User Panel
Quoted: Is this NV and thermal combined? View Quote Yep, fusion overlay just like the PSQ-20 or a PVS-14 with COTI attached. If the pricing turns out to be accurate, it will be the same cost as a old gen COTI and a PVS-14 setup, but all integrated into one unit with HUD, compass, video input, and better FOV and sensor. The sensor is actually slightly higher resolution than an ECOTI, but in an integrated unit at half the price. |
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Will it allow for thermal only like the PSQ-20?
Augee from TNVC has repeatedly mentioned how China is causing other companies to abandon projects. Not sure if China is beating everyone else to market based on the theft of intellectual property or what. Several weeks ago a NV dealer on another board mentioned a project about a PSQ-40 coming to market at approx $16k but subsequently said it was DOA. This same dealer recently said there is another PSQ-40 project in the works at approx $14k. The OP's mention of this Chinese PSQ-20 makes me wonder if it is related to this other announcement. If not, it leaves me wondering if it will kill the other project. |
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Quoted: Will it allow for thermal only like the PSQ-20? Augee from TNVC has repeatedly mentioned how China is causing other companies to abandon projects. Not sure if China is beating everyone else to market based on the theft of intellectual property or what. Several weeks ago a NV dealer on another board mentioned a project about a PSQ-40 coming to market at approx $16k but subsequently said it was DOA. This same dealer recently said there is another PSQ-40 project in the works at approx $14k. The OP's mention of this Chinese PSQ-20 makes me wonder if it is related to this other announcement. If not, it leaves me wondering if it will kill the other project. View Quote It has a thermal only mode, though it may only work in the sensor overlay area (you'd still see NV around the edges of the tube, but the center would be thermal only). This unit is heavily derivative of the PSQ-20, though not exactly a clone. Not quite sure what you mean that they beat others to market via copying though. PSQ-20 has been around for over 10 years, ITT just won't sell them to civilians. If American companies have waited a decade to sell fused thermal to civilians, and now want to complain that China is killing their projects...well I'm not sure how sympathetic I am to that. There have never been any laws prohibiting civilians from owning fused thermal. It's just company policy that has put their market share at 0%. Interested in the PSQ-40 project, I'm unfamiliar. Details? |
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Quoted: It has a thermal only mode, though it may only work in the sensor overlay area (you'd still see NV around the edges of the tube, but the center would be thermal only). This unit is heavily derivative of the PSQ-20, though not exactly a clone. Not quite sure what you mean that they beat others to market via copying though. PSQ-20 has been around for over 10 years, ITT just won't sell them to civilians. If American companies have waited a decade to sell fused thermal to civilians, and now want to complain that China is killing their projects...well I'm not sure how sympathetic I am to that. There have never been any laws prohibiting civilians from owning fused thermal. It's just company policy that has put their market share at 0%. Interested in the PSQ-40 project, I'm unfamiliar. Details? View Quote Word. |
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I know this is a sore issue for some, and others don't give a shit. I get the arguments on both sides which is why this is difficult for me.
On the one hand, I love free a market place, and let the best man win. But it isn't exactly a level playing field when one side just copies your shit and shoots it out with cheap labor. And then there is quasi-government policy. Much like Colt, who over-complied to stay in big gov's good graces, these companies refuse to sell their products to the rabble. And let's not forget the actual gov't policy that says you can't have FP lasers (you'll poke yer eye out, kid). So, what to do. (Question: Is there any law that says a US company cannot copy a foreign product? If not, why not turn the tables? Oh that's right, the governmental-big tech complex doesn't want you to have them.) Does anyone else see the irony here? Our biggest enemies/rivals are selling us the NV products our gov't/industry won't. Sorta like they supplied AK's around the globe (although the capitalists gotta pay for their own). So let's see here, anyone can buy the Chinese and Russian stuff (not to mention Belgian). Our gov't gives the Taliban all the gear they can take, including NV I'm sure. So who exactly are we keeping NV from? After 20+ years of war, does anyone not think these goat herders haven't sold every model of NV they got their hands on to the Russians, Chinese, and whoever? It's like we keep playing this big charade that our technology is still secure, so don't sell it to the public or export it over-seas. I think that ship sailed a long time ago. It's almost like they're just trying to keep us from getting it; imagine that. Would I buy a Chicom PSQ-whatever? Dunno. If I really needed it, and the gov-big tech won't sell me one... |
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As usual we could sit here and lay out the problems, but they really aren’t problems as we initially see them.
These problems, like the vast majority of all business and societal problems stem from one source, the government and their incompetent/purposely hurtful to America policies. I get this is the NV forum, but since the topic came up I always like to remind everyone of this. |
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Ha ha duly noted.
