Author Topic: We need a GCW Zero 2 (Read 15516 times)

davidgilmour · « **on:** July 05, 2017, 09:23:03 am »

With a better 4:3 screen
D pad just like the PS Vita
Better buttons
And a 2ghz or 3ghz processor to play the more recent arcade games.
Willing to pay $200.

SONY · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2017, 09:58:19 am »

D-pad needs to be the same as the SEGA Saturn's one.

Excalibur · « **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2017, 12:48:54 pm »

The better 4:3 screen is already out there. Ask @com64

As for the buttons/d-pad, check out the GCW-Zero Shapeways Store. It's not like the SEGA Saturn, but rumor has it's a lot better than the stock GCW Zero D-Pad.

In theory, you could 3D-Print your own shell modified to use a SS-Style D-Pad.

Excalibur · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2017, 12:55:34 pm »

For what it's worth, my dream GCW-Zero would have a nice crisp backlit screen like the GPD and a MAME Emulator that will support both old and new ROMs (right now you're SOL with probably 80% of NeoGeo and MAME/FBA Games). The SEGA Saturn-style D-PAD is an interesting feature, though. Playing SEGA Games can be challenging because SEGA had ABC XYZ Buttons (some Arcade games had them too).

Surkow · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2017, 01:54:08 pm »

At most you can expect a move from the Ingenic JZ4770 SoC to the Ingenic JZ4780. It will double the number of CPU cores and the CPU cache size. Therefore the difference will be minimal and might only affect applications which use threading or multi-processing. Sadly enough the JZ4780 uses a PowerVR instead of a Vivante GPU - which means switching from open source to closed source drivers. Running bleeding edge kernels will be a thing of the past.

To reiterate what makes the GCW Zero a proper (spiritial) successor to the Dingoo A320 is using a compatible CPU architecture. If you are going to suggest switching to ARM we will lose a big chunk of the motivated developers and some of the existing software is not compatible with ARM. It'll result in an arms race (no pun intended) and you'll have to release a new device every few years because ARM compatible phones and other devices will keep ramping up their efforts for less money. This is something the majority of the new users on these forums fail to grasp.

Alternatively we could wait for the MIPS Warrior series (delayed since 2014), but the change might alienate some of the low level developers preferring the current MIPS architecture.

zhongtiao1 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2017, 01:16:34 am »

Quote from: Surkow on July 05, 2017, 01:54:08 pm

At most you can expect a move from the Ingenic JZ4770 SoC to the Ingenic JZ4780. It will double the number of CPU cores and the CPU cache size. Therefore the difference will be minimal and might only affect applications which use threading or multi-processing. Sadly enough the JZ4780 uses a PowerVR instead of a Vivante GPU - which means switching from open source to closed source drivers. Running bleeding edge kernels will be a thing of the past.

To reiterate what makes the GCW Zero a proper (spiritial) successor to the Dingoo A320 is using a compatible CPU architecture. If you are going to suggest switching to ARM we will lose a big chunk of the motivated developers and some of the existing software is not compatible with ARM. It'll result in an arms race (no pun intended) and you'll have to release a new device every few years because ARM compatible phones and other devices will keep ramping up their efforts for less money. This is something the majority of the new users on these forums fail to grasp.

Alternatively we could wait for the MIPS Warrior series (delayed since 2014), but the change might alienate some of the low level developers preferring the current MIPS architecture.

Or... We could go all out, be rebels and use the sparc64 architecture

There would be no other console like it

Sent from my Q5 using Tapatalk 2

davidgilmour · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2017, 12:20:05 pm »

Quote from: Surkow on July 05, 2017, 01:54:08 pm

At most you can expect a move from the Ingenic JZ4770 SoC to the Ingenic JZ4780. It will double the number of CPU cores and the CPU cache size. Therefore the difference will be minimal and might only affect applications which use threading or multi-processing. Sadly enough the JZ4780 uses a PowerVR instead of a Vivante GPU - which means switching from open source to closed source drivers. Running bleeding edge kernels will be a thing of the past.

To reiterate what makes the GCW Zero a proper (spiritial) successor to the Dingoo A320 is using a compatible CPU architecture. If you are going to suggest switching to ARM we will lose a big chunk of the motivated developers and some of the existing software is not compatible with ARM. It'll result in an arms race (no pun intended) and you'll have to release a new device every few years because ARM compatible phones and other devices will keep ramping up their efforts for less money. This is something the majority of the new users on these forums fail to grasp.

Alternatively we could wait for the MIPS Warrior series (delayed since 2014), but the change might alienate some of the low level developers preferring the current MIPS architecture.

Well , we could also use Android? I am not that fund of Android because bluetooth will cause a delay but with a built-in controller, Android could be an option?

