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[–]JoseMikey 865 points866 points  (279 children)

This seems rational and it should really be said. Especially the homemade/bandana thing as while they will not work like n95 ones they will work like surgical ones. I wonder why governments don’t tell people to save the masks for healthcare professionals but cover up home made style if they want to limit spread and keep the supply for healthcare workers. That would be the best idea to keep to the truth and yet stop panic buying.

[–]01BTC10 370 points371 points  (152 children)

Because if they say they don't work then a lot of peoples won't bother buying them. I keep getting told they are useless even when I cite research papers that tell the opposite. Government propaganda also work!

[–]theAlChemist233 88 points89 points  (104 children)

I heard (from an epidemiology nurse) that the reason masks don't work very well is because the coronavirus has a long lifetime on inanimate objects so you're more likely to get it from touching something than from aerial transmission.

[–]mtechgroup 57 points58 points  (1 child)

Like the front of the mask. Following the instructions helps. Every little bit helps.

[–]Nibblewerfer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Use the loops around the ears to remove the mask is what he is saying.

[–]Mikey4tx 60 points61 points  (70 children)

Right, so use hand sanitizer /soap AND use a mask.

[–]Tregonia 16 points17 points  (67 children)

You'd have to throw the mask out often. You'd be going through a lot of bandanas

[–]jpflathead 52 points53 points  (57 children)

Wash it in high temperature water with detergent?

[–]Jammer521 12 points13 points  (27 children)

yup, just wash it with a little bleach

[–]jpflathead 20 points21 points  (21 children)

seems like a good recipe would be

  • wash at high temp with detergent and bleach
  • dry at high temp
  • hang it in the sun

[–]Jammer521 26 points27 points  (9 children)

I'm a stay at home dad, my wife is a nurse and I do the laundry, as soon as she gets home she takes off her scrubs and they go directly in the wash, I usually use tide+Bleach detergent, never really had any problems before so that's what I'm stick to

[–]AnxiouslyPerplexed 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I think vinegar can also do the trick on viruses, if you really don't want to bleach your scarf/bandanna/whatever you are using as a mask (as someone whose wardrobe is 90% black/dark colours) Bleach is the 'sure-fire' way to kill infectious particles of course, but I have read studies suggesting vinegar works well against influenza & related viruses. Personally, I prefer vinegar and eucalyptus/tea tree oil, and will use it far more often, but will only ever use bleach when I really need to kill any trace of bacteria/body fluids/possible infectious particles

(note:I am in no way advocating that anyone should use vinegar, essential oils, or any other 'homeopathic' type solution INSTEAD of bleach when health is the most serious concern. I do feel better doing an extra wash with vinegar, and/or running a weekly tub clean/self clean cycle on my washing machine with vinegar and eucalyptus, than just using bleach only when I feel it is absolutely necessary. I'm also very sensitive to chlorine and bleach, so I prefer to avoid the blinding headaches as much as possible. If you have no problem using bleach, of course use that for proper disinfection/sterilising)

[–]ExpiredLifetime 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Cleaning vinegar is perfectly fine (this has a higher acetic acid concentration than cooking vinegar). The hospital I previously worked at used vinegar to clean the trauma rooms because bleach left noxious fumes.

Here’s a study where vinegar was compared against hydrogen peroxide and formaldehyde for sterilizing extracted human teeth; vinegar was found to be effective.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5020301/

[–]AnxiouslyPerplexed 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you for that! I would not have expected vinegar to be as effective as formalin and peroxide - and certainly not superior to autoclaving (having sterilised medical implements with an autoclave, working in a doctors office, I honestly thought it would be the top/most effective method for disinfection)

[–]FTThrowAway123 10 points11 points  (6 children)

You could probably boil a bandana or other homemade mask to sanitize it, you'd just have to be ultra vigilant about taking it off, handling it, probably use tongs or something to put it in the water, and sanitize everything after use. (And wash your hands with antibacterial soap, and don't touch your face!)

[–]Mescallan 17 points18 points  (1 child)

just like the rest of your clothes, right?

[–]Jager1966 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Some of what gets said here is ludicrous.

[–]geckolalia 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’m pretty sure most viruses including covid 19 would be removed by a hot washing machine cycle followed by a long stint in the dryer. I mean it’s important to be practical because it’s way more convenient to throw a bandanna in the wash than to boil it. And if something’s convenient, more people will do it regularly.

[–]toxictoads 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Are you throwing away all of your clothing? And if the mask would get so dangerously contaminated while wearing it, isn’t it a good idea to wear it and have it catch (some of) the viruses instead of having them go directly into ones lungs?

[–]ncov-me 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Put it in the microwave in a tupperware wih some boiling water for 2 mins somehow - to give it a steam clean. Then hang it to dry ready to go out for the next time.

[–]Mynewestaccount34578 30 points31 points  (4 children)

It depends on your definition of works.

If people mean that most wearers will get infected some other time, some other way - such as touching their eyes after touching infected clothes then it doesn’t « work » ....

But if you’re talking literally about the masks rated ability to prevent the virus getting breathed in, it works.

[–]Frosti11icus 30 points31 points  (29 children)

The logic doesn't even make sense, like...if it works in preventing others from getting your sickness it will work in reverse...it's not like the air pores are one-way...

[–]Daj4n0 29 points30 points  (4 children)

It works because the mask reduce the speed of the air of your sneeze, it doesn't prevent the virus from scaping your mask, it just makes the AOE smaller, which makes a huge difference.

