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The Awards Season Begins. ( 2018 GOTY list aggregate thread )

Yeah, it's bad. I made the case for why it's bad before. The sad thing is that you think that any dissent from what everyone else seems to think is "trolling," which is an utterly weak, dismissive response because you have nothing to offer here.

Personally, I don't think the awful combat with it's unwieldy over-the-shoulder view is particularly fun, even as it branches during progression of the game, and I definitely don't think that the narrative full of poor dialogue spoken by admittedly good voice actors is interesting or groundbreaking or worth talking about at all from a narrative point of view. It's just a story full of well-worn tropes, which would be fine if it did more with those tropes than the bare minimum of presenting them in this form:

1. "We killed a woman off-screen that is driving all the action for the two male characters..."
2. "...but the problem is that Kratos is a bad dad who has to learn how to solve problems with love and understanding because he's yet another dude who can't learn that without having to raise this child alone."

If you look at games that are about parental relationships (or stand-ins for parental relationships) that are well-praised, they exist on tropes too, like every other form of narrative, but they are interesting in how they approach that narrative. I criticize Naughty Dog for gameplay-poor games, but I'll never get on them for actually crafting an interesting narrative in TLoU that ultimately shows how parents with unaddressed trauma make poor decisions out of fear, including out of fear for their children, for example. The Walking Dead Season 1, Papo y Yo, The Last of Us, etc., are the games that God of War is trying to stand up to in presenting this topic, and the devs just don't have the writing chops to do anything but hit the same tired-ass beats.

What's left is a game with middling combat (at least it has options, I'll give it that) that really excels on the production side. It looks good and sounds good. Sound and fury, signifying fucking nothing.

And that's fine! It's cool to enjoy empty games or total misfires that don't really achieve what they're trying to achieve. I do, certainly. I've talked about those games in the past as well. But give shit like this a billion awards, and of course I'm going to shit on reviewers.

It's just that I didn't expect a bunch of people whose identities are apparently personally tied to their favorite games getting a universally-loved reception responding with tired garbage like the following:





That last one is so upset that it's barely in English! It's pretty funny, actually.

Ultimately, awards mean zero. However, they do illustrate something about the people who give them, namely that video game reviewers should all be forced to have B.A.s in Lit or Philosophy or something that gives them the ability to dissect a game's narrative or themes at least somewhat at the level of a middling Pauline Kael or Roger Ebert movie review. ;)
So what you're saying is Astro Bot was your game of the year? If so, I totally agree.
 
Not reading that essay. Just go away lol.
This is such a sad response that I actually sort of feel bad for you.

What is your GotY for 2018?
Spider-Man, a game which I admit has flaws, but which does more than production very well. It actually handles most of its typical comic-book-story tropes better than I think I had any right to expect, and for me, I value fun traversal so much that I personally rated it highly for my own tastes.

I also have heard quite a lot of criticism about what it doesn't do well, and yeah, most of it has merit. I definitely didn't expect it to get as many plaudits as it did, honestly.

I did a top-ten list for the site, and every game on that list has flaws...except maybe Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker.

So what you're saying is Astro Bot was your game of the year? If so, I totally agree.
I didn't get in on the PSVR sale during Black Friday. What I've heard about that game makes me feel like I get where the "Best Game of the Year" arguments come from.

I actually think that this was a fantastic year where you could make a clear case for about five or six games for the top spot at the very least. God of War sure as fuck wasn't one of those games, though.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,688
Yeah, it's bad. I made the case for why it's bad before. The sad thing is that you think that any dissent from what everyone else seems to think is "trolling," which is an utterly weak, dismissive response because you have nothing to offer here.

Personally, I don't think the awful combat with it's unwieldy over-the-shoulder view is particularly fun, even as it branches during progression of the game, and I definitely don't think that the narrative full of poor dialogue spoken by admittedly good voice actors is interesting or groundbreaking or worth talking about at all from a narrative point of view. It's just a story full of well-worn tropes, which would be fine if it did more with those tropes than the bare minimum of presenting them in this form:

1. "We killed a woman off-screen that is driving all the action for the two male characters..."
2. "...but the problem is that Kratos is a bad dad who has to learn how to solve problems with love and understanding because he's yet another dude who can't learn that without having to raise this child alone."

