I think the IQ debate is irrelevant. What we should be doing is using the same performance bar for everyone.

Some cultures, have no interest in certain things, and do not value them: genetics play no role. Also personal motivations and values, trump [!! everything else.

Say Jews and Chinese are very good at some things. I personally think both cultures would be a living death for me. If they like it, have at it.

Again, same bar, no privilege, just performance. You should stand or fall on your actions, how you treat others and not some religiously flavor lie that absolves you of blame or praise.

Considering the predominance of European genetics that doesn’t make a lick of sense.

They care about those left behind.

Really?

One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe.

I think it is necessary to state here – Zionism is above everything. I will not demand that the Jewish Agency allocate a sum of 300,000 or 100,000 pounds sterling to help European Jewry. And I think that whoever demands such things is performing an anti-Zionist act.

Yitzhak Gruenbaum

Said sometimes during the holocaust.

What you say of rich Jews I think is more true of rich white Gentiles.

Most rich Jews continue to vote Democrat. No matter how rich they become they remember the misery of the ghetto, the shtetl, and the lower east side of Manhattan. They care about those left behind.

Jerry Lewis, dead at 91.

What you are saying is not true. Jews succeed despite the hostility of people like you because of superior intelligence.

Myself and many others have no problem with the Jews being in charge due to their superior intelligence. We like to think of ourselves as living in a meritocracy, after all. The problem we have is that Jewish leadership is anything but benevolent. There is a complete lack of noblesse oblige (something not lacking in their WASP predecessors) and their self-destructive, self-fulfilling paranoia. They seem to believe that to maintain their position on top, they must weaken the majority culture and by extension, weaken their host nation.

Lewontin’s paper is from 1972. It is ancient history. There was no genome at that time. A political decision was made on this paper basis by American Anthropological Association. It was trictyl political affair.

Levontine created a straw man. He studied only several traits, chiefly blood groups and various protein related to blood cells. And it just happens that the variability within ethnic groups of these traits are large but similar among the different groups. Blood groups are just not good indicators of racial difference just like number of eyes or legs can’t be used to differentiate between ethnic groups because all humans have two legs and two eyes. Edwards criticism was valid but misguided because he went after the straw man. The correct criticism should be that blood does not matter. Already Shakespeare kind of knew that If you prick us with a pin, don’t we bleed? If you identified genes and alleles responsible for skin pigmentation, hair thickness, curliness of hairs, bone thickness you clearly could show that using these genes you can separate some ethnic groups with almost 100% precision.

Now data are available of genome for various racial groups and it would very easy to do the study on 1000′s of SNP’s. And you even would not need to know what functions they are responsible for. It would be a multivariate association and correlation study maximizing probability of identification of one ethnic group from among the others. But nobody will do it directly to disprove the dogma established by Levontine because that could be career suicide. But perhaps some results could be lifted from “legitimate” research like reconstruction of face mugshot from DNA:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129613-600-genetic-mugshot-recreates-faces-from-nothing-but-dna/
600 volunteers from populations with mixed European and West African ancestry. Because people from Europe and Africa tend to have differently shaped faces, studying people with mixed ancestry increased the chances of finding genetic variants affecting facial structure.

The problem is that those obsessed with race maniacally confuse it with purity.

Indeed, take race purity out of the conversation and they have absolutely nothing to say.

Here is a simple scientific fact. There are exactly zero humans with “racially pure blood”.

Build a theory on that simple fact and you might get to interesting places.

Persist on purity and all you will ever have is talk of “superiority” and similar inane fantasies.

So race denialism is “an argument put forward by Marxist ideologue Richard Lewontin in 1972, an argument since debunked so often and comprehensively it commonly appears in reference sources as “Lewontin’s Fallacy…”? But the links only point to Edwards and Wade as debunkers, while the Wiki source claims “Edwards’ critique is discussed in a number of academic and popular science books, with varying degrees of support.”

Doesn’t exactly sound like a lot of comprehensive debunking to me. Sorry John.

imho opinion white represent the perfect mix of various traits met in other races.

This is true of talented whites, not the loserish WNs.

See my hierarchy in comment #91.

To take whites as one group that has a higher income than Hispanics but lower than Asians, is wrong. Whites have to be separated out into their Schwarzenegger and DeVito segments. Although loser WNs are nowhere near half of all whites. Much, much less.

What I am saying is that by lying they get ahead.
That and ruthless ethnocentricism, and obsession with power.

Not a race.

Lying.

Let me correct you: Jews prevail because the worldly is their everything, and their hypersensitivity to slights and little concern for “truth”. Management of goy perceptions of their tribe is high priority stuff. But most of all Jews prevail because they are inherently more racist than any other group or race. Hence their predilection for insane levels of hypocrisy while they successfully promote genocidal/suicidal doctrines for the natives of their host countries.

Excellent observations true on all counts. For me and my family we will live outside the negrosphere. Heather Heyer who was killed in Charlottesville protesting for the negros was likely repeatedly warned by her parents of what happens when you run around with negros. The scene from Forrest Gump where Jenny has shacked up with the black panthers (Eric Holders pals) comes to mind. “Avoiding the groid” is sound advice for a better life for your stereotypical white person. Taki Mag once published a Derbyshire article with “The Talk” for white people. If you are a white parent it is worth reading.

http://takimag.com/article/the_talk_nonblack_version_john_derbyshire/print#axzz4qLgOWn95

Whites tend to complicate things. The best thing is looking at track record. Is there anything non white can show consistently better than whites? I have never posted on such blogs and this is my first and last post but imho opinion white represent the perfect mix of various traits met in other races. Until other races prove via their achievements that they can compete there is nothing to argue about.

Well, Cernovich is not a race guy as his primary goal.

True ‘alt-right’ is about fighting feminism, which is what Cernovich is. Ultimately, something can only be right-wing if it is small government/free market, so fighting feminism is right-wing. Since ‘white nationalism’ is just another form of feminism, it is left-wing (for other reasons as well).

The Nationalist-leftists, with their less-developed brains, took over the term, and turned their left-wing ideology into what the Democrat-left is happy to call ‘alt-right’. Hence, these Nationalist-Leftists are the biggest tools of all.

