Jump to content

Photo

The Other Dimension Of Racial Diversity


137 replies to this topic

#26
NoForgiveness

NoForgiveness
  • Members
  • 2,528 posts

In medieval Europe you had you had Mongols in the East, North Africans and Arabs in parts of Spain, and Turks in the Balkans. Beyond that you also had Arab traders in Italian ports and a delegation of Ethiopians that visited the Pope in Rome. So it isn't entirely true that the only people ever in Europe during the medieval period were white.

 

In any case, Thedas isn't medieval Europe. The Rivaini have skin tones that can range from tan to ebony, so there are black people living in Thedas. The main difference between Thedas and Europe is that Thedas seems to be in its world's southern hemisphere, with the northern regions of the continent having a more equatorial climate. Most of the darker skinned people might live in the north in that case, rather than the south.

 

I wasn't saying its exactly the same as Europe but generally it is. And generally white people are associated with Europe while other races are associated with other continents/areas/whatever.



#27
Blackout62

Blackout62
  • Members
  • 1,006 posts

I hope to run into more Asian males in the game. They need more representation in the media in general.

 

The usual counterpoint here is Sleeping Dogs but then the counterpoint to that is "it's only one game" and then the counterpoint to that is "Yeah but it's Sleeping Dogs!"

 

 

...We probably need more Asian males. For that matter we probably need more Hispanics, and not even Hispanics outside of derogatory roles, there's just a serious deficit of Hispanics in video games. So thanks Josephine.



#28
NoForgiveness

NoForgiveness
  • Members
  • 2,528 posts

Okay, aside from things such as "no Asia of Thedas for Asian looking characters can come from" (which hey, I think is a crap reason to leave out an entire ethnic group with the exception of one or two NPCs that might look Asian, but what do I know)  what you do consider to be a valid argument?

 

People in Africa developed darker skin to protect them from the amount of sunlight on that continent. If thedas has a more European climate then it would make sense that there wouldn't be a need for darker skin tones hence they wouldn't evolve like that, generally speaking. Yes that is a valid argument. Equality is also a valid argument. So yes I see validity on both sides.
 


  • Annos Basin likes this

#29
David Gaider

David Gaider
  • BioWare Employees
  • 4,514 posts

 

BUT, What about world of Thedas? Where are all the people of colour?

 

Some in this forum will not finish reading this post and reply saying what about the Ravaini? I say thats great because that explains where Josephine and Dorian come from.

 

However where exactly does Vivienne come from? why have we not seen more than the odd person of colour in a random dungeon?

 

Josephine is Antivan. Dorian is Tevinter (from eastern Tevinter, actually).

 

Vivienne is of Rivaini heritage.

 

As for seeing a greater diversity in the NPC's you see around the game, I agree. And you will indeed see that in DAI. I'll point out, however, that we do not have every ethnic group in the real world represented in Thedas (as pointed out, Thedas is simply one continent), but we're endeavoring to make more visible the ones we do have.


  • tmp7704, Wiedzmin182009, ladyofpayne and 32 others like this

#30
Devtek

Devtek
  • Members
  • 529 posts

People in Africa developed darker skin to protect them from the amount of sunlight on that continent. If thedas has a more European climate then it would make sense that there wouldn't be a need for darker skin tones hence they wouldn't evolve like that, generally speaking. Yes that is a valid argument. Equality is also a valid argument. So yes I see validity on both sides.
 

 

While I also see arguments on both sides (the put it in anyways it shouldn't matter if it makes sense vs the yes include as diversity as much as you can but please have some explanation for those people's history) the climate thing you are talking about doesn't actually work in Thedas since none of the humans in Thedas are actually originally from Thedas and they haven't been there for long enough for evolution to change them in such a way. Unless it was magic but I don't think a "make everyone X skin colour" spell would go over very well...I'm still in favour of actual new races rather than ethnicity (as a way to introduce new cultures to Thedas) b/c then you can just go crazy with design and not ****** off someone irrationally.



#31
Battlebloodmage

Battlebloodmage
  • Members
  • 7,962 posts

Josephine is Antivan. Dorian is Tevinter (from eastern Tevinter, actually).
 
Vivienne is of Rivaini heritage.
 
As for seeing a greater diversity in the NPC's you see around the game, I agree. And you will indeed see that in DAI. I'll point out, however, that we do not have every ethnic group in the real world represented in Thedas (as pointed out, Thedas is simply one continent), but we're endeavoring to make more visible the ones we do have.

Can I ask if Asians exist in Thedas out of the known regions?

#32
Undead Han

Undead Han
  • Members
  • 20,480 posts

People in Africa developed darker skin to protect them from the amount of sunlight on that continent. If thedas has a more European climate then it would make sense that there wouldn't be a need for darker skin tones hence they wouldn't evolve like that, generally speaking. Yes that is a valid argument. Equality is also a valid argument. So yes I see validity on both sides.
 

 

Northern Thedas might have a tropical climate actually. We do know that Par Vollen, which is just north of Rivain, is part of a tropical island chain and is covered with jungles. Seheron is covered by jungle as well.

 

According to the lore Par Vollen is the rumored place of origin of humanity as well.

