Maybe. Third world changes quick and someone’s perception of a place one decades ago can quickly become outdated.

Africa may be more rural than the Americas thus not having the population density to engage in high levels of violent crime.

That’s possible – and I doubt reporting definitions of crimes are the same across all countries.

The Americas in general (mainly due to the Latin Americas) have an even higher murder rate than Africa

Is that not just down to underreporting? Anecdotally I’ve spoken to a lot of STEM working Igbo Nigerians who are terrified of Lagos and Brahmin Indians who tell horror stories of rape victims being raped again and then murdered by the police, especially in Delhi and UP and advise anyone to avoid those places. This is all whilst they were living in the crappiest, crime and gang ridden bedsit hellholes in the UK.

Khan isn’t taking heat on the crime figures since has been pinning the blame on crime rising on all the cuts the Tories have been making to policing budgets since 2010. I am not sure where AK has come up with the comment that he was responsible for reducing police numbers. He has been consistently been asking for more police funding, dating back to his 2016 election campaign. He even switched to supporting stop and search at the beginning of the year, which has massively annoyed black Labour MPs David Lammy and Diane Abbott.

The Tories will probably see heavy losses in the local London elections. They are seen as being responsible for Brexit which has really shaken business confidence here and is massively unpopular. There is also the perception the Tories are playing political games with the city as a Labour mayor is seen as a threat to them. They spent the last few weeks alleging that Jeremy Corbyn was some sort of Cold War informant for the Soviets which was seen as irrelevant by the electorate and made them seem ridiculous when it looked like they were not paying attention to law and order, an issue voters actually care about.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/budget-2017-london-met-police-cuts-sadiq-khan-mayor-conservative-tory-amber-rudd-a8053816.html

http://www.cityam.com/240952/mayor-of-london-sadiq-khan-welcomes-more-armed-police-in-london

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40165048

https://www.ft.com/content/62339c56-49e5-11e7-a3f4-c742b9791d43

but such criminal family groups might indeed have to be treated as the collective entities which they are.

And this needn’t even involve something like Sippenhaft in the narrow sense.
It could mean something like this: The police and other state authorities draw up a list of criminal clans.
If you belong to an officially recognized criminal clan, you’re automatically barred from any position in state employment, no matter your personal record.
One could also reverse the burden of proof regarding property and financial assets. If such people can’t prove they got their wealth through legitimate means, their assets should just be confiscated.
Cutting off welfare payments and taking the children of criminal clans away from their families to put them into state orphanages might also be productive.
There’s a lot one could do without going the full concentration camp route.

I’d resurrect sippenhaft. seems to make a lot of sense from an HBD pov

Not sure if you’re serious…but tbh there might be certain groups for whom this might be necessary.
In some German cities (e.g. Berlin, Bremen) there are big issues with criminal Lebanese clans who are living off organized crime…and not only are they threatening and trying to intimidate witnesses and even policemen, public prosecutors etc., there are now suggestions that they keep some of their family members deliberately away from crime and task them with becoming policemen, in an attempt to infiltrate and undermine state authorities (aided of course by braindead left-wingers who want to diversify the police force).
It may be unfair from a Western individualist perspective, but such criminal family groups might indeed have to be treated as the collective entities which they are.

I’d resurrect sippenhaft. seems to make a lot of sense from an HBD pov and also for the certain kind of crime where the perp doesn’t intend to get out alive from in the first place.

Europe may yet get all that and more by way of exotic legal stuff, what with the social climate deteriorating (making it necessary) and the collective memory of the Middle Ages and/or 20th C. totalitarianisms fading or being crowded out.

When the Detroit riots happened in 1968 – the riots which destroyed the city by showing the remaining whites that blacks were anti-civilizational and could not be placated – blacks in the area had only 3% unemployment. As a large group, they were literally the most prosperous blacks in the world. More prosperous than many whites in Europe, and they had just won a series of political victories on top of all that.

Thanks, that’s informative and confirms what I suspected. Depressing. I just don’t understand this bizarre perception of American blacks as one of the most wronged peoples in all of history.

America’s crime problem is mostly due to its horribly dysfunctional black underclass.

This is what it was like in Washington DC. The city has a high murder rate, but I was told it is all confined in the negro areas. I guess a lot of unemployed gangsters. If you stay on the tourists parts, nothing will happen to you.

I found it in interesting in Washington DC, that in the museums, you also see a lot of black tourists and school groups, who are interested in culture and so on. And there are plenty of black employed people, which treat you in very civilized way.

Whereas in California there seem less black employees (most of the employees in California seem to be Latin from Mexico). But if you walk in the wrong area in Los Angeles, you see a lot of gangster seeming black people drinking beer and having random barbeque in front of the lawn.

Do rednecks really commit all that much crime? I don’t have stats at hand (AK probably has), but my impression is that America’s crime problem is mostly due to its horribly dysfunctional black underclass.

Daniel Chieh is correct. I live in a redneck area and employ many rednecks.

They’re fine.

Their crimes consist of domestic violence, drug abuse, bar fights, poaching, and drunk driving. Teenage white girls also like to shoplift (high class white girls do this too). Nothing to get worked up about in other words.

The kind of home invasions which are routine in rural Britain are never done here since everyone knows it can be fatal. The typical rural town has more firepower than an infantry battalion and that’s not an exaggeration.

American Renaissance routinely publishes The Color of Crime if you want detailed statistics.

