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d4cd70  No.15552526

Pros

>Pathfinder and not some retarded shit like PoE or Torment's made for the game yet still shit rulesets

>Moderate-high difficulty

>mildly interesting plot thus far

>no purple prose

>A lot of difficulty sliders to customize different aspects of difficulty

>The least leftist taint in a nu-CRPG

Neutral for me but some people may be autistic about

>RTwP

>not 100% accurate to pathfinder especially with monsters even with all the difficulty sliders set to pen and paper accurate

Cons

>The ruler management is essentially completely detached from the CRPG aspect. You can treat the kingdom as a complex series of numbers you try to keep above a fail state but anything above it is equal as you gain essentially no benefit from it (exception to this rule is one-off projects that are unlocked with some events that give you buffs in the CRPG stage while in your own land. One makes you immune to poison, one is +1 to hit and damage, stuff like that)

>Spell list is very small

>there is still some leftist taint despite it being a fucking russian game (there is a bisexual half-orc and a human or half-elf woman in an open relationship. The half-orc will hit on you. Some claim there's fag shenanigans going on somewhere, have not been able to confirm yet but assume that's true)

>Bethesda quality Q&A, bugs everywhere, some gamebreaking (I haven't encountered any) especially on linux

>devs have stated early game encounters are scaled incorrectly but haven't said when this will be fixed (a week ago, still no word on that)

>Recruiting not-gimped mercenary companions who you create is almost exorbitantly expensive, 2000 for a level 2, 8000 for a level 4, a level 7 is around 24000 IIRC

>Dice rolls may not have even probability as some people have claimed after a hundred or so tests 10~% CTH for enemies hit 40~% of the time with roughly opposite results for the player and similar results for saving throws (AI always seems to succeed, PCs rarely)

>At the start there are 5 companions 2-3 of which will join you and the rest your rival depending on your choices, 4 of which are women, all of which are complete shit compared to an optimized character (the fighter has fucking 14 STR)

>The fucking halfling cunt with the kike hair can't be dismissed and laughs at you whenever you try to kick her out of your barony

>Magic weapons more common than BG which felt too common for me

>long loadscreens constantly

Recommend you pirate it for now as on a technical level it's very poor. The content thus far is pretty decent to the point where I may buy it on sale for $10 or less.

PUT IT ON YOUR SSD

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8844b60440234614e184e0204ef4099364cee46d&dn=Pathfinder+Kingmaker-CODEX&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ccc.de%3A80

Unpatched version from TPB

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:d8d66cd468565c6904662eaba6ab8a75a9566428&dn=Pathfinder+Kingmaker+Update+v1+0+1-CODEX&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ccc.de%3A80

Patch 1.01

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b55f623a9e1d03d1fe8992bbfaae6a94552d6747&dn=Pathfinder+Kingmaker+Update+v1+0+3-CODEX&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ccc.de%3A80

Patch 1.03

Did not find 1.04 on TPB yet, but it doesn't really fix much so who gives a fuck

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1734340257885097701/

Some portraits (mediocre-low quality) and instructions on how to make your own. As far as I know you can't do it for NPCs, including story or existing companions.

If you're starting a new game level 1 mercs cost 500 gp and you get them from eight-fingers inside oleg's station (the building itself). If you've got the money before you level up then get one (or multiple) as the price rises rapidly.

There are a lot of difficulty options. Enemy difficulty I believe is an additive modifier to basically all of an enemies stats. +4 to all attributes (STR DEX etc) and +2 to derived stats (to-hit, AC, etc) thus from easy-normal goes from -4 to hit and AC to +0 (of the game's default not pathfinders, basically no monsters are pathfinder accurate) and difficult is +4 to hit and +4 AC and so on. Apparently easy will make common mobs weaker than pathfinder and difficult encounters roughly pathfinder accurate, while normal will make weaker mobs PF accurate and stronger mobs well above PF.

Feel free to discuss other CRPGs

3635bf  No.15552533

Attention: There's a bug in 1.06 that stacks shit like DR and stat bonuses from equipment infinitely on every reload. So if you pirated it, don't bother updating past 1.05.


d4cd70  No.15552578

>>15552533

Do 1.04 and 1.05 do anything of note?


3635bf  No.15552587

>>15552578

There's a bug that makes the spell list during level up invisible that gets fixed with 1.05.


98008c  No.15553112

>>15552587

1.05 is over 2gb big but begun to witness several annoying bugs in 1.03 so im switching over


6e85c4  No.15553208

File: 8215d0b6943489a⋯.png (2.99 MB, 1600x900, 16:9, blank.png)

Does anyone know if there is a way to add text to a mercenary's biography, or whatever you have to do in order to make this not blank? Asking because it feels awkward when it shows me a companion's story, but then the next loading screen shows me a mercenary with a blank page as if I want to bask in the art and name I chose.


d4cd70  No.15553227

>>15553208

Isn't there a biography field you can fill out on their sheet?


084b59  No.15553284

>>15553227

If there is I couldn't find it.

I just went and made myself an entire merc party. I hit level 11 with enough gold to buy 4 new mercs (cost is about 61k at level 11), so I wanted to re-optimize the ones I had and get some new ones for fun and to replace the last couple NPCs. I'm especially liking my monk/rogue with over 40 effective AC, the three levels of rogue were mainly so that I could sac Strength and add Dex to my melee damage, but the 3d6 sneak attack damage doesn't hurt either.


d4cd70  No.15553326

>>15553284

Trying to get sneak attacks in ToEE really puts into perspective how powerful PF:K sneak attacks are. So other than taking 4 or 5 levels of fighter for an extra attack what can you do to maximize sneak attacks for a mostly-rogue?


084b59  No.15553371

>>15553326

Obviously roll a Knife Master dual wielding Kukris. Note that while there are NO kukris early on (you can buy ONE masterwork at the trading post) there are a pair of very nice ones near the end of chapter 3 with +2, keen, and Fire/frost.

Beyond that, I HIGHLY recommend the Outflank, Precise Strikes, and Seize the Moment teamwork feats. They are basically all free damage/hit chance/attacks as long as your flanking partner also has the feats.

I don't think leveling Fighter for the BAB is going to be worthwhile. Pure rogue is probably your best bet, or you could play around with an Arcane subclass in order to use Sense Vitals (level 2 spell, adds stacking sneak attack damage).


d4cd70  No.15553403

>>15553371

Well with fighter over pure rogue you get one more max attack as well as extra attacks sooner with the cost of one max d6 to sneak attack. I don't know anything about multiing with a caster but how would a taking fighter not be worth it over pure rogue?

My MC is the rogue and I took him straight instead of knife master so that door is closed


5bdca9  No.15553421

TL;DR Does anyone know where the third magister advisor is? I have the Storyteller and Octavia.

Also when can I build roads and other region improvments? I've annexed north and south narlmarches, the outskirts, kamelands, and silverstep. I've beaten the trolls and I have about 20 days left until the second shitstorm with those interdemensional spiders.

So pardon me while I complain about not enough game features and stupidity;

I get the choice for magister advisor finally, and my only choices are storyteller and Octavia. But Storyteller is a great curator since he builds culture and helps preserve local tradition and stories. Other choice for curator is Linzi, but she would shit it up with her everything is art programs, and Jaethal which I was surprised, but I wouldn't have a problem if her alignment wasn't on the evil spectrum.

So I get a choice down the line to accept all sorts of arcane and I go for it since my magister choice of Octavia helps improve arcane a lot more due to her saying all magic should be allowed. Suddenly next event that happens I get necromancers that come in, but they're not bad they ask if they can open shop and propose an idea for practicing necromancy only with licenses, where people sell a piece of their soul so after they die their body can be of use. So I think hell that's a great idea and approve. Then Octavia says well I don't approve but you're the boss. I unlock undead workers that build 20% faster.

And then again later down the line Octavia comes up saying Necromancy is so bad that so Pharasma worshiping fags come in and demand I shut down the abhorrent act. I tell Octavia that I'm not shutting down a useful operation. She gets fussy and says I'm not going to be your advisor anymore! Well how about that, a chaotic good half-elf who says magic shouldn't be contained doesn't approve of uncontained magic. Now I'm short a magister advisor and I have to shuffle around my advisors and put idiots in unfavorable positions if I want a new advisor in that spot. Also i unlocked undead guards by continuing to support necromancy so my armies are supplemented

Necromancy has been the least of my concerns in these lands and yet everyone hates it. Licensed Necromancers aren't a problem. I've gotten event chains from alchemists scaring people and starting fires and I had to tell them to take their experiments outside the city walls. My biggest annoyance are those Fey creatures, absolute shit cunts who mess up things and then ask me to help. Bandit encounters are annoying too, but no option to tell them, that their crimes can be forgiven if they join the army otherwise the headsman gets them. And hell, the companions are even more idiotic. How can I expect to be a ruler if I don't get the option to flog or cane people as a punishment as a middleground before forgiving them instead I have a pick of telling them to leave or just forgiving them.


578cef  No.15553428

File: cfb8a91adf9f0cf⋯.gif (2.79 MB, 420x630, 2:3, 099dd2fab1f631a02525d248eb….gif)

>youtube


672403  No.15553448

How viable is it to just take Barbarian and stack STR and CON to kingdom come? Will the lack of Reflex saves fuck me over?


084b59  No.15553459

>>15553448

It's the lack of AC that will really fuck you. Barbs are usually light/medium armor, so they rely on dex bonus to AC. Maybe if you used the heavy armor variant, but I think you are still going to get chunked in melee.


98008c  No.15553490

>>15553421

We have magic advisors? I've finished the trolls and i have 8 advisor slots.

>Regent: Valerie: Dropout Paladin

>General: Kassil Aldori: Adopted Orc

Chose him instead of lander, i really wanted to give Lander a chance but i didn't want to step on my benefactors toes.

>Councillor: Tristian: Saraen Cleric

>High Priest Harrim: Dwarf Cleric Emo

<Grand Diplomat: Linzi: halfling bard

Took awhile but eventually it unlocked in Chapter 3

<Curator: Story teller

Unlocked in Chapter 2

>Warden: Kessen Garess or Ranger Ekun

Unlocked after chapter 2

Im missing magister and some other unknown position im guessing espionage considering its a stat your city needs.


d147ed  No.15553501

File: 47ab0c09eb574df⋯.jpg (28.16 KB, 400x384, 25:24, 1440106809384.jpg)

Are there any mod tools/ways to fix some of the lack of spells/feats/crafting/etc yet? Do they plan on releasing mod tools?


672403  No.15553525

>>15553459

Is it possible to stack AC until nothing can hit you, then? Seems like the stat boost enemies get on higher difficulties makes that impossible. I want to remove as much RNG from the process as possible without having to go full caster.


084b59  No.15553542

>>15553525

I don't know about higher difficulties, but I've managed to get over 40 AC on my monk with buffs which pretty much is in the realm of nothing can hit me, at least not right now.


672403  No.15553572

>>15553542

Are there any style feats in this? Anything like Path of War, as unlikely as this sounds?


084b59  No.15553614

>>15553572

I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about, but im going to go with no. There are a few feats with "style" in the name geared towards monks, Crane Style, Dragon Style and one other I can't remember right now, but I highly doubt that's what you are looking for.


089504  No.15553623

>>15552526

>The least leftist taint in a nu-CRPG

>Pathfinder

Nah.


d4cd70  No.15553662

>>15553623

Yeah, it really does have less than anything made this decade.

Less than W2, PoE/2, Tranny, Nu men era, they're all MUCH worse on that front.


98008c  No.15553702

>>15553623

Well you managed to call it. without even having to play the game.

>>15553662

eh thats really debatable.

>Gay Couple and their halfling adopted son?

>Lesbian fey human relationships

>Cuck couple who enjoy letting other people fuck em.

>Halfling that doesn't understand why borders exist.

Which im really confused about because Pitax a nation of thieves is a ok to cross your borders but Razimir a nation ruled by a tyrant who thinks hes god is a major no no. What are your standards Linzi?


5bdca9  No.15553731

>>15553490

Yes the other two you're missing are magister and espionage advisors.

This game could do so many things to improve their kingmaker system. They should have kept the hex system from the pnp version. Personally I wish they let the elders who lead the common folk or the small villages apply for these positions. Unlock a set of advisors for every region you annexed. Hell even let me build more than one town in a region so I can specialize a region, or even build military outposts on the overworld map if I have the resources and people and numbers. They give my character a quest to earn a title and some land, and I feel like I really don't have much choice in how I can govern and manage my barony/kingdom.


084b59  No.15553733

>>15553702

You can't complain about Fey being gay, it would be weirder if they weren't. They didn't used to call faggots fairies for nothing.


f5fd0a  No.15553769

File: 6a7096d5b3bcac1⋯.jpg (101.51 KB, 1047x228, 349:76, pozzibly.jpg)

Gnomes hate whiteness.


d4cd70  No.15553881

>>15553702

>eh thats really debatable.

No it isn't. I have only seen 3/4 of those, and they stand out as exceptions. All the games I mentioned are full of that shit. I'm not saying it's GOOD in this respect, I'm saying it's the LEAST BAD.


d4cd70  No.15553882

>>15553769

Paleness often denotes sickness even in Scandinavia.


f5fd0a  No.15553922

>>15553882

It's this kind of thinking that got the EU where it is nowadays,


14a0f1  No.15553932

>>15553769

Have you never seen a really sick person anon? Some people turn so pale you can see their blue veins. I saw a kid that looked that way and I thought he was going to drop dead any second.


217f56  No.15553946

File: c080308a032e8bc⋯.png (32.22 KB, 507x631, 507:631, 56dbba29c2327c1ff6f7d64723….png)

>>15552526

>The least leftist taint in a nu-CRPG

Yeah I have my doubts about that.


fd3307  No.15553971

>>15553946

That pic is retarded, its like the people who come here to shitpost about something totally not even vidya and then cry when they get banned.

Could've just used "" isntead of ((())) and you would've gotten the same message across and would be immune to kvetching. Making yourself an obvious target is not smart or anything, its just dumb.


7854ab  No.15553975

>>15553946

>>15553971

That guy was a retard for using echoes on a normalfag forum but the mods over on Steam are pretty pozzed. They will ban any and all even slightly critical posters.


ec8235  No.15553982

>>15553946

>go to normalfagville

>take the mantle of a frogposter

>expect not to get slapped

Inability to adjust to your environment is a sign of autism, anon.


f5fd0a  No.15554015

>>15553946

Everyone who posted there is an idiot it's just a question of degrees.

To the wider point it contains: better reviews tend to be written in an idiosyncratic tone, I *want* to know if expectations are dashed, if personal preferences are shat upon, I can't stand the cookie cutter anodyne inoffensive dreck pissed out by people paid to shave their edges off or outright bullshit their audience to keep their pay-cheque coming,


084b59  No.15554068

I like how this game handles alignment. Specifically I like how good is not necessarily "nice". The Lawful Good choice quite frequently ends up being to skip dialog and just go full murderhobo. Of course that means I end up picking more Chaotic or neutral options, but I like that there's more of a choice to consider.


6e85c4  No.15554073

>>15553448

I made a human Armored Hulk with maximum strength and a serving of constitution. I cast Enlarge on her to give her extra reach, which really helps her cleaving. She tends to survive against trash very well with her magic full plate. Her health pool helps her sit through the hits that pass by the armor, and lets her survive some of the big hitters that will always get through anyone's AC anyway. Low reflex saves are offset by the health pool, because you're able to tank those explosions.

>>15553525

>Is it possible to stack AC until nothing can hit you, then? Seems like the stat boost enemies get on higher difficulties makes that impossible.

It depends on the difficulty you are playing on. I am playing on challenging, and at level 5, attack bonuses are varying between 8 to 27 on enemies. She takes more chip damage than my paladin, but she also reliably kills enemies on the turn she charges. Raging and charging is going to get you hit, no matter how much armor you are wearing. But my level 5 armored hulk almost exceeds 80 hit points when raging and with a +4 constitution buff.

Another note is that if you enlarge your barbarian, they will be able to fight from behind any better-armored martial characters you have. The same goes with using polearms, and doubly so for enlarging a polearm user.


084b59  No.15554075

>>15554068

Also I'm playing a paladin, so alignment has a pretty significant impact if I go too far in any direction.


7854ab  No.15554110

>>15554075

Speaking of Paladins, they are going to add a scroll of atonement that resets your alignment because retarded mouthbreathers can't into staying Lawful Good.


084b59  No.15554122

>>15554073

It's really easy to slip to Neutral Good over time.


07ac8f  No.15554137

File: 0f62356514c8e95⋯.png (607.14 KB, 665x672, 95:96, 0f62356514c8e9503c960f2cac….png)

>>15552526

>Dice rolls may not have even probability as some people have claimed after a hundred or so tests 10~% CTH for enemies hit 40~% of the time with roughly opposite results for the player and similar results for saving throws (AI always seems to succeed, PCs rarely

Does anyone have the testing information on that? because that's pretty much what I'm experiencing all the time and it's infuriating. A friend thinks it's just because I'm notoriously bad luck, but this seems a bit ridiculous. Skill checks with a >50% chance to succeed fail 10 times in a row. Dudes with +7 will saves will succeed DC 18+ checks 4 out of 5 times every time. Trash with mediocre AC can try to cast a spell in melee range, take 4 attacks of opportunity, plus the normal attacks for that round, and walk away completely unscathed because every single one missed. I know it's still essentially a game of chance, but the whole thing feels very stacked to me. I also need it as something to rub in my asshole friend's face since he seems intent on sucking the game's dick with a "Everyone else is an idiot, the game works fine for me" attitude.

>>15554110

To be fair, there's a lot more Chaotic dialogue options than there are Lawful. I can see the drift on my character already and I generally take the lawful options over anything else.

t. LE


8beadf  No.15554156

File: 8a0eab495ee2b3b⋯.png (236.81 KB, 620x640, 31:32, 8a0eab495ee2b3b0eaedd8a2e1….png)

I have a lot of pnp characters I want to remake in this game. Am I missing out on much if I travel with mostly mercenaries? Should I start a new game for each custom character to better flesh them out?

>>15554073

+27 attack bonus at level 5

Was this a somewhat common enemy or a named boss? That sounds like an enemy that's heavily breaking the rules.


672403  No.15554161

>>15554156

>>15554073

Actually, how can you be sure of that? Can you check enemy stats somehow or is this datamined?


