The Japanese then made sure that China would be communist by destroying the Kuomintang military and government.

There were forces in China who were anti japanese. After the Xian incident where Chiang Kai Shek was kidnapped he turned from anti Commie to anti Japanese. By his unnecessary anti Japanese attitude, he made sure that China went communist.
Basically both the Japanese Empire and Chiang Kai-Shek were played by the commies to fight each other.

From
https://digitalrepository.trincoll.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1047&context=moore

Chinese Politics
For decades in China it has been the fashion to blame foreigners for the distress brought on partly by overpopulation and partly by Chinese civil wars and official cruelties.
Probably less than five per cent of China’s population can read, though the number of Chinese graduates of American universities is large. Mass ignorance makes anti-foreignism a natural choice of corrupt politicians.
After America and England bombarded Nanking to rescue foreigners and showed a firm resolve to defend the Shanghai Settlement, Chiang’s party found that anti-American and anti-British policies did not pay. So Chiang’s party moderated that tack and began to seek U. S. aid. Chiang wanted aid to help him subdue rival claimants for the dictatorship. He promptly got U. S. backing, for reasons too devious to relate here, despite just having finished a campaign of anti-Americanism in which much American property was burned and in which a number of Americans were killed.
When U. S. and British backing became assured, Chiang’s party shifted the anti-foreign emphasis to Japan. The Anglo-Japanese alliance had expired. Bolshevist publicity against Japan had been effective in America. Thus isolated, at that time not having either Italy or Germany as theoretical allies, Japan was the ideal target-much better than America or England- for traditional Chinese anti-foreignism.

…snip…

“Chiang’s Predicament
Anti-Japanese agitation from 1928 to 1937 was waged considerably by Chinese elements – particularly Chinese Communists-who hated Chiang. If he could be entangled in a losing war, reds might hope to gain power in large areas of China in consequence of wartime disorganization. When Chiang Kai-shek undertook to subdue anti-Japanese lawlessness, his enemies in China shoute.d that he was pro-Japanese. Yet to compromise with the anti-Japanese elements and officially sanction their violence would invite war with Japan. Chiang was in a hard position. Finally he yielded to the factions clamoring for war.

In June of 1936 a South China faction revolted with the announcement that its aim was to force Chiang to attack the Japanese. Then in December of 1936 the Chinese Communists, in an alliance with another faction, kidnapped Chiang and announced he would be killed unless he agreed to war on Japan. War came seven months later.The point is not that Chiang Kai-shek himself provoked the present war. But it is a matter of plain evidence that provocations from the Chinese side were numerous.”

Chiang’s Kidnaping
From Madame Chiang Kai-shek’s book on the kidnapping of her husband, plus other evidence, it seems plain that Chiang had to choose between risk ing his dictatorship in civil war or joining the movement to make war on Japan. The Blue Shirts, an organization of anti-Japanese officers in the Chinese army, might join the factions against him if he refused to side with the factions seeking war on Japan. Chinese businessmen and the more stable variety of educated Chinese generally seem to have opposed war. The common coolie and farmer classes dreaded war. But these pro-peace elements were shouted down by the radicals. Meanwhile, red propagandists spread the word that aid from America could be expected if war could be started. While affairs were thickening, after Chiang was kidnaped by reds in December of 1936, Chinese radicals were shouting that China, with nine times as many ready troops, could win against Japan.

Agreed.

And now I will follow Hack’s law in stating that I remember and liked your comment about the ridiculousness of Russians making fun of Ukrainians for having a Jewish PM (now they have a president also), when they themselves (52% of them) support Stalin, the Georgian gangster who slaughtered millions of Russians.

hahaha!! So comparing a fake , gutter country in a catastrophic state shamefully electing another jewish President to go along with its Jewish PM and Nazi-nutjob American Health minister………………to support ( i.e historical context) to a Gruzian man from 90 years ago, who helped organise the greatest military comeback in history and has numerous positive statistics to back up his rule to go with the not so good events – to which the whole of that other state owes it’s creation to and existence to….is the “same thing”…LOL

Just about sums up what a time-wasting attention-wh*re spambot cretin you are- typing garbage that you don’t believe in

There was also a lot of Communist activity in China and Japan was looking at a Communist wall of Soviet Russia as well as China.

The Japanese then made sure that China would be communist by destroying the Kuomintang military and government. The Kuomintang never had the chance to recover from the devastating blow of the Japanese knockout in 1937, because the commies immediately started the civil war after 1945. (To be fair, they still needed to commit some major errors, and Mao needed to be smart, but still, it would never have happened without the Japanese attack in 1937.)

Also interesting is that Japanese society in the 1930s did not look like some North Korean society. It looks very Western and free. I was expecting to see a North Korean like dictatorial state.

Japan of the 1930

Same with Germany, civilian life does not seem any different from other European countries.

Berlin 1936

James Perloff on WW2 mentions this

FDR had planed sneak attack on Japan before Pearl Harbor

The Japanese were faced with the options of either surrendering vast territories

The Japanese were ready to surrendering Indo-China but not their holdings in China. They faced a communist threat. The Soviets conquered Outer Mongolia and the Americans as usual said nothing. There was also a lot of Communist activity in China and Japan was looking at a Communist wall of Soviet Russia as well as China.

