Ronda Rousey in Mortal Kombat 11 is a disappointing and problematic decision by NRS (Check Staff Posts)

[Lyng]

Are there any data to support these claims of trans athletes having an advantage?

I would like to know as I have no idea about this subject.

No but there are scientific studies that prove the opposite.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...nsitions-alter-athletic-performance-including

 

[Imran]

Maybe MMA is real stupid if it can be so massively upset this easily.

 

[Ketkat]

He gave him a platform to talk on, that's all. Having someone on the show doesn't mean he agrees with them, he regularly debates guests in a formal non-combative way. He doesn't bring on people just for thrill of railroading them. Which is why high profile guests go on the show. Also I think he had him on prior to him really going unhindge. I didn't listen to that episode.

He's never said anything trans-phobic, he's DISCUSSED transgender in combat sports and in certain examples when stories are brought up about parents transitioning their kids at VERY young ages. Topics that should be able to be discussed without being applied a label.

Looking through some of his recent guests, he had Gad Saad on there who compared non-binary identities to a slippery slope of accepting transracialism, and how wanting to respect their identities is comparable to fatphobia and that it's a tyranny to want people to accept these identities. Gad Saad opposed Bill C-16 in Canada.

He has Jordan Peterson on there as well who has been a very vocal transphobe and who whipped up fearmongering about Bill C-16 and how people were going to be arrested if they didn't get pronouns correct. He has gone on record saying he won't respect a trans person's pronouns if he doesn't like the person, which shows that he doesn't see our identities as valid but something that he's rewarding us with by acknowledging. Jordan Peterson in general has said a lot of really shitty things about women and minorities, denying that rapes have happened as well as saying that teaching that gender identity exists to children is indoctrination.

To be clear, Bill C-16 added gender identity to the list of things that you can't discriminate against someone for.

He has had Ben Shapiro on his channel as well who is blatantly transphobic and does not believe that trans women are women. He misgenders trans people that he comes across and says that trans people are delusional.

He has had Steven Crowder as well who has also spread a lot of falsehoods and hate towards the trans community.

I could keep going, but the point of this here is that you seem to be under the impression that he hasn't had anyone transphobic on his podcast in the past 5 years that you've been watching it. You have people who blatantly dismiss our identities, insult us and demean us, and you don't see that as transphobic despite them directly talking about trans issues on his show. Again, why do you feel that Joe Rogan knows best about trans issues when he doesn't have the tools or the knowledge to challenge these people when an average viewer like you can't even recognize that what his guests are saying are an issue?

 

[Nome]

Maybe MMA is real stupid if it can be so massively upset this easily.

Not sure what you mean by this.
These are people who consent to potentially getting their faces smashed and joints broken.
There are an enormous amount of rules, pre-fight controls, and sanctioning bodies to keep fighters safe in a violent environment.

The people involved need to do their due diligence, but these are absolutely questions worth asking.

 

[Kthulhu]

Painting with an awfully broad brush. If people have opinions on a subject that don't agree with your own doesn't make them this or that. It makes them open to conversation. He's routinely discussed how opinions change over years and his own have as well. If you're going to take everything out of context and live in a silo that's your decision, but that's also what's wrong with this current climate is that people can't have a conversations without being labeled as this or that.

Just because someone said something years ago does not mean that represents their current personality today. You should believe 20% of what you see on the internet and listen instead. Listening and reading are completely different and there is A LOT lost in context when something is presented in quotes instead of what they actually meant.

I've listened to the show for 5+ years, never a transphobic person on there that I'm aware of, and yes, I'd be more inclined to listen to people with experience in the sport on the subject than a barstool commentator with no experience.

You are the one in the silo then. I don't even listen to his podcast and I know he's had multiple famous transphobic people on his podcast.


Pretty much everyone in that photo is a total piece of shit. Why should I trust what a man who clearly has no issue in defending a minority says about that group and gladly locks arms with the people that hate them?

 

[NDWest14]

Looking through some of his recent guests, he had Gad Saad on there who compared non-binary identities to a slippery slope of accepting transracialism, and how wanting to respect their identities is comparable to fatphobia and that it's a tyranny to want people to accept these identities. Gad Saad opposed Bill C-16 in Canada.