7d21e2  No.15554163

>>15554110

>retarded mouthbreathers can't into staying Lawful Good

Depends. How bad are the LG options?


7854ab  No.15554164

>>15554161

Right click on the messages in your combat log, it shows the to-hit calculations.

On Challenging and up, enemies get large bonuses to stats that also double-dip, i.e. they get extra BAB AND extra to-hit from Str.


7854ab  No.15554167

>>15554163

I haven't played LG much but from what I recall they were generally alright. You won't of course be able to make deals with evil creatures and such, which can sometimes make your life harder but that's being a paladin in a nutshell.


672403  No.15554172

>>15554164

Well then, so far I see the argument of taking Rogue 4/Monk 16 and stacking Dex/Con as high as they can go with Wis on the side and then faceramming everything with Crane Style.


084b59  No.15554174

>>15554164

Yeah I'm sticking with normal. It's a bit too easy, but I don't like going up against stupidly high saves and AC just to make things harder.

>>15554167

It's not that the LG options are bad, usually, it's just that there aren't that many of them. Quite often you get dialog choices where the only options are NG, N, and NE or something like that with no lawful choice possible. Those NG picks slowly slide you over towards the chaotic side, and there aren't as many LN choices to balance it out either, with many of those being a bit on the nasty side as well.


084b59  No.15554193

>>15554172

Doing that with Rogue 3/monk and Wis/Dex as high as they go. Con isn't as big of an issue IMO. Crane style/defensive and some nice buffs and my monk is over 40 AC already, and she still has a few more feats to go.

I don't know about going rogue 4 (uncanny dodge I'm guessing?). The reason I went rogue 3 was for finesse training: Unarmed. The only other way to get dex-based unarmed damage is with a certain necklace, but that takes up the slot that gives your unarmed attacks an enhancement bonus.


084b59  No.15554201

>>15554193

Oh, and don't forget Wings. Aasimar at level 10+ can take a feat to gain wings (no visual effect sadly) that grant +3 AC vs melee and immunity to ground effects. It's a very good reason to roll aasimars for any melee characters.


672403  No.15554213

>>15554201

Do they have level adjustment?


7854ab  No.15554215

>>15554213

No, PF thankfully did away with that.


672403  No.15554218

>>15554215

This sounds incredibly gay and broken at the same time.


07ac8f  No.15554220

>>15554156

It was probably a mini-boss sort of encounter, and that's a bit on the extreme end, but the stats for monsters are definitely fucked for this game. Wolves have twice the AC and attack bonus compared to official rules values for instance. If it were even bloat across the board I would be okay with it but it's completely arbitrary. Some shit is RAW, others have massively bloated stat values and CR for encounters is all over the place.


672403  No.15554226

>>15554220

Some PnP campaigns aren't designed for power-gaming, so I guess they went "oh fuck, they're just gonna optimize builds, let's ramp up everything" and this turns the game back into RNGfest.


084b59  No.15554232

>>15554213

>>15554218

Level adjusts were fucking retarded anyway. Yes some races are more powerful, but putting them a whole level behind (let alone 2 or 3) is overcompensating.


7854ab  No.15554233

>>15554226

The problem is even if you maximize the shit out of your party you will have a hard time beating +12 BaB at lvl 2. And it doesn't get better at higher levels either.


084b59  No.15554239

>>15554233

That's why you keep this shit on normal enemy stats.


d4cd70  No.15554254

>>15554137

The guy who claimed to record a few hundred rolls said he did it on paper and never posted his methodology or data.


7854ab  No.15554260

>>15554254

Who knows, Unity is a piece of shit and I have no doubt that it could accidentally fudge the RNG.

I believe the same stat stacking buff that's happening right now also happened to PoE at one point.


084b59  No.15554264

>>15554254

There are SOME rolls that are pretty clearly rigged. The one's I've noticed though happen in your favor… sort of. The kingdom event you get after each time you fight at bald hill ALWAYS succeeds, but never triumphs.


8beadf  No.15554278

>>15554226

If that was their line of thinking, the NPCs they force on you would also be optimized. I'm pretty sure the barbarian they gave me has a 16 strength. Who the fuck designed that?


672403  No.15554309

Actually, can you even grapple in this game? There are no associated feats for grappling on the wiki and it's not on Combat Maneuvers either.


7854ab  No.15554317

>>15554278

I was gonna say "Paizo" but even their Amiri has 18 Str.


084b59  No.15554318

>>15554278

>>15554317

One more point of strength modifier isn't going to make or break you, there's a pretty good argument for cutting off at 16 in order to have a more balanced stat pool especially between str/dex/con. Putting points into Wis is just inexcusable though.


8beadf  No.15554348

>>15554318

I'm of the mindset that every point matters. She uses a two handed sword, which means she's +4 damage when she could be +6. You don't want to waste another attack because you left an enemy on 1 health.


084b59  No.15554358

>>15554348

Or that 1 point of strength modifier could be 2 points of Con or Dex. Every point matters right? It's just a question of how much more do you want the offense than the defense. Of course I'm not a fan of barbarians to start with, Rage is a suicide button in my opinion.


7854ab  No.15554360

>>15554348

On anything above Normal it'll be impossible to push her defense up enough to prevent her from biting the dust every single fight anyway.

It's best to level her as a fighter.


084b59  No.15554366

>>15554360

Well you COULD give her a glaive instead and just stick her behind the fighter


7854ab  No.15554369

>>15554366

Actually I don't think glaives have reach. The only weapon I've seen that does is the longspear. Also shit like trolls have natural reach with their claws and they just love to target your low-AC people.


084b59  No.15554376

>>15554369

Glaives and Longspears both do. Most enemies target the first thing that gets in melee range so it should work fine. If it doesn't then the rest of your party is gonna be fucked anyway.


07ac8f  No.15554610

File: 1376354772f08c1⋯.png (558.84 KB, 1366x649, 1366:649, 1459507673939.png)

>>15554137

>>15554254

I just did some of my own testing on a bandit encounter with some bandits. About 73 rolls worth, returned an average roll of ~9.46 which is about a full dice value lower on average than expected, since average d20 roll should be 10.5. Comparing bonus values and enemy AC, my dudes should have succeeded about 60% of their rolls, but only actually succeeded about 50% of the time which is consistent with the lower average dice rolls. I haven't been in a statistics class in years so I can't remember to figure out my margin of error, but I imagine with a sample of 73 rolls it should be relatively small.

It's not quite the 40% difference what ever that other guy was saying, but it is still a significant difference.


4737c4  No.15554647

If any of you are about to reach Chapter 4. Stop right there. Game breaking walls of bugs ahead as in the main quest is not doable because the place you need to go will not appear on map and the event which needs to be triggered before the place will appear will not trigger.

Hope you have the old saves before Chapter 4 or kiss your playthrough goodbye.


07ac8f  No.15554660

>>15554610

>a bandit encounter with some bandits

It's time for bed.


672403  No.15554706

>Aaron Lawson checks his own trips

wew

Also, game keeps crashing to desktop on startup. Running patch 1.01, maybe updating will fix it.

>no SSD


084b59  No.15554805

>>15554647

I'm hoping the lost brother isn't necessary to complete the chapter. I've already done the whole thing with vordekai


6e85c4  No.15554835

>>15554156

A downside to being familiar with the pen and paper game is that Kingmaker doesn't seem to give a shit about the bestiary, which really threw me off a lot at first, as basically every encounter was breaking my expectations. It's not a small change, either. You would be surprised at how different monster stats are. Some monsters are close. Some are jacked up.

The 27 attack bonus was from the lone warrior who also almost did triple digits of damage and had cleaving finish and improved critical, so he'd kill my party with a free action. My party was level 5 and he has 14 base attack, so I was clearly somewhere I shouldn't have been. But I kept fucking at it until I got his treasure. Honestly, the hardest fight I had was against the bandits at Oleg's. The bandits weren't very hard, I just overwrote my saves after getting Bokken to help, and the fucker kept throwing main character-homing bombs. It took me 2 hours to get past that fight, which I only won because he tarded out and spun in circles with the questionmark action over his head until the fight ended. I couldn't level because of a bug in a patch that made spells invisible, so I was also only level 1 while he was blasting my ass through my throat.

>>15554369

I have gotten reach using glaives, longspears, and fauchards. I have not tried any other reach weapons, but those are working for me.


f5fd0a  No.15555883

File: 904cba65ffc0404⋯.jpg (51.95 KB, 713x657, 713:657, chorror.jpg)

This fucking game is a shambles.

Temple of the Elk is bugged, going back after starting/finishing the restoration leaves you with no exit points. GR8 work. This game may not be as pozzed as a lot of other titles atm but it's still full of AIDS.


25502b  No.15555892

>>15555883

Yeah I've got it installed and beat the first chapter but I don't want to play until it's had a few more patches.


f5fd0a  No.15555914

>>15555892

I remember when games used to be actually done before they were released, something went horribly wrong in this timeline.


f5fd0a  No.15555925

>>15555883

>Temple of the Elk

Save, quit to desktop, reload fixed it thankfully.


7854ab  No.15556385

>>15555914

That was decades ago.


f5fd0a  No.15556449

File: 74305a48997098d⋯.png (315.16 KB, 966x764, 483:382, currentyeardevs.png)

>>15556385

Well then, I demand that time be stopped, reversed and this grimy mistake of a continuum be fixed, to put right what once went wrong.


5f858a  No.15556736

>Sarenrae will automatically save Tristian from dying and teleport him to a safe location should he fall in battle.

Could you please stop pulling this kind of bullshits? First with that kender-wannabe cunt of a bard, now this? If people want to get rid of a character, most of the time it's because the character was damn annoying. Write better characters instead of "you cant get rid of our special snowflakes because we said so".


fec73b  No.15556896

>>15556736

You can permanently get rid of Tristian later.


ff883c  No.15556927

I've seen the torrent for 1.06 but that too has bugs apparently, just how many bugs can they introduce with these "hotfixes"? I wanted to play it since release but in a non-buggy somewhat stable state, and i'm still waiting.


084b59  No.15557096

I'm considering going back to right before I finished chapter 4 (the one with the undead cyclops) and doing kingdom building shit for a few in-game years. Will this fuck me over in the long run?


b49354  No.15557144

How faithful are the mechanics to the pen and paper? How many class variants/archetypes are there? Can I use the game as a method of testing various builds based off of the rule set on d20pfsrd.com?


f5fd0a  No.15557265

>>15557144

It's not properly turn based and people are still finding feats/bloodlines etc that haven't worked for certain classes and it's bugtacular so probably not good for testing anything other than your patience.


fec73b  No.15557289

>>15557096

Sorry to break that the cyclop is chapter 3. And chapter 4 is a great wall of bugs. Hold on your save and wait for 22nd which they will deliver a big patch and hope it fixes everything. Otherwise, continue at your own peril and risk losing an entire playthrough.


084b59  No.15557333

>>15557289

Don't know where you get your numbers from, but "Stolen Land" (defeat stag lord) is chapter 1, "Troll Trouble" is chapter 2, "Season of Bloom" is 3, and "The Varnhold Vanishing" is 4. "Prologue" is just the attack on restov until you get to the world map for the first time.


fec73b  No.15557584

>>15557333 (checked)

From the source material itself. The module. Part 3 of 6 is called “Varnhold Vanishing”. Chapter 2 includes every assortments of trouble encroaching your newfounded land, including trolls and whatnot and ended with the Bloom. Most people also refer by that.


084b59  No.15557605

File: 031b55c96cb994b⋯.png (3.34 MB, 1920x1200, 8:5, journal.png)

>>15557584

Fuck the source module, most people never played it or know anything about it and I guarantee the game changed things. Things are layed out pretty clearly in the Journal, nothing is numbered but prologue is "prologue" and everything else gets it's specific name.


6e85c4  No.15557674

>>15557144

It's fairly close with certain changes to make it work in real-time. The biggest detriment is that there is no way to customize an AI for characters, because the game is in real-time, and certain classes or builds that require a lot of micromanagement really suffer unless you continuously pause and command them. Certain changes also change the viability of a lot of classes. For example, arcane armor training and mastery is passive, and no longer requires a swift action, so you could make an eldritch knight that wears mithral full plate and actually use spell critical. Flanking doesn't require that you actually flank a target, but that the two things are attacking it, meaning teamwork feats like Outflank are just passive upgrades. Reduced spell variety compared to the pen and paper game makes sorcerers stronger.

Another thing is that descriptions are wrong or changed all over the place, and you can't tell what was changed and what is just messed up. Spells randomly say they affect all enemies when they affect everything in the radius, when there is a separate descriptor for when they affect everything. Random snippets were pulled out of spell descriptions, but they still apply, so if you know the pnp rules, those still apply. I just found bracers of archery that work exactly like the tabletop, but they omitted the part where you only get the +2 attack and +1 damage if you were already proficient with bows, even though that still applies. A lot of spells don't tell you what type of creature they affect, but again, if you're sharp on the pnp rules, you already know. If you're not sharp on pnp rules, you're going to be frequently confused. There are weapon proficiencies and weapon focuses for weapons that straight up don't exist in the game, like throwing weapons, or hand crossbows, or slings. Speaking of crossbows, there is no rapid reload, as all crossbows reload and fire like bows. There are other minor changes, but I'm sure you get the drift.

Only certain CRB builds could be tested, but it wouldn't matter, because the monsters use different stats than the bestiary. The content that is implemented is fairly faithful, however. Just know that if you plan on seeing what is in the game by using the wiki, the wiki is incomplete and will lead you to false conclusions.


a675eb  No.15557727

>>15557674

What's bullshit is you can't queue multiple actions on a single character.


084b59  No.15557738

>>15557674

>There are weapon proficiency and weapon focuses for weapons that straight up don't exist in the game, like throwing weapons, or hand crossbows, or slings.

Not quite true. While Slings ARE mentioned in weapon proficiency, there is no Weapon Focus for them. You can't accidentally waste a feat that does absolutely nothing, those weapons do exist even if they are really damn rare, like Javelins do exist. Also taking the Weapon Focus feat on character creation starts you with that weapon always.


084b59  No.15557749

>>15557738

I say that, but Spiked Shield Bash weapon focus might actually be nothing.


6e85c4  No.15557774

File: 5f2d33660195e04⋯.png (332.34 KB, 418x540, 209:270, focus.png)

>>15557738

There are also like 6 exotic weapon proficiencies for weapons I have never seen. I believe it's just proficiency that begins you with the weapon and not focus, because I began with a fauchard without focus. But if I started with, say, an orcish double axe that I haven't seen at all in the game, I'd be pretty salty that I took a weapon that I couldn't replace.

Though maybe these weapons appear really late into the game.


672403  No.15557777

>>15554706

Updated to 1.03, still crashes - either keeps running out of memory or because of shaders failing. This is why you don't outsource to Pajeets.


5bdca9  No.15557778

Kingdom management is bugged beyond repair. Tristrian has an important message to say every single time I enter my main hall. Oh gee this cult is doing horrible things and wants to kill the baron! Oh sure I'll help. So I get rid of it and he's thankful. Go back to main hall and get the same message, except the quest isn't repeatable and it's a companion quest. Every single time. It won't stop. Next thing I know event messages are piling up and won't go away so all my advisors want to say something, but no one does. Some quests won't go away, and some don't even popup, and some I can't even finish because the npc's I'm supposed to talk to aren't interactable no matter how many times I tried clicking on them. I tried saving, quitting and reloading, and it's all still there and retarded.

This game has many retarded bugs even in 1.06 which I have installed. How did this even get out of the beta? Did no one attempt playing beyond the 2nd chapter?


a675eb  No.15557788

>>15557774

>orcish double axe

Saw one dropped as loot and at a store. I'm still fucking around in the map at chapter 1 though.


084b59  No.15557798

>>15557774

That's the unavialable section of the weapon focus talents. There's no way to get Slings as a weapon focus as far as I know. Maybe if you start as a druid because of their special "druid weapon proficiency" that explicitly include slings.

I've seen double axe, sai, sling staff, and tongi. I think I saw nunchaku and two-bladed sword but I'm not sure. I'm not even sure what a siangham is


98008c  No.15557852

finaly found one scimitar holy crap this thing is rare. Its in the womb of the evil goddess.


f5fd0a  No.15557867

File: 334c9a21b106640⋯.jpg (47.95 KB, 439x527, 439:527, akarnishock.jpg)

>>15555883

Another fucking bug? The Lone House Wizard guy Bartholomew and his whip. You go back to see him and his troll cuck and no option to give it back to him, he them plonks your ass outside in the middle of the map and vanishes from the world.


6e85c4  No.15557874

>>15557798

They cannot be picked, sure, but when I saw that list, I said, "goddamn look at all the weapons in the game." I didn't look through the list to see if there was anything I had proficiency with that I couldn't take focus, because when I first installed the game, why would I do that? I saw there was a focus for hand crossbows, and the rogue said it had hand crossbow proficiency. Since I realized that crossbows didn't need to reload and had prior knowledge that you can ranged sneak attack anyone in this game if they are flanked by melee characters, I had picked up a rogue mercenary for the purpose of trying out some faggy TWF rapid shot hand crossbow build. I didn't bother checking to see if weapon focus could be picked up, because I didn't even have hand crossbows yet. A few levels later, I'm stuck with a potato of a character who has TWF and all of the ranged feats. I had also made the assumption that I'd be able to get a sling for my druid, since I built her entirely for casting. That one is less damaging to me, because I'd have taken the druid regardless, but it feels like shit looking for hours for a simple weapon that you were told you have proficiency with, and that you see in the weapon focus menu.

I guess my point was that the list is extremely misleading and they need to prune those out of the game if they're not going to use them. It didn't let you take them, sure, but it's incredibly misleading, because a lot of builds or concepts have more important feats to take than weapon focus at level 1, especially when you don't know when you'll even have the weapon.

I've only seen the tongi as loot once, and the two-bladed sword at the store. I don't know what I would do with a nunchaku because the exotic proficiency is missing, so it'd be monk exclusive. I'm assuming that store inventories are partially randomized, so I suppose some of the rarer weapons might work. I wonder if having proficiency in a certain exotic weapon makes it more likely to appear in a store or drop as loot, since I rarely see exotic weapons, but I did find a masterwork fauchard and a +1 Fauchard fairly early in the game, along with a fauchard in the prologue. That would also explain why you've seen a lot of monk weapons, where I haven't, and I don't have a monk. If that's the case, that'd actually be pretty great for some exotic weapons. I haven't seen a single one of the dwarven weapons, which are martial weapons for dwarves. I don't know if I have to put exotic proficiency on some non-dwarf to get them to drop, or if they are rare and showing up for other people.