Yup. I’ve always had difficulty seeing why the Japanese expansion is described in shocked and horrified tones while the Euro and (to a much lesser degree) American expansion into the same areas is accepted as entirely normal and reasonable.

To be sure the Japs were a great deal more brutal than even the Euros had been.

The Jap leaders who could have made the decision to fall back were also perfectly well aware that to do so would have been a death sentence for them. Japan had for 15 years or so been dominated by junior army officers who sort of went their own way, launching preemptive attacks against the desires of their theoretical military and political superiors and assassinating those who got too much in their way.

Which is kind of different to the way we normally think of Japan as hierarchical, with the juniors implicitly obedient to their superiors. Well, they were, but only as long as the superiors didn’t get too far out of line. This has a looonnngggg tradition in Japanese politics, the theoretical superior not really having the actual power.

At one point in Japanese history the emperor was controlled behind the scenes by a shogun, who was controlled behind the scenes by a regent, who was controlled de facto by members of his own clan.

The theory behind the Japanese decision to attack was that American morale would be devastated and that we’d agree to a negotiated peace, kind of like a whipped dog.

This is somewhat like Hitler’s response to the news that FDR had died. He thought this would save Germany, as the Miracle of the House of Brandenburg saved Prussia.

Both decision-makers clearly had zero understanding of America or Americans.

The Japanese were faced with the options of either surrendering vast territories (which they would be unable to justify to the army or the people, even had there been someone left at that point who would do it), being slowly strangled to economic collapse or going to war against the USA and hoping for some kind of way out.

The great podcaster Dan Carlin has a wonderful series on the Mongols. Highly recommended.

whether Japan’s infrastructure was sufficient enough to support its war efforts during WWII

Newsflash! It wasn’t.

The theory behind the Japanese decision to attack was that American morale would be devastated and that we’d agree to a negotiated peace, kind of like a whipped dog.

This is somewhat like Hitler’s response to the news that FDR had died. He thought this would save Germany, as the Miracle of the House of Brandenburg saved Prussia.

Both decision-makers clearly had zero understanding of America or Americans.

The Patriots did not target the best and brightest. They targeted those who supported the British. Quite a different concept.

FWIW, I’m always amused by the southern apologists who weep over the intense persecution of secessionists during Reconstruction. While being completely unaware of the much more intense persecution of Loyalists during and for a brief time after our Revolution.

Yup, the Imperial German government put too much stock in “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

OTOH, they were quite literally fighting for survival, and longterm considerations understandably tend to take a back seat to survival for the next few minutes or months.

Like your moniker!

I really don’t understand why you are surprised. Every revolution is followed by the de-capitation theory. The best and brightest are considered enemies, because they are intelligent and industrious. They are a natural threat to the revolutionaries. Either they leave, or they will be eliminated.
What is not talked about in the US Revolution, is that like every other revolution, it was a minority leading the charge. Most people don’t care, they are too busy with their lives or don’t want to be involved. A sizeable chunk of the colonialists left or were forced to leave the US, and their property seized by those with the means to do so.

Chales Halperin, a prominent historian of Rus and the Mongols, in addition to pointing out the calamities that transpired under the Mongol domination, also points out a number of positive cultural developments that occured too: centralized governance, tax collection, develoment of roads, a mail system and more. It’s been several years since I last read his highly informative “Russia and the Golden Horde”. Highly readable and recommended if you’re at all interested in the topic.

It’s just that I don’t often have an opinion on who was more at fault for starting WWI, or whether Japan’s infrastructure was sufficient enough to support its war efforts during WWII (but I do enjoy reading most of the comments here). I try to stick to things that I know. Most people are specialists these days, anyway? 🙂

That’s why you need an ideology explicitly acknowledging and emphasizing racial differences.

Good luck with that, I guess.

It’s neither good nor bad, it just is 🙂

IIRC Russian Eurasianists also praise Mongols.

The way I see it, Russia and China both wanted to show the US that it achieved an unintended consequence: Russo-Chinese informal military alliance. Neither SK nor Japan qualifies even as a pawn in this bigger game. Naturally, no apologies were issued to either. Elephants don’t apologize to cockroaches for stepping on them. That’s another unintended consequence of US policies: there is no international law any more, only the law of the jungle: might makes right.

Don’t know exactly, and defining the question is a problem.

But here’s an interesting article on the subject.

https://eteconline.org/news/jewish-scientists-played-a-key-role-in-the-manhattan-project/

Stopped reading after this passage:

However, the most interesting thing about this is Russia’s violation of Korean/Japanese airspace over the Dokdo islands, which are disputed between those two countries – and the consequent apology, delivered exclusively to Korea.

This is the pitfall of studying Russia based on Western sources. Anatoly keeps falling for fake news. It’s quite embarrassing, really.

In this particular situation there was no airspace violation, and certainly no apology.

The Mongols were a giant parasite that leeched off their Chinese subjects when not killing them off. More attentive studies of China’s state under the Mongols show significant dysfunction/setbacks. The praise of the Mongols in modernity is largely from Neolib/Neocon narratives (with a touch of Protestant/Enlightenment braying over muh tolerance, anti-Papist/Western babbling, and praise for noble savages).

