A Classic Case Of Too Little Too Late
When Frank Vance retired from blogging, he turned over to me his list of contacts. Some of those contacts are Ligonier “insiders.”
Those sources recently told me that some prominent ministry leaders, including John MacArthur, have attempted to have some behind-the-scenes dialogue with RC Sproul, urging him to take responsibility for the incompetence and duplicity of his senior management, particularly over the Ligonier Ministries vs. Frank Vance lawsuit. For many months RC Sproul has been hiding behind his senior management, and for months some of his closest personal ministry friends have urged him to quit you like a man.
John MacArthur went on the record a long time ago about the folly of Christians suing Christians and, apparently, he still takes what he’s said about it seriously enough to confront his friend RC Sproul about it. However, in spite of the good counsel he’s received, RC Sproul has been slow and reluctant to do much of anything.
Now RC Sproul has decided to do something, but what he’s done can only be described as too little too late.
On July 23, RC Sproul, as Chairman of the Ligonier Ministries Board Of Directors, met with fellow Board members, including his wife Vesta Sproul, to discuss crisis management and damage control.
The past year has been a difficult one for Ligonier Ministries, and as is so often the case, when a company’s bottom line suffers, someone has to pay for it. The sacrificial lamb is Ligonier’s President/CEO/CFO, Timothy A. Dick. On July 24 Timothy A. Dick was relieved from his position as Ligonier’s top exec. An official announcement from Ligonier Ministries is expected soon.
However, no one should be surprised if Ligonier never makes an announcement about Tim Dick at all. No doubt it would be better for Ligonier, and for RC Sproul in particular, if the memory of Tim Dick quickly faded into obscurity. Everything about The Dick has been a colossal embarrassment to RC Sproul, and it could very well be that even just announcing The Dick’s firing would only bring further embarrassment.
It has yet to be determined if Tim Dick will remain on in any capacity at all at Ligonier. If Tim is offered any other Ligonier position at all, even stockroom boy, he’d probably have to take it, since he’s unlikely to be able to obtain employment anywhere else.
From all accounts, Tim Dick was an utter failure in business, prior to being hired by his father-in-law, RC Sproul. Tim Dick never had any business or ministerial credentials of any kind that could have qualified him to do anything at Ligonier (other than perhaps mail-room boy), let alone be Ligonier’s top executive. Clearly, there is only one reason why Tim Dick was ever appointed as Ligonier’s top executive — he married RC’s daughter, Sherrie Sproul. Needless to say, this calls into question RC Sproul’s own judgment. Regardless of family connections, why would RC Sproul appoint such a profoundly inept and unethical man to such an important position?
Just because Tim Dick has lost the position of top exec doesn’t mean that nepotism is still not alive and well at Ligonier. More than likely, a new position will be created especially for Tim, where he can continue to receive a lavish salary for doing what he’s always done — nothing. Since it wouldn’t look right to pay a stockroom boy a $200,000 plus salary, Tim will likely be given a corner office in the back of the building, along with some kind meaningless position with no authority of any kind, so that he can’t cause Ligonier any further injury. He’ll probably be given some kind of nondescript title. The door of his office might soon say something like, “Assistant Executive Vice President of Ancillary Protuberances”.
I haven’t heard yet what is to become of Ryan “Partyboy” Dick. Even though he too has proven to be a major embarrassment to Ligonier Ministries (like goldbrick father, like goldbrick son), grandpa still has a tender spot in his heart for Ryan Sproul-Dick. Just like his daddy, Ryan wouldn’t be capable of finding employment that would pay him anywhere near the generous paycheck he’s come to enjoy, let alone permit him to come in hours late to work each day, just to sleep on his desk. So Ryan is likely to remain on at Ligonier for years to come, drawing a generous donor-funded salary and benefits package, in order to fuel his reprobate lifestyle. Ryan also continues to believe that one day he shall “inherit” Ligonier Ministries.
