This was an interesting read. I came here after reading your more recent post about the Russian military, where you use the term “AngloZionist”.

I am Jewish and so reveal my own bias. But I am also an intellectual and open to ideas different from my own.

I see here several false assumptions that underpin your defense of the term.

For instance:

“The canonical answer is that Jews have been persecuted everywhere and that therefore they need their own homeland to serve as a safe haven in case of persecutions.”

RESPONSE – many Zionists do not use the persecution rationale rather the rationale that the Land of Israel is and has always been our homeland, and no, should not be taken by force but purchased fairly.

“The threat is so severe that a separate Gentile-free homeland must be created as the only, best and last way to protect Jews”

RESPONSE – No, no one (credible) ever suggested a Gentile-free homeland .Ever. Those who hold the Bible dear know that Jews always lived alongside Gentiles, even in the Promised Land.

“Third, since being Jew (or not) is a choice: to belong, adhere and endorse a tribe (secular Jews) or a religion (Judaics). Any choice implies a judgment call and it therefore a legitimate target for scrutiny and criticism.”

RESPONSE – while technically you are correct that everything we do is a choice, most Jews do not consider their membership in the Tribe to be a choice, but the reason they choose to remain identified or affiliated as Jews are so many and so complicated that is a gross over-simplification to refer to it as “a choice”. Every Jew’s choices are individuated.

“Do we really have to kowtow to all Jews, including the top 1% of Jews….”

RESPONSE: No.

Bottom line: While you are knowledgeable, it sounds like you are distorting Zionism and Judaism to fit your own Christian agenda.

Thanks for fulminating in a venue where I can read it.

I am not challenging your position on faith here.

But the point of scripture from my vantage point is not to engage in who believes and who doesn’t. In order to understand why the Jews and christians have a tight knot at the hip is understood in knowing scripture and how it applies to the nature of the interpersonal and interpersonal dynamic.

Whether they genuinely believed or not is a case for Christ, but wholly unimportant in comprehending the polity.

I think I have responded in full on this issue.

Unable to respond to the content, you once again rely on some personal retort.

it’s whether you are to effectively apply to the discussion —

Knowing scripture is not the issue, not even close. You lept into a discussion without first having a clue what the context was to the issues. Selectively removing my comments out of context to assuage your mistake — doesn’t help your case.

As for anyone aiding me, I am not sure you noticed — I ride on my own and I own my what I right.

Btw that Hebrew passage was a hoot. Fully capable of rendering even the best bot, totally catatonic.

Dear Mr. Giraldi -

One’s misuse of God’s Word by their own failure to keep it is proof they do not believe it.

A person can claim they are fundamentalist all they want; but if they do not do what Jesus teaches, they surely do not believe every word in the Bible is true.

We should always keep in mind – before pointing fingers anywhere – that God’s Word of Love and Truth is not the problem; it’s people who attempt to manipulate it to suit their own personal and political desires that’s the problem.

That would encompass seemingly all who continue in the practice of Judaism today (who do not believe the Word they claim, as it points quite clearly to Christ), as well as roughly 98% (+ or -) of the self-declared Christian world… those who claim Christ and yet ignore what He teaches, preferring their own way instead of His.

That said, it would also include about 100% of the Bible-blamers who sit on the sidelines (or on their pedestal) pointing fingers, tempting others to blaspheme, even as they don’t truly know or keep the Word of God themselves.

Hello Sparkon,
It wasn’t a chore reading your post. You write very well, with uncommon facility. I merely responded to what appeared a concerted and undeserved attack on ECI’s person. That wounds, both old and new, were opened by the Evangelical perspective could hardly pass unnoticed. My hope here is, these too shall heal. There were other posts; flotsam seeking higher station, properly deserving the charge of ‘gumming up the works’, which I don’t pick individually, but one can draw inferences. I suppose my characterisation of ‘your set’ was hasty and as is usual, haste leads to error. Mea culpa.

Still, I maintain ECI’s posts appropriate; given the author’s context in the main article. I reckon we may differ on the matter, but, it is not impossible for me to see Evangelism’s bones framing our Constitution, despite Jeffersonian circumspection, or rather because of it in meaningful ways :-).

Best

P.S.: I am always amused by those who use the ‘Troll’ click [not you] as if it tells anything more than the likelier case they are deeply uncomfortable with what the commentator writes in general and, rather find themselves at a loss for words. Why not simply use Ron’s handy little device of “Commenters To Ignore”?

You do realize that the policy with respect to N. Korea has been expressed in very hard line terms by Pres Trump —

Not Vice Pres Pence. His position if going to support that policy. If your comments are accurate, he is only espousing the views of the position and most of Congress. Hardly an indication that Pres Pence would be a worse executive because he is in line with the current rhetoric and policy.

Here’s the problem with the advance, Pres trump is far less schooled in scripture than VP Pence. And at no time has VP Pence expressed such extreme support for Israel as Pres Trump. And Pres Trump m was an evangelical and even held back. In fact, no christian conservative has been as pro-Israel as Pres Trump.

Time after time, the contentions against christian leadership fails to demonstrate any unique threat to the Republic.

One more example of how much worse Pence would be than Trump — Pence is at Korea Olympics determined to undermine North Korea.

Meanwhile, North Korea is breaking out of the caricature the West has drawn for it: NK sent attractively dressed ‘cheerleaders’ to the Olympics; North Korea and South Korea are exchanging signals of friendship and cooperation on several fronts.

Pence is not amused and is determined that US must and will play a role in any threatened attempt at a peace breakout between North Korea and South Korea; US is, after all, in charge of the international order.

interesting factoid: South Korea has one of the highest rates of suicide of all developed nations, at 24.7 deaths per 100,000 population. North Korea’s rate on the same 2017 WHO index was 15.2 deaths per 100,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_suicide_rate

Hmmmmm . . .,

I tend to be very supportive of fundamentalists, evangelicals and people of faith –

Appreciate your comments

I do not envy your position, very difficult to go it alone due to your conscience especially when dealing with your faith community; you expect better from your brothers in faith and religion is something that you look for in providing you with a community.

One can easily lose faith in this situation, and I hope you don’t.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Peace.

in response to your questions:

1. Not many, that I know. Minority may even be an understatement.

2. My first response was no. But then I consider some of the websites I included in previous response and I have to rethink my initial response.

http://republicbroadcasting.org/news/how-some-evangelicals-are-challenging-a-decades-long-stance-of-blanket-support-for-israels-government/

http://www.wildolive.co.uk/evangelical%20against.htm

But this a very small and slow growth. I and most evangelicals parted ways over invading Iraq and Afghanistan. And now as the Israel comes into focus, given my own bitterness, I am not sure there’s any way back for me. But I am not going to abandon christian involvement in the politics that govern their lives because of those disagreements.

Because I lean heavily in the direction of scripture, my views on the choice to engage in same sex behavior, pre-marital relations, color, feminism, among others will ensure I am unwelcome with nonevangelicals.

However, all christians would do well to walk lightly on this issue on whatever side.

Appreciated your observations and questions.

You have some nuanced views on this subject, these are appreciated in dealing with the US-Israeli relationship in a sane manner – how many evangelicals have you seen that think along your lines? From what I have seen, this is a minority position, but that impression maybe the result of a propaganda campaign to make their support seem inflated. Do you know if these sentiments – to demand less Israeli influence in our government and that Israel abide by international law – are growing in your community?

