24 replies to this topic

[ChefDom]

Hey so I was trying to figure out which bows followers can actually equip, the wiki says followers revert to their default hunting bow even after giving them higher level bows.

At first I thought followers that use heavy weapons favor the heavy bows like ebony and daedric and light users favor elven or glass.

But after playing around with different followers they actually equip and use steel-based bows (Imperial, Forsworn, Ancient and Supple Nord Bows) and also Falmer Bows. Also the highest tier bow they equip and use is the Dwarven bow which is relatively light and powerful. I don't know if this has been discussed before but I thought it may be useful.

By the way which npc followers have 100 in archery? I'm sure Jenassa does.

[abacus707]

This is very good information. Thank you. I've been trying to discern the pattern myself for a while. My experience is consistent with your finding. I once noticed that Lydia was wielding an Imperial Bow that I gave her just to carry things. I remembered that Faendal was using an enchanted Dwarven Bow with Soul Trap that I gave him. But I didn't quite figure out the pattern.

I'll update the UESP wiki.

[ChefDom]

This is very good information. Thank you. I've been trying to discern the pattern myself for a while. My experience is consistent with your finding. I once noticed that Lydia was wielding an Imperial Bow that I gave her just to carry things. I remembered that Faendal was using an enchanted Dwarven Bow with Soul Trap that I gave him. But I didn't quite figure out the pattern.

I'll update the UESP wiki.

The community has been awsome so I wanna give back.

[buckom]

By the way which npc followers have 100 in archery? I'm sure Jenassa does.

Aela can max out at 100. I would suspect that any follower on this page who has Archery bolded can max at 100 or close to it.

[ChefDom]

Aela can max out at 100. I would suspect that any follower on this page who has Archery bolded can max at 100 or close to it.

Ya I've checked that page out before, but there is a certain spreadsheet listing all the followers and their actual levels in all the skills, their health, stamina, etc. I clicked on the link before but I can't remember whether it was provided by someone here on one of the topics or on a youtube video. I should have bookmarked it, that, is useful information.

[abacus707]

Ya I've checked that page out before, but there is a certain spreadsheet listing all the followers and their actual levels in all the skills, their health, stamina, etc. I clicked on the link before but I can't remember whether it was provided by someone here on one of the topics or on a youtube video. I should have bookmarked it, that, is useful information.

This one. It's on the wiki page, too. So many followers with 98 archery skill, including Lydia. I say 98 is plenty good enough

https://docs.google....RnM5MkxPaU1mQkE

[ChefDom]

This one. It's on the wiki page, too. So many followers with 98 archery skill, including Lydia. I say 98 is plenty good enough

https://docs.google....RnM5MkxPaU1mQkE

Ah of course, never bothered scrolling all the way down past the bugs.

[buckom]

This one.

https://docs.google....RnM5MkxPaU1mQkE

Yeah, that one. Bookmarked it this time.

It's on the wiki page, too.

Mm-hm.

[sunsi]

I give all my followers Daedric bows and arrows which they use. I have notice a couple reverting to lesser arrows, though.

[abacus707]

Which followers do you use? This has not been my experience.

[NLjeroenNL]

bows..?? i dont know maybe you could use cicero from the dark brotherhood he has 100 one handed and sneak maybe he does high long ranged damage to?

[skooma_fiend]

They will only reliably use better bows if they don't have a default bow of their own. There's no way around this without mods at this time. Unfortunately, it stands to reason that any follower without a default bow probably has a low archery skill.

As for arrows, take all of their default arrows and give them one single Daedric arrow. You've just started your own arrow farm.

[abacus707]

They will only reliably use better bows if they don't have a default bow of their own. There's no way around this without mods at this time. Unfortunately, it stands to reason that any follower without a default bow probably has a low archery skill.

As for arrows, take all of their default arrows and give them one single Daedric arrow. You've just started your own arrow farm.

What ChefDom found was that there are certain bows that followers who start with default bows can be made to wield reliably. This is a new and exciting finding, I think. Now you know that if you give a highly smithed and enchanted Dwarven Bow to Aela or Faendal or Lydia, they will use that bow, not the default hunting bow.

Edited by abacus707, 04 June 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[skooma_fiend]

What ChefDom found was that there are certain bows that followers who start with default bows can be made to wield reliably. This is a new and exciting finding, I think. Now you know that if you give a highly smithed and enchanted Dwarven Bow to Aela or Faendal or Lydia, they will use that bow, not the default hunting bow.

I can't say for 100% certainty but I don't think this has been my experience at all. I abandoned Lydia as a follower right around the time I was encountering and smithing Dwarven gear. There she was in all her gleaming golden glory yet wielding a cheap wooden bow. Frustrating.
I'm going to need to see some corroboration before I accept this information as factual.

