Stalin knew Hitler would eventually invade
…
For several hours as reports came in of Nazis crossing the border, Stalin refused to believe it was real

He shouldn’t have been surprized then.

There are several posters … who post comments defending Hitler’s invasion of USSR.

Do you defend America’s invasion of USSR?

American Intervention in Northern Russia,
1918-1919

American Expeditionary Forces in Siberia, Russia | 1918-1920 | US Army Documentary

Poland was invited to join the Anti-Comintern Pact, but they turned it down.

” Being qualified doesn’t mean a thing”

Okay so if being qualified, meaning endowed with the required IQ level “doesn’t mean a thing, then just why do they not admit people with lower than the required IQs to their society?

Therefore being qualified for Mensa with a tested IQ above 150 points is not what counts, rather being a member is of prime importance.

With this kind of screwy logic you profoundly reveal that you would never become “qualified” therefore.

Authenticjazzman ” Mensa” qualifed since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro Jazz musician.

Regarding my Mensa membership : After I was accepted as a member I did nothing more, paid no dues etc, and therefore I guess I am misleading by refering to myself as a “Mensa society member”, and I will therefore from now on use the expression “Mensa qualified”.

Truth finally comes out. I have been saying it for a long time that he was a fake Mensa member. Being qualified doesn’t mean a thing. Many people are qualified for lot of things but they don’t start putting it in their resume’s.

But fear not folks. The “unauthenticated Jazzman” may now start using “psychology” qualified to sign off, so start sending your problems to him.

Small sample size, not very representative. Anecdata. Other contributors may have alternative views, or even professional expertise to refute your assertions.

You call BS on the wrong guy, who is going to cram it back in your face. Typically, I have my facts straight, but you don’t.

Muzzle velocities range … to more than 1,200 m/s (3,900 ft/s — 2659 mph) in modern rifles with high-performance cartridges such as the .220 Swift and .204 Ruger, all the way to 1,700 m/s (5,600 ft/s or 3818 mph) for tank guns firing kinetic energy penetrator ammunition.

My adds in bold

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_velocity

Enjoy your lunch.

Armor piercing rounds are made of the hardest materials available, including DU, and they are propelled to very high speeds with muzzle velocity approaching 4,000 mph, or 5,600 fps.

Total BS. NO armor piercing bullet for a rifle carried by soldiers goes faster than 3300 fps for a M-16 and 2800 fps for a .308 rifle.

The superstructure is carrying the weight of the all the floors which are only connected to it with enough material to carry the weight of the floor plus a safety margin. Those connection points are sheared off by the mass that is coming down.

Comparing a small military jet hitting concrete to a 100 ton airliner hitting a building is a dumb comparison.

Dear Mensa Man:

Your anecdote is sweet.
And I believe it!
Obviously, your friend had far better listening skills than you.
(Hidden trigger, so don’t even bother.)
But, it doesn’t really cover the territory.
Your own self-regard is clearly impregnable.
Jetzt Schluss damit.

why Nazi and Pole and Ukrainian and Russian and Hungarian and Czech and Romanian and many others..

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailystormer.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2Fwhy-do-they-persecute-me-so-jew.jpg&f=1

Too many claims, not enough facts about World War II events. Commenters put forth theories and many stories but need to show agreement among historians and documentation.

Lawyers want stipulations. Commenters should want those to avoid more stupid arguments. Many discuss Holocaust but few agree on what happened and when and why it happened.

Murder is wrong, a mortal sin. Do not pretend to allow murder as moral act. It is not. Say why Nazi and Pole and Ukrainian and Russian and Hungarian and Czech and Romanian and many others turned on their neighbors. Describe how it is acceptable to a human to kill another human except in self defense.

To say following orders is no excuse for behavior when you meet to be interviewed by St. Peter.

” Man psychologists have noticed very clear behavior patterns”

Psychologists do not “Recognize” anything of value, period. They are , all of them full of shit.

I had a buddy in Germany, a clinical Psychologist with a degree from the prestigious university of Heidelberg, as a side note he was immensely wealthy through inheritance, anyway he wanted to kill himself, so I said : Why don’t you use your teachings on yourself, and his reply was : “you can’t use, as a psychologist, your training to counsel yourself” , which of course defies all logic and renders the book version of psychology as nonsense, which I knew anyway long before.

So we went for long walks along the Neckar river and myself, the non-shrink, by simply addressing to his everyday issues, which of course included his misfortunes with women, I managed to get him back on his feet with the instructions to never use the textbook shrink material again which he took to heart.

He got a job as a counselor at a rehab facility for heart patients, and he informed me months later that all he did was talk to the patients in a soothing manner, avoiding all psych texbook theories, such as I did with him during our walks, and that the patients loved him to the point of sending him letters of gratitude after he left that position.

Regarding my Mensa membership : After I was accepted as a member I did nothing more, paid no dues etc, and therefore I guess I am misleading by refering to myself as a “Mensa society member”, and I will therefore from now on use the expression “Mensa qualified”.

Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, ex Airborne US Army vet and pro Jazz artist.

Not really. Lots of evidence.

Uh, sure, but the *millions* claimed by the official narrative? Highly doubtful.

The point is that Aktion 1005 was conducted to cover evidence by burning corpses.

Keep in mind the Americans and British announced their intention to try the German leadership for war crimes well before the outcome was in doubt, so the Germans had every incentive to limit the amount of fodder they gave the Allies.

So, no?

More pedantry. The Americans were waging undeclared war against the Germans with naval provocations in the Atlantic, and at any rate made crystal-clear that they had Britain’s back.

What about it? I don’t dispute that the Germans committed a sufficient number of crimes in the east to fear condemnation as they started to lose the war, and hence tried to conceal these crimes. It hardly follows, however, that they committed the fantastical amount of crimes claimed.

“does anything in your linked documents talk about deliberately killing these people?”

Read through it yourself. Many documents doesn’t = “nebulous.” Your prev. usage excluded the existence of documents. Now “nebulous” = many documents. . . .

It is your job to document your assertions, not mine.

If you don’t speak/read German you can’t review any archival documents nor, IMHO, can you speak authoritatively on this subject.

The Americans didn’t even enter the war until 6 months into Barbarossa.

Very good. Now apply that same logic to Aktion 1005.

I used the term “nebulous” to describe the common post-war conception of nefarious German plans for a conquered east, and as per your first link (Wiki) that description is quite apt (as there were supposedly many plans, with much relevant documentation conveniently destroyed by the clever Germans).

I do not dispute that the Germans drew up (several) plans for dealing with occupied territories in the SU, but these (perhaps only because of wartime contingencies) never amounted to more than hypotheticals. In particular, although a German victory doubtless would have had deleterious demographic consequences for the Slavic populations in the SU (large scale deaths in such a poor region predated the Bolsheviks, literally millions depended on the fortune of a good crop), does anything in your linked documents talk about deliberately killing these people?

You’re just being pedantic here. The Germans had to deal with the Anglo-American threat throughout the Soviet campaign, well before any actual landings in the west.

Absurd comparison. Forest fires happen under very specific sets of conditions, e.g. you don’t start a forest fire by simply tossing a lot match by some random trees.

Actually, the document at the website I linked doesn’t look “nebulous.”