For instance, I do know that some of the younger evangelicals are open to working with Muslims on common issues of religion and morals that affect all of us:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/961608680918700032

Peace.

Hey Sam,

You make some fair points. Indeed, when fighting word salad with word salad, there is always the danger of being hoist by one’s own verbal veg-a-matic, even if ironically.

One needs to choose his food fights carefully, eh?

Just in passing, and mostly in jest, please understand that any frustration you detect oozing from my offerings here is probably the result of my writer’s block, which sometimes endures even for years on end, so that when it does finally lift for some brief time, I hasten to scrape together something presentable before said block descends upon me again…like a giant bullion cube, or matzo ball, if you can imagine that.

At any rate, your gallant defense of your cohort EliteComminc. didn’t address the issues with his comments that cannot be attributed to mere failure to proof, and therefore must have some other cause, such as:

510 EliteCommInc. says:
February 8, 2018 at 5:39 am GMT • 900 Words

First I did not question whether you or those or in your corner as I understand the discussion knew OT….

But previously
502 EliteCommInc. says:
February 8, 2018 at 12:03 am GMT • 100 Words

1. you don’t know enough about scripture or its relationship to why people believe what they believe regarding Israel.

So, first he says one thing, then — when challenged — he says something else. He spams us with a list of links about 9/11, but then says he’s trying to av[o]id discussion about it.

So it would seem your protégé wants to have it both ways: gum up the comments section with long trivial arguments, and jump from one issue word salad to the next, missing more than a few beets in the process, but leaving fundamentalist fish-heads, Zionist zucchini, and ridiculous religious radicchio scattered all over the place.

Where are those doggone articulate but capricious angels when you need one to untangle the babble, and get that word salad back in its bowl?

I note too your gracious but rather disingenuous attempt to explain away his false accusation that I had called him a “troll” when you wrote:

He remarked on the ‘troll’ issue for one simple reason, not that you called him a troll but someone in your set did. It’s a cheap shot, easily available and frequently used by those at a loss for words or coherent thought.

Ah, this is a new one for me. Without defining “my set,” and without offering any proof that I even belong to any “set” at all, you try to justify Elitecomminc.’s false accusation with this entirely contrived guilt by association schtick, speaking of cheap shots that are readily available, at least to you.

Well, I know it’s a challenge wading through all that “bleu-cheese” on my word salads, but even a casual reading of my comments at Unz should make it clear that I carefully avoid joining any of the coffeeklatches, knitting circles, or gratuitous back-slapping-fests that sometimes ensue, and instead rather purposefully more or less keep to myself, offering my comments only when that gigantic black bullion cube lifts enough that my verbal veg-a-matic has a clear field of fire. I think I have something to add to the discussion, and then, only after I have edited and proofed my word salad carefully, so that it’s all neatly served up on the salad dish, and not scattered all over the table, on the floor, the walls, even my interlocutor’s face.

Yeah, you really got to watch those weaponized veg-a-matics, maintain good fire discipline, and keep your blue cheese dry I mean wet spelled properly.

Here I must confess that I was also engaging in a torture test of sorts, not only to see if anyone would ride in to EC’s defense, but also mostly because I was considering the possibility that I was engaged in conversation with a bot spitting out machine translations, or possibly a tag-team of not-quite-articulate devils angels.

Speaking of machine translation, let’s give it a go with Google Translate, just for the sake of demonstration:

עגול, כמו גלגל של פודינג שוקולד מתגלגל בתוך מערבולת שם
כמו מערבולת משמים שמפריעה לך את השיער
כמו הדבר החום הזה באקרובטול שצף במשקה
כמו הדברים המבלבלים האלה שמסתובבים בתחתית הכיור
כמו גוש של משהו מסריח שנשפך מכל אגרטל
ועכשיו הוא פגע שוב במאוורר, ופונה אל פניך
כמו את hoeey שאתה מוצא, ב במוח של המוח שלך!

Even working from my doggerel, I daresay something might have been lost in the translation, but I await the word of Hebrew linguists, or lurking polyglots. However, even I can see that Google Translate somehow managed to misspell “hooey,” so obviously the service can’t cut the mustard, or even the blue cheese, when served a creative word salad like mine.

Excuse the delay —

I am not clear what to make of a contention that acknowledges a common practice among human beings — the use of community garnering resources to advance their agenda(s) – money being among them.

The Bible has been a top book before Jews arrived on the continent in any significant numbers. Did they eventually, garnet together to sell Bibles with a goal of influencing policy — perhaps, but so did the quakers, puritans, lutherans, methodists, catholics, and a host of others and they all bandied together to advance their agendas – even if said agenda was to be left alone.

Of the 88 Sec. of the Treasury, the number that claiming a jewish lineage is small and you need more to make a case of some ethical or legal impropriety that favored Jews out more than you present “extraordinary influence” is an ambiguous /vague term. 1935 – 1956 were extraordinary times: drought, depression, world war. Explain what you think he did that was in violation to help jews over anyone else. I would have thought if his influence was extraordinary, he would have convinced Pres Roosevelt to accept the passengers on the MS St Louis. Based on that example, it appears that Pres Roosevelt and the US public were “deciders” on policy – even when it came to jews.

You will not get pushback from me that we have an unhealthy relationship with Israel. It is entirely possible to support Israel and stay out of Syria. I am in complete agreement as previously stated — we have no business violating Syrian sovereignty.

I am not sure what the advance is here. I won’t support censoring bible sales or who sells them to whom or why. Scofield’s bible is one of thousands — end times is not a Jewish invention. And i do agree that at no point in scripture does end times anything — grant Israel a pass on violating international law. God’s chosen, comes with a very set of responsibilities.

I think there is abundant evidence that the US is too wedded to Israel that it distorts our policy agenda and is unhealthy for the US.

I think the evidence is overwhelming that AIPAC should register (maybe must is a better word) as a foreign lobby organization. Nothing about Israel is indicative of a uniquely effective foreign policy so as to enlighten the US.

If in fact Israel is going to dash around starting strife with her neighbors, she should have to deal with that as an adult member of the international community.

No US citizen should be punished for criticizing another state. Any member government employee who seeks such a policy – should be fired forth with — yesterday – that is just bizarre.

The US states is not and should not be making policy that restrict or deny earning a living because we don’t like the policies being advanced by said use, unless there is a legal or ethical violation. We haven’t even figured out to redress blacks without honing in on the plan to fix “whatever”. However, I think critiquing people and how they use their money to influence policy is fair game. However, acts by the Israeli government to punish, or in any way damage any US citizen because of their views, should be considered an attack on the US. And the use by any country of proxies to that bidding is no less egregious and should be treated the same. Especially offensive as the same tax payers are underwriting Israel’s defense.

Hollywood, Las Vegas, New York, and Chicago Jews are going to ave to take their knocks just like everyone else. They should also enjoy US protections as everyone else. But the interests and citizens of the US as to policy comes first. And that for me applies to mexicans, asians, etc.

But I am not going to abandon my belief that Israel has a right to exist and to a defense. How reliable they are as an ally is uncertain in my view. And i do not reject that if scripture is accurate and I lean that way — Israel is a unique player in world events. But nothing convinced me that gets them off the hook for behaving as a responsible partner in the international community.