[buckom]

There she was in all her gleaming golden glory yet wielding a cheap wooden bow. Frustrating.
I'm going to need to see some corroboration before I accept this information as factual.

Yeah, the only 3 followers I've ever used (Aela, Lydia, and Mjoll) all use the Hunting Bow regardless of what I've given them (usu Ebony). It would be nice if they started using better bows we give them as long as they keep generating whatever arrows we give them. I'm not sure I'd like the trade-off of them using a better bow with me having to keep giving them arrows.

[Shaen]

Has anyone else confirmed this? I plan on trying it tonight but I'm very curious to hear if it's been validated.

[Eord the Nord]

My experience is that followers will use any bow, but not any arrow with it. There seems to be a damage level point of the arrow which causes them to revert to their default hunting bow. I've never tested Orcish (arrow damage 12, bow damage 10), since I rarely use it, but they definitely will not use Dwarven arrows (damage 14) with a Dwarven bow (damage 12). They'll use steel or ancient Nord arrows with it, though (damage 10). And they'll use any arrow with a lower base damage bow, with the "lower base damage" point being 8, or maybe 10. One way around this is to improve a lower damage bow. I got Lydia to use a legendary Forsworn bow (base 8*) with glass arrows. Giving followers archery boosting gear also helps.

I have Lydia equipped with an Orcish bow right now, which she is using with steel arrows. As soon as I can get Orcish arrows, I'll give her some and see what happens. If she reverts to her hunting bow, then I'll know that's the point where this happens.


* The UESP wiki has 12 for the base damage of the Forsworn bow, but the Prima guide has 8. I think the Prima is correct, but I'll have to test it. The Forsworn arrow is only 7.

Edited by Eord the Nord, 04 June 2012 - 05:09 PM.

[abacus707]

My experience is that followers will use any bow, but not any arrow with it. There seems to be a damage level point of the arrow which causes them to revert to their default hunting bow. I've never tested Orcish (arrow damage 12, bow damage 10), since I rarely use it, but they definitely will not use Dwarven arrows (damage 14) with a Dwarven bow (damage 12). They'll use steel or ancient Nord arrows with it, though (damage 10). And they'll use any arrow with a lower base damage bow, with the "lower base damage" point being 8, or maybe 10. One way around this is to improve a lower damage bow. I got Lydia to use a legendary Forsworn bow (base 8*) with glass arrows. Giving followers archery boosting gear also helps.

I have Lydia equipped with an Orcish bow right now, which she is using with steel arrows. As soon as I can get Orcish arrows, I'll give her some and see what happens. If she reverts to her hunting bow, then I'll know that's the point where this happens.


* The UESP wiki has 12 for the base damage of the Forsworn bow, but the Prima guide has 8. I think the Prima is correct, but I'll have to test it. The Forsworn arrow is only 7.

This is an interesting observation. I'll try to get some testing done tonight.

I'm quite familiar with Forsworn bow, because I use this bow quite often in early game. It's the best bow I can get until I switch to Elven Bow in early game. Their bows are really good and yes, their arrows are terrible. Falmer bow/arrow situation is similar, good bow but bad arrow. I prefer forsworn bow to falmer bow because you get steel perk bonus for it.

[abacus707]

I enchanted whole bunch of bows with absorb and fire so that it's visible when the follower uses it. I think Eord is right about his observation. It is consistent with ChefDom's finding but more refined.

When I gave Lydia low level arrow like iron arrow or forsworn arrow to use with the bow, she used up to Glass Bow. When I gave Lydia Daedric arrow, she only used the Long Bow and nothing stronger.

Roughly, the follower will use the bow when the base damage value of the bow + arrow is between 15 and 22. Not to strong, not too weak.

Here is the data I collected:


<bow name> <base damage>
Long Bow 6
Hunting Bow 7
Imperial Bow 8
Dwarven Bow 10
Elven Bow 12
Glass Bow 14
Daedric Bow 18


With Forsworn Arrow (7 damage) 7 + 7 = 14
Long Bow no 6 + 7 = 13
Hunting no
Imperial yes 8 + 7 = 15
Dwarven yes 10 + 7 = 17
Elven yes 12 + 7 = 19
Glass yes 14 + 7 = 22
Daedric no 18 + 7 = 25

With Iron Arrow (8 damage) 7 + 8 = 15
Long Bow no 6 + 8 = 14
Hunting no
Imperial yes 8 + 8 = 16
Dwarven yes 10 + 8 = 18
Elven yes 12 + 8 = 20
Glass yes 14 + 8 = 22
Daedric no 18 + 8 = 26

With Ancient Nord Arrow (10 damage) 7 + 10 = 17
Long Bow yes 6 + 10 = 16
Hunting no
Imperial yes 8 + 10 = 18
Dwarven yes 10 + 10 = 20
Elven no 12 + 10 = 22
Glass no

