Gorlak was marked on N1, I was marked on N2
Gorlak was marked on N1, I was marked on N2
Kits do you have reads on anyone that isn’t based on their interactions with you?I guess you haven't been paying attention to any of your own or my responses to them either.
Vote: Dr. Monkey
This read feels really fake. A lot of "I think this could be scum, but maybe not". Kalor has been in the middle ground with all of his reads. He gives an example of what he finds scummy and instantly claims that he could be wrong. He did the same with Maol.I briefly mentioned this earlier today but the way they addressed Vincents vote on Meatwad was weird on day 1, where she said the vote wasn't worth it because it would become clear eventually if Meatwad was scum. Kopite brought it up as well and it's just a weird post. She has since addressed it and is currently voting for Meatwad but that doesn't really detract from that weird feeling. There's also some of the weirdness around her role claim which I'm still not sure about, or even really how it works. It's certainly elaborate for a potentially fake role claim but those are the ones that work best anyway, and scum did get some kind of fake role claim (though that might just be names).
Part of it also comes from the feeling that at least one of the higher activity posters is probably scum (though obviously not for certain) and she'd be the one I'd pick out of them (Monkey, Gorlak, Kits and yourself being the top 4 currently).
Also this is a random piece of information I noticed earlier that might be completely useless but she keeps bringing up the idea of the handprint thing being a potential arsonist. 12/25 arsonist mentions (prior to this post) being from her, the next highest being 4 mentions from a single person.
I'd need to reread the thread to give anything concrete. That might be something I'm able to get around to before EoD, it might not.Kits do you have reads on anyone that isn’t based on their interactions with you?
I’ll come up with a full read list before EOD, I suggest everyone else do so as well
I legitimately thought it'd lead to more activity lmao rip me i guess
Pushback immediately to the idea of Monkey and them being aligned in some way.I don't buy the "was a joke read" thing. I think that he tried really hard to set a narrative there, linking Monkey and mine aligment.
Similar Day 1 distancing on Monkeys end.And my hot take for the day is that Fran’s relative low key presence feels bad but not bad enough to vote d1.
So belief of role, easy stuff. No real questions about the way Monkey described their check, with lots of "something something balance, something something bastard but yeah red check".
Monkey comes back with their specifications to their claim, and the basic dashing of the red check. Fran's reaction:There is one thing and I honestly don't know what to make of it, like if it's flavor or a hint at bastardy and Natiko gave me nothing when I asked. I am Mama and my information (results) comes from my connection with the other side. As in dead players. That is specifically indicated.
Simple reaction. Fran would then ask one question about the potential role:That doesn't seem like an investivative role. It's more like a medium. And in that case you are not getting good info.
Fran asks a similar question later, I'll round back to that.Help me understand this: Did you get a "maol is not town" answer or did you asked "Is Maol town?" and the answer is just "No".
I'm leaning the doggo. The way that he reacted to Monkey claim seemed like he was spinning the claim to look for excuses to me.
At this point we already know about the 'medium' claim, something not known at the time of my early posts, but Fran still tries to paint me with the Scum brush as I realistically brought up things like 'misdirections', when at the time everyone assumed Monkey's role was as some sort of Investigator. Fran at the time was the first to frame Monkey's role as a medium, so what would be misdirected? Fuck all would, if we are to trust what Monkey said.This were the first reactions from the doggo when Monkey claimed and to me it seems that he is trying to create excuses for Maol's red check. His first reaction was trying to discret Monkey and trying to create a narrative that an ability messed up with that claim.
'The most obvious one' I'm guessing is that Maol is Scum, and that my bringing up misdirections was alluding to something. If Monkey really is a 'medium', then again this is bunk.This post is after Monkey clarified about her role and it seemed like she was a medium instead of some sort of cop. At this point her red check had lost a lot of force as it seems that it wasn't a red check at all. But the first reaction from Fat4all, when everyone still thought that Monkey had a red check on Maol, is him trying to find excuses that could explain the red check besides the most obvious one.
It's because at the time I didn't know anything about Monkey's claim and found how they introduced it odd. Turns out I was right when the claim changed into, as I say in quotes again, a 'medium'. But hey, Fat4all was questioning that claim, what a Scum thing to do. *wink-wink*Except that he never countered the red check. He just says things like: "I kinda feel weird about Monkey", "Considering that we had a motion detector there are roles that could mess results", "maybe there is some misdirection", etc. He is not countering Monkey or defending you. He is trying to create doubts around the red check without openly countering it.
I'm looking and it doesn't seem like Monkey answers this question (or the last question). Maybe I'm missing the answer, but I dunno, maybe it just got lost in all the other Monkey quotes at the time. Fran doesn't ask about this again I don't think, so *shrug*.Why did you asked if Maol was town instead of asking if he was scum? The second question seems like a better question.
