(1855) The argument of
Mr. Stone proceeds somewhat on the
principles of prophetical interpretation adopted by the late
Dr. Samuel Lee.
Mr. Stone states that the learned Professor was more indebted to
Calvin for
his views than he appeared to be aware of; and that
Grotius and
Hammond,
Bossuet and
Calmet, also " immensely helped towards the same conclusion." (The Journal of Sacred Literature, Vol. II, 1856, p. 467)
-
Preterist Universalism:
Max King admitted his acceptance of Universalism to Ward Fenley:
"Obviously if according to Ward in his interview with Sam and Jason that
Max has admitted his acceptance of Universalism to Ward face to face
there is no doubt where he now stands."
-
(Full Preterist) Sam
(Frost)'s view of "all in Adam" does indeed logically conclude with
universal redemption. And if this is Max's view in CP (I am not
saying it is or it isn't, but if it is) then it is completely
understandable why it led him to universalism."
(http://deathisdefeated.ning.com/profiles/blogs/is-the-body-of-christ-no)
1/1/10:
Vermes Claims 1st Century Reference to Jesus is Genuine
WHATSNEW
1996-97-98-99-00-01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10-11-12-13-14-15
||
GUESTBOOK |
ARTCHIVE
|
Charles Schultz Says:
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia."
The (New) History of Full Preterism (Part Two) (Big .WMV File)
Significance of AD70 |
AD30
| AD135
| AD312 |
AD79
The Best Eschatology is a
Proper Christology
Administrative:
Simple Classification and Color Schemes Given to Distinguish Between Forms
of Fulfillment Eschatology:
Futurism (F) - (No Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 & Revelation in 1st
C. - Types of Future Events Only) | |
Historical Preterism
(HP) -
(Minor
Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation in Past) |
|
Modern Preterism (MP) -
(Major Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation
in Past) | |
|
Hyper Preterism
(HyP)
- (Absolute Fulfillment of all Bible prophecy - Full Preterism
and "Resurrection Past" Teachings; Full Preterism is
systematized Hyper Preterism - All Full Preterism is Hyper
Preterism, but not all Hyper Preterism is Full Preterism.) |
AD70 is awesome! ..when used as a template of how
Jesus has worked, is working, and will work. When seen as a single
working 2,000 years ago... not so much.
2010-2011 PRETERIST STUDIES:
FIGHTING FOR SUPREMACY: AD30/33 VS. AD68/70
(AND DON'T FORGET AD
312 or
135 or
79)
Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones
"Christ is fulfilling the law on the
cross, and unless you interpret the cross, and Christ's death upon it, in
strict terms of the fulfilling of the law you have not the scriptural view
of the death upon the cross." (Studies in the Sermon on the Mount, p.
168) /
AD70 Resurrection Fundamentally Different
Kurt Simmons: Covenant Eschatology is "a dangerous system of theology"
"This is the long and
short of Don’s teaching: nothing happened at the cross." /
"The cross has vanished from Don’s soteriology. "
"The Cross
vs. AD70"
John MacArthur (2007) “But let me tell
you something, folks, as wacky as that world of Dispensational eschatology
is, it is no more wacky than the interpretation of many Amillennialists
whose fictional eisegesis reads everything into 70 A.D., and I’ve read that
kind of stuff and it’s just as crazy.” (Millennial Manifesto Chapter 9)
Anonymous 17th Century
Writer on Luke 23:31 ("For if they do these things in a green tree, what
shall be done in the dry?") "If I myself being true and innocent
must yet by ye righteous dispensation of my father suffer these things from
ye Romans, What yon must your wicked citty and nation expect to suffer from
ye same hands?"
Origen
(248) “We do not deny, then, that the purificatory fire and the destruction
of the world took place in order that evil might be swept away, and all
things be renewed; for we assert that we have learned these things from the
sacred books of the prophets…And anyone who likes may convict this statement
of falsehood, if it be not the case that the whole Jewish nation was
overthrown within one single generation after Jesus had undergone these
sufferings at their hands. For forty and two years, I think after the date
of the crucifixion of Jesus, did the destruction of Jerusalem take place.” (Contra
Celsum, IV, xxi-xxii; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. IV, p. 505, 506.)
