Is it possible to know the email of Dr Jeremy Cooper? I would like to contact him regarding Education failures. Thanks.

You are looking at this in the wrong context.

North Korea is a shining example of the genetic basis for IQ. Despite crushing sanctions and isolationism under a communist totalitarian regime crushing GDP and causing widespread malnourishment (horrendously negative environmental vectors), the country has been able to create a vibrant nuclear energy program, perfect satellite and ballistic missile technology, and assemble one of the strongest computer hacking forces in the world. All of this on a GDP per capital much less than most of Africa.

What black African nation can boast of domestically produced intercontinental ballistic missile technology and nuclear energy?

Dear MarkinLA

Thank you for your opinion. I will try to take your advice and hope bit by bit to improve my reasoning ability. I would like to say, incidentally, that I do think you would score very well on a test of vituperative aptitude.

Small snap shot. The country richest longest is China! Quite fitting first female Fields Medal Winner is Iranian. The country has schools encouraging gifted girls. Oh and did you know Iranians have topped the innovation awards for women competition for several years? First time in 2008!

It is all about encouraging intelligence. The first student to do 4 triposes in Cambridge in 5 years was an Indian student. His triposes were in Mathematics (he was a Wrangler), Engineering (called Mechanical Science then), Sciences and Languages. He was especially gifted in Maths (also did M Phil in Math with distinction before he left Cambridge) and was a friend of Einstein.

So Harvard is the only university using the SAT or ACT? Why do you resort to cherry picking one irrelevant example as though that proves something when I am talking about the population in general? There seems to be something missing in your ability to think logically. Maybe you didn’t do too well on the Math portion of the SAT and still hold a grudge.

For example, when I say that high school grades were near useless for determining admissions to highly selective universities, you give an example which says exactly the same thing but you can’t see it. You just rotate it a little logically by saying Harvard was trying to see if they could admit a diamond in the rough.

The rest of your rambling was just a bunch of irrelevant nonsense with regard to the purpose of standardized testing for college admissions. Harvard and it’s unique goals for the admission process have nothing to do with the general idea behind using standardized tests.

The result of the top universities relying on SAT tests to select students for admission is that entrants to the top US universities don’t need to know anything at all. But they’re really, really bright!

Writing this just makes you look foolish. I hope you can see this.

I think saying this makes you seem a bit silly, actually.

You seem to think that Harvard and other such places are somehow concerned to have a merit based admissions process. But nothing could be further from the truth. What they want are:

(a) kids of the elite, kids who have the right connections, the right manners, and know how to dress properly. They, after all, are the people who, on becoming senile and sentimental, are going to kick back more billions to the university foundation.

and (b) the odd few dozen phenoms from the backwoods as a sort of leaven to the loaf.

How the Hell the latter are selected really doesn’t matter. There are tens of thousands of them who would do. But it’s easier to administer a machine scored IQ test than mark a proper exam — you know, maybe thousands of words of essays on each paper.

Certainly Harvard is never going to have a meritocratic selection process which gives some nobody from Arkansas an equal chance with the daughter of a senator or a hedge fund manager. The odd intelligent pleb can come from anywhere, anyhow. In the US there are 20,000 of them with an IQ (to take that questionable measure) of more than 140 graduating from high school every year. Any couple of hundred of them will be as good as another, so far as Harvard is concerned.

who lacked the advantage of attendance at a private prep school

Silly, stupid me assuming this meant that there was a huge variation in the quality of high schools. You seem to have a flaw in your general thinking where you have this all-or-nothing belief system.

as if all the public schools in the US were crap

This is one extreme which I never asserted. and this is the other.

lacked the advantage of attendance at a private prep school

Everybody knows there is a huge variation in the quality of public high schools around the country. That is why people pay so much to live in certain areas to get their kids in those schools.

The result of the top universities relying on SAT tests to select students for admission is that entrants to the top US universities don’t need to know anything at all. But they’re really, really bright!

Writing this just makes you look foolish. I hope you can see this.

You seem to have forgotten that the universities started using the SAT and ACT because the high school grades were so useless as a way to determine admissions

What’s the point in debating someone who begins by asserting flatly what is simply false. SAT tests were introduced by James Conant of Harvard University with the intention that they would identify bright students who lacked the advantage of attendance at a private prep school and who were thus supposed to be disadvantaged in traditional academic selection procedures as if all the public schools in the US were crap, which is absurd.

The result of the top universities relying on SAT tests to select students for admission is that entrants to the top US universities don’t need to know anything at all. But they’re really, really bright!

Yes, the European leadership has been as bloody stupid as its intellectuals have been creative. When they arrived 400 years ago, the dopey Dutch had South Africa pretty much to themselves apart from a few hundred thousand hunter-gatherer Kung tribesmen, but the settlers (especially the British out for gold and diamonds and financed by the Rothschilds) encouraged millions of Africans from the North to enter the territory as cheap labor. Now the cheap labor owns the country.

The European settlers in the US were lucky that British reformers interrupted the slave trade, otherwise, the US would not be 10% African but close to 100%. As it is the slaves own theCaribbean.

Now the stupid Brits and French and Germans are bringing in cheap labor by the million to their own countries while suppressing their own fertility by imposing every known form of sexual perversion on their own children as part of the compulsory school curriculum. They call it sex “education.” Even the Jews in Britain are under pressure to submit to the LGBT mind-bending school agenda. As the result, large parts of Britain have already fallen to the cheap labor. Soon the cheap labor, African, Asian, Middle Eastern, and East European, will rule the country. The cheap Muslim labor already rules London, the Mayor Sadiq Khan asserting his right to prevent a visit to Britain by the US President.

If any race on the face of the planet goes extinct because of mentally deficiency, it will be the Europeans who are too stupid even to fuck to any effect, while they blather inanely about their superior IQs.

In practice, SAT and achievement test scores are so highly correlated that SAT

Of course they are because they are both timed so intelligence is a big part of how people score. Intelligence is not a measure of what you know it is a measure of how fast you can come up with the answer. Since both tests are timed, smarter people will generally come up with more answers given the time to go through the questions since there is a mixture of simple questions and complex ones where you have to draw conclusions from the stated facts.

