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 All / On "Far Abroad"
    In my nearly 20 years experience as a Russian living in the West, I have found that almost all my fellows can be reduced to five basic types: 1) The White Russian; 2) The Sovok Jew; 3) The Egghead Emigre; 4) Natasha Gold-Digger; 5) Putin's Expat. My background and qualifications to write on this topic?...
  • […] communists, and nationalists) Vladimir Putin as a civic nationalist and his economic policies The 5 Types of Russian American Misconception that Americans and Westerners have about Russia The Soviet Parallels of Fishtown’s […]

  • […] communist, and nationalist) Vladimir Putin as a civic nationalist and his economic policies The 5 Types of Russian American Misconception that Americans and Westerners have about Russia The Soviet Parallels of Fishtown’s […]

  • […] communist, and nationalist) Vladimir Putin as a civic nationalist and his economic policies The 5 Types of Russian American Misconception that Americans and Westerners have about Russia The Soviet Parallels of […]

  • @Scowspi
    Hats off, sir – this is another Karlin Klassic post.

    Being now in the Chicago area again after several years in Moscow, I see 4 of your 5 categories in evidence here (in America’s most Slavic city). The missing category is White Russians: there are undoubtedly a few around here, but they are not numerous enough to form a distinct community. My vague impression is that category 2 is the largest, and that many other “Russians” are actually Ukrainian or some other type of post-Soviet. It’s largely a cultural/linguistic identity. It would be interesting to do a regional breakdown as to who lives where. You mentioned Brighton Beach (a rather obvious example), but Orthodox (or White) Russians have formed communities in some places that seem unlikely on the surface, like Florida. (A friend of mine, now a fairly well-known editor/foreign policy analyst, came from a Florida-based Russian family.)

    A minor (but telling) point: Sergei Dovlatov didn’t consider himself a dissident (his political credo was “After Communists, I hate anti-Communists the most”). Also, he was half-Armenian. I mention this just to blur your categories a little.

    “(in America’s most Slavic city)”

    Other Great Lakes cities also have large Polish-American populations.

  • @AP
    Almost every American family has a car - even very many (but not all) poor people. The poor just have old cars that require frequent repairs (so from the perspective of auto ownership poor Americans are like Soviet-era middle class Russians with Moscvitch cars which required frequent repairs even while new). In America there are over 800 cars per thousand people (including elderly and children who cannot drive). I suspect that virtually 100% of people in the top 80% of income own cars, who need them (Manhattanites don't) and even among the poor, half probably have them. Only truly indigent ones - many of whom are chronic mentally ill or alcoholics or junkies - as a rule don't have them.

    You are correct that living without a car in the USA, other than in the urban pockets, is like being handicapped.

    One young civil engineer in my office briefly relied on public transportation and the Zipcar car-sharing service, here in Chicago. I relied on public transportation and the occasional rental myself for about five years when I was a lot younger than I am now, also in Chicago. My aunt and uncle, with three kids, on the Southwest Side, did the same in the 1950s and 1960s (when bus lines ran all night long, and very frequently; only a few still do.) Very few middle class people do this, and in all three cases above, we relented and bought cars, although my aunt and uncle kept up the practice for 20 years, more or less. It’s almost unknown outside the big cities.

  • @AP
    Very nice, very accurate article. I have known all of those types of people you've mentioned, although my wife and many people whom we know are none of those (well, very loosely "eggheads" - students who came in on scholarships rather than adult professors).

    You could also mention the kids of politicians/gangsters who came over in the pre-Putin era, I knew quite a few when I was an undergraduate in the early 90's. These guys' parents paid for their kids' tuition with cash. They never studied, obviously, but bought cars with cash and no drivers' licenses, (in the early 90's the elites' kids could afford new Corollas, not new BMWs), shoplifted like crazy even though they didn't have to, brawled with Americans, listened to Sektor Gaza, used "bled" as every other word, etc. Many returned to Russia or the other republics and their fortunes have grown tremendously since that time. The "eggheads" - students on scholarships, as well as professors, at the university really felt embarrassed by them.

    How much better is a BMW than a Toyota anyway?

  • @Alex
    Oh - forgot the most important "Sovok" quality - they won't call anyone "Sir"

    Sir, or Ma’am, as the case may be, is a good name for someone you don’t know from Adam, or Eve, as the case may be. It’s better than “Hey, you!” I remember a George Will column where he quotes a Frenchman saying, in astonishment, ‘In America, they call waiters “Sir!”‘

  • @reiner Tor
    I don't know how many Indians there were in the Americas at the time of Columbus's arrival, and I'm sure nobody knows much about it (I think most plausible recent estimates put it at around 50 million or so), but I'm sure the other commenter's main point stands: it was the diseases that killed that many Indians, not the white settlers.

    Best recent estimates are 5 to 10 million Indians at contact with Europeans. Disease was the biggest killer. There are now around 5 million Indians “enrolled”as tribal members, probably another 2 million not enrolled, and at least 30 million Americans with Indian blood. Tiger Woods, Jimi Hendrix, and Heather Locklear being examples.

  • @AP
    You can add another group, probably unfamiliar to the circles posting here: Protestant refugees. Many of them are from Ukraine, but they are Russian-speaking. They claimed religious persecution and, probably with the help of politically-connected American coreligionists, didn't have trouble immigrating. They are Bapitsts or Pentacostals, have 6 or more children per family. There are large communities of them in Sacramento, Washington state, North Carolina and western Massachusetts. These people are usually poorly educated, from rural areas. They maintain the Russian language, tend to marry within their communities, but have little in common with, and do not mix with, the types of Rusians you have written about.

    There are groups of Russian and Ukrainian refugees in Alaska who fit this category. They tend to live in rural areas of the state. Their behavior is sometimes pretty barbaric….even by Alaska standards. And yet there’s another interesting group: The Old Believers. They began settling in Oregon in 1938 and now number around 5000 there. While becoming Americanized they’ve maintained many Old Believer cultural traits. I took my driver’s license test in Russian in Woodburn, Oregon. In the late 60s a group of Old Believers, believing they were loosing their ways in Oregon, started a colony in Alaska called Nikolaevsk. There are now several predominantly Old Believer small towns in Alaska. I recently watched a basketball game where the Nikolaevsk girls trounced an Eskimo village school known for its hoops prowess. Old Believer girls in basketball uniforms with no covering over their hair would have been unthinkable 30 years ago. The Russian government has been sending people to Old Believer communities to invite them to return to Russia. I talked to a fisherman who said they’d visited his family and he said “no dice!”

  • @International Jew
    A hundred million Indians?! Are you sure it wasn't billions? Trillions? If you're gonna go big, then go big!

    Were there 100 million people in all of Europe even, in 1492?

    I don’t know how many Indians there were in the Americas at the time of Columbus’s arrival, and I’m sure nobody knows much about it (I think most plausible recent estimates put it at around 50 million or so), but I’m sure the other commenter’s main point stands: it was the diseases that killed that many Indians, not the white settlers.

    • Replies: @Zidar
    Best recent estimates are 5 to 10 million Indians at contact with Europeans. Disease was the biggest killer. There are now around 5 million Indians "enrolled"as tribal members, probably another 2 million not enrolled, and at least 30 million Americans with Indian blood. Tiger Woods, Jimi Hendrix, and Heather Locklear being examples.
  • @yalensis
    Dear Leon:
    A figure of 30 million dead native Americans is too low. Recent studies suggest the entire American continent was fully populated prior to European arrival, possibly as high as 100 o 120 million people. (The same number as there are citizens of the Russian Federation.) There was barely any patch of ground in North America that was not settled and landscaped by thousands of years of native American cultivation.
    Based on this, it would have been impossible for the Europeans to kill that many native Americans, even if they wanted to (which they probably did). To be sure, Europeans had slightly better technology, including gunpowder. But that doesn’t matter much. Humans are smart little monkeys, and technology is instantly transferrable, hence if the settlers had guns, then native Americans would have guns too. (If the settlers had arrived with smart phones, then the Indians would have been using smart phones within, like, 30 minutes.)
    The Indians were better fighters and better organized than the ragtag settlers. Once they got guns they would be unstoppable. Therefore, modern studies suggest that the main killer of Indians was not genocide per se, but rather plague. Plague of unprecedented proportions. (Probably smallpox.) Plague that literally killed 100 million people and conveniently “emptied” the continent for the settlers. There are many links out there supporting this theory.
    After reading about this plague, I did feel somewhat mollified and less critical of the Europeans. Murderous as they were, they did not commit this crime. At least not knowingly. They just brought their germs with them. Recent studies show the plague began immediately upon their arrival, for example all of Squanto’s tribe in Roanoke died off, and he just happened to be the sole survivor because he was busy travelling at the time.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/apocalypic-mysterious-plague-killed-millions-of-native-americans-the-1500s

    A hundred million Indians?! Are you sure it wasn’t billions? Trillions? If you’re gonna go big, then go big!

    Were there 100 million people in all of Europe even, in 1492?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I don't know how many Indians there were in the Americas at the time of Columbus's arrival, and I'm sure nobody knows much about it (I think most plausible recent estimates put it at around 50 million or so), but I'm sure the other commenter's main point stands: it was the diseases that killed that many Indians, not the white settlers.
  • @Leon Lentz
    Concerning your classification item "Sovok Jews": it is an offensive term, because "Sovok" has a negative connotation, in fact, many Jews were dissidents and certainly do not want to be identified with "Sovok". There are those who actually like the former USSR, but would not assume that label because "Sovok" is a term of contempt and the juxtaposition of this term with word " Jew" does sound somewhat anti Semitic. Since you are 10% Jewish and you use this classification, I wonder if there is a subconscious self loathing there?

    Would you please explain the etymology of “Sovok”? Wiktionary says совок is a dustpan, but I sense there’s more to it than that…Sov[ietsky] + ?.

  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Funny, although far too stereotypical. Author seems to have had a bitter personal experience with some Jewish woman and that makes him appear a bit too biased. Not sure what category our family falls into. In the 90s I was hired from Kazan by a German company & after several years working in Eastern Europe was transferred to the US. My wife was born in Boston, her Jewish parents came from Piter. Contrary to the “Sovok Jew” stereotype, they very much dislike USSR and like Russia, although with reservations – love the culture, are rather cautious about the ethnic Russians – it took a while for them to warm up to the prospect of me marrying their daughter. I understand why, too, one didn’t have to be Jewish to observe casual private and government sponsored anti-Semitism in 70s and 80s USSR (a very short sighted and idiotic policy, directed at the segment of population that valued education, and were willing to assimilate, given a chance).

    In my conversations with the people who came here in the 70s (mostly Jewish, but there was also a number of Armenians and Russians) I got a feeling that they aren’t as much “pro-Sovok” as have nostalgic feelings to the time and place of their youth, I’m yet to meet anyone who thinks USSR was a viable country.

    They do, for most part, have a dim view of modern Russia and Putin. I think they have that vivid mental picture of the 90s Russia in mind, and it’s hard for them to realize just how much had changed in the last 10-15 years. As for Putin, I am not sure I have much love for the guy myself; his biggest achievement was to end the 90s and to bring stability and some form of prosperity to the tired populace; but lately he seems to be willingly rocking the boat and trying to boost his ratings at the expense of that very prosperity.

    Anyway, it was a fun read, but does come out as overly simplistic (which is fine) and biased (which is not too cool)

  • Good article. It’s so true )) May be, it is a little bit outdated so far.
    Does anyone know how many Russian-speaking people are in the Bay Area?

  • Interesting article, even though it’s a bit older. Ran across the site recently looking up Ivan Ilyin, and stuck around to read some of the commentary considering recent events. I voted White Russian, though my paternal family history is kind of complicated on the matter considering it’s hard to separate fact from fiction. All I know for sure is that my grandfather’s family came to Pennsylvania in 1920 (the year he was born) to escape the chaos of the Civil War and the approaching Red Army, and assimilated but passed on that we were supposed to support the Tsars.

    BTW, I noticed this group in the Pacific Northwest, but there’s a sizable group of Russian Baptists and Pentecostals up there. I’m not sure how they fit in, but they mostly seem to have come over for religious reasons. I’m not sure if they go back or not.

  • In response to the last part of your article – who was the Jewess that broke your heart?

  • @a
    well its true about my parents, i am Jewish and both of parents r Jewish, but they still say in our day in ussr, i came from uzbekistan and russia and ,i do love/like living in USA more, thouh i may watch some sovok movies but only for entertainment and some haha's , ran from anti Semitism in 1990s in 97 came to Brooklyn, wont change anything 95% is ok in my life

    its like hello ussr is dead and it 99 % devil, anti Jewish, anti Judaism, current russia wants USA to be second/third class, and putin is big puppet master of many minds there

  • well its true about my parents, i am Jewish and both of parents r Jewish, but they still say in our day in ussr, i came from uzbekistan and russia and ,i do love/like living in USA more, thouh i may watch some sovok movies but only for entertainment and some haha’s , ran from anti Semitism in 1990s in 97 came to Brooklyn, wont change anything 95% is ok in my life

    • Replies: @a
    its like hello ussr is dead and it 99 % devil, anti Jewish, anti Judaism, current russia wants USA to be second/third class, and putin is big puppet master of many minds there
  • @Anonymous
    Theres another class that doesnt fit in....many Ive met, they arent political, arent Jews, eggheads, whites, golddiggers, but come here espousing social liberal ideas, even economic liberal ideas but the american dream kicks them in the head, their time here is increasingly spent fighting stereotypes and ignorance by other russian emigres and mostly americans. They begin missing russia, have come to terms with putin, are somewhere between supporters of navalny and putin, even some nationalists, they miss russia, they return. Some after 1-3 yrs, others after 5-10, a few after 15 yrs. What would this class be....it cannot just be my wife. We have friends,a couple in NJ since 1991, they returned after 20 yrs, artistes, not goldiggers, jews, IT, eggheads or whites. Theyre in Piter as we speak. Bring up the American Dream and they may weep or hit you. Theyre conservative, smart, educated. Another friend, none of the above, 13 yrs here, got tired of looking for good work and being on food stamps, he returned to Russia, missing teeth, bitter, detesting Jews and Caucasians. He wears a fanny pack and hates the world.Another, young, 26, defeated, none of the above, on welfare, her ex husband in prison for growing pot, she has two kids and a grandma in Siberia. Shes not political at all. Is there a type that needs to be added? "Disillusioned working class Russians destroyed by America, returning to Russia, head hung low but happy to be in Mother Russias embrace"

    But if they return could they still be called Russian-Amerians? 🙂

    PS. I know a couple such folks, though not closely.

