Note: what I’m about to write here is not meant for game newbies. Utilize at your own risk.
Takeaways are a very valuable psychological ploy contributing to a player’s seduction prowess. You can read a definition of takeaways here. In short, a takeaway is the act of feigning disinterest in a woman for the purpose of increasing her attraction for you, and thus your likelihood of bedding her. This fake disinterest can be as simple as a backturn, or an unannounced abrupt exit from a conversation. Takeaways are the Swiss Army knives of seduction, as they can be used at almost any point during the pickup, with equal effectiveness. For instance, a takeaway can set the right tempo early on by making a girl chase you for conversation instead of the other way around, or a takeaway can be employed during foreplay to get a girl to drop her last minute resistance to sex.
Takeaways are a very powerful game tactic, for the reason that they are a high risk gamble. (Generally, and as with most things in life, the riskier the game tactic, the higher the reward.) The risk comes in the fact that a girl may very well call your takeaway bluff.
PLAYER: You’re really cool and all. Maybe we should just be friends.
GIRL: Ok.
But when a takeaway works, and the girl bites, you will be amazed at how quickly the status dynamics of the courtship will change. Flipping the script, properly executed, can make gaming a girl seem like outrunning a morbidly obese American woman. You can practically walk to the finish line.
Here’s an especially devious takeaway that I’ve used many times to great effect. Use this on later dates just before the momentum is carrying you both to sexual closure, and only use on girls who are engaging in stalling tactics. In other words, use on “good girls”. (There is a minor subclass of bad girls who will also respond well to this takeaway, which I will explain below.) Basically, what you will be doing is stealing the woman’s prerogative to delay coital finality in the interest of “wanting everything to feel right”.
UNWITTING GIRL: I’m having a really good time.
DEVIOUS YOU: Me too. I’d like to have a drink with you back at my place, but…
UNWITTING GIRL: What?
DEVIOUS YOU: I dunno. I’m trying to turn over a new leaf. I think it means a lot more when things aren’t rushed. Maybe wait a little. You’re the kind of girl I want to take it slow with. Call me crazy, but that’s how I see it now.
Now after this, most likely she will say “Aw that’s so nice” and agree with you. Then you will be left asking yourself, “Hey, I thought this was supposed to work as advertised? She just called my bluff!” Settle down, Anakin. This takeaway works it’s magic on a delayed cycle. Continue the date as usual, and invite her over to your place anyhow. You won’t need an excuse because you’ve already told her nothing will happen. What you’ll notice instead is an increase in her compliance that you would not normally have gotten. Though you “confessed” only hours earlier, in so many words, that you wanted to wait for sex, she will find herself inexplicably moving things faster in the direction of your hidden agenda. The phony virtue takeaway has preemptively disarmed her anti-slut defense. She will rationalize that you are not forcing her to do anything because you’re “not that kind of guy”, and your road to sex will suffer fewer impediments.
Why did I write above that this takeaway is not meant for newbs? Because you need to be banging other girls before attempting such a high risk maneuver. If you are hard-up, your mind, body, and emotions will be incongruent with your spoken words. She will sense something is off about your claimed phony virtue, and she will not only call your bluff, but also lose respect for your now-waning masculinity for trying an end-run around her sexual reticence *and* your own sexual desire.
In addition, some newbs may mistakenly use this takeaway on girls who are already good to go. That’s called overkill. If she genuinely wants it, you won’t need any more mental games. All you’ll need at that point is the balls to lead her where she wants to be.
As I mentioned above, the subclass of girls this takeaway would work on are the badgirl sluts who are practically dragging you to the bedroom. Be careful of the overtly sexual girls; oftentimes their lewdness and blunt physical sexuality are a ruse designed to entrap less alpha men who lack control over their horniness. If you bite too soon or too eagerly, she may lose her desire. If you do manage to bed a badgirl slut on the first date, she is more likely than the typical girl — thanks to the male-like contours of her brain — to lose interest the next morning. For these girls, the phony virtue takeaway is perfect for (re)establishing that she is the one chasing you, and not the other way around. Plus, by stroking her egotistic need to not be noticed for her sluttiness, it will make her feel more special than she really is. Phony virtue game, delivered as sincerely as your acting skills can summon, can turn a one night stand with a slut into a three month fling.
Very nice. I am more of a natural then I think.
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I’m so used to simple takeaways being purely to keep the girl curious about all the mysterious things I’m involved in and thus in The Defensive Crouch, I completely ignored the potential for them to aid in feeding the rationalization hamster. Cerebral as always.
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Okay, so this suggests you’ve personally experienced instances of the sort of flakes and losses of interests you warn against. So you weren’t always Darth Vader. Just looking for a little fucking hope for us trainees out here.
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These kinds of things are basically DHVs – showing you have higher status and better options. The trick is calibration – knowing when to use and when to plow ahead, when and how to push-pull. That comes from experience and emotional intelligence.
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Women abuse this tactic on guys all the time! lol
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Excellent post. Key is that you truly must know what you’re doing when you do this. Not just because the acting will be easy to see through, but also if you overplay a “good girl,” you’ll have even more trouble on your hands later on should you decide she’s only short term.
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Belonging to a more conservative culture, I instinctively delay sex. What you mention here absolutely works in the western dating scene. I would not classify myself as a top notch player/alpha though. Perhaps it worked in my case because I genuinely wanted to delay sex.
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Takeaway is a common tactic mothers use to manipulate their children through terrible twos. Tom Sawyer used it to have his aunt’s picket fence painted with double coats, and earned enough coupons to redeem a Bible at Sunday school. Pupu has been a victim of the tactic, in its various forms, since her childhood.
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well-illustrated, sir.
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This has definitely often worked for me. Though you don’t have to say that you definitely want to wait for sex. Just saying you’re just fine with waiting for it, or maybe we should get to know each other well first, works bang up too.
Actually that should always be your official stance. A bit blaze about getting laid. “Hey, it happens so much, what’s the sweat” is the unspoken idea to convey. Just having a good time, and what will be will be. Cat nip.
