You was saying Nipsey has no talent.
If you wanna half ass bein a white nationalist instead of a White Supremacist

At least, recongize your bitch ass would have nevr survived on the mean streets o South Central L.A.

The stupid really can’t be fixed.

Never a block of marble and a point chisel around when I really need them.

The only topic worse than fitness for unsolicited and unnecessary advice

This thread is about advice; you complained about a specific problem (gym equipment you worried about being a hazard to children) and blew up at anybody who commented on it. This is the internet, so that’s about par for the course.

No apology is necessary as nothing else was really expected anyway.

The problem is that doctors won’t prescribe them because many are arrogant, pitiless know-it-alls like you.

That’s it.

The stupid really can’t be fixed.

Thanks for elaborating. I think part of the difference is how Anglicized the different groups of Indians are.

I find the way the newer Indians operate on perceived respective status to be incredibly annoying. There is a serious at your feet or at your throat aspect which is distasteful and it seems to be morphing into just seeing all Americans as inferior which manifests in the behavior you describe. They treat people they perceive to be inferior in status like dirt.

How much of that is caste dynamics being replicated here? Do Brahmins have more noblesse oblige?

P.S. The ian-yan connection you make in your earlier comment is a good comparison.

Anon, sorry for the cranky post, but really, what’s it to you if I go to the gym?

The only topic worse than fitness for unsolicited and unnecessary advice is certainly parenting.

I’m not your personal trainer or nutritionist, so I have no detailed knowledge of whatever important factors exist in your case.

But out, then. Whether I work out at home or at the gym is none of your concern.

Women of more active generations weren’t usually weightlifters.

How do you know? Have you ever worked on a farm?

Weight-lifting is great for women, because if you fall off the wagon and gain a few pounds, at least some of it is muscle mass, and when you lose five pounds come hiking season, you look better than ever.

Women of more active generations weren’t usually weightlifters.

I’m not your personal trainer or nutritionist, so I have no detailed knowledge of whatever important factors exist in your case.

Nevertheless I have a hard time believing that you require, for basic fitness, heavier weights or other sorts of equipment than, say, your own body weight, or (depending on your exercise regimen) other kinds of equipment that would be significantly more dangerous around children than normal household items.

You may have already done so, but it might not be a bad idea to look into alternatives to whatever it is you’re currently doing.

Interesting, thanks, and very unfortunate.

I’ve generally heard that Sri Lankans consider Indians, again generally speaking, rude as well, but one would expect a great deal of variation based on class and other factors. It does sound like the older immigrants were better assimilated.

Also, the medical industry presents us with many more problems than just the doctors.

Indeed, like insurance companies who won’t pay for anti-obesity drugs, since it is Medicare and not them who will pay for the long-term consequences of obesity.

This whole debate reminds me of Leftist “anti-racism.” My plan would work if everyone would just, you know, find a way to overcome millions of years of mammalian evolution and do as I say. Everyone needs someone to shake their fist at, I suppose.

The problem is that doctors won’t prescribe them because many are arrogant, pitiless know-it-alls like you.

If we step back and remove the personal, it’s pretty good to have someone around who knows everything. 🙂

Also, the medical industry presents us with many more problems than just the doctors.

Trust me when I say this – researchers and drug companies are desperately trying to come up with an efficacious weight-reduction drug without serious side effects, because there are many people who crave easy solutions as you do. There is a lot of money to be made, to be mild about it.

As usual, you’ve got it 100% wrong. There already are efficacious weight loss drugs, as you would know if you would read more and type less. The problem is that doctors won’t prescribe them because many are arrogant, pitiless know-it-alls like you.

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/diet-drugs-work-why-wont-doctors-prescribe-them

Out of curiosity, how do the new Indians behave?

There is much to say, but what bothers me the most is that many display little concerns toward communal interests and obligations and often treat tradesmen/manual laborers with contempt.

For example, a group of them came to the HOA meeting in a development where I own some rental property and declared that they would not pay the HOA fees, because they don’t use any services. After some argument (“You do use the services such as trash collection” etc.), they then demanded a significant reduction in the HOA fees, because they didn’t use the swimming pool, the club house, and the tennis court, etc. After they were explained the concept of a HOA and commonly-owned property and its maintenance (and the penalties for failing to pay the fees) they tried to haggle at length and had to be told to stop so the rest of the HOA agenda could be discussed.

I am also friends with the guy who owns the HVAC company that works on my properties and the manager of the landscaping company with which I contract (both hunting buddies), and they uniformly loathe their Indian customers, because they try to haggle down every little thing and often demand free services or try to get out of paying contracted fees for services rendered. And these customers are contemptuous of their employees and even the owners and the account managers and talk down to the latter even as they display zero knowledge of HVAC systems or lawn maintenance (e.g. refusing to irrigate and then blaming the landscaping company for killing the lawn after a drought or never changing the furnace filter and then demanding free repair, etc.).

My wife has become extremely anti-Indian of late, because they and their children show up in large numbers to local businesses and monopolize staff and service time with little regard for other customers (they and their children frequently cut lines) and because they often behave in an uncouth manner such as letting the door slam on her face or nearly running over my children with shopping carts with nary an “Excuse me.”