All of this intricate discussion and debate about IQ seems rather esoteric and almost meaningless when a black supremacist race surrealist lectures a class of totally silent, deer in the headlights looking, monumentally passive white (mostly) women that the white race is irredeemable, always has been and always will be inhuman demons. Forget white genocide, observe all of the “woke” white suicidalists.

Ashleigh (“white people, nothing you have is yours”) Shackleford

Welfare is welfare, it doesn’t matter what Israel spends it on. Don’t forget the bribe that the American tax payers pay to Egypt so that the Egyptians will play nice with Israel. That money should be counted to Israel’s welfare bill.

We should end all aid to every other nation. Not one dime to Israel, Egypt, or Outer Bumfreakistan.

Didn’t even Mike Cernovich marry some Persian lady or something? He’s fairly dissident-right.

Peace.

Of course. That is why it takes little to no prodding to get them to start bashing Irish, Italians, Poles, and as always, Jews.

Remember that White variance in brains/looks/talent/character is extremely high. Hence, whites occupy both extremities of human quality.

The hierarchy of economic productivity is :

Talented whites (including Jews)
Asians (East and South)
Hispanics
Blacks
Untalented whites (aka these WN wastebaskets, and fat femtwats).

That is why :

1) WNs are never given a platform by respectable whites, and whites will never unite as a unified group (this is of no benefit whatsoever to successful whites).
2) Bernie Sanders supporters are lily-white, despite his far-left views.
3) WN is a left-wing ideology, as their economic views are left-wing.
4) WNs (the minority that are straight) are unable to even get any white women, as white women have no reason to pollute themselves with this waste matter. Mid-tier white women thus prefer nonwhite men over these WNs, which makes sense based on the hierarchy above.
5) WNs have the IQ of Negros, the poor social skills of an Asian spazoid, etc. They truly combine the worst of all worlds. Again, this is to be expected of creatures that nature has designated as wastebaskets.
6) This is why white unity is impossible; there is no reason for respectable whites to have anything to do with white trashionalists.
7) Genetically, the very fact that superb whites even exists necessitates the production of individuals to act as wastebaskets for removal of genetic waste. WNs are these wastebaskets. This is also why WNs are disproportionately gay (as Jack Donovan has pointed out).
8) The first half of the 80s movie ‘Twins’ was in fact a good depiction of this. These two twins effectively represent the sharp bimodal distribution of white quality. Successful whites are personified by the Schwarzenegger character, while WNs by the DeVito character. Ignore the second half of the film because in reality, these two would never be on friendly terms, as nature produces waste for a reason.

This pretty much all there is to what White Trashionalists really are.

Those who blame whites for black poverty should be asked three questions.

Why do blacks in the United States have a higher standard of living than blacks in any black run country in the world?

Would blacks be better off in the United States if all the whites left?

Would whites be better off in the United States if all the blacks left?

In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

So why isn’t everyone here stinking rich?

“White” race generally only seems to have some coherent identity in the presence of “others”, “darkies”, etc. Once you remove them out of the picture, the fissures arise, quite quickly at that; what – us Nordics mingle with those Greeks??!! Pfffshhhhh!

Peace.

“Liberals thrill to the oratory of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Nevertheless, they know better than to walk along Martin Luther King Blvd., especially in the night.”

Liberal intellectuals and the absence of intelligence:

In her essay “No-Man’s-Land,” writer Eula Biss suggests that white people feel uncomfortable in black neighborhoods because they feel like they’ve done things for which they deserve to be punished. “We secretly suspect that we might have more than we deserve,” writes Biss. “We know that white folks have reaped some ill-gotten gains in this country. And so, privately, quietly, as a result of our own complicated guilt, we believe that we deserve to be hated, to be hurt, and to be killed.”

Eula Biss authored an essay in The New York Times called “White Debt.” She uses words and ideas like complacence, guilt, and something related to privilege called “opportunity hoarding.”

Eula Biss is also a professor in the English Department at Northwestern University and is best known for her book On Immunity. She’s also the author of Notes From No Man’s Land, which deals in part with her experience growing up in a multi-racial family.

Don’t worry. All bald, lanky emaciated White guys are marrying Asian women in drove, while their last mating chance is still available from Asian women.

All alt-right White guys have Asian women who support their ultra-White supremacy.
(Both couples bash their counterpart races.)

1. Richard Spencer –> Asian fetish
2. Christopher Cantwell (The tough guy in mob but cry in solo) –> never dated White women in his life, but spew out how supreme Whites are. –> Korean fetish
3. Christopher Baker (KKK leader) who called nigger at interviewer face –> Look at his wife
4. Derby –> Need I say more?

If you wonder, if White is so supreme, where are all White women?

Women are biologically endowed with the prospect of future. If all White guys who pushing the Alt-right movement are with Asian women,

You can only expect, Evolution is possible in so many ways. Like you’d see an artificial breeding of dogs even smaller than a cat in NYC.

At the risk of being labelled a race denier, I must say that I agree with you.

The problem with all this is that the American political concept of “race”, which essentially means skin colour, is either unscientific or pseudo-scientific and Mr Derbyshire’s attempt to dress it up in scientific jargon is disingenuous.

Pop science is another quasi scientific load of fraud. Unfortunately it’s pumped up by the media pimps and lapped up by the masses as if it has any substance at all.

Ho hum, another discussion of racial differences but nothing about affirmative action and discrimination against Whites in every job from Dr to dishwasher, mortgages, government SBA loans, contracts and virtually everything.

What losers we are. Where has our average 15 points higher IQ than blacks gotten us?

Nothing. Affirmative action has made intelligence and competency completely irrelevant.

Average 106 and 108 is not very high. There must be a lot of 120-130 Jews??

120 is considered very bright. 130 gifted.

I stopped reading amren to get away from Englemann. He’s followed me here to UNZ.

The problem with all this is that the American political concept of “race”, which essentially means skin colour, is either unscientific or pseudo-scientific and Mr Derbyshire’s attempt to dress it up in scientific jargon is disingenuous. Try to apply the American concept to Europe and you will very quickly find yourself in an incredible tangle of contradictions! One amusing example: if “whites”, Europeans, are a single “race” then, logically, all Europeans should come together to form a single state. That’s the underlying logic of the European Union, to which Mr Derbyshire is strongly opposed!

So much jaw-jaw about race seems to be a huge distraction from the problems that ail us.