  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Theres another class that doesnt fit in….many Ive met, they arent political, arent Jews, eggheads, whites, golddiggers, but come here espousing social liberal ideas, even economic liberal ideas but the american dream kicks them in the head, their time here is increasingly spent fighting stereotypes and ignorance by other russian emigres and mostly americans. They begin missing russia, have come to terms with putin, are somewhere between supporters of navalny and putin, even some nationalists, they miss russia, they return. Some after 1-3 yrs, others after 5-10, a few after 15 yrs. What would this class be….it cannot just be my wife. We have friends,a couple in NJ since 1991, they returned after 20 yrs, artistes, not goldiggers, jews, IT, eggheads or whites. Theyre in Piter as we speak. Bring up the American Dream and they may weep or hit you. Theyre conservative, smart, educated. Another friend, none of the above, 13 yrs here, got tired of looking for good work and being on food stamps, he returned to Russia, missing teeth, bitter, detesting Jews and Caucasians. He wears a fanny pack and hates the world.Another, young, 26, defeated, none of the above, on welfare, her ex husband in prison for growing pot, she has two kids and a grandma in Siberia. Shes not political at all. Is there a type that needs to be added? “Disillusioned working class Russians destroyed by America, returning to Russia, head hung low but happy to be in Mother Russias embrace”

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    But if they return could they still be called Russian-Amerians? :)

    PS. I know a couple such folks, though not closely.

  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Russian-speaking Israelis are a distinct group here in North America. They tend to mingle more with the Israeli-born immigrants than with Russians. In many cases they have not much in common with those coming directly from the former USSR except for the Russian language. Especially if they spent more than a decade in Israel, and even more if they left the USSR before it fell apart.

  • AK: This comment was left by “Anna,” but for some reason it wasn’t accepted and I didn’t find it in the spam filter. I’m reprinting the email she sent me:

    Lol. In actuality it’s a very skewed gradient. Although your stereotypes are largely correct, there is a tiny number of us that could easily fall through the cracks within your categories. Although mother and I immigrated in 1992, I have not once been part of local Russian kibutz community. Upon arrival I almost immediately have been thrown into forced americanization since none of our distant relatives spoke Russian. Being 15 at the time, I was stuck between a rock and a hard place since none of my high school peer groups accepted me as their own. I felt as if I was one of a kind and I kind of was. Stunningly, 3 years later I was lucky to befriend another Russian girl of similar circumstances. Needless to say we’ve been tight friends since. Though neither one of us fit into either “Russian” or “American” categories, we speak English between ourselves and feel more at home doing so. We associate more closely with Western European immigrants. I have never dated a Russian man. I married an American and our child understands some Russian, learned mostly from Grandma. My mother on the other hand is extreme example of Sovok Russian. We don’t get along; she is of extremely old-school mentality which seems to originate somewhere around post-WWII survival.

  • @Anna
    Im a mix between gold digger, emigre, expat and sovok Jew: came here as married, devoted, got an engineering degree, always think how to fool somebody and was hoping to make lots of money. :)))

    I have always belonged to academia, left USSR in 1989, 9 years in Oxford, 15 years in the US. This analysis leaves a rather disgusting aftertaste.

  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Funny, but imprecise. Let’s take the White Russians, since you are putting yourself in that category and seem a little partial to it. Perhaps, you would be interested in a few minor corrections. As far as I know, all of the philosophers (already a small part of the population) stayed in France. It’s very hard to imagine the cockroach races in Berlin or Paris, at least in that time. You might have been thinking of Constantinople. Then, if we look at the timeframe, you include 1945. That kind of makes everything complicated because of WWII: Russian POWs, people forced into labor, and Nazi collaborators. Most of these people had nothing to do with the White Movement, although, of course, there were also Russian emigrants already living in Europe (who fought on both sides) and some of them ended up coming to the US. And, finally, to be fair to the other categories, you should think of a funnier name. At first I thought Pnin, but I guess that is more suitable for the contemporary inept eggheads that you describe. Vasisualy? I’m sure you can think of something if that doesn’t work.
    As far as the Jews, I have always thought that many wanted to assimilate completely or at least not stand out in Russia and be seen as Russians by others; ironically, they reached this goal in America.

  • @Anonymous
    The last comment in regards to "angry Jew feminists" is ridiculous. You don't know what feminism is and if you call that piece angry or biased you simply know nothing about Russia.

    Out of curiosity, who linked this article on Facebook? My visitor numbers have tripled today thanks to you guys. Thanks.

  • Vi says:

    Post is funny. Especially for that sort of articles dividing everything into 5 categories.
    The piece still looked pretty decent till the end. P.S. regarding “piece by Anna Nemtsova” oozing “angry radical feminism and lesbianism”. WTF?! I would totally agree with Natalia (Aug 2). Did you ever set foot in Russia?!
    Disclaimer: I’m female, so you may try to label me feminist, but don’t try to stick “Jew” – not Jewish, sorry, not lesbian either.
    When I go back to Moscow, it’s very apparent that at my 5’6″ I’m towering over mos of teh man in subway. Try to argue that tall man are all seating: it still will be in support of Anna Nemtsova’s article. 🙂
    Seriously, after US it’s very noticeable that in Russia every man, even short, none-looking, not-well-off, feels he is a catch! I have my theories why, but… well, later.
    My local friend went to 30-year school reunion and saw well-groomed, in-shape women and a couple fat, old-looking, alcoholic men, the rest of men was dead! Came back with round eyes and started taking care of his health like crazy. Is he also an “angry Jew feminist”? His impression was not much different from Anna’s.
    Anna’s description is not a rant, it’s sad reality.

  • I agree the last piece about the Jewish feminist is atrocious. The feminism originate with suffragettes in Britain and US. What do poor Jewish girls have to do with it? Also, I’ve lived in US for 20 yrs, I never heard of the Eggheads going back or the ex-pats going back, sorry.

  • The last comment in regards to “angry Jew feminists” is ridiculous. You don’t know what feminism is and if you call that piece angry or biased you simply know nothing about Russia.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Out of curiosity, who linked this article on Facebook? My visitor numbers have tripled today thanks to you guys. Thanks.
  • My latest for Experts Panel/Voice of Russia: The Panel states, "On future occasions, Russia might well require Washington to cooperate in similar circumstances; and if such is the case, its handling of the Snowden affair could prove decisive as to how Washington chooses to respond." Well, let's imagine this scenario. One fine day, an FSB...
  • I’ll let Mark Safranski, someone who actually has spent large amounts of time around active duty military and top US strategists as opposed to State and USAID bureaucrats, have a word here versus the three letter agency worshipping hive mind:

    http://zenpundit.com/?p=24175#more-24175

  • @Carlo
    The search for Snowden has already caused its first embarrassing diplomatic incident:
    http://rt.com/news/bolivian-president-plane-snowden-577/

    All I can say Anatoly is that more than a year after we were banned from the hive mind we are still living rent free in their heads. Truly they fear the assault from the libertarian Ron/Rand Paul Right more than the usual Anons and lefties.

    Sure they despise Putin and Anonymous but the fiercest hate (and hence the most fear) is reserved for us ‘goldbugs, Paultards/Paulbots’. etc. But Putin has no incentive in bringing the whe rotten NStasiA blackmailing machine down.

    And to think the game has just begun since if any any slight Anon hack is enough to expose Booz Allen Hamilton’s criminal and civil complicity in limitless data mining on citizens, theoretically it is the contractors who represent the soft underbelly of lawfare against the NSA. Onward to litigating traitors to the Republic until they go bankrupt!

  • The search for Snowden has already caused its first embarrassing diplomatic incident:
    http://rt.com/news/bolivian-president-plane-snowden-577/

    • Replies: @Mr. X
    All I can say Anatoly is that more than a year after we were banned from the hive mind we are still living rent free in their heads. Truly they fear the assault from the libertarian Ron/Rand Paul Right more than the usual Anons and lefties.

    Sure they despise Putin and Anonymous but the fiercest hate (and hence the most fear) is reserved for us 'goldbugs, Paultards/Paulbots'. etc. But Putin has no incentive in bringing the whe rotten NStasiA blackmailing machine down.

    And to think the game has just begun since if any any slight Anon hack is enough to expose Booz Allen Hamilton's criminal and civil complicity in limitless data mining on citizens, theoretically it is the contractors who represent the soft underbelly of lawfare against the NSA. Onward to litigating traitors to the Republic until they go bankrupt!

  • @Alex
    The latest Putin's stans on Snowden may seem a parodox. Putin don't want Snowden to harm American interest... Hm... The whole thing is getting pretty clear if one consider what agency Snowden defect from - its NSA! As Sibel Edmonds and other whistleblowers stated for years he main role of NSA is gathering dirt on American political figures - from Congresspeople to presidential candidates to whoever (for the purpose of control)... Imagine that Snowden managed to download lots of dirt on every political figure in USA. Publication of these materials would obviously harm lots of big buys back home. That's why everybody in Washington is this agitated. Obviously Putin would like to keep this dirt and use it rather than letting Snowden publish it through WikiLeaks or any other channel. Thus his statments...

    Alex,

    I am reminded of the old slogan, “Russia has no allies but her army and navy.” As unfortunate as it is, there are good reasons for that…look up the Greek word Orlifka (if I’m reading the Greek right from my Cyrillic):

    http://mobile.businessinsider.com/–within-grasp-and-without-a-shot-fired-putin-can-reverse-300-years-of-russian-mistakes-in-the-mediterranean-2013-3

    Sure you have the Napoleonic and World Wars where Russia played a decisive role in bleeding the central European aggressor but those seem to be more the exception rather than the rule.

    On the positive side, I don’t expect too much from Putin. He is still a politician, after all, not the martyred Tsar.

    But yes, I would love it if Snowden somehow accessed the domestic kompromat files the NSA maintains to back up Russ Tice’s claims that NSA stands for National Stasi Agency (you can make a national security argument that the private lives of those briefed with sufficient clearance MIGHT need to be monitored to prevent a foreign power from blackmailing, ha ha, but that argument won’t fly for obscure Illinois State Senators in 2004 unless Barack Hussein Obama really was an Agency man and Agency diaper baby in which case Wayne ‘crackpot’ Madsen is vindicated). It would blow apart the last lingering arguments of the Fake Right National Security State bots/paid trolls and a certain hivemind that has clashed with our host here. Unfortunately for Snowden if he ever leaked the NSA’s kompromat files he’s as good as dead even if he eventually finds refuge in Abkhazia. I’m convinced either Abkhazia or South Ossetia is Putin’s fallback plan should sneaking Snowden on a Russian cargo jet bound for Angola and then transatlantic to Venezuela fail.

  • Alex says:

    The latest Putin’s stans on Snowden may seem a parodox. Putin don’t want Snowden to harm American interest… Hm… The whole thing is getting pretty clear if one consider what agency Snowden defect from – its NSA! As Sibel Edmonds and other whistleblowers stated for years he main role of NSA is gathering dirt on American political figures – from Congresspeople to presidential candidates to whoever (for the purpose of control)… Imagine that Snowden managed to download lots of dirt on every political figure in USA. Publication of these materials would obviously harm lots of big buys back home. That’s why everybody in Washington is this agitated. Obviously Putin would like to keep this dirt and use it rather than letting Snowden publish it through WikiLeaks or any other channel. Thus his statments…

    • Replies: @Mr. X
    Alex,

    I am reminded of the old slogan, "Russia has no allies but her army and navy." As unfortunate as it is, there are good reasons for that...look up the Greek word Orlifka (if I'm reading the Greek right from my Cyrillic):

    http://mobile.businessinsider.com/--within-grasp-and-without-a-shot-fired-putin-can-reverse-300-years-of-russian-mistakes-in-the-mediterranean-2013-3

    Sure you have the Napoleonic and World Wars where Russia played a decisive role in bleeding the central European aggressor but those seem to be more the exception rather than the rule.

    On the positive side, I don't expect too much from Putin. He is still a politician, after all, not the martyred Tsar.

    But yes, I would love it if Snowden somehow accessed the domestic kompromat files the NSA maintains to back up Russ Tice's claims that NSA stands for National Stasi Agency (you can make a national security argument that the private lives of those briefed with sufficient clearance MIGHT need to be monitored to prevent a foreign power from blackmailing, ha ha, but that argument won't fly for obscure Illinois State Senators in 2004 unless Barack Hussein Obama really was an Agency man and Agency diaper baby in which case Wayne 'crackpot' Madsen is vindicated). It would blow apart the last lingering arguments of the Fake Right National Security State bots/paid trolls and a certain hivemind that has clashed with our host here. Unfortunately for Snowden if he ever leaked the NSA's kompromat files he's as good as dead even if he eventually finds refuge in Abkhazia. I'm convinced either Abkhazia or South Ossetia is Putin's fallback plan should sneaking Snowden on a Russian cargo jet bound for Angola and then transatlantic to Venezuela fail.

  • @Mr. X
    "Personally, the most common refrain (both online and in real life) I’ve heard is whining to the effect that Snowden is a hypocrite for running away to evil China/Russia/Ecuador." If only the hivemind that's calling Snowden a traitor for fleeing to the SVO transit lounge with NSA 'secrets' could muster half as much rage at FEMA for inviting in the Russians, or at least -- it now appears -- having DHS troll patriot and militia types with the 'Russians are doing security for the Super Bowl' disinfo.

    Naturally the hivemind always blames those who fall for the disinfo across the web (tee hee, those stupid conspiracy theorists are at it again), not the Cass Sunstein disciples in the Obama White House and Department of Homeland Security who put it out. After all, Sunstein admitted that the best way to discredit conspiracy theorists would be to create his own:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein#.22Conspiracy_Theories.22_and_government_infiltration

    I wonder if an oligarch could arrange for a private jet flight to Abkhazia direct from SVO, so that he would still dodge Russian ground if not air space. After all the USA doesn't even recognize Abkhazia as a sovereign state, so how can they demand Snowden's extradition from a government that Washington pretends doesn't exist? There are worse places to settle than by the Black Sea...

    And before everyone jumps on the ‘conspiracy theorists’ popas, here’s the ORIGINAL press release from the Emergency Situations Ministry of the Russian Federation, at least before D.C. tells MChs to take it down:

    http://en.mchs.ru/news/item/434203/

    “In addition, the parties approved of U.S.-Russian cooperation in this field in 2013-2014, which envisages exchange of experience including in monitoring and forecasting emergency situations, training of rescuers, development of mine-rescuing and provision of security at mass events.”

    So…blame it on bad English translation, or it’s the DHS/Obama White House trolling the bitter clingers…again.

  • “Personally, the most common refrain (both online and in real life) I’ve heard is whining to the effect that Snowden is a hypocrite for running away to evil China/Russia/Ecuador.” If only the hivemind that’s calling Snowden a traitor for fleeing to the SVO transit lounge with NSA ‘secrets’ could muster half as much rage at FEMA for inviting in the Russians, or at least — it now appears — having DHS troll patriot and militia types with the ‘Russians are doing security for the Super Bowl’ disinfo.