I could go on and on with example after example. Just the other day I had some friends over for Easter and, when the subject of Indians came up, everyone just groaned painfully. Anyone who’s been in the area for more than ten years can see the dramatic cultural transformation as some neighborhoods that were previously around 90% white + 10% East and SE Asian (the big Asian groups were Koreans and Vietnamese) have gone 70+% Indian due to the massive growth of IT.

No, Phentermine isn’t addictive as meth, but it stimulates the central nervous system similarly and can likewise create heart problems including high blood pressure and palpitations.

Trust me when I say this – researchers and drug companies are desperately trying to come up with an efficacious weight-reduction drug without serious side effects, because there are many people who crave easy solutions as you do. There is a lot of money to be made, to be mild about it.

So far, no free lunch though.

The mass use of Hiropon/meth created a large addict population and the attendant social-criminal problems in Japan, and so its manufacture and distribution were subsequently banned.

Fortunately, Rx obesity drugs do not seem to have this effect.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23736363

The trouble with you “OMG it’s meth” argument is that it fails to take account of the radical difference in strength between the two. Drinking a glass of wine with dinner is quite different from downing a fifth of vodka.

Out of curiosity, how do the new Indians behave? (Other than around dogs, of course.)

I have an interest in the answer to this question, being of partial Ceylonese descent myself.

People there are often rather partial to dogs, incidentally:

Pharmaceuticals may be the only solution, at least until the Fourth Reich comes along

Funny you should mention the Reich: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_and_culture_of_substituted_amphetamines#Military_use

As early as 1919, Akira Ogata synthesized methamphetamine via reduction of ephedrine using red phosphorus and iodine. Later, the chemists Hauschild and Dobke from the German pharmaceutical company Temmler developed an easier method for converting ephedrine to methamphetamine. As a result, it was possible for Temmler to market it on a large scale as a nonprescription drug under the trade name Pervitin (methamphetamine hydrochloride). It was not until 1986 that Pervitin became a controlled substance, requiring a special prescription to obtain.[41] Pervitin was commonly used by the German and Finnish militaries.[40][42] Adolf Hitler is said to have begun using amphetamine occasionally after 1937, and to have become addicted to it in late 1942;[43] Albert Speer claimed that this use of amphetamine caused Hitler to have increasingly erratic behavior and inflexible decision making (for example, rarely allowing military retreats).[43]

It was widely distributed across German military ranks and divisions, from elite forces to tank crews and aircraft personnel, with many millions of tablets being distributed throughout the war for its performance-enhancing stimulant effects and to induce extended wakefulness.[44] Its use by German Tank (Panzer) crews also led to it being known as Panzerschokolade (“Tank-Chocolates”).[45] It was also colloquially known among German Luftwaffe pilots as Stuka-Tabletten (“Stuka-Tablets”) and Hermann-Göring-Pillen (“Herman-Göring-Pills”).[42] More than 35 million three-milligram doses of Pervitin were manufactured for the German army and air force between April and July 1940.[46] From 1942 until his death in 1945, Adolf Hitler was given intravenous injections of methamphetamine by his personal physician Theodor Morell.[citation needed] In Japan, methamphetamine was sold under the registered trademark of Philopon by Dainippon Pharmaceuticals (present-day Dainippon Sumitomo Pharma [DSP]) for civilian and military use.[47] It has been estimated that one billion Phiporon pills were produced between 1939 and 1945.[47] As with the rest of the world at the time, the side effects of methamphetamine were not well studied, and regulation was not seen as necessary. In the 1940s and 1950s, the drug was widely administered to Japanese industrial workers to increase their productivity.[48] In Finland, Pervitin was colloquially known as höökipulveri (“pep powder”).[citation needed] Its use was essentially restricted to special forces, especially to long-range commandos.

The mass use of Hiropon/meth created a large addict population and the attendant social-criminal problems in Japan, and so its manufacture and distribution were subsequently banned.

Do you include provocation in your threshold?

Certainly.

I tend to agree with my insurance company, USAA, which does not have breed bans for its home owner’s insurance, but looks at the history of the individual dogs in question.

The way everyone acted in that difficult situation is the world I want to live in.

Yes, indeed. And I do live in such a world, more or less, though the dramatically increased movement of Indian immigrants into the area is starting to take a civic and quality of life toll. It’s gotten to a point that the older Indian immigrants I know – those who came decades ago as doctors, long before the current tech-oriented wave – are starting to become quite critical of the behaviors and tendencies of the new wave.

I suppose it is somewhat akin to Steve Sailer’s construct of the older pre-Soviet Armenian immigrants (“-ians”) who have assimilated well vs. the new post-Soviet arrivals (“-yans”) who are much more gold-chain-y and gangster-ish.

but a visionary who was tripped up by a devastating act of God in the form of a plague!

In case the reference to the Jacques-Louis David’s “Date obolum bellisario” isn’t clear, I think poorly of Justinian. I think he was a vain and jealous man who threw away an empire and was unworthy of those who built it for him.

I suppose you are just being provacative.

Not at all. I’m being very serious.

In the evolutionary environment, our ancestors had to survive some very lean times during which they didn’t have much to eat, but then didn’t have much to do, either. Nowadays, we work year-round with no let up, and we can’t really function when we’re hungry. Pharmaceuticals may be the only solution, at least until the Fourth Reich comes along and introduces majo9changes in the way we live, work, and play.

“Dieting saps the will. Everyone who has tried it knows this. Bottom line:

No anorexia without anorectics!”