[–]danielrm26 26 points27 points  (16 children)

Actually it is like that for many masks.

[–]Mikey4tx 17 points18 points  (15 children)

And the filter activates on the INHALE. That's the point of an N95 mask - the inhalation filter catches 95% of particles .3 microns or larger.

[–]lilB0bbyTables 11 points12 points  (6 children)

One argument to make is that the masks prevent people from touching their mouths and nose as much. Which is partially true, but people tend to make adjustments to the mask which is risky. Masks can be beneficial preventatives but require a lot of proper behavior (sterilized hands before using, sterilized hands after removing, not using a single mask for too long and not reusing those masks). I have a half-face silicone fitted respirator mask with P100 filter canisters which certainly will filter what is breathed in (which is why they're rated for cleanup of hazardous materials, chemicals and biological entities such as the Hantavirus in dust from rodent droppings/urine (which happens to be the specific use-case I had acquired mine for).

...and yes, those are very much sold out right now.

[–]krewes 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Or they don't work but save them for HCWs?????

[–]DarkBomberX 24 points25 points  (24 children)

Now I'm confused. So the normal surgery/cough mask you can buy at a CVS or Walgreens DO work and my government is lying to me, or am I missing something?

[–]elveswearhandsocks 46 points47 points  (10 children)

It's not going to hurt you. If Joe Bob decides to cough and you're walking behind him inhaling his cough droplets, well, you'll soon know how shitty coronavirus is. Masks and nitrile gloves can help against touching surfaces and touching your face. A tiny drop of sanitizer on gloves goes a much longer way than it does on your hands. Or if you bite your nails or pick your nose or play with facial hair.. then the virus just sits on your face and your partner gets it next time they kiss you.

I do a type of lab work for a living (I am not an expert or doctor or recognized professional) I can't imagine not wearing a mask while sick or surrounded by sick. I legit feel like I'm taking crazy pills with people saying oh lol they don't help. Just breathing on an agar dish, for example, causes a forest of growth within days and that's not even viral which are smaller and mostly (always?) RNA.

Nobody has been able to hold a candle to this yet:

IF THEY DO NOTHING WHY DO MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS HAVE TO WEAR THEM DURING SENSITIVE PROCEDURES

[–]wunder_bar 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Medical professionals also use eye protection, know how to properly use/remove the mask, are more likely to be within range of sick people.
They work, but they're going to be more effective on health care workers. On the general population its better to wash your hands, avoid going out and to quarantine yourself when sick.

IF THEY DO NOTHING WHY DO MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS HAVE TO WEAR THEM DURING SENSITIVE PROCEDURES

and you said it yourself, "Just breathing on an agar dish, for example, causes a forest of growth within days"
It's to avoid getting the patient sick

[–]elveswearhandsocks 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Right but even without eye protection or professional wearing/removal of a mask is still miles beyond doing nothing. I think that is the part that is being lost on people. If you wash your hands and put on a mask and have proper facial hair, you're so incredibly protected versus someone who isn't. This virus is gonna be hanging around forever and people are gonna keep shooting viral mist in enclosed spaces. There's just this whole "zero percent effectiveness" type attitude that I keep seeing people push. Nobody in the US covers their mouth nor observes personal space.

It's like how washing your hands and scrubbing bubbles in between fingers and backs and palms of hands is miles beyond hand sanitizer, but it doesn't mean you should stop applying sanitizer. It shouldn't be funny or weird or odd or reinforced that they're not effective.

"are more likely to be within range of sick people."

Everyone's gonna be in proximity of very sick people very soon.

[–]Cyanaliq 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I don't get you whatsoever.

You are comparing:

- Wearing a mask; and

- Washing your hands, avoid going out, quarantining yourself when sick.

Why is that a comparison? Just do both. The only logical comparison should be mask VS no mask for the general public. Washing hands etc should not even be mentioned.

[–]MoreTuple 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Masks for medical workers in highly infectious zones would do more to delay and arrest the spread of infection than everyone rushing out to create a shortage. As that's hard to get across, the story becomes Masks Bad which is of course absurd but at this point, they kinda are if the shortage causes more spread. Had you bought masks before the shortage, you'd be all good but for now leave them to people who need them.

[–]AgreeablePie 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Being deceptive is a great way to get people to distrust you. I'm not sure this is the best time to have people distrusting medical authorities.

[–]Yew_Tree 74 points75 points  (0 children)

This is a very, very good question isn't it?

[–]turkey_is_dead 15 points16 points  (4 children)

You know why. They don’t care about you. They care about you keep buying shit in public, going to restaurants, traveling, consuming. Masks make all that seem frivolous and unimportant all of a sudden.

[–]2h2o22h2o 52 points53 points  (8 children)

Moreover, why is the consumers job not to buy them? Tell the manufacturers and the distributors to only sell them into the healthcare supply chain if they don’t want people to have them. Don’t make the guy trying to keep his family safe the scapegoat when it’s a corporate decision.

[–]TwoTriplets 42 points43 points  (56 children)

We all know that people aren't rational and will start stockpiling and hording them.

You simply can't use nuance when communicating with a mass of panicked people.

[–]dayi7542 116 points117 points  (18 children)

People can only stockpile what they can buy. I find it absurd that the govt/media are begging consumers not to buy so that healthcare workers can have them. Then why are they being sold in stores? Shouldn't the healthcare companies, hospitals or governments be buying them before they even get to stores? And didn't they have weeks to do this??