If you look at games that are about parental relationships (or stand-ins for parental relationships) that are well-praised, they exist on tropes too, like every other form of narrative, but they are interesting in how they approach that narrative. I criticize Naughty Dog for gameplay-poor games, but I'll never get on them for actually crafting an interesting narrative in TLoU that ultimately shows how parents with unaddressed trauma make poor decisions out of fear, including out of fear for their children, for example. The Walking Dead Season 1, Papo y Yo, The Last of Us, etc., are the games that God of War is trying to stand up to in presenting this topic, and the devs just don't have the writing chops to do anything but hit the same tired-ass beats.

What's left is a game with middling combat (at least it has options, I'll give it that) that really excels on the production side. It looks good and sounds good. Sound and fury, signifying fucking nothing.

And that's fine! It's cool to enjoy empty games or total misfires that don't really achieve what they're trying to achieve. I do, certainly. I've talked about those games in the past as well. But give shit like this a billion awards, and of course I'm going to shit on reviewers.

It's just that I didn't expect a bunch of people whose identities are apparently personally tied to their favorite games getting a universally-loved reception responding with tired garbage like the following:





That last one is so upset that it's barely in English! It's pretty funny, actually.

Ultimately, awards mean zero. However, they do illustrate something about the people who give them, namely that video game reviewers should all be forced to have B.A.s in Lit or Philosophy or something that gives them the ability to dissect a game's narrative or themes at least somewhat at the level of a middling Pauline Kael or Roger Ebert movie review. ;)
Yes, you are the wise one showing us the error of our ways. God of War is 2018 Game of the Year to both critics and fans (including ERA). But yeah, we are the ones who are off base and not your minority opinion. The only thing more off putting than your pretentiousness is how wrong you are.
 
Yes, you are the wise one showing us the error of our ways. God of War is 2018 Game of the Year to both critics and fans (including ERA). But yeah, we are the ones who are off base and not your minority opinion. The only thing more off putting than your pretentiousness is how wrong you are.
Yes, because the majority is always right!

The salt from you GoW fans is pretty sad. It's not pretentious to say, "Nah, the critics fucked this one up." I didn't say anything about the fans because you're fans. I don't expect you to be incisive in your critique. Critics, by the very nature of their jobs, I do expect more from. Note that I also didn't bag on GoW winning this year's Era GotY which was voted on by enthusiasts and fans, not professional critics!

The guy was rooting for Spider-Man.
Well, no, I wasn't rooting for anything. Someone asked me what my number one game was, so I responded. I don't really root for a GotY winner. I do, however, have in mind games that I think, "Yeah, I can see where that choice comes from," games that I don't know much about, and games that I played and were fucking turds that shouldn't win that many GotY awards even considering that there will always be outliers in this type of awards voting.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,260
Yeah, it's bad. I made the case for why it's bad before. The sad thing is that you think that any dissent from what everyone else seems to think is "trolling," which is an utterly weak, dismissive response because you have nothing to offer here.

Personally, I don't think the awful combat with it's unwieldy over-the-shoulder view is particularly fun, even as it branches during progression of the game, and I definitely don't think that the narrative full of poor dialogue spoken by admittedly good voice actors is interesting or groundbreaking or worth talking about at all from a narrative point of view. It's just a story full of well-worn tropes, which would be fine if it did more with those tropes than the bare minimum of presenting them in this form:

1. "We killed a woman off-screen that is driving all the action for the two male characters..."
2. "...but the problem is that Kratos is a bad dad who has to learn how to solve problems with love and understanding because he's yet another dude who can't learn that without having to raise this child alone."

If you look at games that are about parental relationships (or stand-ins for parental relationships) that are well-praised, they exist on tropes too, like every other form of narrative, but they are interesting in how they approach that narrative. I criticize Naughty Dog for gameplay-poor games, but I'll never get on them for actually crafting an interesting narrative in TLoU that ultimately shows how parents with unaddressed trauma make poor decisions out of fear, including out of fear for their children, for example. The Walking Dead Season 1, Papo y Yo, The Last of Us, etc., are the games that God of War is trying to stand up to in presenting this topic, and the devs just don't have the writing chops to do anything but hit the same tired-ass beats.

What's left is a game with middling combat (at least it has options, I'll give it that) that really excels on the production side. It looks good and sounds good. Sound and fury, signifying fucking nothing.

And that's fine! It's cool to enjoy empty games or total misfires that don't really achieve what they're trying to achieve. I do, certainly. I've talked about those games in the past as well. But give shit like this a billion awards, and of course I'm going to shit on reviewers.

