"Yet Another Generic White Dude" - A legitimate discussion on criticism regarding character design diversity

Slayven

You probably post about me on another board.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
29,426
From H.G Wells and Tolken, White dudes been saving the day slaying dragons and punching big bads. Can others get a chance? Science Fiction and Fantasy can create amazing worlds, how about lettings others live in them and not be the love interest or plucky side kick.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,033
I'm not saying you couldn't make a good/great piece of media by using ones' gender or race interchangeably. That what seem to be working in Hollywood now. What I mean is the subtle nuisances that makes the characters more than the sum of their parts. I'm not asking for a dissertation or a complete cultural deconstruction guys relax, lol. Okay, several of you guys mentioned Ripley, great female lead and not meant to be. This works well in a sci-fi/fantasy setting where you could create an entire universe free from the social/economical baggage that our current world has. Templates are fine for settings like this because you're free to create, edit, change, and explore as much or as little of the characters background without real-world commentaries should you so chose (which makes it a problem when most people use male/white for their humanoid characters, but I digress). But let's take another strong female character, Clarice Starling from Silence of the Lamb. She lives in a world similar to our own and have to fight an uphill battle with doing her job, often times butting heads with her superiors, peers, and other men in she interacts with. Her entire story would change drastically if she was anything other than a woman. See what I mean?
Oh, of course! I understand your point wholeheartedly, don't misunderstand. I'm not saying minority characters shouldn't deal with those sociopolitical issues. All I'm saying is that, if a white cis-het male character doesn't deal with any of those issues in a story, a black trans-queer intersex individual wouldn't deal with them either.

However...
It obviously depends on the context of the whole story. For me, I'd suggest that exploring the sociopolitical aspects of being a black lesbian would only serve to grant further authenticity the character and the story - but that's only a surface level observation. I don't think failing to do so would render things completely pointless or weak (it can still be a strong story, regardless), it would just lose a level of nuance that the might help a black lesbian reading this character to identify with them.
...This is also true. I am losing the nuance by not exploring the issues that a black lesbian would face, but I also don't think that's necessarily wrong. It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing. That's how I look at it.
 
Dec 5, 2017
1,753
User Banned (1 week): History of dismissing Concerns on Representation and Inclusivity
I feel this. To me it's not even that f these protags are white. It's that they're fucking boring. Most of them are basic looking "ladykillers" with a dark and troubled past and spotty morals. Bonus point if they're Daddies and regret what they've done in the past now that they have a kid.

Sometimes the writers do something with it so that White Male protags are interesting (For example I like what was done with John Marston from RDR1), but most of the time it's a warning sign for me that this game's about to be average lol. Plus, humans have all these beautiful, interesting and unique variations. It makes 0 sense other than being a bigot (let's be honest)/uncreative (let's be honest) for sooo many of these protags to be White dudes, ESPECIALLY in 2019 when people KNOW that POC and Women play video games (I mean, we always have, but cmon).

And before anyone quotes me, if you want your protag to be a white dude then go ahead, make the game, but then don't whine when people 1. Call you out on being unoriginal and 2. Don't buy your game.

As for this new game, honestly my main problem with him is that he looks like Tom Holland. What's Spiderman doing in space?
Wouldn't a person not buying a game because it has a white dude make them you know, a bigot?
 
Oct 27, 2017
636
It is a little disingenuous for the graphic to skip all the games that DON'T have set white male protagonists, though.
I skipped Battlefront 2 because single player was a relatively short addition to a multiplayer game. My rough test is whether the character is the "mascot" of the game, at least for post-DOS titles. I suppose I could use her the same way EA did in the cover art- wearing a pilot's mask so you can't tell her gender. Other games like KOTOR have custom protagonists with no canon look. What else am I missing? Like I said, it was quick and dirty.
 
