I had success with my chargeback claim with Amex. One thing I'd recommend trying is using the dates in the delivery schedule as the anticipated delivery with a prepay early in 2015. That will allow you to be within the 90 day chargeback window. Also send last few communications of anticipated delivery dates as well as communication about creditors liquidation as further evidence to support your claim. There was no notice of impending problems. Good luck to anyone else filing chargebacks...
I have also finally received the message from Kickstarter Integrity about the chargeback that was filed. I'm not sure why Kickstarter believes that this is not fraud that took place, but I presume they never will believe it for any of the campaigns that take place on their web site. Since they left no place for me to respond to their e-mail, I will reiterate my previous statement to their complaints department. Your web site states that as part of the rules, projects must be honestly and clearly presented and that you prohibit photorealistic renderings. As an editors choice project, Kickstarter provided their own independent support for this project, gaining financial incentive for increasing their cut of this project's funds that were raised. Kickstarter and Torquing Group both engaged in fraud. I will not back down from my position with respect to the chargeback on my credit card. Thank you for your understanding.
I tried to dispute and was told that my bank card, USA based, would not help me as the date of the charge was too far back in time. I will not be supporting any Kickstarter projects in the future.
Just want to let all of you know that I have successfully got my money back from kickstarter Today too. I had put a dispute 2 weeks ago in Australia and get money back so quick.
As usual I had received following message from Kickstarter:
*************************************************************************************************************
Hi H.T.,
Kickstarter has received a dispute or chargeback for your £199 pledge to “ZANO - Autonomous. Intelligent. Swarming. Nano Drone.” The pledge was marked as “Product not received.”
We understand your frustration with this project. While Kickstarter is a system where projects sometimes fail, the level of transparency and communication provided by this creator has been unsatisfactory.
Pledging to a project is helping bring a creative idea closer to life, not buying a product that already exists. We expect chargebacks to be reserved solely for transactions that are credit card fraud, which does not appear to be in dispute in this case. We would ask that you please keep this in mind as you use our site.
@BSR you need to tell them that it was a preorder. If they don't understand, ask for the superwisor or someone who anderstand how ks works and what a preorder is...
My bank, Lloyds is giving me the run around and asking for more and more information and if I do not reply by a certain date they will close the claim. You always know when your Bank has your back..... NOT! I already gave them a detailed account. Feckers. Looks like I will be moving Banks this year.
I had no luck with American Express.- while they gave me a temporary credit they responded that I was much past the allowed 60 days from purchase date (money was released in January 2015) to file a dispute and more or less said it would be up to Kickstarter - who sent me one of their form replies.
I was browsing the web looking for something in particular. I came across what seemed to be a good fit. Just imagine how disappointed I was when I found out they plan to launch their product on kickstarter.
Thus, in my opinion the product is dead before it gets off the ground since I have no intention of backing kickstarter projects unless something worthwhile changes which seems unlikely.
Just for anyone looking for a credit dispute strategy: I suggest calling your bank and speaking with someone in the dispute department. I never had to draft a letter. I was able to successfully justify a credit card chargeback because Torquing themselves admitted they ran out of money and will not be fulfilling orders. As far as I understand it, once that was announced, and I stated I did not receive a product as promised, that event was well within the 90 day window.
On another KS project (the Nano 3D printer), I had to call my credit card company 3 times to dispute it, but they eventually refunded my money as well... The key is that I had to give them a timeframe on when the last known shipping date was (even via updates or even comments on KS!) and it that was within 90 days, they felt comfortable moving forward. I had to escalate the last call to someone more experienced, so that's another suggestion I have. And keep on calling back!!! It's no harm to you, and after awhile they might just be annoyed enough to refund you. Just explain how KS works and that you can't dispute it within 90 days of payment because the nature of KS is that they start manufacturing well after you pay and that there are inevitable delays. That is why you need to explain that and tell them the last known dates as put forth in updates or comments.
90 days after when?
The initially promised delivery date, or the revised/postponed one?
Because my bank eventually accepted that the delivery date was the one that was postponed, and we were clearly within their within "80 days".