[–]LessThanFunFacts 68 points69 points  (0 children)

Shouldn't the healthcare companies, hospitals or governments be buying them before they even get to stores? And didn't they have weeks to do this??

Yes, and yes. The government has chosen not to do any of the things it can do.

[–]sorehamstring 27 points28 points  (6 children)

This! Is the hospital going to go to the hardware store and pick up some sanding masks?

[–]krewes 18 points19 points  (0 children)

No they get them from medical suppliers. McKesson is a Countrywide company. Around the First week in February the government told them and other companies no more sales to the public.

Also dentists are being rationed. I don't know about other facilities

[–]saralt 9 points10 points  (0 children)

They fucked up and now they're shifting blame.

[–]flabberwabber 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Because there are a whole bunch of at-risk individuals such as those who are elderly, with severe illnesses, immuno-compromised individuals, that need to be able to get hold of these masks. That’s why they are sold publicly. You can’t expect them to make a trip to a hospital now just to get a mask, right?

But given the huge spread that’s happening and with tons of people who do not know if they have covid or not, I can understand why people are wearing masks and why some governments have sort of asked people to wear masks (instead of the reverse in countries with not much community spread).

[–]plazmablu 17 points18 points  (3 children)

Well, the government could step in and distribute masks to those at-risk people and then let the remainder go to the market.

[–]Swan_Writes 25 points26 points  (8 children)

You have to maintain some basic transparency and adhere to well accepted science with an educated public, or you lose all trust and authority.

[–]LinuxProphet 11 points12 points  (1 child)

The current government has been proving that wrong to the tune of around 40% of Americans. Huge numbers are totally disregarding the very true point you make here.

[–]2h2o22h2o 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Seriously. If this government told me the sky was blue I would go outside to check. No credibility on anything going into this mess, and it’s paying negative dividends now.

[–]WackyBeachJustice 8 points9 points  (4 children)

On the flip side John will be at Costco ASAP buying a Tahoe XL worth of masks because FECK EVERYONE ELSE.

[–]Minivil 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Well, stores should have put a purchase limit on them when they noticed what was happening. Like eggs at Aldi. :)

[–]drcode 16 points17 points  (16 children)

It's also preventing us from undertaking efforts to ramp up mask production in the US. If the US said "masks are good" then maybe we could work together to find ways to quickly make more masks.

[–]TheESLTeacher 8 points9 points  (15 children)

So I learned how to make masks by hand and would be more than happy to help any way I can. I upload new ones nearly every day as I finish sewing them! I also take custom orders, if you'd like a special print or color. Check out my Etsy: https://etsy.me/38r0J4s

[–]Habulahabula 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Filters up to how many microns?

[–]chrissycakes 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I love your masks!

[–]TheESLTeacher 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Aww thank you! I love making them, just because it's so fun making the different prints and colors. And it's such a huge need right now. 💜

[–]chrissycakes 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Agreed! I want to bump your Etsy store to the top of this thread so much.

[–]yingbo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's not reason to straight up lying to them and say masks don't work.

[–]krewes 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Google somewhere a study was floating around about soaking the paper surgical masks in salt letting it dry and it was very effective. I'm sure a bandanna or better yet cotton tee material mask soaked in salt wouldn't be a bad idea. That study may even be on here. I frankly have done so much reading in the last few weeks every things running together

[–]WelbyReddit 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would love to wear bandanas. They look cool. They could be functionally fashionable!

[–]ITninja300 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would think the findings in this study are common sense...

[–]cavmax 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Only problem is that if they aren't disposable you will be bringing the virus home with you.

[–]AgreeablePie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If that's true you would be bringing it home with you anyway, except in your lungs.

[–]MosquitoPHD 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Unless it's a respirator and you know how to use it / decontaminate it

[–]Etcheves 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I agree with you 100%

[–]kellykrunch 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Obama tweeted this out today actually.

[–]omax316 362 points363 points  (17 children)

I just gave away eight N95 masks today to an elderly lady at Walmart. She was really worried because she has been looking for them all week and she couldn't find any. Her husband is immune compromised. I have a soft spot for elderly people. My husband said I got suckered. Lol.

[–]groundlessground 196 points197 points  (4 children)

No way, you didn’t get suckered, that’s wonderful. More people need to be sharing and worrying about people other than their family.

[–]VantablackPilled 38 points39 points  (2 children)

Lol I've seen old people blatantly lie in situations less stressful than this. There is definitely a high probability that she got fleeced but she did the right thing.

[–]DontMicrowaveCats 16 points17 points  (1 child)

I mean, depending on her age...mortality rates are 3-5x higher for elderly people. She still needed it more.

[–]drcode 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I've been thinking of every older or chronically I'll person I know and have been giving them and sending them N95 masks. (well, only the ones that I know would value it at the moment and not let it go to waste... the others will get theirs when the SHTF)

[–]cheeruphumanity 10 points11 points  (1 child)

We need more people like you. The world would be a better place for all of us.

[–]surprisesugarfree 232 points233 points  (127 children)

This is hilarious given all the misguided commenters insisting that masks and respirators have no protective value outside of medical settings.

[–]Raptorbite 19 points20 points  (0 children)

do they ever wonder why people who work in the morgue, or OR, or the autopsy places wear masks?

the masks & respirators may not have any protective value to the person wearing them, but if we all wore the masks, there is a network multiplicative effect, where the transmission gets cut by a percentage, multiple times over, or each time another person in the group/set puts on a mask.

