Women working destroys marriage
The social science backs up common sense and observation concerning the terrible social policy of encouraging women to work outside the home rather than marry and raise children.
The results have been not merely dyscivic and dysgenic, but downright dyscivilizational. And regardless of what you think on the matter, it is clear that a society which encourages widespread female education and employment is not sustainable and is guaranteed to collapse sooner rather than later.
We examine causes and consequences of relative income within households. We show that the distribution of the share of income earned by the wife exhibits a sharp drop to the right of 1/2 , where the wife’s income exceeds the husband’s income. We argue that this pattern is best explained by gender identity norms, which induce an aversion to a situation where the wife earns more than her husband. We present evidence that this aversion also impacts marriage formation, the wife’s labor force participation, the wife’s income conditional on working, marriage satisfaction, likelihood of divorce, and the division of home production. Within marriage markets, when a randomly chosen woman becomes more likely to earn more than a randomly chosen man, marriage rates decline. In couples where the wife’s potential income is likely to exceed the husband’s, the wife is less likely to be in the labor force and earns less than her potential if she does work. In couples where the wife earns more than the husband, the wife spends more time on household chores; moreover, those couples are less satisfied with their marriage and are more likely to divorce. These patterns hold both cross-sectionally and within couples over time.Whatever the theoretical benefits of doubling the percentage of women in the workforce were, the material costs to society have dramatically exceeded them. This is not about women working per se, as one-third of women have always worked, but the change since 1950 is that most young marriage-age women now work so that old men can collect Social Security, watch TV, and play golf instead of working as they always had before.
The results have been not merely dyscivic and dysgenic, but downright dyscivilizational. And regardless of what you think on the matter, it is clear that a society which encourages widespread female education and employment is not sustainable and is guaranteed to collapse sooner rather than later.
119 Comments:
Not to mention that if income is a proxy for intelligence. The smart men are reproducing the women are not:
https://atavisionary.com/career-women-are-dysgenic/
Sharia law >>> feminism
Hypergamy is a hell of a drug
#2 I just finished "Submission" basically a Nietzschean styled fantasy of having a young wife to mate with and to actually have children by.
Not a great piece of literature but memorable as was "Anti-Christ" which is memorable in a comedic way as 99% of Nietzsche is. The one thing the muslim Ben Abbes realizes is is how hollowed out liberalism is while the Right is stuck braying about the omnipotence of the secular world.
"Most young marriage-age women now work so that old men(boomers)can collect Social Security, watch TV, and play golf instead of working as they always had before."
That explains why grandpa boomer wanted the female grandkids to go to college so bad and his Xer daughter to get a j-o-b after sending her there too.
Like most people here, I was raised with egalitarian principles. I don't like these ideas, but the logic seems clear, and apparently the hard evidence is following quickly that higher education and employment for women is a bad idea for society as a whole.
Gamma: “I f***ing love science!”
Nationalist Chad: “Science says women are happiest when barefoot, pregnant, and submissively making sandwiches in the kitchen.”
Gamma: “Rheeeeeeeeeeeeee!”
I always thought dyscivic was short for dyscivilizational. My bad!
Back in the days when most people had their own farms or small businesses, the wife would help her husband with things, and this was normal.
Part of the problem here is the unspoken belief that getting a higher salary equals greater worth as a person.
7. Durandel January 05, 2019 9:35 AM
Gamma: “I f***ing love science!”
Nationalist Chad: “Science says women are happiest when barefoot, pregnant, and submissively making sandwiches in the kitchen.”
Gamma: “Rheeeeeeeeeeeeee!”
An inability to question the egalitarian dogma is quite common on the Left.
Ah, the brilliance of Van Crevald! I haven't yet read "Equality: The Impossible Quest but, being interesed in women in the military and its (literally) fatal flaws, have read his "Pussycats: Why the Rest Keeps Beating the West—and What Can Be Done about It"
This quote off his blog:
http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/once-upon-a-time-we-had-a-little-poodle/
"...
Like all poodles, Poonch was clever and quick on the ball. However, he had a problem. Perhaps being aware of small size, he was afraid of large dogs. Being afraid of large dogs, he regularly barked at them and sometimes attacked them. As a result he got what you would expect and what, in fact, he deserved. Twice he was almost bitten to death. But he seemed never to learn.
...
And why am I telling you about this? Because it reminds me of the foolishness of some feminists. By all means get furious at me, but let me explain first. Nature has made men considerably stronger, physically, than women. Thanks in part to the military, which in its attempts to understand what women can and cannot do in its ranks has been studying the issue for decades, the details have been worked out quite precisely. But is such study really necessary? There are some things that the dumbest person on earth knows, or at any rate should know, without ever having attended school.
...
As Poonch’s injuries showed, the combination of superior physical strength with the feeling that one is under attack is as dangerous as dangerous can be. Not just any psychologist but any ten-year old can tell you that. Unfortunately, I fear, the outcome will be that more and more women are going to get killed by men. Especially men whom they know and who may very well have loved them at one point or another.
...
@7 "Science says women are happiest when barefoot, pregnant, and submissively making sandwiches in the kitchen."
It's not submissively! (It's joyfully, gladly, gratefully!)
When my beloved husband would mow (here, in the 95% humidity and 95 degrees), after every half hour or so, I would come out with ice water and paper towels for him to wipe the sweat off his face. Our neighbor's teen boy was out one day doing the same (suffering the same) and was a 'sore amazed' when I showed up.
(He asked Michael:) "Wow! How do you get her to DO that?!"
(Me:) He doesn't "get" me to do it. I do it gladly because he takes such good care of me -- including mowing our lawn -- so I am happy to 'give back' (in the small ways he lets me) for his care! If YOU take good care of your future wife, she, too, maybe grateful and wish to support you in you care of her." (Hated to offer him too much hope with a 'modern' woman but...)
Reminds me of Owen Benjamin's mother who, when he asked why she stayed married to his 'insane dad', replied: "I can't shovel the driveway myself!"
"Sharia law >>> feminism"
You realize that pedophilia and beastiality are legal under Sharia law? Sick fuck.