Laugh.

I suppose you are just being provacative. Sugar provides a boost.

But over the long term, depending on the kinds of sugars and other processed carbs over the long term, it is probably detrimental. i still have cravings for sugar. But there are ways to manage even that. This week, I am going to shift my exercise routine down further three time a week 20 minutes cutting my times in half. It’s been hard to shift down. But I have to think long term — what will keeping my weight under control mean in five years, ten, twenty. It is doubtful that I intend to keep even the pacing I have now which is far less than it was a month ago, six months ago and far less than a year ago.

I grant that genetics makes each person’s exercise and diet different to maintain a healthy posture. And even even to some extent what constitutes a healthy diet. But I think the evidence is in — carbohydrates as they have been distributed over the last fifty to sixty years has contributed some negative effect on body and mind.

Genetics is not only a determinent, it is a responder, in my view and chemically can be altered to some extent. I guess I am saying that one can train certain aspects of DNA. Overcoming twenty or thirty years of habit is another story. I buy the sugar/gluten/sucrose addiction theory.

As a nation, I think we need to change our minds about foods.

One wonders if men are less understanding of obesity than women because of sex differences in sensitivity to hunger hormones.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5433916/

See “Twinkie” in reply to the original comment. You don’t need heavy weights to stay fit.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I certainly do. The more muscle mass a woman has, the easier it is to avoid fat gain. I’m not talking about looking like Mister Universe, either. I’m just talking about being strong and athletic like women of more active generations probably were.

Well of course. But I’m talking about a running average here.

One thing I’ve learned from my own experience, though, is that those splurges come a lot less often when you get your appetite under control. It no longer feels like a sense of denial. You go to a restaurant or a big family dinner (like Easter) and you feel full on a lot less.

From my own personal exprience, though, losing weight “quickly” (by that I mean about 2 pounds a week) was more satisfying than doing so over the long haul would have been. It’s not because I wanted to diet and get it over with, but because of how satisfying it was to notice the change in the way I felt, both physically and mentally. If it had taken me a year to lose 20 pounds the change would not have been so obvious. Of course after that you still have to settle in for the long haul by sticking with the behavioral changes you’ve made.

Dieting saps the will. Everyone who has tried it knows this. Bottom line:

No anorexia without anorectics!

If I credibly promised to pay you $1 million if you shaved 20 pounds off in three months, would you be able to do it? If the answer is yes (and it is), it is ultimately a question of will (which I understand is at least to some extent genetic just like everything else is).

Genetic weight differences cannot be assumed to come down merely to genetic differences in willpower unless you assume that everyone’s metabolism and hormone sensitivity are identical. We have no evidence for this assertion.

If someone paid me a million dollars to stay trim, I could no doubt manage it. Indeed, that is precisely what Hollywood starlets are paid to do: conform to an exceedingly demanding beauty standard. They don’t have to worry about anything else. Someone else cooks and cleans for them and takes care of their kids for them, if they have any. They are free to spend hours a day in the gym, etc.

The classic cookie vs. radish experiment is instructive here. Whether the radish eaters performed worse on the puzzle task because they were suffering “ego depletion,” were low on blood sugar, or any other reason ultimately doesn’t matter. The fact remains that the cookie eaters did better on the puzzle than the radish eaters, and here in the real world, people have responsibilities above and beyond just sitting around and looking pretty.

https://phoboscience.com/self-control-a-limited-resource-muscle-analogy/

(Edit: the puzzle was unsolvable. Cookie eaters worked harder on it than radish eaters.)

the best majority

Is there a worst majority?

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

See “Twinkie” in reply to the original comment. You don’t need heavy weights to stay fit. Most of what you might reasonably consider using is perfectly safe around children; a yoga mat, for instance, though even it is hardly a necessity even for yoga.

Other advice on this thread is good: find something fun, and do that. Some good examples were given so I’ll not repeat them.

The bread is the issue in both of these meals.

I think I called my drinks biogenetic — uhh yah. No.

Probiotic water. Excuse the error

What you say is true. Most people can cut the calories for a few days by 100, but then there is that day with the ice cream or spaghetti with lots of garlic bread and the extra 400 calories wipe out the four days with a deficit of 100 each.

Healthy food isn’t that expensive. Fresh produce isn’t really that expensive. You can buy high quality frozen vegetables in bulk almost anywhere.

Losing weight is as simple as front-loading your daily meals with low-calories vegetables and lean protein sources like fish and chicken. And count your calories. Don’t make assumptions about the total calories you eat. If you weigh yourself everyday and keep a record or your weight you will never allow your weight to get out of hand.

For most people getting fat is just simple math. If you have a calorie surplus of, on average, 100 calories a day, then you will put on 10 pounds in a year. 200 extra calories a day = 20 pounds a year, 300 extra calories a day = 30 pounds a year. It’s very, very easy to eat 100, 200, and even 300 calories more than your body needs each day.

The flip side of that is that all you have to do to lose 20 pounds in a year is have a calorie deficit of 200 calories a day. That’s about one less soda a day, or a few cookies. A 30 minute walk everyday will do the trick.

As for my threshold, I’d put down a dog that showed little to no sign or gave a warning and just attacked. It’s not impossible, but it’s very hard to re-train a dog that has unpredictable aggression. There are people who can handle a dog like that, but I am not one of them.