What are your views on the causes of that crime wave in the US from the 1960s onwards? A lot of the causes adduced for it seem rather outlandish and quite bizarre (e.g. lead poisoning)…was it just one of the manifestations of too many young people? Or were there other reasons (to be brutally open about it: was it due to lessened deterrence against black criminality, once whites stopped lynching or engaging in lethal collective violence against blacks)?

Yes, it really is just black people.

Prior to the 20th century the blacks lived almost exclusively in the South, where they were well under control outside of of Reconstruction (1865-1879).

As a result of World War One and the successful effort at restricting immigration, European immigration dried up. Northern capitalists began recruiting labor from the South (both black and white) as a result, leading to the so-called Great Migration.

Northerners lacked social and legal mechanisms to keep blacks under control other than residential segregation.

After WW2 liberals suddenly decided that both segregation and punishing criminals was wrong, so city after city was destroyed by blacks criminals. The most dramatic example is Detroit, which was once the most prosperous city in the entire world (seriously).

Outraged voters elected tough-on-crime politicians, judges, and prosecutors in response. They also successfully pushed for liberalized gun and self defense laws. It succeeded, and after peaking in the early 1990s crime continuously fell until 2014.

In 2014 it ticked back up as liberals once again decided that punishing black criminals is bad. President Obama very unhelpfully intervened in the Black Lives Matter movement, which caused riots and murders to increase across the country.

Fortunately as Karlin stated the country has been effectively resegregated, so black people mostly just hurt each other now.

Have to admit the American justice system seems rather horrifying to me, with all those stories about people being forced into dubious plea bargains under threat of being locked away forever if they don’t take the offer, or offenders being sentenced to 25 years to life for shop lifting due to those three strikes laws (yes, I understand that happens only in a relatively small minority of cases). But then I suppose the liberal justice regime of the 1960s and 1970s was much worse for the interests of law-abiding citizens. And in any case, the situation in large parts of Europe is just laughable, with sentences being far too lax…but given increasing “diversity” we might eventually reach American conditions…and take similar measures. I certainly wonder at times about the merits of something like this:

The American justice system is frequently horrifying, and I’ve personally been beaten by police officers for instance.

But there is no humane alternative. Plea bargains are necessary as the courts don’t have the resources to give every man a fair trial.

the figures push at the facts a bit.
According to the Times, London beat New York by one murder in February and were on target to beat them by one in March. An anecdote, not a trend, and per pop London remains slightly better as it has a slightly higher pop.
Then NY gets colder winters, and I haven’t checked but I do suspect street murders are seasonal, and more so in NY.
And both numbers are around 3 per 100k pa for March, which is high, as one would expect for London relative to average UK(0.92) but suprisingly low for NY relative to whole US(5.88).

The prison argument would have a lot going for it if it were just NY vs London, but US vs UK the murder rate is 6:1.
The real causes seem to be jobs in NY relative to other cities, and very recent gang warfare in UK – the jump all seems to be gang knife attacks. Plus guns and culture explaining the major US UK gap.

Amren did feature on it. It’s an honor culture as rural areas with close frequent personal contact have higher rates peaking between 4-6 same as UP Bihar & falling quickly to 2 or below 1 in exurbs

Murder rate in worst case about 4 mostly 2 or less per 100k

They mostly harm themselves through Afghani Feem (Opium)

Black making above 100k has more than double rate of white below 20k

So..

Too low of a murder rate is no good either

White murder rates increase in rural areas with more personal contact. Blacks are reverse

Latin American rates make sense given that most babies there are bastards.

More & more look at the social decay in Americas & realize whites face divine retribution for wishing this upon India।।

The Youth has woken up & will save the west with the old ways though।।

My 2 cents; kinda grew up around the rednecks…

My experience is that they mostly harm themselves. There does indeed exist a toxic white underclass, but its not the so-called rednecks. By definition the frontier West was full of rednecks, but while their violence levels are high by modern standards, it was hardly comparable to some points where in the US where the cities had death rates approaching war zones.

There’s alcoholism, drug use, rape, etc, lots of nastiness along with the grudges and assault that come with the territory, but I don’t recall that much in the way of murder. Despite the availability of guns and frequent references to them, conflicts rarely seemed to escalate to their usage. The only murder that I can recall was someone stabbed to death, and of course, it was drug-related.

Insofar as there is greater violence with rednecks, it really does feel like the persistence of an honor culture. I might be biased, as I’m very fond of some of them.

In America – low social capital, easy access to guns, cowboy/redneck/gangster/hiphop/tupac culture (as in all the Americas except Canada)* and a lot of inadequate and mentally ill people walking openly in the streets.

Do rednecks really commit all that much crime? I don’t have stats at hand (AK probably has), but my impression is that America’s crime problem is mostly due to its horribly dysfunctional black underclass.

In America – low social capital, easy access to guns, cowboy/redneck/gangster/hiphop/tupac culture (as in all the Americas except Canada)* and a lot of inadequate and mentally ill people walking openly in the streets.

Nice country, but not with safe atmosphere of developed Western European countries.

*The Americas in general (mainly due to the Latin Americas) have an even higher murder rate than Africa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

A resegregation in all but name that constrained the ultimate intensity of the crime wave following the post-1960s social dissolution.

