Wouldn’t the German portion of Texas be another one of these pockets?

Swedes (as well as Germans) are also heavy drinkers and Norwegians are teetotalers. A big split in the American Lutheran Church happened because of Norwegian American support for prohibition as opposed to German and Swedish Lutherans who did not support it.

[…] does appear to be heavily German. Yet it is thoroughly red. Indeed, as we saw in my earlier post Rural White Liberals – a Key to Understanding the Political Divide, I noted that the Plains are the area where Steve Sailer’s “affordable family […]

[…] You know something is strange when the descendants of Scandinavian immigrants in America are practicing a variant of Jante Law multiple generations after the first stock of founding immigrants — long after they have forgotten how to speak Swedish or Danish or whatever. It might even make you wonder sometime. Why haven’t the corrupt institutions of America polluted them yet? [See Maps of the American Nations and Rural White Liberals – a Key to Understanding the Political Divide] […]

[…] A Tentative Ranking of the Clannishness of the “Founding Fathers” Sound Familiar? Flags of the American Nations The Cavaliers Maps of the American Nations Rural White Liberals – a Key to Understanding the Political Divide […]

[…] Flags of the American Nations The Cavaliers Maps of the American Nations Rural White Liberals – a Key to Understanding the Political Divide […]

[…] we’ve seen in my earlier post on the matter (Rural White Liberals – a Key to Understanding the Political Divide), significant regional differences in the White American vote exists. Particularly, there is a […]

[…] Of course, had RR been following along here, he would have noticed that I have discussed more than a few unflattering characteristics about “Northern Europeans” (specifically Northwest Europeans and their descendants). See An HBD Summary of the Foundations of Modern Civilization, How Inbred are Europeans, and Rural White Liberals – a Key to Understanding the Political Divide. […]

That’s because the southern racists joined the GOP.

That tidal wave is confine to the south because the whites up north come from a different culture. Have you noticed that the GOP has been losing (not gaining) seats in the north since a generation ago?

Isn’t the upper Midwest a bit of a swing region. I think Sailers whole “keep republicans relevant another cycle or two” strategy involved going after white voters in those regions. They are still swing states.

Ronald Reagan came from not far from the Midlands region of the Midwest, from Dixon, Illinois. He probably is the most prominent representative who exemplifies the temperament of the region. There were some utopian communities setup in that part of the country, such as the Amana one in Iowa, so those might have been liberal-minded, after a fashion. However, I would hazard a guess that the only real reason why some Democratic voters have remained in such parts–for now–would relate back to the fact that a tidal wave of sea change has been rearing up from the South, and will continue well North. Remember when the “Solid South” meant Democratic?

“I could easily see middle Americans embracing a socialist system if they think it would help them.”

I think you make an interesting point. Look at the Progressive era. Look at William Jennings Bryan, George Norris, and Henry A. Wallace. Look at the prairie populism during the depression that produced the only socialist banking system in the US (The Bank of North Dakota). I think ‘middle America’ will always be a bit socially conservative. Economic conservatism, on the other hand, does not have a lock on the region.

You have to consider what words like “liberal” and “conservative” mean. You say you are liberal, but most liberals, I believe, would disagree. There are three main “political” issues that I look at when talking about the the left-right divide. There is the divide between “nationalists” and “internationalists.” There is the divide between cultural liberals and cultural conservatives on attitudes toward sex and marriage. And then there is economics. Which one of those things is not like the other? A feminist who wants a society where women will be promiscuous wants that because THAT is her utopia. A conservative who believes in traditional marriage wants that because THAT is her utopia. The feminist and the traditional conservative want radically different ends. In contrast, most fiscal conservatives and fiscal socialists honestly believe that their system will help the poor better. They disagree on the means, but they agree on the ends. I could easily see middle Americans embracing a socialist system if they think it would help them. I don’t think fiscal conservatism is programmed into them.

Hey WP-

I’m probably the ‘whitest’ guy possible, genetically speaking. I ancestry.com’d my family last year back to 1200’s Sweden. (The nick I’m using is one of my ancestors.) I do get what you’re trying to say, though separating out the prescriptive from the descriptive is a bit difficult for me. And I do understand that there are some issues with too multiculturalism as an ideal. For one thing, there’s Gause’s Law of Exclusion where different species can not occupy the same space at the same time, and that this can apply to human races as well as species. Multicultural societies are ephemeral, fleeting things. The brief flame burns brightly.