It's just that I didn't expect a bunch of people whose identities are apparently personally tied to their favorite games getting a universally-loved reception responding with tired garbage like the following:





That last one is so upset that it's barely in English! It's pretty funny, actually.

Ultimately, awards mean zero. However, they do illustrate something about the people who give them, namely that video game reviewers should all be forced to have B.A.s in Lit or Philosophy or something that gives them the ability to dissect a game's narrative or themes at least somewhat at the level of a middling Pauline Kael or Roger Ebert movie review. ;)
Shitty games don't win more GOTY awards than any other game that year both from critics and actual gamers. The game might not be for you but nothing about God of War is "shitty."
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,280
Ultimately, awards mean zero. However, they do illustrate something about the people who give them, namely that video game reviewers should all be forced to have B.A.s in Lit or Philosophy or something that gives them the ability to dissect a game's narrative or themes at least somewhat at the level of a middling Pauline Kael or Roger Ebert movie review. ;)
This implies every reviewer values narrative the same way. That obviously isn't the case though. Even if you're not a fan of how GoW handles narrative, the gameplay is a very clear strong point for numerous people and that alone can be the cause for high praise.

Spider-Man, a game which I admit has flaws, but which does more than production very well. It actually handles most of its typical comic-book-story tropes better than I think I had any right to expect, and for me, I value fun traversal so much that I personally rated it highly for my own tastes.

I also have heard quite a lot of criticism about what it doesn't do well, and yeah, most of it has merit. I definitely didn't expect it to get as many plaudits as it did, honestly.

I did a top-ten list for the site, and every game on that list has flaws...except maybe Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker.
It was one of my top games as well. I found the open world and the content in it to be pretty poor overall. It maintained its position because of the strong gameplay (swinging, combat, and the puzzles for a bit of variety).
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,222
What is your GotY for 2018?
https://www.resetera.com/threads/re...n-20th-8-59am-est.87946/page-17#post-16356167

I'd be interested to read his opinion on how God of War is a failure in game and narrative design but RDR2 isn't, especially when the former has gameplay and controls that are orders of magnitude more sophisticated and fluid. P. S I loved both games (GOW was my no 1, RDR2 was my no 2).

Sometimes a game just doesn't click for some people, but it's important not to act like your opinion is somehow automatically superior to or more credible than countless others, especially when it is outlier, insulting, condescending, rude and contrarian in nature, like his original post in this thread was. It just comes off as salty, immature and narrow minded. Ironically it is an indictment of his own opinions and take, not that of journalists as he claims, but I don't think he will be able to appreciate or comprehend that.
 
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This is such a sad response that I actually sort of feel bad for you.
Please don't feel sad for me. I don't spend my time picking games to bits and then insulting the intelligence of reviewers who happen to hold an opinion that's at odds with mine. That's where you're at. You're an armchair pundit and I doubt you've created anything of consequence. Your take is hella lame. And by the way, I hold an M.A. in English and I enjoyed God of War. Does that mean my opinion should hold more weight than the opinion of someone who doesn't have a degree? Of course not. That would be idiotic. So quit being salty and go lick your wounds elsewhere.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,688
Yes, because the majority is always right!

The salt from you GoW fans is pretty sad. It's not pretentious to say, "Nah, the critics fucked this one up." I didn't say anything about the fans because you're fans. I don't expect you to be incisive in your critique. Critics, by the very nature of their jobs, I do expect more from. Note that I also didn't bag on GoW winning this year's Era GotY which was voted on by enthusiasts and fans, not professional critics!
Your behavior has been the definition of pretentious. The fact that you can't see that only speaks to how you're not very self aware. You have been essentially mocking critics for being so incompetent and claiming that you are so much better equipped to judge quality. And it's not ERA's fault for getting it wrong....we're just enthusiasts. Good lord, that's pretentious.
 
This implies every reviewer values narrative the same way. That obviously isn't the case though. Even if you're not a fan of how GoW handles narrative, the gameplay is a very clear strong point for numerous people and that alone can be the cause for high praise.
I disagree about what that implies. I think that it implies that, across quite a few of the critical responses to GoW, the narrative was pretty consistently touted as a key part of what makes it a GotY contender. The combat was also pretty heavily touted.