Tim Dick’s termination as President isn’t likely to affect the employment arrangements of any Dick family members. Sherrie will remain on at Ligonier, as will Tim and Sherrie’s children, Ryan and Kaki, as well as Kaki’s husband, John Cobb. The only thing that will change is that Tim Dick will no longer be President. However, the nepotistic practices will continue unaltered, all with RC Sproul’s blessing. As Frank Vance noted several times, the combined annual Ligonier compensation for the Sproul-Dick families exceeds one-million dollars, and that’s not likely to diminish much, if any, even if Tim Dick is no longer President.
Also left unaltered are the Dick family’s living arrangements. They will continue living in the gated-community manor of RC Sproul. Tim moved into the Sproul home shortly after marrying Sherrie Sproul twenty-plus years ago, and he’s been goldbricking it there ever since. He’s also raised his three children there. Tim is the goldbrick among goldbricks. From all accounts, even when he does “work” at Ligonier, he only makes an appearance for about three hours a day. Much of the rest of his day is spent sleeping at home. When Tim is not sleeping he spends much of his time online, posting weird comments all over the internet. For a man who has been paid a lavish $230K salary, plus a generous benefits package, he hasn’t done a thing to earn it. This is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of how Ligonier donors have seen their support funds squandered.
The expectation is that the Ligonier board will announce Tim Dick’s departure was due to health considerations. True, Tim Dick does have health problems. That’s to be expected with anyone who has to lug around over 400 pounds of flab. However, Tim Dick had serious health problems long before RC Sproul promoted Tim to President. Tim Dick’s promotion to Ligonier’s senior executive was obviously in no way hampered by his preexisting health considerations, and his removal wasn’t necessitated by health considerations either.
If Ligonier attempts to use Tim’s health problems as a cover story for his removal, as I suspect they will, that’s all it will be, a cover story. Furthermore, if Ligonier puts out a story that Tim Dick resigned, rather than they terminated him, that will be just another cover story. Regardless of how they spin the announcement, no one should expect it to be the straight story.
The truth is that Tim Dick has been an immense liability to Ligonier Ministries, ever since RC Sproul appointed him to be President in November 2004. From all accounts, Tim Dick’s public relations, interpersonal relations, and business management skills are abysmal, not to mention his grievous ethical problems. Tim Dick has cost Ligonier dearly. Because of Tim Dick’s reckless and unethical actions, Ligonier suddenly experienced a dramatic loss in donor support.
Tim Dick is also responsible for personally ruining the lives of many godly men and women who had labored selflessly and sacrificially for Ligonier Ministries for many years. In order to make room for his own family members, The Dick fired multiple godly and gifted Ligonier employees who were vastly more qualified for the positions than those he replaced them with. In one case, a person that he fired had to be replaced with four new employees, in order to accomplish the same work load that that one employee had been doing for over a decade. The Dick also fired a dozen long-term employees, due to “budget shortfalls,” immediately after he squandered $8 million in 2005 on “the Ligonier mansion.”
The Dick celebrated this truly spectacular profligacy, on a property that sits vacant to this very day, by immediately going out and buying himself a new Lexus. Needless to say, all those fired Ligonier employees weren’t impressed with The Dick’s expensive new car. For such squandering of donor funds Ligonier Ministries received a Free Good News “Hall of Financial Fame and Shame Award.”
RC Sproul stood by and watched it all happen, never once intervening to prevent the unrighteous firings of those who had presumed that RC was a just and godly man. Under Tim Dick’s leadership, employee morale at Ligonier has reached an all-time low.
Tim Dick’s single greatest public relations disaster was his suing Christian blogger Frank Vance. Frank had written a great deal about the duplicities of Tim Dick, including his story that Tricky Dick orchestrated the theft by deception of Don Kistler’s Soli Deo Gloria Ministries. Tim Dick and Ligonier Ministries sued Frank Vance for Defamation for, among other things, calling Tim Dick a “nincompoop”.
The lawsuit completely backfired on Ligonier. But rather than admitting how wrong they had been to sue a brother in Christ, they covered up the lawsuit, including with members of even their own Board Of Directors. Not only was Tim Dick at the center of the lies and cover ups, senior manager John Duncan (brother and rap-artist homeboy to Ligon Duncan) also directly participated in and aided and abetted the lies. Ligonier Ministries employees were instructed by Ligonier “senior management” to lie to callers. Ligonier Ministries and its senior management lied, and lied and lied again. Rather than just acknowledging to their donors and supporters that they’d sinned, they fabricated one cock-and-bull story after another. A recap of those events can be found here.
