--- Day changed

--- Log opened Tue Jul 26 23:59:02 2005
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07:19 < vincentb> hi everybody ...
07:20 < vincentb> I would like to run a full SUSE 9.2 in a XEN virtual machine. Can you help me? Is there a site which already describe the sequence of actions to perform?
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08:05 < ijuz__> why don't you just switch to 9.3 is has xen included, is said to be very easy
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08:43 < ijuz> is Ian Pratt here?
08:49 < demon> he's probably off working on code... I don't know if he participates in the IRC channel
08:50 < ijuz> ok, i'll mail, i just found out that sometimes sleep 10 takes 18 minutes (and counting) on xen-unstable
08:50 < ijuz> mostly only 5 sec
08:50 < demon> hm... yeah, that'd be your best bet, I'm guessing
08:52 < johnlev> ijuz: bet it averages out OK then :P
08:54 < ijuz> johnlev: yeah, you want to measure if it's correct? :)
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10:01 < vincentb> Ijuz. Thanks for your answer. In fact I would like to run Suse as a guest, not as a host.
10:02 < ijuz> ah, i think you can just tar it or whatever
10:02 < ijuz> put in in your device for xen
10:02 < ijuz> probably you have to copy a complete /dev to it
10:02 < ijuz> but basically it should work then
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11:09 < cilkay> vincentb, do a conventional installation of SuSE 9.2 and skip the bootloader installation part. Reboot, which will boot the Xen dom0 and copy the domU kernel modules, if necessary, to the partition or logical volume containing your freshly installed SuSE 9.2. Create/modify the Xen config file for the domU and xm start.
11:10 < demon> heh... I need to see if I can hack up rpmstrap to install SuSE
11:10 < cilkay> demon, rpmstrap didn't work for Mandriva bta.
11:10 < cilkay> btw
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11:23 < vincentb> Cilkay, thanks for the info ... but this is a bit too complex for me. If I understand you well, I have first to install Suse9.2 in the same way as if I had no XEN install on my PC
11:23 < vincentb> Then reboot my PC (btw Dom0 runs for FC4).
11:23 < vincentb> then ...
11:23 < vincentb> I am a bit lost. Can you explain with more details ... I have been using Xen just for a couple of days...
11:24 < Tv> you could also install it on another host and transfer the image
11:24 < Tv> or use qemu
11:24 < Tv> but booting a CD and installing it on another partition is often the simplest way
11:25 < Tv> of course, we debianites just use debootstrap ;)
11:27 < vincentb> Ok ... let's suppose I have now installed SUSE9.2 on an other partition of my PC. What are the next step to run this new linux from my XEN0? Do I have to update the kernel in the newly installed Suse?
11:27 < demon> well, rpmstrap is pretty nice... it's just a matter of figure out what packages need to be installed for specific RPM-based distros, and in what order
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12:03 < cilkay> vincentb, once you have SuSE installed on other partitions, you reboot in FC4 and create the config file for the virtual machine in /etc/xen that you will need to start the VM. The Xen docs have all the info you need. I have documented the process for Mandriva here: http://www.dinamis.com/blog so you can adjust to suit. It is not complete (yet) but you should have enough info to get you going.
12:06 < cilkay> demon, the only advantage of rpmstrap I can think of over urpmi is that you can use it even if you don't have the RPM or urpmi toolchain installed as would be the case if your dom0 is a non RPM based system. I can achieve the same goal with urpmi provided I have the urpmi toolchain installed. Actually, it is better in that all I have to specify is "urpmi basesystem" and it works out what it needs and the order in which
12:06 < cilkay>  to install.
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13:17 < demon> yeah, I don't run RPM-based distros in my dom0 installs :)
13:18 < demon> I use debian, because it's... skinnier
13:18 < demon> well, that and other reasons
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14:17 < ijuz> btw. are there ready to go images of SuSE 9.3 or FC4 avaible on the net or a way to bootstrap them from debian?
14:20 < ijuz> does somebody else run xen-unstable?
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14:29 < murble> ijuz: there is a generic rpm bootstrap tool i belive.
14:30 < murble> one of the random debian company offshoots has it, i also belive it is mentioned on a howto in the Xen wiki.
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14:35 < niv> ijuz: a lot of people run unstable
14:36 < ijuz> niv: i guesses so, also with athlon and via chipset?
14:41 < niv> ijuz: ah,  not at the moment at least on my disktop (dual xeon) but others might have.  i have a system at home that has an athlon and via that i can put xen on and see..
14:42 < ijuz> niv: ok, you remember probably i complained yesterday about double speed xen... i reported it to xen-devel... well also the 1/100 speed issue and i tried it on another system and it's fine there
14:42 < ijuz> so i guess it's most likely the chipset
14:42 < niv> ijuz: yep, saw that - i tested it yesterday on my box, and could not reproduce either. 