Fertility decline is a global phenomenon. Even the Soviet Union suffered fertility decline. North Korea’s fertility is below replacement and they have about half the population as South Korea does. The chances that they reach South Korea’s population before their fertility also dips down further do not look good.

Regardless of the name of the boat, I bet you don’t think much of British comedy. No farts, no laughs!

That’s why you need an ideology explicitly acknowledging and emphasizing racial differences.

Hitler actually overemphasized it. For example, he knew that Jews were capable of artistic performance, but banned Jewish artists without exception anyway, because he thought watering down the message would quickly kill it altogether.

Isn’t Korea going to be quite unpopular in Vietnam culturally

From what I know, Korean pop culture is actually popular in Vietnam. Vietnamese don’t seem to hate anyone, they don’t hold historical grudges… except against the Chinese. They hate the Chinese with a passion.

There’s another problematic neighbor for Vietnam, Cambodia. Cambodians hate the Vietnamese, but the Vietnamese don’t hate the Cambodians. Vietnam I think conquered what used to be Eastern Cambodia, cutting them off from the sea, and populated it with Vietnamese settlers. This is what is at present Southern Vietnam. The Vietnamese understand that because of this, Cambodians are going to hate them for a while. They don’t care that much, at least the ones I talked to didn’t care.

So it’s just the Chinese who they hate. Anyone with better knowledge of Vietnam should feel free to correct me.

I’m not sure this incident (flying over them and then apologizing) improves relations with Korea.

But aside from that…

developing stronger ties these days also stenghtens the historic ties with Vietnam, because SK is VN’s second largest investor.

1. Does diplomatic relationship work like this?

E.g. China is the largest investor in Ethiopia. So improving/or disimproving relations with China, would improve your relations with Ethiopia? I’m sure there is a more direct way to build relations.

2. Isn’t Korea going to be quite unpopular in Vietnam culturally – because of the many killings and massacres Koreans had there during Vietnam War? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea_in_the_Vietnam_War#Reported_war_crimes_and_atrocities Not that I can say much about either country.

Since most white people in the USA have no ancestry from the mayflower settlers — and God bless them too — you need to find some different snark to impugn most of us.

The racial angle didn’t contradict human nature.

The “mean” human nature for Europeans has been moving steadily toward “race is a social construct” for several hundred years. You are going uphill, against the trend, against the grain.

Russia is not a US puppet, and their fertility rate has been dangerously low for 25-plus consecutive years.

Hopelessness, lack of a deep belief in God or other larger purpose in life besides one’s own physical pleasure, disconnection from one’s family and culture, brainwashing into mindless materialism and consumerism, and the normalization and encouragement of inherently unhygienic, unhealthy, non-reproductive psychological disorders like homosexuality and outright mental illness and self-mutilation (“transgenderism”) — those have caused especially large numbers of white and Asian people not to bother getting married, to someone of the naturally complementary sex (male-female) of course, and having children.

To the extent that the US government, mass media, universities, and many government (“public”) schools are actively pushing homosexuality, transgenderism, and other family-wrecking / family-preventing disorders, then following US cultural influence is obviously evil and antithetical to the preservation of your people. But there are other routes to that demoralized, atomized, perpetually childless state, as Russia shows.

In 2008, film is made called “Hitler kaput!”, which was a comedy films about Nazis. Communist Party protested against the film, and in the process it has entered the consciousness of the Communist party.

“Putler” is introduced into mass culture after cause célèbre in 2009 in Vladivostok, where Communist party supporters in an anti-Putin demonstration, made signs saying “Putler kaput!”, and signs themselves are formally banned by the government as illegal/extremist propaganda.

In early 2014, Ukrainians unoriginally borrow Russian origin memes, to start making signs about Putler and “Putler Kaput!” , etc. However, they added some photoshopped image of Putin with Hitler’s mustache and hair style, and also were selling this as t-shirts or other merchandise.

Yet another generally intelligent people that has been confused and brainwashed away from normal, well-rounded family life. They will continue to become older on average, fewer in number, and demoralized.

I’d like to see the TFR numbers for self-identified Christians in South Korea. I’ll bet it’s not even replacement level. If Christianity isn’t helping them to return to a natural healthy life, normal sex roles, and love of and sacrifice for one’s spouse and children, a priority on family, what are those Christian pastors teaching and what are they good for? A Christian people who dies out is, well, no longer a Christian people or any other kind.

Sick confused young women in that photo. Boy, they’ll show us, they’ll die alone and their families will die out, yeah how enlightened! Liberated!

The racial angle didn’t contradict human nature. It could be instituted in Germany with minimal violence. (Though it was accompanied by lots of unnecessary violence.)

I don’t think full racialism could be implemented in current Western countries the way it was done in Nazi Germany, or at least it’d involve lots of violence.

So the most basic idea of communism

Yes, it was flawed at the core and the ideal conflicts with human nature. 🙂

Nazism without the racial angle is not flawed at the core (but then it wouldn’t be Nazism). It is flawed at the core with regard to implementation in our nation states as they actually exist today.

And now I will follow Hack’s law in stating that

Eh too, Brute? 🙁 🙂

I see a parallel between those who say Nazism would have worked “if” and those who say communism would have worked “if.”