E.W Bullinger "No one can read Matt. xxiv. 30 with Rev.
vi. 12-17 without seeing that they speak of the same event. The actual
Advent of Christ is deferred, in Rev. vi., because it is to form a separate
and special description by itself in chap. xix. The sixth Seal does not
therefore include the visible appearing of the Son of man, though it is
remarkable that, while (in A3) in Rev. vi. 13 we have the simile of a Fig
Tree, and the sealing of the elect of Israel (vii. 1-8); so, in Matt. xxiv.
31 we have the gathering of the elect of Israel, and in verses 32, 33 we
have the simile of the Fig Tree again. The Lord concludes this special
prophecy of the Tribulation by adding "Verily, I say unto you, this
generation shall not pass, till all these things begin to take place." Not
"fulfilled." The word is (...) (genetai) from (...) (ginomai)
to begin to be, to come to be,* and is quite different from (...) (pleroo),
to fulfil. In Luke xxi. 32, which is the parallel passage, we have
the former word, fulfilled. What the Lord really said was "this
generation shall not pass till all these things begin to happen." And
they did begin to take place during that very generation; for the
period immediately following the Lord's death was marked by many coming and
saying "I am Christ." But in order that we might clearly understand, Christ
immediately adds, "The end is not yet" (Matt. xxiv. 6)."
Robert H. Gundry - “The
novelty of an eschatological view requires that evidence put forward in its
favor be weightier than usual since it is unlikely that saintly and learned
scholars or the mass of pious Christians should for centuries have
misconstrued the teaching of Scripture on so important a point as the
blessed hope. On the other hand, the antiquity of a view weighs in its
favor, especially when that antiquity reaches back to the apostolic age.
For those who received their doctrine first-hand from the apostles and from
those who heard them stood in a better position to judge what was apostolic
doctrine than we who are many centuries removed” (The Church
and The Tribulation, Zondervan Publishing, pg. 172).
"Near" /
"close" /
"at hand" in the Old Testament
My righteousness is near; My salvation went out; and My arms shall judge
peoples; coastlands shall wait on Me, and they shall hope on My arm. (Isa
51:5 LITV)
Vengeance and retribution belong to Me; in due time their foot will slip;
for the day of their calamity is near, and the things prepared are hurrying
for them. (Deu 32:35 LITV)
Alas for the day! For the day of Jehovah is at hand. And it shall come as a
destruction from the Almighty. (Joe 1:15 LITV)
Blow a ram's horn in Zion, and shout an alarm in My holy mountain. Let all
those living in the land tremble. For the day of Jehovah approaches; it is
near, (Joe 2:1 LITV)
For the day of Jehovah is near on all the nations: As you have done, it
shall be done to you; your reward shall return on your head! (Oba 1:15 LITV)
Derek Daschke:
City of Ruins:
Mourning the Destruction of Jerusalem Through Jewish Apocalypse (2010)
Reader Comments: "Todd,
awhile ago I asked you if you believed some people were still under Adam's
sin and death and you said yes if they are not in Christ. This is where I
draw the line between those who do not know what they are talking about." // "Thank you
brother. You have so much helped me. I was stuck in full preterism for a
year and was excommunicated from a reformed baptist congregation. I could
see the fallacy of its view but couldn't in good conscience accept the
partial view either. You have helped so much, thank you. May the Lord
bless!" (10/28/10) //
The Philip Mauro Library - 60 titles on one CD
//
The 27 Sieges of Jerusalem //
Theology Explained
Philip Mauro "The apostle then
proceeds to declare that, notwithstanding the seeming delay, and
notwithstanding the confident assertions to the contrary of the scoffers of
the last days, "the day of the Lord will come" (v. 10); and moreover
he proceeds to tell how it will come, and also what will happen
when it does come. First be it observed that the apostle
speaks of the coming of Christ and the coming of the day of the
Lord as one and the same thing. It is utterly impossible therefore, that
a period of a thousand years should intervene between the coming of the Lord
