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A strong dam may hold back an immense quantity of water, but once it breaks the resulting flood may sweep aside everything in its path. I had spent nearly my entire life never doubting that a lone gunman named Lee Harvey Oswald killed President John F. Kennedy nor that a different lone gunman took the life of his younger brother Robert a few years later. Once I came to accept that these were merely fairy tales widely disbelieved by many of the same political elites who publicly maintained them, I began considering other aspects of this important history, the most obvious being who was behind the conspiracy and what were their motives.
On these questions, the passage of a half-century and the deaths, natural or otherwise, of nearly all the contemporary witnesses drastically reduces any hope of coming to a firm conclusion. At best, we can evaluate possibilities and plausibilities rather than high likelihoods let alone near certainties. And given the total absence of any hard evidence, our exploration of the origins of the assassination must necessarily rely upon cautious speculation.
From such a considerable distance in time, a bird’s-eye view may be a reasonable starting point, allowing us to focus on the few elements of the apparent conspiracy that seem reasonably well established. The most basic of these is the background of the individuals who appear to have been associated with the assassination, and the recent books by David Talbot and James W. Douglass effectively summarize much of the evidence accumulated over the decades by an army of diligent assassination researchers. Most of the apparent conspirators seem to have had strong ties to organized crime, the CIA, or various anti-Castro activist groups, with considerable overlap across these categories. Oswald himself certainly fit this same profile although he was very likely the mere “patsy” that he claimed to be, as did Jack Ruby, the man who quickly silenced him and whose ties to the criminal underworld were long and extensive.
An unusual chain of events provided some of the strongest evidence of CIA involvement. Victor Marchetti, a career CIA officer, had risen to become Special Assistant to the Deputy Director, a position of some importance, before resigning in 1969 over policy differences. Although he fought a long battle with government censors over his book, The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence, he retained close ties with many former agency colleagues.
During the 1970s, the revelations of the Senate Church Committee and the House Select Committee on Assassinations had subjected the CIA to a great deal of negative public scrutiny, and there were growing suspicions of possible CIA links to JFK’s assassination. In 1978 longtime CIA Counter-intelligence chief James Angleton and a colleague provided Marchetti with an explosive leak, stating that the agency might be planning to admit a connection to the assassination, which had involved three shooters, but place the blame upon E. Howard Hunt, a former CIA officer who had become notorious during Watergate, and scapegoat him as a rogue agent, along with a few other equally tarnished colleagues. Marchetti published the resulting story in The Spotlight, a weekly national tabloid newspaper operated by Liberty Lobby, a rightwing populist organization based in DC. Although almost totally shunned by the mainstream media, The Spotlight was then at the peak of its influence, having almost 400,000 subscribers, as large a readership as the combined total of The New Republic, The Nation, and National Review.
Marchetti’s article suggested that Hunt had actually been in Dallas during the assassination, resulting in a libel lawsuit with potential damages large enough to bankrupt the publication. Longtime JFK assassination researcher Mark Lane became aware of the situation and volunteered his services to Liberty Lobby, hoping to use the legal proceedings, including the discovery process and subpoena power, as a means of securing additional evidence on the assassination, and after various court rulings and appeals, the case finally came to trial in 1985.
As Lane recounted in his 1991 bestseller, Plausible Denial, his strategy generally proved quite successful, not only allowing him to win the jury verdict against Hunt, but also eliciting sworn testimony from a former CIA operative of her personal involvement in the conspiracy along with the names of several other participants, though she claimed that her role had been strictly peripheral. And although Hunt continued for decades to totally deny any connection with the assassination, near the end of his life he made a series of video-taped interviews in which he admitted that he had indeed been involved in the JFK assassination and named several of the other conspirators, while also maintaining that his own role had been merely peripheral. Hunt’s explosive death-bed confession was recounted in a major 2007 Rolling Stone article and also heavily analyzed in Talbot’s books, especially his second one, but otherwise largely ignored by the media.
Many of these same apparent conspirators, drawn from the same loose alliance of groups, had previously been involved in the various U.S. government-backed attempts to assassinate Castro or overthrow his Communist government, and they had developed a bitter hostility towards President Kennedy for what they considered his betrayal during the Bay of Pigs fiasco and afterward. Therefore, there is a natural tendency to regard such animosity as the central factor behind the assassination, a perspective generally followed by Talbot, Douglass, and numerous other writers. They conclude that Kennedy died at the hands of harder-line anti-Communists, outraged over his perceived weakness regarding Cuba, Russia, and Vietnam, sentiments that were certainly widespread within right-wing political circles at the height of the Cold War.
While this framework for the assassination is certainly possible, it is far from certain. One may easily imagine that most of the lower-level participants in the Dallas events were driven by such considerations but that the central figures who organized the plot and set matters into motion had different motives. So long as all the conspirators were agreed on Kennedy’s elimination, there was no need for an absolute uniformity of motive. Indeed, men who had long been involved in organized crime or clandestine intelligence operations were surely experienced in operational secrecy, and many of them may not have expected to know the identities, let alone the precise motives, of the men at the very top of the remarkable operation they were undertaking.
We must also sharply distinguish between the involvement of particular individuals and the involvement of an organization as an organization. For example, CIA Director John McCone was a Kennedy loyalist who had been appointed to clean house a couple of years before the assassination, and he surely was innocent of his patron’s death. On the other hand, the very considerable evidence that numerous individual CIA intelligence officers and operatives participated in the action has naturally raised suspicions that some among their highest-ranking superiors were involved as well, perhaps even as the principal organizers of the conspiracy.
These reasonable speculations may have been magnified by elements of personal bias. Many of the prominent authors who have investigated the JFK assassination in recent years have been staunch liberals, and may have allowed their ideology to cloud their judgment. They often seek to locate the organizers of Kennedy’s elimination among those rightwing figures whom they most dislike, even when the case is far from entirely plausible.
But consider the supposed motives of hard-line anti-Communists near the top of the national security hierarchy who supposedly may have organized Kennedy’s elimination because he backed away from a full military solution in the Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missile Crisis incidents. Were they really so absolutely sure that a President Johnson would be such an enormous improvement as to risk their lives and public standing to organize a full conspiracy to assassinate an American president?
A new presidential election was less than a year away, and Kennedy’s shifting stance on Civil Rights seemed likely to cost him nearly all the Southern states that had provided his margin of electoral victory in 1960. A series of public declarations or embarrassing leaks might have helped remove him from office by traditional political means, possibly replacing him with a Cold War hard-liner such as Barry Goldwater or some other Republican. Would the militarists or business tycoons often implicated by liberal JFK researchers have really been so desperate as to not wait those extra few months and see what happened?
Based on extremely circumstantial evidence, Talbot’s 2015 book The Devil’s Chessboard, something of a sequel to Brothers, suggests that former longtime CIA Director Allan Dulles may have been the likely mastermind, with his motive being a mixture of his extreme Cold Warrior views and his personal anger at his 1961 dismissal from his position.
While his involvement is certainly possible, obvious questions arise. Dulles was a seventy-year-old retiree, with a very long and distinguished career of public service and a brother who had served as Eisenhower’s secretary of state. He had just published The Craft of Intelligence, which was receiving very favorable treatment in the establishment media, and he was embarked on a major book tour. Would he really have risked everything—including his family’s reputation in the history books—to organize the murder of America’s duly-elected president, an unprecedented act utterly different in nature than trying to unseat a Guatemalan leader on behalf of supposed American national interests? Surely, using his extensive media and intelligence contacts to leak embarrassing disclosures about JFK’s notorious sexual escapades during the forthcoming presidential campaign would have been be a much safer means of attempting to achieve an equivalent result. And the same is true for J. Edgar Hoover and many of the other powerful Washington figures who hated Kennedy for similar reasons.
On the other hand, it is very easy to imagine that such individuals had some awareness of the emerging plot or may even have facilitated it or participated to a limited extent. And once it succeeded, and their personal enemy had been replaced, they surely would have been extremely willing to assist in the cover-up and protect the reputation of the new regime, a role that Dulles may have played as the most influential member of the Warren Commission. But such activities are different than acting as the central organizer of a presidential assassination.
Just as with the hard-line national security establishment, many organized crime leaders had grown outraged over the actions of the Kennedy Administration. During the late 1950s, Robert Kennedy had intensely targeted the mob for prosecution as chief counsel to the Senate Labor Rackets Committee. But during the 1960 election, family patriarch Joseph Kennedy used his own longstanding mafia connections to enlist their support for his older son’s presidential campaign, and by all accounts the votes stolen by the corrupt mob-dominated political machines in Chicago and elsewhere helped put JFK in the White House, along with Robert Kennedy as his Attorney General. Frank Sinatra, an enthusiastic Kennedy supporter, had also helped facilitate this arrangement by using his influence with skeptical mob leaders.
However, instead of repaying such crucial election support with political favors, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, perhaps ignorant of any bargain, soon unleashed an all-out war against organized crime, far more serious than anything previously mounted at the federal level, and the crime bosses regarded this as a back-stabbing betrayal by the new administration. Once Joseph Kennedy was felled by an incapacitating stroke in late 1961, they also lost any hope that he would use his influence to enforce the deals he had struck the previous year. FBI wiretaps reveal that mafia leader Sam Giancana decided to have Sinatra killed for his role in this failed bargain, only sparing the singer’s life when he considered how much he personally loved the voice of one of the most famous Italian-Americans of the 20th century.
These organized crime leaders and some of their close associates such as Teamster boss Jimmy Hoffa certainly developed a bitter hatred toward the Kennedys, and this has naturally led some authors to point to the mafia as the likely organizers of the assassination, but I find this quite unlikely. For many decades, American crime bosses had had a complex and varied relationship with political figures, who might sometimes be their allies and at other times their persecutors, and surely there must have been many betrayals over the years. However, I am not aware of a single case in which any even moderately prominent political figure on the national stage was ever targeted for assassination, and it seems quite unlikely that the sole exception would be a popular president, whom they would have likely regarded as being completely out of their league. On the other hand, if individuals who ranked high in Kennedy’s own DC political sphere set in motion a plot to eliminate him, they might have found it easy to enlist the enthusiastic cooperation of various mafia leaders.
Furthermore, the strong evidence that many CIA operatives were involved in the conspiracy very much suggests that they were recruited and organized by some figure high in their own hierarchy of the intelligence or political worlds rather than the less likely possibility that they were brought in solely by leaders of the parallel domain of organized crime. And while crime bosses might possibly have organized the assassination itself, they surely had no means of orchestrating the subsequent cover-up by the Warren Commission, nor would there have been any willingness by America’s political leadership to protect mafia leaders from investigation and proper punishment for such a heinous act.
If a husband or wife is found murdered, with no obvious suspect or motive at hand, the normal response of the police is to carefully investigate the surviving spouse, and quite often this suspicion proves correct. Similarly, if you read in your newspapers that in some obscure Third World country two bitterly hostile leaders, both having unpronounceable names, had been sharing supreme political power until one was suddenly struck down in a mysterious assassination by unknown conspirators, your thoughts would certainly move in an obvious direction. Most Americans in the early 1960s did not perceive their own country’s politics in such a light, but perhaps they were mistaken. As a total newcomer to the enormous, hidden world of JFK conspiracy analysis, I was immediately surprised by the mere sliver of suspicion directed towards Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson, the slain leader’s immediate successor and the most obvious beneficiary.
The two Talbot books and the one by Douglass, totaling some 1500 pages, devote merely a few paragraphs to any suspicions of Johnson’s involvement. Talbot’s first book reports that immediately after the assassination, the vice president had expressed a frantic concern to his personal aides that a military coup might be in progress or a world war breaking out, and suggests that these few casual words demonstrate his obvious innocence, although a more cynical observer might wonder if those remarks had been uttered for exactly that reason. Talbot’s second book actually quotes an apparent low-level conspirator as claiming that Johnson had personally signed off on the plot and admits that Hunt believed the same thing, but treats such unsubstantiated accusations with considerable skepticism, before adding a single sentence acknowledging that Johnson may indeed have been a passive supporter or even an accomplice. Douglass and Peter Dale Scott, author of the influential 1993 book Deep Politics and the Death of JFK, apparently seem never to have even entertained the possibility.
Ideological considerations are probably an important reason for such remarkable reticence. Although liberals had grown to revile LBJ by the late 1960s for his escalation of the unpopular Vietnam War, over the decades those sentiments have faded, while warm memories of his passage of the landmark Civil Rights legislation and his creation of the Great Society programs have elevated his stature in that ideological camp. Furthermore, such legislation had long been blockaded in Congress and only became law because of the 1964 Democratic Congressional landslide following JFK’s martyrdom, and it might be difficult for liberals to admit that their fondest dreams were only realized by an act of political parricide.
Kennedy and Johnson may have been intensively hostile personal rivals, but there seem to have been few deep ideological differences between the two men, and most of the leading figures in JFK’s government continued to serve under his successor, surely another source of enormous embarrassment to any ardent liberals who came to suspect that the former had been murdered by a conspiracy involving the latter. Talbot, Douglass, and many other left-leaning advocates for an assassination conspiracy prefer to point the finger of blame towards far more congenial villains such as hard-line, anti-Communist Cold Warriors and right-wing elements, notably including top CIA officials, such as former director Allan Dulles.
An additional factor helping to explain the extreme unwillingness of Talbot, Douglass, and others to consider Johnson as an obvious suspect may be the realities of the book publishing industry. By the 2000s, JFK assassination conspiracies had long become passé and were treated with disdain in mainstream circles. Talbot’s strong reputation, his 150 original interviews, and the quality of his manuscript broke that barrier, and attracted The Free Press as his very respectable publisher, while later drawing a strongly positive review by a leading academic scholar in the New York Times Sunday Book Review and an hour long television segment broadcast on C-Span Booknotes. But if he had devoted any space to voicing suspicions that our 35th president had been murdered by our 36th, surely the weight of that extra element of “outrageous conspiracy theory” would have ensured that his book sank without a trace.
However, if we cast off these distorting ideological blinders and the practical considerations of American publishing, the prima facie case for Johnson’s involvement seems quite compelling.
Consider a very simple point. If a president is struck down by an unknown group of conspirators, his successor would normally have had the strongest possible incentive to track them down lest he might become their next victim. Yet Johnson did nothing, appointing the Warren Commission that covered up the entire matter, laying the blame upon an erratic “lone gunman” conveniently dead. This would seem remarkably odd behavior for an innocent LBJ. This conclusion does not demand that Johnson was the mastermind, nor even an active participant, but it raises a very strong suspicion that he at least had had some awareness of the plot, and enjoyed a good personal relationship with some of the principals.
A similar conclusion is supported by a converse analysis. If the plot succeeded and Johnson became president, the conspirators must surely have felt reasonably confident that they would be protected rather than tracked down and punished as traitors by the new president. Even a fully successful assassination would entail enormous risks unless the organizers believed that Johnson would do exactly what he did, and the only means of ensuring this would be to sound him out about the plan, at least in some vague manner, and obtain his passive acquiesce.
Based on these considerations, it seems extremely difficult to believe that any JFK assassination conspiracy took place entirely without Johnson’s foreknowledge, or that he was not a central figure in the subsequent cover-up.
But the specific details of Johnson’s career and his political situation in late 1963 greatly strengthen these entirely generic arguments. A very useful corrective to the “See No Evil” approach to Johnson from liberal JFK writers is Roger Stone’s The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ, published in 2013. Stone, a longtime Republican political operative who got his start under Richard Nixon, presents a powerful case that Johnson was the sort of individual who might easily have lent his hand to political murder, and also that he had strong reasons to do so.
Among other things, Stone gathers together an enormous wealth of persuasive information regarding Johnson’s decades of extremely corrupt and criminal practices in Texas, including fairly plausible claims that these may have included several murders. In one bizarre 1961 incident that strangely foreshadows the Warren Commission’s “lone gunman” finding, a federal government inspector investigating a major Texas corruption scheme involving a close LBJ ally was found dead, shot five times in the chest and abdomen by a rifle, but the death was officially ruled a “suicide” by the local authorities, and that conclusion was reported with a straight face in the pages of the Washington Post.
Certainly one remarkable aspect of Johnson’s career is that he was born dirt-poor, held low-paying government jobs throughout his entire life, yet took the oath of office as the wealthiest president in modern American history, having accumulated a personal fortune of over $100 million in present-day dollars, with the financial payoffs from his corporate benefactors having been laundered through his wife’s business. This odd anomaly is so little remembered these days that a prominent political journalist expressed total disbelief when I mentioned it to him a decade ago.
Stone also effectively sketches out the very difficult political situation Johnson faced in late 1963. He had originally entered the 1960 presidential race as one of the most powerful Democrats in the country and the obvious front-runner for his party’s nomination, certainly compared to the much younger Kennedy, whom he greatly outranked in political stature and also somewhat despised. His defeat, involving a great deal of underhanded dealings on both sides, came as a huge personal blow. The means by which he somehow managed to get himself placed on the ticket are not entirely clear, but both Stone and Seymour Hersh in The Dark Side of Camelot strongly suggest that personal blackmail was a greater factor than geographical ticket-balancing. In any event, Kennedy’s paper-thin 1960 victory would have been far more difficult without Texas narrowly falling into the Democratic column, and election fraud there by Johnson’s powerful political machine seems almost certainly to have been an important factor.
Under such circumstances, Johnson naturally expected to play a major role in the new administration, and he even issued grandiose demands for a huge political portfolio, but instead he found himself immediately sidelined and treated with complete disdain, soon becoming a forlorn figure with no authority or influence. As time went by, the Kennedys made plans to get rid of him, and just a few days before the assassination, they were already discussing whom to place on the reelection ticket in his stead. Much of Johnson’s long record of extreme corruption both in Texas and in DC was coming to light following the fall of Bobby Baker, his key political henchman, and with strong Kennedy encouragement, Life Magazine was preparing a huge expose of his sordid and often criminal history, laying the basis for his prosecution and perhaps a lengthy prison sentence. By mid-November 1963, Johnson seemed a desperate political figure at the absolute end of his rope, but a week later he was the president of the United States, and all those swirling scandals were suddenly forgotten. Stone even claims that the huge block of magazine space reserved for the Johnson expose was instead filled by the JFK assassination story.
Aside from effectively documenting Johnson’s sordid personal history and the looming destruction he faced at the hands of the Kennedys in late 1963, Stone also adds numerous fascinating pieces of personal testimony, which may or may not be reliable. According to him, as his mentor Nixon was watching the scene at the Dallas police station where Jack Ruby shot Oswald, Nixon immediately turned as white as a ghost, explaining that he had personally known the gunman under his birth-name of Rubenstein. While working on a House Committee in 1947, Nixon had been advised by a close ally and prominent mob-lawyer to hire Ruby as an investigator, being told that “he was one of Lyndon Johnson’s boys.” Stone also claims that Nixon once emphasized that although he had long sought the presidency, unlike Johnson “I wasn’t willing to kill for it.” He further reports that Vietnam Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge and numerous other prominent political figures in DC were absolutely convinced of Johnson’s direct involvement in the assassination.
Stone has spent more than a half-century as a ruthless political operative, a position that provided him with unique personal access to individuals who participated in the great events of the past, but one that also carries the less than totally candid reputation of that profession, and individuals must carefully weigh these conflicting factors against each other. Personally, I tend to credit most of the eyewitness stories he provides. But even readers who remain entirely skeptical should find useful the large collection of secondary source references to the sordid details of LBJ’s history that the book provides.
Finally, a seemingly unrelated historical incident had originally raised my own suspicions of Johnson’s involvement.
Just prior to the outbreak of the Six Day War in 1967, Johnson had dispatched the U.S.S. Liberty, our most advanced intelligence-gathering ship, to remain offshore in international waters and closely monitor the military situation. There have been published claims that he had granted Israel a green-light for its preemptive attack, but fearful of risking a nuclear confrontation with the Soviet patrons of Syria and Egypt, had strictly circumscribed the limits of the military operation, sending the Liberty to keep an eye on developments and perhaps also to “show Israel who was boss.”
Whether or not this reconstruction is correct, the Israelis soon launched an all-out attack on the nearly defenseless ship despite the large American flag it was flying, deploying attack jets and torpedo boats to sink the vessel during an assault that lasted several hours, while machine-gunning the lifeboats to ensure that there would be no survivors. The first stage of the attack had targeted the main communications antenna, and its destruction together with heavy Israeli jamming prevented any communications with other U.S. naval forces in the region.
Despite these very difficult conditions, a member of the crew heroically managed to jerry-rig a replacement antenna during the attack, and by trying numerous different frequencies was able to evade the jamming and contact the U.S. Sixth Fleet, informing them of the desperate situation. Yet although carrier jets were twice dispatched to rescue the Liberty and drive off the attackers, each time they were recalled, apparently upon direct orders from the highest authorities of the U.S. government. Once the Israelis learned that word of the situation had reached other U.S. forces, they soon discontinued their attack, and the heavily-damaged Liberty eventually limped into port, with over 200 dead and wounded sailors and NSA signal operators, representing the greatest loss of American servicemen in any naval incident since World War II.
Although numerous medals were issued to the survivors, word of the incident was totally suppressed by a complete blanket of secrecy, and in an unprecedented step, even a Congressional Medal of Honor was awarded only in a private ceremony. The survivors were also harshly threatened with immediate court martial if they discussed what had transpired with the press or anyone else. Despite the overwhelming evidence that the attack had been intentional, a naval court of inquiry presided over by Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., father of the current senator, whitewashed the incident as a tragic accident, and a complete media blackout suppressed the facts. The true story only began to come out years later, when James M. Ennes, Jr., a Liberty survivor, risked severe legal consequences and published Assault on the Liberty in 1979 .
As it happened, NSA intercepts of Israeli communications between the attacking jets and Tel Aviv, translated from the Hebrew, fully confirmed that the attack had been entirely deliberate, and since many of the dead and wounded were NSA employees, the suppression of these facts greatly rankled their colleagues. My old friend Bill Odom, the three-star general who ran the NSA for Ronald Reagan, later shrewdly circumvented the restrictions of his political masters by making those incriminating intercepts part of the standard curriculum of the Sigint training program required for all intelligence officers.
In 2007 an unusual set of circumstances finally broke the thirty year blackout in the mainstream media. Real estate investor Sam Zell, a Jewish billionaire extremely devoted to Israel, had orchestrated a leveraged-buyout of the Tribune Company, parent of the Los Angeles Times and the Chicago Tribune, investing merely a sliver of his own money, with the bulk of the financing coming from the pension funds of the company he was acquiring. Widely heralded as “the grave dancer” for his shrewd financial investments, Zell publicly boasted that the deal gave him nearly all of the upside potential of the company, while he bore relatively little of the risk. Such an approach proved wise since the complex deal quickly collapsed into bankruptcy, and although Zell emerged almost unscathed, the editors and journalists lost decades of their accumulated pension dollars, while massive layoffs soon devastated the newsrooms of what had been two of the country’s largest and most prestigious newspapers. Perhaps coincidentally, just as this business turmoil hit in late 2007, the Tribune ran a massive 5,500 word story on the Liberty attack, representing the first and only time such a comprehensive account of the true facts has ever appeared in the mainstream media.
By all accounts, Johnson was an individual of towering personal ego, and when I read the article, I was struck by the extent of his astonishing subservience to the Jewish state. The influence of campaign donations and favorable media coverage seemed completely insufficient to explain his reaction to an incident that had cost the lives of so many American servicemen. I began to wonder if Israel might have played an extraordinarily powerful political trump-card, thereby showing LBJ “who was really boss,” and once I discovered the reality of the JFK assassination conspiracy a year or two later, I suspected I knew what that trump-card might have been. Over the years, I had become quite friendly with the late Alexander Cockburn, and the next time we had lunch I outlined my ideas. Although he had always casually dismissed JFK conspiracy theories as total nonsense, he found my hypothesis quite intriguing.
Regardless of such speculation, the strange circumstances of the Liberty incident certainly demonstrated the exceptionally close relationship between President Johnson and the government of Israel, as well as the willingness of the mainstream media to spend decades hiding events of the most remarkable nature if they might tread on particular toes.
These important considerations should be kept in mind as we begin exploring the most explosive yet under-reported theory of the JFK assassination. Almost twenty-five years ago the late Michael Collins Piper published Final Judgment presenting a very large body of circumstantial evidence that Israel and its Mossad secret intelligence service, together with their American collaborators, probably played a central role in the conspiracy.
For decades following the 1963 assassination, virtually no suspicions had ever been directed towards Israel, and as a consequence none of the hundreds or thousands of assassination conspiracy books that appeared during the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s had hinted at any role for the Mossad, though nearly every other possible culprit, ranging from the Vatican to the Illuminati, came under scrutiny. Kennedy had received over 80% of the Jewish vote in his 1960 election, American Jews featured very prominently in his White House, and he was greatly lionized by Jewish media figures, celebrities, and intellectuals ranging from New York City to Hollywood to the Ivy League. Moreover, individuals with a Jewish background such as Mark Lane and Edward Epstein had been among the leading early proponents of an assassination conspiracy, with their controversial theories championed by influential Jewish cultural celebrities such as Mort Sahl and Norman Mailer. Given that the Kennedy Administration was widely perceived as pro-Israel, there seemed no possible motive for any Mossad involvement, and bizarre, totally unsubstantiated accusations of such a monumental nature directed against the Jewish state were hardly likely to gain much traction in an overwhelmingly pro-Israel publishing industry.
However, in the early 1990s highly-regarded journalists and researchers began exposing the circumstances surrounding the development of Israel’s nuclear weapons arsenal. Seymour Hersh’s 1991 book The Samson Option: Israel’s Nuclear Arsenal and American Foreign Policy described the extreme efforts of the Kennedy Administration to force Israel to allow international inspections of its allegedly non-military nuclear reactor at Dimona, and thereby prevent its use in producing nuclear weapons. Dangerous Liaisons: The Inside Story of the U.S.-Israeli Covert Relationship by Andrew and Leslie Cockburn appeared in the same year, and covered similar ground.
Although entirely hidden from public awareness at the time, the early 1960s political conflict between the American and Israeli governments over nuclear weapons development had represented a top foreign policy priority of the Kennedy Administration, which had made nuclear non-proliferation one of its central international initiatives. It is notable that John McCone, Kennedy’s choice as CIA Director, had previously served on the Atomic Energy Commission under Eisenhower, being the individual who leaked the fact that Israel was building a nuclear reactor to produce plutonium.
The pressure and financial aid threats secretly applied to Israel by the Kennedy Administration eventually became so severe that they led to the resignation of Israel’s founding Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion in June 1963. But all these efforts were almost entirely halted or reversed once Kennedy was replaced by Johnson in November of that same year. Piper notes that Stephen Green’s 1984 book Taking Sides: America’s Secret Relations With a Militant Israel had previously documented that U.S. Middle East Policy completely reversed itself following Kennedy’s assassination, but this important finding had attracted little attention at the time.
Skeptics of a plausible institutional basis for a JFK assassination conspiracy have often noted the extreme continuity in both foreign and domestic policies between the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations, arguing that this casts severe doubt on any such possible motive. Although this analysis seems largely correct, America’s behavior towards Israel and its nuclear weapons program stands as a very notable exception to this pattern.
An additional major area of concern for Israeli officials may have involved the efforts of the Kennedy Administration to sharply restrict the activities of pro-Israel political lobbies. During his 1960 presidential campaign, Kennedy had met in New York City with a group of wealthy Israel advocates, led by financier Abraham Feinberg, and they had offered enormous financial support in exchange for a controlling influence in Middle Eastern policy. Kennedy managed to fob them off with vague assurances, but he considered the incident so troubling that the next morning he sought out journalist Charles Bartlett, one of his closest friends, and expressed his outrage that American foreign policy might fall under the control of partisans of a foreign power, promising that if he became president, he would rectify that situation. And indeed, once he had installed his brother Robert as Attorney General, the latter initiated a major legal effort to force pro-Israel groups to register themselves as foreign agents, which would have drastically reduced their power and influence. But after JFK’s death, this project was quickly abandoned, and as part of the settlement, the leading pro-Israel lobby merely agreed to reconstitute itself as AIPAC.
Final Judgment went through a number of a reprintings following its original 1994 appearance, and by the sixth edition released in 2004, had grown to over 650 pages, including numerous long appendices and over 1100 footnotes, the overwhelming majority of these referencing fully mainstream sources. The body of the text was merely serviceable in organization and polish, reflecting the total boycott by all publishers, mainstream or alternative, but I found the contents themselves remarkable and generally quite compelling. Despite the most extreme blackout by all media outlets, the book sold more than 40,000 copies over the years, making it something of an underground bestseller, and surely bringing it to the attention of everyone in the JFK assassination research community, though apparently almost none of them were willing to mention its existence. I suspect these other writers realized that even any mere acknowledgement of the existence of the book, if only to ridicule or dismiss it, might prove fatal to their media and publishing career. Piper himself died in 2015, aged 54, suffering from the health problems and heavy-drinking often associated with grim poverty, and other journalists may have been reluctant to risk that same dismal fate.
As an example of this strange situation, the bibliography of Talbot’s 2005 book contains almost 140 entries, some rather obscure, but has no space for Final Judgment, nor does his very comprehensive index include any entry for “Jews” or “Israel.” Indeed, at one point he very delicately characterizes Sen. Robert Kennedy’s entirely Jewish senior staff by stating “There was not a Catholic among them.” His 2015 sequel is equally circumspect, and although the index does contain numerous entries pertaining to Jews, all these references are in regards to World War II and the Nazis, including his discussion of the alleged Nazi ties of Allen Dulles, his principal bête noire. Stone’s book, while fearlessly convicting President Lyndon Johnson of the JFK assassination, also strangely excludes “Jews” and “Israel” from the long index and Final Judgment from the bibliography, and Douglass’s book follows this same pattern.
Furthermore, the extreme concerns that the Piper Hypothesis seems to have provoked among JFK assassination researchers may explain a strange anomaly. Although Mark Lane was himself of Jewish origins and left-wing roots, after his victory for Liberty Lobby in the Hunt libel trial, he spent many years associated with that organization in a legal capacity, and apparently became quite friendly with Piper, one of its leading writers. According to Piper, Lane told him that Final Judgment made “a solid case” for a major Mossad role in the assassination, and he viewed the theory as fully complementary to his own focus on CIA involvement. I suspect that concerns about these associations may explain why Lane was almost completely airbrushed out of the Douglass and 2007 Talbot books, and discussed in the second Talbot book only when his work was absolutely essential to Talbot’s own analysis. By contrast, New York Times staff writers are hardly likely to be as versed in the lesser-known aspects of the JFK assassination research community, and being ignorant of this hidden controversy, they gave Lane the long and glowing obituary that his career fully warranted.
When weighing the possible suspects for a given crime, considering their past pattern of behavior is often a helpful approach. As discussed above, I can think of no historical example in which organized crime initiated a serious assassination attempt against any American political figure even moderately prominent on the national stage. And despite a few suspicions here and there, the same applies to the CIA.
By contrast, the Israeli Mossad and the Zionist groups that preceded the establishment of the Jewish state seem to have had a very long track record of assassinations, including those of high-ranking political figures who might normally be regarded as inviolate. Lord Moyne, the British Minister of State for the Middle East, was assassinated in 1944 and Count Folke Bernadotte, the UN Peace Negotiator sent to help resolve the first Arab-Israel war, suffered the same fate in September 1948. Not even an American president was entirely free of such risks, and Piper notes that the memoirs of Harry Truman’s daughter Margaret reveal that Zionist militants had tried to assassinate her father using a letter laced with toxic chemicals in 1947 when they believed he was dragging his heels in supporting Israel, although that failed attempt was never made public. The Zionist faction responsible for all of these incidents was led by Yitzhak Shamir, who later became a leader of Mossad and director of its assassination program during the 1960s, before eventually becoming Prime Minister of Israel in 1986.
If the claims in the 1990s tell-all bestsellers of Mossad defector Victor Ostrovsky can be credited, Israel even considered the assassination of President George H.W. Bush in 1992 for his threats to cut off financial aid to Israel during a conflict over West Bank settlement policies, and I have been informed that the Bush Administration took those reports seriously at the time. And although I have not yet read it, the recent, widely-praised book Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations by journalist Ronen Bergman suggests that no other country in the world may have so regularly employed assassination as a standard tool of state policy.
There are other notable elements that tend to support the Piper Hypothesis. Once we accept the existence of a JFK assassination conspiracy, the one individual who is virtually certain to have been a participant was Jack Ruby, and his organized crime ties were almost entirely to the huge but rarely-mentioned Jewish wing of that enterprise, presided over by Meyer Lansky, an extremely fervent supporter of Israel. Ruby himself had particularly strong connections with Lansky lieutenant Mickey Cohen, who dominated the Los Angeles underworld and had been personally involved in gun-running to Israel prior to the 1948 war. Indeed, according to Dallas rabbi Hillel Silverman, Ruby had privately explained his killing of Oswald by saying “I did it for the Jewish people.”
An intriguing aspect to Oliver Stone’s landmark JFK film should also be mentioned. Arnon Milchan, the wealthy Hollywood producer who backed the project, was not only an Israeli citizen, but had also reportedly played a central role in the enormous espionage project to divert American technology and materials to Israel’s nuclear weapons project, the exact undertaking that the Kennedy Administration had made such efforts to block. Milchan has even sometimes been described as “the Israeli James Bond.” And although the film ran a full three hours in length, JFK scrupulously avoided presenting any of the details that Piper later regarded as initial clues to an Israeli dimension, instead seeming to finger America’s fanatic home-grown anti-Communist movement and the Cold War leadership of the military-industrial complex as the guilty parties.
Summarizing over 300,000 words of Piper’s history and analysis in just a few paragraphs is obviously an impossible undertaking, but the above discussion provides a reasonable taste of the enormous mass of circumstantial evidence mustered in favor of the Piper Hypothesis.
In many respects, JFK Assassination Studies has become its own academic discipline, and my credentials are quite limited. I have read perhaps a dozen books in the subject, and have also tried to approach the issues with the clean slate and fresh eyes of an outsider, but any serious expert would surely have digested scores or even hundreds of the volumes in the field. While the overall analysis of Final Judgment struck me as quite persuasive, a good fraction of the names and references were unfamiliar, and I simply do not have the background to assess their credibility, nor whether the description of the material presented is accurate.
Under normal circumstances, I would turn to the reviews or critiques produced by other authors, and comparing them against Piper’s claims, then decide which argument seemed the stronger. But although Final Judgment was published a quarter-century ago, the near-absolute blanket of silence surrounding the Piper Hypothesis, especially from the more influential and credible researchers, renders this impossible.
However, Piper’s inability to secure any regular publisher and the widespread efforts to smother his theory out of existence, have had an ironic consequence. Since the book went out of print years ago, I had a relatively easy time securing the rights to include it in my collection of controversial HTML Books, and I have now done so, thereby allowing everyone on the Internet to conveniently read the entire text and decide for themselves, while easily checking the multitude of references or searching for particular words or phrases.
This edition actually incorporates several much shorter works, originally published separately. One of these, consisting of an extended Q&A, describes the genesis of the idea and answers numerous questions surrounding it, and for some readers might represent a better starting point.
There are also numerous extended Piper interviews or presentations easily available on YouTube, and when I watched two or three of them a couple of years ago, I thought he effectively summarized many of his main arguments, but I cannot remember which ones they were.
The Kennedy assassination surely ranks as one of the most dramatic and heavily reported events of the twentieth century, yet the overwhelming evidence that our president died at the hands of a conspiracy rather than an eccentric “lone gunman” was almost entirely suppressed by our mainstream media during the decades that followed, with endless ridicule and opprobrium heaped on many of the stubborn truth-tellers. Indeed, the very term “conspiracy theory” soon became a standard slur aimed against all those who sharply questioned establishmentarian narratives, and there is strong evidence that such pejorative use was deliberately promoted by government agencies concerned that so much of the American citizenry was growing skeptical of the implausible cover story presented by the Warren Commission. But despite all these efforts, the period may mark the inflection point at which public trust in our national media began its precipitous decline. Once an individual concludes that the media lied about something as monumental as the JFK assassination, he naturally begins to wonder what other lies may be out there.
Although I now consider the case for an assassination conspiracy overwhelming, I think that the passage of so many decades has removed any real hope of reaching a firm conclusion about the identities of the main organizers or their motives. Those who disagree with this negative assessment are free to continue sifting the enormous mountain of complex historical evidence and debating their conclusions with others having similar interests.
However, among the cast of major suspects, I think that the most likely participant by far was Lyndon Johnson, based on any reasonable assessment of means, motive, and opportunity, as well as the enormous role he obviously must have played in facilitating the subsequent Warren Commission cover-up. Yet although such an obvious suspect must surely have been immediately apparent to any observer, Johnson seems to have received only a rather thin slice of the attention that books regularly directed to other, far less plausible suspects. So the clear dishonesty of the mainstream media in avoiding any recognition of a conspiracy seems matched by a second layer of dishonesty in the alternative media, which has done its best to avoid recognizing the most likely perpetrator.
And the third layer of media dishonesty is the the most extreme of all. A quarter century ago, Final Judgment provided an enormous mass of circumstantial evidence suggesting a major, even dominant, role for the Israeli Mossad in organizing the elimination of both our 35rd president and also his younger brother, a scenario that seems second in likelihood only to that of Johnson’s involvement. Yet Piper’s hundreds of thousands of words of analysis have seemingly vanished into the ether, with very few of the major conspiracy researchers even willing to admit their awareness of a shocking book that sold over 40,000 copies, almost entirely by underground word-of-mouth.
So although committed partisans can continue endless, largely fruitless debates over “Who Killed JFK,” I think that the one firm conclusion we can draw from the remarkable history of this pivotal event of the twentieth century is that all of us have lived for many decades within the synthetic reality of “Our American Pravda.”
Related Reading:
- American Pravda: The JFK Assassination, Part I – What Happened?
- Final Judgment by Michael Collins Piper
- Did Israel Kill the Kennedys? by Laurent Guyénot
- Our American Pravda
you’re a real jerk unz
Copy edit: Dulles wrote The Craft of Intelligence, not to be confused with …Cult of Intelligence as in Marchetti’s title.
As always, thanks for the fascinating reading.
This article is a nice overview that explains the problem. There were many powerful groups who wanted Kennedy killed, and probably several plots were underway. Allow me to suggest “The Secret Team” by Col. Prouty to your reading list.
Your last post resulted in too many posts to read, but one pointed to an outstanding video of Lee Oswald’s life, showing facts that make it clear he was a CIA operative. Note that after he returned from Russia after openly committing treason, he was never arrested, and granted a spousal visa for his Russian wife. That undeniable fact itself is proof he was a CIA plant. Oswald hoped to become an official CIA officer and federal employee, but remained a low-level paid operative until his death. Oswald expressed concern in New Orleans that operatives were considered disposable.
Anyway, I highly recommend this great video:
I see.
I did not know of Ostrovsky’s claim but I was very aware of George H.W. Bush conflict with Yitzhak Shamir which most likely costed him the second term. The conflict obviously was very deemphasized by the MSM. Iirc Patrick Buchanan wrote about it. Bush decided to say NO to Israel and put conditions on providing further funding for immigrants form Russia to Israel. He did it having exceptionally high (90%) approval ratings in the wake of the Desert Storm. So timing was good. But after Congress going against him and AIPAC busing supporters of Israel to DC Bush caved in sometime in Sept. 1991. Buchanan believed that if Bush brought the issue to ‘American people’ he could have won this conflict but Bush decided to keep Americans in the dark which is a norm when it come to Israel issues. Bush only complained about being all alone in the White House during some press conference but most American did not get the idea what he was compliant about. The Lobby however did not forgive Bush and did not trust him getting the second term in the office. It must have been decided he had to go. An anti Bush campaign was continued by Safire and Friedman in weekly columns in the NYT and negative mostly exaggerated and bogus articles about weak economy were published. The ‘It’s the economy, stupid’ was bogus made up meme. Clinton was parachuted from Arkansas and Ross Perot was encouraged to run and then dis-encouraged when he suspended his campaign and then again encouraged to re-enter the race. He played exactly the same role as Teddy Roosevelt in 1912 election that stopped the incumbent Taft from getting the 2nd term. This gave presidency to Wilson who brought Federal Reserve and federal tax the the following year and the entrance into the WWI few years later. Was assassination considered as the plan B in case Bush was reelected? Do people from The Lobby talk about killing American presidents among themselves? Yes, they do – even publicly:
It seems like George H.W. Bush must have resigned himself to not being reelected. What message was he sending by checking the watch during a debate? Was the message: Do not worry I am just going through the motions. Do not need to kill me.
The question is how come the neocons decided to trust GW Bush? Richard Perle went to Austin TX and announced that Bush ignorance of the world affairs was an advantage: an empty vessel that they can fill. Did he also mean that it will be easy to control him like sending him against Iraq to avenge his father?
GW Bush got coached and tutored by Prince Bandar in 1997:
Ron, thanks for your decency and courage. I hope you have a good team of people protecting you.
Certainly seems like a rogue state.
I don’t believe Iran has assassinated any US politicians …
JFK was our 35th president; Truman was our 33rd president.
Here is a book that provides a plausible rationale for why the federal government would have covered up an assassination that was essentially a mob hit, ordered by Carlos Marcello and his associates:
https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-7867-1441-4
I read it a dozen or so years ago. It is quite poorly edited, and irritatingly repetitive, but I found much of it to be new and salient information that was facially credible to me, as a former attorney— also trained in, inter alia, History (B.A.), Personality & Social Psychology (M.S.), and Management & Organization (M.B.A.)— who has had a strong avocational interest in the JFK assassination since the 25th anniversary, in 1988, after watching a spate of television specials on the Kennedy Era, including one hosted by noted newspaper columnist Jack Anderson.
http://www.darkdocumentaries.com/conspiracy-documentaries/who-murdered-jfk-1988
Re-posting a comment I made in Part 1:
Jack Ruby directly accused Lyndon Johnson of being responsible for President Kennedy’s assassination.
This great documentary (“The day the dream died” – 1988) contains a interview of Jack Ruby never shown before (@38:20).
Asked who he believes is responsible for the murder of the President, Ruby answers:
Jack Ruby: ” When I mentioned about Adlai Stevenson if he was vice-President there would never have been an assassination of our beloved President Kennedy”.
Journalist: “Would you explain it again?”
Jack Ruby: “Well, the answer is the man in office now”
Jack Ruby made this accusation in 1967, the “man in office now” was Lyndon Johnson
At the time, he was seeking leave to appeal his conviction; this leave was granted.
Within weeks of this interview, he died of a previously undetected cancer.
The woman who shot the interview committed suicide.
I think the film entitled ‘JFK – the Smoking Gun’ makes the most sense.
” Despite these very difficult conditions, a member of the crew heroically managed to jerry-rig a replacement antenna during the attempt, and by trying numerous different frequencies, was able to evade the jamming ”
It was Israeli stupidity that made it possible to send a message despite the jamming.
Israel had constructed missiles that homed in on the antennae and frequencies the Liberty used.
However, the jamming emitters were so strong that the missiles flew in the direction of the jammers.
So these had to be switched off after each firing of a missile.
In these pauses, the Liberty could inform Washington that it was an Israeli attack.
Then McNamara had to call back the two bombers with atomic bombs already on their way to Cairo.
I’m racking my brain where I found this information, but no result, so far.
The Liberty incident is mentioned in many books, articles, and tv reports.
I have found that these “conspiracy theories” are usually quite simple to solve:
- verify that there was a conspiracy
- verify that there was a cover-up
- verify that mass media is in the cover-up
Then, who can make a cover-up in media?
- the mob, no
- the CIA, can try but really cannot do it long
- the US President, like for instance JFK, Nixon, Clinton, no
- the ones, who control the media and suppress publications they do not like, yes
Then only, why?
- the assassination of the president succeeded, so something major in the US politics changed
- only one major thing changed
Solving these problems is easy, but the opponents behave as lawyers in kangaroo courts: deny everything, play a moron, refer to judicial decision, start repeating childish mumble like wackawackaconspeeracy.. and so on.
For anyone who hasn’t seen it, here is a stabilized, panoramic version of the Zapruder film. With this, you can get a clearer idea of the scene and what really happened. For me at least, it removes a lot of the mystery, revealing that the physical event itself was not that remarkable, no matter who did it.
Another well-reasoned and highly-detailed article. I agree that we’ll probably never know many of the important details of how the assassination was planned and who was involved, given almost all the participants and witnesses are long since dead. However, we can almost certainly conclude that there was a conspiracy that involved many important individuals from the establishment, including President LBJ.
What are your thoughts on Seymour Hersh and his book “The Dark Side of Camelot”? I recall his book received very negative coverage by the MSM, but I can’t really judge how credible his claims happen to be. It’s a very shocking book though.
You mention here that you think our alternative media have been dishonest in analyzing LBJ’s likely role in the assassination. Why? Was it because the media feared LBJ might have them killed? Was it perhaps because some in our media were on the payroll and being used to distract from the “mastermind” assassin?
Here’s a good History Channel special on how LBJ may have been involved with the JFK assassination. I personally think it makes a pretty good case.
Here’s a picture that proves that Oswald and David Ferrie knew each other through the Civil Air Patrol.
https://isgp-studies.com/DL_1967_02_22_David_Ferrie_death
It also appears that Oswald may have known Clay Shaw. See quote below.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Clay_Shaw#Later_findings,_and_CIA_revelations
The CIA also admitted that Clay Shaw had worked for them in some capacity. See quote below.
More interesting information below.
So it appears likely that Oswald, Ferrie, and Shaw knew each other. Which is sort of strange.
Then there’s George de Mohrenschildt, a very complex and interesting character. I wonder if anyone here could tell me more about the nature of his relationship with Oswald.
I really liked Dark Journalist’s analysis of Oswald. I think I posted this video in the other thread.
Oswald was certainly a CIA asset, much like the late Osama Bin Laden.
Dan Rather lied about the event to the public.
Which was remarkable.
Watch Rather lie here.
See Col. L. Fletcher Prouty videos and books on the deep background for why the CIA hated JFK.
http://www.prouty.org/
Prouty was the source for Mr. X in Oliver Stone’s movie JFK. Prouty was an air force pilot in WWII. He flew missions around the world and witnessed history as it happened. After WWII, he worked in the pentagon as a liaison officer between the military and the CIA. He saw the original documents authorizing military support of CIA operations around the world.
As Prouty explains it, throughout human history war was a means of killing the other guy and taking his stuff. The preparation for war and the prosecution of war provided an organizing principle for human society that gave people the motivation to develop their own societies, lest the other guy become more powerful than you and kill you.
As he describes it, with the detonation of atomic weapons at the end of WWII, conventional war was instantly understood to be obsolete. In any future conventional war, if one side was about to win a decisive victory, the potentially losing side would simply go nuclear, and everyone would lose.
With the end of conventional war, and the impossibility of nuclear war, the global power elite invented the proxy war as the new means for the continuation of war as an organizing principle of society. In the U.S., the CIA was the tool for starting and prosecuting proxy wars.
Prouty describes how, at the end of WWII, he was flying supply missions to Okinawa for the staging of the invasion of Japan. The military bases in Okinawa were overflowing with every conceivable type of materiel necessary to support more than a million man invasion.
After the atomic bombs were dropped and Japan had surrendered, Prouty claims that he asked a supply officer if they were just going to send all the supplies back to the states.
The officer said no. He said that all the materiel was going to be divided in half, and that half was going to Seoul, Korea, and that the other half was going to Hanoi, Vietnam. Prouty believes that by 1945 Korea and Vietnam had already been decided to be the sites of the first proxy wars, and that the CIA was already involved in planning the wars.
Kennedy was planning to dismantle the CIA, and Prouty recounts in his books, lectures, and videos how the JFK assassination reversed the course of history.
The JFK assassination is an endless rabbit hole of history. If you jump in, you won’t come out the same way.
I’m reminded of an old joke:
Q: Who fired the shot that killed Mussolini?
A: A thousand Italian marksmen.
Johnson has been my perennial favourite as the person who had the most to gain, but he could not have done it without his Texas machinery, not the least of which was KBR, and they certainly had a lot to gain by elevating their boy to the pinnacle of power if the rumours, that JFK planned to scale back in Viet Nam, were true. Coincidence that it happened in Dallas? Hardly, in that scenario.
Other interesting players on the ground in Dallas that day included GHW Bush, who, unlike most Americans, can’t quite remember where he was when the President was shot. Was he behind it? Almost certainly not, but he may have been an unwitting co-conspirator by doing something tangentially connected, e.g. delivering cash. This is pure speculation, but it is interesting that he rose out of relative obscurity to become a Texas oilman, partnered with a former CIA operative, with oil interests in a number of international hotspots, and that formed the basis for him to build a fortune as well as launch a long and storied political career that saw him elected to Congress, then appointed to the head of the CIA, and ultimately crowned as President.
I particularly loved it when Trump tried to connect Ted Cruz’s father to Oswald. It is not entirely out of the question, given his father, while a anti-Batista rebel turned refugee-student at the U of Texas might have crossed paths with Oswald while in Texas ….
Yes, all roads seem to lead to Texas, except for that one that goes to NOLA, but that isn’s so far from TX, and it seems like the kind of place oil industry types might go to cat around and conspire on a coup. It’s also one of the few places in the South where Israelis might not appear to be so out of place.
As for the Israelis … well, they’re the Israelis. If they saw a shot to capture effective control of our government by offing a guy more likely to keep them in check for a venal type who probably didn’t give a rat’s behind for the Israelis, but salivated over destabilising the middle east, because destabilizing the middle east actually made Texas oil and other oil assets around the world controlled by or lifted by Texans in the oil industry far more valuable, then who can blame them for joining the cabal and taking the shot?
They went rogue long, long before they birthed the abomination they call Israel. These assassinations, as abhorrent as they are, are just one small example of the degree of hate that these people carry for all of humanity.
I would be interested in a comprehensive list of foreign politicians murdered by the National Socialists. I don’t believe there were any, even though jews and their “communist” useful idiots were busy picking off Germans throughout the entire period.
As Utu discusses, even H.W. Bush was threatened with murder. Imagine how frightening these murders and threats of murder would be if you were a smaller politician in a smaller country much closer to Israel. Or even a smaller poor country on the other side of the planet.
Recently we had an example of Jewish Power on display in Iceland and then Denmark. The vast majority of Iceland’s doctors and nurses decided that circumcision was bad, and the got their local politicians to support a bill to ban circumcision for boys under 18. That is when JP kicked in, and now not only has the bill been dropped, but Iceland will now pay for a Synogogue and a Rabbi in Iceland. The same think happened shortly after in Denmark.
There is no doubt that Jewish Power is global as their bullying of Iceland shows. There is no doubt that Jewish Power is very old, the Balfour declaration is proof of its scale for at least the last 100 years. There is no doubt that Jewish Power is very evil, with their unceasing campaign of assassination against anyone who threatens their agenda or their power, as this article and the comments are testament to.
Gods chosen people, through infiltration, subversion, murder and theft, have proven themselves to be the enemies of all humanity over and over and over again. Iran is the only country on the planet who have consistently and so bravely made this point. As you say, they don’t assassinate opponents, or steal their land and put them in open pit concentration camps for that matter.
The only campaign promise that Trump seems committed to is the destruction of Iran. Trump ran for president fully knowing the power and willingness of Jewish Power to assassinate opposition. He ran knowing that Jewish Power was behind him, because even he isn’t buffoon enough to run against Jewish Power. He ran in order to help Jewish Power crush Iran the way it crushed Russia, Germany, Libya, Egypt, Ukraine, Syria and many others.
“You mention here that you think our alternative media have been dishonest in analyzing LBJ’s likely role in the assassination. Why? Was it because the media feared LBJ might have them killed? Was it perhaps because some in our media were on the payroll and being used to distract from the “mastermind” assassin?”
You have the reason already in Maurice Joly’s Dialogues. The opposition media is created to nominally represent alternative views but in reality to silence of the issues you want silenced. Even the opposition, which always picks up on everything, agrees with this issue, so it accepted by all. Much of the alternative media has nothing to fear as it is not alternative media in anything but appearance. But with the Internet it is getting harder to do this. Finally they fail.
“As for the Israelis … well, they’re the Israelis. If they saw a shot to capture effective control of our government by offing a guy more likely to keep them in check for a venal type who probably didn’t give a rat’s behind for the Israelis, but salivated over destabilising the middle east, because destabilizing the middle east actually made Texas oil and other oil assets around the world controlled by or lifted by Texans in the oil industry far more valuable, then who can blame them for joining the cabal and taking the shot?”
So, LBJ just wanted to promote Texas oil and to become the President, no special Israel connection? And the Israelis just joined the cabal and who can blame them?
I found it very interesting that young LBJ was helping in the Galveston project. Galveston somehow reminded me of Jacob Schiff. And I also found it fascinating that young Allan Dulles was the guy who produced the very copy of Joly’s Dialogues from which Ohrana plagiarized the Protocols. Both were working for the dark side from their youth.
Yes it is strange that the elder George Bush, who had exorcised the ‘ghost of Vietnam’, through his rout of Saddam’s forces in Kuwait and earned a 90% approval rating, went on to lose to Clinton supposedly on account of the economy. The idiot Ross Perot, a capitalist weaned on the government teat had of course a role. But I thought that the elder Bush was a shoo-in. Then came Clinton, selling off the Americans’ industrial birthright for a song to the Chinese and the kabuki theatre of the Israeli-Palestinian ‘peace process’. In James Baker, one had the least sympathetic of Secretary of States to Israel in a long time
I recall the image making by the press when GB became inconvenient, although a veteran pilot in WW2, he was painted as a proverbial wimp.
This is a very good continuation of RU’s previous article & I agree with most of it to different degrees re candidates for conspiracy: LBJ (probably), Israel/Mossad (possibly, not probably).
But, more important, at least to me, is the question: does it really matter, anymore?
In 1963, US was mostly Euro-American country, with 85-90% whites & “normal” behavior.
Now, 55 years later, both US & most of the white countries, excluding many ex-Communist lands, are so different that Kennedy’s ideas, motives,… hardly matter. We live in a radically altered world.
Whites in the US are now 60-65% of the population & dominant discourse is anti-white, anti-European, Negromaniac, Mestizophilic, Asian-fetishist & Judeo-idolatrian. Everything historically Western is demonized.
Lunatic ideologies are step-by-step destroying the West: radical feminism (http://diversitymachtfrei.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-problem-with-feminism-why.html ), homosexualism (not homosexuality) as ideology, media manipulation in favor of miscegenation (always at the expense of whites), deathly combination of crass materialism & failure of nerve- probably in past 400 years European peoples had never been so well off & so hopeless simultaneously. All industrialized people do not procreate at satisfactory levels (Japanese, Chinese, Koreans,..), but there is a bunch of them & at least they are not letting foreigners in. Only various white peoples both invite masses of racially or culturally unassimilable foreigners (Muslims, Africans, Mestizos) & refuse to have progeny because they want “good and unencumbered life”.
Add media moronization & addiction to technologies making ego-centric (and anti-individualistic) idiots of most people- what could get wrong?
After counter-cultural 60s that had catastrophically changed Western countries (US, France, UK, Germany,..) for good & the dominance of New Left world-view (loony fake anti-Fascism, hostility towards working class, free sex & promiscuity, homosex popularization, obsession with drugs, radical feminism, hatred toward historical Western culture, moral relativism, hatred for Christianity, anti-male animus, Negrolatry, anti-rationalism & dumbing down of entire generations, ..) for at least 2-3 irredeemable decades – does it matter who & why killed JFK, anymore?
Indeed, as with MH17.
Literally overnight EU sanctions against Russia were possible.
And, as with Kennedy, what exactly happened, we do not know, and, I fear, will never know.
On the afternoon of the day of the disaster prime minister Rutte phoned vice prime minister Asscher, who was on vacation in the south of France.
Rutte asked him to call back on a landline ‘so that Russia could not listen in’.
Fool Asscher told this in a tv show.
Nobody has asked Asscher what was so secret a few hours after the disaster that the Russians should not know.
Why was the Diana ‘accident’ ?
I suppose to prevent that the future British king would have a Muslim stepfather.
Why was Anna Lyndh killed accidentally ?
She was to be the next Swedish prime minister, in favor of a EU economic boycott of Israel
Why was the phoney Hess suicided ?
Had he talked WWII history would have to be rewritten.
Why was Kelly suicided ?
He knew quite well Blair’s nonsense about the 45 minutes WMD’s
And so on and so forth
OK, so I didn’t peel enough layers of the rotting onion. I guess I still accept the story that LBJ was a middle-Texas school teacher who done good for himself.
Yes indeed, the Kennedy assassination is a rabbit hole. It’s a case you can study for 10 years and still don’t know everything there is to know.
As for culprits, don’t lose sight of this: the autopsy of John Kennedy was under control of the military. And the Lone Assassin tale could not be maintained if it weren’t for the botched autopsy. Ask yourself: what power could make the military doctors do as they did? The maffia? Hardly. LBJ? No. Israel? No sir.
The killer shooting the fatal shot at President Kennedy’s head from the Grassy Knoll was captured on the Orville Nix film.
Anybody can judge by themselves on this extract:
The Orville Nix film was “lost” by the authorities before the Warren Commission proceedings. Fortunately, a secret copy had been made, and was broadcast in the 1988 documentary “The day the dream died”.
I believe the Zionists in Israel placed the order and Freemasons in the American Deep State executed the order. It’s also quite possible that Zionist terrorists did the actual shooting as they had the experience in killing Western high profile targets (Moyne, Bernadotte, King David Hotel bombing, etc) but more likely that elements of the Deep State in America who hated JFK did the actual shooting. In either case, Oswald was not lone-nut and the case is certainly not closed. We know this because Trump recently reclassified the sealed JFK assassination records which were mandated to be released in October, 2017. He stated that he did so to protect “national security” (aka protect the Deep State and Israel) and to protect the “names and addresses” of individuals still alive. Trump, far from being an opponent of the Deep State, is actually working hand-in-hand with them (the Mueller “investigation” is actually smoke and mirrors to distract the Sheeple from the fact that Trump is actually part of the Deep State).
I made a bad choice of words when I wrote that the event was not remarkable.
I was just trying to say that the stabilized, panoramic film puts me there and it all seems so simple. You can even see how the driver slowed way down. (No conspiracy, just him reacting to all the commotion in the back seat, but also making the head shot easier.)
Anyway, Dan Rather lying probably isn’t remarkable. LOL
JFK’s head actually did move forward before it moved backward, whether or not Rather or anybody else noticed at the time. (This neither negates nor confirms a conspiracy, BTW.)
Working and living in Europe at the time of the JFK assassination, and lunching with French colleagues the very next day I explained that the USA has many half-crazed individuals with easy access to firearms and, contrary to what my colleagues all thought, there was no need for a plot.
These many years later I am still convinced: no plot and no plotters just another American with a gun.
(Doesn’t anyone else remember his weird mother?)
I’ve heard Stone talk about Nixon’s reaction to seeing Ruby shoot Oswald, but this surely wasn’t an eyewitness account, as Stone was in 6th grade at the time. His career as a political operative goes back about 45 years to volunteering for CREEP as a college student in 1972, somewhat less as an influential one.
Apparently Johnson’s mistress said he told her in so many words that the assassination was going to happen. I think there’s little doubt that he was aware and acquiescent, perhaps an active participant. Ruby probably was his man, and he and Ruby both likely were Israel’s men. A few years later Johnson was blood in the water for the mainstream media shark tank over Vietnam and civil disorder. If he were the prime mover of the JFK assassination, I doubt that the media would uniformly have laid off the subject. Only Israel, it would seem, could have orchestrated such a massive and continuous cover up.
To see who had JFK killed read the book , JFK, the CIA and VIETNAM by the late Col. L. Fletcher Prouty and the same people are the ones who had RFK and JFK jr. killed and are the same ones who did 911 and the USS LIBERTY, it was the satanic Zionists who are in control of the U.S. gov.
Michael Collins Piper was from Mifflintown, Pennsylvania – a good old central Pennsylvania boy. One of my people. Glad Mr. Unz has seen the light on this one.
Way back many decades (I think the late 1970s) someone gave me a paperback book about the JFK assassination. I recall neither the name of the book nor its title. After I read it, I passed it on to an older relative. When I asked what the relative thought of the book, he said he tossed it in the trash because it was the craziest of all the conspiracy books. He said it likely was a self-published book.
What I recall about the book is that the author suggested that LBJ almost certainly had to be involved, with the CIA and organized crime. The author also suggested that there had to be some major Republican Party involvement, most likely with the CIA the tie.
There is hope yet, as Pitt the Younger famously remarked after Trafalgar, “we have saved ourselves by our exertions and we shall save Europe by our example”.
The number of European leaders who echo him is growing
More on Abraham Feinberg: http://www.israellobby.org/Feinberg/default.asp
The seventh and final edition of Final Judgment (completed in 2011) was recently published (after PIper’s death) by American Free Press. But AFP (in the persons of the Cartos) was the entity that mercilessly harassed Piper in his final years, kept cutting his salary, failed to provide him with medical benefits and ultimately drove him to destitution:
https://afpstore.americanfreepress.net/product/final-judgment-special-double-offer/
It was a great tragedy that JFK was struck down 13 months before the ending of his first term. Not because he was so good for the country but that Johnson was so bad.
No doubt he would have been returned by the electorate for a second term. However, if some of the scandels had been leaked the margin would be narrow and the landslide in Congress wouldn’t occur. Therefore, the most punishing of Johnson’s damaging legislation would have died in committee and never become part of the US Code.
Another question: what are the names of the others cited by E.Howard Hunt in his questionable death bed confessions?
It matters because 1963 was the year that the sixties sort of began. The hippies, Vietnam, black militancy, entrenched underclasses on welfare, out-of-wedlock births, corrupt and lying politicians etc.
The reason people obsess with the Kennedy Assassination is that society was suddenly blighted.
Your last quote from the historycommons website sounds quite plausible but what reason is there to believe that isn’t totally made up: essentially a work of fiction?
The ‘bad-apples’ disinformation relies on the idea that compartmentation and plausible deniability are incompatible with strict hierarchy. CIA lets a thousand flowers bloom when it makes a directive, but its assets are always strictly controlled with inducements, coercion, and compromise. The multiple JFK plots show CIA’s telltale M.O. for important programs, not hordes of sneaky bad apples.
All the mafia-did-it disinformation relies on a sharp distinction between CIA and organized crime. Anywhere CIA is, they farm crime for agents and cutouts. Robert Kennedy Jr. makes this point in his book American Values (and that is why it sank without a ripple.)
And of course Johnson had foreknowledge. He was at Clint Murchison’s party, in the little closed-door conclave where CIA green-lighted the coup. So was Rockefeller henchman John McCloy. CIA arranged to implicate lots of influential people.
The key point here is CIA impunity. CIA did it because CIA can get away with it. That makes Johnson a figurehead, not a potential threat.
Here’s what we all have to face. All of us grew up under an autocratic CIA regime that hires and fires presidents, legislators, and judges. Kills them, too. They still kill or torture anyone they want. Ask Gina.
Now we’re going to get a thousand CIA bots doing minor variants of this,
https://digwithin.net/2018/06/24/disruption/
CIA did it. Give it up, Gina, we know.
I too have read Stone’s book and, while he did not in any way “prove” that LBJ had JFK shot, he certainly laid out a plausible case for his involvement. Any one who has read Caro’s series of books on LBJ will come away with the realization that he (Johnson) was capable of having him assassinated as well as having the means and the motivation. The man had no principles or scruples whatsoever.
I can’t comment on any Israeli involvement, but praise for Ron Unz for adding his voice to those who believe LBJ almost had to have played a role in that event. Like others here, I was not a JFK fan either. But johnson’s elevation to the presidency was an unparalleled disaster for the USA.
The late Col. Fletcher Prouty was assigned to the Pentagon in charge of Air Force support of CIA operations in the years leading up to the assassination. His boss there was Gen. Edward Lansdale, nominally Air Force but actually undercover CIA, father of Special Forces and the engineer of the coup in the Philippines in the mid-fifties. Those familiar with the JFK treachery will recall the clear press photos of “the three tramps”, men arrested in the railroad yard behind the grassy knoll, who were led away and never seen again. Two of those men were Howard Hunt (CIA) and Charles Harrelson (Texas mafia assassin). One of these photos shows a suited man passing by casually, seeming to reassure the three men. Col. Prouty, who worked closely with Lansdale for years, positively identified him and this was affirmed by Gen. “Brute” Krulak, who was at the time commander of MAAG in South Vietnam. The distinctive shape of his head and his West Point ring are clearly visible. Go to the website dedicated to Col. Prouty’s works at http://www.prouty.org for this and much else directly from the horse’s mouth. By the way, toward the end of the nineties, the only fingerprint on the sixth floor of the book depository that was not identified after the assassination was matched to Malcolm Wallace, Lindon Johnson’s hitman, reportedly executing at least three murders for him.
Bardon, as usual, has summed the issues succinctly and accurately. Down the rabbit-hole of irrelevant and unnecessary history goes the JFK assassination conspiracy — again.
I am mildly curious as to how much of a workout Cloudflare will get. It’s evening in Tel Aviv … the Unz DDOS brigade seems apathetic. Johnson, huh? Okay, back to crushing Iran and plans for the Palestinian Trail of Tears.
Viewing the Zapruder film carefully, one can see that, during the six seconds of shooting, the limousine’s brake lights are on and it almost comes to a halt. The chauffeur is looking back all this time and does not speed off until he sees JFK’s head explode. There is a film clip that shows that, as the cortege begins to leave Love Field, the SS agents that attempted to ride in the normal protective position on the back bumper were called away by the chief of the detail. The two men protested strongly but were ordered back to a car. There were no motorcycle outriders, a standard security procedure. The 1112th Military Intelligence group, which normally would have secured the parade route was ordered to stand down and there was no additional security to replace them. Make of it what you will.
“phoney Hess?” Are you saying that someone who wasn’t Hess aĺlowed himself to be locked up for decades?
And why would a 93 year old who hadn’t spilled any beans suddenly become a risk? Anything he said could have been dismissed as the product of dementia?
What pathetic bollocks. You should write for CNN.
If the doctors attending on Kennedy at the Parklands Hospital, men experienced with gunshot wounds, all agreed, as they did, that Kennedy was killed by a bullet to the front of his head, then he was not killed by bullets from the Texas School Book Depository window where Oswald is alleged to have been. Therefore, the Warren Commission Report is based on lies. In particular, a phony autopsy report and a rewriting of the autopsy report findings by none other than President-to-be, Gerald Ford. That’s not a matter of plausibilities or possibilities, liklihoods or non-certainties. It’s as hard evidence as you ever likely to get in a court of law.
But Israel didn’t do it! LOL. Who said Israel did do it? Only some of the nutters that comment freely here.
What would be interesting, if anyone would take the trouble to do it, is to delve more deeply into the political connections of the people in the CIA who organized the crime. If LBJ was the greatest beneficiary, it is nevertheless likely that there were Republicans on side with the killing, otherwise the CIA would surely not have acted. That E. Howard Hunt, Mexico City CIA station chief at the time of the assassination appears to have been connected with the event through (a) Oswald’s visit to the Mexico City CIA office, and (b) Hunt’s alleged presence in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination, suggests that Hunt’s role in the Watergate burglary was to see what information the Democratic Party may have had relating to the assassination that could have been used to damage Richard Nixon in his run for re-election.
All of this seems pretty interesting and completes my suppositions as to what happened to JFK and RFK and who was responsible and, perhaps even more importantly, who benefited “cui bono” a usual criterion in determined who instigated a murder.
Tony in 46
Tell us : who is the MAN in the suit with a West Point ring that was identified by both Prouty and Gen Krulak?
Births last exceeded deaths in the Federal Republic in 1971. That may be in the process of changing, but it won’t be actual racial Germans doing the procreating.
” … Johnson may indeed have been a passive supporter or even an accomplice.”
Lyndon Johnson’s long-standing friendship/strategic partnership with J. Edgar Hoover points to the “passive supporter” role. Act of Treason (1991), by Mark North, documents Hoover’s knowledge of, but not active participation in, the JFK hit. Hoover’s job was to provide bureaucratic support of the coup d’état and to ease his friend Lyndon into the White House.
The prime mover in the assassination was the Allen Dulles cabal at CIA: The presence of Lee Harvey Oswald speaks of James Angleton’s involvement. But the details of the network that took the operational role still seems to be in question. There was that group of U.S. intelligence officers and Mafia figures that began during the second world war. And now the new research that suggests an Israeli role on one hand, and Fourth Reich elements on the other. (Fourth Reich elements being the Otto Skorzeny network known as Die Spinne or Odessa that had ties with MacArthur’s WW2 intelligence chief Charles Willoughby.)
So the mystery continues. But however the network that assumed the operational role in the JFK hit was configured, Allen Dulles was the godfather.
Jackie Kennedy thought Johnson was behind it. I believe Bobby Kennedy did too.
https://www.irishcentral.com/news/jackie-kennedy-lyndon-b-johnson-jfk-murder
Nice summary of the salient points of the assassinations. A couple of things that did not get mentioned:
The “wink” as LBJ was being sworn in. It clinches it.
Marion Brown’s statement that LBJ, her lover, told her well in advance that JFK was going to be killed.
Peter Dale Scott stated: The door to the assassination is through Jack Ruby.
Ruby’s phone calls were looked at by the FBI and Justice Dept., and catalogued. Almost all were to Jewish mafia figures–not Italians. When the House Assassinations Committee asked for these transcripts, they were told they no longer existed! But old copies were eventually found. Someone in DOJ tried to scrub them from the records.
One of the best books on the assassination IMHO is Gaeton Fonzi’s “The Last Investigation.”
Piper’s book is essential reading, but he focuses only on Israel and the Jewish connections. Because of its lack of “balance”, it should not be read as a stand-alone treatise on the JFK assassination.
Among my top ten books are–admittedly a list long out of date:
On the Trail of the Assassins
The Last Investigation
Deep Politics and the Death of JFK
JFK and the Unspeakable
Final Judgment (with above reservations)
Probably more important would be a list of books absolutely NOT to be read–among them Gerald Posner’s “Case Closed.”
As a general rule, you can consider ANYONE arguing that Unz is full of s$#t and Oswald did it as a crazed lone assassin, is a paid TROLL. The assassinations are grounded in solid research that has been going on since the 1970s, when I attended a four-hour lecture by David Lifton at SUNY Stony Brook–an event that literally toppled my world. It has never recovered.
Oh I get it now. Mr. Unz is attempting to get the massive amount of JFK conspiracy buffs to look at his anti-Semetic tracks by giving them, in Part One, his long overdue acceptance of JFK conspiracy analysis. Woo- hoo. Who needs his stamp of approval? But now I realize, his “approval” is designed to lead his readers down his Jew hatred road to a modern Protocols of the Elders of Zion explanation of not only the JFK killing but most modern day world events. Nice try jew hater.
You might want to find a copy of Dr. Mary’s Monkey. I think it is a really good read about a side story to the JFK assassination about the goings on in New Orleans and the CIA.
Watch the film. You can casually count off five or six seconds just between the second and third shots (the neck wound and the head wound). The first shot (assuming you agree with most witnesses that there were three heard at least) happened some time before, missed and is not seen in this film.
For years people have been making a simple, common mistake and thinking there were only six seconds for all three shots, when in fact approximately six seconds passed between the last two shots. This simple thought error has been the basis of a lot of claims that the shooter didn’t have time for three good shots. He missed, then hit the neck, and six seconds later hit the head while the car was nearly motionless.
As to the driver slowing down. Think. He is looking back because his passengers are screaming. He hits the brakes and tries to find out what is happening. There is no reason to think he stopped so somebody could shoot.
Again, watch the stabilized, panoramic film. Then, if you need to, go to Dallas and see how small Dealy Plaza really is and how easy it would have been to make those shots from that window.
As I say about 9/11: You don’t need to construct some Rube Goldberg series of actions and a magic team to have a conspiracy. There can be a conspiracy even if you agree with Occam and take the simplest route.
It matters only because the truth always matters, and until it is satisfied it will always be a pebble in the shoe. The past is only past because it has happened, but in its own strange way its always with us. Events that occurred 200 years ago affect today, as well as those events from 500 years ago. And sometimes things need to be covered up for very good reasons.
As for our “kulcher”, I personally believe it’s just part of a nations life cycle. None of us age younger, neither does a nation, it can also die.
“(Doesn’t anyone else remember his weird mother?)”
I remember her. She was resentful toward society, a trait her son fully imbibed and inherited. When Ruby killed Oswald, his mother demanded he be buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
In reference to my previous comment about Piper being from Mifflintown, I should also like to point out for Mr. Unz’s benefit that drinking too much alcohol, while certainly connected to poverty, is as much a PA Yinzer tradition as it is a poverty problem. If some of these folks were rich, they’d still drink too much. That’s the vibe I get whenever I watch videos with Piper. LOL.
Sorry for the error: Make that LBJ’s mistress Madeline Brown, NOT Marion!
If not for the possible Israeli connection, the truth might have come out by now?
Anything to protect the Jewish Power?
As with USS Liberty.
Both Parts I and II are excellent. Intuitively, I can agree with your conclusions. A minor point: Margaret is the first name of Harry Truman’s daughter.
Unreal! It never fails to amaze me how the most vituperative of Israel-lovers just cannot fucking spell “antisemitic”. The single most important factor in their tiny little lives, but they just won’t learn how to spell it.
I very much doubt that. Johnson died at the beginning of 1973, a very widely despised and hated figure, and surely few people feared any retaliation much after that, let alone Talbot and Douglass writing forty years later.
I suspect there were several factors, mostly the ones I outlined in my discussion.
First, most JFK researchers were strong liberals or otherwise admired “Camelot,” and it surely would have been very difficult for them to psychologically accept that most of JFK’s top people were perfectly willing to continue working for LBJ, if the latter had murdered the former.
Also, “LBJ Killed JFK” might sound like such a ultra “crazy conspiracy theory” to publishers and editors who overwhelmingly may still believe that a “lone gunman” killed JFK. So writers who considered making such a claim might fear having their careers totally ruined. I think fear of humiliation, reputation-loss, and the resulting financial damage is a far greater factor than fear of physical harm.
Here’s another factor. Having a vice president come to power by assassinating his predecessor is the sort of thing that just doesn’t happen in developed First World countries. Offhand, I can’t think of even a single case in any major country over the last couple of hundred years. It would probably be pretty embarrassing for even a Third World banana-republic. What respectable American historian would want to admit that the politics of our own country at the height of its international prestige during the early 1960s may have actually made Guatemala look like a shining example of orderly, constitutional government?…
Ron Unz is Jewish and grew up in a Yiddish speaking home.
Nice try Jewish fanatic.
“Culture” is not a subset of “nation”. The American culture has changed — all culture changes in accordance with external influences. America, as a nation founded under a set of Enlightenment principles, has ended. There remains a huge morass/aggregation of conflicting cultures, overseen and manipulated by a horrificly corrupt government.
Why the neocons called him a wimp?
In 1990 George H.W. Bush was very reluctant to go against Saddam Hussain. He seemed to really believe in the so called “peace dividends”, base closings and scaling military down. And then Saddam Hussain with possible approval April Glaspie fucked it all up for him and us. It was Margaret Thatcher that twisted his arms to go against Saddam Hussein. Then when in the Dessert Storm he did not let escalate the plan and stopped the troops form going all the way into Iraq. The neocons did not like him.
Why we can call him a wimp?
In 1991 he decided to confront Israel but then backed off instead of escalating and letting the American people know that he needed their support against The Lobby and the sold out Congress.
Good point about JP exercise of power in Iceland. Circumcision is more important to them than they let us believe.
Very nice. Just one thing, though- anyone who was an adult during the Cold War understands the immense importance of propaganda and ‘optics’ as they say now. In 1981 the French Communist Party won 15% of the Presidential vote. Together with the Socilaist Party that was a combined 40%.
Much of what constituted American’ political theater’ in the Cold War era consisted of ‘double bank-shot’ efforts to convince a somewhat cold and borderline hostile European public to support the trans-Atlantic alliance and the American system which underlay it, a difficult proposition given that European leftists were ideologically opposed to America’s capitalist system, while seemingly natural-ally European rightists were often repulsed by the gauche nature of American culture, critical of unrestrained ‘Anglo-Saxon’ capitalism, plus resentful of American pop-cultural ‘imperialism’ as well.
In such a climate the cultivation of a positive American image abroad was a primary concern of the Deep State, and given what immeasurable harm the exposure of a CIA coup would have done to America’s standing as ‘leader of the free world’ I cannot imagine the plot was CIA-hatched or led. CIA connivance and behind-the-scenes assistance raises very interesting possibilities, though.
I recently learned of another smoking gun. After JFKs Limo arrived at Parkland hospital, many people looked it over and took photos. There was a bullet hole through the front windshield. It entered from the front, yet was never discussed afterwards by anyone. The Limo was hauled away to Washington within hours and secretly repaired. There are lots of links about this, such as:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/06/douglas-p-horne/photographic-evidence-of-bullet-hole-in-jfk-limousine-windshield-hiding-in-plain-sight/
Something to consider is that these people in the intelligence agencies are supposed to protect America, but they can’t even spot an assassination when it occurs right under their noses with a pile of evidence stacked to the ceiling. The majority of Americans can see it, but not the people tasked with “keeping us safe.” WTF?
In the RFK assassination we have video and photos of CIA assassins in the hotel when it occurs, but they can’t see that either.