Nazism didn’t work because it lost the war. It lost the war because it was impossible to win in the first place. And many Nazis (including high ranking Nazis) were afraid of the war. Göring didn’t seem to be so keen on fighting a war, for example, and it’s possible that he would never have started one.

So with Nazism, you have to change the very aggressive pursuit of lebensraum in the East and the very aggressive program of immediate conquest. (Or you have to win that war. I don’t think their chances were zero, but close enough to zero for our purposes.)

With communism… what would you change with communism, in order for it to change? It’s not like it wasn’t tried. The Chinese found a way which works – basically, capitalism, coupled with a totalitarian state. That’s basically the recipe of Nazism. (With a few additions, the most important of which was overt racialism. Eugenics actually does have some currency in China, just not as overtly as in Nazi Germany.)

So the most basic idea of communism (nationalizing everything and running a centrally planned economy, or “people’s communes”, or something along those lines) is clearly not working on a large scale.

After 1945, “racism” got fully discredited. In the following two-three decades, blank slatism became dominant in academia. I don’t think any other outcome was possible, because very strong forces (((?))) wanted it to happen, while their opponents were tainted by association with Nazism. Even worse, we got to a situation where opponents of blank slatism still publicly affirm the tenets of “anti-racism.”

I can entertain your idea that a political entity based on race is not inherently “evil.” One of the major objections that I have is how the complications that present themselves when we start trying to bring about such an entity will be dealt with. I see a parallel between those who say Nazism would have worked “if” and those who say communism would have worked “if.” As you pointed out, Nazism fully discredited “racism,” so it doesn’t make sense to me to allow one’s political ideas and views to be stigmatized with Nazism. You do that by offering any defense of Nazism. I have a similiar political problem. I would like to see our future political direction in the US make a turn to a more communitarian direction, but I have learned enough to know that I should drop any and all references to communist and Marxist ideas.

I’ll be a little contrary just to be provocative: if communism retarded the aviation industry, who is to say that it wasn’t a positive, in the sense of it being an impediment to globalism?

The steamboat era was globalist just fine. Look at the nationalities of Titanic passengers:

http://www.icyousee.org/titanic.html#nation

The Atlantic ocean would be crossed in six days, a flight now (including wait times at the airports) takes one day. Not a very significant difference, and even the third class on the Titanic was vastly more comfortable than the economy class on a plane. In the age of sails it was about forty days, without washing, and live animals were kept together with passengers to be eaten on the way because refrigerators didn’t exist. Imagine all the smells and diseases, now that was challenging to globalism. And still desperate people went for it – I learned that from a book about English emigrants in the 1830s.

I think Icy Blast is an American. Sarcasm doesn’t work for them. The Mayflower wasn’t carrying their best.

8% of Koreans are Catholics. While this proportion surprised me, it’s still a fringe phenomenon. It’s like saying that the conversion of Gabbard family made America a Gypsy country.

And, of courtse, following the recent plethora of people suddenly recollecting being raped 40 years ago, and the (((movives))) explaining everything to the plebs, the percentage of Catholics is decreasing. Better to cut your child’s dick, and have a gay-worshiping female bishop.

A little too 4D chess for me. Seems like this move would just cause SK/Japan to put aside their disputes and fight the big bad authoritarian countries together, while leaning more on the west for support.

If the idea is to peel SK off and flip them, thus leaving Japan alone as a western ally, then maybe it’s worth it. Will note that Moon Jae-in is surprisingly pro-China, for a liberal.

Soviet communism was massively dysgenic

In the beginning years, yes, but in its later decades I doubt that would be the case.

The Korean map does not recognize Kaliningrad, however.

(they probably don’t recognize it at all and literally)

Soviet communism was massively dysgenic even where they didn’t commit mass murder. Because even there masses of the elites fled the area, whose main result is exactly the same.

Germany was technically bankrupt since 1932, when it stopped making payments it was required to do under the 1929 Young Plan.

I fail to see why it would have been in a worse situation in 1939 than in 1932. It was simply spending too much on the military. They could easily have scaled it back.

For plutonium, you don’t need enrichment. But I think the overall costs of the program would have been similar to the A4 rocket program. So definitely not impossible.

I’m not saying they could’ve finished it by April 30, 1945 (the Americans didn’t manage to do so), but that it would have been possible to work on it, especially in peacetime. They had lots of physicists who were willing to work on it.

Two pieces which relate to the likes of Sikorsky and how some see the Soviet experience as an overall plus for Russia:

https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2019/07/25/a-tale-of-two-museums/

https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2019/07/22/homo-sovieticus/

Germany I think never had more than a month’s imports worth of reserves 1933-45.

Schacht warned that the very fast pace of armament would lead to a war anyway. He was not wrong. He wanted a managed peacetime mixed economy. He didn’t mind a strong military, but the pace of rearmament was insane. It could and should have been scaled back.

