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> BartPE and DriveImage XML confusion.
jaclaz
post May 11 2009, 02:22 PM
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WARNING!

The MBR contains, besides partition data (which can be re-created with any partition utility, including Disk Management) the Disk Signature.

If you do not backup your MBR and, for any reason it becomes corrupted or wiped, and you create a new MBR (and new Disk Signature), operating systems that use Disk Signature in the booting process (and have the "old" disk signature in the Registry) WON'T boot anymore.
NT 3.51 and 4.00 do not have this problem AFAIK, as well as Win9x/Me.
2K, XP and Server 2003 use this feature and WON'T boot anymore. (it is possible to repair them, but you need to acccess the Registry offline and properly change the disk signature of the drive to match current one or access the MBR and change the current signature to the "old" one)
Cannot say about Vista/2008/Windows 7. and this includes also Vista/2008/Windows 7 and now Windows 8 and Server 2012.

MBRFIX has a feature to change Disk Signature, but of course you need to use it to read it before, then jolt it down to a small piece of paper that you will have lost when you need it.

Saving a backup of the MBR (and hidden sectors if used) actually costs "nothing" and is strongly advised.

jaclaz
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Erick C.
post May 11 2009, 03:36 PM
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Would a much easier way be to use my recovery discs and then restore the image?
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Ed_P
post May 11 2009, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE (Erick C. @ May 11 2009, 04:36 PM) *
Would a much easier way be to use my recovery discs and then restore the image?

Simpler maybe, but certainly not quicker. Easier is like beauty, it's in the eye of the beholder. smile.gif
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chuckr
post May 12 2009, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE (Ed_P @ May 11 2009, 10:53 AM) *
It depends on what you are trying to recover from.

If you do a backup, install some sw that you find you don't like/want/need, you can do a restore very simply with a standard BartPE system and DIX. I do it all the time.

Isn't that why XP has "System Restore Points" ?

QUOTE
hmmmmm I wonder if MBRFIX will work with Windows 7 systems. hmm.gif

I would guess that it has to specifically say Vista/Win 7.

Why not make a Win 7 "System Repair Disc"?
This is what's meant to help you recover from Win 7 'problems'.
As the literature says:
"Used to boot your computer. Contains Win 7 system recovery tools that can
help you recover Win 7 from a serious error, or restore your computer from a system image."
My DVD has two folders and one file named 'bootmgr' 375 KB.

One folder is 'boot' and has 3 files:
bcd, 256 KB
boot.sdi, 3,096 KB
bootfix.bin, 1 KB

Other folder is 'sources' and has one file = 'boot.wim', 141,139 KB.
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Erick C.
post May 12 2009, 09:14 AM
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I'm good with what I got, right? If this hard drive fails, I'd replace it, use my recovery discs, and restore my image with DIX. Therefore, copying the MBR isn't necessary, right?
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Ed_P
post May 12 2009, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE (chuckr @ May 12 2009, 01:34 AM) *
Isn't that why XP has "System Restore Points" ?

No.

System Restore Points do not remove files that an app created nor non-system files that an app deleted. They were designed to return your system to a previously bootable point in time. Nothing more.

QUOTE (chuckr @ May 12 2009, 01:34 AM) *
Why not make a Win 7 "System Repair Disc"?

A System Repair Disc is useful for correcting problems, if you have the time and know how to find and fix the problem(s). I can reboot and restore my c: drive in about 15 mins if I have a problem and I don't have to worry about what the problem was. wink.gif

QUOTE (Erick C. @ May 12 2009, 10:14 AM) *
I'm good with what I got, right? If this hard drive fails, I'd replace it, use my recovery discs, and restore my image with DIX. Therefore, copying the MBR isn't necessary, right?

Do reread jaclas's posting above.

In that it takes a second to backup or restore a MBR I'm not sure why you're hesitating doing it. FWIW the plugin for it is here: http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...amp;#entry63248
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jaclaz
post May 12 2009, 01:00 PM
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Let's put it this way.

Let's say you are a mason/carpenter highly specialized in creating brick chimneys on roofs.