We have endless crime shows on TV with forensic experts tracking killers, but our real law enforcement officials can’t see anything wrong with the way WTC building 7 implodes.
We are talking about treason and it is ongoing, not simply in the past. Trump delayed release of the Kennedy files yet again.
Who killed RFK?
If a lonely nut killed JFK it does not matter. If Israel and Jewish Power killed JFK it matters very much. If by a magic wand I could make people believe that Israel and Jewish Power were behind JFK assassination it would be much easier to stop and undo all those things that you have listed:
‘hit the neck’. There you go, bs on stilts, proving instantly you know damn all. The bullet hit in the back, several vertebrae down from the neck. The holes can be seen in the jacket and shirt. This bullet did not penetrate more than a couple of inches, as established at autopsy. Therefore, it could not have traversed the body and gone on its magical mystery tour, grievously wounding Connally, yet remaining virtually pristine. Ford, as he admitted, moved the notation of the location in the back upwards to the neck in the Report in an unsustainable attempt to make the Magic Bullet bs believable for cretins who hadn’t the wit nor the inclination to do any digging. The earth is not flat, there was no lone nut.
No, it will be done by all those conspiracy teorists who will argue minor points about bullets, gunmen, second Oswalds, missing brains, Zapruder films and so on ad nausea. And most of them will be doing it in good faith not realizing they are useful idiots for CIA etc. Idiots usually do not realize.
The technical discussion of JFK assassination should be banned from this thread. If you want to talk about technical issues go to the Part I of Ron Unz’s article.
You ask cui bono for an assassination of a US president in a cold war with the Soviets and their leftist puppets and don’t come with the answer “the Soviets and their leftist puppets”?
Anyone who can write that a “wink” “clinches it” without joking is beyond help.
A remote viewer psychic came up with an interesting notion as to why JFK was murdered. The power brokers believed he was reckless and a danger to the whole world.
It’s a miracle that the Cuban missile crisis didn’t end the world. USSR sub commanders had immediate authority to use nuclear weapons if attacked – and they were depth charged.
It may have been the icing on the cake.
Which is why I wrote:
Please forgive me if anything I posted on this thread lead in the technical direction and away from the theme of Part II.
My very point was to show how the physical event can be seen very simply and set aside so as not to interfere with a clear-headed examination of the people and powers that may have been involved.
As I am in agreement with your comment, I will not further reply to anyone arguing bullets, wounds, shooters, etc.
This is simply wrong. Basically, it’s the Joo (or any other) conspiracy, according to this world-view.
The crucial mistake virtually all conspiracy- theories minded people make is that they try to pin-point a clearly defined group (mostly religious, ethnic, racial,..) as the source of major socio-cultural changes, and frequently it’s Jews (sometimes masons or something similar).
And this is a major misfire, because no such group exists. There is no causal connection between any ethnicity/race/… & great upheavals in the West (and in the US) in past 3-4 decades, especially re immigration debates, influx of culturally & racially foreign and inimical masses, disintegration of family & denigration of national loyalties etc. To think that a group (or groups), which is relatively easy to identify, can be the source of such monumental upheavals bespeaks of historical illiteracy.
There was no ethnic nor ideological group of people behind such shattering revolutions & world-view changes like transition from Roman republic to Imperial Rome, Protestant Reformation, Crusades, formation of national monarchies, Enlightenment, collapse of “divine rights” of kings, imperialist expansion of European powers, national awakening in the 19th C, WW1 and WW2,… Not Jews, not masons, not Illuminati, not Rosicrucians, not some occult brotherhood residing in the Himalayas.
Simply, Western civilization has come to a dead end -as it was the continuity of the 18th C Enlightenment- and we are witnessing the processes of further decay, encapsulated in famous hypothetical question ascribed to Lenin: ” Are the forces which propel us to greatness the same that will, transformed by mutations of History, eventually lead to our collapse ?”
A man who, despite his shortcomings & delusions about the role of technology, various national cultures and their dominant currents, understood this better than most was Oswald Spengler. The Western civilizational matrix is old and tired. And this is the root of the Western decline. That what plagues the West & the US the most (race replacement, PC “liberal” ideological muzzle, hedonist emptiness & biological collapse manifested in infertility, pathological altruism, lunatic ideological fashions like n-th wave of feminism, media aggression promoting “diversity” & homosexualism- as different from homosexuality, self-hatred of European & Western culture….)-this is as present, although a bit modified, in Italy, Spain, Denmark, Norway, France, Germany, Switzerland,.. as in the US. And in these countries Jewish presence in the media & the overall life is negligible or non-existent.
Although ruling elites differ in these countries, they are a mixture of hereditary aristocracy, established bourgeois families & plutocratic oligarchs. These groups have, historically, served their countries. Now, they are morally & culturally bankrupt and serve outmoded gods whose future is annihilation- similar situation that had befallen pompous & deluded aristocrats in the 18th-19th C or imperialist jingoists in the 20th.
The failure of nerve that comes with exhausted & geriatric social-cultural matrix is to blame, not some group conspiracy.
But, the societal-cultural matrix is exhausted, not the people. Our flaw is linear extrapolation of current events which leads to paralyzing pessimist fatalism. We should know from history this is a fatal mistake. Just compare Europe in 1930 (cars, planes, fascism, communism, cubism, quantum mechanics, relativity, psychoanalysis, radio, tanks, films, ..) and during 1900 (technologically, scientifically, ideologically and artistically more or less the same as 1880).
So, we should not give up hope, and some of us who are obsessed with Jews, should give up this tired old chestnut. If all of US Jewish ethno-nationalists were booted to Israel, life would be somewhat easier for Euro-Americans in some respects, but not essentially different. Blacks would remain blacks, PC muzzle would remain PC muzzle, dopeheads would remain dopeheads, Pentagon would remain Pentagon, …
Meeting place/honeypot (70/30).
The former:obvious.
The later: collection->analysis. Mostly as exercise and just as a slight precaution.
Zionist conspiracy theorist’s look at Piper’s Final Judgment. Barry Chamish is the one who worked on Rabin’s assassination and his conspiracy theory got some traction. He notes that JFK Jr. was publishing and working and Rabn’s assassination before being killed in the plane accident near Martha’s Vineyard. Anyway, it is worth reading:
I remember at the time that Bush failed to sufficiently goose the economy. By the time it became obvious, it was too late. Does anyone else remember the tax rebate checks mailed in 1992?
They went out in early 1992 and kicked in the Fall, to late for the election, but Clinton got full credit for an improving economy. Any wonder why the Fed didn’t pitch in?
What about the Nixon coup? First they got rid of his VP and installed Warren Commission stooge Gerald Ford. Then they framed Nixon for BS and pressured him to resign. Nixon knew what happened to JFK who resisted.
Read about the thugs who arrived to stop the Florida vote recount so that Bush II could take over, along with the Supreme Court intervetion to stop democracy. Gore went along because of threats to his family.
Both very third-worldy to me.
I gotta go with the dog that didn’t bark. The only actor that could suppress any mention in print is the prime candidate. But if they could do it, did they need to do it?
First, you assassinate the man and than have his widow sack up with one of the Tribe and to add icing on the cake, have his beloved daughter also marry one to let the world know who is the real boss!
And who better than Israel to get in the political assassination business… you need a white Jew to do a Swede in, no problem! You wanna knock off a Gandhi… no problem! Just get one of Kochin ones or a Idi Amin… get a falasha. How about a Mao or En Lai if they act against the Tribe? Get a Kaifeng convert ready. How about a Sadat? Well! There are Arab looking ones dime a dozen. You can’t escape the machine…
Blood Money & Power by Barr McClennan
Murder From Within by Fred Newcomb
Both books claim Johnson killed Kennedy.
McClennan is the son of one of Johnson’s attorneys
I read them both along with Piper’s book.
They make a lot more sense that the right wing atmosphere of hate Dallas PD including officer Tippett another of Oswald’s Victims and president bush & cia fbi secret service army navy Air Force departments of agriculture and every other government department and of course the man directing the military ambush by 15 shooters, umbrella man.
Have fun with your myths legends and fairy tales, naive credulous gullible idiots.
Brave statements here.
Good luck….
If you find time while surviving the coming onslaught, I meant re-education/informing, well, what’s the solution to the:
and
The Warren Commission Report was a cover up. The evidence for that is clear for the reasons I have stated here.
And if the Warren Commission Report was a cover up, what had they to cover up? Government complicity in the assassination of JFK, obviously. So who, in particular, was involved. Well obviously that branch of government that does assassinations, the CIA. But that does not mean that the CIA went rogue.
The CIA serves the powers that be, so whatever the antagonism of some individuals within the Agency, the CIA would not have acted on the assassination of JFK without bipartisan political support.
LBJ, the obvious beneficiary, had every reason to give the CIA the nod, but someone on the other side of the aisle had to be complicit too. Who?
Well Nixon had been the Republican Presidential candidate in the previous election, so he was the effective head of the party and thus the man to go to.
As I argue here, Nixon’s guilty knowledge of the assassination may have been the real cause of his downfall. Nixon’s Vice President, Gerald R. Ford had been appointed to the Warren Commission by LBJ and it was he who made a critical falsification of that report, therby casting responsibility for the killing on Lee Harvey Oswald.
It is likely, therefore, that Ford had the goods on Nixon and blackmailed him into resignation over the Watergate inquiry.
What exactly did the editor of Atlanta Jewish Time who called for Obama assassination say? I could not find the original but here is the quote in The Atlantic
Where from did Mr. Andrew Adler, who was forced to resign later, get the idea of killing a president so he would be replaced with Israel friendly VP? Did Mr. Adler study JFK assassination and LBJ policy with respect to Israel? Or is it a common knowledge and common Jewish modus operandi: kill whoever does not like Israel? Do Jews think and talk about assassinating of American presidents who are unfriendly to Israel? Do Jews believe that the Deep Sate in Israel considers assassinations and act on it when necessary?
Buzz, don’t let U2 buffalo you. He is invariably full of his personalized bullshit. If you wish to raise issues relating to physical evidence, please do.
I’ve noticed that some of the “autopsy” photographs abounding on the Internet seem to have morphed into gory displays of brain tissue, literally piled up at the back of the skull. Easily double the amount of brain matter actually present in the shallowly-transected segment of the skull traversed by the bullet. This is odd, because the photos initially released showed the impact hole on the right, rear side as being small, and concealed by hair. I haven’t looked for those first releases recently, but I do wonder how that came about?
Much like the Bldg 7 photographs, I suspect. In 2018, any video or still photograph you might desire is easily created, while retaining the “irrefutable identifiers” called out by “experts”,
The information about the Liberty sending signals in intervals between jamming was in the book Attack on the USS Liberty.
This is all very interesting, but I’m surprised no one ever brings up Puerto Rican nationalists. They were the #1 domestic terror threat in 1963. They were highly pissed at JFK for reneging on his anti-colonial rhetoric and continued use of Vieques Island for ordnance testing.
It’s not like Puerto Ricans were newcomers to the assassination game. They tried to get Truman in 1950 and much of Congress in 1954. And many had served in the armed forces, meaning they were good shots.
Epic!
While we’re on the topic of nefarious conspiracies to kill a U.S. President for the sake of promulgating various policy objectives that were not being pursued theretofore, I was curious how many readers of this thread have considered the following “Plan-A” objective embedded inside the larger 9/11 operation, for which planning obviously began more than a year before finally being executed. For instance, do people really believe it was just a coincidence that the film Pearl Harbor, over three hours long, just happened to be the blockbuster hit at the theaters earlier that summer, conveniently entrenching the often recited “New Pearl Harbor” meme into the minds of millions?
Since a common expectation during the time of the earlier planning stages of the operation was that Al Gore would be the new President, beginning in 2001, getting rid of him in the context of dynamiting the three World Trade towers in Manhattan could have subsequently been presented in the media almost as incidental, within the scope of thousands killed, though nonetheless highly unfortunate and grave. Joe Lieberman, an orthodox Jew, would then have succeeded Gore and would subsequently have surely pursued military wars on behalf of Israel far more vigorously, among other things.
Perhaps Gore should consider himself lucky that he lost the 2000 election. Instead, on that fateful day we got to see the following scenario, during which the Secret Service exposed that they somehow knew that George W. Bush was not a target of the big attack operation, as it was still unfolding; otherwise, had it been a surprise to them, they would have immediately taken him away, out of the classroom to an undisclosed location.
Bush & Kids – Six Minute Video Without Narration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTDixBG5qF4
Lest somebody think the choice of the children’s book (The Pet Goat, 1995) being recited in a well rehearsed cadence that morning was purely coincidental, take note that while attending Yale as an undergraduate, Bush, like a few previous American presidents, was a member of the Delta Kappa Epsilon (ΔKE) fraternity, for which a controversial initiation rite is to sexually copulate with a goat, a theme even alluded to as a double entendre in at least two of the published fraternity songs, and a practice that has repeatedly gotten this fraternity into trouble over the years. Since Bush himself was likely “out of the loop” about what was happening, event planners may have wanted to subtly remind him that, if he didn’t play along with The Script, their cohorts in the media could easily make a very big issue of him having drunkenly played out the role of the Greek God Pan in his youthful college years, as shown in a famous sculpture at the archaeological museum in Naples.
It wouldn’t be a bad idea if the term coincidence theorist were to become more widely used.
While commenting at the Part I I had similar thoughts concerning the 9/11 as you. The preponderance of mutually contradictory technical theories of JFK assassination completely detracted anybody from looking at the qui bono which inevitably would lead to Israel. It occurred to me that 9/11 may share a similar fate. This thought was very depressing. Relatively recently we have learned about the term of the ‘cognitive infiltration’ from Cass Sustain. It seems clear to me that exactly this cognitive infiltrations were successfully carried out in the case of JFK truthers.
LBJ had a crew of Texas Oil magnates and John Birch Society types in place and ready to help. They even posted a ‘Wanted for Treason’ poster the day Kennedy arrived:
If this is to be believed, the Birch society was in bed with the Zio crew, which might be believable, because the crusade against Russia was mostly utilizing the bitterness of the Trotskyites against Stalin’s siezure of the Russian state, and thus a natural alliance between the Zio and Birch groups:
http://www.dcdave.com/article4/050308.htm
Details on the Hunt crew:
https://stevenhager420.wordpress.com/2013/11/27/h-l-hunt-is-a-key-to-the-jfk-assassination/
And, of course, LBJ was an admitted murder, and of Catholics:
Did you read Lifton’s book? He claimed that sometime between landing in Washington and the arrival of the corpse in the autopsy room; the conspirators has a Dr standing by.
The Dr dug big holes in the wounds. The Drs who did the autopsy were fooled by the wounds dug in a corpse that had been dead several hours.
Apparently the navy Drs who did the autopsy didn’t realize that bodies don’t bleed after death.
If all the JFK killing books I’ve read, Leftin’s is the most ludicrous and unlikely.
And like so many idiots, he seems to think endless speculation about the wounds would prove who did the killing and why.
Start an investigation by asking who benefits. Insurance & arson investigators are experts at this. Police detectives start with an open mind.
Insurance investigators start out assuming that the beneficiary set the fire, committed the burglary car theft himself or killed the insured business partner or spouse.
As I see it, none of the authors of the books I read are investigators or even bothered to learn a bit about investigations before they decided that CIA FBI Dallas PD secret service did it.
Rib was right that almost all the books were written by leftist liberals seeking to prove that the lefts bete noir, law enforcement was responsible.
Remember that by the time Rush to Judgemetn and other leftist propaganda was written the blacks were rioting. , The Jewish left led the black rioters. The Jewish press defended the black rioters and castigated and blamed the the police.
It was no different from the recent Ferguson Mo riots after the vicious thug Michael Brown was shot as he attacked a police officer.
The left has always hated the police because the police are the only defense against the criminal blacks who target Whites.
The left has been attacking the police since the 1920s. That’s why the left myth makers attacked Dallas PD. That’s why the left will
always attack the police who control the criminal underclass tools of the left.
Nobody in this comment section (or the article itself) mentioned anything about the ARRB so this is not a well informed audience or author.
The key to unraveling this mystery was the ARRBs ability to nullify the military s non-disclosure statements that all autopsy participants were forced to sign. Once that was accomplished Robinson and Reed were able to talk about the illegal PRE-AUTOPSY surgery that they saw Humes performing on the president to remove trajectory evidence.
“Inside the ARRB” by Doug Horne (five volumes). Horne was a member of the ARRB. Read the book(s) and you will know what happened.
Remember these names. Robinson and Reed. If we had an honest MSM they would be among the most famous names in America.
Every time I see that Zapruder film I am reminded by the Kinks song “Give the people what they want”:
Both Kennedy assassinations were also a massive psyop, and they remain so today. All the talk shows, all the movies, all the images flashing on screen, all the background music. But the scandal, is always used to push the sexualize and destroy the family agenda. Kennedy publicly had so many lovers, including Maralyn Monroe, another psyop herself.
It is the same with Clinton’s famous cigar. This obsession with perverse sex is a very strong indicator of where the scandal is emanating. All the dogs not barking that point to this place are evidence too.
I agree with you completely. Great minds think alike.
I was in my late teens when it happened and virtually every magazine and newspaper article and book written for the next 30 years was written from a left liberal propaganda point of view.
Much of it was the shock that the only suspect was a left liberal who had defected to the left heaven, Soviet Russia.
2 days later a man with an obvious Jewish name shot the only suspect. And this Jew was not a poor but honest small businessman, attorney crusading for social justice or refugee from anti Semitic Poland.
He was a pimp and sleazy strip club operator.
The left spent 30 years spouting ever more fantastic theories.
JFK wanted to rein in the Fed and their dog on a leash, the CIA
who benefited?
would the Six Day War even have been waged, (which was catastrophic to the Arab nations in the region, and hugely beneficial to Israel)?
Who had the power to drag the United States into WWI, [see Declaration, Balfour]
Who had the power to drag the United States into WWII?
Who had the power to cover up the USS Liberty event?
Who today, has the power to perpetrate a crime so monstrous as 9/11, and then cover it all up?
Personally I don’t know who ultimately was responsible, but if we ask Cui Bono?
if we ask who had the means and the will to do so…
Especially when you consider JFK’s threat to the Fed. The Eye of Sauron for Zionist power.
There is no proof that Thane Cesar or anyone else in the kitchen when RFK was shot was a CIA assassine.
You may think so, but thinking and accusing doesn’t make it so.
What about the ridiculous claim that the expressions on the faces of the police officers around Oswald when Ruby shot him prove they were co conspirators.?
Iris even claimed that officer Levealle wore a white suit so as to signal Ruby from a window in police headquarters.
I don’t buy Johnson as the mastermind because I don’t believe things were as dire as RU depicts if he is dropped from the dem ticket. Big deal, he is doing pretty darn well as a corrupt Texas politician which I would assume he would continue to be. He would still be a power broker in Texas politics with his mob and oil connections. What is obviously true is he would certainly help cover the tracks of the killers which he surely did.
James Angleton was suspected of leaking information identifying an agent the CIA had in the KGB, because Angleton had become convinced it was a KGB triple cross. DCI James Schlesinger recalled that listening to him was “like looking at an Impressionist painting”. Angleton was regarded as having lost his mind by many subordinates, would anyone have obeyed an order from him to kill Kennedy?
Ben Johnson the character actor in John Wayne films was worth over a 100 million by the end of his life. LBJ declined to run for office again, if he had anything to hide he would have tried to remain president so as to control the situation and continue to reward all the people who would presumably expect to be rewarded for clipping JFK or helping cover it up.
I really doubt that anyone, even the US vice president or director of the CIA has the authority to order anything like a political assassination of a sitting President .
How would the people at the bottom know that their order actually came from the top of the CIA or even the VP? How would they know that the person who told them was not a KGB double agent (even directors of the CIA have been suspected by colleagues of being Soviet agents) or someone working for some cluiqe) or out of their own unfathomable motive, or madness. If they obeyed such order they would know too much to be left alive, as secret agents would instantly realise. They would certainly want assurances of being protected for ever after, but how could they believe them?
If it was CIA, it was someone lower down than a head of department (like Bill Harvey) and someone in command of a tight little team trained for assassination (like Harvey’s operation Mongoose teams) and someone with a personal motive, like Harvey after he was sacked for not accepting there would be no invasion to depose Castro.
Puerto Rican revolutionaries were never accused because like the blacks, PR revolutionaries were beloved by the left liberals eager to accuse the Dallas PD and the FBI.
Oh.
I mean………
Beautiful. Just beautiful.
I am extremely impressed by Ron Unz. I wish he would run for president.
Perhaps. One thing that becomes more clear over time is who benefited. Look closely at those who were put into positions to enable the coverup, people like George Joannides and Richard Helms. Who was promoted?
The Israel angle is interesting, but Israel doesn’t work for me. My government owes me an explanation. They have a duty to uphold the constitution. They swear an oath to see that the laws are faithfully executed. It is their duty to protect America from All Enemies Foreign and Domestic.
OT, but learnt about this:
http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/italy-bans-freemasons-from-cabinet-minister-positions/
Much better articles in italian or spanish. They basically say that’s because of ‘recent’ events of P2 sect fraud in 1981. More sensible to think they don’t want globalist with hidden loyalties infiltrating a new inexperienced government, but I don’t follow italian developments closely. Any thoughts?
On the bright side, “the axis of the willing” against immigration seems to include this new Italy. https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/axis-merkel-csu-cdu-seehofer-kurz-salvini-asylum-934938
( A geographically Hasburgian axis, almost) Globalist vs nationalist. Now those are identity groups one can identify with.
Since you broached the subject, why didn’t those alleged deep-state operatives who wanted JFK out of office hit him with a sex scandal? Why make him a martyr (and risk being executed) when you can destroy JFK politically and make him a laughing stock?
“JFK’s head actually did move forward before it moved backward, whether or not Rather or anybody else noticed at the time. (This neither negates nor confirms a conspiracy, BTW.)”
The fact that the President’s head first moved forward would very much confirm a conspiracy.
If the agent driving the limousine applied the brakes, the head would go forward first.
Braking amounts at applying a negative acceleration to the car.
The negative acceleration does not however apply to a body inside the car, which will go forward until stopped by its own inertia. (This is a simple application of Newton’s second law of motion).
So the head going forward could indicate the driver was braking to make the President an easier, slower target, which in turn would confirm a conspiracy.
one thing for sure from the zapruder film: jackie wasn’t in on it. her crawling across the trunk – she would’ve worn capris pants for that & not a dress.
Another JFK’s conflict with Israel. JFK was pressuring Ben Gurion to have Palestinian refugees returned to Israel.
Philip Nelson’ s two books on LBJ present a lot of evidence against the man, about the JFK assassination, the attack on the Liberty, and many other matters.
The assassination was a public execution. The people who counted were meant to understand what had happened. The deed was meant to intimidate anyone who might have thought of imitating JFK.
Who or what was KBR?
One of the books I read was published in the late 1990s. All the tramps were young men who had identification. The book traced them. All went on to long term employmentwith employment and tax records. One lived with his sister. The other two had owned homes for years with property tax records to prove it. One was a city building inspector.
Of course the writer may have been lying as part of the coverup by the CIA.
All signs point to Israel, as usual. The USS Liberty and Lavon Affair give them away, if they’re willing to attack an American ship, attempt to murder everyone on board that ship, no doubt they would kill the prez if needed. Just imagine if they had succeeded in sinking Liberty and killing everyone, we would have never known. The Zionists are well known for assassinations and false flags, they threatened Obama with assassination if he stepped out of line, all of this makes them prime suspect in 9/11 as well. Who benefited from 9/11? Certainly not Muslims. Just ask Netanyahu.
It all makes sense once you start looking at Israel/Zionists and their history of lies and murder to get their way.
Why does it still matter today? Just look at what The Lobby is doing to American politics, congress is subservient to AIPAC and the 6 million other Jewish lobbies, wonder why America is going down the drain? Had a real investigation taken place into JFK and RFK assassinations, USS Liberty would have never happened, 9/11 would have been prevented, Libya, Syria, Iraq would have been saved, the thousands of Christians slaughtered, all of the Palestinians murdered and kicked off of their land. All of the young Americans sent to die fighting the “neocons” wars. They’re currently doing their best to provoke real WW3, which not many of us if any will survive. Why does it still matter?
It matters a lot! If you have children, and you want their future to be better than what we have now, not worse, cause it’s gonna get a LOT worse, you better start caring, the Zionists intend to rule the world from Israel, it won’t be a world worth living in. Conspiracy FACT!
Bush ran the CIA, secretly ran Iran-Contra, like knew about and planned an assassination attempt on Reagan in ’81 and “had no plausible thoughts about foreign policy”? LOL, ok, sure
In writing my article, I’d forgotten to mention that in 1946 Zionist groups led by future Israeli prime ministers Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir had apparently planned to assassinate British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin. There’s a link to a 2003 article from the Daily Telegraph:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1430766/Jewish-groups-plotted-to-kill-Bevin.html
Interestingly enough, the British government files also claim that an American Jewish activist named Rabbi Korff planned to organize some sort of aerial terrorist bombing attack against London around the same time. Korff later enjoyed a moment of considerable fame as a very high-profile supporter of President Richard Nixon shortly before his resignation during the Watergate Scandal.
Unfortunately they also swear an oath to protect Israel. Sorry.
Great !—thanks, have not read this before.
“I really doubt that anyone, even the US vice president or director of the CIA has the authority to order anything like a political assassination of a sitting President.”
Authority is not the word you’re looking for. The appropriate term, depending on your point of view, is either absolute sovereignty or impunity. A US Secretary of State formally defined sovereignty in absolute life-and-death terms repudiated two millenia ago by the Germanic tribes of pre-modern Europe. The entire world has negated this viewpoint by acclamation, so the USA’s a throwback.
In universally-acknowledged law, sovereignty is responsibility. But the US government thinks state responsibility is bullshit, and always did do. The US government has been assiduously undermining it ever since WWII. The US fights tooth and nail to make sure its citizens have no recourse to actions of the state, lawful or not.
Congress wrote absolute sovereignty into municipal law in the Central Intelligence Agency Act, various bureaucratic loopholes, and secret confidential legal pretexts. They gave it to CIA. The CIA command structure exercises not authority, but something akin to the divine right of kings, concealed for appearances’ sake as state secrets. So you misunderstand, or misrepresent, the government bureaucracy when you imagine that there’s that someone CIA would be scared to kill. They do what they want. And you do what they tell you to, or else.
Almost certainly what gave the conspirators control over what was said in the U.S. media was Operation Mockingbird. That was (is?) a CIA operation.
Here is a commenter at Mondoweiss who brings up many assassinations linked to Israel.
The thing is, one would have to take into account the obvious presence of Gen. Lansdale amongst them, no insignificant figure he. Somewhat improbable if their presence were benign.
This is the original article:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/284979-ajt.html
Stolypin
Tsar Nicholas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Bogrov
Bogrov, like Oswald, played all sides.
Kennedy killed by same kind of people?
Ron Unz
recently ran for a US Senate seat in Mexifornia.
it did not end well. I suspect
he will not be seeking another elective office and, in any case,
has more important work to do.
I think the “neocons” tried to get their wars started under Clinton with the USS Cole attack October 12 2000, while it was being refueled in Yemen’s Aden harbor, that they also blamed on Al-Qaeda.
Sounds very similar to USS Liberty eh? Same people again, same story….
I guess Clinton refused to go along even after ((((Lewinsky))) sex blackmail, and false flag attack on USS Cole. So they knew they had to get a Republican into office, thats why there was such a fuss about that election, should also tell you where the Supreme Court stands…
9/11, WTC planning, demolition rigging, probably started soon after USS Cole false flag.
It all adds up when you start thinking about it.
and I don’t doubt Johnson played a huge role, he obviously did, I also believe some in CIA played a role as well as in Military/MIC, and probably even Wall St/Banking, Big Oil, that is what makes it a CONSPIRACY!
But I think the head honcho is Israel/Zionist intrests, and their plan of world domination.
JFK – The Speech That Killed Him
I thought JFK was President when Diem was killed?
Oooh, thanks for posting! Very interesting.
Don’t really buy his argument that Oswald’s being a stooge since 1957 was a clear sign that this is an American-dominated plot. The CIA had lots of stooges. Plus, JFK wasn’t a threat to the CIA in 1957.
Nice of Mr. Chamish to say Piper was not an anti-Semite and lacked that kind of bias. Mr. Chamish’s Zionist bias does, inevitably, shine through, though. This sentence, for example:
“But I take the opposite view of Piper: my research says America corrupted Israel and not the other way around.”
Whatever you say, Mr. Chamish!
I agree.
The late Harold Weisberg once told me exactly the same thing: figuring out precisely who was in control of the autopsy at Bethesda Naval Hospital on the evening of 11/22/63 was the key to unraveling the cover-up.
U. S. Military authorities ran that thing and made every single damned decision. (Not RFK or Jacqueline Kennedy.)
Hell, there is credible, provocative and reasonably persuasive evidence the no less a figure than the legendary USAF Chief of Staff Curtis LeMay flew in to Bethesda and was playing a major role in directing the autopsy.
The (suspiciously undated) autopsy report was re-written after Ruby shot “Oswald” on Sunday morning, and the original “draft notes” were burned. The hand-written version was then edited with very significant changes, most infamously the original wording that JFK had a “puncture” wound in his neck – WHICH MEANT A SHOT FROM THE FRONT! – was changed in the typed version as “much smaller”.
These changes were not because Humes, Boswell and Finck demanded them. These changes were done at the behest of military brass, for reasons known only to themselves.
The autopsy was the start of the cover-up, and the autopsy was controlled by the U.S. Military.
By the way, LeMay was the inspiration for the General Buck Turgidson in “Dr. Strangelove”.
Then why kill him Oz? He was bludgeoned to death almost literally on the day of his release. He was the only prisoner in Spandau, and Gorbachev had always wanted to release him. The man had some secrets he took to the grave.
Kellogg, Brown & Root, a Texas based defense contractor that made an enormous amount of money in Viet Nam.
RE: USS LIBERTY
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/uss-liberty/
Entries categorized “USS Liberty”
”It appears that Belfield, an Englishman, has obtained through FOIA the tapes of the in flight conversations among the Israelis concerning the strikes on USS Liberty. I wrote in my post quoted below of having read transcripts in the Spring 0f 1968 that were of exactly the same material. It seems likely that this is the same material now released by NSA. .
pl
”I quote below from my Athenaeum post written in 2010 and entitled “What I know About the USS Liberty.
“What I know about the USS Liberty” re-published from October, 2007
Jim Ennes, who was a watch standing officer on the USS Liberty asked me for a statement as to what I knew of the transcripts of Israeil conversations and the ship. This is what I sent him. I was quoted about this in the Chicago Tribune and Baltimore Sun on Monday. pl
(Wednesday, 19 July 2017) I have re-published this because people have written to me saying that the transcripts were not published before the recent Haaretz article. pl
———————————————
“Dear Jim
I was a student in the Military Intelligence Officer Advanced Course at Ft. Holabird, Maryland (Baltimore) in 1967-1968. The course lasted about ten months. We students were required to take several electives from a group offered and I took a course in Cryptology. This was taught by people from the NSA School at nearby Ft. Meade. This course was taught in the winter or early spring of 1967-1968. There were several sub-courses, one of which had to do with voice intercepts. In the course of this, the instructor introduced a booklet produced at Ft. Meade as material for the course. It contained various course materials. Among them were transcripts of the translated intercepts of radio conversations between the Israeli strike commander and his base before and during the attacks on USS Liberty. The instructor, a retired cryptologic warrant officer or NCO identified the transcript as being of the Liberty incident. It was also so marked in the booklet.
In the transcript, the flight leader spoke to his base to report that he had the ship in view, that it was the same ship that he had been briefed on and that it was clearly marked with the US flag. I think he said that the ship was displaying the US flag on an upper deck, but my memory of that might be inexact. He asked for confirmation of his orders to attack the ship and seemed reluctant (understandably) to attack the ship. He asked more than once and was told to carry out his orders and attack the ship.
There was some further discussion of damage to the ship.
That is all I remember.
Regards
W. Patrick Lang
Colonel (Ret.) US Army”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/printedition/tuesday/chi-liberty_tuesoct02,0,1050179.story
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/the_athenaeum/2007/10/what-i-know-abo.html
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2017/07/httpwwwhaaretzcomus-news1800584.html
The BBC documentary on this is ” Dead in the Water ”……https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOH1XMAwZA
The film by Belfield ”The Day Israel Attacked America”…..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RE4hMlB9ZU
https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2014/10/day-israel-attacked-america-20141028144946266462.html
Extensive Interviews with USS Liberty Survivors’ – Audio tapes obtained by award winning British film maker Richard Belfield prove what every USS Liberty survivor, former Secretary of State Dean Rusk, and former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer have said all along: that Israel deliberately attacked an American ship. The plan was to sink it, blame Egypt, and draw the US into the Six Day War on the Israeli side, but the heroism of the Liberty crew in fighting ship damage, often while wounded, prevented it from sinking with all hands. The tapes are featured in “The Day Israel Attacked America” by film-maker Richard Belfield, whose previous production credits include National Geographic TV and Discovery Channel.”
You can read the audio tapes of some Israeli radio transmissions here…..https://archive.org/stream/CopyOfUSSLibertyCard2/Jerusalem%20Post%20confirms%20Israel%20knew%20USS%20Liberty%20was%20American-7_djvu.txt
One important aspect of Piper’s book is that his overwhelming focus on Israel and the Mossad provides a very helpful corrective to the CIA-centricism that I’ve noticed among so many “conspiracy people,” who seem to believe that the CIA is some sort of all-powerful controlling force.
For example, in Appendix Six, Piper suggests that Mossad may have assassinated former CIA Director William Colby, as well as John Paisley, another former high-ranking CIA official:
http://www.unz.com/book/michael_collins_piper__final-judgment/#appendix-six-retribution
I certainly don’t know enough about these cases to comment, but the NSA is supposedly also a pretty powerful intelligence organization, and lots of NSA people were killed or wounded during the Liberty attack, with absolutely no apparent consequences. And if top CIA people could also occasionally be killed with relative impunity, maybe that organization also isn’t really so all-powerful.
Furthermore, one of Piper’s major arguments is that long-time CIA counter-intelligence chief James Angleton had effectively become a Mossad intelligence asset at least by the 1960s, and he seems to provide a great deal of circumstantial evidence in favor of this notion. Therefore, he points toward Angleton as the likely CIA figure who spearheaded the CIA involvement in the JFK assassination.
One nice thing about my HTML Book software is that it allows full text searches of the books in question, controlled by the little Search icon next to the Email button. Or you can use this link:
http://www.unz.com/book/michael_collins_piper__final-judgment/?search=angleton+and+mossad
Just because Unz may be ‘a self-hating Jew’ does not mean that he is necessarily incorrect. In fact the ‘self-hating’ variety has a far better record of telling the truth, warts and all, than the kosher variety.
“..CIA-centricism that I’ve noticed among so many “conspiracy people,” who seem to believe that the CIA is some sort of all-powerful controlling force.”
The CIA was also the “easy” and “obvious” culprit after 9/11. It came under an incredible amount of criticism from the “courageous” media, and George Tenet, its director at the time, was almost forced to resign.
It turned out later that the CIA had previously warned G. Bush about the increased risks of terror attack, and that their warnings were dismissed by Rumsfeld and the NeoCons, who a contrario were never blamed for anything.
This really shows who is higher up the food chain.
Bludgeoned to death? You mean that the professional murderers of a 93 year old couldn’t stage a hanging properly (but still managed to get it reported as a hanging)?
Are you relying on his son’s version as in
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_R%C3%BCdiger_Hess?wprov=sfla1
His version, according to this, was disproved by reference to the opened archives which had the British supporting release on humanitarian grounds long before Gorbachev could change the Soviet resistance. Anyway, anyone who knows anything about the UK would know that the prospect of Hess making new disclosures of *anything* at 93 in 1987 would have produced a big yawn.
“…Then, who can make a cover-up in media?…”
I agree. That’s really the root of the whole issue. No one had more motive or could have had the ability to cover this up but the Jews. The CIA and the Jews killed Kennedy.
Dallas Morning News, 18 Aug 1978
What was Ruby’s connection to the splinter groups of left-over Cubans in Dallas? Was he selling them guns? Was he hiring them for odd jobs? Did he hear of the crazy violent commie anglo Oswald through his connections to these Cubans?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-jews-for-goats-castro-s-secret-deal-with-israel-1.5475376
https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-our-woman-in-havana-asked-fidel-castro-to-the-synagogue-hanukkah-party/
Was Ricardo Subirana Y Lobo (Ricardo Wolf), a Cuban Jew and supporter of Castro, the bridge between Castro and Mossad? Castro originally offered Wolf the post of Minister of Finance in the communist government, but Wolf preferred to be Ambassador to Israel.
Very sorry, I should have been more careful. Apologies for the error. But my point still stands. The younger Hess was a dutiful son who had been pressing for his father’s release since a long time. Why should Rudolf Hess commit suicide on the day of his release? I believe the precedent Rudiger Hess used was the early release of Albert Speer an actual orchestrator of the Nazi war machine. And yes I agree that anything Hess had to say would have produced a big ‘yawn’, in most people, but there are always others.
The fact that JFK’s head moved forward proves nothing but that his head moved forward.
The fact that Detective Levelle wore a white suit proves nothing but that he wore a white suit.
The fact that the driver braked when he heard shots and screaming proved nothing but that he braked when he heard the shots.
He was president when JFK was killed
Ron Unz’s version in the article above is different from the one you are replying to and the differences cannot be insouciantly ignored if Ron isn’t just in Dan Brown mode.
Ron has Johnson recalling planes launched to protect Liberty from the attackers – which presumably might have been doable with a bit of luck – but, though it isn’t discussed, could presumably have had something to do with the US, at the relevant level, having been assured that the Israelis had been terribly shocked and were dealing with the appalling error. The account you are responding to has Macnamara ordering back nuclear armed planes which obviously had nothing to do with seeing off Israeli fighters and gunboats.
Have you sources to resolve this dilemna?
[Paul Jolliffe]: “The autopsy was the start of the cover-up, and the autopsy was controlled by the U.S. Military.”
Well noted.
Hello Ron, I found your comment about growing up with the belief in the lone gunman official story interesting. I grew up in a communist country which was not part of the USSR block and I grew up with a belief in the official story that CIA was the main culprit in the JFK assassination although without a direct mention of LBJ. I would be interested to learn also what the official story inside the Eastern block was.
Even to this day, I have to admit that this official story was actually very close to the truth. So many years later and even after reading your high quality article I tend to believe that LBJ was heavily involved but at arms length distance, that CIA has done all of the ground work, that Mossad probably assisted and that Oswald did not even shoot let alone kill anyone.
Why is a local belief relevant? Well because whoever killed Kennedy tried to point blame at communists, those of USSR and Cuba. What I was lead to believe in this instance proves the old saying audi alteram partem – do not form any belief before you hear both sides. This applies to practically all strange events of history. Historical, geographical and ideological distance make quite a difference in the beliefs that we grow up with.
Next, the culprits would probably be mirrored in the case of 911, where the Israelis have done most of the ground work, whilst the dual citizens and the US agencies they control played the supporting and enabling role.
Obviously, the logistics of 911 dwarfs the logistics of the Kennedy assassinations, but it would be the same team, different era and with a different emphasis. The acts becoming more self-confident and brazen.
The more “mainstream” account that has been widely reported is that squadrons of U.S. jets were twice dispatched to rescue the Liberty, and then twice recalled based on top-level instructions from D.C.
I’ve sometimes seen another account floating around on the Internet that the Johnson and the Israelis had concocted a plan to have the latter sink the Liberty with all hands, after which Johnson would blame the attack on Egypt and launch a nuclear attack against Cairo in retaliation. Frankly, I find this scenario *extraordinarily* implausible, and until someone provides a credible source, I would just dismiss it. And by a “credible source” I mean something more than some random guy making the claim somewhere in some book.
Someone trying to kill a president is normal. Each of the JFK scenarios is individually improbable. By contrast with the USS Liberty affair the hard evidence is slight.
Ron has left us without the fortification we might hope for from demonstration that there was more than one deliberate shooter and/or that Kennedy was hit by a bullet from the front and/or that RFK wasn’t killed by Sirhan Sirhan’s bullet(s). It’s not that Ruby saying (if he did) that he did it for Israel isn’t an interesting detail (though it might only mean that someone told him he needed to kill Oswald to stop the connection to Israel becoming known- though why Ruby would then say anything about Israel would need explaining). But Ruby doesn’t give us the hard evidence to take us beyond Oswald and some vague Cuban connection.
Kennedy’s ATTEMPT to meddle with Castro was probably the reason-it is documented that he approached key members of the Italian mafia via the CIA to assassinate him because the thinking was that the Italians wanted their interests in Cuba back. The Italians declined.
Kennedy also broke an agreement with the Italian mafia that he would not bother them if they co-opted the unions, Italian-Americans, stuff ballot boxes in order to get Kennedy elected-immediately RFK went after the mafia and in particular the mob bosses he’d KNOWN who helped Kennedy get elected.
Kennedy had also ordered the death of a mob-connected baseball player’s ex-wife actress-Marilyn Monroe. The man himself was corrupt, sleazy, amoral.
Finally, Ruby worked for the Chicago mob and Oswald himself hung around their strip clubs the way that losers with nowhere else to go do.
Americans just cannot face up to the fact that Kennedy was into sleazy deals with Italian mafia with whom his family had been doing business and they killed Kennedy merely for reneging on a backroom promise.
The Kosher Mafia Rubinstein involvement deed, speaks loud and clear , indeed.
Well that article was quite a surprise!
I certainly agree on Johnson. One statement by his mistress tells me he became certain of the hit one day prior. He may have known something was in the works, but on that day he made a very explosive statement about “after tomorrow…”
His job was the cover-up: to remove the body and meddle with the forensics, to wrest a murder investigation that should have been conducted by the district of Dallas out of their hands, and put it into the hands of a bunch of compromised or corrupt political appointees.
As for the Piper thesis: just wow. It is worth a look. Thank you Mr. Unz.
Agents go on record:
• JFK did not order Secret Service off Dallas limousine.
• Kennedy never ordered security stand-down or bubble-top removal.
• Presidential security mysteriously “stripped” and… compromised for fatal motorcade.
• Secret Service ignoring of advance warning of threats documented.
http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html
Tony, get noticed that unusual “Dallas policeman”, who guided them !! Too. Not apprehended them .
All above , just as 9/11, were the Demonstration of the HUGE Powers hold, the deep government have. Thousands , millions of people saw it all .They nevertheless KNOW AND SAW NOTHING. !!
You prompt me to note some thoughts for future development. What precedes revolutions and attempted revolutions? The unifying of a majority of active people (the age distribution has to be significant) by some ideas that power the changes. Thus, when Marx and others provided the ideological fuel the underlying idea was “we are much poorer than we need to be and others are denying us the cure”. Huge rates of reproduction then were part of it.
I wonder what one could find in the Western World today when material comfort is established. Perhaps inequality in America while national wealth is squandered on wars is enough to recreate a dangerous Left???? In Europe the problems would be different though discernible in the concerns about immigration.
LBJ would have played roughly the same role in JFK’s assassination as George Bush played in the 9/11 false flag attack. That is, both would have been informed when the event would occur and issued instructions on how to act and what to say and what not to say etc. Neither man possessed enough intelligence or know-how to play any active role in what (like 9/11) was a professional Mossad operation
“…That what plagues the West & the US the most (race replacement, PC “liberal” ideological muzzle, hedonist emptiness & biological collapse manifested in infertility, pathological altruism, lunatic ideological fashions like n-th wave of feminism, media aggression promoting “diversity” & homosexualism- as different from homosexuality, self-hatred of European & Western culture….”
Well who is the primary promoting this? We know. It’s not difficult. It has been 70,80 maybe a 100 years of this.
“…So, we should not give up hope, and some of us who are obsessed with Jews, should give up this tired old chestnut…”
I agree we should not give up hope but the Jews must go. We need to get rid of them. A simple analogy, if someone is stabbing you in the back you don’t worry about the guy down the street that might stab you later. You first deal with the guy stabbing you in the back. Dealing with the Jews, getting rid of them, is a first step towards renewal. That we may have other problems is immaterial to the problem with the Jews and they are exacerbating all the problems we have.
I would be fine and dandy with the Jews doing whatever they want but as far as I can see it’s impossible to have them in your country without almost civil war level constant destruction. The only way that’s 100% shown to deal with them is to deport them. This has worked every single time. We just need to make sure they never come back this time.
LOL. Nearly every Democratic party presidential candidate ever since has been “imitating JFK.”
Ron, I think you may have a problem getting imaginatively into the minds of most of the people working every day in the MSM despite your acute analysis of reasons why book authors may have shied away from thinking LBJ guilty. They work hard, whether bylined or not, to get their work noticed for their medium’s sales and their own advancement. New news easily scooped is best. So consider how the JFK business strikes them. “OMG not another book on it. I’d better notice it but please don’t make me spend every night for a fortnight devouring the literature up to date including the loonies”. And then they can’t help noticing that people with vastly greater resources actually have followed up on the JFK assassination theories for the History Channel or whatever. (MSM ?)
Let me add the wish that someone would do a proper job on the actuarial mathematics of witness deaths (with judgment exercised as well – actuaries are meant to notice significant facts). If it were true that lots of witnesses were being knocked off it would clearly point more in some directions than others.
Useful thinking expressed with appropriate respect for detail if I may say so.
Lansdale was not one of the 3 tramps.
There are never any consequences for Israel. Not even in the case below where Mossad impersonated CIA agents and faked American passports in order to recruit terrorist to carry out bombings and assassinations in Iran and elsewhere.
The thing is Mossad isnt even particularly skillful, but they are ‘brazen’ because they can always play the Jew card to escape any punishment, at least by the US……and that brazen reliance on going scott free regardless makes them mostly successful. Trump made a statement to the effect that he could shoot someone down in the street and get away with it—the Israelis have the same belief.
And posing as Americans is a habit with Zionist—they posed as US officials in 1948, visiting countries to threaten them with dire US actions against them if they didn’t vote in favor of the partition of Palestine to create Israel. Truman got wind of it when calls from those countries seeking clarification started coming into the WH and State Department but Truman did nothing about it then ether.
A series of CIA memos describes how Israeli Mossad agents posed as American spies to recruit members of the terrorist organization Jundallah to fight their covert war against Iran.
By Mark Perry
| January 13, 2012, 3:13 PM
”Buried deep in the archives of America’s intelligence services are a series of memos, written during the last years of President George W. Bush’s administration, that describe how Israeli Mossad officers recruited operatives belonging to the terrorist group Jundallah by passing themselves off as American agents. According to two U.S. intelligence officials, the Israelis, flush with American dollars and toting U.S. passports, posed as CIA officers in recruiting Jundallah operatives — what is commonly referred to as a “false flag” operation.
The memos, as described by the sources, one of whom has read them and another who is intimately familiar with the case, investigated and debunked reports from 2007 and 2008 accusing the CIA, at the direction of the White House, of covertly supporting Jundallah — a Pakistan-based Sunni extremist organization. Jundallah, according to the U.S. government and published reports, is responsible for assassinating Iranian government officials and killing Iranian women and children.
But while the memos show that the United States had barred even the most incidental contact with Jundallah, according to both intelligence officers, the same was not true for Israel’s Mossad. The memos also detail CIA field reports saying that Israel’s recruiting activities occurred under the nose of U.S. intelligence officers, most notably in London, the capital of one of Israel’s ostensible allies, where Mossad officers posing as CIA operatives met with Jundallah officials.
The officials did not know whether the Israeli program to recruit and use Jundallah is ongoing. Nevertheless, they were stunned by the brazenness of the Mossad’s efforts.
“It’s amazing what the Israelis thought they could get away with,” the intelligence officer said. ”
continued……http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/01/13/false-flag/
Who should count as Jews for your Nuremberg laws?
It took you awhile to get to the Israelis but, you got there. As you said a lot has been written about the JFK assassination but only recently has the Israeli theory been seriously offered. Israel has the motive, the Dimona’s nuclear secret secret, which is reason enough for them to kill Kennedy. However, my money is on the central bankers as the main perps. No one has survived the wrath of the bankers. The list of those who tried goes back to Jesus Christ and, JFK proved no friend of the Fed when he authorized the printing of the silver certificates he was as good as dead. One can make the argument that the London bankers worked closely with hardline Israeil nationalists to get the job done, as Israel has the means and, Johnson. Either way it was the tribes. Now that there is some focus on them as the killer we suddenly see a resurrection of the original misdirection; Chicago’s Sam Giancana and, the Italian mob did it bull shit angle. This was always a dead end. One thing the Italians hate is the limelight. No, it wasn’t them.
When it became clear that RFK had a good chance to win the 68 election it was his turn. But, it wasn’t over, not by a longshot. Senator Kennedy and the Chappaquiddick story hasn’t been written yet and, when Robert Jr’s magazine “George” was about to run investigative articles about his father’s murder his plane took a dive into the Atlantic. Strange how that works. And the beat goes on.
Sound reasoning….
Please take us through the mind of the very cunning and suspicious Johnson as he considers in careful detail how to avoid being implicated. Difficult? He couldn’t be seen to be interfering in e.g. the forensic examinations and post mortems so the extraordinary incompetence or carelessness of many people, as it appears, couldn’t be plausibly blamed on him.
RE: Johnson
My thinking right now is that Johnson may have ‘suspected’ something , may have inferred something from conversations he had with certain people or a light bulb went on in regard to the murder after it happened based on something he had previously heard…..even if he was not outright involved.
I have come to this consideration after reading thru his diary and phone conversations during that time period.
What they reveal:
*Johnson didnt actually want any investigation at all. He wanted it left to the Texas police and AG to declare Oswald the lone shooter. iow he wanted the assassination to be under state of Texas jurisdiction with FBI findings sent to them.
*While Johnson was calling friendly reporters at the NYT and WP seeking their support they told him that the country would demand a ‘bigger investigation.’
*At the same time congress was making noises about a full house investigation into the assassination.
*Johnson called Hoover and told him about congress planning a investigation and said he didnt want that—that it would be , quote–’a three ring circus’. And that it would be better if the FBI just issued a report on it for the public.
*Congress balked at this and then Johnson suggested a compromise….a commission of a few senators and congressmen with ‘outside’ former officials and figures …thus the Warren commission was born.
*Johnson himself picked Dulles and Dulles was his first pick of all the other members. In fact Johnson (or his advisors) picked most if not all of the members of the commission. What he would do is call someone like Gerry Ford after he picked him and say ”what would you think of so and so” and of course no one would have a objection to the person so he would be brought on.
One thing comes thru loud and clear or as loud and clear as swarmy Texas politics allows …..Johnson wanted the assassination event to be over with …..with no big hullaballoo surrounding it.
Because he knew who did it, suspected who did it or didnt care who did it…..one of those three.
Addition to my comment….
When Johnson called Dulles about going on the commission the first thing Johnson said to Dulles was…..”have some unpleasant news for you”.
I guess we have to guess what that meant since he didn’t say why the news was unpleasant before he even recruited Dulles….. but Johnson did go on to say that Dulles ‘had to do this for him.’
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=893
The book is something everybody should see and evaluate. I suspect that it is largely true, and I appreciate Mr. Unz for providing easy access to it. I hope this posting remains easily accessible for a long time, since there is a lot there to digest in the book and, as an old man, I’m not used to accessing booklength stuff in this sort of format.
Yeah, Jake Rubinstein’s alleged sympathy for JFK, a Catholic and second son of Joseph P. Kennedy, who in American hagiography is an ANTI-SEMITE in the league of Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh always left me cold. Some were taken by his blubbery protestations about his undying love for Kennedy, but the criminal classes are full of those who can cry like Vivien Leigh when needed. Otherwise, who would believe them during interrogations? Oswald, whatever his provenance, was silenced – that should be clear as daylight.
You must be Joe King, eh? Evil is as evil does, and the MSM is a functioning propaganda agency [ref Bernays haze] of the CCC = covert criminal cabal ‘lording it up over’ = ruling ‘the West.’ Both the ‘for profit’ and ‘publicly financed’ parts of the MSM are the willing handmaidens of the ‘rot from the top’ – and as such, have stone hearts and s**t for brains.
In other words, mate, the great majority in the MSM are beyond ‘truth seeking.’ Faaar beyond, and right down the gurgler in fact. Any “vastly greater resources” contribution would likely be ‘controlled opposition’ anyway, more for effect than substance. Oh! Only and always IMHO.
A big Q is why do you try to be their apologist? Suggested A; a guess: You actually know one or two ‘higher ups,’ you extend ‘the benefit of the doubt’ to them and thus refuse to see the wood for the trees.
Next Q: Do you think that any ‘stone hearts and s**t for brains’ could be impressed by such flattery?
True enough, @Tono Bungay, I overstated it. Blush. How about the “backyard photographs” found in the Dallas Police files, which were used to “frame” LHO with the rifle and a copy of Pravda in his hand? Ridiculous. When shown the photos, Oswald said that it wasn’t him in the pictures. It was the simple truth. Or how about the photo of the fake Oswald in Mexico City who unsuccessfully tried to get an “escape” visa that would be used to claim Oswald was fleeing to Cuba after the assassination? There are so many “clinchers.” Some elements of the Dallas Police were deeply involved in the assassination, along with elements of the CIA, and to a lesser degree the FBI. It is not considering these wider involvements that limits the value of Piper’s “Final Judgment.” And yes, @Anon, in the early 70′s when I heard Lifton’s lecture, the view was still widely held that the source of the assassination was among right-wing oil men, like Hunt and the Murchisons. Many early researchers, particularly Jewish ones, honestly believed that they were working to uncover a right-wing plot. This was likely true of Norman Mailer, too. But Jack Ruby was the problem. Would he sacrifice his life to protect right-wing oil men or Italian Catholic mafioso? In Mark Lane’s “Plausible Denial,” (which I should have included among my favorite assassination books) he recounts a public debate with A. L. Wirin at Beverly Hills High School, where Wirin said, “Thank God for Earl Warren. He prevented a pogrom in this country.” Interestingly, the largely Jewish audience booed Wirin’s comment. Nevertheless, I think many were well aware, from the outset, of the implications of Jack Ruby’s murder of Oswald. As Peter Dale Scott stated in “Deep Politics,” Ruby is the key to unlocking the assassination, because his murder of Oswald is the only time the conspirators had to come out of hiding.
So much self-contradiction.
E.g we are to accept that LBJ both kowtowed to Israel and sent in the USS Liberty to show them who’s boss.
Or
That RFK chose an entirely Jewish staff because he thought Israel had shot his brother.
Or the big one:
We are accept that rather than leaking scandals about JFK to supposedly their media to stop what was a potentially minor clamp down against their interests, the Israelis literally risked everything and shot JFK. (Just imagine what would have happened had they been found out – a likely situation if you think about it, also a dire one for them.)
That’s like betting on England winning the World Cup and getting £100,000 if you win but having your head chopped off if you lose.
Only a total lunatic would do it and a total lunatic would be long dead by now.
Nataurally, your commenters take your nonsense to the next level.
Supposedly the former Director of the CIA and President if the US was undone by Israel…
And that is one of the less crazy comments.
Basically, the game here is: anything bad – Jews did it. Anything good – Jews tried to stop. The most amusing arguments come when two lunatics disagree on what is bad and what is good. Naturally, such disagreement is then resolved by which side had fewer Jews.
Has all human politics always been like this? If there is something an SJW dislikes, they’ll find a way to blame normal white people. If they’re fat they’ll even blame a normal white person on the basis of that person looking at them (straight, white male gaze.)
Or is this stuff new?
Here’s a test to take to see if you’ve lost the plot. Make a list of 10 really bad things from around the world and throughout History. Then work out if you end up blaming the same people for all of them. If you do, you’ve lost your mind.
As for whether LBJ did it, is being Veep that bad? The TV shows says yes, but risking your huge wealth to murder your sort of friend seems a bit much. I don’t know LBJ, but he’d have to be a total psycho to do it. Tinpot dictators get murdered by their number 2s because their number 2s are scared of being murdered themselves. They live in a very different culture. American Presidential politics is still not kill or be killed.
Not with(out) respect to Israel, which is the point.
Though maybe that’s not entirely true. Carter’s peace-making efforts likely went unappreciated by Israel, but instead of killing him they just had the media set him up as a clown. I can still remember shabbos goy George Will’s sneering reaction to Carter’s “malaise” speech. In fact, malaise may have been Will’s word. It wasn’t in the speech.
No Jeff, I do not subscribe to the theory that the Italian Mafia in US killed the Kennedies. I agree with Ron that they were one of the groups which hated POTUS, but POTUS is way above their pay grade and the Kennedies would have been the first and the last high level politicians to be knocked off by the Mafia. Highly indiscrete, highly implausible and not the MO.
In all these deliberations, we should not forget that killing Kennedies was a relatively easy task, covering it up was not. In similar proportions for 911. Firstly, only the highest level story creators (Deep State) can successfully feed people the coverup bullshit when it is such obvious bullshit. Secondly, although Deep State is not monolith, it still maintains unity on the big cover ups (them versus us). I find this the most important and the most telling.
The level of cover up is not proportional to the crime, then to the level of those who did the crime. Chickenfeed cannot cover anything up.
CIA & NSA have always had a fierce and sometimes acrimonious rivalry. Some of the gossip around Snowden was that he was a Company plant to take NSA down a notch.
Mr. Unz,
When you have time in your busy life, please read “Best Evidence” by David Lifton and “Crossfire: the Plot that Killed Kennedy” by Jim Marrs. And watch the video series “The Men Who Killed Kennedy.” Then write another aticle.
I remember where I was when the news of JFK’s assassination occurred: walking across the University of Tulsa campus after class, heading to the Student Union. Old friend Richard Johnson called out the news to me as our paths crossed. It was not until the mid-1970s that I heard Lifton speak at SUNY SB. I had not been asleep for 10 years, but had not looked closely at the assassination. My brother had read Mark Lane’s “Rush to Judgment” when it first came out, but my basic reflex was to trust the government–not yet suspecting that it could be capable of dishonesty on such a scale. Lifton’s presentation was the first lift of the curtain. He wouild later publish “Best Evidence.” My first book after the lecture was “They’ve Killed the President,” by Robert Sam Anson. I plunged into the literature and research that was emerging. There have been many milestones in this “dark enlightenment.” I should have mentioned Jim Marrs’s “Crossfire” in my list of good books on the assassination, and the early photo compilations of Robert J. Groden, and, of course, Jim Fetzer’s work. I should also have mentioned the curious study of “DC Dave,” who was looking into the murder of James Forrestal. Forrestal was being threatened for “dragging his feet on the recognition of Israel,” and was “hospitalized” at Bethesda Naval Hospital–probably as much for his protection as treatment for “paranoia.” The evening before his “suicide,” Forrestal was visited by LBJ–whom Forrestal had absolutely no desire to see. The visit left him agitated and upset. I have little doubt that LBJ had made the proverbial “offer Forrestal couldn’t refuse”–very much in Godfather fashion. That night he fell to his death from his hospital room window. LBJ appears to have been the emissary of dark, shadowy forces, not just then, but throughout his career. If Unz’s analysis of the JFK assassination is an example of his views and methods, he is not a “self-hating Jew,” but an honest man tackling the tough, contentious issues of our time in an earnest, straightforward and unblinking fashion. There is no other way out of the darkness. Hats off!
Any ‘minor ponts’ to date have been repeatedly raised by lone nut theorists, desperate to muddy the waters, avoid the glaring evidence that it had to be a conspiracy, primarily to avert attention being focussed on the CIA who, let’s remember, introduced the term ‘conspiracy theorists’ in their document detailing how to combat those who disagreed with the bs the Warren Commission foisted on America.
How on earth would they benefit fromLBJ’s ascendancy to the Presidency, particularly when Kennedy was putting out feelers to Castro and Kruschev, both of whom were distraught upon hearing the news.
to Ron Unz, as a comment to him American Pravda on the whole
I see you ask a potentially genuine question so I shall answer that it is not just “higher ups” that I have known (and families that have owned controlled newspapers and other media) but I have had decades of familiarity with people, including family members, who have worked at all levels from having holiday jobs and being copy boys and girls all the way up. I have had experience of them too when I have been trying to arrange publicity or get a favourable angle accepted and known their bad behaviour as, for example, when a journalist writes a story he has been given by a politician and then goes home before the real, different, version of the story eventuates. Not an apologist at all: just someone who knows a bit about the real human beings involved.
There were two autopsies performed with the 1st done by civilian doctors at Parkland in Dallas, followed by a 2nd autopsy the following day by military doctors at Bethesda, Maryland. Where the results of the 1st autopsy were obviously erased and reversed by the removal or altering of bullet wound entrances & exits etc. The book, Best Evidence does a good job of covering this angle of the conspiracy
The 2nd autopsy may have occurred at a 3rd location prior to FK’s body arriving at Bethesda, MD. With this being indicated by the fact that JFK’s body was photographed leaving Dallas in a civilian type (wooden) coffin, but arrived at Bethesda in a military style (metal) coffin. Meaning that what doctors at Bethesda observed in regards to bullet wound entrances & exits etc would have agreed with what became the official autopsy report, which was totally at odds with results of the original autopsy performed by doctors at Parkland Memorial.
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Evidence-Disguise-Deception-Assassination/dp/0025718703
“trying to unseat a Guatemalan leader on behalf of supposed American national interests”
It was on behalf of United Fruit, aka Chiquita Brands, in which the Dulles brothers were substantial shareholders.
Be careful not to confuse impunity with omnipotence. Impunity is a social assemblage vitiating rule of law. Omnipotence is a purely notional attribute of deities, which no sensible person attributes to any existing bureaucracy. Absent effective rule of law, you don’t have all-powerful control, you have crime that goes unpunished. And often, criminal gang wars. If Mossad contended with other criminal enterprises for control of the levers of power, that does not undercut CIA’s impunity, it highlights it. Mossad has shown you how to get the USA by the short hairs.
But Piper’s Appendix 6 cracks me up. A power grab for the CIA. But it’s not CIA that wants that, it’s… Israel, Huh huhhuh huh huh huh huh hee hee hoo ha ha ha… That power grab happened to follow hard on the heels of the Oklahoma City bombing. In retrospect it presents itself as a classic example of CIA’s strategy for metastatic growth: an attack on the domestic civilian population (look up Andreas Straßmeir) to justify increased repressive capacity (look up the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996.) and c.f. 911/the PATRIOT Act.
As for NSA’s putative power, Snowden’s disclosures, as curated by Suzie Dawson, show that NSA and CIA are in lockstep. Many key NSA employees, from Snowden to Visner, were CIA and NSA both. Whose focal points are they? Who’s interpenetrating whom? [Hint: that's a very rhetorical question.]
Thnx for your respectful – and direct – response, and I can understand your dilemma; one could hardly be invited to garden parties then go about harassing the hired-help to lift their game. Still. As an activist for truth + justice = peace, I feel compelled to beard the lion in his den, whenever I possibly can. In particular, I once trusted the reporting of a publicly funded broadcaster – which had deliberately retailed wicked lies [that was '67, their worst lie was 'brave little David confronting the ugly Arab (these days now add Muslim) monster;' now we know that the Zs were/still are the aggressors.] The MSM’s ‘nominal’ job is reporting facts, they must know the underlying truth, a functioning democracy would depend on such, and so all the worse for their filthy lies. The fact that they had lied in ’67 only became apparent to me much later [WMD lies were one trigger, followed by 9/11 analysis + USS Liberty = definitive, add current topic JFK conspiracy.] Of course, ’67 was only the 1st detected-by-me case, since then we all should know that the corrupt&venal MSM retail much more deliberately constructed to deceive ‘fake news’ than a few harmless truths.
Here’s a partial quote:
“Hell hath no fury …” etc.. rgds
“Carter’s peace-making efforts likely went unappreciated by Israel, but instead of killing him they just had the media set him up as a clown.”
And why didn’t they have the media expose JFK on a sex scandal and set HIM up as a clown?
One of the best ways to cover up a real conspiracy is to promote as many competing theories about conspiracies as possible. Where there’s smoke there’s fire. Where there’s enough smoke, nobody can see the fire.
Also, a conspiracy doesn’t have to involve secret meetings in obscure places. It only requires like minds arriving at some conclusion that benefits the group. Then it’s all about the mechanics of the operation. i.e. what’s possible.
He was. Diem was overthrown on Nov 1, 1963, and he was killed a day or two later. JFK came on TV in an unannounced live broadcast to confess complicity saying: “The CIA exceeded my instructions.”
If you sift carefully through newspapers for early November you will surely find some mention of this.
I think Ron Unz needs no lessons from anyone, he has been able to get things done in business and politics because he is a one man army. Possibly Unz he has had bad experiences delegating tasks a la the principle-agent problem:-
I suspect Ron is temperamentally predisposed to do things himself ; he does heavy lifting to get the ball rolling, putting all his energies into a tremendous personal effort, and then it gathers mass and momentum, and people bandwagon on his idea (and platform). That is the way of the men of action whose energetic determination and elan carries the day. To me it seems odd to think of a Kennedy assassination starting, not with one person’s act of will, but rather an amporphous all encompassing elite international zietgiest initially taking in disparate-interest groupings but filtering down to a tiny cutting edge, which after the event would a predictably disposable one.
Israel was founded in the wake of numerous murders, yes Yitzhak Shamir joined an organisation that attempted to collaborate with Nazi Germany, then made attempts on the life of the Palestine police who killed ‘Yair’, like Tom Wilkin, and British and UN officials, but this was before Israel was a country. It was not equivalent to the intelligence service or political auxiliaries of Israel commissioning the assassination of a friendly foreign state’s president. Eisenhower gave Israel a nuclear reactor and JFK continued all of his predecessors policies.
As the one Israel would turn to, America wanted to keep the Arabs from going to the Soviets but they did. That brought about a reversal of policy on. The election of Kennedy with 80% of the Jewish votes president was followed by the first US supply of arms in 1962 Israel (the state of the art HAWK antiaircraft missile) over the objection of the state department He never would have pressured Israel to give up its nukes program the (inspections were running interference internationally, and when they came proved to be perfunctory) any more than he would have would have withdrawn from Vietnam without victory . He couldn’t if he wanted to be reelected.
In 1967 the Israelis were counting on their tactic of coming in from the sea getting past Egyptian radar, I expect the order to destroy the Liberty was taken thinking it was an enemy ship under a false flag.
Going back in time to before the founding of the Jewish state, there is one aspect of Shamir’s conspiratorial activity that has great relevance; he became leader of the Stern gang by killing the old boss (the reasons are a matter of dispute, some say it was partially because the victim was gay).
In the light of this, lets examine the putative wide ranging JFK conspiracy and what its ranking members might reasonably expect to accrue to them afterwards with a quote from Bostrom’s Superintelligence
Trust is key.
Hence Sam Zell (and Arnon Milchan). As John Wayne’s character says in The Comancheroes, “Words are what men live by, words they say and mean”. An oath is sworn by US government officials of course.
If anyone could have done it, Bill Harvey could. He headed the CIA assassination of leaders resources and had trained teams http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKzrrifle.htm
Might have found out about Oswald’s location and proclivities and used him as a patsy? Most certainly.
“And why didn’t they have the media expose JFK on a sex scandal and set HIM up as a clown?”
Primo: In the 60′s, the mafia (Israel is a mafia state) didn’t have the total control of the media in the USA as she has today.
Secondo: Mafia likes to make an example of. After JFK, no other “American” president did dare to disobey.
No, there was no autopsy in Dallas.
In violation of Texas state law, Secret Service agents hijacked JFK’s body from Parkland before any autopsy could be started.
Please see my earlier comment, which was held up in moderation here for several hours last night until it could be buried, an old newspaper man’s trick:
http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-ii-who-did-it/#comment-2390207
I’ve just come across your sensible points while doing a search for the post where Ruby is supposed to have killed Oswald “for Israel”. Is it not surprising that it doesn’t occur to anyone who is inclined to believe in a conspiracy that Ruby might have done it because he thought he was helping Israel by preventing Oswald blabbing? His motive is quite consistent with a CIA or even Cuban exile group’s conspiracy which Ruby believed was Israel’s.
Many thanks for the link and the video. Col. Prouty was an extraordinary man.
He supposedly said it was for the “Jewish people” and to a Rabbi. At least, that is what was written above.
Considering how much American Jews seem to have loved Kennedy and how ridiculously disproportionately they voted for him, it’s likely that he was mostly just trying to give a decent answer in the context of the conversation and that he meant that Jewish hopes and dreams had been manifested in Kennedy so killing the killer was revenge.
You’re saying, that in killing Kennedy, the CIA had not gone rogue, it was just performing one of its intended functions, namely that of removing unsatisfactory heads of state.
But in the case of the removal of the US head of state, one imagines that bipartisan approval would have been required. For the Democrats, there seems no doubt that LBJ was the man. But who on the Republican side would have given the nod? Richard Nixon, the man defeated by Kennedy, was the de facto head of the Republican Party at the time, so likely it would have been him. That would tie together the CIA, Dealey Plaza, and the Watergate Hotel, the link being E. Howard Hunt: CIA station chief in Mexico City, where the CIA monitored Oswald’s contacts with the Soviet and Cuban embassies; self-confessed assassination “bench warmer” and, with Frank Sturgis, possibly one of three tramps arrested in Dealey Plaza the day of the assassination; and with Frank Sturgis, arrested during the Watergate Hotel break-in, checking, perhaps, to see whether the Dems had evidence of Nixonian complicity in the JFK assassination.
Perhaps Ruby merely had to be motivated by believing he was doing it for Israel.
That explains why, while he was CIA Director, John Deutch was caught going to pornographic web sites by Pentagon investigators and publicly humiliated.
The government does not take orders from the CIA or the FBI. The President controls both. And if necessary he can call out the Army against either or both of them.
Since there has been repeated mention of the medical handling of JFK’ s body and the one or more autopsies, I should mention that the work to read, although it is very long, is Douglas Horne’ s five-volume “Inside the Assassination Records Review Board”. That board, established by Act of Congress with power of subpoena as a reaction to Oliver Stone’s movie, operated in the 1990s and caused the release of a lot of new evidence. Horne, a retired naval officer, was the board’s chief analyst of military records. He took part in interviews of a lot of survivors of the handling of JFK’ s body at Bethesda Naval Hospital.
Probably not the only one, but following his successful operation (conspiratorial viewpoint here), the need for similar people evaporated. The nation went into mourning and the following election was another landslide for landslide Lyndon.
I read Posner’s Case Closed years ago. It convinced me so I put that subject behind me. RU’s recent twin articles have been a pleasant diversion to read, so I checked out Posner’s book from the library. First time around I read the whole thing so that I would have a sense of the whole argument. This time around it is a tedious chore to double check my original impression. I have also been reading the comments and I did dip into Piper’s 30,000 word writing which RU has kindly made available. I’m still agnostic although favoring the lone gunman theory. RU has suggested we look for the cui bono of the event. I suspect a giant logical error here. That Johnson stood to gain and the Israelis as well has no bearing on who done it. Which favors the lone gunman theory. He was the last child of a racketty mother and was erratic up the wazoo. He shot at and missed retired Gen. Walker. His real life employment was episodic. He didn’t like assembling radios in a factory in Kiev any more than any of his other paid employments. He’s like a county music loser song. His employment at the building where the Dallas school books were stored, was advertised for in the jobs section of the paper, and the Quaker good-do’er woman who was do gooding Marina, the baby, and Oswald collaterally, as she told Posner, had pointed the ad out to Oswald. He applied for it and got it. Who knew he had a rifle other than Marina? A thought experiment – what if Oswald took the rifle to shoot one or many people as a statement to reinforce his overall grand aim that the world recognize him? And/or he may have sussed out the likelihood of a cavalcade taking that route where he by chance was working. He apparently was adept at surreptiously transporting a rifle into the building, just as he was adept at clumsy forgering. He may have been a 100% loser wacko but he knew his way around in real life. Maybe he took the rifle in and out of the building more than once.
Trust me they don’t vote on conspiracies. The deep state are fully bi-partisan or more accurately non partisan. Nixon was taken out by the same deep state for the same reasons. He was not loyal to the CIA and wanted it reigned in. JFK was first, Agnew was taken out second because Jews did not want him and then Nixon. Ford of course was the guy they wanted from the Warren commission.
My suspicion is that 1, he never took the rifle to the building because not just one, but multiple people would have seen him ,and 2 the person who stated he did see him with it was probably lying to help set him up.
Your affectation of dewy innocence is undeniably charming.
https://whowhatwhy.org/2011/12/13/the-military-and-those-strange-threats-to-obama/
Deutsch, Petraeus, McCone, Turner – hood ornaments. Dulles, The Safari Club, Bush, Gates, Cheney, Haspel – the real thing. You are apt to think dumb things when you look at the solid lines on the org chart and not the dotted ones. Have you ever been cleared for collateral of any sort? You are so sure, yet so out of it.
Treason in America is defined as levying war against the United States and or aiding the enemy in time of war.
Furthermore, no person can be convicted of treason unless there is testimony of 2 witnesses to the same overt act or confession in open court.
His defection wasn’t in time of war and there were no witnesses or evidence of any overt act when he was in Russia.
You can blather on and on about what you think treason is and what you think he may have told the Russians about our radar systems or the U 2 flights but it’s just speculation on your part.
We have a confession from James Files and a lot of other evidence that gives us a picture of what really happened. The exact details will be ambiguous simply because it is a conspiracy. You will get conflicting testimony from different participants. The ambiguity is intentional. It was engineered into the plot, designed to be ambiguous.
The main point is that the government still denies what most people find to be an obvious truth. This make them incompetent at best or, more likely, accessories to treason.
Why do we continue to tolerate clear lies and deceits by our government? Pretty much every column by Paul Craig Roberts these days is detailing blatant deception and crimes by our government and media.
As an aside, if the Israelis were involved, they were likely just another faction.
Impoverishment and depredation of the productive class appears to not be a reason.
Generally, acquisition of power and wealth by some sizeable minority having an opposing political or religious philosophy tends to be operative.
LOL. You mean, you have some question as to the actuarial reasoning behind why, f’rinstance, 28 people who were in or around Dealey Plaza later died?
ROFLMAO. Zero correlation can be found. The population of such “statistic” cannot be quantified. It’s bullshit.
You must mean Frazier who gave Oswald a ride to work that morning and was told by Oswald that the package Oswald carried into the building contained curtain rods.
The entire population of Texas must have been in on it.
I’d guess:
(1) Kennedy’s offenses were more egregious and threatening than Carter’s. Kennedy also spoke about secret collaborations and nefarious deeds, while Carter’s analysis of what ails us largely conformed to the decades-old (and substantially Jewish) academic critique of a nation sunk low in materialism; i.e., relatively harmless stuff.
(2) Time may have been of the essence. Once the nuclear reactor was shut down (or maintained in the face of Kennedy’s public damnation), and the lobby forced to register as a foreign agent, there probably would have been substantial PR problems undoing those actions.
“I suspect a giant logical error here. That Johnson stood to gain and the Israelis as well has no bearing on who done it.”
This is either a truly choice non sequitur, or you are announcing the arrival of the latter sentence with the former. Are you seriously saying that motive is irrelevant in determining who committed a crime?
The man in Spandau indeed was not Hess.
The USA prison doctor wrote a book about it.
The real Hess in all probability died in a flying boat crash in Scotland in 1943 that has never been explained, there was a body to many, probably Hess picked up there from a lake.
Lynn Picknett, Clive Prince and Stephen Prior, ‘Double standards, The Rudolf Hess cover-up’, London 2002
A brother of the British king died in the accident, what the destination of the flying boat was has officially never been explained.
The theory was that the flying boat was on its way to Stockholm to declare peace between GB and Germany, both Hitler and Churchill stepping down.
Of course Churchill not voluntarily.
As the crash could not be admitted a phoney Hess had to be introduced at the Neurenberg show.
This Hess had memory problems.
Had he been able to speak freely, official WWII history would have to be rewritten.
The great thing about truth is consistency, our prince Bernard dined with the mentioned brother the evening before the crash.
The above is consistent with the letter that Bernard is said to have written to Hitler at the time, asking to be made regent or so of the Netherlands.
Who the Spandau man was, and why he played the game, nobody knows.
The USA doctor writes ‘when I said to him ‘you’re not Hess’ he shitted’.
I did not read this book.
Of course not, he’s walking by from the opposite direction apparently making sure all is well. Are you familiar with the photo I refer to? Go to http://www.prouty.org.
The Watergate break in was 9 years after Kennedy was murdered. 9/11 was 38 years later.
LOL. A sure give away that you don’t have a scrap of relevant knowledge.
Who’s them?? Killing a president is not included in the definition of treason.
Carter and his CIA director Turner fired more than 800 CIA workers from the operations division, yet no CIA agents tried to kill Carter or Turner.
Firing most of the operations was a concrete, actual thing that destroyed the operations division for years
So why didn’t the CIA kill Turner and Carter in the midst of the firings?
Kennedy just fired Dulles and made a threat.
That’s a perfectly valid argument, but I actually think it generally supports my own analysis.
There were certainly lots of powerful factions that hated JFK and wanted him out of office. Anti-Communist Cold War hardliners, CIA people, the mafia, Hoover, right-wing Texas oilmen, and a very long list of others. But I don’t think any of these groups were particularly time-sensitive, so they could have just waited until shortly before the 1964 election and began dumping a huge amount of scandalous material into the media to try to ensure JFK’s defeat. I really think that’s what someone like Dulles would have normally have done.