My mother was born in 1934. She married young and had her first kid at 18.
She worked and claimed that inflation meant that many women had to work. I don't know if that is true or not; but many women I work with claim they have to work but would rather be a stay at home mom.
I can recall being married in the mid '70s and as a young poor couple we faced major inflation and gas prices going up by a factor of 4.
I have also paid into Social Security since 1967 and still do. Make SS "need based". I know a guy who was worth several million and still took SS because he could. He did not need it at all.
The trouble with most of this is that when the Damned Federal Government meddles, they always make it worse. Always. Always. Always.
Van Crevald, later in the blog (REALLY interesting blog, no surprise!), where he writes:
http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/plus-ca-change/
"...
I quote.
L. 38. "It is a great problem for men to decide whether it is more advantageous to allow women their freedom, or to deprive them of it. It seems to me that there is a great deal to be said both for and against. If the Europeans say that it is ungenerous to make those we love unhappy, our Asians retort that it is ignoble for men to renounce the authority (empire) that nature gave them over women. If they are told that having a large number of women shut in will cause difficulties, they reply that ten women who obey cause less difficulty than one who does not."
...
@13 Yep, and it's still better than feminism.
And what will be the consequences of "Women now control America’s military-industrial complex"?
On the upside, when civilization does collapse, it'll be the end of both wonens' suffrage and the old boomers and their "entitlements".
#13 Amen. Everybody forgets that about Islam. They are the sick puppies of the world.
Nothing good comes of women expecting or being expected to work. Before women worked, if they wanted to or if they could, but it was expected that the men worked, while the women looked after the house/children, with the rest of the women in the family. It isn't just about marriage, but the House societal structure.
I have noticed some things in my life.
One is that human nature does not change. That was why building the "New Soviet Man" was doomed from the get-go. It is why those young guys today are whistling Dixie if they think they are all that different.
Another observation is that people love a scapegoat. One ring to rule ... ah, I mean, one bad group to blame for everything.
Another is that seemingly smart guys think that if they get their people in office things will be so much better. Been trying that for over 200 years and we are much worse off now than in the beginning.
I have noticed that we need to ditch "democracy" or whatever you call the USA Federal Government. It is evil and getting more evil by the decade. Hell, more evil by the day.
An inability to question the egalitarian dogma is quite common on the Left.
And among conservatives, though I guess we could quibble about whether they're on the left or right these days. But I know plenty of men who consider themselves traditional and conservative and want their daughters to get married and be stay-at-home moms, but they want them to go to college and get a good degree and a start on a career first, just in case. They're afraid their daughters will get bad husbands who abandon them or fail to provide for the family, so they want Princess to be able to support herself. If you point out that they've raised their daughters to have good judgment, and that they're there to provide good advice, they still say, "Yeah, but what if." They don't want her to take any risk of being stuck in a bad marriage.
Sometimes they toss in the "she needs an education so she can homeschool the kids" justification too.
Well there is this positive development in Ireland!
https://news.yahoo.com/emotional-psychological-abuse-now-crimes-163247447.html
What the hell happened over there??? Next they'll outlaw Guinness.
Nikephoros II Phokas wrote:"Sharia law >>> feminism"
You realize that pedophilia and beastiality are legal under Sharia law? Sick fuck.
Femenism is pushing closer and closer to legalizing both. Islam is satanic. So is feminism.
It's all by design. To wit:
"Feminism is the theory;
Lesbianism is the practice."
@22 sounds like my parents too. Conservative, Christian parents who want their daughters to go to college and start a career before getting married are not thinking practically. If they oppose premarital sex then they should encourage their daughters to marry a good man first and foremost as a career goal. Instead they discourage marriage at 19 or 20 as too young. That amounts to sabotaging their Christian children. It is incredibly unrealistic to expect young people to remain virgins until marriage in their mid to late 20s, especially in our current society. Its good for women to have some sort of back up earning ability but not to the extent that it competes with their true prime directive of marrying well and having children.
it is clear that a society which encourages widespread female education and employment is not sustainable
I question the dialectical and rhetorical aspects of this. Perhaps they cancel out.
Dialectically, "education" has little or nothing to do with college, which is the biggest problem. Obviously high school is terribly flawed, but young ladies need somewhere to gather and practice their social combat in a controlled environment. If you only consider knowledge, I see no reason why women should acquire less knowledge than men; it should simply be in different subjects, and concurrent with them doing something actually valuable with their lives. Their is quite a bit of intellectual and artistic work that is best done by hobbyists, and that accords well with the needs of the small percent of women who are fit to do it.
Rhetorically, if you attack female "education," most people associate that with keeping a bunch of acid-scarred sister wives locked up on your compound, unable to read or write. On the other hand,it works when you have made some progress breaking down the myth of modern university.
"The smart men are reproducing the women are not"
The problem is that a great portion of intelligence comes from the X chromosome (as I understand). So while an intelligent man and a stupid woman can have smart daughters, they most likely will have stupid sons. Bring on the Idiocracy.
Avalanche, submission is not a four letter word. The feminists used wizardry to get most in the West to think submission = chattel slavery.
But submission is an act a person willingly does. Enslavement is what is imposed on a person. As Christians, we submit to Christ, we are not enslaved by Him.
I wonder if we could separate the impact of college debt from the effect of attending college on women’s marital prospects, dicorce rate and partner rate. Because another problem is not just the late marriages, cock carousel, divorce, abortion, etc but also small families, delayed family formation, and high labor motility preventing community development due to college debt and credit card debt.
@13 needs to learn a bit about the glorification of female pedos within feminism. Start with the Vagina Monolog’s description of “a good rape.”
You have to hand it to the demons that make up the rules of the game. Encourage women to hate men, either abort their children or not have them at all, despise their own race and country, and gleefully welcome a foreign invasion. That is the college "education" that awaits them.
@29 It's just a meme but saying someone is barefoot and performing a specific act submissively is not the same as saying someone submitted in a relationship as a whole. And that meme is often spouted by classless trash so its associations will be immediately negative.
Women in the workplace destroys families and workplaces.