What are your views on the causes of that crime wave in the US from the 1960s onwards? A lot of the causes adduced for it seem rather outlandish and quite bizarre (e.g. lead poisoning)…was it just one of the manifestations of too many young people? Or were there other reasons (to be brutally open about it: was it due to lessened deterrence against black criminality, once whites stopped lynching or engaging in lethal collective violence against blacks)?
Have to admit the American justice system seems rather horrifying to me, with all those stories about people being forced into dubious plea bargains under threat of being locked away forever if they don’t take the offer, or offenders being sentenced to 25 years to life for shop lifting due to those three strikes laws (yes, I understand that happens only in a relatively small minority of cases). But then I suppose the liberal justice regime of the 1960s and 1970s was much worse for the interests of law-abiding citizens. And in any case, the situation in large parts of Europe is just laughable, with sentences being far too lax…but given increasing “diversity” we might eventually reach American conditions…and take similar measures. I certainly wonder at times about the merits of something like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feindstrafrecht

Thanks.

The rampant rate at which Negro prisoners rape other inmates is an abomination created by the current corrections system and one that progs absolutely refuse to address.

Because the victims are wildly, disproportionately white. Therefore, to self-styled ‘progressives’ it’s a feature, not a bug. If (as the MSM likes to pretend) the victims were mostly minorities, a class-action lawsuit would have been won long ago–the constitution’s prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment invoked. But in practice blacks are used only if there aren’t enough whites to go ’round.

An organisation called Stop Prisoner Rape used to maintain a harrowing series of accounts and statistics at spr.org. However I notice it’s been subsumed into another organisation focused upon minority rights.

The Harder They Come is a 1972 Jamaican crime film directed by Perry Henzell and co-written by Trevor D. Rhone, and starring Jimmy Cliff. The film is most famous for its reggae soundtrack that is said to have “brought reggae to the world”.

I don’t know that I totally agree that the movie made any great points about crime, but it has a killer soundtrack.

The Harder They Come

… drops in homicide rate started in 1933 and 1991, both just a year into lengthy Democratic presidential rule.

I actually agree that sometimes the longer-term benefits of Republican policies redound to the benefit of Democrats, but George H.W. Bush was President from January 1989 to January 1993. Transition dates were different in F.D. Roosevelt’s time; he was inaugurated March 4, 1933.

Happened?

It’s still happening:

https://twitter.com/PortlandPolice/status/871454370734292992/photo/1

From first hand experience at many county jails one will find several mentally deficient inmates who long ago might have been institutionalised. Albeit prior to opening thedoorsin the 60sthere were undoubtedly many moderate cases that should not have been institutionalised. The pendulum swings back and forth. Looks like the socialists want to free the criminals once again forgetting history AND once again demonstrate that they have no meaningful concept of human nature or the law of incentive/disincentive. I am an old boomer who remembers all to well what our old socialists and young Mellonheads don’t and probably won’t.

Another deinstitutionalization of the day was that of marriage. Daniel Amneus pointed out that crime rates rose almost precisely fifteen years after bastardy rates did. Gee, I wonder why…

“We should pay for abortion or adoption/orphanages.”

Paying for abortion makes the State, and hence, the masses an accessory to the murder of millions of innocents. With whatever karma that entails. There will always be sluts or childish women that will use their genitalia to acquire children they expect some male to support. If you shame them in public, the female herd will eventually realize that this behavior does not benefit them in any way. Reality is a bitch, isn’t it? But, it works. Interfering in it does not.

Actually, what are the policies from the 1960′s that you are still sympathetic to? Legalization of pot? Indiscriminate sex? Mass non-White immigration legislation? The only one I still have any respect for is some of the music from that era. Not the self-righteous, preachy, we know better than you, but some of the greatest popular music of all time.

I read the paper and they seem mainly to be comparing longer prison sentences versus shorter sentences/parole. They do have a small section discussing the efficacy of punitive fines against middle/high class people who committed a minor crime preventing repeat offences. I agree that there is a section of the population that is completely irredeemable who would be better off simply spending as much time as possible isolated from the general population and doing physical labour or something time-consuming. I do think however that flogging can prevent repeat offences if they are aimed at the right subgroup of people i.e people who are not completely anti-social and actually have something to lose.

I tried searching for the film but I could only find a boxing film from 1956, who is the director?

And who would they be?

Largely and disproportionally, they would be lower class black males.

We need to ask about the victims of the homicides. When incarceration goes down, who do the murderers kill? Right now, we don’t catch all the murderers and they continue killing. http://heyjackass.com/ reports an 11% rate of charging a suspect in a murder case. It also reports that victims are overwhelmingly male, 82%. And overwhelmingly black, 204 of 260. Hispanic 36, and white 6. This is in a city that is 45% white.

Bottom line, the streets are more dangerous than prison. For those who want a death penalty, we have got it in spades, albeit with extreme collateral damage. Were the murderers imprisoned, they would be safer.

Gee, why is it when you lock up criminals the crime rate goes down? How does that happen? Its a mystery. Can Sherlock Holmes solve this mystery? Hell even Mike Tyson could figure this out. But the Left is too open minded to look at the facts, especially when it conflicts with their narrative, the broken record that drives people crazy and just goes on and on and on…

To put this in human terms, there would have been about 320,000 fewer homicide victims if the homicide rate had remained at its 1960 level.

320,000.

It would take about 400 hours just to read off all their names.

Calculation: (9.5 – 4.5) x (226,5000,000 / 100,000) x (1995 – 1967) = 320,000.

I agree with Charles Murray who said that the state shouldn’t provide welfare for children to unmarried women. We should pay for abortion or adoption/orphanages. My great-great grandmother was widowed in her early 20s with a newborn, and she then married another guy and had more children. She probably would have stayed a single mother if welfare had been available to my great grandfather’s detriment.

