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Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
- Thread starter Natiko
- Start date
Kits do you have reads on anyone that isn’t based on their interactions with you?
I’ll come up with a full read list before EOD, I suggest everyone else do so as well
This read feels really fake. A lot of "I think this could be scum, but maybe not". Kalor has been in the middle ground with all of his reads. He gives an example of what he finds scummy and instantly claims that he could be wrong. He did the same with Maol.
It reads like he is trying to throw shade at players but giving excuses for when they flip town.
I'd need to reread the thread to give anything concrete. That might be something I'm able to get around to before EoD, it might not.
I legitimately thought it'd lead to more activity lmao rip me i guessDid you guys troll with the extension
*truffleshuffle*
If Monkey flips Scum (i.e. when Monkey flips Scum), then my next bet for Scum would likely be Fran (if I were a bettin' dog). Fran and Monkey's interactions have been sparse, and their interactions involving Monkey's claim itself even moreso.
While I'm gonna mostly going over Day 2 interctions, there's some mild Day 1 things I noted:
Day 2 starts with all that Monkey Business®. You know it already, I've already gone on for ages about what I think it was (a poorly conceived power play).
Let's look at Fran's general reactions to that play as the day prognoses:
Not an odd reaction really, after all the 'red check' lines up with Fran's read already.
After this point, Fran shift their post energy into reiterating arguments about the Day 1 vote with Maol. This doesn't really lead anywhere, but does give that lovely quote above about questioning claims and the like.
Fran shift back to the Monkey Business®, but not to ask more questions of Monkey, but instead starts to frame me as a Scum trying to get Monkey lynched:
Fran gets to ask Monkey a similar question they asked before (similar to a question I asked before as well):
Now who likes filler conversation!
So at this point Day 2 kinda winds down. Monkey and Fran talk about Kits role, Monkey and Fran talk about the lie detector test, etc.
It's odd how Day 2 goes along, Fran discusses the Dr. Monkey claim veeeeery sparingly (unless as a subsection to push me as Scum). And while, sure, I've been getting aggressive on the Monkey Business® to a degree, it's something I just can't quite shake. Fran shook it almost immediately it seems, which hey, I guess not everyone has to question Monkey ya know. But me questioning Monkeys claim did seem to set off a bit of defense mechanism in Frans playstyle. If they were only lightly concerned with Monkey, their reaction to me questioning it does seems odd.
I imagine if we do end my lynching Monkey today and they flip Town that I'll be gone the next day, and hey I get that jazz. At the very least then when you flip me and I'm Town it'd probably be a safe bet Fran is Town as well.
But if we do flip a Scum Monkey, then I'm gonna start looking even more into Fran.
While I'm gonna mostly going over Day 2 interctions, there's some mild Day 1 things I noted:
Pushback immediately to the idea of Monkey and them being aligned in some way.
Similar Day 1 distancing on Monkeys end.
Day 2 starts with all that Monkey Business®. You know it already, I've already gone on for ages about what I think it was (a poorly conceived power play).
Let's look at Fran's general reactions to that play as the day prognoses:
So belief of role, easy stuff. No real questions about the way Monkey described their check, with lots of "something something balance, something something bastard but yeah red check".
Not an odd reaction really, after all the 'red check' lines up with Fran's read already.
Monkey comes back with their specifications to their claim, and the basic dashing of the red check. Fran's reaction:
Simple reaction. Fran would then ask one question about the potential role:
Fran asks a similar question later, I'll round back to that.
After this point, Fran shift their post energy into reiterating arguments about the Day 1 vote with Maol. This doesn't really lead anywhere, but does give that lovely quote above about questioning claims and the like.
Fran shift back to the Monkey Business®, but not to ask more questions of Monkey, but instead starts to frame me as a Scum trying to get Monkey lynched:
At this point we already know about the 'medium' claim, something not known at the time of my early posts, but Fran still tries to paint me with the Scum brush as I realistically brought up things like 'misdirections', when at the time everyone assumed Monkey's role was as some sort of Investigator. Fran at the time was the first to frame Monkey's role as a medium, so what would be misdirected? Fuck all would, if we are to trust what Monkey said.
'The most obvious one' I'm guessing is that Maol is Scum, and that my bringing up misdirections was alluding to something. If Monkey really is a 'medium', then again this is bunk.
