Nintendo hits popular homebrew YouTuber, Modern Vintage Gamer, with numerous copyright claims forcing him to stop making Switch homebrew videos.

Feb 6, 2019
174
on one hand I totally hate homebrew, not cause of homebrew itself but cause the linked results that people try to sweep under the rug.

that said, this is totally an opening the pandora box scenario, where Nintendo abused the DMCA (as long as has footage they legally can request it taken down) as a way to get rid of the videos.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,475
United States
on one hand I totally hate homebrew, not cause of homebrew itself but cause the linked results that people try to sweep under the rug.

that said, this is totally an opening the pandora box scenario, where Nintendo abused the DMCA (as long as has footage they legally can request it taken down) as a way to get rid of the videos.
It isn't abuse. One of the provisions of the DMCA is that you can have information about circumventing copyright protection removed.

17 U.S. Code § 1201

(2)No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that—

(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;

(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or

(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person’s knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201


There's very narrow exemptions, but Youtube/Google aren't gonna care because they're free to have a more strict interpretation than the law itself since it's their servers. If people want to fix this, the DMCA itself has to be repealed.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,503
Providing a step by step process on youtube to jailbreak switch? I would try to get rid of this stuff when i would be in ninty position aswell. The right tool? No but still. Most (yes theres a minority using it differently i have to admit) people would use it for roms and pirated stuff anyways. And all in all the internet is full of step by step written tutorials. This guy was making money with YT videos like this. It was just a matter of time until ninty strikes.
There’s nothing illegal about homebrew. It’s not just you but a lot of people in this thread seem to be under the assumption that a company has any right to say how you use a device you own.

If someone were to make a video explaining how to use a screwdriver as a weapon, Craftsman can’t remove the video because they’re worried you may you use it rob a bank. You’re well within your rights to use the screwdriver as a weapon, just not for illegal purposes. It’s possible that using the screwdriver as a weapon is inherently linked to using it to rob a bank, but that’s not up for Craftsman to decide.

There really is no precedents for this. You’ll find hundreds of iOS jailbreak videos on YouTube over the last decade because has no right to remove them.
 
Mar 15, 2019
103
One of the provisions of the DMCA is that you can have information about circumventing copyright protection removed.
Does YouTube allow you to file copyright claims for these reasons? Because the claims shown in the video are all for the footage of Nintendo games that is shown (and one of the claims was for Splatoon 2 footage that wasn't even present apparently).
 
Oct 30, 2017
549
Tokyo, Japan
Gave him a chance but stopped watching the video after he stated “I have original copies of all these games so the argument that I can’t emulate them is null and void.”

He should at least research the law surrounding emulation. Not only must you own the software but you must also create an original copy of it to run it.

Sorry guy.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,575
on one hand I totally hate homebrew, not cause of homebrew itself but cause the linked results that people try to sweep under the rug
What results? Like people learning about technology, and taking their first steps towards a career in that field? I promise you that most of the companies you support and look up to employs skilled employees who spent a lot of time modding and hacking consoles into doing things they were never meant to do.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,503
Gave him a chance but stopped watching the video after he stated “I have original copies of all these games so the argument that I can’t emulate them is null and void.”

He should at least research the law surrounding emulation. Not only must you own the software but you must also create an original copy of it to run it.

Sorry guy.
At the end of the day is that really why the videos got taken down? That seems to be completely irrelevant to me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
50
Gave him a chance but stopped watching the video after he stated “I have original copies of all these games so the argument that I can’t emulate them is null and void.”

He should at least research the law surrounding emulation. Not only must you own the software but you must also create an original copy of it to run it.

Sorry guy.
damn how is he gonna wake up tomorrow knowing he got owned that hard
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,000
It never seize to amaze me how many people defend a violation of a console's TOS when it comes to homebrew, let along publishing the method.

DMCA is just a quick way to take down such instruction.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,475
United States
Does YouTube allow you to file copyright claims for these reasons? Because the claims shown in the video are all for the footage of Nintendo games that is shown (and one of the claims was for Splatoon 2 footage that wasn't even present apparently).
Gameplay footage is technically not protected and is a derivative work at best as far as copyright is currently concerned, so YouTube allows them to be claimed, because Youtube errs on the side of still being considered to have "safe harbour" protections under copyright law.