[–]YakYai 120 points121 points  (32 children)

All anyone has to do is google what was recommended for SARS and Swine Flu (or any other outbreak). Masks were fine and recommend if you were exposed to someone with the virus. If they are recommended for you to wear while near someone with the virus, then they work. Period. Suddenly, they no longer worn for this virus.

All of these “experts” saying they don’t work are full of shit and are saying it because there are not enough. Use your head, people. Google what has happened in the last and see how you’re being lied to.

About SARS: https://i.imgur.com/VFaIXmi.jpg

[–]TenYearsTenDays 32 points33 points  (4 children)

It reminds me of this passage from 1984:

As short a time ago as February, the Ministry of Plenty had issued a promise (a “categorical pledge” were the official words) that there would be no reduction of the chocolate ration during 1984. Actually, as Winston was aware, the chocolate ration was to be reduced from thirty grammes to twenty at the end of the present week. All that was needed was to substitute for the original promise a warning that it would probably be necessary to reduce the ration at some time in April.

There is a shortage, but they'd rather lie about it than admit the truth since admitting there's a shortage reflects poorly on them. It means that they didn't plan well enough for this type of event. It's terrible and these lies they're telling will cost lives.

[–]chokeychokey 11 points12 points  (55 children)

Yeah, I’m confused.

[–]imnotjohnstockton 55 points56 points  (26 children)

Essentially there’s not enough N95s out there to cover all high risk healthcare workers in the U.S., so it makes sense for the media and the surgeon general to tell people to stop buying masks. Nevertheless, this does not mean that N95s are ineffective because they are obviously better than nothing... this is backed up by scientific literature, testing done by the NIOSH, and straight up common sense. Ideally if there were enough 3M 1860 N95s out there for every individual, then yeah all healthcare providers and mainstream media would be telling people to mask up.

[–]surprisesugarfree 25 points26 points  (8 children)

Sadly, many people can't distinguish between "you shouldn't buy n95s" and "n95s are ineffective".

[–]the_good_time_mouse 28 points29 points  (6 children)

Unsurprising though, given the concerted attempts by authorities to conflate the two facts.

[–]dlerium 8 points9 points  (5 children)

The problem is the CDC is super careful in its wording. Anyone with basic reading comprehension skills can understand that they're not saying N95s don't work. However too many people take these statements and run away with them turning them into misinformation with "masks don't work"

Follow CDC’s recommendations for using a facemask.

CDC does not recommend that people who are well wear a facemask to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19.

Facemasks should be used by people who show symptoms of COVID-19 to help prevent the spread of the disease to  others. The use of facemasks is also crucial for health workers and people who are taking care of someone in close settings (at home or in a health care facility).

[–]tzipp 6 points7 points  (2 children)

The people taking these statements and turning it into misinformation often seem to be in a position of authority or media. It takes a decent level of reading comprehension and critical thinking, as well as willingness to go against the group, to come to the conclusion that masks are useful and worth bearing some social shame in the name of harm reduction.

The same goes with transmission. Most people hear "wash your hands" and hygiene, but if you pull up the CDC page on transmission, it says the primary means is droplet. It seems beaten into their heads and social distancing is often not on the radar. You would obviously need to do both, but what I mean is people are confused as to what is occurring and what works.

[–]GailaMonster 10 points11 points  (3 children)

It's also important to note that any covering, even a bandana, helps somewhat. So even if you only have a balaclava (or two, doubled up), that IS better than nothing.

I strongly suggest everyone start wearing SOMETHING. the faster we normalize the covering of the face, the faster it's the people WITHOUT covering who will get the dirty looks.

If every cough and sneeze had a hankie in front of it, that would slow spread. might not eliminate, but we really need every cumulative incremental improvement possible.

[–]FTThrowAway123 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Yeah I imagine if everyone is wearing masks--both the people who are coughing, and everyone else around them--, it would at least make it slightly more difficult for the virus to spread. Of course it wouldn't eliminate the risk, but wouldn't it be better to have at least some kind of barrier on your face rather than just mainlining infected droplets straight into your nose/mouth?

[–]Zzzinzin 59 points60 points  (27 children)

I’m a scientist, I train yearly to use N95 respirators. I want to share what I know about them. When I get certified every year they spray test particles around me and hook up a special mask that measures how many particles get through, just in case anyone is interested in what that involves. I use them because I operate a cell sorter that has the potential to aerosolize infectious particles from the human samples I use. We have an aerosol management system hooked up to the cell sorter, so in normal operation I don’t have to wear a respirator. If the aerosol management system clogs though, I am supposed to wear an N95 to clear the clogged machinery. The whole point is to protect me from infectious particles while I do that. The samples I sort are low risk, but we treat all human samples as potentially infectious, which is standard BL2 protocol. It’s been extremely disconcerting to see the US government try to claim that N95 masks don’t protect from infection. It’s true that you might not get a good seal if you aren’t trained in it, but it will help reduce exposure even if it’s not as good of a reduction as it could be with a full seal. Just watching a video of how to wear one would work for better public training. I do understand that SARS-CoV-2 is smaller than the pore size of the N95 mask, so that’s another reduction in effectiveness. It’s my opinion, and it’s only an opinion, that it would still reduce exposure. Healthcare workers are going to be exposed to high viral loads, so more will get through. The bottom line is that N95 masks have been used for years to reduce exposure for infectious particles. It’s disinformation to tell people otherwise.