Jesus Christ and "the day of the Lord." This makes pre-millennialism of the
current type (which is practically the same as that held by the Jew of
Christ's day) an impossibility." (Hope of Israel, ch. 12)
King James I (1588) "Of all the Scriptures, the buik of
the Reuelatioun is maist meit for this our last age.. Iudge yif this
be not ye tyme quhairof this place that I have maide chois of doeth meane,
and sa ye dew tyme for the reueiling of this prophecie." (Ane fuitfull
Meditatioun contening ane plane and facill exposition of ye 7,8,9 and 10
versis of the 20 Chap. of the Reuelatioun - Edinburgh)
Christopher Love (1653)
"It was the great mistake of Origen, though hee holds for the coming of
Christ againe, that he pleades for the coming of Christ in spirit, therefore
the Text where it is said, you shall see the Sonne of Man coming in the
Clouds of Heaven, Origen understands by the Cloudes, to bee the Saints,
because it is mentioned in Scripture, that the Beleevers are a cloud of
witnesses. Now this is to pervert the whole letter of the Bible and
turne all the Scripture into an Allegory and Metaphoricall sense.. I
onely mention this to confute those that follow the conceit of Origen,
meerly to make Christs coming to be but a spiritual coming, a coming in the
hearts of Saints." (Penitent Pardoned, p. 175)-
Charles Kassel - "In no historic occurrence, perhaps, has
the Christian world discovered so plainly the hand of Providence as in that
tragic spectacle which has appealed so strongly to the imaginations of
theologians - the destruction of Jerusalem and the burning of the Temple: a
spectacle well calculated to inspire awe, in view of its appalling
proportions, its dire consequences to the Israelitish people its nearness in
time to the event which has cast so deep a shadow over the whole field of
theologic thought - the Crucifixion!" "In the death-grapple between
monotheistic Judea and polytheistic Rome all this splendor became a memory
and a tale!" (The Fall of the Temple :
A Study in the History of Dogma)
Charles Merivale - "The most soul-stirring struggle in
all ancient history." "The overthrow of Judea, with all the monuments of
ancient but still living civilization, was the greatest crime of the
conquering republic. It was commenced in wanton aggression and was
effected with a barbarity of which no other example occurs in the records of
civilization." (Romans Under the Empire, Vol. 7, Chapter 59, p. 251)
Philip Schaff - "history records no other instance of
such obstinate resistance, such desperate bravery and contempt of death."
"Thus, therefore, must one of the best Roman emperors execute the
long-threatened judgment of God ; and the most learned Jew of his time
describe it and thereby, without will or knowing it, bear testimony to the
truth of the prophecy and the divinity of Jesus Christ, the rejection of
whom brought all this and the subsequent misfortunes upon the apostate
race." (History, Vol. 1, pp. 379, 397)
Lactantius - "But
he also opened to them all things which were about to happen, which Peter
and Paul preached at Rome ; and this preaching being written for the sake of
remembrance became permanent, in which they both declared other wonderful
things, and also said that it was about to come to pass, that after a short
time God would send against them a king who would subdue the Jews, and level
their cities to the ground, and besiege the people themselves, worn out with
hunger and thirst. Then it should come to pass that they should feed on the
bodies of their own children, and consume one another. Lastly that they
should be taken captive, and come into the hands of their enemies, and
should see their wives most cruelly harassed before their eyes, their
virgins ravished and polluted, their sons torn in pieces, their little ones
dashed to the ground; and lastly, everything laid waster with fire and
sword, the captives banished forever from their own lands, because they had
exalted over the well-beloved and most approved Son of God." (Divine
Institutes, IV, 21)
Emperor Titus "God
co-operates with us. -- Their miseries, by your valor and God's
assistance, are multiplied. Their factions, famine, siege, and the
falling of their walls without a battery, do they not manifest that
God is angry with them, and assists us?" (Jewish Wars, l. vi. c. 1.
5.)