672403  No.15557926

>teamwork feats

So can you, theoretically, get four rogues with longbows in a 2x2 box with all teamwork feats that you can benefit from (including Volley Fire, Shield Wall etc) and just make a portable firing squad? From what I can tell, flanking doesn't require you to be on opposite sides of a creature anymore, so won't that just completely break the game as long as you stack to-hit and some damage to avoid getting fucked by fortification?


5eb857  No.15557929

>>15554068

This game's alignment choices are inconsistent as fuck. Hardass Lawful Good is the classic way to play Lawful Good and it's what most classic players should come to expect. Neutral Good is the "I will give you unconditional compassion" alignment. And it's fine in the moments where it follows that. But very frequently it does not follow through. For example, there's a part where you talk to a troll king and the Lawful Good option is to attack him and his cronies immediately. The wording says something to the effect of "I won't suffer trolls in my lands." Fine.

Then, not even ten minutes later, you find a rock troll and his two kids and it's Lawful Evil to attack the kids even though they approach you, block your path and are belligerent, and your Lawful Good ass just mentioned that you wanted to kill all trolls.


98008c  No.15558083

>>15557867

What version you on i updated to 1.05. which was 2.2gb big. Also 1.03 jubilist companion quest isn't completeable because you can't trigger him confirming you finished the quiz.


f5fd0a  No.15558145

>>15558083

Same 1.05, at least it's not game breaking.


084b59  No.15558162

>>15557874

I don't think any of the game's loot is randomized actually, it just depends on where you go and what you manage to find.


98008c  No.15558178

>>15558145

Whip quest? How did you trigger that, i just asked him questions about trolls and then let him continue on in his rape dungeon.


084b59  No.15558190

>>15557929

Sometimes alignment is just inconsistent like that, it's more of a problem with D&D alignments than the game itself. Killing the trolls kids is evil or at worst neutral.

>>15558083

The quiz quest worked fine for me on 1.03 (GOG 24066). I'm almost afraid to update now.

>>15557926

Ranged weapons do not threaten any squares. You do not gain the benefit of feats like Outflank, because you aren't actually flanking anything. This is in spite of the fact that you DO gain sneak attacks if something is being flanked by somebody else.


f7e1f4  No.15558191

>>15558178

It comes later in the main story. For me, he died and while I didn't bother returning to his hut to see if the game made him alive for some reason, I have no clue what to do with this whip.


98008c  No.15558203

>>15558190

Had to update because Bokken and Dragen switched places and kept coming into my throne room.

>>15558191

looking on steam it seems its been like that for at least a week. Also appears the next big patch will be done near the end of October.


5eb857  No.15558204

>>15558190

>Killing the trolls kids is evil or at worst neutral.

>jes tryna go ta troll college n shiet


084b59  No.15558216

>>15558203

I had that exact problem and told Bokgen to get lost. I think that worked. As far as I can tell it'e Bokken's quest that's bugged, once completed instead of coming to you with his immortality elixir or whatever the fuck he's supposed to end up making, he keeps coming back with his standard greeting. He claims to give you an item, but no matter what options you picked before he doesn't give you squat.


084b59  No.15558245

>>15558204

Killing innocent kids who aint dun nuffin (yet) is evil. If you can justify it you can call it lawful neutral, but there's no way it's Good.


98008c  No.15558275

>>15558216

does he ever give you that immortality potion he made you kill a dog for that shit.

>>15558204

>jes tryna go ta troll college n shiet

feels kinda bad that the game forced you to basically commit a school shooting on the kobolds and trolls with guns and bullets replaced by acid arrows. But to be fair they attacked first.

>>15558245

>Killing innocent kids who aint dun nuffin (yet) is evil

That cooking pot and the dying dwarf in their playpen tells me otherwise.


b21469  No.15558294

How is ranger class in this game? Any recommendation when building one? I'm not familiar with how Pathfinder handles them.

I was thinking of building a two-handed melee ranger, since I saw that they can take that fighting style.


f5fd0a  No.15558308

YET ANOTHER FUCKING BUG

Resting after a fucking ballache fight with Blood Bones Monsters (gr8 name there) and the screen goes black and stays that way while the VAs waffle on, cursor on screen everything else gone.

>>15558178

Not sure what set it off I was looking to cull the Trolls and asked him if knew about the branded ones then he said something about 'sentimental reasons' for it's return.


084b59  No.15558321

>>15558294

Animal companions are rediculously strong, especially smilodons. Pay attention the the attacks each animal gets when selecting it, Wolves get 1 bite for 1d6 damage that auto-trips, Smilodons get 1 bite for 1d6 AND 4 claws for 1d4 EACH. Add strength bonuses to that which get fucking ridiculous and it hits like a train.

On the other hand, Rangers (and animal-domain clerics) have level -3 for their companions. Unlike Druids, Sacred Huntsmasters (inquisitor), Sylvan Sorcerers, and Mad Dogs (barbarian) who all get pet=level. I'd really recommend the Sacred Huntsmaster. You lose your full BAB and favored terrain, but you keep the favored enemy and gain more clerical spells, plus the ability both to share your teamwork feats with the pet AND pretend your teammates have the same feats as you.


98008c  No.15558336

>>15558308

Its really no joke on how buggy this game is.


6e85c4  No.15558353

File: f7e52ee292726cb⋯.png (22.46 KB, 235x102, 235:102, broken.png)

Is there a way to make this go away that doesn't involve not playing until they patch it, or do I just have to tolerate my barbarian ascending to godhood?


084b59  No.15558359

>>15558353

Install https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/7 and respec. I suspect that SHOULD reset everything.


b21469  No.15558373

>>15558321

Jesus, 5 attacks? Sounds like the smilodon with do more damage then me.

I'll check out the Sacred Huntsmaster, thanks.


42cac6  No.15558397

>>15558373

Since natural attacks are properly implemented, you can enlarge the animal to increase the base dame of said attacks, and then add attribute buffs on top.


084b59  No.15558400

File: e6379faa9ec8b39⋯.png (3.46 MB, 1920x1200, 8:5, Smilodon.png)

File: 5f9ae0dc0ff5d5a⋯.png (3.4 MB, 1920x1200, 8:5, monk.png)

>>15558373

It will, especially when you add on buffs that don't really work on huminoids. This is what my Smilodon looks like fully buffed. Compare that to what my monk gets with buffs


f5fd0a  No.15558402

>>15558336

3 a day erry day so far, I reckon we can all put 'Beta Tester' on our CVs now and it wouldn't even be a lie.


084b59  No.15558404

>>15558397

Only true until level 8. When the pet reaches level 8 it grows to Large (usually, some don't). When you cast Animal Growth on a pet that's already Large it doesn't grow again. It's Damage die don't increase and it's visual size doesn't change, but it DOES still gain the +8 size bonus to strength.


084b59  No.15558409

>>15558400

Before you say anything, yes I just noticed that negative level.


5eb857  No.15558443

>>15558245

>LG for eradicating trolls but not their children

>It's LG as long as you kill the dad before it can find a mom and not arrive so late you have to kill kids

>LG for sparing trolls that will be raised by trolls and have a vendetta against you specifically for killing their dad


084b59  No.15558449

>>15558443

I didn't say it was LG to spare the kids, I said it wasn't "good" to kill them. If I recall correctly letting them go was a CG option.


5eb857  No.15558459

>>15558449

>I said it wasn't "good" to kill them.

But the game does, in the conversation with Hargulka. Getting trolls out of your lands necessitates that you get rid of their children. Therefore by proxy, killing the kids is just as fine as killing the adults. Unless you actually want to devote the time/resources to trying to train a troll to see the light of your god or whatever.


6e85c4  No.15558467

File: 80eb01055d2fc39⋯.png (657.87 KB, 780x593, 780:593, i_am_growing_stronger.png)


98008c  No.15558470

File: ea0c3d71b9b8bd0⋯.jpg (252.18 KB, 1280x1024, 5:4, batman-alignment-chart.jpg)

>>15558402

>we can all put 'Beta Tester' on our CVs now and it wouldn't even be a lie.

Its not and by the looks of it we're doing a far better job than who they hired to test this game.

>>15558449

They were eating horses,humans, and dwarves. The Troll greeter admitted this, their cooking pot suggested this, and the dying dwarf in their "cupboard" was the icing on the proverbial cake. Those weren't innocent baby trolls.

>>15558459

After you murdered there father in cold blood? Thats how you get Batman anon.


45543b  No.15558522

File: ac8ce8e58d00c0c⋯.jpg (67.78 KB, 600x631, 600:631, good wojoek.jpg)

>>15558400

>those portraits

Is this part of the portrait pack on steam?


084b59  No.15558528

>>15558522

I didn't find them on steam, I just google searched for kingmaker portraits and ended up looking through an imgur album full of them. There are several pre-configured packs on the Nexus now too.


5bdca9  No.15558636

So get this, Bokkens quest when he is your alchemist basically stops when he has to run tests unless you're playing an evil character. The thing is he has vials to test a youthness potion, and if you're playing anything but evil you're out of options to complete it. You have to force it down a dogs mouth to continue, and then you have to force it down his neighbors mouth to test it, and it all just keeps going wrong. The thing is, why is there no N option to tell him to perform the tests himself. Or a LG or NG option telling him to perform the tests in a more ethical way on the goblins or rats or some other evil creatures that are a nuisance rather than some people who don't do anything. Poor writing honestly.

Then later the quest dealing with this elf smith Nazrielle or something. She asks you to stand up to your contract you signed and go kill her apprentice who is cursing her weaponry and making people go crazy. There's one option in CN saying you won't interfere. Then three evil options. LE telling her you will uphold the contract and send the apprentice to jail. LE telling the apprentice you will uphold the contract and kill him. And lastly CE telling him you don't care about the contract and will support the apprentice in revenge.

This bad writing makes it absolutely hard to run a kingdom when you can't even do it in a neutral or lawful or good way without it being some idiotic option like the many times I had to spare creatures to keep a good stance on things. These bugs, this genuinely idiotic writing is making playing this game hard. When I find a bit of enjoyment it just gets ruined with so many things that just ruin the game.


45543b  No.15558668

>>15558636

I turned off the dialogue alignment hints to save myself the wishy-washy morals the writers tried to pull off.


084b59  No.15558676

>>15558636

I never got anything about a neighbor. First he tells me to test it on the dog, but there's a Good option to set the dog free and then a bluff option to lie to him about it. Then he tells you to go test it on some Wererats, which doesn't require anything evil at all (persuade DC 1 to get them to use it on themselves). Then you return to him and he drinks it himself and if you hit him without killing him he goes back to normal.


6e85c4  No.15558678

>>15558467

It went away when she earned her class-based DR but now it's stuck at 1 which is less than her adamantine full plate gives


f9f774  No.15558702

i want to build a melee abyssal sorc. is that even viable? I planed on using claws/longsword+shield and buffing with enlarge,rage,transform,etc. Is that viable?


5bdca9  No.15558709

>>15558676

I didn't get anything about wererats. I released the dog, and after that I got the option to tell him something I got some blank option at the top, literally no dialogue showing up. Then another option to tell him I released the dog and won't be doing anymore of his work. then the regular options after that. I clicked the blank option and he ended up talking to me about his neighbor and said it would be good to test it on him. Then I got some blank options down under. and I selected option 2 I think. dialogue ended and he won't talk about it. No option to remind me what we talked about. I didn't want to go force something down his neighbors throat which is what I inferred so I never finished the quest. Quest log also never updated for me and it kept saying go talk to Bokken.


5bdca9  No.15558717

>>15558668

Also I'm playing as a paladin and I would prefer to stay in the LG plane. This game makes it hard.


084b59  No.15558735

>>15558717

It would be much easier if "neutral" choices simply didn't move your alignment at all. That way I could pick Neutral Good and Lawful Neutral options all day without worrying.


9a32fe  No.15559587

>>15553769

The bleaching occurs when a gnome ceases to experience new things. Their skin and hair slowly turn gray and then white, and their stats slowly decrease until they either die, or make one final saving throw

If they make this final saving throw, their stats are fully restored, their skin and hair remains pure white, and they become bleachlings. They are immune to the effects of the bleaching thereafter

While bleachlings are still mechanically beholden to the maximum life term of a gnome (700+ years), Starfinder reveals they are free of the cycle of life and death imposed upon them, as one of the base gnome options is to start as an immortal bleachling.

And when I say "imposed", I mean they weren't always subject to death.

Read on for more on gnomes, their mortality, and how pissed a god can get:

Gnomes come from the First World, a sort of first draft for the universe. Most fey things that aren't elves come from the First World (elves come from the planet Castrovel; they are the least special thing there). No gnome who knows will ever truthfully tell you why they left the First World, but the general theory among players, if you haven't read the right campaign setting book, is that they were exiled for fucking it up somehow. This is a bit of a half-truth.

The Eldest Fey rule the First World, and one stole a single drop of water from the river of souls. Now, death is a foreign concept in the First World, and all beings there are always interested in something new. Using the drop, he set about a game of death and reincarnation with his mass of gnome followers. It was centuries of fun and games until Pharasma, the goddess of death, found out.

Furious, Pharasma snatched the Eldest and all his gnome followers away from the First World. She bound and broke the Eldest and keeps him as a servant, and exiled the gnomes to Golarion. As an ironic gift to the gnomes, she let them keep their mortality.

Source: PF Campaign Setting: The First World - Realm of the Fey


45543b  No.15559598

>>15559587

Heh. Stupid gnomes. Arcanum has taught me never to trust a gnome.


97f30f  No.15559611

>>15559587

tl;dr Gnomes are dumb


084b59  No.15559612

>>15559611

Nah what I got from that is Fey are sick bastards.


4e272f  No.15559879

>>15559598

>Arcanum gnomes

Must. kill. gnomes.


000000  No.15559908

>>15559587

>Furious, Pharasma snatched the Eldest and all his gnome followers away from the First World. She bound and broke the Eldest and keeps him as a servant, and exiled the gnomes to Golarion. As an ironic gift to the gnomes, she let them keep their mortality.

How the fuck does that even work? The Eldest are deities. When it comes to deities Pharasma has a beef with, Urgathoa should be long dead already. You can't make Pharasma into a super-deity like the Lady of Pain and yet have so much shit exist that she does not tolerate (like undead). Paizo a shit.


881fbf  No.15559915

Game looks interesting, but it doesn't seem like it's worth fucking with for a couple months at least when they get all the bullshit ironed out.


b202a3  No.15560060

>>15559908

This is my first pathfinder game, but doesn’t the game say that the first world was created by the gods including Pharasma. It would make sense that she can fuck over one of her creations instead of another goddess.


fec73b  No.15560268

>>15559908

>The Eldest are deities.

They are not. Just really powerful like a level 20 wizards played by ultra min-maximus neckbeard who knows everything and every game book. But they are only powerful in their realms. Drag one outside fairyland and even you can easily light them fags up. That is why stories of people getting shit kicked in by fey always starts with idiots walked into the dark deep woods ass end of nowhere.

The only reason they can operate in the Stolen Lands are because the veil between first world and gonorrhoea are very thin and the planes often overlaps there.

Also feys are like cuck or tumblrites, they are utterly jealous of humanity and its achievements and tries to assert shits like muh immortality, your cycle of ruins and empire to feel better than you. Their existence is meaningless so they engage in senseless hedonism and shit. The worse thing than death a human can do to a fey is to force them to realise how ephemeral and meaningless their existence is and watch them wither and die painfully right there.


000000  No.15560274

>>15559587

>Gnomes come from the First World, a sort of first draft for the universe. Most fey things that aren't elves come from the First World (elves come from the planet Castrovel; they are the least special thing there). No gnome who knows will ever truthfully tell you why they left the First World, but the general theory among players, if you haven't read the right campaign setting book, is that they were exiled for fucking it up somehow. This is a bit of a half-truth.

Actually I'm pretty sure Elves just plain aren't fey in Pathfinder. It's weird as fuck and pretty dumb (why even have elves, then?). Elves are just straight up pointy-eared humanoids in PF. It was paizo's brilliant idea of being special and unique. Seriously:

>We deliberately made elves have no ties to the fey in Pathfinder as a way to help separate them from other RPG games that DID make this choice or at least imply this choice. Having elves be aliens is actually a lift from my homebrew game; I've always thought elves make a great fit for being alien visitors to a world. This also allowed us to shift that role over to gnomes to help make them feel unique to Golarion as well and to get them out of the shadow of "They're just shorter, kinda more magic dwarves" rut they'd been in until then.

>

>That said, I suppose the idea of elves being fey is so deeply ingrained in the minds of all of us that now and then, fey elf flavor sneaks into the game accidentally. We try to not do that, but it happens now and then.

-Paizo Employee James Jacobs, Creative Director

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uc6q?Elves-Not-Fey#8

>>15560060

>>15560268

The eldest are basically gods/goddesses in Pathfinder. You can worship them as a cleric and get full-blown 9th level spells and everything. They have domains, they have have special perks for their worshippers, and so forth. And there are a number of gods that used to be mortals in Pathfinder:

Aroden (dead, probably was an Eldritch Knight)

Iomedae (former Paladin of Aroden)

Cayden (some drunkard adventurer)

Norgorber (assassin)

Nethys (ultimate wizard)

Irori (turbo-monk)

List goes on, I reckon. The first four became gods thanks to the Test of the Starstone, some crazy ass trial that rewards a person with immortality. The others achieved godhood by themselves. The Eldest were never mortals though, since the fey realm is all immortal snowflakes like that.


e4e473  No.15560881

Should I stay on the 1.3 patch? it seems to be the most stable


5ac70b  No.15561759

File: d67a7a82892dbc6⋯.jpg (53.89 KB, 689x693, 689:693, Cheeki Breeki.jpg)

>>15552526

>there is still some leftist taint despite it being a fucking russian game

Mods deleted my original post, but Russia is full of pozz so don't expect media that comes out of there to be any good.


084b59  No.15561841

>>15554610

I don't know the math either, but 73 rolls on a d20 doesn't sound statistically significant to me, not for a single point margin. Out of 73 rolls you should be averaging just over 3.5 rolls per possible outcome. If you get one more 1 and one less 20 that's probably enough by itself to push your average down 1, and it doesn't take much "luck" to do that.