Note: I am convinced that there is a war against people of faith and a concerted effort to remove such people from political participation — and there I stand immediately and adamantly opposed — regardless of anyone’s views on Israel – unless said views undermine the US or her citizens.

… lexical pirouettes…

Now that’s pure brilliance! Exceedingly descriptive.

I hope you don’t mind if I borrow it on occasion.

Both Orthodox and Catholics do not have “The Bible”. They have the Scriptures, γραφή/graphé, писание/pisaniye. They read in them something different from what the ‘Bible’ is purported to say (that Jews believe the land is destined as a gift from God and her boundaries are layed out in scripture):

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” (John 5:39-40).
“25 Then he [Jesus] said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself” (Luke 24:25-27).

The ‘Bible’ is the invention of Anglican ‘divines’, who started to mistranslate the Latin ‘biblia’ (from the same word in Medieval Latin and Late Latin and ultimately from Koine Greek τὰ βιβλία ta biblia “the books” [singular βιβλίον biblion] as a feminine singular noun. Latin biblia sacra “holy books” translates Greek τὰ βιβλία τὰ ἅγια ta biblia ta hagia, “the holy books”.

points for rapid improvement in the mix of your word salad; still need to balance the oil-to-vinegar ratio.

However — the critical point in comment #519 is the role of money, in very large amounts, that can accomplish things like launching The Bible to #1 best seller category and do so in times and places where precisely that influence is needed to support the megabucks-donor’s political agenda.

We know Jews have a great deal of money available to be deployed to achieve their goals.

Just learned from a vid on another thread http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/destroying-syria/#comment-2195310
that Jews who arrived in USA in 1935 – 1945 era (vastly subsidized by US taxpayers, one might add), they came with the determination:

““I won’t change for America, America is going to have to change for me.”
and
“Look, We’re changing America, we’re changing America.” So it was then OK to take your family there.”

And Jews did indeed deploy their wealth, as well as the resources of the American taxpayers over which US Secretary of Treasury Henry Morgenthau, Jr. exercised extraordinary control, to radically change American and to advance their agenda while simultaneously undermining the cultural values of the Americans already in USA.

Some of these activities involved flooding US with Jewish-friendly Bibles; some involved infiltrating Christian seminaries with distorted Bibles, i.e. Scofield; some involved applying the (allegedly) newly-assumed posture of aggressive self-assertion — making demands, rather than interceding, a hallmark of the “new Jew.” https://books.google.com/books?id=5_OXOwvjqjwC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=jewish+intercession+style&source=bl&ots=Ij96SN5fkk&sig=AhiuDr63hdglZFC-SHzvcwMhYMM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFtNKW-5TZAhVS3FMKHZW6AWsQ6AEIVjAL#v=onepage&q=jewish%20intercession%20style&f=false

(I know there’s an article in Jewish Telegraphic archive about Jews importing thousands of bibles into USA in the war years; I can’t find it right now. Came across these two items (before I got totally distracted — Archives are addictive):

World Organization to Rehabilitate Jewish Culture Will Be Formed Headquarters in London

https://www.jta.org/1946/09/22/archive/world-organization-to-rehabilitate-jewish-culture-will-be-formed-headquarters-in-london

I was curious about the Bible Museum. I could not locate what rank the Bible maintains in the US. But it remains the most read book in the world.

Now I think there may be some dispute compared to the Qu’ran. But by the ranks of two sources — that’s the case.

I think it is safe to say that it’s role in US polity is substantial whether one thinks it’s a fairy tale or absolute truth. And it is unlikely that any book has had as much influence in the lives of US citizens for good or ill. Bible Museum is hardly beyond the pale.

Which may explain why so many US citizens support Israel — regardless of whether one considers the matter a fanciful myth or raw truth.

As for the contention of colonization – it was not uncommon in history for various peoples to consider their destiny based on a supernatural belief and at times conquest. Pre-modern times there were no international tribunals or courts as we understand them today. Invoking God for cause was not unique top any unique group.

PS, I finally googled “internet troll” and while there are numerous colorful definitions, none of them apply. I’m certainly not trying to provoke extended exchanges. My only agenda is a little war on shoddy reporting, misleading statements, disinfo by omission, that sort of thing. You just stepped onto (into?) 2 annoying cases.

But I’m happy that you sputtered wildly, introduced new topics to obscure the weakness of the ones at issue, and put [absurd] words and ideas into my mouth. Kind of underscores, ya got nothin’.

when did I ever imply that I had evidence. You called it an assassination.

smearing me as a ‘hasbarist’ No, just careless.

was it something I said? Duh.

this discussion.

what discussion?

I don’t even know what your point is, unless that it’s to conflate some ethereal, amorphous ‘Christian’ heritage as some kind of expiation for the atrocity that is modern Israel.

Kudos indeed, but to you, as I verily succumb under the “shear”-ing you apply to the language. Sheer genius.

Parapraxis, thy name is Rurik.

Apparently you missed my views on Israel and am unaware that Jews are not that fond of me — not even close. And very little of my advocacy beyond Israel has a right to exist and self defense.

Wholly of no consequence in this discussion.

Tell me, how do you “drown a maelstrom” ?

well Sam, it’s not simple! And that’s why you’re the Unz own maven extraordinaire!

Because to drown a maelstrom, you have to inundate it with such oceans of monumental tripe, that it verily succumbs to the shear weight of bilious, bulbous sophistry. No mean feat that, to be sure!

kudos is in order

Brilliant, TY. But this museum, while in a prime location, is 2 blocks off the National Mall not on it – and that’s a huge distinction. I’m guessing it’s privately funded.

An upcoming event is a “half-day symposium will explore the Bible’s influence on the American Revolution and the founding of the United States of America.”

https://www.museumofthebible.org/

You may crave that either the Awan brothers or MS13 killed Seth Rich on orders of DWS,

huh?!

but that doesn’t equal evidence.

when did I ever imply that I had evidence. If anything, I said there was none. So who in fact is raving here?

not speculation or assumption such as your referring to Rich’s murder as an assassination.

I believe it was. Don’t I have that right? I never suggested I have evidence, and would simply like to see a real investigation that isn’t overtly hampered by the PTB.

These are just the sort of loose remarks that have relegated the need for a serious 911 investigation to the conspiracy bin. And similarly discredits you as a legitimate correspondent.

you’re just full of bile Robin, and have been since the day I showed up here. Following me around like my personal nemesis and relentlessly smearing me as a ‘hasbarist’ – and denigrating my character at every opportunity. What’s wrong, do you miss RTW and his vile brand of singularly obsessed hatred for Les Deplorables?

By implying that I somehow relegated the truther movement to the conspiracy bin’, only points to your hysterical dishonestly. Few people at Unz and beyond have been more tenacious in the quest for 9/11 truth than moi, I’m pleased to point out. And so your curious antipathy just looks more and more curious.

What, one wonders… fuels your recalcitrant rancor towards the humble and conciliatory Rurik?

why the aspersions and overt hostility, eh?

was it something I said?

“she forced me back to where the sun is mute.”

nah

doggerel
worthy only of being drowned in a maelstrom.