I guess that’s why forest fires never happen.

You are making a lot of mistakes here, not the least of which is misrepresenting Hilberg’s argument. More importantly, most of the planning was complete before a two front war had begun. Most of the killing was over before the second front reached Europe (Sicily).

Generalplan Ost is one of those fictitious “official” documents that were never actually uncovered in some German archive but rather a nebulous plot inferred from different, often conflicting German plans re. the postwar East. The idea that there was some master plan to kill Slavs (after the Jews were finished) is pure bunk. (Not that the Germans had much regard for the Slavic population in these areas, but German concern was with their war effort, no different from any other occupying power. In contrast witness the British-engineered famine in the Bengal, which went well beyond any legitimate British war effort.)

Forest or not, it takes months of exposure to dry, warm weather to dry and cure firewood – or a storage facility to shield the wood from the elements. It is not a matter of simply cutting down green trees and setting the wood on fire.

Fair enough regarding the timeline of German economic planning. But it is nonetheless absurd to think that, during a two-front war against opponents with far greater resources, a genocide was organized and operated by nods and winks, which is essentially what Hilberg claims.

As always, bringing up Hilberg’s rationalization for the lack of documentary evidence hits a nerve. But his claim is specious on its face. Why should I grant him the benefit of a charitable interpretation, when his argument is ridiculous?

This should read:

Why are some people *not ok* with 1000′s of Jews shot at Babi Yar, but *ok* with 100K Japanese killed in the fire-bombing of Tokyo? (Never mind, I know the answer.)

Yes, you are right, I messed that up. My point is that we hear great outrage and calls for moral soul-searching because of particular German crimes realistically numbering in the 1000′s, but not much about Allied crimes numbering much, much higher.

“nd NOT an extermination plan. ”

I assume you speak German and thus can verify or refute the existencen of an extermination plan relating to the population of Ukraine.

Here is an English-language entry on Generalplan Ost:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

For German readers like yourself:

http://www.1000dokumente.de/index.html?c=dokument_de&dokument=0138_gpo&object=context&l=de

Here you can page through each page of one of the relevant documents and read about the plans in detail:

http://www.1000dokumente.de/index.html?c=dokument_de&dokument=0138_gpo&object=facsimile&pimage=99&v=100&nav=&l=de

Well, gee, it might help by pointing out that Rumbula is a forest…

I meant, children who are raised by those parents.
I agree that many psychiatrists/ shrinks (same diff) are said to be full of BS. I have very little personal experience/knowledge of psychiatrists and their beliefs and practices.
My comment is not derived from the practice of psychiatry.
Rather, many psychologists have noticed very clear behavior patterns that are multigenerational.
Not just responses to trauma, but also other patterns.
For example, in one family the response to trauma (which can have any number of causes, such a divorce, serious illness, death of parent or other child, etc.) is to pull together as a family.
In another, the clear response to trauma is for the family to break apart.
There are many sources of trauma in the world, not just war.
I am sure that as a member of Mensa you know this already, or, if you don’t already know it, it certainly will not be admitted to your knowledge universe now.
Every time I see your tagline it gives me a chuckle.
Actually, just wondering about Mensa membership, I googled “Mensa criteria” and Google helpfully returned some additional questions, which I had never considered. One of them was “How much does Mensa membership cost?” The answer: “The Mensa Admission Test costs $40, takes two hours, and consists of two separate exams: the Mensa Wonderlic® and the Mensa Admission Test. Anyone scoring in the 98th percentile or higher on either gains the right to pay $70 per year for membership.”
Wow, $70/year since 1973 = $3,080!!
Now, if that money had been compounded at 5% (including of course the additional $70/year), how much would it be? According to the Monkey calculator that would be $11,708.01 by now. Paying for that annual Mensa membership—gaining “the right to pay for Mensa membership”—doesn’t sound all that smart to me . . .

I know little about Rumbula, but I would like to know where the mass graves were located, how they were excavated- was it by shovel, excavators, or perchance with Sonderkommando digging with their hands? Also, how were the hundreds of thousands of pounds of dried, cured firewood obtained and how were they transported?

Also, I am not claiming that the “Nazis” held their fire at Babi Yar, only that the execution of a few hundred or so hostages or partisan suspects is a far cry from the execution, burial, exhumation and cremation of over 30,000 victims, for which there is ZERO forensic evidence.

I think you meant to write, “Why are some people not okay with 1000′s of Jews (allegedly) shot at Babi Yar…”

To further illustrate the point – German soldiers were regulary murdered, tortured and mutilated by partisans. Many had their eyes gouged out; some were burned to death. Do you remember the outrage at the four mercenaries being hanged on the bridge in Fallujah? How many thousands ofIraqi civilians had to die to avenge their deaths? Our kosher overlords are absolutely implacable in their selective indignation.

Good grief. A farrago of cliches and invocations of “lebensraum” (which incidentally, only means “living space”, predated the National Socialist movement and has no really sinister connotations unless force fit into the Manichean narrative of official historiography). I do not think I have heard that old cliche “untermenschen” for quite a while.

France was defeated because of Von Manstein’s and unanticipated armored thrust through the Ardennes, which effectively split the allied forces in two, not because the Wehrmacht was full of wunderwaffen or supermen. The Wehrmacht simply had better leadership and tactics. In a war of attrition this would not matter in the long run, which is why Hitler knew that the war against the Soviets could only be won by a knockout punch.

Hitler was not stupid. As he confessed to Marshal Mannerheim in the surreptitiously recorded meeting in the rail car, he knew that Barbarossa was a desperate gamble, and that his forces were not equipped for a winter war or for a long war of attrition. He acted not out of desperation in the face of a gigantic invasion force staging on the western frontiers of the USSR and, had it not been preempted, would have swept through Europe like a tsunami.

The fact is that Hitler only ordered his generals to plan for Barbarossa after his and Ribbentrop’s last meeting with Molotov in November of 1940, when the latter’s demands made clear that the Soviets had no interest in maintaining the terms of Molotov-Ribbentrop. The Soviets had annexed the Baltics and Besarrabia. They had invaded both eastern Poland and Finland and were demanding the right to reoccupy Finland, annex Bukovina, in effect, to occupy Romania, and to make a move on the Dardanelles.

How do you explain the deployment of the 9th Rifle Corps- the most powerful military formation on the face of the earth- at the Romanian border -in easy striking distance of the Romanian oil fields – in the spring and early summer of 1941? The seizure of the oil fields would have led the mechanized assets of the Wehrmacht to grind to a halt within a few weeks.

A couple of points here. First, Germany did not enter a total war scenario until 1943, by which point most of the Jews in Europe were already dead. Second, even if that were not true, your statement about Hilberg demonstrates the extent to which you’re totally ignorant of his argument.

” As we know, trauma is not banished with death but lives on in various forms in the children of the traumatized”

Just who the hell is “We” : I don’t identify with this theory because it is simply not true, although it is another obnoxious and false concept propagated by the worst BS artists on this planet : Shrinks : Psychiatrists and Psychologists.

Children of “Traumatized” parents, if removed from the scene or conditions or cause of their parent’s trauma, bear no remnants whatsoever of their parents Trauma.

Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet and pro Jazz artist.

Rumbula is among the best documented war crimes in human history. There are reams of testimony from perpetrators, bystanders, and survivors, not to mention a documentary record that puts the whole event essentially beyond denial. Himmler’s service calendar remarks on the events repeatedly. When Aktion 1005 went to Riga and dug up bodies and burned them, the city stank for days, as witnesses still alive today can attest. To deny what happened at Rumbula would be the height of stupidity.

So it follows: If the Nazis were willing to shoot thousands of Jews at Rumbula, then what makes you think they’d have held their fire at Babi Yar?

I’m not afraid to say any of that, with the exception of the last part. Obviously the crimes committed by the Allies against civilian populations were on a massive scale and crimes against humanity for which there is no excuse. But to claim they were “far worse” than what the Nazis did to whole populations (with the exception of the Soviet rape campaign, which I submit is equally awful) is just blindingly dumb.

So I’m perfectly able to admit that “my side” did things for which there is no excuse.

You, on the other hand, will use a photo of a murderous Jew hater as your avatar but not admit that the actions the Nazis committed that would form the natural culmination of Codreanu’s words are absolutely fine by you. That makes you a coward, and a miserable one at that. I’d respect you for being honest if you just said it, which you won’t. And that makes you pathetic to boot.

{No, David Glantz did not debunk…}

Yes he did.

And neither Finnish nor Imperial Japanese military were in the league of the Wehrmacht.
Wehrmacht conquered all of France in less than 2 months.French at the time had far more artillery pieces and more and better tanks than the Wehrmacht.Both had the same number of men/divisions.
They lasted all of 46 days.

{ the Winter War against Finland….}

The war against Finland was a disaster for the Red Army.
It eventually prevailed against tiny Finland by sheer numbers alone.
Soviet losses in men were about 4X-5X that of Finland.
It was bloodbath for the Red Army.
Hitler partly based his miscalculation of Red Army strength on its disastrous performance in the Winter War.

“We only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down.”
—Adolf Hitler, just before Operation Barbarossa.

Hardly the evaluation of a military force that could conquer Nazi Germany.

{That is the real reason for the vast encirclements of entire armies….}

The real reason was that Stalin was shocked and paralyzed for hours/days when Hitler launched Barbarossa. For several hours as reports came in of Nazis crossing the border, Stalin refused to believe it was real, thought it was a provocation, and forbade Red Army from shooting back.

When he realized the invasion was real, he irrationally and in full panic refused to allow Red Army divisions to fall back, hallucinating that that would stop the Blitzkrieg. Millions of Red Army troops were encircled and either wiped out or taken prisoner (….to be later murdered by Nazi invaders: deliberately starved to death).

That was the real reason for the vast encirclement of entire Red Armies.
And the real reason for Hitler’s invasion of USSR was Lebensraum: subject Slavic Untermenschen to genocide and then populate the depopulated Slavic lands with Germanic peoples.

Also, Glantz (or anyone else) did not have anything like unfettered access to post-Soviet war archives, and does not claim so (although he does not exactly try to disabuse popular impressions to the contrary).

Yes. Even if we grant something like 1-2K people were shot at Babi Yar (to pick just a plausible number at random, keep in mind the official narrative claims 150K (!), Jews and non-Jews, were shot there over the entire course of the war), as you note, this was in response to a bombing of German HQ. Something the Americans would howl about terrorism if it happened to them.

Again, it needs to be repeated, apparently: however harsh and brutal German actions were, they were wartime contingencies and NOT an extermination plan. Why are some people ok with 1000′s of Jews shot at Babi Yar, but not 100K Japanese killed in the fire-bombing of Tokyo? (Never mind, I know the answer.)

No, David Glantz did not debunk the very palpable fact that the Soviets were preparing a massive invasion of Europe, scheduled for sometime in the summer or early fall of 1941:

The Red Army was not a “staggering colossus” as the title of Glantz’s book implies. The Soviets crushed the Japanese in the Battle of Khalkin Gol in 1939, and- despite taking heavy casualties in the Winter War against Finland- did manage to breach the Mannerheim Line, an extremely formidable and fortified defense.

The facts on the ground demonstrate quite convincingly that the Soviets were preparing for a massive invasion, with the bulk of their ground forces placed in the Lvov and Byalistock Salients along an east to west axis – perfect for offensive warfare, absolutely disastrous if preempted – which was indeed the case. That is the real reason for the vast encirclements of entire armies and the netting of huge amounts of prisoners during the first few weeks of Barbarossa. The Wehrmacht would never have been able to breach a fortified and strengthened Stalin Line.

I think that you’re ashamed to admit that the Allies burning hundreds of thousands of men, women and children to death in the great incendiary raids, deliberately strafing civilians and refugee columns, not to mention carrying out the greatest mass rape in recorded history is far worse in quantitative terms than the reprisal executions carried out on a scale lower by orders of magnitude in response to horrendous, vicious and in many cases sadistic partisan activity. Just say so.

I am not familiar with the particulars of the Rumbula massacre, but the tale of 33,000 plus Jews at Babi Yar appears to be a complete hoax. When the German Army occupied Kiev, there were detonations of bombs which had been planted in advance and which killed dozens of the occupation forces. There were some reprisal shootings for these illegal partisan actions, but nothing like 33,000.

The whole narrative of Babi Yar is ridiculous: the story goes that the Germans marched the Jews to the ravine, shot them down, buried them and then dug up the bodies during the infamous “Aktion 1005″ and burned all of the bodies to ashes on tombstones from a Jewish cemetery. The whole thing is nonsense. Such a massive operation would have required considerable earth moving equipment, hundreds of thousands of pounds of dried, cured firewood and the additional necessity of disposing of the cremated remains. Yet, aerial reconnaissance photographs taken of the ravine in the immediate aftermath of the alleged massive cremation operations show nothing; no major topographical disturbances no traces of the huge amount of wood ash, no mounds of earth, and no access roads into the ravine. Like many of the grossly exaggerated claims of the Holohoax Industry, Babi Yar is just another free invention of Soviet propaganda.

Nobody questions the fact that there were reprisal shootings carried out by the Einsatzgruppen or that the anti-partisan activity fully reciprocated the brutal (and in many instances sadistic and cruel) actions of the partisans, but it is likely that the numbers of victims of the alleged “Holocaust by bullets” has been exaggerated a hundred fold.

Indeed, the glaring lack of any kind of forensic or documentary evidence to support the very striking claims of the official narrative is precisely why Hilberg claims that Nazi officials essentially employed telepathy (a “meeting of the minds”) to carry out genocide. That planners during total war would be able to conduct operations this way is a little unbelievable, to put it mildly.

From Paul Craig Roberts: “Here is David Irving’s account of his arrest, trial, and imprisonment in Austria. His conviction was overturned by a higher court, and he was released. http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Banged/up.pdf

“On December 5, 1975, while researching Hitler’s War, I had asked Professor Hilberg, “Is there any acceptable evidence linking Hitler himself with the order to exterminate European Jews?” I added that there was of course enough evidence linking Hitler with the killing of Russian Jews and with the deportation of the European Jews to the East.
Professor Hilberg [Austrian-born Jewish-American political scientist and historian] replied that he too now believed there was no such Hitler extermination order: “Possibly, the destruction of the Jews was so drastic that it could only have occurred in an organic, evolutionary process, from vagueness to specify city, and in a very real administrative sense, from the bottom up.”
—————————
“On January 13, 1993 a Munich court fines me thirty thousand marks, around $25,000, for stating that the gas chamber shown to tourists at Auschwitz, the Nazi “death camp,” is a post-war fake. Poland has since confirmed that it was built in 1948. Despite this, countries around the world have used this “conviction”.