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Poor Pupu.
There there.
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Dammit. Why did I have to come across this blog three months ago?? I’ve been engaged for 4 months and thought I had everything down pat.
If I only had a little bit more info in the arsenal when I was 20, I could see life in general being a whole lot more interesting. (I’m 30 now)
This doesn’t just effect your interactions with women, it improves your overall interactions with everyone and every situation. Best blog out there, even if you are basically tied down now. lol
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Doug1, thank you for the condolences.
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The takeaway is like a microcosm of something bigger and more powerful.
All of the girls I have fallen hard for – who I could not get out of my mind despite my best intentions – had done this: they should show an initial spark of interest and attention, they would increase this until it would be obvious they were very interested, and then, boom – all the signs of interest drop away rapidly.
As much as I understand the basic psychological processes at work, it’s almost impossible not to think about the girl more.
Why is she ignoring me? Meh, I don’t care, why should I, I’m fucking other girls. ….(Did I do something wrong? Fuck). Is she talking to another guy? I’ll ignore her back! Screw her! And so on.
Of course, you should have options and be banging other chicks, which mitigates this. But regardless, it filters into your subconscious, and there’s a basic but potent effect going on here here.
Girls who have become very attracted, bordering on obsessed with me, have all been subjected to this hot/cold, push/pull “technique”, whether consciously or not.
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@castricv
I suppose the unintentional “castrat” reference in your nickname is due to your married status.
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Cute G, but no it’s a combo on my full name that I’ve used for work and school for years. Ironic though it is, but I really do not consider it like that. Pretty happy with this one and she’s been fully trained beforehand.
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Amazing how this works. I moved out of a year-long LTR (we were living together) last November shortly after discovering this blog intending to end it with her, but she wouldn’t let go and the sex just got hotter. Now, six months later, all I have to do is withdraw a bit to put the sizzle back in. Takeaway game plus sincerely not caring whether or not we stay together keeps her interest level high. Perverse, isn’t it?
Castricv – You say you’re engaged? Are you paying attention?
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Unfortunately girls think this works on guys and flake all the time. Not sure where they are hearing it from, but it only works on needy betas. Then they complain the guys are contacting them too much and begging.
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A preemptive LJBF or LTIS (lets take it slow) are just two of many takeaway strategies. However, I’d argue they are the least effective (particularly for noobs) in that they have the potential of being self-defeating from the outset. For any takeaway to be effective your target MUST have at least a minimum baseline IL in you. In other words the attention you’re effectively “takingaway” must be valuable enough for her to appreciate it’s absence.
The problem with preemptive takeaways is that the prompt is from the Player not the target, so there’s no cause and effect that she can follow to figure out why you pulled back. In fact I’m not sure I’d even call that a takeaway so much as it is preemptively diffusing what you expect will be her filibustering of your anticipated push for sex.
The most effective takeaways are reactionary and one’s that spark competition anxiety. The trick with these is to prompt her imagination about your level of interest in her after she filibusters or declines your advances. Thus you have a cause and effect for her to follow. The danger in this takeaway is OVERTLY coming off as sulky, like a spoiled child who’s going to take his toys and go home. Like most communication with women it must be an indirect, veiled threat. Usually this requires nuanced responses that noobs simply haven’t mastered.
The most important element in any effective takeaway is understanding that it’s essential behavioral psychology – operant conditioning to be exact. You reinforce desired behavior and remove that reinforcement (your attention) when the target does not perform. Now before anyone tells me how horrible and manipulative that is, just bear in mind that women have been doing their own operant conditioning since the dawn of time using their sexuality as the reinforcer for men.
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Southern Man, I am indeed paying attention, and I feel pretty smart that I was basically doing much of the things written on this blog before I ever heard of game or this blog. However, I do not think one can completely buy into the whole never marry thing. I basically read it to be and have lived it to mean that improve your life by knowing your opponent, but once you have a worthy opponent that has proven to be able to be a decent, loyal, and giving woman like in my grandparent’s days, you should be open to the possibility of marriage and children. Don’t ever let game trump your Christian duty (if you happen to be Christian), merely allow it to guide your pursuits wisely until you find the right one. ANd if you never do then that’s ok too, have fun. I am not displeased with my situation.
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Definitely fallen for those overtly sexual chicks mentioned in the last paragraph. Need to hold my horniness in check.
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Castricv, Christian marriage is between you, her, and God, with the ceremony public so your families and friends can help hold you accountable. Do not confuse it with the legal institution so rightly despised here.
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Southern Man
This puts you in a great position to be picking up and gaming other girls. She might move to fuck buddy status, but better not to call it that. If she figures you’re doing that, say you’ve realized not ready to settle down permanently yet but that doesn’t change how you feel about her. She needs some frame to allow for the possibility you’ll go (back) exclusive with her when you are ready, if she’s still around.
Of course this works better if she never was sure you were exclusive with her, but it can work this way too. Though she’ll be keeping her eyes open for someone else after awhile, in the case of most girls.
Don’t fall into the trap of trying to convince her you still care just as much, etc., or how can you if you date other girls sometimes if you do care just as much. Just say it’s where you’re at for now, with confidence and a “what will be will be” attitude. Guys and girls aren’t the same. We’re polygamous when we can be. They’re hypergamous and serial monogamous when they can be (and legally they sure as hell can be these days; the issue is their family etc. programming).
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Great post…. Its good to see somewhat more advanced tactics being addressed.
IMO, the takeaway perfectly demonstrates the most important active ingredient of game,… being sexually satisfied (i.e. having female options) which ultimately demonstrates a higher value. When its genuine, the girls will naturally sense it and gravitate to you and every other game tactic will be effortless to execute and seem to fall right into place, …. not to mention be twice as effective.
Its hard to fake, and to be done right, a harem of at least 5 girls is probably needed to maintain the animal instinct, but not seem too aggressive. If one needs to simulate sexual satisfaction, the rule of thumb should be have fun in the moment without one shred of your happiness depending on women or sex.
Desperation is a poor cologne.