Elitecomminc is an Israeli Jew working in collaboration with Hobby Lobby heir/president Steve Green on the Museum of the Bible, recently opened on US Mall.

now that all makes perfect sense

ties it all together nicely, if true.

Jews did pretty much the same thing in Europe then in England several centuries ago — insisted that European and British people incorporate as their core mythology what was actually an alien and even adversarial mythology.

well all those shekels/gold the inbred, retarded monarchs of Europe borrowed from the Jews to wage wars on their inbred, retarded cousins over the centuries had to be paid back somehow, and so they agreed that the price would be enslaving the minds and souls of their people to the Jewish, biblical narrative, and the people of Europe would have a Jewish god imposed upon them and be forced to worship a Jew as their creator and savior. Such was the terrible price and folly of Europe’s hereditary rule. Just as Russia paid for it’s inbred, royal mediocrity with Jewish Bolshevism. Also a terrible price.

Cheers

My view on Andrew Bretbart’s death has nothing to do with MSM or ‘official’ coverage (of which I’m not even aware). It happens that I’m acquainted with a close friend and colleague of the deceased, who has explained in depth the circumstances of Andrew’s death and his well established health problems.

You may crave that either the Awan brothers or MS13 killed Seth Rich on orders of DWS, but that doesn’t equal evidence. I live in DC and have been in the chorus calling for better investigation, but that means finding facts, not speculation or assumption such as your referring to Rich’s murder as an assassination. The mis-statement-as-fact (see Matt Couch for example) is piss-poor-NOT-journalism, fund-raising click bait.

These are just the sort of loose remarks that have relegated the need for a serious 911 investigation to the conspiracy bin. And similarly discredits you as a legitimate correspondent.

Of course you don’t. When cornered, etc.

As I had anticipated, however, you did not fail to produce a treat. Please do not resist the urge to produce them; metaphors this time, receiving the full treatment of your talents.

Tell me, how do you “drown a maelstrom” ? Is that akin to “cutting a knife” or “wetting a rain” or “drying the air”? Or even “Rooter the Tooter”? I am curious.

Elitecomminc is an Israeli Jew working in collaboration with Hobby Lobby heir/president Steve Green on the Museum of the Bible, recently opened on US Mall.

Hobby Lobby & Green are fundamentalist Christians; the architect and design consultants on the ‘Museum’ are Jewish.
The museum is part Disney, part digital light-show, part archive for the thousands of bible-related artifacts Green acquired over the last 5 years — a chunk of them stolen, for which Green paid a fine.

Green laments that “people have forgotten about the importance of the bible in creating USA,” and is intent on making the bible more well known.

Jews in USA would have a keen interest in supporting this misbegotten project: it keeps people of USA dumbed down, and someone else is paying for it. What’s not to like?
Not implausible ECi is on the cheerleading team the Israelis are prepping — i.e. ECi is learning English, practicing on Unz — to promote The Biiible as THE book of the USA.
Jews did pretty much the same thing in Europe then in England several centuries ago — insisted that European and British people incorporate as their core mythology what was actually an alien and even adversarial mythology.

imo it is a profound tragedy for the USA to have a building like The Bible Museum so close to the US Capitol — almost as tragic as the freak-show holocaust museum just down the street.

The other day, Elon Musk sent his Tesla roadster deep into space; he’s aiming to colonize the moon.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/6/16980954/spacex-falcon-heavy-rocket-middle-core-failed-landing

The founder of Paypal is working on ways to eliminate death.

Someone commented on Chamath Palihapitiya recently. The core of Palihapitiya’s thinking is, people with boatloads of money make a difference.
And that’s true, of course.

People with boatloads of money and really bad and retrogressive ideas drag humanity, and the people of the USA — inexorably backward.

Imagine, colonizing the moon when your ideology is based on the “god-given right” to destroy other people and steal their lives, homes, and goods.

Would you be kind enough to point out a few examples

I really don’t have to Sam, like your paramour, your posts as well are a barrage of tortured language and lexical verbiage enough to drown a maelstrom.

it is fun tho to witness the feverish dissembling of the trolls here, I have to admit. So do, by all means carry on..

Your other screen name will be anonymous, because UR no longer permits sock puppets.

Would you be kind enough to point out a few examples of these “lexical pirouettes” you discovered, keeping in mind the definition of the word “lexical”? We might be in for a treat.

But as the discussion is not really about the truth of scripture but rather its role in polity — I don’t have much to say on the matter.

good!

please don’t say much on the matter more often

but then again, watching you do lexical pirouettes is sort of amusing, if it weren’t quite so pathetic

I won’t skirt the observations that I could and should improve my proof reading.
I do think that you have expressed my perspective fairly accurately.

I have come to accept that there are people who no matter what the issue will seek to discredit someone of an opposing view vis a vis their person. And its not kid sport. My goal is to practice staying in issue as opposed on personhood — no matter how dark or complex the discussion becomes.

If I lose the ability or eschew objectivity – I will use another screen name and respond from a more personal perspective —

I appreciate your observations.

thanks for your eloquent comment Sparkon

I doubt very much the troll EliteCommie is even a Christian

” Divorced men can’t serve on subs”

Of course they can, however as it was explained to me by my mother, his aunt, the reason why they do this is to avoid the occurance of someone under great stress, such as may be caused by divorce proceedings, so as to avoid the possibility of said individual doing something stupid, kind of makes sense,as he was the commander of the sub.

Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

placing palms over eyes on the matter of the influence of Scriptures on the FFs and therefore on our Constitution, the corpus of common law, the basic conduct of our public institutions etc. is misleading if not a deliberate ploy of sorts.

Wot! Say it ain’t so, Sam; truth-seeking truth-tellers traveling in sheep’s clothing in order to stealthily advance a partisan position?

I’m shocked! Shocked, I say! What’s a poor galactic pea-brain to do among the wolves?

troll — no you did not. I was referencing the noted troll identifier — I assumed it was meant for me and associated it with you — an unintentional mistake..

I may be clumping you along with others — if so and that association is incorrect — I certainly will withhold that assessment. But you interjected yourself in a long exchange about scripture and its relationship to the the US, Israel, Palestine and Christianity’s support for Israel — that included an attempt to dismiss the role of scripture in US polity with evidence by several founders.

there is also an ongoing exchange about the nature and fault of 9/11 and my position on those issues. Further you interjected comments about the tower of Babel — the intent of which, as I understood it was to disparage scripture’s veracity, my own or both as well as defend the position that the towers were felled by explosives as opposed to the aircraft. And you ended that bit with a reference about whether angels were confusing the debate as to why the towers fell. I simply made a joke about and proceeded as it really is irrelevant to the discussion. The point of the links was to provide the disagreements among engineers about how and why the towers fell. And that those disagreements among professionals is cause enough for others to challenge a conspiracy by Saudi Arabia, Israel and the US.

I did make a critique concerning the shallow depth of the retort as many people think that the reference to “we” or “us” is proof that aliens were controlling human development. But you weren’t that creative.