While listening to Jordan Peterson that you linked to it occurred to me there would be no jobs for people like him or Charles Murray or Jensen or Lynn if we lived in a society with high degree of ethnic and cultural homogeneity. It all began when English gentlemen and French entrepreneurs came up with the get rich quick schemes of growing sugar cane, tobacco, cotton and coffee by bringing black slaves to the New World.

You seem to have forgotten that the universities started using the SAT and ACT because the high school grades were so useless as a way to determine admissions – especially to the most competitive campuses. The reason why they are going away from standardized tests is not because they are not doing what they are supposed to do – that is predict who is likely to succeed in their freshman year of college but because they do the job all too well and shine on a light on how deficient many of the affirmative action admits are. In other words, we are getting rid of the SATs because they work and get in the way of diversity.

As for your silly anecdotes, I keep talking about averages and you keep bringing up silly examples like Einstein. Do you not see how stupid it is to bring up one person when talking about the entire population? How many valedictorians from minority high schools that started out as physics, mathematics, or even pre-med majors at an Ivy League or flagship state campus downgraded their major to sociology or victim studies. I bet for every Einstein there were hundreds (if not thousands) of AA downgrades.

As for those other parameters you mention, NOBODY can measure them so barking about them makes no sense. You can only determine those after years of a person’s life and we don’t have 10 years of serious academic history for every person to determine if they should be admitted to college. High school is not serious academics. So we have to use the best available tools we have.

I don’t get your point when it comes to achievement testing? I took the SAT and achievement tests at the same time and consider them to be one and the same. Are you trying to say that some people score extremely well on the achievement tests and so poorly on the general SAT that they don’t get in college? The admissions people look at both of them. I am sure that if somebody scored 800 on the SAT math and 800 on the achievement math that the admissions people would overlook a 500 English so I don’t see that there is an issue here. I am not sure what your point is because if there was no SAT and only the achievement tests, the AA admits who are deficient would still show themselves to be deficient via the achievement tests. In addition, the English achievement test is usually a required test by most (if not all) maj0r universities.

The fact is that neither academic achievement tests nor SAT tests do a good job of predicting university performance, which is determined largely by motivation.

And you know this how? Oh that’s right, you asserted it, so it must be true. The SATs and achievement tests do a very good job of matching a student with his peers. It doesn’t matter how much “motivation” somebody has if he isn’t as smart as everybody else in the class. He will likely realize that no matter how much time he spends on the subject, he just cannot keep up (unless it is at places like Ivy’s or Stanford where everybody gets an A). This is why you have so many downgraded majors – especially in the AA crowd.

All the motivation in the world could not make Bill Gates a mathematician. He realized that at Harvard when as bright as he was in high school (and he was no slouch) he was in classes with guys who could talk to the professor at the professor’s level. So he became a programmer.

Three anecdotes invalidates invalidates the millions of people where standardized testing did a pretty good job of scoring their academic talent.

They’re not anecdotes, they are facts.

And in saying that “standardized testing did a pretty good job …” you are making an assertion of what has to be proved, namely that IQ tests (I presume by standardized testing you mean IQ tests) do a better job than old fashioned achievement tests.

But do they?

You cite no evidence.

According to Charles Murray:

In theory, the SAT and the achievement tests measure different things. In the College Board’s own words from its website, “The SAT measures students’ verbal reasoning, critical reading, and skills,” while the achievement tests “show colleges their mastery of specific subjects.” In practice, SAT and achievement test scores are so highly correlated that SAT scores tell the admissions office little that it does not learn from the achievement test scores alone.

The fact is that neither academic achievement tests nor SAT tests do a good job of predicting university performance, which is determined largely by motivation.

But like other IQ-ists you seem unable to grasp that IQ/SAT tests don’t measure every aspect of intelligence or even, as some would say, the most important, that being, according to Albert Einstein, imagination. Einstein did relatively poorly at Zurich’s ETH, where he was denied entry to graduate school, hence his job at the patent office. But Einstein did have imagination, which an IQ-ist has to dismiss as of no significance since he has no way of measuring it. Likewise, he has no way of measuring judgement, wit, or many other traits that contribute to any comprehensive assessment of intelligence.

Three anecdotes invalidates the millions of people where standardized testing did a pretty good job of scoring their academic talent. You people don’t seem to get it that just because something isn’t perfect doesn’t mean that it has no value.

Previous academic performance, huh? You mean as in all those affirmative action scholars at Ivy league schools who end up with sociology or black studies degrees? Many were “valedictorians” at their school.

Funny that you think previous academic success (especially in High school) is better than the SAT.

It is a very toxic idea that requires a significant level of intellectual effort to refute it.

Public misunderstanding about intelligence and IQ results largely if not entirely from the way psychologists have redefined intelligence to conform with what they can measure. They have incorporated the lamppost fallacy in their understanding of intelligence, and it is from that, I believe, that all the toxic consequences follow. I have attempted to explain more fully in a comment under James Thompson’s latest post.

IQ-ism is among the most dangerous, stupid and implausible fields of bogus science yet devised.

It is a very toxic idea that requires a significant level of intellectual effort to refute it. That’s why people who are less intellectually gifted and less intellectually honest to adhere to strict rigors of scientific discovery process are more likely to be seduced by it.

Read this:

http://www.unz.com/jthompson/genetics-genetic-groups-intelligence/

Ha! “wits” that’s a good word for brains.

It conjures up so much more of what we really understand by intelligence than a pathetic verbal/math IQ test score.

It makes one think of real geniuses like Shakespeare, Sam Johnson, and Mark Twain and of John Dryden’s line:

“Great wits are sure to madness near allied, and thin partitions do their bounds divide.”

How absurd all of them would have considered the obsession with IQ test scores unrelated to knowledge, sagacity, humor or imagination.

A Feminist Proposal.

Some people want open borders and some closed. Say yes to both. The answer is simple: open borders for female immigration only, closed borders for male. Look at the advantages!
- Less crime; women commit less crime.
- Less terrorism; women commit less terrorism.
- More sisterhood.
- More cool female scientists as in Hidden Figures.
- Great for the economy, cheap workers and a whole lot more shopping!
- Foreign women can easily and permanently escape abusive partners!
- Lots more women to go into STEM, the US Marines, garbage collection and other areas needing diversity.