However, there were two major exceptions. At the time of the assassination, LBJ was just weeks or even days away from being destroyed politically as the media with Kennedy encouragement was about to expose all of his gigantic corruption scandals, and not long afterward he might have been on trial, facing a long prison sentence. Also, once his political power was broken, maybe some of the fearful witnesses to his alleged several past Texas murders would have come forward, placing him at even greater legal risk. Johnson couldn’t wait.
Meanwhile, Israel was under enormous pressure by JFK to abandon its nuclear weapons program or risk a full cut-off of aid. And the nascent Israel Lobby in the U.S. was also close to being forced to register as foreign agents and effectively shut down. Israel couldn’t wait a year either.
All the various anti-JFK groups that are the overwhelming focus of conspiracy people didn’t really have much reason to take such an immediate risk, but Johnson and Israel did.
It’s not necessary for a prosecutor to bring up motive in the charges or in the trial. Judges frown on prosecutors emphasizing possible motive instead of concrete evidence.
There were at least 10 entities who allegedly benefited from the murder according to the Kennedy Killing industry and hobbyists.
To file charges that wouldn’t be dismissed at the prima facie hearing, a prosecutor would have to prove at the proms facie hearing that he had believable and proveable evidence that the defendant did kill Kennedy.
It’s obvious there are no investigators or anyone working in the legal field on this thread.
I honestly wonder why the Jews objected so much to AIPAC registering as agents of a foreign government.
It is an agent of a foreign government.
Why pretend it isn’t?
AIPAC got rid of one of our most prestigious foreign policy Senators, Fulbright because he wanted AIPAC to register as a foreign power.
I absolutely agree with you Ron. If Johnson didn’t do it. Israel would have to avoid Kennedy revealing its nuclear weapons and withdrawing the aid that allowed Israel to exist.
Henry VIII’s personality, not divine right, was the decisive factor in his ability to impose his authority over all institutions of the country and remake them most fundamentally . The leader of a country always has the real power if he chooses to use it. Trump does, and the CIA can do nothing.
Nixon’s greatest mistake was resonding to Hoover’s failure to come up with evidence that anti Vietnam war sentiment was a communist plot by getting CIA incompetents like Hunt to work on gathering evidence on the leaks. Hunt was experienced at writing spy novels, not burglary ( Hell’s Angels would have been more professional) How anyone could think Hunt would be left alive, and used on a covert operation after participating in an assassination is beyond me. The CIA were and are full of liberals like Angleton’s henchman Cord Meyer the world government enthusiast. With the possible exception of Bill Harvey, they didn’t have the guts* for assassinating the president then, and they still don’t.
Torrey is a proponent of the bug theory of schizophrenia. The gene most implicated in schizophrenia is one that amps up the inflammatory response, so he is at least half right.
*Your gut bacteria own and manipulate you, altering your behaviour for their own benefit. That is even more true of your immune system.
Evolution in action. One thing leads to another. Positive feedback in the form of self help organizations which have learned to manipulate others is beneficial for the group. Likewise negative feedback in the form of being able to stifle any and all criticism is a net positive for the group.
Darwin observed and wrote about a very narrow part of one feedback loop.
Loops are everywhere, in everything, both positive and negative, and sometimes observable from the outside but difficult from the inside. And those loops make up evolution of everything.
Eventually, even evolution reaches it’s natural end, and the evolving system is replaced with a new system. Birth, growth, maturation, replacement production, decay, death.
Almost like life itself. Cycles of evolution.
But the risks of killing the president is SO HUGE that I can’t imagine there being a conspiracy to kill him. To bring him down, yes. That happens all the time. But to KILL him?
Israel would risk that? And was it a rogue Mossad operation or was it ordered from the very top? I can’t imagine the leaders of Israel telling their agents to kill the US president. It sounds too crazy.
It’s one thing to assassinate some Palestinians or lower officials here and there. But the president of the US?
Also, if word gets out, there’s a good chance someone will squeal.
Imagine if Pence wanted to kill Trump. He would have to contact some people. We know the Deep State hates Trump and wants him gone. But if Pence approaches people and says, ‘psst, psst, lets kill Trump’, how can he be sure if they will nod and go along. There is a good chance that even the anti-Trump Deep State will sound the alarm and stop the plot.
There’s too much risk involved. Too much chance that SOMEONE will get the wind of it and squeal.
So, if there was a conspiracy involving Johnson, it must have a totally rogue operation carried out by henchmen Johnson totally trusted and knew for a long long time.
As for the Jews, they have the biggest (character)assassination machine called the media. Just by spilling the beans on certain politicians, Jewish power can ruin them for good. No need to kill them.
But maybe that is now. Back in the 60s, maybe Jewish media power wasn’t as overwhelming and maybe the nation wasn’t PC for Jews to destroy just about any politician. After all, George Wallace was a major candidate in the late 60s. So, maybe they had to resort to tougher means.
NAVY DOCTOR: BULLET FOUND IN JFK’S LIMOUSINE, AND NEVER REPORTED
https://whowhatwhy.org/2017/10/06/navy-doctor-bullet-found-jfks-limousine-never-reported/
All it would have taken is one news story to get it started.
Jimmy Carter “dared to disobey.” And why didn’t Israel assassinate Eisenhower? In the 1956 Suez crisis he displeased Israel considerably.
You have to understand the times. Kennedy failed in taking a firm line with the Commies, in Cuba over the missiles, in Cuba over the Bay of Pigs and in Vietnam, where he planned to pull the troops out after the ’64 election. This was treason, and the penalty for treason is death.
Why the US Government Killed John F. Kennedy
Thank you for the reply, but I stand by my argument. Destroying JFK politically and morally by a sex scandal would have been easier and safer than a complex murder plot with numerous players.
Speaking of LBJ, JFK was compromised through involvement with a woman from Bobby Baker’s Quorum club. See Ben Bradlee’s book, “Conversations with Kennedy,” pages 227-228. On November 5, 1963, a little over two weeks from the assassination, Kennedy was giving Bradlee some disinformation. He anticipated trouble from the Ellen Rometsch Affair, the woman from Bobby Baker’s stable.
A perfect way for the Deep State (and Israel) to totally destroy JFK had they desired to do so.
Doesn’t matter.
Most of the time.
Most of the time, for the proles. Keeps things simple.
Good luck.
That probably is the way they thought, that JFK was committing treason. But that was their paranoid Cold War thinking speaking. They couldn’t imagine that someone like JFK could in good faith want to end the Cold War. They were wrong. They were the ones that administered a critical — and probably in the end fatal — blow to the American system. They — at least the Americans among them — were the ones who committed treason.
The route of the motorcade was announced Wednesday the 20th of November. The workers at the TSBD knew the motorcade would go right by the building.
The next day, Oswald went to the Paine home and stayed the night. The morning of Friday 11/22 Oswald brought a package he claimed were curtain rods out of the Paine home and into the TSBD.
Oswald owned a Mannlicher Carcano rifle. A Mannlicher Carcano was found by a window on the sixth floor of the TSBD. Workers looking out the 5th floor window directly under the window where the rifle was found heard shots, felt the vibration, and saw dust fall from the ceiling ducts.
When the police searched the Paine home and garage Oswald’s rifle was not found.
Those are verifiable, indisputable facts.
All else is just fantasy, speculation and ignorant hero worship of Kennedy.
Most of the time.
Not always. Russia (Communists in), Soviet Union (Communists out).
So, I’d change the second into
and, would add “a crisis in society”.
When crisis happens the power is likely to be taken over by the best organized group.
As for the West, the only crisis I can think of is the economy.
Or, there won’t be any change, let alone a revolution, while an average person has enough breads and circuses.
Now, defining that “enough” could be a tricky manner. Greed is universal.
You may be right. But I was in college when Kennedy was President. The entire media was in love with Kennedy. His fathers PR machine was still going strong for years after his death.
The media worship was worse than Obama’s Kennedy supposedly got a 15 year old baby sitter pregnant and arranged a then illegal abortion when he was a senator. That and his other sex scandals were completely covered up.
The Kennedy PR machine didn’t start when Kennedy ran for Congress. Joe, Rose his wife, Arthur Krock, magazine editors, especially women’s magazine editors carefully nurtured the Kennedy PR machine for 30 years before he was elected president
The Kennedys owned the media. The sex scandals would not have been revealed.
Kennedy was only kept alive by through medication to keep his Addison’s disease under control. That too was completely covered up. He had been in and out of hospitals all his sickly life and that was covered up as childhood diseases and a bad back from a navy injury.
Like Obama, Kennedy was a media creation. Unlike Obama, Kennedy was beneficial or at least did no harm.
Look up the definition of treason according to the US code. Killing the president is nurder, not treason.
Just type “definition of treason” into any search engine.
Here is a video about the autopsy and the skull fragments (***Warning: GRAPHIC***):
Here is one on the bullet trajectory that hit (JKF and Connally) and its most likely origin (and another “coincidence” involving the whereabouts of Jack[ob] Ruby[enstein]):
Kennedy was thinking of
1 redcuing the power prestige fianning and machinations of CIA
2 He was palnning to restore noninterventionist attitude to Cuba
3 He was thinking of esatblishing better relation with Soviet
4 He was planning to get rid of fiat money and redcue Fed Res power
5 He was planning to dismantle nuclear ambition of israel
6 He was thinking of giving Palestine a betetr deal
7 He was not interested in escalating Vietnam
- So many forces combined and collided together against him.
SEx scandal may or mayn’t have damaged him That was different time and he was not gay.
I knew the Israelis killed Forrestal but I didn’t know LBJ visited him the night before.
Good points. To be clear, I’m running with the Israel as prime mover thesis right now, so what you say undercuts the case against the chief competitor, the CIA. I do think elements of the CIA were involved, and Bill Harvey might have gotten the three shooters from the European mafia, as Talbott argues.
Watch Secrect Service agent Clint Hill’s (left-hand side of JFK’s detail) prepostorous explaination of Secret Serivce Don Lawton’s (right-hand side of JFK’s detail) series of shrugs in reaction to Emory Roberts’ stand down order(from @14:00-14:59):
“Ok,.. you guys I’m going to lunch … have a good trip”
I never noticed the absence of motive in the court rooms of the Virginia jurisdictions where I practiced criminal law. Judges may not be so interested in it, having seen thousands of defendants and knowing that 99.5 percent of them are just terminally stupid and dishonest, but juries certainly are.
Agree.
Was there an explanation for LBJ’s associate’s fingerprint being recovered from the sixth floor of the TSBD?
Israel was too powerful for the Arabs conventionally, and America had Israel’s back anyway. The nukes were just to threaten America with in a last resort “If you don’t help us we will need to nuke the Arabs”. America would never let it come to that. Nukes were a luxury, evidence of the special relationship Israel has with the US. America gave Israel a nuclear reactor in 1952 for goodness sake!
I should mention that Vince Palamara’s video (the first of the two videos I’ve linked) should be watched in its entirety (and not just for the Clint Hill interview as some may interpret my original comment) as Vince is the person who has spent the most time researching the Secret Service angle in the JFK assassination.
Killing the President of the United States is an act of war if ever there was one.
If you want to know who them are, take a good look at this headline.
Trump delays release of some JFK files until 2021, bowing to national security concerns
Read it carefully. Someone, some unknown person or persons, forced the President of the United States to bow to their wishes. In our constitutional form of government, who has that power?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-trump-jfk-files-20180426-story.html
If I may explain myself. There are obviously many results that issue from one president replacing another. Some parties will be advantaged, others the reverse. All of the advantages are subsequent to the event. Sure, it’s at least theoretically possible to contrive and execute a plot without getting caught. But doing this massively breaks the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid). The simplest explanation is that the weirdo Oswald did the deed for Oswaldean reasons, for which there is a great deal of evidence, unless it can be demonstrated that he could not have done so. Is there a book that specifically addresses why it was impossible that Oswald was the lone gunman? If there is no clear evidence that Oswald couldn’t have done it, that it seems otiose to detect a conspiracy on the basis of who was advantaged by it happening. Even if so and so was advantaged, that in itself is not evidence that there was a conspiracy of so and so. That is what I was trying to say: that identifying those advantaged does not disprove that Oswald was the lone killer. Which is why I suspect that he was.
“All the various anti-JFK groups that are the overwhelming focus of conspiracy people didn’t really have much reason to take such an immediate risk, but Johnson and Israel did” [225]
(1) What risk? Impunity means nothing happens if you get caught. CIA got caught off the bat, ten different ways, and it’s been 65 years and nothing has happened. Now they have a DCI publicly implicated in systematic and widespread torture constituting crimes against humanity. They could not be more fuck-you-whadda-ya-gonna-do-about-it if they put a thawed-out hitler embryo in that chair.
(2) The notion of murder as a drastic last resort is not consistent with state conduct, which indicates that the coup had a demonstrative signaling function.
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/FalseMystery/ThePainesRoleInHistory.html
As lysias says above, “The assassination was a public execution. The people who counted were meant to understand what had happened. The deed was meant to intimidate anyone who might have thought of imitating JFK.” Now all nominal US heads of state know to stand by for instructions.
That the paraffin test administered to Oswald after his arrest indicated he had not fired a rifle that day seems to me pretty decisive evidence of his innocence.
While each individual candidate for conspiracy scenario is unlikely and it is almost certain that some sort of outlier is involved if there is a conspiracy, whether it is the near paranoid madness of an Angleton or just an extraordinarily insouciant or oblivious attitude to risk (even thrillseeking), nonetheless it is worth considering what the rational risktaker would probably do.
If you were setting up Oswald as sole shooter you would want to make sure he fired shots at the time Kennedy was to be killed. Oswald’s weapon should be one that could do the job but didn’t point to the conspirators, or, preferably, any conspirators. (That checks out).
You want to make sure of the killing so you arrange for more a highly professional killer to shoot as soon as Oswald shoots, using a silencer. That shooter must use indistinguishable ammunition (save inevitably for barrel markings which suggests that some kind of disintegrating bullet would be chosen). The other shooter must also *not* shoot from somewhere that is likely to disclose that there has been shooting from two (let alone three) different positions.
Tbc
the problem with the lone gunmen theory is that you have a single bullet, after passing through JFK, making a 180 degree turn in mid air to cause the wounds on Connoly… not to mention that the Zapurder film documents that the shots were fired in x number of seconds which the bolt action rifle was incapable of producing…. not to mention that all 3 shots hit their mark and finally the kill shot pushed JFK’s back and not forward which it would of done had the shot come from behind… simple physics, no?
Even though I stick with the Oswald-done-it, I am truly amazed at how even the Mass Media in the West have been openly in bed with the Deep State on Russia(and Russia hacking), Libya, Syria, Iran, and so many lies. All brazenly told out in the open.
It’s gotten to the point where I don’t know whom to trust. So many double-standards. And ideologically blinded people just don’t care. They don’t care how many lies are told as long as it serves their narrative or biases.
How does delaying until 2021 help?
Will the US no longer exist after that?
Will all those who might wish for revenge be dead by then?
As to why the deferral unless you assume that there is deadly revealing stuff about the CIA or Israel involvement to be hidden AND that those assessing the material for release know that is a live issue you will look to the typical and properly regular behaviour of bureaucrats at all levels where “better to be safe than sorry” comes readily to the tongue even if it is just a question of saving some elderly widow the pain of what is probably an outrageous slander and it would take days to deal with each such problem – without any possibility of dealing with every one.
Excellent November 2011 interview with Michael Collins Piper (Final Judgment):
More here:
That’s the permission gesture I use with the dogs. I don’t allow them in the kitchen or the dining room when we’re eating. They aren’t allowed to hang around when I’m fixing their food.
They have to sit or lie down at least 5 ft away when I’m fixing their food. When I put the food in the floor for them they aren’t allowed to get up till I make that gesture. Then they can come and eat.
Same gesture to come through a door, get in and out of the car.
For humans, it looks like an ok, we’re finished here go do something else gesture.
Killing the president is defined as murder, not an act of war.
Good thinking. No need to suppose he wasn’t a volatile sentimentalist just because he was a sleazebag with criminal associations.
Yes, can someone spell out the consequences then – and now for that matter – of registering? Also can anyone make comparisons with the activities and any inhibition of the activities of other foreign agents that are registered?
It occurs to me that litigation would have been a usual step to take before assassination. Unless we consider what litigation with what arguments might have been available I can’t see that the registration of foreign agents problem is a part of the JFK assassination mystery. Indeed, U suspect that it is a red herring because the AIPAC solution us probably legally legit. Indeed I guess there would be a good First Amendment case against forcing AIPAC to register *because it is no doubt financed entirely by US Jewish money”. In fact I wonder how the issue even got up to anyone noticed. As Israel itself depended so much on American Jews’ money how can a “foreign agent” even have been needed? Is anyone going to say that a foundation set up to lobby for Mexican interests by Jeb Bush’s wife with her money would have to register as a foreign agent?
Ephesians 6:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
The assassination of President John F. Kennedy was a public sacrifice of the King of Camelot. The forces of darkness intended the rape of the American mind. The executioners utilize public spectacle, shock, and impunity imprinting the America consciousness that forces of evil with power, will, memory, and hubris understand and control the world, its institutions, and people as if we are mere sheep in a slaughter house. We are invited to see and worship evil display cunning, power, and immunity for our submission, acquiescence, and service. It is the choice humanity cannot and does not resist, except a remnant.
The assassination was a psychodrama, a psychological operation preparing the human mind for a bee hive police state, with human community, trust, love, creativity, tradition, and aspirations murdered. Earnest, naive minds are mesmerized by minutia of the spectacle! We stare at the horror of a worldwide concentration camp. It is entertainment and distraction from work, beauty, eternity, and memory of what we could be and were for a few moments in the long ascent of the spirit of human dignity. We live on circus and bread, fear and greed, without hope, mere animals on the farm, not daring to look beyond and behind the details; but the subconscious mind knows, so we live in fear and adoration of torturers and mind rapers. And yet…..the strongest minds dare to see, remember, and live are as a remnant who wait as seed for a new era as HUBRIS brings down this Tower of Babel!
Like 9/11 and other high-level false flags, we’ll never know the full story because most participates simply followed orders and played minor roles, leaving only a few trusted Zionist at the very top of the pyramid being fully aware of all the details. Which explains why so many well-meaning people dismiss obvious conspiracies like 9/11 and the JFK assassination, with the comment that if it had been a conspiracy, then surely someone would have spilled the beans and come forward with the details, without realizing that no single individual in the position to talk knew enough details to spill the beans.
I became convinced of Israel’s central complicity after reading Jeff Gates’s Guilt by Association. I believe Johnson’s Zionist bedmate Mathilde Krim may have been instrumental in animating his pro-Israel sympathies, and in qualifying him for the favor of the Mossad’s services in elevating him to the presidency of the United States.
Rifle, muzzle speed, supersonic crack, custom rounds, ballistics/ballistic tables/zeroing….
….. silencer, subsonic accuracy….ballistics/ballistic table/zeroing
…..suppressor……bullet speed-ballistics/ballistic table/zeroing….
Things like that.
That was the liberal-left take on it, sure. But were the liberal-left right? The world was divided between the Communist block and NATO. If America and Europe had gone Communist it would have meant a bullet in the head not only for the plutocratic elite and their hangers on, but most of the liberal-leftie elite too. In those days, Commies weren’t pussies, they killed people who were of the wrong social class.
In fact, the West only beat the Communists because (a) the had nuclear weapons to deter Soviet aggression and (b) the Soviets were so corrupt and the Chinese under Mao were so crazy that beating them was not difficult. But the perceived danger was a true reflection of reality.
I never said killing the president was treason. I said:
1. Trump may not be president in 2021.
2. Who is to say they won’t delay 10 more years.
3. George Bush the Elder may no longer be with us.
closeup of bullet hole in windshield of JFK’s limousine:
Tell it to the judge.
Once more, look up the definition of treason. Kennedy did not commit treason.
Miles Mathis thinks that JFK and the Kennedy family faked his assassanation for nefarious purposesz
Okay, “group” is acceptable, although it seems likely the group would not be a majority.
Also, “crisis in society”? What social crisis induced the American Revolution? The October Revolution? And the rest? I would concede a social crisis crucial for the French Revolution, but I believe institutional injustice is more frequently operative.
Supplemental link to my previous post:
http://www.jfksouthknollgunman.com/index.php/04-2-bullet-hole/
https://archive.org/details/451DougWeldon20091203
If as Mr. Jolliffe indicated, the cover-up…uh the responsive steps began under the capital M military at Bethesda. That’s pretty massive as a “faction,” indeed a necessary condition.
Well, that’s a rather big/wide topic.
Depends on a lot of variables, would be the best answer.
Not a copout.
What triggered Hutu/Tutsi “event”?
What triggered Balkans “games”?
What I am absolutely positive about is that much smarter people than all of us here, with access to funds and data we can’t dream about, have as a full time job to asses that and recommend a course of action/inaction to the powers that be in any serious country.
So, to get into a serious conversation about what could,say, trigger a crisis and what could happen based on that crisis in Greece would be, I think, quite different from Austria, of Spain, or…etc.
As for USA, well, can’t even begin to contemplate that, seriously.
Having said that I think you are onto something here:
Read a book ages ago, stating that the operative is when a middle class starts believing in institutional injustice. Or, better, when a middle class doesn’t want to play the current role in the current game.
When the middle class wants the game changed.
Something like that.
I left the main reason out because it was in the article. The main reason was ” Time”.
Mafia didn’t have time. Ron just made it crystal clear in his post.
“All it would have taken is one news story to get it started.”…You need time for that and You’re not sure about the results. Kennedy might or might not have lost the next election.
Of course no one can prove that Mossad did it. Nothing that is really important in this life can be proven.
But what a reasonable creature can conclude is that the Mafia (Israel) had the motive and the means.
And the means for cover up…Unless one is naîve or dishonest, one knows who has almost total control of all the branches of power in the USA since, at least, 1945, and total control since 1963.
Can you give me an example where Carter “dared to disobey” ?
Well, one also can say that even Obama “dared to disobey” and they didn’t kill him…
“And why didn’t Israel assassinate Eisenhower?”…
I don’t know but they probably thought about it. Maybe they didn’t have all the resources they needed.
Killing other people is just part of Mafia’s DNA. Who has been killing Iranian’s scientists ?
I believe that is Mossad with help of American and European secret services.
Can I prove it ? No one can.
Again: who has the motive and the means ?
Maybe an interesting question is why did they choose to execute Kennedy instead of, for example using poison ?
I’m not an expert on Mafia, but I believe the main reason was to make of JFK an example.
After JFK, I insist, no other “American” president dared to disobey. They may or may not be stupid, but they all know who is the boss.
Not to mention that the pristine bullet path through Kennedy’s neck is a non-starter from the off. The wound was in the back (probably from a shot from Daltex building) and that bullet hole could only be probed to half a finger length. It did not pass through the body, so, obviously, could not have caused damage to Connally. Ford, self-admittedly, changed the description to read that the shot hit the neck.
As regards the anon clown who keeps bloviating about Oswald bringing a rifle to work. Frazier and his sister were unshakable in their evidence that the package was cupped in his hand and fitted under his armpit. Therefore, too short to be the rifle.
Oswald was in the lunchroom when shots were fired. Two female employees were on the stairs at the time he supposedly ran down these after the shooting and have both categorically declared that no one ran by them.
Someone, forgot who, said to Clinton ‘make the UFO information public’.
Clinton is reported to have answered ‘they’ll kill me’.
Assuming that this is true, who are the ‘they’ ?
A USA admiral, shortly before his death, recorded on video ‘that the technology for providing every houshold with the energy they needed from a device as big as a vacuum cleaner was known, but that it would probably never be used’.
Think about the consequences if oil, gas and coal became worthless overnight.
What to think of this, I’m not sure, but maybe Rosswell provided this technology.
E=MC² still is true, but we do not know how to do it, except by fire etc., nuclear fusion, and nuclear fission.
By these methods a very tiny mass is converted into energy.
It is in his book-length article, “Who Killed James Forrestal.” (http://dcdave.com/article4/021110.html)
Johnson was a Zionist long before he met Krim.
If that is not your opinion as an expert who’s considered opinion as an expert are you relying on and why was that opinion not accepted by the Warren Commission?
What did the Warren Commission and subsequently the House Select Committee say about such evidence?
Excuse me if I find it odd that an anonymous blogger can find the alleged result of an alleged test so conclusive for the purposes of forming his opinion on a vital matter without inquiring what those charged with assessing the evidence made of it and relating the results of his inquiry to back up or qualify his opinion.
To be precise, the autopsy, in Washington Navy Hospital, was controlled by the Navy, and the Navy was heavily under Johnson’s control. Johnson had pushed for the nomination of Texan John Connally as Navy Secretary, then Fred Korth (who was just being forced to resign because of the same corruption scandal which was also threatening LBJ). Oswald, by the way, was also a marine, working for the ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence), not CIA.
That’s a bit too much connected information and thinking for some of those here who know that Zionist Jews have controlled everything that matters since 1945, or maybe 1845. Makes sense.
Rubbish. If someone had been one of the dozens of people involved in rigging up the WTC buildings for demolition they would have had enough information to prove the official version wrong. If someone had been one of the other supposed shooters in Dallas, or just a driver helping their getaway they could have blown the Warren Commission version.
The trouble with that is attributing a strong enough motive for Israel to take the risk of assassinating the popular president of its one indispensable ally. True, you could no doubt find Zionist thugs within Israel’s secret services, and maybe in Cabinet, who would stop at nothing but you’ld have to work hard to see how and why they are going to manage an Oswald centred conspiracy when the majority view amongst their colleagues – and very likely their contacts – is that it would be madness. There would even be the risk of someone unexpected having scruples. True, once it happened, the choice by decent senior people might come down on cover up rather than confession and plea for forgiveness. Imagination offers various scenarios including “Don’t worry: we can produce evidence of a conversation with Johnson which he won’ t want to explain to anyone even if it doesn’t prove foreknowledge and approval by him”.
I can’t see Mossad rogues having a strong enough feeling for the reality of Israel’s nuclear arms situation to do it off their own bat and Cabinet wouldn’t have risked it. The PM wasn’t dominant either.
Killing US presidents is clearly not off everyone’s menu but it is always going to involve serious risktaking and therefore likely to be the work of the unbalanced or fanatically ruthless. I agree with your view that a clique in the CIA would be more likely able and willing to organise it than the Israelis. But the Cuban connection, which apparently RFK suspected, seemed plausible enough in the telling by Bob Baer.
The problem is that none of the scenarios were a priori probable. It matters a great deal that forensic detail be known precisely. What does it say, for example, that conspirators who could rely on Oswald firing identifiable bullets from the Book Depository yet arranged to make sure Kennedy died by firing different weapons from one or more completely different positions and angles?
If you want to compare, you have to compare the two vice-presidents: on 9/11, George W. was neutralized, turned into a dummy, the next thing to a corpse, and Cheney effectively was running the country (as a mercanary for the neocon zionists).
I just did a Google search for “dark enlightenment.” I intended no reference to other books or blogs on the internet. I only meant to image “waking into darkness.” A kind of enlightenment, but not of the “sunlit rationalism” variety.
One of the great things about the Unz Review is that the comments are usually as interesting as the articles. Thanks for the forum! Lots of fun.
With all the details explained different ways, why could not that test be faked by the conspirators? It seems to me that conspiracy buffs are falling down an infinite rabbit’s hole. Posner claims that the first bullet missed and the second and third were about 6 seconds apart.
Wow! I haven’t begun to formulate a scenario in which Mossad and Cuba might have combined forces. I wonder if anyone else has.
I can’t see any bullet holes but I’ve listened to the very long David Weldon interview/exposition and it is hard to mount more than minor quibbles. I wonder if he provides much of Ron’s reasons for believing in more than one shooter?
Mr. Unz,
Many thanks for writing this and helping revive Mike Piper’s legacy. Near the end of his life I had the great pleasure of being able to call him a friend after having been a fan of his for many years.
When I saw part 1 of your essay I was afraid it was going to be another milquetoast discovery that something was up. But today I saw that Mike’s book was featured right above your article on your site so I read part 2 and I am very glad I did. Good for you.
best wishes,
MT
The problem is there is strong evidence the Zapruder film was doctored/frames removed, so making inferences from it is problematic.
You make a good prima facie case for Johnson having the strongest motive but
1. How does your account of everything relevant to do with Johnson check out with the Robert Caro biography which I haven’t read but seems to be highly respected?
2. Where can one read what was about to be unloaded on Johnson in the Kennedy favouring MSM?
3. When and what did Johnson know about that threat to his future?
4. If Johnson had to start the plotting as soon as he was apprised of that threat how could and did he go about it – or should we believe that he was able to take advantage of the happy coincidence of conspirators ready to go who needed to know that he wouldn’t pursue them or indeed allow them to be pursued? (As Attorney-General RFK could clearly have set some investigations and preservations of evidence in train. So it is worth asking what he did even if he were only investigating the Cubans and the mob as Schlesinger’s diaries record him as suspecting. A further thought: RFK may well have become more comprehensive in his suspicion of conspiracy as the successive conspiracy theorists ideas were aired and some of the evidence began to appear in a fresh light or to have been suppressed or corrupted. Could that provide a partial reconciliation with the Bugliosi view that RFK accepted the Warren version?).
I do not subscribe to the mafia theory because the mafia is too disjointed and competing interests. The two criminal groups with the most to gain were Israel and the CIA. Sure some mob figures were used but only to help though.
Carroll Price is correct. You missed the part obviously where she stated “in a position to talk.” If you are one of the shooters of JFK who are you going to talk to where you are not simply killed first?
Besides the people that they trust with that kind of information they are sure of. Those people know they and their whole family will perish if they betray the plot. The rest of the people know very little.
You are forgetting also that JFK was not without a considerable PR machine that could adeptly counter any such attempt. Besides it is not as if such would have guaranteed his removal from office. Can you cite such and example where a president has been removed over a sexual scandal? The other thing you need to remember is whoever would expose such would also be tipping their hand that they wanted him out.
Well, since most of us won’t have the time to read these five volumes, can you summarize what they say or suggest about the present case?
“I don’t know…”
You don’t know much of anything.
“George W. was neutralized, turned into a dummy,”
May I suggest to you that you are wrong ?
George W. Bush wasn’t “neutralized and turned into a dummy”. G.W.Bush wouldn’t never been “elected” president, if those who control the USA weren’t sure that he wasn’t going to do what he was told to do. And one of the qualities the forces who colonized the USA like in their president is ambition and stupidity. GWB had both. He wanted to go further than his father..And he succeeded. He was elected twice and he was a war president, therefore a “great president”.
“Cheney effectively was running the country (as a mercanary for the neocon zionists).”
That is also, IMHO, a mistake. Not all of those serving Zionists are their “mercenary”.
One of the reasons why Zionism is so powerful is because they find in white Anglo-Saxon tradition (well represented by Cheney, Trump, Clintons and other disgusting creatures) the same world-view, same values, same hate of others,Islamophobia, deep racism etc…which makes it easy to co-opt, convince lots of gentiles to work for “the cause”.
One should distinguish between mediocre and ambitious guys like GWB, Tony Blair etc…who are willing to sell their mother, their country, their soul to achieve power, and guys like Trump and Cheney.
Trump and Cheney are really dangerous. They really believe in the cause. They are honorary members of the tribe. They can even marry their daughters into the tribe.
And of course , one should never forget that it’s not only wasp that are compatible with Zionist’s world view.
One of the most important member of Zionist enterprise is, as you know, The House of Saud
What was Joe DiMaggio’s connection to the mob? In his book Michael Collins Piper demonstrates that the Kennedy mob connection was more Jewish than Italian. Meyer Lansky, Mickey Cohen and Jack Ruby and Joe Kennedy had dealings with the Stern Gang. Many Italian Americans admired the Kennedy’s simply because they were Catholic. I can speak for my own family.
Horne’ s five volumes make very clear what a fraud the Bethesda autopsy was, meant above all to conceal the fact that JFK was shot from the front.
Dit it hurt ?
It wasn’t my intention. I thought your “questions” and “doubts” were sincere. I tried to answer them.
When I don’t know something, I have no problem in saying so.
As you know a lot, maybe you can teach me.
Just kidding. No need to reply.
In the view of those who, at the time, accused Kennedy of treason, he had betrayed his country by failing to face up to to the Communist menace. Got it now?
Which means you are not looking objectively…deflection is an Israeli (Israeli-firster) tactic used to perfection my (((Australian))) friend, yet when one REALLY takes a magnifying glass to the major events of at least the past century one can deduce the common denominator in the political tectonic shifts as none other than Israel and its very (Israeli-firster) interests. You and your partners are very busy these days indeed deflecting, but rest assured there are those out there who are wise to said tactics ….
But according to other accounts RFK held LBJ responsible, Kennedy saying to Johnson:
“Why’d you have my brother killed?”
In any case, from the testimony of the experienced doctors and trauma surgeons who attended on the dying president at Parkland Hospital, I accept as established beyond reasonable doubt that the fatal head shot did not come from behind the President’s car, i.e., from the Texas School Book Depository, where Oswald was supposed to have been shooting.
That means, as I have discussed here, that the Warren Commission Report was a cover up. And if the Warren Commission Report was a cover up, then it almost certainly covered up a conspiracy to murder involving the government.
So who in the Government? Obviously, that branch of government responsible for the assassination of heads of state; namely, the CIA. And if the killing was undertaken by the CIA, then it would certainly have required bipartisan political authorization, specifically from LBJ and, on the Republican side, quite likely Richard Nixon.
As I have discussed here, in the political context of the time, this makes perfectly good sense. In the aftermath of the World War, America stood virtually alone against Communism, and Kennedy repeatedly failed to stand firm against that menace. This, in view of many among the elite, amounted to treason. Kennedy had to go.
The only person who accused Kennedy of treason was that John Birch society anti communist Weissmsn who paid for an ad in the Dallas newspapers.
Weiss man was a private citizen and that was his opinion of Kennedy. It wasn’t the view of government agencies.
No, I don’t think so. Why would he stay in the lunchroom when he could watch the President pass by? It makes no sense.
In fact, Oswald told Will Fritz he had lunch “out with Bill Shelley in front.” Indeed, just moments before Kennedy’s motorcade passed, Oswald was spotted standing inside the front door of the TSBD by another TSBD employee.
The most likely scenario that comports with all the known evidence is that Oswald went down to the front of TSBD to eat lunch with Bill Shelley and watch the motorcade. After the President was shot, Oswald went up to the 2nd floor lunchroom to get a coke, where he was confronted by Officer Baker, as witnessed and reported by Roy Truly.
Oswald apparently learned of the passage of the motorcade by the TSBD only on the morning of 11/22 in his conversation with fellow employee James Jarman, who has sworn in an affidavit, and was also questioned by Gerald Ford:
https://www.giljesus.com/evidence-oswald-did-not-know-the-motorcade-route.html
My interpretation of the available evidence is that Oswald was photographed by Altgens standing in the doorway of the TSBD at the time the President was shot in the throat. James Fetzer and others have detected tell-tale signs of sloppy and probaly rushed editing on the Altgens photo, where Billy Lovelady’s face was pasted over Oswald’s.
However, Lovelady was wearing a short-sleeve shirt with bold vertical stripes on 11/22, where Altgen’s photo shows Oswald wearing the same distinctive, mostly unbuttoned, long-sleeve brown tweed shirt he was wearing when arrested at the Texas theater.
Image: Time
If you weren’t there at the time you don’t realize the formidable Kennedy worshipping media machine .
It started about 1955 nationwide when he was a Senator. The Kennedy PR was better and longer lasting than the Obama worshipping media machine.
It doesn’t make sense to me that RFK would wait until he became president to begin an investigation of his brother’s murder.
The Kennedy’s had hundreds of millions of dollars and at least a thousand hard core worshippers of JFK. Kroll security wasn’t founded till 1972. But there were national and international security groups in the 1960s.
It’s just my opinion that if RFK really thought Johnson was responsible for the murder he could have just hired the best to do an investigation.
Or maybe RFK knew it was Castro killing JFK before JFK could kill Castro.
The truth will never come out because more than 2,000 books and hundreds of documentaries promulgated 2,000 different theories over the last 55 years.
Oswald was not charged with, or arrested, for the murder of Kennedy. He was arrested on suspicion of murdering officer Tippett. That’s all.
Arrested on Friday afternoon he would have been brought before a judge on Monday and charged with the murder of Tippett.
Because he had no attorney and refused the services of the Dallas Bar Association to provide him with an attorney; Oswald wasn’t really questioned by the police about either murders.
Oswald just proclaimed I dindu nuffin I am innocent I don’t know why I was arrested during the police questioning Friday and Saturday.
Oswald probably anticipated some kind of grandiose trial in which he represented himself and made endless speeches about the evils of capitalism like the 19 th century Russian revolutionaries did when they were on trail.
Since Oswald was never charged with the Kennedy murder, I fail to understand why the Kennedy hobbyists are so defensive and enamoured of him.
The Oswald defenders are almost as admiring if Oswald as the JFK worshippers are of the Kennedys.
RFK did indeed commission experts to investigate. The experts were French intelligence. The result was the book by “James Hepburn” whose English-language title is “Farewell America,” which for years the F B I prevented from being imported into the U.S.
So I am supposed to believe what someone called “Anon” claims to know about “the view of government agencies,” if the view of government agencies had anything to do with what I said, which it doesn’t.
Just because you are posting as “Anon,” does not exempt you from the obligation to think before you comment, and to read intelligently what you are commenting on.
So why didn’t Oswald carry the package in his hands? Putting packages in the armpit is standard shoplifter technique.
What was in the package? A bible, Book of Mormon? Writings of Mary Baker Eddy?
Frazier testified that the package was long and narrow like a rifle. Frazier also testified that he asked Oswald what was in the package Oswald replied curtain rods.
No curtain rods were found in the TSBD.
Why the admiration for this wife beating unemployable high school drop out grandiose loser?
The Kennedy’s were rich, but not that rich. JFK’s estate was worth $10 million, according to Forbes Magazine, consistent with my recollection that he’d received $3 million from his father. True, a million dollars was real money in those days, but if RFK had as much as his brother, why spend it on a major private investigation when, by winning the Presidency on a sympathy vote, he’d have had control of the FBI, the CIA, military intelligence and every other relevant instrument of government.
That RFK was too dumb to let sleeping dogs lie, and known to be too dumb to let sleeping dogs lie, was surely the reason he was killed.
If, as reported here, JFK, Jr. told the world that the CIA killed his father while he simultaneously prepared for an entry into politics, he also was likely judged too dumb to live.
That both Kennedy aspirants to the Presidency died young, is consistent with the presumption that the assassination of JFK was a Government job, the truth about which is to be withheld from the public indefinitely. And if that is so, it would, as I’ve argued here, have had bipartisan political support.
So the CIA did not go rogue, it was doing the will of the elected political leadership. That the leadership decided on the necessity of removing the Head of State, is not such a bizarre conclusion to reach. Such decisions, have been made time and again throughout history.
G W Bush started out as a benign buffoon and later revealed himself to be a vicious and unscrupulous failure. Particularly, when he sat silent for eight years of ridicule and defamination by Obama and company only to lash out at President Trump. No question he is simple, ungrateful and disloyal. That being said, I Can’t buy the argument that Israel and the big jewish money/media actual wanted him over Gore and Joe Lib. In 2000.
LOOK NO FURTHER than the demand that Dade, Palm Beach and Broward counties be the only ones to be recounted to see where the real Zionist influence was exercised. Consider also that late absentee votes from APO or FPO addresses were not counted but late absentee ballots from Israel were declared valid.
I despise Bush but I voted for him twice, that does not mean that Kerry or Gore would have been an improvement. Reminds me of the unmitigated love campaign for Kennedy amid the trashing of a fictious ” Right Wing Hate Machine” theme when Kennedy was assassinated. IN RETROSPECT, IT is not that Kennedy was so good and pure, He wasn’t. The kicker is that Johnson was so bad and he was able to get away with his destructive programs where as Kennedy would be check mated on similar policies.
Going back to 2000, before the election Pat Buchanan said it best “George Bush won’t fight and Al Gore is in the other side.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lee-harvey-oswald-arrested-accused-killing-jfk-1963-article-1.2431162
“Oswald, dressed in a rumpled brown shirt, open to the waist, was arraigned before Justice of the Peace David Johnson and charged with the murder of Kennedy at 11:26 P.M. (12:26 A.M. New York time.)”
Oswald is informed by a reporter that he has, in fact, been charged with the murder of the president:
You obviously are an expert on the JFK assassination– aside from your not knowing what all of us who watched any of the three national networks on the night of the assassination knew.
Johnson was indeed the obvious beneficary, and suspect. Johnson would seem to have the strongest possible motive to not object and to insist that his acqueiscence in the assasination of JFK was strictly on the undestanding that the assasination must not implicate him to any further extent, and, and not only look at first blush like the work of a lone patsy , but maintain that cover story and conceal the plotters existance despite an investigation of unprecedented intensity. Robert Kennedy at the Justice department had his own investigatory resources (vasty greater that Garrisons) and RFK was personally farmiliar with the personalities in the CIA who were in departments capable of mounting such a very special operation as would be required to fake a lone wolf hit by commie Oswald .
One thing stands out immediately, the assassination was in the home state of LBJ; if he was merely a fellow traveler friendly onlooker of others’ plot he can’t have approved Dallas beforehand, or been very happy with it, given the added weight of suspicion it placed on him. John Connally being wounded took very little sting out the inherent fishiness of Texas, anti-Catholic powerbase of LBJ, being where a sniper put him in the White House.
The conspiracy would not know for certain what Johnson would do if they violated the spirit of caveats he would surely place on his approval in principle for the assasination of JFK. If the plotters assassinated Kenedy in Johnson’s home state, not exactly excupatory of his possible involvment, Johnson’s reaction would be very uncertain at best, unless he was actually in on the operational planning stage and approved the Dallas location. To be a a central figure in the subsequent cover-up, Johnson would have to have done more than equivically think out loud about an accident or illness geting him the into the Oval Office, he would have to have requested a dead pres and taken steps to bring about Kennedy’s death so that the plotters knew he was one of them.
Lyndon Johnson being a homocidal Boss Hogg type with Texas law enforcement in his pocket and gunmen at his disposal would raise the question in the minds of the assasination team’ of their life expectancy after the asassination. Once JBJ was president, the higher reaches of the conspiracy , especially those used to sound out Johnson or otherwise known to him would surely fear their demise had become expedient. However, if Johnson was as ruthless and conected to murders as Stone says, why would he wait to to have it suggested, and why would he need the CIA?
Texas presumably has a police intelligence files and there were private investigators keeping an eye on communists (for Birchites and people like Nelson Bunker hunt). Oswald might well have come to the attention of an assasination team commissioned by Johnson. That would explain why it was done in Dallas where Johnson could keep it tight, the proqutity raised suspicions, but would be the only place he could do it–and with the perfect patsy. A Texas location Johnson-sanctioned assasination with firearms required a patsy and complicated staging. This comment section ids full of people saying the whole thing was obviously faked, but the risk odf a ballistic snafu would be unavoidable for a parochial Johnson hit.
The CIA on the other hand has labs and expert doctors at its disposal. John F. Kennedy did not enjoy robust health and suffered from Addisons disease requiring poewerful hormones He also had meth amphetamine injections from the notorios medic Dr. Feelgood often demanding more than even the good doctor thought advisable (on one ocassion JFK, high as a kite, stripped naked and pranced through the corridors of a hotel while the secret service watched aghast). I think Stone (and Lazenby) is right, LBJ is the best bet for a conspiracy, bearing in mind where and how Kennedy actually was killed . Bill Harvey using ZR/rifle personell are second favourites in my book.
High level CIA involvemt seems much less likely becuase they could have overdosed him and had his his preexisting medical condition (lied about by the Kennedy family and their physicians) and drug use to explain his death. That way (switching bottles in his doctor’s bag) would be less accident prone and require less resources and delay than using rifles in a public event where film cameras were a posibility and trying to pin it all on a patsy.
The timing being not long after Mongoose was cancelled suggests Harvey, it does not particular;y implicate Johnson though because Kennedy needed him to win Texas and be reelected. Whether Kennedy would have held fast with pressure on Israel and its organised Lobby despite that hurting his chances of getting reelected is a moot point, unless you think he was a man who would rather be right than be President.
You are correct on everything but bi-partisan support. This was not party politics. A hit on Kennedy would not have even had democratic support much less bi-partisan support. The fact that LBJ helped cover up does not indicate anything close to democratic party support.
If Oswald was not to be charged with the murder of Kennedy then why are lone nutters everywhere sure he did it?
Whether the CIA killed Kennedy with bipartisan political suport is, obviously, a hypothesis only. No one has provided proof that LBJ gave the CIA the nod on the Kennedy assassination, and no one can prove that Richard Nixon gave any support either, although the Howard Hunt connections with Oswald in Mexico City, with the Dealey Plaza tramps, and the Watergate buglary, provide a reasonable basis for suspicion. In any case, the idea that the CIA is a law unto itself, beyond political control, is itself a hypothesis that I find unconvincing.
Anon(257), the Carcano Modello 91/38 with 21 inch barrel is 40.12 inches in length. With receiver/barrel removed from the stock( the Carcano is NOT a takedown), the longest piece is 34.8 inches( that would be the stock). I am 6’2″ with long arms and placing a yardstick in my armpit(no shirt) I can hold a maximum length of 25 inches to my hand. There is also the width of the buttstock, and the width of the scope and mount and the width of the magazine, a very unwieldy package. In short, Anon(257), you lose.
Hardly a man who would rather be right and a patriot than be President.
THROUGHOUT both threads there have been references to Bill Harvey of the CIA, is there any definitive biography or study about his life and Times?
Homer Echevarria; ” Taking care of Kennedy”
On November 21, 1963, a government informant named Thomas Mosley was negotiating the sale of machine guns to a Cuban exile named Echevarria. In the course of the transaction, Echevarria said that “we now have plenty of money – our new backers are Jews” and would close the arms deal “as soon as we [or they] take care of Kennedy.” Echevarria also expressed a favourable opinion of LBJ. The next day, Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas.
Mosley reported his conversation to the Secret Service. On 26 Nov 1963, the SS wrote:
“Investigation by the Chicago office did not disclose any violation under our jurisdiction and check-ups never initiated. Subject not interviewed.”
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Homer_Echevarria_-_Taking_Care_of_Kennedy.html
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=363
Late President Gaddafi on the murder of President Kennedy:
” Kennedy decided to monitor the Dimona nuclear plant. He insisted on doing so in order to determine whether or not it produced nuclear weapons.
The Israelis refused, but he insisted.
This crisis was resolved with the resignation of Ben-Gurion. He resigned so he would not have to agree to the monitoring of the Dimona plant.
And then he gave the green light for the killing of President Kennedy”
In his 1991 book, “The Crisis Years,” historian Michael Beschloss wrote:
“Kennedy knew that sexual compromise and blackmail was one of the oldest instruments of espionage. In the America of the early 1960′s, if the president was shown to have slept with a woman not his wife, his political career would have been gravely damaged. If that woman was shown to be connected in some important way with a Soviet bloc government, he would have almost surely been thrown out of office.”
“In any case, the idea that the CIA is a law unto itself, beyond political control, is itself a hypothesis that I find unconvincing.”
Yes, you’ve made multiple unsupported assertions to that effect. What part of the Huston memo, the IIPA, the operational files exemption, and the political questions doctrine do you find unconvincing? What part of 50 U.S.C. §403w “shall be final and conclusive and shall not be subject to review by any court” do you find unconvincing?
CIA is not out of control, it’s firmly in control. The DCI can designate his crimes a state secret. That is arbitrary power negating the idea of rule of law. 1949 marked the end of the ancien régime. Your notion that an entity with absolute sovereignty needs a ‘nod’ from someone is a relic of those days of yore. Do you mean to contradict Fletcher Prouty, who was there at inception, and watched CIA systematically consolidate its policy and programmatic initiative? Feel free to debunk him in depth:
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/ST.html
The US government is CIA, full stop.
President Kennedy on secret societies and their hijacking of the government:
” The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. [...]
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.
Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumour is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.”
What would President Kennedy have made of AIPAC, if he hadn’t been murdered?
[Laurent Guyénot]: “To be precise, the autopsy, in Washington Navy Hospital, was controlled by the Navy, and the Navy was heavily under Johnson’s control.”
[Dube]: Thank you. That would seem to explain how LBJ might have influenced the Bethesda post-mortem. But does it?
Could LBJ, acting from afar in terms of both distance and forensic knowledge, order an admiral to have the surgeon alter or misreport JFK’s wounds, possibly to fit a predetermined scenario?
One might consider that LBJ would be expected to authorize it, but that seems to presuppose an understanding among the officers in the room.
Where does that take us?
The next issue of Life magazine, already all put together and scheduled for publication days after Nov. 22, and which had the cooperation of RFK and his Justice Department, was about the Bobby Baker scandal and LBJ’s involvement. It would have meant the end of LBJ’ s career. Once JFK was killed and LBJ became president, the issue was canceled. LBJ had to act fast.
The Lavon Affair in 1954 also happened during a period when Ben Gurion was out of office.
The US tried to keep an arms race out of the Middle East. Frustrated, Nasser turned to the Soviet block which started to supply Egypt with weapons in 1955. Britain France and Israel invaded Egypt the next year, and the Soviet Union became close to Nasser. But Egypt never posed a threat to Israel that would require nukes to stop, the Israeli nuke was just a way to force America to sell advanced arms to Israel so that it had overwhelming conventional superiority and would thus never need to nuke the Arabs. The HAWK advanced anti aircraft missile, the forst real cutting edge weapon they got, was sold to Israel soon after JFK became pres. As far as taking their aid away that would only happen if they admitted they had a nuke (the inspections were kept been perfunctory) , Kennedy was a Navy man. His attitude was “Don’t ask, don’t tell”. Kennedy’s best friend and long time roomate was gay by the way. Jackie* was puzzled he had a room at the White House and their almost every weekend.
See Part I commenter Jim Christian, who clinched the matter with simple geometry, noting (per his 1984 viewing of the nest), that Oswald could only have made the shot by hanging out the window by his toenails. Caveat: Jim also was also quite strident that Ian Poulter wouldn’t make the cut at the U.S. Open.
Hypotheses are, by definition, unsupported.
As for
LOL
USC 50 §403w concerns the CIA Director’s authorities relating to the hiring, pay and pension benefits of employees of the agency. It ain’t got nuthin’ to do with the present discussion.
He had dirt on John F Kennedy too including his having lied about suffering from Addison’s disease. Kennedy did not dare sack Hoover for that reason.
Killing Bobby’s brother achieved little but pissing Bobby off. RFK was still alive and kicking in Justice and rich and influential and with relations like Ben Bradlee. He could have got the story out through a backchannel and had nothing to lose either
JFK would not have been president without LBJ, and he could not been reelected without winning Texas again. LBJ could have weathered any storm. Reporters in the mainstream studiously ignored concealed, all sorts of things about JFK while he was pres that were common knowledge ,but after he was dead lo and behold they had all these stories they were working on about his priapic personal life and liaisons with women from the criminal underworld or the Soviet Block which were just about about to be published. Don’t you believe it, or that the Kennedy’s would have got into a slinging match with Johnson at that point and given up any hope of winning reelection for another term in the White House.
It turns out that there were arrest records? Is that supposed to be surprising, or what?
That’s not a debunking. It merely indicates (if the Dallas Police records have not been falsified) that if the three tramps were CIA operatives in tramp’s clothing, they had a convincing false bios. to go with their attire. In the case of CIA operatives, one would expect nothing less.
My first thought:
Watch your back, Ron.
This is explosive.
For an “in passing” reference to how the guns were procured for the assassination,
and also a very interesting and instructive read, I highly recommend
“I Heard You Paint Houses: Frank “The Irishman” Sheeran and the Inside Story of the Mafia, the Teamsters, and the Final Ride of Jimmy Hoffa,” by Charles Brandt. Also suggests that the best person to carry out an assassination is the one closest to the target, even the closest friend. Also, shows how someone can play a role in a conspiracy, as a cog in the machine, without having any idea of doing so.
Regarding the suspicion falling/not falling on LBJ, I believe this was a complicated psychological dynamic. Because, as Ron points out, OF COURSE!!! LBJ would be the prime suspect. And many, many, had this thought. But then a reverse thought entered: It is so obvious that OF COURSE it cannot be true. This latter stance is then reinforced by all of the theatrics that follow and the idea is considered absurd and nuts.
This ploy has been used as a plot device by many, many mystery writers. I am not a great reader of mysteries, but I have seen enough on TV etc. to suggest this, and I believe it would be quite useful for someone who is a mystery maven to provide a list of mysteries where the plot turns on suspicion falling on the “obvious” suspect, who was the one in the same room, or the beneficiary of the huge insurance payout, etc. Then the plot turn is that the sleuth basically discards this idea because it is too obvious and follows other leads that look more promising—in the sense that they provide a showcase for the sleuth’s cunning and methods, etc. The sleuth, having discarded the too obvious and therefore not credible idea may even enlist the aid of the original prime suspect, who of course throws the sleuth off the scent. So that the sleuth develops a psychological block against seriously considering the obvious perpetrator. And it takes a shock —maybe an overheard conversation; a new source suddenly appearing; a new motivation suddenly being revealed—for scales to fall from the eyes of the sleuth and see that the “first suspect”—say, the one who first reported the person missing, etc.—is the actual murderer.
In our case, I think the Piper and USS Liberty revelations fall into the last category, of new motivations. (I recall very well the first time I heard of the Liberty event, and I didn’t believe it could be true; I thought this must be some crackpot! It just didn’t seem possible that such an event would not be common knowledge. A perfect example of how effective media suppression is.) It is even possible that Mossad already had enough stuff on Johnson to apply pressure to him to go along with their plan. I have the Piper book and read it a few years ago, and although I have forgotten most of the specific details, since then I have been hyper-aware of the Israeli connection and how this points to Lansky as an instrumental part of the plan. And that is why my antennae started twitching when I read the Frank Sheeran account. Read it. And forget relying on the movie! AFAI can see, it is a cleaned-up version of a fraction of the real story that Sheeran tells. Sheeran is immensely sympathetic. And Brandt supplies very useful analysis and commentary to frame the Sheeran interviews.
I agree on Prouty.
Very good, credible source.
I don’t know why some discredit him as a source.
Most likely because they have an agenda to discredit good sources!
One point on which I think I disagree with Ron is his implication that Vietnam policy continued as before under Johnson. Per Douglass, this was not the case. Kennedy was ready to start trying to get out of Vietnam, and things were reversed under Johnson.
“Italians wanted their interests in Cuba back.”
Actually, I believe the jewish mob had more extensive interests in Cuba.
Traditionally the Jewish mob controlled illegal liquor networks (originating in Canada/Bronfman—I think maybe Piper mentions this). And gambling.
Also, the mob could not have relied on the cover-up mechanism. In fact, an investigation of the mob would have been a two-fer for most Americans!! So why didn’t Johnson direct his Justice Department to investigate them?
Another reason why Israel would want to wipe out JFK and his brothers is the belief that the family was tainted by antisemitism, from the father, ambassador in England before WW2, who believed, and said, (correctly) that the Jews in England were the ones pushing for war with Germany, to JFK himself, who, in his book Profiles in Courage, singled out for praise Senator Taft, who condemned the Nuremberg trials as revenge, not justice.
I wouldn’t put much stock in the claim that Johnson had an ‘emotional feel’ for the Jews.
No one in his years (in his bios) before politics remembers him ever talking about Jews or Israel.
What most happens regarding politicians and Jews/Israel is that presidents who have aided Israel are written about by the Jews as ‘ loving Jews or Israel.’
Why do they do this? For the same reason it is done today—-Jews dont want to portray Israel friendly presidents or politicians as ‘loving Jews for the money/campaign donations and helpful media —–and politicians of course don’t want to say they love the Jewish money instead of Jews and Israel……So the both play the ‘spin game’ of loving Israel as the reason they support it.
The time line of Johnson’s life shows that his first ‘awareness of the JQ/meet up with Jews began thru newspaper owner Charles Marsh. It was Marsh, at the behest of his mistress and later wife Alice Glass , who sent Johnson on errands to aid the Jews. It was mainly Alice, who although not Jewish, fancied herself a sort of queenly lady bountiful with Marsh’s money and pursued causes.
It was Marsh’s new papers that made the poor school teacher Johnson a congressman.
It was also Marsh who financed Johnson ‘s helping the Jews. Here’s an example of Marsh and Johnson;
”Leinsdorf, a Jewish musician did not want to return to Nazi Germany and asked Marsh and Alice if they could help him to stay in the United States. The next day Marsh drove Leinsdorf to Washington where they stayed in his suite at the Mayflower Hotel. Leinsdorf explained in his autobiography, Cadenza: A Musical Career (1976), that Marsh summoned Lyndon B. Johnson to the hotel: “A lanky young man appeared. He treated Charles with the informal courtesy behooving a youngster toward an older man to whom he is in debt.” Johnson then arranged for Leinsdorf to become a “permanent resident” of the United States.’
Johnson complained to Marsh later that he found it difficult managing on his Congress salary. Marsh arranged for Johnson’s wife to buy nineteen acres on Lake Austin for $8,000, which he knew was an area that was likely to be developed and would increase dramatically in value. Lady Bird Johnson later sold the land for $330,000. He also provided the money for Johnson to buy the Fort Worth radio station that he said would be “some day worth $3 million”. Marsh also offered Johnson the opportunity to buy some of his oil wells cheaply. Johnson declined the offer as he feared that this “could kill me politically”.
During the 1938 campaign, Marsh agreed to ask his business friends to contribute to the campaign. He eventually arranged for Johnson to be paid $5,000 a week. Mary Louise Glass, (Alice’s sister) Marsh’s private secretary, said it was her job to “keep track of who paid.”
Marsh was a strong opponent of Adolf Hitler and urged United States intervention in the Second World War. He joined forces with Walter Lippmann, Claude Pepper and Benjamin Cohen to help draft a plan to send military aid to Britain.
To Johnson if the Marsh and Jews friends money tree was for it he was for it.
This was the real marriage of the Jews and Johnson and brought in Abe Feinberg , Eddie Weisl and Abe Fortas and all their contacts. They greased his way into the senate and his presidential run.
They were among the first calls he made the day after Kennedy was killed.
What we can truthfully say about Johnson and Isr and Jews is that he literally “outsourced’ all that policy to his Jewish benefactors ….in return for their support.
One interesting link that does not appear in these comments is James Angleton’s extreme admiration and support for Israel, especially Mossad.
“One might consider that LBJ would be expected to authorize it, but that seems to presuppose an understanding among the officers in the room.”
- The body of President Kennedy was removed from Parkland hospital under armed threats from the SS. It should been undergone autopsy there, to respect the law and to preserve the chain of evidence. Moving his body was already a cover-up action.
- The doctors in charge of the autopsy at Bethesda (Humes and Boswell) had never conducted any in their life. Not one autopsy, ever.
- The autopsy was at all times under control of the SS, and its lead Roy Kellerman. There were around 30 people around the body during the entire autopsy.
- Radiographer Jerrol Francis Custer took X-rays of the president’s head: it was riddled with bullet fragments, indicating a frangible bullet, and hence a second murder weapon. He was told by his manager Dr Ebersole to “keep his mouth shut” (AARB, 1997).
- Forensic Material evidence, photos taken, pathology slides, were all handed to Roy Kellerman, head of SS. All later disappeared.
- Dr Humes’ boss G. Berkeley got hold of the President’s brain, which would have kept traces of the fatal shot. The brain later disappeared and is unaccounted for to the day.
- Later after the autopsy, and after a meeting with the SS, Dr Ebersole required radiographer Custer to tape full-metal jacket bullets to the President’s bone, and to produce forged X-rays.
- J.E. Hoover required agents Siebert and O’Neill to stay with the body all throughout the autopsy. Their report strongly contradicted the magic bullet theory; it was discarded by Arlen Specter and not presented to the Warren commission.
- Dr Humes autopsy notes “disappeared” too.
….And the list goes on. It is very clear that the most active actors in the forensic cover-up were certain individuals within the SS and at Bethesda Navy Hospital.
Ethics , idealism , class, intelligence and beauty: the Kennedys will never be forgotten.
Dube favorably quoted Laurent Guyenot:
“[Laurent Guyénot]: “To be precise, the autopsy, in Washington Navy Hospital, was controlled by the Navy, and the Navy was heavily under Johnson’s control.”
Hi Dube,
Above, I note that there remains a special need to consult with Lifton’s great forensic work, his book, “Best Evidence.”
Step by scientific step, Mr. Lifton demonstrated that the work & findings of Parkland Hospital E.R. doctors profoundly differed from that performed under control of “the Navy and Johnson.”
W.T.F.?
For me, to let the Texas doctors do & report their E.R. “thing” unsupervised was either a major operational boo-boo or diabolically intentional. Fyi, I support the latter motive which guaranteed enhanced cognitive dissonance among shocked Americans.
“Best Evidence” is & always shall be the type of evidence that Chief Culprits particularly enjoy turning away from ZUS citizen-consumer’s attention.
Thanks dube, and don’t bogart that Bethesda joint? Such takes you nowhere!
You’re obviously too ignorant to understand that professional assassins don’t use a “someone” as a shooter or driver. As to 9/11, the demolition professionals were in all likelihood flown in from Israel months before 9/11 to do the job and then flown back Israel on the morning of 9/11, if not before.
George Bush wasn’t turned into a dummy, he was born a dummy. The best part of George Bush ran down his mother’s leg, with the same being true for Marvin Bush, and the rest of the family.
You’re reading it wrong. Next time read it twice before you laugh out loud so you don’t look dumb. Lower-case letters are the top-level subdivisions of the section titled Intelligence operations and cover enhancement authority. Equivalent language governs legislative inspections, investigations or audits. Another provision at the same level gives the DCI equally non-reviewable discretion to exempt designated employees from mandatory compliance with any Federal regulation, rule, standardized administrative policy, process, or procedure. They’ve set aside everything but Emily Post’s Etiquette, for christssake.
This could not be clearer. Congress and the courts know arbitrary power when they see it. Surely you’ve noticed how abjectly they suck CIA ass. You’ve seen them try to write loopholes into jus cogens at CIA’s behest.
You’re consistently quite sensible at Craig Murray’s place; what is the mental block here? Is this some kind of american patriotic thing, not being able to face living in a totalitarian state?
There was always an Italian mafia and a Jewish mafia. Over the past 40 years or so, the Italian mafia has largely faded from view, while the Jewish mafia has prospered and expanded to the point where it effectively controls (through bribery, blackmail and intimidation) all three branches of the United States government.
Cut the bafflegab and give us some exact quotes, or we can safely assume that you’re BSing.
As for CM, I rarely comment there unless he’s having a sane spell, or a particularly insane spell.
I just read the book online. Unfortunately it’s white print on a navy background. Why do people do that? I suppose they think it’s cool. It’s not. It’s just pretentious and annoying to read.
The investigators never named any suspects that could be charged.
It was just the standard mish mash of KKK minutemen?? right wingers White southerners anti Castro Cubans oil companies big business segregationists CIA FBI. At least he didn’t claim the secret service killed JFK, just claimed it was incompetent.
Same old same old
One of the on line reviews of the book said it was commissioned by Robert Kennedy to help him with his presidential run. After he was killed it was withheld because he was dead and the book couldn’t help him obviously. The review claimed the Frenchmen were Petroleum experts. Maybe they worked for the French government gas company ELF??? Since France imports all its gas and oil I suppose ELF needs a security force.
At any rate, no suspects, just groups and speculation.
You need to express yourself more accurately. You said “knew enough details” to spill the beans. Obviously as I point out, there are many details that are capable of upending the official stories.
Your loose thinking, which was what I was getting at, extends to
(a) using the word “ignorant” in a way that implies the ludicrous claim that one of the subjects you can speak of authoritatively is how professional assassins arrange their logistics (yes, *I guess too* that professional assassins would *try* and choose the drivers and other assistants carefully),
(b) not even emphasising “in the position to talk” which another commenter has picked up on.
As to the other commenter’s suggestion that effectually no one is ever in a position to talk because they fear for their own and others lives, it is, obviously not something any conspirators can rely on and not actually likely. We already have Howard Hunt’s alleged death bed confession and of course many people after several decades would no longer fear that there were some dedicated professionals ready to carry out retribution in a way that might matter to them. They would often prefer to take the money, enjoy the fame, or just do the right thing. The fatwah on Salman Rushdie was never lifted but he came out of hiding decades ago.
You at least replied with more logic than Carroll Price to whom I have just said:
You need to express yourself more accurately. You said “knew enough details” to spill the beans. Obviously as I point out, there are many details that are capable of upending the official stories.
Your loose thinking, which was what I was getting at, extends to
(a) using the word “ignorant” in a way that implies the ludicrous claim that one of the subjects you can speak of authoritatively is how professional assassins arrange their logistics (yes, *I guess too* that professional assassins would *try* and choose the drivers and other assistants carefully),
(b) not even emphasising “in the position to talk” which another commenter has picked up on.
As to his [your] suggestion that effectually no one is ever in a position to talk because they fear for their own and others lives, it is, obviously not something any conspirators can rely on and not actually likely. We already have Howard Hunt’s alleged death bed confession and of course many people after several decades would no longer fear that there were some dedicated professionals ready to carry out retribution in a way that might matter to them. They would often prefer to take the money, enjoy the fame, or just do the right thing. The fatwah on Salman Rushdie was never lifted but he came out of hiding decades ago.
“which for years the FBI prevented from being imported into America”. C’mon. That’s a fantastic story. needs to be backed with your evidence was my first thought but then I remembered my internet manners and did a search. I append what I found but still leave you to explain please what real evidence of RFK’s employing (how could he?) French Intelligence there was. As to the pseudonymous James Hepburn’s book it clearly has as much credibility as former British intelligence officer Peter Wright’s “Spycatcher” of 1970s fame and seems to have been written by a Dan Brown. (I appreciate that you are not saying it is any good but you may not recall that it is, apparently, partly a compilation from conspiracy theories already published). NB said to be “now dated”!
*** ***
Description
Product description
Originally published in 1968 in France under the title L’Amerique Brule (America Is Burning), Farewell America quickly became a best-seller in Europe in eleven languages. It was the inside story of the assassination of President John Kennedy. Although borrowing heavily from published critics of the Warren Commission Report, the book describes the roots of the Cold War, the linkage between large corporate and banking interests, the ever-growing American intelligence apparatus, and the international petroleum cartels that were lined up with a bevy of military brass and Mafia chieftains against JFK. A combination of these powerful interests called “The Committee” coordinated all aspects of the murder, from setting the time and place of the shooting to the recruitment of the gunmen and the coverup of the conspiracy afterward. The bottom line was that enemies of JFK collaborated with the CIA to erase the perceived threat to their interests by John and Robert Kennedy. Heady stuff for 1968. So incendiary, in fact, that importation of the book through Canada was squelched, allegedly at the instigation of the FBI. Farewell America wasn’t just another book about the assassination conspiracy; it bristled with restricted information about U.S. intelligence agencies, the White House, global business, and military and political affairs that had to have come from a knowlegdeable source, in this case, French intelligence. It also represented the surreptitious intrusion by those in French government circles into American politics, namely, the 1968 presidential elections.
From Publishers Weekly
Originally published in Europe in 1968, this is a once-notorious, now-dated look at John Kennedy’s assassination and an excoriation of the American scene in its aftermath. Turner (Rearview Mirror, etc.) explains in his introduction that the book was first published under mysterious circumstances and was “aimed at advancing the 1968 presidential campaign of Robert F. Kennedy,” but its U.S. distribution was rapidly curtailed after RFK’s death. The authors (“James Hepburn” is a pseudonym) conducted clandestine research among KGB and Interpol agents and French petroleum espionage specialists and relied on a rare, unmodified print of the famed Zapruder film. The book seethes with aggrieved passion in defending the Kennedys and their ideals, and seeks to defrock the “lone gunman” theory of JFK’s assassination. Most of the text is a damning jeremiad, portraying pre-1964 America as a vicious, discriminatory oligarchy controlled by alliances of Big Steel and Big Oil, the military and organized crime, which all had reason to fear JFK’s proposed reforms. According to “Hepburn,” these interests combined with ultra-right-wing paramilitary groups like the Minutemen and Cuban exile groups to plan the assassination. Chapters discussing the assassination itself will be grimly convincing to some readers, with excellent analyses of the Secret Service’s failures and the ambiguous roles played by the CIA and FBI during this tumultuous era. This is a pungent historical document, but its conspiracy theory is familiar by now, and its information has been surpassed by more recent studies such as Murder in Dealey Plaza, edited by James Fetzer.
Copyright 2002 Reed Business Information, Inc.
Review
Penmarin Books deserves high praise for allowing Farewell America to reach a new and expanded audience. — Ed Tatro, JFK assassination expert
Penmarin Books deserves high praise for allowing Farewell America to reach a new and expanded audience. — Ed Tatro, JFK assassination expert
Penmarin Books deserves high praise for allowing Farewell America to reach a new and expanded audience. — Ed Tatro, JFK assassination expert
About the Author
Herve Lamarre, the publisher of the original edition of Farewell America, admitted that the author of record, James Hepburn, was fictitious and that the true sources included Andre Ducret of the Surete; Interpol; and, among others in French intelligence, Philippe Vasjoly, the chief French petroleum agent in the United States. William Turner is an authority on the Kennedy assassinations, the FBI and the CIA, and the author of nine books, including his recent memoirs, Rearview Mirror: Looking Back at the FBI, the CIA and Other Tails.
George de Mohrenschildt, who handled Oswald for the CIA for a while, was an international petroleum engineer who belonged to the Dallas Petroleum Club. That’s just the sort of person intelligence agencies like to hire.
As for “Farewell America,” I cited it not because I agree with all of it, but as evidence that RFK enlisted experts to investigate his brother’s death.
Some versions of the story have the bombers 3 minutes from Cairo when they were recalled. I don’t believe that: they would have been in Egyptian airspace. It is unlikely in any case that the US would have been willing to nuke Cairo, then allied to the Soviet Union, in response to a supposed Egyptian attack on a US warship.
The lone assassin theory is important because it is the null hypothesis that must be disproved.
It wouldn’t have just been RFK’s Kennedy money that was available to finance an investigation though presumably he could get a fair bit done as Attorney-General, which raises the question where would he first want to aim the investigation. (Someone above said btw that RFK would have known all the relevant CIA people but that seems to me wrong. Why would the Attorney-General be close to the CIA?)
It seems likely to me that RFK didn’t have any well formed suspicions of conspiracy for quite a long time. No doubt the question “who would have wanted to do this?” would have crossed his mind but maybe it would have taken a lot of pondering on published theories and musings with friends before he decided that he would want to reopen inquiries. That seems likely since he would have remembered all the shots at Presidents that came from lone nutters:: Lincoln, McKinley and, while campaigning, Theodore Roosevelt come to mind. To the extent he suspected Johnson he might also have reflected that it was unlikely that Johnson’s networks were sufficiently insulated from the Kennedys to make it likely that Johnson was responsible.
I find it surprising that you can entertain for a moment the involvement of Richard Nixon. What possible reason would he have had to want Kennedy killed in 1963 at ANY risk to himself, or at all? And did he have sufficient power or influence then to guarantee a cover up so that anyone wouĺd want to involve him? And what would such a paranoid person think of being involved (if he could trust the intermediaries) with alleged co-conspirator and about to be President LBJ?
Your detailed approach is the right one IMO as you get to test connected ideas in your own mind and with the help of others. As one of the others allow me to point out just one small matter. RFK as Attorney-General would not have had a lot to do with the CIA in the way you suggest, I think.
Don’t play dumb. Anybody here can look it up on the Google. Even you. Last comment, you were pretending to explain it all to me. Now when I rub your nose in it, you’re all baffled by headings.
The Central Intelligence Agency Act confers impunity on CIA. How come you can’t handle it? Proud to be an American, ♬ so at least ♭♪ you know you’re free?
The message to those who counted was not very clear, because even today we are wondering which of JFK’s policies prompted his assassination!
We can always hope the fatwa on this low-life will one day succeed.
I don’t think you need to look for a sinister explanation as to why the news was unpleasant. LBJ was asking a 70-year-old man to come out of retirement and do nearly a year’s onerous work.
Agreed.
Fascinating article. What I find most fascinating about it is that it was published in anything resembling a semi mainstream website. As the Jews cement power I can’t see this being allowed to continue even though Ron is Jewish. Not just this article but too many other thought crime pieces noticing Jewish power and Israeli misdeeds are posted on Unz.com.
Given that few of the mainstream “right” and conservative sites will look at these obvious issues more and more mainstream people are likely to gravitate to unz in the years ahead. At what point and traffic size does unz.com become too big of a threat to continue? I imagine that the next Democratic presidency will not bode well for unz.com or Ron’s personal safety.
Indeed. And a shot through the windscreen would be one of the best proofs . I spent a lot of time listening to the David Weldon interview/address that someone linked. (I now see it was “tac” and he has just diminished its weight in my mind, albeit not wholly logically, by a truly bizarre response to what was actually a positive response by me). I would like to check whether the windscreen was armoured glass so as to be effectively bullet proof. Another question that occurs to me results from the description of the fatal wound being by a frangible bullet and there being, accordingly, bullet fragmants in the brain. How does that square with the (frangible) bullet hitting even an ordinary laminated glass windshield? For completeness I add the speculative possibility that Oswald might have fired his first shot through the windshield. While there is some evidence of a bullet hole in the windscreen it is less clear that it is a front to back hole.
For James N. Kennett:
The lone assassin theory is important because it is the
nullbull hypothesis thatmust behas been disproved.In the autopsy room, when Humes asked, “Who’s in charge here?” an admiral replied, “I am,” as repeated by Humes – as I think I recall reading. O. Stone represents it in his JFK film.
So who was in command – the military or the Secret Service?
Geopolitics.
The US was the only real bulwark against the threat of global communist revolution. The Soviet Union was the largest contiguous empire the world has ever seen, and it possessed a vast military establishment that was armed with bigger nukes and better missiles than the Americans possessed at the time. Moreover, the Soviets were aligned with the Chinese empire, the most populous state on earth.
What was to stop the Soviets and the Chinese taking all of South-East Asia while instigating Communist revolution in S. America and Africa? Only America, with the feeble support of her NATO allies.
But Kennedy was soft on Communism. He failed to give the Soviets a bloody nose over the Cuban missile base. He failed to back the CIA-orchestrated Bay of Pigs invasion of Communist Cuba, and he indicated he’d back out of the war against Communist revolution in Vietnam if he won in ’64. And he would have been unbeatable in ’64.
What to do? Kill the SOB.
If you look at it from that point of view, a bipartisan decision to terminate Kennedy was vital to the security of the Western world, and thus morally justified.
At the time, it never occurred to me, or I suspect to more than a very small number of Americans, to look at it that way. Therefore, the incident was viewed, as it is to this day, as a heinous crime. But with an appreciation of the geopolitical situation at the time, it must surely have appeared to the national security establishment as a fortunate development in the struggle against the Communist menace.
Just listen to the testimony of the doctors, Oz, then you’ll be in little doubt as to the direction of the fatal bullet.
Ha! As I thought. You cannot provide the evidence because it is a figment of your imagination.
” I Can’t buy the argument that Israel and the big jewish money/media actual wanted him over Gore and Joe Lib. In 2000.”
I’ve never suggested that. “Israel and the big jewish money/media ” always support both candidates. They always win. Only those naîve people -and American people seem to be naîve and some would even say stupid – believe that there are differences between the candidates that every 4 years, those who colonized the USA, decide to present to the American people so they can “choose” who is the best for them.
Only fools really believed that there were differences between the war criminal HC and future war criminal Donald Trump.
I’m sure that even the “socialist” candidate , Sanders, – if he had been elected – wouldn’t have changed “American” foreign policy.
“I despise Bush but I voted for him twice, that does not mean that Kerry or Gore would have been an improvement. ”
Agree. I’m sure Al Gore would have taken the same decisions that GWB took. No doubt Gore would have destroyed Iraq and become a “great president”/ a war president.
“I despise Bush but I voted for him twice”..
Maybe that is the problem, isn’t ?
Maybe a peaceful revolution is possible if 98% of American people just decide to stay at home instead of giving their consent to the mafia who then go on slaughtering innocent people around the world to “defend” Israel.
http://www.jfksouthknollgunman.com/index.php/04-2-bullet-hole/
Dr. Evalea Glanges (a medical student at the time of the assassination):
***
“But it was very clear, it was a through and through bullet hole, through the windshield of the car, from the front to the back”. [sic]
“No way there’s even any cracks associated with that bullet hole, It seemed like a high velocity bullet that had penetrated from front to back in that glass pane” [sic]
***
George Whitaker, Sr. (Ford Motor Company manager at the time of the assassination):
***
“It was a good clean bullet hole right through the screen from the front, right, this had a clean round hole in the front and the fragmentation coming out of the back” [sic]
***
“Etc., etc., etc.!” — Yul Brynner
***
If Lee Oswald had shot the first shot, that Friday afternoon, through the middle of the presidential limousine’s front windshield, from the “sniper’s nest” in the southeast corner window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, where would that bullet have hit, after passing through the windshield? What are the chances that it would have continued almost to the triple underpass, hitting the curb and thereby wounding an onlooker on his cheek?