Do you include provocation in your threshold? I was bitten a long time ago by a friend’s pit bull (a sweet dog I knew well). There was both provocation (I was acting aggressively near the dog’s owner, not directed at the owner, but the dog does not know that) and warning (a leaping snap near me, which I failed to interpret correctly). The dog bit my bare leg (hard, hurt and left a scar, but not a tearing bite) and held, but released on a commanding no from me (and even looked sheepish afterwards). Happily I did not even need a doctor visit (probably part of why it scarred). Just put antiseptic then a dressing on it and went about my day (which was quite active).

That was well within my threshold (not even a question in my mind). The interesting thing is the dog’s owner and I had had a conversation about whether or not it was appropriate to put a biting dog down regardless of circumstances not long before that with the owner taking a stronger stance on that topic than me. That view changed a bit under those particular circumstances ; )

P.S. Thanks for your story. The way everyone acted in that difficult situation is the world I want to live in.

Relatedly, is “lab mix” anything more than a euphemism for “at least substantially pit bull”?

Labs are popular and there are lots of lab mixes. I’m sure it’s often used as a euphemism, but there is also plausible deniability.

A print of this sits on the wall of my home library:

Yes, it was a dog I took from a shelter. I got careless, ignored the signs, and paid the price – when you get too cocky, God let’s you know and gives you nice, permanent reminder. 🙂

That dog was trained to a very high degree and became a great companion to my children. Led a very long and happy life and died a few years ago. In this particular case, I kept the dog, because I knew I screwed up. It’d be a different story, though, if the victim, as such, had been someone else.

None of my dogs has ever bitten any person outside the family (plenty of dog fights, though) except once. My wife was running with a dog (the one that followed her around and guarded her during pregnancy) when a teenage boy darted out of his house and almost knocked my wife down. That dog leapt into the boy, bit down on him, and held him down. To his credit and safety, the boy didn’t go berserk, but just yelled out, “Please, please, tell him to let me go!”

The boy’s mother was understandably extremely upset at first, but we explained the situation, apologized profusely, and of course offered to pay for any medical costs. At a very calm and cordial meeting afterwards, the parents admonished the boy for running into my wife, told him to apologize to her, and simply asked us for the vaccination information (which we brought). Even though we insisted, they didn’t even let us pay for the ER bill. The mother told us, “We have a dog too. If someone ran into me like that, I am sure my dog would have jumped on the person too.”

Thank God they were good people.

As for my threshold, I’d put down a dog that showed little to no sign or gave a warning and just attacked. It’s not impossible, but it’s very hard to re-train a dog that has unpredictable aggression. There are people who can handle a dog like that, but I am not one of them.

And, yes, I’ve been bitten. I still have a large canine dental impression on one of my legs. That hurt and bled a good while, and I had to be on antibiotics for a full course. Unfortunately, my wife has been bitten more times than I have.

Were these your dogs? Did you have the dogs responsible put to sleep? On the assumption that this wasn’t a zero tolerance thing, what was your threshold?

Have you ever gotten one of these breeds from the shelter

No, I have not.

But I have had large dogs with intense dog aggression. I’ve broken up more than a few dog fights. It’s one of the first things I learned about dog handling. And it’s one of the first things I taught my wife and kids (my older kids still have a memory of scampering away from a really bad dog fight that happened when they were little – right in front of the dog food bowls).

And, yes, I’ve been bitten. I still have a large canine dental impression on one of my legs. That hurt and bled a good while, and I had to be on antibiotics for a full course. Unfortunately, my wife has been bitten more times than I have.

I also saw a teenage dog handling girl get half her face bitten off by a boxer that displayed zero sign of human aggression before right in front of my eyes, and my wife and I administered first aid on her until the paramedics arrived. That was pretty horrific.

I still miss that dog dearly. He was a shelter dog and accompanied our coast-to-coast moves twice.

Pit bulls have a bad reputation, along with a number of other dog breeds bred for fighting. Have you ever gotten one of these breeds from the shelter, and did you have extra trouble getting them to adjust to your rules for the dogs in your household?

Huh? My dog succumbs to temptation all the time. That I’m occasionally able to avoid doing so is what makes me human!

One of my dogs – long dead now – would refuse treats from strangers. He’d only take food from my wife and me. We used to joke that he had better impulse-control than most people.

I still miss that dog dearly. He was a shelter dog and accompanied our coast-to-coast moves twice. Whenever my wife was pregnant, he’d follow her around and never allow any man but me to get close to her.

Uncanny.

Try getting fat on the natural human diet based on fresh meat and vegetables. It’s nearly impossible.

Yup. Now substitute fresh fish for that meat and it’s doubly hard getting fat from it.

We eat lots of fish in the Twinkie household. My children grew up on them since they were babies, so they are comfort food for them. The only hiccup is having to avoid (very tasty) apex predator fish that have high mercury content.

I’m 6’2” and my wife told me it’s tall without being gangly or freakishly tall. I still don’t do well in small airplanes though.

My wife is 5’9” and that’s what I always thought about her height – just right.

Sometimes even courtesans can do a lot of good in your court!

Please, Empress Theodora was a dancer, not a prostitute! 😉

I’m good where I am, but yeah I’d say a man who is 6’1″-2″ gets the best of being tall without some of the more bothersome attributes.