A (crazy) client asks you to build a brick chimney on his lawn. w00t.gif

What do you do:
  1. build the chimney on the lawn

or
  1. build a house
  2. build a chimney on its roof
  3. take the chimney down from the roof with a crane and place it on the client's lawn
  4. demolish the house


hmm.gif

You can of course do as you think fit smile.gif, but I feel allowed to express how I find odd how people sometimes asks for help/advise and simply refuses to take it. whistling.gif

jaclaz
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Erick C.
post May 12 2009, 01:57 PM
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I appreciate your and Ed_P's advice, and it's been informative, but I just simply want to know if my backup plan is good, as is. If it's not necessary to back up the MBR, I won't.
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jaclaz
post May 12 2009, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (Erick C. @ May 12 2009, 08:57 PM) *
I appreciate your and Ed_P's advice, and it's been informative, but I just simply want to know if my backup plan is good, as is. If it's not necessary to back up the MBR, I won't.


Ok, let's put it on personal opinions, then. smile.gif

As I see it, it is VITAL, NECESSARY, IMPERATIVE, besides being
  • essential
  • indispensable
  • incumbent
  • needed
  • required
  • obligatory

to backup the MBR (and hidden sectors too, if used) as part of any backup/imaging/restoring strategy.

Is it necessary by all standards and means? hmm.gif

This will remain as an open question.

Between you and me wink.gif I can recreate a MBR from scratch with nothing but a piece of paper, a pencil, a hex/disk editor and a couple of smart apps, so technically I do not need to backup it, but still I regularly do so.

FYI:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=21362

happy71.gif

jaclaz
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paraglider
post May 12 2009, 06:46 PM
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Assuming you have access to the WAIK you can use bootsect to initialize an MBR.
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Ed_P
post May 12 2009, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (Erick C. @ May 12 2009, 02:57 PM) *
I just simply want to know if my backup plan is good, as is. If it's not necessary to back up the MBR, I won't.

The only way you're going to know for sure is to put in a new hd and try your plan.

Do consider; if you have a backup of your MBR and don't need it you've wasted 2K of space saving it. If you don't backup our MBR and your restore efforts don't boot you're probably screwed.
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jaclaz
post May 13 2009, 02:23 AM
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QUOTE (paraglider @ May 13 2009, 01:46 AM) *
Assuming you have access to the WAIK you can use bootsect to initialize an MBR.


Hmm, hmm.gif sure, you can also use MBRFIX or any disk editor, but what about DATA? :
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...22984&st=13


jaclaz
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Erick C.
post May 13 2009, 03:08 AM
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Well, when you put it that way, I'll do it.

Why do you suppose DIX doesn't back up the MBR, being that it's this important?

How do I back up and restore my MBR with MBRFIX?

After I back up my MBR, will I have a full-proof backup?

What's a WAIK?
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chuckr
post May 13 2009, 03:10 AM
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QUOTE


Are we shunning the PBR's ?

Or trusting those to the volume saves, from the IPL MBR pt's ? hysterical.gif
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paraglider
post May 13 2009, 06:23 AM
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Link to WAIK download and further info:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...;DisplayLang=en

It is however a large download just to get bootsect. Essential however if you want to build Vista or later based PE's using winbuilder. Of course searching these forums for WAIK would have found the answer to your question.
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jaclaz
post May 13 2009, 06:39 AM
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QUOTE (Erick C. @ May 13 2009, 10:08 AM) *
Why do you suppose DIX doesn't back up the MBR, being that it's this important?

Because it is not meant to.

Why do you suppose that computers do not provide a bottle opener?
It is very important to have a bottle opener if you are thirsty, but computers are not meant to solve that problem.

Driveimage XML:
QUOTE
DriveImage XML is an easy to use and reliable program for imaging and backing up partitions and logical drives.

The program allows you to:
Backup logical drives and partitions to image files
Browse these images, view and extract files
Restore these images to the same or a different drive
Copy directly from drive to drive
Schedule automatic backups with your Task Scheduler

(bolding is mine)
Driveimage does the above, and nothing else.

Compare with this (SelfImage):
QUOTE
SelfImage is capable of making an image file of a hard disk or hard disk partition, and can restore an image back to any drive or partition that doesn't have open files. Useful for making backups. Unlike dd for Windows (or cygwin), SelfImage is capable of creating an image of a partition that is currently in use.

SelfImage can even create images of partitions that Windows doesn't recognize (partitions that Windows doesn't have mounted on a drive letter). This is perfect for the dual-boot system, you can create an image backup of a Linux partition directly from Windows.