Forget about race; it’s the bankers, stupid!

Looking behind rationalizations, pride, and other suchlike hungers and thirsts of the (individual and collective) ego, are the matter, so much more than economics.

You can’t tell anybody “X is more intelligent than you”. Has little to do with economics.

The White Queen, speaking to Alice in Through the Looking-Glass:

Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

That’s what human beings are like—other than the few freaks and misfits who take the empirical sciences seriously.

You still don’t tire of attempting to fix them, never the less!

Race, until Hitler, was just a scientific concept like nowadays dark matter, the nebulous concept of race ‘explained’ how whites got control of the world.
Race is the ‘explanation’ Houston Chamberlain gives for this white control of the world, the British ‘white man’s burden’, and the USA’s Manifest Destiny.
Chamberlain admits that nobody ever could define ‘race’.

Houston Stewart Chamberlain, ‘Die Grundlagen des Neunzehnten Jahrhunderts’, 1898- 1907, München

Innate human inequality has always been difficult for those who desire economic equality to accept.

Nevertheless, when something needs to be done well those selecting people to do it know that innate inequality exists.

Quick notions of Left/Right politically re IQ and heredity may deserve review? I have never found any background material as to the basis for the 1935 legislation in the USSR that outlawed IQ testing. That HUMAN beings are everywhere and always EQUAL is a dialectical principle–not a materialist assertion. There is rather firm reason to believe that among the features of Western life of interest and fascination to the USSR secret police helmsman, Beria, was the British WWII adaptation of the Raven Progressive Matrices aimed to reveal distinctions among the very bright—the Advanced Raven Matrices. This test appears to have been used (without permission or royalties ) by him in the NKVD up to the point of his arrest in about 1951. IQ tests were of interest within sectors of the very revolutionary Marxist-Leninist movement in the USSR during the 20′s. What exactly is there in dialectical materialism that would be at odds with the developed viewpoints of Arthur Jensen re IQ testing??

Some comments here, one by John Engleman, in particular, touch on the likelihood that most Americans think about human biodiversity –if not as intensely as most British people thought about sex during the Victorian era. But inhibition and confusion seem more basic as a barrier to general social awareness than is simply a lack of information and concepts–so well presented by this site. Great art–especially great film–can deal rather well with the basic barrier.

Web sites like this manifestly attract people who are not victims of a lot of subconscious confusions and repressions about human biodiversity. But my own sense is that about 95% of the literate population is beset with such subconscious detractions. But great art–especially film–is a way to engage the evolved regard to inner deceptions. Folks tend to be much more engaged about how they are fooling themselves than about “what’s out there”.

TO EDITOR: MY NAME IS AS IT IS PRESENTED. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS AS IT IS PRESENTED. MY CELL PHONE (TEXT PREFERRED) IS 785 210 6707. AM NOT SURE WHAT IS TURNING YOUR CRANKSHAFT IN ALL THIS?

You touch on the dynamics of subconscious intrusions / interferences. This is one reason why any “awakening” is likely to come from regard to our mental repressions and confusions–rather than merely pushing facts and concepts. It would appear that an escape into awareness is more the role of great literary and cinematic art than of “samizdat” commentary ?

“You singled out that particular Oxford example. I cited three different well-regarded dictionaries. How many more dictionary entries of the word “race” would you like me to supply you with? Please be specific.”

Indeed, but the Oxford notation is the one we have focused on.

“Your hypothetical Italian/Russian example is empty and meaningless.”

Actually, it is meaningful and critical to our discussion here.

“Yes, look closely at the form. The rest of the 15 options are ALSO considered “races”, which are further sorted under the larger five racial categories. In addition, for two of the “other” categories, there is the “print race” option, followed by a list of different ethnic groups as examples.”

Those options are meant for clarification purposes and to make comparisons between the groups.

“You can’t be serious…..”

As a heartbeat. What are your metrics for “prominent”?

Race was used to described one’s group in that example from Oxford, which you seem fixated on.

You singled out that particular Oxford example. I cited three different well-regarded dictionaries. How many more dictionary entries of the word “race” would you like me to supply you with? Please be specific..

Your hypothetical Italian/Russian example is empty and meaningless. I have no idea how Russians and Italians talk to each. Are they speaking Russian or Italian to each other? What are the translated terms? Do the Russian words for “race” and “ethnic group” have an absolute boundary? Do Russians ever refer to a “Russian race” in private conversations with other Russians? My own personal experience with overseas Asians, for example, has been that they, by and large, DO NOT view other Asians as being part of their own race.

Then they were asked to choose one or more of 15 options that make up FIVE RACE CATEGORIES

Yes, look closely at the form. The rest of the 15 options are ALSO considered “races”, which are further sorted under the larger five racial categories. In addition, for two of the “other” categories, there is the “print race” option, followed by a list of different ethnic groups as examples.

Now, when you say “prominent”, what metrics are you considering here?

You can’t be serious…..

At this point… whatever floats your bloat.

This discussion has just about outlived its usefulness. Have a nice day, sir.

“If the following two things are true:”

IF, being the operative word. Race was used to described one’s group in that example from Oxford, which you seem fixated on. Today, when an Italian talks to a Russian, generally speaking, they refer to themselves as being from a distinct ethnic group AND of the same race. If that Italian in the rarest of circumstances would say “I’m from the Italian race”, it is highly likely the Russian would find that characterization to be a “other than normal description”.

“The US does, however, consider ethnic groups, such as Chinese, Filipinos, Koreans, Vietnamese and Japanese (among others), to be distinct races in its Census.”

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/14/u-s-census-looking-at-big-changes-in-how-it-asks-about-race-and-ethnicity/

“The 2010 Census form asked two questions about race and ethnicity. First, people were asked whether they are of Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin. Then they were asked to choose one or more of 15 options that make up FIVE RACE CATEGORIES — white, black, American Indian/Alaska Native, Asian, or Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander. A separate question about Hispanic origin has been asked of all households since 1980, and the census form specifically instructs respondents that Hispanic origins are not races.”

“Also, please cite something by a prominent modern-day anthropologist, with a background in genetics, saying that White, Black, ect., are the only groupings that can be considered distinct races.”

Note that I clearly stated TYPICAL, not ONLY. Obviously today’s anthropologists are arguing over this issue. Your strawman is blown down.