The stock size could also be to accommodate female soldiers – I don’t know. The median Ashkenazi in the US seems about my size (5-9 barefoot). Just a guesstimate. I’ve never been to Israel, so have no idea about the other half of the country.

A little off topic, but I’ve always been amazed at the broad height curve of A. Jews considering how genetically uniform we are. Just looking at the past couple of offices where I’ve worked, I’ve seen Jewish men from 5-2 to 6-3. I mean, Robert Reich is 4-11 and NFL offensive lineman Mitchell Schwartz is 6-5. There’s also Paul Simon (5-3) and Jeff Goldblum (6-4) and on and on. My guess would be that mixed-race groups may sometimes have greater phenotype variation with less genetic diversity (as opposed to Pygmies, where you have great genetic diversity but little phenotype variation – at least in regards to height).

Living in SF it’s not unusual to see some tall Asians. Considering some Northern Chinese provinces are already averaging 5-9.5, my guess would be that they have similar genetic height potential to Northern Europe (5-11-ish if raised on a rich diet). I even see some tall Jungle Asians. I know a Filipino guy here that’s conservatively 6-1 (though I don’t know if I’ve ever met a Jungle Asian over 6-2, which is not that tall for Whites).

All they want is attention.

I think that you would be hard pressed to prove that women want more attention than men. Well, not you, but maybe you could hire someone to work on it.

Jews tend to be a little shorter (maybe an inch or so?) but there are also many tall ones.

When Israel adapted a South African rifle for their own use and turned it into Galil, they had to reduce the stock size substantially, because of the size disparity. I used to think, “Really? How much smaller could they be?”

Then I was in Israel and witnessed the IDF swearing-in ceremony at the Wailing Wall. Those young Israeli draftees were tiny! They looked like our middle schoolers!

I was surprised. I expected them to be taller than, say, South Korean draftees, but they weren’t. They were shorter (and yet the stats in Wikipedia say that the average Israeli male – ages 18-21 – height is 5’9.5” and that for South Korea 5’ 8.5”).

Meant to add: When you introduce the Western diet it obviously affects both groups and individuals differently, similar to smoking or anything else.

You can make this pretty complicated, but it doesn’t need to be. Weight is a perfect example of a genotype-by-environment interaction, much like smoking. In the absence of smoking certain lung cancers would be extremely rare. Make everyone smoke, and some people will be mostly unaffected while a significant proportion of the population will get lung cancer and other diseases. When everyone smokes, these differences in outcome are primarily genetic.

In our natural environment, humans are naturally thin. All of us (about <16% body fat for men 30% body fat). Even the Eskimos – the fattest of all hunter-gatherers – are relatively lean in their natural environment.

Half my family is fat and I was a chubby child. If left to my own devices I would easily be <30% body fat. Intermittent fasting plus avoiding carbs makes it relatively easy for me to stay <20% body fat while driving a desk, so I imagine it would work for most. On a genetic scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being naturally skinny and 0 being 600 pounds, I'm probably a 3.

Most of it is simply diet. Try getting fat on the natural human diet based on fresh meat and vegetables. It's nearly impossible. Take out all the crap and carbs (bread, pasta, potatoes, cookies etc) and try getting, or staying, fat on only vegetables and fresh meat. Add intermittent fasting and pretty much anyone can get reasonably lean, just like we all were 10,000 years ago.

Probably partially true, but there are a lot of short Jewish elites, billionaires included. Since Kraft was just in the news I noticed he’s only 5-7. Jews tend to be a little shorter (maybe an inch or so?) but there are also many tall ones.

I knew a very tall Jew who rowed for the Ivy League. He said all their coxswains were either Puerto Rican or Jewish.

Well, then what is it due to? Did the American people suddenly become lazy and slothful, compared to the 50s? You can attribute some of it to demographic changes, but Whites didn’t suddenly decide to eat a lot more for no particular reason. What did change is the agro policy and the way food is manufactured . Food scientist for major manufacturers work very hard to design foods that hit all the neurochemical triggers to make them irresistible. Also, portion sizes in most restaurants are enormous, suitable for 2-3 people at least, and yet most people will eat the whole portion when it’s put in front of them.
It’s not any change in genetics, because Europeans who move to the U.S. tend to gain weight, and Americans who move to Europe tend to become thinner. It’s partly the foods and partly the culture that reinforces it. Seeing lots of obese people around makes it “OK” to be overweight, whereas when you are surrounded by fit, trim people, it puts pressure on you to control your weight.

You guys are making a mistake by speaking with a woman online. All they want is attention. Rosie loves when you insult her, rebut her, or give her any kind of replies.

Sorry, I don’t get my theology through movies. And, no, Luther didn’t write the Gospel. I suspect if you read it, you’d know that God isn’t just undiscerning goodies.

No, he just rescued it from its errant custodian.

The provisional answer is no, and that’s why physicians prescribe diet and exercise in conjunction even when stimulants are prescribed.

Seriously, Twinkie, I just can’t deal with you anymore. I am not claiming that stimulants help without diet and exercise, obviously. I have clearly stated the opposite. The point is that the stimulants facilitate diet and exercise.

Hi guys, what’d I miss?

A fierce debate over whether is was a “good” decision for us to have eliminated bastardy bonds and the dunking stool.