But I don’t think you can look to Scandinavian Midlanders or the Midlands in general to hop on board for any of this “White unitary nationalism” stuff. In fact, with respect, that kind of talk weirds me the hell out. Just speaking for myself, I feel more affinity for my neighbor, for my city, for my region and for my country than a set of 30-100 proposed genes that code for an oxidative tyrosine derivative expression that we collectively decide to call “race”. I think if you look at the history of the Midland…if some full-on “race war” erupts or whatever it is you’re warning about, we’ll most likely become a refugee belt, a new Trail of Tears where people without enough melanin in their skin make their way to the only place they can live in peace. Kind of the purpose we’ve always served. You realize that we have more in common with Ontario, Canada (both “mosaic societies” founded by the same exact settler cultures)? So maybe the Midlands will be re-united again, our brothers in the north joining us again, and we can be a safe haven for anyone who wants to work hard, pay their fair share, and try to lead a decent life, regardless of whatever the Bitter Ulcer of White Rage thinks about the matter.

Jayman —

My sense is that these attitudes are likely to change, rapidly. After all, massive Mexican immigration is hitting even upper Yankeedom and New France, as well as lots of Africans and such. Dump a bunch of Somalis into Vermont, and even the most hard-core liberals don’t like being the victim of vibrancy. Then there is the financial aspect. Not only does massive vibrancy bring person security issues to places that did not have them, and cause mental stress on avoiding crime-think as to the causes, it means radically decreased opportunity for one’s kids as “Public Ivies” turn into say, UCI, when went from nearly all-White enrollment in the 1980’s to about 17% today. And that’s Irvine California.

Now you have the Obama Administration full onto Agenda 21 including massive wealth transfers, and the new HUD policy aimed essentially at Section 8 housing everywhere but Malibu and the Upper East Side. If the economy were constantly rising and people could afford a new house every ten years, no problem. Uh oh.

My view is we will shortly test Roissy’s theory of Diversity + Proximity = War. And also see a rise in White unitary nationalism, i.e. New England Nation, Yankeedom, the Midlands, New Scandinavia etc. will all dissolve into White Nation as most of the White Middle Class is smacked with diversity, pays the price literally and figuratively for vibrancy, and sees the upward ladder not only kicked out but faces downward mobility. Which is the classic definition of pre-Revolutionary conditions.

White rural liberals existed because they did not face defacto ethnic cleansing by non-Whites. That is no longer the case, and the ethnic cleansing comes not in the 1950’s-60’s era of rising income, but declining. Meaning loss of a home to anti-White crime (think 5,000 Somalis dumped in Burlington VT) can’t be mitigated into a nicer house in the suburbs. It means a nasty apartment somewhere else for those cleansed who take a permanent loss. You know what Machiavelli advised regarding this. The traditional ethnic “nations” of America have never before faced such massive, and inescapable non-White stress.

Look at the Upper Piedmont. The inescapable conclusion is that Whites in high-density areas vote “White” (aka non-Liberal) to prevent transfer of resources away from themselves to … Blacks. And resources are not just monetary. Take the attitude towards guns. Non Liberal Whites view guns as a weapon of last resort against murder, torture, robbery, and rape, not necessarily in that order, by non-Whites. This represents real history of Indian, Mexican, and Black attacks, as well as Mixed-Race non-Whites (like say John Murel, the “Land Pirate” whose treasure formed the basis of Tom Sawyer’s treasure, Twain in Life on the Mississippi quotes figures Murel may have murdered over 4,000 men as the leader of his group).

So far, social peace has been purchased by social mobility, and the ability of Whites including Scandinavians and Yankees and such to avoid the impact of mass Non-White presence and defacto privilege. The “Knockout Game” aka Polar Bear Hunting, by Black “teens” and “youths” is now nationwide, fueled by Youtube and WorldStarHipHop dot com, making social attitudes under severe pressure.

John Derbyshire worries about the elites “turning racist.” Far more likely IMHO is a sudden “snap” in attitudes by Scandinavian, Yankee (who are Scandi lite essentially), Midlands, and other peoples. Those not elite and knowing they are not on the elite ladder (no opportunity loss).

Interesting stuff. For what it’s worth, I actually consider many of these issues — including a discussion of Woodard — in my forthcoming book (http://www.taylorandfrancis.com/books/details/9781138017740/). I should note that, while white Americans remain divided politically along ethnic lines, these divisions are shrinking — the political differences between WASPS and other whites are now much smaller than they were as recently as 1970. Whereas the gap between white Americans of British descent and Eastern and Southern European whites was once huge when it comes to party identification, it is smaller today.

