I'm not going to claim there aren't SOME Americans this applies to, I'd have to see evidence that there are MILLIONS of Americans that never met a non-white person. There probably aren't that many people who have never even visited a moderately sized city.
Yeah, seemed more like a goodbye for now type of scenario. I also think it showed they never meant Apu to be shown in a negative light and they love him as a character but yeah, people upset would never see it that way.
There was literally evidence posted on the previous page of this thread. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/25/three-quarters-of-whites-dont-have-any-non-white-friends/ This isn't even a particularly controversial thing to say. Most people are underexposed to travel and diversity. It is extremely well documented.
The breaking of Lisa's character, the doubling down on not caring about Apu's legitimate criticism, Lisa keeping a picture of Apu next to her solely for the point to be proven and not for any single point of comedy - when top 100 / top 20 / top 10 lists are made about the worst ever Simpsons moments, this is going to top quite a few of them.
You have to be friends with someone to have "met" them? As a person in a rural and almost all white area, I don't actually have any current black friends (had 2 in high school but both moved away(also unless you count inlaws, my cousin married a black dude I'm great friends with but I consider him family instead of friend)), but I've met hundreds of non-white people.
Ok, that's you. The population of the US is about 325 million. Even 1 percent is 3.25 million. There are people who never leave their neighborhoods, let alone towns.
Okay, that clarifies things a bit, I didn't think you were being that literal. Yes, most Americans have visually witnessed someone of a different race. I don't have explicit data on it, but that's a safe assumption. I guess what I'm struggling with here is how that is remotely relevant to any conceivable conversation. Any conversation at all. It is *definitely* irrelevant to how people form their judgements of other ethnicities and cultures. But I could be missing something else.
Bumblebee man is obviously a Chapulin Colorado parody, but is also a Mexican stereotype, with Hank Azaria "broken" spanish included(his parents speak some old spanish dialect), i dont remember Chespirito going Ay chihuahua! no no. The 22 exits to springfield episode clearly reflects the stereotype, horny latino, chihuahua, el jarabe tapatio. I don't care and i know you would have to look real hard in the country to find somebody that does. I think the Top gear incident has been the only time where like a lot of people really got offended. The Beto Velez thing is different, since is an insult of the country, although one that is funny and that people would have probably liked. Velez cracked some jokes about the neoliberals so he maybe isn't that fond of Americans directly saying Mexico is worse than them.
Possible solution: What about introducing a character that pokes fun at Hank Azarea to be voiced by an indian american comedian? Let him and maybe a team of writers who take issue with Apu write the jokes and shape the character.
My grandmother lived and died in a small town in Texas. Everything she know about people of color came from what she saw on Cops.
Simpson’s don’t even have the balls to put the political critique into the broadcasted show, they just put it on their social media accounts.
Like I said, I'm sure there are SOME people have never met a non white person, but most people who live in neighborhoods small and rural enough to not have any non-white people are going to have to leave it for SOMETHING. Just because you bring up some stat that 1 percent of Americans is 3.25 million people, it doesn't prove that many people have never met a non-white person. I mean this is the kind of logic that Trump and his lackeys use to "prove" large scale voter fraud. "If even one percent of people vote illegally that's millions of votes!" "Ok, what evidence do you have that one percent of people vote illlegally?" It's relevant to the conversation Labor is having, since it's a direct response to his post.
The documentary mentions that the Indian-American actor cast as Apu's nephew suggested a similar joke and it got rejected.
So I overheard my Fiance speaking with her family about this (she's Indian) and their opinion is pretty much "Who gives a shit." They've never had a problem with Apu and actually find his portrayal pretty accurate. (Her Dad and Uncle owned Gas Stations, and they made BANK.) If anything they were annoyed that because this one dude finds Apu offensive that suddenly they're also supposed to be outraged by it. Who gives a shit. Also, as an avid Simpsons fan that has seen every episode multiple times (I pretty much watched it everyday for about 10 years) Apu's portrayal is anything but Negative. He's portrayed as one of the smartest, most responsible, hard working characters on the show. There's an entire episode dedicated to how he portrays more American Values than American Citizens do, one where he's painted as the most Eligible Bachelor in Springfield, and another where every Husband is jealous of him because of how well he treats his wife. Granted, there was one episode where he cheated on her, but nobody's perfect, and that fault has nothing to do with his race.
In many years of awful Simpsons moments, this might be one of the worst. This show is officially a shadow of its former, intellectual self. Well done, everyone.
They should watch the documentary where many working Indian american actors/comics explained their problems with the character. And there wasn't a point in the documentary that demanded that other indians be outraged by it. It really is a great documentary and it details exactly who gives a shit: indian americans who were harassed with the mocking accent popularized by the character and actors who are routinely asked to perform with the same accent. is your fiancé Indian or Indian American? I think that makes a difference on the reception of the character. A person who grew up in India wouldn't have been bullied with the accent like many american kids were, for instance
I would have liked to discuss this with you, but I'm pretty much done with this thread for obvious reasons.
I mean, I hate to have my well thought out post be ignored because another poster didn’t make a great reply. The documentary explained very reasonably “who gives a shit?” and why anyone with basic empathy should, not just Indians like your fiancé and her fam
Sure, I'll come back in here. I never saw the Documentary personally, so this is going based off what you (and she) told me. One of her sisters saw parts of it but wasn't impressed by it. She was made fun of too for her accent, but her main takeaway is "People are dicks, if they don't ridicule you for one thing, they'll ridicule you for another." Also, Hollywood typecasting Minorities? Is that breaking news? I think that's a much bigger issue that shouldn't be pinned on Apu, but on Hollywood in general. There's dozens of article out there of Minorities being typecast on their race, and to use specific phrases (Me love you long time, Ohhh Hell Naw!} "Thank you, come again!" Is Apu's catch phrase, in a show where EVERY CHARACTER has their own. Also, Apu is the most recognized Indian person on American TV, so of course he's going to be the name people drop to get their point across. When you want something specific you don't describe it using an obscure icon, you use a universally known one.