Essentially your comments directly reference all of those issues. Now your claim is that my comments are essentially incomprehensible — for various reasons. You coupled that with suggestions about my character. At no time did you ask me to clarify my comments — instead chose to challenge my writing ability as well as my intelligence.

moving to your response that I got it wrong —–

First I did not question whether you or those or in your corner as I understand the discussion knew OT — but rather that you are unaware of its role in the polities previously mentioned. That has been one of the nexus of the discussion(s)

Second, none of your responses address that issue. Given your line of analysis, it adds nothing to the matter of US polity in relation to Israel and Palestine — and it doesn’t matter how many Jews you know or don’t know. But as you are an agnostic, it makes no sense that you would engage in a discussion that an agnostic might claim is inconsequential. Instead, you responded with with a scriptural reference concerning a debate that has been ongoing about the Twin Towers since 9/11 occurred. And odd choice as agnostics would note the idea as peculiar — but that is your choice. So in mocking a dispute among various professionals — uh it may have been intended to mock me — but I am referencing their debate, not mine.

But your following comments about millstones, etc. is just bizarre as an agnostic it’s a peculiar distraction. When an agnostic doesn’t give a hoot one way or another — it’s just a non-factor. But you have relentlessly gone out of your way to critique the idea of faith in God and/or scripture. Further the issue has little to with one’s personal beliefs and there has been little if any discussion about whether one should believe or not — but rather what those beliefs are and the role they play in the politics concerning Israel. You and others have spent a lot of time criticizing the beliefs and ignoring the issue I think Dr. Giraldi was pressing — the roll of those of beliefs and their validity in advancing US goals and impact on international relations – including for the Palestinians.

Your reference to discrimination is a total loss to me. I have no idea why it’s part of the discussion as presented — it is not directly linked to 9/11, and the politics on the table — at least i don’t see the links. My only comment to the abrupt angle of affirmative action is — ok, it’s largely a gambit that benefits whites, especially white women, homosexuals and white foreigners (or those identifying as white). They have been the primary beneficiaries and have been shortly after its inception. That is a discussion one should have with their wife, daughter, sister, or girl friends — at least if one is white. Other than that — it just sticks out as a peculiar add on.

Again, it’s hardly convincing that one has an open mind if they are calling a system they claim to be open to — a fairy tale. But as the discussion is not really about the truth of scripture but rather its role in polity — I don’t have much to say on the matter.

I have already responded to the “troll” matter. But I suspect given the vein of your comments it’s a technical matter — so if I characterized your position, I am in error. That would not be intentional.

Your basic tone of address to your interlocutor displays frustration in plain view. As to his writing which he frankly admits could do with better proof-reading – whose doesn’t? Mine certainly do – I find its content elaborate since the subject demands elaboration. Yet succinct because he avoids the usual temptations. To call one of his posts a word salad with a missive more pointedly so, i.e. the green dish, except with an excess of bleu-cheese is, irony doing its best work.

One may be agnostic, religious or atheistic; none of that precludes the ability to engage in what man has chosen to call rational thought. But that is the provenance of Mankind’s self-congratulatory fits, rather the ‘poppycock’, surely.

ECI clearly points out that the discussion surrounding the Scriptures was not an exogenous item he inserted, rather more a central notion introduced by the writer, and, bandied about by the commentariat.

He patiently goes on to explain, without much sincere reciprocity obviously, that religiosity is not what he is preaching, but, placing palms over eyes on the matter of the influence of Scriptures on the FFs and therefore on our Constitution, the corpus of common law, the basic conduct of our public institutions etc. is misleading if not a deliberate ploy of sorts.

P.S. He remarked on the ‘troll’ issue for one simple reason, not that you called him a troll but someone in your set did. It’s a cheap shot, easily available and frequently used by those at a loss for words or coherent thought.

I think you are hiding the fact that

1. you don’t know enough about scripture or its relationship to why people believe what they believe regarding Israel.

No, you’re completely wrong.

I was raised Roman Catholic, and educated by Dominicans, Franciscans, and yes, Jesuits, who struggled to teach me Latin, and taught me how to draw the wee beasties while I was peering through a microscope.

I think we must have plowed through both OT and NT several times in the course of daily catechism class over the years, and certainly we all sat attentively through the good Father’s sermons every Sunday, Stations of the Cross during Lent, and every so often those tortuous High Masses that seemed to go on forever.

I’ve had also numerous Jewish friends, Jews in my family, and have worked for Jews, as well. I don’t like to stand in judgment of others, but when I do, it’s based on their actions, and not their identity.

I don’t condemn entire groups because of the actions of a relative few. We used to have this great word discrimination, but when it took on racist overtones, U.S. society seemed to abandon not only the word itself, but also the entire concept of separating the wheat from the chaff, and moved toward the whatever trope, and affirmative action.

Life is short; Art long; Opportunity fleeting; Experience treacherous; Judgment difficult.
–Hippocrates

So I’ve got no time in my life for poppycock. I can tell you it is a great millstone lifted from the brain –and soul– when you cast off man’s ancient superstitious fairy tales, and rely instead on your own brainpower to behold and ponder this amazing and beautiful world. I know that may be difficult when your millstone is mired in a massive mosh pit of myth and mumbo jumbo, but pull it on out, and give it a shot.

Think for Thyself.

I am therefore agnostic, as I readily acknowledge the logical possibility of a deity or even deities, but accept that it may be beyond my power to comprehend any that might exist. Not that it will stop me from trying. Considering the vast, virtually incomprehensible extent of the cosmos, I have a very hard time accepting the idea that Homo sapiens is the preeminent sentient species in the universe. In the face of my ignorance, I choose to keep an open mind, rather than be a slave to some ancient fairy tale.

As I’ve said, I was raised Christian, and I retain Christian values, especially the Golden Rule, and the rump of the Ten Commandments, starting with the one about mom and dad.

Conclusions which are merely verbal cannot bear fruit, only those do which are based on demonstrated fact.
– Hippocrates

You said:

Ah, “troll”, there’s a unique response. Good grief.

I didn’t call you a troll.

Either you’re a liar, or your reading comprehension is even worse than your poor writing. And don’t forget that commandment against Bearing False Witness. ‘Not to suggest that any Christians could ever be some of the world’s biggest hypocrites, even against some very stiff competition.

Finally, to wrap this up back on topic, I agree with Philip Giraldi. Order is preferable to chaos.

Read my post. I didn’t suggest anything

The Bible is why I stopped believing in God around age 7. I love Catholic and Russian & Greek Orthodox art and architecture though.

Divorced men can’t serve on nuclear subs? Hard to believe as a divorced navy nuclear engineer nephew recently took early retirement from the navy. He got divorced years ago when he was still in navy nuke school.

You’re preaching to the wrong people.

Isn’t there a church or bible school where you can go to preach about the Bible?

Why preach about it here?

While i must always own my issues with writing.

I think you are hiding the fact that

1. you don’t know enough about scripture or its relationship to why people believe what they believe regarding Israel.

2. It’s frustrating when your own examples contradict the premise of your position.

3. The case for a conspiracy beyond the Osama Bin Laden actors has rational opposition.

4. When the end of a discussion is is a series of name calling, personal attacks, complaints about writing it’s a safe bet that the complainants have no more arguments to offer.

If something is unclear, state what you don’t understand or ask for clarification or choose not to respond.

Ah, “troll”, there’s a unique response. Good grief.

I tend to think, it’s bound to fail, but time will tell.

a garbage disposal that backfired, or a weaponized veg-a-matic.

lol

any chance ECi could do something for my dead disposal?