If your result had come up 5-10 points too low it would probably mean something, but not at 1, that's probably well within the error margin.


9a32fe  No.15561899

>>15560274

>>15559908

The oldest are closer to the empyreal lords in power, and are less powerful still. Still higher than most beings


9a32fe  No.15561902

>>15561899

>oldest

Eldest. Serves me right for phone posting


294231  No.15561915

>>15560881

I'm using 1.5. I can't tell you if its any less or more stable than 1.3 because it still has bugs out the wazoo that make me stop playing. I've rerolled multiple characters now because I'm waiting for new patches.


f5fd0a  No.15561936

File: c81b1c90c37dc7b⋯.jpg (208.07 KB, 1340x767, 1340:767, BP.jpg)

You can buy BP from the mudslime trader at 80g a pop. Not sure how I feel about this.


b1a7e7  No.15561962

>>15560274

In Pathfinder, you can become a "deity" with proper mythic feats, but still be very much mortal. Demigods also exist that can be killed, but also grant spells to followers.

Pharasma is in the top tier of deities that have always existed and are the most powerful. The eldest are not as powerful as them.


f5fd0a  No.15561966

Actually this might be the only way to get some of those 1500 jobs done

If you tease the edges of the Opportunity/Event pages at the bottom of the throne room map window you can trigger an endless 'almost selected' jabber where the page flickers in a mad somewhat adjustable tempo.


97f30f  No.15561977

>>15561936

It's expensive as fuck. Use it if you need a couple of dozen BP to start a project, don't rely on it.


f5fd0a  No.15562001

>>15561977

Just dropped 50 grand on it, might as well get shit going.


01b36a  No.15562007

Been playing for a 10 hours and just noticed I have 160k gold after selling a few stuff. Going back a few saves, it seems I've had it for a long while now. I seriously don't know what is and isn't a bug anymore. I think I'm going to wait for that Oct 22 update instead.


f5fd0a  No.15562048

I do like having the option to have an uppity dwarf hung for being a gibsfag


000000  No.15562147

>>15561962

But Urgathoa, who is younger than the Eldest and has basically no qualification to power (she was just some poor woman who ran from the afterlife… that's it), somehow is powerful enough to resist Pharasma? None of this shit makes sense.


9a32fe  No.15562198

>>15562147

age isn't what matters. Urgathoa defied death so much she became the first undead, and her return to Golarion was the origin of all disease. Additionally, gods' power grows as they amass follower, and there's a serious necormancy and sentient undead problem on Golarion

by comparison, the blasphemous Eldest and his gnome followers were reveling in death, and he only had so many followers

a couple possibilities as to why she was able to attain godhood:

humans in PF, as in much fantasy, have the highest potential for growth

it is only speculated that she was once human in the first place


084b59  No.15562264

>>15561977

>>15562001

What else are you going to spend it on though? I buy mercs myself, but beyond that there aren't really any high-end vendors as far as I know, so money is useless by the time you've hit 100k. I think I've collected over 500k so far, but I've spend like 300 on mercs.


6e85c4  No.15562380

File: 54db33b4e374578⋯.png (22.74 KB, 234x104, 9:4, welp.png)

>>15558467

>>15558678

Well, I was wrong. The DR was reset once, where it began ignoring the higher DR from things like adamantine armor, so I passed it on to someone else. I just loaded the game back up, zoned into a new map, and it skyrocketed up and continued growing. I installed the new patch that people elsewhere claimed fixed the DR stacking, but it did not, and now my main character and paladin are ascending as well. I guess I just have to take a week off and wait for them to fix it.


5eb857  No.15562392

>>15558735

This, so much. They fucked up really hard on the Neutral stuff. It makes sense for very specific situations, like the option that allows you to stay out of the war between the mites and the kobolds, but in almost every situation except True Neutral they should have simply made the alignments a single axis, i.e. "Lawful" or "Evil," and it would only shift your alignment along that single axis. I could see justifying the corner alignments being attached to a statement as well (CE, CG, LE, LG), but the vast majority of their statements read like it should have only shifted one axis. Even Neverwinter Nights did this correctly and the roleplaying in that game was mostly shit.


01b36a  No.15562404

>>15562380

Why don't you just accept your ascension to divinity? Why must you spit in the eyes of Pharasma like this?


000000  No.15562532

>>15562198

>Additionally, gods' power grows as they amass follower

By that token the Eldest was far stronger when Pharasma went after him than Urgathoa was shortly after she escaped the afterlife. Inconsistent powerlevels ftw.


f5fd0a  No.15562593

>>15562532

PathfinderballZ


000000  No.15562606

>>15555914

That's selective memory going full blast. Black Isle was positively infamous for buggy, half-assed releases. Obsidian is still infamous for that.


32f5fc  No.15562613

>>15561759

Russia could be the single most straight edged based whatever word is hip with the nazi youth now but any of them that would willing work on a Pathfinder game and definitely in the ninety-ninth percentile of faggotry.


f5fd0a  No.15562626

>>15562606

True but I'm so oldfag I can go back to Spectrum ZX days.


32f5fc  No.15562633

>>15562606

>90s computer RPGs are all of vidya

You reek of tvtropes.


01b36a  No.15562696

>>15562626

Back in the 80's to early 90's, if a game is bugged you have to wait for a reissue of a floppy release to get it fixed.

>>15562633

Any sufficiently complex and large game will have bugs, it's a reality you're going to need to come into terms with. The smart thing to do especially with RPGs is to wait for a year for them to iron out the bugs.


5eb857  No.15562726

>>15562696

The bugs on this game are fucking crippling though, and reek of alpha build. The Mac and Linux versions of the game failed to load saves on launch until a patch two days later. Tons of quests including critical companion quests just did not work. Some class features and feats didn't and still don't work at all, like Vital Strike which didn't give you the active ability to use it until last Friday. I can confirm that Freedom of Movement is incredibly fucking bugged and unpredictable; it varies from not working at all, to working completely, to keeping you from moving but allowing you to attack when you should be paralyzed, etc.


01b36a  No.15562797

>>15562726

>The bugs on this game are fucking crippling though

Well yes, that's why I often wait a year to jump into a game. I mean there was that time when Blizzard, a multi-million dollar dev studio, somehow shipped Starcraft 2 with its main menu rendering at thousands of FPS and melting GPUs. People should really really avoid games on release if they don't want broken stuff. Honestly, I'm just testing the game out if I'll like it later. Save yourself the torture and abandon this game, man. It can't be good for anyone's health.


9a32fe  No.15562834

>>15562532

fine. Then it's probably some bullshit like fey can't become proper deities no matter how powerful


f5fd0a  No.15562850

>>15562696

>Back in the 80's to early 90's, if a game is bugged you have to wait for a reissue of a floppy release to get it fixed.

Right, so they were incentivised to get it working the first time round or rightly face shitty press.

I'm not against patches the real issue here is kickstarter, it always is, again I'm not against it as such it's just people using it never bugtest their games properly so we end up with a ramshckle product and this litany of shittalk for the first run through and then no-one gives a fuck by the time it's 'fixed' cos they've already muddled through the bugged version or gave up with a bitter taste in their mouth. Kickstarter *could* be good for games but it rarely is.


084b59  No.15562878

>>15562850

Kickstarter has nothing at all to do with that. You get just as many if not more bugs from the big (and medium, see THQNordic) publishers


000000  No.15562895

>>15562626

Spectrum ZX is a bit beyond my ken. Got any recommendations for good ZX games?

>>15562633

Look around you and try to soak in the context. You're in a Pathfinder: Kingmaker thread. This is a game that is a clear throwback to oldschool RPGs. And oldschool RPGs had similar disastrous launches. Figure it out.

>>15562850

They still face shitty press, since no one really redoes their review scores after you bugfix a ruin of a launch. But it means increasingly less to them, thanks to the power of marketers and reviewers being increasingly worthless at their jobs.


b689b5  No.15562898

>>15562878

The big companies are able to put out bugged games because they have an established brand name and customer base that they can dupe into giving them money out of loyalty. Kickstarter allows small/new companies to dupe people into giving them money based on ideas of products that they only claim they'll deliver on.


084b59  No.15562911

>>15562898

Everyone puts out bugged games because everyone can get away with it. From Kickstarter to AAA and all the AA and indies in between, you can hardly find a single game on the market that runs right when it's released.


b689b5  No.15562947

>>15562911

And thus you get /v/


f5fd0a  No.15563018

>>15562895

ZX Games I'll start with good and fade into 'I remember this' territory:

Way of the Exploding Fist

Chuckie Egg/2

Bomb Jack

Operation Wolf

Barbarian

Ye Ar Kung-Fu

Saboteur

Rampage

Renegade (Beating up bulldykes with pool cues)

Target Renegade (x2)

Skool Daze

Altered Beast

Pssst

Paperboy

Jet Set Willy

StarQuake

Atic Atac

Knight Lore

Gift From The Gods (Utterly bewildering)

Barmy Burgers

Zzoom

Skate or Die

>>15562878

Those don't tend to be gamebreakers though you see those all over KS games, Correlation if not causation.


f5fd0a  No.15563048

>>15563018

Some of these got released on the +3 as well so those might be something to look at too.

Also:

Green Beret

How to be a Complete Bastard

Joust

Daley Thompson's Decathlon (two button bashing at its most intense)


802f38  No.15563389

File: a802f5046be6aa0⋯.png (633.09 KB, 1237x288, 1237:288, quiet_she_said.PNG)

How do your companions/advisors fit into the tabletop campaign? Are they PCs or just some special snowflakes forced on you by GM? Because there is no reason I can't just hire some mercs to do those jobs (probably did a better jobs than my "companions") instead of being forced to use some random ass adventurers who just happen to be with me when I set out to do some conquering land.


084b59  No.15563510

>>15563389

I don't know how companions fit into tabletop, but I wouldn't generally trust a Mercenary in a position of any significance. Companions are your "friends", mercs are just people you paid to fight for you.


8beadf  No.15563533

>>15563389

The players fill the roles they fit into. You probably couldn't "hire a merc" unless you took the Leadership feat. The whole point of Kingmaker is the players creating and ruling their own kingdom. When you all go off exploring the land, it's like the whole bridge crew of the Enterprise going on an away mission. It's assumed some loser NPCs are running the day to day activities while you're gone, but you better come back within a month or all hell will break loose. It's your town. If you don't like a certain NPC, you can deal with them as you like.

When I played, we all ended up making human characters without discussing it, so we made sure to keep any other races out of our kingdom. We tolerated halflings just so we could laugh at them. They would get a little upset, but it was no big deal. We were also cheap. We wouldn't pay for Raise Dead, so you better roll well on your Resurrection. Our poor ranger was brought back as an elf and had to wear a headband to cover his ears. Could have been worse (like the next 2 times he died).


6e85c4  No.15563552

Huh, wild shaping into a fire elemental and then using natural spell to cast spells of full round just casts them instantly. You can cast 4 nature's ally spells within the span of one round out of combat while wild shaped. My shield spells were expended for the day, so I fought Duke Dazzleflare by pre-summoning three dozen mites before the fight. He just spun in circles shitting magic missiles on mites until he died, because he seems to target the weakest thing he can see.


fec73b  No.15563578

>>15561936

On tabletop, you can embezzle funds too. But unrest will take a hit unless you passed a check to ensure citizens that it will be used for greater good even though you swim in BPs.

Also mage towers do produce magic items on regular basis which you can buy or sell it for BP too. Sigh… there goes my dreams.


084b59  No.15563886

Stinking cloud might well be my favorite spell in the game. It just shuts down everything, yet a simple Delay Poison (communal) spell renders my entire party immune, so I can fight while everything else just stands there puking. They don't even get a second saving throw, as soon as they fail their fort save once there's no more chances, they stay nauseated until the cloud is gone, which takes far longer than any fight should last.


d4cd70  No.15563901

>>15563886

How the fuck do you still deal with the fucking load times?


3c5a0f  No.15563969

Steam review average had dipped to 69% (Mixed) last time I checked. Metascore is the same based on 8 critics (user score hovers around 8.0 however). GameSpot has just given it a 6 (Fair). What would you rate it?


a452b6  No.15564268

>>15553421

Women…

Someone tell me am I fukked if I tell half of the part NPC's to fuck off foever? I'm worried I won't have people to fill kingdom slots.

Seriously the NPC's and their retarded mentalities piss me off. Like they are all shizio/bipolar and man-children. Well, some of them.

>>15558245

Good for whom?


e6ef15  No.15564351

>>15563969

Honestly seems about right. I deleted all my saves last night and I’m going to start over if the bugs are still there I’m just going to quit. Once you hit ch2-ch3 the bugs come out in full force.


3c5a0f  No.15564367

>>15564351

Did this game have a closed beta? I mean, what in the actual fuck.


f5fd0a  No.15564381

>>15564268

They hang around your town like a bad smell and you kind of have to use some of them as advisors but you can not take them on the road which cuts their annoying/useless factor by a good 80%


f5fd0a  No.15564387

>>15564367

We testers now anon.


e6ef15  No.15564427

>>15564387

>>15564367

Honestly that’s exactly what we are. Unpaid big testers. I forgot to clarify why I had to quit too.

See once you hit ch3 you have to visit Varnhold which is all the way to your east. But every travel node there takes a day and god forbid you’re like me and didn’t visit the Barbarian camp to get the secret open sesame passwords you have to explore every little inch of that portion of the map to find their camp. Then backtracked to places you just visited.

Which is was annoying but not gamebreaking, but the game made it seem like the barbarians were a side quest not the main quest because the NPCs kept saying I don’t what happened search elsewhere so you travelled everywhere but there.

The second problem is that ch3 might have been on a timer “a city disappears better get your ass in gear.” But if you actually do this you fuck up your kingdom building quests. I had just finished Ekun’s companion quest and killed a priestess when I started ch3. What I didn’t know was that you were required to visit him in the throne room a few weeks later.

Like I said every travel node takes a day and I was stocked up on rations and potions so I decided to wait until I finished ch3 but when i returned the bugs broke the game.


e6ef15  No.15564445

>>15564427

You see, once you return ten envoys come begging for your audience makes sense you were gone for three weeks. But the banker in the group breaks the conversation. If you choose to hire him he thanks you in a loop until you have to restart and tell him to fuck off instead.

Second Ekundayo never visited thus your kingdom events has him cluttering up your events page. Then they began to stack Linzi wants to visit but she never does. You have do a mission that’s undoable.

Third and this spoiler territory Tristan betrays you but if you had him as a councilor doing a job for you this messes you up even more. I’m convinced that’s what’s breaking my game.

Finally you fail a small side quest to tell a noble that his brother died. In Ch3 you find his corpse in a gulch but I didn’t return right away so he got tired of waiting thanked younyhen left.


000000  No.15564449

>>15563018

Many thanks.

>>15558245

Trolls are an evil race. Gygax would've been fine with Paladins killing orc babies. They're evil just by being trolls or orcs.

>>15563886

Congratulations, you have unlocked God Wizardry. Stinking cloud is a broken spell used properly. You are now better than 90% of Pathfinder PnP players, who think Wizards are all about casting fireballs and flying and shit.


42cac6  No.15564500

>>15564449

On the note of good Wizard spells, Grease is one of the best 1st level spells in the game.

It isn't affected by spell resistance and will still affect someone even if they save. This is especially broken in Crpgs where nothing flies.


000000  No.15564572

>>15564500

In the PnP game you can also use Grease to force people to drop items they are holding.

Color Spray and Sleep are also extremely powerful level 1 spells, but they very quickly become useless at higher levels.


42cac6  No.15564615

>>15564572

If your wizard doesn't pack sleep for the first few levels, you know you're dealing with an amatuer, unless your GM is throwing loads of ghosts at you. Then it's sensible to pack magic missile.


8beadf  No.15564694

I'm playing a sword & board fighter, trying to stay ahead in the AC game (28 at level 3 without a tower shit). Offensively, should I go the safe route with Weapon Focus Longsword, or should I fall for the bastard sword meme? How rare are they through the game?


e6ef15  No.15564698

>>15564694

I quit at the beginning of ch4 I’ve seen no long sword of note. I’ve seen 3 good bastard swords and 4 dueling swords.


4e272f  No.15564857

>>15564694

Scimitars are good. There are several unique scimitars better than +5.


084b59  No.15564904

>>15564500

>>15564449

Grease doesn't exist in this game.

Fireball is doubly useless because of the RTWP system. By the time you cast it everything's moved, so if you try to avoid hitting your team you'll fail, if you try to hit all the enemies you'll probably fail, and anything weak enough to die to fireball will probably already be dead anyway. I never even learned Fireball on my Sorcerer. I did take Controlled Fireball though, helps with swarms.

The thing about "god wizards" is they can't actually kill anything. They are very powerful SUPPORT classes, but without a martial character to do the hurting nothing will die.

>>15564857

I haven't seen any yet, but maybe somewhere I haven't explored or even later in the game (just finishing up the barbarian chapter, 4/5 depending on how you number things). I think the best I've found is a +3 with no special enchantments. My inquisitor is scimitar sword and board, so I am looking.


084b59  No.15564951

>>15564500

>>15564572

I imagine using Stinking Cloud and Grease a lot in PnP will earn you some hygiene-related nicknames.


42cac6  No.15564994

>>15564951

It also makes you a incredibly effective wizard. So just don't cast any spells next battle and show them why they need you.


8beadf  No.15565018

>>15564698

I honestly forgot what dueling swords were. From what I found, they're mostly used for builds that let it act as a finesse weapon. Not my area.

>I’ve seen no long sword of note

I haven't found any stand out amazing weapons yet, but the first magic weapon I found did happen to be a long sword. I would expect them to be one of the most plentiful weapons in the shops.

>>15564857

>>15564904

>specializing in a d6 Martial weapon

I can only assume you use it because of your diety. Then again, the damage die of your weapon isn't too important late game, so the unique scimitars might be interesting.

Seen any unique estocs? Their basic benefit over a longsword is they roll 2d4 instead of 1d8, meaning a higher minimum damage and more dice to roll on crits, and it crits on an 18 instead of a 19. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Keen estoc lying around somewhere.