Charles Dickens
(1854) "And finally, the
Rev. Mr. Desprez
has replied to Dr. Cummings Apocalyptic Sketches in a volume called
the Apocalypse Fulfilled, remarkable for the moderation and
modesty of suggestion with which the subject is treated" (Narrative
of Literature and Art, p. 215)
12/2009 Sam Frost changes his
Isaiah 65 theology:
"With that stated, and with a now firm conviction
that Isaiah 65 has been entirely fulfilled (thanks Mike, Dave), I still
see no logical reason for the extension of the effects of fulfillment
(and neither do they) in the here and now in terms of bettering our
world, our environment, and our heritage and goverments."
http://preterismdebate.ning.com/profiles/blogs/eclectic-preterism?xg_source=activity
Former Full Preterist Vince Krivda:
Typological Illustration of My Eschatological View (2009) "I
recently announced that I have supplemented my eschatological view. This
is an introductory survey my view, but by no means the whole picture. I
do not attempt to persuade anyone, nor endeavor to formulate a radically
new system. There are many points that I have not included here. I will
address them as the Lord permits over the next few months. The themes I
will address as I get the time may include Covenant Theology, the curse
and total depravity, definite atonement, redemption of the curse, etc.
These themes among others were what prompted me to reconsider my
eschatological views."
Comments: Vince K. "I would
go back to FP if I am directed there by Scripture, but once the mind
expanded, it can never go back to its original form. That is was true of my
embrace of FP, and it is also true of my new position."
Kathleen Kenyon - "The city of Herod
the Great and Herod Agrippa was brutally destroyed and devastated after the
capture of Jerusalem by Titus in A.D. 70, and its ruins still further
overturned by the Hadrianic building operations of the second century A.D.
Our excavations have shown that with the exception of a few of the public
buildings, quite literally scarcely one stone stands on another." ("Digging
Up Jerusalem" London: Ernest Benn, 1974) pp. 236-37.
New 18th Century
Modern Preterist:
The Hugely Influential
Gregory Sharpe,
Chaplain
to
King
George III and "Master" of the famed Temple Church
Samuel
Taylor Coleridge
George Ripley on Samuel
Taylor Coleridge - "He also conceived an epic poem on the destruction of
Jerusalem, a subject which would interest all Christendom as the siege of
Troy interested Greece." ("The American Cyclopaedia") : Coleridge: "I Have
already told you that in my opinion the destruction of Jerusalem is the only
subject now left for an epic poem of the highest kind. Yet, with all its
great capabilities, it has this one grand defect—that, whereas a poem, to be
epic, must have a personal interest,—in the destruction of Jerusalem no
genius or skill could possibly preserve the interest for the hero from being
merged in the interest for the event. The fact is, the event itself is too
sublime and overwhelming." (September 4, 1833.)
Progressive Eschatology: "English
Christians burning churches, defacing tombs and graves of the death,
destroying the monuments of Christianity, and in fine cutting the throats of
English Christians, all the while that they were ruining the whore of Babel,
and cutting antichrist's throat." - Herbert Thorndike, first generation
Modern Preterist, opposing the Historicist systems of Protestant England -
"He asserted that the main scope and drift of the Apocalypse was to foretell
the conversion of the Roman Empire to Christianity, the climax being reached
with the coming of Constantine, followed by the Millennium (interpreted in a
spiritual sense)" David Brady
Moses Stuart, the Father
of Biblical Science in America: "The fact is,
that our Saviour had frequently and solemnly admonished his disciples
respecting such a war, and plainly and definitely predicted the issue of the
contest, Matt. xxiv. At the same time, he had strictly charged them to flee
from the country, whenever the Roman invasion should take place. Can there
be any reasonable doubt that Christian in general obeyed this injunction? On
every ground we may presume that this was speedily done, after Vespasian had
marched his overwhelming army into the region of Galilee, early in the
Spring of A.D. 67." (Apocalypse,
2nd th., p. 487)
Cornelius A. Lapide
"But," continues Cornelius a Lapide, "Alcazar (a very celebrated
interpreter) in his method refers this passage to the Primitive Church :
hence by the man-child he understands the Roman Church. ' Romano enim
Pontifici data est a Christo VIRGA FERREA, qua regat omnes gentes
Christianismo subditas.'"