It’s a culture fair test and you obviously didn’t read the page.

would likely survive in the jungle a lot longer than you

That’s probably true. You’re clearly winning this battle of wits…

“Culture-free IQ test.”

Where’s the evidence that that particular test is culture free?

In fact, it obviously not.

My grand-daughter does stuff like this on Nana’s iPad. Does some kid from Guatamala have the same opportunity to play such games?

To someone straight from the jungle, such a test would be surely be meaningless, yet that person would likely survive in the jungle a lot longer than you.

Here you go – a Culture Fair IQ Test suitable for every cultural backgorund:

https://iq-research.info/en

Also, Nobel Prizes are both political (not just the Peace Prize) and extremely imprecise in showing the capability of any single person. Maybe the 125 IQ (which is pretty good) guy won because he didn’t have a girlfriend

That’s Richard Feynman your talking about. I doubt if he was for very long short of a girl friend. He was also perhaps America’s greatest native-born theoretical physicist.

As for the other two, the one’s not bright enough for Terman’s study of gifted individuals, Shockley was responsible for the development of the transistor, surely the most transformative technological development of the 20th century.

As for the other guy, apparently his work led to the discovery of many elementary particles, which physicists probably think was quite important.

What is fascinating about your response is the IQists totally blinkered understanding of intelligence. Apparently, it is some mystical unitary thing that is supposed to be measured with a battery of math and verbal tests, the results of which are not only poorly correlated one with another but which are highly dependent on cultural background, socio-economic status, and coaching, and which ignore a vast array of central nervous system properties which are at the root of most human genius.

In particular, IQists do not even pretend that their tests measure imagination, judgement, or the less traditionally academic abilities such as the hand-eye coordination of the surgeon and the artist, or the hand-ear coordination of the virtuoso violinist.

What are you suggesting – that the Guatemalans (average IQ 79) should be imported if they did well in Guatemalan schools?

I’m not suggesting you import any Guatamalans. What’s wrong with Americans? What’s with importing anyone? If so many Americans weren’t competed out of jobs by Guatamalans, etc., they’d more likely have a job, get married and have children, you know, like the next generation of Americans.

I’m not going to use annuities.

MarkinLA demanded that I offer a measurable parameters for success? He didn’t think I did. But I did.

Using IQ to keep people out of the US will have the same effects as using the SAT for keeping people out of college. It will mean that for every person who could have excelled at college but didn’t test well 1000 who should have been kept out of college were rightfully rejected. You do understand that we are talking about the average person, not one cherry picked example.

I would rather we keep both the 1000 and the 1 out of the US rather than let in the 1000 and the 1, given the costs to society of the 1000.

Perfect analogy. Well said.

Well, wouldn’t the previous academic performance reflect the IQ + interest + conscientiousness? I’m not surprised if that’s a better predictor than raw IQ. The problem is that you can’t accurately measure interest, conscientiousness or… imagination. What are you suggesting – that the Guatemalans (average IQ 79) should be imported if they did well in Guatemalan schools?

Also, Nobel Prizes are both political (not just the Peace Prize) and extremely imprecise in showing the capability of any single person. Maybe the 125 IQ (which is pretty good) guy won because he didn’t have a girlfriend or maybe he read the right paper at the right time. Who knows. The IQ is engine power and acceleration but the driver might be lazy and the race is happening in the forest anyway.

And I believe it is now generally accepted that previous academic performance is as good as, or better than, IQ in predicting university level performance, which is not surprising since the arts, at least, allow the expression of both judgement and imagination, neither of which are evaluated in an IQ test, although both are required in at least some academic fields.

Do you have any better measurable parameters for success?

I mentioned three physics Nobel Prize winners who didn’t make the grade based on IQ. You don’t consider a Nobel Prize in physics a measure of success?

Do you have any better measurable parameters for success? Didn’t think so.

There is no aggrandizement of IQ testing, it is just the best tool we have for predicting people’s likelihood of succeeding in intellectual pursuits.

Not a very good tool, judging by Richard Feynman’s score of 125, and the fact that in selecting young geniuses for long-term study, Terman managed to screen out the only Nobel Prize winners among the candidates: Shockley and Alvarez (both in the supposedly high IQ field of physics).

IQist believe that intelligence is a unitary property of mind, which is obvious bunk. Look at the correlation coefficients among sub-tests of the WAIS etc. They average about 0.3, i.e., on average, variation in score on any one sub-test accounts for less than 10% (r squared) of the variation in any other sub-test.

And IQ tests don’t even attempt to measure judgement or imagination: not necessary for success in intellectual pursuits being the assumption, I suppose.

Disproof of the reality of g, general intelligence, is available to anyone willing to wear a blindfold for a week or two. They will find their hearing and kinesthetic senses enhanced as their idle visual cortex is put to other uses. Savant genius is almost certainly the result of similar but much more massive reassignment of neural resources: hence the coexistence of genius in a restricted realm with general mental deficiency. Less extreme imbalance is evident in many, perhaps most, cases of real genius.

IQ-ism is among the most dangerous, stupid and implausible fields of bogus science yet devised.

Well you read the discredited Stephen Jay Gould, no wonder you don’t make any sense. There is no aggrandizement of IQ testing, it is just the best tool we have for predicting people’s likelihood of succeeding in intellectual pursuits. Nothing is perfect and we have plenty of opportunity in the US for people to prove the IQ test didn’t work as well as we hoped in their case.

Using IQ to keep people out of the US will have the same effects as using the SAT for keeping people out of college. It will mean that for every person who could have excelled at college but didn’t test well 1000 who should have been kept out of college were rightfully rejected. You do understand that we are talking about the average person, not one cherry picked example.

I would rather we keep both the 1000 and the 1 out of the US rather than let in the 1000 and the 1, given the costs to society of the 1000.

By all means, if you have better parameters for predicting success, spit it out. We can’t measure things like determination, conscientiousness, or integrity. And we especially can’t measure them under stresses like an immigrant not being able to get the kind of job he wants.

Read Stephen Jay Gould’s “The mismeasure of man” for a more informed review of problems caused by the unfounded aggrandizement of the IQ test for ranking purposes. IQ has its uses, but only as the most rudimentary starting point for comprehensive analysis.