I did notice the color in the overlay. Do commies, I mean fraternal socialist brotherhood, show up red, and the white devils in blue? |
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Quoted: It has a thermal only mode, though it may only work in the sensor overlay area (you'd still see NV around the edges of the tube, but the center would be thermal only). This unit is heavily derivative of the PSQ-20, though not exactly a clone. Not quite sure what you mean that they beat others to market via copying though. PSQ-20 has been around for over 10 years, ITT just won't sell them to civilians. If American companies have waited a decade to sell fused thermal to civilians, and now want to complain that China is killing their projects...well I'm not sure how sympathetic I am to that. There have never been any laws prohibiting civilians from owning fused thermal. It's just company policy that has put their market share at 0%. Interested in the PSQ-40 project, I'm unfamiliar. Details? View Quote I am well aware of the PSQ-20 and an FYI they were made available for public sale toward the end of their run for around $16k. You are calling it the Chinese PSQ-20/ENVG which sounds similar to what this PSQ-40 project is looking to accomplish. The ENVG-B, ENVG III/PSQ-39 or 40 are just part of the evolution of the original PSQ-20 which upgrades the thermal sensor and NV tube with some other features and upgrades incorporated. The ENVG-B/III/PSQ-39/40 is not available to the public so some people are pursuing what was said to be an unnamed foreign company to make a PSQ-40 that can be imported and sold to civilians, again with what was said to be a projected price point of $14k. So my point is if we assume that this Chinese venture is not this other PSQ-40 project that was floated on another board the concern is it could end this others companies venture because this Chinese project would undercut it price wise. The ability of China and their willingness to bring high tech products to market and do it faster via innovation one one hand is good but not good as they are commies. If their ability and willingness to get products to market comes from innovation combined with theft that hurts the overall market. To date I am not aware of any additional info that has been dropped about this PSQ-40 venture. Perhaps more will come out during SHOT Show. Just a picture of the various ENVG over the years The ENVGIII/PSQ39/40 is on the helmet. " /> |
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Quoted: It has a thermal only mode, though it may only work in the sensor overlay area (you'd still see NV around the edges of the tube, but the center would be thermal only). This unit is heavily derivative of the PSQ-20, though not exactly a clone. Not quite sure what you mean that they beat others to market via copying though. PSQ-20 has been around for over 10 years, ITT just won't sell them to civilians. If American companies have waited a decade to sell fused thermal to civilians, and now want to complain that China is killing their projects...well I'm not sure how sympathetic I am to that. There have never been any laws prohibiting civilians from owning fused thermal. It's just company policy that has put their market share at 0%. Interested in the PSQ-40 project, I'm unfamiliar. Details? View Quote . It's just company policy that has put their market share at 0%. And there it is |
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Hard to consider the ccp an enemy when the US consumer keeps buying their products and supporting their military industry.
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Great looking potential product with a great potential price. I hate how us companies continue to treat us customers with very little regard. I will give my money to whoever will take it if they provide a solid product.
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Super cool. I have my doubts we’ll actually get these. My guess is these will be like the Jerry-C, available to everyone else except us since they don’t have to have to deal with lawsuits.
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American citizens paying to develop our enemies arms industry pisses me off.
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Anyone know a weight on this?
Does it come with the battery pack and mount? |
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Yes this is the JerryF that you may have seen referenced elsewhere on the internet. Nick Chen has videos on his IG and YouTube of it in action, looks pretty amazing.