I am surprised that a researcher actually went so far as to literally define "gender identity norms" as female hypergamy. They're usually not that honest.
Islam vs. Feminism
Would you like your shit sandwich with a side of french fries or onion rings?
@36 Believe me, I am no fan of Islam. But Islamic societies have a sufficiently long history that we can see that it is a system that can actually sustain a people (under horrible conditions). Feminism has no such track record, and the smart money is on no, feminism cannot sustain a society in a similar fashion. Thus, on a purely pragmatic level, Islam is greatly superior to feminism.
Women couldn't be taxed for being mothers. Hence, the push to get all of them into the labor force. It's never been about equality. Those that wanted to were already working.
@22 Then those parents, especially the fathers, should be networking with other families sharing the same values and vetting potential spouses for their daughters, at an early age -- when they are in their teens at least, instead of putting their daughters at risk of the cock carousel.
@37 I do not disagree, Zaklog.
At least Muslims, in theory anyway, acknowledge SOME limits to their actions, per the Koran, etc.
I'll take that over the Feminist holy book, "What My Vagina Tells Me!". What are those limits? Heh.
But I still prefer a hamburger to a shit sandwich.
@22 papabear, Yes, they should, and I know some who are doing those things. But they still worry, "What if she picks a guy from a good family and we think he's good and five years later he turns into a deadbeat?" They've been breathing the feminist air for so long that they assume most men are losers and they don't trust their ability to pick a solid one. So they want her to have that backup of her own career and income options. They may try to send her to a good Christian college, but they're still starting her down that career-first path, and they're generally pretty naive about what she's going to run into at that "good" college.
I had the displeasure of having to meet some people at an 'Irish Pub' last night -- there were Banger and Mash Tacos on the menu, ergo the inverted commas -- predictably having to listen to the group of 20- and 30-something Woo Hoo whores next to our party babble inanely about their utterly meaningless jobs. Couple of 9's in the gaggle, few 8's, several 7's, and then there was Debbie. I digress.
At some point I thought to myself, "the best any of these bitches can hope for is to one day find it remarkable that they once brought their husband a glass of water."
True Story.
Young men, listen to me very carefully: Find 'em. F*uck 'em. FLEE. This shit's not getting any better until the whole thing is reset. There might be -- maybe -- one in a million women that understand anything at all, let alone what's happening. The odds of you finding her are not in your favor and if you do, it will almost certainly be on accident.
In the meanwhile, someone has to make the white babies these cows are otherwise putting on the back burner for their careers in data entry.
Men are also known to earn more when married than while single. I expect that to be particularly true if they're happily married.
Men are being pushed by the modern globohomo culture into being shiftless, Gamma drifters and incels who have no hope of attracting a woman they like.
@42 Cooler
The over/under on the number of times the Woo Hoo attention whores either shrieked loudly with no warning (Fanfare for the Common Attention Whore) or you heard "Ohhh Myyyyy Gooooooood!" is set at 100.
I'm betting over.
Gods of the copy book headings
@Argus Bacchus
I'm still not convinced that Islamic societies aren't the closest thing to hell on earth, with the exception of the more extreme communist dictatorships.
Tucker covered this same topic the past few nights. Absolutely called out the statistical fact that when women earn more than men marriage rates drop. And that it is important for a healthy society to ensure men get jobs with good pay, so that families and marriages remain strong.
Then he showed a cut from the gagglefest of hens on The View, who were utterly incapable of understanding this fact about THEIR OWN NATURE.
I thought Harambe, er, I mean, Whoopi was going to fling poo, she looked so cross and bewildered.
I guess I have to explain the obvious to the autistic morons posting here.
The point was not, "Sharia law is great!" The point was, at least with Islam you can at least keep a functioning society going for more than a few generations before it collapses in on itself. Say what you will about the evils of sharia law, but at least it produces a next generation. Which is more than you can say for feminism.
Now, back to the sperg fest.
@46
Fair enough.
We have seen examples of how hellish Islam can be.
We are just beginning, however, to see how hellish Modern Feminism will be.
Leftists better hold on tightly to their pussy hats. They might not like where the ride stops.
The problem is that a great portion of intelligence comes from the X chromosome (as I understand). So while an intelligent man and a stupid woman can have smart daughters, they most likely will have stupid sons. Bring on the Idiocracy.
A good chunk of intelligence genes are X-chromosome recessives, which means that men are more likely to be at the extremes and women to cluster about the average -- which is what we see in reality.
It's a mechanism for women to be able to pass along high IQ without expressing it themselves, something that's going to be stringently selected for should current circumstances continue. The intelligent man may not be able to father smart sons on his own, but his grandsons by his daughters might.
@42 No. It may be risky. It may be a long search, but we don't need a bunch of white fatherless bastards. We need properly raised sons who know how to be men. Your plan is just further societal destruction. If you're not man enough for it, do us all a favor and get your balls cut off.
>>Say what you will about the evils of sharia law, but at least it produces a next generation.
Sharia law sucks. But it is viable, and it is hubris for us to think that it can't win out. The other doctrine that comes to mind that may well win out is thinking of oneself as a member of a race. Thus the desire to keep the race going.
Way, way, way back when, the Rockford Institute (The Family in America) published data indicating that the EEO women-in-the-workforce effects included massive inflation in the cost of housing. That's another of the dis-civilizational effects, aside from the far more important one: the loss of children to support us old farts in our golfing retirement.
I can hear the shrieks from the femi-nazis already....
...but they want them to go to college and get a good degree and a start on a career first...
College has become a twisted sort of finishing school, expected for a woman to be accepted into fashionable society. Also, the entry-level office jobs it's the gateway to are where the eligible bachelors are most often found.
All that's in the process of collapsing of course, but it's always hard to swim against the tide, which is why only a few fathers are able to do it. And during the death rattle of dominant social institutions the tide gets stronger as those invested in the institution pull out all the stops to save their position.
Women have always worked. What they seldom did or tried to do is work with men in the same workplace. Nearly all women worked in the home, caring for children, preparing food, and making a house a home. What they did not do was work alongside men, other than their husband.