The fact that Ligonier Ministries ultimately got rid of Don Kistler only served to confirm what Frank had been saying all along. Ligonier Ministries “acquired” Soli Deo Gloria Ministries by deception, and when Kistler no longer served a useful purpose to them, they discarded him, and this only a matter of weeks after he’d suffered a serious stroke, no doubt brought on in part by the massive stress he’d been put under by having to work in such egregious circumstances.
The removal of Tim Dick as Ligonier’s President will do little to nothing to salvage Ligonier’s badly tarnished image, especially since it took months for RC Sproul to get around to doing it. Given what an asset that Ligonier had been for so many years to the promotion of Reformed theology, this is all a great tragedy, and one from which Ligonier may never recover.
That will especially be true if all that is done is to replace one unethical man for another unethical man. For example, there has been a great deal of speculation that John Duncan, Ligonier’s Executive Producer, will succeed Tim Dick as President. John Duncan is brother to Mel Duncan, who serves as Ligonier’s Director Of Church Relations. The two Duncans are also brothers to J. Ligon Duncan, pastor of First Presbyterian Church of Jackson, Mississippi, and a regular speaker at Ligonier conferences.
If John Duncan does in fact succeed Tim Dick, it’s not likely to help Ligonier’s credibility one bit, especially since John Duncan aided and abetted Tim Dick’s lies and cover ups. John Duncan also made at least as many bizarre appearances on the internet as Tim Dick did, posting irrational comments here on Ministry Watchman, and numerous other blogs, as “Passerby,” and under other aliases.
Another possibility could be that J. Ligon Duncan may be asked to take over as Ligonier’s President. Frank Vance discovered months ago that Ligon Duncan is RC Sproul’s hand-picked successor. What this may mean is that when RC Sproul passes on, Ligon Duncan will take over as head minister and Chairman of the Board of Directors of Ligonier Ministries. However, until that happens, Ligon Duncan may be asked to step in as Ligonier’s President. From all accounts, Rev. Ligon Duncan is a very gifted and competent man. No doubt he would be imminently better qualified than Goldbrick Dick. However, it remains to be seen if his ethics are any better than his brother, John Duncan.
Regardless of any shuffling of positions, what really needs to happen is for RC Sproul to do what his friend John MacArthur has apparently been urging him to do — repent and accept responsibility.
44 comments
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July 30th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
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July 30th, 2007 at 7:54 am
Brandon Giromini
I wonder if Ligonier will try to revamp their image with a new President who will try to win back the donors who left or if it will be business as usual. I mean most of the Christian blogosphere just ignored the lying anyways and continued funding the ministry. Will we be hearing for ER (Exercising Restraint) anytime soon?
(P.S. Hi John!)
July 30th, 2007 at 8:08 am
Jen
I am very sad to see that Ligonier had to be brought so low before they decided to do the right thing by letting Tim Dick go. I fought long and hard for this as well by writing many articles urging Ligonier to get their orthopraxy lined up with Scripture. I think it is fully necessary to fire Tim Dick, but since I’m not one for speculation, I shall be content to wait and see what becomes of him.
As far as nepotism goes, I personally think it’s great when family works together — as long as they are qualified for the job. I don’t know about the rest of the family members, but it does seem that Ryan is a little less than motivated to fulfill the responsibilities he has been afforded. Is he still working there? Or was that just an assumption?
I do have some grave concerns about John Duncan and I wrote about them as well. Maybe his brother would actually be an asset for Ligonier. I truly would love to see them do well again one day. If RC would publicly repent over this whole ordeal, that would put a lot of capital in his bank account for me. I’ll keep praying, as I have every day already.
Watchman, I noticed that you used “The Dick” several times throughout the story. Was there a specific purpose for that, or was that term meant to express your frustration with the whole situation, as it appears the “Goldbrick” term does as well?