Aug 31, 2018
142
Lot of misinformation here. Here's a list taken from IMDB of the top characters from each of the Star Wars movies since Disney took over the franchise:

VII
Old characters
Han Solo
Luke Skywalker
Princess Leia
C-3PO
Chewbacca

New Good Guys
Rey
Finn
Poe Dameron
Maz Kanata

New Bad Guys
Kylo Ren
Supreme Leader Snoke
General Hux
Captain Phasma


Rogue One
Old Characters
Darth Vader
Governor Tarkin
Mon Mothma
Bail Organa

New Good Guys
Jyn Erso
Galen Erso
Cassian Andor
K-2SO
Chirrut Imwe
Baze Malbus
Saw Gerrera
Bodhi Rook

New Bad Guys
Director Orson Krennic


Solo
Old Characters
Han Solo
Chewbacca
Lando Calrissian

New Good Guys
Qi-ra
Val
Enfys Nest
L3-37
Rio Durant

New Bad Guys
Beckett
Dryden Vos


VIII
Old Characters
Luke Skywalker
Leia Organa
C-3PO
Yoda

New Good Guys
Rey
Finn
Poe
Rose Tico
Vice Admiral Holdo

New Bad Guys
Kylo Ren
Snoke
General Hux
Captain Phasma
DJ

--

I have not seen Rebels, nor have I played the campaign in Battlefront and Battlefront 2.

However, out of the main movies here, the new white male characters introduced into the franchise have been villains. The sole exception is Galen Erso in Rogue One, and Poe Dameron. As well, every single new villain introduced has been a white person, if they are not an alien (surely Snoke is white/grey?). Almost every single new protagonist in these movies has been either a woman or PoC.

Star Wars -at least the live action movies- since the Disney takeover, has been quite diversified, if you consider that they aren't going to be changing the ethnicity of an existing character.
Yeah but THE main characters are still and most likely will always be white.

Black people and other PoC are good for short stories, comic books and a two hour tutorial campaign in a multiplayer focused game but never good enough for the big movies that 90% of the world will eventually end up seeing. They are always the friend of the side kick and just recently have been upgraded to THE actual sidekick with E7 and 8.
 
Oct 29, 2017
729
You started this by saying "No one wants a situation where there's diversity for diversity sake," and we're saying we very much do. You argue from this position as if people are actively trying to discourage how minority background interactions happen, but nobody is saying that. We're just pointing out that you don't need to include those interactions with your story to include minorities.

To use your example, yes, the movie Silence of the Lambs would indeed be very different if you changed the gender and sourthern background interactions that Clarice has Hannibal and other characters. You are correct that it would indeed result in a different movie. However, that doesn't necessarily entail that it would be an inferior movie. Nor does it entail that it would be a superior one, either, sure, but the argument I'm making here is that having those interactions is neither necessary nor inherently beneficial to the story.

You don't need a fantasy story to accomplish this. You can make this happen in a real life setting. It would be statistically improbable to have an interaction between two people that is purely egalitarian without bias' towards whatever minority status a cahracter has, but that doesn't actually matter. If 99% act differently towards a woman than they do a man, there is nothing stopping you from writing the super-rare character that doesn't. That's not even unrealistic, really, just rare. And it's also ignoring the fact that most movies in general have unrealistic interactions as a conceit of whatever plot their having.

Again, to use your example, you don't necessarily need to write the gender dynamics between Clarice Starling and Hannibal Lector using the justification that it's realistic because Hannibal lector himself isn't a realistic character. Some aspects of his characterization are true, but you try finding highbrow hyper-intellectual sociopath cannibals whose ethics are based in politeness and etiquetteand see how many you find. If the lack of statistical relevance doesn't matter to writing a character like Hannibal Lector, why would it be the case for his gender interactions?
With Clarice Starling, she has to be a woman for her interaction with Hannibal to work. It's the ebb and flow of their entire relationship and (on a more icky side of things) if Lector has romantic feelings towards her. If the film calls for an open cast for the role of Detective Starling and the screenplay was changed to reflect that, then we wouldn't get a tenth of the more intricate or intimate moments that we do in the current film.

I really hate the dog whistle "diversity for the sake of diversity ", what does it even mean. That having a poc, woman, lqbtq character needs to have a reason to exist and usurp the white straight male standard?
That's the old hat argument I've mentioned in my post because I knew it would be used as an excuse to continue the status quo. Diversity in any medium can always be a good thing, but it truly sings when the creative platforms make an effort to make them fleshed out characters.
 
Oct 28, 2017
136
Oh, of course! I understand your point wholeheartedly, don't misunderstand. I'm not saying minority characters shouldn't deal with those sociopolitical issues. All I'm saying is that, if a white cis-het male character doesn't deal with any of those issues in a story, a black trans-queer intersex individual wouldn't deal with them either.