Er, Warren Buffett that is…

I have family in both the really blue part of Iowa and the really red part of Nebraska, so this is a bit anecdotal. I’d probably second the notion that Scandinavian ancestry seems to be a factor in how ‘community minded’ someone is. (I’ve joked that you can guess someone’s political party here in Omaha by whether a person’s name ends in “-sen”, but that’s probably not accurate.) It’s hard to say what effect German ancestry might have. Honestly, I’ve never met anyone around here who’s full-blooded German without a bit of Danish or Swede or Scots in them. Everyone’s a mutt around here, many times over. So self-reported ancestry can be a bit tricky. Another complication is that most of the German culture of the Great Plains is Volga German, which is something totally different. The Worst Hard Time has a good bit on how they imported a frontier spirit forged on the Russian steppes onto the American prairie. You know that tumblin’ tumbleweed? That’s Russian thistle, brought by those crafty Germans from Russia. Their sociopolitical orientation was mostly your standard ‘live and let live’ variety, the opposite of the totalitarian mindset that too often finds its place in German intellectual circles. In fact, there’s actually actually a strong pacifist tradition among them, since many Volga Germans were Mennonite conscientious objectors. They were closer to being Amish than being Commies or Nazis. (Though not for lack of Hitler and Stalin trying. But that’s a tangent.)

Anyway, back to the Scandinavian influence. I wonder if Woodard might be underestimating the role that the code of Jante might be playing in Midlands culture. (Its stress on egalitarianism, thoughtfulness, living quietly, helping your neighbor, etc.) for example. At least that’s what I was always told as to why my family does things the way they do. But if that’s true, it’s a kind of mutated strain of Jante, different from the old country. There’s an undeniable and rigid commitment to fairness and equality, but virtually no emphasis on conformity that Staffan referred to. There’s the taboo against showing off, but no real respect for hierarchy, position, or authority.

I dunno. Just my two cents. Ultimately, if you want to try and understand the Midlands, just look at Warren Buffet. There’s probably no one alive who better encapsulates its values, and its bizarre myriad contradictions.

Yes, one might wonder about different Germans in different places. The Germans in Minnesota, ND and SD lean strongly to the right.

A lot of German communists fled Germany during the 19th Century crackdowns and ended up in Wisconsin.

It’s not relaxing to me, in the sense that most people don’t get it and may not be capable of getting it, so they will continue attempting to turn everyone else into them through whatever means they fancy. So much wasted effort, so much pointless argument.

~S

Jayman: “the heritable roots of these differences mean that the divisions among White Americans are largely intractable, and the divides we see will be with us – in one form or another – for a long time to come.”

Somehow I find that relaxing. We can forget about changing other people’s minds.

[…] Rural White Liberals – a Key to Understanding the Political Divide – “there are likely several factors involved in shaping the modern American political landscape. Of which, the strongest may be ethnonational origin. This is buttressed by population density pressure, founder effects, internal self-sorting, and perhaps even recent evolution.” – from jayman. […]

I’m guessing it might be like in Scandinavian countries where the overwhelming majority are liberal, so even when the most liberal leave for the city there is no dramatic change. We don’t have any conservative rednecks.

It might also be a matter of climate. I’m toying with the idea that sun people have evolved a pathogen avoidance along with the conservatism that is so clearly a part of it. Perhaps the climate contributes in a short-term as well in that it might trigger this avoidance. There is a rough correspondence between Big Five conscientiousness and heat index (heat and humidity) in America. I’d love to see some state-level stats on Haidt’s Purity foundation since that would be a more direct measure than conscientiousness, but I haven’t found anything so far.

Swedes are highly conformist, much more so than Norwegians. Many rooted for the Nazis when they looked as if they might win but then abruptly shifted to democratic socialism after the war.

I took a look at the counties in the Dakotas and Minnesota that went either Republican or Democratics in the last few presidential elections.

Counties in the Dakotas that tended to go Democratic in a presidential election were either:
1. Heavily Norwegian
2. Had a large Amerindian population.

Counties in the Dakotas that went Republican tended to have a large German population.

Counties in Minnesota that tended to go Democratic in a presidential election were either:
1. Heavily Norwegian
2. Had a large Amerindian population.
3. Had a very diverse population, particularly in the Twin Cities area, but also places like Deluth.

Counties in Minnesota that went Republican tended to have a large German population.

Surprisingly, in neither place did Swedes make much of a difference.