There’s no evidence that supplements can improve your height but there’s plenty to suggest they can help with managing your weight and overall health and I do hear that there is lots of research that suggests supplements natural supplements can improve one’s cognitive abilities regardless of how tall a person is.

Note I have not use CLA for over a year and I’ve used it very briefly I have no idea if it has any value.

You know what I think it’s funny that anybody even talks about ephedrine anymore I thought that was completely out-of-date chemically enhanced supplement stop.

Entirely false notion that supplement help don’t help with specific areas of health or General Health. Well there are plenty of bogus Health supplements there are also a myriad of Health supplements that are recommended by doctors not only outside of the United States but inside the United States they’re all natural they come from spices and herbs and Auburn research to a greater extent than they ever have been before by the professional medical community. I think it’s very very clear that in the professional World of Sports numerous supplements are being used to Aid athletes and not only improve their performance but their health as well and a lot of that and a lot of that knowledge is being transferred by physicians and medical personnel 2 non professional athletes and non-athletes alike.

In conjunction with change of diet and exercise I use the following supplements and they’re all natural to my knowledge apple spice vinegar, curcumin and turmeric and fennel.

On occasion I also use on occasion some gut biogenetic juices, and pure bulk vitamin C.

I do have several bottles of CLA at my disposal but I don’t know how effective those supplements have been to my General Health or a weight loss at all given the change in diet and the amount of exercise.

But based on the medical community’s reporting and research on supplements natural supplements it’s clear that they are in fact helpful in improving one’s health and Fitness. They are not a substitute for exercise or Diet but they are helpful additions.

And I agree with anyone who would say that one should be very careful about what supplements they choose and where they choose to purchase her supplements and the dosage and and how they use any of these in combination.

Sorry, I don’t get my theology through movies. And, no, Luther didn’t write the Gospel. I suspect if you read it, you’d know that God isn’t just undiscerning goodies.

Indeed, to St. Augustine is attributed (by Samuel Beckett, I think) the saying, “Do not Despair: one of the thieves was saved. Do not presume: one of the thieves was damned.” Whether the attribution is correct or not, you can read the whole story in the Gospel according to St. Luke:

[39] And one of those robbers who were hanged, blasphemed him, saying: If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. [40] But the other answering, rebuked him, saying: Neither dost thou fear God, seeing thou art condemned under the same condemnation?

[41] And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this man hath done no evil. [42] And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom. [43] And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Caloric intake and physical activity are not separate factors from the stimulants. They are changed by the stimulants. With a suppressed appetite, you eat less, and you are not weighed down and listless from lack of calories.

No one with an IQ above 100 needs that spelled out. You seem not to understand that the stimulant in question is not the only variable affecting caloric intake and activity level. To wit:

The effectiveness of stimulants in weight loss is totally uncontroversial. The only thing that is even remotely controversial is whether they are safe for long-term use

Not so. The extent of the efficacy of the stimulant has not been established. In other words, is it powerful enough in relatively safe doses* to overcome other factors that affect the caloric intake and activity level? The provisional answer is no, and that’s why physicians prescribe diet and exercise in conjunction even when stimulants are prescribed.

*In high doses, stimulants are going to be very effective at weight control. Severe meth addicts don’t get fat since they don’t eat. Heck, for that matter, you can’t or won’t eat if your heart stops. You’ll be nicely trim in death.

There is no free lunch in this world, no matter how much you wish so. The only thing free is the grace of God, but even that you have to will yourself to accept.

the evidence increasingly suggests they are.

Are you just not going to read the overwhelming evidences that are contrary to your wants? As another commenter linked, we tried this before. Instead of using Google to pick and choose whatever information tickles your fancy, go on the internet and spend $50 on a basic human biology textbook. Read up on what happens when you stimulate the CNS long-term.

It might be helpful to look at people who quit smoking. In my family I saw some weight gain there (though it can be hard to disentangle that from age related gain).

Weight gain upon quitting smoking is widely recognized to be in the five to ten pound range, but that only takes account of what is gained right after cessation. It doesn’t account for pounds gained that would not have been gained with continued nicotine use. As you alluded to, it is easy (and convenient for fat-shamers) to assume later weight gain is age-related. Of course, there you’d have to look at obesity rates among previous generations of elderly that smoked more to see if it has changed.

“Heretic”? That’s almost funny, coming from someone who doesn’t even subscribe to Christian doctrines of repentance and redemption and thinks her heresy of a few hundred years is the original.

The original, real Gospel:

There is no doubt that stimulants depress appetite. The question is, by how much? In particular, how much does it matter in weight control in comparison to other variables such as caloric intake, physical activity level, etc.

Oh God, this is so painful. Let me spell it out for you. Caloric intake and physical activity are not separate factors from the stimulants. They are changed by the stimulants. With a suppressed appetite, you eat less, and you are not weighed down and listless from lack of calories.

The effectiveness of stimulants in weight loss is totally uncontroversial. The only thing that is even remotely controversial is whether they are safe for long-term use, and the evidence increasingly suggests they are. Indeed, the results are already in from nicotine, the adverse effects of which are chiefly the result of the delivery mechanism, not the stimulant effects.

If women just mindlessly gorged themselves on food out of gluttony or whatever it is you claim, the medicines wouldn’t work. The problem is hunger, and stimulants take the edge off.