Thanks for keeping us informed; I shall be on the lookout for the public announcement from Ligonier. I hope it will be one worth praising them for.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Watchman
“I mean most of the Christian blogosphere just ignored the lying anyways and continued funding the ministry.”
Brandon, Frank’s sources repeatedly confirmed to him the Ligonier Ministries vs. Frank Vance lawsuit cost them dearly. They lost many, many donors and supporters over it.
As far as the blogosphere goes, certainly Frank came under attack by several bloggers, especially Tim Challies; but if you followed their arguments you saw that they seldom ever made their case. Most of them engaged in allegations rooted in ignorance of the case (often willful ignorance), and many also engaged in logical fallacies which other commenters on those blogs quickly eviscerated. It was funny to see how many of those anti-Frank articles had their comment threads closed, not to mention all the pro-Frank comments that were deleted. Seldom did we see any of the pro-Ligonier blog articles engage in an open and honest debate.
Aside from all that, there were also far more blog articles that were critical of Ligonier than positive about the way they handled their lawsuit against Frank.
My sources tell me that Ligonier has struggled to rebuild their support base. Had RC Sproul been decisive and stepped in months ago to terminate Tim Dick, they likely would have by this point found themselves in much better fiscal shape. As I say, it’s probably now too little too late.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:35 am
Watchman
Jen,
Your perceptions are correct. I’m very frustrated. I saw the amount of time that Frank devoted to his articles. In the end he was very disappointed, not in Tim Dick, but in RC Sproul. Dr. Sproul should have taken decisive action about Tim Dick many months ago, especially over the defrauding of Don Kistler. My sources tell me that Kistler went to Sproul almost immediately after discovering what had been done to him. He repeatedly turned a deaf ear to Dr. Kistler’s pleas. Up until that time Don Kistler had assumed that RC Sproul was one of his best friends. Can you imagine just how utterly disillusioned Don Kistler must be today?
For a long time Frank had assumed that the problem was Tim Dick. In the end he came to see that the real problem is RC Sproul. For those of us who have come to recognize this, and who have held RC Sproul in such high esteem, we can’t help but be disillusioned over it.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:43 am
Morgan Farmer
Just because people hold themselves out to be christians does not mean that they know how to conduct themselves in a christian, etchical manner in the business world.
Hiring family members is perhaps one of the most dangerous things a business owner can do. Up front and first..the business owner has to clarfiy what is expected and how the employee (family member) is to conduct themselves while a part of the business entity.
More often than not…in minstry environments…one sees where good business rules are not even implemented to ensure the viability of the entity. Christians are some of the worst business people I have ever known.
In all of my business dealings with christians and heathens alike…all are treated the same and all understand:
LOVE IS LOVE…BUSINESS IS BUSINESS
I can just imagine the public uproar if Ligionier were a publicly traded company.
They should be ashamed of themselves. RC Sr. should be ashamed of himself for his lack of leadership and backbone.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:45 am
Lynn
Watchman:
“In the end he was very disappointed, not in Tim Dick, but in RC Sproul.”
Here is what Frank originally said when the lawsuit broke:
http://vancetribe.blogspot.com.....vance.html
“Formless, the dispute isn’t with RC Sproul, it’s with Tim Dick. I’d agree that RC is ultimately responsible since he appointed Dick as President/CEO/CFO (that’s a lot of unchecked power in one guy’s hands!). The problem is that since RC’s stroke (which was rather serious as I understand it) RC doesn’t have much to do with Ligonier anymore.”
Can anybody tell me if Sproul Sr. is still being severely affected by his stroke? How much time elapsed between the onset of the stroke and the contract with Kistler and the lawsuit?
July 30th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Mark Epstein
Watchman,
First, allow me to publicly praise John MacArthur for privately confronting his brother in Christ, as outlined in Matthew 18. Although we may never know when John MacArthur first began speaking with RC Sproul, Sr., it would appear John MacArthur cares deeply for the body of Christ.