When you are reviewing a game flavour doesn't matter. Even more, reviewers usually aren't told the flavour of the game (I never was at least).
This is such a small thing and it probably doesn't matter for the game at all so ignore me I guess but also what??? You mean the flavor in role PMs? Because game theme is usually pretty obvious when reviewing if not blatantly so.
I'm saying that no reviewer would allow an unfair role even if it matches with the flavour of the game. Flavour is just flavour and it shouldn't impact balance.
I have review several games without having a single clue about the flavour of the game, even one of yours.
This is the most interaction Fran and Monkey have on Day 2 concerning (loosely) Monkey's claim/role, and it's not really anything at all.s someone dedicated to designing for flavor, can confirm this, have had this argument 101095209343 times, including with Fran himself XD
I legitimately thought it'd lead to more activity lmao rip me i guess
What do you think about the way Monkey's been discussing my role? It's felt pretty filler on my end and seems to align with your read on her above.I'm gonna touch on the 'lie detector' + EoD 2 + Day 3 stuff a bit later.
There's a lot of stuff in here, but nothing reads like a smoking gun to me. I'll wait Monkey and Fran to go over it, but I did not get the feeling their interactions were forced.
But I'm not sure I follow you on bolded? If you know you're town, why are you arguing this?I imagine if we do end my lynching Monkey today and they flip Town that I'll be gone the next day, and hey I get that jazz. At the very least then when you flip me and I'm Town it'd probably be a safe bet Fran is Town as well.
But if we do flip a Scum Monkey, then I'm gonna start looking even more into Fran.
Because I don't see how Scum Fran attempts to deflect my questioning of Monkey's claim if Monkey is Town as well, but if both are Scum it makes more sense to me.
Ah, understood. Didn't get that you were considering a Monkey Town flip for that.Because I don't see how Scum Fran attempts to deflect my questioning of Monkey's claim if Monkey is Town as well, but if both are Scum it makes more sense to me.
Town Monkey and Scum Fran i suppose is a possibility, but the light-handedness of Fran's reactions to Monkey give me pause to that.
oh, sorry about that, sometimes i hop around in my own thoughtsAh, understood. Didn't get that you were considering a Monkey Town flip for that.
Wouldn’t mind seeing flips from any of the 4 ppl I listed earlier.
You mean this post, right? Care to put a vote down? Those are literally all the wagons going on today so saying your fine with either of them doesn't really mean anything at this point.Not liking Fran, meat, or monkey after the read.
Fran sticks out yo me as someone who stokes the flames. Breaking down into discussing game balance with the mao vote seemed scummy too.
Meatwad is just there. seems to be on the edge for a lot of ppl but no real action. Day 1 made me feel like he was saved iirc.
Monkey I don’t like how the mao stuff went down and her non answers to things. I don’t like how she presented her role either with a red check.
Kalor seems scummy today based on his non answers to me and reasoning for voting me.
Nah, it was my reading comprehension that was off.oh, sorry about that, sometimes i hop around in my own thoughts
Yeah, I need to update the post. My badwas the day extended a whole 24 hours?
i was trying to find a clock but couldn't find one
I'll try to get back to you on this as well.What do you think about the way Monkey's been discussing my role? It's felt pretty filler on my end and seems to align with your read on her above.
*truffleshuffle*
I said I would get another vote down before the initial day end time so...
Vote: Meatwad
One scum read to another for now.
Although right now looking at the player list, I'm also skeptical of Fran and Monkey. Yes, I'm sure someone will quote me and want me to expand on those two people but it's late here and I'm lazy. The quietness of this game isn't really helping because there's some more people I want to hear from.
Drops a vote on me day 1I'm not a fan of voting Turmoil at the moment because that train looks strong, and I'd like there to be some competition to drive discussion. Sooo.
VOTE: Meatwad
Turmoil has a vote here also, so should be a fun park to try and get a fire going.
The train that has three people on it now, one of whom is the person you're now voting?
Did you had a previous read on Meatwad and turmoil? There are a lot of disclaimers on both posts and it looks like you're not putting your foot down in either read.
I don't think Meatwad is the right lynch here. Feels like scared town. People were ignoring him until I mentioned him being a low hanging fruit. Fran got the ball rolling in #320/21, which is giving me pause about him (fran) at least something to note later. Who has played with Meatwad before? Fantomas you're always a sucker for meta.
Vincent though, let's see how things develop.
Receives pushback on the voteI wouldn't vote Meatwad. If Meatie is scum it'll come out; with this group I don't think he could hide for too long. Too many sharp eyes here.