It's because at the time I didn't know anything about Monkey's claim and found how they introduced it odd. Turns out I was right when the claim changed into, as I say in quotes again, a 'medium'. But hey, Fat4all was questioning that claim, what a Scum thing to do. *wink-wink*
Fran gets to ask Monkey a similar question they asked before (similar to a question I asked before as well):
I'm looking and it doesn't seem like Monkey answers this question (or the last question). Maybe I'm missing the answer, but I dunno, maybe it just got lost in all the other Monkey quotes at the time. Fran doesn't ask about this again I don't think, so *shrug*.
Now who likes filler conversation!
This is the most interaction Fran and Monkey have on Day 2 concerning (loosely) Monkey's claim/role, and it's not really anything at all.
So at this point Day 2 kinda winds down. Monkey and Fran talk about Kits role, Monkey and Fran talk about the lie detector test, etc.
It's odd how Day 2 goes along, Fran discusses the Dr. Monkey claim veeeeery sparingly (unless as a subsection to push me as Scum). And while, sure, I've been getting aggressive on the Monkey Business® to a degree, it's something I just can't quite shake. Fran shook it almost immediately it seems, which hey, I guess not everyone has to question Monkey ya know. But me questioning Monkeys claim did seem to set off a bit of defense mechanism in Frans playstyle. If they were only lightly concerned with Monkey, their reaction to me questioning it does seems odd.
I imagine if we do end my lynching Monkey today and they flip Town that I'll be gone the next day, and hey I get that jazz. At the very least then when you flip me and I'm Town it'd probably be a safe bet Fran is Town as well.
But if we do flip a Scum Monkey, then I'm gonna start looking even more into Fran.
What do you think about the way Monkey's been discussing my role? It's felt pretty filler on my end and seems to align with your read on her above.
There's a lot of stuff in here, but nothing reads like a smoking gun to me. I'll wait Monkey and Fran to go over it, but I did not get the feeling their interactions were forced.
That said, Fran's read on you goes back to my previous point on how he is looking at the Monkey's red check backwards and actually town reading people who were wrong about the situation. Its also pretty clear you don't fit into the "low key pushing for Maol's lynch" idea that I could probably see scum doing after Monkey's red check.
But I'm not sure I follow you on bolded? If you know you're town, why are you arguing this?
Because I don't see how Scum Fran attempts to deflect my questioning of Monkey's claim if Monkey is Town as well, but if both are Scum it makes more sense to me.
Town Monkey and Scum Fran i suppose is a possibility, but the light-handedness of Fran's reactions to Monkey give me pause to that.
Ah, understood. Didn't get that you were considering a Monkey Town flip for that.
oh, sorry about that, sometimes i hop around in my own thoughts
You mean this post, right? Care to put a vote down? Those are literally all the wagons going on today so saying your fine with either of them doesn't really mean anything at this point.
Nah, it was my reading comprehension that was off.
Yes, it was extended a whole day. sigh. I'm podcasting tonight so it'll be a bit before I will be back.
OP
OP
I'll try to get back to you on this as well.
If I forget before the end of the day please poke me.
After going through everything my top two scum leans are EzekelRAGE and Fandorin. Rage's play has been better since he took over granted but Vincent had been had been all over the place and seemed to be more opportunistic rather than looking to solve the game.
Fandorin, There has been something off about him this entire time and now I know what it is. If you look back at Fandorin's posts he does a decent job of making it look like he's trying to solve the game but from day 1 he begins tunneling me and doesn't let up. In fact he never comes up with any other serious scum reads. He has a big reads post in the middle of the thread where I am the only one who is scum to him, and the only times he votes he votes for me.
I don't know why he decided to fixate on me so much, but a townie genuinely trying to solve the game wouldn't just zero in on a single player to this degree and not have at least one or two other equally viable suspects.
My guess is Fandorin is the Neutral that Kits is looking for and his win condition is to get me lynched. Only thing that explains his tunneling imo.
Drops a vote on me day 1
Receives pushback on the vote
Admits he had no read on me at all and just wanted to anywhere but Turmoil. Then asks everybody how they're voting. Looking for a viable wagon to jump on
Unvotes because of pushbackWelp, enough folks came out and said this isn't a good spot for a vote, so let me rip this right outta here . . .
UNVOTE
Spoiler so folks aren't subjugated to an endlessly repeating GIF.