The above said, trying to use IQ as a method for keeping “undesirables” out of the country is deceptive and open to well-earned derision. However, keeping out individuals based upon intractable religious and cultural differences certainly has a valid point.

Because i am not pretending to be somebody else. I also said he could use anon instead of a db cooper.

‘us’ white nationalists? you are no white nationalist or even white.

Stop pretending.

Indian crime rates are only “low” because Indians do not report crime like we do in the west. Crimes against dalits are not counted as a crime, and people in India do not report crime as India is a corrupt country.

In America, Indians do not do violent crime as Indians are a physically weak race and would probably get beat up by even the women of other races.

Indians are big time scammed though and do a lot of white collar crime.

Keep in kind that India is the rape capital of the world, you can see this by google rape ibdia and see how many stories come up. This is affirmed by how Indians view rape which is absolutely barbaric.

Also Thomm, no one believes you are not an Indian you Hindu National. It is possible le you live in a close country like bangledesh or pakistan, you are definately of the same low iq brown skinned type.

He is not white. He is using a white name to attack indians, so that indians attack whites in return.

I see IQ analysis as subjective and not objective.What looks smart to some culture is
absolutely stupid to others.Africans generally are more strategic(planning for the final show) as opposed to the “gifted race ” always planning the next move,and next move towards a disastrous ending.

If your very high IQ gives you the ability to destroy,massacre and plunder other people’s resources,culture and civilization; If your very high IQ allows you to kill 100 million humans in two world wars; If your very high IQ allows you to pollute and destroy the earth that you yourself live in; If your very high IQ allows you equate same sex marriages with traditional ones;and finally, If your very high IQ gives you the supreme technology to manufacture nuclear weapons and completely destroy each others with..

Then,as an African,in the final end, I will be a proud human with my low IQ.

Still no answer on why India, with all its supposed brainpower, can’t lift itself out of 4th world status

For the same reason that Ukraine and Moldova can’t (both of which are just as poor as India in per capita GDP). Got it?

Plus, we are talking about the USA, where Indians are the highest-income group of all. That is why I admire them. Your brain is too limited to think about why they do well here, even if their home country is poor (for now).

Oh, and I am still not Indian, and you are still a faggot. Don’t blame others for the fact that you are a stupid faggot; that is what your boyfriend is for.

Heh heh heh heh

Indian crime rates (like that of all Asians) are lower than white crime rates. Hillary Clinton is very white, y’know.

Then again, a WN wigger like yourself can’t understand concepts like percentages and proportions. That is why you keep reminding successful whites about how we need to keep you out of the better parts of society.

The most common form of Indian nationalism is hindu nationalism. And ‘hinduism’ is basically segregation/caste system that aims to keep the upper castes/Brahmins in elevated position. You’re a dalit sewage ‘diver’? Well, too bad, you had done evil in your previous lives, so here you’re reincarnated into ‘untouchable’ misery. It’s called ‘dharmic spirituality’. Whatever good for the Brahmins/upper-castes would be considered good for the Indians, and without doubt, India is probably the most elitist country on Earth. Since the brown Aryan Brahmins always consider themselves sun tanned cousins of white Aryans and America is a wealthy country, so the majority of the more educated Brahmins want to immigrate to US(IT work is a good route), even it’s obviously ‘Brain Drain’ detrimental to the well being of India and the average Indians.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgwVqKkNagqFWl-MnDHrYJtGHY-G7Y7ORPk_PgpPhsLPRuCVo2

not as a ranking system for the social stratification of society.

Nobody not even the most strident HBDer thinks this. Why do you people always resort to these exaggerations? However, there does need to be some way to try and determine what a person’s innate talent is and how best to utilize it. Not only does it benefit society but it gives the individual a better chance at maximizing his earnings potential. If somebody scores at the very bottom of the portion of an IQ test that correlates with mathematical ability, why are we trying to get that kid to take Algebra, Geometry, and Trigonometry and get them into college?

Right now we have IQ tests. If you think you have a better way to determine the potential of people then have at it and get very, very rich if you succeed.

Google “indian fraudsters in usa” and see the list. Here is one just got busted:

San Jose Businesswoman Pleads Guilty To Tech Worker Visa Fraud
Defendant Submitted False Contracts, Forged Signatures of Cisco Employees to Federal Government In Scheme to Obtain H-1B Visas Under False Pretenses
SAN JOSE, CA – A San Jose businesswoman pleaded guilty in federal court today to three counts of visa fraud, announced U.S. Attorney Brian J. Stretch Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Special Agent in Charge Ryan L. Spradlin.  The guilty plea was accepted by the Honorable Lucy H. Koh, U.S. District Judge.
In pleading guilty, Sridevi Aiyaswamy, 50, of San Jose, admitted that between April 2010 and June 2013 she made numerous false statements, and submitted over 25 fraudulent documents, to the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for the purpose of obtaining H-1B non-immigrant classifications for skilled foreign workers.  Acting as a petitioner on behalf of foreign worker beneficiaries, Aiyaswamy falsely represented in I-129 petitions that the foreign worker beneficiaries would be working at Cisco, an information technology and networking company in San Jose, Calif.  Aiayswamy further submitted counterfeit statements of work with forged signatures as back-up documentation to the I-129 petitions.  In fact, at the time she submitted these documents to USCIS, Aiyaswamy knew that the statements regarding offers of work from Cisco for these beneficiaries were false statements, and that Cisco had not made any offers of employment regarding these individuals.   
A federal grand jury indicted Aiyaswamy on December 3, 2015, charging her with 34 counts of visa fraud, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1546(a).  Pursuant to today’s pea agreement, Aiyaswamy pleaded guilty to three of the counts of visa fraud and the government agreed to request dismissal of the remaining counts.  
Aiyaswamy is currently free on bond.  Judge Koh scheduled her sentencing for November 15, 2017, at 9:15 a.m.  The maximum statutory penalty for visa fraud is 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.  However, any sentence following conviction will be imposed by the court only after consideration of the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines and the federal statute governing the imposition of a sentence, 18 U.S.C. § 3553. 

Reference : http://techinsurgent.com/post/2017/07/23/Another-Slumdog-Slave-Trader-Gets-Busted1.aspx

Thomm and Anon are showing what it’s like to have Indians be part of your society. Pure cancer.