Was
Flavius Josephus
Familiar with the
Apocalypse of John? “it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem
was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one
faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases
may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of divine justice.”
Dr. Mal Couch "How can the covenant allegorists and
preterist guys be so foolish as to deny the obvious! It is clear that
one of the key components of the Abrahamic covenant is the promise of
the "Land of Israel" in perpetuity!" (Biblical
Connection)
"The truth is, if the different comings of Christ are distinguished, as
they ought to be, we shall find, that the apostles have spoken of each
of them according to truth ; and that the opinion which infidels are so
eager in maintaining, and which some Christians have unadvisedly
espoused, to the great discredit of the inspiration of the apostles, as
if they believed the day of judgment was to happen in their lifetime,
hath not the least foundation in Scripture."
James MacKnight
N.T. Wright
"The church expected certain events
to happen within a generation, and happen they did, though there must
have been moments between AD30 and AD70 when some wondered if they
would, and in consequence took up the Jewish language of delay.
Jerusalem fell; the good news of Jesus, and the kingdom of
Israel’s god was announced in Rome, as well as in Jerusalem and Athens.
But there is no sign of dismay, in any literature that has come
down to us from the periord after AD70, at the fact that Jesus himself
had still not returned. Clement looks forward to the
return of Jesus himself without any comment on timing.
Ignatius is worried about many things but not that.
Justin Martyr in the middle of the second century is as emphatic
as anyone that the event will happen." (New Testament and People of God,
pg. 463)
Rabbi Ari Enkin "It is customary
recite a preliminary chapter of Tehillim before reciting the birkat hamazon
after meals. On weekdays, the general custom is to recite chapter 137, "Al
Naharot Bavel", which is intended to remind us of the destruction of
Jerusalem and the current exile. The Zohar states that one who derives
pleasure from bread and enjoys the taste of foods is required to remember
the Holy Land and the Beit Hamikdash after every meal. On
Shabbat, and other festive days when such sobering thoughts are not
appropriate, chapter 126, "Shir Hama'alot", is recited instead which speaks
about the future redemption. Some also recite "Shir Hama'alot" when in
the presence of a special guest. These Tehillim should be recited before
washing one's hands at the end of the meal ("mayim achronim")."
Eusebius on Rome as "Babylon" "Clement
in the eighth book of his Hypotyposes gives this account, and with him
agrees the bishop of Hierapolis named Papias. And Peter makes mention of
Mark in his first epistle which they say that he wrote in Rome itself, as is
indicated by him, when he calls the city, by a figure, Babylon, as he does
in the following words: "The church that is at Babylon, elected together
with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son."
Ecclesiastical History
2.15.1-2)
"It is no
exaggeration to say that the Fall of Jerusalem is the most significant national
event in the history of the world." B.F.
Dunelm, p.9
Origen on the coming of Christ:
"He comes every day with great power to the mind of
the believer in the clouds of prophecy, that is, in the Scriptures of the
Prophets and the Apostles, who utter the word of God with a meaning above
human nature. Also we say that to those who understand He comes with great
glory, and that this is the mole seen in the second coming of the Word which
is to the perfect. And so it may be, that all which the three Evangelists
have said concerning Christ's coming, if carefully compared together and
thoroughly examined would be found to apply to His continual daily coming in
His body, which is the Church, of which coming He said in another place,
Hereafter shall you see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the
power of God, and coming in the clouds of heaven, excepting those places in
which He promises that His last coming in His own person."
(Aquinas Catena Matt. 24:30)
"Our purpose in editing
the texts has been to present all the decrees of the councils and only
the decrees. For this reason some very important texts have had to be
omitted, for example the anathemas against Origen formerly
attributed (erroneously) to Constantinople II, or the charges
on which pope Honorius was condemned (as these relate to the acts, not
the decrees, of Constantinople III), or the profession of faith of pope
Hormisdas which was a condition of admittance required of the council
fathers at Constantinople IV, but does not appear to have been formally
approved by the council." (Decrees of the ecumenical councils,
1990)
Roger Pearse "Now I
was under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that the Council of
Constantinople held by Justinian had condemned Origenism, and
perhaps anathematised Origen himself, depending on some
text-critical questions. To pronounce a man anathema 300 years
after he died in the peace of the church, and died moreover from the
effects of torture in confessing Christ, would be morally wrong of
course."