    Naturally the hivemind always blames those who fall for the disinfo across the web (tee hee, those stupid conspiracy theorists are at it again), not the Cass Sunstein disciples in the Obama White House and Department of Homeland Security who put it out. After all, Sunstein admitted that the best way to discredit conspiracy theorists would be to create his own:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein#.22Conspiracy_Theories.22_and_government_infiltration

    I wonder if an oligarch could arrange for a private jet flight to Abkhazia direct from SVO, so that he would still dodge Russian ground if not air space. After all the USA doesn’t even recognize Abkhazia as a sovereign state, so how can they demand Snowden’s extradition from a government that Washington pretends doesn’t exist? There are worse places to settle than by the Black Sea…

    • Replies: @Mr. X
    And before everyone jumps on the 'conspiracy theorists' popas, here's the ORIGINAL press release from the Emergency Situations Ministry of the Russian Federation, at least before D.C. tells MChs to take it down:

    http://en.mchs.ru/news/item/434203/

    "In addition, the parties approved of U.S.-Russian cooperation in this field in 2013-2014, which envisages exchange of experience including in monitoring and forecasting emergency situations, training of rescuers, development of mine-rescuing and provision of security at mass events."

    So...blame it on bad English translation, or it's the DHS/Obama White House trolling the bitter clingers...again.

  • Americans want to read their “minority report”…if they’ve been backgrounded. A list of such persons and reports could lead to a class action against the US govt. Don’t count on Snowden or Assange to come up with the goods.

    Media organizations involved in this mess are not exactly noteworthy for their support of Putin or for bashing US/NATO. I expect the western media and wikileaks will morph Snowden into a “poison pill” propaganda foil against Putin as more of these banal revelations come out.

  • Many politicians in Europe are now demanding the cancellation or postponement of the transatlantic free trade talks. Perhaps Snowden leaked the last bits on the surveillance of European institutions specifically to that effect, after a polite Russian suggestion? I wonder.
    After all he conveniently leaked data on the spying of China precisely when he was in Hongkong..

  • @Glossy
    I wasn't surprised by Snowden's revelations. Of course everything is being recorded. And he has no chance of changing that. Perhaps he's naive enough to think that his leak can end up changing NSA's practices. Or maybe he was subconsciously moved by the desire for fame.

    Publicity-wise this has been good for Russia. I haven't spoken with any Americans who think that Snowden should be punished. The opinions about him that I've heard from real people here run from indifference to admiration. The millions of Americans who consider Snowden a hero are now watching Russia protect him. It's a small PR win.

    But you live in NY. Work in Manhattan. 🙂

    Personally, the most common refrain (both online and in real life) I’ve heard is whining to the effect that Snowden is a hypocrite for running away to evil China/Russia/Ecuador. (The concern trolling over Correa’s “authoritarianism”, which first began with Assange’s defection to its embassy, is also touching). My refrain is that even if we grant that those countries are authoritarian hellholes, Snowden specifically would still be a lot better off as a free man there than he would as an inmate in a US supermax. He is not trying to make himself out as any kind of moral authority personally, so I simply do not see any “hypocrisy” on his part in looking out for his own best interests.

    I entirely agree with you that what he revealed are largely banalities, but that it’s a PR win for Russia nonetheless.

  • I wasn’t surprised by Snowden’s revelations. Of course everything is being recorded. And he has no chance of changing that. Perhaps he’s naive enough to think that his leak can end up changing NSA’s practices. Or maybe he was subconsciously moved by the desire for fame.

    Publicity-wise this has been good for Russia. I haven’t spoken with any Americans who think that Snowden should be punished. The opinions about him that I’ve heard from real people here run from indifference to admiration. The millions of Americans who consider Snowden a hero are now watching Russia protect him. It’s a small PR win.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    But you live in NY. Work in Manhattan. :)

    Personally, the most common refrain (both online and in real life) I've heard is whining to the effect that Snowden is a hypocrite for running away to evil China/Russia/Ecuador. (The concern trolling over Correa's "authoritarianism", which first began with Assange's defection to its embassy, is also touching). My refrain is that even if we grant that those countries are authoritarian hellholes, Snowden specifically would still be a lot better off as a free man there than he would as an inmate in a US supermax. He is not trying to make himself out as any kind of moral authority personally, so I simply do not see any "hypocrisy" on his part in looking out for his own best interests.

    I entirely agree with you that what he revealed are largely banalities, but that it's a PR win for Russia nonetheless.

  • Is discussed at the other blog. To add a couple of things that are Russia specific: (1) We now learn that the FBI had interviewed the older brother at the bequest of an unspecific foreign government – almost certainly Russia. Tamerlan had visited it for 6 months in 2011. I wonder if he established links...
  • More interesting information regarding Uncle Ruslan his Congress of Chechen International run out of his then wife’s CIA agent Fullers house linking it to the notorious terrorist front NGO The Benevolence Foundation and British energy company for British oil interests in Kazakhstan.

    http://beforeitsnews.com/scandals/2013/05/boston-bombers-uncle-aided-chechanterrorists-for-cia-2431240.html?currentSplittedPage=0

    US v. Benevolence International Foundation, et al

    http://www.investigativeproject.org/case/106

    Ruslan Tsarni (Tsarnaev Uncle) Documents

    http://cryptome.org/2013/04/ruslan-tsarni.zip

    Graham Fuller/NY Times 1985-2011 (Ex-CIA-Tsarni)

    http://cryptome.org/2013/04/graham-fuller.zip

  • @Mr. X
    I would only add a few things here, now some weeks removed from the events:

    1) The 'ex' CIA founded/run Jamestown Foundation has vigorously denied that Tamerlane T. ever visited any of their conferences, which is to be expected, and they also note that the godfather of the "Grand Chessboard" strategy of permanently keeping Russia down Z. Bzrezinski is no longer on their board. The former is a response to an article published in Izvestia, the latter almost seems to me a response to the online critics of Jamestown that it's an Amerikansky silovik front for Prometheanism and other strategies of subversion in the former Soviet space.

    2) I saw Michael D. Weiss joked on Twitter that if Menatep Bank was paying for his new Russian translations mag than he wasn't getting paid. Ahem, his paychecks come from the Qataris these days not the empty Khodorkovsky/Berezovsky cupboard. In any case, having previously asked him sarcastically why he doesn't just strap on a suicide vest and go out with a bang alongside his glorious Syrian jihadist brothers, I won't commence further trolling and am thoroughly done with Twitter.

    3) The feds in Boston have finally caught up with reality that few folks find it credible that the brothers acted entirely alone. The White House has doubled down on the Saudi kid being a totally innocent bystander after the photos of Michelle O visiting Al-Harbi (who comes from a terror watch listed family in KSA) in the hospital leaked. The Saudis then released their own 'leak' to the Daily Mail insisting that they warned BigSis, who denies getting any written warning from KSA about Tsaernaev. Score one for Glenn Beck and no wonder the Establishment is so pissed with Beck and Brother Alex right now you don't expose to what extent the Saudis (and their co-Syria jihad funders the Qataris) own Washington it's a big no-no.

    4) Alt media outlets now reporting that Uncle Ruslan was married to the daughter of an American silovik/ex-Reagan Admin spook who resides in Maryland and did some legal work for Kazahks who paid a huge kickback to Prince Andrew by paying gazillions for his overvalued UK real estate. Uncle Ruslan was also allegedly involved in a Chechen compatriots org that raised money for boots during the mid-1990s bound for the Chechen jihadists. The Debka theory that Tamerlane was recruited than turned on his handlers grows more credible...and now that the mother of Tamerlane is saying her son was in regular contact with FBI who monitored his web usage for five years they're all a pack of liars as far as the SWP hive mind is concerned. But of course. Musn't admit at the very least the feds spectacularly dropped the ball on monitoring 'their' informants.

    Part 4 is the most interesting about Fullers daughter marrying the uncle and running a pro-Chechen organisation out of his house something myself and Sibel Edmonds have been saying and covering for years about support and trafficking of Islamic terrorism in Russia and Central Asia including back in 2008 on Karlin own Sublime Oblivion forum at real at is phoney “war on terror” actually is offshoot of Islamic groups that have been recruited and allowed to recruit, promote, finance Muslims to fight in the Balkans, Russia and Central Asia so they can bring that Caspian oil and gas through the Caucasus, Turkey, the Balkans into Europe making Turkey the predominant regional player essentially creating a pan-Turanian Empire.

    http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/1727

    “Most recently, his provocative statement last month that Bosnia and Herzegovina is in the care of his country has caused no reaction in Washington. Bosnia and Herzegovina is entrusted to us, stated Erdoan during a meeting of Justice and Development Party (AK Party) provincial heads held in Ankara on July 11, recalling the alleged statement of the late Bosnian Muslim leader, Alija Izetbegovi, whom Erdoan visited on his deathbed in Sarajevo. He whispered in my ear these phrases: Bosnia is entrusted to you [Turkey]. These places are what remain of the Ottoman Empire, said Erdoan. He went on to describe Izetbegovi as a legendary hero and captain, and to declare that Turkey would put this trust in God with high precision.”

  • @Alexander Mercouris
    There is NO POSSIBILITY that Putin or anyone in the Russian government was in any way responsible for the mayhem in Boston. The idea is absurd. Quite apart from anything else, since when has Putin sought US permission or approval to do what needs to be done in Chechnya and the northern Caucasus?

    Way back in 2001 I made a comment to the one Russian friend I had at that time. I pointed out to him that during the whole history of the Cold War and of the entire East West confrontation the USSR had never launched or contemplated launching a terrorist attack on US territory. I remember how utterly horrified he was at the mere idea. I also pointed out that the 2001 attacks showed that Russia has never been the US's implacable enemy in the way some of the militant jihadi groups are. I pointed out that the US regularly colluded with these groups because of their anti Russian policies (eg. in Afghanistan and Chechnya) and that the 2001 attacks showed that it was purest folly to go on doing so out of some sort of idiot principle that "my enemy's enemy is my friend". He agreed with that too. He was quite a liberal Russian back then (not any more). Obviously Russian liberalism has travelled a lot further down on the road towards becoming a lunatic fringe since then.

    Prior to 9/11 Russia was giving the US/West from intelligence it was gathering from the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance that it helped create and support and Putin was pushing for military action while Taliban representative was trying to have diplomatic talks in the US and with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia trying to get CIA connected oil firm UNOCAL to be part of the oil consortium in 97 that was helping fund the Taliban regime and keeping it in power.

  • Mr. X says: • Website

    I would only add a few things here, now some weeks removed from the events:

    1) The ‘ex’ CIA founded/run Jamestown Foundation has vigorously denied that Tamerlane T. ever visited any of their conferences, which is to be expected, and they also note that the godfather of the “Grand Chessboard” strategy of permanently keeping Russia down Z. Bzrezinski is no longer on their board. The former is a response to an article published in Izvestia, the latter almost seems to me a response to the online critics of Jamestown that it’s an Amerikansky silovik front for Prometheanism and other strategies of subversion in the former Soviet space.

    2) I saw Michael D. Weiss joked on Twitter that if Menatep Bank was paying for his new Russian translations mag than he wasn’t getting paid. Ahem, his paychecks come from the Qataris these days not the empty Khodorkovsky/Berezovsky cupboard. In any case, having previously asked him sarcastically why he doesn’t just strap on a suicide vest and go out with a bang alongside his glorious Syrian jihadist brothers, I won’t commence further trolling and am thoroughly done with Twitter.

    3) The feds in Boston have finally caught up with reality that few folks find it credible that the brothers acted entirely alone. The White House has doubled down on the Saudi kid being a totally innocent bystander after the photos of Michelle O visiting Al-Harbi (who comes from a terror watch listed family in KSA) in the hospital leaked. The Saudis then released their own ‘leak’ to the Daily Mail insisting that they warned BigSis, who denies getting any written warning from KSA about Tsaernaev. Score one for Glenn Beck and no wonder the Establishment is so pissed with Beck and Brother Alex right now you don’t expose to what extent the Saudis (and their co-Syria jihad funders the Qataris) own Washington it’s a big no-no.

    4) Alt media outlets now reporting that Uncle Ruslan was married to the daughter of an American silovik/ex-Reagan Admin spook who resides in Maryland and did some legal work for Kazahks who paid a huge kickback to Prince Andrew by paying gazillions for his overvalued UK real estate. Uncle Ruslan was also allegedly involved in a Chechen compatriots org that raised money for boots during the mid-1990s bound for the Chechen jihadists. The Debka theory that Tamerlane was recruited than turned on his handlers grows more credible…and now that the mother of Tamerlane is saying her son was in regular contact with FBI who monitored his web usage for five years they’re all a pack of liars as far as the SWP hive mind is concerned. But of course. Musn’t admit at the very least the feds spectacularly dropped the ball on monitoring ‘their’ informants.

    • Replies: @johnUK
    @Mr. X

    Part 4 is the most interesting about Fullers daughter marrying the uncle and running a pro-Chechen organisation out of his house something myself and Sibel Edmonds have been saying and covering for years about support and trafficking of Islamic terrorism in Russia and Central Asia including back in 2008 on Karlin own Sublime Oblivion forum at real at is phoney "war on terror" actually is offshoot of Islamic groups that have been recruited and allowed to recruit, promote, finance Muslims to fight in the Balkans, Russia and Central Asia so they can bring that Caspian oil and gas through the Caucasus, Turkey, the Balkans into Europe making Turkey the predominant regional player essentially creating a pan-Turanian Empire.

    http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/1727

    "Most recently, his provocative statement last month that Bosnia and Herzegovina is in the care of his country has caused no reaction in Washington. Bosnia and Herzegovina is entrusted to us, stated Erdoan during a meeting of Justice and Development Party (AK Party) provincial heads held in Ankara on July 11, recalling the alleged statement of the late Bosnian Muslim leader, Alija Izetbegovi, whom Erdoan visited on his deathbed in Sarajevo. He whispered in my ear these phrases: Bosnia is entrusted to you [Turkey]. These places are what remain of the Ottoman Empire, said Erdoan. He went on to describe Izetbegovi as a legendary hero and captain, and to declare that Turkey would put this trust in God with high precision."

  • There is NO POSSIBILITY that Putin or anyone in the Russian government was in any way responsible for the mayhem in Boston. The idea is absurd. Quite apart from anything else, since when has Putin sought US permission or approval to do what needs to be done in Chechnya and the northern Caucasus?