[–]chokeychokey 14 points15 points  (14 children)

Thank you for your professional insight. My family and I will be wearing masks once we find some

[–]Zzzinzin 15 points16 points  (3 children)

To put the mask on, hold it to your face and then put the elastic straps around your head. Pinch the nose piece, which has a metal strip in it, around your nose. To check the seal, blow lightly into the mask. You should feel the obstruction of airflow along all the edges. If you have facial hair the mask won’t seal. People with facial hair where I work use a PAPR respirator.

I am not wearing a mask in public yet. I can’t advise anyone on the social situation. If I were in Seattle I would be wearing one in public at this point.

[–]d01100100 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I am not wearing a mask in public yet. I can’t advise anyone on the social situation. If I were in Seattle I would be wearing one in public at this point.

It's still winter and still cold in some climes. I've been wearing a scarf in public. It's better than nothing.

[–]frustrated135732 4 points5 points  (9 children)

You also can’t wear the same mask for extended periods of time.

Personally, I won’t be wearing one because I know I’m so much more tempted to touch my face when I wear one. If I do get sick, I’ll wear one.

[–]surprisesugarfree 8 points9 points  (3 children)

That's interesting because I touch my face much less when I wear one.

[–]frustrated135732 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I think everyone is different.

When I wear a mask at work (BSL-2 lab), I usually don all other PPE as well, I’m focused, and I’m very intentional and I don’t ever touch my face.

If I wear a mask because I’m sick, and don’t want to expose someone else I always feel myself scratching the sides of it, or adjusting it. I do it without thinking, especially when I’m busy doing something else.

[–]Zzzinzin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I touch my face less because I wear gloves all day, it really makes you more aware of of how much you touch your face.

[–]Zzzinzin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

After a while the mask becomes saturated with moisture, which compromises the barrier. Our protocol is to never reuse a mask and to change them regularly. We have no guidance for shortages of masks though.

[–]dlerium 10 points11 points  (5 children)

It’s my opinion, and it’s only an opinion, that it would still reduce exposure.

Isn't that the whole point? No one expects respirators or masks to be 100% effective. No PPE is after all. Reducing exposure is already suggesting its effective.

[–]Zzzinzin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah that’s the whole point, and it’s situational. An N95 is supposed to be blocking 95% of particles from getting through at maximum effectiveness. In a bad situation I’d take any % over zero.

[–]StatisticaPizza 27 points28 points  (4 children)

I'm honestly amazed people are buying into it. What exactly is the logic here?

"Masks don't work! So please don't buy them because we need them for the staff treating COVID patients"

If the masks don't help then why do the healthcare providers need them? Do nurses and doctors have some special immune system that magically makes masks effective?

[–]tzipp 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Seems to work because people don't like to stop and think and update their mental models, unless you force them to snap out of it, and even then I've seen the strangest mix of logic and denial.

Friend of mine is well aware of how China's economy has been disrupted by COVID-19 and their response to it, but as far as it is concerned in the US, treats it as a complete joke and the virus absolutely nothing. Like, completely able to logically reason about the situation in China and global economic ramifications, but then applies fairy dust for the west. Even taunts people about it. Then goes back to talking about the supply-chain ramifications. I don't even.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's called Normalcy Bias; wherein a person underestimates the likelihood and effects of a disaster.

[–]Dr_O 7 points8 points  (2 children)

The masks work as long as you use them correctly. COVID-19 is likely just droplet transmission just like the flu. The problem occurs when people think by wearing a mask that they are protected. The reason it works for medical settings is we know how to properly apply, wash hands properly before and after removing and disposing the masks. The more you reuse the mask the less effective it is, the longer you continuously wear it the less effective it is. So yes, wear a mask if you know how to put it on and take it off and it will slightly lower your chances. But mainly just wash your hands frequently and don’t touch your mucous membranes if your hands are unwashed. This study is just testing theory and not actual clinical use so I’d be weary of changing practice based on this study.

[–]Whitrian 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Imagine people still believe everything WHO saids about how masks are useless when worn by healthy people, while they are half the reason this pandemic spread so fast to the whole world.

It's common sense guys. This virus spreads primarily by droplets and in special occasions aerosols via coming in contact with your mucous membranes. Whatever you can wear that reduces these tiny droplets of liquids coming in contact with your mucous membranes at eyes, nose, and mouth will undoubtedly help reduce your risk of getting infected. And this of course includes washing your hands and good personal hygenie practice because you just touched something that has the virus with your hand and then you rub your face or your phone with your hands.

This isn't exactly rocket science.

[–]Dale-Peath 83 points84 points  (16 children)

I thought this was common sense. Holy shit. Fences may not be bulletproof but they all do one thing, delay.

[–]Onlyroad4adrifter 20 points21 points  (10 children)

Common sense is not that common these days. People believe that every thing on the internet is real and the us president never lies.

[–]CokeInMyCloset 15 points16 points  (8 children)

Everyone down to local officials in King County are saying masks are ineffective. They know that’s not true but are trying avoid panic and a shortage of masks for health workers (somewhat reasonable since we seem to be extremely underprepared).

Problem is— they threw out this misconception about masks and a majority of Americans seem to trust them. This is not only allowing the virus to spread more easily (as people continue their daily routine), it will be even harder to re-educate the public on masks once we do have enough.