He is just one of the many truthers who are simply incapable of understanding such clear explanation.. Whether it has anything to do with the religious nature of their beliefs would be interesting to investigate. No doubt they wouldn’t have been easily put off belief in prophets ascending into heaven.

You only seem to know only how to be simply and obviously wrong in many words. The idea that the top of the building had to be disconnected from the lower floors to achieve destructive momentum under gravity is sbsurd. There simply had to be sufficient weakening of support to allow the weight of the upper floors above to overcome any remaining weak structural resistance where fire had been weakening the steel.

Your blather about light weight upper stories and heavier solider lower stories is just irrlevant crap which you have no chance of supporting with facts so I wonder if it is even worth inviting you to consuder the killer argument against the nonsense you have just spouted. That is the implications of WTC 2 comung down much sooner after the impact of the plane under the weight of 24 to 32 floors than WTC 1 under the werght of 11 to 15 floors.

You are right of course that it may matter whuch is in motion but you would have to get a figure for acceleration for the plane which was not apporeciably accelerating when it struck. Tentatively I would concoct a fantastically high figure for acceleration out of the rate of decdleration calculated from where the plane’s centre of mass was at the moment it hit to where it was in one second or whatever it was after it hit and had stopped. But maybe kinetic eñergy is more to ths point. The formula KE= 1/2 mv^2 where v is velocity makes your point very well since the building had no kinetic energy and the plane, because its high velocity is squares, has a great deal. The steel tube upright members which were on the outside edge of the buidings to maximise lettable space provided what may be regarded as friction to slow down the aircraft and generate enormous heat.

BTW if any of the truthers are still with us who scoffed at some relatively recent research and theorising which suggested the explosive qualities of aluminium at high temperature, at least in the presence of water, may have been responsible for some sound of explosion claimed to be heard by firemen, I invite them to consider some long obfuscated historical facts. First, there is no evidence that there is no evidence that the second explosion which hastened the sinking of the Lusitania was caused by a torpedo Second, there is strong evidence that it was caused by the explosion of aluminium powder which the ship was carrying (and maybe might have made the sinking justifiable if the Germans had known about it, which they obviously didn’t).

Yes, 2 million of the 4 million total are thought to have been the victims of Einsatztkommandos operating in occupied countries.
This figure is used by Louis Snyder, Encyclopedia of the Third Reich, which I think is considered a pretty good source. He says, “These formations [Einsatzgruppen, Einsatzkommandos, Einsatztruppen] were given the task of supervising the Final Solution of the Jewish problem by extermination. Together with other elements of hte Security Police, they were responsible for the deaths of 2 million of the estimated 6 million Jews killed.”

However he also says that they were “charged with destroying Communists, partisans, saboteurs, and Jews on the eastern front.”

They also participated in wiping out whole villages.
Wikipedia has this:
“Under the direction of Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler and the supervision of SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich, the Einsatzgruppen operated in territories occupied by the German armed forces following the invasion of Poland in September 1939 and Operation Barbarossa (the invasion of the Soviet Union) launched from occupied Poland in June 1941. The Einsatzgruppen worked hand-in-hand with the Orpo Police Battalions on the Eastern Front to carry out operations ranging from the murder of a few people to operations which lasted over two or more days, such as the massacre at Babi Yar with 33,771 Jews killed in two days, and the Rumbula massacre (with about 25,000 killed in two days of shooting). As ordered by Nazi leader Adolf Hitler, the Wehrmacht cooperated with the Einsatzgruppen and provided logistical support for their operations. Historian Raul Hilberg estimates that between 1941 and 1945 the Einsatzgruppen and related auxiliary troops killed more than two million people, including 1.3 million Jews. The total number of Jews murdered during the Holocaust is estimated at 5.5 to 6 million people.”

With such numbers it wouldn’t take long to add up to 400,000.
Not to forget, the Einsatzgruppen were active before the extermination camps were up and running. The primary locus for Einsatzgruppen activities were Poland and Ukraine (Babi Yar was the extermiantion of the ca. 37,000 Jews of Kiev). Ukraine was to be cleared of population except for remaining slave labor, so a lot of Ukrainians were victims of the Einsatzkommandos.

In a way, it is no wonder the Ukrainians of today seem to be sort of demented. It is really inconceivable what the parents and families of current adults experienced in their lives. As we know, trauma is not banished with death but lives on in various forms in the children of the traumatized.

The “Mass raping” of Italian women by French/Moroccan troops has nothing to do with American soldiers, who did NOT engage in such crimes.

You are twisting facts and concocting implications to fit your viewpoint.

Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz artist.

These “brown babies”, and white american fathered babies after the war in Germany, Italy, GB, France, were most definitely not the result of “Rape”, rather the liasons between GIs and multitudes of european women who were trying to make it to the US as a so-called war-brides.

In war ravished Europe the conditions were horrid and the big dream for the impoverished populations was to somehow make it to the US, and one of the avenues was to find a GI and cross the Atlantic as a “war-bride”, however many of the relationships dissipated due to the tough demands of military life, and the girls were left behind with their Kids, who were by the way entitled to US citizenship, which many of these now adults hold.

I was stationed in post-war Germany and France and there most certainly was no talk of “Rape” having been the cause of the manifestation of of these american-fathered children.
A GI convicted of rape could have been sentenced to death.

Oh Yeah just why the hell would the now adult “brown-babies” go searching for the the guys who supposedly “Raped” their mother? This all pure nonsense and you know it yourself.

Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society members since 1973, airborne qualified US Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

Great link, thank you annamaria. Few people grasp the extent of the Dulles brothers’ legacy at CIA and especially the Dulles legacy at Germany’s BND … where Germany’s intelligence agency is in possession of a ‘captured’ executive -

I hate to have to repeat myself — really I do — but as the top floors are falling, they are gaining mass (due to the increased amount of falling material) and acceleration (9.8 m per s^2), thus adding significant force as they fall.

No, the lighter top floors cannot crush the much heavier and stronger lower floors, no matter how furiously you wave your hands.

Recall that those upper 30 floors had been sitting there peacefully for 30 years without crushing anything. Even disconnected from the rest of the building, the only force acting on the upper section is gravity, same as it was before, so this entire conjecture is complete nonsense.

Steel box columns 2.5″ thick at the bottom, 0.25″ near the top. The “pile driver” is rubbish.

And anyway, before you can have your fanciful lightweight pile driver, you’ve got to explain how the top of WTC 2 got disconnected from the rest of the building in the first place, as we see in the image I posted upstream, in my #145.

http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-tale-of-the-brothers-awan/#comment-1964605

That involved not only cutting the central core, but also severing most if not all of the 244 exterior 14″ steel box columns.