Secondly, now that Tim Dick is gone, it may be time to begin telling the story of how Tim Dick came to know so much personal information about Jennifer and me. As you noted, Tim was very busy posting comments throughout the blogosphere; however, he did find time to write me a personal email concerning what he knew about Jen and me. Interestingly enough, he provided just enough information to pin point the source and, although this source vehemently denies providing certain information (e.g., legal advice), the source has not denied providing personal information about the Epsteins to Tim Dick and Ligonier Ministries. In just about all Christian circles this is known as gossip.
Lastly, I join Jennifer in asking (once again) that RC Sproul, Sr. publicly take overall responsibility for the Ligonier v. Vance lawsuit, publicly repudiate the action, and publicly repent. It’s an interesting thing about Americans — not only do we love our “heroes,” but we love our underdogs as well. Dr. Sproul would not only regain a great number of donors to Ligonier by humbling himself, but the word of mouth and contemporary blogosphere would spread the story very quickly, and I think Ligonier could gain supporters over and above what the ministry originally lost because of Tim Dick’s recklessness.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:24 am
Friend of the family
“Can anybody tell me if Sproul Sr. is still being severely affected by his stroke? How much time elapsed between the onset of the stroke and the contract with Kistler and the lawsuit?”
R.C. had a stroke in early 2004, and he may have had a couple more since then that weren’t as serious. He’s had some problems with dizziness and vertigo. His doctors estimate that he’s lost about 30% of his mental faculties. He’s also lost a lot of energy. His stamina is way off. R.C. isn’t producing much of anything new these days, and his health is the reason why.
The Soli Deo Gloria acquisition happened something like six months after R.C.’s stroke. I don’t think he knew that Don was getting screwed in the deal. At least I sure hope he didn’t know. But whether he knew about it before it happened or not it doesn’t really matter. He did find out right after the contract was signed, and he didn’t do anything to make it right with Don, even though Don went to him repeatedly.
R.C.’s character has definitely changed. I think it’s because of the stroke. I don’t know what else to attribute it to. I’ve seen this happen before. Strokes can change people, and usually for the worse. Part of me is very sympathetic to R.C. It’s not like he can help the fact that he had a stroke.
I have an uncle that had a stroke a few years back. The stroke completely changed him. For one thing he turned into a cleptomaniac. He can’t be left alone anywhere. It’s especially bad to ever take him into a store. He’ll put things in his pockets and walk right out the door! He doesn’t seem to comprehend what stealing means anymore. The stroke also affected his walk with the Lord. We don’t see any evidence that he even has a personal walk with the Lord at all anymore. He doesn’t pray or read the Word at all now. Before the stroke his personal devotion time was one of the most important things in his life. Strokes can really change people.
R.C. used to be a very ethical man, and he used to care a lot more about people than he does now. I don’t think R.C.’s stroke affected him as severely as my uncle. R.C. isn’t a cleptomaniac. But R.C. knew that Don had been screwed in the Soli Deo Gloria Ministries acquisition for two years before Frank Vance went public with the story, and R.C. didn’t do anything about it. Then he wound up firing Don. It seems like R.C.’s ethics have just gone right out the window.
July 31st, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Esther
A few things bother me.
1. McArthur has shared the stage at conferences with Sproul Sr in the past year, right?
2. Did this really call for a ‘private’ rebuke? We are talking about donor money here used for a lawsuit AND stealing a business.
3. There is a deeper rooted problem of sin at Ligoneir and firing Tim Dick will not dispose of it. John Duncan proved himself just as unethical during this time. As a matter of fact, I have not been able to listen to anything by Sproul, Sr or Ligon Duncan since this fiasco. Silence by any of Sproul’s peers communicates consent. And sharing a stage definitely communicates approval of the behavior.
They are all from the ‘do as I say, not as I do’ crowd.
July 31st, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Lynn
“But whether he knew about it before it happened or not it doesn’t really matter. He did find out right after the contract was signed, and he didn’t do anything to make it right with Don, even though Don went to him repeatedly.
R.C.’s character has definitely changed. I think it’s because of the stroke. I don’t know what else to attribute it to.”
Thank you, friend of the family. I worked in a hospital for a number of years as a physical therapist, and I agree with you 100%.
You mentioned your uncle and his walk with the Lord. The foundations haven’t changed, and no stroke affects the everlasting arms.