MoGrace2u "TODAY is the day of salvation.
Judgment comes at the end of this life for those who fail to avail
themselves beforehand of what will save them from perdition - in that day
when they bow before the Lord. A real warning and a real hope gives a man a
real choice to make - now. Because now there is grace and mercy and
forgiveness and no condemnation to face for those who call upon the Lord."
The (New) History of Full Preterism (Part Two) (Big .WMV File) |
A
Dictionary of the Writers on the Prophecies (1835 PDF) |
Works Relating to Jews
in the New York Library (1914 PDF) |
Fulfilled Prophecy Bibliography
| All PDF Book Files
Ken Gentry "I would also point out that I have re-titled
the Appendix on hyper-preterism in that I greatly expand my critique in
order to include exegetical as well as theological concerns regarding this
aberrant movement. Though this heterodox movement continues to grow, signs
are appearing that it may be coming apart at the seams. Their continual
patching of new material on the old garment is making matters worse. I hope
to loosen a few of its threads myself. "
Justin Martyr: "You know very well that Jerusalem was laid
waste just as it was prophesied. That it would be destroyed, and no
one allowed to live there, was promised through the prophet Isaiah in this
way: "Your land is desolate." Indeed you are aware that it is
guarded and no one is in it." (First Apology, 47.4-6)
Alexander Tilloch: "The
commentator Arethas,
who quotes Irenaeus' opinion, does not follow it. In his explanation
of the sixth seal he applies it to the destruction of Jerusalem ; and he
does so expressly on the authority of preceding interpreters." (Dissertations
introductory to the study and right understanding of the Apocalypse.
p. 9)
Eusebius
on Sunday worship: "Wherefore, being rejected of them
[the Jews], the Word [Christ] by the new covenant translated and transferred
the feast of the Sabbath to the dawn of light, and handed down to us a
likeness of the true rest: the saving and Lord’s and first day of light.”
(Commentary on the Psalms, Ps. 91 (Ps. 92 in A. V.),
in J. P. Migne, Patrologia Graeca, Vol. 23, col. 1169, author’s
translation.)
-
(On Psalm 45:6/xlvi. 5) “I think
that the Psalmist describes the morning assemblies in which we are
accustomed to convene throughout the world;”
(On Psalm 58:17/lix. 16) “By this
is prophetically signified the service which is performed very early and
every morning of the resurrection-day throughout the whole world.”
(Comm., in Montfaucon’s Collectio Nova Patrum, pp. 85,
195, 272.)
St. Irenaeus of
Lyons (On "the end of the times" as
fulfilled) "This then is the order
of the rule of our faith, and the foundation of the building, and the
stability of our conversation: God, the Father, not made, not material,
invisible; one God, the creator of all things: this is the first point of
our faith. The second point is: The Word of God, Son of God, Christ Jesus
our Lord, who was manifested to the prophets according to the form of their
prophesying and according to the method of the dispensation of the Father:
through whom all things were made; who also at the end of the times,
to complete and gather up all things, was made man among men, visible and
tangible, in order to abolish death and show forth life and produce a
community of union between God and man. And the third point is: The Holy
Spirit, through whom the prophets prophesied, and the fathers learned the
things of God, and the righteous were led forth into the way of
righteousness; and who in the end of the times was poured out in a
new way upon mankind in all the earth, renewing man unto God.." //
"To them that believe He is
as Father, for in the end of the times He opened up the covenant of
adoption; but to the Jews as Lord and Lawgiver, for in the intermediate
times, when man forgat God and departed and revolted from Him, He brought
them into subjection by the Law, that they might learn that they had for
Lord the maker and creator, who also gives the breath of life, and whom we
ought to worship day and night: and to the Gentiles as maker and creator and
almighty: and to all alike sustainer and nourisher and king and judge; for
none shall escape and be delivered from His judgment, neither Jew nor
Gentile, nor believer that has sinned, nor angel: but they who now reject
His goodness shall know His power in judgment, according to that which the
blessed apostle says: Not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee
to repentance; but according to thy hardness and impenitent heart thou
treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and of the revelation of
the righteous judgment of God, who shall render to every man according to
his works." (The Proof of Apostolic Preaching, p. 76-77)
Dollinger "Thus, after a siege unparalleled in the
history of war, fell this noble city, the beloved Jerusalem, after it had
flourished, under the protection of Heaven, more than two thousand years.