Even a 767 with cutting edge wings going 500 mph — as fast as a speeding BB — wouldn’t be able to swing those razor sharp magic flying slicers around to get all the perimeter columns, in addition to the massive central core, and just cut off the entire top of the building like that, would it?

Armor piercing rounds are made of the hardest materials available, including DU, and they are propelled to very high speeds with muzzle velocity approaching 4,000 mph, or 5,600 fps.

500 mph is 733 fps, BB gun velocity. So it’s a soft metal, not going that fast, encountering hard steel.

The target consisted of a block of reinforced concrete 7 m square and 3.66 m thick with a total mass of 469 tons (almost 25 times the weight of the military jet). At impact a portion of each wing and tail was sheared off. The remainder of the aircraft was completely destroyed during the impact. Pieces were dispersed over a large area; the dispersion of the water which was to simulate the kerosene, however, was relatively small. Due to the fact that the reinforced concrete wall was mounted on top of an airbearing platform, it was only slightly damaged – with concrete spalling at the front face of the target. The penetration depth caused by the engines was 60 mm and that caused by the fuselage was 20 mm.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/aircraft-impact-damage-on-movable-concrete-block-vs-non-movable-concrete-block.495223/

So the engines penetrated to a depth of ~2.5″, the fuselage — substantially less. Of course, the jet-sled Phantom didn’t have the steak knife wings, so there’s that.

If there is one thing American soldiers were not guilty of that is/was “raping” of innocent women in war zones.

Germany’s ‘brown babies’ go in search of their American fathers: The extraordinary story of thousands of wartime children born to German mothers and black GIs
By Daily Mail Reporter
21 November 2011

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2064446/Germanys-brown-babies-search-American-fathers.html#ixzz4pawfy4l8

‘Brown babies’ in postwar Europe : the Italian case

PATRIARCA, Silvana

http://cadmus.eui.eu/handle/1814/41165

Probably because the Awan caper is part of an overall milieu of a Jewish ruling class in the US, and the holocaust as an official orthodoxy is obviously part of that power structure.

Illegal according to the conventions of war at the time re. non-uniformed combatants; reprisal shootings for such acts were also carried out by the British and Americans in Italy. Not that we really need to discuss how the British historically dealt with resistance in India and Africa to their empire, do we?

How did a thread about the brothers Awan get turned into holocaust arguminutia?

Classic thread jack guys, but seriously over done.

resorted to (illegal) partisan warfare

What is illegal about it, there was no peace treaty. In addition, the German were brutal to the Slavs since they didn’t think it would matter.

Because the WTC towers’ construction was lighter toward the top, and much more massive toward the ground, there is no way that the lighter upper floors could possibly crush the much stronger lower floors.

They can if they are moving downward like a pile driver.

One floor does not support the entire weight of the building above the floor. They are attached to the main superstructure which supports the weight of all the floors. However, the attachment points for each floor only support the weight of a floor and the necessary safety margin. The force of the top of the building coming down on an intact floor like a pile driver is enough to sever the attachment points of that floor. The pile driver has just added more mass to itself and it’s velocity was not slowed enough to compensate so it has even more energy as it shears off floor after floor until the whole building is down.

Why then isn’t the superstructure still standing? Because this huge mass of I beams, cement, and other debris pushing outward in all directions has pushed, twisted, and squashed it in into numerous failure modes.

Why don’t the ammunition manufacturers make armor piercing ammunition with hollow aluminum bullets, since they would be much lighter and have a greater velocity with respect to their target?

Take a look at reloading tables. Lighter bullets take more powder and have higher velocity but they lose power quicker. Even a solid aluminum bullet would require so much powder that it could not be put in a typical cartridge that a soldier could carry. In addition, after a few hundreds yards it would have lost so much energy that it would be useless in combat.

A body in motion – any body has kinetic energy equal to 1/2 times it’s mass times it’s velocity squared. 100 tons of an airplane traveling at 500 miles an hours is a lot of kinetic energy. This energy damages the supports by bending them, knocking holes in them, and this energy is converted to heat energy when it compresses the metal it contacts and when it compresses itself.

If you knew about the armor piercing bullets you pretend to, you would know that they penetrate the steel by compressing it to the point that it becomes molten. The back part of the bullet is still moving forward and pushes the molten steel out of the way. This same conversion of kinetic energy to heat is going on when the aircraft slams into the major structural components of the building. Of course, with such a large cross-sectional area, the heat generated isn’t enough to melt steel by itself but that heat is added to the heat generated by the burning jet fuel.

It doesn’t matter if the material penetrating the steel was made out of wood or tungsten as long as the projectile has the necessary energy to compress the steel to a molten state. It would just have to go extremely fast for a piece of wood to penetrate steel as compared to tungsten. Where the material would come into the discussion is that a denser material would have a smaller cross section and the pressure at the impact point would be much higher for the same mass. The idea that an airplane weighing 100 tons going 500 miles an hour should disintegrate at the side of the building without penetration, cartoon style, is something only somebody who has never taken any physics at any level could believe.

Because unless you’re a physicist, you should start with basic principles.

No, I think you’re ashamed to say clearly that you think Nazis shooting dozens of Jews is all right with you under any circumstances, which is what Codreanu himself believed.

So say it.

http://www.unz.com/proberts/tyranny-at-nuremberg/

good read on allied treachery and lies following WWII

In 1940 Jackson was US Attorney General. He addressed federal prosecutors and warned them against “picking the man and then putting investigators to work, to pin some offense on him. It is in this realm—in which the prosecutor picks some person whom he dislikes or desires to embarrass, or selects some group of unpopular persons and then looks for an offense—that the greatest danger of abuse of prosecuting power lies. It is here that law enforcement becomes personal, and the real crime becomes that of being unpopular with the predominant or governing group, being attached to the wrong political views or being personally obnoxious to, or in the way of, the prosecutor himself.”

I wonder if PCR was thinking in the back of his mind about Robert Mueller’s use of the law to destroy an unpopular person (and scores of millions of deplorables and irredeemables) and then looks for an ‘offense’ to convict them of?

how much would you like to bet that they’d love to crush some testicles (like they did to the Nazi defendants) in order to get some confessions?

“Both a building and a plane have made.” – ?!

Have you considered the direction of the force? Why don’t you first read the experts — the physicists’, chemists’, architects’, and mechanical engineers’ reports — before presenting the “basic principle in physics?”

Do you seriously think that I am ashamed or apologetic about having Codreanu as my avatar? Forget that. Codreanu was a true fighter for his people and ultimately paid for that with his life. That is more than most of the imbecilic lumpen prole infotainment consumers can say about those they admire, with their football jerseys evincing their admiration of athletes named Keishan, Devall or Tyrone.

Who are your role models? Ellen De Generes? Kanye West? The cast of “The View”?

Of course nothing is comparable to what the Red Army (not necessarily Russians) did to the women of Germany, but the western Allies did their fair share of raping and looting. I suggest you check out the book: “What Soldiers Do.” Also, how do you explain the mass rape of the Italian women in the villages in the vicinity of Monte Cassino (the destruction of which is another example of Allied barbarism)?
They were carried out by Moroccan troops encouraged to do so by the “Free French” General Jouin. The whole b.s. “Private Ryan” liberation narrative is crap. The only things liberated by the Anglo-Americans were the lives, real estate and possessions of Western and Central Europeans- from their rightful possessors.