He has Jordan Peterson on there as well who has been a very vocal transphobe and who whipped up fearmongering about Bill C-16 and how people were going to be arrested if they didn't get pronouns correct. He has gone on record saying he won't respect a trans person's pronouns if he doesn't like the person, which shows that he doesn't see our identities as valid but something that he's rewarding us with by acknowledging. Jordan Peterson in general has said a lot of really shitty things about women and minorities, denying that rapes have happened as well as saying that teaching that gender identity exists to children is indoctrination.

To be clear, Bill C-16 added gender identity to the list of things that you can't discriminate against someone for.

He has had Ben Shapiro on his channel as well who is blatantly transphobic and does not believe that trans women are women. He misgenders trans people that he comes across and says that trans people are delusional.

He has had Steven Crowder as well who has also spread a lot of falsehoods and hate towards the trans community.

I could keep going, but the point of this here is that you seem to be under the impression that he hasn't had anyone transphobic on his podcast in the past 5 years that you've been watching it. You have people who blatantly dismiss our identities, insult us and demean us, and you don't see that as transphobic despite them directly talking about trans issues on his show. Again, why do you feel that Joe Rogan knows best about trans issues when he doesn't have the tools or the knowledge to challenge these people when an average viewer like you can't even recognize that what his guests are saying are an issue?

My issue stems from the fact that these people are discussing a very new topic and are being quickly labeled if they oppose the insanely complicated titles in a postmodern world. There's a learning curve and those in the know (you seem to be in the know) are hyper critical of anyone talking about it.

People are allowed to talk, you don't have to like it, but I wouldn't associate guests with the host. They aren't always a reflection of that person, he sees the potential for an interesting conversation with people who are out there discussing interesting things and goes for it.

It can't be impossible for people to just talk. If they sound like an ass that will be obvious to everyone. Whens the last time Milo has been in the news? He's seemingly dug and retreated into his own grave. Shitty people go away, but jesus people should be allowed to talk.

 

[NinjaTrouiLLe]

No but there are scientific studies that prove the opposite.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...nsitions-alter-athletic-performance-including

This is a pretty complex question and very hard to measure. Even the study understood it was pretty hard to find samples big enough. Plus performance is not only driven by testosterone rates and a lot can happen, especially during a 5x5 minutes combat.

I don't think a study like this proves or disproves anything, we would need to get a array of different studies.

One sure thing though, putting a man against a woman in a cage is not a thing because the result is averagely always the same. But a transgender is a different story, between hormone rates, muscle mass drop, she cannot be considered as the same male version of herself for sure.

 

[Winterreise]

Wasn't aware that she was, in addition to being a shitty person, physically abusive to an ex-boyfriend (and wrote about it, what the fuck?). That's on a different, even worse level than saying awful things - she should have been criminally charged. Get her out of the game.

 

[Nome]

This is a pretty complex question and very hard to measure. Even the study understood it was pretty hard to find samples big enough. Plus performance is not only driven by testosterone rates and a lot can happen, especially during a 5x5 minutes combat.

I don't think a study like this proves or disproves anything, we would need to get a array of different studies.

One sure thing though, putting a man against a woman in a cage is not a thing because the result is averagely always the same. But a transgender is a different story, between hormone rates, muscle mass drop, she cannot be considered as the same male version of herself for sure.

Indeed. Also, combat sports are much more complex than endurance or performance sports.
Technique, endurance, strength, and speed all matter, which muddy the waters.

You may get different results if you performed a similar analysis on transgender powerlifters, for example.

 

[Ketkat]

My issue stems from the fact that these people are discussing a very new topic and are being quickly labeled if they oppose the insanely complicated titles in a postmodern world. There's a learning curve and those in the know (you seem to be in the know) are hyper critical of anyone talking about it.

People are allowed to talk, you don't have to like it, but I wouldn't associate guests with the host. They aren't always a reflection of that person, he sees the potential for an interesting conversation with people who are out there discussing interesting things and goes for it.

It can't be impossible for people to just talk. If they sound like an ass that will be obvious to everyone. Whens the last time Milo has been in the news? He's seemingly dug and retreated into his own grave. Shitty people go away, but jesus people should be allowed to talk.

If he's not accurately challenging people who are transphobic and damaging to trans people, then you don't seem to understand the impact that this is actually having. These aren't ignorant people, the people I listed are all people who have actively been against trans rights, especially someone like Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro.

You were not able to recognize the views of someone like Ben Shapiro as transphobic while he's discussing trans related issues on this show. That is a disservice to not only you as a viewer, because it normalizes these views to you, but also to anyone who is affected by the rhetoric that becomes normalized. Things aren't all peachy in the world where discussing whether or not trans identities are valid, or whether we're just making this all up and nothing will ever change has no impact on people.