Nobody's been willing to legally test fair use as it'd have to be done in an actual court case, or have a law passed by congress specifically naming such use as protected, because any lawyer would say "don't gamble and just take the DMCA get-out-of-jail-free card".

The vast majority of use of game footage is left alone simply because most companies are fine leaving it alone, because you're not required to actively defend your copyright.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,762
You guys really standing up for piracy just because Nintendo is a big corporation...?
Some of you guys get so sensitive when it comes to homebrew discussion and Nintendo, at least don't make it so obvious. Countless threads we've had and people have been banned before for equating homebrew to piracy just like you did. Don't stand up for a company this hard, they don't have a position open for you.
 
Feb 6, 2019
174
What results? Like people learning about technology, and taking their first steps towards a career in that field? I promise you that most of the companies you support and look up to employs skilled employees who spent a lot of time modding and hacking consoles into doing things they were never meant to do.
you know what "result" im talking about. been mentioned enough already in the thread
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,351
It never seize to amaze me how many people defend a violation of a console's TOS when it comes to homebrew, let along publishing the method.

DMCA is just a quick way to take down such instruction.

Oh no not a violation of a terms of service agreement. Where is my fainting couch?!
 
Jul 14, 2018
1,780
It never seize to amaze me how many people defend a violation of a console's TOS when it comes to homebrew, let along publishing the method.

DMCA is just a quick way to take down such instruction.
Because who gives a shit? Like do you really think anyone outside of the few weirdos here really care about TOS's?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,958
It never seize to amaze me how many people defend a violation of a console's TOS when it comes to homebrew, let along publishing the method.

DMCA is just a quick way to take down such instruction.
If you want to be such a stickler for rules, this is an improper use of DMCA. Also, TOS are often unenforceable legally. You own the device, and in many countries you can do whatever you want to it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,364
There’s nothing illegal about homebrew. It’s not just you but a lot of people in this thread seem to be under the assumption that a company has any right to say how you use a device you own.

If someone were to make a video explaining how to use a screwdriver as a weapon, Craftsman can’t remove the video because they’re worried you may you use it rob a bank. You’re well within your rights to use the screwdriver as a weapon, just not for illegal purposes. It’s possible that using the screwdriver as a weapon is inherently linked to using it to rob a bank, but that’s not up for Craftsman to decide.

There really is no precedents for this. You’ll find hundreds of iOS jailbreak videos on YouTube over the last decade because has no right to remove them.
This. ^

Nintendo sells products. Potential homebrew is a huge selling point for me in terms of the Switch, one of their products. I'm buying their console, not licensing it. What Nintendo should realize is that people are homebrewing their consoles in order to fill a demand which Nintendo is not providing. If the potential piracy is cutting into Nintendo's profits, then it is up to them to adjust their business plan and/or copyright protection software accordingly - going after individual Youtube channel after individual Youtube channel is never a good look. Remember when they had a hard-on for taking down reviews with footage of their games, how about screwing over Sony, or their shady business tactics during the NES years? Nintendo have always been vicious in terms of business.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,503
It never seize to amaze me how many people defend a violation of a console's TOS when it comes to homebrew, let along publishing the method.

DMCA is just a quick way to take down such instruction.
“How dare someone break Nintendo’s rules! Nintendo should break the rules of the internet to punish them.”
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,640
Good god, the corporate defense force. Chill with your concerns, any hacked Switch that goes online is instantly banned.

MVG has been around since the times of the first Xbox. Back then he was a superstar in the scene because he made quite a few breakthroughs, like the use of virtual memory in emulators and other programs. He's more or less retired but still does things from time to time. For the Switch he ported Cannonball (which is a better effort at preservating Outrun than M2's Ages version), the first Postal and a few more.

All of what he was doing was posting videos every 1~2 months to inform people about the state of homebrew in the Switch.

I guess that now that all Nintendo systems prior to the Game Cube work fine and PSP emulation is starting to take form, Nintendo is scared of losing customers from their pitiful online service.
 
Oct 25, 2017
291
Next I’m gonna show you how to shoplift from Walmart, don’t actually do this but I’m just showing how you could do it (don’t forget to like, follow, and subscribe!)
 