Your assertion that my response to you was in some way “bizarre”, by your own individual perception, has both its origins and, more importantly, its limitations in your–and thereby its very nature all of our individual very limited personal experiences in many ways limited to that of our own perceptions–inability to formulate the necessary judgement based on the ingredients of its foundation.
You see, my response to your claim that my response to you being “bizarre” in your estimation, but in my sphere of thoughts and deliberations is finely-tuned and a result of a deductive reasoning simply based on the evidence you have thus far presented in my relatively short-lived time here on UR–when the genesis henceforth is taken into account. In other words, one formulates opinions and beliefs based on on external stimulii, and conversely the inputs based on biological input sensors, personal experience, and to some extent inherited traits. So then when one formulates a response, in this particular example, it is based entirely on the aggregate of one’s personal experience along with the consumption of the other individual’s past proclivities to be either objective or to lean in a certain direction, no matter what is presented to them–especially his/her past statements, or, more importantly (to some individuals), their non-statements (to some extent). Nonetheless, one must always be cognizant of the possibility that one can be wrong at any time, but am I wrong in your case? Hardly, I posit…
A few examples for your consideration–assuming, for a short time, that you are not merely a thespian actor[ess] in the theatrical production played by and choriographed by Hasbara induced syndicate:
Did you not recently fall head-over-heels when your partner Incitatus (on a thread authored by Eric Zuesse in response to David Irving), being seemingly over-confident that [s]he single-handedly evicirated the 911 truther movement when [s]he posted the collapse of the [abandoned for more than 17 years] building in San Paolo, Brazil as some sort of ironclad proof that this building fell in its own footprint solely because of a fire in the suposted conclusion that this spells the end of the 911 truther movement with this ONE SINGLE example, and to which YOU, WoZ, threw your overwhelming support in a serires of replies to Incitatus–all the while consciously IGNORING MY substantive reply to Incitatus, complete with “logical” reasoning and substantiated with photographic evidence to counter that argument–CHOOSING, as YOU DID so cowardly, to ignore my presentation, in the aftermath–just as you seemingly gloss over YOUR considerable requests at peer review, PHD level analysis (as others lack any competent ability to produce substantive results by your own admission) and others claims to authority–all the while saying naught of the same when it comes to the holocaust narrative!!!
What other “bizzare” conclusions did I arrive at (perhaps for some unbeknownst conspiritorial related reason) when it dealing with just you, WoZ….?: Namely, that you are my (((Australian))) friend??? Your own words gave you away:
Wizard of Oz says:
June 19, 2018 at 3:27 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Carlton Meyer
The name of L. Fletcher Prouty on this thread rang a bell that didn’t flatter any image I retained of him. Your link brought it back. He had never been of great seniority or importance and the words of a witty former Foreign Minister of ours came back : he was suffering from “relevance deprivation syndrome”.
• Replies: @lysias
(http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-i-what-happened/#comment-2379980)
Gareth John Evans
“from 1988-96 – Foreign Minister”
Website http://gevans.org/
“Welcome to relevance deprivation syndrome, a common but difficult to define experience for those climbing off the corporate treadmill.”
…
“This “syndrome” is in fact not medically defined. The expression was coined by former foreign affairs minister Gareth Evans after his retirement. After 21 years in public life, Evans was upfront and honest about the internal battle he expected to face out of the limelight.”
https://www.afr.com/business/facing-irrelevance-after-life-on-the-corporate-treadmill-20130305-j126m
“Gareth John Evans AC, QC (born 5 September 1944), is an Australian international policymaker and former politician…and most prominently, from 1988 to 1996, as Foreign Minister.”
…
“He also did not enjoy the move to opposition after thirteen years in government, coining the expression ‘relevance deprivation syndrome’”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gareth_Evans_(politician)
“When you wake in the morning and say, ‘What am I going to do today’ it’s actually really difficult. When you finish being a minister you suffer from relevance deprivation syndrome. If Moore’s comments sound familiar, it is because he was purposefully parroting the sentiment expressed by the former foreign minister Gareth Evans, who famously suffered from the same syndrome after losing office in 1996.”
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/relevance-deprivation-syndrome-does-it-really-matter-20131209-2z1bu.html
Letter written in prison by Jack Ruby to his brother Earl. It was reprinted in a book written by his appellate attorney Gertz (and quoted on John McAdams’ website):
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ruby.htm
Somehow Mike Piper missed this note as I cannot find discussion of it anywhere in his book.
McAdams cites the note as evidence of paranoid delusions on Ruby’s part.
But what I find remarkable about it are the following points:
1. The extreme degree of concern by Ruby for Israel.
2. Ruby’s belief that something he or Earl Ruby could do personally might “save Israel.”
3. In this account, Johnson is anti-Israel. Under Mike Piper’s theory, JFK was anti-Israel and Johnson was pro-Israel. Of course, that doesn’t mean that Ruby was not under the impression that Johnson was pro-Israel, or was informed by Mossad to that effect, at the time of the JFK assassination.
4. In Ruby’s telling, Cuba is the safe place to which he advises Earl to go and from which he “still may be able to save Israel.” From Cuba he can go to Russia, and Ruby thinks if Russia is told the ‘truth’ then Russia will save Israel.
5. Ruby certainly doesn’t come across here as some patriotic American who killed Oswald to spare Jackie emotional distress. Israel appears to rank much higher in terms of his loyalties than the USA.
6. In Ruby’s so called ‘deathbed interview’ to his lawyer Gertz he certainly doesn’t seem delusional: http://www.jfk-online.com/rubydeathbed.html
I think the evidence of Oswald as the shooter (and the only shooter) of JFK is conclusive.
Nevertheless, the killing of Oswald by Ruby and the unsatisfactory explanations for it raise a very strong suspicion of a conspiracy involving at least those two, even if the connection to each other in the conspiracy were merely indirect until the moment of the killing of Oswald.
I suspect the plan was for Oswald to escape with the help of the Cuban exile splinter groups in Dallas, using their safe houses, as detailed in Bob Baer’s recent documentary on the History Channel “Tracking Oswald.” Perhaps Oswald’s plan was to get to Cuba and then on to the Soviet Union, where Marina as a Soviet citizen could come join him with their child and live out their lives in Minsk or Pinsk or some such place.
But having been caught by police (thanks to the heroism of Officer Tippit and others), Oswald needed to be silenced if there was a chance he would divulge the identities of others who knew beforehand of his plan to kill JFK.
This is why, for example, Ruby shows up in the Dallas police headquarters among the group of reporters observing the situation as Oswald is processed the evening of the shooting. To reconnoiter the situation with respect to Oswald on behalf of his Mossad contact.
It has been claimed by a defector who was a member of Cuban intelligence that on the day of the JFK assassination, Castro instructed the intelligence bureau to redirect their equipment from Virginia to Dallas. I noted earlier in this thread the interesting close connection to Castro of Ricardo Wolf, a Cuban Jew who was sent by Castro to Israel as ambassador.
Perhaps the means of communication to Castro of the impending attempt on JFK in Dallas was not the Cuban exiles floating around Dallas (or perhaps in addition to them), but rather Mossad.
To elaborate on a possible theory of this:
1. After the JFK appearance in Dallas is announced, Mossad starts fishing around to see if there is some local goy in Dallas willing to take a shot at JFK.
2. In furtherance of this, Mossad liaises with US organized crime Jews about the situation in Dallas. Mossad is told that there are some violent Cuban groups in Dallas left over from the Bay of Pigs effort. And that the local man in Dallas known by organized crime Jews is Jack Ruby.
3. Mossad passes money to Ruby to hand out to the local Dallas Cubans to see what might turn up if they drag some money through these groups. This is why one of the Cubans was said to have remarked that “the Jews were now providing them money” to buy arms.
4. None of the Cubans seems interested in killing the American president. However, they happen to know of a crazy gringo named Oswald who comes to their meetings and harangues them with diatribes about the superiority of communism. Oswald with the help of a couple of the Cubans had tried to assassinate a conservative retired American general a few months before.
5. Oswald had already been talking about his hatred for JFK after the assassination attempts on Castro had been reported in the press, and Oswald had been making outbursts along these lines as early as his trip to Mexico City. The Cubans dare Oswald to kill JFK and to prove that he is as tough as he claims, tougher than these Cubans, and a man of his word. If Oswald kills JFK, they will help him escape afterward.
6. Oswald goes through with it. Not that many people know of his plan beforehand. The Cubans; Jack Ruby and his Mossad contact, and whomever Mossad tells; Castro learns of it through infiltrated Cubans in Dallas or from the Mossad; organized crime Jews and a few pals like Giancana and Trafficante; perhaps even CIA minders of the Dallas Cubans though they may not have taken the rumor seriously.
7. Oswald bungles the aftermath and is captured alive. Mossad contacts Ruby. To save Israel, we must silence Oswald so that no word of Israel’s involvement can ever be discovered by investigators. To save Israel, Ruby kills Oswald and never speaks a word of Israel’s involvement.
Apologies for not being entirely clear, but I was making reference to the hard evidence that he was witnessed in the lunchroom at 12.15 and, just after the assassination, was confronted by Baker when Oswald had a Coke in his hand. He had, most definitely, not just come down from the 6th floor as two female employees who had been on the relevant stairs stated, categorically, that no one had come by them in the aftermath of the killing.
‘2,000 different theories’. No, there aren’t. Another desperate, pathetic attempt at deflection from the hard facts that point towards conspiracy.
Nothing to do with Castro, who rebutted any suspicions he may be involved in a major speech shortly afterward, making very hard-hitting accusations as the who may be involved.
JFK was going to ‘splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and cast it to the winds’. Do you sincerely believe that rogue agents within this murderous, deeply corrupt organisation would not wish to take action?
Total crap, yet again from the primary troll. He was questioned for hours, no substantial notes taken. ‘Probably anticipated some grandiose trail..’. Laughable speculation to deflect from the fact that Oswald denied any involvement in any crime whatsoever and, given the magic bullet, the lunchroom appearance, the failed paraffin test, the impossibility of him getting to Tippit’s location, exit wound in back of JFK’s head, he was right to do so and any semi-competent lawyer would ah e destroyed a prosecution’s case.
That’s not up to your scientific standards. Whether there was more than one shooter is one important question for which the state of the windscreen would appear to be weighty evidence. Whether the bullet which killed Kennedy was from the front is a separate question with no necessary connection to the question whether there was a bullet through the windscreen and, if so, from which direction.
I concede the ļogic of your argument but I am doubtful about the factual elements you expressly and implicitly rely on. However I do not have sufficient command of those facts to elaborate my doubts.
We don’t take assignments from manipulative weasels here. Is this all you can do, run from evidence and talk big like you made a point? That’s more convincing when you’re able to argue your way out of a paper bag. So work on that. That way people will not giggle when you use big words like hipoffasiss.
CIA has impunity in municipal law. They use it to control the USA. They killed JFK, RFK, Mary Pinchot Meyer, George de Mohrenschildt, and lots of other cognizant people because that’s what CIA was chartered to do, kill or torture people to maintain totalitarian control.
What you will do now is passive-aggressively avoid that evident point and repeat some variant of nyah-nyah-nyah. All to hold on to the CIA line that CIA’s not in charge. Funny how in all this perseverative Internet noise, that is the residual message, the irreducible core.
Thanks. It is quite baffling that something so apparently simple wasn’t (I presume) wrapped up by the House Select Committee.
It is possible that convincing evidence for a conspiracy is hidden in plain sight, for example in a work such as this one.
A five-volume work is great for documenting facts for the historical record. However, it needs something more to get the story heard, and make people think – a much shorter summary, covering the essential points and the most important evidence, serialized in a newspaper or on a website such as this one.
I read a couple of books on JFK years back including Piper’s, and basically came to the same conclusion. Interestingly Colonel John Hughes-Wilson, with his impeccable military intelligence background, agrees with Piper’s hypothesis too. I don’t take much interest since as it seems we know everything now and most JFK researchers are going round in circles. No doubt Angleton was key to the execution, and LBJ to the coverup, both had reasons of their own, as well as very close links with Israel.
Only interesting thing I have come across since is that the mysterious babushka lady, who filmed the assasination from the best angle, bears a remarkable resemblance to one of Jack Ruby’s sisters. Then that is why it is an interesting whodunnit.
Well, it has been an interesting conversation. It is one thing for some of older us folk to chew the fat about JFK, RFK, LBJ and so forth, but what are young people to think about all this? How are they supposed to make sense of our occulted history?
For me, the lesson is to be vigilant. That is hard to do when the nation has been traumatized. The JKF, MLK, RFK, 911, attacks were all traumatic events. People were so overloaded they simply went into shock. So, what to do?
1. Demand a real forensic investigation.
2. At the first sign of evidence tampering, scream loudly.
3. Government panels like the Warren Commission and 911 Commission are deeply suspect.
Donald Jeffries has a new book out called:
It should probably be required reading in civics classes. He gives an interview here:
Yes, you’re quite right that TSBD employee Carolyn Arnold reported seeing Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom around 12:15 in an interview with the journalist Earl Golz in 1978.
However, in her initial statement to the FBI on 11/26/1963, Arnold said she thought she saw Oswald standing inside the front door of the TSBD:
Note that the initial “statement” is rather the FBI’s paraphrase of Arnold’s actual words, which are not included.
In her second statement to the FBI in March 1964, Arnold merely said she did not see Oswald at the time the President was shot.
http://22november1963.org.uk/carolyn-arnold-witness-oswald
The precise nature of points 1 to 6 may be different; but point 7 is the important one.
What motivated Jack Ruby to kill Oswald? Either Ruby was part of the conspiracy, and would have got a longer sentence if Oswald had talked than he did for actually killing him; or Ruby believed in a cause that was more important to him than his personal liberty. Maybe both.
Several commenters have suggested that Israel would never have dared kill a US President because of the dire consequences of being caught. That risk to Israel would have been evident to Jack Ruby.
It’s been some years since I read Horne’ s work, but my recollection is that the fifth of the five volumes adequately summarizes the whole work. In fact, even if you read all five volumes, my recommendation is to read the final volume first, so that you can better understand the argument of the preceding volumes.
If Marchetti can be believed, you have to wonder why Angleton would take such a step: it would prove a conspiracy involving CIA staffers and, if followed through, it would have encouraged Hunt to tell everything he knew.
Perhaps by this time Angleton had gone completely mad.
I read a couple of chapters of Piper’s book after it was promoted in an earlier article on this site. There is plenty of intriguing material there, but the book has a number of faults that are partly a result of self-publication. It is rambling, self-congratulatory, and polemical; and it mixes important and overlooked information with half-truths and the unimportant. It clearly would have benefited from the services of a professional editor – or better still, a trusted co-author who had an open mind on Piper’s main hypothesis. Nevertheless the book is worth reading.
That letter is certainly evidence of paranoid Israel worship. There is a good movie on Netflix, Beyond JFK.
It’s a documentary about the Garrison investigation and charges against Clay Shaw.
Earl Ruby s featured. He claims that Jack didn’t really intend to kill Oswald. All Jack wanted to was woundOswald to cause him physical pain. Yeah right.
The only way killing Oswald would help Israel is if Oswald had knowledge implicating Israel in the killing of Kennedy.
It’s interesting how authors of the 2,000 books all managed to pick what they’d include in those books.
Another interesting thing is the way the Kennedy killing hobbyist lunatics grandiosly assume that anyone who deviates from their particular obsession is a government spy after then.
If 35 government agencies conspired to kill Kennedy they have no need to search the internet refuting hobbyists.
All your crazy ideas refute themselves and are so crazy it’s no wonder no one believes them.
It’s almost as if the CIA and 34 other agencies who killed Kennedy just let the hobbyists write their books until the country lost interest.
Very interesting. Ruby’s letter to his brother is mind blowing. It sounds delusional and psychotic but we must keep in mind that this level of delusion and psychosis for Jews is kind of normal when it comes to the preservation of Jewish people. When was it written?
A theory that Mossad actually was using Cubans has some legs. However it is possible that Oswald was a patsy and did not shoot anybody but wad involved. Then killing him was imperative for the plotters to make an assassin out of him. It is hard to believe that plotters would depend on one guy who decides to do it w/o a good escape plan. We will not solve the problem of one or many shooters within the realm of qui bono and alternative scenarios. But we need to test some of these scenarios to see how possibly Ruby and Mossad were connected to the assassination.
Do you have something on Ruby meeting a journalist from Israel before killing Oswald and a possible connection to Yitzhak Rabin’s presence in Dallas.
Piper, I think did not know about (1. Ruby’s letter, (2) Mark Felt was behind the Deep Throat, (3) that Rabin was in Dallas.
Keep in mind you are dealing with a senior citizen who does not have all the cards in the deck left to play. He often does not know what he argues for or against but he likes to argue anyway. He does not realize that he casts himself in the role of a troll. Wiz of Oz is another one.
Thanks for the copy of Atlanta Jewish Time oped calling for the assassination of President of the US on account of him being bad for Israel.
Yet another arrogant, know-it-all peckerhead mounts the Bullshit Soapbox. Ain’t a one of you Internet kitchen knights knows jackshit — of conspiracies, plots, or CIA intrigue. I have not seen such an assemblage of trumpeting blowhards blatting wild presumption since DB Cooper collected his $200K.
You sure think highly of yourself don’t you? 55 years and 2,000 books later you know all the answers; although you can’t name one person or 10 persons who did the shooting or organized the killing.
It’s just CIA CIA and 35 other police departments including the entire Dallas PD. And how many motives are there? 10?20?30?
You don’t even know what municipal law is do you??? It’s city town and village ordinances. According to its charter CIA is not supposed to do anything at all in the United States.
Murders of scores of influential dissenters including but not limited to a US head of state and a UN Secretary-General. Domestic mass murders including Oklahoma City, the WTC, and Boston. All blatant insults to your intelligence, with gimpy fake investigations or half-assed corny frame-ups sagging over like Clouseau’s inflatable parrot, lamer every day. And nobody in authority gives a shit about the overwhelming evidence you stuff in through their transoms.
Now you could keep beavering away at your endless succession of whodunits like a syndicated Angela Lansbury carcass on TV. Or you could step back and think – hm. Forest, trees, you know.
One government organization has been granted the power to commit crimes and declare them state secrets. But somehow nobody ever thinks to suggest, Hey, how about we take away CIA’s get-out-of-jail-free-card, and see if this shit dies down to a dull roar?
Now this is not some genius brainwave nobody ever thought of. The entire outside world has been telling us this for more than a decade. The US government really, really, does not want to hear it. When the US shoehorned Bolton into the UN with a recess appointment, he had one job. Know what it was? He constipated the UN Summit Outcome with 700 amendments, just to keep the word impunity out of the touchy parts. No Stalinist Soviet delegate ever was a bigger asshole. Gee, ya think maybe the whole frickin world is onto something?
So you decide. Up to you. The next president can accede to the Rome Statute with a quick concurrent resolution (and don’t give me this Senate shit – What do think fast track is?) That commits the government to prosecute or extradite CIA criminals. Or, we can wait till CIA loses their war with the SCO and Russia hangs Gina Haspel’s droopy ass, plus all of Washington, DC.
” because even today we are wondering which of JFK’s policies prompted his assassination!”
Just because “we” are still wondering doesn’t mean a potential target of the message failed to get it.
That logic is faulty.
*If* the assassination can be seen as a “message” at all, clearly the perps didn’t give a flying F about what the public thought. And this has continued for the past 50 years, as large portions of the public have demanded a new investigation, but basically none has taken place. So the unintentional message has actually been read loud and clear by the American and world public: this event involved some element(s) of the deep state who don’t have to care what the public thinks. They do their own thing!
The same message, actually, was beamed to future presidents: the Deep State was in charge, so don’t fuck around and think about leaving the reservation. Clear message there!
There are people still alive who know who was responsible for the assassination. They have learned the lesson that you keep your mouth shut if you want to live long. Another class of the people who know who ordered and planned the assassination are the lanner(s) themselves. These people have heard the message that you *can* get away with murder of a president. It was part of their pre-Dallas skill set was knowledge of how to do t his and confidence that they could bring it off the assassination and the cover-up.
Actually, the Assassination is kind of like the mystery on the Orient Express. There were so many possible perps with credible motivations. In the end, it turns out they were all involved. It as a—wait for it!—conspiracy!! think there were multiple motivations and parties involved in the killing of Kennedy. It was a conspiracy that possibly involved hundreds of people, but many of them not knowing what they were a part of. So, a major opeational challenge. Someone out there was up to setting all of the pieces in place. Who had this ability? What type of person or entity? Figuring out how all the parts were related operationally is the challenge for investigators.
One element of the value of Ron’s essay is his attempt to parse the significance of the failure to conduct a real investigation to identifying the actual perpetrators. This point is a significant piece of the puzzle.
As for the suggested perps as citizens or affiliates of the State of Israel, the assassination was probably a graduate-level challenge but one for which they had been practicing and preparing for years, in both a theoretical and a practical sense, so that they became ever more expert. On to the next: 9/11 . From Lansky to Silverstein . . .
Oops! Anti-semitism alert!!!!
If you ever had any law enforcement experience you would know that the fact that a suspect says he dindu nuffin musa been some other dude doesn’t mean the suspect is innocent.
Why this defense of Oswald? Do you identify with this weirdo loser who couldn’t hold a job? The loser who had to depend on the Paines to pay for his wife’s welfare fee for childbirth at the county hospital? I mean, it’s one thing to have a baby at the county hospital. But not even to have the sliding scale fee charged people on welfare?
And then he shot a police officer in full sight of 3 witnesses just feet away. Some conspirator.
Oswald killed Kennedy and Tippit (sp?) and the paraffin test(?) didn’t show the nitrogen?
Is a negative result likely after two killings?
All the forensics in the world won’t help if there is no suspect that can be charged.
And 55 years later the only suspects were Oswald who’s dead and Clay Shaw who was only charged with conspiracy because Ferrie died and was found innocent and exonerated in less than an hour.
So you believe Castro’s statement? It’s my personal opinion that Castro had nothing to do with Kennedy’s murder.
But I don’t base my belief on anything Castro said. You’ve never heard of objectivity have you?
One last tidbit. There are still some people around today who may have insight into the JFK incident. I guess we could make a list and have someone go around and ask them for their take on the matter. One last chance to get their views on the record before they pass on.
Henry Kissinger
G. Gorden Liddy
Patrick Buchanan
Anybody else?
Ah, that explains everything. Anon’s a washout cop! Who else could possibly be stupid enough not to know what municipal law is? Only some guy on a featherbedded white-man’s welfare cop job who passed his Wonderlic test with flying colors. Safely under 104 IQ.
President Carter and his CIA head Turner fired more than 800 CIA agents from the operations division which does the dirty work.
Yet no one tried to kill Carter and Turner although Carter and Turner actually destroyed the operations division.
If CIA is as powerful as you claim, they would have seen to it that JFK was not re elected in November 1964. It was the Illinois electoral votes that won the presidency for Kennedy. And there was massive fraud in favor of Kennedy in crooked corrupt Chicago.
Today’s media is insanely anti Trump but his voters still approve of him and many who didn’t vote for Trump are turned off by the insane anti Trump media.
There was a similar situation when Kennedy was president. The media was insanely pro Kennedy. But the Kennedy worship didn’t change the mind of those who voted against Kennedy. And the ridiculous Kennedy worship was beginning to turn a lot of Democrats away from Kennedy.
The intellectual wing of the Democrat party such as Eleanor Roosevelt, Adlai Stevenson, Fulbright never liked Kennedy and didn’t want him nominated
The then powerful labor wing of the Democrats endured 10 years of brother Robert investigating corruption in the unions and was turning against Kennedy. The White southerners were turning against the Democrats as well.
There were a lot of democrats turning against Kennedy. Some claimed that pushing Jackie into the spotlight was to make up for JFKs weaknesses and to hide his medical condition and dependence on steroids, amphetamines and strong pain killers?
Why not wait a few months and help the anti Kennedy Democrats and the republican candidate in the 1964 election?
That scenario makes a lot more sense than a murder that was never solved and just lead to more Life of Saint John the Savior and Miracle Worker books
Better a 100 IQ than a 70 IQ like yours. One of the biggest problems the Development Disabled like you have is that they will believe anything they are told.
I always heard the Kennedy hobbyists were a lot of lunatics.. These comments confirm it. No real suspects, just ridiculous wanking over autopsy photos
The Soviets, who surely had some hard-headed KGB analysts, followed the same logic. Thus according to a memo from FBI Director Edgar J. Hoover to President Johnson’s office, the Soviets believed that the assassination was the result of:
Moreover, according to this informant, the Soviets:
So the Commies got the intended message: Kennedy was killed because he was soft on Communism. And although Kennedy had failed the test of leadership, American leadership consisted in more than one man, and thus the poor judgement of of a weak president would not be allowed to prevail.
You don’t need to bother with the opinions of the likes of Henry Kissinger, people that is, who would lie to you as readily as they would tell the truth if it suited their argument.
Just pay attention to the eye-witness testimony of the doctors and surgeons who attended on dying President at Parkland Hospital. There you have proof that the Warren Commission report was a cover up. After that, you just have to use a bit of imagination and you come to the same conclusion as did the Soviets, who recognized the assassination for what it was: a coup d’état, against a weak president who was soft on Communism.
That is why it is never definitively shown that a president slept with someone other than their wife. The people he had to arrange his trysts were trusted and for good reason.
Does being a marine qualify him as a loser? From what I hear from a lot of commentators it makes you at least capable of pulling off a pretty impressive feat with a gun. No one is identifying with this guy. That is clearly projection on your part. Someone stating that it is implausible that he pulled this off on his own and was not part of a conspiracy is not defending Oswald. One could ask you the question why proposing the phony lone nut over the obvious conspiracy?
George Bush sr.
I agree although I personally differ on one point. It is not that they are all in on it, but that they all could have been and had sufficient motive. That makes them all suspects, which means they all close ranks on a false narrative after the fact so long as it leads away from them. They also all benefit. I made a similar point to a comment about Johnson. He would have helped cover up just because he was such a prime suspect himself. Whatever he does he needs to side with the powers who have the ability to point people in the wrong direction. Was he in on it? Maybe. Would he help cover it up? Absolutely.
Except that their cover story led men being arrested, and photographed.
And Edward Lansdale managed to get in the photo call too
Not only booked but photographed by newsmen in the street and recognised as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_tramps#Other_allegations:_Charles_Harrelson,_Charles_Rogers,_and_Chauncey_Holt or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_tramps#Early_allegations:_E._Howard_Hunt_and_Frank_Sturgis
They don’t look all that well dressed, and they are not even trying to hide their faces. But considering how incompetent Hunt was that is perhaps not surprising.
Nothing has been disproven. Only one thing has been proven; Jack Ruby shot and killed Oswald
It’s good that the shooting happened on a Sunday morning when millions of people were watching the murder on TV.
Otherwise all the Kennedy hobbiest lunatics would be writing books and ranting on the internet that Ruby did not kill Oswald.
Time for Part III. This thread is starting to smell like one of Anon’s Miller High Life burps.
https://whowhatwhy.org/2016/02/16/the-full-story-of-the-sirhan-sirhan-parole-hearing/
A lot of the hobbiest lunatics don’t know the difference between government agencies or federal and state law.
It’s just a big conspiracy against their childhood hero JFK.
Seems to me that the soviets got it partly right. Kennedy was weak on a cold war. It was the communist system that was weak. Maybe he realized this maybe not. Most of the soviet military might was faked but they did have the bomb. They also got it right that Oswald was no commie.
Kennedy was always presented as a cold warrior. Most considered him very anti communist as was every President from Truman to Regean and Bush until the end of Soviet rule over Europe in 1990.
Kennedy “won” the 1960 election by promising to build more missiles than Russia and claiming the Republicans were soft in Russia.
Maybe the 35 government agencies that conspired to kill him had it on tape that Kennedy was secretly pro communist.
I guess I take your point.
Although if one wasn’t the actual perp, how would one recognize the “false narrative” as false?
Of course, in this case the official narrative is so absurd that it is obvious that it is a false narrative.
And therefore, one would think, that much harder to maintain . . .
Actually, though, I do think that in a sense they were “all” in on it. That is, not “all” people iwth an ax to grind with Kennedy, but a few pivotal figures who could count on silent support from many other very influential people who would be better off if that “son of a bitch” Jack Kennedy were removed from the earth.
1. Because the interests of the prime suspects who have identifiable motivation overlap in so many ways. This I feel is the value of Douglass’s book, JFK and the Unspeakable: he maps out the big picture following the end of WW2, which really wasn’t that far in the past. And in so doing he shows how many of the threads of hatred of Kennedy actually were intertwined. This makes it harder to figure out who is “the single plotter,” but easier to imagine the outlines of a broader conspiracy where a few pivotal players know that others, even if not actively involved, will be delighted if the murder is pulled off and will help in any cover-up.
2. Because it seems credible and likely to me that different players (Texas pols/CIA/French mob/Israel) were active on different layers of the event, depending on their area of expertise and control. For just one example, I would think that whoever organized and put in place the actual shooters probably was not the same person who was able to order that the corpse be spirited away for a “makeover” before the official autopsy. There has to have been someone within the Dallas Police Department who was getting orders from someone, but would that DP guy have known the actual outlines of the whole conspiracy and who is in the next layer or two layers above? I bet the answer is no. There had to be a mastermind of some kind coordinating the field maneuvers, even if that entity was not the origin of the plot. But I bet the thing was set up with a cell structure that would allow deniability for the grunts on the ground.
I think Ron is right: this thing wasn’t put together by a bunch mob rubes who could maybe organize a simple ambush of an enemy, but not such a complex operation as this. The cover-up and competence to monitor potential witnesses and, over a multi-year time span, to eliminate them suddenly when it became necessary seems to me like another significant piece of evidence. Who had this capability, combining both surveillance or humint on hundreds of individuals with the competence to administer accidental death quickly via “heart attack” etc.?
There’s more than one way to skin a cat, and of course Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter were entirely different breeds of cat, so to say.
Certainly, Pres. Carter wasn’t planning on removing VP Mondale from his ticket in ’80, nor did he have the twin scandals of Bobby Baker and Billy Sol Estes hanging around his neck.
https://nostalgia049.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/lbjs-options-assassinate-jfk-or-go-to-prison/
No need for bullets when you’ve got Reagan, Thatcher, and Bush:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-iranian-hostage-crisis-a-cia-covert-op/5324385
Think about this way. They did not have a know know how to pull it off. You need a good control of media. While killing people has been practiced for thousands of years. Torah can be considered as a text book manual for how to kill people. It is much easier to kill you than to plant a body of a dead woman or live young boy in your bed.
The King is Dead Long Live the King.
Does the secret service have jurisdiction over, and responsibility for a dead president? It’s job is to protect the president, his family and other officials.
Johnson was president the minute Kennedy died.
I’d say the Admiral, not the secret service was in charge of a Navy building and Navy personnel.
The secret service are shits. They rampage into a city, close down major streets for 24 hours with no notice what so ever leaving thousands stranded.
They close down half the airport with no notice.
They didn’t even notify city police when Obama came to Los Angeles the first 2 times. They wanted to arrest a woman I know who drove out of her own garage and driveway onto the street in front of her house because they had closed it without notice the night before. She called the BH police who rescued her.
Even though Los Angeles is an Obama worshipping city, the Mayor and council critters managed to force the secret service to give us a few days notice after the first 2 fiascos.
First time it happened we assumed it was an earthquake or some other horrible event.
Some people never got home that night. There are hundreds of city buses that go to the main train station and people take the train to their suburban homes. Those commuter trains usually stop
at 8 and the buses weren’t allowed to move till Obama was on his flight home.
Bus drivers were happy because they got lots of overtime hours.
Well it surprised me, but:-
Angleton was chief of CIA Counterintelligence from 1954 to 1975.
This is somewhat tangential to the danger that Robert Kennedy would pose to plotters after the Assassination of JFK, but one might wonder how the conspiracy inside the CIA trying to feel out potential allies could establish its bona fides as authentic CIA or Israeli and not b a KGB operation to assassinate the President of the United States of America by using the country’s own agencies. Angleton was far from the only one in the CIA who thought that there were Soviet agents at the highest levels.
Even if presented as a home grown Texas patriot/gangster coup, how could anyone in the CIA be sure that the conspiracy he was joining was not a leveraged coup by Soviet intelligence. Jews may trust Jews, but even the ones on Kennedy’s staff (assuming for the sake of argument they had loyalty to the Jewish state) would have no way of knowing if they were approached to participate in a Mossad operation that they were not being duped and co-opted by an American or Israeli who was really working for the KGB. Many Soviet spies in the US were Jewish, so an even an Israeli would not be beyond suspicion.
Anyway, Robert Kennedy involved himself far more in the CIA’s counter- intelligence than his official duties would lead one to expect. This was especially true of the CIA subversion/ terrorism/ assassination attempts, and he knew the leading personalities in the CIA ZR/rifle assassination resource or Mongoose AKA Cuban Project. Planning the assassination of Cuban leaders including Castro was a part of that plan. .
Peter Janney’ s book “Mary’s Mosaic” indicates that it was the CIA that was responsible for the murder of Mary Pinchot Meyer, one of those witnesses. Since the author was the son of a high CIA official, whom he accuses of being involved in the murder, and also knew such CIA figure as Cord Meyer and James Jesus Angleton, as well as Mary Meyer herself, I am inclined to believe him.
Oh my God crazier and crazier.
So you claim that 12 months before the 1980 election the CIA Georgr Bush 1 and Ronald Regean convinced the Iranian revolutionaries to seize the American embassy and hold the staff hostage for more than a year.
I thought the original conspiracy theory was that Regean and Bush didn’t conspire with Iran until October 1980 11 months after the embassy was seized.
You people are unbelievable
Aren’t you one of the fools who claim that Oswald hadn’t the skills to shoot Kennedy?
Check Bob Woodward “State of Denial”. He interviewed Prince Bandar about his visit to Austin in 1997.
https://books.google.com/books?id=FHn-M8fZ96MC&pg=PT626&lpg=PT626&dq=george+W+bush+prince+bandar+1997&source=bl&ots=9XAbgg6gNQ&sig=xDQnIBal2JpK5SWhvZJ0t2s–jw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwje47C5nvfbAhXIxYMKHTUICjk4ChDoAQhAMAQ#v=onepage&q=george%20W%20bush%20prince%20bandar%201997&f=false
Kids watch TV and Netflix and use the internet. There are dozens of documentaries about mysteries and conspiracies. I like the one that claims there’s no gold in Fort Knox.
Maybe the CIA stole the gold and killed Kennedy because he found out
True, I believe he did not. My point exactly. Does not mean I am defending him.
I agree with this. There were plenty of people involved, and the only thing most of them would have to talk about is something vague like they were told to change something on a medical report. They were told to stand in a window, they were told to say they saw something, they were told to carry a package to work, they saw Oswald here or there. After the fact they would possibly suspect that something they did may have had some impact but they would not have had anything all that remarkable to tell anyone about.
The press knew all about Kennedy’s willing sex slave interns. None of it came out because the Kennedy’s aids knew all about the press corps sexual peccadillo’s , and they would have been reprisals in kind. She was from behind the Iron Curtain which made it more dangerous that the countless others including other men’s wives he had as pres, but women did not rat on Kennedy, and without her testimony they had just another rumour . It’s like Bill Cosby, reporter know their audience people don’t really want to hear about their hero being a shit.
There is that book Secret Coup arguing that Watergate was actually to do with the risque past of John Dean’s wife. Liddy knows more than anyone and he believes if and Dean failed to win a civil case against Liddy. The Watergate bugs were not in a room used by senior democrats for strategy , they were on the phone of a minor functionary who may have been involved in arranging female escorts. Kennedy might have been able to get down after the first shots but he was in a back brace in Dallas (possibly due to him over exerting himself at a ranch pool party with a gaggle of German airline stews, not long before).
Trivial things and motives can have big consequences. I think that is a big reason why people find it difficult to believe that a twerp like Oswald could really smoke Kennedy without something much bigger behind the scenes.
That Bilko episode in which to get rid of a thug in the unit he pretends to be plotting to rob Fort Knox could have been “We are going to kill the president, you want in?”. Hunt said it happened to him.
Disagree.
It was actually the plot run by top Illuminati cabal, mostly Ashkenazi Jews, with some lizard bloodline here and there. They used Mossad which then gave orders to CIA and KGB to steal the gold.
It’s now in a secret storage in Israel.
Hess knew about it and that’s why he was kept in prison for so long and later murdered by Shin Bet operatives.
A rogue FBI agent compiled the story and shared it with Naval Intelligence fellow. The fellow was on “Liberty” and that’s why the ship was bombed by IAF.
One copy of the manuscript was in Building 7 and that’s why it was brought down my termite put there by Mossad working together with Delta Force. Other two buildings were brought down just to throw off the potential investigation.
Assange was also on that and that’s why he is in trouble.
A couple of things are still missing in all that, but I am working on it.
The conspiracy started around 10 000 years ago and has some very bad plans for human race in not so distant future. That’s why we must unravel it and inform the people.
I’l continue when get back from my G.P. Run out of meds.
More to follow tomorrow.
I just read Farewell America on the internet White print on a navy background. I hate that.
The book was nothing but a generalized diatribe against America.
JFK instituted affirmative action federal jobs and government contracts fir blacks so the evil White racists killed Him
Kennedy was going to make Peace on Earth with Cuba Russia and China do the anti communist evil Americans killed him.
Robert Kennedy re created himself from the anti labor union anti communist who worked for Joe McCarthy exposing communists to a 60s 70s radical. He already had one victim group the blacks. He planned on more affirmative action He made Hispanic farm worker activist Cesear Chavez famous. He was going to stop the war in Vietnam. He was going to desegregate the schools so black kids would be as intelligent and educated as Whites.
That was RFKs platform. He commissioned that book to represent America as evil racist right wing
Then Saint Robert the Redeemer would become president, wave his magic wand and Saint Robert would uplift the blacks and farm workers and institute Peace On Earth forever and ever amen
But then he was martyred.
Read the book. It’s online It’s just typical 196os left wing crap.
On a more serious…hehe…note, it was me I am afraid.
I stick to it, depending on a timeframe.
Now, we don’t know the actual timeframe so, the point is moot.
Bang/start stopwatch…..bang…..bang/stop stopwatch.
3 shots within 7 seconds..no way.
3 shots within 9 seconds..doable.
3 shots within 12 seconds……easy.
That rifle, that angle, that distance, that target.
C’mon…Americans….of all people at least you can test it with ease. A beauty of the 2nd.
I believe some people tried and failed.Seven seconds fail I mean.
So why did they not eliminate Kennedy by the same heart attack method? He got non medical amphetamine injections from Dr Feelgood. His Addison’s disease required he take cortisol to keep him alive; even so his health was poor. Easiest way to kill a junkie is …
You must still believe in Santa Claus.
You must be one of those women who poured over all the pictures and articles about Jackie, Ethel Joan and Rose in all those magazines glorifying them.
Well, Jackie was the Princess Dianna of her era, from 1955 till the day she died.
I think that deserves a bit more attention here. We all know that LBJ was sleazy and ruthless, but he does seem to have had qualms about outright murder. After the JFK assassination he would deliberately infuriate RFK with out-loud musing that it was divine retribution for the murder of Diem. (In the clip above he accepts responsibility with a collective “we,” but he doesn’t seem very happy about it.) And he was also not a supporter of the various plots against Castro, which he memorably compared to Murder Inc.
That “treason” poster is also remarkable for never mentioning South Vietnam. You would think there would hardly have been a better example of “betraying our friends” than the murder of an allied leader, but that is ignored and instead references are made to now-forgotten controversies about Portugal and the short-lived Republic of Katanga.
Eisenhower. The deep state was divided in its loyalty. Some refused to accept Kennedy was legally elected. They claimed the 22nd amendment was not valid. Johnson was Eisenhower’s plan B for remaining in power.
I heard this kind of talk along with the words “treason” and “communist” a lot in 1962-63. One CIA employee claimed that evolution was a communist propaganda, and when I suggested to him that Kennedy probably believed in evolution he promised he would find out. If Kennedy believed in evolution, then he was a communist, and they would “do something” about it.
I asked him what they going to do, and he said “With fifty armed men on drugs, we can change the government.”
Possibly the 50 armed men on drugs could have been Eisenhower’s secret service detail which was equal in size to Kennedy’s.
This CIA employee drugged me many times, starting at the age of 11. His favorite drug was scopolamine. Now scopolamine is commonly prescribed for seasickness, but it has many uses. It induces amnesia. It can also put people into a zombie-like state where they will do whatever they are told and not remember it later. It is hard to believe how dangerous this drug is unless you have experienced it.
This man’s picture is in Piper’s book. His alias in Dallas was Guy Bannister.
“As the Jews cement power…”
So the Jews are just now cementing power? So how were they able 55 years ago to swoop into Dallas, Texas, kill the POTUS without being seen? LOL.
“You must be one of those women who poured over all the pictures and articles about Jackie, Ethel Joan and Rose in all those magazines glorifying them.”
I was in a Barnes and Noble today and the magazine racks had new Special Issues with those very pictures and articles.
So, as Ron argued in comment 226, look for those who couldn’t afford to wait until November 1964.
This suggests that the CIA were not running the conspiracy. However, they would have helped with the cover-up, if only to avoid the charge that they didn’t detect and thwart the plot.
It is also possible that they became aware of a plot, and did not act to prevent it, because they wanted it to succeed. Like the Mossad agents who were tracking Al Qaeda in the US and were seen celebrating on 9/11.
Odd that you should make this comment on an article that discusses real suspects who are usually overlooked.
RFK had privately told the Soviets the same thing.
I just thought to look up victim James Tague on Wikipedia.org– where I learned that he was a fellow Hoosier, by birth, and also a fellow Purdue Boilermaker (albeit he dropped out to join the Air Force)! This is what Wikipedia.org claims in its introduction: “Tague received a minor wound to his right cheek immediately prior to the assassination, caused by tiny pieces of concrete debris from a street curb that was struck by fragments from the bullet that killed Kennedy.” In the nearly thirty years in which I have studied the JFK assassination, avocationally, I cannot recall having encountered this claim before my just reading it on Wikipedia.org. The entire reason for Arlen Specter’s infamous “Single-Bullet Theory” was to account for the fact that one of the three bullets alleged to have been fired by the “lone nut” had missed its target altogether, and collaterally wounded Mr. Tague by its defacing of the curb along the south side of Elm Street. The claim also is internally inconsistent, of course, by claiming that Tague was wounded “immediately prior to the assassination,” while also claiming that his wound was caused by “fragments from the bullet that killed Kennedy.”
There were 3 shots within 12 seconds from the TSBR. Life Magazine muddied the waters by claiming that the Zapruder film covered the whole of the shooting, but in fact it omitted the first shot (which missed).
Though of course there may have been other shooters…
I absolutely agree re Mary Pinchot Meyer (and Douglass names so many o thers who checked out a day or so before they were supposed to provide new info). I havne’t read Janney’s book but watched a detailed documentary on the murder and its background and also read up on Cord Meyer, the Ben Bradlee connection, the Angleton connection. All extremely suspicious and the Bradlee involvement can’t help but set Watergate antennae twitching. Can anyone imagine that Mary’s sister and her husband gave no thought to the possible reasons why Mary had been eliminated???
I have read Russ Baker’s Family of Secrets and find it convincing concerning a Bush involvement in Dallas. But what would have been the motivation for Bush? The Bushes were more friendly to the Arabs than to Israel, I believe. Would Bush be involved purely as a CIA man with no other motivation other than being a company man? Would Bush have known about the elements that are being discussed on this thread (and others), namely, the likely involvement of the Israelis, the mob (as executioners), the Texas pols (who probably controlled teh Dallas Police). Was Bush a Navy man? Would Bush have had any interest in seeing Johnson become president? Would there be a Vietnam motivation such a desire to see the American involvement continue and not be wound down? That doesn’t seem like a sufficient motivation for Bush. Maybe Baker discusses this and I have forgotten what he said about this.
But why would Curtis Lemay obey orders of the CIA killers?
Well, in that case no problem with Oswald being the single shooter.
True.
I just don’t believe that.
Summary of my own:
Oswald was a CIA guy.
Some people within CIA knew he was going to try to assassinate the President. That qualifies as collusion and, probably, even as a conspiracy. Don’t know.
After the fact they did their best to cover up their knowledge.
The rest is incompetence and power play.
Who cares.
Digging into/around that event has nothing to do with the event itself.
Motives, agendas…actually needs….are something else.
Etc….etc……
Feels almost as….religion. US brand of it.
No wonder.
Yes. Participants here are loonies — conspiracy theorists. They will take anything — anything at all — to absurd, demented lengths, in pursuit of extremes of wild imagination. It is amusing for the sane to read — until nausea sets in.
You have probably noticed that most posts are from people who do not comment much on other topics. 2000 comments on this insanity/inanity, all told, each one nuttier than the previous. I think Unz did this for kicks.
What difference did it make to Bush? If Johnson had not become President, JFK, surely a more popular Democrat, would have been re-elected, which would not have been in anyway to be preferred by a Republican.
But in the event, he proved not to be. To repeat myself:
By failing to deliver, he proved himself to be, not only soft on Communism, but a double-crosser, who lied his way to the Presidency. Two reasons to eliminate the SOB.
What’s ARRB?
When the Soviets said Kennedy was the victim of a right wing coup, they were right.
Whether Kennedy’s decisions on Cuban matters and Vietnam, judged by his critics to be evidence of weakness, is open to eternal debate.
Vietnam was certainly no great victory for America. However, it cost the Commies something as well as the Americans. The Vietnamese killed a lot of Americans and brought down a lot of American planes, all with bullets and planes supplied by the Soviets or China. Moreover, the huge American investment in Vietnam signaled to the Communists that America would not ignore Communist aggression wherever it occurred. That may have been a significant deterrent to Communist “adventurism”.
Photo evidence will never be conclusive — at least in a public debate. However much the tramps look like Watergate burglars Hunt and Sturgis, there will be those who say there is no real resemblance. And however unlike Hunt and Sturgis the tramps appear to be, there will be those who say they are a spitting likeness. More significant, therefore, is E. Howard Hunt’s deathbed confession where he appears to admit involvement in the assassination. I am inclined to believe him, because that provides a plausible basis both for the Watergate burglary and Hunt’s role in that burglary.
I just got an idea re Bush Senior.
Oil Depletion Allowance.
Robert Bryce’s “Cronies: Oil, the BUshes, and the Rise of Texas, America’s Superstate” is worth a careful read, as he chronicles the transfer of Bush from Connecticut to Texas. “Heavily documented history of the growth of power of long-entwined families and firms such as the Bushes, the Bakers, the Hunts, and Halliburton.”
Another description of the book:
Bryce “tak[es] on the state of Texas and its enormous political influence over American life, from oil and gas to business to foreign policy. Bryce traces the network of Texas “cronies” that he says helped bring Lyndon Johnson and both Bushes to power in the White House.”
The same “cronies” might have had a hand in getting rid of JFK.
Bryce describes how the first order of business for any Texas pol, regardless of party, was the protection, in Washington, of the Oil Depletion Allowance. A quick search for “oil depletion allowance” leads to a quote from Phil Nelson, that JFK wanted to eliminate the ODA. More info on that is in the Spartacus article cited below.
Bush’s position as a Texas oil man, plus his CIA credentials, plus his planned political role would put him on the same side as Johnson if part of the plus of sending Johnson to Washington would have been to protect the ODA—which Johnson had been doing all along—and to protect other big financial interests in Texas.
As recounted by Bryce, part of Bush’s brief in his political move from Connecticut to Texas was that he was tasked by the party with “turning” the state from being Dem Party territory to being a Republican stronghold. Thus, George Bush Senior was a political operative as well as CIA intelligence operative and in bed with oil interests. It is quite possible that the reason Bush went into the oil business in Texas was to create a good cover for his real political goals. Quite possibly getting Johnson out of Texas and in Washington would be good for Texas oilmen and good for the Republican Party’s designs on Texas. In this scenario, Bush’s CIA role would be subservient to a larger political strategy. In other words, he would be instrumentalizing himself as a CIA asset in service to the Republican Party and the party’s long-term plan for America. If there is anything to this, then Nixon would surely have had some idea of the party’s plans for Texas.
This essay (http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKoildepletion.htm) on the ODA and centrality of the tax breaks that made the oilmen rich as Croesus lists all the names of the parade of pols who protected the oil money tree in Texas. Weren’t man;y of these in the group that, according to LBJ’s mistress, gathered for a meeting at I think Murchison’s ranch the night before the assassination? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gx6E5JgO5E)
Johnson “was always in the pay of the oil industry.” The industry that Bush had entered. This background might provide a motivation for Bush to provide CIA support to the plot hatched in Texas. This would meet the “bipartisan” standard for the removal of JFK.
According to this account, the Texas plotters were already deft in the art of setting up commissions that they could control: “Senators called for an investigation into the lobbying of the oil industry by Thomas Hennings, the chairman of the subcommittee on Privileges and Elections. Johnson was unwilling to allow a senator not under his control to look into the matter. Instead he set up a select committee chaired by Walter F. George of Georgia, a member of the Southern Caucus. Johnson had again exposed himself as being in the pay of the oil industry.”
Two years into his presidency, Kennedy wanted to do away with the oil depletion allowance: “On 17th January, 1963, President Kennedy presented his proposals for tax reform. This included relieving the tax burdens of low-income and elderly citizens. Kennedy also claimed he wanted to remove special privileges and loopholes. He even said he wanted to do away with the oil depletion allowance. It is estimated that the proposed removal of the oil depletion allowance would result in a loss of around $300 million a year to Texas oilmen.
After the assassination of Kennedy, President Lyndon B. Johnson dropped the government plans to remove the oil depletion allowance. Richard Nixon followed his example and it was not until the arrival of Jimmy Carter that the oil depletion allowance was removed.”
Instead, JFK was done away with. Strangely (dog that didn’t bark?) there is no mention of George Bush in this account.
I hope others on this thread will read and assess the Spartacus document in light of the Texas original of the plot. It seems to me to lend weight to both the theory of a Texas origin of the plot, a strong motivation for the plot (also, the fact that the Texans surely believed that Johnson should have gotten the 1960 nomination all along), and suggest a possible role for George Bush and explanation for his being in Dallas. Maybe as a Texas oilman he stumbled on the plot, like the looks of it, but never officially came on board, but just decided to travel to Dallas unofficially to keep his thumb on the pulse of what was going on and was wearing only his oilman hat, not his CIA hat. Or, perhaps he was wearing his CIA hat and was a CIA liaison with the Texas faction.
Another neat parallel between Dallas and 9/11 is that in both cases the Big Event was partially designed to sideline investigations or misdirect attention away from major crimes that had already been committed (the Bobby Baker scandal and the Pentagon’s mislaying multi trillions of dollars). At the same time, even more neatly, the Big Event also resulted in the destruction of the evidence needed to solve the Big Event crime itself (tampering with JFK’s head wounds and other evidence; the destruction of Building 7, which alleged contained documents relating to not only the Pentagon debacle but I think a number of other related investigations and possibly some Silverstein-related material).
Don’t say.
Not so sure about that.
I believe that the “event” just doesn’t feel completed and he is just trying to make the full sense of it. As some of posters are.
The problem is that the topic tends to attract ……certain….profiles.
Some of them quite……interesting.
Thanks. If Wikipedia is so far off the pace it suggests that interest in the JFK assassination is in severe decline. And if that is right it is surely OK for 85 year old witnesses to come clean without worrying that James Jesus Angleton’s Israeli godson’s ex Mossad grandson will knock off his family
I haven’t tuned into this conversation but I would agree that sex scandal wouldn’t have been reliable enough because there was so much sex scandal involving Kennedy being discussed around Washington that one could only conclude that maybe nobody cared and that it could never be made a big deal of.
You’re right that Kennedy let the Soviet’s run over him. But the millions who worshipped him and his family believed he was a crusader against communism.
I’m confused. What does the watergate burglary have to do with the Kennedy murder?
Robert Kennedy jr wants to run for president in 2020. The 90 year old Kennedy PR machine is gearing up for that.
That’s why all the interest in the Kennedys and the memories of Saints John and Robert, martyred before they could save the world.
Gag
Excellent post you’ve convinced me that the lizard Illuminati did it.
I agree. Most of the more rational books mention the back brace. The more lunatic books and their fans ignore the back brace and focus on CIA FBI uniformed Dallas PD snipers.
Phillips Andover, Yale and Harvard MBA Bush is no dummy despite what the demo rats claim.
Assassination Records Review Board.
My My My you seem to have a very big dog in this fight,I wonder why you attack everyone who has a different point of view,anyone who thinks that the shinning light on the hill would’nt stoop to killing the president seeing big business controls the country, and wars are very big business for the corporations and bankers that feed from…
You’ve previously stated pompously that you ‘do not have time to read Who Killed Kennedy books’. Given your stated ignorance and given that the sum total of your moronic contributions to both threads has been to spread misinformation, disinformation and facile crap, why don’t you just butt out and let those with legitimate points to make, on both sides, to discuss those?
Yet again, you betray your lack of knowledge of the subject with your claims relating to the Tippit killing. Your attempt to bait me is pathetic, as ever.
Castro made extremely cogent arguments why he would not have wanted JFK killed and also pointed out the likely suspects. I also believe Castro had nothing to do with it, based on evidence other than his personal statement.
Why the pathetic comment about ‘objectivity’?
Quite possibly nothing at all. But I had a theory, which I wrote about here:
Did Gerald Ford Blackmail US President Richard Nixon into Resigning Over Complicity in the JFK Assassination?
Castro did not want Kennedy killed.
Kennedy, under great risk to himself, had opened a secret unofficial back channel to Castro and wanted to normalize US relations with Cuba.
Ditto, Kennedy and Khrushchev.
You can read about the Castro back channel here (and elsewhere):
Simon Reid-Henry,
Fidel and Che: A Revolutionary Friendship. 2009.
The CIA operatives of 1963 are retired or dead. It is very unlikely that present-day operatives would feel motivated to kill, in order to preserve the (not particularly hallowed) memory of the organization half a century ago.
Mossad is a different matter – because, if somebody divulged credible evidence for the Piper hypothesis, it would impact present-day US-Israeli relations.
Reduced to hysterical insults now. As you’ve consistently displayed an utter lack of knowledge regarding the events, it’s probably not a surprise. Lunatic may be an appropriate epithet for people who believe in magic bullets ans shots from the rear that exit the back of a head.
55 years. 55 years during which, at absolutely no time, did it make any difference whatsoever whether or not there was a conspiracy.
It’s like Lincoln’s followers shrieking about Jeffersonian connivance in the election that made Burr Vice President.
Sheer, unvarnished lunacy.
Shit like “Montezuma was not the legitimate ruler of the Aztecs, so Mexico is not a sovereign country.”
Lunacy complicated by stupidity, if such is possible.
Impossible. Israel, through Israeli-American traitors and Mossad, DEFINES what “US-Israeli relations” are to be. The Congress, Presidency, Supreme Court, military, and federal government are owned and operated by Israel. Lock, stock, and barrel.
Now, is that all a bad thing? Maybe not. It keeps the US currency stable and competitive, despite a completely-hollow national economy. It provides Israeli-Americans with a low-cost labor supply, while providing Americans with Happy Meals and $35K vehicles worth $5K. The rich get richer, right? Existence will be bearable until such point in time as Israel has wrung the last 5-cent dollar out of American workers. By then Israel will hold the entire Middle East, and their attention will turn to doing the same thing to Europe.
Not my problem: I will have Roy Rogers’ roast beef and strawberry milkshakes until the day I die. Tough on you younger guys, but I’m told the lash becomes bearable, even unnoticed. Good boys get meaningful titles. [nelson laugh]
Hunt is supposed to by one of the three tramps arrested near the assassination just after it . At comment 424 everyone can see press photography of two of the tramps being escorted by police after they were arrested, and of all three tramps being released. They are not even trying to hide their faces, which are crystal clear –some covert operatives! Fletcher Prouty says Air Force Brigadier General Edward Lansdale is a passer-by in the first arrest photo; more like a red carpet photo call by show ponies than anyone practicing counter surveillance techniques
Israel had French Mirage jets in 1967. America could have given them better but didn’t.
What more land could they have taken and digested? The West Bank was their objective. Perhaps the more pertinent question is what Israel could do with the indigenous population of its actual territorial gains in 1967, Mere limited support against Egypt which had begun getting arms from Czechoslovakia, seen as a move toward being a client state of the Soviet Union.. Nothing to suggest a special holds over Johnson or him operating as a stooge of Israel at all in this.
Israel did not expel the bulk of West Bank Arabs when it conquered the West Bank in 1967. If Israel could go back and do 1967 over again it would expel the West bank Arabs and yet it didn’t. My reading of history is Israel did not dare expel the occupied territories’ Arabs, because it did not think the US under LBJ would go along with not go along with the Arabs being kicked across the river.
In the 1973 October War Nixon favoured Israel, no question about it. and the Western economies were never the same after the oil crisis the Arabs retaliated to US -Israel relationship. However Nixon did not expect the oil crises or the war that folowed it because Israel did not start that war. Only after the bruising 1973 war and damage to Western economies did America do something extraordinary for Israel; the Camp David Accords were the US buying off Egypt for Israel and thus freed of the Egyptian deterrent to Israel’s aggression, Israel promptly started attacking Lebanon. Carter was probably motivated by keeping the Egyptians from another war as client state of the Soviet Union, and stablising the energy crisis than helping Israel.
The big oppertunity israel had to make a clean sweep of future Arab population problem in the West Bank was in 1967 when LBJ was in power, and yet they didn’t dare. Not the most persuasive evidence that Israel had any wedge on LBJ’s Middle East policy decisions, is it?
Actually, it has made a huge difference.
You are the one who sounds like a lunatic.
I see it as the sacred duty of my generation, who remember the events of November 22, 1963, and their immediate aftermath—and who have the maturity and perspective to see the links between that day and the trajectory of the USA in the decades that followed—to do all in their power to understand the Dallas event.
I am finding these essays at UR, including the one by Laurence Guyenot, to be immensely valuable because people are pooling information, theories, and hypotheses and generating some new directions. That is my view. In the course of reaind the essays and the comments, I have been able to sharpen some of my own thoughts on the subject and to see some new combinations.
Specifically, the current state of my thinking is that the plot originated in Texas, with the Oil Combine, which was, however, also the Texas-based MIC in the form of companies such as Brown & Root. The Oil Combine has determined major aspects of our foreign policy for decades. It sent us to war in throughout the Middle East and thought nothing of deposing and murdering leaders who got in its way. This is the violent political culture of Texas (in Texas, party doesn’t really matter). And of Lyndon Johnson. He was the pawn of the Oil Combine and also, a fixer in DC for Brown & Root.
Check out Brown & Root and KBR/Halliburton on Wikipedia. The dots just scream to be connected.
These companies stood to make billions off the Vietnam War, and they did. They built all the military bases. They pioneered the privataization of military construction and procurement and shouldered aside the Army Corps of Engineers (see Bryce, “Cronies”). They owed Johnson a favor.
Just like in a Western, such as the Magnificent Seven, a few central figures are the core, and they gather more to their team as they progress, each new member having his own reason and his own specialty (Israel, Jewish Mob, Cuban malcontents). And in this case each major “team” member has grunts in the layers below who don’t know the big picture and are siloed. In the “Magnificent Seven” scenario, the core plotters were members of the Oil Combine and Texas MIC. The core of Texas’s power is the megabucks that flow to Texas oil barons from the Oil Depletion Allowance. They will kill to protect it. They wanted to get rid of Kennedy and put Johnson in place. The question cui bono is very easily answered. They all profit bigtime in $$$ and in influence, but Johnson and Co. control the ground, the Dallas Police, Jack Ruby, etc., as someone earlier commented. Possibly the Secret SErvice, although how this could occur is unclear to me.
Bush enters the picture as an oilman who is probably not really part of the Oil Combine—he is too new to the scene. He probably doesn’t have much of a local power base or influence (but wasn’t he Navy?). His connections are far away, in DC, where the CIA may be taking a “hands-off” approach, as they, too, would like Texas to do the dirty work. Bush gets wind of the plot and reports it to the CIA—or vice versa: someone in the CIA is already on the Texas team. Meanwhile, Bush has his own political agenda in Texas, gaining control of the state for the Republican Party, which the elimination of Johnson from Texas can only advance. He doesn’t give a shite about Kennedy or his program for the USA or anywhere else. Bush’s background is already war profiteering (cf. Prescott Bush/Nazis/Brown Bros Harriman) and making money from oil and international finance. So he brings in a few other CIA guys (3 tramps) to keep an eye on the Event so as to report back to CIA central. very likely the CIA is tasked with surveillance and monitoring of possible leaking and witnesses with getting rid of them one way or another.
So, that is my current hypothesis. I think that Ron, to get a deeper grasp of all of the elements, may have to read a few books that are not ostensibly about the assassination. I highly recommend Bryce’s Cronies. He sort of does for the political empire of Texas what Douglass does for the USA as a whole in JFK and the Unspeakable.
This territory may have been covered by Phil Nelson and Roger Stone—I haven’t read their books yet.
Well…..not quite.
There is a missing link there.
Let’s say that Oswald was the only shooter. I, personally, unless some new data come in, believe that.
Oswald, at the very minimum, had very close ties with CIA.
That means having, at least, a “contact”.
The “contact” was, at the very minimum, supposed to, as a part of his/her job/assignment, “monitor” Oswald and report his work (observations, even hints) to his/her superiors.
The “contact” must’ve been aware, even slightly, about Oswald’s intention and he/she did put that into the reports.
That is the key here.
True, the reports could’ve been simply chats, in person/persons,but, still, those people, especially management level, tended to write that down, somewhere. Even in some personal diary. Always.
So, I believe that a certain level of CIA management knew about Oswald intention.
The interesting questions would be:
Which level?
Was any action taken (say, inform FBI/local police/whatever)? If not, why?
If yes, follow that…..
Say, no action was taken because it was estimated those were all empty threats. Fine. Incompetence. Those people are paid to make correct estimates.
Or…..well….they didn’t want to stop that hoping that Oswald would succeed. That qualifies as collusion, even conspiracy.
My two cents.
There has been no shortage of hypotheses for 55 years. Hundreds of hypotheses, in fact.
Go ahead — waste your life on conspiracy theorizing. You will achieve nothing. A net loss, unless you can sell enough books. There’s one born every minute, said Barnum.
Oh, good lord.
Write it up. Get it published. I think Unz proves there’s at least a couple dozen out there who will buy the book. IMO, the sales curve is trailing down. But, could be. Santa Claus still sells Christmas presents from Amazon.
The CIA are not ten feet tall you know, many at the CIA during the early 60s thought the agency was full of Soviet agents, ie they did not know much about their own turf. The CIA did do high level funding of academics and foreign student and elite art and cultural movements , but they had have few ways of gathering intel on things on the ground in the US–unlike the FBI The FBI were constantly being requested by Angleton to put senior staff at the CIA under the tightest possible surveillance. Philby says the FBI thought CIA were mainly interested in fine food and wine and marrying wealthy women . The FBI was a more effective organisation and very, very intolerant of of the CIA encroaching on the CIA’s domestic remit The FBI knew all about Oswald and not lone before the assassination he phoned asked for an agent by name and left a message to complain about his wife being pestered by special agents doing routine checking up on him .
The only person in the CIA who was maybe reckless enough to try an assassination plot was the drunken brawling gun-nut, sex addict and head of the agency’s foriegn leader assassination program William King Harvey, but he had sent an unauthorized Mongoose team to Cuba during the Missile Crisis, and as a result was sidelined to Europe as Italy station chief during the time frame of the assassination.
“very likely the CIA is tasked with surveillance and monitoring of possible leaking and witnesses with getting rid of them one way or another. ”
And the CIA supplies the patsy.
“I, personally, unless some new data come in, believe that.”
Gosh this is hard to grasp.
So much data are in that utterly undermine the official narrative
Even the Committee on Investigating the assassination (can’t recall exact name) concluded that there had been a conspiracy. Are you saying that the conspiracy went to work to put all of their confidence in one lone shooter, one bullet, one guy who didn’t have much of a record for straight shooting?
What type of more new data would shake your faith in the single-shooter single-bullet story?
CIA files on Oswald that remain classified today are likely more things about what he said to staff of Cuban Consulate and the meeting and the call to KGB at the Soviet Embassy. We already know the Warren commission omitted from its report loose hearsay pointing to a possible Oswald motive of helping Castro. Funny way of making him a ‘patsy’, to hide incriminating reports of his meeting with emissaries of a communist regieme JFK was trying to overthrow. As to what the stuff in CIA archives that is still classified is about, everyone must draw their own conclusions. But we know what happened a couple of weeks later, don’t we?
Did Oswald try to kill General Walker for the CIA?
Why would I want to do that?
You know, not everybody is in making money. Some of us have enough for a life we like.
Besides, what to write, really?
That Oswald had connections to CIA?
That serious outfits maintain contacts with their former assets/employees?
That those contacts get documented?
That low/middle management of bureaucracies make mistakes? Funny, a?
That low/middle management of bureaucracies first loyalty is to their careers?
That low/middle management of bureaucracies when making a mistake do their best to cover them up/pass it to somebody else?
That higher one goes up the chain of management/bureaucracies people are better in that game?
That’s for incompetence/covering up somebody’s ass.
Not important.
You refuse to accept a fact that the real schemers, and people working in such outfits are good at that, are able to subtly guide, even help, people doing something they want.
Hint here and there in conversation; lost document here and there. “Forgetting” to report/write down an observation. Things like that.
I am not saying it happened, but could’ve happened. Impossible to prove a negative, of course.
“Did you have a feeling that Oswald was going to….”? “Yes, vague, but I really believed he was only bragging”.
“Did you write that down?” “Yes, but did emphasize it was just bragging”.
Etc….etc….
Of all the people commenting here I got a feeling for only a couple who worked in such environments and get the game.
Nice.
Both side of this…ahm….”discussion” think I am utterly wrong.
Hehe….funny, a?
Hahaha…you are like the other fellow I just responded.
Crackup. Love this site. Thank you Unz.
Depends of what kind of conspiracy we are talking about.
Yes, yes, I know, if “conspiracy” then it must’ve included Johnson, Illuminati, lizards and Satan.
I have another for you.
“Collusion, on low level, which could be seen as conspiracy”. Maybe some lawyers here could clarify.
I’ll spell it for you and your types.
I am a local CIA chief (whatever the title was/is/will be). As in Dallas area.
I have a couple of guys below me. One of them has a job/assignment, to “monitor” Oswald. We just had a chat over drinks. He mentioned Oswald planing “that”. He is not sure how serious it is, my call. My…….call….
Don’t like the President. Wouldn’t be bad if Oswald, or whoever, does that.
I’ll “archive” that. My estimate is, “not serious/requires no further action”.
End of story.
Now, when it happens I do my best to “dissapear” the report in limbo.
Am I conspirator? Or just doing “collusion”? Or, well, I was simply making a wrong call?
Wrong ……………call…….
Now…hehe…..now it’s funny…..do you think that my superriors, how didn’t like the President even more than me, would punish me for that…ahm….”oversight/mistake”?
Tell me…have YOU ever made a mistake in your work and then tried your best to cover that mistake? Rhetorical question, of course.
You probably meant
What type of more new data would shake your estimate in the single-shooter …?
Finding another gun would help. Or a shooter. Hopefully both.
Manochurch is a troll.
I wouldn’t bother to try to respond to anything he/she says
His/her brief is not to join in a discussion but rather to ridicule and annoy those who do and try to in fact ridicule them out of further participation.
I expect he/she is paid by someone to do this.
Otherwise, why else would he/she bother?
As with “anon” on the first JFK thread, I can’t imagine why he/she wastes his/her time reading this thread and spending his/her valuable time and energy—irrecoverable hours from his/her life— writing trollish messages unless he/she is a paid troll.
Manochurch is a troll.
I wouldn’t bother to try to respond to anything he/she says
His/her brief is not to join in a discussion but rather to ridicule and annoy those who do and try to in fact ridicule them out of further participation.
I expect he/she is paid by someone to do this.
Otherwise, why else would he/she bother?
As with “anon” on the first JFK thread, I can’t imagine why he/she wastes his/her time reading this thread and spending his/her valuable time and energy—irrecoverable hours from his/her life— writing trollish messages unless he/she is a paid troll.
“your types”
What does that mean?
“Finding another gun”
You mean, a weapon—that is, evidence—that someone, a highly skilled sniper, just left lying around to be found?
Sort of like the passports that just drifted down from the WTC?
What has happened to common sense?
Moi? Mais non.
There are some well-established physical facts. Particularly, Kennedy was killed by two 6.5mm bullets from the Mannlicher-Carcano owned by Lee Harvey Oswald.
There’s the confirmed, verifiable physical facts of the assassination, right there.
Was there a vast, multinational, multi-participant, deep, dark, mysterious P – L – O – T ?????? [Gasp!]
Dunno. Could be. Fifty-five years later, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. And, why grown men would spend hours a-burble with imagined discovery, in 2018, just fucking beggars belief.
Hijacking the thread fir Saturday!
A little quiz for you all, Kremlin shills and fake news spreaders here.
I am putting a quote and you try to guess WHO published that gem.
Here it goes:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To highlight the progress that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have made under his command, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has cited a military index created by a clickbait military-themed site without any expert, academic, military or government endorsements.
This site, GlobalFirepower.com, ranked Ukraine’s military 29th globally in its “2018 Military Strength Ranking.” In his May 8th nationally televised address, President Poroshenko called Global Firepower an “independent, authoritative analytical center.” The site is virtually unheard of among respected military experts and academics we consulted, and is apparently run by an American blogger and web-entrepreneur named Daniel Puczek whose other online ventures include weddingdresscreator.com and other infotainment sites. GlobalFirepower.com is part of the MilitaryFactory.com network of sites and “Military Factory” is a trademark registered to Puczek
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So, some bitter knowledgable person calls out cheap propagandists on promiscuously using non-expert sources.
Now, the QUIZ: guess where on Earth did i find this gem?
Answer goes in….
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
Ding!
Here it is: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/06/29/ukrainian-president-cites-clickbait-ranking-national-address/
Of all places to complain about fake experts and non-experts – Bellingcat!
Ж8-[…]
This shit just can’t get any better.
You are correct, manochurch is a troll but is peterAUS not a troll?
You aware of the concept called “introspection”?
Because the quote above could apply to you too…..
True, much easier to call anyone you disagree with “troll”.
He has a certain conviction and posts here; you do the same; I do the same.
What’s the difference?
Crackup.
with
Agree. Common sense I mean.
As the concept of a “murder weapon” and such.
True.
As the fact that Oswald had strong connections with CIA.
I don’t think so.
I think there was a collusion within low/mid level CIA management.
You mean if a collusion, at least, is proven, it wouldn’t affect certain branches of US intelligence community? At least how general public perceives them?
Sure…..
You mean “why grown men would spend hours discussing a possibility of incompetence, even a collusion, within US intelligence community, regarding assassination of US President”?
True. Better to watch Kardashians. Or go shopping. Taking selfies for FB too.
Yeah…..
Uh-oh. Skeptical is cynical.
Do I laugh at you? Hell, yes. You’re a credulous idiot.
Am I wasting my time? Well, I am listening to a damn good recording of “Revolver” at the moment.
I win.
And, just to be clear:
If I had an absolute proof that there was a collusion within US intelligence community regarding the assassination I would not do anything about it.
Anything.
That is where I do agree, up to a point, with
It would be some, minor, difference:
Memories about certain, long gone, figures would be tarnished. People connected to them in any way, today, could have some minor difficulties too (public perception etc).
It would give some ammo to certain parties within the intelligence community and Government in general in their current power play.
It would create a major difference in my life and probably lives people connected to me. At least unpleasant and most likely really bad.
Excellent book on the cultural differences and institutional competition between the CIA and the FBI.
https://www.amazon.com/Wedge-Secret-War-Between-FBI/dp/0679414711/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530315999&sr=8-1&keywords=The+wedge+mark&dpID=51e7AVxzt6L&preST=_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
USAF Chief of Staff Curtis LeMay hated President Kennedy. LeMay regarded JFK’s foreign policy as a giveaway to the Soviets. LeMay wanted nuclear war with the USSR, and JFK stood in his way.
This has been well-documented and written about in many publications, even “left-wing” magazines such as The New Yorker, for decades.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1995/06/19/the-general-and-world-war-iii
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/god-no-the-u-s-air-force-doesn-t-need-another-curtis-lemay-37de19c11652
During the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis, at a moment of maximum tension and danger, here is Curtis LeMay telling President Kennedy “he is in a pretty bad fix” for refusing to order air strikes and an all-out invasion on Cuba:
Sorry, that was the wrong video clip in the previous comment. Ignore it (it’s a parody, not the real thing.)
Here is the actual tape:
https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/educational-resources/you-re-in-a-pretty-bad-fix
Chacun a son gout, as always.
I do not believe the case is made regarding Oswald as a CIA asset. While the fact of his move to and from Russia, in 1963 post-Cuba-crisis no less, is a bit suspect for other reasons, it does point emphatically to him NOT being a CIA asset. JMHO.
That is, I really don’t see the CIA regarding him as a threat to the CIA, thus “to-be-eliminated”. Not to be invidious, but the CIA I’ve met are bean-counters (in the sense of data-gathering, not accounting). Troublemakers, yes — they destabilized Central America with bribes and gun-running to multiple opposing groups.
Next thing you’ll be telling me is I can’t watch Jeopardy ’cause it’s dumb.
Yeah, that. Mostly, I see it as utterly and pathetically counterproductive. 1963 is just waaaaay too far back to affect the present or future.
Better to spend one’s time awakening America, don’t you think? It’s almost too late.
“Manorchurch”, you disgusting little CIA weasel. A man of the One True God.
A troll isn’t someone you disagree with.
This is another trollish comment.
So I guess PAUS is probably also a troll.
I find it quite fascinating that commenters who pour out reams of material rehashing the causes of WW2 seem to want to shut down threads devoted to inquiry regarding the truth behind Dallas 1963.
This topic seems to threaten quite a few commenters.
SO there is a different culture between the Hooverite’s and the CIA? WHAT is the common denominator : corruption and launching a current coup to take down the President. Would the past be the key to the present.
I think you are on the right track with LBJ and Bush.
But Bush had more in the game than this.
Hasbara agents like Anon, Wizard of Oz and a few others like Peter AUS are apparently compensated by volume, not quality. I assume their managers have simply given up on any legitimate approach and come to the conclusion that the only possible way to combat Giraldi is flooding the comment section of his articles with meaningless bullshit.
“Anybody else?”
George Bush Senior
I only wish I were a well paid Hasbara agent. Sounds like a great job, lying in the couch cruising the internet and being paid for it
I didn’t know that. I generally don’t believe a word in left wing publications.
You betray your naive credulous belief in the craziest of the 2, 000 books about the murder.
The more of the books I read the less I believed any of them.
I read about 50 of the Who Killed Kennedy books 1998 to 2000. I considered them very entertaining in the genre of Le Caree Deighton and other spy thriller books.
Reading them all at once made me realize they were all nonsense. I wouldn’t pay 50 cents at a garage sale for any of them.
Never saw Iris Turnip truck ians before.
They’ve probably been going to the Kennedy hobbyist conventions for years. The younger generation goes to the Star Trek conventions
The difference is that the Star Trek hobbieists know it’s all a fantasy.
What suspects? Most of the suspects are not people but government agencies and big oil big steel Dallas PD.
But the only names I’ve seen are George Bush which is just a fantasy and the men who did the Watergate burglary 11 years later.
People commit conspiracies, not agencies and business organizations.
Eisenhower was going to overthrow Castro and the plan that turned into the Bay of Pigs was inherited by JFK .
Eisenhower was concerned to keep the US dominant in the Middle East and the USSR out of that region (a major reason for opposing the Suez invasion was to keep from inciting the Nasser to fall under Soviet influence and being given arms they would use against Israel. With its large population, a Soviet armed Egypt would be dangerous to Israel. He thought that Israel was safest without arms from the Soviets coming into the area. Thus Eisenhower tried to supply Nasser with weapons (opposed by the american public )and did not give Israel advanced weapons out of concern for Israel. Eisenhower was also concerned about the defence of south Vietnam, considered a extremely difficult problem that could not be shirked, not turning into another Chinese intervention in the way the Korean war did.
President Kennedy made the Bay of pigs Plan more low key and the CIA did not tell him that this would make getting off the beach and into the mountains very difficult. The CIA officers involved in the operation (including Howard Hunt) were shunted by the Kennedy administration into its new Covert Action for the Domestic Operations Division, which the CIA leadership strongly opposed. and exBay of Pigs Howard Hunt was Chief of Covert Action for the Domestic Operations Division, where he “dealt largely with the subsidizing and manipulation of news and publishing organizations in the US“. Then CIA director gave him the assignment of writing a series of Peter Ward spy novels the US’s answer to James Bond (see here.