But it says nothing about the long term viability of the regime. They should’ve spent less on the military.

why did the West experience the Enlightenment and the resulting castration of religion as a force within the state, whereas the Islamic World didn’t?

i think historically religion has been used as a way of producing a level of cooperation that a population needed but was otherwise in capable of e.g. making a selfish population act like a clan, a clannish population act a tribe and a tribal population act like a nation.

i think the west European marriage model made people more cooperative by nature and this reduced the need for religion as a cooperation enhancer.

nb reducing the need for religion as a cooperation enhancer wouldn’t necessarily reduce genetic religiosity.

Okay, but how is it relevant as to whether they’d have collapsed of their own weight in 1940, had they not started the war?

It would have crashed and burned due to economic and political reasons in 1939 and 1940 had the war not started.

I used to think so, too. But now I don’t think it was so, at all.

Richard J. Evans mentions that Hjalmar Schacht had said the same things over and over again – that Germany was on the verge of bankruptcy. He started saying so in 1936, when the policy of strong rearmament just got going. However, in the summer of 1939 in London he admitted that he was basically lying. The combination of price controls, highly regulated foreign trade, and very high military expenditure could have gone on forever, or at least, for a long enough time not to matter.

Moreover, Germany was on the verge of bankruptcy solely because it was spending so much on the military. They could have slowed down military procurements any time bankruptcy was truly imminent, and in fact, they did so many times over. In early 1939 Hitler publicly endorsed exporting more (in order to pay for the imports), and they did so. Then the absorption of Czechia and the robbery of its resources led to another burst of military procurements, but after that was exhausted, too, they cut back military procurements in the summer again. (Or maybe they were just about to cut them back, but then the war happened.)

Wehrmacht had received maximum attention and funds but the hundreds of newly raised battalions slept in tents due to steel shortages, tank production was lagging behind schedule and had to be reduced in 1939/1940; artillery ammunition would have run out had France attacked during Poland campaign not to mention the overall lack of artillery tubes in addition to their inadequacy

What is your point? Germany was only allowed to have a minimal size military until 1933. Though military expenditures grew exponentially (from a very low base) after 1933, true large scale armament only started in 1936. The fact that, by 1940, it managed to build up a military which was even remotely competitive with the combined might of France and the UK is a testament to the extreme level of military expenditures.

Of course, in the absence of war, they could and should have slowed down military procurements. So what?

Germans engines were bad – DB, BMW and Junkers produced engines that produced less power from more working volume with less reliability than comparable American and British engines.

Okay. That was because they literally only started to build up their military aviation industry from scratch in 1933. And how is it relevant as to whether Nazi Germany would have crashed and burned in 1940, had they not started a war? Let me answer this rhetorical question: it’s not relevant.

very late industrial mobilisation and institution of war economy – 1942/1943

That’s a myth. In the last full year of peace, 1938, Germany spent 20% of its national income on the military – the highest level a capitalistic economy ever reached in peacetime. In 1939 it grew to a third, and then in 1940 a half. They allocated enormous resources to investments, like building up the chemicals industry (for ersatz Benzin, among other things), which was necessary to wage a war later on. In hindsight, they should’ve stopped all investments and instead concentrated on purely military expenditure, because by the time the investments came online (only after 1942), the war was already lost for good.

But they allocated everything to the military. There were serious problems with German armaments production (for example they liked to create several tailor-made versions of their weapons systems, instead of mass producing just a few variants, which resulted in very low levels of production until 1942; some of the problems you mentioned already), but it wasn’t that they didn’t mobilize the economy. Because they did.

the industry simply couldn’t utilize female labour

The share of female labor in Germany was higher in 1939 than it would ever become in the UK during the war. This meant that there was already a lower potential for mobilizing women for the war economy. Agriculture was to a large extent run by the wives and daughters of farmers, when farmers and their sons were drafted to the military. This was a hidden female element in the work force (also in the UK, but to a much smaller extent, because agriculture was smaller), which should be added. Overall, they utilized female workforce as much as possible.

The hypothetical scenario of waiting for 1942/1944 to be fully ready for war was impossible.

Why? Even better, they should never have started a war. They should have worked on missiles and nukes, and once they have them, they’d have achieved independence without having to conquer an eastern empire. (Because remember, the basic issue for Hitler was that it was very easy to blockade Germany, and so true independence required that they controlled the East. Probably a political dominance over Eastern Central and Southeastern Europe would have been enough, coupled with an independent strategic nuclear arsenal by the 1960s.)

Because it lost the war. Communism collapsed despite winning the war and for several decades ruling the second strongest empire in the world.

After 1945, “racism” got fully discredited. In the following two-three decades, blank slatism became dominant in academia. I don’t think any other outcome was possible, because very strong forces wanted it to happen, while their opponents were tainted by association with Nazism. Even worse, we got to a situation where opponents of blank slatism still publicly affirm the tenets of “anti-racism.”

This left opponents of mass immigration intellectually defenseless.

Of course, multiculturalism couldn’t happen overnight. Immigration started out as a trickle, and only slowly grew. But when the moment came, its opponents couldn’t organize themselves intellectually. They always had to say that they’d accept “assimilated” or “well-integrated” immigrants as a matter of course. See the sad spectacle of BoJo wanting to create a government with lots of “minorities” and women.

It’s very difficult to achieve something, if you don’t have the intellectual tools to even think about what the ideal outcome would be, or what would be wrong with where we are heading.

I think he might have been sarcastic.