084b59  No.15565040

>>15565018

Scimitars are one of the best 1-hand crit weapons (tied with rapiers), and I was able to choose a deity to give me the proficiency rather than wasting a feat. His melee attacks are more or less the LAST thing I care about. I could have gone Finesse with rapier and had more armor, but basically every single other character in my party is Dex-focused so I needed somebody with strength.


084b59  No.15565048

>>15565018

>>15565040

Actually there are some decent Estocs I've already found, and it is technically a better weapon than Scimitar or Rapier, but it would cost 2 feats just to use one, and an extra 1-2 damage isn't worth that at all.


8beadf  No.15565078

>>15565040

I forgot they were also 18-20 crit. I have an unnatural hatred of scimitars from some bad times in Mount & Blade, so I probably won't use one.

>>15565048

>but it would cost 2 feats just to use one

the Exotic tax and what else?


084b59  No.15565102

>>15565078

Martial proficiency. Inquisitor only has Simple+Deity's favored weapon. I chose Sarenrae specifically for the Scimitar


bcf351  No.15565110

>ctrl f

>PnP

>9 matches / 222 replies equals 4% faggot-o-meter

Could be worse.


8beadf  No.15565122

File: c706bf81f165fe8⋯.png (26.7 KB, 245x368, 245:368, c706bf81f165fe847307f25e20….png)

>>15565102

>Exotic first requires Martial proficiency

Shows how often I've ever looked at that feat before


000000  No.15565134

>>15564694

Bastard Sword isn't really worth a proficiency feat imo. It's neat for a Sword Saint Magus with the automatic proficiency, but not for a fighter. Pathfinder is caster edition though so you are strongly recommended to play some kind of spellcaster. If you must be a pure mundane warrior, play a Barbarian instead, as their rage powers give them all kinds of abilities Warriors do not get.

>>15564698

You can have one crafted for you just fine though.


000000  No.15565142

>>15565102

Wait, what? In Pathfinder the only requirement for Exotic Weapon Proficiency is 1 BAB. Did Kingmaker add a new prereq?


6e85c4  No.15565155

>>15563969

6/10. I actually really like the Pathfinder system, which is why I'm rating it even a 6. The party members feel more like damaged husks than adventurers or people capable of being statesmen. I don't want to hear most of their stories, and some of them are so poorly built that you can't rely on them to even do their job. I always hated the poz that comes related to Pathfinder, but at the table, we've always laughed at it and burned it out. But the game didn't let me lynch Rengongar, nor the nigger ranger of Torag who hits his dog.

I would raise it to 7/10 if the party members could have their classes retrained via the actual pen and paper rules, even if they limited the choice of each companion to 2 or 3 classes. I would raise it to 8/10 if it didn't take me half a minute every time I want to go somewhere or view a menu despite installing it on my SSD. I spend more time alt-tabbed out than I did when I played EVE Online a decade ago, just waiting for the game to load. I would raise it to 9/10 if half of my quests weren't bugged, and I didn't have to worry about random class features either not working or breaking the game. I actually play it for maybe two hours a day before I hit something broken and just stop.

>>15565142

They made martial proficiency give you proficiency with all martial weapons, and exotic proficiency requires martial proficiency.


084b59  No.15565160

File: d8dc40647c41f0c⋯.png (3.51 MB, 1920x1200, 8:5, exotic.png)

>>15565134

Yep. They've also made it so you can't equip non-proficient weapons AT ALL rather than giving them a -4 penalty.

>>15565134

There's one really powerful plot-related oversized bastard sword, +5 with like 5 additional levels of bonuses. The downside is that it makes you will save every round in combat or start attacking anything nearby.


084b59  No.15565167

>>15565134

>Pathfinder is caster edition though

Debatable. All the real power comes from melee. Casters in this game are just buff bots with the occasional disabling spell like stinking cloud. Barbarian's also kind of suck due to low AC. A fighter or monk can actually tank and expect to not get hit in combat, a Barbarian just gets minced on the front line, especially if he uses his Rage. When enemies are hitting for 50+ it doesn't matter that you have 20 more HP than anyone else and DR 6/-.


a999d5  No.15565182

>084b59

>(53)

holy reddit nigger wtf


084b59  No.15565196

>>15565167

Also, rage doesn't really do shit in terms of "spell like abilities" here. It's just +2 to 5 to attack, -2 to 3 armor, +Temp HP. The only non-standard thing is the beast totem effect, but who's going to make a barbarian around natural weapons? Fighters get the same +5 attack with their main weapon without having to rage and lose 2 armor, then they get more armor as well, then they get weapon spec for more damage. The only thing a barbarian really has going for him in the end is extra move speed and a small bit of DR.

>>15565182

>a999d5

>(1) and done

You need to go back


802f38  No.15565218

>Valerie's quest ability "Valorous" provided Strength and Constitution bonuses instead of Strength and Charisma. Resolution: "Valorous" ability provides Strength and Charisma, as per description.

What? That stupid waste of meat doesn't have enough CHA already?

>Some players have persistent issues loading game saves that we were unable to reproduce so far. After analyzing possible threats that may cause this issue we implemented improvements that hopefully would fix the problem.

Oh boys, I wonder how many new bugs this will spawn.


6e85c4  No.15565561

>Download 'latest' patch

>Barbarian drops from DR 80/- to DR 1/- like she should have

>Give her adamantine full plate again

>DR 4/-

>New patch comes out while I'm downloading and I haven't downloaded it yet

Cool DR just stacks now


084b59  No.15565576

>>15565561

Is it not supposed to? I honestly don't know but it would kind of suck if the Barbarian DR didn't stack with armor and shit, mainly since that's about the only thing the barb has over a fighter.


6e85c4  No.15565730

>>15565576

Honestly, the barbarian DR never stacking with anything in the pnp felt more like an oversight, so it stacking in Kingmaker, whether a bug or intended, is a good thing, in my opinion. Fighter has an option in one of the armor handbooks that just gives him DR/- that can stack with adamantine armor and his armor mastery ability anyway, so might as well make barbarian DR stack with other sources from the ground up.


ea86bc  No.15565824

File: b5d8d88ad5c33a6⋯.jpg (334.41 KB, 1560x725, 312:145, qPGvhUY.jpg)

File: 8568d2e18bf4b04⋯.png (62.5 KB, 311x340, 311:340, QLcLitI.png)

>>15552526

>>The least leftist taint in a nu-CRPG

which is really saying something considering it has shit like a lesbian barbarian and a nigger orc and a white elf in an open relationship where the player can be the cuck.


d4cd70  No.15565864

>>15565824

M-maybe ATOM RPG will be better


000000  No.15565913

>>15565155

>They made martial proficiency give you proficiency with all martial weapons, and exotic proficiency requires martial proficiency.

Oof, that's gonna blow for martial bards, martial clerics, inquisitors, and rogues at the least. Of course, if Ragathiel were a deity option they could just get bastard sword proficiency as a deity's favored weapon.

>>15565160

Hm, can you still equip bastards swords 2-handed as a martial weapon?

>>15565167

>debatable

No, it isn't. Only noobs try to debate that. Stinking cloud destroys an entire group of enemies and there are tons of other spells that do the same. Even outside of save-or-lose effects like that, spellcasters have a ton of options that can counteract and trivialize the challenge you are facing.

>Barbarians also kind of suck due to low AC.

Not really. Heavy armor proficiency is overrated if you have good dex (and you can go armored hulk if you really want heavy armor). Factor in Beast Totem and Guarded Stance, and Barbarians get +2 AC every 4 levels.

>>15565218

Just make her a Feyspeaker Druid, Archaeologist Bard, or Eldritch Scion Magus. They're all charisma-based spellcasters that have perfectly good martial combat abilities.

* Feyspeaker Druid as a divine caster does not care about arcane armor spell failure, but cannot equip metal and is limited to leather and hide armors as a result until you get dragonscale armor (however, they get a Barkskin spell that buffs armor). The tower shield is wood though, so that's not a problem. For martial combat they're usually big on turning into giant animals and beating the shit out of things. The animal companion is pretty dope too.

* Eldritch Scion Magus cannot use shields but can cast in light armor at 1, medium at 7, and heavy at 13 (but metal armor made of mithral counts as 1 category lighter). They do get spell combat allowing them to cast in 1 hand and attack with the other. In addition they can use their magus arcana to boost their attack and damage, and they get a Sorcerer bloodline on top of that for more boosts.

* Archaeologist Bard gets the best saving throw bonuses as well as bonuses to attack and damage (Archaeologist's Luck), has some buff spells up his sleeves, and can equip shields (even tower shields, although bards are normally not proficient) and light armor while spellcasting. They do not get higher armor proficiencies (because Chelish Diva and Arcane Duelist archetypes are not options for some sad reason), but they can equip a mithral breastplate (medium armor) as though it were light armor. Given a +6 to all physical stats belt and another +1 to dex from levelups, she will max out the armor bonus anyway. If you plan on ditching the gnome bard, then you might prefer a different Bard for the Inspire Courage partybuff.

Archaeologist Bard is the best AC (assuming you use a (tower) shield and mithral breastplate and max dex with a belt), the best saves, the best skills, and packs some great buff//utility spells and doubles as the party rogue while still performing decently as an attacker. Eldritch Scion Magus is probably the best at attacking (as long as she has arcane pool points, which are far more limited than an Archaeologist Bard's luck), has a solid spell selection, but has slightly weaker AC and hideously bad skills. Feyspeaker Druid has a great spell selection, 6 skills per level (but no bonuses to them like the Bard does), wildshape (a shittier version, but wildshape is still fucking good), and an animal companion (or domain).

Jank edition: Level her straight into Knife Master Rogue and go dex-crazy. With her retarded AC and health she can dive right into the middle of shit and flank for huge sneak attacks.


084b59  No.15565958

>>15565730

>Hm, can you still equip bastards swords 2-handed as a martial weapon?

Not Martial, bastard swords are exclusively Exotic in this. The Oversized version is always two-handed, I think you can (automatically) 2-hand a regular one if your off hand is free, not sure.

>Stinking cloud destroys an entire group of enemies

Spellcasters are useful, but they don't kill anything. Stinking cloud doesn't do anything to kill your enemies, you expect your wizard to spend the next 10 rounds waiting to crit whatever he just nauseated? Spellcasters are support. They buff allies and debuff enemies. They are absolutely invaluable, but it's the martial (or pet) on the receiving end of the buff that does all the heavy lifting. Stinking Cloud is pretty OP but it doesn't work on everything, and when it doesn't work you'd better damn well hope you've got someone who can make good use of the dozen or so buffs you dump on him.

>Factor in Beast Totem and Guarded Stance, and Barbarians get +2 AC every 4 levels

Guess you are right about beast totem, I didn't realize it was a base bonus rather than an enhancement bonus (which wouldn't stack with equipment). That would put them at least on par. It's not so much the heavy armor that I'm concerned with as the -2 from raging and whatever a fighter can squeeze out of armor training and extra feats. Fighter bonus feats are pretty good too you know.

Of course, in this game the proper choice for a Barbarian is Mad Dog. Smilodons are OP as fuck, so it doesn't matter how much you argue back and forth between fighter or barbarian when you've got a pet that can outfight both.


ea86bc  No.15565986

>>15565889

>So deep.

the writing or the orc cock in her cunt?

Bizarrely, that paragraph reminds me of OJ Simpson. I remember stories about how he was supposedly ok with his wife cucking him. Guys were kind of creeped out about how he would see them with his wife and smile and talk to them for a bit. The one day he just went into Uruk-hai mode and stabbed the shit out of her and her latest fuck buddy.

I take some comfort in the idea that Octavia end up dead in a ditch some day and Tyrone here will go on a quest to "find the real killer" in some other kingdom.


f9abc1  No.15565988

File: f17b811b82d9387⋯.gif (492.81 KB, 498x278, 249:139, 81ebd9e989aaf3779a4f34b000….gif)

>>15565824

>Making it to that dialogue

>Not shoah'ing them when you first meet


084b59  No.15565996

>>15565988

The half elf is far too useful in kingdom build mode. I'd murder the shit out of the half orc if I could though, just for being Chaotic Evil


d1681c  No.15566006

>>15563533

What's the tax policy in your kingdom? Did you just deport your undesirables or did you go full genocide?


d1681c  No.15566016

>>15565988

Octavia is too cute. She'll be part of my harem for later. The orc is going to be fed to a hydra later.


fa80a3  No.15566018

>>15565986

He's all smiles but the reality is he's seething underneath, always assume any cuck who is friendly to you while in the middle of being the bull is a ticking time bomb.


294231  No.15566033

>>15566016

I wish this game had character developing quests e.g make valerie stop being so fucking stupid and become a fucking paladin like you were supposed to you waste of stats and also grow out your hair.


ea86bc  No.15566036

>>15565988

checked. i didn't even know what they were until I got to that dialog.

>>15566016

>>15565996

the cuckoldry itt

once I learned she was blacked and that they were both degenerates, I knew both needed to die.


d4cd70  No.15566038

>>15566033

>Grow out your hair

EVERYONE MAKE WAY

A MAN WITH GOOD TASTE COMING THROUGH


ea86bc  No.15566047

>>15566033

I personally can't wait until we get the ability to make BG-style mods that make exactly these kind of character changes.


084b59  No.15566117

So I just got a Wand from one of my artisans with 0 charges, no name, and worth 33k to sell.


084b59  No.15566120

File: 229bb74ff41597f⋯.png (204.29 KB, 437x270, 437:270, what is it.png)


cf443a  No.15566155

File: 566abde2363bc98⋯.jpg (46.28 KB, 500x750, 2:3, 39sigm72l2u01.jpg)

So is Buckfinder Cuckmaker worth a pirate if you're entirely allergic to leftism?


084b59  No.15566216

>>15566155

If your that much a thin skinned faggot, what games even are there?


5eb857  No.15566227

>>15566155

You can make your own party and do whatever the fuck you want, so yeah. Ideally though, there should be a mod that makes the custom characters cost no money.


d4cd70  No.15566231

>>15566216

I've not encountered any strong wymyn in ToEE yet


5eb857  No.15566236

>>15566231

>being this disingenuous

Nigger, the chain mail bikini has been a thing since the 60s.


98008c  No.15566241

>>15566155

entirely allergic no, slightly allergic maybe. i mean shit like this is in the game >>15565824

>>15566120

Its a bug, there are hundreds of em, found a exploit for infinite exp. During Ch3 in the city of hollow eyes if you save the defaced sister, you can turn the quest in to Hilla the barbarian repeatedly for 235 exp each time.


5eb857  No.15566247

>>15566241

>companions are pozzed

You don't need to interact with any of your companions though. In fact you can tell all of them to fuck off immediately.


084b59  No.15566256

>>15566247

Enjoy being unable to use the kingdom builder at all


98008c  No.15566263

>>15566247

he asked if its worth it and i provided an example if he can't pass that example then he shouldn't pirate it.

But frankly he still shouldn't pirate it considering how annoying these bugs are. id give it a month


d4cd70  No.15566276

>>15566247

You can't else the kingdom is unplayable.


6c71ff  No.15566285

>>15566236

Chain mail bikinis are more fan service than stronk wymyn.

>proof?

Feminists bitching about "male gaze" and "stare rape" and it being phased out of a lot of fantasy art nowadays.


5eb857  No.15566361

>>15566256

>>15566276

You don't really need to interact with them to assign them in advisor slots though. I did hear that if you don't complete their quests, bad shit might happen, but I haven't gotten that far in the game so I don't know yet. For what it's worth, I regret dedicating a run to using the companions just to see what they'd be like, because they all suck for at least one critical reason or another. Amiri wastes a feat on proficiency for her weapon which falls off long before level 10, etc. I made a different run where I hired another character and it's going much better. I think doing 3 created characters and 3 companions that you drag along just to do quests might be the most "optimal" way to play this campaign.

>>15566263

Agreed, the bugs are a shitshow. I wouldn't tell anyone to play the game right now unless they have a lot of patience like I do.

>>15566285

Meh, I find Amiri's design to be pretty fanservicey. She could be wearing a draping suit of hides like you'd expect a tribal who's slain a lot of beasts to do, but instead she shows off her underboob and belly because she was designed for marketability. She has the mind of a child and is seemingly reliant on your character for approval so to say she is a "stronk womyn" is a stretch in my book. There's nothing atypical about Linzi, she's basically a spitting image of the writer's friend in college and same for the gnome alchemist. Jaethal is probably the strongest of all the female characters I guess, but she's also undead and blessed by the god of undeath. So Octavia's probably the second "most feminist" character in the bunch, admittedly, behind Valerie, whose character arc is frankly cringeworthy, especially the duel where you just sit there and watch, facepalming as she most likely doesn't win (unless you delay the quest until she's higher level, I guess). But by losing she gains a scar on her portrait which makes her so stronk! Man, I'm cringing again just thinking about it. Okay, I concede, even just those two characters annoy me too much.


084b59  No.15566399

>>15566361

She gets the scar win or lose, but in the next major step of her quest she loses the scar, turns out to have been a divine punishment or something.

Also as for winning that encounter, there is (or was) some kind of glitch where during solo encounters you could use items directly from your inventory instantly (basically a free action), so you could chug a stack of potions and eventually outlast the paladin and his fucking lay on hands+sunder armor spam.


98008c  No.15566423

>>15566393

>>15566399

Really? because when i finished her quest she still carried it. Although to be fair i told her to keep the scar and not take suspicious healing potions from unreliable sources.

Then she gets unhappy because no one pays attention to her anymore, told her to commit to her beliefs if she believes she can stand on her own feet with just her skills as a fighter keep the scar if she's a coward who runs away at the first sign of danger get a priest and heal yourself.

>>15566361

>Agreed, the bugs are a shitshow. I wouldn't tell anyone to play the game right now unless they have a lot of patience like I do.

There's signs of a good game but holy cow are the bugs bringing it down.

> I find Amiri's design to be pretty fanservicey. She could be wearing a draping suit of hides like you'd expect a tribal who's slain a lot of beasts to do,

She thinks its too hot in your lands, in a resting conversation with Valerie she's told to wear armor and instead she tells Valerie to wear less and show off her boobs. im surprised she wasn't decked out.


084b59  No.15566427

>>15566423

There's a quest where you have to go to the Paladin's temple, forget the name of it, and they put Valerie on trial. After succeeding there (and passing all 3 or 4 persuasion 30 checks) the scar vanished.