Bot any attempt to illicit a agreement on whether anyone else was involved in 9/11 just by listening to your point of view is simply not going to happen. And what those links indicate is that there is plenty of opposing data to the charge of a conspiracy outside of Osama Bin Laden is has problems.

[..]Let’s suffice it to say, you don’t have a clue about why scripture matters to Israel, or the US and their relationship. And its relevant whether you believe in said scripture or not.

This is your mental mosh pit in action, creating a tangled, mangled word salad that condensed from the whirling hooey between your ears, reached escape velocity, and vented to the atmosphere from you-know-where, like a garbage disposal that backfired, or a weaponized veg-a-matic.

‘Sorry to break it to you, EliteComminc., but your weakness with words and poor English make you ill-suited for this kind of work, and certainly not an ideal or even viable interlocutor for any serious debate, which in any case I usually try to avoid with religious zealots, and other true believers including Christians, Jews, and Muslims, even when they are quite articulate about their chosen fairy tale, as are several commenters here, to exclude you.

I suggest you go pray now.

I remain where I came in — invading Afghanistan was unnecessary and a mistake.

Sadly Trump is listening to the generals. Seventeen years and counting – now we are bombing with B-52s – killing god knows who.

Mr. Trump – listen to your intuitive self – stop the useless wars – the generals cannot deliver – they cannot kill their way to peace – PERIOD!

Mr. Trump – defend the US homeland NOT Israel.

Think Peace — Art

I could certainly improve proof reading.

As for the links, reference them or not. Bot any attempt to illicit a agreement on whether anyone else was involved in 9/11 just by listening to your point of view is simply not going to happen. And what those links indicate is that there is plenty of opposing data to the charge of a conspiracy outside of Osama Bin Laden is has problems.

And that not everyone who doesn’t agree with your conclusions has plenty of rational reasons to be skeptical of the charge.

Hmmmmmm . . . interesting that you sidestepped the real point of the Babel response and jumped to a fairly shallow assail. You could have adopted something more creative such as.

Why the scriptural reference uses the “we” or “us” — when there is only one God.
And the fact more interesting notion that that the use of either term is more indicative of aliens being mistaken for Gods. And confusing the languages was an attempt to control human advancement. That at lest would have been interesting. But in rush to make it personal (in my view) is seek an avenue of escaping the issue is to engage in personal attacks.

Let’s suffice it to say, you don’t have a clue about why scripture matters to Israel, or the US and their relationship. And its relevant whether you believe in said scripture or not. Nor are you seriously interested in how that relates to Palestine and their relationship to Israel or the territory in question. And your inability to extricate scripture the issue is frustrating.

Worse, even the founders value scripture. And that in a choice between Pres Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin in criticizing scripture falls flat. And appealing to them, just reinforces the value that the bible plays in US political thought. I understand how frustrating that might be.

appreciate the admonition on the semantics of my comments.

Sparkon to EliteCI –

…. kindly don’t spam the comments section with a raft of links, along with tedious passages littered with bad spelling, laborious grammar, mysterious logic, and religious proselytizing.

You’re taking up a lot of bandwidth here with your keyboard diarrhea ….

Perfect.

I’m thinking EliteCommInc. may be farming some work out to EliteBotInc.

thanks for the video —
so effortless and pure

If you’re going to “avid” a debate, then kindly don’t spam the comments section with a raft of links, along with tedious passages littered with bad spelling, laborious grammar, mysterious logic, and religious proselytizing.

You’re taking up a lot of bandwidth here with your keyboard diarrhea flooding this venue with vapid, sophomoric arguments, and many of your comments don’t even rise to that level:

Whether or not Gods angels are involved in confusing the discussion on Twin Tower structural engineering is a tough call.

More hilarious than tough, I’d say. But let us know when you figure it out. Please report back later with your findings. Much later.

—

Round, like a wheel of chocolate pudding churning in a vortex there
Like a whirlwind down from heaven that is messing up your hair
Like that brown thing in the punchbowl that is floating in the drink
Like those messy things found spinning at the bottom of your sink
Like a crock of something smelly pouring out from every vase
And now it’s hit the fan again, and heading for your face
Like the hooey that you find, in the mosh pit of your mind!

Sincere apologies to singer Noel Harrison, composer Michel Legrand, and English lyricists Alan and Marilyn Bergman of the Oscar winning classic “The Windmills of Your Mind” from The Thomas Crown Affair.

I remain where I came in — invading Afghanistan was unnecessary and a mistake.

I think might want to check the record on Pres trumps views Afghanistan, he as with most of the country supported it and continues to do so.

I think invasion was folly from the start. But what to do, american women, wanted to export murdering children and bikini waxing . . .

excuse my sarcasm.

There is clearly data that is correct and data that is incorrect.

All data exists under a set of conditions (qualifiers) that explicate its veracity.

Moral and ethical right and wrongs demand solid and consistent foundations — I tend to there are moral absolute rights and wrongs. I think Kant is the secular model for that perspective. And that is a very demanding model for one’s personal, social and professional life.

I am going to avid a debate on the engineering because it’s clear the engineers don’t agree. And even those that challenge the “official” narrative don’t conclude that a different conspiracy exists betond the Osama bin Laden contingent.

Whether or not Gods angels are involved in confusing the discussion on Twin Tower structural engineering is a tough call.

But given our history, human beings are quite capable of confusing matters even when they speak the same language.

Short answer:

My opening comment addresses this. The death and resurrection of Christ changes the dynamic here, And delving into pre-christian era polity concerning God’s commands to Israel and the strategic arena the people’s of that time engaged are tough to reconcile by the views we hold today.

It requires more than I am willing to chart — others would e happy to do so I am sure.

Every Catholic that attends mass here’s old testament and new testament scripture — it read every Sunday.
——

The problem with these founders is nor with me. it’s with Christ, because he and the Apostles routinely used OT scripture. So a christian is more likely to adhere to Christ’s example more than some revolutionaries. He denied the miracles which kept form the same text from which he attempts to mold Jesus into a nice guy who was kind — an exemplar of the “new age” Jesus, as opposed to the one who,

“I am the resurrection and the life, no man comes to the father but by me.”

So much for the intellectual integrity of Pres. Jefferson.

From that first link you gave in Live Science [sic]:

When each jet cut its way into a building, it took with it parts of walls and ceilings, Simensen said. Steel bars in those walls would have gashed its fuel tanks, which would have caught fire. With the plane positioned somewhere in the middle of the building, blanketed in debris and with no route for heat to escape…

Apparently there was no route for this heat to escape other than through those big, airplane-shaped holes in the facade of both buildings. But yeah, we know that those were not the holes the heat was looking for to make its escape.

And I guess this must have been special, dual purpose aluminum that was capable of cutting through steel box columns one instant, being gashed by steel bars the next.

How did that work?

With “experts” like this Simensen, who needs idiots?

Well anyway, it’s too bad Nimrod and his gang didn’t have some of that magic aluminum when they built the Tower of Babel:

But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

– Genesis 11:1-9 New International Version

So we must assume that those zealots who work to “confuse their language” are doing their Lord’s work, eh? Too bad the Lord didn’t plan ahead like those guys who blew up the WTC did, but at least he had a stenographer.

Nothing in scripture would authorize the taking of property that is not yours by force. In other-words, there’s nothing in scripture that I could attend that permits taking anyone’s museum, unless you purchased it.