[–]PedroEglasias 19 points20 points  (4 children)

it's also creating an incentive for people to attack anyone wearing a mask 'because they are spreading panic' and creating a fear of wearing them among the public because people don't want to be seen as potentially carrying the virus....it's actually insanity

[–]CokeInMyCloset 13 points14 points  (3 children)

I know, Yesterday I went out for the first time since last Friday (King County), wore a mask, glasses, and gloves. Didn’t see a single other person wearing anything and people looked at me like I was an alien.

Two vendors at a drug story had an active debate going when I walked into their isle, as soon they saw me both went completely silent until I left the isle and started walking away.

I’ve lived in Asia for the last several years where wearing a mask is a norm during flu season— even if you’re not sick.

[–]Fun-Table 43 points44 points  (0 children)

Wait... you're saying SOMETHING is BETTER than NOTHING?????

[–]nammaru 138 points139 points  (11 children)

The anti-face mask propaganda must die. There's a reason why countries all over the world encourage their populous to wear masks. If you're scared about people mis-using them, then teach them. Wearing a mask isn't rocket science. If you're scared about healthcare workers not having access to face masks, then try to produce more of them. Don't give false information of how masks are ineffective outside the medical arena.

[–]skullirang 23 points24 points  (2 children)

People, especially here in California are up their butts against wearing masks, it's stupid.

Even Dr. Ho Pak-Leung, who heads the University of Hong Kong's Center for Infection said this helped dramatically reduce largescale flare ups in HK because 95% of people were wearing masks.

He noted that almost 95 percent of the people in Hong Kong started wearing masks as a precaution after that. He said this prevented large scale flare-ups despite the crowded environment and dense housing in Hong Kong.

[–]huskeya4 6 points7 points  (3 children)

The biggest problem is that the US isn’t producing enough. I work in a glassblowing studio. We are no longer receiving masks from our supplier and we can’t find any. Every week we have to prep new glass to go in the furnace (a powder called batch that is pretty bad to inhale). When we run out of masks, our studio will be forced to close due to these safety reasons. Our studio is at a college so we can’t even run it with homemade masks. All other hazardous/toxic work has been put on hold just so we can keep the masks for new glass. We won’t be the only industry to get shut down due to a lack of masks. The US needs to start supplying US mask makers. Other countries are overwhelmed with their own population’s mask needs and can’t ship them to the US anymore.

[–]luuucas247 15 points16 points  (0 children)

And Asians got beaten up in Europe for wearing masks

[–]Adult_Minecrafter 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Masks are cheap as shit. Nobody knows anything about this virus but they magically know “masks are completely useless.”

Yeah. Doesn’t take much critical thinking to see what’s going on here.

[–]tusi2 39 points40 points  (0 children)

South China Morning Post (HK) How-To - Homemade Mask - https://youtu.be/aNjpH5lBZ8w

[–]napalmnacey 60 points61 points  (7 children)

I was walking my kid to school the other day, and another mother with a niqab on walks past (it’s got the *best* scarf in it, black with shiny metallic design on it - I *covet* that thing), and I thought, “You know, she’s probably really well protected from disease in that thing.”

Hard to touch her face, protection from aerosol infection, and she protects others if she coughs or sneezes. I mean, racists can scoff, but you can’t say a niqab ain’t handy.

[–]TransparentBrickWall 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Had the same discussion at work the other day about the variety of different headcoverings there are among different regional backgrounds.

[–]Swan_Writes 15 points16 points  (0 children)

A personal tent can to be a wonderful thing. Just important to retain the freedom to remove when desired.

[–]xvs[S] 74 points75 points  (28 children)

Methodology

We assessed transmission reduction potential provided by personal respirators, surgical masks and home-made masks when worn during a variety of activities by healthy volunteers and a simulated patient.

Principal Findings

All types of masks reduced aerosol exposure, relatively stable over time, unaffected by duration of wear or type of activity, but with a high degree of individual variation. Personal respirators were more efficient than surgical masks, which were more efficient than home-made masks. Regardless of mask type, children were less well protected. Outward protection (mask wearing by a mechanical head) was less effective than inward protection (mask wearing by healthy volunteers).

Conclusions/Significance

Any type of general mask use is likely to decrease viral exposure and infection risk on a population level, in spite of imperfect fit and imperfect adherence, personal respirators providing most protection. Masks worn by patients may not offer as great a degree of protection against aerosol.

[–]StoriedPast 13 points14 points  (1 child)

When my dad was hospitalized with typical flu (positive test of course) there was a sign on the outside of his door that everyone entering had to don a new MASK and gloves each time you entered and it stated that this included all medical staff and visitors. I am blown away that our government would say that masks are ineffective.

Let's see Trump and Pence in a room sit next to a person who has tested positive for coronavirus and who is coughing. Would they insist on a mask?

[–]HydeSpectre 27 points28 points  (4 children)

I'll wear my Halloween mask.

[–]AlexaSkillsDev 16 points17 points  (2 children)

If you go for a creepy one, it should at keep people away from you and, therefore, provide a level of protection. Not a bad idea!

[–]ruffledcollar 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Time to go medieval and break out the plague doctor mask.

[–]Studentdoctor563 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Masks work for sure. Even surgical masks protect to a degree against droplet precautions. People are saying not to get masks because it’s a supply issue.

[–]LaFantasmita 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Yup. Masks may help the random consumer reduce their chances by 20% (number pulled out of my ass), because let's say 80% of the public gets it by touching something and touching their face, and 20% by being coughed on. And with all of that, the random person begins with a MODERATE chance of catching it. Consider all the flu seasons that you DIDN'T get a cold or flu, while walking around without a mask and probably touching your face all the time.