 

Any people native to those regions should have darker skin tones.



#33
NoForgiveness

NoForgiveness
  • Members
  • 2,528 posts

Northern Thedas might have a tropical climate actually. We do know that Par Vollen, which is just north of Rivain, is part of a tropical island chain and is covered with jungles. Seheron is covered by jungle as well.

 

According to the lore Par Vollen is the rumored place of origin of humanity as well.

 

Any people native to those regions should have darker skin tones.

 

/sigh.... not my point.
 



#34
OctagonalSquare

OctagonalSquare
  • Members
  • 474 posts

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, people.

 

"Black" people come from Rivain. We haven't been to Rivain. Thus, we've only ever seen a few people of Rivaini descent. It's that bloody simple.


  • Undead Han and ummiehummie like this

#35
javeart

javeart
  • Members
  • 943 posts

I fully support the OP, though I admit that I went through what ended up being a kind of exhausting discussion about this topic recently (well, not so recently, but it was so exhausting that it still feels like if was yesterday  :lol: ), so -very slefishly :P - I don't think I'm not going to stick around to go through the same arguments again (but Thedas is Europe and Europe is white, but you cannot put non-white people only to PC, etc)... But well, I totally agree. Thedas needs more non white people, in terms of quantity and in terms of variety.


  • godModeAlpha likes this

#36
godModeAlpha

godModeAlpha
  • Members
  • 837 posts

Josephine is Antivan. Dorian is Tevinter (from eastern Tevinter, actually).
 
Vivienne is of Rivaini heritage.
 
As for seeing a greater diversity in the NPC's you see around the game, I agree. And you will indeed see that in DAI. I'll point out, however, that we do not have every ethnic group in the real world represented in Thedas (as pointed out, Thedas is simply one continent), but we're endeavoring to make more visible the ones we do have.


Hello David, it's refreshing to know you guys listen to and engage your fans. Thanks for clarifying!

Looking forward to the vividly diverse world of Thedas.
  • Karach_Blade likes this

#37
syllogi

syllogi
  • Members
  • 7,099 posts

People in Africa developed darker skin to protect them from the amount of sunlight on that continent. If thedas has a more European climate then it would make sense that there wouldn't be a need for darker skin tones hence they wouldn't evolve like that, generally speaking. Yes that is a valid argument. Equality is also a valid argument. So yes I see validity on both sides.
 

 

Generally, groups of people who are from regions closer to the equator are going to be darker skinned, in real life, on any continent on this planet.  Going by the map: http://img1.wikia.no...0/ThedasMap.jpg it appears that the characters we meet from Tevinter, Antiva, and Rivain are darker than Fereldens, since the equator is most likely at the top of this map.  So it makes sense from an ingame perspective.


  • Undead Han likes this

#38
godModeAlpha

godModeAlpha
  • Members
  • 837 posts

Q: I had a question regarding Vivienne. I notice that she is Black. Will there be a variety of races in the game. Previously most of the people you would run into were white by nature. Will she be the only black person in the game or will there be more?
A: Plenty more. Frostbite handles all skin tone a lot better than Eclipse did. (ML)


That's indeed good news. Will that help avoid the warden situation?

#39
godModeAlpha

godModeAlpha
  • Members
  • 837 posts

I would also really like to learn about the other cultures so we can get a better sense of the ethnicities from each.
 
And, agreed, I'd like to see more diversity in the humans as well.  The only PoC companions in three games were Isabela, Dorian, and Vivienne, right?


++ Josephine, thought she was too?

#40
NoForgiveness

NoForgiveness
  • Members
  • 2,528 posts

Generally, groups of people who are from regions closer to the equator are going to be darker skinned, in real life, on any continent on this planet.  Going by the map: http://img1.wikia.no...0/ThedasMap.jpg it appears that the characters we meet from Tevinter, Antiva, and Rivain are darker than Fereldens, since the equator is most likely at the top of this map.  So it makes sense from an ingame perspective.

 

/sigh....not the point I was arguing.  *walks out of thread*



#41
darkmanifest

darkmanifest
  • Members
  • 60 posts

Rivain is an analog for a country in North Africa (and their close relationship with the Qun an analog for North Africa's relationship with Islam, I think) much like Antiva is an analog for a country in the Mediterranean, and of course Orlais and Ferelden are different Northern European countries, etc, etc.  And there's plenty of mixing and immigration going on, so you end up with someone like Vivienne, whose ancestors were probably Rivaini, but whose nationality is Orlesian through and through.  We've had several important Riviaini-descended characters, Duncan, Isabela, and now (most likely) Vivienne, so while DA could be a little more diverse, yeah, it's definitely nothing like most games where non-white characters are only somewhere waaaay in the background, if they're around at all.

 

I especially appreciate that not all the elves and dwarves are fair and blond/redheaded.  They're very different from humans in that regard, but "different" isn't made to mean "defaults to non-human whiteness".


  • PopCola and Tevinter Rose like this

#42
KennethAFTopp

KennethAFTopp
  • Members
  • 1,480 posts

Josephine is Antivan. Dorian is Tevinter (from eastern Tevinter, actually).