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Castricv—
It’s not your Christian duty to marry under the current marriage 2.0 extremely one sided divorce 2.0 rules, with women filing for divorce on a 2.5 to 1 ratio to men. You may feel it’s your Christian duty to marry and have children. That’s fine.
Don’t marry without a prenup that mimics current day living together in the event of a divorce. When Christianity was going a lot stronger than today in this country and divorce was far more rare, women didn’t get this on top of support.
Note that that this mimicing leaves intact the full weight of feminist jacked up child support=also alimony at often more than 50% of your after tax income for two kids and her, and leaves intact her getting custody of the kids even if she files for divorce for no compelling reason, or due to her own infidelity dissolving her pair bond with you. You can’t change that. That’s plenty of commitment and burden on your shoulders in getting married.
It’s women that far more than men need to be dissuaded from divorce for stable families to long exist. Her giving up named alimony on top of what’s embedded in jacked up child support=also alimony and half of your earned money that you haven’t already spent on her in a divorce in a prenup, helps make a divorce much less likely. She has less inducement to go and more to stay. If you can’t have children or there’s a divorce after they’ve become adults, she should have returned to her career a good long time before that, at least, what with modern appliances and so on.
Don’t marry an “option to turn golddigger” girl who won’t sign such a prenup. Doing so is not your Christian duty.
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Believe me fellas, I am not confused abnout the distinction. Marriage is a horrible LEGAL proposition unless you know what you are doing and then you are still not 100% safe. Like all things worth anything in this life there is some risk and I’ve been around a good bit and can tell the flighty idiots, golddiggers, backstabbers, from the few good ones left. I agree that a prenup is a valid option. I most certainly would not be marrying if I had even the slightest inclanation to the contrary. I have been a life long never get married kind of guy so trust me when I say she is both trained and extremely loyal. I still do basic game from time to time on her and she purrs like a kitten.
I understand your frustrations and have many friends who have been ruthlessly crushed by the tilted system. I feel for them and applaud the suspicion and safety measures you take. However if you close your mind down to the institution of marriage you are forbidding yourself the possibility of something greater and absolutely dead ending your genes. (To me having a kid and then not either being married or never marrying later is the worst form of bondage. She can do whatever she wants and you still ahve to pay for the privaledge of seeing your kid on her schedule. No thank you.) Hence if you are really following “game” kids are off the menu outside of marriage. This means that the losers, betas, and idiots that are breeding will inherit everything and squeeze people like us out. If you want to be decadent and have fun and not worry, then great do it. I sure did for the last 13 years. But like the 45 year old warpig that cries about what went wrong, don’t complain about no family when you are 50. Hope all is well.
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Also, I should really do a cursory spell/grammar check before vomitting my thoughts onto this blog.
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“Don’t ever let game trump your Christian duty”
I guess Christian duty being the imitation of Christ, this is perfectly logical: Divorce 2.0 is a crucifixion.
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Whatever-
“Desperation is a poor cologne.”
Desperation is the opposite of attractive to women.
Good quote.
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This reminds me of an embarrassing situation I was in a few years ago. I’ve never told anyone about it until now. Some cops were involved, but no one got hurt. No one that shouldn’t get hurt, at least.
Oh, wait, I think maybe it’s too early to open up like this. Actually, I’d better run – I’ve got a meeting coming up and I need to change in to my suit.
See ya!
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Takeaways work. But it is a delicate issue and can be easily overdone. I have seen quite a few stunning and otherwise reasonable girls turn into unflushable lunatics.
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“Oh, wait, I think maybe it’s too early to open up like this. Actually, I’d better run – I’ve got a meeting coming up and I need to change in to my suit.”
How do you do that with a straight face, though? You have to be a great actor not to crack up.
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whatever
I think you’ll find that 5 is too large a number for the girls to consider you their boyfriend. If you want your squeezes to be romantically involved in you, three is about the limit, and you can add on a fuck buddy or two on top of that. And maybe find some time for some nights out on the prowl.
Even if you have unlimited free time, there isn’t enough time in the week to have 5 girlfriends.
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@xsplat
I agree that 5 serious girlfriends would probably spin out of control real fast. When I say Harem, i am referring to a group of girls that you have slept with or are in the process of trying to sleep with and that you keep in decent communication with.
These girls can run the range from hot girls that are hard to get a hold of and you need top game, just to lose your grip down the road –right down to girls that you can booty call at 2 in the morning when all else fails.
Many of these girls aren’t necessarily long term girlfriends, …they are flings and acquaintances that give you a constant series of options to keep you from being desperate, which allows you to always have a backup plan and the ability to keep adding new girls, while others fall off for one reason or another.
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Ok, how about:
“You know, I’ve got a confession to make. I’ve got a good feeling about you. But I’m just casually dating a few girls right now, and I told myself I wouldn’t have sex until I was sure that was the girl I really liked.”
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Interesting story about a rake and the women who have banded together with the help of the internet to bring about his demise.
http://www.westword.com/2010-04-29/news/operation-cockblock-tries-to-protect-women-s-hearts-and-pockebooks-from-this-crooked-casanova/1
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castricv
In addition to the advice already offered, I would add a suggestion that you not offer your fiancée a moral free pass in the area of divorce. I’ve posted this before on another thread, so I’ll simply link to it instead of reposting it.
Best of luck.
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I sense there’s probably broad consensus on this, but I’ll say it anyway: the ONLY reason to get married is to raise children. I don’t knock someone’s sincere religious beliefs, but I can’t recommend getting married because of one’s christian, muslim, or buddhist duty. And if you’re honestly not inclined to family life, then don’t apologize for who you are. Bang some hot chicks for me and the other guys doing the family thing. We don’t need any more men reproducing who aren’t 100% about seeing it through (to the grave). I don’t mean to insinuate in any way that doing the family thing is more noble or alpha, or the opposite. All I’m saying is, don’t do it unless its you.