I checked with HSBC and they told me I had to have made my request within 90 days. If anyone here is with HSBC in the uk and has a refund from a debit payment it would be great to know. We should be treated the same.
Would anyone mind uploading a copy of the charge back request to the back (for debit card holders) if they wouldn't mind. I've penned a letter but would feel better sending one that the bank has successfully accepted.
I finally got e-mail from Kickstarter Integrity, like many other who attempted to do the same thing, stated that: Kickstarter has received a dispute or chargeback for your £xxx pledge to “ZANO - Autonomous. Intelligent. Swarming. Nano Drone.” The pledge was marked as “Product not received.”
Hope everyone will finally got their monies back and Happy New Year!
Kikstart send me this mail: never kikstarter!!
Kickstarter has received a dispute or chargeback for your £xxx pledge to “ZANO - Autonomous. Intelligent. Swarming. Nano Drone.” The pledge was marked as “Unrecognized.”
We understand your frustration with this project. While Kickstarter is a system where projects sometimes fail, the level of transparency and communication provided by this creator has been unsatisfactory.
Pledging to a project is helping bring a creative idea closer to life, not buying a product that already exists. We expect chargebacks to be reserved solely for transactions that are credit card fraud, which does not appear to be in dispute in this case. We would ask that you please keep this in mind as you use our site.
In the email sent on 24 Dec 2014:
CES
We will be at CES from the 2nd until the 11th, and we would love to see you guys there! We will be at booth 25621, so if you're in the area, drop by and say hello!
If people just google it: you will find that there is not such booth!
see http://en.fbtech.com.cn/plus/view.php… Clearly, it is a fraud and we should realised that one year ago.
I will never support any kickstarter project.
It's just this simple: they advertised they had a working prototype and even showed videos of it. It is a clear breach in the contract between us, Kickstarter and them. It was intentional fraud and they need to go to jail.
Because of the announced delays in the promised delivery date, and the sudden bankruptcy announcement. it so happens that my credit card company says they are in a position where they can contest and reverse the change. I am sure Kickstarter will try to oppose that, but it will be a battle between a big bank and them at that point.
I just finished my call with the credit card company minutes ago, and this is what they told me.
This is genius, it's exactly how we all feel about Zano: don't just get angry, get even! I just have to repeat it in the comments in case someone misses it. Even Adolf felt this way:
Hi, in the website indiegogo, its common to happen, I pledge there and thennnnn they disappear, It seems a bubble for crowdfunding that will explode anytime, a tons of scams start to appears, they are professionals to steal our money, and then we dont have any rules, policies, anything to protect us ..... I think they have to organize this mess or the good projects will need to looking for anyway to crowdfunding ............
I have recd a provisional credit as well, my bank asked for paperwork / evidence to show delays / non-delivery & eventual liquidation. All I can say is it looks extremely positive that I'll get my money back. Either way KS is no more as far as I'm concerned.
I was checking out the Phantom DJI 2 specs, there seem to be so many features Zano used that are so similar that they in retrospect definitely seem suspect given Zano's original project target! How in hell were they planning to achieve all that if they couldnt or didnt with their eventual gains? I recall having doubts till d-day but succumbed to the hype after all!
F.Y.I these guys are still checking in on the project. Last check in was today. Click on Torquing Group Ltd and it displays last login. Anyways, guess they are checking in for shits and giggles.
Creator Milton Morales about 1 hour ago
Greendot bank will not give me a chargeback :(
Creator UkeHeidi about 10 hours ago
Some news from the journalist that KS sent in mission to investigate ?
Creator George Gal about 18 hours ago
I had success with my chargeback claim with Amex. One thing I'd recommend trying is using the dates in the delivery schedule as the anticipated delivery with a prepay early in 2015. That will allow you to be within the 90 day chargeback window. Also send last few communications of anticipated delivery dates as well as communication about creditors liquidation as further evidence to support your claim. There was no notice of impending problems. Good luck to anyone else filing chargebacks...