Kennedy was in the tradition of Eisenhower by trying to avoid an arms race in the Middle East On Israel Kennedy was forced to send the very first advanced American weapons (HAWK AA missiles) to Israel (now facing Egypt with MiGs), but he also tried to keep Nasser from getting in even deeper with the Soviets and to portray the US as an honest broker in order to keep other nuclear powers from pressuring Israel over its nuclear weapons program. The US strategy was to keep the inspections in friendly hands (when Dimona was finally inspected many years later, it was by a Jewish American, who made a perfunctory look round and reported nothing improper was going on). President Kennedy faced a South Vietnam that was turning into a conventional military confrontation with the communist North and indirectly with its backers especially China whose direct intervention was to be avoided at all costs. To this end JFK tried to keep the war fought by South Vietnamese with America taking a back seat. President Kennedy sending US counterinsurgency experts and military advisers into Vietnam and speaking of the need to keep the war South Vietnamese effort, one that the US could withdraw from as soon as possible was NOT an indication that he ever contemplated withdrawal from South Vietnam before a military victory over the Communists had pacified the country. “Bear any burden” and all that. America was willing to lose rather that fight the Chinese army, but it was not willing to quit before it had been beaten. To make south Vietnam more effective at fighting the communists Kennedy approved the overthrow of the Diem brothers
When he became President, Lyndon B. Johnson greatly increased the US’s commitment in Vietnam in a surreptitious manner seriously straining the economy and his political credibility. The resources that LBJ was able to devote to Vietnam also greatly decreased his political capital internationally and thus the support he was able to give Israel. Israel was not able to sweep the bulk of the Arabs out of the West Bank Territories it captured in 1967, something I am sure is now thought a major mistake.
Under Nixon the US was trying to disengage from Vietnam by bombing the North Vietnamese into accepting the concessions that the US was making. However, Daniel Ellsberg became a secret source for The New York Times and 1971 Ellsberg’ leag of the Pentagon Papers demonstrated, that the Johnson Administration “systematically lied, not only to the public but also to Congress” in going ever deeper into Vietnam. Howard Hunt, now retired from the CIA because he was regarded as not very good at intelligence operations, was brought into Libby’s White House covert operations squad of ex CIA and ex FBI to find out where the leaks were coming from, and they bugged Ellsberg ‘s doctor. they also, for reasons that are mysterious bugged minor functionaries’ desks (not where top level matters were discussed) in the Democratic party headquartered in Watergate building. It is worth noting that John Dean who had sent them in to place the bugs was once sacked from a law firm because “He was alleged to have started negotiating his own private deal for a TV station broadcast license, after his firm had assigned him to do the same exact thing for a client of theirs.”. There have been allegations, supported by Gordon Liddy, that Dean may have been doing something something similar in the Watergate bugging, ie clandestinely leveraging his employer’s resources for the furtherance of a personal project of John Dean’s. Unlike Liddy, Howard Hunt cooperated with the investigation. Even so his fines and legal costs over the affair amounted to a million dollars and he became bankrupt.
The original plan was the CIA’s planes would pretend to be from Castro’s air force and suddenly shoot up and bomb the actual Cuban air force on the ground well before the landing of a tame Cuban exile force (fronted by a ex sergeant) getting ashore and to a coastal town with port facilities where they could announce they were the government. Then the US would with bombing of the Cuban army as if to support an indigenous uprising. The original Cuban town to be taken was Trinidad which was anti Castro and had nearby mountains to fall back to if it got too hairy. Casto had agents in the exile force and understood he had to stop them on the beach, although the original plan would have likely worked anyway because all they had to do is get ashore and radio for assistance for their supposed popular uprising, even from the mountains.
But the potential international reaction was worrying so Kennedy asked for a more clandestine operation. The CIA scaled down the prepatory air strike, and offered the a night landing (extremely challenging even for regular Marines) at the remotely rural, surrounded by swamp Bay of Pigs with only one road in and no mountains to retreat to, which Castro knew well because he went fishing there and the locals loved him. Kennedy approved the Bay Of Pigs in ignorance of the total unsuitability of the place and so when the CIA force got pinned down immediately and the Cubans brought heavy artillery with range of the beach, Kennedy was asked to authorize bombing. He refused. Kennedy was in a bad position because he wanted to crush commie Cuba, but not overtly invade. LeMay merely articulated that Kennedy was in an impossible position. Any hint of scorn or threat to Kennedy would have got LeMay instantly sacked (Obama sacked Stanley McChrystal for far less).
Kennedy sacked Director Dulles who had told him it would work. The CIA stiffs involved in the Bay of Pigs were sent to work in a new domestic department of the CIA that the Kennedys insisted on setting up over the CIA’s objection. E. Howard Hunt Jr. (sometime novelist, who had ghosted Dulles’s book Craft of Intel) was one of those people from the Cuban project moved and he was made chief of the domestic section. At the behest of Kennedy their newly minted Covert Action for the Domestic Operations Division of the CIA, headed by Hunt, started subsidising various media outlets in an attempt to influence culture and reporting of the news. The CIA’s greatest triumph was in the area of elite art.
What the CIA did, it was criminal.
Yes, Kennedy did sack Dulles for telling him it would work. At the time, JFK was naive to believe that Dulles was telling him the truth, but the historical question remains: did JFK later come to believe that Dulles had deliberately lied to him?
We now know that Dulles did lie to Kennedy about the CIA’s certainty of the “uprising”, and the success of the invading force.
In November of 1960 - five months before the planned invasion – the CIA admitted to itself that the invasion would fail!
Their solution?
Let it fail, and as that played out, in the heat of battle, Kennedy would (the CIA assumed) cave in and authorize the overt use of the USMC and the US Navy to “save” the invasion force.
So, the CIA and the Joint Chiefs predicted that they could manipulate Kennedy into the only action they knew had a chance to work – to send in the Marines.
From the CIA itself:
“CIA officials, from Dulles on down to the branch chief who ran the operation, professed this same belief but tacitly assumed that President Kennedy would commit US troops rather than let the Brigade be overrun.”
To their astonishment and anger, Kennedy refused and instead accepted the losses.
They hated him and never forgave him.
Here is a page from documents declassified in 2005 and a cite from the CIA itself:
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB355/bop-vol3_p149.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/winter98_99/art08.html
I wouldn’t bother responding to the clown, manorchurch. He’s recently confessed his utter and complete ignorance of the entire matter on the initial thread. Don’t waste your time feeding the troll.
Fact-free, insulting posts yet again. Something is clearly getting under your skin. There are some awful books out there on the assassination, with Posner and Bugliosi both topping the list. However, why not try to rebut the evidence against the pristine bullet and the exit wound in the back of the head with some hard facts!
Militarily the invasion was a total failure and no amount of air support would have altered that, although it might have let the navy get in to take them off the beach, Well the real plan, as Castro understood, was always to get to a town or the mountains in a pinch then claim to be the popular government asking for help. Then the US would invade.The CIA planners went along with their bosses and didn’t bring up the problems to get inland long enough to pretend to be a rebel army because no one would have thanked them. All they had to do was get inland and survive for 48 hours.They could not get off the beach so the air cover by that stage was for an evacuation of a failed invasion. Kennedy OKed it as a covert operation so it would appear a grass roots organisation of Cubans were rebelling and asking for help, and not as an totally external D day-style invasion. No one in the CIA could possibly have thought anything like that was possible
Kennedy and especially RFK had a great deal to do with the Cuba operation after the Bay of Pigs with Operation Mongoose headed by Edward Lansdale and William King Harvey. CIA people who worked on the Bay of Pigs were reassigned, not sacked.And the Kennedy’s were mounting operation Mongoose sabotage and terrorismran with |Robert Kennedy so it was not like Kennedy had given up
I had forgotten the factoids about Connally:
Son of a Texas Served in the Navy during the war, became an aide to Johnson after the war.
Became Secretary of the Navy at Johnson’s behest.
Navy one of the biggest users of oil and MIC services.
From Wiki:
“He had close ties with Johnson before his navy days and maintained them till the former president’s death in 1973.”
So, was Connally the guy who made the arrangements regarding the autopsy and removal of body to Bethesda Naval BAse? Connally was riding in the limo with Kennedy, but he was LBJ’s man.
Because we have been requested to leave that discussion for the Part I thread, which has 1000 comments on the subject. Please go there, and take your demands for your opponents to prove you wrong with you.
What are you raving on about?
Who appointed you Thread Monitor?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qXZp8bxpNY&t=1m4s
How could Kennedy send in an overt US armed forces attack on Cuban forces after saying that to the world. The idea that the CIA misunderstood is an interpretation by historian Piero Gleijeses that suits the CIA, which endorses it on its website. No the CIA planners just closed their eyes to Kennedy’s statement. The Caribbean counties were in an uproar over US suport for papa Doc blatant ficing of election in Haiti. Kennedy was on a trip Puerto Rico, he’d found out the second strike would not be leaving from captured Cuban territory as he’d assumed but Nicaragua he said he they could hot launch any such second wave airstrike. The CIA division heads had no reason to be angry with Kennedy and they knew it.
For a study of the JFK assassination from a different perspective, read Partners in Crime: The Rockefeller, CFR, CIA and Castro Connection to the Kennedy Assassination. The author studies not only the coverup carried out by the Warren Commission but also what he calls the post-coverup as a reaction to Oliver Stone’s film JFK. Also, he exposes many mostly unknown details about Castro — the only one among the suspects who had publicly threatened both John and Robert Kennedy with assassination —, as well as Castro’s connection to the Rockefellers.
Right. As far as Manochurch is concerned.
I was wondering the same thing!
Where did you, Iris and turnip truck suddenly come from? Some old codger Kennedy hobbiest convention? It’s not 1963 any more.
I’ll write what I please where I please. Who appointed you Thread Monitor? I’m merely asking the troll who claims a conspiracy to be a nonsense how to explain a magic bullet and a rear exit wound with his lone nut theory.
There was a cover-up in 1963. There was a cover-up in 1978. LBJ died 1973, E Howard Hunt worked in the CIA up to 1970. Castro or mafia or Texas oilmen could make the cover-up. The cover-up outlasted any small group of men angered by the Bay of Pigs or JFK being soft on Communists. LBJ did not invade Cuba. The reason for the long cover-up is not Cuba and it was not personal issues. It had to be US politics that changed after the successful assassination and whoever did it had to be able to set up very extensive and long lasting cover-up, which leaves very few choices.
I hadn’t heard of this book and just read teh blurb at Amazon.
There are some credible points mentioned in the blurb, but some of this is nonsense. Specifically:
“Gonzalez added a main one not mentioned by any author before: President Kennedy was secretly conspiring with Soviet Premier Khrushchev to end the Cold War.”
1. Kennedy was not “secretly conspiring.” He basically announced his intention at his speech at American University in June 1963.
2. “conspiring” when applied to a president and another head of state is a word out the Trump era playbook. To me it sounds ludicrous in the context in which the blurb writer (probably the author) uses it, because a conspiracy is by definition a secret plan to commit a crime or unlawful act. A “conspiracy” between two heads of state to end the cold war and reduce global tensions with the aim of preventing nuclear war is hardly, in my book, a crime!
Yes, Kennedy did want to reduce tensions with the USSR. He had put major resources into the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. He wanted a safer, saner world. He had opened up back channels to both Khrushchev and to Castro. Both of these initiatives had to be “secret” because in the political realities of the American “Commie” hysteria (of which we are getting a replay these days).
3. I very much doubt the contention regarding Castro, on the basis of my own reading of a couple of Castro bios, including the one that details the Kennedy-Castro back channel.
4. The involvement of the Rockefellers seems quite possible, since they were Standard Oil and thus part of the Oil Combine.
No, the secret service and Kennedy’s aides and widow rushed the body out of the hospital at gun point to prevent an autopsy and investigation in Dallas.
It’s in all the books. The 1965 to 1985 books all praised the glorious secret service and aides for removing the body away from the evil Dallas right wing KKK conspirators.
After about 1985 The Who Killed Kennedy industry was full of tales that the wounds had been altered on the plane, or before it arrived in the autopsy room, and the autopsy report altered
After those tales, The Who Killed Kennedy industry began began to point out that the autopsy should have been done in the county where the murder occurred not 1,000 miles away.
2,000 books, 2,000 explanations and accusations, each crazier than the last.
Get 15 books of The Who Killed Kennedy genre and read them one after the other. Then you’ll see how useless the genre is a solving the murder.
Off topic, why does every single eggo frozen waffle tv ad feature blacks? Maybe they are the only demographic that doesn’t eat those nasty tasteless things?
O.K.
I do believe that Oswald had strong connections with CIA. What were those connections, in what capacity, what was the clarification I don’t know.
No prob.
That is exactly the main reason I believe he had strong connections with CIA.
Straw man attempt, perhaps?
I’ll reprhase
I see strong reason for CIA to keeping contact with Oswald.
Keywords: contact, impressions, assessments, reports.
Getting those reports could be interesting.
It was Garrison’s book and the film JFK that made a lot of people realize how bogus the endless theories were.
The silliest part of the film was Costner rambling on about there was a conspiracy but I couldn’t find anyone involved so I picked Clay Shaw because he is a gay White man and David Ferrie was a White gay White man so when David Ferrie died and couldn’t be arrested I picked Clay Shaw to be charged with conspiracy to murder Kennedy
Garrison’s book and especially the movie backfired. Both movie and book convinced a lot of people that The Who Killed Kennedy hobbiests were just making up tales.
Every time JFK is shown on TV more and more people don’t believe Garrison’s theories. It achieved the opposite effect intended.
Connally was wounded and under medical care when the body was removed to Washington and during the autopsy. Didn’t anti Kennedy army general Curtis LeMay take over the navy autopsy?
One of the reasons.
Another is that there is no entity in USA I’d trust with that information.
None.
I don’t, actually.
Those believing or/and doing that, good for them.
I believe in improving oneself, helping people I care for, and connecting with similar people.
Having fun too.
Free will.
Probably, for lower 80 % of US society.
Still, never say never.
Even better, maybe:
I only wish I were a well paid Hasbara agent. Sounds like a great job, waiting for a snapper to bite, cruising the Internet and being paid for it.
Not being a total idiot, I don’t pour over maybe altered maybe not altered internet photos if what may or may not be photos of kennedy’s Head and wounds
Some deranged Who Killed Kennedy hobbiest posted a photo that looks a lot more like a store mannequin with a wig and red paint than a real corpse on the part one thread
Not being a gunshot wound expert Doctor I can’t create theories from alleged photos of Kennedy’s wounds
If you fancy yourself an expert on gunshot wounds go right ahead and make up all the crazy theories you want
Just don’t demand I believe your crazy fantasies.
Who’s your suspect? Not 35 government agencies but a real individual human suspect?
Instead of naming a government agency, name the CIA operative who actually fired the shot.
If you can’t come up with an actual individual human suspect all your ideas are just a crock.
The CIA did it the CIA did it. Ok who in the CIA actually did it and how did that person do it?
You are as ridiculous as Jim Garrison. 4 years of wasting the taxpayers money all he came up with was Clay Shaw who was only arrested and charged because Garrison’s onkybsuspect David Ferrie died so the completely innocent Clay Shaw was arrested and charged in Ferrie’s place.
Garrison’s witnesses were unstable mentally ill people who continually changed their stories.
Shaw was aquitted in less than an hour by a jury that examined the evidence. Or the total lack of evidence.
It was a trial of Garrison’s fantasy vs reality. Since it wasn’t a book but a trial reality won out for once.
2,000 books 2,000 fantasies each crazier than the other.
I have a different impression.
I think the film opened up a lot of people’s eyes to the ridiculousness of the official narrative.
The fact that the film may have presented a weak hypothesis doesn’t alter the fact that it offered *an* alternative hypothesis.
As for 2,000 books, I don’t see the relevance of this point, oft repeated on this thread and others
There are thousands of books on Hitler, WW2, etc. but the case is not “closed.” In history the case is never “closed.”
Ditto just about any topic in American history. The interesting thing about Dallas is that there is still a living cohort out there that has tasked itself with trying to shut down historical inquiry.
That silly-seeming position is IMO actually part of the ongoing cover-up.
Comment 77 was highlighted with a gold border and it says
The CIA promoted Jackson Polkock and the rest of the abstract expressionists long before Kennedy was president. They also promoted American music but only American black jazz musicians.
Know why Pollock did his famous drip paintings? He was drunk all the time and couldn’t even sit in a chair. His wife was his handler. So she spread the canvases on the floor put several opened pots of paint around, gave him a stick and made him crawl around till another masterpiece was created
Are the Queen of England the Illuminati the Vatican Masons and the lizard aliens also arranging the cover up?
For a coverup to be so successful for 55 years they must be involved.
Kennedy and Kruschev met very publicly in Vienna and both announced they wanted to end the Cold War.
Hardly secret when every TV channel and publication in the works was covering the conference.
I’m not a medical Dr with experience of gunshot wounds Even if I were, I wouldn’t give an opinion on blurry internet pictures posted by Lifton fans who believe there was a surgeon standing by who dug holes in the wounds hours after Kennedy was dead.
You’re not a medical Dr with experience of gun shot wounds. You’re just a hobbyist who pours over photos posted by other hobbyists that purport to be photos of Kennedy’s head and wounds
Autopsies can’t determine who a shooter is or exonerate a suspect.
Real investigators not idiots like you look for an actual real suspect.
Who benefitted? Was he in a position to do it? How did he do it? Where was he when it happened? At work in view of 20 people?
Ok, could he have hired someone to do it? He doesn’t know any lowlifes?
We’ve explored his friends relatives and acquaintances. No potential hired killers.
So, we drop the investigation on that suspect and look for another person who wanted to kill the victim.
Autopsies price how a victim died. They don’t prove who did it.
Can’t figure out if you are stupid or an obsessed lunatic.
Check out Kennedy series on viseup
http://visupview.blogspot.com/2018/06/goodfellas-part-vi-cliveden-games.html?m=1
A great source on all kinds of fringe subjects. He has an extensive background on Mohrenschildt.
I know why you spend your time accusing numerous unknowns of killing Kennedy.
You are probably about 75 of an Irish catholic labor left family. Your parents thought Kennedy was a reincarnation of FDR who saved the working class from starvation. Your mother read every magazine article about the Kennedy women. Your sisters and high school classmates and younger teachers wire the same clothing styles and hair style Jackie wore .
When Jackie wore a lace veil instead of a hat to church all the ladies followed that style.
And then the evil KKK Dallas PD killed your Robin Hood King Arthur Irish fighter against the English occupation hero.
And you’ve been blaming the entire US government ever since.
There are 2,900 books full of fantasy data. You must have have read every one of them.
Hence my refrain — “He’s dead, Jim.” A classic line from Dr. McCoy.
Manorchurch, puneto. And ians is one of the dumbest fucks I’ve ever encountered. Yeah — even here, and including you.
So what? Still not an asset.
Definitions have meaning.
Methinks “Bingo!”.
Gasp! Why you anti-conspiracy BAHSTID!!
#metoo
Sometimes I read a Wackadoodle’s comment, and I am so thunderstruck with disbelief I can do nothing but shake my head. How can anyone be that fucking gullible?
“You are probably . . .”
You are certainly very, very funny.
Even if you casually read a few of my prev. UR posts you would see how lunatic your suppositions are.
Ditto Mr. Bingo.
You guys kill me.
Your suppositions bespeak the paucity of your life experience, and intellect.
“The technical discussion of JFK assassination should be banned from this thread. If you want to talk about technical issues go to the Part I of Ron Unz’s article.”
So what??????
It was from maybe wannabe Indian chief “utu.”
I hope Ron posts part III soon.
So a lot.
Like something you have been careful in avoiding to comment on: conversations.
I have a job/assignment to keep a contact with a PersonONE. I do it, on average, fortnightly. Two reasons: primary, to keep him under watch. Then, maybe, to re-use him again. Maintenance.
Still with me?
Each time I report the contact to my superior.
Still reading?
I like to keep the contents of the report in writing. I keep them somewhere safe. You know, career, ass cover, things like that.
Still reading?
I am sure that my supperior likes to keep the contents of the report in writing. You know, career, ass cover, things like that. Not sure how much of that he reports up….and how “up” they go in the first place.
Still reading?
So, there should be, somewhere, those documents.
Not all were misplaced, destroyed or still deemed classified.
Makes sense?
So, bottom line, anyone of , ahm, “passionate” people around can point to those documents?
Somewhere, anywhere….at all?
They do.
Like: “contact”; “meeting”; “report“; “archives”. Emphasize on “report”.
Stuff like that.
Oh, BTW, you don’t really expect that this …ahm…”discussion” will change anyone’s opinion?
People frequenting sites like this don’t do that. Or, better, around 95 % don’t.
See, I did.
I did believe Oswald wasn’t the single shooter, based on “seven seconds”.
Looks like that the timeframe was wrong, or better, we don’t have, or can’t have, a really accurate timeframe.
Good enough for me. Single shooter it is.
As for conspiracy, don’t know.
After getting a bit more about those documents (one day) I’ll have an opinion on that.
I guess that “passionate researchers” here could point me into that direction.
True, it won’t be easy, I expect, to be really sure where incompetence stops and collusion begins, or even worse, collusion stops and conspiracy begins, but…hehe…one way to find out.
The DOCUMENTS.
Anyone?
Some evil government agencies nigh be shutting down inquiry. But 2,000 books and hundreds of thousands of Kennedy hobbyists are constantly inquiring and coming up with all sorts of ideas about the assassination.
The inquiry expanded and expanded and expanded from 1965 to about 2001 when 9/11 garnered more interest. Plus by that time the Kennedy hobbyists were dying off.
How can anyone say it’s covered up when;
1 a special investigation congressional committee concluded the murder was the result of a conspiracy,
2. the majority of Americans think the murder was a conspiracy
3. and 2,000 books, many of them best sellers, claim conspiracy to kill Kennedy and government cover up.
If 35 government agencies KKK Dallas
PD anti communists anti Castro Cubans and the manufacturers and oil industry did a cover up they sure failed.
You on the other hand, have nothing to do but look at internet pictures that may or not be Kennedy’s wounds and conclude from the pictures Who Killed Kennedy.
Autopsies prove how a victim died. Autopsies don’t prove who killed the victim.
“You on the other hand, have nothing to do but look at internet pictures that may or not be Kennedy’s wounds and conclude from the pictures Who Killed Kennedy.
Autopsies prove how a victim died. Autopsies don’t prove who killed the victim.
”
Huh??
Talk about non sequiturs!
Or is it some weird form of ESP that you have got?
I seem to be really pulling your chain.
This is funny.
The Texas Connection by Craig I. Zirbel is the book that convinced me that Johnson was involved in the Kennedy assassination…
Really. The Israelis were able to construct directional HF antennas (3-30Mhz or 80-10 Meters) that could generate azimuth data and install them on missiles with body widths on the order of around a 1 foot or so? That would take some doing in 1967 or even today, considering the physics of electromagnetic radiation.
“Hobbyist.”
“Are the Queen of England the Illuminati the Vatican Masons and the lizard aliens also arranging the cover up?”
- the Queen of England, no
- the Illuminati, in the time frame 1770-1870 very much so, later it was known as Mizraim Freemasonry
- the Vatican Masons, Vatican not after the counterreform, the Malta knights and a Vatican bank had a role quite recently and close connections to P2
- the lizard aliens, no
The early Zionists were composed of Masonry (widely taken, including certain Rosicrucians and Theosophists), some Christian Zionists, some Jewish bankers, a few kabbalists, and even some communists like Moses Hess. They pondered what to do with the Jews and came up with the great idea of changing the world and restoring the Jews, as they refused to assimilate. Herzl came later, setting up the Zionist Congress. At the same time these proto-Zionists creates anti-Semitism and used it as a tool for forcing the Jews to Palestine while they negotiated with world powers. Masons lost their position after the Paris Commune, they were too well known, but the secret society continued under the guise of Theosophy, thus Thule and Nazis. This group was never destroyed and it had a mission. It was real and it is real.
I guess you are closely following Alex Jones and others of the ilk. Maybe you should start reading more reasonable stuff. All what I wrote here has been quite well demonstrated by historians.
An autopsy can determine whether the deceased was shot from the front or the back. Therefore it can sometimes exonerate a suspect.
A tour de force! That was one of the most enjoyable, interesting and chilling essays I have ever read. You don’t publish often, but when you do, you knock it out of the park.
My God, I thought Sailer had a massive set of brass balls (and he does) but after this essay I wonder how you manage to even ambulate with such a set! Bravo!
Re-posting this very interesting link provided by Bier at 426:
Time for Part III:
https://whowhatwhy.org/2016/02/16/the-full-story-of-the-sirhan-sirhan-parole-hearing/
I hope that one of the talented authors posting on this site will soon write about Robert F. Kennedy’s assassination, which is entirely part of the abhorrent plot against President Kennedy.
I think you are missing the vital clue that unravels the whole mystery.
According to Wikipedia, “In the film ‘Zoolander,’ Derek Ben Stiller learns that male models throughout history have been brainwashed into committing many high-profile murders. He is told that the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy was due to JFK’s involvement in the Cuban trade embargo, which ‘halted the shipment of Cuban-manufactured Sansabelt slacks, a very popular item at the time.’”
Clement Greenberg
From the very begining the CIA detested and distrusted the French it was not just Angleton, Bedell Smith too. Perhaps that explains why when Charles deGaulle visited the US and his bodyguards were horrified that Kennedy would sit about outside within rifle range of a public road, they were not taken seriously. Kennedy was reckless, he had the perspex canopy left off of the limo although his favourite Secret Service man begged him not to. Curiously JFK and Jackie made a home movie with the Secret Service agent spoofing him being assassinated
JFK did worry about some things http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3573573/Do-NOTlet-Mrs-Kennedy-cross-paths-Aristotle-Onassis-jealous-President-Kennedy-ordered-Secret-Service-agent-Jackie-away-womanizing-shipping-magnate-solo-trip-Greece.html
According to Bill Harvey’s widow, when Kennedy was in Italy he had bodygaurds bring two prostitutes to his bedroom. She also said that Jackie slept with Onassis before the assassination.
Pardon my ignorance, having read this excellent article by Ron Unz, but what was the actual motive for the attack on the Liberty? To send a message to Johnson? No doubting this possibility, but was the message to demonstrate a cavalier attitude, and/or to re-affirm prior involvement in the JFK assassination. What did Israel gain, or what would they have gained?
I have only heard of the Liberty being attacked and how it was possibly done on purpose, but I am unclear why, even accepting the most malicious of intents, what those would have been, ultimately.
Anyone?
This does seem to be the consensus account, but it is highly dubious in light of radio technology at the time.
The “main communications antenna” would have been a simple dipole antenna, i.e. a horizontal wire half the length of the transmit/receive wavelength, with a feed line at the center. There would have been several such antennas available for TRANSMISSION by the vessel’s radio room. (In addition, there would be countless antennas used to pick up radio signals for sigint.)
Put simply, the “main communications antenna” is not a compact, readily identifiable installation.
It would be exceedingly difficult for a ship (let alone an aircraft) attacking the Liberty to figure out which of countless wires strung hither and thither. While one of the dipole antennas could have been destroyed COINCIDENTALLY in the course of the initial attack, an attacker could NOT reasonably have counted on eliminating ALL transmit antennas.
It must also be recalled that “JAMMING” interferes with the proper operation of a radio RECEIVER, not the TRANSMITTER. On a jammed frequency, the Liberty radio crew would have been unable to HEAR any responses to their requests for help, but they were able to SEND requests “blind.”
In fact, the consensus account indicates the radio crew ultimately managed to establish TWO-WAY communications with U.S. Navy vessels, presumably by using a fall-back frequency that had not been jammed and thus could be RECEIVED clearly.
I’ll bite.
That topic pops up here , and on similar sites, on a regular basis.
Always the same flow of….ahm…..”discussion” and “debate”.
Quite interesting if you are into, say, “human behavior”.
On this site there was, recently, a LONG exchange about it.
If you really want to get to the bottom of it I’d suggest finding that article and the comments and even follow the links to some other sites housing the same topic.
It would take you, I guess, a couple of days to go through all that and form an opinion.
For my part, I did believe it was a “high level conspiracy” etc. which is the viewpoint of, say, 80 % of posters here.
After reading all that, as for now, I believe it was a mistake.
A combination of several things, among those organizational culture of IDF at the time.
And, Hell no, I am going to get into that topic, again, here and now.
This is just a quick info re your question…only. Make of it what you will.
One possibility is that after the sinking and no survivors to talk, Egypt would have been blamed for it and the US dragged into war.
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a picture of the USS Liberty with an amateur-radio type log-periodic HF antenna on top of a tower. Looking at pictures of the ship post-attack I don’t see it; maybe it was removed or cranked down? US military has used amateur-radio type equipment in the past; I recall reading of the use of the “Slinky” dipole antennas during Vietnam.
The guy who jerry-rigged the antenna, Terry Halbardier, was awarded the Silver Star 42 years after his action. He died in 2014.
https://geopolitics.co/2014/08/21/remember-uss-liberty-false-flag-1967/
The Israeli planes attacked the Liberty’s radio antennas with heat-seeking missiles. The reason the Liberty’s crew was able to bring oneof theantennas back on line was that it had been shut down for repairs, and so had not been emitting heat at the time of the missile attack.
A mistake, when the Israelis were jamming the U.S. Navy radio frequencies the Liberty was using? Of course they knew the Liberty was American.
I know what I’m talking about. On active duty during the Vietnam War, my job in the U.S. Air Force in Berlin was as a voice intercept operator, monitoring air-to-ground and ground-to-air communications of the East German Air Force. Later, I was an officer in the reserve component of the U.S. Navy to which the Liberty belonged, the Naval Security Group.
Infrared detectors? To target an HF antenna?
LOL, LOL, LOL …… repeat ad liberum.
IR homing missiles are air-to-air devices. In 1967, they were not particularly effective. They got better in the 70s. To hit a stationary target would require painting with a flare first.
IOW, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Israeli pilots knew where the comm antennas were strung, and strafed them down.
I should have said, in the reserve component of the part of the U.S. Navy to which the Liberty belonged, the Naval Security Group.
By the way, besides jamming the U.S. Navy frequencies, they also jammed the International Distress Frequency. Doing that is a war crime.
I’m no engineer or technician. In the military, I was a linguist. But I know what they told us in the Naval Security Group.
Ron, I just listened to your interview with Barrett. Graeme MacQueen’s book is definitely a must read. https://www.amazon.com/2001-Anthrax-Deception-Domestic-Conspiracy-ebook/dp/B00OZ57TVE
MacQueen is a retired prof. from McMaster University in Hamilton, ON Canada and still resides in that city. Below is a presentation he made a few years back at Harvard.
The fact the Kennedy’s head moved forward quickly before moving backward more slowly proves to me that the head shot came from the back. The forward movement was not caused by braking of the car, as Jackie’s head does not move along with JFK’s, plus the movement takes place in one frame of the Zapruder film, which only takes 55ms. The only thing that could have pushed his head forward in 55 ms. is a bullet. The giant plume of blood and tissue at the front of his head is also indicative of the bullet exiting the front of the head.
Understood. Just pointing out that IR targeting won’t find a dipole antenna wire. Especially not in 1967.
Movement cannot be seen in one frame of a movie. One frame is a still picture.
But, I know what you mean. The head is in one position in Frame A, and another position in Frame B. Therefore, the movement took place in 55ms or less.
Were the frequencies jammed just in the area or world wide? Which ever, it was a terrible thing to do.
Excellent information which obviously comes from someone with expertise.
Nonsense. Antennas do not emit enough of a heat signature for this to work. Heat-seeking missiles were designed to seek jet engines that literally glow read-hot, and were air-to-air. A communications antenna would have heat losses of much less than 100 W when transmitting at 1000 W. This heat signature would be spread out along a wire perhaps 50 feet long and could NOT have been detected by a heat-seeking missile back then.
Either this is intentional disinformation, or simply fact-free guesswork.
Wow, so you’re actually a lawyer as well as a linguist, radio specialist AND a missile specialist. Very impressive.
Do you know that a “war crime” actually is?
A log-periodic antenna (Wikipedia image below) is DIRECTIONAL and thus needs to be oriented correctly to be useful. It would not be the normal choice for an emergency transmission from a ship.
The initial choice for an emergency radio transmission would be an omnidirectional antenna such as ground-plane antenna or a vertical dipole. A horizontal dipole also has decent characteristics except along the long axis of the wire.
.JPG)
The most plausible reason for such a tremendously politically-risky attack is that it was related to the deployment of Israeli nuclear weapons. That’s really the only thing that was of such importance that it would have been worth attacking American military forces for.
The Israeli had developed functional nuclear bombs prior to the Six Day War. This was little known, not even by our State Department, but it was known by our intelligence agencies.
Israel at the time did not have surface-to-surface missile capability for nuclear warheads, so the deployment of such weapons would have been by aerial bomber.
The Israeli was very confident in his war plans, but nevertheless one has to believe that at the beginning of the conflict and for the first few days, he at all times had one or more bombers in air ready for action in case the unthinkable happened. Obviously, if the choice was between killing a million goyim and the very survival of Israel, well, kiss your backside goodbye, goyim.
Of course, at some point in time a few days into the conflict once the Israeli had gained complete confidence in his military position, he would have decided this very risky posture for the nuclear weapons no longer made sense and the weapons would have been returned to whatever secret, heavily-secured facility they were normally stored in.
From a US perspective, it would have been important to observe the actions and capabilities of the combatants but especially Israeli actions with respect to their nuclear weapons. That was almost the stone age in terms of intelligence collection, but it would have made sense to have an asset like the USS Liberty collecting radio signals as well as a fleet air reconnaissance aircraft (proto-AWACS) collecting look-down radar information. Even in the stone age, analysts combining the various intelligence threads could put the info together and come up with a pretty good idea of how Israeli was deploying his nuclear bomber force.
But was there a US reconnaissance aircraft deployed in the Eastern Med for this purpose? Who knows. We had such assets in Rota. Maybe President Johnson ordered a stand-down at the request of his Jewish pals. It would be important to know this.
In any event, the timing of the attack on the USS Liberty is curious. Why not attack her earlier? It may be that there was to be some revealing movement in the way the nuclear weapons were deployed that was about to happen and the attack was ordered such that the Americans would be blinded at that particular moment.
Remember, in those days the Israeli leadership was not heavily Americanized. It was dominated by Sabra and former Eastern European Jews who did not necessarily make great distinctions among Russian goyim, German goyim, British goyim and American goyim. They were all the Other.
The antennas were indeed wires strung along the deck. The pilots may have tried to “strafe them down,” but shooting down a wire from a plane is no easy job. It is also unlikely that they had any intelligence as to which precise antennas (out of dozens) were used for transmission.
It is not impossible that one antenna was damaged and became unusable as a result of the attack, but this is NOT a result the attackers could have been confident of achieving.
Most likely, the entire antenna story is a head-fake to deflect from the sordid reality that the U.S.S. Liberty was abandoned to its intended fate of sinking with all hands by the Pentagon and the U.S. Navy.
Any theory of what happened must take into account the obvious fact that the Pentagon and LBJ knew immediately what happened.
If you’re really interested, here are two books.Assault in the Liberty by James Ennis and Robert Loomis. Ennis was an officer in the Liberty.
The Attack on the Liberty by James Scott the son of John Scott who was an officer on the liberty
34 Americans killed 172 wounded by a country which wouldn’t exist but for the billions a year we Americans give it.
I read the Ennis Loomis book. The worst part is the way the survivors were treated by their own government
They were ordered to never say a word about the incident. After a few days of threats they were dispersed all over the world so they couldn’t get together and talk about the incident
A few years ago some survivors put up a monument they were deemed anti semetic and the Jewish Uber Alles groups tried to prevent the monument being installed
The standard explanation is that the US and Israeli government wanted to blame Egypt and attack Egypt. That would mean that Israel and the US government cooperated to destroy a US and kill the crew.
Another explanation is that the attack was to prevent the Liberty and thus America from learning about an Israeli attack on Syria.
There was a huge American flag on the deck. The Israeli pilots were close enough so the Americans could see the faces of the Israelis. So the Israeli excuse that it was a mistake is a blatant falsehood.
At the beginning of the attack, some Israeli pilots concentrated on the signals antennas and equipment.
Other pilots specifically targetted the life boats. They were rubber and were destroyed by the bullets right at the beginning of the attack
That indicates the Israelis destroyed the lifeboats so any survivors would not be able to leave the ship if it sank. The Israeli pilots continually straffed the ship for 2 hours despite the huge American flag and the name USS Liberty in the hull. USS of course means United States Ship and the Israel airfitce knows that. And liberty is an English word
Israeli torpedo boats arrived.
The Wikipedia article is good I assumed it would be pro Israel but it’s objective. There are a couple paragraphs by a Jew named Cristol. He claims it was all an innocent mistake. His only evidence it was a mistake is testimony by an one officer named Boston, cristol claims Boston was confused.
Read the wikepediac article if you want to know more read the two books I recommended.
34 killed, 172 wounded straffed for two hours despite the huge American flag and the words USS Liberty.
At the beginning of the attack some of the Israeli pilots strafed the rubber life boats which made them unusable.
I’ve read two of the books. It’s obvious the Israelis intended to kill the entire crew and destroy the ship.
It wasn’t any different from any undeclared act of war like Pearl Harbor
Given the total control of Jews over Johnson and his VP Humphrey it’s reasonable to assume the American government agreed to the attack.
It doesn’t matter if the Americans didn’t find out until the attack began and ordered the Air Force back to its base in Spain or knew in advance.
‘Stupid or an obsessed lunatic’. ‘Idiots like you’. Again, with the pathetic, childish insults.
Dr McLellan was at Parkland. Add his book to the many you, probably falsely, claim to have read for a description of the exit wound in the back of the head.
A proper autopsy, not one controlled by senior military, would have, at the least, established the path of bullets through the body and through the brain to determine how many shots fired and from what direction. The botched autopsy did, in fact, establish that the wound in Kennedy’s back, not in his neck, did not penetrate further than a couple of inches. Ford moved this wound to the neck in an attempt to make the magic bullet bs feasible.
There is no requirement for anyone to name killers. The main point being argued here is that there were more than one shooter, ergo, a conspiracy.
Quite why you feel the need to spray your unsupported crap all over this thread, why you also feel the need to insult others and display anger at those who have actually done some research and believe differently to you is puzzling.
War crimes are decided by various international agreements about what is and us not acceptable behavior in war.
There are lists of war crimes. Militaries know what war crimes are.
Lysias was in the navy . Presumably he learned it in the navy.
Blocking the international distress frequency means distressed ships and boats couldn’t signal for help.
Some say that Jackie and Onassis got engaged in September 1963 when she spent time on Onassis yacht. The plan was to get married in either 65 if he lost the 64 election or 69 if he won the 68 election
Of course some will say anything.
Onassis did stay at the White House during the funeral.
The communications equipment on the Liberty was NSA equipment top top secret.
Assault on the Liberty by Liberty officer James Ennis has a lot of details about the communications equipment I really can’t remember the details.
How do you know about 1967 top top secret NSA equipment?
You seem to know a lot. Why don’t you write it.
Only if there is a viable suspect, not if there are numerous unseen alleged shooters, including uniformed police officers on an overpass all over the place.
Amateurs pouring over internet photos many claim were altered proves nothing and does nothing to exonerate Oswald.
David Lifton used 900 pages to claim the conspirators had a DR standing by in Washington who dug holes in the wounds before the autopsy photos were taken.
Everyone has a different theory.
I was joking about the Queen of England, Vatican Jews Masons Zionists and lizard aliens
Who’s Alex Jones?
Repeat, autopsies and pictures of bullet wounds don’t prove who killed the victim.
You may think you can prove who killed Kennedy by looking at pictures of wounds. So who killed Kennedy? I mean the name of the specific, individual, actual shooter, not the CIA, oil industry or 35 other organizations.
King Arthur and Guinevere, Zeus and Venus Neptune and Athena
Here is an article from St Clair.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/02/infamy-at-sea-israels-attack-on-the-uss-liberty-50-years-later/
Of course, St Clair, like almost all counterpounch writers hasn’t the courage to tell all the truth.
There was no “Pentagon incompetence”. Pentagon then, as today, was controlled by the same forces that destroyed ” Liberty”. Otherwise, a good article to star from.
“It must also be recalled that “JAMMING” interferes with the proper operation of a radio RECEIVER, not the TRANSMITTER. On a jammed frequency, the Liberty radio crew would have been unable to HEAR any responses to their requests for help, but they were able to SEND requests “blind.””
It is connection-oriented communication. They had to first establish a channel. You send connection request and have to receive a connection response, regardless of what connection oriented protocols you use. They did not manage to establish the connection, though the other side equipment (not the crew) did hear the connection request. Finally they found an non-jammed frequency and established a communication channel.
“The fact the Kennedy’s head moved forward quickly before moving backward more slowly proves to me that the head shot came from the back. ”
There was a shot from the back. The question is if it was immediately followed by a shot from the front. Two shots explain best all JFK’s movements and head wounds.
Ok, thank you. Interesting. Especially considering the theory that the Liberty was not attacked earlier–possibly implying when it was attacked, it was because a tactical decision had been made to drop a bomb on someone (Egypt), but then it became clear they were going to win the war through traditional means–even though they had already attacked the Liberty. If I am to understand your working theory.
People never want to believe ‘conspiracy theories’ then you find certain actors were perfectly willing (at some point) to bomb parts of Florida to blame Castro.
You totally missed the point and re-ran the same loop.
Your comment about looking at photos is a total non sequitur to any post of mine, since I do not recall mentioning looking at photos on the Internet.
Honestly, I wonder why you, a guest at Ron Unz’s blog, are permitted to continue to post at this blog.
Ron Unz decided to post long essay *at his own blog,* the blog that he *owns,” on the Kennedy assassination.
You, Mr. Anon, think it is appropriate to deride the subject matter of Ron’s post—made at his blog, the blog that *Ron Unz owns*—and commenters who welcome the opportunity to engage in the discussion of the subject matter introduced by Ron Unz at *his own blog.*
Who the h— do you think you are?
You have the worst manners imaginable and,*”repeat,”* I don’t know why Ron Unz doesn’t moderate you out of the way. Commenters like you totally degrade a genuine discussion and the quality of the blog itself.
People who comment sincerely are derided and their comments treated in a derisory fashion, ridiculous, insulting, and irrelevant assumptions about them are inserted into the thread by you and your ilk. The continued glut of commenters such as you make me question the basic quality and value of this blog. At a better-run blog, such as the Saker’s blog, a troll such as you would not be allowed to deride and insult both the blog’s owner and other commenters.
I can only hope that Ron Unz comes up with a way to moderate these threads so that commenters are prohibited from indulging in childish ad hominam attacks and other trollish behaviors. Otherwise it is not worth the aggravation of commenting here.
Strange you speak of wasting taxpayer dollar for surly those paying you are wasting taxpayer dollars….
“So who killed Kennedy? I mean the name of the specific, individual, actual shooter, not the CIA, oil industry or 35 other organizations.”
My guess. Lucien Sarti in the TSBD fired three shots with Oswald’s rifle. Two misses (the second bounced to JFK’s neck from the car) and one bulls eye to the head.
E. Howard Hunt shooting from the back fired two times in short timespell of 0.6s, hit JFK to the back, hit Connally, used an automatic gun.
James Files hit the last bullet from the Grassy Knoll firing immediately after Sarti.
Reasons:
http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/07/02/finally-who-pulled-the-trigger-to-kill-j-f-kennedy/
but it is only a guess.
That’s just what they want: to make genuine commenters go away. Don’t give them a victory.
A Note for all sincere commenters and men of good will at UR:
A troll adds nothing to discussion, and in fact is trying to derail the discussion by interjecting wild and crazy remarks in hopes of drawing a response. Don’t feed the trolls. Don’t play their game. Keep your eye on the ball, and not on the hecklers slinging slurs from the peanut gallery.
To that end, Mr. Unz has provided us with a very powerful “ignore” filter. I recommend its aggressive use to collapse the comments of all the trolls on your particular list, to this effect:
You do yourself and others at UR good service by immediately populating your “ignore” list with every troll you identify. Having their comments collapsed reduces the temptation to engage these fools and clutter up the comments section with worthless banter and flames.
Note too that Ron’s other nice embellishment here tags each anonymous commenter with a serial number so we can tell one from the other. Putting Anon and anonymous on your ignore list will filter out all these guys who don’t have the moxie and/or just can’t be bothered to deal with the apparently overwhelming and intellectually challenging task of devising a unique handle.
After each article right above the comments section is a blue button labeled “Commenters to ignore.” Please at least familiarize yourself with its function and results.
Less filling. Works great. Try it; you’ll like it.
That’s misleading. Dipole antennas are strung above the superstructure, between isolators, from posts designed for that purpose. A half-wavelength dipole assembly for HF would be about 20 feet long, depending on design center frequency.
The recent book “Remember the Liberty!”, by Phillip Nelson and three Liberty survivors, contains, at Kindle location 1938, confirmation that the attack by the Israeli jets began with heat-seeking missiles aimed at the communications gear.
Calm down, sonny. Put on your man-pants.
Okay, we get it. You’re an Expert. A World-Renowned Expert. People pay big bucks to hear you intone The Facts. How DARE the lowly Internet Maggots question your pronouncements from on high? You, YOU — the Lord High Potentate of Opinionational Expertise?
I see you have issued forth (sound of trumpets) the Official Demand that Unz exact discipline upon these unwashed beggars who question your studied mastery.
I will get a fresh bag of Funions, and watch.
You’re new at this, aincha, sonny?
Oh, shit. That’s portly popinjay talk. Get over yourself. There is nothing “insincere”, nor indicative of a lack of “good will”, that people disagree with “evidence” you claim that does not meet the requirements of rules for evidence. Hearsay is hearsay — it NEVER becomes evidence.
Okay, that’ll be about enough bullshit, you officer-boy linguist snuffy. I was a US Navy comm-tech (ETN) from 1968-1972. You are just plain farting in the wind with your declarations that IR targeting works on antennas. Jesus, Mary and Joseph, you are ignorant!
Israelis might have used some AA missiles at point-blank range, sure. Not a very wise move, because IR AA is likely to skim the deck, pop up off the water, and go up the exhaust pipe of the nearest aircraft. Mostly, the Mirages strafed and bombed. Have you SEEN pictures of the Liberty? Have you talked to former crew, in 1971? I have.
Now, stop bullshitting.
The first run was napalm against the superstructure. That “painted’ a big IR flag (heat). Then some AAs against the heat flare. Israel did not have antiship missiles like those of the modern day. Also, they only had seaborne torpedo launching capability, on small PT-like boats that lacked the range to get out there with the Mirage’s initial attacks.
It was well-planned for the ordnance they had. It was deliberate and a vilely dishonorable stab in the back by a presumed ally.
The JFK assassination is of trivial importance compared to the pure evil of the attack on the Liberty.
Look at the book, three of whose four authors are Liberty survivors.
No need to look at the book. My mistake, lysias. I apologize. It’s been 50 years; I forgot about the napalm. I got those AIMs stuck in my head, and I know they had very little bang to ‘em, being designed to bring down one airplane by hitting the engine. I don’t think they carried 5 pounds of HE, if that. Sorry.
It does go to show how deliberately the attack was planned. They knew it was an American ship, therefore they had to cut-off communications first. Ordinarily, you go in with something that will take the ship out, totally, like a couple torpedos, or 500-lb bombs. They painted a heat signature on the superstructure with napalm, then hosed it down with AIMs. Took out the antennas, and it was katy-bar-the-door.
I say hang the Israelis you can catch, then nuke it from orbit.
Criticizing a book without reading it, just some blurbs, indicate poor judgement and intellectual lack of depth. Read the book and then, only then, write your criticism.
Well said re the trolls. Amusingly, the troll, manorchurch, immediately reacted to your measured comments by spluttering further insults. I’ve noticed that these trolls have, in every instance, failed to engage with substantive points made and revert to puerile insults and evidence-free assertions.
I am pretty sure in a court of law you only need to prove that you did not commit the crime, not who did.
Re, everyone having a theory, true, and many are correct.
Not according to basic principles of jurisprudence. In a court of law, the prosecutor must prove the defendant guilty. The defendant is presumed innocent. It does help if the defendant chooses to prove a lack of involvement in any criminal activity.
While we do not have any pictures of the USS Liberty’s intelligence gathering space, we do have pictures of the USS Pueblo’s spaces dating back to 1968:
http://www.pbase.com/bmcmorrow/usspueblo&page=all
Plenty of R-390 HF receivers. They had R-1051 frequency synthesized HF receivers. You can even see a Hammerlund SP-600 HF receiver converted to record onto magnetic tape Mhz swaths of the HF spectrum. Some apparent spectrum analyzer equipment as well.
Actually, posts 624 628 are very good.
The irony is just…… funny.
There are two good things about this Webzine:
Every now and then one can read something of a value; say, 5 % of material is very good.
And, well, you can observe the “social dynamics” of the group here, personalities and…..enough said.
I just hope that Ron will keep this up.
Not so sure about that, but, well, one way to find out.
Um, no.
There is confirmed, verifiable evidence in the case of the assassination. The evidence supports single-shooter, single-weapon, all shots from rear. There is real, physical evidence — bullets and fragments retrieved from the body and vehicle ballistic matches to the found rifle. The assassin is readily identified by witnesses as Oswald. Oswald kills a police officer in an attempt to avoid capture. In 999 out of 1000 murder cases with such evidence, such findings are virtually open and shut.
That Oswald was the sole shooter makes perfect sense. There is no evidence, as testimony written, conversations recorded, diaries revealing details, deathbed confessions, drunken confessions in Texas bordellos, etc. that support ANY conspiracy whatsoever. Evidence, evidence, EVIDENCE. None whatsoever.
Now, here we have a comment section for a theoretical piece on how there might have been an Israeli conspiracy. Mind you, once again, there is no EVIDENCE, there is only conjecture based on imagination and seemingly-significant random phrases and claims that have crept into the literature during 55 years.
All of that, and commenters howl with fury that someone like myself has the rude audacity to keep making sane, factual statements. Yepper, if I am going to question the imagined absolute facts that there were one, two, or googol conspiracies …. who is the villain? Who’s not sane? Who is the devil’s assistant?
Get sane, dudes. You’re tripping. Get a grip.
(1) Stringing a dipole antenna above the ship’s superstructure, from posts designed for that purpose, would be IDEAL but is not necessarily what happened. Even if it did, there would be at least two, likely more, fall-back antennas in less prominent positions.
(2) The most likely frequency range used for daytime ship-to-ship communications over distances of a few hundred miles would be in the region of 2 – 6 MHz. This corresponds to dipole antenna lengths of 246 – 80 feet.
Again, in the circumstances, the attackers must have thought it LIKELY that the Liberty would be able to send out a brief emergency message. To assume that a 450 foot vessel could simply be sunk with no radio signal being heard anywhere was wishful thinking.
Similarly, any analysis of U.S. actions and inaction in this sorry episode must start from the realization that the U.S. DOD knew in virtually real time that Israel was attacking the U.S.S. Liberty.
We have a decent understanding of the who, where, what and how.
It is the WHY of this story that remains puzzling.
Secret intelligence agents are specialists in disinformation, not assassination. More than one way to skin a cat and psychological warfare and disinfo-leaking is less dangerous than these scenarios out of Terry and the Pirates. As James Bond is told by ‘Q’ in Spectre, “I have a pension and two cats to feed”. Anyone with half a brain would realise that participating in assassination is going to leave them a loose end in an Internecine Project Intriguing premise for a film, but in the real world the unraveling would be all too predictable.
NO. You do NOT in fact “have to receive a connection response” to get your message across
Here is what would have happened happened in real life.
(1) The radioman on the Liberty tries to hail the Sixth Fleet on one of several agreed frequencies (probably according to a daily schedule) that he knows are monitored by the Sixth Fleet 24/7.
(2) Prior to transmission, the radioman listens in on the designated frequency. He notices that the frequency is heavily jammed. He also knows that although his own RECEIVER is being jammed, there is a good chance that the Sixth Fleet – hundreds of miles away – will be able to receive and understand his transmission. HE SENDS A BRIEF MESSAGE STATING THAT THE LIBERTY IS UNDER ATTACK, AND REQUESTING EMERGENCY HELP. The message is likely received by the Sixth Fleet, and immediately passed up the chain of command.
(3) The radioman then continues efforts to establish communications on other frequencies according to protocol. This may have involved jerry-rigging a new transmission antenna (basically two sections of wire used as a “dipole”). Building a workable antenna is not technically challenging, but may have involved considerable bravery given fires, incoming fire etc.
Ultimately, TWO-WAY communications are reestablished. Despite this, fighter aircraft dispatched to relieve the Liberty are recalled on orders from the highest quarters (LBJ) on two separate occasions.
Some of your conclusions might be valid, or true.
As for your radio antenna descriptions, you are, well, best word might be “cruelly misinformed”. I spent four years on active duty as a US Navy electronics technician, two years in the reserves. I’ve strung comm antennas on ships. Have you? The two I put up were not 246 feet long. Were yours?
You know, the problem with NCOs I was having, once upon a time, there weren’t very good in subtleties.
You were Navy NCO once upon a time I gather from some of your posts. Could be mistaken, of course.
Comes with the position I guess. Short, sharp and to the point with the file.
Not quite good for staff duties I am afraid. Anyway….
So, you, unfortunately, totally misunderstood my post.
That’s fine. I’ll try again. As with my NCOs…once upon a time.
Those posts were very good because they show how “free thinkers” are very fast in censoring different opinions. Still with me?
This site allows free speech.
People congregating here are, most of the time, those who couldn’t post on majority, I’d say even most, of other Web sites/forums/whatever.
So…hahaha….when they feel they have a critical mass…..haha…they do the same they resented, even hated, elswhwere. Still with me?
That’s what I see as ironic. Well, some other expressions come to mind but I’ll pass.
As for this topic, I’ll just reiterate my position:
One shooter, Oswald.
Conspiracy, don’t know. My gut feeling is “collusion at lower levels of CIA”. The only way to prove it (prove it, mind you, not reject it) is to find documents related to contacts with Oswald. I am sure those documents existed then. Do they exist now is another matter. Were they intentionally destroyed….don’t know.
Does that point to conspiracy…don’t know.
That’s why I asked those fanatics…I meant “passionate researhers” to point me to that direction. For some reasons they haven’t. Funny too.
Doesn’t matter.
You are correct in stating that the conspiracy/whatever must be proven, as case in court.
My position re that is also simple: death.
Most of people commenting here are like kids.
I’ll explain: proving that Person ONE was a part of the conspiracy was death penalty.
Now…to send a person to the chair/gas chamber (hehehe…)/before firing squad shouldn’t be easy. Shouldn’t.
I am also sure that plenty of posters here would’ve sent plenty of people there. Anyone they see as “conspirator”.
And..haha…those defending conspirators. Try go guess who?
Funny too.
Anyway, all this is just good fun.
right, the burden is on the prosecution to prove the defendant guilty, the defense does not need to prove anything regarding additional parties though that could certainly help if they can.
right, the burden is on the prosecution to prove the defendant guilty, the defense does not need to prove anything regarding additional parties though that could certainly help if they can.
Good advice. Thanks. Just did Commenters to Ignore for the first time. And manorchurch,
peterAUS, Anon[257] are gone.
A neutron activation test was administered to Oswald after he was arrested. It was negative. That shows he had not fired a rifle that day.
To clarify my working theory, Israel was almost certainly never close to a decision to actually detonate a nuclear bomb at any time during the war.
The most likely anticipated use of a bomb by Israel would have been a tactical use if Egyptian tank columns had broken through and threatened the nuclear weapons program at Dimona in the Negev desert or some other location related to their nuclear weapons.
But that Egyptian tank breakthrough was never in danger of occurring.
The Israelis were using primarily French technology both for the nuclear bombs and for the aircraft. Therefore, like the French Force de Frappe, the Israelis were probably using the French Sud Aviation Vautour bomber each equipped to carry and drop a single gravity bomb French-designed nuclear weapon.
The Israeli probably had some portion of his small nuclear bomb inventory in the air at all times during the early days of the conflict, until it became clear there would be no necessity for their use.
In these early days of the Israeli nuclear program, the location or locations where their nuclear bombs were stored and the method of deployment would have been the most important secret of the Israeli state. They were highly vulnerable to having their capability wiped out in a first strike if an adversary knew where to strike.
As to the timing of the attack on the USS Liberty, I suggest two possibilities.
The first possibility is that the Israelis were about to stand down their nuclear bombers to their secret home base and remove the nuclear bombs for storage in normal conditions. The attack on the Liberty was to blind the American intelligence gathering prior to returning the nuclear weapons to their secret storage base.
The second possibility is that the Israelis were not aware of the presence of the USS Liberty until shortly prior to the attack. They may have been under the mistaken impression that the Liberty had just arrived on station to begin collecting intelligence and attacked it to prevent it from its mission as soon as Israel was aware of its presence, motivated primarily by the desire not to allow intelligence collection on its nuclear bomber deployment.
The development of nuclear weapons was considered the most important mission for Israeli Prime Minister Ben-Gurion of his military and political career. In the minds of Israeli leaders, it was a matter of existential importance for the Jewish ethno-state.
Therefore the determination by President Kennedy to bring into being a nuclear non-proliferation treaty and to force Israel to adhere to it by threats of withdrawing American support for Israel and isolating Israel in the world community would have been considered a life-or-death struggle for Israel.
Israel had an extremely active assassination program but in principle only the Prime Minister could approve an assassination. It may be that a few months before President Kennedy was killed, Ben-Gurion gave the order with a heavy heart and then immediately resigned, so as not to burden the next Prime Minister (Levi Eshkol) with responsibility for it in case it was botched and discovered.
Also, it was not necessarily the case that Mossad proper undertook the task to plan how such a measure could be carried out. At the time, Israeli intelligence was splintered and riven with disagreement, and it may have been another faction that was given responsibility.
In any event, the most important consideration would be that it be carried out by actors with no traceable connection to or motivation for to Israel.
Ah, okay, much better. In fact, I suspect we may agree in almost the entirety of the “Kennedy assassination real and conspiracy universes”.
Sorry to hear your low opinion of NCOs. And amused. I left the Navy and took a degree in Philosophy. Went on to grad school, stopped short of a doctorate, went to work for a succession of large corporations as one of those “Information Architects” you heard such crazy things about back in the 90s.
I am quite familiar with most of the common forms of human obsession and madness that are in constant evidence (there’s that word again ;-)) on the Internet. As you might readily discern, there ain’t no cure for most kinds of crazy. While I don’t truly understand why some people are incapable of coming to grips with contradictions that deny their cherished fantasies, I continue to expend some modicum of energy in pointing them out. Sometimes.
Cheers.
Apocrypha. In fact, Oswald’s paraffin tests were positive for gunpowder residue.
Also, try to resolve the conflict (for most people) in an NAA test NOT showing residue, when an acknowledged fact is that Oswald fired four shots from a revolver.
9/30/64 San Diego – Contamination of casts taken from Lee Harvey Oswald prevented tests which could have helped link him to the
assassination of President Kennedy, a San Diego scientist said today.
Dr. Vincent P. Guinn, a chemist for General Atomic Division of General Dynamics Corporation, said he suggested an atomic test
after chemical analysis of the paraffin casts was discredited.
Guinn said elements released in the firing of a rifle were found on the skin side of the cast taken from Oswald’s cheek, but the
same chemicals also were found on the other side. [He] said the casts probably were contaminated during handling.
The test suggested by Dr. Guinn, called neutron activation analysis, was conducted at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory but also
was inconclusive because of the contamination, he said.
Probably.
That puts us in tiny minority here. Tiny.
There are iron rules on Internet (and in the real world when you think about it) how to deal with that minority.
This site is an exception only because the owner (and mods) have certain attitude.
Only.
Different strokes for different folks; division of labor; what is a plus in this job is a minus in another.
Actually, I keep NCOs in all of “Five Eyes” countries in the highest regard.
In fact, I believe those militaries are so good mainly because of NCOs. The foundation, backbone, the salt of professional armed forces.
But, doctorate or not, the personality is there. I am not quite sure I am coming across well.
A couple of days ago I was in a shop. Started chatting with ladies at a counter. Mentioned, something like “I was in military…” and one of ladies simply said:”Yes, I know.”
“How would you know”?
“How you stand and talk”………..
Make of that what you will.
Sounds….familiar.Won’t say “close” of course.
Speaking of which, I found the “switch” not easy, to say the least.
Do some work now, every now and then. Not getting easier. Surviving in “corporate culture” I mean. Actually, getting worse.
Sometimes I imagine “these” people in military, in combat, under fire. Not flattering.
Anyway.
Yup.
As for this
well, that exactly what makes most of this interesting, for me.
Trying to understand that.
INTERESTING. So after “four years on active duty as a US Navy electronics technician,” our trolling friend sporting the handle manorchurch still follows BRITISH punctuation rules and, reduced to ad hominem attacks, resorts to the old-fashioned BRITISH expression “cruelly misinformed.”
This theory seems to make some sense given the circumstances.
Oh, sorry, didn’t realize you had so much of your feelings of self-worth invested.
Thanks Achilles, you really know a lot, or have a lot of information at your mental fingertips to make plausible theories. Very interesting. It always makes me wonder what is going on now (by any state) that we don’t know about, or see and think is something else, other than what it is.
It was a paraffin test, but you’re correct in that it was proved there was no residue on his face, so he could not have shot a rifle.
Moronically repeating the supposed ‘findings’ of the discredited, debunked Warren Commission does not make you an expert. It, instead, reveals your limitlessly deep, all-encompassing ignorance in this matter and merely reveals your determination to continue to spread disinformation and misinformation throughout the thread.
The Chief of Police admitted in his later autobiography that no one had been able to place Oswald on that floor at that time with that rifle, so forget tales of witness identification. Oswald seen just after by cop, so could not have descended stairs in time and never witnessed doing so by women on stairs. Oswald could never have got to Tippit in time.
Continue to believe in magic bullets, exit wounds in the back of the head, as evidenced by Parkland doctors, that somehow came from shots to the rear, wound in his back that didn’t even transit becoming a pristine bullet that caused massive damage to two individuals etc.
As an extremely low-level Navy nobody, just stick to what you know – getting your ass reamed as it has been continuously throughout the thread, with nothing in the way of a substantive reply coming from yourself.
I suspect that USS Liberty attack was with some elements in the US government. Your theory about hiding nuclear weapons from the US does not appeal to me.
What do you think of the two other proposed theories?
1. That Israel was going to occupy the Golan heights in some way violating the cease fire with Syria and did not want its communication to be listened by the USA.
2. That Israel wanted to bring the USA to a war against Egypt through a false flag attack.
I have no own opinion on this issue.
IS THE LEASH NOW OFF THE ‘OTHER CIA?’
https://southfront.org/is-the-leash-now-off-the-other-cia/
Under Donald Trump, who is on record favoring CIA kidnapping and torture programs, the CIA has been given a green light to carry out “targeted assassinations.” Although most of these targeted kills have been carried out by drone attacks in Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia, where civilian deaths from “collateral damage” are estimated to be well over three hundred, recent events point to the CIA’s return to the “bad old days,” when it engaged in a global program of assassinating political leaders.
What would be the motive of the CIA in trying to kill Abiy Ahmed, Ethiopia’s first Muslim prime minister and an ethnic Oromo, and Zimbabwe’s president, Emmerson Mnangagwa?
The common denominator is Israel. With Trump all but opening every filing cabinet and safe in the CIA to Israeli agents-of-influence, including his son-in-law Jared Kushner and his White House adviser and partner-in-crime, Jason Greenblatt, the murders of Ahmed and Mnangagwa would have been welcomed news in Jerusalem.
The Israelis are fearful that Ahmed, known as “AA” in Ethiopia, will bring Ethiopia, which has had historical links to Israel, closer to Arab and Muslim nations. That fear is shared by the Trump White House, which cannot distinguish between American and Israeli national security interests. Had AA been killed by the explosion that tore through a rally of his supporters in Addis Ababa’s central Meskel Square, killing two and injuring 156, Ethiopia’s foreign policy, including its closer ties to Turkey, would have altered course in Israel’s favor. As part of his reforms, Mnangagwa is investigating the activities of the Zimbabwean intelligence agency, the feared Central Intelligence Organization (CIO), which engaged in various covert operations with Israel’s Mossad during the Mugabe years.
The #2 does not convince me. Egypt was already defeated. Unless Israel and, say, Angleton wanted to have much bigger war involving Russia. Or they did not expect to destroy Egypt’s air force so completely and so quickly and still implement the plan B even if they did not need it anymore?
The #1 is more likely but I am not persuaded because I am sure the US would not try to stop Israel from going to Syria. So rather they wanted the US to get involved to give them a back up cover they back when attacking Syria. But the US did not get involved? Perhaps because Egypt air force was destroyed and Israel did not have to be protected from it anymore.
Why didn’t they sink the USS Liberty? Nobody was coming to help. Somebody called it off.
Anyway, I think that some people in CIA or very high up in the US were on it. When the US planes were called off somebody who knew what was going on did it and it was not done because he got a call from Israel that there was a horrible mistake and please help us to cover it up and do not be angry with us.
James Bamford floated an idea that they wanted to cover up the mass executions of Egyptian POW’s but I do not buy it.
Makes sense what you write, so how about this that came to my mind when reading your answer:
- The CIA made a plan to give the US President a good excuse to send the marines to Cuba, that is, the Bay of the Pigs invasion was doomed from the beginning and was only a way to force JFK to say yer, but he said no.
- The CIA and the Mossad might have made a plan to give the friendly US President a good excuse to join the war and for Israel to conquer more area, but LBJ said no. This would mean that LBJ did not know of the attack in advance and when he learned of it, he decided not to send help but also to call Israel off, and not to be provoked to a war that may involve the Soviet Union, as otherwise he probably had nothing against a larger Israel.
- Same modus operande. Explains why Israel did not sink the boat.
Maybe interesting re
https://goingdownswinging.org.au/our-enduring-obsession-with-jfk/
A quote:
http://ideas.time.com/2013/11/19/five-reasons-people-under-50-are-sick-of-jfk-mania/
https://www.tipsonlifeandlove.com/holidays-2/the-jfk-assassination-half-a-century-after-dallas-why-are-we-still-so-obsessed-with-it
http://www.smudailycampus.com/opinion/america-has-unhealthy-obsession-with-jfk
And, from a rather long article (with some flaws as well):
And, the crux is:
True, anyone willing to use brains is more or less in that group; finding the proper balance is another matter.
Balance……
Yes, I can see it. Except that in case of Cuba the operation was doomed and lost while the 1967 war was already won. I would not exclude a possibility that it was an irrational yet triumphant act of sending a message to the hostile circles in the US administration: You anti-Semites, you were reluctant to help and made it difficult for friends like Angleton to get weapons for us, yet we won with French weapons and we kicked the ass of the Soviet client state for you. Remember, from now on you will be our sugar daddy, you do not need the US Navy here because we will be your unsinkable aircraft carrier which you will have to keep resupplying for ever besides, you know, the French are going to cut us off anyway.
We need more data points to draw more definitive line. They exist but they are classified.
OMG!!!! What a great post.
I blame the Kennedy PR machine that started in the 1930s with old Joseph and Rose and still continues today.
If anyone wonders why it’s brought up again it’s because Robert Kennedy Jr, the one who almost died of a heroin overdose on a plane trip to save the environment, plans to run for President in 2020.
I think of the Kennedy clan like I think of the royal family of England. I’m sick and tired of hearing about them. I’m also sick and tired of hearing about actors and the Kardashians. At least they are in the tabloids and TV shows I never watch.
Kennedy’s death didn’t change anything. Because Kennedy advocated affirmative action and issued executive orders ordering affirmative action in federal hiring and contracting, he, like every President since, was an enemy of Whites.
manor church makes a lot more sense than you, who endlessly parrots one or two “35 government agencies did it” books you’ve read.
You have no knowledge that manor church read the Warren Report. It’s probably as false as the other 2,000 theories.
Who knows, and more importantly who cares except for people who’ve had nothing to do for the last 55 years but mourn the King and Queen of Camelot.
The Alien from outer space hobbyists make more sense.
I’m so deeply cynical I don’t believe in conspiracy theories.
Stone’s movie had the opposite effect intended. Most people realized Garrison had no case against Shaw and the script didn’t connect the actual individual defendant to the CIA FBI and 33 other government agencies accused of conspiring to kill Kennedy.
Truth hurts doesn’t it?
Instead of speculating about what equipment the Liberty did or did not have in 1967 and how the transmissions could or could not have been done, why don’t you read Assault on the Liberty by James Ennis who was on the Liberty during the attack.
He relates a lot of exact details about the destruction of the equipment and how they managed to fix it enough to make the signals.
But no, you won’t read the book. You’ll just blather on about what you think was done.
In a court of law the defense tries to show reasonable doubt, you do not “need to prove you did not commit the crime.”
The prosecution has to show proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Great post, hurrah hurrah.
WHO. Johnson benefitted.
HOW. Hundreds of witnesses observed he did not shoot Kennedy Johnson had an alibi but needs further investigation because he has sleazy criminal connections.
But 55 years of investigation has failed to come up with any provable trail from Johnson to his criminal connections to the actual individual person who shot Kennedy. Most of you do not realize that a real actual individual shot and killed Kennedy
CONCLUSION . Johnson can’t be exonerated but the investigation can’t prove Johnson or one of his cronies hired or otherwise persuaded the actual individual shooter to shoot at and kill Kennedy.
THEREFORE Drop the Johnson investigation and investigate others.
It’s basic investigation procedure. You think the CIA did it? Then find the individual CIA operatives who actually did the shooting. You think Onassis did it so he could marry Jackie. Then do a proper investigation and see if you can find the actual shooter.
A Russian ship received the distress signals and arrived 2 hours after the attack began. By that time 2 Israeli boats had arrived and were torpedoing the Liberty.
When the Israelis saw the Russian ship the Israeli planes and boats left and didn’t come back.
Isn’t it badly misinformed?
Once again, read Assault on the Liberty by James Ennis who was an officer in the Liberty. The book has all the details of how the crew managed to send the distress call.
At least whoever wrote that link admitted that Oswald’s rifle and 3 shell casings were found in the TSBD.
Most of the lunatics claim that Oswald brought a teeny tiny package into the TSBD and that no rifle was found in the TSBD
A step towards proper investigation. Searching for a trained professional assassine in the area is good technique.
Trace connections from suspected shooter to shooters connections to connections of the beneficiary .
Still, there’s no evidence that Sarti did the shooting.
I only hope that Ron markets his web site to men under 5o who aren’t living in the past.
I haven’t seen such insanity since the Betty Ong didn’t exist article. All the comments but mine, PeterAus and manor church are just rehashes of the 2, 000 books and 2,000 theories
So who was the actual shooter or shooters, 55 years, 2,000 books no one has named a viable shooter but Oswald.
Maybe someone else used his rifle.
There is irrefutable conclusive evidence that Oswald shot Tippett. Oswald had a pistol in his possession when arrrsted. Ballistics experts examined Oswald’s pistol and the bullet found in Tippetts body.
The bullet found in Tippetts body was fired from Oswald’s pistol. Of course the conspirators may have snuck into Oswald’s room and stolen his pistol prior to Nov 22.
They may have fired a bullet into an animal from that pistol They may have kept the bullet and returned the pistol to Oswald’s room. They may have planted a conspirator in every hospital in Dallas with instructions to dig out the real bullet that killed Tippett and substituted the bullet fired from Oswald’s gun.
Ron’s article was excellent in that he started with the question that should start every investigation.
Who benefits.
Most of the comments are just derived from those ridiculous books. Tippett was the get away driver tasked with delivering Oswald to his execution. The person who killed Tippett was an exact Oswald double wearing the exact clothes. The package carried into the TSBD was 5 inches shorter than a Carcano, like that could be determined.
George Bush was standing outside directing operations Abraham Zapruder conspired with the secret service driver to stop the car behind a traffic sign.
Read 15 books publisher at different times between 1970 and 2000. 15 different ideas. And what’s most ridiculous is that the books trace whatever is going on at the time of writing back to the Kennedy assassination.
Read your own comments, crazier and craziest.
I read the link. It’s mostly from Ennes’ book. I know nothing about radio frequencies. Is it possible that the Navy informed the Israelis what the radio frequency was ???
How did this discussion go from Who Killed Kennedy to the USS Liberty?
Your research consists of the CIA did it by conspiring with 35 government other agencies.
2,000 books, 2,000 theories each crazier than the last.
Autopsies price how the victim was killed. They can’t prove who did the killing.
“I only hope that Ron markets his web site to men under 5o who aren’t living in the past.”
to men? You mean, boys under 50?
Per Anon257 Ron Unz is an ageist misogynist who cares nothing for the past.
First thing the Israelis did was spray napalm. Not only did it burn the men on deck, but it creates enough heat that the missiles would hit the radio equipment as well as the ship itself.
A 6 hour mistake and 2 torpedo boats?
Ditto.
However, I think maybe Ron needs to do a bit more to help sincere commenters avoid being constantly exposed to the gratuitous hostility, apparently coming out of nowhere, displayed by such as manorchurch and Anon257.
Some commenters seem to post reasonable thoughts, but then they just can’t help pushing the envelope. They should be “herded” into acceptable blog behavior so that they start to realized that it is up to them to start disciplining themselves and recognizing and abandoning their antisocial behaviors.
Most effective might be moderators who operate on very clear guidelines, as at the Saker blog. But Ron doesn’t seem to like that idea.
There is a very useful list of characteristics of trolls at Russ Baker’s blog. Might be useful to publish that list. Because all of the typical, unpleasant trollish behaviors are listed and this makes it easier to quickly recognize their little tricks, which virtually all fall into a limited number of categories. The list was posted at one of the Pizzagate threads, which were totally infested by a couple of trolls.
Oh dear…..
On a more serious note, though:
Interesting?
If I were investigating the (possible) collusion, let alone conspiracy I’d follow trails like this. Everywhere.
Now, can’d do it, but I was sure that “passionate researchers” did that and came up with….what?
Still, in all these comments in all these threads, well….nothing.
Not important?
Well, yes.
I do believe that.
Why I believe that is rather well explained, by me, somewhere in that LONG comments thread not so long ago on this very site.
Not going to regurgitate that again I am afraid. Life is short, better things to do and stuff like that.
Hint: staff work on, say, brigade/corps level.
Now…..what’s your take on this site, how many guys posting here have had an experience in that type of work ?
I say (yes…yes, I know) I am one of, tops, 5 guys here. Five, tops, I’ve sort of recognized so far.
Staff work, in real. Add IDF organizational culture at the time and that’s it. Those two things together.
Now, that’s for the actual attack.
Cover up and the rest is another matter.
As I think applies to this very topic.
Or any fuckup of Biblical proportion done by US Guvment.
Don’t want to hijack the thread but, was there any conspiracy to …ahm…”murder” of that mechanized squad of British soldiers?
Or “murder” of that NZ S.A.S. officer?
Or those contractors in Benghazi….?
Or…..etc….etc…..
Probably not.
But, after that, each and every time “managing” the fallout is the thing. Plus “cover my ass”, “exonerate my department”, “pass the blame” etc…etc….
So…anyway, re “Liberty”, if……if you are interested, take a look…….
Wow! That is so 1984, dude. I don’t suppose you’ve read any histories about people who “herded” other people into some comfy concentration camps? You know — so they would “discipline themselves” into “acceptable behavior”?
Dude, you are totally fucked-up in the head. California public schools, perchance?
Well, Ron better start doing what you say, and quick! Ve haff vays uff dealink vit zose who do not behafe acceptably.
Whatzat you say? Lee Oswald left a note at the FBI office?
What did it say?
Evidence. Evidence!!!!!!! Not bullshit, not hearsay, not daydreaming, not I-heard-it-in-the-men’s-room. Evidence.
Yeah…..anyway.
So, a couple of simple questions for “passionate researchers” here:
Was Oswald at that office at that time?
Note: those outfits did have a visitor logbook I presume?
Who was a person he was visiting, or, who was a person who took the note?
Note: such events (time, note, etc) are, in serious outfits, logged somewhere.
Anyone followed this?
Frank Olson was an American government scientist who died in 1953 when he fell from a hotel window. It is widely believed that he was murdered by an American agency.
A memo by Gordon Thomas on the Frank Olson case states:
(Visit https://frankolsonproject.org/descent/ and search for “Gordon Thomas Statement”)
Some of Gordon Thomas’s other claims about Olson are dubious; but he does have Mossad sources (e.g. for the book Gideon’s Spies), and he alleges that this statement is confirmed by two named former Mossad agents.
It seems that spy training materials are a useful source of knowledge that is suppressed in other media.
“Is it possible that the Navy informed the Israelis what the radio frequency was ???”
I wouldn’t say ” the Navvy”…. Someone in the Navy might have done it. Not impossible.
“How did this discussion go from Who Killed Kennedy to the USS Liberty?”
Someone confessed his ignorance on the subject and asked to be enlightened.
One can argue that w/o the coup d’état in 63 and assassination of JFK , the destruction of USS Liberty wouldn’t have happened. For that kind of crime (like for the assassination itself) to go unpunished you need total control of the state apparatus…And that only the first Jewish president could have delivered.
I confess. I work for the 35 government agencies that killed Kennedy although the actual perpetrators are long dead.
It’s the greatest job I’ve ever had just lay in the couch it the back yard and get paid a thousand dollars per post.
Robert Kennedy Jr pays me too. My job is to get the Kennedy lovers all riled up so they vote him into the presidency in November 2020. Robert Kennedy Jr has a big problem with Democrat voters and the DNC.
He is the symbol of everything they hate. Wealthy White old man heterosexual not trans or confused gender. He’s even married and has White children, a crime against humanity. Like Trump his wife is very pretty and feminine
But he’s not caught up with the anti White male times and still thinks he can be nominated. If he wants to pay me I don’t object.