Now, when you say “prominent”, what metrics are you considering here?

“There is a level of nuance present in these concepts that you seem unable to wrap your mind around. I’m sorry that this confuses matters for you.”

Project much?

Regardless, the Scots, Jews, Finns, and Japanese are NOT distinct races, they are ethnic groups. The typical racial categories remain black, white, Asian, and aboriginal.

If the following two things are true:

a) There are distinct ethnic groups..

b) The word “race” can be used in place of “ethnic group”.

Then.. these can be considered distinct races. Although, of course, they are not commonly referred to as such in multicultural/multiracial societies, such as the US. The US does, however, consider ethnic groups, such as Chinese, Filipinos, Koreans, Vietnamese and Japanese (among others), to be distinct races in its Census.

Also, please cite something by a prominent modern-day anthropologist, with a background in genetics, saying that White, Black, ect., are the only groupings that can be considered distinct races. I don’t know of anyone in the field who talks like this in reference to present-day populations. And no, sociologists DON’T count.

There is a level of nuance present in these concepts that you seem unable to wrap your mind around. I’m sorry that this confuses matters for you. Anyway, until you can give me a reasonable source, I will probably not even bother responding.

In one of his essays Yevgeny Yevtushenko wrote that under the rule of Stalin Russians lived in two worlds. There was the world of Soviet propaganda, which they tried to believe in. In this world workers confidently marched forward, arm in arm, as they built a classless society.

There was also the world in which they knew that they were poor, and that their friends, neighbors, and relatives often disappeared, and were never heard of again.

That is similar to the world of race denialism and race realism. Corporations pay lip service to affirmative action and diversity. Nevertheless, they know that if they do not hire the applicants with the highest IQ’s their rivals will. They know that light skinned people tend to have higher IQ’s than dark skinned people.

Liberals thrill to the oratory of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Nevertheless, they know better than to walk along Martin Luther King Blvd., especially in the night.

Corvinus:

No matter how good the Blacks could have or might have been treated, the results were inevitable: long-held grievances leading to black disenchantment and much much more!

In Ireland some time after the Famine, the British acted relatively fairly toward the Catholics (at least in the non-Presbyterian South). That did not placate the Irish populace who harbored long-simmering grievances, resulting in the IRA of which my father was a member!

“Segregationist violence made the civil rights legislation possible.”

No, southrons blatantly refusing to adhere to the “separate but equal” doctrine as stated in the Plessy made civil rights legislation necessary.

Regardless, the Scots, Jews, Finns, and Japanese are NOT distinct races, they are ethnic groups. The typical racial categories remain black, white, Asian, and aboriginal. It may be considered valid by the University of Oxford, and it may be used in a particular instance, but the example serves from my vantage point to confuse matters.

And I thought the Alt Right was wary of universities preaching their advocation of “knowledge”.

In his speech at the most recent American Renaissance conference Sam Dickson gave an interesting description of how it felt to be a segregationist during the civil rights movement. There were only a few national news outlets. They were all sympathetic with the civil rights movement.

However, less civilized segregationists than Sam Dickson made it easy for the civil rights movement by responding violently to peaceful civil rights demonstrators.

Segregationist violence made the civil rights legislation possible. If segregationists had responded with polite forbearance to the civil rights demonstrations, while waiting for the black ghetto riots that happened from 1964 to 1968, I doubt the civil rights legislation would have been passed.

A question re American Renaissance is just what significance has been accorded the publication and the web site and the Conferences since the inception in the early 90′s–what significance has been accorded by “American watchers” in the academic and national security elements of advanced nations like China, Japan, and Russia? The more basic question is what significance is seen in the general American disregard of, and fearful whispering about, the evolved biological bases of human diversity. American studies are much emphasized in key universities in these nations, but I’ve never seen a word regarding the question.

I trust John is aware of the current AR feature re Sam Dickson. Dickson has been right at the side of Jared Taylor for every AR Conference, from the initial one in 1994. Sam mentions Revilo Oliver and attributes to him an exceptional brilliance. But Professor Oliver was also feverishly critical of Jews. Henry Kissinger was no mental lightweight. When President Nixon asked, “Henry, what about the Jews”, the reply notably began, “There are Jews and there are Jews…” An unfavorable monolithic notion about Jews vis a vis human biodiversity is unjust.

In this context, race serves as “a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group”.

That has been my point the whole time…. The word being used by Oxford is not “ethnic group”, and it certainly isn’t “ethnicity”. It is the word “race” that is being used in place of the more commonly used term “ethnic group”. Oxford refers to Scots as a “race”, just like the commenters above referred to Jews, Finns, and Japanese people as “races”. I have no interest in the discussion of “superior races”, but term itself is valid in this instance, unless you happen to believe that Oxford Dictionary (and many other dictionaries) are being “other than accurate”. No offense, but I am not inclined to take the word of some anonymous chap on the internet over that of the University of Oxford.

“Disregard what I said about it being my last comment. I just wanted to let you know that I’ve since made a mental note that height and good looks are not racial traits, but cultural ones. Thank you for this information.”

The example given by the Oxford Dictionary “We Scots might be handsome but, as a race, we’re not renowned for our height” referenced an ethnic group, the Scots, comparing themselves to other ethnic groups in informal terms regarding two specific biological traits. In this context, race serves as “a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group”.

Remember, there are multiple sections of DNA that contributes to height. Environmental factors also determine one’s maximum height. Now, a group of people with the same ethnicity has more DNA in common than a random group of people from other ethnicities. While some of the DNA the Scots have in common might impact their maximum height as a group, it represents the average maximum height possible, not the height of each individual in the group. Bear in mind that any two individuals with the same ethnicity also have many DNA differences when it comes to height.

Indeed, people tend to be attracted to people who are similar to us. Called assortative mating, this phenomenon is shown in traits like race, age, facial characteristics, and body type. There is a definitive genetic basis. However, personal preferences also dictate whether one person from a particular ethnic group will or will not date outside of their particular ethnic group or race.

Disregard what I said about it being my last comment. I just wanted to let you know that I’ve since made a mental note that height and good looks are not racial traits, but cultural ones. Thank you for this information.

“BTW. this will be my last comment on the topic.”

Of course it is. Run, run away. I submitted several pieces of evidence. You have stated the same thing.