Fat people lie about their diets….paleo diets are difficult to maintain – very few carbs , no milk , no cheese, no potatoes, no rice, no wheat, no oats…

Two obese guys lived in my fraternity house…they were always dieting and attempted to follow the recommended diets of the time , which was low fat and high carb. Fat free cookies was a favorite of them.

In my twenties I lived shared a house with 4 people. One girl was obese…she was a vegetarian.

When my best friend became a vegetarian we were surprised that he gained 20 gradually became fat.

Feels like I am trying a bit too hard to rationalize things there though.

A little bit. 🙂

There is no doubt that stimulants depress appetite. The question is, by how much? In particular, how much does it matter in weight control in comparison to other variables such as caloric intake, physical activity level, etc. My guess is quite small, compared to those two major variables, unless in massive doses (which inevitably means a high degree of addiction).

Thinking about people I know now, a number of the smokers are fairly obese.

Because, like obesity, smoking is highly and inversely correlated with class, education, IQ, and conscientiousness, etc.

I see it routinely, not only between my two residences (one in super zip, the other in Appalachia), but hospitals in the two respective areas (you might remember that I am on the board of a large, multi-state healthcare system).

The disparity between Belmont and Fishtown has gotten even worse since Murray’s book almost a decade ago.

That is an interesting counterpoint. It might be helpful to look at people who quit smoking. In my family I saw some weight gain there (though it can be hard to disentangle that from age related gain).

My guess is we see something like:
– Smoking helped mask weight gain in lower class people (especially women) until the environmental effects overwhelmed even that.
– Smoking helped mask weight gain in higher class people, but they made more of an effort to deal with weight by means other than smoking once smoking became unpopular.
– People who quit smoking gained weight which was part of the obesity rate transition.

I think the net effect would be to speed the change in obesity rates by having the decline in smoking coincide with increasingly bad food choices.

Feels like I am trying a bit too hard to rationalize things there though. What do you think? Any good evidence out there?

Thinking about people I know now, a number of the smokers are fairly obese.

“I’m totally not a Pelagian, I just believe that humans can save themselves and there actually was no need at all for Christ’s suffering and death.”

Not what I wrote. Stop making things up. I consume Christ’s body and blood nearly every day and remember His sacrifice.

You have gone full moronic and disingenuous. But keep digging.

“Heretic”? That’s almost funny, coming from someone who doesn’t even subscribe to Christian doctrines of repentance and redemption and thinks her heresy of a few hundred years is the original.

Agreed. I don’t think this is mentioned often enough as one the causative factors behind the change in obesity rates.

I am somewhat skeptical, because weight gain is bigger among lower SES females who smoke much more. Smoking has all but disappeared among affluent women and they had the smallest weight gain.

This is not to suggest that nicotine is not an appetite suppressant, merely that its role in weight gain trends may not be significant.

And Catholics aren’t Pelagians

The heretic doth protest too much.

Twinkie: “I’m totally not a Pelagian, I just believe that humans can save themselves and there actually was no need at all for Christ’s suffering and death.”

Hi guys, what’d I miss?

Rosie demanding speed for the rest of her life, because she is fat through Adam’s Original Sin (Eve is excused) and mass media manipulations that unnaturally program men to seek sexy women.

Even quicker summary: Rosie is never at fault for her problems. She deserves so much more.

Non sequitur. You are in a hole. First, stop digging.

From your own link:

but we need clinical trials to provide more certainty,” Lewis said in a statement. “At the moment, there is no change to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration labeling so doctors should use caution with the decision about prescribing it longer term.”

Don’t jump on ONE study that happens to validate your priors. Do you even know who sponsored the study?

Learn some basic biology – something that unnaturally stimulates the CNS isn’t going to be sustainable long-term.

Far from “moralism” as the operative force in medical trials, the actual tension that exists is that between patient safety and the drug companies that want to make money by mass usage of their products.

Your Catholic Pelagianism has nothing and should have nothing to do with my health care choices.

That was in response to your self-indulgent philosophy that “succumbing to temptation is precisely what it means to be human” (which is clearly a most un-Christian claim, but is consistent with your self-view as a dumb animal without free will to seek redemption through Grace).

And Catholics aren’t Pelagians (the latter was condemned at the Council of Carthage in the 5th century long before Protestant heresy was even an inkling), but you either knew that already (and are disingenuously combining the two mutually exclusive terms) or are too ignorant to know that.

Don’t go full moronic. You come off poorly.

Nicotine, like phentermine, is an appetite suppressant, and probably masked the effects of increasing sedentariness for some decades, especially among the working class population.

Agreed. I don’t think this is mentioned often enough as one the causative factors behind the change in obesity rates.

Make sure to read the last paragraph of that link:

“For patients who respond to and tolerate it, phentermine may be a safe and affordable way to achieve greater and longer-lasting weight loss, but we need clinical trials to provide more certainty,” Lewis said in a statement. “At the moment, there is no change to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration labeling so doctors should use caution with the decision about prescribing it longer term.”

I think anyone considering stimulants for weight loss should learn about the history of that idea. This gives a good summary.

America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971
A Quantitative and Qualitative Retrospective With Implications for the Present

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2377281/

Note that doctors were once recommending extensive use of both amphetamine and barbiturates. Doctors are not omniscient. At the end of the day we are responsible for our own health.