All the books claim that Oswald visited the FBI office and left a note telling the FBI agent to stop bothering Oswald’s wife.
I think Ron likes to have lots of comments. The only way to get lots of.comments is for people to start fighting .
My opinion is that Ron’s idea to first determine who benefited is the proper way to start an investigation.
Johnson benefited Oswald was the suspect. Investigate Johnson’s crooked political operatives and see if a connection to Oswald comes up.
And Robert Kennedy Sr would be hated by present-day Democrat voters and the DNC even more by this criteria.
“How did this discussion go from Who Killed Kennedy to the USS Liberty?”
That query struck me as a deliberate diversion. If so, it worked.
No autopsy was done at Parkland hospital. The Parkland DRs wrote ordinary medical records with the same kind of pictures they’d make for any patient with a head wound.
Autopsies aren’t done in hospitals. They are done at the county coroner facility.
The Dallas county coroner tried to do a normal autopsy and went to the hospital to transfer the body to the morgue.
The secret service pulled guns in him and forcibly removed the body to the plane. That was a violation of the laws requiring autopsies of murder victims and all unexplained deaths.
The law was one thing. The opinion of the secret service that they needed to get the new president, the body and the entourage back to Washington was another.
I think Mr. Unz may want to turn his attention to the ongoing conspiracy against President Donald Trump. It’s becoming quite interesting:
1. The FBI may have lied about the date they started their investigation relating to Hillary’s emails, possibly indicating either that they were spying on his campaign from the start (somebody offered them dirt on Hillary and the US government picked up on it, then cooked up an excuse later) or they invented the whole plot in advance and simply got caught in a lie about dates afterward.
2. CIA assets were meeting in London, safe from the prying eyes of the FBI.
The UK keeps lots of data on Americans that the US government isn’t allowed to see, legally. Under the five eyes agreement, these governments all share data on their citizens they aren’t legally allowed to keep themselves…this may explain why our government agents took a trip to London.
3. The Steele Dossier reads like some parts of it were derived from an intelligence file, like the ones MI6 keeps over in the UK.
4. A powerful lawyer with connections to Hillary was personal friends with Michael Steele.
5. Hillary Clinton has a history of using lackeys to spread disinformation; her friend Sydney Blumenthal was accused of spreading the lie that Obama was born in Kenya, for which he was reportedly denied a state department job, and this same guy was also accused of spreading the lie that Libya’s Qaddafi was giving Viagra to soldiers so they could commit rape, justifying Hillary’s push to attack that country. She was also accused of spreading lies about Lewinsky back in the 90s.
6. The government was indeed spying on Trump. They used a fake justification to spy on his computers, then failed to stop spying on him after they found no Russian involvement. The whole point was to cook up an excuse to spy on him so they could dig up dirt and leak it…which they did.
7. Andrew McCabe was fired by the FBI; he apparently invited reporters to his office and inappropriately disclosed dirt on Trump.
8. Several FBI agents were caught discussing an “insurance plan” against Trump; they supposedly met in McCabe’s office when this was discussed.
9. Michael Cohen. If that guy had any involvement with the Russians, he’d be singing to Muller, and it would have leaked by now. He has said nothing and nothing has leaked. This, more than anything, has convinced me that this whole thing is a sham.
10. The UK has a long history of interfering in our elections (see the 1940 GOP convention); they had both the means and the motive (anti-Russian sentiment) here.
11. There was an organized campaign against Trump from the moment he took office, with the WaPo running a ridiculous smear piece alleging some kind of vast Russian conspiracy; in reality, it was a shameless hit piece attacking all those who opposed Clinton (the intention was to delegitimize Trump and lay the ground work to replace him with Clinton…several far left outfits actually discussed this).
There are also allegations that Ukrainian intelligence was involved with the WaPo attack. To this day we don’t know who the supposed sources are.
12. There was a public campaign in the media to assert that Trump was insane, therefore justifying invocation of the 25th amendment. The radical left openly suggested this (The Young Turks and mainstream media); US senator Al Franken suggested it on the Senate floor…strange timing with that MeToo thing, hm?
Radical leftist traitors like the Young Turks also tried to get electors to change their votes to Hillary. This outfit has received tens of millions of dollars from a billionaire with interesting connections.
13. That South American girl who was given US citizenship at the same time she started claiming Trump called her fat decades ago, regardless of context. Quid Pro Quo?
14. The US government tried planting a spy in Trump’s campaign.
15. The same guy tried getting a job in Trump’s administration (a mole?) despite him having received money for a nebulous “India China Study” that also ran during the same period of time.
16. Said spy was paid two lump sums, a not insignificant sum of cash, during 2016 – at about the same time and even AFTER he was supposedly sent to spy on Trump.
17. The Washington media, with the aid of Senator Mark Warner, falsely claimed that disclosing the name of this spy posed a national security issue (see Greenewald’s Intercept piece). Warner, I believe, has high level intelligence contacts.
This spy also, perhaps illegally, spied on president Jimmy Carter during the 1980 campaign and passed information to the Reagan camp in order to help former CIA director George H.W. Bush get elected vice president.
He seems like the kind of guy who could be contracted to do something dirty.
18. Reports that more than one person tried to infiltrate Trump’s campaign.
19. Former CIA director John Brennan, accused of illegally spying on congress, has been running a disinformation campaign on Trump in the media, along with Michael “we kill people with metadata” Hayden. Seems a bit untoward for people of their station…or maybe they are just tipping their hands too much.
20. The FBI withheld key information in their request to a FISA judge relating to the Steele Dossier in order to get a warrant to spy on Trump.
21. Michael Steele has been caught lying multiple times, including when he falsely stated that he had not leaked information to the media (he did and he justified it because he didn’t want Trump to win). The same guy went on the run just after Trump was elected in November of 2016…with the aid of British intelligence. Hmm….
22. Donna Brazil wrote a book dedicated to the memory of Seth Rich, despite her not really knowing him. Interestingly, she drops a lot of hints in her book – like stating that she closed her blinds to prevent snipers from getting her.
23. The Seth Rich case has never been solved – a case of theft with nothing stolen. Supposedly, there is a tape of the killer’s feet that has never been released. Also, what exactly did he tell paramedics? He was supposedly alive at the time. Wasn’t he accused of being the DNC leaker? Odd.
24. The DNC refused to let the FBI examine their email servers.
25. The DNC hack occurred at a time when Hillary was trying to put the finishing touches on her winning campaign. Accusing the Russians of helping Trump would have been a nice way to do that, along with smearing his supposedly “alt-right” supporters as traitors. Too bad that it backfired.
26. Also, it was later revealed that the CIA has the capacity to hack computers and make it look like the Russians did it.
Top top secret NSA equipment becomes regular NSA equipment a few years later. Yet a few more years later, it becomes military surplus.
One should also not over-estimate the technical advantage of bespoke technical equipment created for a government client. Often, it is just a question of using existing technology for a special purpose.
We KNOW quite well what kind of radio equipment, antennas, power supplies etc. were available in 1967. Remember, we are talking about the ship’s radio room, not some fancy 1967 NSA snooping equipment (that was also on the ship).
If you think Ennis’ account adds anything significant to the story, please summarize the gist of what we are missing, in 3 – 5 simple bullet points.
We can then decide whether those details add anything substantial to our understanding of the situation.
Thank you.
Can you confirm or deny that a local reporter recognized and spoke with Jack Ruby (Rubenstein) inside one of the stairwells at Parkland Memorial Hospital prior to Kennedy’s body being confiscated and removed by the secret service?
America gave Israel a small research reactor. America knew that Israel was building a second nuclear reactor and that it was a plutonium processing plant. Israel said the second reactor was for research, which obviously was not true because Israel did not need a second reactor for researc, let alone a plutonium one. Kennedy asked for international inspections, Ben- Gurion had asked for security guarantee. Although declining international inspections which might include Russians, Israel offered to let American scientists look around Dimona. Kennedy accepted and the two scientists chosen to inspect Dimona were sympathetic to Israel and remarkably incurious. Ben Gurion was in a decline when he met Kennedy and he apparently had began to show early signs of dementia (he was 77) hardly a surprise he left office. JBJ declined to announce a formal security guarantee but privately said to Israel that the US would defend Israel if was attacked.
After some back and forth, Kennedy took was Israeli assurances at face value, because he agreed to the US scientist visiting Dimona, and the people he sent were obviously not chosen for their suspicion of Israel.
Marina being a special-case Russian immigrant, that would make sense to me. More sense than to believe an unsealed note is an update on his assassination plans, being communicated to his FBI handlers.
Either way, to say there was a note, but having no way of producing the note, is not evidence.
If you’ve ever run a forum, you would be aware of why that’s not true. Sure, Ron is aware that people will fight, but fighting is not the goal.
I see. Evidence?
Another way to look at it is that the discussion went from invented theory having no evidence, to concrete reality for which there is massive evidence.
Confirmed. That’s when Jack Kennedy jumped off the gurney, killed his look-alike reporter with carefully-placed identical gunshot wounds, then ran off with Margot Kidder, never to be seen again.
Are you going to demand evidence? ‘Cause I’ve got all kinds of it.
While Carroll Price and Eagle Eye wrestle with the
pigstrolls, I’ll review some pertinent facts to help others keep their eye on the ball.I will also provide some good leads for the sincere student of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy’s public execution.
Refresher: The weapon originally found in the TSBD was described as a Mauser by competent observers — 4 Dallas cops, including the police chief — but somehow the weapon transmogrified from Mauser to Mannlicher-Carcano.
We have a huge red flag right from the get go.
Verdict: evidence was destroyed, tampered with, or replaced by certain Dallas cops and/or the FBI to implicate Oswald, who was never seen on the 6th floor near the time of the assassination, and who was never seen with a rifle in his hands in the TSBD, or anywhere else in Dallas, although one Oswald impersonator or doppleganger was observed drawing attention to himself at a rifle range.
Lee Harvey Oswald:
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html
tbc
“I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.”
– George Bernard Shaw
Anon:
I’ve read every comment in part 1 what happened and 702 comments about part 2 who did it.
Your post is the most relevant and logical I have read. I believe Ron is a man of courage but it might be unhealthy to really pursue the truth about the on going coup.
I’ll give you one key error: Mae Brussell “quotes” Oswald as saying “I have been in the Marine Corps, have a dishonorable discharge, and went to Russia”.
False. According to US government records, on September 11, 1959, Oswald received a hardship discharge (honorable) from active service, claiming his mother needed care, and was put on reserve status, which permits re-enlistment. A dishonorable discharge denies re-enlistment and all benefits of service. No ex-Marine would ever claim a dishonorable discharge.
You found a website that publishes bullshit supporting your own imagination. So, of course, for you, it’s all true. It is not true; it is imaginary nonsense.
True, Pru, but LOL, the only true commentary has been about the media and DNC’s efforts to taint Trump. One comment out of 714+1120? Sounds about right, as far as truth content in the world of JFK conspiracy theory.
https://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/04/us/rufus-w-youngblood-72-agent-who-guarded-johnson.html
Contrast the immediate action on 11/22/1963 of SS agent Youngblood to protect LBJ with his own body with the (non)action of SS agent Roy Kellerman riding shotgun in Kennedy’s car.
Rather than shielding the President’s body with his own, as Youngblood did with LBJ, agent Kellerman can be seen ducking for cover:
(Image originally posted by tac upstream at #233)
https://www.amazon.com/Who-Jack-Ruby-Seth-Kantor/dp/0896960048
The Warren Commission chose to believe murderer Jack Ruby’s denial rather than veteran reporter Seth Kantor’s testimony– despite the fact that Gerald Ford, himself a Yale-educated attorney, would spend the rest of his long life explaining to anyone who would listen that Jack Ruby was mentally ill and should not (otherwise) be believed in what he had said to Minority Leader Ford and Chief Justice Earl Warren, after they had flown to Dallas to interview Lee Oswald’s killer in jail, and then had refused his request to be taken back to Washington, D.C., to testify where he felt that he would be physically protected.
“Can you confirm or deny that a local reporter recognized and spoke with Jack Ruby (Rubenstein) inside one of the stairwells at Parkland Memorial Hospital prior to Kennedy’s body being confiscated and removed by the secret service?”
The journalist was Seth Kantor, who was one of the journalists accompanying President Kennedy at Dallas.
Mr Kantor informed the Warren commission that Ruby was at Parkland Hospital, which indicated a conspiracy. They chose to disregard his testimony:
A man resembling Jack Rubinstein was filmed leaving the hospital while the President was dying.
Mr Kantor later wrote “Who was Jack Ruby”, a book accusing the Warren Commission of ignoring a conspiracy against President Kennedy.
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/19/obituaries/seth-kantor-is-dead-reporter-67-fought-to-protect-sources.html
Evidence, Mr. D.K. Not hearsay, not apocrypha. Verifiable evidence. Please to produce same.
You surely are mistaken that once back in America, Oswald was entitled to retain the discharge he originally obtained on false pretenses so he could to go to Russia. Going by the “Have” he did not refer to his original discharge status, but what it was he had at the point in time he spoke, because he had been downgraded once the Marines found out he obtained a discharge intending to defect. So when he came back from Russia and said what had happened, he would have been lying to claim to have an Honorable discharge. An ‘Undesirable’ discharge, which is what the Marines administratively settled on giving him after it was discovered he had got out the Marine to defect to the Soviet Union, is closer to a dishonorable discharge, so Oswald was conveying the gist of events without the need for an explanation the obvious question: “what does an ‘undesirable’ discharge mean?’ Some people don’t like explaining things are not as good as they made them sound so they prefer to err on the side of being downbeat. Oswald wasn’t expecting to be held to the fire for proof everything he said was true in an absolute sense, or he was lying. The internet hadn’t been invented back then!
I read both parts of this essay and it is an interesting [even lively] read that presents a nice overview of the subject…
The main conclusion, that we live in a ‘synthetic reality’… our conceptions of important events fully defined and constrained by a powerful media, is really the only conclusion that counts…regardless of who was actually behind the JFK conspiracy, the interesting part of the story for me was the author’s ‘Road to Damascus’ conversion…
Sadly I would say we have many more people still firmly stuck in the Matrix…including many on this bulletin board…
His secretary took the call and the agent thought it was from one of his Klansmen.
It was first-hand testimony from an eyewitness before the Warren Commission, about a personal encounter with a man with whom he already was personally acquainted. I was trained in the subject of Evidence, during my second year of law school, nearly thirty-five years ago, by . . .
https://www.law.washington.edu/directory/profile.aspx?ID=119
. . . a couple of years before I was admitted to the Bar by the Supreme Court of Washington. How about you?
Mistaken? Me? Prove it. Show me Oswald’s dishonorable discharge. If you wish to weasel-word an undesirable into a dishonorable, fine, I understand how idiots who know nothing of military discharges are led to believe that a UD is a DD.
You do not know what you’re talking about.
Ron,
Robert Wilcox, author of “Target: Patton”, wrote a 2016 book on the JFK assassination using the *same* diaries (of Douglas DeWitt Bazata) that he had used for the Patton book.
The JFK book is entitled “Target JFK: The Spy Who Killed Kennedy?”
https://nypost.com/2016/11/11/new-jfk-assassination-theory-cuban-double-agent-led-plot/
So Bazata, the alleged assassin of Patton, fingers his fellow spy, René Alexander Dussaq, as the mastermind behind the Kennedy assassination.
It is evidence, but hardly evidence of the quality required to believe Ruby, who was as you pertinently mention, a murderer. Oswald had shot a cop dead, that his colleagues were not going to make it difficult to for Oswald to be killed in turn was hardly surprising.
I am so very impressed. I am now holding up my Congressional Medal of Honor to the computer screen, and 40 years of my tax returns. Can you see everything okay?
Seriously, it does sound like something from the Warren Report. Good work! Now, which conspiracy does it support? This JFK assassination topic needs a massive index.
Here, read this.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Scott%20Peter%20Dale/Item%2002.pdf
Oswald may be accounted an authority on how he characterised his actual ‘undesirable’ discharge relative to a dishonorable one, and when he applied for jobs he lied to prospective employers about it, telling them he had an honorable discharge. The motive was obvious, and the greater lie or weaseling in any conversation in which he may have claimed to have been dishonorably discharged from the Marines would have been for Oswald to have said he had an honorable discharge. Oswald found it very difficult to get anything but menial work because employers check references for responsible positions. The only decent skilled job offer he ever got was rescinded due to his references being followed up, and that is when a neighbour suggested the book warehouse.
Seth Kantor’s testimony before the Warren Commission begins on page 71 of Volume XV of the Warren Commission Hearings, with his swearing in under oath found at the top of page 72:
https://www.jfk-assassination.eu/warren/wch/vol15/page71.php
Here is what “hearsay” actually means, as a matter of law:
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/hearsay
The relevance and materiality of Mr. Kantor’s testimony has to do with the presence of Jack Ruby at Parkland Hospital, shortly after the assassination of President Kennedy in Dealey Plaza. Mr. Kantor’s testimony was neither sought nor given to prove the truthfulness of anything that Mr. Ruby had asserted to Mr. Kantor, on that Friday afternoon. Ergo, the Hearsay Rule is utterly irrelevant and immaterial to Mr. Kantor’s sworn testimony before the Warren Commission that he had seen and spoken to Mr. Ruby at Parkland Hospital, on the afternoon of Friday, November 22, 1963, shortly after President Kennedy had been mortally wounded while being driven down Elm Street, through Dealey Plaza, in Dallas, Texas, earlier that same afternoon.
Feel free to start with this:
https://archive.org/details/IndexToTheWarrenCommission
If you would like, feel welcome to print it out at home. That way, you might find it easier to shove it up your ass, before you blow it out your nose.
When you have an idle minute, read that link I provided. It is far more interesting than meaningless argument over which is worse, UD or DD.
On the other hand, if you give credence to Ruby’s statements after murdering Oswald, it would not be unreasonable for Ruby to make an appearance at the hospital.
Most people frequenting this water cooler are grinding some sort of conspiracy axe, in full flower of every possible presumption from every scintilla of rumor.
Not my gig, sorry.
Goodness gracious, Counselor, but your behavior is NOT characteristic. IOW, I don’t believe you. Good-bye.
As I think I have mentioned , the CIA counterintel under Agleton pegged virtually defectors as as a Soviet provocation for much of the Cold war. For instance, the US Embassy in Moscow was once sent a treasure trove of documents by a disgruntled former KGB officer and returned then to the Soviet authorities, who killed the would be traitor..When KGB officer Nosenko defected to the US the CIA imprisoned him and subjected him to digital rape among other indignities.
In the 70′s Michael Bettany a MI5 officer tried to contact the Soviets to work for them but they thought it was an obvious trick and informed MI5 to tell them to not waste their time. Bettany did 20 years in his own specialwing of the prison because he knew too many secrets to be allowed to mix with other inmates. During WW2, Elana Modrzhinskaya was tasked with examining the file of Harold Philby of MI6 to determine if he was a genuine convert to communism or a British penetration agent. She pointed to the volume and value of materials Philby was supplying (he was taking out and copying files that had nothing to do with his assigned tasks) and concluded it was too good to be true. Moreover,no one with Philby’s communist background would have been allowed to join MI6 . Many in the KGB continued to think Philby was really working for the British all along, even after he defected and had been living in Moscow for years.
It just isn’t that easy to fool the other hypervigilant side’s counter intell with fake defectors and the Soviets going to the West have it good compared to Westerners going to Russia in the 1950s. A US intelligence asset/ fake defector at Oswald’s level would be going to at best a life of drudgery in a boring Soviet city where he could cut more of a dash with the ladies. Western Cold War intelligence operatives who were not emigrees did not go into countries without diplomatic cover and immunity because no one is going to volunteer for the slow torture and half a lifetime of confinement in a Lubyanka cell that they would be subjected to if caught spying , or just suspected of it.
Laughable tripe, yet again about the bullets. Pure misinformation, as ever. Anyone with a passing knowledge of the Tippit killing is more than aware that the evidence regarding the bullets found at the scene doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny. (different shells, no chain of possession, initials inscribed at time not found later etc)
Oswald could not have made it there in time, anyway.
Kantor, an extremely well respected and credible journalist, stated, categorically, that he encountered Ruby, whom he knew very well, at Parkland.
Your feeble attempts at humour don’t deflect attention from this.
You’re an ex-Navy nobody.
An intriguing aspect to Oliver Stone’s landmark JFK film should also be mentioned. Arnon Milchan, the wealthy Hollywood producer who backed the project, was not only an Israeli citizen,
He produced Sergio Leone’s last movie about a conspiracy. Maybe the story struck a chord with Milchan.
Agreed.
Everything thing I’ve read continues to lead me to believe Oswald was, indeed, a lone assassin.
Strange from your endless post I got the idea that your only occupation was that of a troll, who’s only occupation was endless misinformation or propaganda…
I think this was what the Warren Commission concluded. No wonder everyone thought it was bs.
Rest assured that any advice and additional information are duly noted and much appreciated.
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American people believe is false.” CIA director William Casey (CIA director, 1981-1987)
Oh, now I understand your problem – ex-military explains everything – carry on trooper.
Mordechai Vanunu is an Israeli former nuclear technician, says Israel behind JFK assassination.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/vanunu.html
Mordechai Vanunu, Israel’s most famous dissident free after 18 years in prison, is ready to defy the severe restrictions imposed upon him by the Israeli military and tell the western media everything he knows about the Middle East’s largest secret arsenal of weapons of mass destruction. However, because the hidden stockpiles belong to Israel, no American news outlet is interested in discussing this, except American Free Press.
“I have sacrificed my freedom and risked my life in order to expose the danger of nuclear weapons, which threaten this whole region,” Vanunu said in an exclusive interview with American Free Press on July 28.
Vanunu spent 18 years in an Israeli prison—11 and a half of them in solitary confinement—for providing evidence of Israel’s nuclear arsenal to a British newspaper in 1986. “I acted on behalf of all citizens and all of humanity,” said Vanunu.
Comments made by Vanunu during an interview with Al Hayat’s weekly magazine Al Wassat, published on July 25, made headlines around the world but were completely ignored in the United States, where they could have caused immense political damage to Israel. As The Jerusalem Post’s article headline read, “Vanunu: Israel behind JFK assassination.”
Russia’s Pravda article of July 27 began: “Israel may be implicated in the biggest crime of the past century, which took place in Dallas in 1963.”
Iran’s Tehran Times, writing from Jerusalem, said: “In a startling accusation, nuclear whistleblower Mordechai Vanunu has alleged that Jerusalem was behind the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy, who was exerting pressure on the then Israeli head of state to shed light on the Dimona nuclear plant.”
Similar articles appeared in newspapers around the world, but in the United States this explosive news was only reported by wire services and in Jewish newspapers.
Vanunu’s comments that there are “near-certain indications” that Israel was involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy support the thesis of Michael Collins Piper, presented in his book Final Judgment, that Israeli agents played a key role in the murder.
AFP asked Vanunu to explain his comments about Israeli involvement in the murder of President Kennedy.
“My view is that Kennedy was assassinated because of his strong opposition to [Israeli prime minister] Ben Gurion,” Vanunu said.
At the time, Ben Gurion was working to create a nuclear arsenal for Israel.
The group that was involved with Ben Gurion in developing and protecting Israel’s nuclear arsenal “was behind the assassination of Kennedy,” Vanunu said.
As Piper documents in Final Judgment, Kennedy’s resistance to Israel becoming a nuclear-armed state led to increasing hostility between the two leaders until Ben Gurion resigned in June 1963. Kennedy had realized that the Israelis were producing illegal nuclear weapons from the nuclear reactor given to Israel in 1959 under the “Atoms for Peace” program.
In the Al Wassat interview, Vanunu said: “Israel possesses between 100 and 200 nuclear weapons, including a neutron bomb and hydrogen bombs, which are tenfold in their effect. If an atomic bomb can kill 100,000 people then the hydrogen bomb can kill a million.
“We do not know which irresponsible Israeli prime minister will take office and decide to use nuclear weapons in the struggle against neighboring Arab countries,” The Jerusalem Post reported Vanunu having said. “What has already been exposed about the weapons Israel is holding [is that they] can destroy the region and kill millions.”
Who ordered the hit on JFK?
Wonderful post. With all the hate directed at him it’s a wonder Trump hasn’t been killed.
Thanks for putting it all together.
Most of the books I’ve read mention Ruby being at the hospital. His strip club wasnt open during the day. He kept it closed Friday and Saturday. That gave him plenty of time to buzz around town
THosand dollars a post. Best paid job I’ve ever had. Cash no taxes
What about the bullet found in Tippetts body?
Repeat Instead of speculating why not read Ennes book It’s full of details about how they managed to transmit the distress calls.
The real wealth of the Kennedys is not the wealth of individual family members but that of the Kennedy family trust which was about half a billion in the 195os
That’s a significant great fortune. It would have been available to pay for an investigation
There is zero chance the Kennedy fortune will be touched for an investigation unless there is hope to implicate Trump or revive the specter of “right wing hate and evil oil barons”. RFK js planning at a run for the Presidency. Surely, there was a conspiracy to cover up the incompetence of, supposedly, responsible agencies and individuals just after the shooting and what they knew prior to the act.
This was and is typical bureaucratic CYA. The liable individuals are long dead so what is being hidden is to avoid institutional embarrassment rather than shielding from punishment. A Kennedy investigation would possibly make important groups look bad and they could impede the Kennedy machine’s resurrection.
What a lauditory family, far more generation endurance than the Clintons. Difficult to say which is more corrupt or dangerous. Recently, the hag grand dame, Ethel, pontificated from Hyannisport about the importance of family unity during a 4th of July gathering. What role models for America:
1, Kerry Kennedy having sexual romps while her ex-husband, Andrew Couma was serving the people of New York.
2. One son convicted of porking his 14 year old baby sitter.
3. Another son overdosing on heroine on a plane trip.
4. A nephew who murdered a teenage girl.
5. A nephew who drools when making a state of the union reply speech.
We desperately need this dynasty as our role models!
The French reactor provides Israel with plutonium not the much smaller American reactor.
Did James Files kill President Kennedy?
In 1994, former military and mob associate James Files confessed to having fired the fatal shot to President Kennedy’s right temple, while aiming at him from behind the picket fence at the Grassy Knoll.
Is there material evidence to support his confession?
James Files confessed to having shot the President with a 0.222 Remington explosive bullet.
Out of some sort of bravado, he then bit the casing and left it on the fence.
Such a casing with bite marks was found at the Grassy Knoll 1987 by John Rademacher, a lawn services specialist from Texas searching the area with his stepson.
Scientific time-dating methods proved that the shell had been buried there from as late as 1963.
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/radtruth.htm
In 1993, James Files made his confession and stated that he had bitten the casing he left behind. He had no way of knowing that a casing with such bite marks had been found 4 years earlier at the Grassy Knoll.
A forensic report issued to the AARB in 1993 concluded that the marks found on the casing were indeed teeth marks.
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/radtruth.htm
Was President Kennedy’s assassination plot a precursor to today’s “false flag” attacks?
Many testimonies of mob associates and intelligence assets confirm James Files’s confession that he killed President Kennedy, while describing their own role in the very large-scale plot that culminated on 22nd Nov 1963.
Chauncey Holt, who was filmed next to Oswald handing pro-Cuban pamphlets in New-Orleans, and who confessed to being one of the 3 tramps arrested in train wagon after the murder, provided logistics to the plot organisation.
Robert Tosh Plumlee, who worked for the CIA as a pilot, flew to Dallas what he said he believed to be an “abort” team planning to stop a plot murder against the President.
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/toshfiles.htm
Judyth Vary Baker, a friend/girlfriend of Oswald’s, was his associate in anti-Cuban intelligence activities carried in New-Orleans from April to August 1963. From the phone calls she had with Oswald, and conversations with David Ferrie, she believed that Oswald was part of of an abort team tasked to stop an assassination attempt against the President.
It is very significant that even back then in 1963, real criminal political conspiracies were already masquerading a drills/abort missions, using patsies to actually achieve the exact contrary of their overt goal: successful criminal false flag attacks.
If Files spoke the truth, he shot with a mercury bullet. There should be mercury in JFK’s brain. The brain disappeared 1966. It is claimed Robert Kennedy took it. Hiding the brain could not hide osteoporosis that JFK suffered from and if RK tried to hide the medicines JFK was taking, why take the brain, there would be medicine remains in other body parts, but would they show 3 years after. Mercury would show. Securing the brain as evidence could be the motive for RK to take the brain or for someone else to destroy the brain. RK hid the brain to some deepfreeze and nobody knows where.
Oswald being in an abort team to stop the assassination could make sense. Assume Sarti was shooting from TSBD (it had to be someone good, thus someone known) and he missed, there is a rifle with a badly adjusted sight, there was the umbrella man giving signs maybe to correct the aim, and the shooter needed three bullets. This means that Sarti was shooting with a badly adjusted sight. Assume it was Oswald’s rifle and Oswald adjusted in incorrectly on purpose. Why?
Maybe because Oswald told of the plot to assassinate JFK to his superior. He was lead to believe that there was an abort team. He was told to go along the conspiracy and take his rifle to TSBD but to move the sight, he did so. He was told that Sarti would miss with the bad sight and the abort team would catch the conspirators red-handed. Sarti knew the rifle would be shooting off the target, so he was promised an umbrella man to correct the aim. He was sure 3 shots would be enough no matter where the sight pointed to, provided he gets the signs of the umbrella man.
There was no abort team. JFK was shot dead with Oswald’s rifle and Oswald become the patsy. If so, Oswald had to be a CIA agent.
It’s an interesting theory, but I must ask:
Why would Files shoot with a “mercury bullet”?
Why would RFK steal JFK’s brain?
You suggested:
Two big problems with this conjecture. The paper trail linking the MC to Oswald has many inconsistencies. Oswald denied owning a rifle; he denied ordering one in any name, and denied storing a rifle in Ruth Paine’s garage.
The problem with the MC’s scope was not that it had been manually moved out of alignment, but rather that it could not be sighted correctly because the sight was defective
http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2013/12/here-is-new-article-by-georgia-law.html
If Oswald had really wanted to buy a rifle or carbine, he could have gone to any of probably 100s of gun dealers in the greater Dallas-Ft. Worth area. Indeed, Oswald stated that he’d purchased his pistol in Ft. Worth, and not by mail order.
Uh huh. Quizás, quizás, quizás.
In the line-up of those parties with a real motive to steal JFK’s brain, this weak conjecture from Vanity Fair is a flimsy contender rendered for the cocktail set.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/10/did-rfk-steal-jfk-s-brain
Files claims in the video that it was an explosive bullet with mercury, like in Forsyth’s book. If he was the shooter, supported by the casing, why would he lie in this detail? But it is possible that Files just heard from the shooting from somebody. Anyway, he confessed, the FBI did not believe him.
If RK too the brain, it most probably was not to hide JFK’s disease or medication. It could have been to investigate it. Anyway, the brain is missing.
About the rifle. I reason like this. If it was a conspiracy, and there is proof for it, then the shooter in TSBD was not Oswald but a much better shot. I count three similar shots in 6.3s from the Dictabelt. That means a top sniper. A top sniper will not miss at that distance and need three shots if the rifle is fine. So, I conclude that the rifle was the one in TSBD and the sight was defective. You can destroy the sight by bending it. Why was the sight defective? In an assassination of the president? For sure a top sniper did not come there with a defective gun, so the gun was taken by somebody else. A traitor, a member of an abort team. Oswald is claimed to have said he was in the abort team. That gives my scenario, something like that might have happened.
If the shooter in TBSD did not know that the rifle may not be fine, how could the umbrella man be improvised in seconds to give signs to correct the aim (as that is the logical explanation for the signs if the rifle had a defective sight)? I assume there was a false abort team and an assassination team from the same organization and the TBSD shooter knew that the sight will be out of target.
Then we must think who damaged the sight. He would be killed. He knew too much and was trying to abort the mission. I can only think of Oswald, who claimed he was in the abort team and was killed. Your arguments: Oswald would have bought the rifle form a local gun dealer and the trace connecting him to the rifle is not solid. But it should be so. If Oswald was involved in the assassination (in the abort team or not, or a lone shooter) and planned/knew that the rifle stays in the building and wanted to walk away as a free man he would buy the gun from post sale making sure that the paper trail connecting him to the gun would not be solid. He would not have shown his face to any of the 100 gun dealers. If there was a false abort team, who would be the best patsy if not the one who informed about the assassination. An abort team implies that some agent learned of the assassination plan and then he very possibly was in the plan himself and betrayed the plan. Oswald.
Yes, I agree. This gives us a picture of what likely happened. People always say “someone would have talked by now.”
Well, people have talked. Lots of people.
“Assume Sarti was shooting from TSBD (it had to be someone good, thus someone known)”
Lucien Sarti being one of the shooters was revealed by known mob/secret service French associate Christian David to journalist Stephen Rivele, for his excellent documentary “The men who killed Kennedy”. These revelations were dismissed by some as an attempt by David to avoid extradition to France.
But unknown to both David and Rivele, the name of Lucien Sarti had came up in intelligence communications intercepted by Germany-based US army cryptographer Eugene Dinkin, who later defected, entered Switzerland and announced on 06 Nov 1963, at the Press Room of the UN in Geneva, that a plot to assassinate President Kennedy was in preparation, even providing the accurate date (22th).
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Allegations_of_PFC_Eugene_Dinkin.html
Dinkin’s allegations were of course dismissed and the names he quoted (Sarti’s in particular) , deleted from official reports.
Pierre Pean, who is arguably the most prominent and respected French investigative journalist , take Sarti’s participation in the assassination as an extremely likely fact.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XTNuBwAAQBAJ&pg=PT63&lpg=PT63&dq=lucien+sarti+jfk+pierre+pean&source=bl&ots=BIp8rmPFe6&sig=zL_zPXiKgPC4GNfWFsdpov-26vc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbmPX5vo7cAhWKAcAKHXE4BZYQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=lucien%20sarti%20jfk%20pierre%20pean&f=false
Pean also mentions that in May 1976, President Gerald Ford admitted to President Giscard that “the assassination had been planned”, but that the Warren commission had not been able to find out who planned it.
” If Files spoke the truth, he shot with a mercury bullet. There should be mercury in JFK’s brain. The brain disappeared 1966″
President’s Kennedy brain having gone missing from the forensic record and its disappearance never being investigated, is a blatant evidence of the cover-up still going on to the day.
1- Prominent forensic expert Dr Cyril Wecht explained why the brain was a critical piece of evidence: it should have been put to dry in formaldehyde solution and be sliced to revealed with absolute certainty the fatal bullet’s trajectory.
Forensics on the brain would have confirmed a shot from the front.
2- The shot to the head was so spectacularly destructive that it is almost certain a frangible (fragmenting) bullet was used, in comparison with the shot to the back, caused by a full-metal jacket bullet which left no fragment (whether it was or not the “magic” bullet).
Two different bullets, means two different weapons, and two different shooters.
The brain contained fragments of the frangible bullet and hence evidence of a second weapon: this is also why it had to disappear.
3- Doctor Cyril Wecht has publicly stated, many times, that there is no record of the Kennedy family or RFK getting hold of the brain. He has never been contradicted by the Kennedys.
RFK getting hold of the brain to hide traces of medication is another cover-up attempts made by the MSM in control. It is unscientific, as traces of medication would be looked for primarily in other body organs, and are unlikely to be found in the brain anyway.
4- James Files admitted to killing the President with a mercury bullet in 1993. Exhumation of the body would prove this right or wrong.
- The bitten casing retrieved in 1989 from the Grassy Knoll is material evidence that James Files has foreknowledge relevant to the assassination.
- The current official government position, as per the ARRB’s conclusions, is that it is likely that there was m gunman.
A second shooter has come forward, in a case where it is required to now identify a second shooter. Why it this not investigated? The cover-up continues to the day.
“Well, people have talked. Lots of people.”
Yes, quite so.
In his confession, James Files stated that mob men Charles “Chuck” Nicolletti and John Roselli were involved in the assassination plot.
His admission came out before Chauncey Holt and Robert Plummley’s own confessions, who later declared that they had respectively driven Nicolletti and flewn Roselli to Dallas on Nov. 22.
Iris, can I ask you about the umbrella man, that is, is he signalling that the first bullet went up and right?
The sight was defective: the shot would go a few inches up and to the right, said somebody here.
Umbrella man opened up and lifted the umbrella high above his head, then spun or panned the umbrella from east to west (clockwise), according to the Wikipedia.
Let us see how it agrees with the Dictabelt.
Assuming that shaken frame 197 indicates the first shot, we have to give a bit time for Zapruder to react, so let the first shot be at the frame 196. Then the speed is
(313-196)/(58.8-52.5)=18.57 fps
Then we can assign to frames all other times.
But I have to estimate the break between frames 132 and 133, not that it makes much difference.
Zapruder 1-132 shows policemen, then is an unknown length pause that must be several seconds. Zapruder film starts again at frame 133, which is 49.11 seconds. Let us assume the break is 7 seconds. That means that there is missing 130 frames, thus frame 132 is actually frame 2. Then the time 37.6 s is frame -80+130=50.
Zapruder frame Dictabelt seconds, what it sounds to me
50 37.60-38.60 “I get it”
132 42.11 Zapruder film stops
break 44.10-46.10 “get out of here, over here”
break 48.60-50.65 “Hold if up right there, we’re gonna do it”
133 49.11 Zapruder film starts
162 50.65-52.65 “I, I got it, hope your arse you got it”
196 52.50 first loud shot
209 53.20 first silent shot
220 52.80 second silent shot
225 54.06 Umbrella man’s umbrella seen frame 225
253 55.60 second loud shot
265 56.20-56.80 bell – about 12:30
313 58.80 third loud shot, the head shot
314 58.85 (possible front shot)
So, it looks like the umbrella man is signalling after the first shot. Is the message up and right?
“So, it looks like the umbrella man is signalling after the first shot. Is the message up and right?”
Hi J2. The frequency analysis you did of the Dictabelt recording is an absolutely brilliant study, that does not need being supported by any other concurrent piece of evidence. It speaks for itself, it is a perfect, self-sustained demonstration.
So far, I find that there are 3 pure, direct, self-sufficient, self-explanatory items of evidence proving that President Kennedy’s assassination was a conspiracy:
- the President’s head movement when shot
- the Dictabelt frequency spectrum analysis
- the exit nature of the fatal head wound (it still depends on the testimony of the Parkland doctors, but they all concur, and they have all been recorded on video, so it will be difficult to make it go away).
I have not come across sufficiently decisive information to make up my mind about what “Umbrella man” was doing. It may be an impossible point to clarify, because there were far too many people involved in the assassination. It is obvious from some testimonies that the preparation took months, with dozens of people implicated. And most of those are dead and will never speak.
Conversely, the frequency analysis of the Dictabelt recording by identification of the shots’ distinctive spectrum is a demonstration that (1) does not depend on anything else , (2) is immutable and will survive the demise of the political powers currently covering up the assassination.
By the way, an audio recording of the RFK assassination was found, which also demonstrates that the “official Sirhan version” is complete bogus.
It is such a powerful piece of evidence that it has emboldened RFK Jr to demand his father’s death to be re-investigated.
https://aarclibrary.org/rfk-jr-supports-a-new-investigation-of-his-fathers-murder/
I simply think that the Dictabelt recording is a gift from God (with a little help from audio signal processing engineers). With regards.
“So, it looks like the umbrella man is signalling after the first shot. Is the message up and right?”
In his video confession, James Files said that he shot only one shot, to the President’s right temple. He did not need guiding, and unfortunately hit.
So, if Umbrella Man was indeed signalling to adjust the line of fire, that would have been to the shooters posted in the TSBD, for which there is no known confession.
My opinion? Umbrella Man was indeed signalling that the plot was about to fail and that stepping up to the next stage was required.
I find it strange that Umbrella Man (in white jacket) remains quietly sat after the President’s limousine had gone, while all other people are running in panic, or lying to protect themselves from the shooters.
What was he doing? Assessing whether it was “mission accomplished”, knowing he had nothing to fear for himself?
Umbrella man quietly sat while everybody else is diving for cover:
This other photo of Umbrella Man is taken from an interesting angle. He is holding his umbrella open while the President seems to not have been shot at yet.
So may be his role was actually signalling to stop the fire after a fatal shot had been made, to avoid unnecessary shots that would reveal the number of gunmen?
Thanks, and your own posts have been helpful,
So, there are three possible messages that the umbrella man may have sent. As he went sitting after the shot, it does look like he knew that there would be assassination and was not alarmed by it.
Possible messages:
more shots
stop fire
up and right
Why I asked you is that if the message is up and right, it means that the TSBD shooter knew that he has to fix the aim, the gun is not aimed correctly. If the gun is aimed correctly, such a message has no meaning: the shooter tried to aim at the target, the gun shoots straight, but he missed. But to aim a gun you use this kind of a message. The sights of the rifle found was damaged and shot up and right. If the message is up and right, then I think one possible scenario is what I wrote in 757 and 759 and Oswald was in the abort team. When he noticed that JFK was shot dead, he escaped, took his revolver and false ID and probably shoot Tippit. The he was caught in the theater. Taking the revolver and false ID would be a stupid panic reaction if he had planned that he cannot be proven guilty of shooting JFK, but natural if he understood that he was made the patsy.
I think the stop fire message is excluded, as fire continued after the message. I think the two separate movements of the umbrella support the message content up and right.
“I think the two separate movements of the umbrella support the message content up and right.”
I came across this article; clearly, Umbrella Man is found suspicious by many within the JFK research community.
https://whowhatwhy.org/2011/12/05/jfk-umbrella-man-more-doubts/
Umbrella Man was in fact all the time associated with the Dark Complected Man dressed in white:
- Umbrella Man indicates where the guide directing the shooting is, by standing next to him with an unmissable object.
- Dark Complected Man IS the guide directing the shooting, moving his arm UP and RIGHT.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DNB-TLTWAh6s&ved=0ahUKEwjDgZTP8pLcAhXFY8AKHV7MCt0QwqsBCCcwAA&usg=AOvVaw1DGCBkBKYn1sfqh1cx2WlR
So you are probably right, only there are two accomplices instead of one helping out the shooter adjusting his line of fire.
Who killed officer Tippit?
James Files always said he knew who killed officer Tippit, and that it was not Oswald, but he refused to name the killer. It was an old accointance of him; they are photographed together below.
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/tip.htm
In 2012, this killer was identified as Gary Eugene Marlow by another childhood friend of Files. Marlow had died of cancer in 2007; he never denied having killed Tippet.
https://rechtiskrom.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/update-on-the-man-who-killed-police-officer-tippit/
Well, this whole scenario is rather preposterous in my view. It is indeed conceivable that Umbrella Man and DC Man were signaling with their gestures, but the idea that these gestures can be interpreted as targeting adjustments for Kennedy’s assassins is near the bottom of the list of viable possibilities, primarily because the need, practicability, precedent, and possible benefit of any such arrangement is virtually zilch.
Artillerymen may need spotters for distant targets over the horizon, but riflemen seldom if ever do because their target is in plain sight – less than 100 yards in Dealey Plaza – and, most importantly, the very last thing any rifleman wants to do is to take his eyes off his target while he’s shooting.
Those gestures by Umbrella Man and DC Man could mean anything. My guess may be as good as yours.
Conceivably, these gestures could have been a signal to JFK’s limo driver Secret Service agent Bill Greer to slow down entering the kill zone, and then virtually stop. Or, maybe it was a cue for the high-speed cameras to start rolling. Or both.
Or perhaps Umbrella Man was gesturing with the umbrella to taunt JFK about the supposed “umbrella air coverage” some say was promised by the CIA to the ragtag Bay of Pigs invasion force, but which was allegedly denied by JFK, thus infuriating the so-called anti-Castro Cubans against Kennedy for the supposed betrayal, along with the entire radical far right-wing in the United States, as exemplified by Gen. Edwin Walker, the John Birch Society, Minutemen, and various other virulent right-wing groups and individuals in the country, such as Joseph Milteer.
The cynic might think that the entire “Bay of Pigs thing” was set up to fail in the first place, and that the real target was not Fidel Castro, but rather John Fitzgerald Kennedy.
Anyway, Files is busted.
Verdict: Files is a BS artist, who was not even in Dallas, Texas on Nov. 22, 1963.
http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKfiles.htm
“- Umbrella Man indicates where the guide directing the shooting is, by standing next to him with an unmissable object.
- Dark Complected Man IS the guide directing the shooting, moving his arm UP and RIGHT.”
Good. This explains both men and sounds like the correct solution. That there is a guide to shooting makes sense only if the shooter knew that the gun is not aimed correctly, which makes sense only if there was the abort team and the rifle was taken to the upper floor by a member of the abort team who twisted the sight. That must be Oswald, it was the building where Oswald worked.
Assume now Oswald was in the abort team and in the assassination team. There hardly could be two CIA agents who informed about the assassination. Thus, Oswald told about the assassination plan. To whom? Not to E Howard Hunt, who was in the assassination plan. One or two steps up from Oswald’s immediate boss could be the superior Oswald may have informed of the assassination. Fortunately the hierarchy gets smaller when one goes towards the top, so maybe there are not so many alternatives. To whom would you tell of an assassination plan of the US president where your immediate the CIA boss is involved? Angleton? Counterintelligence boss. The one hunting traitors and spies. Oswald would have thought there was a Russian or Cuban spy trying to kille the president. Probably he informed Angleton, and then Angleton was ready to give Hunt to the dogs. Angleton understood the needs of Israel and wanted to keep the Jews in the US side in the Cold War, so he would not stop the assassination.
See, from the sign Up and Right one can get forward with some rather logical arguments.
Good, let us assume that Oswald did not kill Tippit but someone else killed him because he met Oswald. So maybe Oswald was trying to get help from some honest policeman. I can accept this scenario.
Spartakon proposes the following argument:
“Well, this whole scenario is rather preposterous in my view. It is indeed conceivable that Umbrella Man and DC Man were signaling with their gestures, but the idea that these gestures can be interpreted as targeting adjustments for Kennedy’s assassins is near the bottom of the list of viable possibilities, primarily because the need, practicability, precedent, and possible benefit of any such arrangement is virtually zilch.”
Zilch, you say. There is absolutely no need for a shooting guide is a gun is aimed correctly. If the gun shoots straight and the shooter misses, it is simply because the shooter aimed correctly but when pressing the trigger the gun moved. This happens to me every time I shoot, but it does not happen often to a top sniper. A top sniper hardly ever would try to shoot a president with a rifle which has a defective sight. A top sniper would not need three shots from that distance, but only a top sniper could make three aimed shots in 6.3 seconds with that bold action rifle. These are the facts. A top sniper was shooting with a rifle that shoots up and right, yet he hit the head with the third shot.
You agree that when looking through the sight the sniper could not see where the bullet hit as the gun has recoil. The only way he could adjust his aim was by having a shooting guide. And he did get the head shot in the third round. And we have a man opening an umbrella and next to him a man raising his hand.
“because the need, practicability, precedent, and possible benefit of any such arrangement is virtually zilch.”
- The need is that the sniper knows in advance that the sight is twisted some inches and he needs signs for aiming correctly.
- Practicability is that Oswald told of the assassination plan, so to proceed with it Oswald had to believe that the plan was to be stopped by the abort team. This is why the sniper had to shoot with a defective sight. With a shooting guide he knew he could make it. It was practically possible and the easiest way to cope with the situation when the plot was revealed too early.
- Precedent, this exact same method has been used in every case when the CIA decided to kill the USA president and the plot was revealed by Lee Harward Oswald. What, you mean that there is no improvisation in operations. The military has to improvise all the time to respond to enemy actions. If a war plan world exactly as planned, it is called winning.
- Benefit, it was necessary to complete the assassination plan even though Oswald had told about it and was trying to abort the plan. The plan worked, did it not.
Virtually zilch and you propose that the signs were symbolic references to something, like the Bay of Pigs aircover. Right, and the men were Cubans. And after the assassination they went to sit on the grass because they did not care that after their innocent symbolic demonstration their enemy got killed. I would have expected that they would have danced of joy, like the dancing Palestinians.
About your arguments against the confession by James Files. Files may not have been the Grassy Knoll shooter. He may have heard the true story from somebody. Hunt does not mention Files, he mentions Davide Moreles, a CIA sniper. The story that Files tells seems to contain many correct facts. Possibly the real shooter did not want to come forward but wanted the truth out with the help of Files.
There is a similar case I am currently starting to look at in another thread. Commentator Lauri Törni wrote a long comment of Mannerheim’s s-32 file, a document making several claims of how the WWII started. Most historians believe that there was no such file, the exception is Erkki Hautamäki, who thinks that the copies of documents were made from real ones. The source of the information is one Vilho Tahvanainen, who wrote a book in 1970 claiming that he was Mannerheim’s special agent. That claim is simply unbelievable as are his stories of his adventures, but debunking the cover story of what Tahvanainen tells of how he got this information does not mean debunking the information. Tahvanainen may have got the copies of the documents from some real intelligence person, like Paasonen, who preferred to remain as an unknown source. Likewise, I do not discard the testimony of Files just because Files could not be the original source of the information.
1- Files military record missing is a very naive argument. Special Operations always use people who are halfway between security services and the criminal world. And care is taken to destroy any official record not to incriminate governmental entities. This is the norm.
2- Retired FBI agents Richard Stilling and Zack Shelton believe that Files story brings significant new elements, and justifies re-opening the inquiry. So we can safely assume that many people will trust their professional judgement rather than Epstein’s.
Hi J2. I came across this work made by Dr James Fetzer on the Zapruder film.
Basically, he looked at 4 versions of the film and merged them, by overlapping the pictures, changing the order of some frames. He draws several conclusions, the most important being that the Zapruder film might have been edited to :
- Hide a stop of the Presidential limousine of 4 to 5 seconds just before the fatal shot.
(This stop would be confirmed by testimonies of the JFK motorcycle escort patrolmen).
http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2015/09/jfk-escort-officers-speak-fred-newcomb.html
- Decrease the intensity of the backward, left movement of the President’s head, to dissimulate he was shot from the front.
What the film seems to show (Part 2), is that the President is shot to the neck from the Grassy Knoll at frame 225. DCM lift his arm up at frame 227, and the fatal head shot happens at 314.
The setup was an L-shaped ambush. What if Umbrella Man was the demaraction, the corner of the L, between the shooters “in enfilade” at the TSBD, and the ones with perpendicular line of fire at the Grassy Knoll?
Plan A is to shoot from behind to incriminate the patsy. But once the demarcation was passed, and JFK was still standing, somebody (Charles Harrelson?) shot from the front and hit the President’s neck. Then DCM intervenes and gives direction (up), but also to slow down the limousine.
JFK is hit by a second weapon from the front (James Files?). The shot to his back would have occurred in between these two frontal shots. So would the shot to Connally.
Does that sound possible?
I have one problem with this, how would the man know in which direction the sight needed to be changed? Would he know which direction shots are missing?
I always say sure they would talk but to who? No one is listening except the wrong people.
You are making a fundamental error here.
This….posting….isn’t about laws of physics and such.
It’s combination of religious belief, need to belong and….something else.
In that Universe (belief and “else”) it’s easy:
The shooter is quite capable to fire 3 aimed shots, two with corrections signaled by a bystander, in less than 7 seconds.
You just have to believe……
Back in the normal Universe it can also be done.
I’d say…..in……30 seconds.
Providing that the observer was/is able to see the hit.
Now, in “that” Universe it’s easy. He had/has Superman eyesight, so no prob.
In this universe I am just typing from …..no way it can happen.
The poster pushing this (correction) angle can’t make a distinction between fire direction in field artillery and rifle marksmanship, but that’s O.K.
One such….ahm…personality is always expected in threads like this.
That such number, on a site like this (alt-right) is, obviously, much higher a couple of months ago would’ve been interesting.
Not anymore.
I’ve learnt not to comment in such, ahm, “discussions”, but this site deserves at least a modicum of common sense.
Cooks are O.K. to do their therapy here, no harm there, but, all in moderation.
“I have one problem with this, how would the man know in which direction the sight needed to be changed? Would he know which direction shots are missing?”
The proposed idea is that the shooter would know that the sight is twisted, but not to what direction. He would have to aim as the sight shows and before the next shot, at the same time reloading the gun without watching it (you can reload a gun without looking at it), he would look where is the umbrella and next to the umbrella would be a man showing hand signs. For this he has a second. He would see the signs hand up and hand right meaning the first shot went up and right. He would aim a bit left and down, still missing. He would aim a bit more left and down and hitting. There would not be signs after the second shot, that means that he could better concentrate on the third shot.
As for this that the shooter could not do this in 6.3 seconds, consider the alternative. Oswald, not a top shot, does this in 8-6 seconds with a gun that has a defective sight. Without getting any signs (though there is a strange umbrella man and the dark complexion man, but they just demonstrate some old thing and then sit on the grass and chat), Oswald manages to put the third shot to the bulls eye, apparently just by good luck as he could not aim to the head if he hit it with a defective sight.
Which one seems more probable?
“In that Universe (belief and “else”) it’s easy:
The shooter is quite capable to fire 3 aimed shots, two with corrections signaled by a bystander, in less than 7 seconds.
You just have to believe……”
One with corrections signaled by the dark complexion man. Notice that the second shot was a miss, the shooter had very little time to aim. He did not look at any corrections for the first shot as he already knew it shoots up and right, then he did hit JFK.
If you believe that Oswald was the shooter, you believe that an average marksman made three aimed shots in 6-8 seconds and hit the third one to the head with a defective sight. Why is it easier for you to believe this than that a much better sniper made three shots in 6.3 seconds, got signs after the first, and with information that the gun pulls up and right made the third shot, that he had enough time to do, to the head. He had just as much time as Oswald, he was much better at shooting, he had the signs. He missed the second shot because he spent time at looking at the signs.
“I always say sure they would talk but to who? No one is listening except the wrong people.”
I suggest the following:
The snipers would talk to each other and to somebody running the assassination using Dallas police radio channel 1, the one recorded on Dictabelt. They would have to have communication in order to synchronize the Secret Service and the assassins. The assassination could have been aborted if needed, that is why a radio was necessary. They put motorcycle noise on purpose on top of the channel 1. That made it unlikely that anybody else would be able to listen the communication as you have to listen carefully to hear the short communications. The words can be heard, but you have to know when to listen. The motorcycle noise is rather boring. Nobody else wanted to use the channel as some motorcycle guy’s radio obviously got stuck on it.
“the President is shot to the neck from the Grassy Knoll at frame 225.”
I will look at the video. With this notion of a neck shot from the front I have this problem that a gunshot to the neck surely would come out from the back of the neck. That is why some people have proposed that the umbrella man shot an arrow to the neck, something that would not go through. I think a bounced bullet or fragment is a better choice. If so, to bounce to the neck, it would probably have to bounce from the car and be shot from the back. It is of course possible that the neck wound was made in the frame 225, but then, when was the back wound made?
Connally thought the shots came from the back. First JFK was hit, then he. I suggest JFK was hit in the back at frame 209 and Connally at 220. Both shots came from the back. Not from the TSBD shooter, because his bolt action rifle could not be fired twice so fast. The back shot to JFK did not continue to the neck, according to autopsy it did not penetrate far and it was too low. The first shot from TSBD came too early and it was a miss. Must be, we still see all people in the límousine and nobody is hit. There are now left the head shot in the frame 313-314, and the neck wound. Just calculating from the time of the head shot, I estimate that the second shot from TSBD is around the frame 254. At that time there is a Dictabelt impulse. I still think this is the time JFK got a bounced bullet to the neck from a shot from the back.
I will look at the video.
I first looked at the possibility that the head shot from the front had been later, say 3-5 seconds after frame 313. The Dictabelt does not show any suitable impulse. What is seen is:
58.8-59.0 s very clear impulse.
Motorcycle stops 59.0, then starts again, drives slowly until 1:04.0. Then comes a beep 1:04.0-1:04.6 (some radio tries to connect), then motorcycle continues slower up to 1:08.0 and faster from there up to 1:24.0 and again slower. No gun shot like impulses after 58.8s.
Id the Dictabelt had been edited, they would have edited some things away, so it is not edited. Thus, the shot from the Grassy Knoll did not come after 59.0s, frame 314. If the motorcycle is in the presidential escort, the car did not stop for 3-4s or 4-5s after the last shot. The Zapruder film shows that it did slow down a bit to let the SS man in. Probably the car that stopped for 3-5s was the SS men car. Likewise, I think the presidential car only braked when the car is behind the traffic sign.
If there were two shots from the front, should there not be two bullet holes in the screen instead of only one? I would bet for one shot, the head shot.
The shot at 53.8s is very uncertain as an impulse, but 52.5s, 55.6s and 58.8s and 53.2-53.3s are quite clear. So, one could drop the shot at 53.8s, but it seems to complicate the explanation, so i have kept this impulse, though it does not have a fat tail.
I think 52.5, 55.6 and 58.8 are from TSBD with the same rifle and there were 3 casings. 53.2 must have hit JFK as he is hit before the frame 227. Connally was hit from the back and before 55.6s. So, if the Dictabelt impulses are correct, as I think they are, the scenario is pretty much as I wrote.
It is possible that the 53.8s would be a shot from the front to the neck of JFK, some firecracker as the reference says, would have hit the spine and split to two parts, but I think if JFK was hit to the spine at the neck he would have collapsed immediately. Instant death from such. If not to the spine, the bullet would exit from the back of the neck. I think it was a bounced bullet, or if from front, an arrow, not a bullet. Why would one use an arrow? Such stays in the wound and is visible.
The wound to the neck is a very contentious and important point of the Bethesda autopsy.
It was highlighted by Dr Cyril Wecht that the Bethesda doctors completed MISSED this wound on the day they carried out the autopsy, because it had been enlarged and used for tracheotomy by Dr Perry at Dallas hospital.
The doctors at Bethesda found about it AFTER they had completed their autopsy. So, to make a better mockery of things, they ALTERED their OWN sketches a posteriori, representing the back wound higher, so they could pretend that the neck hole was an exit wound for the former.
Dr Wecht’s refutation of the autopsy findings is well worth reading. His contribution to the JFK truth community is amazing:
https://archive.org/stream/nsia-AutopsyJFKWechtCyrilDr/nsia-AutopsyJFKWechtCyrilDr/Autopsy%20Wecht%20Cyril%2037_djvu.txt
Honest things are always simple: Parkland doctors said there was a front wound to the neck. Furthermore, they used it without hesitation to put a breating device.
So JFK must have been shot to the neck from the front too.‹
What I was trying to say is that the Dictabelt recording is a much better piece of evidence than the Zapruder film , or the official autopsy “findings”.
Both the film and the autopsy have been first planned and then doctored to suit the official narrative. The Dictabelt recording, not so, as it lead to the embarrassment of the ARRB refuting the Warren commission findings, and acknowledging that a conspiracy indeed took place.
To me it seems kind of a stretch that the secret service are in on a plot against the president. I mean anything is possible and I certainly think the killer of RFK was his bodyguard, but I feel in any plot such as the one to kill JFK you limit very carefully the amount of people who would have information. I am open however to any and all theories. The truth is out there. We know who did it we just don’t know exactly how. In the case of the secret service you may have one person who calls the shots that you have in. The rest follow orders and may suspect but don’t know, and in any case are easily disposed of after the fact if need be. It is certainly not inconceivable that elements within the deep state were planted in the secret service as an insurance plan. Do you have information that the secret service acted in concert with the snipers?
“Do you have information that the secret service acted in concert with the snipers?”
I mean the video, that was posted on this or the other JFK thread, where you can see how surprised is on SS man when being called back. Waving his hands like “what is this?” and not as “I am going for a lunch just in the middle of the presidential escort, got a bit hungry, it happens you know, see you guys later”. My Dictabelt analysis does not say anything of the involvement of the SS, but watching this video on this site I concluded that it does look like that. The action in concert with the snipers was that there was no secret service man standing on the line of fire from the back, hanging on the back of the car where he should be.
I do not say the neck wound could not have come from the front, but by what kind of a weapon? That is, if the weapon is a gun, then is it not so that if the bullet does not hit the spine, it goes through the body, and if it hits the spine so well that it does not come out from the back of the neck, JFK either dies on the spot or at least gets paralyzed and cannot move any limbs? But he has hands up after the shot. I do not know, not a doctor of that kind, but I think it would be so. Just judging from the wound, it is an entry wound but is it an entry of a direct gunshot from the front or of a bullet that was shot from the back, hit the car and bounced to JFK’s neck? A bounced bullet would have lost much of its energy and it would not go through the neck. There was no exist wound in the back of the neck. This is my problem.
You know, what I wouldn’t mind is to have a chat with you, somewhere, over drinks.
Not about this, “JFK thing”, no, just the usual life stuff.
See you in person (which would give some clues/info straight away) and then talk about life in general. The usual: family, job(s), health, interests…stuff like that.
I am sure that would confirm some assumptions of mine. Nothing bad, mind you. Different strokes for different folks. You are into some things, I am into some things…everyone is into something.
Why is somebody into that “something” is, sometimes, perhaps, more interesting that that “something” itself.
Anyway……..
I guess I don’t know enough about the whole thing to take this as a definitive sign of an intentional act or just a mistake on the part of the SS.
Hi J2. I tried to find out how other analysis made on the Dictabelt recording matches yours. Still have a lot to read, but the most interesting I found so far was by Don Thomas on the Mary Ferrel Foundation website
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=44747
The research started with Mary Ferrell herself providing the Dictabelt recording to the HSCA. The dictabelt had previously been lost, and had been kept as a “souvenir” at a Dallas policeman private home
The investigations were made using a completely different method than the one you used. It was based on acoustic pattern identification (in the time domain), using series of recording simulated in the field to account for position, echo, etc.. . They then determined a statistically acceptable level of confidence to pin a given shot to a given location.
It is therefore quite amazing that they came up with conclusions close to yours, because using frequency spectrum identification is a completely different method, purely mathematical, while theirs is really experimental.
Anyway, the two main points Don Thomas highlights that we can be quite certain of are that, based on his version of the Zapruder film:
- Connally is hit around Frame 224 (53.8 in your analysis): micrographic analysis of the Zapruder film in 1992 showed that his lapel flapped, indicating he is hit.
- The fatal head shot to the President happens at frame 313 (58.8 in your analysis).
- The interval between these two frames is 4.8s.
- The interval between the two shots in the police audio recording is 4.8s
- The interval between the two shots you identified by frequency analysis (53.8 and 58.8) is 5.0s
The acoustic method considers that these are the 3rd and 4th shots, with the 4th (shot to the head) coming unambiguously from the Grassy Knoll.
Anyway… the JFK assassination cover-up and lone gunman ludicrous fallacy has been scientifically debunked by the Dictabelt audio recording. Not a shadow of a doubt about that.
In Jerry Kroth’s new film,
Files states that he could see that Kennedy had not yet been shot in the head, and his instructions were to make sure he was shot in the head if previous shots had missed the head, by the time the limo approached the Grassy Knoll.
Files states that he got off his shot at the only window he had to do so that would not incur the danger of hitting Jackie. Their instructions were to not hit her.
So he shot Kennedy in the head from the Grassy Knoll. then he packed up his weapon in a case of some kind and walked away.
The story and evidence presented by Kroth are very convincing.
I have no trouble believing that LBJ was the mastermind. The photo in which he exchanges a wink with one of his pals on Air Force 1, right after taking the oath, is the kicker.
There is quite a lot of new info in Kroth’s film. Worth watching.
He provides a long Excel list of all those who knew something who died mysteriously shortly before they were to testify, or in untimelyl fashion, etc.
I think Maria Callas was also on that trip.
Onassis’s true love.
Donald B. Thomas accepts the identification of the shots made by the echo analysis lab used by HSCA. This echo analysis was discarded and it is incorrect. I think some head of the lab was told that as they have to make the analysis, they should make it so that the results can be discarded. The main customer of the lab was the army. The report of the lab can be found from the web.
The report informs that there is a bell sound in the Dictabelt at 152.5 s. In the Dictabelt version that I copied from the youtube jfkassaninationformum this bell sound is at 56.2 s. This is enough for calculating the times of the shots in the report. The first shot identified was at 137.2 s from the beginning of the recording, i.e., 15.3 seconds before the bell sound.
Time in the report of the lab Time in the Dictabelt in this study
Shot 1. 137.2 s 40.9 s
Shot 2. 138.8 s 42.5 s
Shot 3. 145.0 s 48.7 s
Shot 4. 145.5 s 49.2 s
There are no gunshot like impulses in the Dictabelt at those times. Indeed, there is some talking. The actual shots are 52.5s, 53.2s, (53.8s), 55.6s, 58.8s (58.9s). The ones in () are unclear. The method the lab found these times is absolute nonsense: they calculated what echo patterns (small peaks) should have been heard in a radio of a particular policeman in the autocade. Then they searched the whole record looking for a place where they can find such peaks. They announced a very small probability for such a match. I estimated the probability for such a match: it is not small at all. They were bound to find one match. The reason is the motorcycle noise, which makes small peaks to everywhere. Small random peaks everywhere, you find a given pattern from somewhere.
Notice how their estimation of the shots invalidates the bell as a bell giving the time. The bell rings once and in my analysis it rings just at the time of the shots, at 12:30. JFK was shot at 12:30. In their analysis the bell is some strange bell ringing once 15.3 s before 12:30.
Donald B. Thomas accepted this echo lab analysis and got into problems with placing crosstalks in the Dictabelt and Audiograph to correct places. He had to assume that the crosstalk “Hold everything secure” had in some way “jumped”. They cannot jump. The simple explanation is that it is not a crosstalk. In the Dictabelt it is “Hold it up right there, we are going to do it”, while in the Audiograph there is “Hold everything secure until homicide gets here” with “Hold every..” being partially synthetic voice, that is, tampered after the police chief, who said this phrase, was dead.
The video by Thomas was the reason I looked at the Dictabelt, and as he, I found that the timing of Dictabelt was wrong in the official analysis that discarded the HSCA findings, and that there are the shots. But I did not accept the lab. analysis and got different places for the shots. Thomas, being from zoology, trusted the lab on communication issues. I felt rather comfortable with signals that went through a radio channel and did not need to trust the lab. Thomas made the main discovery, I just corrected some details. I did contact him in the beginning of my study, but he was not interested in my efforts, so I have not contacted him later. I do not know if he agrees with my results.
PeterAUS wrote:
“You are into some things, I am into some things…everyone is into something.
Why is somebody into that “something” is, sometimes, perhaps, more interesting that that “something” itself.”
It is quite simple, so we do not need to discuss it over a beer. Your task is to confuse issues on any site that you believe contains material that touches interests relevant to you. You have an external agenda and it is not finding the truth. First you start by ridiculing the arguments of the other side. If it fails, you go to questioning the motives of the other side. (We are now in this stage.) If even that fails, you start insulting the other side. In all this, you do not show any knowledge of the topic.
On the other hand I worked my whole life in research and now in old age I solve interesting problems from all kind of topics as solving problems is fun. I choose problems from topics where there is a controversy. I do not have any external agenda, just trying to find the correct solution.
The Secret Service driver of JFK’ s car in Dallas, Greer, was an Ulster Protestant who had been a member of the Orange Order in his youth.
I am skeptical about celebrity true love. Tracey and Hepburn were not what we were led to believe.
The route through Dealey Plaza was in violation of established Secret Service protocol because of the sharp turns, and reduced speeds in that neighborhood.
Despite numerous and well-known threats against Pres. Kennedy — such as the Wanted for Treason poster, threatening statements by Gen. Walker and other members of the John Birch Society as reported by infiltrator Harry Dean, death threats from other right-wing radicals reported by informant Willie Sommerset, and notwithstanding the physical attack on Adlai Stevenson during his previous visit — the motorcade through Dallas was nevertheless allowed to take place, while the SS failed to secure high rise buildings along the motorcade route, and ignored several reports of men with rifles being observed in downtown Dallas.
In the face of all this ominous information, virtually all of the immediate personal security was stripped away from Pres. Kennedy, leaving him vulnerable to the snipers’ crossfire.
Again, compare the immediate protective action of SS agent Youngblood to shield VP Johnson with his own body with the non-action of agent Kellerman riding shotgun in Kennedy’s limo, and the virtual dead stop in the kill zone by limo driver Greer.
http://www.newsweek.com/drunken-truth-about-jfk-assassination-391613
The entire Secret Service cannot be damned for the fatal decisions and inaction of certain SS agents, but there can be little doubt that SS agents Greer, Kellerman, and Roberts — by their actions or non-actions — must have been in on the plot to some degree.
Thought so.
Zero (practical) experience in firearms, security, intelligence business, crime investigation……topics relevant to the subject.
Firearms in particular.
No prob, on the contrary.
A man has to have a hobby, especially at that stage of life.
Have fun.
To the post by iris with a reference to SS testimonies that two SS men jumped to the car.
I thought about these testimonies but I think that the Zapruder film is not much edited and there was only one SS man who jumped to the car. Probably the SS men are telling what should have happened, and even believing they saw it happen, but it did not happen as the man on JFK’s side was told to stand back. The testimonies are not clear in stating that the car stopped completely. They may mean that it almost stopped for 5-7 seconds and the motorcycle men had to keep their feet on the ground.
As another thing, one of the recent posts reminded me of Jean Souetre. Indeed, he has been even better tied to the shooting than Lucien Sarti and I think Souetre was the one who was in that area at the time of the assassination. Anyway, it is only very few names that have been proposed for shooters. Hunt’s testimony mentions some additional conspirators. Probably all names have already come up over the years.
Rod Hendry, a retired accident investigator, was by his own account looking for a hobby project, became the one whose analysis convinced many people of Amanda Knox’s innocence. He worked with the Italian police’s own crime scene photographs. There are no end to arguments or theories. The expert is always a son of a bitch from out of town because he listens to things instead of people.
I have most of the experience you mention to a sufficient degree, but it is not necessary or even relevant in this issue of discussing the assassination of JFK on an Unz thread. This is not a criminal investigation and will not lead to charges. Therefore experience on crime investigation is unnecessary here.
I understand you are saying that you could not reload and fire a bold action rifle in 3.1 seconds and hit a target if the sight is not adjusted even if you were given information how much the sight is wrong and to which direction. You claim that this feat would be impossible for you.
However, you claim that Oswald did reload so fast and he hit the target without any information where it shoots, though the sight pointed up and right. While you are sure Oswald could do it, though you could not possibly do it, you think that a top sniper, like Lucien Sarti or Jean Souetre could not possibly do it even if they got information where the gun pulled. Logical, isn’t it.
Notice that the shooter in TSBD knew that the sight was twisted (had to know because there was the umbrella man and the dark complexion man ready to give signs) and he could guess that it can only be twisted to the directions LEFT, UP-LEFT, UP, UP-RIGHT and RIGHT (so that JFK will not be hit) and that it is twisted just so much that if he targets to the middle of the head, the bullet misses JFK but only by 1-2 inches, not really more than that. The sight would be twisted just enough and not more than that, as if it points too far off the shooter would notice it.
When getting the signs UP and RIGHT after the first shot, the shooter aimed left and down with the distance from the center of the head 1/2 head+1.5 inches. He did not look at any signs between the second and the third shot, as he already knew where to aim, he could concentrate and he did hit.
I know you could never do this simple trick, but do you not think somebody better could?
Tracy and Hepburn???
“celebrity true love”?
Huh?
Plesase, don’t bother.
Note that the Soviets would be fearful and extremely jumpy if they were being framed . The Soviet Union were joint patsy if Oswald was. Pretty powerful patsy, and not without ability to strike back with a real undercover assassination operation either.
As has long been alluded to in novels including James Elroy’s, LBJ was openly doubtful of a lone gunman
Strange for JBJ to say it was not a lone gunman, because he was immediate;y suspected of involvement by everyone, even many Texans; most of the state thought LBJ was extremely corrupt. Robert Kennedy denied ever telling Johnson to be immediately swore in as pres on Airforce one in Texas, which he did, being with lady Bird in the Airforce 1 presidential bedroom when Jackie walked in (I hope she was spared the sight of ‘Jumbo” or a wife not having to do all the work as JFKs bedroom accessories had to).
Oliver Stone was originally going to do a Ossie-did-it JFK, but switched. People more readily believe in certain stories than others. Hollywood makes films about true love for the same reason it makes films about JFK conspiracies. Hollywood is Skeptikal in the same sense you are. You are not going over the same old ballistic stuff on this thread, I’ll give you that.
Thanks ever so much for the considerate and patient reply; I much appreciate it.
I knew very few details of the Kennedy assassination before reading these fascinating articles in the Unz Review, and some brilliant comments in the thread they generate.
In particular, I learnt about the Dictabelt recording thanks to your comments.
Regarding Don Thomas, he certainly believes that he has proven that the “debunkers” of the HSCA findings are wrong. And one can understand why. The official side, in charge of the cover-up, did not challenge the acoustic pattern identification method (it was accepted and utilised in court, and led to the conviction of policemen in judicial affairs).
What the “debunkers” challenged was the statistical correlation calculated. To which Don Thomas and others replied:
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Acoustics_Evidence.html
(In one article, Thomas details their method, which was not so random: they did match the acoustic patterns to the evolving position of one particular patrolman, which is maybe why they could reach the confidence level they set for.)
I am an agnostic about the acoustic method: only, it is accepted in principle by the side in charge with the cover-up. So they cannot use it when it suits them, but reject it when they don’t like the findings.
In our background, I think that we never rely on any result being brought about by empirical or experimental methods. The only exception I can think of, please correct me if I am wrong, is Fluid mechanics.
Signal identification in the time domain can be neither practical, nor fully accurate. This is precisely why the Fourier and Laplace transforms were invented in the first place, and why frequency-based methods are overwhelmingly used in signal processing.
Using the FFT as you did is uncomparably more scientific, it is not even comparable, in fact, as you use a recognised mathematical method, while they used an ad-hoc , limited, experimental method.
But it is possible that time-based signal identification works within a limited context, with a limited number of variables. It is a dummy, laborious way of working, but it may produce the level of confidence they were seeking.
Regarding D. Thomas not being interested in your articles, I am very sorry for him, if indeed he is a truth-seeker.
The people analysing the Dictabelt recording should be people like yourself, with an electronics/telecom/controls/signal processing background, and specialised in audio signal processing in particular. Period.
No, you do not understand.
You do not understand because you have minimal real life experience with rifle marksmanship.
What you, as researcher, apparently, can’t get in your mind are two very simple things:
A competent shooter will ensure that his rifle is properly zeroed.
Believing that a top sniper would execute a crucial shot knowing that his rifle is not properly zeroed is lunacy. I get that. You desperately want to believe in something so you twist facts to suit your belief. That’s fine. You just need to draw the line somewhere, even for a hobby.
More importantly, no spotter in this Universe could have seen the impact of those shots.
In your Universe, no problem.
Also, in your Universe that spotter saw the impac(s), calculated the correction and communicated that to the shooter, the shooter shifted the aim for that correction and pulled the trigger …all that in, what, 3.1 seconds.
O.K.
In your Universe.
In this one: you…….are…………crazy………
Of course, for resident cooks.
What I think is that no spotter in this Universe could have seen the impact, calculated the correction, communicated that to the shooter and he pulled the shot having that correction shifted….in 3.1 seconds.
C……….r…………..a…………..z………….y.
Better?
You mean the ultimate conspiracy which couldn’t have provided a properly sighted rifle?
Or the top class sniper who would go for THAT job knowing that the rifle is not properly zeroed?
Let alone the very concept of “too many moving parts…”
And you believe all that.
You aren’t even aware how crazy all that sounds.
You know, sometimes I do think that there is a logic, even intent, behind your types spamming similar discussions.
True, 80 % are just cooks, but not so sure about the rest 20.
Either way sure method to prompt normal people to stop paying attention to the topic.
“the Zapruder film is not much edited”
The interesting thing is how “much” it was edited and why. Possibly, some alternate frames were removed at the time of the head shot. This would not be noticed by the viewer, but would quite smartly and efficiently hide the limousine slowing down/stopping.
Did you notice that the SS agent tried to jump on the back of the limousine from quite close, but then surprisingly missed the standing platform, and had to run to catch up with the car? Why was that? Because the limousine suddenly accelerated from a still position?
“one of the recent posts reminded me of Jean Souetre”
As a member of the illegal OAS organisation, Jean Souetre was targeted by the French SDECE secret service; he was impersonated by Michel Mertz in illegal activities, for the purpose of compromising and getting rid of the OAS. Your first guess (Lucien Sarti) is probably correct.
A girlie mag gave away a disk with the Dictaphone recording and an aspiring/ aging rock drummer played it to death ( not immediately after purchase as he was otherwise engaged) and noticed some anomalies. That was how the whole thing started.
“If even that fails, you start insulting the other side”
Well, that’s interesting, because even though I had never exchanged with him, PeterAUS called me a prostitute a the first stage in one of his posts.
Every thing is relative: at least, he finds you interesting enough to try and engage with you before insulting you
Echo analysis,as the lab did, is perfectly fine as a method, but the problem is the motorcycle noise. It covers all echos and creates so many new peaks that finding a particular echo pattern from this noisy data becomes random matching.
I tried to make similar echo analysis as they did using the echo peaks that they had calculates to the shots that I Identified. I used fewer echo peaks than they did, as echo peaks get smaller and smaller and the smallest are difficult to notice from the background. The microphone, loudspeaker, channel system creates some background.
I did like this, the same as they did: it is in the end of the second paper. In a calculated time distance from the shot there should be an echo peak, check if there is a peak. Check the whole peak pattern for possible shooter places: TSBD and the Grassy Knoll.