However...

...This is also true. I am losing the nuance by not exploring the issues that a black lesbian would face, but I also don't think that's necessarily wrong. It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing. That's how I look at it.
Aye, as Terrell posted in response below being "just allowed to be" can be empowering too. One example that I tend to find frustrating is the depiction of say non-western countries in cinema as often being ravaged by war and crime in the future - as if we can't imagine a future for a set of non-western locations that isn't positive.

If you were to write something with say, for example (because there's been prevalent conflicts recently), a middle eastern country in the future being idealistic and free of being war ridden - even without any real context of how it got to that point - there's still value to that depending on it's execution. Depicting them as war torn or terror mongering perpetuates this idea that there's no opportunity for change. However, a story exploring the nuances and depths of how it got to that point would be great too. Particularly if it wasn't simply based on a western capitalist vision of what's the idealistic future for a country.

Yes. To further that point, to see such a character devoid of the usual socio-political struggles associated with them can be seen as aspirational or empowering to some, in that they are just allowed to be. That also has value in some respects, even for stories set in our socio-political backdrop.

Many hack writers use minority struggles in lazy and haphazard ways purely to add characterization where there is none otherwise, as a form of tokenism, while over-use of the technique noted above is seen as attempting to erase the struggles of minority groups in media. So while I don't recommend such a technique, I would also not discourage it. As with most things, used in moderation and used responsibly, it's totally fine.
Absolutely, fair point. It generally comes down to how it's executed and the intention behind it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,633
I skipped Battlefront 2 because single player was a relatively short addition to a multiplayer game. My rough test is whether the character is the "mascot" of the game, at least for post-DOS titles. I suppose I could use her the same way EA did in the cover art- wearing a pilot's mask so you can't tell her gender. Other games like KOTOR have custom protagonists with no canon look. What else am I missing? Like I said, it was quick and dirty.
Yeahhhhh that doesn't track. Iden was all over the place in their marketing, the actress presented the game in multiple places, and they touted the Single Player a lot as well. You'd also have to be blind to not be able to tell that Iden is a woman on the front cover.

They even DLC single player content about her. I enjoyed her story. It feels like you're ignoring her to make a point.
 
Jan 10, 2019
177
Yeah but THE main characters are still and most likely will always be white.
I guess this is an example of why it's impossible to please people when it comes to this issue.

The three main good guys (four if we include Rose) in the new star wars, not a single one is a white male, and yet people are still unhappy about the diversity.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,275
Other games like KOTOR have custom protagonists with no canon look. What else am I missing? Like I said, it was quick and dirty.
Jedi Academy and the KOTOR games had canon designs for their protagonists, even though they gave you the option of selecting a different race/gender. In Legends canon, Revan and Jaden Korr are both white males, and Meetra Surik aka the Jedi Exile is a white woman. Revan and Meetra both appeared in their canon designs in The Old Republic.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Canada
I guess this is an example of why it's impossible to please people when it comes to this issue.

The three main good guys (four if we include Rose) in the new star wars, not a single one is a white male, and yet people are still unhappy about the diversity.
"We gave you what you wanted this one time, why are you still talking about it?"

May not have been your intention, but it can easily read as advocating tokenism.
 
Jan 10, 2019
177
"We gave you what you wanted this one time, why are you still talking about it?"

May not have been your intention, but it can easily read as advocating tokenism.
I don't believe I said that, or what you're implying from it.

The only white male in the new Star Wars cast is the bad guy. We should be celebrating that, not complaining that the diversity is the "wrong kind of diversity".
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
I’d like to other races as main characters myself, but how does it make the character more interesting? The character will probably be the same just with a different ethnicity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
131
I don't believe I said that, or what you're implying from it.

The only white male in the new Star Wars cast is the bad guy. We should be celebrating that, not complaining that the diversity is the "wrong kind of diversity".
Ok but why not? if a minority has a problem with say the way Finn is written/marketed as a character in comparison to Rey seeing as how they're both leads of the new Star Wars movie there are legitimate points to be made. Many of my black friends have found it hard to be excited for the sequel trilogy because they see some of the ways LF has handled Finn's story to be lacking. We should be able to criticize attempts at writing diverse characters and not just accept whatever is give to us.
 