Creator David Berman 2 days ago
I have also finally received the message from Kickstarter Integrity about the chargeback that was filed. I'm not sure why Kickstarter believes that this is not fraud that took place, but I presume they never will believe it for any of the campaigns that take place on their web site. Since they left no place for me to respond to their e-mail, I will reiterate my previous statement to their complaints department. Your web site states that as part of the rules, projects must be honestly and clearly presented and that you prohibit photorealistic renderings. As an editors choice project, Kickstarter provided their own independent support for this project, gaining financial incentive for increasing their cut of this project's funds that were raised. Kickstarter and Torquing Group both engaged in fraud. I will not back down from my position with respect to the chargeback on my credit card. Thank you for your understanding.
Creator Robert 2 days ago
Another major project has all the hallmarks of a doing a Zano. Sincerely hope I'm wrong. This one would take out $1.5 million US. NEEO smart remote.
Creator Seif Kobrosly 3 days ago
I just wanted to let you all know that American Express has given me a charge back after showing them proof about what is going on.
Creator robin wu 3 days ago
How can we refund in China and Hongkong？
Creator Jeremy Hancock 5 days ago
https://www.change.org/p/ivan-reedman-reece-crowther-david-cameron-mp-carwyn-jones-zano-drone-refund-biggest-drone-kickstarter-is-biggest-fraud…
Creator King wizard 6 days ago
H.t.
How did u do this in Australia. I'm here also and not going anywhere with the bank..
Creator Andrés Alberto Martínez Illoldi 7 days ago
Alguien de México obtuvo un reembolso, y si es así, con que banco fue?
Creator Ray on January 7
If it helps anyone, I told the person otp that I did a pre-order for a product via Kickstarter and they didn't seem to have an issue with that
Creator Jonathan Stewart on January 7
I tried to dispute and was told that my bank card, USA based, would not help me as the date of the charge was too far back in time. I will not be supporting any Kickstarter projects in the future.
Creator Justin Bax on January 7
Has anyone managed to obtain a refund for a debit card payment? Is so, please share the process, thanks.
Creator H.T. on January 7
Just want to let all of you know that I have successfully got my money back from kickstarter Today too. I had put a dispute 2 weeks ago in Australia and get money back so quick.
As usual I had received following message from Kickstarter:
*************************************************************************************************************
Hi H.T.,
Kickstarter has received a dispute or chargeback for your £199 pledge to “ZANO - Autonomous. Intelligent. Swarming. Nano Drone.” The pledge was marked as “Product not received.”
We understand your frustration with this project. While Kickstarter is a system where projects sometimes fail, the level of transparency and communication provided by this creator has been unsatisfactory.
Pledging to a project is helping bring a creative idea closer to life, not buying a product that already exists. We expect chargebacks to be reserved solely for transactions that are credit card fraud, which does not appear to be in dispute in this case. We would ask that you please keep this in mind as you use our site.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
Best,
Kickstarter Integrity
*********************************************************************************************************
Creator Bernhard Rabe on January 6
@BSR you need to tell them that it was a preorder. If they don't understand, ask for the superwisor or someone who anderstand how ks works and what a preorder is...
Creator Londoner Abroad on January 6
My bank, Lloyds is giving me the run around and asking for more and more information and if I do not reply by a certain date they will close the claim. You always know when your Bank has your back..... NOT! I already gave them a detailed account. Feckers. Looks like I will be moving Banks this year.
Creator BSR on January 6
I had no luck with American Express.- while they gave me a temporary credit they responded that I was much past the allowed 60 days from purchase date (money was released in January 2015) to file a dispute and more or less said it would be up to Kickstarter - who sent me one of their form replies.
Creator Hammer on January 6
I was browsing the web looking for something in particular. I came across what seemed to be a good fit. Just imagine how disappointed I was when I found out they plan to launch their product on kickstarter.
Thus, in my opinion the product is dead before it gets off the ground since I have no intention of backing kickstarter projects unless something worthwhile changes which seems unlikely.
Zano is great for an anti-kickstarter campaign.
Creator Ray on January 5
All,
I just wanted to inform you that I made a dispute with my bank 4-6 weeks ago and today I saw a refund for my zano.
PS I live in Canada and with RBC
Creator Pai Chanut on January 5
How to refund my pledge. I've been waiting too looooong for Zano.