Indians are tribalistic and don’t focus on building value. They would rather screw someone else over which is why they are always arguing everything and focusing on trying to trump up Indian accomplishments or tearing other groups down.

Notice how Thomm keeps calling us White Nationals just because we are calling out hus Hindu Nationalism. Indians are the most SJW group out there.

Much of what passes as “IQ” is culturally determined. A good example is that immigrant Jews to the USA were routinely excluded from military service during WWI due to their low IQ test scores. As time passed, many members of this “dullard” group went on to achieve much better than average results in letters, arts, science, and life in general. Alfred Binet originally developed the IQ test to identify areas where further education was required, not as a ranking system for the social stratification of society.

Thanks. I will check it out.

I don’t think the lack of hiring H-1Bs is what hurt companies in Silicon Valley. Mostly it was the plethora of me-too companies getting whinnied out and companies riding the internet boom providing little real value who ran out of money that caused most of the failures.

Oracle, Intel, Apple, and Adobe to name a few were well established long before H-1Bs were prevalent. Silicon Valley’s business model is not based on low operating costs like most manufacturing companies.

Actually, I would argue the case from personal experience.

The strong the team the easier it is go get things done. When I was growing up in CO, the local kids were really not amenable to logic or any sort, being self-righteous and opinionated. Hopkins was better though the people were disagreeable, you could have some good talk.

The Navy was spotty, but if you could make a case, your views worked when the really senior people were listen.

Wall Street was a delight. One of my customers was the valedictorian of his Harvard class: I didn’t win all the time, but if you could make a case you had an effect.

After 911, I revived my intelligence contacts, and making a case works: again when people have ‘skin in the game’, a good case works wonder.

On the other hand where Uhuru rules the day, the outstanding are culled in the names of social peace.

There are so many good stories to tell which would challenge the cultural status quo. It is unfortunate that so many of our storytellers are believers rather than iconoclasts.

Sounds good on paper, but “message fiction” is nearly always objectionable. It’s tempting to write the next Nineteen Eighty-Four or Atlas Shrugged but the public appetite for such is amazingly small.

This will may amuse you if you have not seen it: Ken Robinson talking about the social (school) environment in the development of the imagination:

Do Schools Kill Creativity

and

Bring on the Learning Revolution

I am not an Indian, you faggot.

Stuff a sock in it. Don’t blame me for unpleasant facts about Indians and India. The fact that you’re so laser focused on Indians betrays your racial identity.

I am sick of wigger whites/WNs trying to appropriate the accomplishments of talented whites.

Yet it’s ok for you to appropriate the accomplishments of Indians and take pride in and extol their supposed virtues in America. Thomm = ignoramus and hypocrite.

Still no answer on why India, with all its supposed brainpower, can’t lift itself out of 4th world status other than to attack white nationalism just as I said. You are so predictable.

At least the others had the courage to admit they were Indians after I dragged it out of them. They were better men than you.

Less than you might think. China go raped as hard as India and Africa by European colonizers, then by their own warlords, then by the Japanese, then by the depredations of the Mao regime. But their population had what it took – cultural, genetic, whatever – to be resilient and build a high-functioning, modern nation within a couple of generations. Sub-Saharan Africa during the postcolonial era descended into the chaos of tribal rivalry it was during the precolonial era and shows little if any sign of coming out of it. India may be getting wealthier, but the legacy of the caste system is still barbaric and a drag on their ability to form a civil nation. The one area I can think of that supports your thesis is the Levant, the learned center and flower of Arabic culture that, thanks in large part to the west, has had its physical wealth destroyed, is under assault from the barbaric Wahhabism of the Arabian Peninsula, and will be dealing with the consequences for at least a generation.

The USSR was a highly literate society and its scientific and technical education became among the top in the world. The priority given to education was one thing Stalin got right. The Mao regime waged a war on China’s educational system that came to a climax during the Cultural Revolution and it took decades for it to recover.

Very interesting, Priss.

Thomm,

So what if they think of indians as inferior? Let them think like that. What do indians have to lose if they think about indians like that?

Is that you DB Cooper? Why do you have to use a western name to criticise indians. You are not a western person. Is it to make indians criticise the west? Very clever!

You have been doing this since many months.

{from your #111:{Anyway, Indians only came here recently, yet still founded companies like Sun Microsystems, …..}}

A co-founder is still one of the founders, you fool.

Plus, there is Juniper Networks, discussed above. Workday is another (one of two co-founders was Indian).

The point is, you are so desperate to denigrate the accomplishments of Vinod Kholsa saying ‘he is only one of the four co-founders’ that you expose your stupidity. You couldn’t even get an entry-level job at a reputed tech company, let alone be one of the four co-founders of it.

Even now, Indians are the CEOs of Microsoft, Google, Adobe, Sandisk, Netapp, MasterCard, PepsiCo, etc. despite being just 1% of the population. Again, you could not even get an entry-level job at such companies, so are in no position to pooh-pooh the accomplishments.

Remember, WNs tend to have negro IQs, as you have proven.

Heh heh heh heh

{What false statement? Be specific.}

Are you really that dense, or you are being deliberately obtuse?

Here:
{from your #111:{Anyway, Indians only came here recently, yet still founded companies like Sun Microsystems, …..}}

It’s called lying by omission.
Indians didn’t found Sun: one Indian was one of the 4 co-founders.
The other 3 were _not_ Indian.
And as noted, the real founders were 2 non-Indian guys.
So Indians did not found Sun. You lied hoping to create a false image of Indians’ alleged achievement, hoping nobody would check.

{Wigger : a white person with abilities and intellect more comparable to a black person. I have met many WNs, and they tend to have the same low cognitive ceiling.}

The same ‘low cognitive ceiling’ ?
Wow.

As I noted before, you appear to be living in some kind of alternative Universe.
Here is the definition of ‘wigger’:
*[TOP DEFINITION
wigger
A male caucasion, usually born and raised in the suburbs that displays a strong desire to emulate African American Hip Hop culture and style through "Bling" fashion and generally accepted "thug life" guiding principles. ]

Not only you are a hate filled delusional bigot, but you are uneducated and stupid to boot.
And….. ‘Heh heh heh heh’?
Who writes that in a post?
How old are you boy?
___________
*

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wigger

But I thought everyone was equal as a blank state!