    Way back in 2001 I made a comment to the one Russian friend I had at that time. I pointed out to him that during the whole history of the Cold War and of the entire East West confrontation the USSR had never launched or contemplated launching a terrorist attack on US territory. I remember how utterly horrified he was at the mere idea. I also pointed out that the 2001 attacks showed that Russia has never been the US’s implacable enemy in the way some of the militant jihadi groups are. I pointed out that the US regularly colluded with these groups because of their anti Russian policies (eg. in Afghanistan and Chechnya) and that the 2001 attacks showed that it was purest folly to go on doing so out of some sort of idiot principle that “my enemy’s enemy is my friend”. He agreed with that too. He was quite a liberal Russian back then (not any more). Obviously Russian liberalism has travelled a lot further down on the road towards becoming a lunatic fringe since then.

    • Replies: @johnUK
    Prior to 9/11 Russia was giving the US/West from intelligence it was gathering from the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance that it helped create and support and Putin was pushing for military action while Taliban representative was trying to have diplomatic talks in the US and with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia trying to get CIA connected oil firm UNOCAL to be part of the oil consortium in 97 that was helping fund the Taliban regime and keeping it in power.
  • I’m sure the Establishment Right organs like the Daily Caller will eventually interview those uniformed private security guys caught on video milling about the finish line explaining all the important work they were doing at the Marathon for Craft International. Just so we don’t get any ideas…

    But Anatoly, if you want a sample of how furiously U.S. elites react when the same propaganda techniques they’ve hurled at Russia re tossed back at them, see this rant by Sen. Harry Reid on the Senate floor denouncing ‘false flags’ and people afraid of ‘black helicopters’ who’re allegedly “arming themselves…to fight police…[and] military”. Looks like Potok of the SPLC wrote this speech for him:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRwwwXqghyY
    Avoid the comments, they’re nekulturny

  • Well of course, it’s always been trutherism for me but not for thee with these people i.e. the contrast between Feltshinsky et al being taken seriously versus the 9/11 truthers being scorned and hated. Not that I am a 9/11 truther, but I am very skeptical about the Detroit junk bomber and the reasons as to why we’ll never hear from drugged out of his mind James Holmes regarding any possible accomplices in Aurora or any additional shooters at Sandy Hook. I still have trouble buying even a psychotropic’d out of his mind Adam Lanza could’ve killed all those people, all 110 pounds of him trying to carry an AR, two pistols and very large quantities of ammo.

  • In my nearly 20 years experience as a Russian living in the West, I have found that almost all my fellows can be reduced to five basic types: 1) The White Russian; 2) The Sovok Jew; 3) The Egghead Emigre; 4) Natasha Gold-Digger; 5) Putin's Expat. My background and qualifications to write on this topic?...
  • Im a mix between gold digger, emigre, expat and sovok Jew: came here as married, devoted, got an engineering degree, always think how to fool somebody and was hoping to make lots of money. :)))

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I have always belonged to academia, left USSR in 1989, 9 years in Oxford, 15 years in the US. This analysis leaves a rather disgusting aftertaste.
  • From what I generally knew of contemporary Eastern European attitudes towards Jews (in two words “not good”) I expected that the Russian public’s attitude towards Israel would be decidely frosty, if not outright hostile... But what seems noteworthy to me is not the downward blip in 2006 but the generally high level of Russian support...
  • @Chrisius Maximus
    This is 1926.

    Average evrei in the Russian Empire (mid-1800s say) was poor, rural, with no education above village school, which was mostly religious content. Kaganovich (50 years later) had a fifth-grade education. Now they were better off than serfs, who would have been their peers c. 1850, that is true.

  • @Anatoly Karlin

    This is 1926.

    • Replies: @Chrisius Maximus
    Average evrei in the Russian Empire (mid-1800s say) was poor, rural, with no education above village school, which was mostly religious content. Kaganovich (50 years later) had a fifth-grade education. Now they were better off than serfs, who would have been their peers c. 1850, that is true.
  • My latest for the US-Russia Experts Panel and VoR. In this latest Panel, Vlad Sobell asks us supposed Russia “experts” whether Freedom House’s “alarmist stance” towards Russia is justified. Well, what do YOU think? I don’t think you need to be an expert to answer this; it’s an elementary issue of common sense and face...
  • Dear Anatoly,

    Having read all the various contributions to this discussion I want to say that I think yours was certainly the best. It cuts through all the nonsense and exposes the gross partisanship and absurdity of the Freedom House survey.

    The big question for me is why does Russia so consistently come out at the bottom of these sort of surveys (eg. Freedom House, Trasparency International, university rankings, international credit ratings etc) when any impartial consideration of the facts shows how wrong these surveys are? The other question is do these bad rankings cause Russia harm? The short answer in my opinion is that they definitely do. I know at least one British businessman who told me that his company (the big retailer Tesco) has been deterred from investing in Russia because of the violence and corruption there as reported by Transparency International and the like. I told him that this is completely out of date and that Tesco is missing out on Europe’s fastest growing and potentially biggest consumer market but anything I say was hardly going to change his mind or that of his company. It must also make life harder for the Russian government to try to govern a country like Russia against the background of a constant critical chorus about anything it does. Anyone who has tried to work with a hostile critic lurking constantly in the background will know the feeling.

  • In my nearly 20 years experience as a Russian living in the West, I have found that almost all my fellows can be reduced to five basic types: 1) The White Russian; 2) The Sovok Jew; 3) The Egghead Emigre; 4) Natasha Gold-Digger; 5) Putin's Expat. My background and qualifications to write on this topic?...
  • Warning to Krypniks family Evgeniy Sadomskiy planing to attack Krypiks family Sadomskiys are always fighting they mey rob Krypniks you be aware

  • My latest for the US-Russia Experts Panel and VoR. In this latest Panel, Vlad Sobell asks us supposed Russia “experts” whether Freedom House’s “alarmist stance” towards Russia is justified. Well, what do YOU think? I don’t think you need to be an expert to answer this; it’s an elementary issue of common sense and face...
  • Polity IV is far better than Freedom House, but still have to be taken with a grain of salt. (Plus a 21-point scale from +10 to -10 is just as bizarre–and even more unwieldy for computation than Freedom House’s 7-point scale.) Grr. Ok. Rant over.

  • “In the meantime, Nemtsov is free to continue writing his screeds”

    Nemtsov actually has more access to the American political system than virtually all American citizens…so much for American democracy.

    http://en.rian.ru/world/20130305/179827057/Russia-Accuses-Magnitsky-Boss-Browder-in-Alleged-Gazprom-Fraud.html

  • The Reporters Without Borders rated Russia and Ukraine below Tajikistan on press freedom ratings. So much for objectivity of these “bona fide” Western organisations.

    Since it is blatantly obvious that these organisations and their ratings are not objective, one should in my opinion treat them accordingly.

  • In my nearly 20 years experience as a Russian living in the West, I have found that almost all my fellows can be reduced to five basic types: 1) The White Russian; 2) The Sovok Jew; 3) The Egghead Emigre; 4) Natasha Gold-Digger; 5) Putin's Expat. My background and qualifications to write on this topic?...
  • This is a great masterpiece! I’m all happy that great Peter Lavelle told me about it. It’s so accurate and fun to read! Thank you very much. At least I’ve finally learned that I’m a Putin’s Expat after 14 years in the United States (born in Russia, raised myself in the States). I’ve never appreciated my roots, culture, Russia more than I do now. It was an easy decision to come back to a new Russia and continue my world exploration of my own home country. I just got a little bored of being established and successful in the US without really knowing my modern Russia.
    Very entertaining!!!!!!!!!!:-)

  • I am back to writing for the US-Russia.org Expert Discussion Panel, which since my hiatus has found an additional home at Voice of Russia. The latest topic was on whether Russia, China, and the West could find a common approach to the challenges of the Arab Spring. My response is pessimistic, as in my view...
  • Dear Anatoly,

    I agree with your article. I think your analysis is correct. I don’t think there is any possibility of common ground being found between the US and China/Russia over the Middle East or with respect to the Arab Spring. Besides the whole thrust of US policy ever since the 1950s has been to keep Russia (and China) out of the Middle East and as we have repeatedly seen the US considers this objective so important that it is even prepared to cooperate with its jihadi enemies to achieve this objective in spite of all the other problems this causes. What is astonishing is that this remains so even after the USSR’s collapse and even after the debacle of 9/11.

  • @johnUK
    "Democracy and secular liberalism are not the same thing"

    I don't see the difference by definition the US is supporting and exporting liberal democracy and whether it be Democrat or Republican, Liberal or Conservative based NGO’s they are exclusively liberal in nature supporting and promoting Frankfurt School Professor Karl Poppers notion of an Open Society like open immigration, greater minority rights, rights for sexual minorities, multi-cultural societies, etc.

    Dear Robert,

    I completely agree. It is a persistent liberal assumption that democracy automatically results in a liberal outcome. There is always disillusion and anger when it doesn’t together with a strong tendency to say that the system which has failed to produce such an outcome is not a democracy at all.

  • @Robert
    Democracy and secular liberalism are not the same thing. The classic mistake liberals make is to confuse the democratic process with liberal outcomes. When democracy leads to illiberal outcomes, the liberals start screaming about “populism” and demanding that liberal outcomes be imposed from above.

    So, do you stand for democratic process or liberal outcomes?It does pose a terrible dilemma for those who think it’s the job of imperial armies to go around setting up liberal democracies in every corner of the world.

    Absolutely true about grain prices. If a fragile democracy doesn't put food on the table it's more than likely that the masses will support a Bonapartist figure who promises to sort the problem. In the 2009 Iranian Green rising it's more than likely that Ahmadinejad did win the election because he stood for economic policies that promised to maintain a safety net for the poor and crack down on corruption. Musavi promised to liberalise dress codes but also proposed to cut welfare spending and end overmanning in the bonyad sector which would have cost a lot of people their jobs. Unsurprisingly Ahmadinejad won more votes among the working class. Interestingly Mousavi was responsible for mass executions during the early years of the Iranian revolution. This didn't prevent the Western media supporting him as a reformist as against the bogeyman Ahmadinejad.

    “Democracy and secular liberalism are not the same thing”

    I don’t see the difference by definition the US is supporting and exporting liberal democracy and whether it be Democrat or Republican, Liberal or Conservative based NGO’s they are exclusively liberal in nature supporting and promoting Frankfurt School Professor Karl Poppers notion of an Open Society like open immigration, greater minority rights, rights for sexual minorities, multi-cultural societies, etc.

    • Replies: @Alexander Mercouris
    Dear Robert,

    I completely agree. It is a persistent liberal assumption that democracy automatically results in a liberal outcome. There is always disillusion and anger when it doesn't together with a strong tendency to say that the system which has failed to produce such an outcome is not a democracy at all.

  • Democracy and secular liberalism are not the same thing. The classic mistake liberals make is to confuse the democratic process with liberal outcomes. When democracy leads to illiberal outcomes, the liberals start screaming about “populism” and demanding that liberal outcomes be imposed from above.

    So, do you stand for democratic process or liberal outcomes?It does pose a terrible dilemma for those who think it’s the job of imperial armies to go around setting up liberal democracies in every corner of the world.

    Absolutely true about grain prices. If a fragile democracy doesn’t put food on the table it’s more than likely that the masses will support a Bonapartist figure who promises to sort the problem. In the 2009 Iranian Green rising it’s more than likely that Ahmadinejad did win the election because he stood for economic policies that promised to maintain a safety net for the poor and crack down on corruption. Musavi promised to liberalise dress codes but also proposed to cut welfare spending and end overmanning in the bonyad sector which would have cost a lot of people their jobs. Unsurprisingly Ahmadinejad won more votes among the working class. Interestingly Mousavi was responsible for mass executions during the early years of the Iranian revolution. This didn’t prevent the Western media supporting him as a reformist as against the bogeyman Ahmadinejad.

    • Replies: @johnUK
    "Democracy and secular liberalism are not the same thing"

    I don't see the difference by definition the US is supporting and exporting liberal democracy and whether it be Democrat or Republican, Liberal or Conservative based NGO’s they are exclusively liberal in nature supporting and promoting Frankfurt School Professor Karl Poppers notion of an Open Society like open immigration, greater minority rights, rights for sexual minorities, multi-cultural societies, etc.

  • Keeping up with the Guardian's stream of textual diarrhea in its Russia coverage is a quixotic task, and one that I do not really have the stamina for (although Alex Mercouris does this remarkably effectively). Still, when it comes to certain issues I'm particularly interested in, such as demography, or China-Russians relations as in this...
  • “nor do I have an agenda”

    You have an agenda, though yours is positive and worth respecting.

  • They have to sell to eat, don’t they…and what better than the good old Russo mania…:)

  • In my nearly 20 years experience as a Russian living in the West, I have found that almost all my fellows can be reduced to five basic types: 1) The White Russian; 2) The Sovok Jew; 3) The Egghead Emigre; 4) Natasha Gold-Digger; 5) Putin's Expat. My background and qualifications to write on this topic?...
  • I do agree with all of the concepts you have offered on your post. They’re very convincing and will definitely work. Nonetheless, the posts are very quick for beginners. May just you please extend them a bit from next time? Thank you for the post.

  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Leon Lentz
    These "heady days of democracy" when the tanks shot at the Duma and Berezovsky had headquarters just across Kremlin, CIA was determining what Russia should do and old school teachers were selling cigarettes on the street to supplement their pension. Just like all the other US banana republics. Most of the idiots like Sukashvili and Yuschenko, do not understand that friendship with America means they steal everything from you, leaving you cold and hungry. US has never helped anybody, they have only one goal: make sure there is profit for the rich. Once your insurance runs out, you are out on the sidewalk with your gurney.

    I am going to try and be objective as possible. US over site of Japan and Germany seem to be a very fortunate exception. These countries are increadibly rich and are even able to act on their own if they wish (more so Germany than Japan) But then again the quality of US leaders post-WWII and post Cold War are very different things.

  • Typically when Westerners write about Chinese and Russians they stress the negative aspects of the relationship. Russians are invariably racist towards the Chinese and fear them in xenophobic reaction to their (non-existent) swamping of Siberia. The Chinese for their part laugh at the alcoholic, non-productive Russkies. And quite likely they will soon invade and take...
  • Gotta love the names of some of these Chinese commentators! “A Man Without Complexes” (I didn’t know Robert Musil had been translated into Chinese!), “Onion Welcoming Guests of Huangshan,” “The Carrot is also a Root Vegetable,” and “Papa Clean As A Mirror.” Would be cool to know the origin of some of these.

  • Dear Anatoly,

    Thanks for republishing this. I was strongly tempted to ask you to translate these comments when I saw you mention them on your Facebook page. Knowing how busy you are I decided not to. However you have now done so.