Oct 25, 2017
139
I really hate the dog whistle "diversity for the sake of diversity ", what does it even mean. That having a poc, woman, lqbtq character needs to have a reason to exist and usurp the white straight male standard?
I once had a discussion with a friend he was complaining about female led comedies going down to the level of men. Why do they need these childish rude comedies? Movie studios shouldn't go to that level with there female led movies but make great content.

I told him we just want an equal piece of the pie. Why can white men have all these mediocre and bad things but there has to be a reason for a character to not be white or male.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,509
I once had a discussion with a friend he was complaining about female led comedies going down to the level of men. Why do they need these childish rude comedies? Movie studios shouldn't go to that level with there female led movies but make great content.

I told him we just want an equal piece of the pie. Why can white men have all these mediocre and bad things but there has to be a reason for a character to not be white or male.
You should suggest to him Broad City so he can see just how wrong he is
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Canada
I don't believe I said that, or what you're implying from it.

The only white male in the new Star Wars cast is the bad guy. We should be celebrating that, not complaining that the diversity is the "wrong kind of diversity".
Starting off with "it's impossible to please people when it comes to this issue" doesn't give one an impression that you're coming at this discussion from the right angle, seeing it as if positive representation is intended for appeasement of minority groups above all other things. Nor does saying that anyone having further reason to critique is equivalent to looking a gift horse in the mouth, as you've just further implied with this post above.
 
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OP
OP
Veelk
Oct 25, 2017
3,568
With Clarice Starling, she has to be a woman for her interaction with Hannibal to work. It's the ebb and flow of their entire relationship and (on a more icky side of things) if Lector has romantic feelings towards her. If the film calls for an open cast for the role of Detective Starling and the screenplay was changed to reflect that, then we wouldn't get a tenth of the more intricate or intimate moments that we do in the current film.
Your making the assumption that the current form of the movie is the most ideal interpretation that it can be. Truth is, we don't actually know that, of any movie.

Moreover, nothing your describing is gender exclusive either. The show Hannibal stars Will Graham as the protagonists, but incorporates several elements of the Hannibal-Clarice relationship, including the possibility of a romantic attraction between the two.

Not only does it work while being a relationship like nothing anyone's ever seen, I would argue it's the best adaptation of Hannibal lector in general.

Your stuck in the mindset that because you like silence of the lambs, the way it was made is only way it could be made while still being good. This is not true. You can say that the gender dynamics in SotL is used to enhance the movie, but they aren't inherent to the movie being as good as it is.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,994
Wouldn't a person not buying a game because it has a white dude make them you know, a bigot?
nah. twisting shit to defend the white-dude-dominated status quo in games, tho...

pulling the 'you're being racist/sexist against white dudes!' card is never a good look, man.

Jedi Academy and the KOTOR games had canon designs for their protagonists, even though they gave you the option of selecting a different race/gender. In Legends canon, Revan and Jaden Korr are both white males, and Meetra Surik aka the Jedi Exile is a white woman. Revan and Meetra both appeared in their canon designs in The Old Republic.
yah i never liked that they did that, but it was still better than nothing. like, i can think back on kotor, and remember how both the exile and revan were women, regardless of what other expanded universe stuff outside of those games might say.
 
Oct 30, 2017
640
nothing about skin color is interesting to me. To me its like pointing to a mole on someones cheek and being like, "is this character more interesting now?". It mean nothing unless its given context in the world it is set in
 
Aug 31, 2018
142
I guess this is an example of why it's impossible to please people when it comes to this issue.

The three main good guys (four if we include Rose) in the new star wars, not a single one is a white male, and yet people are still unhappy about the diversity.
The idea of white supremacy and portraying to the world a white saviour of the universe superceeds gender and sexual orientation. If you are an underrepresented black person but still a fan of the media you are underrepresented in, what does a white, gay, female lead character do for you?
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,033
nothing about skin color is interesting to me. To me its like pointing to a mole on someones cheek and being like, "is this character more interesting now?". It mean nothing unless its given context in the world it is set in
If you acknowledge that there are more white male protagonists that minority protagonists and that their whiteness has no bearing on the character, then you should have no problem with making said character a minority character.
 