Schools and colleges in the past were either for women or for men and any school that had both were called co-educational. The military has always been a place for men. Until fairly recently, the only women in the military were "auxiliaries" specifically for women in supporting roles, away from combat situations. In modern warfare, it is more difficult to find a safe place where women can perform these supporting roles. Even the "Hello Girls" of WWI occasionally were subject to German artillery attacks. They performed a vital role to American forces in Europe during the war. Many of them were recruited because they could speak French....a handy thing in France.
I can remember when the workplace was entirely men. There were the occasional secretary or clerk, but otherwise it was men and nearly all of those men were married and had children. These days, I read that only 15 percent of the young men (18-35) are married, so the argument that women are working to supplement the family income seems to fall flat.
Vox is entirely correct. The present state of affairs is unsustainable.
"Say what you will about the evils of sharia law, but at least it produces a next generation."
Quite correct. Islamic societies still produce children, although with cousin marriage being an endemic feature they tend to produce dumber children.
At a basic level, the left-liberal approach to societies is an evolutionary dead end. Reproductive rates crash for the native population, who are gradually replaced by people from non-liberal cultures. It's like watching two trains approach each other on the same track, since you know that there is going to be a calamity.
Well, WHITE Sharia would be better than feminism. The 3rd world kind, not so much.
RE: "The results have been not merely dyscivic and dysgenic, but downright dyscivilizational."
Would the problems be avoided if everyone had exponentially more money to spend?
@51 lol You can stuff your moral superiority fantasy smooth up your ass, bud, because I've seen the future net result of your gynocomastic, chastity-via-impotence philosophy. And it is swarthy.
Found a Youtube channel, Way of the World. 10 minute video blogs.
Mostly about nationalism but here is one about women.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUJ4bSI5LGysuouybbGA7g
How Women Weaken Nations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig2SgfVLigQ
OT but inspirational poem then discussion. The second poem was new to me.
Rudyard Kipling's Advice for Nationalists
If
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R81Gyms2zKM
The Beginnings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NskBM0fCUA
"Say what you will about the evils of sharia law, but at least it produces a next generation"
@VFM #7191
In the same sense orc hordes and zombie apocalypses do. In some ways, Islam is arguably far worse than societies that fail to reproduce.
One of the biggest blows to Western Civilization was when The Evil One, using "feminists" convinced women that they wanted to be admired just as men are admired.
Women are the only ones who can produce human life, nurture it, civilize her man and her decendents, and help men and children see God better. This was the role given by God to women. This is the role that deserves great admiration.
The big lie that women are "like men" must be overcome if Western Civilization is to survive. I don't think it too far over the top to say that women are to bring life while a man's role is often to bring death and destruction.
That women civilize men is one of the more bizarre Boomer fantasies. Women did not, do not, and never will civilize men. Men civilize women and it is our failure to do so for the last 70 years that has led to this broken caricature of Woman that we have today.
@29 'But submission is an act a person willingly does. Enslavement is what is imposed on a person. As Christians, we submit to Christ, we are not enslaved by Him."
That is certainly one definition. However, when two men fight, and one decides giving up is preferable to being broken, he "submits." One cannot (I ... submit) ignore the 'baggage' that travels with words. Sorry (really, truly sorry; I was an editor by trade!) that that means that some words lose their accurate meaning(s) and usefulness in society. That is the joy and horror of language.
And a submissive woman in her kitchen 'serving' men/her man is a (very bad 'definitional,' which is not a word!) baggage that has been attached to that word. When Michael was courting me (by email; across the continent) (yes, courting: he was a very traditional man), I struggled long and hard with both my DESIRE to submit to him, and my fear and horror (I've mentioned I was a staunch feminist, yes?) OF submitting to any man (TOO many men I'd known were not WORTHY of such 'submission' as you write of! "Burn me 3-4 times, shame on me!")
In the modern day, 'submitting' to a man has unfortunate aspects of chattel slavery... and all our desire to clean the word of those trappings avail naught.
The double-edged sword is: IF these good Christian girls marry without a (previously prepared) career option for "if" and then "if" happens; they are SoL!! When there was harsh social 'punishment' for a man leaving his wife and kids, then there was less 'grass if greener' destruction. Nowadays, there's even a term for in it the younger gens: a "starter marriage." That's the marriage you enter into in your early 20s, thinking you will figure out how to do it while doing it -- but probably having NEVER SEEN a solid successful marriage that lasted!
And IF "if" happens? Either cause he leaves or dies -- what of her (and any kids)? There is NO social safety net that any good middle-class or working-class White / Western Christian girl can 'fall back on.' If you're not black or hispanic, popping out -- squatting out, as Big Gay Steve calls it -- litters of brats you cannot afford; then you're NOT going to be getting much help from the social safety net the middle-and working-class White Christians are paying all those taxes for! And you're not getting much help from the churchians who'd rather pay to bring in Squatemala and her brood.
'Hedging your bets' in today's pathological society is NOT gambling: it's preparation. You lay in food and water against a hurricane? What does a young woman lay in to protect against the loss of her protector? Does filling your basement with survival supplies mean you don't get a man cave down there? Does that girl going to college and starting a "career" that can SUPPORT HER, and maybe some kids if needed, mean she's not going to be cast adrift if it happens?
What's hedging and what's a careless lack of preparation for a possible disaster -- and how do you advise your baby girl what to do for either?
Also, the entry-level office jobs it's the gateway to are where the eligible bachelors are most often found.
It wouldn't be so bad if they used that opportunity to get their Mrs. degree as their grandmothers did, quickly marrying one of those bachelors and checking out of the workplace. Instead they just bang the bachelors while treading water for a decade or so.
lol You can stuff your moral superiority fantasy smooth up your ass, bud, because I've seen the future net result of your gynocomastic, chastity-via-impotence philosophy. And it is swarthy.
And the Gamma self-identifies.
Look, obviously you are smart enough to see the problems, at least the surface level ones. You're right that it's men who civilize women and not the other way around. So why do you not only run away from your duty, but spit at the men who are doing it?
Are you proud of being like that?