    I have contacts with China going back twenty years, which are far more extensive than those I have with Russia. At this precise moment as I write my father is hosting a delegation from the Chinese Culture Ministry in my house in Athens. I have often heard Chinese businessmen and officials talk about Russia and Russians and their comments right from the time when I first started to get to know them have been overwhelmingly and strongly positive. On the one or two occasions when I have touched on the bad feelings at the time of the Sino Soviet split of the 1960s and 1970s I have been told that this was a question of inter state politics at high government level and never affected feelings towards Russia on the part of the overwhelming majority of Chinese.

    As for the talk of China expanding into Siberia that is a paranoid fantasy that is being heavily promoted by some people in the west who do not want to China and Russia become friends. Within Russia it is then recycled by the west’s paid chorus and unfortunately by a few nationalists who should know better. I can categorically say that no one in China holds to these fantasies.

  • It wasn’t that long ago, though, when the rewards of corrupt practices in Russia was the firing squad. I well remember the infamous case concerning Yuri K. Sokolov, director of Gastronom №1 on the former Gorky St., now known by its pre-October 1917 name “Eliseevsky” and situated on the likewise renamed Tverskaya St., who was executed in 1984 after he had been found guilty of fiddling the books for years.

    See: http://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/17/world/ex-supplier-of-moscow-s-epicures-reported-executed-for-corruption.html

  • @AM
    Much appreciated... but let's not forget that China is a much poorer country - not hard for Russia to be an example of good governance in comparison.

    Still, the Chinese get some points for the “tainted milk” scandal, a couple years ago, in which they actually shot a couple of corrupt bureaucrats. The lazy Krymsk officials won’t be shot, though, just serve some jail time. A lot of credit is due to Bastrykin whose office conducted a very quick, and thorough, investigation of official misconduct during the flooding.

  • Much appreciated… but let’s not forget that China is a much poorer country – not hard for Russia to be an example of good governance in comparison.

    • Replies: @yalensis
    Still, the Chinese get some points for the "tainted milk" scandal, a couple years ago, in which they actually shot a couple of corrupt bureaucrats. The lazy Krymsk officials won't be shot, though, just serve some jail time. A lot of credit is due to Bastrykin whose office conducted a very quick, and thorough, investigation of official misconduct during the flooding.
  • From what I generally knew of contemporary Eastern European attitudes towards Jews (in two words “not good”) I expected that the Russian public’s attitude towards Israel would be decidely frosty, if not outright hostile... But what seems noteworthy to me is not the downward blip in 2006 but the generally high level of Russian support...
  • The fact of the matter is, the mainstream Jewish community has pivotted around
    Zionism and the pro-Zionist appeal to a certain reading of events of the Second World War for the past few generations,
    So it is inevitable that anti-Zionists will be labelled anti-semites in such an atmosphere.

  • @Ni123
    "Is something wrong with the Balkans?"

    (Anatoly, I apologize for yet another posting on IQ)
    Yeap, there probably is. Long history of inbreeding.
    http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2012/06/long-ibd-gives-clues-to-migrations.html

  • @AP
    The best way to look for genetic links between IQ and intelligence is adoption studies (because in addition to nutrition, culture, poverty, etc. impact IQ). Are there differences between black kids taken from infancy and white kids taken from infancy and both raised in the same environment (keep in mind, even such studies may be flawed because they don't take into account prenatal care)? The results of such studies have been mixed and do not support the idea that there are large genetic differences between races in terms of IQ. Wikipedia summarizes this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Uniform_rearing_conditions

    Somewhat unrelated, but educational achievement correlates with IQ. PISA scores for African-Americans are higher than for Romanian, Albanians, Montenegrans and Bulgarians:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is-destiny-in-education-too-but-washington-doesnt-want-you-to-k

    Is something wrong with the Balkans?

    (btw, the author of that article mentioned you here, AK: http://isteve.blogspot.com/2012/04/pisa-scores-by-region-in-russia-and.html)

    “Is something wrong with the Balkans?”

    (Anatoly, I apologize for yet another posting on IQ)
    Yeap, there probably is. Long history of inbreeding.
    http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2012/06/long-ibd-gives-clues-to-migrations.html

    • Replies: @Ni123
    My bad, I meant to post this link
    http://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2012/07/01/ibd-runs-of-homozygosity-and-historic-mating-patterns-in-europe/#comments
  • @Mr. X
    I for one find genuine Jewish supremacists (as opposed to those who're merely comfortable admitting IQ may be why Jews punch so far above their demographic weight) significantly rarer than Mexican supremacists aka advocates of total amnesty for illegals who slip across our borders while keeping all those damn Asians out. Because that's what La Raza/MeCHA are.

    But then again, I don't live in a neighborhood with Jewish supremacists but Mexicans who blast everyone with umpah Ranchero ballads that consist of accordion/tuba music stolen from my German ancestors who came to the Americas and long since abandoned by their descendants. That's why when Anatoly gets criticized by trolls for calling Mexican women on average fat (or at least the ones in the U.S.) despite the statistics backing him up that Mexico is rapidly approaching the U.S. for the most fat people on earth, I can sympathize.

    I am not, in any case, an anti-Semite. I actually admire Israelis for what they create rather than merely for the fact that Islamists hate them like they hate everyone who isn’t Islamist. However I think much of the legendary Israeli curtness, directness, to the pointedness, and even the Slavic hotness of some of their leading ladies (how many American Jewish supermodels are there currently? Maybe there were some in the 60s-70s) owes to their ancestry in the Pale of Settlement.

  • @Anatoly Karlin
    "as well as the value of 1 std=8pts..." - The S.D. is almost always set to 15 in IQ tests.

    yalensis is quite obviously not an anti-Semite but a racial egalitarianist.

    I for one find genuine Jewish supremacists (as opposed to those who’re merely comfortable admitting IQ may be why Jews punch so far above their demographic weight) significantly rarer than Mexican supremacists aka advocates of total amnesty for illegals who slip across our borders while keeping all those damn Asians out. Because that’s what La Raza/MeCHA are.

    But then again, I don’t live in a neighborhood with Jewish supremacists but Mexicans who blast everyone with umpah Ranchero ballads that consist of accordion/tuba music stolen from my German ancestors who came to the Americas and long since abandoned by their descendants. That’s why when Anatoly gets criticized by trolls for calling Mexican women on average fat (or at least the ones in the U.S.) despite the statistics backing him up that Mexico is rapidly approaching the U.S. for the most fat people on earth, I can sympathize.

    • Replies: @Mr. X
    I am not, in any case, an anti-Semite. I actually admire Israelis for what they create rather than merely for the fact that Islamists hate them like they hate everyone who isn't Islamist. However I think much of the legendary Israeli curtness, directness, to the pointedness, and even the Slavic hotness of some of their leading ladies (how many American Jewish supermodels are there currently? Maybe there were some in the 60s-70s) owes to their ancestry in the Pale of Settlement.
  • @Alexander Mercouris
    Adomanis's comments in no way surprise me since it has always been my view that the extent of anti semitic feeling in Russia has always been vastly exaggerated. There was a certain period in the nineteenth century when anti semitic feeling was prevalent in court and government circles but if there was an actual policy to use anti semitism to mobilise support for the tsarist government (which is doubtful) then all one can say is that it was an abject failure. For the rest no government anywhere had as many Jews in senior positions as did the Russian government in the period from 1917 to the emergence of the state of Israel in 1948 and there is no evidence that this fact had in itself any bearing on the degree of support enjoyed by that government during this period.

    As for policy towards Israel, this has varied from strongly supportive in 1947 to 1948, hostile from 1948 to 1953, formally correct from 1953 to 1967, strongly hostile from 1967 to 1988 and reasonably close from 1988 to the present day.

    There is no reason for Russia to change its current policy towards Israel and the history of Russia's relations with the Arab world shows why. Russia gave utterly vital support to the Arabs in 1967 and 1973 in answer to the earnest pleas of the Egyptian government and the governments of the other Arab states, actually sending troops to Egypt in 1969 to secure Egypt's frontiers and airspace from Israeli attack. Russia's reward after 1974 was to become the target of a relentless campaign of vilification and abuse orchestrated by all the most important Arab governments, Egypt's first and foremost. Egypt in fact expelled its Russian advisers, doing so in the most public and humiliating way imaginable, refused to honour its Russian debts, concluded a peace treaty with Israel which pointedly excluded Moscow and enthusiastically armed together with the other Arab states the anti Russian rebels in Afghanistan. As for the remaining Arab states, for all their big talk about Palestine and Israel their actual actions show that they are and always have been far more hostile to Russia than to Israel. The various Arab Islamicist condotierre have for example always rushed to join anti Russian jihads in Afghanistan and the northern Caucasus whilst showing absolutely no interest in fighting Israel. Given that this is so why should Russia not pursue good relations with Israel and why should Russians have hostile feelings towards that country?

    I would vouch that there was an institutionalized anti Semitism in the USSR in 1967-1985 and it wasn’t at the time you are refering to. If you lived in the USSR at that time as an adult and were Jewish or had Jewish friends, you would know. Yalensis is belligerently ignorant about Soviet anti Semitism or actually anti Semitic, I do not know what is worse. What would prevent him from studying literature, starting with memoirs of Novikov, Gelfand, etc.

  • @Ni123
    "Yalensis has denied a very well known fact that USSR had institutionalized, State sponsored, anti Semitism"

    I grew up in the USSR. When it collapsed I was 16 y.o. I cannot argue what you're saying because I simply don't have any verifiable information in my possession to argue your statement. But from what I recall my music teacher was a Jew, my English private teacher was a Jew, our family dentist was a Jew, quite a few of my classmates were Jews, my grandmother's multiple friends were Jews and I cannot recall any outrageous anti-Semitism towards them not from my family nor from the others. All of them had nice jobs, they were wealthy enough and prosperous enough.
    So if you call this an"institutionalized, State sponsored, anti Semitism" than you probably need to verify the definition of "anti Semitism".

    By an institutionalized anti Semitism I do not mean that all Jews who were hired before 1967, were suddenly fired. What I mean is that enrollment in MGU and Fiztech and other prestigious universities went from 50% to 1% in one year, VAK threw out 90% of dissertations defended by Jews, while before the percentage of rejections was about 1-2%, it was difficult to find a good research job and Jews were music teachers with a talent to be top notch performers. To prove my point, those who emigrated to US became University professors, highly paid musicians, top notch engineers. Many world famous mathematicians never became academicians even though they got Fields medals (equivalent of math Nobel) . When they emigrated, they became the world leading professors at the top Universities. Many average Jews with University degrees couldn’t find a job or couldn’t publish. I had 6 publications in the most prestigious Soviet math journals, solving a long standing problem in math, by the age 19, but my scientiic advisor was told I will never be admitted to a graduate school, a Jew to be admitted to a graduate school had to be a Communist party member, so I left for US, even though I was not really Jewish, just a Jewish last name, of which I am very proud and I never said to anybody that I wasn’t, so they always assumed that I was, good for me, to be considered Jewish is a great honor. My advisor, has recommended that I get a ffirst prize award for my discovery and publications and he was told to never present people with such last names for awards anymore. In US, I found out that I did not have to work very hard to get a Ph.D. and a tenured position as a professor. It was also very easy to publish. Money was never a problem, not for a second. Just had to live in a concrete jungle and drive a car everywhere. Even Gentiles who had a scientiic position at that time, 1967-1985 would tell you the Jews were discriminated against, even though they still had disproportionatey high percentage of intellectual jobs. In the math olympiad in Moscow, 50-60% of all awards were given to Jews, despite the fact that only 2% of moscovites were Jewish, but in Kiev it was almost none. Apparently, anti Semitism was stronger there. A friend of mine told me, his papers were always lost in Kiev olympiad until he moved to Moscow and became the USSR champion in the 10th grade math. Another Jewish friend of mine, solved a famous open problem, but wasn’t confirmed in his dissertation defence, when he emigrated to US, he got a tenure at an Ivy league school very shortly. Israel Gelfand, arguably the greatest 20th century mathematician, did not become an academician until 1990, he was routinely blocked by the anti Semitic establishment in the Academy of Sciences, as well as the score of other Jews who solved Hilbert problems such as Arnold, Gelfond (not Gelfand), etc. I think to deny there was persecution/discrimination of Jews in 1967-1985 is the same as to deny the Holocaust. Everybody who lived through it remembers.

  • P.S.
    Funny discussion of intelligence and relative IQ:
    Kevin Klein: “Apes don’t read philosophy.”
    Jamie Lee Curtis: “Yes they do, Otto. They just don’t understand it!”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5IQnQhzMSI&feature=related

  • anderMercouris, continuing above thread:”The first paragraph of the above comment should say that descriptions of Yalensis as anti semitic are definitely NOT merited.” Ha ha! Thanks, Alexander, that’s okay, your typo made me laugh because I knew what you meant. And no, I am not anti-Semitic at all. Thanks for defending me against that unfair accusation.
    🙂

  • @AP
    The best way to look for genetic links between IQ and intelligence is adoption studies (because in addition to nutrition, culture, poverty, etc. impact IQ). Are there differences between black kids taken from infancy and white kids taken from infancy and both raised in the same environment (keep in mind, even such studies may be flawed because they don't take into account prenatal care)? The results of such studies have been mixed and do not support the idea that there are large genetic differences between races in terms of IQ. Wikipedia summarizes this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Uniform_rearing_conditions

    Somewhat unrelated, but educational achievement correlates with IQ. PISA scores for African-Americans are higher than for Romanian, Albanians, Montenegrans and Bulgarians:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is-destiny-in-education-too-but-washington-doesnt-want-you-to-k

    Is something wrong with the Balkans?

    (btw, the author of that article mentioned you here, AK: http://isteve.blogspot.com/2012/04/pisa-scores-by-region-in-russia-and.html)

    Thanks, but I know; Sailer and I sometimes exchange emails.

    There’s many exceptions to general rules in HBD/IQ, however I prefer to focus on them at my other blog as this one is about Russia after all.

  • @Ni123
    "female’s IQ is lower than whites’"
    No "edit" here? How inconvenient. what I meant was "females' IQ is lower than males' " :)

    AP is correct; male and female IQ’s are about the same. (Males do however have a broader distribution so there are significantly more male morons and male geniuses than their female counterparts; this makes sense in evolutionary terms as men are far more disposable and nature can more afford to do experiments on them).

    There is however a significant difference in the structure of male and female IQ. Males tend to be higher on visuo-spatial. This is correlated with being good at math hence the much higher prevalence of males in math-heavy science and computing work. Females are relatively better than men at verbal IQ. That is no doubt why in the literate arts they have posed some competition to males from Murasaki Shikibu to J.K. Rowling.

  • @Alexander Mercouris
    Dear Leo,

    One should steer away from allegations of anti semitism except when they are clearly merited and in Yalensis's case they certainly are merited and are definitely not true.