I’m not thoroughly conversant in the bible — I’m of the Roman Catholic tradition and of an age/era that memorized Catechism (which amounted to a primer of Aristotelian/Aquinian philosophy) — but I’m pretty sure Hebrew scriptures not only “authorize” but direct and sanctify “taking property that is not yours by force.” If I’m not mistaken the book of Joshua details that pretty explicitly.

15 On the seventh day, they got up at daybreak and marched around the city seven times in the same manner, except that on that day they circled the city seven times. 16 The seventh time around, when the priests sounded the trumpet blast, Joshua commanded the army, “Shout! For the Lord has given you the city! 17 The city and all that is in it are to be devoted[a] to the Lord. Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall be spared, because she hid the spies we sent. 18 But keep away from the devoted things, so that you will not bring about your own destruction by taking any of them. Otherwise you will make the camp of Israel liable to destruction and bring trouble on it. 19 All the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron are sacred to the Lord and must go into his treasury.”

20 When the trumpets sounded, the army shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the men gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so everyone charged straight in, and they took the city. 21 They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

Whatever else might be said about the significance of the bible to USA founders, passages such as the above were rejected by men such as Thomas Jefferson — documents substantiate this– and must be rejected by anyone who, like Jefferson, holds estimable the “life and morals of Jesus.” http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/jeffbsyl.html

With all due respect, it sounds as if you take a view of the battlefield from middle ground, not a position I typically choose. Interesting though, that historically this has been a preferred battlefield position chosen by the Rothschild house.

Not saying you’re part of that clan, just that you appear to choose a similar battlefield strategy, given your “argumentum ad temperantiam.”

I’m not in the fight for money or power, simply for principle.

It’s either right or wrong.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

‘The best business I ever did.’ –Nathan Mayer Rothschild

Battle of Waterloo
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Waterloo

“Best and brightest young guys”

My cousin and I joined up the same day, he the Navy and myself the Army. I ended my service time as an E-5, and he ended up as a Navy Captain, having gone through the commissioning procedure, and retiring after commanding a nuclear, yes nuclear, sub until his wife submitted divorce papers and he was then taken off the sub under standard security policy.
He also earned a PhD in nuclear physics.
I was not “Mensa” qualified until long after my military stint, however a very interesting and telling incident occured far earlier namely spring 1955 : I was in high school in Detroit, which at that time was still a civilized world-class metropolis, serene and prosperous, and the Wayne county school system which encompasses Detroit, did IQ testing on it’s total high school population.
Anyway my mother was called, shortly before summer recess, to school by my counselor, and at dinner that evening I asked her what the reason was for her visit to my counselor, to which she replied that he had informed her that I showed up amongst the top eight highest determined IQs, and he alluded that I was actually number one. So touche’ to you and have a nice day.

Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

And among the varying Taliban community leaders, there was disagreement among themselves how to address the situation. In either case, violating the sovereignty of Afghanistan was the least effective choice and has only complicated matters while leaving the US overexposed and overextended. not to mention the needless waste of resources and manpower.

Just watched a committee hearing on C-Span – we war spending 45 billion a year in Afghanistan (plus blood).

The Taliban hold more territory than ever. We are bombing them with B-52s, killing god knows who.

We have pissed off Pakistan – they are sending refugees back to Afghanistan, further complicating matters.

Every way we turn, there are no good answers. The generals have not delivered and cannot deliver a way out of this mess. They cannot kill their way to peace.

They have had their chance. It is time to leave the area. (Send the incompetent generals back to school.)

Hey Trump – as you originally thought – it is a waste of time and money. The generals cannot deliver – change course. The sooner the better!

America first – defend the homeland – not Israel.

Think Peace — Art

your question is presents a false dilemma. If one can submit additional evidence for the terrorist attack on 9/11 that helps locate those responsible they should do so.

I have previously answered those question., What is missing from the case that either Israel, Saudi Arabia or the US engaged in a conspiracy to unite the US for war or profit are the links between the dots.

The building collapse and has been discussed for 17 tears. The problem is that the experts disagree.

https://www.livescience.com/16179-twin-tower-collapse-model-squash-9-11-conspiracies.html

http://www.debunking911.com/towers.htm

http://skepticproject.com/articles/911/twin-towers/page/2/

And then of course there are these:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/new-9-11-audiotapes-show-how-crisis-unfolded-1.1033424

http://themillenniumreport.com/2014/08/911-phone-calls-from-airliners-were-faked/

https://kendoc911.wordpress.com/911-flights/911-phone-calls/phone-calls-from-flight-93/

http://www.911review.com/articles/larson/FakeCallsCritique.html

now U get the press here. It’s called The Scottsman Fallacy In short if i don’t agree with you what is the definitive case as posited, I must be a dupe. The problem is that there are several competing theories and none are definitive. There are plenty of unanswered questions, suspicious circumstances — but connecting those dots has been a very tough slog.

Given that there are pending potential legal cases — the case for who and what caused 9/11 is not closed.

https://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2016/10/05/congress-go-ahead-911-lawsuits-saudi-arabia/

https://nypost.com/2017/03/20/families-of-911-victims-file-suit-against-saudi-arabia/

For me there’s nothing new that would change my mind.
But most importantly, the case is not closed officially, there are still those pursuing redress against Saudi Arabia. I don’t think there is any evidence that the Saudi government knowing aided in the attacks.

The Scripture is clear:
“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof” (Matthew 21:43).
‘You’ are the Jews.

In addressing these questions, i am responding in the context of today —

The reality that dealing with Israel and Palestine includes biblical issues is not a problem for me to grasp – not a problem for me. It doesn’t matter whether or not you or I believe the bible has relevance, millions of others do, including Israel. It would not be unwise to know what those issues are –

The establishment Israel is a reality. There is nothing in scripture that would justify unwarranted killing of anyone by Israel. As has been repeatedly demonstrated — What scripture intends is debated among christians. I think Israel should get out Palestine, in my view it is a violation of a sovereign space. I have also stated that Israel’s occupation of the land after UNRES 181 was unethical and careless administered. In my view, it was an example of ethnic cleansing and stealing, something that 181 did not authorize. But I believe Israel has a right to exist. No being a christian is not a loophole to violate the ten commandments, including theft.

Nothing in scripture would authorize the taking of property that is not yours by force. In other-words, there’s nothing in scripture that I could attend that permits taking anyone’s museum, unless you purchased it. Because the UN is the governing authority on international disputes – especially as it pertains to Israel and Palestine, Israel in violation of the law by holding territory the UN has decided in not theirs.

That is not what I said. in response to the assertion of preaching as to the purpose for christian based on the advance of the respondent. You are taking those comments out of context.

If you haven’t already seen these videos, they offer some credible crime evidence.

Do you think this evidence justifies a re-examination of the 9/11 crime, and its official 9/11 Commission Report?

A simple “yes” or “no” answer would be adequate.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission_Report

1. that support for Israel comes from a large body of people who believe it’s a biblical expectation
2. that Israel herself believes the land is destined as a gift from God and her boundaries are layed out in scripture.
It is very difficult to discuss the question of Israel in relationship to Palestine without referencing scripture. I cannot solve that reality for you.

a. I cannot solve that reality for you –
I can solve it myself quite easily; you could too if you understood the difference between mythology and reality. But it suits your purposes to evade, deny, and obfuscate that enormous distinction.