For me, the camera view, the button to quick turn, and the feel of the weapons just was not working. I could do the combat, but it felt, let's say, RDR2 like in terms of how clunky it all was. Putting that aside, though, the narrative getting the praise it did was just fucking wild to me considering all the games that have explored these types of stories and that have done so without reusing tired tropes in a tired-ass way.

But even if critics aren't all valuing narrative the same way, I still think that it looks good and sounds good, and that is pretty definitively true, though I've heard tell of some issues the game has on PS4 Pro. Basically, though, that's the one thing that you can pretty quantitatively measure, outside of maybe your taste in the art direction. The rest of it has serious fucking problems that I don't think the critics did enough to seriously probe.

Actually, this is one of the things that I appreciated about some of the RDR2 criticism. It actually at least TRIED to talk about some of the pacing, movement, and combat choices that might have been poorly made. The GoW criticism, on the other hand, tended to just be like, "It's not one of those typical GoW games! There's actual characterization!" I found most of the criticism on that game to be pretty shallow, and not just because I also don't like the game!
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,343
After the rude and pretentious post, I don't know why people here gave him the benefit of the doubt to explain his thoughts. Do you think he would've done the same to your opinion? He demonstrated he doesn't respect other views. That behavior doesn't deserve a platform.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,688
I disagree about what that implies. I think that it implies that, across quite a few of the critical responses to GoW, the narrative was pretty consistently touted as a key part of what makes it a GotY contender. The combat was also pretty heavily touted.

For me, the camera view, the button to quick turn, and the feel of the weapons just was not working. I could do the combat, but it felt, let's say, RDR2 like in terms of how clunky it all was. Putting that aside, though, the narrative getting the praise it did was just fucking wild to me considering all the games that have explored these types of stories and that have done so without reusing tired tropes in a tired-ass way.

But even if critics aren't all valuing narrative the same way, I still think that it looks good and sounds good, and that is pretty definitively true, though I've heard tell of some issues the game has on PS4 Pro. Basically, though, that's the one thing that you can pretty quantitatively measure, outside of maybe your taste in the art direction. The rest of it has serious fucking problems that I don't think the critics did enough to seriously probe.

Actually, this is one of the things that I appreciated about some of the RDR2 criticism. It actually at least TRIED to talk about some of the pacing, movement, and combat choices that might have been poorly made. The GoW criticism, on the other hand, tended to just be like, "It's not one of those typical GoW games! There's actual characterization!" I found most of the criticism on that game to be pretty shallow, and not just because I also don't like the game!
Basically, you have a different opinion than the majority and for some reason that means the majority have failed as critics in your mind. That is a potent combination of pretentiousness and close mindedness.

What it really means is that you have a differing opinion. Not that your opinion is any more or any less valid than the rest.
 
Your behavior has been the definition of pretentious. The fact that you can't see that only speaks to how you're not very self aware. You have been essentially mocking critics for being so incompetent and claiming that you are so much better equipped to judge quality. And it's not ERA's fault for getting it wrong....we're just enthusiasts. Good lord, that's pretentious.
The only person who isn't self-aware is you. You come in here, you whine about how someone who disagrees with the critics who you believe validate your viewpoint is pretentious, and then you proceed to put words in my mouth. I never said ERA "got it wrong," nor did I imply that. I said that I don't expect ERA as a whole to be as critical about their games as the professional critic should be!

Exhibit fucking A:

Please don't feel sad for me. I don't spend my time picking games to bits and then insulting the intelligence of reviewers who happen to hold an opinion that's at odds with mine. That's where you're at. You're an armchair pundit and I doubt you've created anything of consequence. Your take is hella lame. And by the way, I hold an M.A. in English and I enjoyed God of War. Does that mean my opinion should hold more weight than the opinion of someone who doesn't have a degree? Of course not. That would be idiotic. So quit being salty and go lick your wounds elsewhere.
Back to your point, VanCityGamer That post above represents the level of thoughtlessness that I don't really care about when a fan does it. My expectations for your choice for GotY should be at the same level of your expectations for my choice, which is that I come at it from a fan's perspective, I'm sometimes unfair to the games that resonate with me personally by ignoring their flaws, and that I'm sometimes harder on the games that don't click with me because that is the nature of a fan...but it shouldn't be the nature of a critic. So yeah, I'm going to get on the critics for not being very critical!