Actually, I wonder if they had a lot of spring in their back, or just an agile tongue: who will help me decide.

It is interesting that Allen Dulles legacy is his subversive and considerable anti-democratic and pro-fascism influence which, in the long run, has profoundly hurt the US. It does make some minor justice to the legacy of Dulles that Imran Awan was arrested at the Dulles airport. The history of ziocon influence on the US policies is inseparable from the history of Dulles’ CIA. The incompetence of the CIA is traced to Dulles as well because of his cult unaccountability.

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/02/the-deepest-state-the-safari-club-allen-dulles-and-the-devils-chessboard/

Dulles’ dictum, “Democracy only works if the so-called intelligent people make it work. You can’t sit back and let democracy run itself,” has been taken in earnest by the US deciders — who did not “sit” indeed. As a result, we have a pre-nuclear-war situation, the devastating rule of banksters and war-profiteers, and the voiceless US citizenry (see single-payer bill killed in California by the Democrats). The official reports on the JFK murder and on the 9/11 “event” have too many holes to trust the thoroughly corrupt and incompetent puppets in the US Congress.

You’re kidding, right?

To bring down a building requires force.

Force, according to the most basic principle in physics, is equal to mass times acceleration.

Both a building and a plane have made. Only one has acceleration.

Can’t make it any more relevant for you. Sorry.

What you wrote has no sense in the context of the discussion. Except if you want to litter the Unz forum with debris.

” and (raping) and looting”

You are crazy , and talking shit.

If there is one thing American soldiers were not guilty of that is/was “raping” of innocent women in war zones.

No denying there were such rare and severely punished incidents, but such as wrought upon the civilian female population of Germany by the Russians : Did not happen.

Authenticjazzman “Mensa” Society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army Vet and pro Jazz musician.

I rather think Mulegino1 is fine with these things. His hero Codreanu was chanting “kill the Jews” long before the war began. That’s why he won’t answer. Being honest would alienate allies like you.

You needn’t have written your very long post with ample references to Jews: I am not Jewish.
I am of Armenian descent. Not my fight: lots of Jewish posters to discuss with you what you call {……those here who suffer from HDSⒸ [Hitler Derangement Syndrome]: }

(I suppose you consider yours truly so suffering from said syndrome?: you don’t have to be PC; you can tell it to my face)

My interest in Hitler and Nazis is their invasion of USSR (Armenia SSR was part of USSR then and lots and lots of Armenians from throughout USSR fought and KIA fighting Nazi invaders, including very high ranking officers)**.

All you had to do was entertain my original query, and not go on a Jewish tangent*.

You wrote:
[{Hitler Youth did not use terror, they used discipline. Their goal was not stealing other people’s land but rather defending their own.}]

I wrote:
[You are not serious, are you?
What were Hitler’s troops doing in Stalingrad?
Defending their own?
And of course Hitler was defending his own when he invaded USSR and killed millions of Slavic civilians,
And of course there was no such thing as Lebensraum.]

Again, what were Hitler’s troops doing on the banks of Volga river, ~3,000 kilometers East of Berlin?
And murdering ~15 million Soviet civilians and 10 million Soviet troops KIA is no syndrome: it is a fact.

___________
* I know all about Jewish-American Neocons, Jewish-American NGOs (e.g. ADL) who are working with Turks to deny the Armenian Genocide, State of Israel helping Azerbaijan/Turkbaijan to exterminate indigenous Armenians of Artsakh (aka Nagorno-Karabagh),….I know it all.
But I am discussing WW2 and invasion of USSR here, not the history of Jews.

** [During World War II, Marshal Bagramyan was the first non-Slavic military officer to become a commander of a Front. He was among several Armenians in the Soviet Army who held the highest proportion of high-ranking officers in the Soviet military during the war.] (Wiki)

Try this time to remain limited to this town and to German crimes against Jews. You and I are both aware of the context.

Or you can just admit that killing of a whole town of innocent people is ok with you provided they’re Jews,

iow, the deaths of millions of other people — innocent civilians or disarmed enemy combatants or turned warriors (i.e. Italian army) are of no account unless they are Jewish.

I remember the tune, “Dondi,” about an Italian kid orphaned in WWII. I understand that thousands of Italian children were orphaned in WWII.

The other day I searched for statistics on “Italian orphans WWII.”

Here’s what the first hit says:

http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/dc/cou/ita/ita-wo.html

Large numbers of children were displaced as well as many orphaned. We have very few details on the dimensions of the problem. We know more about the measures taken by Italian authorities to deal with it at this time. We do known that an Irish priest, influenced by Father Flanigan’s Boys’ Town, organized Boys’ Republic in 1945. The Catrtholic Church had programs to support war orphans. In many cases this meant children who had lost their fathers and the moter was unable to support them. Many were taken care of by extended Italian families. But larger numbers of children were on their own or with mothers who could not support them.

The second hit is to the same website and reports substantially the same story: not much is known; the Catholic Church helped some, but mostly Italian children were on their own.

The third and fourth hits provide information about

“a magnificent villa [at Selvino, called Sciesopoli ] that once housed 800 Jewish children orphaned by the Holocaust. . . .
Designed by architect Paolo Vieti-Violi in 1933, the building included dormitories, refectories, a cinema, an infirmary, a swimming pool and a 17,000-square-meter park. During the Mussolini regime, it had served as an institute for fascist youth.** . . .

It was organized and run under direction of British forces . . .

As noted below, the 800 Jewish children were either rescued from “German death camps” or gathered from “ghettoes and concentration camps”. Take you pick: as long as the Jewish kids are described as “victims of Holocaust ™ — i.e. living, breathing, superannuated survivors of the process of being wholly destroyed by fire — the description is accurate. Also as noted below, Italian orphans were assuredly not victims, they were fascists.

“Imagine, inside the building there was a cinema hall and a swimming pool. And it was in the Alps. It was really something for us,” says Burnstein, who is now 85 and lives in Israel. “We were mainly taught general knowledge and Hebrew. The brigade soldiers ran the studies. When we arrived in Israel we were already speaking Hebrew fluently.”
Sciesopoli provided a shelter to Jewish orphans until 1948; by then, most of the children had found their way to prestate Israel. Vital was the help of the Milan Jewish community, the Milan municipality, the Jewish Brigade, the Jewish Agency, the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, Youth Aliyah and former partisans.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.582759″

The purpose of the article in Haaretz is to raise the alarm that “Today, plans are afoot to tear the place down and build a tourist resort. . . They hope an international Jewish foundation will help them buy the property and work together on a renovation project. . . .to preserve its memory as a haven to Holocaust survivors. . . .
“We asked the regional council to establish a working group … for a rescue project that would include a memorial to the ‘children of Selvino,’” Cavallarin told Haaretz.
“
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.582759

from wikipedia, “Salvino children” –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selvino_children

The Selvino children were a group of approximately 810 Jewish children orphaned by the Holocaust,[1] rescued after World War II from ghettos and concentration camps

compare:

the “Sciesopoli” became known as the “Jewish Colony ”. As reported in documents: “the biggest orphanage in Italy and one of the largest in Europe…” approximately 800 Jewish children who survived the Nazi death camps were cared for in the building named Sciesopoli.

http://www.valbrembana.eu/en/poi/sciesopoli-dNSfwKYeyW-en

But what happened to the thousands of Italian children who were orphaned by war?