Our current system of incarceration’s greatest contribution of to civic order is that it incapacitates criminals. While they are in prison they cannot harm law abiding citizens outside the walls. See my other post on this thread for an estimate of the incapacitating effect. Flogging would have no such effect. The movie “The Harder They Fall”, set in 1970s Jamaica, where flogging was still a legal punishment, makes this point quite well.

Unfortunately, prisoners who cannot harm those outside the walls still manage to inflict massive amounts of mayhem upon guards and other prisoners. The rampant rate at which Negro prisoners rape other inmates is an abomination created by the current corrections system and one that progs absolutely refuse to address.

“Scrape one to three layers of skin off a liberal and you will find Josef Stalin.”

Bingo!!

Years ago I heard a retired judge–a Federal judge I think–make essentially the same point: that there are whole classes of people who are simply ill-equipped to live in a civilized society. He recommended that they be shipped to internment camps in the woods etc. Of course, he could afford to say this because he had already retired. Had he said this while active, he wouldn’t have been on the bench very long. No sirree!

I had never seen a Dave Chapelle routine before. Everyone says how funny he is.

Much-deserved blowback. British leaders have been supporting Islamic jihadis and terrorists against secular Middle Eastern governments and Asian and European “geopolitical adversaries” for decades now. Right now, at this moment, they are actively allied with Al Qaida against the secular government of Syria, aiding them with everything from weapons to supplies to military trainers to media propaganda. Britain as a territory is also a DIRECT EXPORTER of Islamic terrorists – many of the foreign jihadi militants who cause mayhem in multiple countries across the globe reside IN Britain, set out FROM Britain to cause chaos, death and destruction, and then return TO Britain to take a break and rest. The insouciant, degenerate, hypocritical and bovinely dull-minded “British public” either are not even aware of their leaders’ policies, or actively support them, or just don’t care.

If there is a country in Europe that deserves to be hit by Islamic terrorism more than any other, it is the UK of today.

The chart referenced by iSteve seems to say otherwise.

One of the interesting developments in the penultimate episode of The Sopranos was when Jennifer Melfi, Tony’s therapist throughout the series, realizes that all she is doing is enabling his psychopathy. The realization stems from an actual article published by psychiatrists Samuel Yochelson and Stanton Samenow and is demonstrated by the way Tony applies Melfi’s advice in several instances.

Interestingly, in media discussions after the episode aired, many therapists expressed disapproval of Melfi’s decision to stop treating Tony.

The relevant comparison would be with Belgium’s WHITE murder rate; not Belgium’s overall murder rate. Here’s an interesting state-by-state murder rape map of the US:

Every single state in the US has a higher murder rate than (for example) Spain’s 0.7 per 100,000, Germany’s 0.8, or England/Wales’s 1.0.

There is probably a greater propensity for violence among white Americans than modern western white Europeans, though the gap in rates is trivial compared to the black-white gap.

Lice will seem benign after more TB, measles epidemics and, why not some bubonic plague eventually. Are there any apartment vacancies in Chappaqua?

Yes, yes and yes. But if you want to destroy a society you have to detach the state from its role as a just executioner. Libs will have none of justice, because someone (in theory) will die for the crimes of another.

Is this true? Well DNA is the total, complete and final word you know; and eyewitness testimony cannot survive the adulterers defense “who are you going to believe, me or your own lying eyes?”

Liberals are visceral enemies of humanity. From PETA to the judiciary they are misanthropes. Scrape one to three layers of skin off a liberal and you will find Josef Stalin.

Many thanks for finding this info and making it available to us.

Yes, as a faithful NYT reader, I can vouch that the writers have absolutely no ability to look at the numbers and drawn the obvious conclusion.

Center shot!

Another glorious benefit of diversity is nits in children’s hair. Teachers are now being told that they should announce that no one is to blame and that it doesn’t mean that anyone is dirtier than any other if certain children bring lice to school in their hair.

When I was in school in the benighted 1940s and 1950s in Brooklyn and Queens we started every school year with the school nurse testing each child’s head for lice. Never once was any found. This new crop of “migrants” seem to carry a few extra “benefits” with them. . . Not their fault, of course; never their fault.

If this interpretation is correct there is an excellent case to be made for a routine culling of the antisocial elements in society.

If you are correct Democrats and a wide swath of Republicans qualify as “antisocial elements in society” Should we follow the dictates of this logic? No. Killing sheep does not replace the shepherd.

Does this mean there are now going to be security guards patrolling the bridge at night now?

A certain percentage of Blacks

Like one third.

1 in 3 Black Men Go To Prison?

Israel did not choose to have those disputes – Arab countries did. Israel accepted the 1948 UN partition plan, but the Arab world didn’t.

Viva il cotellino!

In the 1960s, a regular topic of Black women in Chicago was how their no-good baby-daddies weren’t paying child support. Now, Black women don’t give two craps about child support because the State is now their meal ticket; yes, it takes a State full of compliant taxpayers for such women to feed and raise their youths. ( In Illinois, we are talking $193 per person a month just for the LINK card aka Food Stamps.) And still, the white suburbanites continue to vote Democrats into office as well as welcoming the two million Mexican invasion force.

I found it interesting mainly because the writer seems to possess fairly liberal sentiments yet reached the conclusion that he did. Of course, he doesn’t go the whole way and say that flogging should be mandatory but I am willing to give him credit for even being willing to explore other options. New does not always equal better, and while old doesn’t always equal superior, there is still wisdom in the ways of our ancestors.