The miserable citizens, who had not been carried away in chains, or
crucified around the walls of Jerusalem, wandered forlorn over their once
happy land. Their descendants, after a vain attempt, in the reign of Adrian,
to rebuild their city, were scattered amongst the nations of the earth,
where their children may, to this day, be seen, distinct from the nations
with whom they live. The seat of the Jewish religion had fallen; the city of
sacrifice had been destroyed; that implacable enemy of Christ, the sanhedrim,
had been annihilated; it had become evident, even to the most darkened eye,
that the time had arrived, in which the Church should spring forth, as the
young plant, from the dead seed of Judaism, and should, in a short time,
become the vast tree, spreading its branches over the whole earth."
WHATSNEW
1996-97-98-99-00-01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10-11-12-13-14-15
||
GUESTBOOK |
ARTCHIVE
The Contribution of British Writers Between 1560 and 1830 to the
Interpretation of Revelation 13.16-18 -
Chapter Five : 1649-1660 - Henry Hammond and the Preterist School of
Interpretation "This volume contained a brave but lonely attempt to
introduce the preterist interpretation of the Book of Revelation to
English soil. Hammond laid great stress on the opening words of
the Apocalypse in which the book is said to contain 'things which
must shortly come to pass.' .. But those who argued for the
preterist interpretation of the Book of Revelation.. were playing to
empty galleries, until at least the fourth decade of the nineteenth
century. Their views were anything but popular and those who
followed them could soon find themselves branded with the infamous mark
of the papal beast." Others who followed: Herbert Thorndike /
"author of an anonymous tract on the Millennium published in 1693 ("Millennianism
: or, Christ's Thousand Years Reign upon Earth, considered, in a
Familiar Letter to a Friend")" / Daniel Mace
PRETERISTARCHIVE.COM
KEY BOOK LINKS
Fulfilled Prophecy Bibliography
| All PDF Book Files
ARTchive Churban
James Edson White -
The
Coming King (1911)
Google Books |
Archive.org Book Search : Apocalypse
PRESS CLIPPINGS /
dEmEnTiA
Australian Press "
Visiting the US I once heard Reagan on a fundamentalist radio show chatting happily about the grim prognostications in the Book of Revelation, the arrival of the Antichrist and the imminent second coming and you couldn't help but wonder if he was the right man to have his finger on the button. For once Alzheimer's was a good thing for, by his second term, he seemed to have forgotten all about it.
"
Revelations of the Ancient World
Yahoo Group: Preterist Universalism "Because Preterist thought and Universal Reconciliation in the accomplished work of our Lord Jesus Christ go hand in hand in such a beautiful way! "
An Unauthorized Look at the Christians United for Israel Tour "Are you looking forward to Armageddon? I am!"
BibleProphecyFulfilled.org You can listen to "Bible Prophecy Fulfilled" on KGU 760am, on Saturday mornings at 11:00. Call in to join in the discussion. (808) 296-5467. That would be 2:00 pm PST in the spring, and 1:00 pm in the fall
1544 Josephus
Triumph of Titus, AD71
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GUESTBOOK |
ARTCHIVE
Chiltons' Days of Vengeance Back in Print! |
The Last Days: Rethinking Bible Prophecy in the Light of History
Constantine the.. Pret!
Eusebius : "I am filled with wonder at the intellectual greatness of the emperor, who as if by divine inspiration thus expressed what the prophets had foretold concerning this monster"
BOOKS / SEARCHING...