Creator Roy Verdegem on January 5
For those interested in an alternative: http://www.bestdronedepot.com/introducing-the-2015-hubsan-x4-h501s-fpv-brushless-drone/
Has follow-me function, return home, HD-camera
Creator JEL on January 5
Just for anyone looking for a credit dispute strategy: I suggest calling your bank and speaking with someone in the dispute department. I never had to draft a letter. I was able to successfully justify a credit card chargeback because Torquing themselves admitted they ran out of money and will not be fulfilling orders. As far as I understand it, once that was announced, and I stated I did not receive a product as promised, that event was well within the 90 day window.
On another KS project (the Nano 3D printer), I had to call my credit card company 3 times to dispute it, but they eventually refunded my money as well... The key is that I had to give them a timeframe on when the last known shipping date was (even via updates or even comments on KS!) and it that was within 90 days, they felt comfortable moving forward. I had to escalate the last call to someone more experienced, so that's another suggestion I have. And keep on calling back!!! It's no harm to you, and after awhile they might just be annoyed enough to refund you. Just explain how KS works and that you can't dispute it within 90 days of payment because the nature of KS is that they start manufacturing well after you pay and that there are inevitable delays. That is why you need to explain that and tell them the last known dates as put forth in updates or comments.
Creator Matthew Bush on January 5
Sorry Vincent, 90 days from the date the money left my account. My apologies for not being more specific.
Creator Vincent Goudreault on January 4
90 days after when?
The initially promised delivery date, or the revised/postponed one?
Because my bank eventually accepted that the delivery date was the one that was postponed, and we were clearly within their within "80 days".
Creator Matthew Bush on January 4
I checked with HSBC and they told me I had to have made my request within 90 days. If anyone here is with HSBC in the uk and has a refund from a debit payment it would be great to know. We should be treated the same.
Creator Ashleigh Christopher Yu on January 4
Would anyone mind uploading a copy of the charge back request to the back (for debit card holders) if they wouldn't mind. I've penned a letter but would feel better sending one that the bank has successfully accepted.
Many thanks
Ash
Creator Martin Wiederkehr on January 4
Hi
When i get my money back, kickstarter - it seems that kickstarter get a fraudulent website. Kind regards
Creator LAM SIU CHUNG MANDY on January 3
Hey, I want my money back for this:
Well known and famous AND CHEAPER:
http://axisdrones.com/products/vidius-the-worlds-smallest-fpv-drone
Creator rha on January 1
@Dane Chan - it looks like you entered 26521 instead of 25621.
Google shows pages with reports from CES with "booth 25621" and "Zano":
http://seen.co/event/ces-2015-day-2--2015-2623/highlight/16133
http://www.roboticstrends.com/photo/7_best_drones_of_ces_2015/3/ces
The reports/photos are a kind of proof Torquing Group tried and failed to deliver rather than "succeeded" with fraud.
Creator luca valsecchi on January 1
#Foolboy it is the same message send me.
Creator Pascal Hernalsteen on January 1
2498
Creator Foolboy on January 1
If you would like to see the exact e-mail message I received from KS Integrity, check this out:
http://www.foolboy.com/images/Zano.png
Creator Foolboy on January 1
Hi everyone,
Regarding to my effort on December 22, 2015 here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/torquing/zano-autonomous-intelligent-swarming-nano-drone/comments…
I finally got e-mail from Kickstarter Integrity, like many other who attempted to do the same thing, stated that: Kickstarter has received a dispute or chargeback for your £xxx pledge to “ZANO - Autonomous. Intelligent. Swarming. Nano Drone.” The pledge was marked as “Product not received.”
Hope everyone will finally got their monies back and Happy New Year!
Creator luca valsecchi on December 31
Kikstart send me this mail: never kikstarter!!
Kickstarter has received a dispute or chargeback for your £xxx pledge to “ZANO - Autonomous. Intelligent. Swarming. Nano Drone.” The pledge was marked as “Unrecognized.”
We understand your frustration with this project. While Kickstarter is a system where projects sometimes fail, the level of transparency and communication provided by this creator has been unsatisfactory.