Creating unsupportive environments or attacking trans people for our identities has direct negative impacts that lead to higher rates of both depression and suicidal ideation.

Researchers interviewed transgender youths ages 15 to 21 and asked whether young people could use their chosen name at school, home, work and with friends. Compared with peers who could not use their chosen name in any context, young people who could use their name in all four areas experienced 71 percent fewer symptoms of severe depression, a 34 percent decrease in reported thoughts of suicide and a 65 percent decrease in suicidal attempts.


Earlier research by Russell found that transgender youths report having suicidal thoughts at nearly twice the rate of their peers, with about 1 out of 3 transgender youths reporting considering suicide. In the new study, having even one context in which a chosen name could be used was associated with a 29 percent decrease in suicidal thoughts. The researchers controlled for personal characteristics and social support.

https://news.utexas.edu/2018/03/30/name-use-matters-for-transgender-youths-mental-health/

It is imperative that people understand just how important these conversations are and the level of impact that they can have. Words have consequences and not just for the person who says them.

 

[Bass2448]

This is a pretty complex question and very hard to measure. Even the study understood it was pretty hard to find samples big enough. Plus performance is not only driven by testosterone rates and a lot can happen, especially during a 5x5 minutes combat.

I don't think a study like this proves or disproves anything, we would need to get a array of different studies.

One sure thing though, putting a man against a woman in a cage is not a thing because the result is averagely always the same. But a transgender is a different story, between hormone rates, muscle mass drop, she cannot be considered as the same male version of herself for sure.

This person gets it. Its simply too early to make any conclusion either which way. Until then, We need brave people to step up and be apart of the research. The transgenders competing should be celebrated, not casted out. They are torchbearers.

 

[chezzymann]

This is a pretty complex question and very hard to measure. Even the study understood it was pretty hard to find samples big enough. Plus performance is not only driven by testosterone rates and a lot can happen, especially during a 5x5 minutes combat.

I don't think a study like this proves or disproves anything, we would need to get a array of different studies.

One sure thing though, putting a man against a woman in a cage is not a thing because the result is averagely always the same. But a transgender is a different story, between hormone rates, muscle mass drop, she cannot be considered as the same male version of herself for sure.

But at the same time, we shouldn't just assume it takes away most of their advantages because a couple studies suggest it. Just like we shouldnt assume they still have most their advantages cause other studies suggest it. The science just isnt there yet, and latching onto an article to support whatever your opinion is on this issue is just arguing in bad faith in my opinion. Its strange seeing people saying the science is decided, hormone therapy takes away most advantages, and anyone who says something else is banned.

 

[Blindy]

Wasn't Chun Li kicking ass before Sonya? Curious about why Rousey said that.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Simply put, there's as many articles about advantage as there are about even playing field. It's a discussion.

My only issue with this entire thread is the labels being tossed around at anyone debating the hyper progressive take on it. It's a VERY new discussion and I don't personally think enough studies have been done to conclude anything at this time. Nor do I feel that this is a welcome environment to express anything that could be deemed conflicting so I actually prefer leaving this thread and discussing games instead.

There are plenty of articles about "advantages" that transgender athletes have in competitive sports, but like I explained earlier, there isn't science to back up any of these claims of supposed advantages. Op-ed punditry isn't science. Joe Rogan is not a scientist. All this commentating about what might happen if transgender and cisgender athletes compete together is neither based in actual reality or supported by studies that have been done on this. One of the major pillars of transphobia is being afraid of what will happen if you just let trans people do things. If you let them teach your kids, if you let them use the bathroom they want to use, if you let them play sports, etc. It isn't supported by research or history. It's supported by misplaced fear.

I can understand somebody having a curiosity about how transgender and cisgender athletes compare. This is a completely reasonable conversation starter. But that's not how most people start this conversation. They start this conversation from the assumed position of exclusion and proceed to rationalize why trans people shouldn't be allowed to compete with their gender. There are three published scientific journals in the post I linked above. All of them say there is no evidence that transitioned athletes retain advantageous physiology to their cisgender counterparts. This is not the "hyper progressive" position, this is the scientific one.