“We Scots might be handsome but, as a race, we’re not renowned for our height.”

The person here is talking about their group of people from a cultural, not racial, standpoint. Historically, Europeans had viewed one another as a distinct race. With the advent of modern anthropology, that perspective is antiquated.

“The Scots are not part of the Caucasian race.”

The Caucasian race (also Caucasoid or Europid] is a grouping of human beings historically regarded as a biological taxon, which, depending on which of the historical race classifications used, have usually included some or all of the ancient and modern populations of Europe, the Caucasus, Asia Minor, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, Western Asia, Central Asia and South Asia.

I believe that Scots are part of Europe.

“The three major racial groupings (Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid) that were used by some historical anthropologists are useless for today’s standards, and have been for quite some time now.”

Not necessarily. Here offers context and clarification.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1509085

“The main difference between the two terms is that “race” has negative historical connotations, when used in referring to different populations, outside of social justice contexts.”

Race AND ethnicity each have negative historical connotations. The Irish are perhaps the best example of how one particular ethnic group was viewed by other ethnic groups. Certainly race and ethnicity overlap, but they are obviously distinct.

In this context, the Scots are viewed as an ethnic group.

Race and ethnic group mean the same thing in this context (as it did with the lad talking about Finns and Japanese), hence Oxford’s substitution of “race” for “ethnic group”.

But the Scots, as a group, are part of the Caucasian race.

The Scots are not part of the Caucasian race. “Caucasian” refers to people from the Caucasus region, except for in the United States, where it is sometimes (incorrectly) used to refer to White people. However it is not used in this context by modern anthropologists. The three major racial groupings (Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid) that were used by some historical anthropologists are useless for today’s standards, and have been for quite some time now.

The terms “race” and “ethnic group” aren’t used by modern anthropologists/geneticists nearly as much as you seem to think they are. Furthermore, there isn’t any hard boundary between the two terms, as you also seem inclined to believe. These terms, more often used colloquially, are sociocultural constructs, as you pointed out earlier, that happen to have biological (and cultural) underpinnings. The main difference between the two terms is that “race” has negative historical connotations, when used in referring to different populations, outside of social justice contexts. But that doesn’t negate the validity of its usage in colloquial speech. I had assumed you were more well-read on the topic (as in historical books, modern books, scientific papers, ect.; not Wikipedia links), but perhaps I was wrong.

BTW. this will be my last comment on the topic.

“I didn’t say the two terms are interchangeable.”

I said “And people using it interchangeably are other than accurate.” Which could or could not include you.

“I said “race” can be used in place of “ethnic group”; not visa versa.”

Which is

” You already demonstrated my point when you referenced Oxford’s example referring to the “Scottish race””

In this context, the Scots are viewed as an ethnic group. But the Scots, as a group, are part of the Caucasian race.

“Until you can cite something (other than your own sentiments) to the contrary, then calling the Scottish people a “race” will continue to constitute valid usage of a defined term.”

I already submitted evidence in Comment 45. The scots are not defined as a race through anthropology. There is no racial difference between a Scot, Englishman, Irishman, or German. The Scots are separated by culture, geography, and community. Again, when someone employs the term “Scottish race”, it is referring to their ethnic background.

Wikipedia states that “the Scottish people (Scots: Scots Fowk, Scottish Gaelic: Albannaich), or Scots, are a nation and ethnic group native to Scotland.”

Infogalatic states that the “Scottish people (Scots: Scots Fowk, Scottish Gaelic: Albannaich), or Scots, are a nation and socially defined ethnic group resident in Scotland. Historically, they emerged from an amalgamation of two groups—the Picts and Gaels—who founded the Kingdom of Scotland (or Alba) in the 9th century, and thought to have been ethnolinguistically Celts.”

And people using it interchangeably are other than accurate.

I didn’t say the two terms are interchangeable. I said “race” can be used in place of “ethnic group”; not visa versa. You already demonstrated my point when you referenced Oxford’s example referring to the “Scottish race”. Do the folks at the University of Oxford know that the Scottish people aren’t a race? Maybe you should contact them and inform them of their mistake.

Until you can cite something (other than your own sentiments) to the contrary, then calling the Scottish people a “race” will continue to constitute valid usage of a defined term.

This article is from American Renaissance. It is far past time for American Renaissance to publish some self-survey information and some sense–appropriate to a free society based on social consensus–of how rather consistent AR supporters are not– and should not be—”one big happy family”. There is an overall–if not precise–distinction among AR attendees and contributors between those who have a genuine Christian commitment and those who don’t–and including those who are clearly hostile toward Christianity (and more so toward reform Jews ) Within AR there is a keen need for much greater perception of just what voiceless but attentive readers and attendees think re the issues brought forth. There is a long overdue need to give regard to those who value the useful primer materials from AR re the relevant science of the diversity emergent within human evolution …BUT who do not value the endless fever for activism. And there seems within AR publications little concern for just what the reservations toward activism may be. It is silly to presume that those opposing AR activism are typified by leftie campus barbarians There is much more to the story than that.

“Correct. The word “race” can be used in place of “ethnic group”, as it has been throughout much of history.”

And people using it interchangeably are other than accurate. Common ancestry is a trait of race and ethnicity. BUT they are also noticeably different. Race is primarily unitary–you can be one race, but have many ethnic affilitations. You can identify culturally to German or Italian, but identify racially, i.e. physical features, with black, white, Asian, or native American. These concepts have separate meanings.

Yeah, but they’ll all be getting knocked up by the same dude.

If Congress could be purchased that way, the Chinese would… oh.

More seriously that smacks more of subsidies and pork; countries often provide foreign aid with the requirement it be used to purchase products from their nation. A way to get around free trade rules.

A brilliantly basic precept of the late Arthur R. Jensen was that nothing scientific could be racist
and nothing racist could be scientific. Plenty of able people refrain from public discussion of the relevant science for want of assurance that the social-emotional basics of our society are a suitable
foundation for a rational open policy discussion. Among literate people in our society, there is far,
far more “whispering” going on than open discussion. This leaves no real basis for attempting to consider what should or should not be done.

Remember, race is both a biological and social construct.

Correct. The word “race” can be used in place of “ethnic group”, as it has been throughout much of history.

“But none of that renders the use of “race” in this context as being incorrect.”