I think T4 wasn’t a core element of Nazism. As I wrote, even its goals (eugenics) could be achieved without it.

I disagree with a number of your points (like, Hitler might not have done anything against the churches; faithful Christians were anyway just one element of the opposition – Hitler rarely wanted to disturb the peace of the German population, so the fact that the murdered people had relatives in German society caused undue anxiety and disturbance, the churches merely catalyzed this by publicly removing all doubt as to what was going on), but I agree with this one:

I think we need some restraint and careful thought before we start using force.

I think it’s even more general than that. If you don’t like something, extreme violence (like killing thousands of people) should be some kind of last resort only, because in real life you cannot know with absolute certainty if you will deliver the results. You know, ends might justify the means, but if you don’t reach your end goals, then you will be stuck with your means only. In other words: the coming utopia is in the uncertain future and might never arrive, but the mass murder is immediate and certain. Becoming a mass murderer without delivering a utopia is way worse than not doing anything.

It’s the principle of “first, do no harm,” especially don’t do extreme harm (mass murder).

Who is “Putler”? Oh, that’s right, you’re an idiot.

I had the impression that Jews do not like Christmas.

Which is exactly why they perverted it to be about consumerism and trees and Coca-Cola instead of Christ.

South Korea is a good example of what happens if you become a US puppet. Their fertility rate is plummeting and their so called “nationalists” there are more concerned about meaningless cucky stuff like being tough on North Korea. A true nationalist would support North Korea over South Korea, because despite all the jokes that are made about “best Korea”, it really is the better of the two if you support the Korean race.

Assassinations of Lenin, Pilsudski and others who were plotting abroad even before WW1 should have been ordered immediately.

Fun fact: Pilsudski’s elder brother was in a terrorist cell with Lenin’s elder brother, plotting to kill Alexander III.

Makes you wonder if, indeed, the conspiracy theories about who really runs the world are true.

Of course, this begs the question: why did the West experience the Enlightenment and the resulting castration of religion as a force within the state, whereas the Islamic World didn’t?

There was no ‘castration of religion’. One religion (Christianity) was replaced by another (Gnosticism).

The Roman Catholic church tried to stamp out Gnostics by fire and sword during the Albigensian Crusade, but ultimately it failed.

There was also that little 1905 thingy….

Russian Empire over the last 2000 years has been by far the most benevolent towards Jews in all of Europe – it also doesn’t change the fact though that many of these Jews from the supposed pogroms immigrated to the US & UK , had great bloodlust and are partly to blame for the anti-Russian policy of the west in the last 100 years.

Not only the Russian Empire but so was Germany. Jews back stabbed both these nations who had been kind to them. Actually in WW1, Jews first back stabbed Russia by killing the Romanovs and installing the murderous Bolshevik regime (in which the idiotic German Government helped the Commies) and then immediately after the Balfour Declaration, they back stabbed Germany.

Sorry wrong page

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=191649&sid=1ac9a4ed4ba3185c8e32dceae9a30aff

A Comparison of American and German economies in WW2

All the economic data to your heart’s content. Notice the massive rise in German GNP after Hitler came to power. In 1933, Germany was 31.95% of the US economy while in 1940 it was 52.30% of the US economy, all this time while the American economy nearly doubled.

Though I may add that some Mizrahi/Sephardics were doing quite well in the Islamic world. Jews in Iraq and Morocco were a successful well off population. If I am not mistaken, the Sephardic Kaduri family (Rabbi Kaduri’s ancestors) owned the largest publishing house of Arabic books in the entire Arab world before Israel.

If anything, Russian Empire was far too lenient and kind to Jewish, Polish and other terrorists – summary executions and reprisals against terrorists’ families instead of exile, Siberia and other crap would have prevented the worst and saved the lives of millions, starting with several thousand Russian officials and goverment workers killed in 1900s.

That is what I find very interesting. Tzar Nicholas seemed too kind and compassionate for his own good. Should have had those commie terrorists shot instead of exile. The Communists in power would have done just that.

Wages of destruction.

Oh Tooze, he is an advocate of “The German economy sucked school of thought”. Yeah rite!!

The German economy under the Third Reich was the second largest in the World after the USA. Unlikely it would have
collapsed.
There has been a discussion on this issue before.

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=191649&sid=74477b5b321c1f91f34d588f5acec932&start=45

By July 1935 almost seventeen million Germans were in brand new jobs, though they were not well paid by anyone’s standards. But nevertheless, these jobs provided a living wage, compared with just eleven million Germans who were in employment just two years before.

In the space of four years, NS Germany changed from a defeated nation, a bankrupt economy, strangled by war debt, inflation and lack of foreign capital; into full employment with the strongest economy and biggest military power in Europe.

The Third Reich was to technological failure: think of jet-propelled aircraft, guided missiles, the electron microscope all of which either were first developed in Nazi Germany or reached their high point at that time. There are innovations in the area of basic physics (nuclear fission, discovered by Otto Hahn and Lise Meitner in 1938), hormone and vitamin research, automotive engineering (the Volkswagen was supposed to be the “people’s car”), pharmacology, and synthetic gasoline and rubber (I. G. Farben in 1942 controlled more than 90 percent of the world’s synthetic rubber production).