But what is especially frustrating about this is that Ronda Rousey is not transphobic just because she said transgender women shouldn't be allowed to compete with women. She's transphobic for saying shit like "you can't rewind if you go through puberty as a man" and "she can chop her pecker off" and for defending another athlete who called a trans woman a "lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freak." She has taken indefensible positions that are dehumanizing and intolerant. So it would probably be best if people interested in learning didn't do so from the starting point of what someone like Ronda Rousey says. You should not be getting your perspective on transgender athletics from her.

Furthermore, regarding your fear of being called transphobic: fear of being labeled as something you are not is what trans people endure every single day and are enduring in this thread. Perhaps you can use this perspective to understand why the way you approach this discussion is so important.

 

[litebrite]

Wasn't Chun Li kicking ass before Sonya? Curious about why Rousey said that.

Might've been she was exposed to Mortal Kombat first.. And I assume an American White woman might identify more with a kick ass American White woman than a kick ass Chinese martial artist woman and the stereotype that all Asians supposedly know martial arts. It's like a White person that might've not started rapping until they saw Eminem do it.

 

[Blueblur]

Defending Joe Rogan in 2019. I can’t help but laugh at that.

 

[BronsonLee]

Wasn't Chun Li kicking ass before Sonya? Curious about why Rousey said that.

Because she's not playing Chun-Li and not getting paid to market/promote Street Fighter

 

[litebrite]

Because she's not playing Chun-Li and not getting paid to market/promote Street Fighter

Yeah, and this too. lol

 

[Tabaxi]

There are concerns to be had given how far someone is in their transition and various other factors. But Ronda's entire "chop off his pecker" response doesn't exactly leave a lot of nuance in what she was saying.

But, even if you cast aside the transphobia and hitting her former boyfriend. There's still the fact she defends her own husband's past of domestic abuse. Not to mention her whole "Do Nothing Bitches" catchphrase and generally being a huge asshole to other women during her time in UFC until she got beat up.

 

[kylecoley182]

Ronda is a great champion

 

[Jebusman]

People are allowed to talk, you don't have to like it, but I wouldn't associate guests with the host. They aren't always a reflection of that person, he sees the potential for an interesting conversation with people who are out there discussing interesting things and goes for it.

If I tell you straight up that I advocate for a pure white race and I think all black people should be put to death, and you, knowing this ahead of time, still invite me on your podcast so that I'm able to tell everyone this publicly, it doesn't fucking matter if you "disagree" with my stance.

You still gave me the opportunity to spread my hateful message in the hopes that some of your listeners feel the same, feel emboldened and empowered by hearing someone with similar views, and potentially act on their feelings thinking they will be safe/in good company.

It doesn't matter how much you think you "own" me on that podcast with facts and knowledge, how much of a fool you think you've made me look like, I've accomplished my mission. My mission was simply to have my hate heard. And you gave me a platform to shout it out to the world.

That's what Joe Rogan accomplishes with his podcast every time he has a guest on like this. Even more so because of him rarely ever pushing back on these kinds of sentiments.

 

[dawgparty]

is this really a line from the game?

thats fucking disgusting.

Wow, some people are dumb as hell.

 

[litebrite]

There are concerns to be had given how far someone is in their transition and various other factors. But Ronda's entire "chop off his pecker" response doesn't exactly leave a lot of nuance in what she was saying.

But, even if you cast aside the transphobia and hitting her former boyfriend. There's still the fact she defends her own husband's past of domestic abuse. Not to mention her whole "Do Nothing Bitches" catchphrase and generally being a huge asshole to other women during her time in UFC until she got beat up.

Men talk shit to other men in combat sports all the time. I actully think that was more a sexist issue that she was "unladylike".

If I tell you straight up that I advocate for a pure white race and I think all black people should be put to death, and you, knowing this ahead of time, still invite me on your podcast so that I'm able to tell everyone this publicly, it doesn't fucking matter if you "disagree" with my stance.

You still gave me the opportunity to spread my hateful message in the hopes that some of your listeners feel the same, feel emboldened and empowered by hearing someone with similar views, and potentially act on their feelings thinking they will be safe/in good company.

It doesn't matter how much you think you "own" me on that podcast with facts and knowledge, how much of a fool you think you've made me look like, I've accomplished my mission. My mission was simply to have my hate heard. And you gave me a platform to shout it out to the world.

That's what Joe Rogan accomplishes with his podcast every time he has a guest on like this. Even more so because of him rarely ever pushing back on these kinds of sentiments.

Yep, that's the conclusion Oprah came to after interviewing a bunch of skinheads on her program in 1988

 

[Tetrinski]

There are way more people who see her name as having celebrity value than there are who care about or even know all the terrible shit she has said and believes.