White Americans are way more violent than white Western Europeans from other countries.

IIRC, that’s been debunked here before. Scots-Irish-Borderer Americans are more violent than European whites, but not other American whites. See discussions of the Canadian Border Effect.

P.S. Post-1965 white (?) American populations like Albanians and Chechens are another matter.A handful of Albanians (like the Belushis)were around pre-1965 in case anyone wants to point that out.

You might be interested in this article in The Chronicle of Higher Education:

http://www.chronicle.com/article/In-Defense-of-Flogging/127208/

We could be a lot closer to fixing the Obama years/BLM homicide spike than generally thought. Police and black communities know who are going to be committing at least half of the next year’s homicides. Most of these individuals have lengthy records and are vulnerable to lengthy prison terms for offenses they could easily be caught and convicted of. Namely gun charges.

Black communities want law and order and have been strong advocates of it in the past. In order to diminish ebb and flow of support for this, it needs to be more targeted. Or a lot more targeted. Consider a ‘base rate’ of homicide consisting of domestics and random bad outcomes as well as an epidemic of highly concentrated gang and drug related homicides. The latter are already on a list, and it only takes the will to incarcerate them by the hundreds (locally) and (thousands) nationally.

I think it needs to be knocked back to the 00′s level and then left alone. It’s an American disease that the best is enemy of the good and more is always better.

The epidemic nature of this can be seen in news reports of ‘knock on’ homicides at funerals and candlelight vigils. Its possible that this isn’t reversible, of course. And I am too optimistic. But with big data and surveillance advances, a simple gun possession arrest followed by the draconian sentences (10 years, give or take) of the gun charge plus whatever else is on the table (attempted homicide, drugs, etc) will put them out of society long enough that they will come back to a society without much space for violent criminal deviance.

“I’m a moderate but I feel the impulse for bloody revenge growing in me”

I mean, if we have to, we have to…but I’d rather not.

Round up and deal with the terrorists who are already inside our borders, but other than that, GTFO the Middle East (and keep them out of our borders, obviously). Israel, if you want to continue to litigate millennia-old land disputes with a quarter billion of your historic enemies, that’s on you.

Big problem is that incarceration doesn’t stop violent criminals from breeding.

I’m beginning to find Muzzie Mayhem hilarious mostly because of the responses it engenders from the MSM and our betters. Of course my thoughts and prayers are with the victims which only adds to the hilarity .

There are many in U.S. prisons who should not be there. There are many free people who should be in prison. It’s not how many people you incarcerate. It’s which people you incarcerate.

Just keep them in your neighborhood. I’m sure there will be no ill effects.

This is one of the dumbest ideas that is easily refuted. The cost of one crime can reach into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. One crime. Not even counting the human costs.

When are we going to admit that the early 20th century Progressives were right-three generations of imbeciles was enough?

I don’t doubt your assertion that American whites are more violent than white Europeans. But as I began to fashion a response we have been overtaken by events.

Apparently terrorists have again hit London. The British have been “turning the other cheek’ as a public policy for some time now – not as much as the French perhaps, but still more than we would accept by an American political party.

I’m a moderate but I feel the impulse for bloody revenge growing in me. I like the British. This angers me. In the period between the two World Wars there was a lot of discussion about the possible unthinkable atrocities that might be visited upon European cities if there were to be another giant European war. They all feared and condemned the ultimate horror that could imagined – bombing of a civilian city from the air.

But quite soon public opinion transformed. Soon the Germans were bombing London (The Blitz) and there was around the clock bombing of Germany cities – The Americans by day and the British bombers at night. The “tender sensibilities” of the public eroded fast.

So history suggests that civilian compunctions are soon overcome. We seem to be on course for a campaign to eradicate one or more Near Eastern Muslim nations. The Nazis resorted to massive civilian retaliations once it became obvious that they couldn’t uncover the actual perpetrators of the French Resistance attacks. They simply killed any Frenchman they could round up.

The West seems to be being driven towards a similar policy. It’s not nice to contemplate but history suggests that when confronted by terror tactics the defenders are driven towards their own extreme measures.

Speaking of violent behavior – a knife and van ” incident ” on London Bridge . Good thing it’s just an ” incident “.

Given that labour has been surging in the polls the Brits may soon find out.

meanwhile more muslim mayhem in london

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4569638/Car-ploughs-20-people-London-Bridge.html

here we go again

“Secondly, just locking them up is very costly as it costs 10s of thousands per yer per inmate, which likely vastly outstrips the harms they imposed on society to get there.”

Cavanagh and Kleiman did a definitive study of your second assertion back in 1990 and to my knowledge it has never been refuted. http://www.botecanalysis.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/BOTEC_A-Cost-Benefit-Analysis-of-Prison-Cell-Construction-and-Alternative-Sanctions_Cavanagh_Mark-Kleiman_for-NIJ_May-June-1990.pdf

Their conclusion:

“We estimate that the direct and indirect annual costs of operating a prison cell must fall between the two hypothetical extremes of $22,000 and $61,000. A more reasonable range for these costs is probably $34,000 to $38,000. We also estimate that the crime prevented by using such a cell to lengthen the sentence of a current prisoner by a year would cost between $172,000 and $2,364,000. In other words our lowest estimate of the benefit of operating an additional prison cell for a year ($172,000) is nearly three times higher than the most extreme high estimate of the cost of operating such a cell ($61,000). The lowest estimated benefit is four times as large as a more reasonable estimate of the cost ($38,000). If we use our high estimate of the benefit of operating an additional prison cell for a year the cost-benefit differential is even more favorable. The benefits of operating a prison cell for a year ($2,364,000) are over 37 times as great as the most extreme high estimate of the costs ($61,000). The benefits of operating the cell are 64 times as great as a more reasonable estimate of the costs ($38,000)”

That’s the perception, but possibly a false one, as the commenters on this blog article suggest. Note also that the ancestors of today’s white Americans aren’t all from Western Europe.