5eb857  No.15566434

>>15566423

>brown skin, obviously sun touched

>"it's too hot in your lands"

What? Is this some we wuz Vikings type shit?


98008c  No.15566479

File: 75f6c86fc147e64⋯.png (1.02 MB, 765x1008, 85:112, Conan.png)

>>15566434

No that would be Amiri of Numeria paying homage to Conan of Cimmeria. In Conan's case he wants to wear armor but people keep robbing him so he starts over with nothing but his under wear fucking status quo comic bullshit.

>What? Is this some we wuz Vikings type shit?

Funny you should mention that i just played a quest and found out some of the barbarian clans have half-orcs because they enjoy sleeping with their orc neighbors.


5eb857  No.15566489

>>15566468

>>15566479

I get the Conan vibe, I just don't understand why their lands are supposed to be cold if they look like that.


b689b5  No.15566494

>>15566489

A cold environment does not equate to pale skin color.


51c4f2  No.15566504

>>15566479

He should wear chainmail.


294231  No.15566507

File: 23b47a725701577⋯.jpg (70.48 KB, 1000x667, 1000:667, 4736668 flip.jpg)

File: 7a52275e6e6900f⋯.jpg (32.81 KB, 495x445, 99:89, Linzi crop.jpg)

I can't unsee it.


98008c  No.15566534

File: dd79f359d201c7a⋯.png (203.45 KB, 800x645, 160:129, Rejoice.png)

File: 2064f94bf3b5708⋯.jpg (32.03 KB, 480x360, 4:3, scalemail.jpg)

>>15566427

oh so its a punishment sent by god that she should overcome.

>>15566489

Who knows i'll allow them the artistic license.

>>15566494

Cold ass places generally don't produce bronze people like Conan and Amiri, the Mediterranean produces that.

>>15566504

its his armor of choice, he wears Chainmail but for the life of me i can't find any pictures.


b689b5  No.15566549

>>15566534

Someone hasn't heard of the Inuit.


d1681c  No.15566571

File: ef92015c74919ac⋯.jpg (15.02 KB, 350x273, 50:39, lewd.jpg)

>>15566507

That's hot.


000000  No.15566590

>>15565958

>Spellcasters are useful, but they don't kill anything. Stinking cloud doesn't do anything to kill your enemies, you expect your wizard to spend the next 10 rounds waiting to crit whatever he just nauseated?

Sure but here the martials are playing the mop-up squad while the enemies are disabled into the ground and thoroughly useless.

>Spellcasters are support.

Nah, spellcasters can totally kill shit playing a cheesed blaster caster, or kill shit with a metamagic rod to Maximize Enervation, or kill shit with a high Phantasmal Killer DC, not to mention the wizard can summon his own minions, animate a bunch of undead, or just turn into a giant monster with one of his shapeshifting spells if he's really pressed for damage. Hell if a spellcaster casts Transformation he basically becomes a Warrior for its duration, with full BAB and martial proficiency, but no ability to cast spells (shit choice honestly, but spellcasters can even play as over-buffed martials if they want, with their spells).

>Guess you are right about beast totem, I didn't realize it was a base bonus rather than an enhancement bonus (which wouldn't stack with equipment). That would put them at least on par. It's not so much the heavy armor that I'm concerned with as the -2 from raging and whatever a fighter can squeeze out of armor training and extra feats.

Incidentally, Lethal Stance sucks if you have a Bard in the party, since competence bonuses don't stack. It's either Reckless Stance or Guarded Stance. Funnily enough they weren't stances in Pathfinder PnP so you could stack everything (although the original ability Lethal Stance was based on wasn't really worth taking).

>Fighter bonus feats are pretty good too you know.

Not that good to be honest. After your build-essential feats, the left-over feats are pretty middling minor bonuses to attack and damage, maybe a bonus to AC here or there. You'll still take them because you can, but the Barbarian rage powers tend to be much better than those feats, although Kingmaker doesn't have that many powers. That said, Fighters do make good archers with their massive set of feats, and with Gloves of Dueling to boost their weapon training bonus. Bracers of Archery are worthless as fuck with a Bard providing Inspire Courage though. The best archers are Paladins though, since Divine Bond, Divine Favor spell, and Smite Evil can make for some ridiculously destructive archery.

>>15566033

READ THIS GIANT FUCKING POST ON HOW TO MAKE VALERIE NOT SHIT: >>15565913

Bottom reply is what you ought to read.


084b59  No.15566611

>>15566590

Oddly enough "paladin archer" is exactly what I made my main hero. I needed the extra healing early on and wanted a charisma-based main character so I could pass persuasion checks. I figured the party was already fairly strong in melee and I didn't want my main character directly on the front line for an instant loss.


98008c  No.15566627

>>15566549

>Cold ass places generally don't produce bronze people like Conan and Amiri

Also note the fact that they're not light skinned even though they live in cold ass regions are why some scientists spend their time researching this phenomenon


b689b5  No.15566632

>>15566627

It's called sunlight you dope.


d4cd70  No.15566638

>>15566632

You mean that thing there's less of in cold regions thus leading to evolution favoring fairskinned people as they better absorb it?


5eb857  No.15566642

>>15566590

>Maximized Enervation

Ah yes, Enervation is technically a spell that can crit. We killed a black dragon that way in my tabletop campaign once. Fun times.


b689b5  No.15566656

>>15566638

>less sunlight

>in a wide open environment covered in frozen, light-reflecting water crystals as far as the eye can see

> where the majority of the wildlife consists of dark-skinned mammals covered in white fur.


5eb857  No.15566664

>>15566656

Alright, explain why white people exist then and why Inuit are the norm rather than the exception.

Also, you forgot about the 3/4s of the year where the sun is only glancing at their part of the world due to the fact that they're far away from the equator. I hope you know enough about geometry to understand that the equator receives more sunlight during the year overall than polar parts of the world.


5eb857  No.15566711

>>15565913

Let me just also say that if you want a durable character Druid is the fucking way to go. Druids in D&D and Pathfinder are said to be "onions" because they use their shapeshifting abilities to give themselves "layers" of HP due to how the rules for HP work between forms. Essentially, they have a higher HP total as their alternate shape so that when they shift back, they still have enough HP to not take damage because it's not proportional. So the onion druids have as many layers as they have castings of their shapeshift ability.


084b59  No.15566739

>>15566711

I found druid forms to be way too squishy myself. I wanted to use shapeshifting at first, but then I gave up on the concept and just used her as a buff bot with a crossbow and a godlike pet instead.


5eb857  No.15566768

>>15566739

Really? That's strange. I thought that was one of the older/more fundamental builds in the system.


084b59  No.15566817

>>15566768

It's possible I just don't know how to make it work, but in terms of raw stats a druid shapeshifted into a smilodon is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than a smilodon pet, both on attack and defense. It makes her my most vulnerable party member, and doesn't provide enough damage to be worth it. Better to just let the pets and martials do the fighting while she stands back with a crossbow (less for damage it does than to keep her from charging into melee).


6e85c4  No.15566894

File: 03e724ecbaf3d8f⋯.png (25.85 KB, 1022x244, 511:122, paladin_code_shelyn.png)

File: b16689f9961120a⋯.png (549.69 KB, 837x389, 837:389, magic_vestment_shield.png)

>Valerie quest

Why did he not lose his Paladin powers on the spot by violating about half of the Shelyn paladin code in the span of a minute? Showing up and saying, "bitch get in the car," before smashing her face in doesn't sound like carrying a rose.

Also, I see Magic Vestment just doesn't work. It doesn't raise the armor to +2, and doesn't do anything to the shield at all.


000000  No.15566903

>>15566711

Nope, that's 5E druids which are all about temporary hp. PF druids just have constitution bonuses like a barbarian's rage, which means once they exit the wild shape they keep all the damage they took, only they have lower current and max hp now. So with enough damage, exiting wildshape can even kill them. However, druids don't auto-exit wildshape while unconscious or paralyzed or shit, and wildshape lasts for hours, so usually you can just heal them back up before they exit wildshape. They can still get nifty bonuses to natural armor and constitution and dex while wildshaped though.


e64258  No.15566955

>>15566434

That's easy. She left her cold homeland and has gained a tan since then.


084b59  No.15566969

File: 6182be1836e2cbc⋯.jpg (580.22 KB, 1920x1200, 8:5, magic vestment.jpg)

>>15566894

>Working fine for me. Note that the armor and shield are not supposed to stack, they are both enhancement bonuses


000000  No.15566974

>>15566894

No sane GM ever enforces deity-specific paladin codes except in broad, loose strokes. Shelyn's code in particular is fucking unplayable insanity in how it forces paladins to always accept surrenders, never strike first, and generally suggests to be a pacifist shit. In a game where 90% of the game revolves around combat and needing to kill shit, do you think it'll be funny if a GM makes you fall because you decided to charge an enemy when you'd won initiative? Or that you have to spare a scheming bastard villain who surrenders because apparently your new code obligates you to be Lawful Stupid? Shit's fucking insane. A lot of those deity codes of conduct are best ignored or played very loosely, unless you want to destroy the class. In general a heavy code of conduct for a Paladin is just a great way to fuck over a Paladin player's fun and freedom.

The normal standard is to treat that shit as flavor text, not as actual rules.


d4cd70  No.15566995

>>15566974

That's the player's fault for making a retarded decision.


084b59  No.15567001

>>15566995

I assume by "retarded decision" you mean choosing to serve the psycho god of beauty? Or do you just mean being a paladin in general?


d4cd70  No.15567010

>>15567001

The former, I'd imagine some gods aren't that stupid. I'd never play LG though because D&D alignments are retarded.

Are blackguards less stupid, or are they just chaotic stupid?


000000  No.15567012

>>15566974

Hell, in the context of the above, if a GM makes a Paladin of Shelyn fall for scarring someone and making them ugly, we have a major problem since Paladins are supposed to swing swords and hurt bad people.

>>15566995

The only way to escape that shit would be to never serve the deity of choice. I mean that's the choice the GM would really be making there if he chooses to implement their deity CoC. It just drives people away from the deity because no one would want the CoC.


d4cd70  No.15567020

>>15567012

What's wrong with something existing that isn't conducive to playing? I agree that this god would be unplayable for a paladin. So? Leave it to NPCs.


9a32fe  No.15567021

>>15566974

sounds like you're the kind of GM who fails to reward players for resolving conflicts by atypical means. Surely you're not so crass as to only divvy out exp for slain enemies


000000  No.15567033

>>15567020

You can do that, but it's not improving the game any. Just makes it worse.

>>15567021

I love solving problems through atypical means and I encourage it, but straitjackets are typically not the way to do it, especially of the Paladin variety, as the entire playgroup suffers under that shit. Then again if I'm GMing I wouldn't GM Pathfinder to begin with.


d4cd70  No.15567037

>>15567033

>Giving flavor to NPCs that the player technically can do but logically shouldn't makes the game bad

Well, fuck. I guess the next time I GM GURPS I'll make sure that no farmers exist. I wouldn't want to worsen the player's experience by having roles exist that wouldn't be fun to fill.


084b59  No.15567058

>>15567012

I think that lawful good is the best alignment because it forces you to consider your choices in more depth. Yes it's restrictive, but half the fun comes from the restrictions anyway.


6e85c4  No.15567066

>>15566969

Magic vestment on a shield is an enhancement bonus to the shield AC while magic vestment on an armor is an enhancement bonus to the armor AC. They do not compete with each other because shield AC and armor AC are both separate values.

That being said, they're not suppose to stack with your magic armor, so a +2 chainmail receiving a +2 magic vestment should get no bonus, because the +2 armor is already a +2 enhancement bonus, while in your picture, the enhancement bonus from magic vestment (+3) is stacking with the enhancement bonus from your armor (+4), for a total enhancement bonus of +7, when Pathfinder's maximum enhancement bonus is +5. I shouldn't have an issue with it recognizing it's not supposed to stack with the enhancement bonus, since I only have a +1 on my armor and a non-magical tower shield, so it should raise them both to +2.

It's not working as it's supposed to for either of us. Yours is stacking when it shouldn't, and mine isn't working at all. I'm on the last 1.0.6 patch, I'm going to update to 1.0.7 and see if it helps.

>>15566974

> do you think it'll be funny if a GM makes you fall because you decided to charge an enemy when you'd won initiative?

No, because the code says, "unless it is the only way to protect the innocent", and I'm pretty sure that covers anything that's not a living humanoid, and then covers any humanoid that is currently engaged in a malicious activity that needs stopped. You can reason that charging an enemy you beat out in initiative is required to protect the innocent, less-crunchy members in your party.

>Or that you have to spare a scheming bastard villain who surrenders

No, because capturing someone and putting them through the justice system is generally a lawful thing to do.

>because apparently your new code obligates you to be Lawful Stupid?

It sounds like you only know how to play lawful stupid and not various means of lawful. Accepting someone's surrender is a normal thing. Capturing someone is a normal thing. Having someone surrender doesn't mean you pat their dick and send them back into the wild. You slap them in chains and let them contemplate their mistakes. By Shelyn's code, this would be "saving a life", which could result in an "awakened soul". Some people actually do reform after prison, because not everyone who does something bad is a chaotic evil necromancer trying to destroy the world.

>>15567012

>Hell, in the context of the above, if a GM makes a Paladin of Shelyn fall for scarring someone and making them ugly, we have a major problem since Paladins are supposed to swing swords and hurt bad people.

Paladins are not supposed to hunt down women who are trying to flee them and bludgeon them to shit because they don't like their attitudes. Find me a DM who won't fall a paladin for beating the piss out of someone who skips school.

I believe the "never strike first" principle is rough, though I wouldn't say it's unplayable at all. Shittier DMs do things like force you to fall for being put into a position where you have to choose between saving a child or saving a village with no correct answer in their eyes. I've played with faggots like that back in 3.5. Shelyn's code is a blessing compared to those cock gobblers.


6e85c4  No.15567083

Also, Torag's code is fun because it sanctions you being a mute sociopath.


d4cd70  No.15567092

>>15567058

I think any lawful alignment can be equally interesting. You could consider say, a modern NatSoc LN or LE (or LG) depending on where you are since good/evil in D&D and derivatives basically means their relation to greater society, but regardless of which they are they have codes and ideals to follow that may, at times, conflict with pragmatism and result in more interesting decisions.


084b59  No.15567100

>>15567066

My version is up to date, but I know that Magic Vestment was working in 1.0.3 as well.

It's may be a mistake more so than a bug, but an armor's enhancement level is added as an "armor" bonus, NOT an enhancement bonus. It's included in the number representing the armor's base AC value. The difference is significant when considering Bracers of Armor/Mage Armor.


d1681c  No.15567106

I have an important issue to discuss. Once I cuck Regognar, should I dispose of his useless body or should I can keep cucking him?


d4cd70  No.15567112

>>15567106

Cucking someone is a sin so you should get him killed in such a fashion as gives you plausible deniability then spend the money that could be used to resurrect him on housing for proper human folk.


084b59  No.15567115

>>15567092

LN and LE are just too blue and orange for me I guess. LN and LE both seem to value rules over common sense, whereas LG is all about the struggle of balancing the two.


d4cd70  No.15567133

>>15567115

The thing is that rules (in a sane society) often trump common sense. Sure, an outcome might not be perfect for the exact scenario you're in, say someone being punished for a justified crime because it isn't seen as justified by the law, but on the whole this is far superior to uncodified pardons as that is seen as and can lead to totally arbitrary sentencing.


5eb857  No.15567234

>>15566974

You're wrong you utter pleb. The entire point of the paladin is to be a roleplaying challenge. It was originally designed for experienced players who want a break from murderhoboing. Being strict about codes can actually make for a pretty interesting campaign if your players and GMs aren't selfish faggots about it.


000000  No.15567289

>>15567037

>Well, fuck. I guess the next time I GM GURPS I'll make sure that no farmers exist. I wouldn't want to worsen the player's experience by having roles exist that wouldn't be fun to fill.

That's not how it works, man. I'm saying you shouldn't put trap options in front of a player by adding new restrictions that break existing shit. The codes of conduct are a relatively new thing that destroy the value of taking that deity as that class. In PF a bit of houseruling is pretty much a necessity. In fact the need for so much houseruling is one of the major reasons why it's a shit system.

You run GURPS, right? Next time you run GURPS, make sure to run all the rules from the entire BASIC set and every splatbook. See how that works for you. It'd be unplayably fucking bad. Pathfinder runs into similar issues if you try to declare you should run every rule in it as written even though shit's inconsistent as fuck and more deleterious than helpful. So sometimes we say "we don't run these rules, because they are dumb as fuck for our campaign" except in the case of Paizo and Pathfinder, sometimes the rules they come up with are just dumb in general.

>>15567066

>No, because the code says, "unless it is the only way to protect the innocent", and I'm pretty sure that covers anything that's not a living humanoid, and then covers any humanoid that is currently engaged in a malicious activity that needs stopped. You can reason that charging an enemy you beat out in initiative is required to protect the innocent, less-crunchy members in your party.

No one in your party counts as an innocent, even if they count as good people. Innocents are the bystanders who have no part of it. And if there is no innocent villager or whatever about to get injured in the corner, I don't think you get to collect the "it is the only way to protect the innocent" exemption towards not attacking first.

>No, because capturing someone and putting them through the justice system is generally a lawful thing to do.

Paladins can get away with being adjudicators of the law themselves tbh. That's usually part of their duty anyway.

>It sounds like you only know how to play lawful stupid and not various means of lawful. Accepting someone's surrender is a normal thing. Capturing someone is a normal thing. Having someone surrender doesn't mean you pat their dick and send them back into the wild. You slap them in chains and let them contemplate their mistakes. By Shelyn's code, this would be "saving a life", which could result in an "awakened soul". Some people actually do reform after prison, because not everyone who does something bad is a chaotic evil necromancer trying to destroy the world.

No man. Accepting surrender is well and good if it is a reasonable surrender, but there are a lot of "I surrender suckers!" type shenanigans where the surrender is either a trap or going to result in a cockroach villain making his exit because he has allies and means to bust out of prison or lawyer his way out or whatever the fuck. You are required to accept every surrender here. See the problem now? Would your party want to play with a Paladin who tries to save the villain who is going to escape every time and fuck up more shit?

>Paladins are not supposed to hunt down women who are trying to flee them and bludgeon them to shit because they don't like their attitudes. Find me a DM who won't fall a paladin for beating the piss out of someone who skips school.