The Indian is triggered.

No one believes you are not an Indian. We can tell by how you are acting you are an Indian and now you are just embarrassing yourself.

The problem with these Indians is that they are used to being high caste in India and with no one challenging them. But in America we don’t think much of them and it drives them crazy.

So now we have to put up with a combination of Indians trying to prove they are high caste to Americans who don’t care. And passive aggressiveness when the Hindus are put in their place.

America did not need Indians to dominate in the software space.

Its easy to say that, but do we know this for certain? The appropriate biological metaphor is the Red Queen where all of the relevant players have to keep running in order to keep up. Even with a first mover advantage, if US companies denied themselves or were denied from using cheap labor, what if another Western European country with similar IQ did? Germany? The UK? I’m familiar enough with the Silicon Valley to say that companies that didn’t play these stupid cost games often ended up being killed.

Wal-mart, for example, proved to be an overwhelming and hegemonic retail presence through its low-cost leadership, not only through Chinese imports but by abusing just about every single regulation, and even so, its a leader in its field.

This is the heartless result of capitalism, which is very much a race to the bottom. I do not, in case you wonder, advocate this. But its worthwhile to note. It screws almost everyone, including Blair’s “Native Born White American Majority Working Class” and once automation goes in full, perhaps every single living human being. And yet it will come to pass, because capitalism is the God That Exists.

I proved that you made a blatantly false statement,

What false statement? Be specific.

Outwitting you with facts is not a ‘false statement’. Then again, as a leftist, that is the tendency you often have.. (e.g. ‘Bush lied about WNDs’).

Wigger : a white person with abilities and intellect more comparable to a black person. I have met many WNs, and they tend to have the same low cognitive ceiling.

{It is funny how you want to denigrate that accomplishment, when a WN wigger like you would not even get an entry-level job at a reputed tech company.}

I proved that you made a blatantly false statement, which made you hysterical, and like all losers you are resorting to calling people names.

Not only you are hysterical and a blatant liar, but your hatred of ‘Whites’ has blinded you. I clearly wrote above that I am not ‘White’* (i.e. I am not Anglo-Saxon): my ancestry is Armenian.

And what is it with this ‘WN wigger’** you keep throwing around?
Do you even know what it means?
I doubt any of the posters above replying to your hyperbole about Indians are trying to emulate ‘behaviour and tastes attributed to African-Americans.’
Judging by the content of their other posts, I would wager quite the opposite.

________________
*
‘White’: reason I put it in quotes, is because I do not know what is meant by it when people us it. If it means Anglo-Saxon, then I am not. If means European, I am not that either. If it means Caucasian/Caucasoid, then I am.
In fact the arch-type of ‘Caucasian’ was described by the guy that classified the three major races (Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid) based on the characteristics of people of Republic of Georgia in the Caucasus. Armenia is next door.

One of the two major competing theories of where people in Europe came from is the place called Armenian Highlands (now known as Eastern Turkey) about 25,000 years ago. Although of course at that time ‘Armenians’ were just proto-Armenian and other groupings: proto-Armenians coalesced into Armenians much later. So some stayed in the Armenian Highlands and became ‘Armenian’, and others migrated to Europe.

**
[wig·ger
ˈwiɡər/Submit
noun US informal
a white person who tries to emulate or acquire cultural behaviour and tastes attributed to African-Americans.]

er.. being one of the four founders (and the second richest of them today), at a time when Indians were 0.1% of the US population (the 1980s) is something.

It is funny how you want to denigrate that accomplishment, when a WN wigger like you would not even get an entry-level job at a reputed tech company.

Heh heh heh heh

from your #111:{Anyway, Indians only came here recently, yet still founded companies like Sun Microsystems, …..}

and #159: {Sun Microsystems was even more successful at its peak}

from Wiki:
Sun founders: Andy Bechtolsheim, Bill Joy, Scott McNealy, Vinod Khosla.
So how did ‘Indians’ found Sun exactly?
One Indian, out of 4, makes it “Indians founded” in your alternative Universe?
btw: one Indian educated at Stanford, famous Indian university established by Indians, of course.

from Wiki:
[The initial design for what became Sun's first Unix workstation, the Sun-1, was conceived by Andy Bechtolsheim when he was a graduate student at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California. Bechtolsheim originally designed the SUN workstation for the Stanford University Network communications project as a personal CAD workstation. It was designed around the Motorola 68000 processor with an advanced memory management unit (MMU) to support the Unix operating system with virtual memory support. He built the first ones from spare parts obtained from Stanford's Department of Computer Science and Silicon Valley supply houses.
On February 24, 1982, Vinod Khosla, Andy Bechtolsheim, and Scott McNealy, all Stanford graduate students, founded Sun Microsystems. Bill Joy of Berkeley, a primary developer of the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD), joined soon after and is counted as one of the original founders........]

I don’t know what Khosla and McNealy contributed, but apparently Bechtolsheim and Joy were the brains, engineers, designers.
You know, the real founders.

You should move to India. A country with 1.2B of those high earning IT geniuses must be the best place in the world to live. Why are you still here? Pack your bags and go. Incredible India awaits.

Of course it is cross-checked. Otherwise a different country would be at the top each year, and African Americans would probably be near the top due to false reporting.

Plus, Jews underreport since a lot of their income is sheltered in trusts and foundation, so they may in fact be higher than Indians, but they are the only ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

The point is not that Indians are superior – they certainly are not. The point is that they are not ‘inferior’ like these WN wiggers claim, as the Indians who come to the US are not even the top Indians.

Indians are the most successful ethnic group in the US, bar none

The reported data on household income are all based on self reported surveys. There is no independent verification. Can it be trusted?

Jupiter networks was just a poor copy of Cisco. They are not creating anything that wasn’t already here.

Juniper Networks (you couldn’t even get the name right) has a market value of $11B. It would not exist if it produced no value. Sun Microsystems was even more successful at its peak. Others include Workday, etc.

Plus, you talk as if you could have founded those companies. In reality, you would not even get an entry-level job there.

The point is, Indians are the most successful ethnic group in the US, bar none. Given that white nationalists represent the bottom 20% of whites (i.e. the wigger level), there really is no overlap.

I am not an Indian, you faggot. I said that before.