Oxford Dictionary: A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.

An example given by O.D. –> ‘We Scots might be handsome but, as a race, we’re not renowned for our height.’

In this context, the Scots are viewed as an ethnic group. But the Scots, as a group, are part of the Caucasian race. Remember, race is both a biological and social construct.

Sure, you can even take it a step further and list all of the many different ways that every population has ever been categorized at a given point in history. But none of that renders the use of “race” in this context as being incorrect.

Ever more educated, thoughtful citizens observe persistent patterns in group social outcomes that contradict official dogma. (The thoughtcrime of Noticing.) They conclude that the race-denialist Emperor has no clothes.

And then what? So what if more and more people notice, so long as they stay utterly silent about it? Because the ending of the story of The Emperor’s New Clothes is ahistorical and absurd. You know what actually happens when some naïve kid pipes up about the Emperor’s nakedness? It’s not “everyone comes out and admits the truth”, it’s the little brat and his parents being publicly executed for lèse-majesté, and everyone else properly “encouraged” thereby to keep on praising the cut and quality of His Majesty’s splendid attire.

By convention the Finns are Caucasian, and the Japanese are Asian.

For the Finns, they were classified with the Mongol race in the 1800′s because anthropologists of that day lumped Finns with the Sam (Laplanders), a nomadic, faintly Asiatic people.

For the Japanese, there is a mix of Mongolian, Polynesian, and Ainu, among other eastern based ethnic groups, mixed in it.

Regardless, Japanese and Finns aren’t races.

Sure they are.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock

Oxford Dictionary:

A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.

Cambridge Dictionary:

any group into which humans can be divided according to their shared physical or genetic characteristics

The United States gives Israel money to buy weapons from American companies.

Right, usually military hardware, so in effect it’s free. They also use free money provided by Uncle Sam to purchase and compromise almost the entire U.S. Congress for Israel such that the Congress is just an extension of the Israeli Knesset.

“I’m using the term race in the same manner as the person I was responding to.”

Regardless, Japanese and Finns aren’t races.

“Europe is importing people who are commiting a vast amount of new crime while simultaneously not having children. Pretty much mass suicide.”

A person could argue that it is poor decision making. But mass suicide? That is Fake News. Should not individuals decide for themselves if they want to have offspring? Again, what is this fixation with “below replacement level”? Do you have at least 5 or more white children to make up the difference for your less responsible white brethren?

The parasitic wasp is superior to spider*

They aren’t races, they are ethnic groups. The Japanese are Asian, the Finns are Caucasian. Regardless, there is one race that trumps them all–the human race. Pro-race is code for anti-humanity.

I’m using the term race in the same manner as the person I was responding to (unless you think Jews are their own race). Saying the human race is superior is a bit like saying dog is the superior breed of dog.

Except that the white races is other than committing mass suicide. Also, why are some people here so fixated with “below replacement birth rates”?

Europe is importing people who are commiting a vast amount of new crime while simultaneously not having children. Pretty much mass suicide.

As for below replacement, should be obvious- groups below replacement eventually die out. Lets take Japan. 1.4 TFR means that each cohort is 70% the size of the one before it. So you go
100
70
49
34
24
16
11
8

The noble savage myth is a pretty big one. I recall being taught about Plains Indians counting coup. It seems like a very brave and noble practice, until you find out how they seemed to have usually tortured the men they defeated to death.

In some tribes the women were the ones who tortured the captive warriors over a few weeks unto death. This was a prime source of amusement, laughs, entertainment. This went on before the white man came and afterwards.
Tribes went to war not just over resources such as water and hunting grounds. They often warred simply because the braves (warriors) wanted to gain higher status within their tribe and capture sex slaves too, which also meant more offspring so more power.

“Honestly, Japanese or Finns are the best contenders for superior race.”

They aren’t races, they are ethnic groups. The Japanese are Asian, the Finns are Caucasian. Regardless, there is one race that trumps them all–the human race. Pro-race is code for anti-humanity.

“Smart, functional, societies not committing mass suicide- their only flaws are below replacement birth rates…”

Except that the white races is other than committing mass suicide. Also, why are some people here so fixated with “below replacement birth rates”?

Amren has a “soft spot” for jews. Legitimate criticism of jews and their sordid, shady practices WILL get one banned from Amren.
It would appear that Amren is “controlled opposition”.
I give the Unz Review, and by inference Mr. Unz, great credit for allowing ALL viewpoints to prosper and flourish.

I see John Engelman is polluting this site with his jewish supremacy bs…good job, John…I guess polluting Amren wasn’t good enough…

People should not have children they cannot afford to raise properly.

Jared Taylor, of American Renaissance, gave me the web address for this data:

———-

RACE, INTELLIGENCE, AND THE BRAIN: THE ERRORS AND
OMISSIONS OF THE ‘REVISED’ EDITION OF S. J. GOULD’S
THE MISMEASURE OF MAN (1996)
J. Philippe Rushton
Department of Psychology, University of Western Ontario. London, Ontario N6A 5C2, Canada

The average IQ for African-Americans was found to be lower than those for Latino-, White-, Asian-, and Jewish-Americans (85, 89, 103, 106, and 115, respectively, pp. 273-278). Failure to mention these data fosters the false belief that IQ tests are not predictive and are biased in favor of North Europeans.

http://www.blc.arizona.edu/courses/schaffer/182/Eugenics/Rushton%20on%20Mismeasure.pdf

———-

We need more Jews to take well paying jobs that require superior intelligence. As computer technology continues to increase the relationship between intelligence and income the wealth and power of the Jews will increase.

The United States gives Israel money to buy weapons from American companies. Germany gave money in reparations for the what the Nazis took; while this did boost Israelis economy significantly, I’d point out many countries were provided free money without having positive economic impacts. Israel is hardly dependent on foreign aid for its economy to survive and while it does have its dysfunctional aspects, it is not in danger of turning into a 3rd world country unless you count Latin America and Eastern Europe as 3rd world.

Don’t confuse Ashkenazim in the United States for Ashkenazim in Israel or Sephardic in Israel. For example Ashkenazim in the US like Muslims while Sephardics in Israel (who were expelled from the Islamic world in 1947) really, really hate them.

