Leaked Clips from The Joker [WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS] Up: Second Clip Leaked [SEE STAFF POST]

Oct 25, 2017
2,502
The Aurora shooting, which you obliquely referenced earlier in this thread, was not inspired by the Joker. Other than that example, which has been debunked multiple times in the last few pages, are there recent examples of mainstream movies getting people killed? I can't think of any. People tried to blame Columbine on everything from Matrix to Doom (the game) to KMFDM. I think it's a bit of a leap, however, to blame media for the actions of the unhinged.
You sound like this guy I know who claims that all racial violence is the result of people with mental problems. “Because normal people can keep their hate in check.” Would you also agree that every single cop between Selma and Montgomery, Alabama has undiagnosed mental health issues?
 

Brock Reiher

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,449
You sound like this guy I know who claims that all racial violence is the result of people with mental problems. “Because normal people can keep their hate in check.” Would you also agree that every single cop between Selma and Montgomery, Alabama has undiagnosed mental health issues?
People who blame violence on movies tend to be the same ones who blame it on mental health
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,224
You sound like this guy I know who claims that all racial violence is the result of people with mental problems. “Because normal people can keep their hate in check.” Would you also agree that every single cop between Selma and Montgomery, Alabama has undiagnosed mental health issues?
What exactly about my post are you refuting?
Do you think that the Columbine kids would have been fine if not for Matrix, Doom and KMFDM?
Do you think that James Holmes really was inspired by Joker even though those who researched him the most disagree?
Of course I recognize that racism is a widespread problem. I'm not sure why you think that this film will move the needle on that with thousands of overt platforms for it, including radio, TV news, the president, etc...
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,446
Sure, and look, I'm not saying ban the film. It may have been a bit irresponsible to make it depending on its ultimate messaging given current happenings, but I do think it's important for us to be aware of the potential for bad things to come out of it, how it plays into the zeitgeist, and for its messaging to be hijacked so it doesn't take us by surprise.
worrying about the film won't solve anything though. the film isn't the problem.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
8,079
The Aurora shooting, which you obliquely referenced earlier in this thread, was not inspired by the Joker. Other than that example, which has been debunked multiple times in the last few pages, are there recent examples of mainstream movies getting people killed? I can't think of any. People tried to blame Columbine on everything from Matrix to Doom (the game) to KMFDM. I think it's a bit of a leap, however, to blame media for the actions of the unhinged.
I apologize for being wrong. Aside from that explicit example that was incorrect, I do not think it is a stretch to say disaffected young men identified with the character and it was going to lead them anywhere it would be to the right, and then the alt-right. whose ideologies have gotten people killed. The prevalence of joker memes on image boards such as 4chan and the internet at large with the underlying violence-against-society messaging was not something being perpetrated by the left. It's important to understand how these things coalesce through culture and the internet and who they are speaking to and what message some people are getting from it.
worrying about the film won't solve anything though. the film isn't the problem.
I don't know that we need to "worry", that is different than being aware. It shouldn't like ruin anyone's day.
 

SG-17

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,757
If the rest of the film is as good as these clips it very much has the potential to be my favorite film in a long time.

I think I am going to see this in theaters now instead of waiting for rentals.
 

El Jefe

Banned
Aug 15, 2019
115
California
How dare someone imply a capitalist entity would appeal to a focused market to take their money?!
Dog every post you've made in this thread has been dumb. Please stop it. You're talking out your ass. I consider myself a leftist but this aint it.

Rile them up? No.
Take their money by giving them validation? Yes. That was probably the plan. Create controversy to get more asses in seats too, they wanted this debate to spark
That was their plan? So they made a movie specifically to validate Incels? That was literally the only goal? C'mon now you're being super dense.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,502
What exactly about my post are you refuting?
Do you think that the Columbine kids would have been fine if not for Matrix, Doom and KMFDM?
Do you think that James Holmes really was inspired by Joker even though those who researched him the most disagree?
Of course I recognize that racism is a widespread problem. I'm not sure why you think that this film will move the needle on that with thousands of overt platforms for it, including radio, TV news, the president, etc...
Well we generally agree that right wing talk radio, Fox News, and Trump are bad? Right? So why should this movie be exempt.
 