But Indians are the highest-income ethnic group in the US, bar none. Higher than Jews, Chinese, Scandinavians, and English Americans. This has been true for a long time.

Hence, they outperform you by a mile (remember that a white nationalist is to successful whites what a pygmy from the Congo is to Usain Bolt)..

I am sick of wigger whites/WNs trying to appropriate the accomplishments of talented whites.

Why do the Indians need to come here anyway? Why can’t they do the work remotely?

Because then you whined about ‘outsourcing’. Make up your mind!

I fully agree that the H1-B program should be abolished. Either pay someone market wages, or don’t hire them if they are not that good.

But the misconception is that this will greatly reduce Chinese and Indian immigraiton. It will not, as most of them are not H1-Bs.

America did not need Indians to dominate in the software space.

Indians were cheaper yes, but they are also lower quality. This is a good trade if you are a CEO and want to juice your numbers, but not so good for anyone else except the Indians who come here.

Why do the Indians need to come here anyway? Why can’t they do the work remotely?

Wrong. Their talents exceed the average white male by a ton. Remember that Indian household income is almost twice that of white Americans.

You Indians are just legends in your own mind. Again, there are talented and competent Indians but you are also beneficiaries of affirmative action and aggressive employment diversity programs in hiring and promotions which helps inflate your median household income. Large companies especially hire and promote Indians since they are a minority group that outperforms blacks and Latinos.

The best you can do is acquire skills and knowledge from fields that were invented by whites and that in most cases you learned from white instructors. India and Indians haven’t created any groundbreaking inventions, technology or discoveries such as you find throughout America and Europe.

India’s average IQ is 82. You’re tied for 25th with Madagasgar and Zimbabwe. The presence of large numbers of blacks and Latinos depresses the U.S. average of 98.

https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country

And Indians aren’t too keen on using latrines even when they have access to them.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-05-12/india-access-toilets-remains-huge-problem-worst-all-women-and-girls

You still haven’t answered why the supposedly intelligent Indians can’t marshal all of their intellectual resources to lift India out of grinding poverty. I’ve posed that question to several Indians on this site and none will answer it other than to start attacking white nationalism. Must be easier to flee to a white nation then claim you are superior to the gracious and unassuming white hosts.

Then when white women reject your advances you rail against white nationalism some more.

It’s been at least 2 decades since India started its tech industry, first by doing the Y2k fix, then by outsourcing. Today, China which started going into tech much later can boast of many successful tech firms in both software and hardware, but India still doesn’t have a single tech company worth mentioning. All the large tech firms are outsourcing firms, making a living by doing back office work for Western companies. They produce zero new technology. The Chinese may have copied a lot of our technology, but at least they copied and innovated on top of it, the Indians can’t even copy properly. You can stop telling us how smart the Indians are now, those in the tech industry know better and are not buying it.

Tibetans have larger heart and lungs because they live at high altitudes…the heart and lung capacity is necessarily greater because of less oxygen at higher altitudes.

Good point about Google. There is a differences between market company value and revenue. Google revenue is 2.5 lower than that of Exxon but market value is higher. The same with Tesla. Its revenue is 25 time lower than that of GM but its market value is higher.

and Daniel Chieh

More links:

https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/so-what-gene

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/suzan-mazur/replace-the-modern-sythes_b_5284211.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3388793/

all curtesy of RaceRealist88 (see his comments under Thompson’s notes) who introduced us here to Ken Richardson.

You are welcome.

My thanks as well, will check into it.

So, if population genetics don’t exist, why do Tibetans have larger lungs and hearts? Why do white people have white skin, for that matter?

To be fair, the US would have significantly less GDP if it wasn’t for the dominance of software companies. That said, I largely agree with you – the wealth of Facebook has done absolutely nothing to help a large population of the host. Whether California makes $1 or $50 billion means nothing to a lot of Americans in flyover country. It is at best a neutral point, and at worst, something actively hostile to them.

The notion of increasing GDP would mean a lot more if real incomes were rising. The fact that GDP keeps going up but real median income keeps dropping suggests that something is off with this formula.

Dear Lord,

How could the United States have ever survived without the riches brought to us by Silicon Valley tech companies? And furthermore, how could those tech companies ever exist without CEO’s from the sub-continent? This has brought immense wealth and happiness to us flyover Americans which would not have been possible without importing a billion Indians to California. Without these Indians here to run tech companies, America would not have survived.

Thank you, Lord.

Sincerely,

flyover Americans

Thank you. I will follow the links.

Thomm is a typical Indian troll.

He criticizes us as White Nationalists but he us just a Hindu Nationalist himself.

This is typical of Indians. Trying to play the Jew game with an IQ of 82.

Sounds like Anon is a Hindu just like his friend Thomm. Sorry son, but this is not your safe space.

If you want to criticize another poster for not using his real name, why aren’t you using yours Patel?

{Those men happen to be Anglo-Protestants, but that is not their salient descriptor. Otherwise you would have the same talents. You do not. No more than a chihuahua or a pug has the physical abilities of a German Shepherd. }

What does that even mean?
What does this have to do with me?
I never claimed to be Anglo-Saxon: only an immigrant.
(of Armenian ancestry.)

Yes, the Founders were English Protestants, but it didn’t end there.
Since its founding, US has had several large waves of immigrants, overwhelmingly from Europe. (Black slaves brought here by force – separate subject). For better or worse, the sources of immigration to US changed after 1965: again, separate subject.

But we are all beneficiaries of how the country was originally founded, by whom, and populated by peoples from where.

According to 2010 census, the largest Ancestry groups in US.

49 million Germans
42 million Blacks
35 million Irish
31 million Mexican
27 million English
20 million Americans
17 million Italians
10 million Polish
9 million French
6 million Scottish
5 million Scotch-Irish
5 million American Indian or Alaska Native
5 million Dutch
4.6 million Puerto Rican
4.5 million Norwegian
4 million Swedish
3 million Chinese
3 million Russian
……….
See the picture?

Let me give you another example.
There are 5 countries founded or run by what Churchill called ‘English speaking peoples’: England, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Fairly prosperous, orderly, well run countries. Counties to where everyone and his brother wants to immigrate to. How is it that those millions of people are not beating down the doors to get into India?.

