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Qunari race name


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#1
Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl

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I apologize for my bad English but I hope you'll find my post worth your time anyway.

I would like to discuss the name for the kossith race - or, in fact, the
lack thereof. I understand that the term kossith is long-time dead in
Thedas, but wouldn't it be easier to come up with some name for the
biological race? Even something not formal but colloquial. Otherwise our
poor vashoth Inquisitor will get tired or correcting people (especially
if one plays as a tal-vashoth and not just vashoth). After all Qun is
not a race, but philosophy/religion/etc. We don't call dwellers of
Thedas andrastians just because it is the main religion in the most
influential parts of Thedas, do we? Each race has a name. And we don't
call humans andrastians even if this race started this religion. After
all not all humans are andrastians and not all andrastians are humans.
The same with elves - dalish is a specific term, not very broad - which
gives an additional information, but still coexist with the word "elf".
Etc.

Until we get a name for the biological kossith race people will continue
arguing, correcting each other and debating what term is wrong, and
what term is not. Because yes, some of us do want to use the right word
in the right situation

#2
Snook

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The BSN would be a better place if we could all just agree to call them 'bigass ox dudes.'

#3
Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl

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"The bigass ox dude is not a Qunari" better than "The Qunari is not a Qunari"

#4
Maiden Crowe

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Their name Qunari, while the Qunari themselves have not given the race of horned giants a name the people of Thedas have and that name is Qunari, it is the only known word for the race other derogatory slurs and thus that is what they are known as. Seriously it isn't that hard to grasp as anyone who doesn't follow the Qun refers to the race as Qunari and anyone who does follow the Qun doesn't refer to the race at all.

#5
sky_captain

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The Qunari people are much like Jewish people in that the Jewish race was at one time defined by a mostly common relgion, popular preception had both concepts as inseparable. Now you don't have to be Jewish to be Jewish, but just because you are Jewish doesn't mean that you are Jewish.

The Qun is a very holistic belief system, it defines everything about them, what they had been no longer matters, they are Qunari. The Qunari religion has over time converted or destroyed those who thought of themselves as Kossith, the Kossith no longer exist.

I don't mind this as context is generally enough to communicate the meaning of content.

#6
Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl

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Qunari is not the name of the species, while humans and elves - it is.
And we do not use to refer to all humans, the term "Jewish"

Edited by Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl, 26 September 2013 - 07:38 AM.


#7
sky_captain

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Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl wrote...

Qunari is not the name of the species, while humans and elves - it is.


Since the Qun has overtaken practically the whole species (that we are aware of at this time at least,), either willingly or by force and once converted they reject all other descriptions, other than their place in the Qun, Qunari is an appropriate term for the horned race.

#8
sky_captain

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Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl wrote...

And we do not use to refer to all humans, the term "Jewish"


True, but when have humans ever been for all practically unified in a common belief system, as the horned race has been presented to thus far? 

#9
Pseudo the Mustachioed

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Posted Image

thanks mike :D

in the spirit of keeping this discussion going forever, while he is CD its possible that he doesn't have as intimate a knowledge of the lore as the people who write it. So. Carry on!

Edited by Pseudocognition, 26 September 2013 - 07:54 AM.


#10
Maiden Crowe

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Pseudocognition wrote...

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thanks mike :D

in the spirit of keeping this discussion going forever, while he is CD its possible that he doesn't have as intimate a knowledge of the lore as the people who write it. So. Carry on!


Well that's interesting though I am pretty sure David Gaider once said that using the term "Kossith" to identify the race was an improper use of word so who are you going to believe? The Lead Writer or the Lead Designer?

#11
Pseudo the Mustachioed

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He's creative director bbbuuuttt google tells me he's been credited as lead designer? anyway he's CD according to his twitter.

Edited by Pseudocognition, 26 September 2013 - 08:08 AM.


#12
sky_captain

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Pseudocognition wrote...

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thanks mike :D


Although Kossith is described as an antiquated term in the lore, and in offical announcement that we could play the horned species Mike used the term Qunari, and it has been verified by BW staff that the inquisitor will be outside the Qun.