Oct 27, 2017
238
florida
This is one spicy hot take.
Is it though? I mean, you really gonna sit here and say most of all homebrews on a console (especially a handheld like the switch) aren't used for illegally using Rom's? I'm legitimately asking this, what other reason do the *majority* of people who have their gaming devices use it for?

I'm not trying to make the few that use it without stealing feel like their doing something wrong, but let's not kid ourselves.
 
If it's their content, they can take it down. Shitty, but that's the way it is. Fair Use is a doctrine that is mainly for U.S. with some similar legislation around the world. In many EU countries Fair Use doesn't exist as such. YouTube videos are global and can be subject to hundreds of different laws. If looking at it from purely U.S. point of view there are 4 questions that must be looked as per the legislation:


  1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
  2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
  3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
  4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
Now this kind of videos would need to be taken to a court to get a definitive view, but if the video is monetized, it's more than likely it's not fair use. The second question in these cases would be irrelevant and in this case the third point, the use of copyrighted work is limited. Nintendo could argue in courts that showing how to circumvent the copyright protection of their devices would affect negatively their ability to exploit their own market. While Homebrew is perfectly legal and a great thing, the side effect is that some bad eggs use the homebrew community to enable pirate copies of games. Leaving works like this online could therefore potentially harm Nintendo's ability to exploit their own market. The burden of proof lies on Nintendo though.
In summarum; Fair Use doctrine is not clearly cut for either way. The copyright laws around the world include anti-circumvention laws so those might be taken into consideration as well.

Note: I am a Civil Law lawyer, not Common Law lawyer, so any U.S. lawyer can correct me on this.

Shame though, as homebrew usually enables great things.
 
Oct 28, 2017
561
Automatically makes it worth it, in my opinion. Homebrew is homebrew, but every homebrewer is a potential cheater in online games, or a pirate. Homebrew, even if started with non-harmful intentions, is always the first step here, that's why fighting the harmful-intentions kind almost always leads to shutting down homebrew in general.
Oh. You’re one of those people.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,395
They have all their right to do it. I think it's good.
i agree with this. for me living in a market that's not very big for nintendo, hacking and hombrew and what they lead to have made my life miserable when it comes to getting physical switch games, cuz pretty much everyone hacked their switch and shops no longer import switch games so i have to rely on online importers and spend way more. i hope hacking and homebrew gets stopped as much as it can on current hardware and becomes completely impossible on the revisions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,081
Is it though? I mean, you really gonna sit here and say most of all homebrews on a console (especially a handheld like the switch) aren't used for illegally using Rom's? I'm legitimately asking this, what other reason do the *majority* of people who have their gaming devices use it for?

I'm not trying to make the few that use it without stealing feel like their doing something wrong, but let's not kid ourselves.
I mean Im gonna sit here and do what? Its against ResetEra's TOS to say Homebrew = Piracy, I don't need to *do* anything.
 

NoblesseOblige

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,239
hacking and hombrew and what they lead to have made my life miserable when it comes to getting physical switch games, cuz pretty much everyone hacked their switch and shops no longer import switch games
how can you even begin to prove this assertion? Sounds like you're pulling shit out your ass
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,081
i agree with this. for me living in a market that's not very big for nintendo, hacking and hombrew and what they lead to have made my life miserable when it comes to getting physical switch games, cuz pretty much everyone hacked their switch and shops no longer import switch games so i have to rely on online importers and spend way more. i hope hacking and homebrew gets stopped as much as it can on current hardware and becomes completely impossible on the revisions.


I would love to see some evidence of this.
 
Nov 4, 2017
2,141
Doing Homebrew tutorials on YouTube should never, ever fall under copyright laws.
If the Youtubers would fight it, pretty sure they would win.

As far as the "Piracy" part is concerned.... Yeah, a tutorial on how to setup a SX OS dongle, download roms and launch them, maybe shouldn't be on Youtube bc it promotes "illegal activity".

But homebrew?! LOL
I get what you Nintendo fans are saying and I also don't buy the "I just want to run Linux to play DOOM" defense in most cases.That said, it shouldn't be "guilty until proven innocent".