They got kicked out of the facility created for them.
In exchange they got a song. And a movie.
Such a deal.

–
** “institute for fascist youth” — ” A former Fascist children’s home called Sciesopol . . . The facility had been constructed in the 1932-1934s (the colony was inaugurated on June 11, 1933, built by the architect of sports facilities Paolo Vietti Violi) as a “sports palace” or gymnasium and training center for athletes.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selvino_children

1. For those here who suffer from HDSⒸ [Hitler Derangement Syndrome]: contemplate for a few minutes a pithy piece posted by Pat Lang a month ago: “Analysis is not advocacy.” Those who can learn and grow from such an insight, will.

2. re the extended/distended/distorted discussion re a comparison of Revisionist zionists and Hitler Youth:

” Ben-Gorian , Begin, Sharon, and Shamir were all terrorists. ”
Yes, also Moshe Arens–all of the top guys. Some of them were in the Revisionist Zionist youth group Betar, inspired by Jabotinksy, who was their hero. Revisionist Zionism was not religious. The impetus for the Jewish state *used* the religion as a pretext for their militant state, without actually believing in it. Self-righteous bandits, actually. Some had emigrated to the USA, were educated here, enjoyed the advantages of US citizenship etc., then returned as young fanatics to Palestine (no different in character from other fanatical youth groups such as the Hitler Youth or the Komsomol, youth organizations connected to a political party). There they deliberately founded their camps outside the areas where Jews had already settled/bought land, I think they called it the Jerusalem Corridor. That is, the aim was to provoke and harass and terrorize established Palestinian villages, near water supplies, etc. The project for the new Jewish caliphate can in many respects be compared to the ISIS project for a new caliphate.

especially the bolded statement that’s caused such agita:

“(no different in character from other fanatical youth groups such as the Hitler Youth or the Komsomol, youth organizations connected to a political party)”

The only similarity I see is that both groups were young/teenagers. More appropriately, esp. in the case of Jabotinskyites, RZs were young-to slightly older adults, many with superior educations obtained in Germany, Austria, USA, Rome — in the case of Vladimir Jabotinsky hisself: jabotinsky’s friend and biographer, J. Schectman (iirc) recorded that young Vlad found and grounded his “spiritual being” in Rome, where he was an ardent admirer of Mussolini.

While young Jabotinsky was reveling in the Russian literature of his home town of Odessa — where he disdained most association with things Jewish — then traveling to Rome to immerse himself in studies at universities there, future “Hitler Youth” were living in squalor, their bodies displaying rickets, intellectual deficiencies and other impacts of malnourishment in their youths, brought about by starvation blockades imposed on German civilians — women and children — by those guardians of civilization, the British, with a little help from Chaim Weizmann and his cohort who traded German children for a “Homeland for Jews in Palestine.” (Jews have a long history of taking out their revenge fantasies on other people’s children ***)

I don’t think “Hitler Youth” were “self-righteous bullies.” Aware of their background and context (i.e. attempting to do analysis, not advocacy), I perceive them as teenagers whose childhood had presaged a bleak future; they were given a new lease on life, a new future, by organization, inspiration and discipline delivered by the NS government [there was a film clip of a German who had been a youth in the NSDAP era, who reflected in positive terms on his life as a Hitler youth. I can no longer find it via a google search. Perhaps Wally can help??]

Die Fahne Hoch tells the story the Hitler Youth vested in; the lyrics contain a remembrance of their dead comrade, Horst Wessel; they valorize the “brown battalion” and “SS” who cleared the streets of what had been frequent riots involving “the Red Front” and reactionaries; the lyrics rejoice that the “days of freedom and of bread” were at hand; the German people were unified and had hope under the Stars and Stripes — oops, I mean under the German battle flag with its swastika symbol. Maybe Avery or Skeptikal or even Wiz of Oz can correct my deluded impression, but I don’t see any line or sentiment in Die Fahne Hoch that reflects hatred, or the intent to “dash infant’s heads against the rocks” [see *** below], yet early in 1933, James Waterman Wise, son of Rabbi Stephen Wise, wrote and published a book titled Swastika; http://www.unz.org/Pub/WiseJames-1933 (full text https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uva.x000417009;view=1up;seq=13 ) it opens with these words:

“By decree issued in Berlin March 12, 1933, the Nazi banner together with that of the Old Empire was proclaimed the flag of Germany. Upon it was inscribed the Swastika — symbolizing hatred of the Jew – and in that sign the new German Government, with Hitler at its head, declared and is waging official and relentless war upon 600,000 of its own citizens.”

The first chapter is titled, The Advance Guard of Hate.

Those opening words, penned sometime between March 12, 1933 and May, 1933, are even more interesting when juxtaposed with a conversation their author’s father, Rabbi Stephen Wise, had with then-supreme court justice, ultra-zionist and hofjuden Louis Brandeis sometime in the first two weeks of February, 1933: Brandeis directed Wise that “All Jews must leave Germany . . . I urge that no Jew remain in Germany.”
“How shall all 587,000 Jews should be removed from Germany,” replied Wise, incredulous.
“I urge that no Jew remain in Germany,” Brandeis repeated. [see "The Challenging Years," an autobiography, by Rabbi Stephen Wise].

Makes good sense, you say: Jews in Germany were in grievous peril; of course the ‘leader’ of zionist Jews would direct that they flee that peril.

BUT: (1) According the Breitman and Lichtman in “FDR and the Jews,” in 1933, Jews in Germany were not only not in a perilous status but the situation of Jews in Germany was calmed by NSDAP: after a short period in which power was consolidated, “NSDAP quelled physical violence against Jews . . . No Jew was sent to a concentration camp until late in 1938.”

(2) According to Francis Nicosia in Zionism and anti-Semitism in Nazi Germany, Jewish zionists from Palestine (the Mossad el-Aliyeh bet) worked openly with Gestapo and other German government authorities to assist German Jews to migrate to Palestine. If Germans were so driven by Jew-hatred that they were “waging official and relentless war upon 600,000 of its own citizens,” why were they not killing them on the spot?

(3) The real threat to Jews was taking place in Poland, home to about 3 million Jews, as well as Russia: in the wake of turmoil in those East European locales, Jews from both of these states clamored to get to Germany. The narrative spun around Herschel Grynszpan reflects the tensions between Jews in Poland, the Polish government, and the quest to migrate to Germany.
Why didn’t Brandeis direct that Jews from Poland be aided to leave Poland and migrate to Palestine?

(4) Waterman Wise’s book calls the Swastika the “symbol of Jew hatred.”
Interesting factoid: According to Ernst (“Putzi”) Hanfstaengl, Harvard grad, lunch companion to Franklin Roosevelt, financial backer of the enterprise that published “Mein Kampf” and angel to Adolf Hitler who encouraged him to write the book and later rescued him in the aftermath of the Beer hall Putsch, the “Heil, Hitler” chant was based on a Harvard football cheer, and the bold Red, White and Black Swastika banner that inspired so much fear in Waterman Wise bears an extremely close similarity to banners that dominated the Harvard campus in that era. Harvard’s banner symbolizes Hatred of Jews? Who knew?