Exactly. I pay zero attention to celebs rumours and who is or isn't a terrible person, and up until two minutes ago, when I saw this thread, I'd have thought "Oh, cool! She is perfect for the part of Sonya Blade!" because I barely know anything about her.

 

[Gestault]

Yep, that's the conclusion Oprah came to after interviewing a bunch of skinheads on her program in 1988

Honestly, thank you for sharing this. This is wisdom and good character winning out over sensationalism.

 

[Phantom]

I absolutely hate this. I think games shouldn't break the 4th wall to include real life fighters. That's just dumb. Spawn, Link and other fictional characters I can understand-even though I don't particularly love the idea. But Ronda? Come on. That's just plain stupid.

 

[litebrite]

I absolutely hate this. I think games shouldn't break the 4th wall to include real life fighters. That's just dumb. Spawn, Link and other fictional characters I can understand-even though I don't particularly love the idea. But Ronda? Come on. That's just plain stupid.

You're mistaken. Ronda Rousey is merely voicing the character of Sonya Blade.

 

[Water]

The link in the OP blatantly points out what he is claiming is false.

That trans people undergoing hormonal treatments have lower bone density / muscle growth therefore are at a disadvantage vs females? Is this a proven fact, or just threorosed based on some individual studies?

Either way - the article does’t “prove” it just puts the statement out there. I’d be happy to learn more about this if it’s the case, and I’m sure the original poster of that would of as well. Even if he’s wrong, I don’t think he was being transphobic.

There’s been plenty of discussions on ResetEra about this topic. I think it’s something worth talking about and informing people about if it’s easily proven false.

 

[Francesco]

This is so much trash.
Did they release a trailer with her?

 

[BronsonLee]

This is so much trash.
Did they release a trailer with her?

They did a full reveal trailer for her as Sonya and had her show up at the event, yeah

 

[Francesco]

They did a full reveal trailer for her as Sonya and had her show up at the event, yeah

I had no idea there was gonna be an event.
Very interesting problem.

Would this be the first semi/pro-gamergate AAA game (you know what I mean), with or without the intentions of the designers?

 

[Phantom]

You're mistaken. Ronda Rousey is merely voicing the character of Sonya Blade.

Well I feel dumb. Teaches me for skimming a thread. Still a problematic choice in light of who she is, but nowhere near as bad as I thought.

 

[ZeoVGM]

That trans people undergoing hormonal treatments have lower bone density / muscle growth therefore are at a disadvantage vs females? Is this a proven fact, or just threorosed based on some individual studies?

It's in the freaking article.

Despite the fighter’s claims, researchers have been quick to point out that a trans woman would actually be at a significant disadvantage in terms of bone strength and muscle density, as a result of hormone treatments.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I had no idea there was gonna be an event.
Very interesting problem.

Would this be the first semi/pro-gamergate AAA game (you know what I mean), with or without the intentions of the designers?

This isn't a GamerGate thing at all. It's just about one problematic idiot (Ronda).

The GamerGate crowd (or what is left of that dead "movement") are actually complaining that NRS has gone "SJW" because they decided to cover up the women more than the ridiculousness of MK9.

 

[Icemonk191]

Man some of y'all will throw yourself on to the fire to defend big gaming corporations but when we trans folks ask you to back us up suddenly it's all "Well..." And "I don't know..."

 

[Joey T]

I had no idea there was gonna be an event.
Very interesting problem.

Would this be the first semi/pro-gamergate AAA game (you know what I mean), with or without the intentions of the designers?

I don't know what you mean.

 

[Francesco]

This isn't a GamerGate thing at all. It's just about one problematic idiot (Ronda).

The GamerGate crowd (or what is left of that dead "movement") are actually complaining that NRS has gone "SJW" because they decided to cover up the women more than the ridiculousness of MK9.

I don't know what you mean.

I assumed that crowd would be happy given some of the woman’s ideas.

 

[KillLaCam]

It wont

I know :(

 

[LiK]

Because she's not playing Chun-Li and not getting paid to market/promote Street Fighter

Also Chun Li is from a competing franchise. Would be hilarious if she actually mentioned Chun at the event.

 

[replicantUK]

I never knew any of this stuff about her and I doubt the average consumer does either.

Agreed. Never heard of her before last night. I take it she is in wresting or something?

 

[Razor Mom]

Ronda is a great champion

What?