NS aeronautic engineers designed the first intercontinental ballistic missiles-never actually assembled-and it was Germans in the 1940s who built the first jet ejection seat. German engineers built the world’s first autobahns, and the world’s first magnetic tape recording is of a speech by Hitler. The first television broadcast strong enough to escape the planet featured Hitler’s speech at the opening of the 1936 Berlin Olympics.

Weimar Germany only contained something like 5% (at most) of the world’s total Ashkenazi Jewish population in 1933, no?

Kevin MacDonald’s “Culture of Consent” has been a real eye-opener for me. You can’t get it from Amazon anymore. Any criticism or suspicion of Jewish motivations, no matter how dispassionate, is now considered the vilest form of anti-Semitism.

Hmm. That doesn’t bode well for the world’s most philosemitic gentile nation in the 21st century. Certain Hebraic intellectuals (not all of them by any means, but certainly the most influential ones) seem to want to destroy this nation for the crime of not loving them enough.

Pogroms are an almost complete fabrication – calling them Russian pogroms is even worse seeing how none of them happened in Russia.

If anything, Russian Empire was far too lenient and kind to Jewish, Polish and other terrorists – summary executions and reprisals against terrorists’ families instead of exile, Siberia and other crap would have prevented the worst and saved the lives of millions, starting with several thousand Russian officials and goverment workers killed in 1900s.

Agree 100% – I just thought I would use diplomatic language in my post, because diplomacy comes so naturally to me.
Russian Empire over the last 2000 years has been by far the most benevolent towards Jews in all of Europe – it also doesn’t change the fact though that many of these Jews from the supposed pogroms immigrated to the US & UK , had great bloodlust and are partly to blame for the anti-Russian policy of the west in the last 100 years.

…and most of jewish contribution to America in science, entertainment and so on is derivative from living with/off Russian empire….which of course in the late 19th- early 20th century was producing more than any other country in great contributions in music, literature, science & mathematics ( first 2 undisputed leader, last 2 more equal with the other main countries but still a great contributor)

@ AK: developing stronger ties these days also stenghtens the historic ties with Vietnam, because SK is VN’s second largest investor. Nearly 25% of VN’s export come from Korean companies. Let’s not even speak about the political-cultural influence the Kimchi addicts have over Vietnam these days. From the 100k Korean-Vietnamese marriage of convience to the K-Pop bands touring Vietnam to the thousands of VN students in Korea.

Russia only strengthen its hand with VN.

To be fair, though, those two Russians actually survived. They were forced to go into exile but nevertheless survived and were able to make full use of their potential–simply on behalf of the US rather than on the behalf of Russia.

Ashkenazi Jews are much smarter than Mizrahi Jews, though. In turn, this helps to explain why Muslim countries remained dumps in spite of having relatively large Jewish populations.

German productivity did not overtake the UK’s until the early 1950’s, a direct result of decartelization. Fascist economies are dirigiste. Good for a certain degree of catch up but not suitable for overtaking. Russia has reverted to dirigism (crony capitalists who invest under are direction).

This thread should be discussing Vladimir Zworykin not just Sikorski. He was another Russian exile who invented a fundamental technology to whit, television. This had far greater impact than Sikorsky’s helicopter. Zworykin’s work on TV started in St Petersburg around 1912. He later added the electron microscope to his list of fundamental inventions. That gave Atlantic countries a lead in biological sciences.

Of course, we are creatures of our environment. Russia had no firms like Westinghouse or RCA or Britain’s Marconi that could pick up a new technology and sell and produce the complex system necessary to deliver a television channel. Marconi did have a subsidiary in Russia prior to the Revolution but it thereafter atrophied. The Bolsheviks were followers not leaders in technology. They had a lot of engineers and scientists but the quality was awful. I met them in the 1990’s. Great technicial training. Technolgists … ?

If true, that’s remarkable.

Koreans sought out Christianity on their own, at a time when Europeans were not so powerful and dominant as to overawe the East.

Perhaps Koreans had an inner desire for the Jewish God after all.

“. . . even how they celebrate Christmas comes primarily from Russian Empire Jews. . .”

Jews celebrating Christmas?
Is not celebrating Christmas of Roman origin, the feast of Saturnalia?
And Germans started the Christmas tree tradition?

I had the impression that Jews do not like Christmas.
But I remember Barbra Streisand’s album of Christmas carols!

One week after the “liberators” will go away, Koreans will forget everything about the Jewish God.

Considering who established (Catholic) Christianity in Korea, I doubt that.

Catholicism first was introduced into Korea in the 17th century. By that time, Catholicism had already spread in China and Japan and Koreans who were in contact with these two countries knew of its existence. Catholic Books in Chinese language were transmitted to Korea from the 17th century. Some Korean literati got an idea of this new religion through reading and studying these books on Catholicism and tried to practice it by themselves. One of them, Yi Seung-hun, went to Beijing to be baptized and on his return to Korea he founded a Christian community. This was in October, 1784. With this historical event we can affirm that the Catholic Church in Korea was established, not by European missionaries, but by the spontaneous efforts of Korean people.
The Church was developed through the efforts of Korean believers. Those who led in the early stage of the Church belonged to the noble class. However, from the beginning, the door of the Church was opened to all the people of society. Soon the majority of the faithful as well as the leadership of the community became the non-privileged people who were oppressed by the ruling class at that time.

http://english.cbck.or.kr/history/106

True

This was back in Unlikely Thoughts days. Your use of it was the first time I saw it. A useful word nontheless.