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castricv,
I respect your decision to honor your commitment. But you sound as if you were regretting you had not gotten certain things out of your system. 30 for a guy is not ancient. Just remember, it is tough to make someone happy if you are not content yourself. I can see where the paranoia comes from. But girls are not your opponents. Sure, most are capable of taking care of themselves but they still need a man to love them.
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So just what is a man’s Christian duty?
It’s summarized in the Great Commandment: love the Lord with all your heart, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
If you are Christian or Jewish or Muslim, you already understand the first part; if not, you don’t care. But you can still apply the second to your neighbors, who are first your family, then your friends, then your countrymen, and finally everyone else.
It means you put others before yourself, but it doesn’t mean be a pushover or a wimp. It means you stand as undisputed head of your family, but not abuse your wife. It means providing structure and discipline for your children, but rule as a tyrant. It means you help those in need, as best you can, and you do the right thing even when no one is looking. It’s a fine line to walk, and I don’t claim to have ever been particularly good at it. But I keep trying.
It DOESN’T mean telling other people how they should live or what they should be doing. This is a frequent failing of all religions, and Christianity is no exception. I despise do-gooders; I admire those who do good.
Now what does this have to do with game? I don’t know. What I get from this blog is a lot of advice I apply to relationship management. I’ll never have a harem or bang dozens of girls in a year; at my age and station in life I don’t particularly want to. What I want is for my future relationships to be successful, whatever that means. Is that a valid goal of Christian game? Can one apply the concepts of game and still profess to be a Christian?
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ARGH…NOT rule as a tyrant. Oops.
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– castricv
By the way, you’re right – the great danger facing the West is the abdication of procreation by the intelligent, ambitious and hard-working.
There may be an afterlife or not (I’m a Catholic myself), but one thing is beyond doubt: Our descendants are our triumph over death.
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If the human dna was homogenous, then so to would be the male human condition.
It isn’t. We have dna encoded social castes. We have dna encoded game strategies.
Some of truly and surely and deep down have no interest in having kids. Some of us have just a bit. Some of us want to impregnate girls and have other husbands raise the kids.
Ever hear of the sneaky fucker strategy? That’s dna encoded also. Lots of sexual strategies are dna encoded. It’s a huge assumption to assume that we all share all the same genes and all the same drives.
We don’t. We are social insects with castes and classes.
I think we all know what kind of insect I consider myself.
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Oh, that’s just poetry. It’s as meaningful/meaningless to say that not even our descendants triumph over death.
But, but hey, if it makes you feel you have a purpose and meaning in your life, have at it.
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It’s funny how the comments can be a completely different animal than the post itself.
It’s a funny dynamic. I treat the “good girls” more like sluts and the sluts more like a good girl and everything works out well. The nice girls stick around while trying to change me and the sluts stick around and of course still act slutty…
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xsplat-
I do that to women all of the time. Tease them by pretending that I am about to tell them something interesting/fun/scandalous, then pulling away at the last minute to set the hook. The only problem is that when you do finally reveal, you better have a decent story and be able to segue the climax into something else. If you don’t tell the story properly when you do tell it or if the climax hangs in dead air, you just blew yourself out of the water.
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Interesting. Definitely not for us newbies.
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@Whatever. Oh, ok, you consider a girl you haven’t fucked yet to be in your stable. I’d only consider a girl in my stable if it was a stable situation and she was either inclined to come over on invitation or she was romantica-sexually involved with me.
But yeah, having options eases the tension a bit.
One point where I’m always in disagreement with though is a matter of degree of aloofness. Some claim that supreme aloofness is the ultimate aphrodisiac. But the other side of the coin is that a woman who is passionately fucked tends to feel passion. Aloofness is just one aspect of push and pull. If you don’t have strong passion, never show strong aloofness. No one will care.
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-xsplat.
“Oh, that’s just poetry. It’s as meaningful/meaningless to say that not even our descendants triumph over death.”
I’ll agree with you to a certain extent: not everyone wants to raise families. In many ways, childlessness saves a hell of a lot of bother. Given the way the world’s going, might even be the kinder thing to do.
But there is one big drawback. If you do not reproduce, then all your DNA, all those hard-coded strategies, intelligence and other attributes, vanish. They’re gone.
“I think we all know what kind of insect I consider myself.”
From your comments, one that does well with the lady insects (I’m not an entomologist). But still, there is a case for monogamy and family.
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All this marriage talk need GBFM to set shit straight.
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“There may be an afterlife or not (I’m a Catholic myself), but one thing is beyond doubt: Our descendants are our triumph over death.”
This is an argument for abandonment of Christianity.
Do most Christians even believe in heaven and hell anymore?
If Christianity goes, what’s the purpose to it all? Exactly as you said: for most people it will be their kids; for others their nieces/nephews perhaps, or some cause. In any case you don’t get “nihilism”, you get a set of genuine values.
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“Ronin
All this marriage talk need GBFM to set shit straight.”
You’re right – where is the great man today?
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Cap’n Bob
Type his name 3 times.
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“Cap’n Bob
Type his name 3 times.”
Wasn’t that Captain Howdy? Or Candyman?
The name’s in honour of Robert Maxwell:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell
Not sure if he was an alpha.
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Cap’n B
What if set up a lab in my apartment and set about to infecting the worlds population with bits of my dna? Does that count as leaving a meaningful legacy?
Dna is just a code. It isn’t you. You die. We, as a species, will die. Your legacy can not last. As Dr. House put it, mortality is mortality.
If genetic code is so important to you, why not just make regular contributions to the sperm bank?
And if it’s cultural code and meme space that is your thing, why not work on being a popular novelist or screewriter?
The REASONS you give for kids are just RATIONALIZATIONS for emotions that you have. They don’t actually MEAN anything.
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-xsplat
“What if set up a lab in my apartment and set about to infecting the worlds population with bits of my dna? Does that count as leaving a meaningful legacy?”
Biologically speaking, it certainly would. You’ll probably disagree.
But anyway, we’re getting away from more pressing topics, like the absence of Beta of the Month competition this year; and why GBFM hasn’t posted today.
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God damn, this landing strip-ed ho is in the wrong line of work!