People bought the device and get modify in any way they want, as long as they don't pirate. Nintendo has no right to force people to use said device ONLY in the way Nintendo likes it.
Doing homebrew means your console is banned from online gaming and the eShop anyways, so it's not like they are hurting anyone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
291
User warned: continued derail over multiple posts
shoplifting is an actual crime. modifying your property is not. try again.
I’m not shoplifting, I’m just showing people how to shoplift. Just like how the video shows you how to pirate games, but he actually made those games himself. Totally legal
 
Dec 13, 2017
4,311
How is it an abuse if its legally in their rights?
It's not though. I'd want to see a cite that says it is.

Is it tho? DMCA according to Wikipedia:

"It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself."https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act
That would be fine, if that is what Nintendo did.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2018-10-26/pdf/2018-23241.pdf

Section III, A, 4

There's been exemptions on access control cases but I'm not sure where they stand now
It is in the 2018 exemptions.
 
Oct 27, 2017
770
clear abuse of power by Nintendo,
his videos were about modding the switch and running homebrew software, mostly ports of open source software,

he paid for the hardware and was running software that nintendo didn't make basically, Nintendo should not hold the power to so easily block a video like this, the system that allows this is broken.

if you actually watch his videos you will see that his focus was never on running pirated Switch games, he is a guy that ported games and emulators since the OG Xbox days, that is his thing, homebrew ports on hacked consoles.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,061
Is it? Why? As I stated I was legitimately asking, what are the reasons to homebrew?
For me:

It allows me to emulate games I legally own, it allows me to make multiple back up saves, it allows me to customize the UI for my own personal tastes, it allows me to mod games to add features like same sex relationships in games like Fire Emblem or more characters for Smash.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,395
how can you even begin to prove this assertion? Sounds like you're pulling shit out your ass
I would love to see some evidence of this.
i have talked about it many times in the past. you're welcome to come to iran and go to a shop and buy me any of the recently released switch games from game shops (that sell all the latest ps4 games, btw), i'd pay you twice as much as you paid for it. before the hacking, all the shops imported several copies of the big games. now even if you go ask for something they'd look at you like you're crazy and ask why you haven't hacked your switch. piracy, when possible, is the norm in third party countries. perhaps you guys are living in markets where piracy is not legal so people have to do it on the down low, but here where no one gives a fuck, it lead to switch physical games pretty much being impossible to get without going through a bunch of extra hassle.
some posts i've made in the past about it:

well i know it. most stores used to import games in good amounts and they were easy to find, now you have to place orders for them to import a game for you, or use online stores that import 2-5 copies of games at a time for the small number of people remaining that haven't hacked their system yet.
now all you find is second hand copies of odyssey and botw cuz the people who had them don't need them anymore, shops offer to hack your system just as you buy it, and fill a memory card with all the games you want.
i was in a telegram group with people who sold and bought second hand games, but about a month ago most of them hacked their systems and now there's only like 5 of us left who are actually looking for physical copies of games.
to be clear, i live in a third world country where piracy is the norm (if it can be done), so there never was a market for ps2 or 360 games. i was hoping i'd be able to easily find switch games but now it's very hard unless you're willing to pay a lot more. in contrast, shops sell huge amounts of ps4 games and there's a big market for them still.
yeah probably
it's just so fucked up, when i bought my switch around 6 months ago you could walk into any game shop and browse their selection of new and used switch games, sold at reasonable prices. now they look at you like you're crazy when you ask around for switch games, telling me why haven't i hacked mine yet or if i just have money to burn. all that's left for me is ordering from online importers which ask way more than what a game is worth.
this happens to me all the time. like we had a group to exchange games and stuff before they all hacked their systems, and now they all think i'm crazy or i'm just swimming in money since i haven't hacked mine, and i can't even bring up anything about legit games or eshop sales or stuff like that without them telling me "just hack it already". and whenever i go to shops to see if they got any used switch games and stuff (which they almost never do) they all look at me like crazy and ask why i haven't hacked yet. it's become so ubiquitous here that i feel like i have to explain myself why i haven't chosen to hack and pirate games yet. it's so stupid.
 
Oct 25, 2017
291
shoplifting is an actual crime. modifying your property is not. try again.
I set up my own store inside my house with items that I bought, then I showed people how to take them off the shelf and out of my house. Now this is all completely legal because I own all the items in the store. I trust that viewers will set up their own store to shoplift from and not shoplift from Walmart