Tribal_Cult

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,115
This takes place in the 70s, right? Man, I would have loved it if the end scene would have been him looking down at a crying baby that he and his love-interest in the movie had with Ledger’s “You know how I got these scars?” speech audio playing and ending with Phoenix saying “Why so serious?”
Lmao thank God this is not fanfiction, maybe they'll make it decent.
 

Greecian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
220
The acting is phenomenal, but the dialogue is really troubling to me. Maybe with context of the whole movie, it would come across better.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,224
I apologize for being wrong. Aside from that explicit example that was incorrect, I do not think it is a stretch to say disaffected young men identified with the character and it was going to lead them anywhere it would be to the right, and then the alt-right. whose ideologies have gotten people killed. The prevalence of joker memes on image boards such as 4chan and the internet at large with the underlying violence-against-society messaging was not something being perpetrated by the left. It's important to understand how these things coalesce through culture and the internet and who they are speaking to and what message some people are getting from it.

I don't know that we need to "worry", that is different than being aware. It shouldn't like ruin anyone's day.
Yes, it's worth recognizing that media can lead people to ideas, for good or bad.
When we worry about people misinterpreting something, however, then what's the solution? There have always been movies that could be misinterpreted. Scarface, for example, is seen as an aspirational tale by many people even though it's clearly not intended to be.
What's the solution?
Why does this conversation come up for this movie and not for hundreds of others that could similarly be misinterpreted?
 

mattiewheels

Member
Oct 27, 2017
767
I can’t wait till this thing comes out and it doesn’t turn out to be the Manchurian Candidate-esque trigger that activates all the incels to riot and murder like you guys assume it will. This is one of the most regressive arguments I’ve ever seen from such a place of established progressiveness that it’s just depressing to see happen.
 

Chuck Noblet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,790
What's the point of making a movie about the Joker if everything that makes the Joker who he is isn't part of the character?

If you want to make a stupid psycho clown movie just make a stupid psycho clown movie, there was no reason to make it about the damn Joker. I don't understand why this particular movie is worth so much defense.
It's an elseworld movie. If this joker were in Matt Reeves Batman then you might have a case, but it's purposefully trying something different.

It's just a different take on a character. Just like, don't see it.

All the trailers have gotten pretty wildly shared and discussed, is it really surprising that people that want to see it would come into this thread to talk about it with you and others?
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,224
Well we generally agree that right wing talk radio, Fox News, and Trump are bad? Right? So why should this movie be exempt.
Because it's not remotely comparable. I sincerely doubt that the takeaway that the screenwriter, director or Phoenix are trying to instill is that this is a character to emulate or look up to. Judging something by the worst misinterpretation of it seems misguided at best. Goodfellas, Scarface, Taxi Driver, American Pscyho, American Gangster, Raging Bull, etc... could all be misinterpreted in ways that can cause harm. What's the solution? I sure don't think it's to isolate anyone that sees the movie (particularly when 90%+ of the audience will not interpret it they way you think they will).
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,502

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
8,079
Yes, it's worth recognizing that media can lead people to ideas, for good or bad.
When we worry about people misinterpreting something, however, then what's the solution? There have always been movies that could be misinterpreted. Scarface, for example, is seen as an aspirational tale by many people even though it's clearly not intended to be.
What's the solution?
Why does this conversation come up for this movie and not for hundreds of others that could similarly be misinterpreted?
I think it comes up for this movie because chan culture (and other places on the net) is a pretty specific thing, white men who think they are vicitmized and outcasted and who have a desire to burn everything down with no regard for society, and a pretty direct correlation can be drawn there with that type of individual as the leading figure.

Ad for what the solution is, I don't know, that's why I advocate just being aware.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,502
Because it's not remotely comparable. I sincerely doubt that the takeaway that the screenwriter, director or Phoenix are trying to instill is that this is a character to emulate or look up to. Judging something by the worst misinterpretation of it seems misguided at best. Goodfellas, Scarface, Taxi Driver, American Pscyho, American Gangster, Raging Bull, etc... could all be misinterpreted in ways that can cause harm. What's the solution? I sure don't think it's to isolate anyone that sees the movie (particularly when 90%+ of the audience will not interpret it they way you think they will).
People weren’t generally already committing mass murders over the themes of Taxi Driver before the movie came out.