Nov 16, 2017
6,518
I’d like to other races as main characters myself, but how does it make the character more interesting? The character will probably be the same just with a different ethnicity.
You’re right. But that question was sort of directed at ppl saying it’s boring to play as a white male.
Why do we need a reason to be the story lead?

Why can't we be the playable focus for no other reason except just cause. Thats the same reasoning being used for white males.

Its boring to play as a white male because majority of games have playable white males if the lead is a human character.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,239
Why do we need a reason to be the story lead?

Why can't we be the playable focus for no other reason except just cause. Thats the same reasoning being used for white males.

Its boring to play as a white male because majority of games have playable white males if the lead is a human character.
See how all these criteria come out the woodwork for other's but not for the default.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,813
Why do we need a reason to be the story lead?

Why can't we be the playable focus for no other reason except just cause. Thats the same reasoning being used for white males.

Its boring to play as a white male because majority of games have playable white males if the lead is a human character.
Pretty sure the poster you're quoting is not saying that there needs to be a reason for other races to be the main character in a game. Just like there doesn't need to be a reason for a white guy to be the main character.

He's just responding to opinions that to be white and male in a video game is automatically less interesting, regardless of anything else.

See how all these criteria come out the woodwork for other's but not for the default.
You're reading into something that isn't there. Don't see anyone attaching criteria to making protagonists not white and male.
 
Oct 27, 2017
290
Yeah but THE main characters are still and most likely will always be white.

Black people and other PoC are good for short stories, comic books and a two hour tutorial campaign in a multiplayer focused game but never good enough for the big movies that 90% of the world will eventually end up seeing. They are always the friend of the side kick and just recently have been upgraded to THE actual sidekick with E7 and 8.
True. They have a lot of work to do. Especially in the games.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,033
I think you'll find that lots of people on Era tend to think that it is actually an act of bravery and taking a stand in favor of diversity.
Surely it's just posturing on Era's part and not the fact that we would legitimately like to see more minorities as leads in video games

Surely
 
Nov 16, 2017
6,518
Pretty sure the poster you're quoting is not saying that there needs to be a reason for other races to be the main character in a game. Just like there doesn't need to be a reason for a white guy to be the main character.

He's just responding to opinions that to be white and male in a video game is automatically less interesting, regardless of anything else.
Its an extremely circular question however.

This thread is based on the concept that people were disappointed to see the new character lead as a white male in a franchise that has growing representation because the game industry already has a vast collection of white male leads in previous titles.

If you're asking "what makes other races more interesting" as a response to the topic, you've 100% missed the point of the thread and nobody can expect you to actually understand the issue.

Like nobody can lack that much understanding.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,813
Its an extremely circular question however.

This thread is based on the concept that people were disappointed to see the new character lead as a white male in a franchise that has growing representation because the game industry already has a vast collection of white male leads in previous titles.

If you're asking "what makes other races more interesting" as a response to the topic, you've 100% missed the point of the thread and nobody can expect you to actually understand the issue.

Like nobody can lack that much understanding.
In his follow up post he specified that he was responding to the sentiment that white and male is boring and uninteresting.

There are a lot of different arguments and points being presented in this thread as part of the overarching topic. It's fair game to respond to them individually.
 
Dec 25, 2017
482
A non-white male lead is infinitely more interesting than a white male lead based on the fact that they aren't a white male lead alone...


Sorry, but I don't think there is a single person in this thread that likes to see the same thing over and over again, no matter how much they try to play that bullshit "I don't see color in videogames" card. White male leads are literally the norm. Some of you sound particularly hurt for no reason in this thread...
 

gnoclaude

Banned
Member
Nov 30, 2017
88
User Banned (3 Days): Trolling, Dismissing Concerns on Representation and Inclusivity
If the first thing you see when you look at someone is color you are a racist. If the only important character trait is sex you are a sexist. Everyone who complains about the sex or color of anyone is the textbook definition of a bigot.

Humanity is what we relate to. When kids play they dont pick heroes based of color they pick off courage and badassery. No kid ever said I would like Spiderman but he's white or I would like Spawn but he's a black. Not ever. White kids argue over who gets to be Black Panther same as Mexicans argue over who gets to be Wolverine. Kids dont see color or need representation. It's a way to divide us and push certain agendas.

I saw a trailer for what may be the best Star Wars game ever. That's what we should be talking about. Not complaining a character in a game is a certain race and sex.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
Why do we need a reason to be the story lead?