AE, you might want to take a look at the data on the success of the anti-smoking campaign and how that relates to the timing of the obesity epidemic ramping up. I found this amusing little nugget on wikipedia:

Studies have shown that weight gain during the smoking cessation process can often be lost eventually through diet and exercise.[citation needed]

Lol. I suspect no such studies exist. Nicotine, like phentermine, is an appetite suppressant, and probably masked the effects of increasing sedentariness for some decades, especially among the working class population.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_smoking_for_weight_loss

Hi guys, what’d I miss?

So congratulations, you’ve helped marginally and temporarily reduce obesity by getting hundreds of millions of individuals addicted to an amphetamine-like drug. It’s called treatment, guys! Get with the program!

I’ll tell you what. How about the media stops bombarding young girls (and even more importantly, boys) with images of bulimorectic, chain-smoking starlets, each and every one of whom is doping to maintain their weight? This sets girls up for a lifetime of self-hatred, repeated failure, and eventually despair and resignation.

Look, in particular, to the last sentence.

Your Catholic Pelagianism has nothing and should have nothing to do with my health care choices. That is a matter for medical doctors.

https://www.physiciansbriefing.com/internal-medicine-21/prescription-drug-news-551/long-term-phentermine-use-safe-effective-for-weight-loss-744363.html

I observe something similar. A lot of thin people I know eat bread for breakfast, bread for lunch, cake in the afternoon and spaghetti for dinner. But they move and they just never eat to much. Obese people just tend to eat to much of everything.

Subway is a psy-op; customers see the massive dough and are tricked into thinking that they are getting a massive sandwich (“bang for your buck”), in reality they are just carbing out (meat, the most nutritious but expensive ingredient, is often horribly sparse relative to the big-ass loaf of bread you’re chowing on). Subway is evidently not doing very well; they inexplicably have locations practically on every block, when I don’t know anyone who considers them to be their fast food of choice; the one nearest me is typically not very busy, even in comparison to the nearby Burger King. Jimmy John’s and Jersey Mike’s are way better.

The point here is that Subway, like Pret A Manger, offers the crappiest little sandwiches for their respective markets. But the Subway sandwich is twice the size of its UK counterpart. The Subway photo looks true to life. I know from personal experience that the Pret A Manger sandwich has literally 1 slice of meat literally 1/16″ thick (or thin, if you prefer). So the Pret A Manger photo may have involved Photoshop, meaning that the meat to carb ratio is even lower than Subway. The stats are fairly clear – lower calorie consumption in the UK is correlated with lower obesity rates, despite a higher carb to meat ratio.

But Tennis is more of a time-sink than basketball or soccer

Sure. But tennis requires fewer people than soccer and basketball. It’s something you can do as an elderly couple with your wife.

It’s not for me though. I’m going to train in Judo/Jujitsu – with my grand kids, God willing – until the day before I die. Like this guy:

I believe he was in his late 80’s when that video was taken. He died at age 95 a few days after his last training session.

And he’s not alone:

Agreed!

And yet succumbing to temptation is precisely what it means to be human.

Like Judas?

God wants us to be more than animals that give into their instincts. Yes, we will falter because we are flawed, but we must strive to be more than we are. God doesn’t expect perfection out of us, but He does expect contrition when we fail and something else too.

You derided the Rite of Reconciliation here once, but we all need it:

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins, because I dread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell, but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve with the help of thy grace to confess my sins, to do penance, and to amend my life. Amen.

Look, in particular, to the last sentence.

And yet succumbing to temptation is precisely what it means to be human.

Nice philosophy. Where’d you pick that up? Alastair Crowley?

We know that genes don’t make you 500 pounds because people didn’t weigh 500 pounds as recently as a few decades ago. This isn’t complicated. Humans do evolve, or de-evolve as the case may be, but not so drastically in 1-2 generations. Again, obvious.

Setting aside your credibility issues and provisionally accepting your claim of having “numerous children”, you’ve demonstrated precisely the point you’re trying to refute. Those fat kids didn’t get fat because of genetics, they got fat because they had useless parents who either fed them junk food or fed them way too much food. And then they went on to develop an unhealthy relationship with food. Fact is, most morbidly obese people actually have a food addiction. Addicts are usually in denial and have to be shamed into seeking help (“help”, in this case, being nutritional advice and fitness coaching).

And like any other addiction, drugs generally do not effectively treat it, and in the rare cases when they do, like methadone for heroin addiction, they also create a chemical dependency on the “treatment” drug that is extremely difficult to break. So congratulations, you’ve helped marginally and temporarily reduce obesity by getting hundreds of millions of individuals addicted to an amphetamine-like drug. It’s called treatment, guys! Get with the program!

You argue like every other progressive. Find some thin, marginal opening in which to insert your wedge – “it’s hormone-related!” – and magnify it to the point of absurdity in order to advocate for completely insane interventions. That may fly with your liberal friends but it’s transparent to anyone in the dissident sphere.

With friends like you, …

That’s exactly how I thought you’d reply.

I’m not your friend, but I want your life to turn out well, at minimum because I don’t want your mistakes to drag down the rest of our society, and because you are my fellow American and that counts for something in my book.

But you are a child who doesn’t like being told what’s good for her. And like a child you want to be told that you can have everything while paying no price for it. Stop throwing tantrums online and go tend to your husband and kids.

I wonder how long before GSS gets kaboshed by the powers to be, way too much non-wokeness coming through it every time.