Pledging to a project is helping bring a creative idea closer to life, not buying a product that already exists. We expect chargebacks to be reserved solely for transactions that are credit card fraud, which does not appear to be in dispute in this case. We would ask that you please keep this in mind as you use our site.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
Creator HMC on December 31
I'm in just completed. If no refunds then some jail time at least 1 year that should send a message out to the community.
Creator Dane Chan on December 31
In the email sent on 24 Dec 2014:
CES
We will be at CES from the 2nd until the 11th, and we would love to see you guys there! We will be at booth 25621, so if you're in the area, drop by and say hello!
If people just google it: you will find that there is not such booth!
see http://en.fbtech.com.cn/plus/view.php…
Clearly, it is a fraud and we should realised that one year ago.
I will never support any kickstarter project.
Let's sigh the petition and hope you guys can get the refund:
https://www.change.org/p/ivan-reedman-reece-crowther-david-cameron-mp-carwyn-jones-zano-drone-refund-biggest-drone-kickstarter-is-biggest-fraud…
Creator gillSpie on December 31
It's just this simple: they advertised they had a working prototype and even showed videos of it. It is a clear breach in the contract between us, Kickstarter and them. It was intentional fraud and they need to go to jail.
Creator Hermann Renz on December 31
Just for your information : To sign the petition the Firefox browser guided me wrong. I could not sign it. I used crome and it worked.
Creator Vincent Goudreault on December 30
Because of the announced delays in the promised delivery date, and the sudden bankruptcy announcement. it so happens that my credit card company says they are in a position where they can contest and reverse the change. I am sure Kickstarter will try to oppose that, but it will be a battle between a big bank and them at that point.
I just finished my call with the credit card company minutes ago, and this is what they told me.
Creator Rupert Englander on December 30
2480 signed..... 20 more.....
Creator Hermann Renz on December 30
Ich bin ebenfalls aus Deutschland, aber ich kann die Petition nicht zeichnen , da nirgendwo eine Möglichkeit ist.
Creator Timo Körner on December 30
Wer ist aus Deutschland dabei ?
Creator robin wu on December 30
I can't see the website from China
Creator Hermann Renz on December 29
How can i sign this petition ? I see no sign button on the page ?!?!?!?!?!
Creator Lawrence Wong on December 29
This is genius, it's exactly how we all feel about Zano: don't just get angry, get even! I just have to repeat it in the comments in case someone misses it. Even Adolf felt this way:
https://www.change.org/p/ivan-reedman-reece-crowther-david-cameron-mp-carwyn-jones-zano-drone-refund-biggest-drone-kickstarter-is-biggest-fraud/u/14280518
Creator Kostas Kevrekidis on December 29
Signed
Creator Lawrence Wong on December 29
Come on you sods! What else you got to lose? Do this:
https://www.change.org/p/ivan-reedman-reece-crowther-david-cameron-mp-carwyn-jones-zano-drone-refund-biggest-drone-kickstarter-is-biggest-fraud…
Creator Flavio Oshiro on December 29
Hi, in the website indiegogo, its common to happen, I pledge there and thennnnn they disappear, It seems a bubble for crowdfunding that will explode anytime, a tons of scams start to appears, they are professionals to steal our money, and then we dont have any rules, policies, anything to protect us ..... I think they have to organize this mess or the good projects will need to looking for anyway to crowdfunding ............
Creator Ab on December 29
I have recd a provisional credit as well, my bank asked for paperwork / evidence to show delays / non-delivery & eventual liquidation. All I can say is it looks extremely positive that I'll get my money back. Either way KS is no more as far as I'm concerned.
I was checking out the Phantom DJI 2 specs, there seem to be so many features Zano used that are so similar that they in retrospect definitely seem suspect given Zano's original project target! How in hell were they planning to achieve all that if they couldnt or didnt with their eventual gains? I recall having doubts till d-day but succumbed to the hype after all!
Creator dqpb on December 28
F.Y.I these guys are still checking in on the project. Last check in was today. Click on Torquing Group Ltd and it displays last login. Anyways, guess they are checking in for shits and giggles.