@42 There might be -- maybe -- one in a million women that understand anything at all, let alone what's happening.
hmmm, so, we hear from the MGTOW or the PUA... And yet, literally thousands, maybe a million or more, perfectly FINE marriages are made in this country alone... You know, I often point out that there was SOME reason the jews were kicked out of, what's it, 104 nations in their history? And it's NOT 'native' anti-semitism!
If every attempt you've made has resulted in 'some bitch' -- maybe look at the common denominator across relationships?!
Contrary (well, slightly contrary?) to Owen's very funny "they're ALL crazy! Don't dump a good one to go looking for a not-so-crazy one: you're not going to find one! Find a good one and put a ring on it!" there ARE 'perfectly serviceable' (without the baggage that word usually implies...) women to marry -- IF you realize, you'll have to work a good bit to unbrainwash them! AND to figure out how you -- as a reasonable man -- can live with a semi-crazy partner. (It's not really crazy; we're driven by very fundamentally different 'drives and end goals' that are innate, built-in...)
I could never have imagined -- I DID never imagine -- a man who was comfortable with negotiating with a crazy woman. (He called it "taming his feral female"; and he was right.)
Alison Armstrong has a bit where she discusses going to a "relationship seminar" (in her 20s?) with an equally unsuccessful-in-dating girlfriend. The man was answering audience questions, and her friend, rather hostilely, asked: "why is it a man starts out as a prince! Spending time and attention, buying flowers and taking me on lovely dates... and yet, over time, turns into a beer-belching,sports-watching couch potato?"
The lecturer came over and looked her over closely and said: "Oh, I see. You're a FROG farmer! You takes princes and turn them into frogs."
Alison's friend was offended and annoyed -- but Alison was amazed and filled with hope. Maybe it was NOT that "all men were jerks" -- maybe THEY were responding to how SHE was treating them... and thus began 25+years of investigating.
Her stuff is pretty brilliant (painfully expensive... so if you're interested, try to pick it up second hand!) But her book "Keys to the Kingdom" (not overtly religious, but Christians will find nothing uncomfortable) is brilliant! Teaches many of her ideas and learnings in a lightly humorous 'fictional' story. I recommend it for men and women -- it's a good demonstration for either.
It's not even the opening of opportunities, some of which is simply ridiculous because women either cannot compete with men in the arena offered without cheats or disable men's ability to perform optimally by women's activity in a particular workforce (think military in general, but certainly combat military), but it's the evil shaming of the women who, if allowed without societal pressure otherwise, would choose to either be only homemakers or to work from home or with their family instead of seeking "individual" satisfaction (which is really only satisfying fellow women's wrongheaded ideals.
@68 You should stop typing.
@58 " WHITE Sharia would be better than feminism. The 3rd world kind, not so much."
Yeah, I've kinda accepted that as a concept. Yes, the world IS unfair to smart women (it's also unfair to dumb women, and smart and dumb men) The problem is, smart women can imagine a world "more fair" -- and think it can be achieved.
I think it's kinda like libertarians -- who actually seem to believe it "could be achievable" -- if only everyone would sign on... They completely ignore (no doubt due to their protected White, Euro/Christendom-derived upbringing) that the vast vast majority of human are stupid and violent. Across the planet, and more and more in Christendom... The basement IQ level needed to even contemplate, much less try to achieve, a libertarian state was probably never even achievable in 95% White America, much less in any other nation.
Women, the smart ones, the middle- and upper-class ones, cannot IMAGINE the stupid ones not 'getting it.' They cannot imagine that men are physically stronger than they are, because men have usually withheld their strength unless pushed too far.
Even today: watching antifa bitches poke tigers is amazing to me! I know that, generally, the men on the Right WILL withhold their strength -- even from the many of the soyboys -- so most women don't get it! Not suggesting men start hitting women, but wish there were a way to teach our wimpy, idiot, protected liberal women about reality.
I think I would be unhappy in a White Sharia world (although I imagine that, AS a smart woman, I could imagine (help imagine?) a version that would be possibly tolerable -- just like all those 'they never did communism right" idiots... (sigh)
I thought Harambe, er, I mean, Whoopi was going to fling poo
Are you nuts bro, insulting Harambe that way!? After all...., nobody in his right mind would ever get his d1ck out for Whoopie.
@64 "The big lie that women are "like men" must be overcome"
Would you be surprised to discover many women WISH to be awakened from that lie? I described my 'dating/marrying advice list' as 'saving women from the ravages of feminism, one woman at a time."
Mostly 30-somethings, who had found that what they'd been raised with was unsuccessful and unsatisfying. They WANTED marriage and children, but couldn't find the path to get there! (Self-selected audience, to be sure, but they ARE out there!) And they were piteously grateful because I was a bit of a hardass about 'chastity till the man puts the ring on it' and here's how to negotiate boundaries *gracefully*, rather than viciously as 'society' had taught them.
"Every man has the RIGHT to ask for casual sex. Every woman has the right (and I say the duty!) to refuse. But you do not have the right to slap him down for asking. You must learn, and practice, how to say no gracefully and kindly -- and then stick to it!" (Things *I* was never taught, nor were they!)
Were they young virgins? No, mostly not, most 30-yr-olds today have no idea that there is even a possibility of that! But, once they were taught how to "draw and observe boundaries" GRACEFULLY, and with respect for ALL men, in all interactions, they discovered their lives, and their dating lives esp., got much better. And yes, several of them got married. (I had to drop the list when Michael died; I had no more time to spare.)
(Many, not all) Women ARE recoverable. It's not easy (for either men or women), but it's probably necessary.
G.K. Chesterton talked about some of this almost a hundred years ago now.
For the Creche
Harambe left us a while ago now, but he will never be forgotten.
RIP
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That's one punchable face ya got there, Zaglog.
If every attempt you've made has resulted in 'some bitch' -- maybe look at the common denominator across relationships?!
I don't know if this is the colloquial 'You' you're using, or what, but I am married 24 years, this year, and have 9 children.
Your problem -- and I suspect Jack's problem -- is that neither of you are anywhere near as smart as you think you are.