Falling a paladin is harsh and kinda inappropriate, as it's on the lawful stupid side of things, but it's not evil or chaotic and thus not fall-worthy. Stern disciplinarian teachers who chase down and cane students for playing hooky aren't evil for doing so, even if their conduct is fucking shitty, neither are military instructors who can have your ass hunted down and fucking punished if you try to desert, and a paladin training is both a school and a military order, and being paladins they trend heavily towards the "discipline" side of things (lawful) not the "do what you think is best, oaths and duties be damned" side of things (chaotic). Also this is Pathfinder. In one AP, the Paladin goddess herself (Iomedae) summons your party to her and does way more retarded and fucked up shit to your party, basically smiting them around for shitty reasons and possibly TPKing you in the process. Wrath of the Righteous 5, to be exact.

You can chew out the paladin for being a shithead but I wouldn't fall them over something like that. It's not sufficiently transgressive.

>>15567234

>Any reason to stop being a murderhobo is a good reason

Don't be an idiot. You have to give proper incentives, not just "do it my way or you fall" shit.


084b59  No.15567303

Fuck whoever's idea it was to split artifacts into 20 fucking pieces and spread them in random junk piles all over the damn world. I don't mind "hidden", what I mind is no possible way to know where to look, how many or left or if I missed one.


d4cd70  No.15567341

>>15567303

What I hate is there is zero indication of when you have enough, so you have to skip through 12 pointless dialogue things every fucking time you want to sell dryad farts.

>>15567289

>That's not how it works, man. I'm saying you shouldn't put trap options in front of a player by adding new restrictions that break existing shit.

It isn't really a trap option if it tells you what's wrong with it right on the tin.

It's an extremely rigid code. That's the drawback. This isn't like taking a feat that seems decent on reading it but you realize later is never useful, the drawback is intrinsically linked with the choice. If a player wants to play a paladin of Shelyn and fucks it up that's his fault for playing a retarded character. Your GURPS analogy seems like a complete non sequitur to me.


000000  No.15567359

>>15567341

>It isn't really a trap option if it tells you what's wrong with it right on the tin.

How the fuck does it tell you what's wrong with it right on the tin? It's a classic case of picking an option from book A that destroys you because of a new rule that comes with it according to book Z. There are tons of books where Shelyn's pantheon of gods are detailed and only one where this code of conduct crap is written, and that's a book that came much later than most of the books where the gods were established. Moreover trap options are trap options even if you can directly figure out they are bad simply because they do no good and serve more to fuck you over if you were stupid enough not to understand how bad it could be and end up taking it.

>Your GURPS analogy seems like a complete non sequitur to me.

The analogy is plain and simple: We don't run every fucking rule because it would ruin the game. That goes for GURPS. It goes for Pathfinder. Figure it out.


084b59  No.15567390

Well the level 7 sorcerer/wizard spells suck in this game, best I can get is Firebrand and Prismatic Spray, so a +1d6 fire damage party buff and rng the movie: the game: the spell.


d4cd70  No.15567392

>>15567359

>>15567359

>It's a classic case of picking an option from book A that destroys you because of a new rule that comes with it according to book Z.

The only case in which I could possibly see this being a problem would be if a player first made a paladin of Sherlyn with a homebrewed CoC (I cannot imagine a GM letting a paladin play without one especially for such a strict god) due to only having the book detailing a fuckload of gods and not the one giving the specifics for this one and then the GM switching to "official" CoC.

That extremely specific case would be the fault of the GM. It would be the same as building a character around an interpretation of the rules the GM and player both agreed upon that was later made useless by errata.

You are saying that a GM shouldn't follow restrictive rules because the player could potentially not understand them. That's fucking stupid. If I was GMing pathfinder and one of my players wanted to be a paladin of greasy farts I would make sure he understood he would fall if his diet didn't conform to the strict diet mandated, and give him some examples of some things problems he might have.


000000  No.15567396

>>15567392

Wrong. Here, for an explanation of how it goes down:

>Run Pathfinder

>Player finds Shelyn in the Pathfinder Core book, runs with her as his patron deity in Pathfinder

>Say "sure"

>His party stumbles on a group of goblins

>Paladin wins initiative, charges

>Fall him on the spot for attacking first

>He goes "wtf?!"

>Tell him "Well according to the book there's a Paladin code of conduct now and you can't attack first!"

>he checks Inner Sea World Guide, looks up Shelyn some more, doesn't see it

>he checks Gods and Magic, looks up Shelyn in detail, finds bonus spells for paladins of Shelyn, still doesn't see any code of conduct

>he considers GM full of shit

>"No no no, you need to look at page 142 of Inner Sea Gods (Seriously!) there's a second code of conduct for paladins of Shelyn now, so you fall!"

Oh yeah, very straightforward, right on the tin, not a trap. Totally reasonable to expect someone to see that coming.


d4cd70  No.15567417

>>15567396

To which I would reply, were I said hypothetical player

>Why didn't you say we were using Inner Sea Gods? It has mechanical changes depending on your god besides CoC. Stating which splat books you're using is extremely important. Are you new to GMing or just an asshole?


6e85c4  No.15567420

>>15567289

>Paladins can get away with being adjudicators of the law themselves tbh. That's usually part of their duty anyway.

That wholly depends on where they are, in what setting, and the current relation with local law. Though I agree that they typically are afforded that, I also have to note that instant executions are not the only form of justice. A paladin could easily determine that a stolen item should be returned, and the criminal, despite fighting back, should serve time in prison.

>Falling a paladin is harsh and kinda inappropriate, as it's on the lawful stupid side of things, but it's not evil or chaotic

I would consider brutalizing someone for being snarky to you both a non-lawful and a non-good act. I would go as far as to call that a chaotic act that could potentially be considered evil. I can't see how a paladin could rationalize that action in their head without agreeing that they lost control and did something they shouldn't have done.

>You are required to accept every surrender here. See the problem now?

No, because we've basically mastered the art of throwing someone to the ground and subduing them in the modern world. I imagine an instrument of divine power clad in magical platemail equipped with artifacts beyond comprehension with the strength of 10 strongmen would be able to subdue someone just as well. Accepting a bandit's surrender and letting him stab you just to accept his next surrender is lawful stupid. The first thing you're supposed to do when rounding up captives is to disable them. And when you walk into a bandit lair and they yell, "We surrender, don't attack!" you don't walk into the kill zone, that's lawful stupid. You yell back, "drop your weapons and file out, hands up, one at a time," and then subdue them. Sense motive also exists for a reason - having it on hand will let you determine whether or not they are lying to you. Also, a fake surrender is a great way to pull on a character, just like spell resistance will pull on your mages. If every fight results in a fake surrender, that's your DM being a cunt and trying to punish you for playing that character, just like every enemy having SR 19 at level 5 is also your DM being a cunt and trying to punish a person for playing a caster. Cunty DMs will be cunts.

Also, all of that is, of course, me viewing the perspective from a paladin of Shelyn. If a group of bandits surrendered to a paladin of Torag, he'd walk up, shake his hand to accept surrender, and crush his skull in before killing the rest of the bandits, and then he'd melt down all of their pig metal weapons and craft a masterwork plate out of it. A paladin of Abadar would demand their surrender, and put down any that refuse to comply on the spot. I feel like the codes give you direction in these situations, because everyone has a different view on what a paladin should be, even if just slightly.

Honestly, I think the reason we don't see eye-to-eye on this is that we have a radically different perspective of what a paladin should be. To me, a paladin strives to be what everyone should be, an avatar of 'order and good'. I think different paladin orders would approach this with different ideas. From what I gather with what you've said, your view of a paladin is one whose primary purpose is to burn out evil. Which I believe are both fair definitions, due to the constantly changing nature of paladins from each world to the next.


6e85c4  No.15567421

>>15567396

>Player finds Shelyn in the Pathfinder Core book, runs with her as his patron deity in Pathfinder

>Say "sure"

Typically, a DM okaying everything and not discussing with the players what they are playing or what would be a good match is a sign that the DM is going to end up being a huge cunt.

>Paladin wins initiative

That is fiction.

>Fall him on the spot for attacking first

>He goes "wtf?!"

>Tell him "Well according to the book there's a Paladin code of conduct now and you can't attack first!"

No, that's the DM being a cunt and trying to intentionally interpret something too strictly, because the DM hates what the player is trying to do, and is willing to make the entire group suffer because of it.

>"No no no, you need to look at page 142 of Inner Sea Gods (Seriously!) there's a second code of conduct for paladins of Shelyn now, so you fall!"

Codes are optional and this player clearly didn't select the code, because picking a diety as a paladin isn't even required or defined in the core rulebook. And what you just described is as bad or worse than DMs who houserule things but don't tell anyone during character creation, and then bring it up for the first time when it actually happens. That's a real cunty DM right there. I assume this is you making up an imaginary DM and not something you would do, because I doubt you would personally interpret these rules so strictly, but consider bashing someone's face in for backtalking to be a not-unlawful not-evil act.

Surely, if a session is more about hunting down goblins, a reasonable DM would discuss more preferable options with the player, and not waste everybody's time.


ef8084  No.15567493

>>15567420

>an avatar of 'order and good'.

okay, that seems fine and all, but there are lawful neutral gods with paladins as well, which means that by RAW those paladins can fall simply by following the actual wishes of the god that supposedly gives them power in the first place. This is stupid.

Paladins should simply be "any lawful" for their alignment. And just do the same choice of positive/negative channeling rule shit they do with clerics. This would also remove the need to have a whole separate prestige class that's literally just "it's a paladin but sworn to an evil god"


000000  No.15567504

>>15567396

On a serious note though I obviously wouldn't fall the paladin nor would I bother imposing that code. I'd just run it as flavor shit at most.

>>15567420

>That wholly depends on where they are, in what setting, and the current relation with local law. Though I agree that they typically are afforded that, I also have to note that instant executions are not the only form of justice. A paladin could easily determine that a stolen item should be returned, and the criminal, despite fighting back, should serve time in prison.

Agreed.

>I would consider brutalizing someone for being snarky to you both a non-lawful and a non-good act. I would go as far as to call that a chaotic act that could potentially be considered evil. I can't see how a paladin could rationalize that action in their head without agreeing that they lost control and did something they shouldn't have done.

Eh, when you put it like that it is sketchy, although in general I don't like being quick to fall someone unless they blatantly do something against the code, like murder, rape, theft, evil magic, etc. I'm not a fan of "paladins must be nice" but if you make a habit out of your paladin beating up people for mouthing off at you you're probably going to end up falling.

>Also, all of that is, of course, me viewing the perspective from a paladin of Shelyn. If a group of bandits surrendered to a paladin of Torag, he'd walk up, shake his hand to accept surrender, and crush his skull in before killing the rest of the bandits, and then he'd melt down all of their pig metal weapons and craft a masterwork plate out of it. A paladin of Abadar would demand their surrender, and put down any that refuse to comply on the spot. I feel like the codes give you direction in these situations, because everyone has a different view on what a paladin should be, even if just slightly.

That's great if you're taking it from a role-playing perspective, it just the "do or fall" imposition that's excessive from my point of view.

>From what I gather with what you've said, your view of a paladin is one whose primary purpose is to burn out evil.

Nah, from my point of view, both are valid paladin playstyles and I actually like the idea of paladin orders that are in conflict with each other over strong disagreements in their notions of righteousness. I could totally see, for instance, one paladin wanting to execute an idealist healer who adamantly heals anyone without discrimination for repeatedly and knowingly patching up murderous cultists as do what they do (making our healer an accessory and enabling factor to their crimes) and another paladin being all about protecting that benevolent healer and not falling either of them over that. I'm just not eager to impose a "this is the way you must paladin" thing on players, since I find it detracts from the game more than it adds. General paladin code of conduct is fine, and I prefer not to be heavy-handed about it.

>>15567421

>>Paladin wins initiative

>That is fiction.

Reactionary trait and a Noble Scion (of War) feat will do it. Noble Scion (War) makes initiative cha-based instead of dex-based, Reactionary adds +2 trait bonus to initiative. Also, your standard archer paladin can start with a massive dex score easy. Same goes for the rare dual-wield paladin. And Reactionary is just a popular trait in general, although paladins usually default to Fate's Favored and Magical Knack as their 2 traits.

>Codes are optional

Agreed. I keep the deities codes optional even if you run with the deity in question. I think the norm is to run those codes mostly as RP shit.

>and this player clearly didn't select the code, because picking a diety as a paladin isn't even required or defined in the core rulebook.

Yeah, that was my whole point with how twisted the "What, you worship Shelyn? You need to follow the code" imposition is.

>I assume this is you making up an imaginary DM and not something you would do

Nah, reckon the only reason I'd do shit like that is if it's the GM's turn to spoof awful GMs and be a ridiculous rules jackass. But that kinda requires a playgroup with that "I Wanna Be The Guy" sense of humor. PF is great for GM rules jackassery, though.


6e85c4  No.15567571

Do the vendors in the capital ever get new stock, or am I wasting my time checking them every time I return?

>>15567493

Well, to be fair, Abadar's paladins exist solely because Abadar claims that paladin orders benefit society as a whole. He wants them because of said 'order and good'.

I think paladins as champions is a great idea. At least the class concept, since I don't know if I'd call a lawful evil champion a paladin simply by virtue. I think "match your diety and then make it lawful" would be great for character diversity and let people bring more to the table. One could argue that it'd make them too similar to clerics, but the fact that they've released 2,000 archetypes and classes to poorly blur the line between cleric and paladin already defeated that.

>>15567504

>Noble Scion

I didn't know this existed until just now, I haven't read any Pathfinder books published since 2016 because I have no more groups.

>PF is great for GM rules jackassery

You know, I never played with a fun 'bad dm'. They were always unironically terrible. The group I played with the longest back in the day decided that fighters were too weak, so they house ruled quick draw as a free feat for everyone, and, while they were at it, eschew materials, and house ruled that eschew materials covered any material no matter the cost, and played exclusively low wealth campaigns where +1 weapons were something to strive for by level 10. Then I one-shot a bandit at as a level 1 fighter using a two-handed sword and they accused me of power gaming. Nobody complained about the guy who was playing a rakshasha lich though. He was the worst of the group. They all deserved what happened.


000000  No.15567588

>>15567571

>I didn't know this existed until just now, I haven't read any Pathfinder books published since 2016 because I have no more groups.

Pretty sure it's older than 2016.

>You know, I never played with a fun 'bad dm'. They were always unironically terrible.

Yeah, Pathfinder breeds in shitty players and shitty GMs. I feel like the better ones know to move on to greener pastures.


672403  No.15567647

I've played PF with people from full/v/ somewhere around half a year ago. They turned out to be from what they claim to be an 8/pol/ mumble. Long story short, GM insisted on having three-hour sessions once a week and after a while, he just stopped giving a shit and one day straight up quit mid-session. Another player tried to take over, but it was terrible, so I left after that.


6e85c4  No.15567648

File: c18e84ed1094f93⋯.png (449.37 KB, 376x656, 47:82, charming_smile.png)

Warning to anyone with the charm domain - the level 8 domain power doesn't function. It says it is level 0, and never has more than 0 charges.

>>15567100

Updating to 1.0.7 made magic vestment as functional as yours, in case anyone was having the same issue I was.


ef8084  No.15567662

Honestly this game is making want to go back and play Storm of Zehir instead. It least it had crafting and the overland map and town building shit were less annoying.


294231  No.15567682

>>15567662

come back in a month or two, this shit is basically still in beta.


a452b6  No.15567704

>>15560274

>let's make elves aliens

>let's take a common aspect of race X and give it race Y. How creative!!!

Retarded.

Makes you wonder even more how can elves breed with humans, if they developed on a different planet.

>>15565155

>I always hated the poz that comes related to Pathfinder, but at the table, we've always laughed at it and burned it out. But the game didn't let me lynch Rengongar, nor the nigger ranger of Torag who hits his dog.

>take into party

>send alone among vicious enemies

>let him get Deaths Door and truly die

>never ressurect

Where there's a will, there's a way!


33fbea  No.15568041

>>15567106

You can't dispose of the body. The dead orc nigger will take up space for the rest of your game.

oh how I miss BG's disintegrate spell.


ef8084  No.15568073

File: 7ca4156a7e7799f⋯.png (1.01 MB, 692x1024, 173:256, Fulllength.png)

>companion dies

>stuck in the middle of the stupid hunt event and after resting to prepare a raise dead spell I realize I'm out of diamonds.

>once the quest is over I rush to my capital and buy regents then rush back to hunting ground

>corpse is gone.

So how the fuck do I rez the person then? I can't seem to just click on the portrait or anything


33ee55  No.15568378

>>15568041

Disintegrate is in the game.


000000  No.15568815

>>15567100

It's supposed to be an enhancement bonus to your armor bonus to your AC, not a direct enhancement bonus to your AC (I'm not sure those even exist). Similarly Barkskin or Amulet of Natural Armor constitute an enhancement bonus to your natural armor bonus to your AC and a +4 shield constitutes a +4 enhancement bonus to your shield bonus to AC. So it's not strange at all to just count the total armor bonus, total shield bonus, and total natural armor bonus (there can be other bonuses to AC as well, like dex, dodge, deflection, luck, morale, sacred, profane, and even untyped). PF's convoluted that way, and this is still a relatively benign case of it.

>>15567647

Ooh, I remember that thread. If you wanted a decent game, you'd've had to play with /tg/, except 8/tg/ has virtually no pathfinder fans. I'm honestly not a fan either. Paizo's pozzed to shit and PF is kinda fail edition. You'd sooner find players for a AD&D 2E campaign on /tg/ I reckon.


f5fd0a  No.15569182

>1.07 patch = 12.8Gb

The game was 25Gb-ish so does that mean they had to redo half the fucking game?


f5fd0a  No.15569187

>>15566120

I found a descriptionless spell like that at level 9 too.


000000  No.15569201

>>15569182

Probably was a shitty patch system that couldn't diff properly and instead of sending a process to patch in the appropriate changes they decided to reupload all the files they changed in full. Giant waste of bandwidth but on the upside of things it's less likely to result in an unstable shitshow where a file was modified in unexpected ways.


f5fd0a  No.15569226

>>15566155

>allergic

Better to know thy enemy well anon, you don't want one sneaking up on you.

