1. TheGhost

    TheGhost
    Member

    Of course it's a black culture. How many black hip hop archivist are there?

    I didn't even know there are Hip Hop archivist. For all I know she is the only one.

    I can name 20 people from the hip hop community from the late 80's and early 90's that I would say is either as knowledgeable or more knowledgeable simply from being there at that time (then again she could have been there too back then)

    But are they qualified to be a archivist or whatever? No.

    An easy neutral answer for me would be someone like Ed Lover.
     
  2. RastaMentality

    RastaMentality
    Member OP

    I really don’t see the point of it either like ok? that’s great. nobody said homegirl wasn’t qualified.
     
  3. Again you're choosing to completely ignore/not read what several posters have said about this topic, and have come to your own conclusion about it. Many people are talking about this systemically. I don't know why you keep repeating this line

    "Again, please explain to me how this isn't regressive to tell a woman who's spent her adult life working on this subject that she's allowed to only take her career so far due to no real fault of her own?"

    When I literally said in the post you're responding to that this isn't what everyone is calling for. Many are looking at this in the broader sense as to why there wasn't black person chosen. Was this position even open to external hires? If it was were there truly a lack of black applicants? etc... Very few people in this thread are saying she should step down, and I don't think anyone has said she isn't qualified.
     
  4. My main reason for wanting it added, is that a lot of posters are assuming that this whole section was created because of her, and are using that as part of the justification for her hiring, when that isn't really the case.
     
  5. Lothars

    Lothars
    Member

    it's fairly outrageous because she's extremely qualified and passionate about hip hop. So what happens if nobody else applied for the job? Or if none of the candidates were black? Should she not even be considered? There is more that we don't know including if anyone else was considered but I don't think it's fair to automatically assume that she stole the job from someone else. I'd feel the exact same way for other jobs like this.
     
  6. Biestmann

    Biestmann
    Member

    The post goes over the founding history of the museum and the history of the individual this dispute is centered around. There have been multiple discussions within this very thread about who is in charge of the museum and how it came to be, and plenty of posters seemingly unaware of the curator's history in the field. Which is no surprise, given the OP offered but reactionary tweets to her hiring. All this information being added to it will make it easier for people to decide where they stand in this matter.
     
  7. nel e nel

    nel e nel
    Member

    This gave me very mixed feelings.
     
  8. Royalan

    Royalan
    Buy Bionic. Please. Moderator

    And that's a problem. Because while there might not be many Hip Hop archivists (which...how would we even know how many there were? Again, that's the problem,), Hip Hop is still relatively new as an artform. We're not digging through the troughs of ancient history here. So I don't really buy this idea that black academics who are incredibly knowledgeable in Hip Hop (of which there are a-plenty) couldn't curate a meaningful exhibit.
     
  9. Loudninja

    Loudninja
    Member

    Apparently we are not qualified to talk about our own culture.
     
  10. Sho_Nuff82

    Sho_Nuff82
    Member

    I guess when I first opened up the thread, I was looking at it from an academic perspective. I've met history PhD students. It's a thankless job. My friend's wife recently dropped out of a program after 7 years because there was no end in sight and no job prospects beyond that. And she's a white woman studying European history.

    In my field (biotech), to mirror the obgyn analogy before, you'd never tell someone they were ill-suited for cancer research or diabetes research because their family wasn't afflicted by the disease. "You didn't live it, you couldn't understand" is obviously true when working with patients of rare diseases, but it doesn't stop people from pursuing those research areas, and it doesn't make the families any less appreciative when they see the fruits of your labor. You do the work, you're the subject expert.

    With the added context of the genesis of the exhibit, her superiors at the museum (and final gatekeepers of content) being educated black men and women, her support from inside the industry from notable contributors, and her history of well-regarded work on various aspects of African American history, I'm inclined to say that her work is probably more important than the optics of her whiteness being attached to it. If there was a danger of her diluting the experience due to her lack of perspective, I'd like to think that someone would've brought it to the museum's attention in the past decade.

    Remember, she wasn't hired for this exhibit. She was hired 15 years ago because she's apparently a hell of a researcher. Asking the Smithsonian to hire more blacks is certainly fair; saying that the white employees in the building can't be customer facing is not. If she wasn't headlining this, it would be something else directly speaking to the black experience in America today.

    When this exhibit runs its course she'll move on to the next subject, whatever that may be, and I should hope that she's not put off from chronicling and collecting the AA experience after this backlash. Because I think we can all agree, that this shit is fucking important.
     
  11. Dragnipur

    Dragnipur
    Member

    What is the resolution that y'all want from this?
     