-
Burlington, J.N. "Destruction of Jerusalem" - 1807. -
Butt, John Martin - The Revelation of St. John compared with itself, and the rest of Scripture ; The Divinity of the Apocalypse demonstrated by its fulfillment.
-
Clarke, Richard - A Discourse on the third day of the Gospel, compared with the seventh day of the Law. London 1794 -
Clericus, Joan. Veteris Testamenti Prophetae ab Esaia ad Malachiam usque, ex translatione Joannis Clerici ; cum ejusdem commentario philologico &c. Amst. 1731 -
Cocceius, Joh. Prof. of Hebrew at Leyden. Comm. in prophetica Jeremiae et Ezekielis Amst. 1669. -
Collyer, Wm. Bengo, D.D. - Lectures on Scripture Prophecy. London 1811 -
Corrodi, Heinrich - A critical history of Chiliasm, or opinions respeecting the millennial reign of Christ. Zurich - First published anonymously in 1781. -
Eichorn, Joh. Godf. - Commentarius in Apocalypsin Johannis. Gotting. 1791. -
Faber, George Stanley. The Sacred Calendar of Prophecy. London 1828 (In this work, which is the last of Mr. Faber's of any importance, he abandons much of the interpretation which he had previously published) -
Fehr, Sam. Benj. - An introduction to the right understanding and use of the Revelation of St. John (or rather of Jesus Christ) ; and as to what relates to the past, sufficiently illustrated from ecclesiastical and secular history. (Ger.) Altenburg, 1761. -
Greenhill, Jos. A.M. Rector of East Horsley - An Essay on the prophecies of the New Testament which relate to the destruction of Jerusalem. Lodon. 1755. -
Grotius, Hugo - Comm. ad loca quaedam Novi Test. Quae de Antichristo agunt aut agere putantur. Amst. 1640. -
Lee, Samuel - Sermons and Dissertations. | Six sermons on the study of Holy Scriptures, their nature, interpretation, and some of their most important doctrines
-
Park, J.R. ; M.D. - An amicable controversy with a Jewish Rabbi on the Messiah's coming. 1832. ; A new exposition of the Apocalypse, so far as the prophecies are fulfilled ; to which are prefixed the history of Christianity epitomised. 1834.
-
Rainolds, John D.D. - A discourse on the destructio nof the Idumeans. 1584
-
Stockwood, John - A Sermon on the Destruction of Ierusalem - Printed by Tho. Dawson, 1584
-
Whiston, William - The Accomplishment of Scripture prophecies
Books you can find in the Certain Evangelical
Bookstores:
-
R.C. Sproul,
The Last Days According to Jesus (Grand
Rapids, Baker Book House)
-
Hank Hanegraaf,
The Last Disciple (Wheaton: Tyndale)
(This is historical fiction)
-
__.
The
Last Sacrifice (Wheaton: Tyndale) (This is
historical fiction)
-
__.
The
Apocalypse Code (Nashville: Thomas Nelson)
-
Gary Demar,
Last Days Madness (Atlanta: American
Vision)
-
__.
End
Times Fiction (Nashville: Thomas Nelson)
-
Loraine
Boettner, The Millennium (Philipsburg:
P&R)
-
Kim
Riddlebarge, The Case for Amillennialism
(Grand Rapids: Baker Book House)
-
Herman
Ridderbos, The Coming of the Kingdom
(Philipsburg: P&R)
James Stuart Russell
-
The Parousia
(1878)
Full
Preterist Millennium "violent and unnatural" "Some interpreters
indeed attempt to get over the difficulty by supposing that the
thousand years, being a symbolic number, may represent a period of
very short duration, and so bring the whole within the prescribed
apocalyptic limits; but this method of interpretation appears to us so violent and unnatural that we cannot hesitate to reject it.
" (p. 514)
Revelation
20:5-10 Still Unfulfilled "We
must consequently regard this prediction of the loosing of Satan,
and the events that follow, as still future, and therefore
unfulfilled." (p. 523)
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