    I should say that my view of history and yours differs radically in many places. For example I do not agree that the two big revolutionary parties in tsarist Russia, the Socialist Revolutionaries and the Social Democrats were under Jewish ideological influence. I do not know what "Jewish ideology" is. Anyway the Socialist Revolutionaries had their origins in the far left Russian terrorist groups and movements of the 1860s and 1870s such as the People's Will which were emphatically Russian and not Jewish (a disproportionate number of their members were the children of Orthodox priests). As for the Social Democrats the influence here was German not Jewish and the first important Russian Marxist and the founder of the Russian Social Democrats, Georgy Plekhanov, was emphatically a Russian not a Jew. There was a disproportionately large number of Jews amongst the senior leaders of the Russian Social Democrats (less so amongst the Socialist Revolutionaries), a fact by the way that strongly refutes the view of widespread anti semitism amongst the Russian lower classes, but the Social Democrats were never a Jewish dominated party and as is well know the Jewish socialist party in tsarist Russia known as the Jewish Bund was refused admission into the Social Democrats when it insisted on maintaining its independent organisation and identity.

    As for it being a well known fact that the USSR had institutionalised anti semitism, that is a widely held opinion rather than a fact. Certainly it is an opinion that is difficult to reconcile with the first decades of the Soviet government. Three of Lenin's closest associates in the Bolshevik party and in the Soviet government, Zinoviev, the head of the Comintern and the party chief in Petrograd, Sverdlov, the first Soviet head of state and Kamenev, Sverdlov's successor, were Jewish. Lenin's first Foreign Minister and subsequent Defence Minister, Trotsky, was Jewish. So was Lenin's Finance Minister during the NEP period Sokolnikov.

    As for Stalin one of his closest associates Kaganovich was Jewish, the wife of his other close associate, Molotov, Polina Zhemchugina, was Jewish and a minister in the Soviet government in her own right, as was the second wife of his dreaded secret police chief, Yezhov. Of Stalin's other officials, his longest serving Foreign Minister, Litvinov, was Jewish as was one of his other secret police chiefs, Yagoda, and one of his wartime Marshals, Chernyakhovsky. As is well know Stalin also employed extensively important Jewish cultural figures to propagandise his policies, first and foremost the film director Sergei Eisenstein and the writer and publicist Ilya Ehrenburg.

    As for the Doctors' Plot, the motivations for it are obscure and it is far clear whether those who were arrested were arrested because some of them were Jews or (which is actually more likely) because all of them were doctors and there happened a disproportionate number of senior doctors at that time in the USSR who were Jews. If it was intended as the start of an anti semitic campaign (for which there is in fact no evidence in anything Stalin himself ever said) then it must be considered a complete failure because it achieved no resonance amongst the wider Soviet public and was immediately abandoned after Stalin's death when all the persons arrested were released and rehabilitated.

    There is no doubt that a shift did take place after the Six Day War in 1967 with Soviet hostility to Israel resulting in a number of deeply unpleasant anti semitic individuals on the fringes of the Soviet political and literary establishment coming out of the woodwork and tensions between the USSR and Israel and the effect of Jewish emigration causing tensions between Jews and the Soviet authorities to an extent that had simply not been the case before. However I personally would not describe even this period as one of "institutionalised anti semitism" as any comparison with the genuinely institutionalised anti semitism of pre Second World War central and eastern Europe shows.

    Just to clarify I have an eyesight problem (my left eye is clouded and lazy) and I occasionally miss words. The first paragraph of the above comment should say that descriptions of Yalensis as anti semitic are definitely not merited.

  • @Leon Lentz
    Yalensis has denied a very well known fact that USSR had institutionalized, State sponsored, anti Semitism, (he possibly thought that "Physicians' case" was true and Stalin and Hitler were "social egalitarianists"). According to Yalensis, I am "always wrong about everything". If so, he probably would disagree with my statement that he (Yalensis) and a retarded Neanderthal have quite disparate IQs.
    I had a friend who was always wrong about stock market and I made some money placing trades opposite to what he suggested. Following this strategy, one can sweep up the whole stock market. I suggest Yalensis follow his own ideas and place trades opposite to what I suggest. He would simultaneously convince himself of his thesis and make money, which he can donate to his favorite Jew/Israel hating entity.

    Dear Leo,

    One should steer away from allegations of anti semitism except when they are clearly merited and in Yalensis’s case they certainly are merited and are definitely not true.

    I should say that my view of history and yours differs radically in many places. For example I do not agree that the two big revolutionary parties in tsarist Russia, the Socialist Revolutionaries and the Social Democrats were under Jewish ideological influence. I do not know what “Jewish ideology” is. Anyway the Socialist Revolutionaries had their origins in the far left Russian terrorist groups and movements of the 1860s and 1870s such as the People’s Will which were emphatically Russian and not Jewish (a disproportionate number of their members were the children of Orthodox priests). As for the Social Democrats the influence here was German not Jewish and the first important Russian Marxist and the founder of the Russian Social Democrats, Georgy Plekhanov, was emphatically a Russian not a Jew. There was a disproportionately large number of Jews amongst the senior leaders of the Russian Social Democrats (less so amongst the Socialist Revolutionaries), a fact by the way that strongly refutes the view of widespread anti semitism amongst the Russian lower classes, but the Social Democrats were never a Jewish dominated party and as is well know the Jewish socialist party in tsarist Russia known as the Jewish Bund was refused admission into the Social Democrats when it insisted on maintaining its independent organisation and identity.

    As for it being a well known fact that the USSR had institutionalised anti semitism, that is a widely held opinion rather than a fact. Certainly it is an opinion that is difficult to reconcile with the first decades of the Soviet government. Three of Lenin’s closest associates in the Bolshevik party and in the Soviet government, Zinoviev, the head of the Comintern and the party chief in Petrograd, Sverdlov, the first Soviet head of state and Kamenev, Sverdlov’s successor, were Jewish. Lenin’s first Foreign Minister and subsequent Defence Minister, Trotsky, was Jewish. So was Lenin’s Finance Minister during the NEP period Sokolnikov.

    As for Stalin one of his closest associates Kaganovich was Jewish, the wife of his other close associate, Molotov, Polina Zhemchugina, was Jewish and a minister in the Soviet government in her own right, as was the second wife of his dreaded secret police chief, Yezhov. Of Stalin’s other officials, his longest serving Foreign Minister, Litvinov, was Jewish as was one of his other secret police chiefs, Yagoda, and one of his wartime Marshals, Chernyakhovsky. As is well know Stalin also employed extensively important Jewish cultural figures to propagandise his policies, first and foremost the film director Sergei Eisenstein and the writer and publicist Ilya Ehrenburg.

    As for the Doctors’ Plot, the motivations for it are obscure and it is far clear whether those who were arrested were arrested because some of them were Jews or (which is actually more likely) because all of them were doctors and there happened a disproportionate number of senior doctors at that time in the USSR who were Jews. If it was intended as the start of an anti semitic campaign (for which there is in fact no evidence in anything Stalin himself ever said) then it must be considered a complete failure because it achieved no resonance amongst the wider Soviet public and was immediately abandoned after Stalin’s death when all the persons arrested were released and rehabilitated.

    There is no doubt that a shift did take place after the Six Day War in 1967 with Soviet hostility to Israel resulting in a number of deeply unpleasant anti semitic individuals on the fringes of the Soviet political and literary establishment coming out of the woodwork and tensions between the USSR and Israel and the effect of Jewish emigration causing tensions between Jews and the Soviet authorities to an extent that had simply not been the case before. However I personally would not describe even this period as one of “institutionalised anti semitism” as any comparison with the genuinely institutionalised anti semitism of pre Second World War central and eastern Europe shows.

    • Replies: @Alexander Mercouris
    Just to clarify I have an eyesight problem (my left eye is clouded and lazy) and I occasionally miss words. The first paragraph of the above comment should say that descriptions of Yalensis as anti semitic are definitely not merited.
  • @Leon Lentz
    Yalensis has denied a very well known fact that USSR had institutionalized, State sponsored, anti Semitism, (he possibly thought that "Physicians' case" was true and Stalin and Hitler were "social egalitarianists"). According to Yalensis, I am "always wrong about everything". If so, he probably would disagree with my statement that he (Yalensis) and a retarded Neanderthal have quite disparate IQs.
    I had a friend who was always wrong about stock market and I made some money placing trades opposite to what he suggested. Following this strategy, one can sweep up the whole stock market. I suggest Yalensis follow his own ideas and place trades opposite to what I suggest. He would simultaneously convince himself of his thesis and make money, which he can donate to his favorite Jew/Israel hating entity.

    “Yalensis has denied a very well known fact that USSR had institutionalized, State sponsored, anti Semitism”

    I grew up in the USSR. When it collapsed I was 16 y.o. I cannot argue what you’re saying because I simply don’t have any verifiable information in my possession to argue your statement. But from what I recall my music teacher was a Jew, my English private teacher was a Jew, our family dentist was a Jew, quite a few of my classmates were Jews, my grandmother’s multiple friends were Jews and I cannot recall any outrageous anti-Semitism towards them not from my family nor from the others. All of them had nice jobs, they were wealthy enough and prosperous enough.
    So if you call this an”institutionalized, State sponsored, anti Semitism” than you probably need to verify the definition of “anti Semitism”.

    • Replies: @Leon Lentz
    By an institutionalized anti Semitism I do not mean that all Jews who were hired before 1967, were suddenly fired. What I mean is that enrollment in MGU and Fiztech and other prestigious universities went from 50% to 1% in one year, VAK threw out 90% of dissertations defended by Jews, while before the percentage of rejections was about 1-2%, it was difficult to find a good research job and Jews were music teachers with a talent to be top notch performers. To prove my point, those who emigrated to US became University professors, highly paid musicians, top notch engineers. Many world famous mathematicians never became academicians even though they got Fields medals (equivalent of math Nobel) . When they emigrated, they became the world leading professors at the top Universities. Many average Jews with University degrees couldn't find a job or couldn't publish. I had 6 publications in the most prestigious Soviet math journals, solving a long standing problem in math, by the age 19, but my scientiic advisor was told I will never be admitted to a graduate school, a Jew to be admitted to a graduate school had to be a Communist party member, so I left for US, even though I was not really Jewish, just a Jewish last name, of which I am very proud and I never said to anybody that I wasn't, so they always assumed that I was, good for me, to be considered Jewish is a great honor. My advisor, has recommended that I get a ffirst prize award for my discovery and publications and he was told to never present people with such last names for awards anymore. In US, I found out that I did not have to work very hard to get a Ph.D. and a tenured position as a professor. It was also very easy to publish. Money was never a problem, not for a second. Just had to live in a concrete jungle and drive a car everywhere. Even Gentiles who had a scientiic position at that time, 1967-1985 would tell you the Jews were discriminated against, even though they still had disproportionatey high percentage of intellectual jobs. In the math olympiad in Moscow, 50-60% of all awards were given to Jews, despite the fact that only 2% of moscovites were Jewish, but in Kiev it was almost none. Apparently, anti Semitism was stronger there. A friend of mine told me, his papers were always lost in Kiev olympiad until he moved to Moscow and became the USSR champion in the 10th grade math. Another Jewish friend of mine, solved a famous open problem, but wasn't confirmed in his dissertation defence, when he emigrated to US, he got a tenure at an Ivy league school very shortly. Israel Gelfand, arguably the greatest 20th century mathematician, did not become an academician until 1990, he was routinely blocked by the anti Semitic establishment in the Academy of Sciences, as well as the score of other Jews who solved Hilbert problems such as Arnold, Gelfond (not Gelfand), etc. I think to deny there was persecution/discrimination of Jews in 1967-1985 is the same as to deny the Holocaust. Everybody who lived through it remembers.
  • @kirill
    The Nobel Prize is hardly an objective metric of intelligence. It is a metric of western bias towards the un-west. Starting with Mendeleev.

    I would have to agree with that. It would make sense to assume that at least the Nobel Committee is not biased toward Jews and evaluate separately percentage of Nobel Prizes given to Russian Jews vs the Russians in general and do the same for the US.

  • @yalensis
    "yalensis is quite obviously not an anti-Semite but a racial egalitarianist"
    Not even that. I don't believe that all people were "created" equal, but I do believe they should all be "treated" equal, in terms of civil rights, access to economic resources, and so on.
    At the same time (maybe a contradiction, I’m not sure), I do believe that in just about every society just about every job or position should be based on a meritocratist civil service exam. This does not contradict the occasional use of quotas to correct imbalances. For example, if there are 10 jobs of a particular rank, and 100 qualified applicants who passed the exam, then why not ensure that the 10 who are ultimately picked are diverse (based on whatever criteria) rather than all from the same group?
    Also, for the record, I do believe that Jews are, on average, more intelligent than other “races” (although Leon Lentz is obviously a striking exception to that rule, since he is ALWAYS wrong about everything). Hence, I quoted that bit about “dumb Jews” in WWI as a debating point to debunk the notion of IQ tests as valid indicators of intelligence. However, as I am reading and learning more, I am starting to come around a bit and maybe admit these tests have some validity. But I am going to need some more convincing. For example, since the IQ tests are in written form, they heavily depend on (1) literacy, (2) fluency of the particular language in question, and (3) ability to focus and follow instructions.

    Yalensis has denied a very well known fact that USSR had institutionalized, State sponsored, anti Semitism, (he possibly thought that “Physicians’ case” was true and Stalin and Hitler were “social egalitarianists”). According to Yalensis, I am “always wrong about everything”. If so, he probably would disagree with my statement that he (Yalensis) and a retarded Neanderthal have quite disparate IQs.
    I had a friend who was always wrong about stock market and I made some money placing trades opposite to what he suggested. Following this strategy, one can sweep up the whole stock market. I suggest Yalensis follow his own ideas and place trades opposite to what I suggest. He would simultaneously convince himself of his thesis and make money, which he can donate to his favorite Jew/Israel hating entity.

    • Replies: @Ni123
    "Yalensis has denied a very well known fact that USSR had institutionalized, State sponsored, anti Semitism"

    I grew up in the USSR. When it collapsed I was 16 y.o. I cannot argue what you're saying because I simply don't have any verifiable information in my possession to argue your statement. But from what I recall my music teacher was a Jew, my English private teacher was a Jew, our family dentist was a Jew, quite a few of my classmates were Jews, my grandmother's multiple friends were Jews and I cannot recall any outrageous anti-Semitism towards them not from my family nor from the others. All of them had nice jobs, they were wealthy enough and prosperous enough.
    So if you call this an"institutionalized, State sponsored, anti Semitism" than you probably need to verify the definition of "anti Semitism".

    , @Alexander Mercouris
    Dear Leo,

    One should steer away from allegations of anti semitism except when they are clearly merited and in Yalensis's case they certainly are merited and are definitely not true.