Some of the most solid Americans are those derived from the Christian Arabs from the greater Lebanon, Syria, Iraq (no Middle East national boundaries back then) region who arrived during the great immigration wave 1880-1920. I have met more recent Christian immigrants from Lebanon who are as pale as Frenchmen and even look somewhat French. Two had blue eyes.

After all, who has ever heard of an obscure era known as The Sixties? Legend has it that there was once a rare group known as the Baby Boomers who were said to occasionally speak of The Sixties, but they apparently left no records behind.

I’ve heard that some dedicated investigators have managed to build enough trust with this laconic tribe that they would even share personal reminiscences of this mysterious time period, but it requires Goodall-like patience.

” Secondly, just locking them up is very costly as it costs 10s of thousands per yer per inmate, which likely vastly outstrips the harms they imposed on society to get there.”

To me this is the point where your argument breaks down.

There are lots of criminals, at least we can identify lots of broad categories. Some actually have productive careers on the outside where they can support themselves except for that drug problem or pedophilia thing.

But there are a bunch of them that are… totally useless? They are just plain not going to ever be able to hold down a job (or probably get hired in the first place if anyone knows about them). They get transfer payments from the government either directly or via a girlfriend, mother, you name it.

Basically you are paying for them in prison or out, your choice. And they inevitably get in trouble and locked up – again, and again, and again.

It’s not something I like, but it appears to be true. There is a large group of people who are just plain totally unfit to fit into this society (any society we’d call functional honestly). It’s a cynical thought, but I’d wager you could talk to a neighborhood cop, or anyone in a neighborhood if they are being honest, and identify people who are just going to keep getting in trouble, and will never be a benefit to society or one of their children – ever.

And then you have to consider two possible societies: 1) Where you lock them up and warehouse them in perpetuity or 2) Do what we did in the 70′s and 80′s.

Thing is, you don’t get to consider their rights. You can, but you have to consider the rights of the old lady on the corner who might get raped and robbed because this guy wasn’t languishing in prison before you even think about his rights.

I guess it depends on whether you think a possible crime is a statistical certainty if a certain individual wanders the streets for any amount of time.

The NYT taught me it is a paradox that more people are in prison DESPITE a decrease in the crime rate…

I was just reading about the Oregonians in the mid 19th c. who were fighting and killing Indians. They were down in California for the gold rush and were encountered by James Tyson, California Physician. He said they were the toughest group of men he saw and were completely outside the law and civilization when it came to killing. They had been fighting in the Cayuse War after some murders and kidnapping by Indians and now felt they had free range to exact revenge on the red man.

The book, Diary of a Physician in California, by James Tyson is a wonderful read. The Library of Congress has it for free online. If you like history this one’s an exciting gem.

Lol’d at the “Poverty is a mental tax that lowers IQ” line. Could IQ be the mysterious third variable beyond either attitude or income that has much more predictive power to future success? Could there be some other mysterious variable correlated with IQ that varies across U.S. regions? Could there be some difference between the U.S. and the rest of the wealthy world that leads to more regional diversify of IQ?

It is the black aldermen in Chicago who are opposed to increasing penalties for having illegal guns in an effort to reduce the murder rate as they say it would put more black men in jail.

White Americans are way more violent than white Western Europeans from other countries.

That’s the perception, but possibly a false one, as the commenters on this blog article suggest. Note also that the ancestors of today’s white Americans aren’t all from Western Europe.

Speaking of criminality….
June 3
Jacksonville man flashing money on Facebook live arrested on drug charges. Incoherent video included. >>>> http://tinyurl.com/y889ml6l

I’m sure I’m about to become very popular…

The big problem is that effectively handling crime requires a nuanced approach, which neither party is capable of producing due to knee-jerk inanity on both sides. The right confuses justice with vengeance. The left forgets that forgiveness is earned, not owed.

“Just lock ‘em up” is a dumb response. Firstly, because prison is not a good disincentive for most criminals. Most criminals have high time preference (high impulsivity, low concern for consequences), so future prison time isn’t much of an impact on their decisions. Secondly, just locking them up is very costly as it costs 10s of thousands per yer per inmate, which likely vastly outstrips the harms they imposed on society to get there. Finally, prison as currently designed generally increases the odds of recidivism, instead of decreasing it. So prison is largely ineffective at preventing crime, expensive, and usually leaves people more prone to future crime then when they went in. Prison, for all but habitual or worst offenders, is dumb. However, ‘tough on crime’ is easy to sell to the masses, hence the continual ratcheting up of prison sentences.

Yes, the prison system is substituting (poorly) for the reduced mental health system for a lot of people that were utilizing the latter. This is not helped by various quality of life ‘crimes’ such as vagrancy. However, the total volume of people is low compared to the total prison population.

The problems the left are going to have is that in order for punishment to be effective it has to be both swift and harsh, as well a lot of leftist policies have the ugly side effect of increasing crime (multiculturalism, high minimum wages, licensing, etc). The left will struggle with harsh because it’ll pull at their feelz and too much focus on swift will likely undermine due process. The other struggle for the left is that there are indeed some evil people out there, and as we lack a place to export them to, prison is pretty much the best we can do with them.