I just ask these questions and raise these points because people need to add Sproul’s disability, which includes brain damage (sorry to be so blunt) to the mix here. You gave some figure of 30%. That is, obviously, a ballpark estimate, but it says there are cognitive difficulties that are significant. I don’t know what they are, and I don’t know how close to being an accurate representation that number is now. But a person who has had a “stroke” which causes obvious impairment for a considerable period of time . . . it is safe to say that for at least the better part of a year he should have been focusing on nothing more than recuperation. And there is a distinct possibility that for a long time he did not have the ability to make executive decisions, even where the decisions called for obvious courses of action.
This is why it is so crucial for leaders of ministries and organizations should have plans for continuance of operation in case they are incapacitated.
July 31st, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Lynn
Timing of things, for those who are interested:
1) “R.C. had a stroke in early 2004, and he may have had a couple more since then that weren’t as serious.”
http://vancetribe.blogspot.com.....i-deo.html
2) “On 22 September 2004 Ligonier Ministries, the ministry of Reformed theologian Dr. RC Sproul acquired Soli Deo Gloria Ministries,”
http://www.religionnews.com/press02/PR112404.html
3) “Orlando, Fla., November 22, 2004 - Dr. R.C. Sproul, founder and chairman of Ligonier Ministries, a Christian educational ministry located in Orlando, Florida, has
appointed Mr. Timothy A. Dick to succeed him as president of Ligonier Ministries effective immediately.
‘I am proud and excited to announce that Tim Dick has been promoted from executive vice president to president of Ligonier Ministries.’”
August 1st, 2007 at 8:13 am
Jen
I have only seen RC in person since his stroke and I was quite impressed with the way he could preach without notes, including remembering all the Greek definitions. I had a small stroke about 18 months ago and my short term memory is severely affected; there is no way I could speak publicly for an hour without notes like that. If he really lost 30% of his mental capabilities, he must have been quite the genius before his stroke.
August 1st, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Former Lig Donor
I’m glad to hear that Tim Dick is finally gone. No one, and I mean absolutely not one single solitary person in the world, will miss him. Like you say though it’s too little too late. R.C. should have dealt with this a long time ago. Better still he should have never appointed a dimwit like Tim in the first place. Firing Tim now won’t bring me back on board when I can so easily find other worthy ministries to support that I can actually trust. I already have.
“Aside from all that, there were also far more blog articles that were critical of Ligonier than positive about the way they handled their lawsuit against Frank.”
I completely agree with that. Here’s an example of a guy who, just like me, was completely heartbroken over the atrocious way that Ligonier handled the whole conflict with Frank Vance. There are a lot more out in the blogosphere than just that, but I use Christopher Barnette as an example because what he says so closely reflects what I believe about it too.
In the final analysis, it doesn’t really matter if Frank Vance was right about Ligonier ripping off Don Kistler or not. There may only be a few people who really know for sure, and for whatever reason, Don Kistler appears to be holding back about what he really knows. That’s really disappointing, but considering how eager Ligonier is to file lawsuits, who can blame him?
I personally think Frank was right about it, but even if he wasn’t, Ligonier acted in the most shameful way possible. Ligonier should have taken the high road. Instead they took the low road, and I mean really, really low. They went as low as they possibly could have. Could they have managed the conflict with Frank Vance any worse than they did? I don’t see how.
To me it doesn’t really matter all that much what Frank Vance did. The much bigger issue is how did Ligonier respond? I will NEVER ever again trust Ligonier, and I certainly won’t ever financially support them again. At this point I don’t even care anymore how great a Bible expositor that R.C. Sproul is. To me it makes no difference when I see how much of a greedy hypocrite that he is. I deeply regret how much that I supported R.C. in the past. It makes me feel very cheated.
August 1st, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Watchman
Speaking of heartbroken former Ligonier donors, some of whom are also bloggers, Ingrid Schlueter of Slice Of Laodicea deserves special mention. Ingrid’s old blog received thousands of visitors a day (I don’t know how many her new blog gets). In September 2006 she wrote several articles about Ligonier. Subsequently she took her blog offline for awhile. Now it’s back. Unfortunately, she didn’t save any of her earlier articles. However, I didn’t have any trouble finding them in The Wayback Machine.