It wouldn't be so bad if they used that opportunity to get their Mrs. degree as their grandmothers did, quickly marrying one of those bachelors and checking out of the workplace. Instead they just bang the bachelors while treading water for a decade or so.
Nothing is really steady-state. As soon as the Mrs degree became a thing, the degradation started. With a handful of women in the workplace, and occupying support roles (e.g. secretary), it was still a man's place where the women behaved like guests. But once more and more of them came through the doors, and especially after the government started giving them a privileged existence there, it changed. It became a women's place with all the dysfunction associated with that.
Ohhhhh, the Gamma doubles down. What a surprise.
Does your secret kingdom have a cool name? Or is it just another province of Incellia?
I thought Vox Day didn't believe in the reliability of science.
Ironically, I've known a number of Asian women who cannot stand being friends with "Western" women who shame them for wanting to remain home and raise a family.
One Korean women I was speaking to, who has 5 kids - she outright hates Western women as she's been shamed on all levels. But also she notes how self-centred and selfish many are
In Japan it's still culturally accepted / expected for women to retire at 30 and begin duties as a house wife. Which include running all finances.
@78 The person reduced to utterly impotent threats of physical violence is slighting the intelligence of his interlocutors. You have zero sense of irony there, eh?
@74 Avalanche
"Would you be surprised to discover many women WISH to be awakened from that lie? I described my 'dating/marrying advice list' as 'saving women from the ravages of feminism, one woman at a time."
I was very lucky as a lad. I spent endless time talking to my grandmothers, great grandmothers, and two of my great aunts. Women from East Tn. and North Carolina. Strong women.
Some here think men should push their women around but I saw the men in my family "leading" the women while the women helped them just as the bible tells us is their role. My mother's mother may have been one of the happiest women I ever met. My wife has always said she was the glue that held together our vast family. She was Norman Rockwell perfect. Married Grandfather at 15. Mother born when she was 16. Then the 3 boys. Not a boomer in the bunch though the youngest was one year shy of being a horrible boomer.
With that out of the way --- those women civilized their boys and with the help of the dads --- real men were made. God gave the women a job and the ones in my family took that job with pride.
The love and bonding of the children with their mothers was magnificent. I pity those who never had that. It went back for generations if my great grandmothers were telling the truth.
All of that to say to you --- tell the girls that real, honest, and deep admiration a women desires comes from the love of the child for his mother.
Avalanche, a child needs both mom and dad. Both have god given roles to play. The child, no matter the sex, needs both. The women for generations before me in my family were God-fearing Baptists who believed in doing God's will. They loved us kids and we knew we were loved. And they were happy women.
@81. Been drinking and so feel charitible towards my fellow man...
Read Mr. Vox's very first sentence of the post once more. Note the part about what "backs up" what. Now, up there in the top left of the screen...type "reproducible".
If honestly questioning/searching, come back later. More reading still in your future.
If being a jag-off (as suspected), tell us about your awesome life of slapping down prestigious dudes you just met at this awesome party and then banging their babes and how you TOTALLY DESTROYED Vox with your offhand comment that drips with logic.
Additionally, this goes with something I am trying to find numbers for. It seems like the frontier is opening back up again in rural areas. More men than women typically out in frontier areas. Less certainty with respect to finances, perceived danger (actually backwards, but to many of the snowflakes, safety in numbers. The frontier is where evil Red people live!), generally more comfortable life will all of its baubles and distractions.
Seems in the rural areas there is an ever-growing number of men of marrying age, and less and less women. Skew leading towards greater collapse of marriage as one is unable to find the other? Need to plot census data by county...evacuation of Roman countryside at the tail end? Differing reasons, but does the pattern hold?
@37
"Believe me, I am no fan of Islam. But Islamic societies have a sufficiently long history that we can see that it is a system that can actually sustain a people (under horrible conditions). Feminism has no such track record, and the smart money is on no, feminism cannot sustain a society in a similar fashion. Thus, on a purely pragmatic level, Islam is greatly superior to feminism."
Matriarchy = Sub-saharan Africa.
Women usually have at least one child before marrying some other guy than the father(s) of those child(ren).
@69 "hmmm, so, we hear from the MGTOW or the PUA... And yet, literally thousands "
Wonderful shaming language there, very feminist! While his number one in a million is comically exaggerated the idea he is making is sound.
Modern wahmen know fuck all about anything. They are kept purposefully stupid with iPhag addictions, insta-gram whoring, etc. etc.
So you are searching for a proverbial needle in a haystack. And your comment about deprogramming and reversing her 'conditioning' is valid. You WILL have to do that in most cases. But here is a thought for you? Why the --fuck-- should I have to?
If you are a non-spergy normal guy why must you take on a 'project' to simply want what was easily achieved during the bad ol' patriarchy days? You are speaking from a position as an out of touch boomer chick who has no idea about the absolute chaos that is the situation on the ground for young men attempting to date today.
It is scorched earth out there. The puppet masters have done their long march through institutions and media with terrible purpose and machine like efficiency. To wave this banner of 'bbb...bbbbut there are some good ones left' is myopic at best and disingenous at worst.
Then the white knight brigade here predictably rallies around you. Get thee to Chateau Heartiste if you REALLY want to understand the grim reality.
28. Robert What?
True. But I think the selection pressure is in place to ensure that over the long-term intelligence will get associated with being male
"And your comment about deprogramming and reversing her 'conditioning' is valid. You WILL have to do that in most cases."
Uh no, it won't work (Proverbs 22:6) and you'll have ALOT of difficulty figuring that out over the years. Remember the saying, "When you are 50yo you'll be married to her mom?" Well if her mom was/is a Big Chill watching boomer, yeah you get the picture.
Judeo-"feminism",
brainwashing young women into having careers and fun,
was and is nothing more than an
extremely effective
attack on the white birthrate.
coupled with open borders, (((it))) means
White extinction.
> the hard evidence is following quickly that higher education and employment for women is a bad idea for society as a whole.
Employment (when not necessary) definitely is. The original reason for sending daughters off to school was so the could meet the right class of eligible men. Education so they could teach the children was a nice side benefit. Those are all benefits to civilization.