This method is should work even when there is motorcycle noise. The echo peak is created by sounds with certain frequencies and the mean of the amplitude is zero, so the amplitude oscillates to both sides of zero. Motorcycle noise also has peaks but the frequencies are not quite the same as in the echo of a gunshot. Therefore a peak from motorcycle noise will not at least fully cancel a peak from echo. The echo peaks must be there, so checking the echo pattern can support or reject the assumption of the shooter position. But echos can be partially covered by nearby peaks from the noise or beeps or something else, so that the signal does not have a local peak. This is not perfect.
What I got is:
1) The echo patterns from the shots at 52.5s and 58.8s match TSBD and do not match the Grassy Knoll.
2) The recording has peaks that match echo peaks from a hypothetical shot at 58.9s coming from the Grassy Knoll. But the assumption that there was a shot at 58.9s must be established from the Zapruder film. This hypothetical shot cannot have come from TSBD.
3) 55.6s echos do not match TSBD, but there is a strong beep that may confuse this analysis.
4) 53.2s echos match TSBD, but it cannot be the same gun as the frequency spectrum is different, so another gun from the back.
5) 53.8s I did not analyse, the signal does not have a fat tail, so usually I dropped it.
Thus, echo analysis can be made to these shots, but first you must find the shots. With the exception of 55.6s the results are as they should be.
“A competent shooter will ensure that his rifle is properly zeroed.
Believing that a top sniper would execute a crucial shot knowing that his rifle is not properly zeroed is lunacy.”
You do not start from the facts of the case. The rifle found in the TSBD had a defective sight that pulled up and right. There were three casings and the gun had been fired. There were two strange people: the umbrella man lifting the umbrella and the other man raising his hand, later they went to sit on the grass. You have to explain these facts.
1) The shooter came with two rifles (why?) and left the one with a defective sight to the TSBD to frame Oswald, or Dallas police took a rifle with a defective sight to the building and hid the rifle Oswald actually had used (why?). The umbrella man and the other man were just demonstrating.
If you find these alternatives too absurd, then you are left with the following:
2)If the rifle found is the rifle used, then a shooter who was capable of firing 3 times in a shot time and hitting JFK to the head had indeed used a defective sight. Now you have a competent shooter who did not ensure that his rifle is properly zeroed. There are two alternatives. The shooter hit the head by a lucky shot or the umbrella man and the other man gave signs to him to correct the aim. A competent shooter would prefer the second alternative.
So, this is the case as it is when we start from the facts. Why did the rifle have a defective sight? We can be sure that a competent shooter did not come there with such a rifle. Somebody else took the gun there and the gun was supposed to be fine, but instead it was defective. This means that the person who took the gun there wanted to abort the mission, he was in an abort team. But the shooter knew that the gun was defective as he knew that there would be the umbrella man. They did not want to kill the abort team man before the assassination, maybe because his death would have caused someone to tell about the assassination plan. The plan had to go as planned, that day, that way, but Oswald had to think he would manage to abort the mission. This is why the shooter agreed to shoot with a defective sight, that he was sure he can do.
“More importantly, no spotter in this Universe could have seen the impact of those shots.”
When I was shooting in the army the officers, any officer, could immediately say if my shot went up and right. They did not need to calculate any angle, they just said that it missed the target to a certain direction. Went up, went down. How much the aim can be twisted can be guessed, only the direction was not known. These officers could be close to the targets, or with binoculars next to me. They saw where the bullet hit and where it did not hit from seeing the hole, puff of sand, movement etc. The bullet must have passed JFK’s head rather close assuming the shooter was competent. Look at the magic bullet pictures form the web, you see where a bullet aimed close to the head should land. It lands to the car and makes a hole that you can see by standing close by.
I see that in your Universe spotters do not look at holes, they try to see a flying bullet. Well, you have things to learn from shooting if you think so. You look at the hole, movement, puff of sand, something. And you look where it did not go, this way by excluding you get the missing direction: saw nothing, must have gone far up. I am getting a bit bored to explaining to you.
Let me still make a different suggestion. The TSBD shooter must shoot with a rifle with defective aim. In the car with JFK are driving people, whom he should not shoot. Thus, he does not aim at JFK in the first shot. The first round he shoots at a target. The dark complexion man puts to the ground close to him a bag or something serving as a target. The shooter aims at the center of the target. The bullet hole tells the dark complexion man precisely where the bullet hit. To the next two rounds the TSBD shooter knows quite well where to aim from the signs. The second round he misses as he has too little time, on the third one he hits. In this version there is no whatsoever problem for the spotter to see where the bullet went. We know that the shooter used a gun with a defective sight, so the argument that a shooter would not use such a gun is mute.
Hmm seeing Bobby was never in Texas at the time(according to the book Brothers) its rather difficult that he ever told LBJ anything,but then again anything to muddy the waters…!!
He spoke to RFK on the phone, but at least you are not still going on about the ballistics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_inauguration_of_Lyndon_B._Johnson
Superb interview with Evan Thomas about the Warren Comission cover up, Cuba, Bobby, the Mafia and the CIA.
Can I make a suggestion? Give this a rest. You’re embarrassing yourself.
Why is that?
Both a Mauser and a .22 were seen in the TSBD in the days preceding the assassination, and there is nothing to rule out the possibility that other weapons were used in the assassination.
Nobody (but you) “knows” any such thing, and the word is “moot” not “mute.”
Your entire wearisome argument — including the bizarre and unworkable umbrella signaling and sighting correction scheme — rests on the false premise that the faulty Manlicher-Carcanno was the weapon originally found in the alleged “sniper’s nest” on the 6th floor of the TSBD, when that weapon was identified as a Mauser by four Dallas cops, including the chief of police. At least two of the cops based their ID on the manufacturer’s imprint “Mauser” stamped into the weapon, so there could be no mistake.
Thus, all the discussion about the capabilities of the MC with its faulty scope is entirely moot.
However, the process by which the Mauser transmogrified into the MC is itself strong indication of evidence tampering by certain members of the Dallas PD — not to exclude other parties — which implicates those cops as accessories after the fact in the murder and public execution of President Kennedy, and which additionally strongly supports the theory that President Kennedy was killed as the result of a widespread conspiracy.
Only Roger Craig refused to change his story about the Mauser. Later, Craig died of that peculiar event known as suicide by rifle — even though Roger Craig owned pistols.
Finally, the spotty paper trail linking Oswald to the MC via Alek Hidell is strong evidence of a widespread conspiracy to frame a patsy.
Sound advice.
Won’t work, of course. He’ll explain all that to you shortly. Have fun.
In meantime, what could be interesting in this and similar “discussions” is how come that, apparently, a civil and educated, mature man, can follow that train of….thought.
What drives them to the topic and, more importantly, what drives them to …think….that way.
Not because of them, no.
It’s because we could have neighbors, work colleagues, acquaintances, of the same, ahm, mindset.
Or, much worse, professionals we seek help or/and service from.
Imagine a G.P. of that type.
Or Uni Professor, or…list goes on. “j2″ did mention some “research”. What kind of research was…IS..that? Did he use the same, ahm, method, when doing his research?
Retired cook is O.K.
Employed cook is another matter altogether.
Yes, you can take that way out. It you assume MC rifle was used, they you get to the bizarre theory I wrote, and to avoid it you say the rifle was Mauser and then changed and you get to a wide-spread conspiracy. Anyway you have a conspiracy and about the same suspects. I will leave this topic to you.
Except for the part where the bullets and fragments recovered from JFK are forensicly identified as being fired by the Mannlicher-Carcano, landing grooves and all — plus the cartridges on the floor as well.
You conspiracy theorists are over-the-top nuts. The absurd nonsense spewed by j2 is based entirely upon pure fiction invented 10 years after the event, based on fantasies created and/or invented after the event.
Is gasoline 20-cents a gallon in your alternate reality?
“You conspiracy theorists are over-the-top nuts. The absurd nonsense spewed by j2 is based entirely upon pure fiction invented 10 years after the event, based on fantasies created and/or invented after the event.”
Well, eminent philosopher Bertrand Russell was also an “over-the-top nut” who expressed the same “conspiracy nonsense” and similar distrust of the official proceedings as early as September 1964:
http://22november1963.org.uk/bertrand-russell-1 6-questions-on-the-assassination
But obviously, how can Bertrand Russell, philosopher, mathematician, logician, historian, and Nobel Prize laureate, compare to the superior minds and accomplished professionals who seem to spend their entire life on this thread insulting others…
The cartridges on the floor, in the words of Roger Craig:
In other words, the cartridges on the floor are obviously planted evidence.
Now, about that
Would you be so kind as to provide a source for your assertion? I ask because according to the HSCA:
(my transcription, editing & bold)
http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/pdf/HSCA_Vol7_F1_Introduction.pdf
It seemed very suspicious at the time (1933) in the minds of almost everyone that a lone commie nut was responsible for the Reichstag fire, and Hitler becoming dictator as a result. There Now most everyone can agree it was a lone nut with commie leanings who burned it..
There was nothing odd about wondering about the things Russell wondered about back in 1963, everybody was. Why even Robert DeNiro’s first film, made in 1963, has a sequence in which a girl passes out and he takes off her blouse and bra– and then starts using her to investigate the ballistics of the JFK assassination. As early as that it was all being talked about by perfectly reasonable people, and some of those who still talk about this ballistic business may be quite reasonable, but most of them are very far from normal or observing the ground rules of debate. In the early 60′s Russell and others were aware of the vast majority of the ballistic and chain of evidence points being made on this thread in ever other comment, (although the “how” is off topic for this post in case you have forgotten). As the song goes once a story has been told it cannot help but grow old.
The new information is we now know things were being covered up about the CIA, the mafia, Cuba and JFK in order to protect his (anf Robert’s) reputation. It was Robert Kennedy’s choice to cover up those things and the Warren Comission was covering up similar things and ignoring anomalies for similar reasons as Evan Thomas discovered in research for his book. Most recently the things the CIA did not want publicized and kept hidden for several decades were declassified by Trump and revealed to be to be largely about Soviet Russia and Cuba. They had been worried about the public getting the US into a war over the assassination. Robert Kennedy, who knew, wanted to keep quiet John F.Kennedy’s involvement in an actual assassinations of the president of Vietnam and plots including ones with the Mafia, to assassinate Castro coming out in the inquiries into his assassination; RFK knew about the most of these things because he had been in charge of them.
Bullshit. Pure bullshit. You and the rest of the wackies are pure fucking nuts.
Don’t say…..
But, as long as they keep at it here, no harm done.
Imagine if this, ahm, “mindset” spills out in the real world.
Much better to have them offload all…. that….. into their echo chambers on sites like this.
For everyone.
I was going to follow ians’ suggestion and not to comment this thread any more, but peterAUS just could not stop his style of writing, so I comment this Mauser suggestion by Spartakon.
I was going to follow ians’ suggestion and not to comment this thread any more, but peterAUS just could not stop his style of writing, so I comment this Mauser suggestion by Spartakon.
In favor of this hypothesis are three weak facts:
1) Several policemen said that the rifle was Mauser. This can be that one read the name Man…, another understood/remembered it as Mauser, other heard Mauser from him.
2) Casings were like placed on the floor. Can be that the assassin collected them after shooting, but then remembered that he was supposed to leave the rifle, or decided to leave the rifle, and he put the casings back to the floor.
3) One policeman who said the rifle was Mauser died by a suicide. It may be that he thought the rifle was changed, started to investigate the issue and was murdered because of investigating it, but the rifle may not have been changed. It was just that it was a conspiracy and not to be investigated.
Three stronger facts are against the hypothesis:
1) Fragments of the bullet from JFK’s head were from this MC, a were the casings.
2) The sniper missed the first shot, untypical for a good sniper and there was a conspiracy, the sniper had to be good.
3) If the rifle was changed, it was changed by police. If they changed the rifle it was to frame Oswald. Why did they not place clear fingerprints from Oswald to the rifle, they had both Oswald and the rifle and wanted to frame him.
Thus, the sniper shot JFK to the head with MC, which had a defective sight. This is a very curious situation and because it is a so unusual situation, you should start from it. Make the scenario: why would a sniper shoot with a defective gun? How can he hit to the head with a defective gun? As it is a conspiracy and there is a cover-up, the sniper must have been good.
That it was a conspiracy is proven by the Dictabelt: there are three quite certain shots. 52.5s, 53.2s and 58.8s, the last is the head shot. The time between the two first is impossibly short for the MC.
You did not like my scenario, fine. Take this very curious situation and make your own scenario. It is very good to find a strange situation as strange situations do not allow many explanations. There has to be an explanation that explains all facts, or you argue that some facts must be wrong and then reconsider if they are wrong, or if the scenario just must be so. Go where it leads.
By the way. I forgot that never make word plays with natives, in any case, when there is a cover-up and nobody should talk, the case is mute, not moot.
“Or Uni Professor, or…list goes on. “j2″ did mention some “research”. What kind of research was…IS..that? Did he use the same, ahm, method, when doing his research? ”
If so interested, why don’t you find my cv from the linked website and put my name to scholar.google.com or to http://www.researchgate.net?
I will make it simple, so you understand it:
1-Too many wounds, not enough bullets.
2-The Warren Commission own self-defeating experiment: meet the “magic bullet”, to the left, or the impossible pristine condition that could never be replicated in real life.
http://www.jfk-info.com/fragment.htm
3- And in case you still haven’t understood;
https://pelleneroth.wordpress.com/2016/11/12/the-magic-bullet-conundrum/
Firstly, I hope that you continue posting your comments. They definitely are thought-provoking and intelligent, and constitute a great change from the stupidity, drivel, poor humour, narcissism that has become the norm in Western press.
I read the press in English from other parts of the world: Russia, China, the Middle-East. It is plain to see how catastrophically low the intellectual level has become in Western press. It is just pathetic. This in turn reflects on the readers, and shows on their comment (assuming they are genuine commentators).
In addition to the propaganda having reached terminal levels of stupidity, there is another fact to consider. There has been a major crackdown on opinion threads, I would say around 2012. We used to be able to have dissident online discussions until about the 2011 NATO attack on Libya. After that , even this ridiculously tiny freedom was taken away. Most newspapers suppressed discussion threads, or overtly applied a very biased censorship.
The Unz Review is an exception, certainly in its intentions. In practice, I am very cynical about why the authorities let such a site exist: I think that they need to fine-comb the Internet to find and remove compromising information. They also need to refine their propaganda by knowing and prepare counter-arguments to dissident opinions.
Living in the Western world has become suffocating, but does not represent the reality of tomorrow’s world. There is nothing wrong in pursuing Truth to prepare for tomorrow. Billions of people are preparing for a tomorrow outside the Anglo-Zionist decadent empire.
Finally, English is my third language and I don’t feel I have to apologise for my English being rubbish. This site is not about litterature.
You are too kind, but I think it is time for me to leave this site. All the best to you!
Who cares where they keep it? It’s “no harm done” no matter where they bleat this hogwash. It is utter bullshit, pail to handle.
In which lifetime was Russell a criminal forensics investigator?
Nice guy, Russell. Now, give me a rundown of how his most cherished theories were readily disproved by Strawson and Godel.
Also, if you would demonstrate a factor for me, please … ? How does the opinion of 8 Dallas good-old boys from 1963 thinking the Mannlicher-Carcano was a Mauser … how does that turn the actual weapon used into a Mauser? How? How did 8 country-boy cops thinking an MC looks like a Mauser make it into a Mauser?
How do the positions of cartridge cases on a floor prove they were planted?
How does the sights being found “off” AFTER the fact in any way support the notion they were “off” BEFORE the fact? How do 6.5mm MC rounds, microscopically identified as being fired from the MC, turn into Mauser bullets?
I’m sure you’re a nice person and all, but your conspiracy theories are delusional.
“But the assumption that there was a shot at 58.9s must be established from the Zapruder film.”
There is something else that supports this assumption, and that is James Files testimony.
The frequency analysis method identifies six shots, happening at :
52.2, 53.2, 53.8, 55.6, 58.8 and 58.9.
In his testimony, Files states that he was to act only as a back-up for Ch. Nicoletti, in case the snipers shooting from the back did not succeed in hitting the President’s head.
Files counted the shots (4 shots), before ascertaining that no headshot had been delivered, and deciding to shoot. He aimed at the President’s right eye, but the head moved forward within a fraction of a second, so he shot him on the right temple instead. Files is convinced that a 5th shot was delivered a fraction of a second before his (at 58.8), while his shot would be recorded at 58.9.
Also, Files is adamant that Nicoletti had been firing from the Dal-Tex (the building opposite the TSBD). This would not be surprising: there were several teams of hitmen hired for the assassination, as many known faces were seen on the day at Dealy Plaza, including the little publicised presence of Jim Braden, a Meyer Lansky man.
https://www.amazon.com/Killers-at-Dallas-Phil-Doherty/dp/1499076304
So the shots from the back (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th) could have come from either the TSBD or the Dal-Tex Building.
The 6th shot would have happened almost instantaneously with the 5th, and would have been delivered by James File.
From your beloved MSM:
“Oswald had no time to fire all Kennedy bullets”
Harvey Oswald could not have acted alone in assassinating President John F Kennedy, according to a new study by Italian weapons experts of the type of rifle Oswald used in the shootings.
In fresh tests of the Mannlicher-Carcano bolt-action weapon, supervised by the Italian army, it was found to be impossible for even an accomplished marksman to fire the shots quickly enough.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1556184/Oswald-had-no-time-to-fire-all-Kennedy-bullets.html
President Kennedy’s assassination – Connecting the dots
In his confession of murdering the President as part of a hit job, James Files states that the assassination contract job came up 6 month before Dallas, and was planned to take place in Chicago. It was cancelled at the last minute, because the Chicago mob was already under heavy crackdown and dreaded the consequences.
So the assassination contract job came up around the same time President Kennedy threatened Israel about the Dimona nuclear facility, and Ben Gurion resigned to “take care” of Kennedy, in June 1963.
Delusional thinking. Two bullets struck Kennedy, both recovered and conclusively identified as having been fired by the Mannlicher-Carcano.
Incontrovertible fact. Indeed, Aristotelian proof: material, formal, efficient, final.
Saying something ain’t so don’t make it not so.
That was a statement by weapon experts, not my opinion. See the link I attached.
So you know better than weapon experts working under supervision of the Italian military?
And you call people delusional?
The Kennedy assassination – Connecting the dots.
As per James Files’ confession, the lethal shot to President Kennedy’s head was delivered by the Chicago Mob hitmen commissioned for the assassination.
A short time before the House Select Committee was due to start its hearings and was calling people to testify , all three prominent figures of the Chicago mob got successively executed within a short period of time: Giancana in 1975, Roselli in 1976 and Nicoletti in March 1977.
Iris, for GOD’s sake, it’s been done a dozen times, even though it maketh not a rat’s tushy worth of difference. The time is irrelevant, because the time was SUFFICIENT, because ONLY 6.5mm bullets from Oswald’s MC were found in the body and car. Conclusively identified, more than once.
Now, personally, does it make any difference to me if you choose to believe utterly absurd conspiracy theories?
Nope.
Bye now.
Unz Review:
Nice policy, if only it were enforced.
On July 15, 2018 at 1:37 am GMT, Dillon Sweeny wrote:
http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-ii-who-did-it/#comment-2416924
Lo! For any controversial topic at UR like 9/11 or JFK’s assassination, I guess this is the quality and tone we have to expect, even after two weeks.
Instead of any kind of factual reply to my polite request of Sweeny to provide a source to support his assertion, Sweeny responded with vulgarities and insults, most likely because that’s all he’s got.
I gave Sweeny a fair chance, and he blew it, so I’ll simply add him to my growing “ignore” list, stick to the high ground, and move on.
Unless UR intends to enforce it, I think the web magazine should remove the cautionary note about comments on articles more than two weeks old being “judged much more strictly on quality and tone” because it creates the false impression that this is a civilized venue for discussion, when — unfortunately — it is not.
Poor you.
“Enforced” comments policy, a?
What’s the problem?
If you don’t like the comment/poster skim the post, skip it, or even put the poster on “ignore”.
Free speech mister.
You are so stupid…yes….fucking stupid…that you can’t even comprehend that’s exactly how the “progs” got to own the public sphere.
You can post your stuff, as far as I am concerned, until you drop dead.
Don’t even mind skimming through it. Not for the contents itself, of course. For the…ahm….method and mindset producing them.
Keep at it…….
When Jewish gangster Dutch Schultz started talking about killing prosecutor Thomas Dewey
http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/at-any-cost/
There is only one existing Magic Bullet, and it had no traces of fibers, blood, or tissue of any kind, and thus could not have hit or passed through anyone, let alone travel along the entirely unbelievable and completely impossible path through both Pres. Kennedy and Gov. Connally allegedly causing a total of seven wounds.
http://www.jfklancer.com/fragtest.html
‘Rather curious choice of words, isn’t it? ‘Not necessary to change it in any way for what?
In fact, the current Magic Bullet is probably not even the same bullet originally found at Parkland:
https://www.history-matters.com/essays/frameup/EvenMoreMagical/EvenMoreMagical.htm
You are OT, part 2 is not about the mechanics of the assassination and Warren commission.
To get back to who did it: As president John F. Kennedy had the South Vietnamese president assassinated, and tried to have Fidel Castro assassinated (Robert Kennedy was in charge of killing Castro). Live by the sword …
Really?
The author Ron Unz himself talked about the Warren Commission six different times in this part of his two-part article, in three places even calling it a “cover-up,” so was he OT too?
Indeed, the term “Warren [Commission]” has appeared in at least 40 earlier comments under Part II, and I note that while you’ve already made one abortive attempt to shut down discussion upstream, other commenters here have scolded you for trying to play bossy-ass thread nanny, without getting utu’s permission, or without even having an awesome gold border around your comment either, but here you are again, asking for another drubbing.
You really should get your facts straight before trying to play thread nanny, but there’s always the chance our esteemed host Mr. Ron Unz will take notice of your stalwart efforts, despite your flubs, and may even keep you in mind should an intern or other trainee position open up, but in the meanwhile you’ll just have to content yourself with being an ineffectual nanny and a misinformed nag.
And anyway, it’s a fairly arbitrary divide between what happened, and who did it, isn’t it? I suppose when the bullets are halfway there you’d like to have us switch from who-did-it mode, to what-happened mode, and of course you would like to be the final authority about these mode swings. Is that about it?
If the Warren Report was a whitewash, or “cover-up,” then the Warren Commissioners may have been accessories after the fact in the murder of the President, and it is therefore entirely appropriate to explore their actions and/or inactions in the quest to find out “Who did It?”
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accessory_after_the_fact
You’re wrong too about JFK being responsible for Diem’s murder. Excerpts from recently declassified documents in the National Security Archive make that clear:
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB101/index.htm#doc17
Diem himself was stooge from the start, brought in to help legitimize and stabilize the entirely bogus and artificial proxy state of RVN, in which task he was reasonably successful over several years 1955-1963, given bags of American moola, and buckets of Vietnamese blood, but the worst was yet to come.
If you as leader of a gang authorise a bank robbery and someone is murdered in the course of it, you can hardly evade responsibility. Kennedy signed off on a military coup in South Vietnam a nation at war. Lyndon Johnson told many people that Kennedy’s assassination was due to his having authorised the coup against Diem.
“Eventually”! John F.Kennedy signed his own almost immediately executed (and RFK’s) death warrant by pulling that stunt, which came on top of their attempts to overthrow/assassinate Castro and, it seems to me, may well have made anyone sympathetic to Castro see JFK as so totally ruthless in killing other countries’ leaders in order to fight international communism that he would surely assassinate Castro in due course.
In his explanation for Dallas, LBJ was guilty of character assassination, but the charge was essentially true. The spectre that Lyndon Johnson repeatedly raised, of JFK’s death having directly followed from that of the preceding murder of the Diems weeks before, has a certain logic. Many readers of newspapers must have realised that JFK had killed one supposedly allied foreign leader, and was now surely after the blood of an avowed enemy called Fidel.
What was Castro’s involvement in the revolting murder of President Kennedy? NONE.
In RFK Jr’s beautiful book “American Values”:
” Howard Hunt told his son that he met with the CIA’s leading anti-Castro operatives Frank Sturgis and David Morales in a CIA safe house in Miami to discuss the “big event” shortly beforehand—a plan to kill Jack.
On the day Uncle Jack was assassinated, Fidel Castro was meeting with Jean Daniel at his summer presidential palace in Varadero Beach. At one p.m. they received a phone call with news that Jack had been shot. “Es una mala noticia,” Castro said to himself.
Then, turning to Daniel, “There is the end to your mission of peace. Everything is going to change.” When the news came twenty minutes later that Jack was dead, Castro called it “a catastrophe.” Then he asked Daniel: “Who is Lyndon Johnson? What authority does he have over the CIA?” Hearing that American authorities were in hot pursuit of a suspect, Castro told Daniel, “You watch and see—I know them—they will try to put the blame on us for this thing.”
And he was right. According to investigators on the House Select Committee on Assassinations, immediately following Jack’s assassination, operatives in the CIA’s Western Hemisphere Division promoted evidence—later proven false—suggesting that Castro had orchestrated President Kennedy’s assassination. The Senate’s Church Committee, which investigated the assassination for two years from 1975 to ’77, concluded that Cuba had nothing to do with Jack’s murder. Dan Hardway, an attorney who served as investigator for the House Committee, told me that the source of virtually every story blaming Castro was connected to the CIA’s Western Hemisphere chief and propaganda guru, David Atlee Phillips.”
Castro could not make the cover-up . Simple as that. As is WTC, so is JFK and so is Holocaust and many more.
Was James Files photographed leaving the Grassy Knoll after delivering the fatal head shot to President Kennedy?
In this well known photo, Umbrella Man and Dark Complected Man, the two assassination watchers, are sitting calmly while everybody else runs in panic in the aftermath of JFK’s murder
Similarly, a distinct silhouette of a man with a hat can be seen behind them, to the right, leaving calmly the Grassy Knoll where a crowd, on the contrary, will soon converge, as this is were the shooting noise came from.
What could explain such “strange ” behaviour? Professional hitman training and instructions.
James Files in his own words:
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/figure.htm
“Is James Files’ confession of being President Kennedy’s assassin credible?”
James Files first made his confession of being the hitman who delivered the head shot in 1993. After decades of silence, and while incarcerated in an Illinois prison, he is said to have been shaken by the very strange death of Joe West, a Dallas private investigator who had befriended him.
Joe West had successfully presented a lawsuit for JFK’s body to be exhumated in order to prove a conspiracy when he died a mysterious death at only 60 years old.
After Files made his confession, several people unknown to him came forward and unequivocally corroborated material elements of his story;
- Chauncey Holt confirmed that he had driven hitman Ch. Nicoletti to Dallas for the assassination.
- In 2004, Robert “Tosh” Plumlee, a pilot for the CIA, confirmed that he had flown J. Roselli to Dallas in a military plane, believing that he was bringing in an abort team.
- In 2003, Judyth Vary Baker, a friend/girlfriend of Oswald back in New-Orleans, confirmed that the controlling hand of David Atlee Philipp, a CIA black operation officer, was over both Files. She recalled Oswald telling her that he was part of an abort mission to prevent the President’s assassination.
Is Files telling the truth? His story is compelling and plausible, whether the events he describes occurred to him or to somebody else.
Why is this confession not even mentioned in the media?
James Files busted again. Hard evidence shows he is a BS artist and a hoaxer.
Thanks to some determined research by Allan Eaglesham, we know that the design on the headstamp of .222 cartridges found by Rademacher in Dealey Plaza was not used by Remington-Peters until the 1970s.
Rademacher’s .222 R-P cartridges with the “short dash.”
Drawing of ‘long dash’ R-P cartridges with 12-30-1970 revision to “short dash”
Later, Mr. Eaglesham contacted “George Kass, who maintains a database on headstamps that many law-enforcement agencies rely on for information on cartridges and cartridge cases associated with crimes” who verified that the cartridge cases found by Rademacher were not manufactured until the 1970s.
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/james_files_phony.htm
Files’ story is a hoax. He tailored it to publicly available information and a piece of physical evidence – the dented Remington .223 shell casing recovered years later from a location only vaguely related to the purported location of the fence line shot – that turned out not to be evidence at all. Bunt markings on the casing proved that it was produced long after the assassination. Shell casings salted into in Dealey Plaza are a common prank. Most of them don’t fool anybody.
Sam Giancana, who was something of a father figure for files in their long association, may have provided Files with inside information that he used to lend a ring of truth to his story. Files may even have been a gofer in some aspect of the conspiracy. But his story of being a shooter is bunk.
Correction (thanks to Sparkson): The Rademacher casing is in caliber .222, not .223.
“Sam Giancana, who was something of a father figure for files in their long association, may have provided Files with inside information”
Wrong. The mob figure James Files was associated with was Charles “Chuck” Nicoletti.
You pretend to debunk “stories” but can’t manage to have even the basic information right.
Yet another instance of “looking for the lost money under the streetlight,” just like with the Moorman photo.
The only material evidence in Eaglesham’s “debunking” is the drawing of the Remington cartridge.
Assuming that the Remington drawing is authentic and not doctored, which is already a very bold assumption in a case where even the autopsy report is a skilful work of fiction, it is possible that Files/ the real shooter using the Fireball had types of ammunition that were not available to the public yet.
This was the case for the Fireball shotgun itself, about which Files states in his confession that it was a prototype not on sale yet, but made available to the mob hitmen working for the CIA.
This “debunking” of Files would have been much more convincing if it had addressed the testimonies of other real people supporting his story. But it is more difficult to “fake” people than it is to fake a drawing, a paid-for “expert” opinion, a document, an autopsy report, a film recording, a magic bullet, etc…
This argument does not prove that the casing found was not produced before 1963.
The likely explanation is that the factory production line was inspected when the factory was moved in 1970 and it was found that the casing stamp that the machine produced was not exactly the stamp that had been designed in the drawings. Thus, instead of making a change to the machine, they decided to approve a change to the drawing, as the difference had to be removed in some way.
This is the likely explanation because there was no compelling need for the small change of the stamp and in order to change the machine, which costs money, you normally would need to have some reason. This only shows that between 1963 and 1980ies the production line for the casing was once checked against the drawings, a minor error was found and corrected.
It is just too unlikely that 4 years before Files told about the casing somebody went to the Grassy Knoll to place a casing that was in other respect perfect to the confession of Files, but was made 7 years later. Files was in the jail, this would have been a conspiracy, and a conspiracy that failed to find a casing from 1963. Not very likely.
This reminds me of the time in 1980 when I worked in a factory producing electric motors. There was a review of the production line and it found a minor difference between what was produced and what was in the drawings. They decided to change the drawing as it would have been very expensive to do the other way. My co-workers even suggested that I would approve and sign the change as the closest MS engineer, but I did not dare to do it being a temporary worker and they found a correct person to approve the change. I do not think such situations were rare in those old days.
No, both of you are grasping at straws, while seemingly working as a team to prove that Files was a shooter. But all the good evidence shows he’s a BS artist.
Nobody would have a motive to fake that drawing, and anyway, it’s not only the drawing that proves the point, but the ammunition itself that verifies the truth of Mr. Eaglesham’s argument that the “short dash” cartridges “found” by Rademacher were not manufactured until 1971, and therefore played no role in the assassination of Pres. Kennedy.
Photographs of the .222 ammunition show too that
pre-1970s cartridges had “long dash” between R — P
While post-1970s cartridges had
“short dash” between R – P
Additionally, there is the message from cartridge expert George Kass who verified that the cartridge cases found by Rademacher were not manufactured until the 1970s.
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/james_files_phony.htm
Rademacher’s cartridges had the short dash and were manufactured after 1970. They could not have played any role in JFK’s assassination.
A detective agency found that James Files’ phone records show he was in Chicago on 11/22/1963, so he couldn’t have played any role in JFK’s murder either.
Further, Files neglected to mention an accomplice, and witnesses said there were two men behind the fence.
Your determination to prop up Files as a shooter is both curious and noteworthy, but there are way too many holes in his story for it to be anything but BS and a red herring.
I found myself convinced by Gus Russo’s arguments that Oswald, in cahoots wth Cuban intelligence agents, was the sole assassin. Very likely that’s because like everyone who knows only what we read about this subject, we are inclined to believe what we read. Until someone comes up with rock-solid positive evidence that someone else was involved, I’ll stick with the simplest solution: Oswald did it.
“Your determination to prop up Files as a shooter is both curious and noteworthy”
Please, do not try to imply motives and intentions where there are none. Just stay with the facts.
Your arguments may not be as strong as you claim they are:
- Files may not have been the shooter, but his story may be essentially correct.
- with so much cover-up in this case, each argument has to be very carefully evaluated.
About the stamp argument:
An expert states is that in his collections of publicly available casings the stamp changed in 1970ies.
Drawings have a change in 1970ies.
The machine making each stamps are different.
Do you have a definite proof that the machine producing the newer stamp was built in the 1970ies, or do you only deduce it? As well it could have existed long time earlier but used only for test trials, maybe it had a long development cycle? I once bought from Switzerland a Seiko automatic, that never appeared in Seiko catalogues as their watch. Was it a pirate copy, or was it a less successful model that never made it to the market? I do not know, yet there is about as much information as with these casings.
Was the Zapruder film edited with fake building inserts to hide details of the ambush?
In the “Tina Towner” footage of the President’s limousine turning onto Lower Elm Street, Upper Elm Street can clearly be seen, flanked by the Dal-Tex building to the left, and the County Records building to the right.
In the Zapruder film, Upper Elm Street cannot be seen, and its perspective is blocked by compact buildings.
This discrepancy is illustrated in the photo below, comparing the Upper Elm Street perspective as photographed from the column on which Zapruder was standing, to a frame from the Zapruder film.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4689/39411541901_580a8e7fbb_h.jpg%22
These two perspectives are quite different. Was the Zapruder film edited with fake building inserts taken from further up in Elm Street.
“Was the Zapruder film edited with fake building inserts to hide details of the ambush? (2)
Here is a photo showing the white van that was parked surprisingly close from the motorcade’s route, just next to the Dal-Tex Building:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380691/President-JFK-documentary-alleges-WAS-second-shooter-assassination–Secret-Service-agent.html
Was this van used as a central communication and command centre, allowing communication between shooters at the Dal-Tex building and watchers at the Grassy Knoll?
Photos of one of the Grassy Knoll assassination watchers, Dark Complected Man, with what seems to be a communication radio in his hand:
And another photo with what seems to be a radio tucked at his waist:
I was unaware of these wanted-for-treason posters in relation to JFK:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/11/15/jfk_assassination_flyer_distributed_in_dallas_by_edwin_walker_s_group_before.html
Nicoletti and not Giancana? Even better, since there’s a stronger possibility that he was in on the action.
Per #862:
Looks like my “gofer” hypothesis just went out the window. No harm in changing ideas in response to stuff you didn’t know before, at least if you don’t have your ego wrapped up in what you thought before.
Give it a rest. You had hypothesized that the documentation didn’t reflect the actual headstamp, then we saw a photo of the headstamp that did fit the documentation. A change in headstamp design and a change in machinery are two different things.
As sparkon has pointed out, there is inconsistency between Files’ story and what Bowers observed. There is also inconsistency between Files’ story as to where he took the shot and Rademacher’s account of where the casing was found, and inconsistency between the presence of a fresh shell casing on the fence rail postulated in Files’ story and Sam Holland’s account of finding nothing immediately afterward when he and his crew inspected the location where Files said he was.
Look on the bright side. You’re not the guy who paid good money for an irrelevant piece of brass.
“As sparkon has pointed out, there is inconsistency between Files’ story and what Bowers observed”
As it happens, Lee Bowers’ account of what he saw from the railtrack tower confirms very much the presence of James Files and Charles Nicoletti behind the fence at the Grassy Knoll, shortly before the assassination.
From the Warren Commission reports:
“Mr. BALL – Now, were there any people standing on the high side—high ground between your tower and where Elm Street goes down under the underpass toward the mouth of the underpass?
Mr. BOWERS – Directly in line, towards the mouth of the underpass, there were two men. One man, middle-aged, or slightly older, fairly heavy-set, in a white shirt, fairly dark trousers. Another younger man, about midtwenties, in either a plaid shirt or plaid coat or jacket.”
Ch. Nicoletti was 46, James Files was 21 and wearing a plaid shirt. They well match Bower’ description.
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Lee Bowers also described Chauncey Holt’s car, with Chauncey Holt sat in it:
“I work at North Tower Union Terminal Co. RI-8-4698 [from] 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. Monday thru [sic] Friday. The tower where I work is West and a little north of the Texas Book Depository Building. I was on duty today and about 11:55 a.m. I saw a dirty 1959 Oldsmobile Station Wagon come down the street toward my building. This street dead ends in the railroad yard. This car had out of state license plates with white background and black numbers, no letters. It also had a Goldwater for ’64 sticker in the rear window. This car just drove around slowly and left the area. It was occupied by a middle-aged white man, partly grey hair.”
Lee Bowers died at 41 in 1966, when his car left an empty road.
So you want people to believe that this is just a coincidence? Good luck with that.
It’s turtles all the way down. I just refer to it as Allen Dulles et al.
A very interesting thread.
I was 6 years old in 1963. I remember vividly the assassination, brought on national TV on most European TV stations. My grand parents had a TV and I saw it, and remember it.
My conclusion to this is more a question , than a statement: Why is it, in the US and UK, that incidents, assassinations, etc are always accompanied by unexplainable occurrences, irregularities, witnesses dying and people of very poor character ? Nothing is ever clear cut! Nothing is ever clear, resolvable, explainable.
I do not pretend to know, who shot JFK, but I am in no doubt that we have not heard the truth.
I know a little about shooting. Having done it as a hunter and “professionally”. Shooting with a riffle not zeroed is not a big problem if you know exactly what the deviation is at a certain range, from then on it is just mathematics and a shrpshooter knows his math for a given grain weight. I do. Just makes it a bit harder, but that is often how you compensate for long shots. A riffle that shoots 5 inches up and 2 inches left; I would have no problem hitting a watermelon at 150 meters. The last you want to do is tamper with a 10$ scope, this scope was no Zeiss or Smith & Bender! A trained sharpshooter will neve zero in at an “arbitrary” range, if he expects his target in the 100- 200 , he sets a zero on 200, an so according up range all the way to max.
Sniper school in SAAF often included a taking a rifle zeroed in at 100 m, lying down at a range, with a white target in the distance measuring 1x 1 m, and the instructor telling you: Combatant lien down, side wind 4 m/s , shoot! Your spotter gets the distance and tells : 475 m , you do the maths and shoot, assuming target is in middle bottom of 1×1 m square.
You would the go out there and peel of the double rice paper from target, and you had better had hit the silhouette below.
Done this plenty, also sharp, no silhouette.
An assassin never uses FMJ, nor does a sniper or sharpshooter. You are dead if caught anyway, period. But a softnose assures you of a kill (unarmoured target, head-shot possible) as it completely wrecks people, even bodyshots are lethal and the .308 and 6,5 x ??? are equally lethal up to 800 m. As long as your grains weight dont way most bullets hits the same place ( not over 1000 m) and is negligible.
All this o fcouse just muddles the water, but the bullet presented but the Warren Commission, I doubt very much had anything to do with it. (FMJ roundnose I only have some experience with the 6,5 x 55)
As Sparkon pointed out, Files never said that Nicoletti was with him behind the fence. Files tailored his story to what was then public knowledge. He claimed to be at the location where Holland and crew saw a puff of smoke at the fence, and claimed to have placed the casing on the fence rail at the location Holland and crew inspected within a few minutes of the assassination. He apparently forgot about that detail before he cooked up his story.
Please explain how the Rademacher casing would migrate from the location Files claimed, which was on the car park side of the fence somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 the distance from the underpass to the fence corner, and the garden area in front of the fence near the fence corner where Rademacher found the casing.
Not a bad post.
Having said that, easy to make such post in this sea of crackpottery around.
Re non-aligned scope:
Have you ever thought about this: The rifle in question was knocked around a couple of times so the scope got knocked out of alignment.
I am not saying it was perfectly aligned in the first place; just probably good enough for that type of shot. By Oswald, for that range.
Re this:
You didn’t mention hunters and police (where I agree), makes sense for assassins, but you are dead wrong about (military) snipers and sharpshooters. Especially the latest.
I’ll take an opportunity to (re)iterate my position again:
Oswald was the only shooter.
He was “registered” and monitored, by both CIA and FBI as a person who could, possibly, try to assassinate the President. No action was taken, mainly due to an assessment “he’s just talking….”. And, probably, some people also thought “he’s just talking; if he does pull that good…”.
After that happened everybody whose job was to prevent such event did their best to cover their backs. Everybody else in position of power did their best to play the game of power to their advantage.
Power first….truth the last, if ever. Power.
That could qualify as “conspiracy”….. after the event.
All that muddling created the situation where finding the truth is practically impossible.
As usual with USA internal politics.
“All in all, Piper doesn’t sound like an anti-semite and I can spot one. I believe he is a sincere truthseeker.”
Michael Collins Piper actually wrote a book called “Confessions of an Anti-Semite.” He also was a sincere truthseeker. The truths he uncovered about Jews (Mossad activities, payoffs made to politicians, etc.) are what made him BECOME an anti-semite.
Yes it could have been knocked around, absolutely! But my point was that it did not matter from start, if the shooter knew of the misalignment.
A hit by one of those leave little to doctor on.
Many of the comments here, indicate some people need professional help. BTW where is Wally, he has not pestered us with Holocaust denials? Has he been put on meds?
The .338 Lapua does not need a anything but a FMJ and neither does a 12,7 mm
But back in the day where Sniping was done with .308 or 30-06 it was another matter, both calibers will kill by shock within 150 m , afterwards it is most damage by the bullet.
Going for a head shot (Lethal) at 450 m is not sany (Unless you are a world class shot) you go for torso shot, with maximum damage. Ergo hunting ammunition. Silvertip, Halfmantel, from reliable producers : Norma, RWS, Sako.
I will return: Enjoy your comments, they bear a resemblance of sanity
“After visiting these places, you can easily understand how that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived. He had boundless ambition for his country which rendered him a menace to the peace of the world, but he had a mystery about him in the way that he lived and in the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made.” – JFK
Also, his dad tried to negotiate a peace deal between Germany and London. Israel probably already didn’t like him, and only tolerated him for his easily blackmailed nature. Kind of shows how far we’ve fallen, it used to be that hookers and blow in the white house would be enough to take down a president, but during the Clinton years they practically advertised that he did that. Nowadays it takes pedophile blackmail rings and gay cults to control the elected officials.
Thanks, Anon, adding to my observation on the “tainted” Kennedy family (#347). Very interesting quote from JFK about Hitler. Can you tell us where it comes from?
True.
I concede the scenario:
Oswald prepped the rifle for the shot. He knew the range, elevation, angle, etc and tried, at a range (which was flat) to zero the sight for the shot. He did that not so well (for a couple of reasons) and was aware of misalignment.
Poor handling of the rifle after the event compounded the misalignment.
I can’t say I agree or disagree with your points from “The .338 Lapua….” to “…Norma, RWS, Sako.”.
For a very simple reason.
Very simple.
You/we do not want to educate anyone about that particular topic.
The….certain parties…..will shut down this site in a second if some crackpot shot somebody after some reading on this Web site.
And if they really want to find you, they will.
So, an advice if I may: when compose a post, see could that crackpot use it….and edit out some elements/facts/suggestions/whatever.
People in the know will understand all that with simple hints. The rest, actually, don’t matter.
My two cents.
“Give it a rest. Look on the bright side. You’re not the guy who paid good money for an irrelevant piece of brass.”
OK, we have an attacks again, this time not from Momus, peterAUs, but some new ones. My small contribution to this issue is to of JFK show that what is claimed to be a crosstalk in the Dictabelt is not a crosstalk. Please listen this and think if cutting a real crosstalk to pieces could produce this result (it cannot)
Unlike what you claim, my only suggestion is that this crosstalk is not a crosstalk, which is easily accepted by all honest experts, and the corollary is that the timing of the shots that I suggest is also corrects. Whatever you claim over this is only your imagination, I have not made such claims, I have only made such questions, and questions can always be posed. You talk like a troll, and we do know trolls,.
How the Zapruder film was altered just after the President’s assassination;
ARRB researcher and historian Douglas Horne, with the help of Peter Janney (Author of ” Mary’s Mosaic”), made a great contribution to the JFK truth communityn with his work on the chain of custody and authenticity of the Zapruder film.
He discovered that just after the assassination, 2 compartmentalized operations took place at the National Photographic Interpretation Centre (NPIC), to extract blow-up frames of the assassination.
The first photographic interpretation was carried out by an eminent photographic interpreter, Dino Brugioni, who saw the real film, as it has been seen by very few people.
Mr Brugioni describes how the ” “head explosion” seen in the extant Zapruder film, in the National Archives today, is not at all consistent with the head explosion seen by Mr. Brugioni in the Zapruder film he viewed on the evening of November 23, 1963″
” Mr. Brugioni was quite startled to find out that this was the only frame graphically depicting the “head explosion” in the extant film, which the National Archives has characterized as “the original film.” He insisted that the head explosion he viewed multiple times on 11/23/63 was of such a great size, and duration (in terms of time), that there should be many more frames depicting that explosion than “just the one frame” (frame 313), as shown in the Zapruder film today. Furthermore, he said the “head explosion” depicted in the Zapruder film today is too small in size, and too low in the frame, to be the same graphic depiction he recalls witnessing in the Zapruder film on Saturday, November 23rd, 1963 at NPIC. Mr. Brugioni viewed the Zapruder film as a motion picture several times during the HD video interview I conducted with him on July 9, 2011—using the 1998 MPI DVD product, Image of an Assassination, made by the LMH Co. in 1997 from the film in the National Archives—and reiterated those comments that he made on April 28th to Peter Janney, insisting that “something was missing” from the film in the National Archives today. While viewing the video on July 9, 2011, Mr. Brugioni also stated that the head explosion he viewed was a large “white cloud” that surrounded President Kennedy’s head, and was not pink or red, as shown in the extant Zapruder film.”
http://assassinationofjfk.net/the-two-npic-zapruder-film-events-signposts-pointing-to-the-films-alteration/
How did Mr Brugioni remember so clearly the missing frames showing President Kennedy being shot from the front, whith part of his skull clearly being projected to the left rear?
Because he made blow-ups of these particular frames in a briefing board he produced for the authorities.
These frames are missing from the official film: we just see Mrs Kennedy trying to catch up something which is being projected to the back of the limousine, without this something (the piece of skull) ever appearing on any frame.
Mr Brugioni was a remarkable witness, by his stature, his professional position at NPIC, and his expert credentials. He was never interviewed by the ARRB.
His remarkable interview was captured in Shaun O’Sullivan’s “The Zapruder Film Mystery”.
The evidence of large-scale cover-up is simply overwhelming.
Did Lyndon Johnson duck BEFORE the President was shot at?
In this photo, LBJ should appear in the third limousine, right to his wife sat between him and senator Yarborough. Except that he does not.
LBJ is missing from this famous Altgens photo.
Did Johnson duck into the car because he had exact foreknowledge of where the ambush would take place?
Here is is a rather convincing answer to this legitimate question:
Nicoletti was no kind of boss, he was a simple soldier. Tony Accardo ran the Chicago Mafia, at no time did Giancana have the authority to order even ordinary murders by himself. Giancana and Nicoletti were killed on the orders of Accardo. It is all very hierarchical in the Mafia, that is why they call it organised crime . Carlos Marcello was the only Mafia boss who was independent.
How about Meyer Lansky, did he have any authority at that time, Lucky Luciano being in Italy?
From what I have read the Mafia is a money making organisation in which being a top boss or trusted non Italian associate, means you must act within a hierarchy and respect precedents, consult about everything that might affect others at a similar level. Failure to abide by rules against damaging the collective interests in avoiding investigative attention and notoriety is to invite death. Even Luciano was not free to just the order a politically sensitive killing of a troublesome police commander or prosecutor (not that the mafia did have anyone like that killed) and the only boss who talked of such a thing was immediately killed himself to stop him doing something that would t would damage his peers’ business. I have heard of where a previously trusted advisors came up with hare-brained scheme involving false flag murders and were immediately retired from active involvement
NYC DA Robert Morganthua was another one who asserted Lansky was worth 20 million but had it in other peoples names (AFAIK it is not your money if it is in someone else[s account). It was seriously claimed he was worth 300 million. His family has since had no access to any of these millions, because the money never existed. Lansky the organised crime boss was a media myth, he had been rich through running casinos but after Castro came to power and took the Cuban assets that constituted his wealth Lansky was effectively broke (and why didn’t he have Castro killed, and perhaps get everything back eh?). Lansky was more a fixer and mediator that someone with a power base of his own. He certainly did not control a death squad operation. For comparison , one Sicilian assassin Giovanni Brusca estimated he murdered 100-200 people on behalf of Cosa Nostra chief Toto Riina( who lived as a fugintive for 30 years). Lanskey was a celebrity followed everywhere If Dallas was an off the books operation one wonders how he could have paid for it out of his own pocket because at the time of his death his family discovered his estate was worth less than 60,000 dollars.
I think love makes you blind: being given Lansky was the godfather of money laundring, no wonder his official estate was worth very little at his death.
“Lansky also understood and appreciated the usefulness of foreign countries that provide havens for criminal activities. Later in life, Lansky would hold untold millions in Swiss bank accounts and in banks and corporations in Hong Kong, Israel and throughout South America. He was an expert at exploiting flexible governments and their officials and was never convicted of any charges brought against him.
Today, Lansky can be credited for establishing the modern form of money laundering (described below) and tax evasion. Ironically, the extent and sophistication of his operations may never be fully understood as most of them still remain undetected.”
https://www.anti-moneylaundering.org/money_laundering.aspx
Thanks for your answer, I appreciate it. You know, I bought a book from Cuba with Lansky’s photo on the cover (Castro burned most books, there are no that many books). Lansky was the head of the Havana operation. After Luciano got out of jail (because of mafia’s WWII services to the US in Italy) he went to Cuba, but was ousted, Lansky did not want him, so Luciano went back to Sicily. But you know all this, you just like to confuse, no? So, Lansky, being Jewish, was never in Cosa Nostra, the Italian mafia, but when Luciano was pushed back to Italy, Lansky was the head of the whole Luciano’s empire. That is not all mafia, it is only all of the new mafia, that means, almost all. But you knew it when writing your reply. Thank you very much for your attendance and comments. I do appreciate these kind of honest comments.
How was President Kennedy’s assassination connected to the murder of officer Tippit?
In a recent book, Professor Joseph McBride explores the President’s assasination under the angle of the mysterious murder of officer Tippit, who also was executed in mob style with a shot to the head.
The murder occurred 36 minutes after the President’s assassination, and only 6 blocks away from Jack Ruby’s flat.
Pr McBride was privileged to meet with officer Tippit’s father, who made remarkable revelations:
“Mr. Tippit [father] told me that a Dallas police officer had gone to J. D.’s [officer Tippit] widow, Marie, and said J. D. and he had been sent to hunt down Oswald in the aftermath of the assassination — but that this second officer had not made it because he was in a traffic accident,” McBride says. “I found evidence there was indeed a traffic accident nearby around the time of the shooting. The significance of this is manifold, because at the time, Oswald’s identity, officially, was not known to the Dallas Police Department, which indicates that Tippit was part of a plot to frame or perhaps murder Oswald.”
http://www.sfweekly.com/culture/whodunit-sfsu-professor-joseph-mcbride-finds-a-new-angle-on-the-jfk-assassination/
Pr McBride demonstrates convincingly that both the timing and the balistic evidence prove that LHO did not kill Tippit.
He considers that Oswald was made to believe he was part of an abort team, employed to infiltrate a plot to kill President Kennedy, while in fact programmed to be shot as the fall guy.
This is possibly what Officer Tippit had been tasked to do, which would in turn explain why Tippit was silenced.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dy97bCimb_ug&ved=0ahUKEwijwoTxmbbcAhVBJlAKHdWsDWEQwqsBCC0wAg&usg=AOvVaw1jaPtWtO2dONnSWSGKE9N3
I’m afraid not, for again in the book Brothers he never saw nor spoke to LBJ even when boarding the plane that brought his brother body back, he brushed on by LBJ never uttering a word to comfort his brothers wife,and as for Wikipedia I have little use for them as I do any other propaganda outlet for I have found far to many mistakes in their assumptions rather than fact….!!
It is on the face of it implausible that Lansky, an operator of lucrative casinos, could have been acting supremo of an organisation that by the early sixties has a actual personnel was made up of Italians who had to commit a murder to join and were labour racketeers, pimps and and drugs dealers. Lansky ran casinos for the Mafia in Cuba especially, and Luciano visited there and got photographed (he was a huge celebrity) then the US government had the Cuban government throw Luciano out of the country.
Lets go back to a time when there were actually powerful Jewish gang bosses. We will see that Luciano’s authority in his own criminal enterprises was real but in an Italian organisation Lansky personally had zero authority in interactions with Italian crime bosses was a Wikipedia on Luciano :
So, whhen prosecutor Thomas Dewey seemed likely to put the major league Jewish gangster Dutch Schultz in prison with a aggressive investigation for tax evasion, Shultz wanted to have Dewey killed, but he had to go to the Crime Comission that Luciano had instituted to prevent turf wars and to have them approve of an assassination of Dewey. They killed Shultz, not dewey
The next year Dewey got various women mainly madams, to testify against Luciano, and he was convicted of forcing women into prostitution and sentenced to a minimum of 30 years. There has been a lot of doubt whether the women were telling the truth about actually beieng extorted by Luciano in person. Nonetheless, Dewey and used that and other conviction of top gangsters to become governor of NY, and during his highly successful tenure Buchalter was a fugitive for a year and when he gave himself up he got tried, convicted and the death penalty. Jewish numbers declined in the underworld, and those still involved in organised crime as national commission level forces in the their own right became increasingly rare. So the idea the Lansky could be as arbitrator over all this in the early 60s is implausible. People like to read about such things so books are written to sell by rehashing the old FBN and FBI PR spin suggesting Lansky, who was being constantly followed, headed an invisible empire, but the fact is Lanskey could not even meet his son’s medical bills, and decades after his death it’s clear his family can’t still be waiting to spend the wealth they would have inherited from a supreme boss.
(Dewey nearly became Presidential nominee for the Republican party in the early 40s but his anti-interventionism that seemed a safe bet suddenly appeared in a different light when the British suffered calamitous defeat in the Battle of France and the US political establishment worried that Britain might knocked out the war if Dewey if became President.
Luciano was never in a literal sense boss of bosses, because such a regieme was so unstable it led to endless internecine conflict and high profile murders that disrupted Mafia business and attracted publicity and police attention Luciano was the one who introduced consensus among mafia family heads and major league gangsters, with no one, able to move up to boss by killing his boss, or cut in on another territory without approval of other major figures. . After he was convicted, Luciano own family, the largest in the country but hardly an “empire” was ran by his close associates Vito Genovese, who was appointed Luciano stand in as Chairman of the Commission of mafia families and then by Frank Costello after Genovese was demoted for clumsily attracting too much attention . However, and this is a crucial point, Genovese though demoted to soldier actually had the allegiance of the hitmen who he had been directing, while Costello though supposedly boss was more personally familiar with the people involved in money making rather than violence. Costello retired after being shot, he realized Genovese was going to kill him. Luciano was alive for another five years after this. You may have heard of the Genovese crime family, not the Luciano one. Anyway, the moral of this story is that to be a boss you need a large group of thugs allegiant to you personally and a power base in things other than white collar crime.
LBJ phoned up Robert Kennedy very quickly after the assassination and asked about the procedure to be followed in administering the oath for him sworn in as President. LBJ did not waste a minute, but LBJ if he had been involved , as so many people suspected almost immediately as he was the beneficiary of an assassination that happened in his home state, he was taking a tremendous risk in view of Robert Kennedy having control over all sorts of things in the interim.
Maybe you are right about Lansky’s influence over Italian gangsters. Piper (or someone, I think Piper) thinks that the Cosa Nostra meeting was tipped off to the FBI by Lansky. Who knows? So, you maybe correct in this and Lansky was not too happy about it. But this may not have much relevance to the JFK case as there were Mickey Cohen and Ruby involved.
The whole Zionist use of the term “anti-Semite” is really silly, since the vast majority of the world’s Semites are Arabs. Most of the Jews in Israel and New York describe themselves as “secular” Jews, which means they do not believe in God but openly regard Judaism as their race. They prefer to refer to their opponents by the inaccurate term “anti-Semites,” because this blurs their position as non-believers who still see themselves as Jewish. I took the Ulpan in Jerusalem many years ago, and only three of us in a class of over 20 said they believed in God. The rest said “Judaism is my race,” and every time someone said this the rest shook their heads in agreement. The funny thing about this is that all of those people were recent immigrants from Russia or Eastern Europe whose racial background was obviously much more Khazar than Semitic.
I have always contended that Tippit was intended to silence Oswald so they could more easily frame him as the fall guy. The timing is just too soon. I think the plotters realized they had to dispose of Oswald quickly so they hurried things without realizing details like Oswald’s identity were still unknown. It seems to me everything started pointing at Oswald too quickly. Any real investigation would have had multiple suspects and at best LHO would be a person of interest.
Even though there was a ton of evidence pointing at Oswald by design it would still take investigators more time to figure this out. No one actually identified him in the act which it would take to have this kind of response. It also is clear to me that Oswald figured out what had happened and wished to be taken into custody to get a chance to clear himself. If he killed Tippit why would he then just give himself up? He wouldn’t he would keep killing police until he got away or they got him.
David Lifton, in an interview to Brent Holland, reminded how the Dallas police chief is on record, reacting in disbelief over the radio when learning that Oswald had been captured alive.
http://nightfrighshow.blogspot.com/2016/11/david-lifton-part-two.html
Oswald was never meant to be brought up alive to the police station. He was meant to be used as the fall guy for the President’s assassination, and to be killed even before being questioned. When this did not work, the conspirators had to improvise and convince Jack Ruby to murder him.
Oswald was meant to die at the hands of the Dallas police: he just was killed two days later than planned.
Officer Tippit was in a position to be blackmailed and bribed: he had money problems, and although a family man, had a pregnant mistress at the time of his death. He would have been the perfect cover for murdering Oswald.
What appears clearly from statements made by people who defend Oswald’s memory is that he was an intelligent man, who was made to believe he was part of an abort plan.
Seeing the assassination had succeeded, he would have understood that he had been played and decided to follow his own plan, thus delaying his execution by two days.
One wonder how someone of with the intelligent-and-knew-it style of Oswald was could ever have been manipulated by a conspiracy, he was a difficult personalty to get to do anything according to instruction as former employers noted. He did not like being told what, to do or being low in a hierarchy.
Lets assume for the sake of argument that Oswald knew something about a conspiracy, maybe he knew Tippet was was in on it, but he could not have known anything for sure, because there was always the chance that he was wrong. How could Oswald have known to a certainty that Tippet was there to kill him and nothing else. Evenif the did think Tippet would try and kill him, to run away and outmaneuver Tippet was the smart move. Killing Tippet was flushing his life down the toilet whatever was happening.
Even if he was absolutely certain that officer Tippet was going to try kill him there and then, Oswald (if innocent he had never shot anyone remember) would have to be a man of formidable decisiveness to instantly decide to shoot the policeman. Running away from Tippet would have been the default option, because if Oswald certain he was about to be silenced by Tippet-working-for -the conspiracy, Tippet could hardly call other cops in to help catch Oswald and risk them taking Oswald-alive.
Ruby could have been convinced that he would come out after serving only a few years (not unusual for shooting someone dead in Texas as that time) and as he had shot Kennedy’s assassin he would be a hero and set for life. His only worry would be finding a good home for his dogs. So yes Ruby could have been a self starter, or doing it for money and as a favour to mob connections he had. Ruby was very violent he bit the guitarist at his club’s fingertip off and frequently took rowdy customers apart. An impulsive man, and a strange one.
But, Oswald could have been under absolutely no illusions about what would happen after he shot a Dallas policeman dead, once he he fell into the hands of the deceased officer’s colleagues they would knock all the curl out his hair and then take him down into the basement and kill him or have someone associated with them kill him. And that is exactly what happened. Even if it hadn’t, Oswald was never going to get out of prison; murdering Tippet would have seen to that. If Oswald was following a line of reasoning, it was a remarkably foolhardy one. A liquor store stick up man with born to lose tattoos was a giant of pragmatism compared to Oswald-if-he-didn’t-shoot-Kennedy.
“What appears clearly from statements made by people who defend Oswald’s memory is that he was an intelligent man, who was made to believe he was part of an abort plan.
Seeing the assassination had succeeded, he would have understood that he had been played and decided to follow his own plan, thus delaying his execution by two days.”
Let us start from the abort plan. There are some statements that there was an abort plan and Oswald belonged to the abort plan, thus this is not fully speculative.
If Oswald was in the abort plan, the goal was to stop the assassination of JFK in Dallas. What was Oswald then doing in the TSBD building to abort the assassination? He was not trying to kill the assassins by shooting from the TSBD building. Nobody was firing at the assassins. He must have done something that the assassins would not manage to kill JFK. I can only think of him tampering with the weapon of the assassin, but to do that Oswald had to have access to the weapon before the assassination. This line of thought leads to the rifle with a defective sight. If JFK was shot with a rifle with a defective sight, it creates a problem how to hit with such a gun, but there is also the possibility that there was no assassin in the TSBD building. JFK could have been shot from another building and Oswald was left in the TSBD building with a rifle and somebody put there casings.
To this running away and killing Tippit.
Then JFK was killed. What would Oswald to? Understand that the abort plan failed and probably he was cheated with the abort plan idea, that there was no abort plan and that he was set up to be the patsy. He would try to run: go home, get a revolver and a false passport and try to get out. Tippit was already looking for him, noticing that he was hunted, Oswald may have shot Tippit as a desperate effort to escape. Or it could have been that Oswald spoke to Tippit who promised to help him and speak to some high up person. Oswald told Tippit that he would wait in a movie theater. But as it turned out, Tippit was killed and Oswald was captured and charged for the murder of Tippit. Can be many ways. There are few rational things you can do if you are set up as a patsy by your employers. Running away could not succeed for a longer time.
“This line of thought leads to the rifle with a defective sight. If JFK was shot with a rifle with a defective sight, it creates a problem how to hit with such a gun, but there is also the possibility that there was no assassin in the TSBD building. JFK could have been shot from another building and Oswald was left in the TSBD building with a rifle and somebody put there casings. ”
I have to correct this. Fragments of two bullets were taken from JFK, from the back/neck and from the head. These bullets were shot with the exact MC rifle found from TSBD and this rifle had a defective sight. Thus, somebody shot JFK with the MS rifle twice and hit. (In the head there were unidentified fragments, possibly from a front shot.) We must discard the idea that there was no shooter in the TSBD. Could the sight be damaged after shooting? A rifle used by military is robust enough that the sight will not bend by a minor hit. There is no reason for the shooter or the police to have made an effort to destroy the sight, thus the sight was defective and somebody hit a headshot with it. Not Oswald, who was buying coke when the police came and was not noticed running down. Thus, a sniper shot with a defective sight and Oswald was in an abort team (which explains why after the shooting he went home, took his gun and false ID , showing he was improvising an escape after realizing he being made the patsy). The arguments of Sparkon, Sean and Momus against this theory are thus refuted. We had a professional sniper shooting with a defective sight and hitting with it, the umbrella man making gestures that look like signs, Oswald in the abort team. The assassination plan was discovered probably by Oswald, but the assassins wanted to proceed with it. This is why the plan had to be modified and there were too many small errors in it: they needed more than one shot, they needed an umbrella man, they had to have a rifle with a defective sight, they had to kill Tippit, ask Ruby to kill Oswald. Not a clean assassination, but with a good cover-up it went through.
Hi J2. Thanks so much for the very interesting points you raised.
Just a quick answer for the moment about the “abort team”.
One thing is absolutely certain: Oswald worked for US intelligence agencies. The job and the cover he had in New-Orleans were provided by entities involved in subversion in South/Latin America. His masquerading as a pro-Castro marxist was facilitated and staged by the President of the American Cancer Society. Judyth Vary Baker, his friend/girlfriend, was fiercely anti-Castro: the very fact that she defends his memory today, and calls him a “patriot” proves that they were on the same ideological side: the side of their country, the USA.
The fact that Oswald worked for intelligence services does not mean he is innocent: but as you rightly said, he could not have been the TSBD 6th floor shooter because he was not there at the time. Judyth Vary Baker spoke to him on the evening of the 20th Nov for the last time; she would be the last person he would have opened up to. He told her that (1) he was part of an abort team, (2) his CIA handler was James Atlee Phillips, the same handler as James Files.
The other , more important witness who spoke about the abort team is Robert “Tosh” Plumlee, whose links to the CIA, working as a pilot, cannot be challenged .
Plumlee stated that he flew an abort team to Dallas to stop the assassination, but believes he was deceived and actually flew in the kill team. Of course, he may be re-arranging the story retrospectively, but his sayings are supported by Files’ confession, which was made before Plumlee’s. In 1994, Files stated that mob man Roselli had flewn to Dallas on special military plane, and that he had had last minutes orders to cancel the shooting.
Plumlee’s confession came many years later.
The deception of the “abort team” is very plausible: while some people within security services hated JFK and wanted him dead, many others were honest patriots who had to be fooled, while being used at a higher level by a mastermind. In the case of Oswald and Files, this “mastermind” would have been James Atlee Phillips.
Regarding the shooting from the back, there is nothing convincing to prove that it occurred from the TSBD. The most accurate missile trajectory that could be assessed was for the bullet that hit by-stander James Tague; the officer in charge concluded at the time that the most likely provenance was the Dal-Tex Building, which had a clearer line of sight.
Similarly Files is adamant that Nicoletti shot JFK from the Dal-Tex building.
Finally, regarding the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle shooting the President’s, the autopsy was such a travesty that we can be sure of nothing. Eminent radiographer David Mantik has scientifically proven that the skull X-rays were forged to include a section of an MC bullet (I will post a summary of his findings later).
One thing is certain, as you stated: Dark Complected was indeed a Signal-Man.
The killers would have been given the order NOT to shoot the crowd, to avoid too many witnesses, and to avoid revealing there were more than one shooter.
They would also have waited until the limousine was further into the Elm Street turn; otherwise , the TSBD “sniper nest” would have been implausible.
So, they had a short window:
- Shoot late enough so it looks like a shoot from the TSBD (where the planned patsy worked)
- Shoot early enough to hit the President from the back, otherwise the patsy cannot be incriminated.
- Have a front shot plan B, in case shooting from the back does not succeed.
So, may be, the role of Umbrella Man was to indicate the position after which a successful back shot becomes unlikely. The role of Dark Complected Man could have been to correct the shooting direction (higher), but also to indicate to the limo driver that he had to stop. Which he did: this stop of 1 to 2 secs is remembered by about 20 witnesses but subtracted from the Zapruder movie.
Finally, thinking that it was too late for a successful back shot (Plan A), somebody with a totally different weapon shot the President from the front(Plan B). Of this, we can be 100% certain, because we have a backward movement of the victim that could not be removed from the Z. movie by the technology of the time, and we also have a large numbers of professionals working in a trauma hospital talking about a massive exit wound at the back of the skull. The front shot is the major thing that went wrong in an otherwise successful criminal plan.
What do you think?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2100256/JFK-tried-make-abortion-How-President-Kennedy-forced-teenage-intern-drugs-feared-hed-pregnant.htm
If Oswald was a CIA agent he was the bravest of the brave and the most selfless there was (because he would be about the only CIA agent that went to spy in Russia without diplomatic immunity). Now lets assume Oswald was such a ultimate loyal team players operative, the CIA’s Man of Bronze, and he followed orders given by his immediate superiors without question, though still only 24, all the time living in poverty and in character as a conceited, difficult and narcissistic person who could only get a low level job because the employer did not follow up references. I suppose it is possible some one like that might have obeyed orders to participate in a fraught operation to halt the assassination of Kennedy, not by arresting the key conspirators or their boss, or killing them, but rather by an indirect abort plan method. It seems to me the only reason for that indirect method would be to quietly foil while concealing the existence of internal rogue elements of the CIA, by not a very effective method with considerable risk to Kennedy of the assassination conspiracy’s executive action being faster than Oswald and Company’s abort plan reaction.
Right, let us put this Oswald in the position of meeting Tippet, who he suspects may be going to kill him, Oswald is just under cover, not alone as he was in in Russia, he has back up in the form of his team who are working with him on the abort operation. The president has been murdered by the conspiracy, which Oswald ‘s team must have accepted was a possibility, but anyway Oswald has got to a phone and contacted his controller on the operation and perhaps been told to go to a meeting, and find out what he can , which is what CIA agents are mainly trained to do: cultivate people and gain their trust. There is training on the Farm in Virginia on escape and evasion and avoiding surveillance . Now, shooting Tippet four times in the street means Oswald is going to be hunted down by the Dallas police before he can contact superiors for orders, and thus shooting Tippet means he would fail in his mission.
Oswald as you have posited him was not was not the Lone Ranger, he was part of a group that considered themselves a match for the assassination conspiracy. Robert Kennedy was still alive, the good CIA as represented by the Secret Team Oswald was working with on the abort project would have several moves available. They could play it straight and go to Robert Kennedy, and/or plant evidence and frame the members of the conspiracy for what they know they actually are responsible for . If it came to i they could just assassinate the lead figures of the conspiracy and decapitate it. Oswald is in the position of a scout who is on reconnaissance and must get back to report his news so his superiors can react to the enemy latest dispositions and intentions.
If you know that to be the case, but when JFK is killed Oswald as you posit his motivation to be has no way of knowing that he has been set up by his employers at at all. All Oswald would know was the conspiracy he and his employer had been forking to foil has succeeded. Your Oswald the anti assassination operative would assume the conspiracy that the abort plan was supposed to foil was responsible for killing Kennedy, not that the abort plan was fake and he had been tricked into being a patsy for the real conspiracy that was actually one and the same thing as the abort plan, with only him being unaware of that fact.
If he arrived with the intention of trying to kill Oswald, Tippet made a real snafau mess; not getting a single shot off. Unless Tippet announced his intention (like a baddie in a film) before aiming his gun, you have to conclude that Oswald the abort plan double agent was more volatile than sweating dynamite, and faster than the man with no name, because he took one look at Tippet and instantly drew to shoot him four times: dead. And he did not evade arrest very skillfully either.
“If Oswald was a CIA agent he was the bravest of the brave and the most selfless there was (because he would be about the only CIA agent that went to spy in Russia without diplomatic immunity).”
I have no idea how many secret CIA agents were sent to Russia without diplomatic immunity. With diplomatic immunity there naturally were many in the embassy and what would be the mission of such an agent. Probably not to build a spying network, possibly to contact someone. The only lead here are the hints that Oswald was an anti-Castro person pretending to be pro-Castro, those issues that Iris mentions.
“Now lets assume Oswald was such a ultimate loyal team players operative, the CIA’s Man of Bronze, and he followed orders given by his immediate superiors without question, though still only 24, all the time living in poverty and in character as a conceited, difficult and narcissistic person who could only get a low level job because the employer did not follow up references.”
I think it is possible that Oswald was a normal CIA agent working on anti-Castro mission and he came to know about an assassination plan on JFK and managed to infiltrate that plan.
“I suppose it is possible some one like that might have obeyed orders to participate in a fraught operation to halt the assassination of Kennedy, not by arresting the key conspirators or their boss, or killing them, but rather by an indirect abort plan method. It seems to me the only reason for that indirect method would be to quietly foil while concealing the existence of internal rogue elements of the CIA, by not a very effective method with considerable risk to Kennedy of the assassination conspiracy’s executive action being faster than Oswald and Company’s abort plan reaction.”
If we assume there was an abort team and Oswald was in it, this team was trying to abort the assassination plan following method decided by his superiors. Possibly the reason for using this kind of a plan was to capture the unknown rogue elements in the CIA and the Secret Service as Oswald knew there was going to be only one sniper in the TSBD building. I think this was the original plan. The plan of aborting the plan was to make it practically impossible that the sniper could hit JFK. The sight was destroyed, and if the killing bullet did not come from TSBD, the bullets could have been tampered. The sight was destroyed in case the sniper would have bullets with him. It seems quite clear the sniper would fail and then be arrested, while the Secret Service people involved would also be arrested and so on.
“Right, let us put this Oswald in the position of meeting Tippet, who he suspects may be going to kill him, Oswald is just under cover, not alone as he was in in Russia, he has back up in the form of his team who are working with him on the abort operation. The president has been murdered by the conspiracy, which Oswald ‘s team must have accepted was a possibility,”
Probably they did not consider it a possibility, if there was to be only one sniper. Oswald realizes there were more snipers. The police comes to TSBD, does not arrest the sniper because there was no sniper in that building (assuming that the MC bullet fragments in JFK’s brain were implanted, as suggested by Iris), while he knows he took the rifle to the 6th floor. So, he leaves and thinks he is being framed.
“but anyway Oswald has got to a phone and contacted his controller on the operation and perhaps been told to go to a meeting, and find out what he can , which is what CIA agents are mainly trained to do: cultivate people and gain their trust. There is training on the Farm in Virginia on escape and evasion and avoiding surveillance.”
I do not know this JFK case at all as well as you, Sparkon and Iris, nor do I know what CIA agents are told to do, but let’s see. The instructions would have been to call the CIA, but he would not know whom to trust. So he took his revolver and a false ID and went. Then he was seen to talk to Tippit, I think it was so.
“Now, shooting Tippet four times in the street means Oswald is going to be hunted down by the Dallas police before he can contact superiors for orders, and thus shooting Tippet means he would fail in his mission.”
Assuming Oswald shot Tippit. There were claims by some people that this is not proven.
“Oswald as you have posited him was not was not the Lone Ranger, he was part of a group that considered themselves a match for the assassination conspiracy. Robert Kennedy was still alive, the good CIA as represented by the Secret Team Oswald was working with on the abort project would have several moves available.”
Here you assume that Oswald believed there was an abort team. If he realized that the abort team was cheating, then he was alone and being framed. He could think of contacting friendly forces, maybe Tippit looked like one, and he went to wait in the movie theater. How could he realize that there was no abort team? Maybe he was outside and saw how the Secret Service did not cover the president and nobody arrested them. If he saw the assassination, he knew there was no abort team.
“They could play it straight and go to Robert Kennedy, and/or plant evidence and frame the members of the conspiracy for what they know they actually are responsible for . If it came to i they could just assassinate the lead figures of the conspiracy and decapitate it. Oswald is in the position of a scout who is on reconnaissance and must get back to report his news so his superiors can react to the enemy latest dispositions and intentions.”
If Oswald saw that there was no abort team, he would not contact his superior. His best chance would have been to contact some uncorrupted policemen and ask for protection. Then he would not have been the shooter of Tippit.
“”Then JFK was killed. What would Oswald to? Understand that the abort plan failed and probably he was cheated with the abort plan idea, that there was no abort plan and that he was set up to be the patsy. [...]There are few rational things you can do if you are set up as a patsy by your employers. Running away could not succeed for a longer time.”If you know that to be the case, but when JFK is killed Oswald as you posit his motivation to be has no way of knowing that he has been set up by his employers at at all. All Oswald would know was the conspiracy he and his employer had been forking to foil has succeeded.”
If Oswald saw the assassination, he saw there was no abort team. So he had been set up by his employer. Had he seen the abort team attack the Secret Service and cover JFK, but JFK died, then he would think that there was the abort team but they failed.
“Your Oswald the anti assassination operative would assume the conspiracy that the abort plan was supposed to foil was responsible for killing Kennedy, not that the abort plan was fake and he had been tricked into being a patsy for the real conspiracy that was actually one and the same thing as the abort plan, with only him being unaware of that fact.”
Oswald saw that there was no abort team.
“If he arrived with the intention of trying to kill Oswald, Tippet made a real snafau mess; not getting a single shot off. Unless Tippet announced his intention (like a baddie in a film) before aiming his gun, you have to conclude that Oswald the abort plan double agent was more volatile than sweating dynamite, and faster than the man with no name, because he took one look at Tippet and instantly drew to shoot him four times: dead. And he did not evade arrest very skillfully either.”
I do not think Tippit came with the intention of shooting Oswald. I think Tippit did say something to Oswald. One should first be sure that Oswald shot Tippit. You, Sean, are far too polemical. Could you stick to a normal discussion mode? I find the comments from Iris very interesting, but yours have a tendency that does not belong here.
Sounds good. Some comments.
“but also to indicate to the limo driver that he had to stop. Which he did: this stop of 1 to 2 secs is remembered by about 20 witnesses but subtracted from the Zapruder movie.”
Can this stop be in the place when the Zapruder film has a pause? There are two impulses just at that time 44s and 45.3s. See my previous post. Can this be the original plan of shooting JFK from TSBD, which fails because the sight of the MC was tampered and probably also the bullets?
It is good if the bullet in the head did not come from the MC rifle. Otherwise the shooter in the TSBD had to shoot a hit with a defective sight and we end up to the scenario I proposed, which is indeed rather improbable. So, let us assume, there was a sniper in TSBD, but Oswald had tampered with the rifle and that the original plan was that there is a single sniper in the TSBD.
“In 1994, Files stated that mob man Roselli had flewn to Dallas on special military plane, and that he had had last minutes orders to cancel the shooting.”