#13
Maiden Crowe

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I guess we will have to wait and see what the race gets called in the character creation screen. How old is that Twitter post? Could they have recently adopted the name to describe the race in order to eliminate confusion due to the popularity of its usage on the forums?

#14
Pseudo the Mustachioed

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Maiden Crowe wrote...

I guess we will have to wait and see what the race gets called in the character creation screen. How old is that Twitter post? Could they have recently adopted the name to describe the race in order to eliminate confusion due to the popularity of its usage on the forums?


From august.

Who knows!

#15
Cacharadon

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It is (or was) the name of the philosophy but just got appropriated to the species as a whole by everybody else. I shall repeat, It was the name of the species given to them by everybody else on thedas, but to them it is the name of their philosophy, we don't need another name because we already have one

Qunari = big ox man (to the common man)
Qunari = the people who follow the qun, whatever race it doesn't matter (to the actual qunari)

why is this even such a huge problem? It's a name, and everything in the DA verse is told in the POV of someone actually in that world so there are no hard and fast classification systems like other fantasy universes.

I really hope we get a headbutting option upon being called kossith while paying a qunari inquisitor.

#16
Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl

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I just think it makes a lot of confusion. Someone says about Qunari and you do not understand, he means "bigass ox dudes" or followers of Qun.

#17
phunx

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Pseudocognition wrote...

Maiden Crowe wrote...

I guess we will have to wait and see what the race gets called in the character creation screen. How old is that Twitter post? Could they have recently adopted the name to describe the race in order to eliminate confusion due to the popularity of its usage on the forums?


From august.

Who knows!


Gaider. That's why he wrote "Mike, you're killing me here!"

#18
Cacharadon

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Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl wrote...

I just think it makes a lot of confusion. Someone says about Qunari and you do not understand, he means "bigass ox dudes" or followers of Qun.


If an elf dwarf or human says "oh look a qunari" he's going to be talking about the horns.
If a qunari says "oh look a qunari" and you dont see horns, then good! Thats the whole point of this situation the writers created. To create confusion in the player. To make him wonder what made that person go join such an alien philosophy and what makes the qunari so completely accept that person into their culture.

So deal with the confusion, it's part of the narrative.

#19
Chari

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NU1 wrote...

Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl wrote...

I just think it makes a lot of confusion. Someone says about Qunari and you do not understand, he means "bigass ox dudes" or followers of Qun.


If an elf dwarf or human says "oh look a qunari" he's going to be talking about the horns.
If a qunari says "oh look a qunari" and you dont see horns, then good! Thats the whole point of this situation the writers created. To create confusion in the player. To make him wonder what made that person go join such an alien philosophy and what makes the qunari so completely accept that person into their culture.

So deal with the confusion, it's part of the narrative.

Call a tal-vashoth qunari or a qunari tal-vashoth and you risk offending them and ending up in an awkward situation at best
Every race has a name, qunari don't for some reason. It's confusing as Hell

#20
ianvillan

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Maiden Crowe wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

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thanks mike :D

in the spirit of keeping this discussion going forever, while he is CD its possible that he doesn't have as intimate a knowledge of the lore as the people who write it. So. Carry on!


Well that's interesting though I am pretty sure David Gaider once said that using the term "Kossith" to identify the race was an improper use of word so who are you going to believe? The Lead Writer or the Lead Designer?


There is only one way to know who is right, both should arm wrestle and the winner is correct.

#21
Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl

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Chari wrote...

NU1 wrote...

Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl wrote...

I just think it makes a lot of confusion. Someone says about Qunari and you do not understand, he means "bigass ox dudes" or followers of Qun.


If an elf dwarf or human says "oh look a qunari" he's going to be talking about the horns.
If a qunari says "oh look a qunari" and you dont see horns, then good! Thats the whole point of this situation the writers created. To create confusion in the player. To make him wonder what made that person go join such an alien philosophy and what makes the qunari so completely accept that person into their culture.