Peter
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Cap’n “Biologically speaking, it certainly would.”
Ya, well, that’s actually my point. Biologically it would, but not emotionally.
Your argument is one of personal emotional meaning, or it of nothing at all.
Who CARES that the genes don’t get passed on.
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@Xsplat
I use Harem or Stable for lack of a better term. It can be more like a Stable without a door sometimes, haha. But even without having sex with some of them yet, there is always a connection and some level of intimacy with every girl in there. The girls will run the range from 5/6’s to 9’s.
Not every girl can be a one night stand and I can’t expect to have 9’s on lockdown to the same extent as a bootycall 6. The 9’s take time and require a cool, slow hand sometimes – with no desperation stink…. But the options to get laid elsewhere keep the confidence and attitude where it needs to be.
…And having 9’s in the works, even if not having fucked them yet, helps maintain the right frame of mind when meeting new 9’s, which might end up being the one I fuck.
the hotter girls need a stronger dose of aloofness which means weekends where you don’t call them, and you’ll need alternate plans… the more pans in the fire, the more the plans take care of themselves and girls will be getting blown off without even thinking about it, which just reinforces things.
I agree with the aloofness/ passion thinking. Aloof to the point of being oblivious would never work, unless the guy’s looks were a 10… I think you still have to be open to flirting and sending the right undertone of sex, as well as be ready to take action and seize an opportunity if it presents itself ….but also be indifferent enough to walk away and not care if nothing happens.
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“Don’t ever let game trump your Christian duty”
A good point. Marriage is the basis of our civilisation, and if we all went down the route of endless promiscuity (the reductio ad absurdum of Game without morals), society would collapse. This might appeal to many (including CH, by his own admission), but as for me, I think Western Civ is worth preserving.
The glory of game? Twofold:
Firstly, increases your options and gives the chance to court higher status women.
Secondly, even if you’re married or in a LTR, you can use Game to keep your lady interested. CH had a post on this a while back, using correspondence from “Dave From Hawaii”. In fact, seems that Game is invaluable in married life: More Game, less divorce.
And then, at the right time, we can tell our descendants about this website and save them an awful lot of trouble.
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P.S. If you’re having sex with every single girl your gaming, then your sights are set too low, and its time to move up a league.
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All this talk about requiring sex in order to gain aloofness misses the point, and somewhat leaves the AFC outside a vicious circle. For one thing, there’s the “Something About Mary” solution of wanking (in her hair) before you go out. Secondly, it’s more of a mental attitude than it is a physical need. Just convince yourself that you’re not getting sex tonight, and that you don’t need or want it. Works wonders on that stench (I think it is a literal stench) of desperation. You truly don’t need a woman in order to be happy. But to get a woman, you surely need to not need one. Kind of like a loan.
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In other words, Cap’n, having kids is only meaningful to you because it’s meaningful to you. It’s not meaningful BECAUSE genes get passed on. If it were, simply passing genes on would be equally emotionally meaningful. I think we can agree that we don’t feel act or behave that way.
Since this is the case, for people who do not already have that innate feeling that having kids is meaningful and gives purpose, the reason you give won’t translate into the other person feeling or deriving meaning or purpose.
The meaning isn’t ABOUT something, it is simply a meaning, in and of and about itself.
To put it in poetic terms, we value friendship not because friendship is meaningful, but because we MAKE friendship meaningful. We DECIDE that it is meaningful. Or, we can be Machiavelian about it. That’ works too.
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” …if you’re honestly not inclined to family life….”
To be honest, most of us probably have an inclination to become parents (it’s in our DNA) and husbands.
The urge can be stifled or thwarted (as in the case of the benighted Omegas and lesser betas with their gulag-like existence of endless rejection) or it can be diverted (if you are an alpha feasting on the cornucopia of Western womanhood, why would you dream of disrupting it all for monogamy and a family saloon)?
But it leads most men, even the super-alphas, to marriage and family in the end. Even he might be, in ten or twenty years, a beaming father, boring everyone with tales of raising toddlers and going to Pixar’s latest release (God forbid).
Whatever route you choose, let Game be your guide.
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“Or, we can be Machiavelian about it. That’ works too.”
Reckon we can agree on these:
1. Being Machiavelian works particularly well in relation to the ladies.
2. Regardless of your genetic objectives, Game is invaluable in achieving them.
Before I encountered this website, I knew neither of these.
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– Southern man
“Is that a valid goal of Christian game? Can one apply the concepts of game and still profess to be a Christian?”
Sure it is. If you use game to find the right woman, and to keep you both happy, then it’s a good and righteous thing.
I think that all the talk about harems and after-action reports misses the point sometimes. Men are born alpha, but society whips it out of us. CH, in my case at least, had a major role in teaching me something that I should always have known.
But having Game doesn’t mean we’re obliged to have multiple LTRs. It merely means that we have the ability to command the respect and interest of worth women. What we choose to do with this is up to us and our morals : Don Juan or Family Patriarch.
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Back to the OP, yet another game I played accidentally. When I first got divorced, I decided I didn’t want meaningless sex because I’d already had 10 years of it waiting for my kids to grow up. So I patiently bided my time until the right girl came along. Two women offered me sex within 24 hours, one of whom I was dumping and the other of whom I was selecting to continue with. I turned them both down, which just amped up their reactions. That I needed neither of them made them want me tremendously, and made the one I ended up with relaxed about the “pressure” for sex, which ultimately made her more relaxed about having it.
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> Gras
> Interesting story about a rake and the women who have banded together with the help of the internet to bring about his demise.
> http://www.westword.com/2010-04-29/news/operation-cockblock-tries-to-protect-women-s-hearts-and-pockebooks-from-this-crooked-casanova/1
That’s really something. I’m reminded of
Jeffrey Marsalis:
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=8043012&page=1
and Helg Sgarbi:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/4963397/Swiss-gigolo-Helg-Sgarbi-jailed-for-blackmailing-wealthy-women.html
Guys who systematize can really max it out.