They'll help a healthcare worker MUCH more than that, because they're better versed in protective procedures, and especially because, without the mask, they have an IMMENSELY HIGH chance of catching it because they're in constant close proximity to infected people coughing all over them as part of their job.

And when the healthcare worker gets sick, they may infect other (likely not in great condition to start with) patients at the facility, and then they end up out of commission themselves. This makes it much harder to treat people and stem the flow, and can lead to a huge increase both in the number and severity of cases.

So, a healthcare worker having a mask is MUCH MUCH MUCH more important than Joe Public. It will reduce their chances from "YOU WILL CATCH CORONAVIRUS TODAY FOR SURE" to "you have a high chance of being all right," where for Joe public it might decrease his chances by 20%, until he absentmindedly touches his face after shaking someone's hand.

If there was a huge abundance of masks, sure, Joe public go get yourself a box or 20. But it's the icing on the wash-your-hands-and-don't-touch-your-face cake.

[–]crispswish 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Agree. But the government implying masks are useless is just wrong.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (22 children)

This is what I was thinking. I can't possibly wear a mask every day, but I could wear a scarf. Something is better than nothing.

[–]Swan_Writes 7 points8 points  (12 children)

I’ve been promoting this on here for, it’s a bit of a blur, at least a week or more. The Homecraft industry could bust into action and make things out of fabric, foam, paper, tissue paper, that would help protect people in urban areas far more than they currently are being protected.

Edit: I’m saying this is something that could be organized on Etsy.

[–]cavmax 2 points3 points  (2 children)

But they need to be disposable so you don't bring the virus into your home that is the benefit of actual masks.

[–]BPRDAgent7 52 points53 points  (13 children)

You mean covering your mouth is better than not? Then why are the "experts" saying otherwise???

[–]dragnar1212 40 points41 points  (12 children)

cus they cant get there hands on mask any more

[–]PotatoVarnishOrigin 9 points10 points  (1 child)

duct tape & plastic sheeting time again!!!

[–]Thann 7 points8 points  (2 children)

So you're saying it's appropriate to wear a GuyFawkes or Fsociety mask to work?

[–]AlexsisD 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Nobody I seen was wearing masks on trains etc... Everyone going out coughing, licking their fingers touching stuff. Gross the things I seen people carrying on though nothing was wrong, business as usual. I myself am trying to stay healthy safe etc... some people don't care and others care way too much. *Witnessing people out and about during a coronavius* :(

[–]zepherance 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It’s what happens when government downplays the severity of it. I keep hearing the argument nobody is wearing a mask so why should I worry? Well uhm. If nobody is wearing a mask then you should be worried even more. If everyone wore a mask and theoretically speaking it slowed or reduced the transmission rate by 50%. Then, it gives the health care system a buffer and a chance to process patients without getting overwhelmed.

[–]prguitarman 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The fact that almost every other country has found good use of masks even if not infected says it all. It’ll be an uphill battle trying to persuade people here in the USA. I’m STILL getting the “flu is worse” argument

[–]Ghidorah64 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Accidentally read as banana, slightly disappointed

[–]dubbymcdoogle 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Masks don’t work, but don’t buy them because healthcare workers need them.

Huh? If they don’t work, then why do healthcare workers need them? Why isn’t anyone asking this question?

Honestly healthcare workers need them more because they have the potential to spread the virus and also have the potential to contract the virus way more then your average joe.

Seriously, masks should be reserved for healthcare workers, gas station clerks, grocery clerks, bus and taxi drivers and anyone that provides a basic human necessity.

[–]highskip 13 points14 points  (2 children)

It WORKS because if you have the virus and are asymptomatic you are at least not infecting more people! hence, reducing the spread of the virus.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

No, it works because it prevents you breathing droplets which is the main way the virus is transmitted.

[–]mtechgroup 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I had a procedure and was told to wear a mask in public. I was not contagious, but instead vulnerable. What does that tell you about masks.

[–]FantasyPizzaBaseball 6 points7 points  (5 children)

This is a terrible paper and doesn't address the likelihood of infection with/without a mask in a systematic manner. Perhaps there is other good evidence, but this isn't convincing.

[–]RaoulDuke209 4 points5 points  (2 children)

My city is about to be pearl clutching as I break out the Shemagh.

[–]shaddowkhan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Mask already help by eliminating unconscious face touching. If mask don't work why do health care professionals wearing them then?

[–]a2clef 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Uhhh, I don't want to repost, but this information seems very relevant to this topic:

There are some study on the reusability of N95 masks after SARS outbreak, in case there's a shortage.

I'll link them anyway:

Study on Stability of Melt-blown Polypropylene Electret Nonwoven Used as Air Filter soaked in Disinfector

抛弃式防尘口罩灭菌再使用之可行性探讨

They are in Chinese but the main result is:

  1. Oven at 70C 30 min/ UV light at 254nm 303uw/cm^2 30sec will effectively disinfect the mask without compromise it at all
  2. liquid disinfectant can effectively disinfect the mask, but will reduce the filtering efficacy much more significant than dry methods
  3. BUT, among several liquid disinfectant tested, they only reduce filtering efficacy by around 1% AT MOST!! N95 masks can be effectively disinfected with alcohol and still at 94% efficacy, no longer higher than 95% but it's still very effective protection!
  4. No matter how you disinfect the mask, you should replace it when it's hard to breath with it.

I'll try my best to answer questions, but please spread this information. Don't throw away masks as they are getting even harder to get.