14:46 < niv> ijuz: kernel tainted?
14:47 < ijuz> of course not, the thing that xen is compiling
14:47 < ijuz> (that has btw. a shitty config)
14:47 < ijuz> but i wanted to be reproducable
14:48 < demon> so construct your own config :)
14:48 < demon> that's what I do
14:49 < ijuz> yeah, i should automate this, it's annoying to be without DMA :)
14:55 < cilkay> demon, I understand. However, I am getting quite interested in rpm-parallel and fanout that Mandriva uses for clusters. It seems like a good solution for maintaining a bunch of servers. Anything like that in the Debian world? I know about FAI.
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15:27 < ijuz> it's relativly easy to install debian from a script
15:27 < ijuz> depending what you exactly want
15:28 < ijuz> i have a fresh script for convenient xen domU creating of debian images: http://debian.christian-leber.de/xen/instant_debian_00.sh
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16:31 < cilkay> ijuz, I have similar scripts for Mandriva, though in my case, I just untar a base install. BTW, I was not successful in using debootstrap. When I asked for help on #debian, a channel legendary for its friendliness, I was met with "Why are you trying to do this the hard way? You must be a Gentoo weenie." and other such helpful hints.
16:32 < demon> er... debootstrap is pretty simple... you give it the directory to install to, the name of the release you want installed, and (optionally) the URL to the base of a debian mirror
16:33 < cilkay> It choked when I did that. Don't recall the error.
16:33 < cilkay> I can try again sometime.
16:34 < riel> "fun"
16:35 < riel> Loading scsi_mod.ko module
16:35 < riel> ERROR: /bin/insmod exited abnormally with value 0 ! (pid 335)
16:35 < riel> Loading sd_mod.ko module
16:35 < riel> ERROR: /bin/insmod exited abnormally with value 0 ! (pid 336)
16:35 < ijuz> cilkay: and why did you join #debian in the first place? :))
16:35  * riel baked a new xen & kernel for FC4 but it's not willing to load modules
16:35 < cilkay> ijuz, because I didn't know any better at the time:)
16:35 < ijuz> riel: have you got a testbox with via chipset and athlonxp? :)
16:36 < riel> ijuz: not a test box
16:36 < riel> my wife would be very upset if I started using her system as a test box
16:36 < riel> it's also the firewall and server at home
16:37 < ijuz> ok, could have been... i guess most of the test hardware at rh are server boxes from big vendors
16:40 < riel> absolutely
16:40 < riel> but that also includes older server boxes that big vendors gave us a few years ago ;)
16:41 < ijuz> hm, i could steal my mothers computer... that is an athlon with amd chipset :)
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18:17 < chrish01> is the plan9 port usable?
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21:00 < aliguori> I guess that's a little better
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22:03 < _MarkW> moooooooo
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22:06 < _MarkW> sdague: mooooo!
22:08 < sdague> _MarkW: baaaaaah
22:09 < _MarkW> sdague: squawk!
22:09 < sdague> _MarkW: oink
22:10 < sdague> how many more phases of handshake do we need to set up the control channel ;)
22:10 < _MarkW> sdague: hee haw
22:10 < _MarkW> i think we're running out of farmyard noises
22:10 < _MarkW> so I suggest we now declare STATE_BARN_DOOR_OPEN
22:11 < sdague> and out run all the chickens!  
22:11 < sdague> unrelated, thankfully I've got power in my house again.  Had a 5 hour outage due to crazy thunderstorms
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22:12 < _MarkW> eek!  5 hours is pretty extreme
22:13 < sdague> yeh, it was a pretty extreme storm
22:13 < _MarkW> my parents once had a power failure near their house - apparently the resulting power company activity made the street look like the scary alien-hunting bits out of ET
22:13 < sdague> I ended up driving home in it, and could see a whole 100 feet in front of my car
22:13 < sdague> hehehe
22:13 < _MarkW> interestingly, the power company people drilled a hole in the pavement so they could look at the conduit
22:13 < _MarkW> the hole is still there :-/
22:14 < _MarkW> 100ft ain't good - I don't think I'd fancy *that* in a storm.
22:14 < sdague> so, in the time I had off the network I wrote a piece of perl code to help me understand the structure of the tools/python code.  This is the result: http://dague.net/testing/classmap.ps
22:16 < _MarkW> nice!
22:16 < _MarkW> it's rather long :-)
22:16 < sdague> you noticed that... huh ;)
22:16 < _MarkW> At one point, Xend (+ tools?) was bigger than Xen.  Don't know if that's true anymore.
22:16 < sdague> it got longer by 10 pages when I added the function table of contents
22:18 < _MarkW> !!!