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If you are marriage minded, use game to attract younger hotter women enough that they’ll marry you with a prenup that mimics living together in the event of a divorce.
True. But a prenup of the kind I’m recommending will help reduce the odds of divorce as well. The chivalry coattail riding idea that a prenup will make a divorce more likely is rather ludicrous, given that women file for divorce 2.5x as often as men, usually for what amount to serial monogamy wanderlust reasons, though justified (as American feminism has made so easy for women to do) in various ways.
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right before you put your cock in her vaginal region when she is spread wide, take it away and say *not!!* zlozlzlzozlzlzllzllz
then you’ll be sure to get her into bed!!
then, when you have her in bed, doggy style naked, and you’re about to put your cock in, just put a little in and take it out and go “no cock for you!”
i guarantees this will get you laid lzolzlzlzlzlzll!!!
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This is the inner game. Take yourself away. To never, ever let her think that you want her more than she does you. You withdraw before she withdraws. End the kiss before she does. End the date before she does. Correspond with her less than she corresponds with you.
Leave her while she’s high on you, not waiting until she’s sick of the sight of you.
To tease her until she craves you. To flip the script so that she chases and you don’t.
That’s what I always saw in the word ‘seduction’: frustrating someone by giving them a small taste of what only you can give, stirring them up into frustrated lustful madness that ensures they are powerless against resisting you.
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@ ch – would you say a lot of guys do this instinctively. When I meet guys for the first time I will get constant IOIs and ways to get my attention. I respond to a few of them. Then BAM! The pull back. No longer trying to get my attention, acting aloof etc.
I feel like it’s an instinct to pull back to further get my attention and it works bc the hamster wheel will start turning.
I just don’t know what to do in at this point to express my interest.
This happens with 99% of the male attention I receive. I start to think everyone is beta now.
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Southern Man: I’m pretty sure many concepts of Game are within Christianity.
Colossians 3:18 (NASB) Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (NASB) But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
1 Timothy 2:11-12 (NASB) Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Peter 3:1 (NASB) In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
Less likely in any diluted forms to render the religion meaningless that have been modified to fit current ideology. Sorry, “interpretations”.
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@ schmoe
If one can fake it and mentally convince themselves and others, then whatever works, works.
It is all mental, but personally I think its tough to fake. Just as one example, …when those “overtly sexual girls” as CH described play their “ruse designed to entrap less alpha men who lack control over their horniness”…. The test can be failed before you even know what hit you. Having an indifference with a true foundation is the only way to overcome that.
Its a circle that can be cracked into… learn and use game to get easy low level girls, then tweak game and build up the stable while gradually increasing the quality of girls.
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@Pupu,
Your name reminds me of anal sex.
@Bhetti,
Why ‘Bhetti’ and not ‘Betty’?
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Well, if we’re bringing out Bible verses: for those of you in marriages or LTRs, Ephesians 5:33 is key: “However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.” Most men already realize that women need unconditional love; modern women have forgotten that men require unconditional respect. Without unconditional respect, the husband doesn’t show love; without unconditional love, the wife doesn’t feel respect, and the relationship spirals out of control. Recognition of this and stopping what author Emerson Eggerichs calls the “crazy cycle” will do wonders for your marriage / LTR. Too bad all the church-based counseling I had DURING the marriage never mentioned this. Or perhaps I just was so caught up in my beta misery that I wasn’t paying attention.
That said, I’m well aware of the above verses. The question is, how much of that is Christian, how much is Pauline, and how much is just the Roman and Jewish cultures of the day? I have a lot of faith that Paul got it mostly right (the above certainly indicates that he was well aware of the dynamics of relationships) but he does show a bit of culture bias from time to time.
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This is an interesting example of mimicking “natural alpha” behavior.
A natural alpha doesn’t need sex. If he doesn’t get it tonight, he’ll get some tomorrow. Sex is like eating. Chill out; they’ll be more food on the table tomorrow.
The betas attempt to wolf down any woman they can get. They are like paupers at a king’s dinner table.
Women can sense this. They realize that a man who doesn’t need to have sex with them must have something going on.
Also, rejecting women makes them doubt themselves. Game is about making women doubt themselves. “Am I sexy enough, smart enough, cool enough?”
By withdrawing from a woman, you are making her prove her worth to you. Women need validation more than anything else. And thus they will throw themselves on you in their effort to obtain it.
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Southern Man: I go nowhere near claiming I’m au fait with the inner workings of Christian theology. All I was reminding you of was that gender realist ideas are basic to Christianity. The intent of pickupartistry doesn’t have divinity to it, but what it discovers about female sexuality is a simple reminder of what you should already know.
What a man refuses to see in religion, he will be forced to see in science.
Pardon being patronising, which I’m sure I’ve done.
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Jacko:
Well, it isn’t as simple as a pretentious affectation.
It’s pronounced differently in my head, a transliterated version of the urdu word for daughter or woman.
I am aware that Betty is what people will probably see. A little joke, I suppose, about assumptions. Being friendly to English-speaking eyes, whilst retaining a distant cultural identity.
How’s that for overanalysis?
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Mike
Close, but not quite.
Women sense if the man doesn’t need to have sex with her. Maybe the man is used to getting better.
Appearing to not be horny is not the turn on. It’s a status thing. It’s not about appearing satiated at all times. It’s not about being indifferent. It’s about being indifferent to her.
In order to pull off a James Bond type of aloofness, you have to exude a sense of being permanently horny. Your rakish grin should project your rakish thoughts.
It’s not enough to just be a monk about it.
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I’ve had good results with “I never XXX on the first date” e.g. “I never have sex on the first date” or “I never kiss someone I just met on the dance floor.”
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“Sure, most are capable of taking care of themselves but they still need a man to love them.”
No no no, that is a big misconception.
Women need a man not only for love, but actually… for everything.
When was the last time a woman came up with an original thought?
With a technological innovation?
With a new idea?
What do women understand about science? Politics? Economy? The law?
Nothing, nothing, nothing…
The only time a woman knows something, is when a beta has been explaining it to her into the smallest detail, while he was trying to impress her with his knowledge.