Why can't we be the playable focus for no other reason except just cause. Thats the same reasoning being used for white males.

Its boring to play as a white male because majority of games have playable white males if the lead is a human character.
I agree with you completely. It should be just cause. Im asking how can a character be boring just cause of his or her race? Having different races is a must, but it doesn’t decide if a character is boring or not.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,288
Canada
If the first thing you see when you look at someone is color you are a racist. If the only important character trait is sex you are a sexist. Everyone who complains about the sex or color of anyone is the textbook definition of a bigot.

Humanity is what we relate to. When kids play they dont pick heroes based of color they pick off courage and badassery. No kid ever said I would like Spiderman but he's white or I would like Spawn but he's a black. Not ever. White kids argue over who gets to be Black Panther same as Mexicans argue over who gets to be Wolverine. Kids dont see color or need representation. It's a way to divide us and push certain agendas.

I saw a trailer for what may be the best Star Wars game ever. That's what we should be talking about. Not complaining a character in a game is a certain race and sex.
Try again

https://broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/zmwq3x/why-diversity-on-screen-is-important-black-panther

"
Sadly, little has changed since the 80s. A 2011 study conducted by The Opportunity Agenda found that black males in media are usually portrayed negatively, limited to a handful of “positive” stereotypes, painted as flat characters, or missing altogether. (Last year’s USC Annenberg report, for example, found that a quarter of the 900 movies analyzed didn’t have even one speaking or named black character.) Audiences—especially those with little exposure to those outside of their community—typically equate these limited, and harsh, media representations with the real world. That, in turn, can lead to “less attention from doctors to harsher sentencing by judges, lower likelihood of being hired for a job or admitted to school, lower odds of getting loans, and a higher likelihood of being shot by police,” the authors write.

The report also found that black males themselves were impacted by these media portrayals: “Negative media stereotypes (thugs, criminals, fools, and the disadvantaged) are demoralizing and reduce self-esteem and expectations,” they write, adding that they can also create stress and “drain cognitive resources in some contexts.”"
 
Nov 16, 2017
6,518
A non-white male lead is infinitely more interesting than a white male lead based on the fact that they aren't a white male lead alone...


Sorry, but I don't think there is a single person in this thread that likes to see the same thing over and over again, no matter how much they try to play that bullshit "I don't see color in videogames" card. White male leads are literally the norm. Some of you sound particularly hurt for no reason in this thread...
Exactly, people want different imagery. Hell, even a playable character who's disabled opens up a ton of gameplay ideas and options. Its inherently creatively limiting to stick to the same ass archetypes

If the first thing you see when you look at someone is color you are a racist. If the only important character trait is sex you are a sexist. Everyone who complains about the sex or color of anyone is the textbook definition of a bigot.

Humanity is what we relate to. When kids play they dont pick heroes based of color they pick off courage and badassery. No kid ever said I would like Spiderman but he's white or I would like Spawn but he's a black. Not ever. White kids argue over who gets to be Black Panther same as Mexicans argue over who gets to be Wolverine. Kids dont see color or need representation. It's a way to divide us and push certain agendas.

I saw a trailer for what may be the best Star Wars game ever. That's what we should be talking about. Not complaining a character in a game is a certain race and sex.
Only someone who doesn't know a goddamn lick about history could post something this stupid.

Just completely ignore the history of racism and sexism and its current day effects on modern society.

I agree with you completely. It should be just cause. Im asking how can a character be boring just cause of his or her race? Having different races is a must, but it doesn’t decide if a character is boring or not.
Its a commentary on visual description not the character's worth.

There are 100 artists making pictures, and you decide to look at them at an art gallery. When you look, 96 of the artists made pictures using the color Red when you know the artists had 7 colors available to them to make their art. Thats boring.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,428
A non-white male lead is infinitely more interesting than a white male lead based on the fact that they aren't a white male lead alone...


Sorry, but I don't think there is a single person in this thread that likes to see the same thing over and over again, no matter how much they try to play that bullshit "I don't see color in videogames" card. White male leads are literally the norm. Some of you sound particularly hurt for no reason in this thread...
A human is a human. A character isnt great just because they are a minority. Spartan locke was super boring and there is about 0% of halo fans who would like another game starring him.
Far more would like another game starring master chief or even the arbiter.