(5) Finally, and perhaps most importantly, by combining readings from Vladimir Jabotinsky’s staunch vision for the resettlement of “ALL diaspora Jews in Palestine,” and Edwin Black’s explanations of the dire economic situation of the zionist project in Palestine, exacerbated by British Mandate rules that only wealthy Jews could enter the land — and only German Jews had that kind of wealth — it’s possible to understand a more try-to-reality version of Brandeis’s directive that “All Jews must leave Germany.” It was about the money (and the fanatic zionist ideology).

Fair enough, but other sources put the number at 2M. As I said, it’s somewhat fluid (not to mention unrealistic), only the 6M number appears engraved in stone.

The Soviets committed war crimes and resorted to (illegal) partisan warfare from the very beginning of Barbarossa, the fact that these particular shootings took place three months into the war is irrelevant.

And don’t be asinine, no one is “ok” with these kinds of things. Rational people can try to understand the overall context of historical events without having to resort to emotionalism, religious conviction, etc.

Turns out we’re both wrong. Hilberg puts open air shootings in the USSR by all perpetrators at 1.3 million.

I’m curious to know why you can’t seem to stay on topic. I’m talking about one town. You claim that this was a reprisal. OK, great: Tell me what the specific partisan activity was that caused this to occur. When responding, bear in mind that this event occurred a scare three months into Barbarossa, that the Red Army had overwhelmingly fled in the face of the invasion, and that the native population was overwhelmingly pro-German.

Try this time to remain limited to this town and to German crimes against Jews. You and I are both aware of the context.

Or you can just admit that killing of a whole town of innocent people is ok with you provided they’re Jews, Mr. “I have Codreanu as my avatar.” The choice remains yours.

Thanks in advance.

Yes, it is impossible for a building that size to be totally dustified in a few minutes by one or two planes. Totally nonsense. The true perps of this event screwed up big-time. Only the treasonous MSM saved their hides, as it continues to do. An employee of 20 years in the building, Wm. Rodriguez, heard explosions before the planes hit. He was interviewed for hours by the commission “studying” the event, and his testimony did not appear in the final report. Same sort of thing as happened with the Warren Commission. They always use the same M.O. with varying degrees of success depending on the media and the courage and determination of the true investigators.
Anyone who dismisses many years of serious research and warranted questions as “conspiracy theory” immediately loses any credibility. “Conspiracy theory” was a term invented by the CIA after the JFK assassination in response to questioning the absurd Warren Commission headed by, Allen Dulles, an expert in psychological warfare and sworn enemy of the man whose murder he was supposed to be investigating. If someone is satisfied with the conclusions of Official Government Reports, I wouldn’t trust them to investigator the death of my cat. And the conspiracy “theorists” (read facts) are the crazy ones? The media has made us think stupidly and insanely with huge holes in the final product, assuming we all have holes in our heads. I think it was who Orwell who said the lies of the media would be mostly lies of omission. How very prescient.

No, I believe he does say 2M. Perhaps you are nitpicking over the Einzatgruppen proper or some other German police group?

ok

A sufficient response is that ugly happen in war and the eastern front was particularly ugly. Even if the account of this event is accurate, I cannot understand why it is more noteworthy than the TENS of thousands of civilians killed by the Americans (safely high above the ground) at places like Dresden or Nagasaki.

But your proposal is simply pointless, because you provide absolutely no context. As Reynouard and Verbeke these actions, however excessive, took place in the course of anti-partisan activities, which were accordingly noted. For example, here

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/einsatz/situationreport88.html

we see that acts were investigated and individuals cleared, including asylum inmates who posed a general threat to public health. (There was a war going on, after all.). This hardly sounds like a grand extermination plan, although it is undoubtedly unpleasant stuff (as war always is).

Raseinai is merely noted in that link, so I cannot comment there, but in generally you propose a rather silly game.

Maybe you really didn’t look too hard at the video.

OK. I’ll take a harder look-see. I guess we have to trust nobody did a C.D. Jackson on it. Nevertheless, is amazing in these Change-the-Game disaster events with political implications, that things fall-in-place so well. They happen after breakfast or lunch, and yet full bios of the perps are available for the evening news; passports drop like gentle rain from blazing infernos above, blessing those that find with such quick solutions to what could have been an enigma wrapped in a mystery.
Several of the “hijackers” were truly shocked (not “shocked! shocked!”) by their notoriety, as they were still alive and well in Saudi Arabia and they sued the FBI. One young man could not fly at all and had lost his passport in Colorado.
I prefer Instant Karma to Imagine but in another observation, Lennon was spot on: mostly insane people run the world. The most successful just hide it better than Ms. Debbie W-S.

They were indeed. Germany was demonized for responding forcefully to Polish aggression, bellicosity and intransigence – which included total mobilization of the Polish armed forces before the Germans mobilized their own, as well as outright calls for war and the Polish occupation of Berlin. In response, England and France declared war on Germany for its war with (not on) Poland, yet completely ignored the Soviet invasion of Poland which occurred a few weeks later (not to mention the subsequent Soviet invasion of Finland, and the forced annexation of the Baltic states).

The Anglo-Americans were never called to account for invading and wrecking most of Western Europe and killing (and raping and looting) many more innocent civilians in the process than the Germans were ever accused of. But that was “liberation.”

If you had posted correct numbers in the first place, I would indeed have conceded that sporadic reprisal massacres of this magnitude did take place. Again, context is of extreme importance.
There was a horrendous struggle going on in the east and the partisans started it with their illegal atrocities against the Axis troops, so reprisals were taken against the civilian population. Women and adolescents were also involved in partisan activity, and it is most likely that most males of military age were already at the front, so the remaining civilian population in the towns would consist of women and children, including minors. There is also no question that Jews supported such activity, just as they supported the Bolshevik tyranny which their coreligionists imposed upon the people of these regions, which led to the spontaneous “pogroms” in the Baltic countries during the German advance. The Germans did not conduct, nor in most cases, even encourage such actions; their only crime was standing aside and letting them take place.

We know with absolute certitude that the Soviets committed far worse atrocities than anything realistically imputed to the Axis (in the European theater). And we also know that it was the British- and not the Germans- who began the policy of deliberately targeting the civilian population of Europe. The western Allies killed far more French and Italian civilians with their aerial bombing; they committed more rapes, stole and looted far more. Where is the moral outrage at these “holocausts”?

The behavior of German troops in the occupied France was, from all accounts, quite exemplary, especially compared to that of their Allied opponents.

Of course, when the discipline of history is fraught with such egregious double standards and duplicity, it becomes useless.

” Couldn’t hold your women”

” It is because of all that FAKE JAZZ”

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

How witty and original. You missed your calling as a stand up comic

I held on to the last one and she is the best of all , so things worked out just right.

Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

{Some people…..}

It would be highly irregular for people to take any kind of advice from a ruminant such as you, Dr. Bovine, M.D.

Some people just won’t accept sound medical advice, apparently.