https://youtu.be/RDLEv-EvXHc I really hope more of these get on the streets, at this price it's a pretty amazing deal. Also to the virtue signaling justice warrior snowflakes who are angry and have hurt feelings about this, keep on crying! Maybe if you cry hard enough momma will give you some warm milk |
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Quoted: American Companies refusing to sell newer advanced products to the general public pisses me off. View Quote Exactly. When there is no alternative to the Chinese made product for the normal civilian, you don’t get to cry about us buying the only option. Grey market stuff doesn’t count either. |
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Quoted: Me too but at least the likelihood their gear is used to kill Americans is much lower. View Quote Attached File |
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Quoted: As usual we could sit here and lay out the problems, but they really aren’t problems as we initially see them. These problems, like the vast majority of all business and societal problems stem from one source, the government and their incompetent/purposely hurtful to America policies. I get this is the NV forum, but since the topic came up I always like to remind everyone of this. View Quote Didn't you know, itar only applies to US civilians? Our government hands over hardware or hell, US based companies hand over or sell products to "allies." US companies can shit or get off the pot if they want to compete with/in the world market with civilian sales. Panos have been out for over a decade and they were just released within the last year to us low life civilians. "Because company policy." |
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Quoted: Didn't you know, itar only applies to US civilians? Our government hands over hardware or hell, US based companies hand over or sell products to "allies." US companies can shit or get off the pot if they want to compete with/in the world market with civilian sales. Panos have been out for over a decade and they were just released within the last year to us low life civilians. "Because company policy." View Quote This is not true. Foreign customers need permission from one or two US departments. That includes close allies. The difference is there are people in the government and industry whose job it is to shepherd those applications through the system, and they wouldn’t do that for private foreigners or for some systems, can’t. |
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Quoted: Are we going to go to war against Georgia again? And Austria? View Quote Have we ever been at war with China? Maybe in GD, but I’m talking about reality. I try to buy US made, if it’s not made here or if it’s not able to be “sold” to me. I look elsewhere. Why should I do without? So, where can I get one? |
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Quoted: Are we going to go to war against Georgia again? And Austria? View Quote We just handed over a wide spread menu of our latest tech to the tallybon. Our "secret squirrel" tech is available for sale on some deep web site right now, I'm certain of it. EVERYONE paid for that tech to get sent worldwide. Fuck any American company that is too good for me, or thinks they know what's best for me. |
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Quoted: This is not true. Foreign customers need permission from one or two US departments. That includes close allies. The difference is there are people in the government and industry whose job it is to shepherd those applications through the system, and they wouldn’t do that for private foreigners or for some systems, can’t. View Quote So you made my point without trying to make my point. I don't have anyone helping me get restricted shit meanwhile our "allies" overseas gets them because of a piece of paper. |
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Quoted: Have we ever been at war with China? Maybe in GD, but I’m talking about reality. I try to buy US made, if it’s not made here or if it’s not able to be “sold” to me. I look elsewhere. Why should I do without? So, where can I get one? View Quote We fought them openly in Korea, quietly in Vietnam and we are about to fight them again. Supporting China now is like supporting Russia in the Cold War. |
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Yes, the U.S. Night Vision consumer, who numbers less than those interested in the sport of Curling, is funding the Chinese Military, who's coming to kill us. Luckily, when that happens, you'll be able to kill *them*, with iRay and Holosun products - so I say that's a net 'Win'. Meanwhile, none of the money from the sale of iPhones, or almost every other consumer electronic, or ticket sales from NBA games, ever reaches the coffers of the PLA. I'm just glad that the Pentagon (AKA the U.S. Military) and NIH, don't pay them to develop viruses (/sarcasm) using Gain of Function, that are then used as an excuse (because the PLA sucks at making actual dangerous viruses, and instead released "Flu Lite the Already Dying Boomer Remover") by "freedom loving" politicians the world over, to destroy their respective countries. In case you've been asleep for two years, the U.S. Government at all levels (Local, State, National) in most States (God bless Ron Desantis, Amen) is a bigger enemy to the principles this country was founded on, than any foreign country. Meanwhile, U.S. Companies on the Fed dole, chasing that "government contract dollar", mark products up 500% - which means the U.S. Civilian consumer must also pay that - shut up and eat your peas. If you believe in Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, you should be chomping at the bit to re-invade most of Europe, as well as Australia, New Zealand, California, and New York City. Be sure to buy Black Rifle Coffee stock when the IPO drops.
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Let's take a look at flir as an example of we hate our non government consumers. I'd welcome any product including Chinese over them at this point.
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Who am I supporting again? The feds are openly selling me out, and laughing about it.
I may as well laugh too. So, when and where will these be available? |
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All 2-300 of these that US civilians will buy (if they become available) will surely fund the hoard. buy 'Merican. |
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Brother Mick nailed it for anyone willing to wake the fuck up and smell the (non-black rifle) coffee.
The biggest threat to most folks right now is internal. You are the cash cow to the Chinese. Wrapping yourself in the flag and talking about what's legal is a fucking joke at this point. So again, what to do. Get whatever you need, from whoever you can get it from. Train hard. Protect your own. Everything else is supplemental. |
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Has any of the NV industry people on the board put hands on one of these?