You should watch the doc, it’s pretty funny. Like I said before, a lot of people get hung up on Apu but it’s s good convo about representation
Oh wow, why did he go to Whoopi of all people to talk about blackface? One of those guys in the documentary mentioned the Simpsons makes fun of all people, but I can't recall any sideye shit with black folks, but all there really was the doctor, Bleeding Gums, and Drederick Tatum. Well I stopped watching Simpsons since 98.
Ultimately how I feel reading this. I like the character of Apu, and growing up watching The Simpsons as a kid, I feel like through Apu I did learn a little bit about Indian culture and he's definitely more stable than other character's portrayals on the show. I admit it's a more complicated issue than I originally gave credit after reading responses here from people who bring up valid points about real-world consequences so I'm not saying that anyone that does feel mad. Undeniably the response is awful though, and honestly, if this is all they had to say then they were better off not saying anything at all. If Simpsons would have had the dignity to go out while they were still strong (Around seasons ~9-10), there wouldn't be an issue at all.
I'll add it to the list. You know now that I think about it. (without revealing too much about myself) I share the same name and ethnicity of the most famous person in the U.S. of my race. It was brought up a lot by my peers, teachers, and strangers when I was a kid and even sometimes today. So I guess in a way I can kind of relate to that experience. I'll have to check it out and see.
so your fiancé and her sister were born in America? and while "hollywood typecasting minorities" isn't breaking news, it certainly is relevant to a working entertainer like Hari and the rest featured in the documentary isn't it? Aren't they allowed to voice their feelings? It's unfortunate that you seem so dismissive of their well laid out issues with limited representation because of second hand opinion from someone who only saw parts of the doc. Your indian folks have every right to not be offended by Apu but their opinion doesn't invalidate the very real experiences and feelings expressed by the indian and indian americans in the documentary who aren't feeling Apu being voiced by a white dude doing a stereotypical accent He went to Whoopi because of her blackface collection of what she called "negrobillia". I love that Hari gave her an Apu toy to add to her collection. The Simpsons for the most part really didn't lean on black stereotypes or at least any ONE black stereotype. Most black characters were either parody characters or just funny Simpsons characters like Carl and Lou. Like, Carl has a funny voice but it isn't an stereotypically black voice, it's just a funny cartoon voice and the same sould have been done for Apu
Is it just immigrant the stereotype that people find offensive about Apu? Franchisee who works long hours and has a large family etc? EDIT: Whoops I didn't see the video that was made about this, will have to check it out Here's the link if anyone like me has no idea what this is about: https://vimeo.com/244914735
I don’t remember when they got added, but Carl and Lou are in practically every episode I remember. Not huge roles, but consistant and probably worth adding to that list.
Carl?! I thought I forgot about somebody. Edit: I forgot about Lou too. I haven't watched an episode in like a couple years at least.
I always found his short in the 22 shorts episode was more than anything about the absurdity of his real life being as zany as his goofy sketches, tho i do guess El jarabe tapatio playing in his house and him having a chihuahua dog as a pet might be overkill. tho, Funny thing about the chihuahua, weird to think chihuahuas eventually became the signature pet of rich white girls and even the simpsons made jokes about it (like that scene with a white girl so rich the chihuahua in her purse had a purse with a tinier chihuahua on it).
They are being dismissive of their issues, because they don't see it as an issue. Even after seeing parts of the documentary, they don't think Apu is a big deal. They dealt with the same kind of racist Apu jokes too, the same accent jokes, the same "Your Dad owns a Gas Station, can I have a Slurpee." jokes too. Their position is.. "We dealt with this shit too... get over it. We're not going to blame our problems on a cartoon character." As far as the work thing goes, they have no sympathy because any one of them would LOVE to get paid thousands of dollars to do an Apu accent, but they don't have the luxury of turning down jobs because they're offended by it.
In retrospect you might be right, in fact i'm pretty sure you are, the last few seconds of that shot made no sense otherwise.
I'd say the mexican representation in The Simpsons is awful. The only mexican character I can think of is Bumblebee man, and, granted I stopped watching the show decades ago, but unlike characters like Apu, he never became anything more than a throw away sight gag in the background. But part of the reason why I don't spend time harping on the Simpsons for the terrible representation it has for mexicans or hispanics is because we have some great representation elsewhere. The zeigeist of what being hispanic is doesn't stem from the simpsons. People ITT who are clearly hardcore fans who have watched 20 seasons keep bringing up personality quirks about Apu that sound like pop culture quiz night replies, when the problem is all about how people who haven't seen the simpsons in 20 years still immediately think "Thank you, come again!" when they think of Indians in pop culture. They think of a character who boasts about how good being shot feels, because indians get shot a lot at convenience stores. Apu is still one of the most visible Indian icons. If, when people thought about Mexicans or Hispanics, they instantly went to bumblebee man, fuck yeah I'd have a problem. Of course, this question is being asked insincerely, because the video in question directly addresses it. People keep just "asking questions' explicitly answered in the video they refuse to watch.
Heh well, if only everyone and anyone who got treated by racist individuals would just "get over it", huh. If they don't want to voice their concerns and don't want to fight back, their prerogative, but don't make light of anyone not willing to relent to systemic racism and who would fight its symptoms any chance they can get.