Admits he had no read on me at all and just wanted to anywhere but Turmoil. Then asks everybody how they're voting. Looking for a viable wagon to jump onHonestly, when I voted, I didn't realize Turmoil was down to 3. But still, when they were at 4, they were already at 50% majority for the day. I just wanted a vote somewhere not Turmoil.
Meatwad? 0 read. Turmoil? Not much more, but something in me gut. The Turmoil post that made my ears go up a bit was the post about "Sooo....where is everyone else voting today?" (Paraphrasing). Gave me the vibe of scum playing the town role of trying to be helpful, get discussion going, etc.
Unvotes because of pushbackWelp, enough folks came out and said this isn't a good spot for a vote, so let me rip this right outta here . . .
UNVOTE
Spoiler so folks aren't subjugated to an endlessly repeating GIF.
Then jumps on the Turmoil wagonI will when I'm good and ready!
Taking a statement and phrasing it like a question ("trying to no implicate herself if VA is luncheon and flips town?") is stirring the pot without taking a stance on the very question posed. Of course, I know what the stance is, but it's the nature of how that is phrased that is stirring. Not always a scum tell, but it's something for me.
OK. Now I'm good and ready.
VOTE: Turmoil7
This post is so weird that it cements things for me - I'm happy to vote for Meatwad here today. I think a small part of me would still prefer Kalor, but I think Kalor's noncommittal vote is a bus in an effort to save himself. Meatwad is almost a foregone conclusion; if he doesn't go today, he'll go tomorrow, I think, so might as well bus while you can.After going through everything my top two scum leans are EzekelRAGE and Fandorin. Rage's play has been better since he took over granted but Vincent had been had been all over the place and seemed to be more opportunistic rather than looking to solve the game.
Fandorin, There has been something off about him this entire time and now I know what it is. If you look back at Fandorin's posts he does a decent job of making it look like he's trying to solve the game but from day 1 he begins tunneling me and doesn't let up. In fact he never comes up with any other serious scum reads. He has a big reads post in the middle of the thread where I am the only one who is scum to him, and the only times he votes he votes for me.
I don't know why he decided to fixate on me so much, but a townie genuinely trying to solve the game wouldn't just zero in on a single player to this degree and not have at least one or two other equally viable suspects.
My guess is Fandorin is the Neutral that Kits is looking for and his win condition is to get me lynched. Only thing that explains his tunneling imo.
Shit, I said it myself, Fran NOT being all over me this game has given me pause, too. But he's been more chill generally than usual - than he ever is as either scum OR town.Town Monkey and Scum Fran i suppose is a possibility, but the light-handedness of Fran's reactions to Monkey give me pause to that.
I'm trying to figure out how you say Fran discussed my role very sparingly when there are people in this game who barely addressed it at all. For instance, here's all that Kalor had to say about my role that I could find:This is the most interaction Fran and Monkey have on Day 2 concerning (loosely) Monkey's claim/role, and it's not really anything at all.
So at this point Day 2 kinda winds down. Monkey and Fran talk about Kits role, Monkey and Fran talk about the lie detector test, etc.
It's odd how Day 2 goes along, Fran discusses the Dr. Monkey claim veeeeery sparingly (unless as a subsection to push me as Scum). And while, sure, I've been getting aggressive on the Monkey Business® to a degree, it's something I just can't quite shake. Fran shook it almost immediately it seems, which hey, I guess not everyone has to question Monkey ya know. But me questioning Monkeys claim did seem to set off a bit of defense mechanism in Frans playstyle. If they were only lightly concerned with Monkey, their reaction to me questioning it does seems odd.
I imagine if we do end my lynching Monkey today and they flip Town that I'll be gone the next day, and hey I get that jazz. At the very least then when you flip me and I'm Town it'd probably be a safe bet Fran is Town as well.
But if we do flip a Scum Monkey, then I'm gonna start looking even more into Fran.
Not sure what to make of that red check
. I don't see scum Monkey lying about it but the hatred stuff throws it up in the air where I'm willing to believe a fake red check due to role weirdness. Even if it'd be awfully convenient that both happened on the same night.
Kalor believes it. That's really all. Look at the difference. Fran is pushing and trying to figure stuff out. While I can't say what his motivation is for sure, but he certainly looks more invested in trying to fit this role and what I'm doing with it into the game as we can see it than Kalor, who just says "yep, okay, sure." He did spend a little more effort justifying a vote on Maol outside of my results, but still lackluster effort. But there he was, happy to vote for Maol.Now that I've had more time to think about Maol the less sure I feel about that vote. Partly because it's an easy excuse for scum to vote for someone and not stick out too much (says one of the only 2 people actively voting for them right now). But then there's the conflicting side where some of Maols actions prior to revealing don't really line up with what their role, and the claim itself and the handling of it afterwards has just been messy. Although this has sort of been a game of messy role claims so far.