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Quoted: I know this is a sore issue for some, and others don't give a shit. I get the arguments on both sides which is why this is difficult for me. On the one hand, I love free a market place, and let the best man win. But it isn't exactly a level playing field when one side just copies your shit and shoots it out with cheap labor. And then there is quasi-government policy. Much like Colt, who over-complied to stay in big gov's good graces, these companies refuse to sell their products to the rabble. And let's not forget the actual gov't policy that says you can't have FP lasers (you'll poke yer eye out, kid). So, what to do. (Question: Is there any law that says a US company cannot copy a foreign product? If not, why not turn the tables? Oh that's right, the governmental-big tech complex doesn't want you to have them.) Does anyone else see the irony here? Our biggest enemies/rivals are selling us the NV products our gov't/industry won't. Sorta like they supplied AK's around the globe (although the capitalists gotta pay for their own). So let's see here, anyone can buy the Chinese and Russian stuff (not to mention Belgian). Our gov't gives the Taliban all the gear they can take, including NV I'm sure. So who exactly are we keeping NV from? After 20+ years of war, does anyone not think these goat herders haven't sold every model of NV they got their hands on to the Russians, Chinese, and whoever? It's like we keep playing this big charade that our technology is still secure, so don't sell it to the public or export it over-seas. I think that ship sailed a long time ago. It's almost like they're just trying to keep us from getting it; imagine that. Would I buy a Chicom PSQ-whatever? Dunno. If I really needed it, and the gov-big tech won't sell me one... View Quote It's called MIC-BITCH (McBITCH) syndrome. Military Industrial Complex- BITCH "We will do anything you ask ,when you ask and to what ever extent as well as restrict sales to civilians if you give us a contract and buy our shit ." That attitude goes beyond normal non-classified stuff. Too much big money to be made off the tax payer. I can remember in the late 80s early 90s a certain German gun manufacture was like that after a British Aerospace Co bought them. Killed every commercial product in their line up. When uncle failed to come through on a contract it was back to an attempt to create a civilian commercial market base again with a new model pistol coming out about every 6 months trying to hit the mark. You know when Co.s have no candidates in the arms contract market because they flip flop back to commercial sales like clock work. Civilian sales to some Co.s are beneath them. Uber tactical elitist. I think it makes them feel "special" while over compensating for other short comings dealing with the other syndrome known as WD (Whisky Delta). I don't make the rules, free markets in this country are supposed to work both ways. Your point is spot on. Now that Xi-JOE left billions of dollars in high tech gear floating around in the STAN no telling what ChInA copy will be available next fall over the counter. |
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Honestly this looks pretty good for the price point they're claiming. The resolution on the thermal sensor looks leagues better than the older PSQ-20 in a similar sized package.
Curious to see what the final specs are if/when these come to market and how they addressed the power source. |
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I'm for reals not interested in getting into an argument about whether or not anyone should buy Chinese goods, so I'm not going to engage any comments or responses that try to draw me into it.
Suffice to say, while I may have my own personal feelings and beliefs, intellectually I understand both sides. I do want to throw out some facts for context, however. - Certain systems that are borne out of directed government requirements are partially "owned" by the government, in and that they require DoD approval to be sold commercially. If it has a funky acronym as a program of record name, chances are it's one of them. The GPNVG required direct government approval to be openly and freely sold commercially. Agree, disagree, like it, don't like it, this is the way it is, and it can be an involved process. Do we like having to jump through all these hoops to bring products to market? Fuck no. But if that's what needs to be done, that's what we've done and will continue to do to get the best products and capabilities to market. - The companies I've mentioned in the past that have abandoned projects because of possible Chinese follow-on products are not the same major manufacturers most of you are thinking of--I'm not saying that those companies haven't, but if they have, I have not been privy to those conversations. I'm talking about companies who are very much in favor of selling product commercially to anyone that has the money, not products intended for military contracts. Logically, that doesn't make sense--if you're building for a military contract, why would you care if the Chinese knock it off? DoD or USGOV is not going to buy a Chinese product, so you'll make your money back regardless. - I have been involved in the export and fielding of night vision equipment from both the government side and the industry side, though it is not a major part of TNVC's business as it is with many other companies. Capabilities are not "willy nilly" given, even to close allies, much less the Afghans. I was involved in these fieldings in the very early days. I have my feelings about all that too, however I can assure you that the thousands of AN/PVS-7B/Ds and beat up AN/PEQ-2As we gave to the ANDSF are not how China is making a knock-off ENVG. See above about DoD approval for certain systems--China getting their hands on ENVGs is primarily a result of either: willful ITAR violations of gray market products and/or obtaining equipment from dead/injured U.S. and allied service members. We know this to be the case because these things have been the subject of investigations and in some cases prosecutions. - Finally, no one is "worried" about the Chinese or anyone else having the technology to merge thermal with image intensifiers. The reason that most fusion systems are so tightly controlled is because of the C4ISR and augmented reality and networking features that are integrated into them. Most of these features are opaque to commercial end users because they don't have access to the networking infrastructure that DoD has. Hell, in some cases they're even opaque to Joe on the ground, because the '6 section can't unfuck the COMSEC and properly configure the networks and their commanders don't give a shit enough to figure out how to use it all. The Chinese government, on the other hand, does have the capacity to examine and evaluate this technology and work to counter or defeat it. Again, I'm not trying to get into an argument or debate about this stuff. I'm just adding some points for context based on some incorrect assumptions that I've read in this thread. I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, and I probably won't reply in this thread again unless there is more real information or clarification I can add. ~Augee |
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