There's a half-fag orc and Amiri is a stronk but she's also dumb as a box of rocks so at least you don't get preachy shit out of her not seen anything else, yet.


6c71ff  No.15569239

>>15566627

Gee, what if…they MIGRATED to there, being formerly from parts of Asia?


f5fd0a  No.15569261

>>15569239

Goddamn barbarian hoors takin ur jerbs


fec73b  No.15569304

>>15569226

Amiri got deconstructed HARD later. About how stronks are just wannabe third-rate men who make things WORSE for all women, and how stronks have pathological need to prove themselves stronger than men at any cost for exactly what, and how their confronting attitudes burn bridges faster than armageddon, rotting any society she lives in and causes troubles for everyone around the stronks.


f5fd0a  No.15569376

>>15569304

I thought it might have shades of that given some of the dialogue options where you can poke at her ethos but meh, I'd rather she stay as is than spilling feefees all over me.


98008c  No.15569383

>>15569239

No shit sherlock.


f5fd0a  No.15569604

>>15565167

Tell that to my acid focused mage who likes acid and acidy things and regularly shoots a line of green horror that minces the absolute fuck out of everything in its path including his meatshield pals, casters become a general hazard to all life at about level 9.


084b59  No.15569642

>>15569604

Enjoy your 36 damage per round while each of my melee does more than that per hit, with multiple hits per round.


98008c  No.15569655

>>15569642

Which melee class is that


084b59  No.15569665

>>15569642

>>15569655

Sorry I should actually explain how I got that number

The vast majority of damage spells do CLd6+CL damage, with an upper limit depending on spell level. So at level 9 the most you can expect an "all purpose" spell to do is 9d6+9, then you divide the random damage by 2 to get the average. No matter what spell you use unless it's a "double damage vs specific creature type" spell you can't expect more than 36 damage per target per round at level 9.

Meanwhile, my rogue would have been doing 1d4+1(enhancement)+1d6(element)+5d8(sneak attack)+1d6(precise strikes)+~10(dex+pirhanna strike) per hit (dual wielding) at that level. So average 38 with a 15-20 crit range. My monk/rogue does similar but not quite as high.


f5fd0a  No.15569713

>>15569665

Rogue sneak attacks are ludicrous true.


084b59  No.15569718

>>15569665

While I was doing this, I noticed that the latest patch completely broke "Finesse Training". I no longer get the +9 damage bonus I'm supposed to from my dexterity. It was working before. Fortunately I'm far enough into the game and my build that losing 9 damage per hit doesn't really hurt me as I can still gib anything I see.

On the topic of wizards, the Sirocco spell is a great option if you want to kill things all by yourself. 4d6+CL damage per round is a little low, but it also inflicts knockdown and exhaustion and lasts for CL rounds (doing damage each round). You have to be careful though, because it will fuck up your party just as badly as the enemy. I just used a couple Siroccos and an Entangle to kill a whole swarm of level-draining specters before they could get to melee range and drain me.


084b59  No.15569836

>>15569718

Did some testing. The problem is dual wielding.

Currently Finesse Training only applies it's dex-based damage bonus if you single-wield (this is NOT intended behavior). The moment you wield 2 weapons, regardless of which weapons those are, you switch to strength-based damage instead. Note that unarmed strikes count as a single weapon, so my monk/rogue is unaffected.


f5fd0a  No.15569949

>>15569665

One on one yes but you're able to hit multiple people for that damage in one shot with acid spray


084b59  No.15569973

>>15569949

Including your teammates yes, but remember, that's PER ATTACK and I'm hitting at least two or three attacks per round.


f5fd0a  No.15570061

Does anyone else find that the Esc key just doesn't work sometimes?


084b59  No.15570172

>>15567066

>>15567083

>>15567289

Got me looking up the paladin codes for various other gods. I have to say I really like Sarenrae's code:

The paladins of the Dawnflower are fierce warriors, like their goddess. They provide hope to the weak and support to the righteous. Their tenets include:

>I will protect my allies with my life. They are my light and my strength, as I am their light and their strength. We rise together.

Gives justification for defending the party, no matter the threat.

>I will seek out and destroy the spawn of the Rough Beast. If I cannot defeat them, I will give my life trying. If my life would be wasted in the attempt, I will find allies. If any fall because of my inaction, their deaths lie upon my soul, and I will atone for each.

Not required to rush in to certain death, even against Seranrae's true foe

>I am fair to others. I expect nothing for myself but that which I need to survive.

"Expect nothing" isn't the same as "Accept nothing". This doesn't mean you can't accept quest rewards, you simply can't require them for yourself. Then again, strong equipment is necessary for a warrior to survive.

>The best battle is a battle I win. If I die, I can no longer fight. I will fight fairly when the fight is fair, and I will strike quickly and without mercy when it is not.

Allowed to use underhanded tactics whenever required (the fight is not "fair")

>I will redeem the ignorant with my words and my actions. If they will not turn toward the light, I will redeem them by the sword.

Not required to spare anyone who doesn't deserve it (won't turn towards the light).

>I will not abide evil, and will combat it with steel when words are not enough. I do not flinch from my faith, and do not fear embarrassment. My soul cannot be bought for all the stars in the sky.

CAN "combat evil" with words alone when they are enough. Doesn't have to murder anyone who pings CE

>I will show the less fortunate the light of the Dawnflower. I will live my life as her mortal blade, shining with the light of truth.

Vaguely standard "be good"

>Each day is another step toward perfection. I will not turn back into the dark.

Vaguely standard "be good"


8beadf  No.15570203

The best and worst thing about 3.5 is that people are still arguing about Paladins falling.


084b59  No.15570263

>>15570203

It's what makes paladins fun, to an extent. Ideally your DM should be on your side and not trying to make you fall, but at the same time be putting you into situations that require difficult choices anyway. It's a fun balancing act when done right. When the DM gives you an impossible choice and wants to fall you no matter what you pick, he deserves a kick in the nuts.

With regards to this game, the part I take most issue with is a paladin of Shelyn, god of art and beauty, destroy what he himself considers to be a divine work of beauty and art, ie Valerie's face.


5eb857  No.15570362

>>15567289

>Don't be an idiot. You have to give proper incentives, not just "do it my way or you fall" shit.

The incentive is that you were invulnerable to virtually everything at level 1. Rolling a Paladin came with so many fucking benefits in AD&D. Of course, 3rd edition ruined that, but 3rd edition ruined a lot of things so that's nothing new.

>good roleplaying and storycrafting isn't enough of an incentive on its own

Check out this complete and utter casual. Maybe an SRPG is more your speed.


5eb857  No.15570381

>>15570172

>"Expect nothing" isn't the same as "Accept nothing". This doesn't mean you can't accept quest rewards, you simply can't require them for yourself. Then again, strong equipment is necessary for a warrior to survive.

Traditionally, Paladins are indeed "supposed" to turn down quest rewards, but not necessarily all of them. My personal policy is that if you forgo quest rewards, that earns you brownie points with your god or the local people. On the other hand, Paladins can use Holy Avengers.


084b59  No.15570407

>>15570381

I know it's "traditional". I think if you are going to enforce a code then you should forget everything outside of that code. Even really flagrantly evil shit is fine if it can be justified by the code rather than simply allowed by omission, that's the trade you get for picking a preset set of rules.


5eb857  No.15570441

>>15570407

>Even really flagrantly evil shit is fine if it can be justified by the code

Absolutely. In fact that is often the entire point of a code, to force paladins (or anyone bound by a code) to do things they may not want to do to further the cause. That would make you Lawful Evil instead of Lawful Good, though. Good/Evil describes intent and Lawful/Chaotic usually describes execution. However, genociding a bunch of orc children can indeed be justified as a Lawful Good action. It might torment a paladin a bit, but it's the intent that matters the most, and all he has to do to be Lawful is follow the code.


084b59  No.15571500

File: 12cc8fe0a8d66d8⋯.jpg (345.7 KB, 406x1995, 58:285, thundering claw of the bea….jpg)

Well I finally found a good scimitar, and it's absolutely perfect for my Royal Huntsmaster too (pet/melee class). Location: Giggling hill (SW most point on the map) inside a fey portal.


084b59  No.15571543

>>15570441

Do you consider strictly adhering to a code to the exclusion of all other "laws" to be Lawful?


1dd9e5  No.15571675

>>15569836

is it just the feat that's busted or also the agile property on weapons?


084b59  No.15571822

>>15571675

I haven't tested personally, but I've heard that Agile weapons work fine. It's not even a feat, Finesse Training is a class feature rogues get at level 3, I'm pretty sure the feat that you can buy for certain weapons works fine too.


084b59  No.15572170

>>15557674

I just want to point out that Hand crossbows DO exist. Probably everything mentioned in there exists somewhere. Fact is I've only seen ONE hand crossbow (+1) so far, so they are rare as fuck, but they do exist.


000000  No.15572577

>>15569604

Not gonna lie, that build sounds like shit.

>>15569718

Yeah that's not supposed to happen. Rogues have finesse training precisely to support their dex-heavy dualwield setup. It's not supposed to deactivate if you equip a second weapon like the feats do.

>>15570362

>>good roleplaying and storycrafting isn't enough of an incentive on its own

>Check out this complete and utter casual. Maybe an SRPG is more your speed.

You sound like the the kind of shit GM who would blame his players if they don't RP enough when he doesn't make the storyworld engaging and reactive enough. Having a thought-out questline isn't enough for that.

>>15570203

Inner Sea Gods came up with the brilliant idea of a second code of conduct for paladins of specific deities, causing a new argument. Pathfinder Society (Pathfinder Organized Play) blatantly considers that shit to be fluff (flavor text) though, not crunch (rules text). And honestly the new codes of conduct do seem to have been designed as fluff, since they're heavily RP-oriented and many would be downright unplayable if you impose them as ironclad rules, plus they would make paladins an even more annoying class to have in the party (and paladins are already considered the worst class to have in a party precisely because of CoC shit). A number of people here consider deity CoCs to be crunch though, which caused an argument on how horribly disastrous enforcing deity CoCs would be. Generally the standard is that if a player is playing as a paladin of a specific deity, he'd have to voluntarily choose to take the deity-specific CoC as binding rules in order for them to be treated that way. Otherwise he's just a regular paladin dedicated to a deity. (Just to put this in context, there are tons of deities in PF without any paladin CoC at all that are nevertheless valid picks for paladins.)

>>15570407

>>15570441

You guys are both on drugs. Paladins are required to be lawful and good and are specifically enjoined by their code of conduct from committing evil acts and required to respect legitimate authority, behave with honor, and avoid supporting chaotic ends. You're trying to argue that a code of conduct takes the paladin off of the alignment axis altogether or shit. The idea that a code of conduct liberates a paladin to commit "flagrantly evil shit" is dumb as fuck as it directly contradicts the coc which explicitly falls a paladin if they ever willingly commit an evil act.

Typically orcs are an evil-by-default and highly destructive race, and a paladin isn't required to redeem everyone he meets from the path of evil, not even if they're little kids. Killing orc babies wouldn't make him fall since he is just purging evil.


1dd9e5  No.15572766

>>15572577

>Not gonna lie, that build sounds like shit.

It wouldn't be completely terrible assuming they went arcane trickster so they could at least be doing sneak attacks with those acid spells.


42cac6  No.15573647

What's the least buggy version so far and where is a link for it?


f5fd0a  No.15573719

File: 13baecdf398453e⋯.jpg (52.94 KB, 458x258, 229:129, getintheoverheadcompartmen….jpg)

Hope there's a sexual harassment panda too


f5fd0a  No.15573747

>>15572577

>Not gonna lie, that build sounds like shit.

Think what you like, my biohazard/summoner lad just finished off the boss of chapter 3 after his supposedly hard mates copped out


f5fd0a  No.15573751

It'd be nice if the traders got some new gear in now and again instead of trying to sell me back the shit I sold them.


f5fd0a  No.15574039

Whoever thought having a yappy dog perpetually barking in the echo chamber of a throne room wants their toes hammering.


98008c  No.15574153

>>15574039

The fucking panda and dog getting to you? CAn't you put them back into the chest.

>>15573751

Supposedly new stock everytime the capital upgrades but ive seen a hammer and thats it.


084b59  No.15574275

>>15572766

Good point, AoE sneak attacks sound like a pretty strong way to be a Blaster.


084b59  No.15574287

>>15574153

> everytime the capital upgrades

You mean when you advance from village to town to city? That's possible, especially since I seem to have forgotten what's needed to trigger the second advancement tier and I don't remember what the merchant had before the first.

For the most part if you want to buy some neat stuff you have to wait until the pitax chapter. The tournament has I think 4 vendors with high-end shit (prices in hundreds of thousands) and I'll bet the city of Pitax itself has even more, if you can actually make it past the bugs and into the city.


084b59  No.15574318

I'm thinking of restarting. My Regent and High Priest both bugged at some point 2 chapters ago where they "need to talk" but never actually show up when I go to the throne room, so I can no longer advance either of those stats. I missed Nok Nok's questline, which I've heard leads to two amazing kukri's that my not-evil rogue could make use of. Ekun's quest bugged in the same way as my Regent and failed. My throne room is full of bugged out visitors that won't leave. And I need to go back to a save near the beginning of yesterday just so that Pitax doesn't totally fuck my kingdom over, even assuming that the Pitax chapter works (which it doesn't). Also I want to redo the undead elf's quest for personal reasons.

BUT I don't want to restart until rogue finesse training is working again, and I'd also like them to fix some of the Pitax chapter first as well, so I guess I should just take a break for a bit.


ea13c9  No.15574355

>>15564904

>just place the fireball so the edge almost touches your front line tank

>kill all mobs in a single blow

Dude this is like the most basic thing ever.


f5fd0a  No.15574358

>>15574153

Not the companion pokemonz, it's the dog in the doorway that pisses me off with its perpetual yapyapyap on a loop, there's one just like it nextdoor to me IRL and I'd punt that fucker under a steamroller with a smile on my face. Just looked it up seems other people are bitching about it too.

>capital upgrades

Ah good I'm getting sick of my dirt roads no progress shithole.


98008c  No.15574417

>>15574358

>Ah good I'm getting sick of my dirt roads no progress shithole.

Theres a bug so you never see these visual upgrades. As for the dog yeah that shit is annoying

>>15574287

I was at city before i restarted there were some blunt weapons and that was it.


f5fd0a  No.15574433

File: 15a93eb063c93be⋯.jpg (24.56 KB, 194x276, 97:138, blub.jpg)

>>15574417

>Theres a bug

There's more fucking bugs than there is missions at this rate.


084b59  No.15574454

>>15574355

>Watch in horror as your entire melee line runs forward while the fireball is casting, because all the front line enemies died.

>Hit nothing but your own guys


98008c  No.15574459

>>15574433

thats the true story of this game. Apparently some one a forum was looking at steam achievements and laughing that no one actually managed to finish the game yet. Youtube says otherwise but that was funny.

https://steamcommunity.com/stats/640820/achievements


d4cd70  No.15574462

>>15574433

Than there are*


98008c  No.15574468

>>15574355

easier said than done, you can't randomly hit the middle of the ground if a enemy is in the circle the game forces you to choose the enemy.


ea13c9  No.15574533

>>15574468

I have been doing it since level 3 no problem (the trick is to start casting as soon as you aggro them), but if it causes you trouble just extend your front with your secondary tank.


ea13c9  No.15574538

>>15574454

>not disabling AI

Sorry, I thought I was talking to sensible people.


ea13c9  No.15574545

>>15574468

Oh, also use control + click to place the AoE precisely.


98008c  No.15574551

>>15574545

ill try that but i lost fireball and im working on leveling up again


ea13c9  No.15574570

>>15574551

Save before leveling in case it doesn't suit your playstyle afterall. I mean, maybe I am a natural or something and it is normally difficult, dunno.


f5fd0a  No.15574592

If you hit Spacebar in the same instant that you hit a random encounter on the map it skips it, the prompt to fight or evade still comes up but your gang just keeps going. Only managed it by accident just now, will see if I can get a repeat.


8beadf  No.15574746

>>15574592

I've seen pausing at the right time mess with other things as well. Pretty sure Amiri drank 5 potions she didn't need because I paused just as she drank one.


5eb857  No.15574801

>>15571543

Of course. Otherwise a Lawful Good paladin could never be lawful because he isn't following the code of some evil god.

>>15572577

>You sound like the the kind of shit GM who would blame his players if they don't RP enough when he doesn't make the storyworld engaging and reactive enough. Having a thought-out questline isn't enough for that.

No, usually the best games I play are very heavy on GM effort. However, if you pick paladin, I expect you to put forth some effort yourself. Clearly, you're averse to that.


f5fd0a  No.15574902

>>15574592

>tab away from my throne room in chest menu

>come back 10 mins later

>cacophony of twee animal noises assaults my ears

All the sounds back up and unleash at once so you don't miss a single squawk.


f5fd0a  No.15575111

1.07 fixed Rill and Spill at least.

The Cypress Queen paraphernalia set may be 'bugged' there's a 5th piece which after digging into json files is called 'The Fey Flower' (not the root piece it seems) and that doesn't seem to appear anywhere.


f5fd0a  No.15575301

>>15574902

[Hilarious comment about compressed audio here]


8beadf  No.15576078

File: 2c1019c1d4fb8ab⋯.gif (996.39 KB, 500x300, 5:3, 2c1019c1d4fb8ab695ba65fb64….gif)

Page 11, just shy of 400 replies. Who's making the next one?


14a0f1  No.15576096

>>15576078

I'll make the next thread but didn't we have to wait until page 12 or 13?


f89158  No.15576892

I haven’t gone back to this game in 3 days, partly because of the bugs partly because csrin is down so I can’t update patch. Should have used gog


8beadf  No.15576950

File: dd66be18b906c2b⋯.jpg (34.49 KB, 250x250, 1:1, dd66be18b906c2b785a9dbe052….jpg)

>Stag Lord can only hit me on a crit

>when he does, he hits for 60 damage

this is my nightmare


14a0f1  No.15578310

I won't be able to make the next thread, can someone else make it?


084b59  No.15579077

>>15576892

I'm giving up on it until they fix Finesse training and at least something shows up in the notes about the Pitax chapter. When I do though I plan to start over.


98008c  No.15579845

>>15579077

Does 1.08 fix it? or is it still bugged


6e85c4  No.15580683

>>15579845

>>15579077

From what I've read, 1.08 does not fix it.




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