The biggest difference is the Ashkenazim diaspora population is dying. Below replacement birthrates combined with extremely high rates of out marriage means in a few generations it will be entirely gone. If its actions don’t make long term sense, that is because it doesn’t have a long term survival to look forward to and is only carrying about the now.

Breedist.

Feminism is a disease of affluence. When the affluence goes away, so will feminism and birth rates will rise.

Stop blaming Jews for what you dislike about the United States. The Ashkenazim are the most superior race in existence.

Good lord are you for real? Without the billions of dollars and special privileges provided to Israel by the U.S. and Germany it would sink into third world status. Israel isn’t even in the top 10 nations with highest I.Q.’s.

Jewish power is real and it’s not a force for good. For all of its supposed superiority it can only win by cheating and heavy handed tactics. Its power rests on pathological lying about virtually everything. The internet circumvents their lies hence their campaign to enact hate speech laws and deplatform whites who oppose them.

Don’t ever forget that you Jews need whites, but we whites don’t need Jews.

I meant “supplement” not “supply,” and “does not exist.” Sorry. I must have been feeling especially obnubilated yesterday morning. And while I’m wasting the reader’s time with “by the way’s,” let me add another. A meme the world greatly needs is “The Simpson Defense.” I’m speaking of Bart, not O. J. That is, “Don’t blame me! I didn’t do it! It was like that when I got here!” Bart spoke with the utmost epistemological and juridical rigor (or whatever kind of rigor it was) when he spoke those words, and if we draw abuse by noting racial differences, then the irrefutability of the Simpson Defense should be enough to demolish our abuser and even make his head explode.

their only flaws are below replacement birth rates

LOL, I’d say “having no future” is a pretty large flaw.

Hey White guys, he gave you a four-step plan with which to conduct the future…

1)Eat your treatment
2)Like it
3)Thank them for it
4)Ask for more!

How many of you cosign?

We really aren’t. If you break down the IQ stats, we have visual-spatial IQ at 90; we are pretty much tied with the lowest scoring white group. Jews are superior in verbal IQ and math; around 106 and 108.

Personality-wise Jews score higher in agreeableness, sociopathy (it doesn’t mean all Jews are sociopaths although the percentage is higher, it means increased willingness to take risk and lower levels of empathy) and neuroticism as well as extremely high in clannishness and mental illness.

In short the Jews aren’t a superior race, but an optimized one with a tight group of traits that are highly rewarded right now. If the situation changes then the specialization will backfire horribly.

Honestly, Japanese or Finns are the best contenders for superior race. Smart, functional, societies not committing mass suicide- their only flaws are below replacement birth rates but that is definitely temporary given the way things are trending.

”Racially” superior…

You mean ”relijeaously”…

What the marauders feel is contempt for Europe. It is rich and advanced but has no will to say NO.

“Don’t feed the savages” is good advice. But it is ‘racist’, so keep feeding them, and more will come with utter contempt. And why would law enforcement at street level do anything when fish rots from the head? The elites ordered them not to use ‘excessive’ force.

Migrants storm into Europe, this isn't immigration – it's an invasion. pic.twitter.com/yFdTEUysiW

— Mark Collett (@MarkACollett) August 10, 2017

Jews prevail because they are racially superior.

Stop blaming Jews for what you dislike about the United States. The Ashkenazim are the most superior race in existence. As intelligence becomes more important to our computer dominated economy the wealth and power of the Jews will increase. Get used to it. You can’t change it.

[Choose a single Handle and stick with it. Sockpuppetry using multiple handles is prohibited and will get all your comments trashed.]

Race realism? Don’t separate out the biological bases for male/female differences. THIS topic has not gotten off the runway yet as far as public discussion and policy considerations.

If, as seems most likely, the vast majority of those interested in this topic are resolute in discussing it only privately and not publicly—then, a sense of how rooted the interest is will not come from coverage of annual Conferences, etc., but by rather careful interviewing and such assessments as the number of contacts to the AR website and to those few other web sources discussing the facts of human bio-diversity (that includes, also, btw, the biological bases of human differences between males and females ). By all indications, the vast majority of literate adults recognizing the importance of this topic are resolute in their determination only to “whisper about it”. Knowing with any degree of confidence “just what the hell is going on” is not something that has yet been accomplished. There is, in fact, every reason to sense that there may be a sort of “macro-sense” among able humans that this is a topic more dangerous now to confront than it is to defer it in the hope of an emergent better social climate (not necessarily within the USA, btw) within which it could be emergent with less risk and more promise of fruitful results. China may very well afford a far better climate for such emergence than will the U.S.

Let’s not get our hopes up. Race denialism will be around for a while yet.

In any struggle, one must look for the soft spots, the vulnerabilities, the Achilles heel.

It’s like a boxing match can be grueling and go the distance if a boxer just tries to wear the other guy out. But if the opponent is hit right-on-the-button, he can go down in the first round.

It’s like STAR WARS. If the Rebels tried to blow up the Death Star piecemeal by piecemeal, it’d take forever. So, what did they do? They shot volleys into some hole that carried the lasers all the way to the main reactor and POW!!!

Or, it’s like kicking someone in the nuts. Even a big hulking guy will fall to the ground after OW MY BALLS.

It’s like David took out Goliath with a rock to the head. So simple. Most Jews were scared and intimidated by the sheer size of Goliath. David just focused on the head. Take out the head, and the body will fall. Indeed, Jews understood this in the 20th century, which is why they came to dominate psychiatry. Understand the MIND of your enemy and then manipulate it. And gain control of finance and media that controls what people read, see, and hear.

Or consider Samson and Delilah, a pretty fun movie. Sure, Samson is a tough guy and all, but his final act was more brain than brawn. He aimed for the pillars. He needed to take down just two pillars to bring everything else down. The whole structure of the Philistine castle depended on those pillars. It was like removing the keystone.

Mexicans think only of quantity. Their idea of reconquista is to overwhelm with numbers. They may succeed, but it takes time and lots and lots of people.
In contrast, Jews were only 2% of the population but fundamentally changed America and brought down white gentile power. How? They aimed for the Achilles Heel of white morality steeped in Christian Guilt and Anglo conceit of dignified fair play. If Anglos were like a bunch of Italians, things might have been different. Anglos might have confronted Jews like Nicky Santoro in CASINO. But because Anglos liked to come across as clean and noble, Jews could pick apart their hypocrisy and make Anglos feel shamefaced.