Education of women for employment, no so much so, unless that's their natural bent.
@66
> The double-edged sword is: IF these good Christian girls marry without a (previously prepared) career option for "if" and then "if" happens; they are SoL!!
Then girls will have to go back to the old ways -- do not even date, let alone marry, the local example of "danger-asshole" or suffer the sure and inevitable outcome. That means listening to the male relatives, who have a MUCH better sense of which other men are untrustworthy and therefore, absolutely unfit for marriage to any woman.
> When there was harsh social 'punishment' for a man leaving his wife and kids, then there was less 'grass if greener' destruction.
That stigma didn't fade until AFTER women started filing for divorce in such numbers that now, 90% of divorces are filed by the woman.
"Frivorce" was never a problem prior to the creation (at the demands of women) "no fault divorce" laws.
> Nowadays, there's even a term for in it the younger gens: a "starter marriage."
A term which I have heard used exclusively by women, not men. No man EVER gets married with the intention of getting divorced later -- especially after the example of 40 years of men getting absolutely raped financially in the family court system, which violates two of our foundational principles of justice --
1: Closed courts and sealed court records in all "family court" cases, so that the public's right to both view (in person) and review the behavior and decisions of of the judges in these courts.
2: a lack of ANY appeals system.
3: "Child support" payments as a strict percentage of income. Just because a man is earning $10,000,000/year does NOT mean that it costs 200x in expenses to raise his child than a the child of a man who earns $50,000/year. The lack of requirements for the custodial parents to keep or submit ANY financial records or payments completes the FACT that child support is just being used as back door alimony. Remember Marcia Clark, the lead prosecutor in the O.J. murder case -- who went to court for an increase in child support from her ex-husband, claiming, "I need a new wardrobe of clothes because the case will be telivised." This was an outright admission that she intended to use every cent of a "child support" increase as a slush fund for HER personal expenses, having absolutely nothing to do with raising a child -- and yet, the judge still granted her an increase in child support.
4: A man's monthly child support assessment will go up if he gets a better-paying job, but NEVER decreases if he loses a good-paying job and has to settle for a less lucrative position. Failure to keep up with the unreasonable expectations has caused many men to spend years of their lives living in a cock-roach infested hotel room before finally committing suicide, or else spending YEARS in prison -- for failing to meet unreasonable demands. See: NO APPEALS PROCESS above.
> That's the marriage you enter into in your early 20s, thinking you will figure out how to do it while doing it -- but probably having NEVER SEEN a solid successful marriage that lasted!
Well, thank you, divorce-happy women. 90% of broken homes are due to the woman walking out of the marriage. Typically, it goes like this:
A) Demands that her husband earn more money
B) Husband spends more time at work to fulfill A
C) "My husband doesn't pay any attention to me -- all he does is work!"
D) Starts cheating on her husband
E) Files for divorce
F) Gets rewarded for HER infidelity with CA$H and PRIZES, including the best car, and the house.
Tell me again how men are the reason for the marriage crisis, which was initiated by Boomer women, perpetuated by GenX women, and now continued by Millenial women.
Avalanche, I agree, surely it’s good for a woman to have “something to fall back” on even if both she and her spouse-to-be are firmly committed to keeping the “D” option off the table, for better or worse, because, for better or worse, sadly sometimes includes death or permanent disability of a great man.
With the low utility-to-cost ratio of a college education these days, that “something to fall back on” might be college tuition re-directed to premiums for good life insurance/health insurance. And even if the woman is brainy enough to be able to translate a college degree into a career that actually makes money, many women are glad they birthed and reared their children to independence first, and THEN got the college education and career.
Being roused in the middle of the night to feed and sing lullabies to an infant is a lot less exhausting—and even more delightful!!! — when a woman is in her vigorous twenties and thirties and early forties, and doesn’t have to show up to the office next morning, professionally dressed, made up and coiffed and wondering how the heck she’s going to compete with the men with only 14 minutes of REM sleep. When menopause comes finally to the stay at home mom, she has a whole fresh new world of college and career to look forward to, if she’s suited to that. She’ll be doing her college studies with a LOT more maturity and sense of what she wants out of life than she had in her late teens.
As for young women never having seen a happy marriage and so not knowing how to make it work...that is a problem, but not an insurmountable one. I wish every kid grew up in a family Dirk Manley described. HOWEVER a couple can make sure they’re in solid community with at least a few families their age and a few seasoned married couples (who are committed to mentor.) Quite often, this setting is a church.
If you are a non-spergy normal guy why must you take on a 'project' to simply want what was easily achieved during the bad ol' patriarchy days?
Because that's what's out there. And you still have it better than generations before, where the chance you had to take to get a family wasn't getting screwed over in court but rather having some barbarian run a spear through your guts or split your head open with an axe.
Your ancestors found enough courage to make that situation work. Welcome to manhood, where to have anything nice you have to take risks. Because as the damn Boomers have shown, handing men whatever they want sure isn't good for civilization.
Yeah, in a church committed to supporting healthy marriages, I’ve seen men and women accepted from broken homes become part of a multigenerational “family” who will model faithfulness the way Dirk Manley’s family did for him.
I am sorry if I bored you’uns with stuff that’s obvious, but I don’t think it’s obvious to the younger ones who despair of ever finding a mate: even if you don’t believe in God, go to church tomorrow and next Sunday and next til you see one with a full nursery ( the room where the babies and musing moms are.) Find the pastor and tell him what you’re after. He’s not going to hook a “heathen” up with any of his believing single parishioners, but if you’re honest about your sense of isolation, he will get you acquainted with people of your sex who can show you what life is like in a community where people are committed to loving God and loving each other. Those two things are the most important, Jesus said. (Who knows, Avalanche...)
"Yeah, in a church committed to supporting healthy marriages, I’ve seen men and women accepted from broken homes become part of a multigenerational “family” who will model faithfulness the way Dirk Manley’s family did for him."
Where is this place? Not the left coast obviously. It sounds like you're describing a unicorn.