As for people taking the wrong interpretation, have you never met someone who watched Fight Club?
 

Werd

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
279
Going to the wide shot of about what the home audience for the gun shot was pretty effective for the moment. Definitely uncomfortably realistic violence. Obviously good acting. I'll see it eventually.

The script seemed bad.
The story seems bad based on the trailers and marketing.
The movie is bad, the twist is dumb and why he’s on the talk show is dumb. The political point is dumb because of the bad twist.
Phoneix is good.

Good enough?
You seem to be misunderstanding everyone who is bringing up your first post...

No one is suggesting there weren't leaks before the screenings or really saying much about your opinion on the movie. They are telling you it makes no sense to come into a thread for a movie you've seen and say the leaked script makes it "seem bad", and only later mention you've actually seen the film and are judging it based off that. The final product is obviously far more relevant, so why would you start off talking about a leaked script? It reads like you gave an opinion based on the script that is widely available, then decided to lie about having seen it already to legitimize that opinion.

Rather that's what happened or not I don't really care. I am not invested in the debate around this movie or its quality.
 
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kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,224
People weren’t generally already committing mass murders over the themes of Taxi Driver before the movie came out.

As for people taking the wrong interpretation, have you never met someone who watched Fight Club?
Yes, I've met plenty of people who watched Fight Club. The overwhelming majority understood the film and didn't idolize Tyler Durden. The few who did think that Tyler Durden was "cool/badass" whatever didn't act on that belief or interpretation, so it didn't really matter that they misinterpreted.

What you're advocating leads to very one-dimensional media that makes it crystal clear what's good and bad. At that point you might as well go back to the old Westerns in which good/bad was easily denoted by the color of the character's hat.
 

OtherWorldly

Member
Dec 3, 2018
2,396
Also the folks who are saying incels will be inspired by a fictional comic book character in a movie are really blaming the media form as inspiration which can result in acts being done. This is the same basic holistic argument that republicans make when they say vulnerable individuals can be inspired by violent video games and inspired to commit mass shooting like they do in a video game

it is also the same argument of right wing Christian churches who say sex in movie scenes might inspire folks to be lewd in society
 

Chuck Noblet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,790

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,347
Wisconsin
Looks incredible judging by that clip. I haven't read the script but from what's in those clips I see this having more of the opposite reaction people are predicting. I don't think it will inspire anyone to violence but will inspire people to take up action against violence
 

MistahS

The Fallen
Sep 2, 2018
764
I don’t I can trust people on here saying they saw the film. I remember when Shazam was coming out some dude swore up and down that the movie was gonna be terrible and how he asked a bunch of people at his screening. A week later the movie turned out great. Lmao.
 

vodalus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
284
Los Angeles
This movie is basically a lit match. Movie looks to be carried completely by Phoenix to the point where they might as well have no dialogue and he could still keep it entertaining. Just watching him is a story.
 

OtherWorldly

Member
Dec 3, 2018
2,396
Because it justifies and glorifies the ideology of white, sexually unsuccessful men who already commit mass violence on the regular?
how Does a 50 year old universally beloved evil comic book character doing evil sadistic things justify and glorify white unsuccessful men Who commit violence. Should we ban fight club next from screenings ?

should we ban breaking bad like shows because they might inspire a drug lord and drug dealers to try and get rich off of vulnerable folks ?
 

NHarmonic.

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,851
Considering how fucked the US has become, i’m pretty sure this movie will be fuel for some terrorist fucks to organize shootings. This is exactly the kind of character they identify with, and the glorified violence here will probably be seen as heroic and totally misinterpreted. Just pay attention to that script.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,502
I couldn't help myself but watch this, the violence in this movie feels very real and intense. It's not glorified at all which I appreciate.

October can't come soon enough.
 

SeroTyler

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,715
This movie is gonna be dangerous, we should storm our local theaters and burn all the copies in the street to prevent any damage from being done to the susceptible populace.
Hard to see a difference from where I’m standing.


Whatever you say guy who defends a movie lionizing the violent outbursts of a guy who doesn’t get with the woman he wants to.
Now I've only seen trailers but I'm pretty sure he gave that girl the big smooch.