Anyway, that’s what Race Fact-ism must do. It must look for the soft spot of Race Anti-Factism.
What are its main vulnerabilities? And not just empirical or theoretic/intellectual weaknesses but moral and emotional weaknesses? After all, the main thrust of Race Anti-Factism is moralistic, quasi-spiritual, (self)righteous, and redemptive(of ‘racism’). It makes people feel respectable, righteous, morally superior, and holier than cow.
Now, more facts revealed by DNA studies will prove race is real. But how can the emotional-moral-spiritual core of Race Anti-Factism be gutted out? What is its Achilles Heel? Every advantage comes with a disadvantage. It’s like a boxer must adjust his own style in relation to the opponent, esp if fighting a southpaw.

What are the moral-emotional underpinnings of Race Anti-Factism? And how is it flawed and fallible? And how can it be turned against itself if possible?

I would say one of the most useful is the idea of BAMMAMA or Blacks are more muscular and more aggressive, a fact that is so easy to observe in sports, crime, and etc. It overturns the victim dynamic of ‘anti-racism’.

Emphasizing this fact and showing that it victimizes not only whites but other non-blacks can change the paradigm. Also, it makes blacks the thuggish oppressors. Also, after so many decades of rap, blacks cannot deny that they wallow in thug culture and arrogance.

BAMMAMA makes whites the victims of blacks. It also justifies the argument that whites need safe space from tougher and meaner blacks. Esp white males can have psychological health only when safe from blacks. Manhood is important to straight men, and white men can’t have it with ghastly Negroes around.

Another soft underbelly of Anti-Factists who push diversity is the fact that diversity has been the product of imperialism and not only by whites(mainly in ‘Latin America’ ). North Africa was invaded forever by so many. And Central Asia too.
So, diversity is the product of violence and aggression.

Another thing. The notion that people need to come to America to enjoy diversity is bunkum(and homomania is bung-kum). If diversity were rare and existed only in the US, that argument might make sense. But diversity is a dime-a-dozen around the world. There is so much diversity in Central Asia, North Africa, South/Southeast Asia, and Latin America. If diversity is so great, people should move there. Or people there should stay put since they got wonderful diversity. If diversity is so great, why are they trying to move to less diverse EU or white parts of US or Canada?

To improve US, Canada, and Europe with diversity? But diversity messed up much of the world. Also, it’s obvious diversity made nations like Sweden much worse

I reference the fascinating interview Jared Taylor did of Arthur Jensen–a quarter of a century ago.
What should influence our judgment is the social-emotional health of the society within which we expect the huge public discussion and policy debate to take place re bio-diversity realism. The facts of science are not of chief importance. What is critical is the social-emotional health of the society within which “the Great Debate/Discussion” is to take place. America , since the interview, has become more and more mainly characterized by egoism and hedonism. It does present one hell of a question mark as to whether a great debate about human bio-diversity should take place here as distinct, say, from China or Russia or France. Jared Taylor , brilliant though he be, has gone on and on for a quarter of a century without a stark confrontation of just what it is that is opposing American Renaissance and why the AR aims have, frankly, gotten nowhere.

Race realism is starting to gain currency in the mainstream, but I hope Derb doesn’t think the Jewish occupied government is simply going to throw its hands up in despair and grudgingly accept race realism and all that that will entail for their nefarious, race replacement (of whites) agenda. On the contrary, they are busily seeking ways and means to deprive pro-white race realists of platforms for exercising their first amendment rights and if the Democrats ever regain Congress and the oval office kiss the first amendment goodbye via “hate speech” laws that will only be enforced against whites who refuse to embrace race denialism. They know they are losing the debate and losing badly, so they’ll know resort to discrimination, tyranny and repression.

Already the Jewish led radical left employ the use of proxies like antifa to harass and threaten pro-whites of various stripes and even half hearted race realist conservatives like Ann Coulter. And they are increasingly resorting to naked violence to intimidate apostates to anti-racism and political correctness.

Race realists pat themselves on the back in mocking race denialists, but generally they deny and downplay the Jewish question and avoid discussing it in any depth, so they’re simply denialists of another sort. Some disingenuously claim Jews are just another branch of the white race instead of a distinct race of people with group traits and characteristics that, with few exceptions, will forever make them incompatible with Europeans.

Ultimately, this battle cannot be won unless and until Jewish power is acknowledged and confronted.

Fortunately, cladistics isn’t quite so arbitrary, but is constrained by pragmatic considerations like coherence and parsimony.

When was the last time two Bulldogs had a Poodle pup?

Who are these morons?

Create your own Race™

Select a distinguishing characteristic. Be as precise or imprecise as to how you define this trait as you like.
Ignore all contributing factors to human development. Assume those to be inert or controlled for
Take a selection of members of homo sapien sapiens fitting that general criterion. Assume it is independent and heterozygous
Run a random sampling distribution of that population according to hastily acquired group of questionable metrics derived from arbitrary tasks and or performance of whichever feat you like as many times as it takes for something to deviate from the mean (itself established by record-setting observations of Caucasians performing the aforementioned feat in another setting)

Congratulations, you discovered a new human race subrace

Race denialism became the official consensus during and after the Second World War. After learning about the Holocaust fewer people wanted to believe that racial differences mattered, or that they even existed.

This is known as the “guilt by association” fallacy.

Major premise: The Nazis believe that racial differences matter.

Minor premise: The Nazis are evil.

Conclusion: Therefore racial differences do not matter.

The reason this is a fallacy is because the Nazis believed a lot of things that are true. For example, Hitler believed that 9 x 9 = 81. This does not mean that 9 x 9 not = 81.

It is ironic that the Nazi effort to exterminate the most superior race in existence led to the belief that there are no inferior races.

Another effect of the Second World War was to improve feelings about Negroes. Most American Negroes had participated loyally in the war effort. More whites had difficulty understanding why black combat veterans should not be served in Southern restaurants.

I applaud this effect. Nevertheless, we should not allow our likes and dislikes to influence our judgment of what is true and false.

I feel tempered optimism about the future of race realism. As the Second World War fades from living memory, discoveries in genetics as well as the persistence of race gaps in average ability and behavior will make it more difficult to deny that racial differences are important and biological.