Why you think that I'm holding myself above ERA when a) I post here, so obviously I'm part of the voting body that voted for GoW as GotY, and b) I haven't critiqued fans because I don't think we have the same responsibility to thorough critique of a game that paid critics do, I can only imagine is because you are mad that I don't like a game you like and therefore, you are hunting for a reason to dismiss my quibble with the critics' choices for GotY.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,260
The only person who isn't self-aware is you. You come in here, you whine about how someone who disagrees with the critics who you believe validate your viewpoint is pretentious, and then you proceed to put words in my mouth. I never said ERA "got it wrong," nor did I imply that. I said that I don't expect ERA as a whole to be as critical about their games as the professional critic should be!

Exhibit fucking A:



Back to your point, VanCityGamer That post above represents the level of thoughtlessness that I don't really care about when a fan does it. My expectations for your choice for GotY should be at the same level of your expectations for my choice, which is that I come at it from a fan's perspective, I'm sometimes unfair to the games that resonate with me personally by ignoring their flaws, and that I'm sometimes harder on the games that don't click with me because that is the nature of a fan...but it shouldn't be the nature of a critic. So yeah, I'm going to get on the critics for not being very critical!

Why you think that I'm holding myself above ERA when a) I post here, so obviously I'm part of the voting body that voted for GoW as GotY, and b) I haven't critiqued fans because I don't think we have the same responsibility to thorough critique of a game that paid critics do, I can only imagine is because you are mad that I don't like a game you like and therefore, you are hunting for a reason to dismiss my quibble with the critics' choices for GotY.
Dude just stop. You came in here calling God of War a shitty game b/c you didn't like it and then said if people here enjoy playing shitty games keep on ahead. I really stopped caring about anything else you had to say at that point.
 
Dude just stop. You came in here calling God of War a shitty game b/c you didn't like it and then said if people here enjoy playing shitty games keep on ahead. I really stopped caring about anything else you had to say at that point.
I never cared about anything that you had to say, so we're even now. If you don't like it, stop reading it. There's an ignore button somewhere around here. Click it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,222
After the rude and pretentious post, I don't know why people here gave him the benefit of the doubt to explain his thoughts. Do you think he would've done the same to your opinion? He demonstrated he doesn't respect other views. That behavior doesn't deserve a platform.
Pretentiousness, or straight arrogance. Eg being "unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people". In this instance, believing his own opinions are above all others right, whilst nearly everyone else is wrong (gamers and critics alike). Then simultaneously condemning critics as being bad at their jobs for having that difference in opinion, and being as he put it "an astonishing indictment of video game reviewing" lol.
 
Pretentiousness, or straight arrogance. Eg being "unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people". In this instance, believing his own opinions are above all others right, whilst nearly everyone else is wrong (gamers and critics alike). Then simultaneously condemning critics as being bad at their jobs for having that difference in opinion, and being "an astonishing indictment of video game reviewing" lol.
This is tired. The only arrogance on display here is on the parts of a brigade of people who think that my argument re: the shallow criticism of GoW that led to it garnering a bunch of awards based on that criticism is somehow just trolling that deserves a bunch of fucking threadwhining that someone disagrees with them. It's sad, especially considering the fact that I never came in here and said that any posters themselves were wrong for loving GoW or attacked people for their game preferences.

It's sad, people. I also expect it because people on message boards do this sort of thing, but it's still sad.

Anyway, back on topic because if y'all can't handle a critique of the critics or of your favorite game, this is just going to be endless. I'm already bored with it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,688
The only person who isn't self-aware is you. You come in here, you whine about how someone who disagrees with the critics who you believe validate your viewpoint is pretentious, and then you proceed to put words in my mouth. I never said ERA "got it wrong," nor did I imply that. I said that I don't expect ERA as a whole to be as critical about their games as the professional critic should be!

Exhibit fucking A:



Back to your point, VanCityGamer That post above represents the level of thoughtlessness that I don't really care about when a fan does it. My expectations for your choice for GotY should be at the same level of your expectations for my choice, which is that I come at it from a fan's perspective, I'm sometimes unfair to the games that resonate with me personally by ignoring their flaws, and that I'm sometimes harder on the games that don't click with me because that is the nature of a fan...but it shouldn't be the nature of a critic. So yeah, I'm going to get on the critics for not being very critical!