A team flew to Dallas because Oswald had revealed the original plan. This was the fix-up team, nominally the abort team, actually the counter-abort team. Roselli had got last minute orders to change the shooting set-up, but not to cancel the assassination. They had to place shooters to other locations and this time more than one. Anyway, Files told he shot JFK, so he was not in a real abort team.
How about this possibility? Can include the stop of the limousine.
Just see this Dictabelt Zapruder match
Impulses: I earlier ignored these thinking that nobody reacted to them, they could not be shots. (it is possible that there are other loud noises), but think of this as the aborted assassination from the TSBD
44.0
45.3
Zapruder frame Dictabelt, or what it sounds to me
50 37.60-38.60 “I get it” – some last minute information
132 42.11 Zapruder film stops
break 44.10-46.10 “get out of here, over here” — telling the TSBD shooter to get out
break 48.60-50.65 “Hold if up right there, we’re gonna do it” — telling to go on with the plan
133 49.11 Zapruder film starts
I don’t think so. Please provide a source for this assertion.
Please recall that in my #825 above, I’ve already provided a statement from the HSCA where the FBI determined that fragments from JFK were too small for microscopic analysis, and spectroscopic analysis was inconclusive.
Therefore, despite what you say,
There is no forensic evidence linking any bullet fragments found in JFK with the MC.
Thanks for this comment. Iris already stated the same. This simplifies the issues since then no sniper shooting with a defective sight needed to make a hit in the head. Either there was no sniper in TSBD, or the sniper in TSBD was there earlier, during the pause in the Zapruder film, and the car stopped at that time, but the gun was defective. If the impulses in 44s and 45.3s are gunshots, which I am not sure, the second shot could not be an aimed shot from that rifle, too short time. It could be that the bullets were dummies and the shooter fired the second to the wall right after loading just to confirm that they are dummies.
So, I propose:
Oswald believed he was in an abort team and there was to be only one sniper in TSBD. Oswald was to provide the gun and he made sure JFK could not be hit with that gun. The sniper tried in 44s, the pause of the Zapruder film. The sniper escaped. Oswald went outside and saw the assassination and no abort team trying to stop it, thought about it and decided he is being framed. The “abort” team was there to modify the assassination set-up by shooters in other places and with a sign man (dark complexion man pointed out by the umbrella man). The testimonies of Hunt and Files are largely correct, though Files may not have himself been there. Sarti was one of the snipers. LBJ and Lansky did it because of Dimona. Is there still some unsolved issue to discuss?
Hello J2; If we were to try and relate the Dictabelt frequency spectrum analysis to an assassination scenario, may be it would be good to first agree on what could be a plausible scenario.
The JFK assassination was supported by a complex organisation, involving compartmentalized teams. It is very easy to understand what could NOT have happened (the Magic Bullet, LHO at the 6th Floor, and all the other cock-and-bull stories). But its is difficult to understand what actually happened, because too much information is missing to complete the jigsaw.
However, one could define a few ground rules to select data and then define a plausible working scenario to understand how the shooting could have possibly occurred.
1- Data backed up by expert science should be accepted: the X-rays falsification being uncovered by abnormal optical density measures is a good example.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1tCScVJgo7jI3SlzhSVSFlyR3QFPFrj0ScL-g2sZOrN8/edit
2- Events or details remembered similarly by a large number of persons (more than 5) have to be accepted as true. The limousine 1-to-2 seconds stop before the final head shot is a good example.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1tCScVJgo7jI3SlzhSVSFlyR3QFPFrj0ScL-g2sZOrN8/edit
3- Complex testimonies corroborated by other complex testimonies have to be true, because the opposite is false: the probability of a complex lie being corroborated by other complex lies is infinitesimal.
If we apply these ground rules, Rule 3 would lead to the conclusion that Oswald indeed worked for national intelligence services, and so did James File. We would also conclude that James Files story is true.
So, let’s assume that James Files story, the “Chicago mob killer team scenario”, is true at 80%. So far, its critics have come up with relatively weak objections:
- Discrepancy in the Fireball bullet embossing: there was no such thing as industrial quality control back in the 60′s . It is easy to have such a mismatch, especially for ammunition used in black operations. Weak argument.
- Files did NOT mention the limo stop: this is a relevant criticism by Dr James Fetzer, as this stop was relevant when aiming at the President. Acceptable argument.
Other than that, Files’ story is consistent and corroborated by independent witnesses. So, let us assume it is true.
Let us discard the presence of any French/Corsican shooter. That Lucien Sarti was discussed as possible shooter in talks between US and Corsican mobs is very likely: this information is based on two separate witnesses. However, it is an implausible scenario, because a French man with a Corsican accent lurking among Texans would have been too noticeable in the aftermath of a political assassination of that magnitude. So I think no French shooter was involved.
So key elements of this “plausible” scenario would be that:
1- Oswald was duped in believing he was part of an abort mission to unfold an assassination plot. So yes, he could have deliberately sabotaged the MC rifle and left it in the 6th floor.
2- Files and Nicoletti were on a real mission to kill the President.
3- Roselli also was contracted to kill the President, but he received last minute cancellation instructions from his handlers, it is not very clear why. (We can make assumptions: for the plot to succeed and the limo to be caught up in triangulated lines of fire , it was necessary that the motorcade took the Elm Street turn. This change of route was long debated within the President’s circle, and finally confirmed only early on the 22nd Nov by Jack Ruby to John Roselli).
4- Roselli did not want to contravene the cancellation orders and decided not to shoot; so Nicoletti asked Files to be his last-minute back-up at the Grassy Knoll.
5- Nicoletti and Roselli then gained access to the 2nd Floor of the Dal-Tex Building thanks to a contact arranged by Eugene Brading, a mob man linked to Meyer Lansky. Only Nicoletti was prepared to shoot
6- Finally, there was a fourth member in the “Chicago Mob Killer Team”: Marshall Caifano, whose participation was corroborated by other testimonies. Files does not mention him, because he does not “grass up” living people, so we don’t know where he was posted, but I see him sticking with his team for escape purposes. So I would think he was in the Dal-Tex building, with Nicoletti and Roselli.
7- Nobody used the Mannlicher Carcano rifle. Nicoletti and Caifano had other weapons that had been tested and adjusted by Files in the days leading to the assassination; one just happened to miss. Dark Complected Man directed the shooting and they would have had the time to see his arm signal as they were shooting each at a time.
So, a possible scenario based on the meagre information we have would be:
- Two shooters at the back, Roselli and Caifano, posted in the Dal-Tex building and using two different weapons, possibly shooting each at a turn as means of coordination, and firing shots 1,2, 3, 4 and 5.
- One shooter at the front, Files, firing shot 6 a fraction of a second after shot 5.
Shot 6 would have been shot with a Fireball Remington gun (using one mercury loaded frangible bullet).
- Oswald seeing people running at the Grassy Knoll as possible location for the assassin would have understood that the “abort plan” was bogus, and would have promptly left the TSBD knowing that the MC would be linked to him.
What do you think?
I think this is as good as we can go. There may be other possibilities, but this includes all facts that can be used. The stop of the limousine is yet to be decided. I think it could be that the car stopped when the Zapruder film has a pause. There were some noises at that time, probably not gunshots but witnesses could have mixed them up with later gunshots. Files did not remember the limousine stopping, so maybe it stopped earlier. Later the car slowed down, but did not quite stop.
About the Corsican team. I remember Michel Mertz was somewhere in the area, Mertz should be Jean Souetre, but here it could have been Sarti using the same name. Hunt said he was a benchwarmer and he mentioned Lucien Sarti. Could it be that there was another ambush planned on another possible route of the limousine? The car took the American mob route instead of the French?
The plan of the assassination would have had two options for two routes of the car, and in the less probable option there was to be one shooter in the TSBD. This route was selected and Oswald had damaged the rifle.
As a check for the “Chicago Mob Kill Team” scenario, I made a comparison with the shooting scenario proposed in the “JFK” 1991 film.
Oliver Stone had relied on very knowledgeable Kennedy assassination researchers, such as Jim Marrs, so they would have carefully drawn up this sequence, using all information available at the time.
Their narrative comprises 3 shooter locations: TSBD, Dal-Tex and Grassy Knoll.
Their shooting sequence also comprises 6 shots, but in a different order: in the film, both shots 2 and 6 come from the front.
Yes, it is good to have them similar. They can be ordered to be quite similar.
Oliver Stone film
161 first shot miss
193 second shot JFK hit to the throat from the front
232 third shot JFK to the back
238 fourth shot Connally hit
313 fifth shot JFK to the head from the back
314 sixth shot JFK to the head from the front
Dictabelt synchronized, changed to be as similar as possible
196 first shot, miss
209 second shot, JFK hit to the throat from a bounced shot from the back
220 third shot, JFK to the back
253 fourth shot, Connally hit
313 fifth shot JFK to the head from the back
314 sixth shot JFK to the head from the front
The first shot, a miss, cannot in any case be reliably detected from the Zapruder film. Frame 197 is blurred, so 196 could be a loud noise and Zapruder reacts to it.
JFK looks fine in frame 205 and comes visible in 225, so it is more natural to have the second and third shot in 209 and 220, we cannot see them. The problem if being shot to the throat from the front is that the bullet would go through or instantly kill JFK, and this is why it may be a bounced bullet. The shots to the throat and back can be in any order as they are not seen.
The difference is now only Connally. In Oliver Stone’s film he is hit in 238, but the Dictabelt impulse is at 253. There is red color in Connally’s shoulder in frame 241, but the color can be added.
It is quite possible that some editing has been done to the film.
Was a Dal-Tex shooter hidden in the Altgens photo?
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/12399-dal-tex-shooter-2nd-floor/
Did Meyer Lansky commission the assassination of President Kennedy?
The role of Coordinator in the murder of President Kennedy seems to have been performed by Eugene Hale Brading, aka Jim Braden, a long-term associate of mob boss and Israel supporter Meyer Lansky.
Eugene Brading met the hitmen on arrival at Dallas:
- Both hitmen Charles Nicoletti and John Roselli stayed with Brading at the Dallas Cabana Hotel on the night of N0v 21st. (James Files confession)
- ‘Braden, along with ex-convict Morgan Brown, was staying at the Cabana Motel, the same motel visited by (Jack)Ruby the night of November 21.’ – Jim Marrs, Crossfire, 1993.
Eugene Brading enabled the hitmen to access their shooting location at the Dal-Tex building:
- “Brading’s mission was to get Roselli and Nicoletti inside the Dal-Tex” (James Files).
Brading may have acted as the coordinator of the assassination, using purpose-made sets of low-band radios and earpieces:
https://jfkplayersandwitnesses.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/eugene-hale-brading-radio-coordinator-of-the-jfk-assassination/
Brading was arrested by the police inside the Dal-Tex building minutes after the assassination, pretended he was looking for the lift, and was released.
http://www.jfk-online.com/braden.html
Brading was designated as the leader of the assassination squad by a colleague of Oswald’s:
“While visiting the alleged assassin’s grave on the third anniversary of his death he(author William Morris) encountered an agent who’d worked with Oswald in the CIA…Agent X told him that (Loran)Hall was in Dallas on November 22, 1963 as part of the assassination squad which was directed by Eugene Hale Brading.’ – Alan J. Weberman & Michael Canfield, Coup d’Etat in America, 1975
Finally, and to better show who pays the piper, Brading was also in the picture when Bobby Kennedy was murdered in 1968.
http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKbrading.htm
It is certain, 100% certain, that the Zapruder film has been “edited” and reconstructed.
It should be used only carefully for time-synchronisation.
- Frames have been removed, possibly to hide the car stop that facilitated the head shot.
- Frames have been doctored to hide the magnitude of the head wound (and the nature of the frangible bullet that caused it).
Please see the amazing interview that Dino Brugioni, the Intelligence/Navy photographic interpreter who first worked on the unedited version gave to JFK researcher Douglas Horne, and my post in 881.
In memory of President Kennedy, a great man who self-sacrificed for his country.
https://i0.wp.com/www.newnationalist.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/John-F-Kennedy.jpg?resize=600%2C350&ssl=1
Great article in the “New Nationalist”.
https://www.newnationalist.net/2017/01/19/john-f-kennedys-prescient-belief-in-conspiracy-practices-and-his-demise/
“Brading may have acted as the coordinator of the assassination, using purpose-made sets of low-band radios and earpieces:”
If the Dictabelt voices are related to the assassination, as I think they fit very well to the context, these radios were interworking with the police radios and tuned to Channel 1. That is quite possible, they did not encrypt police radio at that time, only military and diplomatic communication.
Is it possible that the Dal-Tex shooter would have hit JFK to the neck from the side, so that it just pierced some part and made one wound bleeding inside to require the throat operation? JFK head could have been turned to a suitable direction. That would be more natural than a bounced bullet. The same shooter would have hit him to the back within 0.5s, should be an automatic rifle.
If you accept those shot times from the Dictabelt, then it looks like 52.5 (first) and 55.8 (fifth) have the same echo peaks, which match TSBD. 58.9 is from the Grassy Knoll, echos match. 53.2 (second) and 53.8 (third) would be from Dal-Tex. 55.6 (fourth) could still be from somewhere else, or from TSBD as otherwise it is similar to the two, though the echos do not match.
Getting there.
The source of this…..thing.
Hero, self-sacrifice, origins of a myth….stuff like that.
From here
http://www.hellenicgods.org/heroic-self-sacrifice-eroike-autothysia
to Jung etc.
Keep at it guys.
“Is it possible that the Dal-Tex shooter would have hit JFK to the neck from the side”
You are correct, the neck wound is indeed the most difficult issue to understand.
1- The neck wound definitely existed: Dr Perry used it to perform a tracheostomy on the President.
2- Some believe it was an exit wound to one of the head shots; it would then be unrelated to the first time President Kennedy is hit, and is seen grabbing his throat, with the First Lady’s white glove on his arm. This moment was captured in the Altgens photo below.
3- Oliver Stone depicted it as a shot from the front. That would imply there were two shooters at the front, using different types of bullets. It is possible, but the trajectory is unrealistic. How could the bullet have missed the driver and Connally, and have hit the President quite low under the Adam apple?
So, I have not find a satisfactory explanation yet, and will keep looking at the medical evidence and counter-evidence. The explanation exists, somewhere.
The most important thing is that applying signal processing and frequency analysis does prove that there were more than 3 shots.
Thus, this robust, widely-used and unchallengeable mathematical method known to all engineers has and will again be used to demonstrate that President Kennedy’s assassination was a conspiracy.
You are sure that the limousine stopped for 1-2 s, so what about the following modification.
The limousine stops for 1-2 s just after frame 206. This part is removed from the Zapruder film. This means that the first shot is not at the frame 196, but between 206 and 207 in the omitted clip. The shot comes from TSBD to a nonmoving car. The sniper hardly can miss. He hits JFK to the back. The second two shots come from Dal-Tex. The shooter has set his gun to a short series (2 shots). With a short series you usually do not get two hits. He hits JFK to the neck crushing the Adam’s apple from the side. JFK has turned almost to the back. We cannot see this in the Zapruder film as it is behind the sign. The fourth shot comes from TSBD and hits Connally. The fifth also and hits JFK to the head, then comes the final front hit with Firebird. This was the mob-team, the abort team.Umbrella team signals more bullets.
The original assassination team has Sorti or Souetre as a shooter. He was in the USA under the name Mertz, but he was called off. He was arrested but not having been in Dealey Plaza, he was found innocent. Hunt knew only of this original plan. The original plan leaked, possibly because of Oswald. Apparently the assassin was to shoot from TSBD before the limo turned. Oswald got a gun with a defective sight and two dummy bullets and was to take the rifle to the 6th floor, which he did. He shot a test shot and verified that the sight was defective, the casing he had to leave. Oswald let an abort team member to TSBD. He was to arrest/shoot the assassin, he had his own rifle. But what happened, the abort team member shot the two dummies with the MC rifle, put all three casings to the floor (one casing was from the test shooting), this was 44s and 45.3s. Then he just waited for the real assassination to begin. Oswald was watching the limousine and saw the assassination, understood that the abort team was fraudient and escaped.
So, there is now: stopping of the limo, defective sight, all wounds and autopsies, abort team, Souetre/Sarti, Files testimony, Hunt testimony, Oswald being CIA and in the abort team, Zapruder film having some edition, Dictabelt and Audiograph with tampering done in 1978, umbrella team. The casing stamp, which is against the testimony of Files I discard since it can be that the machine making the newer stamps was in existence for production of special bullets already in 1963.
Hello J2;
1) Regarding the throat wound, multiple eyewitness testimonies would corroborate that it could have come from the front. See paragraph below by researcher Douglas Horn.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-one-paragraph-you-need-to-read-from-the-jfk-assassination-files-that-may-change-everything/5615681
It has been studied by another researcher, Douglas Weldon, in “Murder in Dealy Plaza”, and he concluded that the throat shot came from the South Knoll (opposite side of James Files).
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/1005-the-throat-wound/
Is it possible that the first shot came from the front, while the plotters were planning so hard to pin the murder on Oswald? Of course it is: there could have been another hitman at the South Knoll who decided to take his chance. Thugs and murderers motivated by greed may not follow instructions.
2) Regarding the limousine stop, it would have happened just before the head shots (5 and 6th shots).
(In addition to that, the limousine almost came to a stop when first turning into Elm Street, which is possibly why this section of the Z. film was removed altogether).
3) Are the articles analysing the recording frequency spectrum currently available, or under review? I’d like to read them again, as I now have slightly more knowledge of the circumstances . With regards.
If you were to say these thing JD’s son, Tippet Junior, you would be likely to get your teeth knocked out, he is a a man with a reputation for doing things like that. I would not want to have that happen to you but on the other hand think you need to be exposed to some reality therapy: this endless spinning of theories is getting the comments nowhere. There are already more than enough. I know comments like Iris’s are more to your taste, but “here” is supposed to be about who ordered the assassination not going over the technical”how” issues and brainstorming new ones.
Go to the proper place (part one} and you will see my comment on why that can’t possibly be true.
Getting back on topic. Framing a communist sympathizer who had spent time in the Soviet Union (and agitated against US policy toward Cuba) for murdering President Kennedy not long after JFK had humiliated the USSR in the Cuban Missile crisis would have been quite be likely to start WW3. There would be no way for a high level “Secret Government “conspiracy to control events once Oswald’s affiliations was made public and the American people they found out he had he visited the Cuban embassy and spoke to KGB men.
Blaming the USSR and Cuba would also mean that the Soviets, with their formidable resources and quite possibly double agents inside the CIA, would have a motive to point out the holes in the conspiracy’s assassination narrative. Oswald was radioactive as a prospective patsy, and the last person anyone in US intelligence and even the FBI would try to pin the assassination on. Stopping him talking by immediately killing him would not solve any of those problems.
I do not care to upgrade the articles to a publication level, would require editing, as it is highly unlikely to get such articles published anywhere. You find them from my blog
http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/12/07/was-the-j-f-kennedy-assassination-a-conspiracy/
and also from vixra putting my name from my blog there
http://vixra.org/
you find also the software from the blog with the digitalized Dictabelt and Audiograph clips. (without instructions, but still). Audicity tool you should find from somewhere. And i put some lousy videos in the youtube to show how I did what I did, by my name they can be found.
If the shot was from front, it might still be possible that JFK was looking sideways and that is why the bullet did not go through. A rifle bullet should go through the neck, I think, or break the spinal cord, which would cause collapse. But maybe he was looking to the side. Fortunately we cannot see it.
If the film stops just before the 5th shot for 1-2 s, it causes 18-36 frames shift in the shots forward, that is, 55.6s is now at the frame 254, would be at the frame 272-290, Connally hit. 53.2s now at 209 would go to 227 of more, already visible, 53.8s would go to 239 or more. No, this is impossible. Doing so the impulses from the Dictabelt do not match at all with the film. I think the stop can be at the Elm Street. People often mix up what they remember.
I find this impossible.
Hello Sean;
I think that the “reality therapy” is already happening, in broad daylight and in a civilised manner. There is a JFK Conference organised at Dallas in November, which will be full of US citizens using the rights provided by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution of the USA, and discussing similar topics, with the same mindset as we have on this thread.
https://jfkdallasconference.com/
Please do not formulate threats: it is very vulgar, and it will make no difference whatsoever. The truth is out there, thanks to the Internet, and it can never be covered up again.
You like quoting ancient Greece analogies, well, you know what a Pandora box is, then.
The murder of President Kennedy may have succeeded, but as a consequence, the powers that be lost lost all credibility. There will never be justice, but there is already truth.
“If you were to say these thing JD’s son, Tippet Junior, you would be likely to get your teeth knocked out, he is a a man with a reputation for doing things like that. ”
To say that Tippet was an honest cop who spoke with Oswald, agreed to get him arrested by honest cops and be given police protection against a claimed conspiracy, and then Tippet got shot by the killers of JFK. Why should that offend Tipper Junior?
“I would not want to have that happen to you but on the other hand think you need to be exposed to some reality therapy: this endless spinning of theories is getting the comments nowhere. There are already more than enough. I know comments like Iris’s are more to your taste, but “here” is supposed to be about who ordered the assassination not going over the technical”how” issues and brainstorming new ones.”
In the other thread it is already proven that the assassination was a conspiracy and that there was a long term cover-up. This long term cover-up points to the only powers who can make a long term cover-up, and the reason given in the article by Unz, Dimona, is accepted, as is the role of LBJ. You other commentators (Momus, Sean) wanted the names of the shooters. To do that we have to find a scenario that explains all odd facts (defective sight, umbrella man, Souetre/Sarti information, Hunt testimony, Files testimony, abort team claim, Oswald’s role, autopsies, Zapruder, Dictabelt, …). We had to find one scenario that explains all facts so that it is not possible to say that this scenario cannot be correct as there is a single fact against it. So, we found such a scenario. It may not be exactly the correct one, there can be other possible scenarios, but it is enough to counter the argument that the scenario cannot be correct because of a particular fact.
“Zapruder film having some edition, Dictabelt and Audiograph with tampering done in 1978
Go to the proper place (part one} and you will see my comment on why that can’t possibly be true.”
Go to the proper place and see that this fact is proven. You have no arguments against the proof. You claim that there are earlier recordings, from 1963, which can very well be so, but you have not shown that there is tampering in them. You cannot hear the tampering, you can see it only by looking at the signal in magnification. In the original recording you have Curry saying “Hold everything secure until homicide gets here” in the Audiograph and in the Dictabelt you hear faintly someone saying “Hold it up right there, we’re gonna do it”. I can show in several ways that these signals are not same. It is not a crosstalk. Yet, the version we have now gives very high correlation between the signals (which is highly unlikely for unrelated signals) and it shows very regular waveforms (impossible in speech) in the Audiograph signal. This is clear evidence that the signal was modified to give higher correlation. You have no proof that the tampering was done before 1978-79, so that is when it most likely was made, after HSCA started with the Dictabelt.
“Getting back on topic. Framing a communist sympathizer who had spent time in the Soviet Union (and agitated against US policy toward Cuba) for murdering President Kennedy not long after JFK had humiliated the USSR in the Cuban Missile crisis would have been quite be likely to start WW3. There would be no way for a high level “Secret Government “conspiracy to control events once Oswald’s affiliations was made public and the American people they found out he had he visited the Cuban embassy and spoke to KGB men.”
In the scenario that fits all facts, Oswald is a CIA agent working in the abort team. This scenario is the most natural way to explain the defective sight of the MC rifle. If Oswald was a CIA agent, framing him would not irritate the Soviet Union, and indeed, Soviets made their investigation of the assassination which pointed to LBJ. Cubans also made their investigation, it pointed to the CIA.
Framing anybody but your own man might indeed cause problems, but Oswald was a CIA man.
“Blaming the USSR and Cuba would also mean that the Soviets, with their formidable resources and quite possibly double agents inside the CIA, would have a motive to point out the holes in the conspiracy’s assassination narrative.”
Both Soviets and Cubans investigated this issue, as did UK and France. All of these concluded that it was a conspiracy. These doubts have been known for a long time, only the US mass media makes people to believe that Oswald was the single shooter and that other theories are by crackpots. Everybody else in the world knows it was a conspiracy.
“Oswald was radioactive as a prospective patsy, and the last person anyone in US intelligence and even the FBI would try to pin the assassination on. Stopping him talking by immediately killing him would not solve any of those problems.”
Oswald was a perfect patsy, but he had to be killed as he knew of the scam abort team. This is why he wanted to be arrested by Tippet’s people, who would keep him alive. He was indeed taken alive, not shot at the sight, but then Ruby was allowed to shoot him.
In some way I start thinking that maybe you, Sean, are a H-troll.
Hi Iris, If you intend to present a paper in any conference, feel free to use my findings if they are of any use.
Mark Lane told Jimmy Jones that the CIA were out to get him. Believing nonsense can never be done with impunity by anyone. Jones believed it, whether Lane did I could not possibly say.
No evidence against a lone lone sniper (is there any other kind?) Oswald, but the case against LBJ and Israel is a world shaking truth. Now listen to me, even if it was true it would not change a thing . All theses books are about the guilt of dead people, like James Elroy’s novel about the assassination mentioning the involvement of real people who happen to be dead. Maybe the non -fiction JFK assassination books are written for similar reason to why Elroy writes his novels. The people buying the books and the tickets to the conference may or may not take it seriously. I like a secret agent conspiracy yarn as much as the next person, but I would not put my well-being or bank balance on the line. Where there is no exposure to risk for them, you cannot really tell what people believe.
“Where there is no exposure to risk for them, you cannot really tell what people believe.”
But you know what they think, like Leonard Cohen (of the tribe to the tribe) sang:
everybody knows that the boat was leaking, everybody knows that the captain lied. Wisdom.
He also wrote a song about his raincoat. I suspect he wrote all those songs because was trying to get into women’s pants. And he did–a lot,
Hi J2.
Thanks for the links to the articles. When I first read them , I had no knowledge of the assassination details. I will re-read the argument with a better educated mind.
1- The scenario we discussed complies with the information available, and is close enough from the JFK film’s one, except that the latter shows the second shot fired from the front at the Grassy Knoll.
I have reviewed the arguments in favour of a front shot (2nd shot) to the lower neck: these arguments are really compelling. It is very possible that the second shot came from the front, through the windshield. However, unlike what is shown in the film, this shot would have to be fired from the South Knoll to match a realistic trajectory.
So, a plausible scenario must include a 4th shooting location, the South Knoll.
A shooter posted also at the South Knoll is very plausible: the plotters probably had planned for the case where they could not divert the motorcade to Elm Street, and had to shoot the limousine while in Main Street (the central road across Dealy Plaza).
Of all 4 shooting locations, the only one that could be in fact realistically eliminated is the TSBD 6th floor. The bullet that hit by-stander James Tague could not have been fired from the 6th floor, as seen per the picture below. The Warren Commission had to make up another “magic bullet” story and stated that it had ricochet on a tree before hitting the kerb.
So the main “sniper nest” behind was definitely at the Dal-Tex building.
So, in summary, the scenario remains valid, except for the 2nd shot probably coming from the South Knoll.
2- Regarding the limousine stop, I looked at it only superficially so far, I am not sure when the witnesses said it happened. I will do some more research.
Why are you continuing to post about how it was done to comments on this post, which is about who commissioned the assassination?
Why are you asking? Am I bothering you in any manner, giving you too much work or anything?
I spend my rare spare time researching a historic subject which importance remains with us more than ever, at a time where democracy is dying.
You spend half of your time enquiring about the psychology of faraway commenters you will never meet, and the other half insulting them. And you worry about MY motivations and state of mind ?
E liminating the TSBD shooter and adding a South Knoll shooter fits very well. Then the story of the TSBD must be:
The original plan was the a Corsican top sniper, maybe Lucien Sorti, maybe Jean Souetre, would be the lone shooter in TSBD and shoot JFK at the Elms Street. This plan leaked: from Europe were heard rumors of Souetre being hired to kill JFK. E. Howard Hunt knew the plan, at that time the intended sniper was Sorti. We have to have this plot because of Hunt’s testimony.
Oswald was from the beginning a part of this CIA-Mafia plot that his superior was doing, but Oswald (maybe already from the beginning) wanted to destroy the plan. So he contacted somebody higher, possibly Angleton. Oswald role was to get the rifle and to take it to the 6th floor, as he worked in TSBD. Oswald got the instructions that in order to arrest the sniper, he must be caught shooting, so Oswald got a gun with a defective sight and two dummy bullets looking like real.
We have to have this part in order to explain the defective sight and that Oswald was in the abort team, and that Oswald escaped, took his gun and false ID, he was involved in the assassination.
Oswald was asked to fire the gun to a target, this is how they got the third casing and a fired bullet. Oswald took the gun to TSBD and let a member of the abort team there. This member waited until JFK was in the intended place in Elms Street, then fired the two dummies in times 44s and 45.3s, too fast for an aimed shot. Then he put three casings to the floor to look like the direction of shooting was to the other street. Then he heard form the radio “get out of there, over here” and he probably through a window left 5 seconds before the assassination would start.
We have to have this to explain 3 casings unnaturally put on floor and two shot-like impulses much before the assassination, and the missing part in th Zapruder film. SS had behaved strangely.
Oswald watched the limousine and saw the assassination, latest when the police got to TSBD he realized that he is made a patsy, there was no abort team, he left home. He knew the abort team was scam and whom to blame (Angleton?)
This is necessary to explain why Oswald took the gun and false ID, was taken alive, Tipped shot, Ruby shot Oswald.
And the rest is unchanged. JFK’s head was turned in the part we cannot see so that the bullet from South Knoll touched his neck from the side causing a danger of bleeding inside, so it had to be operated first. The Dal-Tex shooter shot three times with spacings 3.1s and 3.2s, which is possible.
The South Knoll shooter had an automatic set to two shots and he gave a short series. The final shot was Remington Fireball from the Grassy Knoll, maybe Files, maybe he heard this story. The umbrella team was telling if more shots are needed.
This part is necessary since many arguments show that there were more than 3 shots and this scenario best explains all details, and because of Files’ testimony and the umbrella team.
The names of people involved can be collected from these scenarios. LBJ’s role is confirmed by Hunt, cover-up shows it was not only LBJ. What changed in the US policy shows the issue was Dimona. Meyer Lansky is tied as a main conspirator by his gangsters having a direct role in this.
Lansky, LBJ, reason Dimona, wide support in the cover-up by friends of Israel. Ben Gurion may or may not have had a role in the assassination.
There are at least 3 “Magic Bullets” in the Warren Commission narrative about the Kennedy assassination:
1) Magic Bullet Nr 1 , which hit the pavement and caused a ricochet that wounded James Tague, standing on Commerce Street near the Railroad Underpass. Its trajectory did not match the TSBD 6th Floor, so the WC decided that this bullet must have first ricochet on an oak tree, changed direction, and finally end on Commerce Street.
2) Magic Bullet Nr 2: It hit the President’s head, continued in almost horizontal direction, and allegedly cracked the limousine windshield at the same height, just as if it had been fired by somebody standing at street level.
3) Magic Bullet Nr 3: The unsurpassable bullet behaving like a drone which caused 7 wounds, broke 3 bones, managed to escape and hide on a random stretcher that was used for neither of the victims, and even remained in brand new condition after such adventures.
I think that the history of the magic bullet 3, the present magic bullet, is the following:
The Dal-Tex shooter fired three shots, as 52.5s, 55.6s and 58.8s. The first shot was fired when the limousine was behind the traffic sign in order to cover what the Service Security men did. However, the limousine slowed down or stopped and when the Zapruder film appeared, it had to be edited by removing frames when the limousine is behind the traffic sign to hide that the car stopped. This shifted the first shot earlier: it was not possible to fire the gun so fast for the reduced number of frames. The result was that the first shot was given when JFK is fully visible, clearly before frame 205. Then it is obvious that he had not been hit, so the first shot had to be a miss. As the first shot was a miss, the last shot was a head shot, the second had to be the magic bullet.
What actually happened then? As I have written, if the Zapruder film is assumed to have all frames, then correlation of the Dictabelt and the Zapruder film shows that there had to be at least four shots. If the Zapruder film misses frames, this also shows that there was a conspiracy. Both ways there was a conspiracy. Now, let us accept that it was a conspiracy. Then we do not need to claim that the Zapruder film has all frames. It does not, the first shot was given between the frames 206 and 224 when the limousine is behind the traffic sign. This shot was not a miss, it hit JFK to the back. This solves the problem how a sniper could miss the first shot from that distance, especially to a car that had stopped. He did not miss.
I was in Texas when the assassination took place. Not Dallas – San Antonio.
I never believed in a conspiracy. It seemed so unlike the political process that I thought I knew. I had been born in Washington DC and had always been a political junkie. I just didn’t believe it. I had read Posner’s book but never any of the other many books with conspiracy theories.
I just couldn’t believe it.
But lately it’s clear that the Democrat Party has captured the FBI. Maybe in 1963 they had also intruded themselves into politics with a coup d’état.
So I read the Roger Stone book. It doesn’t actually prove anything but it sure makes you think. I was a kid in 1963. I had voted for Kennedy. I guess I loved Kennedy. So it was illuminating to recall how many others had reason to hate him. The Kennedy brothers were the sons of an organized crime figure who turned against their father’s criminal associates. Hoover hated him and Johnson did too.
There are many Trump haters today who fantasize about killing the president. The present illuminates the past.
I never believed in the Kennedy assassination theories but with the revelations by the FBI in the plotting against Trump – my mind has become more open.
I never noticed before that the motorcade was simply going down Main Street towards their destination – a straight run at a moderate speed past a lot of cheering crowds. Then they take a sharp series of turns which lowers their speed and put them right in front of an assassin or assassins who have set up an ambush there.
It doesn’t matter if you think it was Oswald alone or a team of CIA/Mafia gunmen. The improbable route took Kennedy right to his killers. It seems so obvious. Kennedy was presented as a target to the shooters who had set up there (in the School Book Depository or on the grassy knoll or both). It beggars credulity to imagine that that this was all just bad luck.
I don’t know what really happened but I can’t believe in that level of coincidence.
How the President X-Rays were forged to incriminate Oswald:
Dr David Mantik, eminent radiation oncologist and early member of the JFK truth community, is one of the few people who were authorised access to the President’s autopsy X-rays at NARA.
He found a number of anomalies on the X-Rays:
1) A T-shaped inscription within an X-Ray film layered both sides with an emulsion, indicating that the supposed original X-Ray had in fact been copied from another X-Ray (may be not that of the President).
2) A white patch with abnormal high density (a physical impossibility), extending from side to side (an anatomical impossibility), was added to the back of the skull to hide the exit wound and fake a shot from behind.
Such white patch was not present in the President’s pre-assassination X-rays.
3) A cross section of a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet (6.5 mm) , that was apparently completely missed by the autopsy doctors whose first responsibility was precisely to find bullet fragments, but was “discovered” in 1968 by the Ramsay panel.
Problem: this “bullet” appears on the frontal X-rays, but not on the lateral X-rays. In other terms, it is yet another magic bullet which this time only exist in 2-dimensions.
Dr Mantik has published his findings in peer-reviewed publications:
https://www.journals.ke-i.org/index.php/mra/article/view/177
The Tax Records/ Evidence of earnings of Lee Harvey Oswald, although identified as Assassination records, are withheld and cannot be made public, 55 years after the assassination.
The tax records would identify Oswald’s employers before he went to the USSR.
Who had the power to organise the assassination of President Kennedy and to maintain its continued and infallible cover-up to the day?
The role of the Secret Service, and of Lead Agent Roy Kellerman in particular, in allowing the assassination to take place is not just that of an abject failure. It is that of an active participation, by:
- Endorsing a motorcade route that was a model triangulated fire ambush setup
- Standing down all close protection from the President
- Failing to rescue the President and protect him with their own bodies, as was their obligation, and as was done with LBJ.
- Removing the President’s body at gun point from Parkland Hospital
- Supervising and “organising” the President’s autopsy at Bethesda to remove evidence of shots from the front.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/0XzSpCXAfenHpIi0MibClO2H4XlOOz8Dp2I1L46IWcNsgMzdv9C04JKrZi_njKceB1BX6xzYeWd9EA3QBGZJKMo=s0-d
Q: Who does the Secret Service report to?
A: To the US Treasury.
https://www.secretservice.gov/about/history/events/
Q: Who in practice controls the US Treasury?
A: The Banks.
Q: Who does the Secret Service report to?
A: To the US Treasury.
Is that true! But that’s absurd! The the US President is a captive all the time.
“Is that true! But that’s absurd! The the US President is a captive all the time.”
The Secret Service was created in 1865 to fight counterfeiting, and always reported to the Treasury. It was informally required by Congress to protect US Presidents after the 1901 assassination of President McKinley, but continued reporting to the Treasury.
There has been a re-organisation in 2003, and the SS now reports to the Department of Homeland Security. Whether this changes anything in practice is debatable, being given that the US banking/financial industry overrules both legislative and executive powers anyway.
But, yes, at the time President Kennedy was executed, the Secret Service reported to the Treasury, which itself is an appendix of the financial industry, who appoints the Secretary.
Certain leading agents within the Secret Service were the pivotal organisers and enablers of the assassination, as well as of the cover-up autopsy that ensued. They were absolutely indispensable to this crime, which would have never succeeded if they hadn’t organised it themselves.
The mob hit men are like choir boys next to the SS: they just pulled the trigger and took the money. And died a violent death when subpoenaed by the HSCA .
As for now, it is not just the US president which has become a hostage of the financial industry. The entire country has become the Banana Republic of Goldman Sachs.
How the Warren Commission framed Oswald:
A key witness whose testimony exonerated Oswald was disregarded by the Warren Commission.
Victoria Adams, an employee at the TSBD, had watched the assassination from her offices at the 4th floor with 3 other women. After a few seconds, she rushed down the stairs with colleague Sandra Styles to find out what happened, at the same time Oswald was allegedly descending from the 6th floor.
Miss Adams was in the stairs during the same time frame the Warren Commission put Oswald, and testified that he was not there.
She was the Nr 1 witness for this key material evidence. The Commission , however, excluded her altogether from the time test carried out at the TSBD.
Her testimony was “redacted” in the WC report.
The stenograph record of her testimony in front of the WC has disappeared altogether.
In 1999, author and journalist Barry Ernest found evidence that not only her testimony exonerated Oswald, but was also corroborated by her manager’s Miss Garner, who confirmed that Victoria Adams had gone down the stairs before police officer Marion Baker had arrived, on his way to check the 6th floor.
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/ernst-barry-the-girl-on-the-stairs
“The entire country has become the Banana Republic of Goldman Sachs.”
Exactly. I have a suggestion, change the representative democracy to the following model: divide people to groups of ten, they elect a representative to the next level. The next level are also group to units of 10 and are required to meet for 1/2 year and to study the cv of others members, then select one person to the next level. This goes on for
300 million = 3 * 10^8, you need 8 levels.
This continues for 8 levels and then at the 8th level the remaining 30 people elect the president. This takes 8* 1/2=4 years, a term. You get a president, who is the best among the peers on 8 levels, without any campaigns, no way for campaign financiers of media to manipulate the election process. You do not pay for the lower levels, or preferably to any level. All they are needed to do is to meet once a month: 6 times. Cheap, sure, protected against a take-over.
Your view was also that of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, the most eminent French philosopher of the 18th century Enlightenment Era. However, he was conscious that such participative democracy can only work with educated, conscious, informed citizens.
So how could this work today? Western populations are stupefied with disinformation, propaganda, lies, greed and materialistic pursuits, cheap entertainment, celebrity gossip, porn.
Things cannot change, apart as the unwanted consequence of a catastrophe. I believe that such catastrophe will happen under the form of an economic crisis of unprecedented scale and duration.
The supremacist tribal faction in control of the banking industry has not only taken part in the murder of President Kennedy: they have also destroyed the global economy with a fraudulent money system. This is bound to end very badly.
Personnally, what worries me most is not so much the question of democracy: it will not be resolved until things first get much worse. The biggest threat to humankind is a global showdown triggered by the likes of Netanyahu. The Banana Republic of Goldman Sachs is their main mercenary country: the Netanyahus of the world will destroy the planet rather then let their military pawn lose its hegemonic position.
Today, there is no valiant President Kennedy in power to try and stop WW3. God help us all, dear friend.
https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2018/08/03/newly-released-documents-reveal-two-u-s-soldiers-overheard-jfk-assassination-plan-committed-to-mental-institutions/
WTF is a mercury bullet?
Is it like the fillings they used to put in your teeth 40 years or so ago?
“Your view was also that of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, the most eminent French philosopher of the 18th century Enlightenment Era. However, he was conscious that such participative democracy can only work with educated, conscious, informed citizens.”
Rousseau was not yet aware of the danger of a take-over by press. Later the ideas of Paton, Montesquieu, Machiavelli and Rousseau were scrutinized, a hole was found and the theory of a take-over and a totalitarian state were formulated, and used. One must admit that the system does not work as it should if it has been taken over.
The essential problem in democracy today is that candidates are voted by masses. Masses are manipulated by media. Without a campaign a candidate cannot win. As a result, media owners and campaign financiers (the same group) decide who is the president, the same with representatives. Therefore the role of media and campaigns must be removed from the election process, yet it cannot be direct democracy, so there must be representatives. How to elect people so that you know the person you vote for? This is what I tried to solve: you can know only a small number of people, so election must be hierarchical and give enough time for getting to know the people from whom you have to choose.
The form I suggest is not participative democracy, where people actively participate in decisions, as is in Switzerland. It is representative, but with a election method that selects a person, not a program. Select on each step the most intelligent, honest, responsible and capable candidate. Multiple steps in the process makes it difficult to infiltrate.
I do not think the method presupposes educated, conscious, informed citizens as direct democracy maybe does (but, are Swizz such?). After 3-4 steps who are left are educated, conscious, informed citizens simply because they very probably are among the best of 1000-10,000 to get so far. In the early stages intelligent, educated, conscious and informed people are selected from among their friends, as the first 10 should be people you know and can be people you like, can be your family. That is fine in this system. Later it gets harder to convince the others on the peer level. There may be a problem of bribing, but it can be easier controlled here: no hiding of bribes to campaign support. Those would have to be real bribes, as the election system would not cost much. Threatening may also be a problem, but maybe it can be controlled. The vote among the 10 can be secret.
There can be a still better solution, but there should be a better system than the present one.
What is a “mercury bullet” in James Files words?
James Files, who confessed to having shot President Kennedy from the Grassy Knoll, stated that he used a FireBall XP-100, a weapon that was to be commercially released only late in 1963, but that him and his mob associates had used as an early prototype.
Files stated that he thought highly of the Fireball as an excellent weapon, but that early .222 fragmenting rounds would ricochet if they did not get a direct hit (on bone structure for instance). He could not afford a ricochet because he would not have the time to reload.
So Files had six .222 special “mercury” rounds made by a criminal associate in Chicago, nicknamed “Wolfman”. I know nothing about ammunition, but I know what characterises mercury in Physics: its high density. So adding mercury to a round would increase its overall mass, and make a ricochet less likely.
From the JFKMurderSolved discussion forum:
J2, would you comment on that?
In the early 90′s , Files summoned “Wolfman” to Joliet prison and ask him to speak up and corroborate his confession. One week later, “Wolfman” died in unclear circumstances without having being able to speak to the investigators.
“The essential problem in democracy today is that candidates are voted by masses. Masses are manipulated by media.”
Precisely. Any sensible person today knows that in the Western world the number 1 enemy of democracy and of collective good is the Press.
The Press belongs to vested interests which can use it at will to promote their covert agendas, without the so-called “independent” 4th power ever being accountable for its despicable propaganda.
The election method that you propose would work better for the collective good, but how would you bring it about in the real life? While angry, disenchanted European people keep voting for the “wrong” ,”extreme” parties, we are far from a tipping point, where the harm caused by the current propaganda system would be acknowledged, and radical change to the political system brought about.
Such a radical change has happened in Iceland when the people were confronted to the dramatic consequences of the 2008 crisis.
But Iceland is a small country, with a lesser importance to the global banking oligarchy, and with a more homogenous national identity. No such revolution will happen in larger Western countries, unless dramatic events disturb the current status quo.
Further radiographic evidence that President Kennedy was shot from the front:
Board certified neurologist Michael Chesser, M.D, was authorised access to the JFK assassination medical records and has produced a number of original and very interesting findings.
1) JFK was shot at the head from the front:
A trail of metallic debris visible on the top of JFK’s head shows the lighter debris having stopped at the front of the head, while the heavier ones travelled further towards the back of the head due to their higher momentum. It also shows the debris expanding as a cone, from the front of JFK’s head towards its back.
This is undeniable evidence of a headshot from the front.
See the amazing Slide 21 in his below presentation:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1gVYAE75fXgXk9eqV-Q4WcaT5k9ijUThSZfhbYKKvto0/edit#slide=id.p30
2) The President was shot at least twice in the head:
Dr Chesser applied a principle called Puppe’s rule stating that the course of a fracture line is always interrupted by an older fracture line.
He concludes that JFK was shot at least twice in the head, once from the front, once from the rear. See page 27 of his presentation.
3) The headshot from behind was likely fired from the Dal-Tex Building:
Rear headshot bullet trajectories proposed first by the Warren Commission, then by the HSCA who moved it about 10 cm higher do not match a shooter position at the TSBD. They match a shooter on the lower floors of the Dal-Tex building.
4) The following autopsy record was altered : X-Rays, brain photographs, photos of the back of the skull.
The Parkland doctors having stated that the cerebellum, the lower part of the brain, had come out of the skull during the resuscitation efforts, and Dr Humes at Bethesda annotating an autopsy sketch about “damage to the falx” (the upper membrane separating brain hemispheres), the photos of the brain currently at the National Archives can only but have been faked. They probably are of somebody else’s brain.
5) The 6.5 mm object simulating a MC round was most likely planted/superposed on the frontal X-ray.
Mercury bullet is just like in the Day of the Shakal by Frederic Forsyth telling of an assassination attack on de Gaulle. There were real assassination attacks on de Gaulle and one of the real snipers was Jean Souetre, a man mentioned as the assassin of JFK. A mercury bullet does work. It has a drop of liquid mercury inside, when the bullet hits a target, mercury spreads to all positions. It is one of the explosive bullets, only that it actually does not explode but makes a terrible mess. It is not at all preposterous that ín 1963 assassins would have used a mercury bullet as apparently it was used in assassination attempts against de Gaulle. American mob could have learned from it from Europe. Today, of course, you would use other type of explosive bullets. There are better ones now. That was the time.
Did you know that the plan in Forsyth’s book Dogs of war of a coup in an African country was actually tried by Margaret Thatcher’s son (he got convicted, Forsyth interrogated). Forsyth’s plots had a lot of reality in them, this is why we old people liked to read them, it was not so much bullshit.
Yes, we should really be talking about what to do, not if the assassination of JFK in 1963 was a conspiracy, which it was. So, it is like this. A typical blog like mine has 1000 visits a month, Ron Unz is far above the typical and has (Ron, could you provide the correct figure) maybe 50,000 visits a month. Then calculate how it reaches a population of 300 million. It does not, so this is not working.
But there is a practical rule in military sciences that every strategy has a counter strategy, it is only to find it. And we have all brain power needed to find it. So, of course, we can change the situation, but it requires an effort. First one should study the situation and make a plan. I could make a working plan if needed (but I do not need it), many people could make a working plan (some would do it). It is not so hard, has been done many times in the history. There are the old ways and then there are the new ways to do it.
Agree. Many of John Le Carre’s novels depict the real world of black operations much better than the BS one can read in the so-called”information” media.
I really believe that the JFK assassination issue is a current, not a past issue: it is the story of a “coup d’état” which is still not understood for what it was, the complete takeover of the largest democracy in the world by a malevolent Deep State.
What is most startling today is the continued cover-up, undermining of JFK truth-seekers, and total black-listing in the media, which amply demonstrates who committed the crime: the same people who today control the press.
But what very intelligent people like yourself, Ron Unz, and other authors on this website have understood is not obvious to the average Western citizen. The generalised use of the Internet has been in place for over 25 years, and has brought about only small-scale, occasional changes. The Internet cannot counteract the deluge of MSM propaganda.
Change will come soon, however, by other means, because the current global economic status quo cannot and will not hold on for much longer. There is a major economic crisis coming, which will cause a lot of suffering but may also, hopefully, pave the way for better political systems.
A very good post.
Especially the first two paragraphs.
They nicely confirm a couple of things re this topic.
As for the last, “be careful what you wish for, it might just come true”.
I mean, should the crisis happen, it will, first, definitely cause a lot of suffering, but, the end result could very well be much worse than the current paradigm.
How President Kennedy’s throat wound could be explained:
Hello J2; From what I read, the most difficult thing to understand is the President’s front wound at the throat.
1) There are very compelling arguments for a shot from the front going through the windshield: a) the Secret Service have gone to extreme lengths to quickly replace the windshield, b) a bullet hole the size of a pencil was identified by experienced marksmen, c) and by George Whitaker, the glass specialist at the Ford plant.
2) Dr David Mantik has a very interesting explanation for the wound throat: if a bullet had been shot through the windshield towards the President, it may not have entered his throat, but would have caused a narrow cone of glass shards to hit him following the direction of the bullet. A jet of glass that would have spared everybody around him. This assumption is supported by other wounds Mr Kennedy sustained on his cheeks, lungs, etc..
http://themantikview.dealeyplazauk.org.uk/pdf/The_Medical_Evidence_Decoded.pdf
3) Researcher Doug Weldon provided convincing demonstration that this frontal shot would have come from the South Knoll.
4) The shot to the President back was only shallow, and no bullet could be found. This is confirmed by the very few honest and decent people who attended his autopsy, FBI agents Sibert and O’Neill.
Sibert was so puzzled by the absence of bullet in the back wound that he enquired about the possibility of an “ice bullet”.
5) So this is yet another BS from the Warren Commission: the throat wound and the back wound were caused by 2 different hit men, let alone by a single “magic bullet”.
The power frequency analysis of the gunshots could match this scenario:
1) Shot at 52.2:First shooter at Dal-Tex- hits the tarmac on Main Street – Ricochet on James Tague
2) Shot at 53.2: South Knoll shooter, through the windshield – jet of glass causes JFK’s throat wound.
3) Shot at 55.6: First shooter at Dal-Tex – Shallow wound to JFK’s back
4) Shot at 55.8 : Second shooter at Dal-Tex – Hits Connally
5) Shot at 55.8: First shooter at Dal-Tex – First head shot
6) Shot at 55.9: Grassy Knoll shooter (James Files) – Second head shot with the FireBall
The distance would explain why the amplitudes are weaker for 53.2.
What do you think?
“I mean, should the crisis happen, it will, first, definitely cause a lot of suffering, but, the end result could very well be much worse than the current paradigm”
I don’t wish for a crisis, I hate the suffering it will bring, but it is bound to happen when the giant Ponzi scheme created by the Zionist bankers in control of the USA will collapse. Unfortunately this time, the “Minsky moment” will have unprecedented consequences.
As per the endgame, if even ordinary, insignificant citizens like us are aware that the world is headed for a major change of paradigm, so are people like Xi, Putin and all the leaders now gravitating in their orbit. This people are smart, they are strong, and they are prepared.
I see.
O.K.
FBI Agent O’Neill demonstrates President Kennedy’s gapping exit wound:
Courtesy of researcher Vince Palamara, a video of an honourable man, autopsy eyewitness and FBI agent O’Neill, describing the gapping exit wound at the back of the skull, result of a shot from the front.
Apologies , that was meant to be:
5) Shot at 58.8: First shooter at Dal-Tex – First head shot
6) Shot at 58.9: Grassy Knoll shooter (James Files) – Second head shot with the FireBall
Your the throat shot idea is quite good. Let’s accept it. It is better than a shot from the side to a turned head. There is still a small modification to be made.
52.5s is shot from Dal-Tex, JFK is visible in the film (frame 196-204), looks like a miss.
53.2s a throat shot from the South Knoll with glass hitting the neck.
53.8s from the South Knoll, second of a short series, through same hole in the windscreen.
55.6s shot from Dal-Tex hits Connally
58.8s shot from Dal-Tex
58.9s head shot from the Grassy Knoll (But should there not be another hole in the windscreen?)
Now, when is JFK hit to the back?
1) If we assume the car stopped behind the sign and the Zapruder film misses frames, some 7 frames, JFK was hit in 52.5s to the back and 58.8s hit him to the head.
2) If the Zapruder film shows correctly, 52.5s was a miss. Then 58.8s hit JFK to the back. Is this possible, that there was no head shot from the back?
Any ideas?
Hello J2;
I have read again your article, really, really interesting.
You also have a potential shot at 55.8, straight after the shot at 55.6. This potential shot will fit very well in explaining what happened: we need 6 shots, not just 5, to make the testimonies come together.
Out of this 6 shots, 1 set of 2 (shots 3 and 4) have happened extremely close from each other, which is exactly what the witnesses remember. The other set of 2 (shots 5 and 6) were so close that they would have been confused for each other.
1) Shot 1 at 52.5: From Shooter 1 at Dal- Tex (Nicoletti)- It is a miss, hits the tarmac, a chip off the tarmac hits bystander James Tague.
2) Shot 2 at 53.2: From Shooter 2 at South Knoll. Pierces the windshield, and causes a cone of glass to hit JFK at the throat, the cheeks,..
3) Shot 3 at 55.6: From Shooter 1 at Dal-Tex (Nicoletti)- Causes shallow wound to JFK’s back.
4) Shot 4 at 55.8: From Shooter 3 at Dal-Tex – Hits Connally
5) Shot 5 at 58.8: From Shooter 1 at Dal-Tex – First head wound to JFK from the back.
6) Shot 6 at 58.9: From Shooter 4 at the Grassy Knoll (James Files)- Mortal head wound to JFK with fragmenting mercury bullet.
Note:
– Shots 3 and 4 are the two shots that witnesses said happened almost instantaneously.
- After shots 3 and 4 are when Dark Complected Man starts waving: Up, Up.
- I put Shooter 3 at the Dal-Tax because so far, I found nothing proving that there was any shooter at the TSBD. Quite the contrary: there were witnesses going down the TSBD stairs just after the shooting, and they met nobody.
- Regarding shots 3 and 4, they could possibly be swapped, Connally hit by shot 3 and JfK’s back by shot 4. Requires studying further the Z. film.
- There were at least 4 hit men shooting, in at least 3 different locations.
- Shooter 1 (Charles Nicoletti) at Dal-Tex 2nd floor
- Shooter 2 (Unknown / Marshall Caifano) at South Knoll
- Shooter 3 (Unknown / Marshall Caifano) at Dal-Tex
- Shooter 4 (James Files) at Grassy Knoll.
Thoughts?
Yes, 55.8s can be a shot, and it is quite possible that 53.8s is not. There are only three shots in this time period that have clear thick tails in the power spectrum: 52.5s, 55.6s and 58.8s and a suitable impulse shape and length.
The potential signals at 53.2, 53.8 and 55.8 may be shots, but not from a similar rifle. One thing that confuses interpreting the impulses is that a radio can turn on because of the impulse (voice activated) and it makes a beep (asks to communicate). The beep would be on top of the shot impulse. Other loud noises appearing in the communication channel could be e.g. someone hitting the radio (not so loud, but so close to the microphone), so other impulses are always possible, but I am quite certain that there are the shots because the Audiograph is tampered.
There are also two impulses that I would include to the abort scenario 44s, 45.3s, they also have rather thick tails and they can be dummies shot at the TSBD with the MC rifle, two of the three casings, but shot before the final assassination began. One casing from a previous shot.
I think your scenario for the shots is perfectly good. It explains everything. Let’s accept it. The scenario does not need to be absolutely the correct one, we cannot know, it only has to fit all that is known so that no evidence can prove it incorrect.
Hi J2. Thanks for the thorough reply.
I will read in more details your comments about the impulses’ interpretation.
I have tried to re-constitute the assassination events by encompassing all of the information and testimonies that I found plausible or credible. And I found out that it fits incredibly well with your interpretation of the time domain plots in your article. This cannot be random: it means that you have done an excellent work at identifying the shots.
Some of the JFK researchers have done an amazing job, particularly the ones working on the medical evidence. I am not surprised that they are never mentioned in the press. Their arguments are so strong that they cannot be challenged, just ignored.
My scenario is based on James Files’ testimony containing a large part of truth. I stand by that : his story is far too complex to be a hoax.
I was very pleased to find out yesterday that respected researcher Jim Marrs believed his story, too.
What our month-long exercise proves is that today, anybody with a reasonable access to Internet can understand and propose a credible version of the assassination events, a version which explains all the anomalies, testimonies and contradictory medical evidence. A version which makes the official narrative look for what it is: a despicable conspiracy against the people of America.
Sometime in the future, an author or a film director will compile all the new information gathered since the 90′s , and will produce a new book/film to tell the story of how President Kennedy was betrayed and executed by a young man who was turned into a killing machine by his country’s security services. The JFK assassination story is yet to be told,
Iris, I think it is a very good scenario. If you have some time why don’t you write an article to Unz (or somewhere) with the scenario and who did it and why. It does not need to be a long article, but I do not think many people follow these comments (seems to be only Sean and peterAUS), just a followup to Ron’s articles. If Ron Unz does not like to publish it (though he should and I think might), we can think of something (I can for instance write to him, whatever that might help). I think it would be worth to get the scenario more publicity. Of course, if really needed, I can do write it, but preferably you: you provided most of the interesting information, I only the Dictabelt stuff. Some of your pictures in the article would be good.
Thanks for the kind words. I do realise that nobody, except you (and the moderator) is reading my comments
However, I think that this topic is so important that it deserves spending some of my spare time. I treat this thread like a depository : I try to summarise and post the most significant findings available in the JFK truth community. I will stop when it reaches the symbolic 1000 comments mark.
In 3 months time will come the 55th anniversary of JFK’s untimely death. I am sure some talented author on the Unz Review will write a tribute article to him. They may even look at this discussion thread for alternative sources, who knows? As for me, my English is not good enough. I may write something, someday, in my native French, but for the time being, I will continue researching.
I saw on your blog that you were interested in writing novels: this would be a fantastic topic, you know? The updated information about President Kennedy assassination needs to be brought up to the public under a pedadogical and fluid narrative, like the Oliver Stone film did. This will happen, one way or another. With regards.
“With regards.”
Thanks to you for your great comments. I will stop here. Have to do something else.
Was David Atlee Phillips the CIA handler for both Oswald and James Files?
The notion that David Atlee Phillips ran an operation involving Oswald in the weeks before President Kennedy’s assassination is far from implausible. When he died in 1987, Phillips left behind an outline for a novel about the Mexico City station in 1963, entitled “The AMLASH Legacy”, where AMLASH was the code name for the operation to kill Castro . The role of the Phillips character in the events of 1963 was described as follows:
” I was one of the two case officers who handled Lee Harvey Oswald. After working to establish his Marxist bona fides, we gave him the mission of killing Fidel Castro in Cuba. I helped him when he came to Mexico City to obtain a visa, and when he returned to Dallas to wait for it I saw him twice there. We rehearsed the plan many times: In Havana Oswald was to assassinate Castro with a sniper’s rifle from the upper floor window of a building on the route where Castro often drove in an open jeep. Whether Oswald was a double-agent or a psycho I’m not sure, and I don’t know why he killed Kennedy. But I do know he used precisely the plan we had devised against Castro. Thus the CIA did not anticipate the President’s assassination but it was responsible for it. I share that guilt.”
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/CIA%20Phillips%20David%20Atlee/Item%2011.pdf
Did the Dallas police falsify the ballistic evidence to incriminate Oswald?
The Dallas police based the case against Oswald on finding 3 spent cartridges in the so-called 6th Floor “Sniper Nest”.
1) But Noel Twyman, author of “Bloody Treason” made a startling discovery. One of the supposed “spent hulls” shown on the police “evidence photo” was in fact a live round.
2) This discovery is corroborated by Gary Shaw’s finding of a Dallas police evidence sheet that listed only 2 spent hulls and one live round.
Did the Dallas police falsify photo evidence to incriminate Oswald?
This photographs of the back yard of Lee Harvey Oswald’s residence at 214 West Neely Street in Dallas, Texas, were released from the Dallas Police archives in 1992.
In the first, a man holding up a gun and a newspaper have been cut out of the photograph.
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339222/m1/1/high_res/
In the second, a Dallas detective called Brown holds the same posture as Oswald in the picture where he is supposed to present communist literature.
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/fulllength-portrait-of-john-cappel-taken-to-recreate-a-widely-of-picture-id171684768?s=612×612
..Which finally leads to the infamous Life magazine cover “proving” Oswald was a communist lone gun man:
One cannot make this up. It just beggars belief.
Mrs Kennedy saw the President being shot at from the Grassy Knoll:
Jackie Kennedy gave her first hand, eye witness testimony of exactly what she saw happen to her husband to friend and historian Arthur Schlesinger. She said:
“On the day Jack was murdered, I happened to be looking at the large green Stemmons Freeway sign, as we were passing the grassy knoll.
I saw a chunk of the green wooden sign suddenly shatter outwards and fly towards Jack and me. Then Jack was hit in the throat.
I reached out for him. As I did, he was shot in the right side of his head. Just above his right eye. It was horrible.
I saw the right side of his head fly onto the back of the car. I leaned back and reached for it. I just wanted to put Jack back together. It was just an instinctual response.
In hind sight, I guess that was the first bullet smashing thru the freeway sign that hit Jack in the throat.
I heard 5 shots fired at Jack from behind the freeway sign.
I can still hear those 5 shots in my dreams. All the shots seem to come from behind the freeway sign.”
JFK researcher John Costella tried to match a photos of the original Stemmons Freeway sign as seen on the Zapruder film, with a photo taken by Peter Barnes, of the Dallas Police, on 27 Nov 1963, from the spot Zapruder was filming.
The photos were inconsistent with each other.
As per the information he gathered, Attorney Jim Garrison stated that the “Stemmons Freeway” original sign was removed and replaced the day following the assassination.
Nobody knows where the original sign is.
The Warren Commission ignored this part of Mrs Kennedy’s testimony.
http://22november1963.org.uk/jim-garrison-dealey-plaza-shooting
The condition of President Kennedy clothing after he was shot discredits the Warren Commission “Magic Bullet” theory:
If a bullet had indeed exited President Kennedy’s throat, corresponding damage would have appeared on his clothing at this same location. This is not the case:
- Neither his shirt, nor his tie had any trace of metal (unlike his clothing around his back wound)
- His shirt only showed a slit cut by a nurse.
- His tie only showed a nick which size is not compatible with a bullet exiting.
This is the work done by a JFK researcher, Ashton Gray, which demonstrates convincingly that the narrow slit on the shirt cannot have been caused by a bullet:
Similarly, the nick on the tie cannot have been made by an exiting bullet:
Did Jack Rubinstein murder Lee Harvey Oswald 0ut of his loyalty to Israel?
On the night of JFK’s assassination, Jack Ruby went to the Synagogue, and then came back to the Dallas Police Department accompanied with 2 ” reporters” to attend the Oswald midnight conference.
“At 9:00 p.m. he (Ruby) telephoned Ralph Paul but was unable to persuade Paul to join him at synagogue services.” (WC Report, Pg 338)
“From his apartment, Ruby drove to Temple Shearith Israel, arriving near the end of a 2-hour service which had begun at 8 p.m.” (WC Report, Pg 339)
“Ruby is known to have made his way, by about 11:30 p.m., to the third floor of the Dallas Police Department.” (WC Report, Pg 339)
‘I saw Jack and two out-of-state reporters, whom I did not know, leave the elevator door and proceed toward those television cameras, to go around the corner where Captain Fritz’s office was. Jack walked between them. these two out-of-state reporters had big press cards pinned on their coats, great big red ones, I think they said “President Kennedy’s Visit to Dallas-Press”, or
“At 9:00 p.m. he (Ruby) telephoned Ralph Paul but was unable to persuade Paul to join him at something like that. And Jack didn’t have one, but the men on either side of him did. and they walked pretty rapidly from the elevator area past the policeman, and Jack was bent over like this-writing on a piece of paper, and talking to one of the reporters, and pointing to something on the piece of paper, he was kind of hunched over.” Newsman John Rutledge (WC Report Pg 340)
“Detective Augustus M. Eberhard, who also recalled that he first saw Ruby earlier in the evening, said Ruby carried a note pad and professed to be a translator for the Israeli press.” (WC Report Pg. 342)
The topic of who these two reporters were has never been investigated.
The only information about them can be found in Detective’s Eberhardt testimony:
On November 22, 1963, EBERHARDT was on duty from 3 :00 p .m . to 11 :00 p .m . on that day, which was the day the President was assassinated . He recalled seeing JACK RUBY in the hallway on the third floor at about 6.00 or 7.00 p .m ., and asked him what he was doing there and Ruby:’ told him that he had brought some sandwiches over and was acting as an interpreter for some Israeli reporters,. RUBY was carrying a note book and he thinks he had on some kind of a lapel badge such as reporters were wearing . He could not be sure about this but recalled that when he asked him what he was doing there, RUBY had pushed his lapel with his note book when
he answered about acting as interpreter .
EBERHARDT said that he might be mistaken about this press card. He also remembered that RUBY said he had bought sandwiches and had remarked that he had brought nothing but “Kosher stuff”.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Eberhardt_Ex_5026.pdf
When administered the lie detector test, Jack Ruby displayed increased anxiety when asked about his presence at the Dallas Police Department:
“Did you go to the Dallas police station at any time on Friday November 22, 1963, before you went to the synagogue? I asked him about this question later when he responded “No,” and I noticed a physiological change. (WC Pg 594).
Was Jack Ruby worried to be asked a question about “the two reporters”?
Incidentally, in her memoirs, Mrs Lea Rabin mentioned that Yitzhak Rabin was at Dallas “a few hours before the assassination”.
Israeli journalist Barry Chamish believed that one these two “reporters” was Yitzhak Rabin.
Who used the Mafia to execute President Kennedy?
Mob figures most commonly accused of being behind the JFK assassination are those of Italian- American “Mafia” figures Carlos Marcello of New Orleans and Santo Trafficante of Tampa, Florida. Both were actually subordinates of Mossad-associated Meyer Lansky. Marcello and Trafficante reported to Lansky—not vice versa.
The nephew and namesake of the infamous Chicago Mafia boss, Sam Giancana, also believed to be a possible sponsor of the JFK assassination, has revealed that the real boss of the Chicago Mafia was an American Jewish associate of Meyer Lansky, Hyman “Hal” Larner, who, while pulling the strings of Giancana and the Chicago Mafia, was also actively collaborating in international intrigue with Israel’s Mossad.
“One of Larner’s closest friends was Meyer Lansky, and the two shared in their passionate Zionism and defense for the Jews’ divine right to the land of Israel”.[In Giancana, 2004]
Why was the “Stemmons Freeway” sign forged in the Zapruder film?
Applying the simple optics principle of Parallax effect, physicist and JFK researcher John Costella has demonstrated that the “Stemmons Freeway” sign as seen in the Zapruder film has been altered.
The lens within a camera such as Zapruder’s slightly distorts a frame over its corners; this is called the “pincushion” effect. The pincushion effect can be correctesd by computer, and will effect all frames in the same fashion, in such a manner as one object can be aligned to itself as pictured in another frame.
When the same correction is applied to frames displaying the “Stemmons Freeway” sign, it never align with itself. The sign shows different angles with the surroundings, depending on which frame it is pictured.
This result is not compatible with Physics principles. Once the pincushion effect has been corrected, the parallax effect can make things move in all direction in a 2-D, but it cannot make them rotate and change angle.
The logical conclusion is that the Zapruder film was forged to insert an intact “Stemmons Freeway” sign, probably:
- To hide the first shot at President Kennedy coming from the front.
- To hide the sign being hit and chipped by a shot from the Grassy Knoll (as recalled by Mrs Kennedy).
What does the “Other Zapruder film” show that the extant Zapruder film does not?
A clandestine, different version of the Zapruder film exists, that started circulating on US university campuses in the 70′s.
A number of JFK researchers have watched this “Other Zapruder Film” in unrelated occasions, and even different countries; they highlighted similar differences with the extant version.
Key differences are:
1- Better quality, much sharper images with great colour rendition, as if shot by a professional, and later used to produce an “amateurish” version *(the extant version known by the public).
2- It fully shows the presidential limousine turn from Houston into Elm Street without any interruption, the driver William Greer taking too wide a turn and targeting the service road along the TSBD instead of Elm , coming almost to a halt and struggling to re-join Elm Street.
3- Just before the shooting starts, Umbrella Man starts frenetically pumping his umbrella up and down, as a signal.
4- After the first shots, while the President is still only wounded, The Cuban/Dark Complexioned Man step directly over the road, holding his fist closed. (Such sign means “Stop” in infantry sign language). The SS driver then completely stops the limo for 2 to 3 seconds.
5- Missed shots hit the Stemmons Freeway sign.
6- The head wounds occur in two very close stages, with the head going first forward, then strongly projected backwards.
7- Details of the head shots are even more harrowing, with a lot of blood and gore displayed.
French journalist William Reymond believes that this “Other” Z. film stems from a secret copy held by Dallas oil man H. L. Hunt.
Was Umbrella Man a signal man indicating to multiple shooters to fire on President Kennedy?
Viewers who watched the “Other Zapruder film” reported that Umbrella Man was furiously pumping the umbrella up and down to order the firing.
The HSCA official version states that Umbrella Man was a Louie Steven Witt, who held up his umbrella in front of the President as sign of contempt for his father’s positive views of Chamberlain’s conciliatory policies.
From the still photos of the assassination, however, we can see:
Umbrella Up:
Umbrella Down:
Umbrella Man and Dark Complexed Man activities summarised by researcher Dr James Fetzer:
What utter bullshit that it was the mob who killed JFK,yes Ruby had ties to the mob but he had waaay deeper ties to the C.I.A. how else do you think he had free run of the Dallas police station,after all he was the go to man in the gun running to Cuba and other C.I.A. dirty tricks,and how would the mob benefit by bringing down the federal government on their neck.
So the question you should be asking is who benefited from the death of JFK.Bobby and King
Big oil for he was doing away with the $27.00 per barrel subsidy on oil which run into the millions upon millions.
The banking cartel/Federal Reserve for he had ordered the printing of millions of dollars in Federal Notes.
The C.I.A.for he threatened to smash them into a thousand pieces.
The Joint Chiefs for he stood in the way of a nuclear strike on Russia.
He had been invited to Moscow where he planed on going in Feb. after his re-election stating that he was going to put the cold war to bed,(all those billions flowing into the MIC would dry up and they would have to make an honest profit) that there were no reasons two different ideaolgy’s could’nt exist in the same world
The business sector for he had signed an ordered to remove all U.S. troops from Nam within a year and those billions were slipping away,
Always ask who benefits then you will find the [email protected]!
“Always ask who benefits then you will find the [email protected]!”
No, because your list misses one. There was and is a cover-up. Ask who can make a long-term cover-up, which includes media and prominent people in science in the Scientific Panel, who a few years ago wrote a faulty rebuttal of an article of Donald Thomas. For sure it is the big oil men who are still angry at JFK and the Joint Chiefs, who have not yet noticed that the Soviet Union disappeared.
Always ask first who had the capability to do it, only then ask who benefits. This is the correct order in all crime investigation.
President Kennedy shot twice at the head, by 3 different gunmen:
A very interesting scenario of the shooting at Dealy Plaza has been proposed by Dr Randolph Robertson, M.D, a board-certified radiologist. Using a holistic approach combining the Zapruder film, the Dictabelt audio recording, photographic analysis, as well as his own radiological studies of the President’s X-rays, Dr Robertson establishes the following sequence of events:
Shot 1: President Kennedy is shot at the back from the Dal-Tex building.
Shot 2: Connally is shot at the chest and thigh from the TSBD.
Shot 3: President Kennedy is shot at the head from the Dal-Tex building.
Shot 4: Almost simultaneously, President Kennedy is also shot at the head from the Grassy Knoll.
Shot 5: Fired from the TSBD, misses and hits the windshield.
Dr Robertson’s research results are very rational and difficult to counter. No wonder his works has been completely ignored by the immutable media conspiracy.
Analysis of the skull fragments shows that President Kennedy was shot twice at the head, by two separate shooters:
President Kennedy’s skull broke in fragment when shot. Some of these bone fragments were conveyed to the autopsy room, others disappeared.
- 1) The “Delta” fragment was retrieved by Mrs Kennedy on the back of the limousine; she handed it over to the Parkland doctors.
- 2)The “Harper fragment”, found on the South side of Elm Street by William Harper one day after the assassination, was taken to a pathology doctor who took photos of it. It was handed over to the FBI, then to the President’s physician Dr Buckley, and then it simply vanished. Same as the President’s brain.
-3) The Weitzman fragment, found by deputy sheriff Seymour Weitzman has gone missing altogether. No photo or record of it exist.
Other small pieces of the skull were retrieved from the limousine.
In this presentation, Dr Randoplh Roberston M.D. explains how a skull reconstruction based on this fragments can demonstrate that two head shots were taken at President Kennedy.
A convincing narration of President Kennedy’s assassination by synchronisation of the Zapruder film and of the Dictabelt recording:
If we were not living under sad, pathetic dictatorships, this presentation would be shown during prime-time on TV channels:
“Who owned and controlled the “Snipers’ Nest” President Kennedy was murdered from?”
The principal “Snipers’ Nest” President Kennedy was shot from was the Dal-Tex Building. There is much evidence for that fact on which otherwise differing JFK truth-researchers largely agree: the Dal-Tex Building offers the only possible trajectories for the President’s back and rear head wound, and for the missed shot on Main Street.
Control of access and egress to the main shooting location was crucial to allow not only a successful assassination conspiracy, but also an efficient cover-up of its aftermath. So, who owned and controlled the real Snipers’ Nest?
- The Dal-Tex Building had seven floors. Zapruder’s offices occupied the 4th/5th floors. Zapruder was a Zionist and a high-degree mason.
He became famous for filming the assassination in fatal circumstances where the press coach which usually preceded and filmed the presidential limousine had been strangely dismissed.
-The co-owner of the Dal-Tex Building was David Weisblat, a major financier of the Anti-Defamation League, with ties to Israeli Intelligence and key part of the Israeli lobby.
- The other rumoured co-owner of the Dal-Tex Building was Morris D. Jaffe, a Dallas businessman of jewish-hispanic heritage with close ties to LBJ, who became rich thanks to controversial deals with the US army,
- Jaffe was the son-in-law of Sam Bloom, an influential Jewish member of the Dallas Citizen Council who was instrumental in defining the motorcade’s Trade Mart destination and bringing it to the ambush set up at Dealy Plaza.
- Sam Bloom later exerted pressure onto Dallas mayor and the DPD to handle Oswald publicly in front of the press, thus enabling his execution by Jacob Leon Rubinstein.
- A number of firms in the Dal-Tex Building used the phone number of one Morty Freedman, who was active in the Zionist community and who was behind the Dallas Uranium & Oil Company, which was possibly helping Israel manufacture weapons. His offices were at the 3rd floor of the Dal-Tex Building with unobstructed view to the President’s limousine.
- Morty Freedman was the brother-in-law of Sam Bloom.
Zionist involvement in the fortress used as principal location to murder President Kennedy simply defies the odds.
The Dal-Tex Building had seven floors. Zapruder’s offices occupied the 4th/5th floors. Jewish Abraham Zapruder was a Zionist and 32-degree Scottish mason.
This alone defies all odds and nails the case even without the other information. It is just like 9/11. Great work!
Hi J2;
Thanks ever so much for your kind words.
I have come to one main conclusion about the Kennedy assassination: it was a “smoke and mirrors” operation: it was staged so as every time a layer of mystery is peeled out, another one is met. ( I found the same conclusion in Colonel Fletcher Prouty’s letter to Attorney Jim Garrison).
https://riversong.wordpress.com/l-fletcher-proutys-letter-to-jim-garrison/
The assassination was staged, for instance, with many criminal characters deliberately made present at Dallas, but only a small number taking part in the actual shooting. This was very clever, because even people who understood that Oswald was just a decoy were in that manner made to follow many red herrings.
Similarly, insistence on the TSBD was purposely designed to divert attention from the real, main shooting location, which was in the Dal-Tex building.
A correct approach of the Kennedy assassination requires to be selective and pick up the most relevant facts out of many false leads deceptively planted on purpose.
Total control over the Dal-Tax Building by people with close ties to Israel is a fundamental indication of who organised the assassination.
James Files, aka James Sutton, confessed in a taped interview in 1994, that he put a bullet in Kennedy’s right temple from the grassy knoll. He used a Remington fireball with mercury content. His boss was David Atlee Phillips, CIA. It is a very convincing interview. One shooter rode down to Dallas with the FBI. He says the CIA. FBI, in concert with the mafia boss Sam Giacanna, pulled this off for LBJ. George HW Bush was in Dallas that day. Oswald never got Off a shot.
In January 2004, E. Howard Hunt gave a taped interview with his son, Saint John Hunt, claiming that LBJ was the instigator of the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and that it was organised by David Atlee Phillips,
James Files interview is hours long but worth it. FBI blew him off saying his confession didn’t coincide with Warren Commission. They tried to kill him. He shot a couple of cops in the process and was in jail I believe 50 years.
Many people discuss different versions of the film. I think you may find this description informative; I have heard of similar accounts. The point is that most of us have a certain version imprinted into our minds that don’t really reflect what happened. Anyway, I hope you find this interesting. I think this was taped in 2009 and Jim passed away in 2010.