White Americans are way more violent than white Western Europeans from other countries. I assume this is a cultural difference, but maybe it’s genetic, too. We have had many years of really fast expansion of population–maybe the super aggressive guys were the ones who mostly won those competitions. Or maybe the same tendency that made you bet your life on a one-way ticket to the US or a chance to homestead some remote bit of ground surrounded by hostile Indians selected for violent tendencies.

Emperor, clothes:

If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent…In an all­-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.

OT

A largely unreported yet gigantic scandal is how politicians all over America have conspired with public unions to strip mine taxpayers:

Connecticut’s Tax Comeuppance

Gov. Malloy has spent two terms treating business as a bottomless well of cash to redistribute to public unions…Pension contributions, which have doubled since 2010, will increase by a third over the next two years. The result: a $5.1 billion deficit and three recent credit downgrades.

Prohibition (1920-1933) could be a major reason the solid line was so high in the late ’20s.

The great trough in the violent crime curve from the mid-1930s through 1968 also marked the last period in our history during which capital punishment was routinely carried out without a great deal of court-imposed delay. As an example, Giuseppe Zangara, who botched his attempt to shoot Franklin Roosevelt, but hit the mayor of Chicago, Anton Cermak, and four others, on Feb. 15, 1933. Cermak died on March 6, and Zangara, who had already been tried and sentenced to prison for attempted murder, was again brought to trial, this time for the murder of Cermak. He was sentenced to death and electrocuted on March 20. Most capital cases were conducted with comparable expedition. Caryl Chessman, who strung his 1948 case out for 12 years, finally being executed in 1960, was an exception to the rule.

However, by the mid-1960s, appeals of state capital cases to Federal courts became routine, culminating in Furman v. Georgia (408 U.S. 238), a 1972 ruling that overturned all death penalty legislation then current, effectively imposing a moratorium on capital punishment. While later cases reinstated the death penalty, subsequent jurisprudence has surrounded it with so much restriction and delay that a Chessman-style wait of a dozen years is comparatively short.

There was a widespread belief in the early 20th century that violent crime could be “hanged out.” The data reported here appear to support that contention.

It is worth noting that the state of New York once had one of the most stringent death penalty laws in the country. Conviction of first degree murder (including “felony murder,” i.e., killing a person in the course of committing another crime such as armed robbery) carried a mandatory death penalty, which could only be reduced if the governor commuted the sentence. Commutations were rare because they made it possible to accuse the governor of being soft on crime. Sing Sing’s electric chair was for many years the busiest in the United States – and the streets of New York were remarkably safe for its citizens.

Institutionalized: Mental Health Behind Bars

I used to be a liberal, but I always strived to understand reality. It’s evil to ignore reality in the pursuit of a failed ideology, as it will always lead to enormous suffering, no matter how good the original intentions were.

Now bask in the clarity that breaks on the horizon when you replace ‘well-intentioned’ with ‘irresponsible’. It can be done quite often.

For each item, assessors — psychologists or psychiatrists — assign a score of zero (the item doesn’t apply), one (the item applies in some respects), or two (the item applies in most respects). The maximum possible score is forty, and the boundary for clinical psychopathy hovers around thirty. Last year, the average score for all incarcerated male offenders in North America was 23.3. Hare guesses his own score would be about four or five.
[...]
So many of these awkward questions would vanish if only there were a functioning treatment program for psychopathy. But there isn’t. In fact, several studies have shown that existing treatment makes criminal psychopaths worse. In one, psychopaths who underwent social-skills and anger-management training before release had an 82 percent reconviction rate. Psychopaths who didn’t take the program had a 59 percent reconviction rate. Conventional psychotherapy starts with the assumption that a patient wants to change, but psychopaths are usually perfectly happy as they are. They enrol[l] in such programs to improve their chances of parole. “These guys learn the words but not the music,” Hare says. “They can repeat all the psychiatric jargon — ‘I feel remorse,’ they talk about the offence cycle — but these are words, hollow words.”

– http://www.unz.com/jthompson/pavlov-nowhere/#comment-1744223

Professionals: What do you do if you learn your patient is likely a Psychopath?

What this graph suggests is that your ancestors should have sent them all back to West Africa at the end of the Civil War, or at least to the Caribbean like Lincoln wanted.

Perhaps I need a pretty black girl to sing my publicly unacceptable thoughts, the way Dave Chapelle had a pretty white girl for his (demonstrably acceptable) ones.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/i3vs6y/chappelle-s-show-pretty-white-girl-sings-dave-s-thoughts—uncensored

In the Middle Ages before society was rich enough to afford life long incarceration presumably the criminals or suspected criminals were simply killed.

No. Most children didn’t make it to adulthood because there were no antibiotics. There’s your magical population-control mechanism. Criminals were killed, horribly, often in public (something we should totally re-instate here and now, BTW) but there was no large body of anti-social individuals to vex the government because there was no large body of any type of individual.

Thanks! I’ve been looking all over for a graph like that. Good to have the formal analysis as well. This one is bookmarked.

OT: Welfare applicant in Augusta, Maine is denied benefits so he spreads bedbugs in city hall. If glorious diversity is not involved with this story, I will be stunned. Any area that has had an influx of East Africans has also seen an increase in bed bugs.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/disgruntled-maine-man-unleashes-100-bedbugs-augusta-city-hall-article-1.3218117

Funny cuz it’s true…

Riker’s Island is said to be the largest mental hospital in New York State, Cook County jail the largest mental hospital in the country.