And then they still forget the most of it immediately, if it is not directly applicable for their own needs or profit.
99,99% of al technological innovation has been done by men.
Ironically, it is exactly the type of men that have brought to humanity all the progress and technology (the nerds), that are the type of men most despised by women, because they are not “alpha’s”.
They all want the newest car, laptop, cellphone, but they loathe the guys who made it all possible.
If it was not for the technological obsessions of men, all women would still be walking around in the woods, dressed in dry grass, searching for mushrooms.
And the women KNOW this, that’s why they play hard to get, dress sexy, make sex scarce, and devote their life to being manipulative and catching a good provider.
Because sex is the only asset and manipulation is the only skill they have in this life.
And above all: of course pretend that they don’t need men, and that they can do everything best themselves.
What a joke!
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In sales training, they call it “the take-it-away close”.
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What is with all this crap-talk about marriage at this blog?
If you get married, fine.
…but don’t try to spin getting married as anything other than a beta move.
Any dude who has options will wind up cheating on his wife (especially after she gets fat from having kids).
The temptation is too great.
Good luck keeping the fat wife from finding out about the young hottie you are banging on the side.
…and good luck keeping the fat wife from raping you in divorce court when she does find out about the young hottie.
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Ok so I want the threads opinion on this. At what point in the evening does the married man take off his wedding ring while seducing his mistress. a) never. finger fuck her with it on after all it is your married status that spurs her on and augments your status b) only for vigorous sex, sweat makes things slip and you don’t want to lose it so it is hard to retrieve, especially before showing up home Sunday morning. c) before the date starts; you want to control the pussy you need to feed its illusions man, not piece and brand it with hard reality.
Advice. Insights are welcome.
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Yep. It’s a strange tactic but it works.
When I met my current girlfriend at a weekend party some time back, I chatted with her only 5-10 minutes, and then excused myself to greet some newly arrived friends. After 1 hr with said friends (and totally ignoring her), I found her again, hurriedly handed her my business card, told her that I had to leave because me and said friends were going to hit a nightclub next. I didn’t invite her but told her to get in touch with me soon.
Next thing you know she emails me at work first thing Monday morning and says we should go for some drinks. Much later I learned that no less than 5 guys had approached her that weekend, but she decided to go with me as I “seemed like the most interesting guy”.
Besides the small talk, I think the takeaways here were the i) Social Proof ii) The Takeaway.
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Northern Observer,
I will pretend your post isn’t reprehensible and answer it honestly.
If your mistress already knows you are married, keep your ring on. Sheesh, what a beta move. You should be acting as if the ring is simply another piece of jewelry, don’t call attention to it or let her know you’re thinking about anything but her. She’ll get extra kicks from seeing and feeling the ring.
If you’re seducing her for the first time and you actually are thinking of her as “mistress” material, you still keep the ring on, it’s much more important to tell the truth to your mistress than your wife, because if your mistress thinks you are not married and then finds out you are she will tell your wife you cheated! Furthermore, taking the ring off will leave a mark on your finger, a tan line or a change in skin texture, which experienced women will spot quickly.
If you just want to game her into a one-night stand your odds might be improved if you take the ring off, but you still shouldn’t imagine you are fooling her, and you should be aware that even if you hide your ID and aren’t driving your own car, unless you are in a strange city she will not have any difficulty finding out who you are and making trouble for you if she wants to.
Finally, keeping the ring on makes it much easier, outside of pickup situations like bars and clubs, to start a conversation with a woman and flirt with her, because of the deniability it gives you.
Of course, if you really have any game you should try it on your wife first and see if you can improve that relationship. And if you have kids with her, you are probably going to regret cheating (other regular commenters will be better able than me to tell you exactly how much).
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E,
The point is not to let her get fat. If you do that you deserve the resulting misery.
My wife has had 4 kids and at 48 her body is almost as amazing as it was at 20 (she was 10 pounds overweight then which knocked her down from 9 to 8, but staying out of the sun, exercise, and losing the extra weight means that her body at 48 is still honestly an 8 — think 37-26-38 with firm DDs).
If she had gotten fat it would have been 10 times harder not to cheat, because women worse-looking than her don’t even tempt me.
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Since we’re quoting the bible I thought I’d throw in:
1 Cor 7:9 (second part of verse) for it is better to marry than to burn. ( most people believe this means burn with passion but it may be burn in hell…I’m no bible scholar…)
1 Gen 3:16 (also second part of verse and it’s God talking to Eve after the Fall) and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. (I actually find this bible verse a little arousing…I’m a weirdo huh?)
For some good erotica read Songs of Solomon. GBFM prob won’t like it though because it doesn’t mention butt sex.
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“It’s not enough to just be a monk about it.”
Not so. If you’re good looking and cool, being a monk drives them crazy.
My best friend hates women so much that even having sex with one repulses him. He doesn’t like men, either. He just really views women with contempt. It’s incredible.
Women throw themselves at him – hot women. He’s good looking, but certainly not a 9 or a 10. He’s so disinterested and aloof that the women become more aggressive.
I was with him a strip club when a stripper begged him to let her give him a free lap dance. He refused, and she said, “I want to take you home with me, take shots of tequila with you, and have promiscuous sex.”
I’ve picked up strippers before, but had never seen anything like this. He has an aura about him that makes women feel like they must penetrate it.
In London, most men are like my friend. Thus, you see why English women behave so outrageously. Being “normal” wont’ get any man’s attention.
Not caring is often the most effective strategy. Indeed, most of game is based upon not caring. Be aloof. It works.
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Jacko,
What does Jacko remind you of?
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Pupu–
Heh.
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Northern Observer
Don’t cheat. Have an understanding, should be before marrying but certainly before having kids (child support=also alimony). Not for several years at least at all, then only rarely, only just sex (with affection), and always w/her veto over the particular woman if she wants to know, or feels you drifting away from her emotionally or sexually.