Japan can’t call their army “army”, and their new aircraft carrier an aircraft carrier, solely because some American lieutenant wrote words to that effect in their Constitution.

They could easily have changed that. In fact, the Americans asked them to set up an army and a navy (and an air force), and to change the constitution, and they refused. It was partly because they didn’t want to spend money on being American vassals. A compromise was reached to set up the “Self Defense Forces,” a military in all but name. The Americans were satisfied, because they assumed that in the event of a world war they would be used anyway, but the Japanese never actually promised that. (Soviet planners had to assume that they would anyway.)

Because of the constitution, it couldn’t be used as an actual military abroad. The Americans cannot request it, because the constitution. So unlike the Europeans, the Japanese don’t actually pay much for their vassalage. They never participate in stupid American wars like Afghanistan. Even their treaty with the Americans only contains obligations for the Americans, the Japanese aren’t obliged to come to the aid of the Americans in case they are attacked. Because constitution.

The constitution was not changed because it’s very good for Japan.

Koreans are also big into circumcision. In just 50 years of occupation, they turned more Christians than the neo-Greeks and the neo-Romans. They are past-Christianity now. They went full Jew, like some Africans and some US protestants.

One week after the “liberators” will go away, Koreans will forget everything about the Jewish God.

There’s a world of a difference between Crimea and the Kuril Islands.

Both Japan and South Korea are under heavy American occupation. You can’t seriously expect them to befriend Russia or China, when a phone call from an aide would gutter naval traffic through Gibraltar, Suez, or whatever Xi Jinping imagines is his road through Poland.

Japan can’t call their army “army”, and their new aircraft carrier an aircraft carrier, solely because some American lieutenant wrote words to that effect in their Constitution.

I suspect South Korea is in the same situation, although I wouldn’t go so far as to learn more from Reddit.

I thought the Russo-Chinese flight was meant to prove to both satellites that they are irrelevant for Javanka Defense Forces.

It had already crashed. Germany was technically bankrupt.

Are your strong convictions based on some literature, primary sources?

Apparently one is supposed to simply accept that the association of Jews with Bolshevism is an anti-semitic lie and never try to put numbers to it.

Yup, pretty much.

Regardless of their personal feelings about Jewry, during the 1920s and ’30s, it was the all but universal consensus of intelligent and informed political figures in the West that the Russian Revolution was, in effect, a Jewish coup to take over Russia.

Such noted anti-Semites as, erm, Winston Churchill agreed that this was the case. Quoth Churchill: “And the prominent if not the principal part in the system of terrorism applied by the extraordinary Commissions for combating Counter Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.”

White men of power then were no less unscrupulous and treasonous than they are now – they just spoke more openly about controversial things.

Recent historians such as Sean McMeekin downplay the Jewish angle but admit there was one.

Interestingly enough, McMeekin also admits that the February Revolution was highly Masonic – Kerensky and his compatriots were all devout Freemasons. But most people don’t have the intellectual courage to touch on the meaning of Masonry either.

I admit this doesn’t really help you with “numbers,” however.

Once again: you fail to show how German unpreparedness for war means Germany’s economy would have crashed without a war.

A bunch of stuff about German war unpreparedness, true or no, does nothing to support your contention that Germany would have “crashed and burned” even without a war.

It would be more interesting if you tried.

Follow the example of Gerhard Schröder, Putler’s best buddy.

Why is it surprising? China doesn’t recognize Crimea and really isn’t all that pro-Russian.

After the German-German border was fortified, there were mercenary helicopter pilots who would cross it to get people out from East Germany. I wonder if any of these choppers were made by Sikorsky.

Yeah, about that – all the physicists in the world working together couldn’t have changed the fact that there was only one country in the world which could afford building enrichment infrastructure.

The Manchu probably stabilized China, by invading it. It was done opportunely in the period of a civil war. The population of China increased dramatically during the Qing dynasty – though largely as a result of food crops like the potato, sweet potato, and peanut, introduced by Europeans.

Indeed, as an American, I wish there were Jurchen tribesmen to our north, who hadn’t gone soft, and maybe could invade us and undertake some much needed reforms.

Good luck with that. Anti-semites are always claiming the Bolshies were almost entirely Jews, and the Jews are always claiming that’s a lie.

So I once tried to research it and get actual numbers. Very hard to do, and when I posted a request for help finding the information I was severely jumped on.

Apparently one is supposed to simply accept that the association of Jews with Bolshevism is an anti-semitic lie and never try to put numbers to it.

Wow. I keep learning surprising things.

So you think Hjalmar Schacht had the wrong idea?

And resorting to bartering in trade, not having enough foreign currency reserves for even two weeks of trade and transactions?

Sure, it was real. But it was built on a house of cards about to collapse, which is why looting of the rest of the Continent was necessary to prevent that collapse.

It was sort of like a Ponzi scheme, provides real returns to investors, but will crash unless funds are injected from a new source.