Features include:
Create 1:1 image files of any mounted (or unmounted on Windows 2000/XP) hard disk partition.
Can create an image of an entire hard disk, including the master boot record, partition table, and all partitions (Windows 2000/XP)
Restore previously created images to any partition, even mounted ones, as long as it doesn't have open files.
On-the-fly compression accelerated with parallel CPU support to take advantage of today's hyperthreaded, multi-core and SMP systems.
Skip reading a disk's "free space", treating it as if it were zero. This decreases the size of a compressed image and makes it process MUCH faster. NEW Version 1.2.0 can now do this for Linux ext2/ext3 partitions as well.
NEW Available as an experimental BartPE plugin for use in boot/rescue CDs. SelfImage is also included on the excellent Ultimate Boot CD for Windows (UBCD4Win).
Network Block Device support to make images of disks on remote machines, and restore back to them.
Multi-threaded design for maximum throughput and low CPU overhead.

Why it cannot "Browse these images, view and extract files "? It may be important, but it's out of the scope of the program.


QUOTE (Erick C. @ May 13 2009, 10:08 AM) *
How do I back up and restore my MBR with MBRFIX?

Reading this may help wink.gif:
http://www.sysint.no/nedlasting/mbrfix.htm
you may find in it a line saying:
CODE
MbrFix /drive <num> savembr <file>         Save MBR and partitions to file


You may also want to use my little (OLD) pseudoGUI for it:
http://home.graffiti.net/jaclaz:graffiti.net/index.html
or any of the orther ones available, or another program, see here, where more information on the matter is given:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...=21768&st=7

jaclaz
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Erick C.
post May 13 2009, 10:53 AM
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I don't get it.

Why back up this hard drive's MBR? DIX doesn't need it to restore an image.

A new hard drive comes with an MBR and all necessary hidden sectors to boot an operating system, no?

Wouldn't I just install the new hard drive, insert my recovery discs to set my computer to factory defaults, including C partition and D recovery partition, boot my BartPE disc, and restore my image with DIX?
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rdsok
post May 13 2009, 12:35 PM
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It's obvious that you don't get it but don't you find it compelling that all of the other users have still insisted it is important to also backup the MBR? Performing that one simple additional step to help ensure that you have your bases covered takes less time that it did to type a post on the forum... you asked a question and were given the answers to it... if you don't get it just assume for now that its correct until you have learned more about the situation.
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chuckr
post May 13 2009, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE (Erick C. @ May 13 2009, 09:53 AM) *
I don't get it.

Why back up this hard drive's MBR? DIX doesn't need it to restore an image.

A new hard drive comes with an MBR and all necessary hidden sectors to boot an operating system, no?

Wouldn't I just install the new hard drive, insert my recovery discs to set my computer to factory defaults, including C partition and D recovery partition, boot my BartPE disc, and restore my image with DIX?

You'll probably never get it. sleeping.gif

Read "the pink box" here:

http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/asm/mbr/Win2kmbr.htm

then do however you choose.
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Ed_P
post May 13 2009, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE (Erick C. @ May 13 2009, 11:53 AM) *
I don't get it.

Why back up this hard drive's MBR? DIX doesn't need it to restore an image.

True DIX doesn't need it, but the OS you restore might. From jaclaz's posting above:
QUOTE (jaclaz @ May 11 2009, 03:22 PM) *
WARNING!

The MBR contains, besides partition data (which can be re-created with any partition utility, including Disk Management) the Disk Signature.

If you do not backup your MBR and, for any reason it becomes corrupted or wiped, and you create a new MBR (and new Disk Signature), operating systems that use Disk Signature in the booting process (and have the "old" disk signature in the Registry) WON'T boot anymore.
NT 3.51 and 4.00 do not have this problem AFAIK, as well as Win9x/Me.
2K, XP and Server 2003 use this feature and WON'T boot anymore.


QUOTE
A new hard drive comes with an MBR and all necessary hidden sectors to boot an operating system, no?

No.

QUOTE
Wouldn't I just install the new hard drive, insert my recovery discs to set my computer to factory defaults, including C partition and D recovery partition, boot my BartPE disc, and restore my image with DIX?

Try it and let us know if it works as you think. But be forewarned, if it doesn't a. you're screwed and b. we will all say we told you so. wink.gif
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