So deal with the confusion, it's part of the narrative.

Call a tal-vashoth qunari or a qunari tal-vashoth and you risk offending them and ending up in an awkward situation at best
Every race has a name, qunari don't for some reason. It's confusing as Hell

You voiced my thoughts)

#22
Cacharadon

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Chari wrote...

Call a tal-vashoth qunari or a qunari tal-vashoth and you risk offending them and ending up in an awkward situation at best

Every race has a name, qunari don't for some reason. It's confusing as Hell


So what's stopping you from calling them tal vashoth? it is the name given to them by the qunari, and the common man can be forgiven for accidently calling a tal vashoth "qunari" cause the tal vashoth is probably either going to kill him anyway or is big enough to overlook the misnomer. Like I said before the confusion is part of the narrative. 

  • I don't see a situation where you would go calling random qunari, tal vashoth (thats just silly and liable to get your head carved in)
  • I don't see why you would call a tal vashoth, qunari, if you already know them to be tal vashoth and that they prefer tal vashoth
  •  If you didnt know they were tal vashoth  3a) you would either be corrected ( I doubt they care what anyone                                                                                    calls them)
                                                                             3b) they kill you and take your stuff (but they would do this anyway)

Edited by NU1, 26 September 2013 - 09:45 AM.


#23
Chari

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NU1 wrote...

Chari wrote...

Call a tal-vashoth qunari or a qunari tal-vashoth and you risk offending them and ending up in an awkward situation at best

Every race has a name, qunari don't for some reason. It's confusing as Hell


So what's stopping you from calling them tal vashoth? it is the name given to them by the qunari, and the common man can be forgiven for accidently calling a tal vashoth "qunari" cause the tal vashoth is probably either going to kill him anyway or is big enough to overlook the misnomer. Like I said before the confusion is part of the narrative. 

  • I don't see a situation where you would go calling random qunari, tal vashoth (thats just silly and liable to get your head carved in)
  • I don't see why you would call a tal vashoth, qunari, if you already know them to be tal vashoth and that they prefer tal vashoth
  •  If you didnt know they were tal vashoth  3a) you would either be corrected ( I doubt they care what anyone                                                                                    calls them)
                                                                             3b) they kill you and take your stuff (but they would do this anyway)

[*]1)How the heck am I supposed to know if they're qunari or not? I'd prefer to use sth neutral[*]2)And if I didn't? They don't have a sign "I am Tal-vashoth/vashoth/qunari" on their back. Now, there is also difference between tal-vashoth and vashoths... And not all vashoths are kossiths[*]3)Now all vashoths are aggressive, some of them work as mercenaries etc  Maraas was quite a nice guy
[*]And finally, every race has a name, why suddenly kossiths don't has no explanation whatsoever. It's not how it works, fella. We want to use the right word and not to be some uneducated folk who doesn't differ kossith qunari from non-kossith qunari or qunari kossith from non-qunari kossith

#24
Neon Rising Winter

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NU1 wrote...

Klaus-Maria Pfertsegentakl wrote...

I just think it makes a lot of confusion. Someone says about Qunari and you do not understand, he means "bigass ox dudes" or followers of Qun.


If an elf dwarf or human says "oh look a qunari" he's going to be talking about the horns.
If a qunari says "oh look a qunari" and you dont see horns, then good! Thats the whole point of this situation the writers created. To create confusion in the player. To make him wonder what made that person go join such an alien philosophy and what makes the qunari so completely accept that person into their culture.

So deal with the confusion, it's part of the narrative.


Yup, I mean here we have something that reflects the multiple meanings and confusion in terminology that occur in reality. Context clarifies it most of the time, and any confusion that does arise is a nice little touch as opposed to a problem. Is it necessary to simplify everything and remove even the vaguest whiff of ambiguity?

#25
Wulfram

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If it's confusing then I'd use "oxmen"

I hope a qunari Inquisitor is allowed to take offence at being called qunari.