Then jumps on the Turmoil wagon
Not having any real reads of his own and trying to follow the crowd is very opportunistic
This post is so weird that it cements things for me - I'm happy to vote for Meatwad here today. I think a small part of me would still prefer Kalor, but I think Kalor's noncommittal vote is a bus in an effort to save himself. Meatwad is almost a foregone conclusion; if he doesn't go today, he'll go tomorrow, I think, so might as well bus while you can.
But this reach toward a neutral Fandorin in a game where Fandorin has had ample reason to focus outside main trains really comes screaming out of nowhere. Fandorin hasn't fixated on Meatwad; he's actually been very reasonable all game and if that's where his votes landed, there's enough backing it up in his content that the votes are, I think, more a case of game state than a true tunnel.
Shit, I said it myself, Fran NOT being all over me this game has given me pause, too. But he's been more chill generally than usual - than he ever is as either scum OR town.
Either way, I do not think Fran is the solution today.
I'm trying to figure out how you say Fran discussed my role very sparingly when there are people in this game who barely addressed it at all. For instance, here's all that Kalor had to say about my role that I could find:
Kalor believes it. That's really all. Look at the difference. Fran is pushing and trying to figure stuff out. While I can't say what his motivation is for sure, but he certainly looks more invested in trying to fit this role and what I'm doing with it into the game as we can see it than Kalor, who just says "yep, okay, sure." He did spend a little more effort justifying a vote on Maol outside of my results, but still lackluster effort. But there he was, happy to vote for Maol.
The posts you quote from Fran, though, and the rest of Fran's d2 posts, show progression. He started out "yep, that's a red check" and as we spent time hammering out the role, his needle moved. He considered things. Compare again to Kalor, who keeps posting the same wishy washy middle ground "reads" that don't say anything at all.
If we are at risk of bring in LYLO tomorrow at all, if there's even a chance, Fran's not a good target today. While there's a scum chance there, there's a far better chance in Meatwad and Kalor.
And if you want to call that me "defending" Fran, so be it. Have a blast. But I'm not interested in seeing this game end without catching scum. I highly doubt Fran's it. I doubt Fandorin's it. I'm pretty certain Gorlak isn't it. kits is being ~whatever~ and not really engaging with the thread, but I think she'd try to play a little more tightly if she was scum here.
I'm really not seeing it. It seems more like Fran is brushing it off, I'm not sure how many times I've seen them say "yeah well, Monkey is a medium it seems so the red check is whatever". Figure what out? When Fran asked you questions you never got back to them (from what I saw), and there was never really a moment I felt like they were trying to understand your role outside of that. If anything it seemed like they were already content with the conclusion they had and that was that.
But you're totally fine with how someone like Kalor approached it? What about how Kalor addressed his role being changed?
I ask because I did answer a ton of questions about my role. It dominated huge parts of the thread. Fran himself posted about my role like 14-15 times; you cherrypicked a few posts. I think you're tunneling a bit here - you have decided I'm most likely scum so now you're trying to fit things around that worldview rather than actually looking at what's what. Considering Fran's been one of the few to question you, there might be a touch of OMGUS in there too. It doesn't seem malicious - you're going through stuff so I don't particularly read it as scummy here - but you're missing some things.
I would say Gorlak questioned me most, but Fran would be in the second tier of folks who asked questions. You're cherrypicking.
Here are the questions I have before I go to bed:
Kitsunelaine - Can we please get a new readlist or read order from you? I don't care if there's details, just even a would vote/would not.
I'd kinda like to see Kopite's breakdown, too, and Fran, and Fandorin. malus has sort of dropped off the radar. Throw him in there.
I have another interview in the morning so I may not be back until the afternoon.
Kitsunelaine - Can we please get a new readlist or read order from you? I don't care if there's details, just even a would vote/would not.
I'd kinda like to see Kopite's breakdown, too, and Fran, and Fandorin. malus has sort of dropped off the radar. Throw him in there.
I have another interview in the morning so I may not be back until the afternoon.
Did you even read what you screen capped? It’s literally Fran constantly bringing up the “medium = bad check” line over and over, and then the interaction you both have over kits role. None of those posts are Fran trying to figure out your role, this is Fran with their already set notions on your role. My post was going over the Day 2 interaction from the start of the day to past the second time you claimed mid-day, and it reads as surface level at best.I would say Gorlak questioned me most, but Fran would be in the second tier of folks who asked questions. You're cherrypicking.