  12. Less anti-white racism so whites can finally achieve positions of authority in this country
     
  13. Neece

    Neece
    Member

    Good post.
     
  14. Dragnipur

    Dragnipur
    Member

    Very constructive, thanks for the insight
     
  15. Benita

    Benita
    Member

    Hey I think that would have been awesome if it worked out that way.

    I just don't think that should be the expectation.
     
  16. nel e nel

    nel e nel
    Member

    Technically, hip hop’s roots are in the Jamaican sound systems and toasting from the late 60s. It’s been a soundboard for racial oppression just by the fact that it’s a black art form.
     
  17. As if you’re interested in what anyone has to say
     
  18. Rumblebones

    Rumblebones
    Member

    I don't know how much more clearer I can make it that this issue goes beyond this individual.

    I have not suggest she stole anything. As far as I know she is qualified for the job.

    I'm trying to speak to the broader situation. Do we know no one else applied for the job, if so, why, and if others did, then what are the odds a white woman is more qualified to curate black art than a black person? History would suggest white privilege has a lot do with it.
     
  19. Benita

    Benita
    Member

    Whether you buy it or not is irrelevant. This woman is clearly passionate about the subject and she's the one who made it happen. Neither you nor I have a clue what it takes to curate an exhibit of this magnitude.

    Until someone actually steps up and says "I'm a black person and I'm qualified for that job", you're holding the museum to some impossible, unknowable standard.
     
  20. Urban Scholar

    Urban Scholar
    Member

    I get this forum doesn't have a lot of black folks. So a lot of you probably can't process get why this is a problem. But I'll try to explain it. - Visibility

    Imagine being black. Hip hop is the culture, an art that you know is great but as you grew up you see it's lowkey not respected. Despite the depth of its artistry.

    The world tells you they love it or hate everyday. But whatever black folks made that. We made our culture what it is.

    For those of you not Black. Do you know what a lot (not all) Black folks take to heart? Visibility. We want to acknowledge our history and be acknowledged for its greatness.

    We need to see everything for the culture out there. Hip hop like everything else black is an experience to hear and see thrive for black folks.

    Speaking of visibility that's one of the primary reasons the museum was made. We needed to have our history recognized.

    In this particular case it's a message being sent:

    Her hiring feels like even hip hop curation for National Museum of African American History and Culture needs a non Black validation.

    Or another view is that what is clearly a part of our culture doesn't need a black person.

    That in itself is where the problem lies and what's being voiced. What is a reflection of our culture can't be run by us? In a museum for us? The visibility is bad.

    Personally speaking, it's insensitive to what the museum is and the purpose at hand.
     
  21. Dragnipur

    Dragnipur
    Member

    Well, now I can confidently say that I don't care what you have to say :)
     
  22. Coyote Starrk

    Coyote Starrk
    Member

    This was my first thought as well.
     
  23. Royalan

    Royalan
    Buy Bionic. Please. Moderator

    She's not the one who made it happen.
     
  24. Benita

    Benita
    Member

    I'd suggest that thanks to this woman, the culture now has significantly more "visibility" than it did without her.
     
  25. Wamb0wneD

    Wamb0wneD
    Member

    Very good post, thank you.
     
  26. SlothmanAllen

    SlothmanAllen
    Member

    People have expertise in all areas unrelated to their cultural background. Do all archeologists have to be from the geographical area they are interested in?
     
  27. TheGhost

    TheGhost
    Member

    Who are they? Because I would love to read on what they think, say, opinions on what I consider the golden years of hip hop. Because I love the 70's, 80's, 90's hip hop that much.

    Do the MC's have a problem with it, if they don't then I don't see the issue beyond.
     
  28. antonz

    antonz
    Member

    Not sure where people get the idea that there is some massive backlog of people just waiting to be a museum Curator. Even more so at a National Museum. The Education requirements alone are massive then there is the other dozen or so requirements that you need to meet before you can even put your foot in the door for consideration. A Smithsonian Curator makes between 60k to 100k a year depending on experience etc. Its not a high paying job for the amount of work/education you have to achieve to even qualify for the job.
     
  29. mordecaii83

    mordecaii83
    Member

    She is one of the people working on this project from the beginning. From the info quoted earlier that hasn't been added to the OP:

     
  30. Loudninja

    Loudninja
    Member

    Oh my god.
     
  31. Royalan

    Royalan
    Buy Bionic. Please. Moderator

    This is a different statement from mine. She's not the one who made it happen.
     
  32. Biestmann

    Biestmann
    Member

    Royalan I've laid out to you why I think the post is worthy of being added to the OP. If you still disagree, I would at least like to know why.
     