With Orcish Arrow (12 damage)
Long Bow yes 6 + 12 = 18
Hunting no
Imperial yes 8 + 12 = 20
Dwarven yes 10 + 12 = 22
Elven no

With Dwarven Arrow (14 damage)
Long Bow yes 6 + 14 = 20
Hunting no
Imperial yes 8 + 14 = 22
Dwarven no

With Elven Arrow (16 damage)
Long Bow yes
Hunting no
Imperial yes
Dwarven no

With Glass Arrow (18 damage)
Long Bow yes
Hunting no
Imperial yes
Dwarven no

With Ebony Arrow (20 damage)
Long Bow yes
Hunting no
Imperial yes
Dwarven no

With Daedric Arrow (24 damage)
Long Bow yes 6 + 24 = 32
Hunting no
Imperial no

Edited by abacus707, 04 June 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[ChefDom]

Excellent! Very detailed update Abacus. I never tested them with different arrows but this great info. Staying true to your name with all the math.

[skooma_fiend]

I enchanted whole bunch of bows with absorb and fire so that it's visible when the follower uses it. I think Eord is right about his observation. It is consistent with ChefDom's finding but more refined.

When I gave Lydia low level arrow like iron arrow or forsworn arrow to use with the bow, she used up to Glass Bow. When I gave Lydia Daedric arrow, she only used the Long Bow and nothing stronger.

Roughly, the follower will use the bow when the base damage value of the bow + arrow is between 15 and 22. Not to strong, not too weak.

Here is the data I collected:

Spoiler

<bow name> <base damage>
Long Bow 6
Hunting Bow 7
Imperial Bow 8
Dwarven Bow 10
Elven Bow 12
Glass Bow 14
Daedric Bow 18


With Forsworn Arrow (7 damage) 7 + 7 = 14
Long Bow no 6 + 7 = 13
Hunting no
Imperial yes 8 + 7 = 15
Dwarven yes 10 + 7 = 17
Elven yes 12 + 7 = 19
Glass yes 14 + 7 = 22
Daedric no 18 + 7 = 25

With Iron Arrow (8 damage) 7 + 8 = 15
Long Bow no 6 + 8 = 14
Hunting no
Imperial yes 8 + 8 = 16
Dwarven yes 10 + 8 = 18
Elven yes 12 + 8 = 20
Glass yes 14 + 8 = 22
Daedric no 18 + 8 = 26

With Ancient Nord Arrow (10 damage) 7 + 10 = 17
Long Bow yes 6 + 10 = 16
Hunting no
Imperial yes 8 + 10 = 18
Dwarven yes 10 + 10 = 20
Elven no 12 + 10 = 22
Glass no

With Orcish Arrow (12 damage)
Long Bow yes 6 + 12 = 18
Hunting no
Imperial yes 8 + 12 = 20
Dwarven yes 10 + 12 = 22
Elven no

With Dwarven Arrow (14 damage)
Long Bow yes 6 + 14 = 20
Hunting no
Imperial yes 8 + 14 = 22
Dwarven no

With Elven Arrow (16 damage)
Long Bow yes
Hunting no
Imperial yes
Dwarven no

With Glass Arrow (18 damage)
Long Bow yes
Hunting no
Imperial yes
Dwarven no

With Ebony Arrow (20 damage)
Long Bow yes
Hunting no
Imperial yes
Dwarven no

With Daedric Arrow (24 damage)
Long Bow yes 6 + 24 = 32
Hunting no
Imperial no

Did you really test all those combinations? What an interesting twist. This is so weird that it must be intentional, don't you think?

[buckom]

Damn, Rain Man. Sweet. I copied all that to a text file for next week when someone else asks.

[Eord the Nord]

Heh. And here I was all satisfied that I'd found that Lydia will use Orcish arrows with an Orcish bow, but Dwarven arrows will make her switch back. I wish I had the time to test all those combinations.

[iCollector]

Hmmm... Something off here. Aela uses Daedric arrows - I gave her one, and I harvest them from corpses she kills. Can't say whether she uses the buffed Ebony bow i gave her. ( xbox)

[scoutahead]

I have mainly used Aela as a follower until recently because she readily uses a bow during combat. I have found that if I give her a Forsworn bow, or Falmer bow that she will use that instead of her default hunting bow. Since the Forsworn bow is lighter I have improved one of these to Legendary status and she will still use it even with Deadric arrows. She will even use the Forsworn bow over a much more powerful Glass or Daedric bow. She will NOT use the Legendary Forsworn bow if I enchant it with fire or frost damage enchantments. I am not sure why she does this, but your theory sounds interesting. I am using a PS3 system for the game.

Edited by scoutahead, 08 February 2013 - 02:53 AM.