    I should say that my view of history and yours differs radically in many places. For example I do not agree that the two big revolutionary parties in tsarist Russia, the Socialist Revolutionaries and the Social Democrats were under Jewish ideological influence. I do not know what "Jewish ideology" is. Anyway the Socialist Revolutionaries had their origins in the far left Russian terrorist groups and movements of the 1860s and 1870s such as the People's Will which were emphatically Russian and not Jewish (a disproportionate number of their members were the children of Orthodox priests). As for the Social Democrats the influence here was German not Jewish and the first important Russian Marxist and the founder of the Russian Social Democrats, Georgy Plekhanov, was emphatically a Russian not a Jew. There was a disproportionately large number of Jews amongst the senior leaders of the Russian Social Democrats (less so amongst the Socialist Revolutionaries), a fact by the way that strongly refutes the view of widespread anti semitism amongst the Russian lower classes, but the Social Democrats were never a Jewish dominated party and as is well know the Jewish socialist party in tsarist Russia known as the Jewish Bund was refused admission into the Social Democrats when it insisted on maintaining its independent organisation and identity.

    As for it being a well known fact that the USSR had institutionalised anti semitism, that is a widely held opinion rather than a fact. Certainly it is an opinion that is difficult to reconcile with the first decades of the Soviet government. Three of Lenin's closest associates in the Bolshevik party and in the Soviet government, Zinoviev, the head of the Comintern and the party chief in Petrograd, Sverdlov, the first Soviet head of state and Kamenev, Sverdlov's successor, were Jewish. Lenin's first Foreign Minister and subsequent Defence Minister, Trotsky, was Jewish. So was Lenin's Finance Minister during the NEP period Sokolnikov.

    As for Stalin one of his closest associates Kaganovich was Jewish, the wife of his other close associate, Molotov, Polina Zhemchugina, was Jewish and a minister in the Soviet government in her own right, as was the second wife of his dreaded secret police chief, Yezhov. Of Stalin's other officials, his longest serving Foreign Minister, Litvinov, was Jewish as was one of his other secret police chiefs, Yagoda, and one of his wartime Marshals, Chernyakhovsky. As is well know Stalin also employed extensively important Jewish cultural figures to propagandise his policies, first and foremost the film director Sergei Eisenstein and the writer and publicist Ilya Ehrenburg.

    As for the Doctors' Plot, the motivations for it are obscure and it is far clear whether those who were arrested were arrested because some of them were Jews or (which is actually more likely) because all of them were doctors and there happened a disproportionate number of senior doctors at that time in the USSR who were Jews. If it was intended as the start of an anti semitic campaign (for which there is in fact no evidence in anything Stalin himself ever said) then it must be considered a complete failure because it achieved no resonance amongst the wider Soviet public and was immediately abandoned after Stalin's death when all the persons arrested were released and rehabilitated.

    There is no doubt that a shift did take place after the Six Day War in 1967 with Soviet hostility to Israel resulting in a number of deeply unpleasant anti semitic individuals on the fringes of the Soviet political and literary establishment coming out of the woodwork and tensions between the USSR and Israel and the effect of Jewish emigration causing tensions between Jews and the Soviet authorities to an extent that had simply not been the case before. However I personally would not describe even this period as one of "institutionalised anti semitism" as any comparison with the genuinely institutionalised anti semitism of pre Second World War central and eastern Europe shows.

  • @AP
    The best way to look for genetic links between IQ and intelligence is adoption studies (because in addition to nutrition, culture, poverty, etc. impact IQ). Are there differences between black kids taken from infancy and white kids taken from infancy and both raised in the same environment (keep in mind, even such studies may be flawed because they don't take into account prenatal care)? The results of such studies have been mixed and do not support the idea that there are large genetic differences between races in terms of IQ. Wikipedia summarizes this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Uniform_rearing_conditions

    Somewhat unrelated, but educational achievement correlates with IQ. PISA scores for African-Americans are higher than for Romanian, Albanians, Montenegrans and Bulgarians:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is-destiny-in-education-too-but-washington-doesnt-want-you-to-k

    Is something wrong with the Balkans?

    (btw, the author of that article mentioned you here, AK: http://isteve.blogspot.com/2012/04/pisa-scores-by-region-in-russia-and.html)

    Thank you, I’m trying my best to follow the VDARE blog.
    In return let me give you a link as well. Have you heard of Occidentalist? So Chuck has finished his extensive research and analysis of different score data he was able to find. And as much as he was hesitating between environmentalist and hereditarian approach to racial differences in intelligence his conclusion is “I can now with confidence say that I am convinced that the Black-White IQ gap in the US is probably more genetically conditioned than not.”
    http://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/2012/06/19/finished/

    “The results of such studies have been mixed and do not support the idea that there are large genetic differences between races in terms of IQ. ”

    Children’s IQ can be somewhat boosted with the help of early education and intervention programs, and improved social environment. The problem is that by the age when heritability factors and regression to the mean come into play their IQ lowers towards the mean IQ of their race. This is what critiques of Minnesota Adoption study didn’t account for.

  • “AFAIK there are no significant gender differences with overall IQ.”

    Oh, of course, gender differences in IQ are not that significant as racial. But, nevertheless, they’re still there.

  • And Anatoly,
    I just want to thank you for your blog. It was a nice surprise for me when I discovered that somebody’s actually trying to give an objective review about Russia. Usually that’s not the case 🙂

  • @Ni123
    "female’s IQ is lower than whites’"
    No "edit" here? How inconvenient. what I meant was "females' IQ is lower than males' " :)

    AFAIK there are no significant gender differences with overall IQ.

  • AP says:
    @Ni123
    @AK
    "Ashkenazi Jews"
    Another fact to consider is their matrimony traditions and religious restrictions towards marriages with outsiders. Only in 1847 (?) those restrictions were loosened. Until then 1st/2nd cousin marriages (hence inbreeding) were very common. And inbreeding lowers IQ. So I think it is safe to assume that first generations that followed the changes in marriage practices were affected.

    "least basic literacy has a vast impact as does nutrition"
    Yes, basic literacy is important, but there are numerous ways to measure intellectual capacity even in person who is completely illiterate. For example, Raven's Matrices or tests measuring reaction time. And the results of those tests show that intellect more likely has genetic nature.

    Now, about nutrition. Yes, severe malnutrition should be taken into account. But, again, multiple IQ tests show that blacks in the US have lower IQ than whites. The gap is still there, even though malnutrition is not. Which brings it back to genetic origin.

    "Nobody .... claims that IQ ....(completely) genetic”."
    In fact, they do
    http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx

    The best way to look for genetic links between IQ and intelligence is adoption studies (because in addition to nutrition, culture, poverty, etc. impact IQ). Are there differences between black kids taken from infancy and white kids taken from infancy and both raised in the same environment (keep in mind, even such studies may be flawed because they don’t take into account prenatal care)? The results of such studies have been mixed and do not support the idea that there are large genetic differences between races in terms of IQ. Wikipedia summarizes this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Uniform_rearing_conditions

    Somewhat unrelated, but educational achievement correlates with IQ. PISA scores for African-Americans are higher than for Romanian, Albanians, Montenegrans and Bulgarians:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is-destiny-in-education-too-but-washington-doesnt-want-you-to-k

    Is something wrong with the Balkans?

    (btw, the author of that article mentioned you here, AK: http://isteve.blogspot.com/2012/04/pisa-scores-by-region-in-russia-and.html)

    • Replies: @Ni123
    Thank you, I'm trying my best to follow the VDARE blog.
    In return let me give you a link as well. Have you heard of Occidentalist? So Chuck has finished his extensive research and analysis of different score data he was able to find. And as much as he was hesitating between environmentalist and hereditarian approach to racial differences in intelligence his conclusion is "I can now with confidence say that I am convinced that the Black-White IQ gap in the US is probably more genetically conditioned than not."
    http://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/2012/06/19/finished/

    "The results of such studies have been mixed and do not support the idea that there are large genetic differences between races in terms of IQ. "

    Children's IQ can be somewhat boosted with the help of early education and intervention programs, and improved social environment. The problem is that by the age when heritability factors and regression to the mean come into play their IQ lowers towards the mean IQ of their race. This is what critiques of Minnesota Adoption study didn't account for.

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Thanks, but I know; Sailer and I sometimes exchange emails.

    There's many exceptions to general rules in HBD/IQ, however I prefer to focus on them at my other blog as this one is about Russia after all.

    , @Ni123
    "Is something wrong with the Balkans?"

    (Anatoly, I apologize for yet another posting on IQ)
    Yeap, there probably is. Long history of inbreeding.
    http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2012/06/long-ibd-gives-clues-to-migrations.html

  • @Ni123
    "For example, if there are 10 jobs of a particular rank, and 100 qualified applicants who passed the exam, then why not ensure that the 10 who are ultimately picked are diverse (based on whatever criteria) rather than all from the same group?"
    You're a little too late with your great idea. This is exactly what is being done now. The employers are required to have an employee body that is diverse enough to satisfy racial and sex quotas. But you know what? The huge problem is that there are not enough minorities (including women) to fill out those above mentioned 10 positions as soon as the whatever job test they are taking has the same requirements for all applicants. Why? Because black's IQ is lower than whites', female's IQ is lower than whites' and Hispanics' IQ is lower than whites.

    But the solution has been found. In order for minorities to be hires they lowered the entrance tests scores requirements for them. And it's being done only employment wise, it's being done in colleges too. So now if you're a white male you will be required to score higher on job test than if you're a woman or a colored man.
    And if employer refuses to lower job tests scores requirements for applicants (of course, who wants to hire dummies or unprofessionals), minorities sue him. There are plenty of precedents.

    "the IQ tests are in written form, they heavily depend on (1) literacy, (2) fluency of the particular language in question, and (3) ability to focus and follow instructions."
    (1)Once again, there are tests that do not depend on literacy at all. And all of them show the same. Language proficiency aside Blacks and Hispanics have lower results than Whites, women have lower results than men, and Whites have lower results than Asians.
    (2) and (3) SAT tests high school students are taking very closely correlate with IQ tests. Does it bother you that high school graduate actually is supposed to be fluent in his native language and be able to focus and follow instructions? If you were an employer would you voluntarily hire an applicant who cannot speak English and is unable to follow instructions?

    “female’s IQ is lower than whites’”
    No “edit” here? How inconvenient. what I meant was “females’ IQ is lower than males’ ” 🙂

    • Replies: @AP
    AFAIK there are no significant gender differences with overall IQ.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    AP is correct; male and female IQ's are about the same. (Males do however have a broader distribution so there are significantly more male morons and male geniuses than their female counterparts; this makes sense in evolutionary terms as men are far more disposable and nature can more afford to do experiments on them).

    There is however a significant difference in the structure of male and female IQ. Males tend to be higher on visuo-spatial. This is correlated with being good at math hence the much higher prevalence of males in math-heavy science and computing work. Females are relatively better than men at verbal IQ. That is no doubt why in the literate arts they have posed some competition to males from Murasaki Shikibu to J.K. Rowling.

  • @AP
    (1) IQ tests exist that do not depend on literacy. Also, interpetation of results takes literacy into account (IQ tests have verbal and non-verbal/pattern recognition components)

    (2) IQ tests are normed in specific countries and only valid when administered to people from those countries. In the USA there are IQ tests norms for primarily English-speaking people and for primarily Spanish-speaking people

    (3) Ability to focus and follow instruction is a component of intelligence.

    “In the USA there are IQ tests norms for primarily …Spanish-speaking people”.
    I didn’t know that. Thank you for this info.

  • AP says:
    @yalensis
    "yalensis is quite obviously not an anti-Semite but a racial egalitarianist"
    Not even that. I don't believe that all people were "created" equal, but I do believe they should all be "treated" equal, in terms of civil rights, access to economic resources, and so on.
    At the same time (maybe a contradiction, I’m not sure), I do believe that in just about every society just about every job or position should be based on a meritocratist civil service exam. This does not contradict the occasional use of quotas to correct imbalances. For example, if there are 10 jobs of a particular rank, and 100 qualified applicants who passed the exam, then why not ensure that the 10 who are ultimately picked are diverse (based on whatever criteria) rather than all from the same group?
    Also, for the record, I do believe that Jews are, on average, more intelligent than other “races” (although Leon Lentz is obviously a striking exception to that rule, since he is ALWAYS wrong about everything). Hence, I quoted that bit about “dumb Jews” in WWI as a debating point to debunk the notion of IQ tests as valid indicators of intelligence. However, as I am reading and learning more, I am starting to come around a bit and maybe admit these tests have some validity. But I am going to need some more convincing. For example, since the IQ tests are in written form, they heavily depend on (1) literacy, (2) fluency of the particular language in question, and (3) ability to focus and follow instructions.

    (1) IQ tests exist that do not depend on literacy. Also, interpetation of results takes literacy into account (IQ tests have verbal and non-verbal/pattern recognition components)

    (2) IQ tests are normed in specific countries and only valid when administered to people from those countries. In the USA there are IQ tests norms for primarily English-speaking people and for primarily Spanish-speaking people

    (3) Ability to focus and follow instruction is a component of intelligence.

    • Replies: @Ni123
    "In the USA there are IQ tests norms for primarily ...Spanish-speaking people".
    I didn't know that. Thank you for this info.
  • @yalensis
    "yalensis is quite obviously not an anti-Semite but a racial egalitarianist"
    Not even that. I don't believe that all people were "created" equal, but I do believe they should all be "treated" equal, in terms of civil rights, access to economic resources, and so on.
    At the same time (maybe a contradiction, I’m not sure), I do believe that in just about every society just about every job or position should be based on a meritocratist civil service exam. This does not contradict the occasional use of quotas to correct imbalances. For example, if there are 10 jobs of a particular rank, and 100 qualified applicants who passed the exam, then why not ensure that the 10 who are ultimately picked are diverse (based on whatever criteria) rather than all from the same group?
    Also, for the record, I do believe that Jews are, on average, more intelligent than other “races” (although Leon Lentz is obviously a striking exception to that rule, since he is ALWAYS wrong about everything). Hence, I quoted that bit about “dumb Jews” in WWI as a debating point to debunk the notion of IQ tests as valid indicators of intelligence. However, as I am reading and learning more, I am starting to come around a bit and maybe admit these tests have some validity. But I am going to need some more convincing. For example, since the IQ tests are in written form, they heavily depend on (1) literacy, (2) fluency of the particular language in question, and (3) ability to focus and follow instructions.