I am careful at claiming the mantle of christian, I certainly lean that direction. but as I understand the christian faith and practice essentially its two facets: walk the walk and preach to the unbeliever. That is the so called mission. And depending on how one looks at it — it appears that whites are more in need of preaching as you indicate

Preach to the unbeliever!! Bring it on!!

Does that mean that if I become a believer I can claim a chunk of someone else’s property and kill them if they fail to give it to me an leave?

I’m worried, tho, that I got caught in a conversion-warp: I just had a direct communication from god. She said I should turn holocaust museums all over the USA into roller skating rinks. God said she was a champion rollerskaer in an earlier life and considers roller rinks the equivalent of cathedrals.
Let’s roll!

Hey, this is cool.

Anyone else have any messages from god that mandate mass killing, dispossession, and mayhem?

PS I gather rationality is not your first language.
First you say that whites are most in need of preaching to (i.e. least ‘Christianized,”), then you say that white Christians are the greatest enablers of Israel’s genocidal agenda.
Which is it?

Nearly all of what we have come to accept as modern science is derived from Christians. There are more white Christians than there are blacks who hold similar beliefs.

US
43% white population — 120,000,000

83% black population — 70,000,000

I am careful at claiming the mantle of christian, I certainly lean that direction. but as I understand the christian faith and practice essentially its two facets: walk the walk and preach to the unbeliever. That is the so called mission. And depending on how one looks at it — it appears that whites are more in need of preaching as you indicate — they are by proportionally less likely to believe in christian faith and practice.

Gere’s an interesting note, of all the Christians in the US those with white skin are the most likely to give Israel a carte blanche’ on any act she engages. As much as 60% of the US public supports Israel. given that blacks comprise some 14% of the population and 43% of them support Israel then,

based on the advocacy here by some — the most damaging population to US interests are white whether christian or not. If every black disappeared tomorrow. The issue of Israel and her policies would remain as would religious component of the issues. So if Israel is a problem for the US, whites are the largest barrier to preventing resolution.

nor did the state of Afghanistan know or act in concert with Bin Laden and associates.

no shit

because Bin Laden had nothing whatsoever to do with it

9/11 was a crime by non-state actors.

not true

because Israel and the ZUS deep state perpetrated the crime, and Israel is a (pariah) state

I did not interject scriptural references. That was done by the author and why he did so was reasonable considering”

1. that support for Israel comes from a large body of people who believe it’s a biblical expectation
2. that Israel herself believes the land is destined as a gift from God and her boundaries are layed out in scripture.

It is very difficult to discuss the question of Israel in relationship to Palestine without referencing scripture. I cannot solve that reality for you.

Whether one believes in god, scripture or anything else, knowing a key feature of the issue — such as biblical context is not a bad idea.

Short version: regardless of how many actors or planners in Bin Laden’s attack they did not act on behalf of the state of Afghanistan, nor did the state of Afghanistan know or act in concert with Bin Laden and associates.

equivocate: To use words of equivocal or doubtful signification; to express one’s opinions in terms which admit of different senses, with intent to deceive; to use ambiguous expressions with a view to mislead; as, to equivocate is the work of duplicity.

I maintain one position here. Based on the governments case for invasion , the act of 9/11 was a crime by non-state actors. And it should have been treated as such.

This site is not a Bible class. Are you some kind of missionary? Go preach to some 70 IQ blacks as they are the demographic most likely to believe in the Bible.

Elitecomminc believes in the Bible. People who believe that collection of myths and fairy tales will believe anything.

82nd Airborne?

Nope I ended up in a “leg” unit,

That’s interesting. With all your jazz chops, language fluency, and “Mensa” qualifications, I’m surprised frankly, that you didn’t end up at least in a marching band, or maybe even one of those other specialized units that might have made good use of your talents.

I don’t know if the Army would be the first choice of all the best and brightest young guys who think about enlisting — rather than going into the Air Force or Navy, for example — so that even a bright star would not necessarily stand out in the galaxy of shining lights in the ranks of the U.S. Army, or something like that.

I suppose not only did the Army have more wannabe jumpers than it needed, but also more guys who could blow their own horns than the Army had bands, and more geniuses than G2 had seats for them to warm.

What’s a poor private to do, I guess, but fall in, shape up, and march off?

Incidentally, did you ever get promoted?

Every one in the colonies including the slaves were schooled on the collection of myths fables and fairy tales known as the Bible. Except for holy roller sanctimonious Quakers, every colony has a state religion and numerous preachers.

Go thump your bible elsewhere

They are not Christians

it’s not the numbers that were an equivocation, it’s the language here

Bin Laden’s cadre knew or were in any way responsible for the tragedy of 9/11.

it means two things simultaneously, i.e. that Bin Laden and his cadre were responsible, or “were in any way responsible”, which implies by a literal interpretation of the words, that they were not responsible.

if you say the FBI “were in any way responsible” for spying on the Trump campaign, then you’re suggesting that they were not responsible.

comprendi?

as for the war on Afghanistan, we all know it’s a sham and a fraud. Duh.

as for responsibility for 9/11, all we need to know is that the Mossad was filming the first plane to “document the event”, and that building seven’s implosion was reported on the BBC and Fox News before it fell. Which means that whomever handed those news agencies the script describing the fall, ‘it was damaged by fires’, blah, blah..

…knew it was going to collapse (into its footprint at free-fall speed). So it was conceived, planed and perpetrated by actors of the ZUS deep state with Israeli, Mossad complicity / cooperation and with the ((controlled msm)) to ride herd on the public.

duh

” It couldn’t have been the 173rd”

The subject here is : “Divisions” and the 173rd is not, and never was a “Division”.

So much for your knowledge of US military facts, as to be expected from a clueless BSer such as yourself.

Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained Us Army vet, and pro Jazz musician

Being generous on a number that is not definitive is hardly having it both ways.

I am being generous by expanding the number. In other-words, even at thirty, actors, not in any way connected to the state, would not be cause for war.

My acknowledgement of what is an ambiguous composition: doubtful or uncertain especially from obscurity or indistinctness.an ambiguous term. a deliberately ambiguous reply. — ambiguously.

I think it’s less than twenty. But if that number reaches thirty (as unlikely as it is) it does not change my position. Nor does it shift the forthright position that the act was a crime, not a state act of war by Afghanistan and there is no evidence that Afghanistan had anything to do with it.

Nor did the loose confederation of what comprised the government involved. And among the varying Taliban community leaders, there was disagreement among themselves how to address the situation. In either case, violating the sovereignty of Afghanistan was the least effective choice and has only complicated matters while leaving the US overexposed and overextended. not to mention the needless waste of resources and manpower.

That is my position regardless of whether the number of planners and actors are 10, 20 or 30.

I have not made any comments about the veracity of the governments case. But based on the case that was made, invasion was unnecessary and an ineffectual strategic choice.

Hey Geo,

No, there was never a chance for an objective investigation to discover what truly happened or who the real culprits were.

Likely – the military industrial complex was already licking their chops over the gravy train that was going to be rolling their way, likewise the deep-state, likewise the Israeli-firsters, likewise…

Too many had too much to gain to pass it up.

But one can of course wish it would have gone otherwise.

Peace.