Another example: Hong Kong.
Same Chinese people, but run under English administration, English laws (contract law, property law,…) for 99 years. Even Chinese communist rulers recognized its value and largely left it alone to be run under old rules.

Don’t know how it came about, but it is no accident.
There is European, Western, Christian culture/civilization and there are others.
Where to are people from all over the world trying to get into? India?

Hi CanSpeccy, last night I discovered Ken Richardson. I thought that you might be one of few people here who can appreciate his writing on mind, genes (or rather lack of them) and intelligence. I think the IQers must hate him as his arguments are some much more nuanced than their primitive tautological reductionism.

What makes up the mind?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16322025-900-what-makes-up-the-mind/

WISING UP ON THE HERITABILITY OF INTELLIGENCE

http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/genewatch/GeneWatchPage.aspx?pageId=388

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2016/09/12/its-now-possible-in-theory-to-predict-life-success-from-a-genetic-test-at-birth/

His comments down in discussion section

I think I will get his books. One got published earlier this year.

Like I said you are stupid enough to believe something you read. The open job listings are part of the H-1B scam.

Indians who do found companies in the US found me-too companies, Jupiter networks was just a poor copy of Cisco. They are not creating anything that wasn’t already here.

You know ”DB Cooper”, i read almost your entire comment history. You are no ‘DB Cooper’, who are you? If you dont want to use your real name atleast use’ anon’ or anonymous’.

From Kookforum:

http://bookforum.com/blog/18275

http://bookforum.com/blog/18272

Chomsky and Chang:

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/41037-myths-of-globalization-noam-chomsky-and-ha-joon-chang-in-conversation

Indians in general are not that bright but all of them are argumentative , delusional and like to brag, even though there is really not that much for Indians to brag about. Here is a typical Indian, educated but nevertheless shameless and delusional, bragging about India to be the next science superpower six years ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/mar/03/india-emerging-geek-superpower

So six years later today what does the country India has to show for in terms of science? Nothing!

If you’re the sort of person who entertains romantic notions about India and wishes to continue doing so, I highly recommend that you do not get to know any actual Indians. Familiarity with them will certainly breed contempt.

Unfortunately I must concur.

That’s all true.

If you’re the sort of person who entertains romantic notions about India and wishes to continue doing so, I highly recommend that you do not get to know any actual Indians. Familiarity with them will certainly breed contempt.

Indians are lazy, quarrelsome, diffident, and often grotesque in appearance. They are prevented from being dangerous only by a complete lack of organizational ability and a certain weakness of will. These large Indian populations we’ve imported into America and especially Canada are going to form a class of Gypsy layabouts and criminals once the gravy train stops chugging along.

And this idea of comparing where countries are now to where their better-performing counterparts were 25 years ago is pure methodological nonsense,

No it isn’t. Rather, it proves that genetic IQ is an extremely small factor in prosperity. If India is just 20 years behind Poland and Russia, and Mexico is just 25-30 years behind Spain or France, within thousands of years of historical record, then the claim that some IQ difference is a permanent mark of differentiation fails.

Another problem with this IQ fetishism is that is laughably assumes that women do just as much civilization-building and technological innovation as men. This is false (which is why race-nationalists are always hardcore woman-worshipping feminists).

You still can’t grasp the concept that if a country’s per-capital GDP rose by 3% in a year, then by your own logic their IQ must have risen in a single year. That exposes the absurdity of this IQ = GDP differential forever idea that appeals to simple-minded wiggers.

Mexico’s prosperity in 2017 is right where Spain’s was in 1990. Being 27 years behind is the tiniest of gaps.

There are exceptions, of course, and it seems those Indians that were born in and/or educated in the U.S. have competency levels approaching, but rarely exceeding, above average white males.

Wrong. Their talents exceed the average white male by a ton. Remember that Indian household income is almost twice that of white Americans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

Plus, I remind you that variance among whites is extremely high. That is why some whites are super-talented while many are complete dregs (like white nationalists)..

You may wish the truth were otherwise, but it is not.

has succeeded because America was founded by Europeans: mainly Anglo-Saxon stock; English common law,

Those men happen to be Anglo-Protestants, but that is not their salient descriptor. Otherwise you would have the same talents. You do not. No more than a chihuahua or a pug has the physical abilities of a German Shepherd.

If Indians were such hot s____, they wouldn’t be wallowing in abject misery and poverty in their own country.

You mean poverty like Germany in the 1930s, or Ukraine during the Holodomor, or like Ukraine today?

Ukraine has the same per capita GDP as India right now, btw. Moldova is poorer than India. It seems you are not aware that white countries became prosperous just in the last several decades, despite being around for thousands of years.

Part of the trouble of giving birth is actually giving birth. That’s where C-sections came from, obviously.

Malaria isn’t like the sniffles. It’s killed millions and continues to kill large numbers of people, and unless you’re using DDT it’s (like many African diseases) vector born. So clean hands, isn’t going to do much in that regard.

Head size is related to hip size, for obvious reasons. Blacks, on average, have smaller skulls and narrower hips. Women have different hips than men, for a reason, namely the very narrow-hipped ones died. It’s called evolution.

This delusional Indian is typical of what you find in America. Argumentative and not bright or intellectually honest enough to make any intelligent argument.

Indians do the same work as white people only for a third of the cost and much lower wages.

If you are an oligarch like Zuckerberg, than Indians are good for you. For every other American Indians are pure cancer.

They are tribalistic like Jews only they smell bad and treat women horribly. Also, the worst part of Indians is that while they may be high caste in India, in America no one thinks much of them and it drives Indians crazy.

They crave so much validation it is pathetic.

I hate to say this, but you’re either being disingenuous or you just have no idea how basic statistic analysis works. Even strong correlations, given sufficiently large samples, will produce many examples that go against the trend, some of which will be huge outliers. In sociology, economics and other fields, correlation coefficients above .3 or so are usually considered quite strong. Many people may not understand how weak a trend with an R of .3 is, but there will be a high proportion of data not closely fitting the trend line and many extreme outliers, given larger samples.

And this idea of comparing where countries are now to where their better-performing counterparts were 25 years ago is pure methodological nonsense, for a variety of reasons. The biggest of these is that the tide of technological progress is lifting all nations’ boats in roughly tandem. And invention is orders of magnitude more difficult than application etc.