Why you think that I'm holding myself above ERA when a) I post here, so obviously I'm part of the voting body that voted for GoW as GotY, and b) I haven't critiqued fans because I don't think we have the same responsibility to thorough critique of a game that paid critics do, I can only imagine is because you are mad that I don't like a game you like and therefore, you are hunting for a reason to dismiss my quibble with the critics' choices for GotY.
I legitimately can't tell if you are being intentionally obtuse at this point.

Here is a quote of yours
"Note that I also didn't bag on GoW winning this year's Era GotY which was voted on by enthusiasts and fans, not professional critics!"

The implication is that you can't be mad at us for getting it wrong because we're just enthusiasts. And what are you exactly? A professional?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,603
Back on topic
Bazicenter game of the year - God of War
http://www.bazicenter.com/best-of-2018/best-game-of-the-year-no-1/

Included in previous years,this and Era will put God of War above Uncharted 4, without RDR2,GoW would have been the most award game ever,crazy.
 
I legitimately can't tell if you are being intentionally obtuse at this point.

Here is a quote of yours
"Note that I also didn't bag on GoW winning this year's Era GotY which was voted on by enthusiasts and fans, not professional critics!"

The implication is that you can't be mad at us for getting it wrong because we're just enthusiasts. And what are you exactly? A professional?
No, that's not the implication. Are you trolling me? I'm assuming that you are here because this is a frankly absurd response to what I posted.

The implication is that critics have a duty to be more incisive in their criticism (for example, incisive about the shitty tropes that GoW uses) than fans. Fans can't "get it wrong" because there is nothing to get wrong! ERA's GotY is a clear snapshot of what the site likes, and that's all. If you go through the votes, some of them have elaborate, thoughtful criticism attached to their picks; other votes have one line for one game and then no lines for anything else in order to do the bare minimum of criticism, and both of those (and every level of critique in between) are valid! We're aggregating what the site liked, and we're not doing it for pay or under the brand of "critic."

In fact, critics can't "get it wrong" either, but they should do a hell of a job of defending their choices for GotY. However, when so few critics have the sense of responsibility to do what, say, Abby over at Giant Bomb did and at least attempt to address the roles that women play in GoW's narrative, yeah, I have no problem critiquing the critics for being less than thorough in their criticism.

RDR2, for example, was very well-critiqued across the board. Something like AC: Odyssey also was really thoughtfully critiqued more than most of the past AC games were (but AC seems to be well-critiqued in general because of its appeal to multiple gender identities and cultures, though that's a whole 'nother post).

GoW, across the board, did not get that scrutiny, and yeah, I read and heard the bulk of the criticism for it. Then, it wins GotY. Other than being a game that I personally find to be shit (and I will talk about how shitty I think it is if prompted), I'm super-irritated that it, regardless of how I felt about it, didn't get the critique that other AAA games got. It has legit problems that I think needed to at least be more thoroughly addressed by the critics before they vomited up awards all over it.

Nowhere did I say or even imply that I'm the most professional of critics and I'm more right than anyone else. I went so far as to explicitly say that I'm also a fucking fan and therefore, my critique is (or should be) less valuable than that of the professional critics' critique. In fact, I said that I view things through the lens of a fan all the time. Please stop lying about what I'm saying; it's a juvenile and lame tactic. If you want to discuss this, fine, but if you're just going to bullshit and troll to bullshit and troll, please stop with the responses. They're pointless.
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,222
This is tired. The only arrogance on display here is on the parts of a brigade of people who think that my argument re: the shallow criticism of GoW that led to it garnering a bunch of awards based on that criticism is somehow just trolling that deserves a bunch of fucking threadwhining that someone disagrees with them. It's sad, especially considering the fact that I never came in here and said that any posters themselves were wrong for loving GoW or attacked people for their game preferences.

It's sad, people. I also expect it because people on message boards do this sort of thing, but it's still sad.

Anyway, back on topic because if y'all can't handle a critique of the critics or of your favorite game, this is just going to be endless. I'm already bored with it.
The sad thing is your complete and utter lack of self reflection and wider understanding, not to mention the demeaning and arrogant way in which you initially presented your argument and condemnation of critics, and indirectly gamers too.

Countless people have presented their opinions on why they disliked God of War, and I don't think any of them recieved the kind of backlash you are, and there's good reason for that. It's the way in which an argument is presented, not the fact your opinion is negative on the game.