Hospital meaning holding ground, with a few pills offered, which can be sold for e-cigs or snacks.

But increased institutionalization means disproportionately more non-white people get institutionalized.

Which is disparate impact.

Because racism.

Even though races don’t exist.

The answer is to move those violent and crazy people out to the suburbs, where magic dirt and Wonderbread will make them all better.

This has the additional benefit of clearing out those nice, urban neighborhoods, so rich, gay Democrats can gentrify them.

And if those violent and crazy people continue to be violent and crazy, then it will be the fault of their white, suburban neighbors.

Which is disparate impact.

Because racism.

If you ask a lot of conservatives, they’ll tell you that the solution to today’s problems is to return to the values of the 1950s. What this chart shows you is that no matter how conservative or liberal the professed values might be, some people just aren’t equipped to handle everyday life in this society. You can preach the gospel of steady jobs and two-parent families until you pass out and fall over; for a certain section of the populace, it’s just not going to take root. You can lock ‘em up and throw away the key. You can castigate and ostracize the freeloaders. And at the end of the day, they are not going to adapt themselves to the job-marriage-mortgage regimen.

I’m very sympathetic to many well-intentioned 1960s policies. I was only alive at the very end of the 60s, but I sort-of default to the Gene Roddenberry worldview until my brain kicks in. However, I’m not sympathetic to ignoring 50+ years of data that proves a lot of the 60s ideas were bunk, or at least need serious modification. I’m also convinced that some acknowledgement of HBD issues are necessary.

Technically I think we have to give the husband of the smartest woman on Earth some credit for that by passing 1994′s VCCLEA, which together with Welfare reform was proposed by Dick Morris to save the Clinton Presidency following the 1994 GOP wave. It was probably against his hippie instincts and cynical but it worked. Of course that was back when Democrats could tell a black rapper to stuff it when she advocated the killing of white people because Democrats thought they needed white votes to win.

The idea of taking drug dealers off the field of battle for the effective balance of their criminal careers (30 years+) with long mandatory minimums and consequently reducing their open gunplay and turf wars was a good way to make a near immediate impact on violent crime trends. Ironically, Hipster urban recolonization was made possible by what are now deemed extreme right wing policies (mandatory minimums, more cops and broken windows policing), and so within the successes of anti-crime policies are the seeds of their undoing.

Of course, since blacks are a larger and more important slice of the new Democrat coalition, chipping away at the reversal of long term reduction in violent crime rates will now become a Democratic party priority under euphemisms like “criminal justice reform” and “ending mass incarceration” to slip it by the remaining liberal suburban soccer moms in the coalition while keeping the focus on cherubic out of date pictures of young black criminals and not the increasing number of dead white girls found in dumpsters.

The biggest problem right now is the Koch wing of the Republican party is pushing soft on crime policies. Without a united front against liberal insanity, things are pretty hopeless.

I rather thought this post would have something to do with the French Revolution…

The peculiar part of this is that all these issues are so dominated by race. If criminality, intelligence, etc. were evenly distributed across ethnic groups, we could discuss them and how to effectively deal with them intelligently.

Since they aren’t, we can’t.

“equally surprising”

What is this? Learned cluelessness? The effects of brainwashing? Satire?

For the entire 20s the Republicans were in charge. So the ’32 high probably belongs to them, although some claim Hoover was a departure from the economic policies of the Harding Coolidge era.

The problem with all economic analysis is there are so many factors going on, which do you include in your model? Other possible explanations for homicide rates: WWII, Vietnam, The Great Migration (of Blacks to northern cities), the Soviet Union supporting class unrest, ect. I suspect the decline in institutionalization had more to do with budget priorities than sociology theories. Left unsaid would be jailing people because we have extra tax money, or releasing prisoners because we cannot afford to pay government pensions would be unacceptable.

Maine Gov.: Released Inmates Could Fill Jobs

http://www.officer.com/news/12340092/maine-gov-released-inmates-could-fill-jobs

See pensiontsunami.com for links to the future government pension crisis.

Not so OT.

I don’t doubt that there can be an emotional brain consequence to poverty (“Poverty, they argue, exacts a mental tax akin to lowering a person’s IQ” from the article you quoted). But the concentration of people with low IQ is probably the real problem in inner city schools when it comes to achieving success, which is increasingly tied to higher IQ.

It’s a bad problem. Prior to the 1960′s, black people (and poor white people) imitated successful white people, imitating their manner of dress, attending church, encouraging children to do well in school. Now, though, encouraging kids with 80 IQ to do these things sounds like some kind of cargo cult exercise, as far as the success rate is concerned. (If only there was a way to get the jobs away from illegal immigrants, and reward diligence with jobs…)

Back on the topic, I’ve been thinking that our inner cities are places where we are breeding a group of people who can thrive there – the ones who do best are the ones who like the violence, they like the lawlessness, they like the drug experiences, the women like being single heads of household who get regular checks from the government, the men like fathering lots of different kids for whom they have no responsibility, etc. Brief prison terms are exactly like graduate school for the higher IQ types. (Isn’t it nice of us to pay “tuition”?) They don’t pay the “emotional tax of poverty” that liberals talk about, because they are adapted to their environment. Lacking a frontier, we’ve created them for this group of people who chafe at societal restrictions.

Put them in prison for life, or put them in inner cities and don’t provide mass transit to the suburbs. Take your pick.