22:19 < sdague> well, 10 folded pages, so only 5 pages on the postscript
22:19 < sdague> the last bit is just a list of all the functions in alphabetic order, and what file and line number they are defined at
22:20 < sdague> _MarkW: what are you still doing awake anyway? :)  Isn't the sun about to come up over there ;)
22:21 < _MarkW> sdague: as long as I'm asleep by the time the sun comes up, I don't turn to stone
22:22 < _MarkW> ottawa was in my time zone, so the day star could not hurt me
22:22 < sdague> hehehe
22:26 < aliguori> sdague: wow, you really were serious about having a class diagram for xend :-0
22:27 < sdague> I can't make any sense of the spagetti in my own brain otherwise
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22:27 < sdague> at least this is a create sheet to figure out what is where :)
22:27 < aliguori> mm, spaghetti..
22:27 < aliguori> haven't had that in a while
22:27 < _MarkW> aliguori: what kind of undergrad are you???
22:27 < sdague> the parser is 174 lines of perl code, and took me 1.5 hrs to write :)
22:28 < sdague> yeh, who let you off your raman noodle diet ;)
22:28 < aliguori> sdague: I've got the netback part done..  I'm having a hard time not rewriting large chunks of the netfront driver though
22:28 < aliguori> it's so ugly :-)
22:28 < aliguori> sdague: never ate raman... bulk bags of rice are cheaper :-)
22:28 < aliguori> and more my kind of thing
22:28 < sdague> hehehe
22:29 < aliguori> _MarkW: spaghetti requires lots of pots
22:29 < sdague> I guess rice and beans would be more of a texas things
22:29 < aliguori> which then have to be cleaned.. therein lies the problem
22:29 < _MarkW> aliguori: 1 != lots
22:29 < aliguori> 1 is lots :-)
22:29 < sdague> aliguori has counting issues 
22:29 < aliguori> need a pot for the sauce too
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22:30 < _MarkW> aliguori: not if you throw it in after you drain the spaghetti
22:30 < aliguori> I've got more than just counting issues :-)
22:30 < sdague> no, just put cold sause on hot spagetti
22:30 < sdague> it all sort of evens out to warm
22:30 < aliguori> nooooo
22:30 < aliguori> :-)
22:30 < _MarkW> sdague: you'd think they'd have taught him that in some class or other
22:30 < _MarkW> sdague: standards are obviously not as high as they used to be
22:30 < aliguori> hehe
22:30 < sdague> College Cooking 101
22:31 < aliguori> Im telling you, some rice, and some soy/hot sauce
22:31 < aliguori> that's all you need
22:32 < _MarkW> i once made spag bol with chinese noodles and no meat
22:32 < _MarkW> that came out kinda weird
22:33 < sdague> that's like saying "i once made pizza with tortia shells and no cheese"
22:34 < aliguori> I recently tried to make pho.. what a disaster
22:35 < _MarkW> sdague: lol :-)
22:35 < _MarkW> it was about 3am, in the days when that wasn't normal to me.  that was all i had in my cupboard at the time.
22:35 < _MarkW> aliguori: pho?
22:36 < sdague> vietnamese noodles
22:36 < aliguori> _MarkW, vietnamese noodle soup
22:36 < aliguori> should just be some meat, some beef broth, and noodles
22:36 < _MarkW> aliguori: I was just wikipedia-ing it :-)
22:36 < aliguori> I somehow messed that up though :-)
22:36 < aliguori> mmm, wikipedia
22:37 < sdague> does everything remind you of food!
22:37 < aliguori> sdague, pretty much
22:37 < sdague> mmm... much
22:37 < demon> hey, what's wrong with that? :)
22:37 < _MarkW> aliguori: WP has a very nice page on Xen, as does the french (!) wp.
22:37 < _MarkW> sdague: so he is a proper undergrad.
22:37 < aliguori> _MarkW, yeah, I know, you wrote most of it right? :-)
22:38 < _MarkW> aliguori: other people write stuff that's not quite right, then I add a load of stuff to correct it.  the result is that it's growing over time :-)
22:38 < aliguori> I thought one day a while ago to go put in a bunch of stuff in about Xen and noticed you beat me to it :-)
22:38 < aliguori> _MarkW, I thought about updating it to 3.0 but figured I'd wait for the release first
22:38 < _MarkW> quite a lot of changes come from other people - especially now.  i just add stuff occasionally.
22:39 < _MarkW> Yup.
22:39 < aliguori> Novell showed a port of NetWare to Xen?
22:39 < _MarkW> aliguori: surprised me too...  they're not shipping it.
22:40 < demon> netware on xen?
22:40 < aliguori> wow
22:40 < _MarkW> I didn't write that, so I've been hoping the person who did knew what he was talking about.
22:40 < _MarkW> Right, time for bed.  See yall later.
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 27 23:59:00 2005