The basic gist of why you're not as heavy handed with or damming of gamers being enamoured with God of War as you are with critics, is because you feel critics ought to be far more critical, but even that is flawed. Not only does it assume regular gamers are somehow intrinsically less critical and demanding compared to game journalists, or that they ought to be, but it also misconstrues what the purpose of a game journalist is in the first place. Their job is not necessarily to be hyper critical, their job is simply to provide a detailed and well written account of their subjective opinions of a game and their experience with it.

You also amusingly claim that most gaming journalists should be required to have at minimum a "BA in lit or philosophy or something" in order to be able to better deconstruct narrative, but the irony is, most or many already do, at least for the major outlets anyway, including journalists who gave God of War a positive review, and were glowing about its story too. Point is, having a degree in these things doesn't or didn't change the fact that most had an opinion on the narrative that simply differed to yours, not because your opinion is right whilst there's is wrong, or because you are any more or less qualified in that opinion, or because they are bad at their job, instead it's simply because your subjective preferences differered to theirs, and your opinion just so happens to be outlier in nature.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
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No, that's not the implication. Are you trolling me? I'm assuming that you are here because this is a frankly absurd response to what I posted.

The implication is that critics have a duty to be more incisive in their criticism (for example, incisive about the shitty tropes that GoW uses) than fans. Fans can't "get it wrong" because there is nothing to get wrong! ERA's GotY is a clear snapshot of what the site likes, and that's all. If you go through the votes, some of them have elaborate, thoughtful criticism attached to their picks; other votes have one line for one game and then no lines for anything else in order to do the bare minimum of criticism, and both of those (and every level of critique in between) are valid! We're aggregating what the site liked, and we're not doing it for pay or under the brand of "critic."

In fact, critics can't "get it wrong" either, but they should do a hell of a job of defending their choices for GotY. However, when so few critics have the sense of responsibility to do what, say, Abby over at Giant Bomb did and at least attempt to address the roles that women play in GoW's narrative, yeah, I have no problem critiquing the critics for being less than thorough in their criticism.

RDR2, for example, was very well-critiqued across the board. Something like AC: Odyssey also was really thoughtfully critiqued more than most of the past AC games were (but AC seems to be well-critiqued in general because of its appeal to multiple gender identities and cultures, though that's a whole 'nother post).

GoW, across the board, did not get that scrutiny, and yeah, I read and heard the bulk of the criticism for it. Then, it wins GotY. Other than being a game that I personally find to be shit (and I will talk about how shitty I think it is if prompted), I'm super-irritated that it, regardless of how I felt about it, didn't get the critique that other AAA games got. It has legit problems that I think needed to at least be more thoroughly addressed by the critics before they vomited up awards all over it.

Nowhere did I say or even imply that I'm the most professional of critics and I'm more right than anyone else. I went so far as to explicitly say that I'm also a fucking fan and therefore, my critique is (or should be) less valuable than that of the professional critics' critique. In fact, I said that I view things through the lens of a fan all the time. Please stop lying about what I'm saying; it's a juvenile and lame tactic. If you want to discuss this, fine, but if you're just going to bullshit and troll to bullshit and troll, please stop with the responses. They're pointless.
Notice how every single person who has weighed in has also called you out for being pretentious and no one has agreed with you? I wonder why that is. Clearly everyone else is wrong and misreading what you wrote. It can't be that you're off base. But yeah, this clearly isn't going anywhere. You can continue being delusional.
 
Notice how every single person who has weighed in has also called you out for being pretentious and no one has agreed with you? I wonder why that is. Clearly everyone else is wrong and misreading what you wrote. It can't be that you're off base. But yeah, this clearly isn't going anywhere. You can continue being delusional.
Yes, because mob mentality doesn't exist, and people on the internet aren't defensive about every-fucking-thing. No, the group is right. You folks aren't deluded about your own sense of clear-headedness.

But yeah, this isn't going anywhere. You couldn't even be bothered to respond to anything I said. You're arguing in bad faith. You don't like the critique of your favorite game; you'll get over it. Don't respond to me. Thanks.
The sad thing is your complete and utter lack of self reflection and wider understanding, not to mention the demeaning and arrogant way in which you initially presented your argument and condemnation of critics, and indirectly gamers too.

Countless people have presented their opinions on why they disliked God of War, and I don't think any of them recieved the kind of backlash you are, and there's good reason for that. It's the way in which an argument is presented, not the fact your opinion is negative on the game.