 

[olag]

Typical high level dinner party casting I suppose. Know the right people and you get the part. Never mind your abhorrent views or evident lack of voice acting talent.

Christ I thought the games industry grew out of its celebrity voice acting phase after Dinkledge's "they are from the moon" piss poor performance.

 

[lucas_hood]

On top of everything else she’s a fucking terrible actress, voice or otherwise.

this is mortal kombat, dude. Are you expecting Daniel Day Lewis ?

 

[olag]

this is mortal kombat, dude. Are you expecting Daniel Day Lewis ?

Goofy writing aside, MKX had some really good voice acting given the pedigree of voice actors behind it.This is definitely a noticeable downgrade.

Rhonda's delivery in the trailer was just bad, and not even not even in a "its so bad that its good" sort of way.

 

[TheOnionPrince]

this is mortal kombat, dude. Are you expecting Daniel Day Lewis ?

A professional voice actor would cost less than this stunt casting.

 

[newmoneytrash]

The stuff about her is so well known at this point that I refuse to believe that this is just a case of ignorance. By hiring Rousey in 2019 you're actively saying that we know she believes in these things, but our potential gain outweighs the bad

It's an *awful* decision by NRS with absolutely no defence

 

[StealthieOne]

Again, she said it and was on the cover of BOXING magazine. This is before the whole Conner fight. Was it a giant PR at the time yes. But I wouldn't doubt Rousey, who was undefeated during that time and on top of that had a giant ego was most likely down to do it. But again, all assumptions. Like the person, I quoted said. Is the fact she said it. She was okay to say she would fight a male athlete but not a trans-woman.

We'll agree to disagree... There's a huge difference between fighting a man(trans) and using pr to act like she'd be willing to fight a man... One of which would never ever take that fight. I can say I'll beat mike tysons ass... Right up until mike says let's fight. Lol

As there been any trans fights vs any women?

 

[Budi]

The argument that "men and women are just different, simple as that!" has been used to shut down actual conversation surrounding sex and gender for generations because people are married to these perceived truths about what men and women look like and what they are capable of. You refer to weight classes as if men and women could not conceivably compete in a weight class they both met the requirements for. People have been socialized to view male and female athletes a certain way but there just isn't any research to indicate that there is a meaningful difference at all between transgender and cisgender athletes.

Here is an article from 2016 that refers to two then-recent studies that came to this conclusion. Both the journals themselves are linked in the article, but for ease, the article summarizes the findings quite clearly:






Another study published in 2017, Sport and Transgender People: A Systematic Review of the Literature Relating to Sport Participation and Competitive Sport Policies, came to the same exact conclusion as these two others:



People think they are being sensible when they say things like "I support trans equality but athleticism is based on physiology of sex rather than gender," but this concern speaks to a lack of understanding of the physiological changes transitioned athletes reach and boils athletic performance down to sex versus all the other factors associated with athletics and fitness. Fallon Fox began her transition in 2006. It's a moot conversation. She has been a woman for her entire athletic career.


This notion that transgender athletes have an innate unfair advantage isn't harmless musing nor is it rooted in factual observation. Attitudes like this create a status quo of scrutiny and doubt. It delegitimizes the accomplishments of marginalized people because they're accused of having an advantage they don't have. Nobody ever cares if transgender athletes compete and lose, but there is this terrible fear that they could win. This is transphobia and this is why Ronda Rousey is wrong.

Any conversation about how to transgender athletes impact the world of sports should be done from the basis of how to incorporate them, not by rationalizing ways to exclude them from competitions. At the end of the day there are actual transgender people who could explain and articulate this better than I can but it must be exhausting having to defend the legitimacy of your existence all the time.

Somehow missed this post earlier, good read. Thanks for the links too.

Furthermore, regarding your fear of being called transphobic: fear of being labeled as something you are not is what trans people endure every single day and are enduring in this thread. Perhaps you can use this perspective to understand why the way you approach this discussion is so important.

And this is very well put. I'm certain transgender people would be delighted, if their worst fears were about getting banned from a gaming forum for something offensive/thoughtless they've said.

 

[Mage_of_Cinder]

It makes sense, but I lost respect for her. She used to be badass, now a name is all she's got.

 

[HotHamBoy]

These are all serious problems but I can confirm 100% that the vast majority of Americans don't give a fuck about any of those things when it comes to celebrity.

I also don't see Mortal Kombat as the flag-bearer of good taste. I expect nothing from these people.