The oppositie is true for Watch dogs. Marcus was great and people would loved another game with him... Aiden sucked and nobody cared he was replaced

In gears 5 most dont care kait is replacing JD because he was pretty boring and she was far more interesting.

Writing is far more important to a character than what race they are. I mean obviously of course.
 
Dec 25, 2017
482
A human is a human. A character isnt great just because they are black. Spartan locke was super boring and there is about 0% of halo fans who would like another game starring him.
Far more would like another game starring master chief or even the arbiter.

The oppositie is true for Watch dogs. Marcus was great and people would loved another game with him... Aiden sucked and nobody cared he was replaced
You do not have a handle on this discussion whatsoever, and quite frankly, this "you shouldn't care about skin color" tripe that gets brought up every time I want to see something other than a whiteguy got tiring after the first few attempts...

Making a claim like "a human is a human", especially in this capacity, is an insult to the concept of individuality and diversity (things ALL humans possess), period...
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,033
If the first thing you see when you look at someone is color you are a racist. If the only important character trait is sex you are a sexist. Everyone who complains about the sex or color of anyone is the textbook definition of a bigot.

Humanity is what we relate to. When kids play they dont pick heroes based of color they pick off courage and badassery. No kid ever said I would like Spiderman but he's white or I would like Spawn but he's a black. Not ever. White kids argue over who gets to be Black Panther same as Mexicans argue over who gets to be Wolverine. Kids dont see color or need representation. It's a way to divide us and push certain agendas.

I saw a trailer for what may be the best Star Wars game ever. That's what we should be talking about. Not complaining a character in a game is a certain race and sex.
It's funny because their race and sex isn't important to their character. At all.

And as DigitalOp phrased it:

There are 100 artists making pictures, and you decide to look at them at an art gallery. When you look, 96 of the artists made pictures using the color Red when you know the artists had 7 colors available to them to make their art. Thats boring.
When the majority of video games star white men whose skin color nor sex matters to the story, it begs the question, "why couldn't have this person been another race or sex in the effort of creating diversity?"

Like, TLOU would have lost absolutely nothing if Joel was an Asian man or a Black woman.
 
Nov 16, 2017
6,518
A human is a human. A character isnt great just because they are a minority. Spartan locke was super boring and there is about 0% of halo fans who would like another game starring him.
Far more would like another game starring master chief or even the arbiter.

The oppositie is true for Watch dogs. Marcus was great and people would loved another game with him... Aiden sucked and nobody cared he was replaced

In gears 5 most dont care kait is replacing JD because he was pretty boring and she was far more interesting.

Writing is far more important to a character than what race they are. I mean obviously of course.
And the point is for more minority characters to get the opportunity to be written boring or written well.

Everything you said means diddly squat if a minority character can't even get a lead role to get the OPPORTUNITY for having a good characterization from writing.

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This is how gnoclaude sees the world



Lol 😂
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,428
You do not have a handle on this discussion whatsoever, and quite frankly, this "you shouldn't care about skin color" tripe that gets brought up every time I want to see something other than a whiteguy got tiring after the first few attempts...

Making a claim like "a human is a human", especially in this capacity, is an insult to the concept of individuality and diversity (things ALL humans possess), period...
Im talking from a writing perspective.
I support diversity in lead characters to be sure.
But just because a character is one race or another has no bearing on whether they will be an interesting character.

Doesn't mean you or anyone else should not be happy when a minority character is brought to life. Its a chance to have a good character, obviously.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,033
Im talking from a writing perspective.
I support diversity in lead characters to be sure.
But just because a character is one race or another has no bearing on whether they will be an interesting character.

Doesn't mean you or anyone else should not be happy when a minority character is brought to life. Its a chance to have a good character, obviously.
That's exactly the point.
 
Dec 25, 2017
482
Im talking from a writing perspective.
I support diversity in lead characters to be sure.
But just because a character is one race or another has no bearing on whether they will be an interesting character.

Doesn't mean you or anyone else should not be happy when a minority character is brought to life. Its a chance to have a good character, obviously.
My quote was "a non-white male would be infinitely more interesting based on the fact that they're not a white male ALONE"...

I'm interested to know why you would think responding to that "from a writing perspective" would make any sense...