Surkow · « **Reply #7 on:** August 03, 2017, 01:00:11 pm »

Quote from: davidgilmour on August 03, 2017, 12:20:05 pm

Well , we could also use Android? I am not that fund of Android because bluetooth will cause a delay but with a built-in controller, Android could be an option?

Android on MIPS? That's not going to end well. The majority of the software on the Google Play store targets ARM based devices.

Plus even if we ignore the architecture, Android won't solve any of the other issues. We won't gain any extra developers because the majority of the Android community consists of end-users and not low level developers. Making custom roms and side loading APK files isn't comparable to writing drivers or emulators. We'd also be competing in a saturated market where devices exist which are way more affordable than some niche hardware project.

davidgilmour · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2017, 12:44:50 am »

Quote from: Surkow on August 03, 2017, 01:00:11 pm

Quote from: davidgilmour on August 03, 2017, 12:20:05 pm
Well , we could also use Android? I am not that fund of Android because bluetooth will cause a delay but with a built-in controller, Android could be an option?
Android on MIPS? That's not going to end well. The majority of the software on the Google Play store targets ARM based devices.

Plus even if we ignore the architecture, Android won't solve any of the other issues. We won't gain any extra developers because the majority of the Android community consists of end-users and not low level developers. Making custom roms and side loading APK files isn't comparable to writing drivers or emulators. We'd also be competing in a saturated market where devices exist which are way more affordable than some niche hardware project.

So basically you are saying that there won't be a handheld with
5 inch
Low resolution
4:3 oled screen
2.5+ ghz processor
Open source ?

We wilk have to do it with our beloved 1ghz GCW? That is a bit sad, isn't it? So many newer games that won't play on it.

gameblabla · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2017, 01:12:53 am »

Android on MIPS will not look so bad.
We still get the many Game Maker studios out there (they have MIPS libs built-in), plus the Java-only games and some open-source apps. (like Firefox and some games)
That alone is more than what the GCW-Zero currently has.

Unfortunately, there won't be another GCW-Zero with better specs due to ARM manufacturers being hostile to open-source by not making their drivers open-source.
You'll be lucky if your device supports U-Boots with 2D acceleration.

The only open-source boards are out there are the MIPS ones, the Tegra dev boards and the Raspberry Pi if we dont count the firmware.

We could make our own GCW-Zero 2 using raspberry pi 3s and Gmenu2x :DDDDD

com64 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2017, 08:07:38 pm »

inb4 MIPS and ARM co-processors on the same board. Might as well throw in an extra pentium D, too.

sadgasm · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2017, 01:08:17 am »

Quote from: gameblabla on August 04, 2017, 01:12:53 am

We could make our own GCW-Zero 2 using raspberry pi 3s and Gmenu2x :DDDDD

I think this will be the future for alternative handhelds besides Android. At the moment all the kits and tutorials really look crappy or are just boards and spare shells of offiicials handhelds and not that good as a bought handheld would look (1, 2, 3...).
Just as their now finally good looking gaming inspired Pi 3 cases are being released ([ur=https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yikeshu-Retroflag-NESPi-Raspberry-Model/dp/B073ZDF8QXl]1[/url], thanks to the success of the NES Classic Mini), I really hope that in the near future we will see high quality kits which will make a handheld out of the Pi zero with the looks and built quality of the Revo K101, the GCW Zero...

Ryvan · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2017, 09:44:37 pm »

It might be worth checking out the Freeplay Zero (formerly known as GamePie Advance?)

https://gamepieadvance.com/
https://www.freeplaytech.com/

This was the kickstarter from awhile ago (early 2017? not sure myself):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1227007236/freeplay-zero-freeplay-cm3-by-freeplaytech

The basic idea I believe was a Raspberry Pi Zero based gaming device with a Game Boy Advance (GBA) form factor. Not so very different than the GCW Zero, but a little less ambitious in the sense of building on an already well established product.

https://www.freeplaytech.com/product/freeplay-zero-diy-kit/

More the like the GCW Zero specs as is, but a compute module version of the Pi 3 would probably work well in a similar arrangement.

Honestly I kinda like having a more unique console that isn't just a Pi shell/case but it's easy to see the potential there.

P.S.
Be pretty neat if you used the Zero W and got wifi in the bargain.

To be fair to the other products, like the Adafruit PiGRRL2, they are aiming to be emulation platforms for the system they are inspired by NOT a next gen DIY gaming platform.

Thenesis · « **Reply #13 on:** October 29, 2017, 01:11:15 pm »

Great news !

I don't think that the GCW will evolve much because there is too few people taking care of the hardware and drivers issues. So like many people I was thinking about building my own device from a Raspberry Pi Zero W. But I'm happy that some people have already done it, I'm more software than hardware.