The basic gist of why you're not as heavy handed with gamers in being enamoured with God of War as you are with critics, is because you feel critics ought to be far more critical, but even that is flawed. Not only does it assume regular gamers are somehow intrinsically less critical and demanding compared to game journalists, but it also misconstrues what the purpose of a game journalist is in the first place. Their job is not necessarily to be hyper critical, their job is simply to provide an account of their subjective opinions of a game and their experience with it.

You also amusingly claim that most gaming journalists should be required to have at minimum a BA in lit or philosophy in order to be able to better deconstruct narrative, but the irony is, most do, at least for thesjpr outlets anyway, including journalists who gave God of War a positive review, and were glowing about its story too. Point is, having a degree in these things doesn't or didn't change the fact that their opinion on the narrative simply differed to yours, not because your opinion is right whilst there's is wrong, or because you are any more or less qualified in that opinion, but simply because your subjective preferences differered to theirs, and happens to be outlier in nature.
This goes for you, too. You're gabbing on about stuff that doesn't even address most of my points about my issues with the criticism of GoW, which I elaborated on. Yeah, this is going nowhere. Don't @ me, your responses are pointless and your attitude here is more about trolling and insults than it is an attempt at honest discussion.

Deuces, folks, and just a reminder on the way out: God of War is shit (in my opinion, added here for those of you who can't tell that what someone posts is naturally their opinion), and the critical examination of it is even shittier.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,554
London
God of War leading the GotY awards in 2018 is, to me, a sign that I should take note of what critics are saying even less than I do now. All the great games to come out this year, and that leads the way. Just an astonishing indictment of video game reviewing that it's championing the sort of by-the-numbers narrative-based pabulum that gets love for being really well-produced and of high production value.
Yeesh! This post is oozing with arrogance and inflammatory articulation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,361
Looking at that GOTY list, Resetera has great taste confirmed. I did not expect Spider-Man to beat RDR2 though, damn...

Let's now all create our own forums with our own GOTY vote where our favorite game wins! :D
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,167
It's been over the only question now is how many are left for God of War to win. I'm curious how close it can get to Breath of the Wild since that's the next closest now that it passed Uncharted 4.
I don't think there's much left. Maybe a handful?
Looking at that GOTY list, Resetera has great taste confirmed. I did not expect Spider-Man to beat RDR2 though, damn...
Fun + better gameplay won :) God of War and Spider-Man.
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,222
This goes for you, too. You're gabbing on about stuff that doesn't even address most of my points about my issues with the criticism of GoW, which I elaborated on. Yeah, this is going nowhere. Don't @ me, your responses are pointless and your attitude here is more about trolling and insults than it is an attempt at honest discussion.

Deuces, folks, and just a reminder on the way out: God of War is shit (in my opinion, added here for those of you who can't tell that what someone posts is naturally their opinion), and the critical examination of it is even shittier.
Because they simply weren't issues for the vast majority of people who played the game. We have on this forum, discussed at length and in detail many of the things you're talking about, including the depiction of women, the narrative and character portrayals as a whole, combat systems, the impact of the camera and so on, I suggest you read some of them to get an idea of why so many did not feel the same way as you did on these points. We're not talking about short, inconsequential discussions either, but in depth and highly detailed analysis and break down, especially of the narrative and use of characters.

Honestly, you could learn to adopt some humility and less arrogance in how you forward your arguments. When countless people are all saying the same thing about you, it's time to step back and self reflect, and acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, it isn't everyone else who is the issue, but perhaps you yourself and how you present or argue things.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,227
One game was deducted points for having problems.
One game was not deducted points for having problems.

That just leaves a bad sensation in regards to review culture and the hype machines that drive these releases.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,688
Because they simply weren't issues for the vast majority of people who played the game. We have on this forum, discussed at length and in detail many of the things you're talking about, including the depiction of women, the narrative and character portrayals as a whole, combat systems, the impact of the camera and so on, I suggest you read some of them to get an idea of why so many did not feel the same way as you did on these points. We're not talking about short, inconsequential discussions either, but in depth and highly detailed analysis and break down, especially of the narrative and use of characters.

Honestly, you could learn to adopt some humility and less arrogance in how you forward your arguments. When countless people are all saying the same thing about you, it's time to step back and self reflect, and acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, it isn't everyone else who is the issue, but perhaps you yourself and how you present or argue things.
Yup, perfectly said. It has been a LONG while since I've come across someone so obnoxious and lacking in self-awareness.