Lurker, As I said, you may have to visit a few churches, or asking around your circle of acquaintances, maybe going to the next town over, hopefully no need to go to the next coast over. Start looking at the websites of churches for leads. Once you’ve made a project of finding a community like that, and are actively pursuing that goal, including having honest discussions with pastors who will able to provide leads to more churches, you may be pleasantly surprised with what comes up. Remember, Lurker, I’m not suggesting people go to church to find mates PRIMARILY. I’m steering them to find their niche in communities where people love God and love each other: Jesus’ priorities and the foundation of western civilization...of ALL happy civilizations. If you’re bothering to look for a place like that at all, you’re also bothering to open yourself up to the possibility that there is a God waiting for you to lead you there, winding, though not necessarily winding, as the path may be.
Hey! It’s Epiphany Sunday! What a propitious day to start following a ⭐️ star.
Women simply did not evolve to build systems or solve problems, which makes them ill suited to any meaningful work. The highly intelligent struggle to communicate with idiots, which is probably why women stop developing and maturing intellectually at a young age, so they can communicate with and relate to children. It's like racing chihuahuas instead of greyhounds.
Because that's what's out there. And you still have it better than generations before, where the chance you had to take to get a family wasn't getting screwed over in court but rather having some barbarian run a spear through your guts or split your head open with an axe.
You should check out how many suicides are a result of a divorce rape by a corrupt court system. Many of those guys would much rather have been run through by a barbarian.
"You should check out how many suicides are a result of a divorce rape by a corrupt court system. Many of those guys would much rather have been run through by a barbarian."
If that had happened to me, I would have killed the judge first, and then her lawyer. It I was still alive, her and all her family.
Or maybe just kill judges and lawyers involved in "family law".
It is time to seek revenge before you go. Don't just kill yourself.
"Because that's what's out there. And you still have it better than generations before..."
Not a good example. There are many metrics showing major decline in the US starting around the 1970s. Wages haven't risen since the 1970's, Roe v Wade, CPS was also started in the 1970s, No fault divorce, Fatherlessness/single mothers, increasing incarceration of males etc... ad infinitum. Yeah not exactly better.
theartistformerlyknownasgeorge wrote:it's the evil shaming of the women who, if allowed without societal pressure otherwise, would choose to either be only homemakers or to work from home or with their family instead of seeking "individual" satisfaction (which is really only satisfying fellow women's wrongheaded ideals.
Yes. My wife of 33 yrs struggled with this through her 20s-30s, in the 80s-90s, and it was very hard at times; And that was in the military environment (USAF).
And it worked on her head quite a bit. Made her (and thus my) life quite a bit harder, for sure.
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@103
"It is time to seek revenge before you go. Don't just kill yourself. "
Yes.
Anyone who commits suicide over such a thing, without making it MURDER-suicide (or better yet, assassination-suicide) is really doing it wrong.
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Not a good example. There are many metrics showing major decline in the US starting around the 1970s.
Yes, I know. You want things to be as easy for you as they were for the Boomers.
Well, they aren't. But they're still better than they were throughout most of history and the rest of the world. So you can bitch and moan and - like a woman - demand someone solve the problem for you, or you can be a man and go try to solve it yourself.
I'm not belittling the obstacles any man faces in doing that. I'm not saying there aren't serious risks. I'm saying that the natural order of the world is that men have to take risks to have nice things. Women can have nice things by looking pretty, being fertile, and having a nice personality. Men need to work harder and take risks.
You're not a woman, and that means nobody is going to fix the world for you. So either get your ass out there and take some risks, or put on a dress and call yourself Caitlyn.
This puts me in mind that years ago, I was on the phone with my pregnant wife when a young female coworker walked into the room. To humorouly irk the coworker I immediately asked my wife "Sue, are you in the kitchen, are you barefoot?" This drew a deliciously sour face from my liberal cohort, as she knew that my wife was quite pregnant. Oh for the good old days when a politically incorrect joke could be shared between a liberal and a conservative!
Ohhhhh, the Gamma doubles down. What a surprise.
Vox has inadvertently created a handful of "Ur a Gamma" monsters that are incapable of doing anything other than licking and fumbling with the concept. As I said, you really should stop typing, because you're that guy.
The person reduced to utterly impotent threats of physical violence is slighting the intelligence of his interlocutors. You have zero sense of irony there, eh?
I did not threaten you, you dorky tool. You simply have a punchable face. And you shouldn't be doing videos, not because you have a punchable face -- which you do -- but because you have zero gravitas and even less presence.
So you are searching for a proverbial needle in a haystack.
This is the crux of it, in many ways.
The most ironic consequence of feminism is that it has rendered most Western women worthless in the male mind, aside from there sex.
This is setting aside the fact that the New Warrior Caste must begin preparing for the inevitable, and they must do it now. These men should be unfettered by marriage, yet having their androgen machine humming along in a way only sex can provide.
Enjoy yourselves, guys. You didn't make the new rules. You will, however, make the next major set of them.
*their
"This is setting aside the fact that the New Warrior Caste must begin preparing for the inevitable, and they must do it now. These men should be unfettered by marriage, yet having their androgen machine humming along in a way only sex can provide."
Could you possibly be more delusional and pretentious?
Yup, and the dames are one step ahead of the New Warrior Class anyway.
Could you possibly be more delusional and pretentious?
You'll be alright.
"You're not a woman, and that means nobody is going to fix the world for you. So either get your ass out there and take some risks, or put on a dress and call yourself Caitlyn."
Whatever Jack grow up. Your triggered petulant response was entirely predictable for around here.
Whatever Jack grow up. Your triggered petulant response was entirely predictable for around here.
I'm not triggered. I'm disgusted.
"I'm not triggered. I'm disgusted."
Whaaaaaaa!
I'm not triggered. I'm disgusted.
I'm sure you are.
No worries, Jack. 2, 4, 6 -- whatever the case may be -- months into the hot war, when Chad Shitlord and his Merry Band of Fun Lovin' Criminals comes a 'knockin, he's not likely to require your woman. What Chad will require is your fealty. And you are going to give it to him.
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