  33. ginger ninja

    ginger ninja
    Member

    Outrage over this is such a bad look smh. Imagine the reaction if the same headline was printed for a minority doing some white people thing(idk, curating cheese or something ? What are some white people things era ?)
     
  34. You never did. I certainly don’t give a fuck about your perspective
     
  35. Servbot24

    Servbot24
    Member

    I get what people are saying about she should have turned down the job. But at the same time you're asking someone to turn down a job. That's too much. She has a right to pursuing her career.
     
  36. Benita

    Benita
    Member

    We'll agree to disagree on that one. The point still stands that speculation on who else may or may not be qualified for the role is misguided.
     
  37. mordecaii83

    mordecaii83
    Member

    Oh absolutely, no one person made it happen. It takes a lot of people coming together to start a big project like this. I do think it's important to note that she was there from day one on the project though.

    Edit: I agree the optics on this aren't the best, and I can't argue with anyone who would have preferred an African American in the role.
     
  38. vodalus

    vodalus
    Member

    If you honestly have no problem with this, and think this is a positive way to convey African-American culture, that's fine. There is room to disagree here.

    But you should not be in the least surprised that someone would find this objectionable. The story of African-American culture is that it has been appropriated by whites again, and again, and again. Are you really that shocked if this looks to all observers like a continuation of this disturbing, destroying trend?
     
  39. Royalan

    Royalan
    Buy Bionic. Please. Moderator

    Two reasons:

    1) This isn't an argument about Burnside's academic qualifications. So the post doesn't clarify so much as provide an unintended straw man.

    2) The OP wants to keep the post as-is. And, provided the post isn't inflammatory or blatantly deceptive, mods tend to not make a habit of editing OPs.
     
  40. F2BBm3ga

    F2BBm3ga
    Member

    [​IMG]
     
  41. Lothars

    Lothars
    Member

    we don't know any of that which is more the issue than anything else because it's all speculation than anything. What are the odds nobody else wanted the job or applied for it?
     
  42. Not to discount her experience or anything, but looking at her site she has a BA and an MA. That doesn't seem like some crazy academic requirements, especially today. I have an MA and if those salaries are correct she'd be making more than me....
     
  43. mordecaii83

    mordecaii83
    Member

    • User Warned: Inflammatory generalization.
    Can't really think of anything, isn't that part of the problem with white people? No real culture? At least not one that anyone should be proud of.

    Edit: LMAO what a bullshit warning, but whatever I'll own that. I guess saying I can't come up with anything that stands out as something I'd call "my people's culture" is worthy of a warning.
     
  44. Dragnipur

    Dragnipur
    Member

    • User Warned: Inflammatory generalization.
    Only thing I can think of from an American standpoint is most rural (Redneck) culture, but that isn't really something to be proud of. European culture is a different story thoufh
     
  45. aliengmr

    aliengmr
    Member

    I wonder how much extra attention this exhibit got simply due to the controversy. I mean, if it's all about optics, her skin color might end up having a positive effect on the museum itself.
     
  46. signal

    signal
    Member

    Thread just took a turn towards corn city.
     
  47. Biestmann

    Biestmann
    Member

    The OP fails to teach us anything about Burnside, the woman now curator of the Hip Hop section of the museum. As it turns out, she has a long history in the project and helped realize it. Those are important facts that go beyond her race, and has had black users like BossAttack concede that, ultimately, her hiring is not an issue in this particular case. It brings some color to a case that is otherwise pretty cut and dried, and deserves to be featured in the OP. It is regretful that you do not see this, and are the one that gets to dismiss the request, despite multiple users asking for the addition to the OP.
     
  48. Westbahnhof

    Westbahnhof
    Member

    Come on now, this is just unnecessarily insulting. I hope you don't mean it.
     
  49. Royalan

    Royalan
    Buy Bionic. Please. Moderator

    I didn't dismiss the request.
     
  50. Dyle

    Dyle
    Member

    I understand those disappointed by such a hiring choice, but a quick look at her history with the NMAH shows that she clearly has a lot of experience and expertise on the subject, even without knowing the specifcs of her resume, interview, and work history. There are too many factors involved in one position to draw too many conclusions. The Smithsonian's staff is, in my anecdotal experience, I can't look up hard numbers right now, more diverse than the industry at large. That being said there is still tons of room for improvement and I hope that situations like this don't lead people to dox and hate on people just trying to make a living and do their best to teach others. The mission of recording and showing our history is too important to be sidetracked by petty, self-destructive arguments