 

Vivienne is of Rivaini heritage.

 

As for seeing a greater diversity in the NPC's you see around the game, I agree. And you will indeed see that in DAI. I'll point out, however, that we do not have every ethnic group in the real world represented in Thedas (as pointed out, Thedas is simply one continent), but we're endeavoring to make more visible the ones we do have.

 

Ever planning on fleshing out the other continents. not that I don't think it is needed, but merely curious.



#43
KC_Prototype

KC_Prototype
  • Members
  • 4,589 posts

We will see more this time around but yeah, as a young black male, I want to see more black and POCs in the game. Also, we will definitely see more in Antiva and Rivain so future games.


  • Afro_Explosion and Nyeredzi like this

#44
Spaghetti_Ninja

Spaghetti_Ninja
  • Members
  • 1,454 posts

More asian men in games, sure. We had Kai Leng, ri... *football shot to the face*


  • godModeAlpha likes this

#45
KC_Prototype

KC_Prototype
  • Members
  • 4,589 posts

Rivain is an analog for a country in North Africa (and their close relationship with the Qun an analog for North Africa's relationship with Islam, I think) much like Antiva is an analog for a country in the Mediterranean, and of course Orlais and Ferelden are different Northern European countries, etc, etc.  And there's plenty of mixing and immigration going on, so you end up with someone like Vivienne, whose ancestors were probably Rivaini, but whose nationality is Orlesian through and through.  We've had several important Riviaini-descended characters, Duncan, Isabela, and now (most likely) Vivienne, so while DA could be a little more diverse, yeah, it's definitely nothing like most games where non-white characters are only somewhere waaaay in the background, if they're around at all.

 

I especially appreciate that not all the elves and dwarves are fair and blond/redheaded.  They're very different from humans in that regard, but "different" isn't made to mean "defaults to non-human whiteness".

I wish I could like this. I couldn't said it better myself.



#46
KC_Prototype

KC_Prototype
  • Members
  • 4,589 posts

Vivienne's race seems most likely to hail from Seheron.

No, her heritage is from Rivain.



#47
godModeAlpha

godModeAlpha
  • Members
  • 837 posts

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, people.

"Black" people come from Rivain. We haven't been to Rivain. Thus, we've only ever seen a few people of Rivaini descent. It's that bloody simple.

To be fair if it was that obvious then this thread will not exist. And it's not just black people, many other ethnicities are not represented

#48
mikeymoonshine

mikeymoonshine
  • Members
  • 3,489 posts

People in Africa developed darker skin to protect them from the amount of sunlight on that continent. If thedas has a more European climate then it would make sense that there wouldn't be a need for darker skin tones hence they wouldn't evolve like that, generally speaking. Yes that is a valid argument. Equality is also a valid argument. So yes I see validity on both sides.
 

 

Might be a bit nit picky but you have it the wrong way round. Humans originally came from Africa and would have had dark skin, lighter skin tones developed afterwards. Scientists aren't really sure why lighter skin developed but it is thought to be to do with vitamin D. Darker skinned people in hot countries likely retain that skin tone because it does grant better protection against the sun but the same can't be said for white skin in cold countries. 



#49
NoForgiveness

NoForgiveness
  • Members
  • 2,528 posts

Might be a bit nit picky but you have it the wrong way round. Humans originally came from Africa and would have had dark skin, lighter skin tones developed afterwards. Scientists aren't really sure why lighter skin developed but it is thought to be to do with vitamin D. Darker skinned people in hot countries likely retain that skin tone because it does grant better protection against the sun but the same can't be said for white skin in cold countries. 

 

No, I don't. The body produces melanin(the dark skin/hair pigment) when exposed to sunlight/heat/whatever, its a defensive measure. When people moved out of Africa and into colder climates, there was no longer a need for that much melanin so it went away. A white person is essentially someone that doesn't produce much melanin. White people didn't "develop" white skin, they lost the dark pigment.



#50
DuskWanderer

DuskWanderer
  • Members
  • 1,845 posts

Hello All.

 

I would not like to waste your time, so straight to the point. Why is there a lack of diversity in the human race in Thedas?

 

In DA:I, the diversity of companions and advisors is worthy of praise, I thank Bioware for trying to represent people of Colour.

 

BUT, What about world of Thedas? Where are all the people of colour?

 

Some in this forum will not finish reading this post and reply saying what about the Ravaini? I say thats great because that explains where Josephine and Dorian come from.

 

However where exactly does Vivienne come from? why have we not seen more than the odd person of colour in a random dungeon?

 

These things are easily overlooked, like in DA:O if you decided to flow with a noble warden who was not white, your Cousland family was still white ... I easily overlooked this, I told myself my warden was adopted by the Couslands.

 

However as this is the 3rd DA Game, I am posting this to encourage Bioware to explore equality fully not just sexual orientation but also put more effort into being fair about the human race in Thedas.

In fantasy games, "races" are typified by completely separate looking people. You get to do that in fantasy games, and part of the fun is to make such things. Why just change their color when you can change their build, ears, and whatnot? 

 

I'm not certain of what you're trying to say. It sounds like little more than race-baiting.