As for your wedding ring question, don’t remove it. That’s beta and lacks integrity. It can also get you into big trouble e.g. making her more likely to revenge out you w/your wife when your fling discovers the truth. Or if you have the agreement I recommend and she learns that, to revenge claim you’re in love w/her and planning to leave your wife, etc.
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Mike, from my experience, being aloof is not nearly enough. It might be because I’m below average in looks.
It might be that no matter what attitude your friend had, aloof or not, the girls would want to jump his bones.
For me, I need to show and generate passion, humor, sensitivity, devil may care attitude, thrill, eroticism, and on and on. Being aloof and indifferent would get me not one inch in any direction I need to go.
This is why I say that the ability to be aloof is only one tool in the arsenal – a value of only about 10%. Maybe 20.
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On that note, Mike, I did some travelling sales with a guy with model handsome looks. He was anything but aloof. Straightforward as hell, and every night fucked a new girl.
Anything but aloof.
He’d chase down girls and strike up a conversation and fuck them the same day.
It was mostly his looks.
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By chase down, I mean literally get into a jog and run up to them. With any lame excuse, such as “Hey, do you have a can opener I can borrow”?
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“As I mentioned above, the subclass of girls this takeaway would work on are the badgirl sluts who are practically dragging you to the bedroom.”
I know CH is the master of p*ssy. But whenever a girl is dragging me to the bedroom I go willingly and am never disappointed. Of course, I am not looking to make any of these girls my girlfriend.
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@ Southern Man
“I despise do-gooders; I admire those who do good.”
+++
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This blog is good enough for a book.
On one hand it would be cool to have the book
on the other hand, CH literary success = gina tingle adaptability and tactic transparency.
And that raises another question….
Seeing how there is a “product life cycle” in business, then there must be a “routine life cycle” before it become less effective.
Also, maybe just like how the effectiveness of pharmaceuticals begins diminish over time due to the placebo effect, a similar effect is noticed on new game
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@Bhetti,
Thank you.
@Pupu,
Jacko is short for Jack-o’-lantern. I want you to think of Halloween, and strange light flickering over peat bogs.
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It is much easier to make good men wise than to make bad men good.
~Henry Fielding, 1749
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Before I knew what they were, I used takeaways all the time on girls with boyfriends. They’re an ideal target since your risk of failure is already high and it’s less likely to be misconstrued as flirting if she’s around her friends or her boyfriend.
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Another laughable attempt at playing the PUA. Reading your hacked advice is like taking a trip down memory lane, amusing though to play Mystery Method bingo with your reguritated crap…but not as amusing as your ‘advice’ this horse shit is only for advanced players! STFU you keyboard jockey, the newb is yourself.
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walawala,
She’s playing the same game you are, but you are more aware of it than she is. Keep it up, but be stricter. You need to withdraw so much that she gives you a more unmistakable IOI than she has ever given you before; then swoop in decisively. The little push-pulls are in her comfort zone and make you look indecisive; when you are unnterested you should be very uninterested, and when you decide to be interested again you should push things to a new level rather than just hit the ball back across the net.
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If a guy acts disinterested in me, I assume he is disinterested. So it can back fire…but what does he care really…there are many other chicks, yes?
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Jacko,
Hi, pumpkin.
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anoukange
Not if he’s really set his hook into you first you likely won’t.
That is key, and why this isn’t a technique for beginners. He has to already have demo’d higher value, hopefully also social proof by your seeing another hot girl return his flirting previously or at this juncture, negged you as well, which is attention but of the teasing, slightly or a bit more than that (depending on how icy you initially are) barbed kind, and built comfort with him in you as well, by e.g. story telling (which should also be DHVing) or picking up on what you’ve said in an emotionally insightful way.
This is push/pull away, or hot/ cold. The push or hot phase has to have come first.
It most definitely works anoukange, on just about all girls. IF the hook or real interest in the guy has been set deep enough first.
(Girls vary a lot in how deep that hook initially has to be for it to work though. Another reason this is risky for beginners – you have to sense that fairly accurately usually to not have a high failure rate on this technique.)
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@Jay…This same thing you describe has happened to me twice in the last 6 months.
In one case, I was AFC and became a panting beta. Then the “target” who I’d been gaming and was pulling away came over for Christmas Eve dinner. We had both planned to go out separately after dinner but the plan I had was to bang her first….It didn’t quite work out that way. After dinner, while watching a movie and I’m trying to make my move and initiate kino, she gets up and does her make up, takes a call from her friend and then leaves. She spent more time doing her make up than sitting with me. Then…I discovered “Game”…realized I had been a beta AFC and started turning things around. With her, I shut her down, complete NO CONTACT, nothing zero, nada. She made initial contact, I ignored now she gives these soulful hurt angry looks when we see each other. It’s great.
The second was more recent…high interest, then started distancing starting one day with de-tagging herself from a photo. I sussed out something odd, texted CH’s famous: “Please no gameplaying”. It was a “takeaway” of sorts. She became defensive. I began pulling away, slowly slowly. The more I pulled away, the more she tried to get my attention. When after a few weeks, I threw her a bone and chatted or danced with her, her interest would wane.
The most recent takeaway was ignoring then swooping in to chat and dance….then leading her to other parts of the party, grabbing ass….
Next day…she was back to pulling away, so I stepped back.
What I’m having the most trouble with is how to literally “fake” disinterest. When I ignore the “target”…she gets more ansy. When I re-engage the target…she pulls back.
While this was all going on, I banged two other girls and number closed and met up with two other girls.
My game is improving.
My problem with this takeaway concept is when do I know enough to give up?
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@ Bhetti:
The proper word should be ‘Beti’ .
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Polymath, great post. The mixed signals I get are interesting because they happen when I’m pulling back. When I respond…she disappears. I’ve deleted her number and IM contact and have taken major steps back. Have scaled back from giving a lot of attention, to giving it out sparingly….and randomly. Sometimes she hugs me, other times just turns her head when I reach out. It’s a strange dance between us and is unspoken. Neither refers to the NO CONTACT. My unpredictability seems to hit a nerve. But still not a major outreach on her part. It’s a strange wishy-washiness.
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