Some time ago I read the specs and The Raspberry Pi Zero W is much better for a handheld than the Raspberry 3. It is much smaller and use much less power (by much less I mean several times). I don't care about a high performance handheld which is big or lasts less than 5 hours. So the Raspberry Pi Zero W should fit perfectly for me.

I love the GCW but the Raspberry Pi devices have a huge community behind them (with both individuals and companies giving their contributions). Also it is even easier to build software for Raspberry than GCW: I just compile and debug from the Raspberry Zero itself, using my usual IDE from the Debian desktop. The performance are significantly higher too: it's maybe only due to the current GCW 3D drivers but the Raspberry Pi Zero is more than 2 times faster in Quake 1 and Quake 2 with MSAA in 480p, and the GCW does not handle well OpenGL ES 2 (crashes and hangs in the drivers) and has rendering bugs in OpenGL ES 1. OpenGL ES 2 rendering with the Raspberry Pi Zero works quite well !

So I'm sure to buy one when it's available. Thank you for the info !

fidelis1 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 29, 2017, 04:44:34 pm »

Quote from: Ryvan on October 28, 2017, 09:44:37 pm

It might be worth checking out the Freeplay Zero (formerly known as GamePie Advance?)

https://gamepieadvance.com/
https://www.freeplaytech.com/

This was the kickstarter from awhile ago (early 2017? not sure myself):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1227007236/freeplay-zero-freeplay-cm3-by-freeplaytech

The basic idea I believe was a Raspberry Pi Zero based gaming device with a Game Boy Advance (GBA) form factor. Not so very different than the GCW Zero, but a little less ambitious in the sense of building on an already well established product.

https://www.freeplaytech.com/product/freeplay-zero-diy-kit/

More the like the GCW Zero specs as is, but a compute module version of the Pi 3 would probably work well in a similar arrangement.

Honestly I kinda like having a more unique console that isn't just a Pi shell/case but it's easy to see the potential there.

P.S.
Be pretty neat if you used the Zero W and got wifi in the bargain.

To be fair to the other products, like the Adafruit PiGRRL2, they are aiming to be emulation platforms for the system they are inspired by NOT a next gen DIY gaming platform.

That's really cool! I have a Raspberry Pi 3 lying around that I'm not using so I'll definitely look into buying the CM3 version when it comes out. The only downside seems to be that it does not have an analog stick like the GCW Zero.

Ryvan · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2017, 01:19:46 am »

I suspect that you might be able to mod one in, but I have no idea what software hurdles might be an issue.

Here's a part you could use:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9426

slaanesh · « **Reply #16 on:** November 02, 2017, 02:59:38 am »

To be honest I think the GCW-Zero still has a bucket of life left it.

Having said that if it were to get an improvement I would be "all in".

My idea would be to keep any improvements simple - evolutionary rather than revolutionary:

- update to more robust controls
- speed bump the CPU to 1.5Ghz
- 640x480 screen (which could be backwards compatible with 320x240 software by just using the IPU to scale)

That's it!

Having a smaller number of changes would make it much easier to implement than having to do everything from scratch.

Must more likely to be successful.

eltehero · « **Reply #17 on:** November 02, 2017, 01:06:46 pm »

Quote from: slaanesh on November 02, 2017, 02:59:38 am

To be honest I think the GCW-Zero still has a bucket of life left it.

Shame that emulator development has really slowed down since last year. Only your mame and Playstation are being updated.

onthebridge · « **Reply #18 on:** November 02, 2017, 03:45:46 pm »

Take a look at this gadget, it has the potential to be gcw zero software compatible for 40 dollars. It is not as powerful though but for the price ...
https://boards.dingoonity.org/index.php?topic=12130.msg170683.msg#170683

Enviado desde mi MI 5 mediante Tapatalk

Thenesis · « **Reply #19 on:** November 05, 2017, 03:35:22 am »

Quote from: slaanesh on November 02, 2017, 02:59:38 am

To be honest I think the GCW-Zero still has a bucket of life left it.

I hope so. Always switching to the latest device doesn't help release quality.

Quote from: slaanesh on November 02, 2017, 02:59:38 am

Having a smaller number of changes would make it much easier to implement than having to do everything from scratch.

Must more likely to be successful.

I agree but for me, a fully functional device would be perfect. I don't need hardware improvements, that just drains more energy. The current hardware is theoretically not much less powerful than the 3DS, but the current drivers doesn't make it possible to fully use its capabilities.

I know that for emulation of some more recent platforms, a strong CPU is needed. In this case forget the Ingenic JZ47XX CPUs, they are very good for energy consumption, but they are very weak compared to an ARM Cortex A9. But well used they are still very nice, at least for my needs.

Author Topic: We need a GCW Zero 2 (Read 15516 times)

davidgilmour (OP)

davidgilmour (OP)

davidgilmour (OP)