    “For example, if there are 10 jobs of a particular rank, and 100 qualified applicants who passed the exam, then why not ensure that the 10 who are ultimately picked are diverse (based on whatever criteria) rather than all from the same group?”
    You’re a little too late with your great idea. This is exactly what is being done now. The employers are required to have an employee body that is diverse enough to satisfy racial and sex quotas. But you know what? The huge problem is that there are not enough minorities (including women) to fill out those above mentioned 10 positions as soon as the whatever job test they are taking has the same requirements for all applicants. Why? Because black’s IQ is lower than whites’, female’s IQ is lower than whites’ and Hispanics’ IQ is lower than whites.

    But the solution has been found. In order for minorities to be hires they lowered the entrance tests scores requirements for them. And it’s being done only employment wise, it’s being done in colleges too. So now if you’re a white male you will be required to score higher on job test than if you’re a woman or a colored man.
    And if employer refuses to lower job tests scores requirements for applicants (of course, who wants to hire dummies or unprofessionals), minorities sue him. There are plenty of precedents.

    “the IQ tests are in written form, they heavily depend on (1) literacy, (2) fluency of the particular language in question, and (3) ability to focus and follow instructions.”
    (1)Once again, there are tests that do not depend on literacy at all. And all of them show the same. Language proficiency aside Blacks and Hispanics have lower results than Whites, women have lower results than men, and Whites have lower results than Asians.
    (2) and (3) SAT tests high school students are taking very closely correlate with IQ tests. Does it bother you that high school graduate actually is supposed to be fluent in his native language and be able to focus and follow instructions? If you were an employer would you voluntarily hire an applicant who cannot speak English and is unable to follow instructions?

    • Replies: @Ni123
    "female’s IQ is lower than whites’"
    No "edit" here? How inconvenient. what I meant was "females' IQ is lower than males' " :)
  • AP says:
    @yalensis
    There are lots of websites out there that can help people prepare for an IQ test. For example:
    http://test-iq.co.uk/real-iq-test-instruction-manual/


    In completing an IQ test:
    - Read the rules - Every test can differ somewhat in its requirements – find out whether there is a time limit for completing the test, whether you can make notes, etc.

    - Read the question carefully - Pay attention to the way the question is formulated, especially to the negative statements contained in the instructions (e.g. iq test online » which of the objects is suitable/not suitable...)

    - Do not guess - Try to complete the tasks dutifully – do not guess the results without having read the question.


    (etc etc) – lots of other good tips.

    The website is not very realistic. Unlike aptitude tests such as SAT or GRE, IQ tests are administered by psychologists, not self-administered, so preparing or reading questions carefully does not apply: the psychologist provides the instructions. “Guessing” is allowed; often people may be unsure but intuitively know the right answer and test norms account for that. There is a “practice effect”, which is why tests are not supposed to be administered more than once in a year; in that case the results would be considered invalid (although several valid tests exist so one could be administered a different test).

  • @Leon Lentz
    Actually, the average Jewish IQ is not 1 std higher but 2.5 std higher than that of Gentiles. The anti Semites like Yalensis above, quote anecdotal data concocted possibly by other anti Semites. However, we do have hard objective facts, the total US and world population, the average Jewish IQ and Gentile IQ in US and Europe and the total number of Nobel Prize winners, as well as the value of 1 std=8pts. Using statistical integral Calculus, one can compute the average IQ of Nobel Prize winners (143), knowing that the American Jews have 33.3% of all Nobel prizes in US while constituting only 1.8% of the total American population. There were 185 Jewish Nobel Prize Winners among 850 total awardees and Yalensis may fantasize about the golden times when Jews were "stupid" and his IQ did not look quite as abysmal in comparison. However, hard facts are, apart from anti Semitic wishful thinking, is that it takes roughly 110 times more Gentiles than Jews to produce a Nobel Prize.

    The Nobel Prize is hardly an objective metric of intelligence. It is a metric of western bias towards the un-west. Starting with Mendeleev.

    • Replies: @Leon Lentz
    I would have to agree with that. It would make sense to assume that at least the Nobel Committee is not biased toward Jews and evaluate separately percentage of Nobel Prizes given to Russian Jews vs the Russians in general and do the same for the US.
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    "as well as the value of 1 std=8pts..." - The S.D. is almost always set to 15 in IQ tests.

    yalensis is quite obviously not an anti-Semite but a racial egalitarianist.

    “yalensis is quite obviously not an anti-Semite but a racial egalitarianist”
    Not even that. I don’t believe that all people were “created” equal, but I do believe they should all be “treated” equal, in terms of civil rights, access to economic resources, and so on.
    At the same time (maybe a contradiction, I’m not sure), I do believe that in just about every society just about every job or position should be based on a meritocratist civil service exam. This does not contradict the occasional use of quotas to correct imbalances. For example, if there are 10 jobs of a particular rank, and 100 qualified applicants who passed the exam, then why not ensure that the 10 who are ultimately picked are diverse (based on whatever criteria) rather than all from the same group?
    Also, for the record, I do believe that Jews are, on average, more intelligent than other “races” (although Leon Lentz is obviously a striking exception to that rule, since he is ALWAYS wrong about everything). Hence, I quoted that bit about “dumb Jews” in WWI as a debating point to debunk the notion of IQ tests as valid indicators of intelligence. However, as I am reading and learning more, I am starting to come around a bit and maybe admit these tests have some validity. But I am going to need some more convincing. For example, since the IQ tests are in written form, they heavily depend on (1) literacy, (2) fluency of the particular language in question, and (3) ability to focus and follow instructions.

    • Replies: @Ni123
    "For example, if there are 10 jobs of a particular rank, and 100 qualified applicants who passed the exam, then why not ensure that the 10 who are ultimately picked are diverse (based on whatever criteria) rather than all from the same group?"
    You're a little too late with your great idea. This is exactly what is being done now. The employers are required to have an employee body that is diverse enough to satisfy racial and sex quotas. But you know what? The huge problem is that there are not enough minorities (including women) to fill out those above mentioned 10 positions as soon as the whatever job test they are taking has the same requirements for all applicants. Why? Because black's IQ is lower than whites', female's IQ is lower than whites' and Hispanics' IQ is lower than whites.

    But the solution has been found. In order for minorities to be hires they lowered the entrance tests scores requirements for them. And it's being done only employment wise, it's being done in colleges too. So now if you're a white male you will be required to score higher on job test than if you're a woman or a colored man.
    And if employer refuses to lower job tests scores requirements for applicants (of course, who wants to hire dummies or unprofessionals), minorities sue him. There are plenty of precedents.

    "the IQ tests are in written form, they heavily depend on (1) literacy, (2) fluency of the particular language in question, and (3) ability to focus and follow instructions."
    (1)Once again, there are tests that do not depend on literacy at all. And all of them show the same. Language proficiency aside Blacks and Hispanics have lower results than Whites, women have lower results than men, and Whites have lower results than Asians.
    (2) and (3) SAT tests high school students are taking very closely correlate with IQ tests. Does it bother you that high school graduate actually is supposed to be fluent in his native language and be able to focus and follow instructions? If you were an employer would you voluntarily hire an applicant who cannot speak English and is unable to follow instructions?

    , @AP
    (1) IQ tests exist that do not depend on literacy. Also, interpetation of results takes literacy into account (IQ tests have verbal and non-verbal/pattern recognition components)

    (2) IQ tests are normed in specific countries and only valid when administered to people from those countries. In the USA there are IQ tests norms for primarily English-speaking people and for primarily Spanish-speaking people

    (3) Ability to focus and follow instruction is a component of intelligence.

    , @Leon Lentz
    Yalensis has denied a very well known fact that USSR had institutionalized, State sponsored, anti Semitism, (he possibly thought that "Physicians' case" was true and Stalin and Hitler were "social egalitarianists"). According to Yalensis, I am "always wrong about everything". If so, he probably would disagree with my statement that he (Yalensis) and a retarded Neanderthal have quite disparate IQs.
    I had a friend who was always wrong about stock market and I made some money placing trades opposite to what he suggested. Following this strategy, one can sweep up the whole stock market. I suggest Yalensis follow his own ideas and place trades opposite to what I suggest. He would simultaneously convince himself of his thesis and make money, which he can donate to his favorite Jew/Israel hating entity.
  • @Leon Lentz
    Actually, the average Jewish IQ is not 1 std higher but 2.5 std higher than that of Gentiles. The anti Semites like Yalensis above, quote anecdotal data concocted possibly by other anti Semites. However, we do have hard objective facts, the total US and world population, the average Jewish IQ and Gentile IQ in US and Europe and the total number of Nobel Prize winners, as well as the value of 1 std=8pts. Using statistical integral Calculus, one can compute the average IQ of Nobel Prize winners (143), knowing that the American Jews have 33.3% of all Nobel prizes in US while constituting only 1.8% of the total American population. There were 185 Jewish Nobel Prize Winners among 850 total awardees and Yalensis may fantasize about the golden times when Jews were "stupid" and his IQ did not look quite as abysmal in comparison. However, hard facts are, apart from anti Semitic wishful thinking, is that it takes roughly 110 times more Gentiles than Jews to produce a Nobel Prize.

    “as well as the value of 1 std=8pts…” – The S.D. is almost always set to 15 in IQ tests.

    yalensis is quite obviously not an anti-Semite but a racial egalitarianist.

    • Replies: @yalensis
    "yalensis is quite obviously not an anti-Semite but a racial egalitarianist"
    Not even that. I don't believe that all people were "created" equal, but I do believe they should all be "treated" equal, in terms of civil rights, access to economic resources, and so on.
    At the same time (maybe a contradiction, I’m not sure), I do believe that in just about every society just about every job or position should be based on a meritocratist civil service exam. This does not contradict the occasional use of quotas to correct imbalances. For example, if there are 10 jobs of a particular rank, and 100 qualified applicants who passed the exam, then why not ensure that the 10 who are ultimately picked are diverse (based on whatever criteria) rather than all from the same group?
    Also, for the record, I do believe that Jews are, on average, more intelligent than other “races” (although Leon Lentz is obviously a striking exception to that rule, since he is ALWAYS wrong about everything). Hence, I quoted that bit about “dumb Jews” in WWI as a debating point to debunk the notion of IQ tests as valid indicators of intelligence. However, as I am reading and learning more, I am starting to come around a bit and maybe admit these tests have some validity. But I am going to need some more convincing. For example, since the IQ tests are in written form, they heavily depend on (1) literacy, (2) fluency of the particular language in question, and (3) ability to focus and follow instructions.
    , @Mr. X
    I for one find genuine Jewish supremacists (as opposed to those who're merely comfortable admitting IQ may be why Jews punch so far above their demographic weight) significantly rarer than Mexican supremacists aka advocates of total amnesty for illegals who slip across our borders while keeping all those damn Asians out. Because that's what La Raza/MeCHA are.

    But then again, I don't live in a neighborhood with Jewish supremacists but Mexicans who blast everyone with umpah Ranchero ballads that consist of accordion/tuba music stolen from my German ancestors who came to the Americas and long since abandoned by their descendants. That's why when Anatoly gets criticized by trolls for calling Mexican women on average fat (or at least the ones in the U.S.) despite the statistics backing him up that Mexico is rapidly approaching the U.S. for the most fat people on earth, I can sympathize.

  • I am sorry for misprints in my previous post here, it is due to the improper display on this site. I would like to offer a brief discourse into the causation link between the anti Semitism in Russia on one hand and the fall of the Czarist Russia and the collapse of the USSR on the other. The pogroms and the Black Hundreds instigated by the Russian Orthodox Church and the Czar fomented revolutionary movement among the Jewish youth who took the ideas of Marx and transformed them into two basic political movements: Socialist Revolutionary Party and RSDRP, both ideologically dominated by the Jews.
    The WWI was obviously a catalyst but the Communist Revolution wouldn’t have happened, hadn’t the Czar antagonized and revolutionized the most politically active and somewhat wealthy part of the Jewish population in Russia. Moving 50 years forward to the Israeli victory in the Six Days War of 1967, when anti Semitism has greatly increased in the USSR, dropping the regular 50% Jewish enrollment in the Moscow State University to a meager 5% and then even less, when defending a dissertation, getting a good job, etc., has become very difficult, the Jewish refusnik and dissident movement has generated internal instability and inspired the West to economic and political sanctions. This, together with the resulting Jewish brain drain to the West, was a major factor of the USSR’s collapse. I would estimate the number of Jews in Russia closer to 220k, which is still very small, less than 0.2% and I would agree with Adomanis that Putin is certainly not anti Semitic, so it won’t be a factor in any ffuture problems of Russia. The WWII, was single handedly won by the USSR, the US and UK were a minor nuisance at best, sometimes to Russians, sometimes to Germans. The decisive factor in the second half of the war was the total air superiority USSR had over german Luftwaffe due to MIGs and LAs invented by Gurevich and Lavochkin, respectively, both Jewish.

  • @yalensis
    Re: intelligence of Jews in Tsarist times.
    Anatoly’s other blog got me interested in the history of IQ tests, so I read some sources, for example this one about Binet, a smart guy in his own right who invented the word “moron” to describe a certain class of people who continue to vex to this day. (One example: my boss). But I also saw this interesting piece , which claims Jews were not nearly the smarty-pants in WWI days that they are now:
    Russian-born Jews who became American soldiers in World War I also scored low on IQ tests. So low, in fact, that Carl Brigham, the creator of the Scholastic Aptitude Test, declared that the results "disprove the popular belief that the Jew is highly intelligent."
    So, what happened in the last 100 years? How did Russian Jews start off so dumb and get so smart? My conclusion: IQ scores cannot be (completely) genetic, because it is not possible for human DNA to evolve that quickly.
    There I just did a two-fer: joining content of 2 blogs in the same comment.

    Actually, the average Jewish IQ is not 1 std higher but 2.5 std higher than that of Gentiles. The anti Semites like Yalensis above, quote anecdotal data concocted possibly by other anti Semites. However, we do have hard objective facts, the total US and world population, the average Jewish IQ and Gentile IQ in US and Europe and the total number of Nobel Prize winners, as well as the value of 1 std=8pts. Using statistical integral Calculus, one can compute the average IQ of Nobel Prize winners (143), knowing that the American Jews have 33.3% of all Nobel prizes in US while constituting only 1.8% of the total American population. There were 185 Jewish Nobel Prize Winners among 850 total awardees and Yalensis may fantasize about the golden times when Jews were “stupid” and his IQ did not look quite as abysmal in comparison. However, hard facts are, apart from anti Semitic wishful thinking, is that it takes roughly 110 times more Gentiles than Jews to produce a Nobel Prize.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    "as well as the value of 1 std=8pts..." - The S.D. is almost always set to 15 in IQ tests.

    yalensis is quite obviously not an anti-Semite but a racial egalitarianist.

    , @kirill
    The Nobel Prize is hardly an objective metric of intelligence. It is a metric of western bias towards the un-west. Starting with Mendeleev.