I did not cherry pick a thing. Just because Fran mentioned you in some posts doesn’t mean those posts are Fran ‘figuring things out’ about you.
I mean, that’s how Fran operates. It’s how he talks. But he was definitely engaged, much more so than many, and actively participating in efforts to solve. There are reasons not to fully trust Fran in this game, but his engagement with this topic seems like a weird fixation. There are people actively avoiding conversation, posting absolute fluff, and not engaging and you’re focused on this. I do NOT get it.
What makes you so certain about fandorin as town here either? Dr. Monkey - all I'm seeing is him voting outside main wagons, being sure about turm and Mao way ahead of time and some scum reads on people that could go either way. I wouldn't be surprised if this is scum!fandorin
Yeah well, how is it going Natiko? ... Oh, you're sleeping too?
turmoil7 , Maolfunction ? How is spec chat? Are you lying to Monkey or is she just making up everything? I'm trying here, but I feel a bit unfocused. I think I need to try to come from the other side and find town again. Right now my reads are a mess and I doubt everything. I'd really like to still be around when the first scum flip comes, but I doubt that is going to happen. So I'll have to try now.
Sorry Ketkat, I didn't even get around to throw a read on you. Monkey doesn't want me to look, but maybe there is sth in your posts.
Fantomas, I feel you. Not playing in a long time and being killed right when middle game begins :( feels bad man. Would you still do the same as before or has sth changed here. Mhm.
turmoil7 , Maolfunction ? How is spec chat? Are you lying to Monkey or is she just making up everything? I'm trying here, but I feel a bit unfocused. I think I need to try to come from the other side and find town again. Right now my reads are a mess and I doubt everything. I'd really like to still be around when the first scum flip comes, but I doubt that is going to happen. So I'll have to try now.
Sorry Ketkat, I didn't even get around to throw a read on you. Monkey doesn't want me to look, but maybe there is sth in your posts.
Fantomas, I feel you. Not playing in a long time and being killed right when middle game begins :( feels bad man. Would you still do the same as before or has sth changed here. Mhm.
malus Kitsunelaine Kalor Kopite Anyone around? Where do we need to go?
Kopite has fallen of everyone's radar, no one cares.
Malus is in the same post count regions as the candidates for today's lynch yet no one paid attention to him. Why is that?
Where did all the VA/Zeke suspicions at the start of the day come from? D1 no one even bothered to follow monkey's vote outside of confirmed town. I didn't have the feeling that there were huge doubts about him during D2 either. I have to look at the justifications there.
Kopite has fallen of everyone's radar, no one cares.
Malus is in the same post count regions as the candidates for today's lynch yet no one paid attention to him. Why is that?
Where did all the VA/Zeke suspicions at the start of the day come from? D1 no one even bothered to follow monkey's vote outside of confirmed town. I didn't have the feeling that there were huge doubts about him during D2 either. I have to look at the justifications there.
What even is this monkey? You went in depth on all of your suspects in the pool, but not on meatwad. Just a weak vote with no justification? Hmrpfhagl. WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
Are you for real? You want to talk about breadcrumbs and role fish a bit? You're not satisfied with Doggo saying it could change? What do you want to here? His conditions? What he will be? If you have to night kill him soon?
Kalor didn't say anything. Either it's a fake claim, because he sure as hell didn't play like a vanilla before or if you believe him he got a better town PR that might be useful. Why would you want him to reveal that role? What are you even on about?
Says the one not revealing everything all game.
Vote: Dr. Monkey
That's quite an interesting piece of information in two ways. Firstly the fact you mentioned. And secondly the fact that you mentioned it. Why did you look up how often arsonist was mentioned?
This is sommit I kinda side-eyed from Meatwad. Sure there was plenty of justifiable reasons for any one person to vote Maol, but that doesn’t make it any more or less likely that Scum votes for them.
While I don’t think Scum would want to make their votes obvious, there’s easily a reason a Scum might want to hide amount a crown for a justifiable lynch, even if they know Maol flips Town. It’s an easy vote for Scum and Town to justify, while keeping any given train on that Town rolling along.
hmm, I’m not sure I would characterize this so much as ‘opportunistic’, VAs vote on Turmoil was only the third vote at the time, and for Day 1 play it doesn’t seem that odd for people to latch onto other smaller trains for whatever justifications.
Was there anything on Day 2/3 that sticks out to you about VA/Rage? (sorry if you already answered this).