[–]yanglei1007 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Of course masks work! Every Chinese know this. Actually, every normal people know this. Why do you think doctors in hospital wear masks? For fashion?

[–]youwutnow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's easy enough to make something at home. It might not look good, but it'll do something. Even if it's to just remind you to not touch your face and catch when you cough. I'll be fashioning some masks out of stockings and sanitary towels on the weekend as I have a lot of public transport to catch in London :/

[–]Minivil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lots of patterns for homemade, reusable masks. You can buy them individually on Etsy (yay, small business opportunity!), use bandannas as a crude cover (my kids use these at home when they have colds bc they cannot learn to cover their coughing mouths). I think I’m going to pull out the sewing machine and whip up some.

[–]alexdark1123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

buy EPA filters, make DIY masks

[–]TenYearsTenDays 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for posting this! This information needs to get out there. It's incredibly terrible how the western authorities have lied their asses off about masks to cover up their failure to stockpile enough and/or produce enough masks for a pandemic.

Fine, they fucked up. They should ADMIT that and then ask the public for understanding, along with disseminating this informaiton. It would save lives. But instead, they just lie lie lie that masks don't work. It's disgusting. I've rarely been so disgusted by western propaganda before.

Don't get me wrong, lots of horrible stuff went down in China, but this they at least got correctly: they made it illegal to be outside without a mask, and made sure everyone got masks.

I wish we could have done that here but it's too late now.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Directions for a mask made from a t-shirt where they found measurable results with aerosol protection.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/12/6/pdfs/05-1468.pdf

[–]spamtasy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I used that study, and used the 8 layers of cross hatched gauze, and put that in the middle of this design : https://www.craftpassion.com/face-mask-sewing-pattern/. I added 4 twisted bread tie wires across the nose so you can pinch it. And they are pretty nice. I plan on making several for each one in my family, and giving them ziplocks to put moist masks in until they get home and we can launder and dry them for the next day.

[–]celfers 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Did you read the article? Please do. The table shows the surgical masks have a PE very close to 1. PE=1 means no protection.

Only the respirator type masks had any real value on their table. But those are hard to wear for long periods and you are susceptible to CO2 poisoning over long periods. Maybe only for the ones without the one-way valve but still...

The best you could say is the surgical masks are very slightly better than no protection.

[–]TheGamingJMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Is my zip up creeper hoodie good though?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

The US will have a hard time convincing people of this after lying that they don’t help. They could have just said that the doctors and nurses at the front lines need them more.

[–]dashadowmaster69420 6 points7 points  (0 children)

So gangsters are proctected??

[–]groundlessground 5 points6 points  (2 children)

So if any kind of masks are helpful why aren’t there companies manufacturing masks that aren’t surgical masks or N95s? As long as they don’t label them that way the general public can buy them and use them. I’m positive I would not be able to tie a bandanna around my face in a way that I wouldn’t constantly readjust it.

[–]WelbyReddit 15 points16 points  (1 child)

I kinda have a feeling there is some stigma to wearing one in America. Like its embarrassing. All of a sudden you are a leper( especially if you're Asian). And get the side eyes. Unless so many wear it that no one stands out.

[–]groundlessground 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Then each city should organize a wear your mask day. Everyone can wear it together and get used to it.

[–]bgharambee 5 points6 points  (15 children)

I have been posting on every post that I see about this same thing. I'm glad that the CDC has finally caught up with me, a layperson who has worked alongside, but not in the medical field for 30 years.

All you are doing is keeping your spit, cough and sneeze from hitting other people and keeping their spit, cough and sneeze from hitting you. The will do little good if you get it in your eyes though.

Guess what? You could also transmit it through oral sex because there are mucous membranes in the genitals. If someone is infected but asymptomatic, they could be having covid 19 sexy time and not even know it.

[–]ramshag 3 points4 points  (9 children)

respiratory viruses only cause issues in the respiratory tract which can be accessed through nose, mouth and eyes but not genital/anal membranes

[–]hairylunch 8 points9 points  (5 children)

That study looks to be for aerosolized spread of influenza? As far as I know, it's not clear if coronavirus spreads in aerosolized form?

[–]tusi2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, probably shouldn’t worry about it or take any precaution. It probably safer to assume coronavirus doesn’t spread in aerosol since we know everything about it. /s

[–]-CosmicSock- 11 points12 points  (3 children)

I’m not gonna put on my fake epidemiologist jacket for this, but as far as I’m aware, there is aerosolized spread of coronavirus. What you may be thinking of is airborne spread. If a virus is aerosolized it means that it is temporarily suspended in the air in small droplets of fluid. In the case of airborne spread, the virus is suspended in air on its own without being so quickly weighed down by the droplets of fluid we see in aerosolized transmission.

[–]muscletrain 1 point2 points  (1 child)

airborne is when shit really hits the fan vs aerosolized.

[–]lucy_throwaway 11 points12 points  (4 children)

CDC does not recommend masks for the general sheeple. please stop buying masks so that we can conserve them for medical workers and the elite. #illuminati

[–]Evonos 1 point2 points  (3 children)

CDC does not recommend masks for the general sheeple. please stop buying masks so that we can conserve them for medical workers and the elite. #illuminati

You can still Buy masks on Alibaba on 1-500k lots with a cost per mask of as low as 0,0022 cent...

So.. ye you can just buy them on mass still.

[–]Jaytalvapes 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying a fucking facemask from Alibaba lol.

Pre-infected!

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

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