Other brief misc thoughts that I should get out there since I've been lacking in that regard.
- I think Kits, Vincent and Gorlak are probably town. Kits is probably the one I'm least sure out of the batch.
- I continue to think Monkeys role is believable, at least with the information that we have currently.
- Wary of Malus, meatwad and Fantomas. The latter being one I don't have much evidence for besides a gut feeling.
I'm really not seeing it. It seems more like Fran is brushing it off, I'm not sure how many times I've seen them say "yeah well, Monkey is a medium it seems so the red check is whatever". Figure what out? When Fran asked you questions you never got back to them (from what I saw), and there was never really a moment I felt like they were trying to understand your role outside of that. If anything it seemed like they were already content with the conclusion they had and that was that.
But you're totally fine with how someone like Kalor approached it? What about how Kalor addressed his role being changed?I'm really not seeing it. It seems more like Fran is brushing it off, I'm not sure how many times I've seen them say "yeah well, Monkey is a medium it seems so the red check is whatever". Figure what out? When Fran asked you questions you never got back to them (from what I saw), and there was never really a moment I felt like they were trying to understand your role outside of that. If anything it seemed like they were already content with the conclusion they had and that was that.
Did you even read what you screen capped? It’s literally Fran constantly bringing up the “medium = bad check” line over and over, and then the interaction you both have over kits role. None of those posts are Fran trying to figure out your role, this is Fran with their already set notions on your role. My post was going over the Day 2 interaction from the start of the day to past the second time you claimed mid-day, and it reads as surface level at best.I would say Gorlak questioned me most, but Fran would be in the second tier of folks who asked questions. You're cherrypicking.
brushing it off doesn’t make it any less a thing
I mean, that’s how Fran operates. It’s how he talks. But he was definitely engaged, much more so than many, and actively participating in efforts to solve. There are reasons not to fully trust Fran in this game, but his engagement with this topic seems like a weird fixation. There are people actively avoiding conversation, posting absolute fluff, and not engaging and you’re focused on this. I do NOT get it.Did you even read what you screen capped? It’s literally Fran constantly bringing up the “medium = bad check” line over and over, and then the interaction you both have over kits role. None of those posts are Fran trying to figure out your role, this is Fran with their already set notions on your role. My post was going over the Day 2 interaction from the start of the day to past the second time you claimed mid-day, and it reads as surface level at best.
I did not cherry pick a thing. Just because Fran mentioned you in some posts doesn’t mean those posts are Fran ‘figuring things out’ about you.
that's what you call good ole sceptic Fran?
which ones are those monkey?
What even is this monkey? You went in depth on all of your suspects in the pool, but not on meatwad. Just a weak vote with no justification? Hmrpfhagl. WHAT ARE YOU DOING?Maybe if I switch, I don't know. We're almost to original day end time and we still have three people under ten posts and two prime candidates not voting or engaging.
vote: Meatwad
Are you for real? You want to talk about breadcrumbs and role fish a bit? You're not satisfied with Doggo saying it could change? What do you want to here? His conditions? What he will be? If you have to night kill him soon?I haven't even noticed any particular breadcrumbs, so I'd guess there's some shit going on.
Says the one not revealing everything all game.But there are a lot of details and behaviors that are just going... undiscussed.
That's quite an interesting piece of information in two ways. Firstly the fact you mentioned. And secondly the fact that you mentioned it. Why did you look up how often arsonist was mentioned?Also this is a random piece of information I noticed earlier that might be completely useless but she keeps bringing up the idea of the handprint thing being a potential arsonist. 12/25 arsonist mentions (prior to this post) being from her, the next highest being 4 mentions from a single person.
This is sommit I kinda side-eyed from Meatwad. Sure there was plenty of justifiable reasons for any one person to vote Maol, but that doesn’t make it any more or less likely that Scum votes for them.I think scum would want to avoid the Mao vote for that reason. Pre-knowledge of his alignment would make it easy to place votes elsewhere to look innocent, and I think with the suspicion surrounding Mol scum could be confident that town would do the work for them. Without the benefit of knowing Mao's alignment, there were plenty of good reasons to vote for him. And now we also have the benefit of knowing that the info Monkey receives isn't entirely reliable.
hmm, I’m not sure I would characterize this so much as ‘opportunistic’, VAs vote on Turmoil was only the third vote at the time, and for Day 1 play it doesn’t seem that odd for people to latch onto other smaller trains for whatever justifications.Drops a vote on me day 1
Receives pushback on the vote
Admits he had no read on me at all and just wanted to anywhere but Turmoil. Then asks everybody how they're voting. Looking for a viable wagon to jump on
Unvotes because of pushback
Then jumps on the Turmoil wagon
Not having any real reads of his own and trying to follow the crowd is very opportunistic