August 1st, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Watchman
This from Dominion Family:
August 1st, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Watchman
Public Statement
from Tim Dick
President and CEO of Ligonier Ministries
has just disappeared from Ligonier’s web site, probably within the past week. It’s been replaced by a site map page.
Here is the Google cache page as of July 20, 2007. Here it is in The Wayback Machine.
Very interesting timing.
August 1st, 2007 at 7:53 pm
a modern voltaire
People - let us be realists for a few moments. RC brought Tim Dick in to Ligonier about 7 years ago. By the end of 2001 Dick had fired or run off all the previous, experienced, knowledgeable management and assumed total control of the ministry. To think that this was not the master plan when RC brought in Tim is to be blind to the reality of the situation. Tim acted exactly as he and RC had planned he would act. RC’s stroke had nothing to do with any of these earlier actions of Ligonier and I genuinely question any impact since 2004. After all, virtually all the old Board of Directors have been replaced also.
August 2nd, 2007 at 9:59 am
Bill
As a former vendor, I can tell you have understated every adjective, verb and adverb about Tim Dick.
But far more troubling is that RC knew/knows everything you’ve pointed out and refuses to do anything. He is as complicit as Dick. How shameful that someone of his theological rootedness would be so inept and willfully disregard doing right… for donors, as a steward, for God.
Shame on him.
August 2nd, 2007 at 1:07 pm
TheIronHare
It’s like a mob that was finally forced to off (or maybe just *hide*) one of its looser cannons. But the Sproulpranos live on! For now.
Dennis
August 2nd, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Randal Dunn
Ligonier also just took down their statement from their senior management. Now all that comes up is a site map page.
http://www.ligonier.org/statem.....gement.php
Is this their idea of “crisis management”?
August 2nd, 2007 at 8:14 pm
jimmy olsen
The tumor was removed, but the cancer is in the lymph nodes, folks. As usual, R.C. and his cronies at Ligonier have found a scapegoat (a guilty scapegoat, but a scapegoat nonetheless), and think by firing that one person “all will be well.” Sorry, that’s happened waaaaay too many times in the history of Ligonier for anyone with even a little knowledge of the situation to swallow that lie. Friends, this didn’t start with Tim Dick. It started, as it had started before, with the poor judgment and willful ignorance of one man. Just shows that you can be a brilliant theologian and be completely lacking in common sense, Christian compassion and anything resembling a conscience. Until true repentance and regret is experienced at the very top of Ligonier’s organizational tree, nothing will change. And I for one am very sorry for that.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:20 am
jimmy olsen
Job openings now available at Ligonier now include a VP of Finance and VP of Development. Any takers? Just email Ligonier’s RC VP of Human Resources, Lil Rozzi.
August 4th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
Former Lig Donor
Job openings now available at Ligonier now include a VP of Finance and VP of Development. Any takers? Just email Ligonier’s RC VP of Human Resources, Lil Rozzi.
ROTFL! Even double pay for the war zone environment wouldn’t tempt me.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Last laugh
Where to begin…there are too many disturbing things about Ligonier to launch into them all. Having been professionally involved with Ligonier, I must say I am not surprised! But, too little too late is definitely right. They fired everyone from that company who actually had qualifications for their jobs and replaced them with their family members who couldn’t succeed in the real world. You see, most of them don’t have degrees and if they do it is psychology. Give me a break! The most ironic part is that when they fired some of their qualified employees, “The Dick” repeatedly said they would never be successful. Funny that this would come from the mouth of a man whose professional “success” has depended on the success of his own father-in-law.
What a sad case of greed, pride and simple depravity. Funny that the very things that are bringing the Sprouls and “The Dick” to their knees are the very things they spent so much time preaching about. I’m just glad to see that some of the men, like John MacArthur, are holding him accountable.
But the blog is exactly right. All this firing will do is was hurt Tim’s pride. His pockets will still be full as RC most likely won’t completely stand up for what’s right. If RC did decide to grow a conscience, he would end up having to fire his entire family. And wouldn’t that make for interesting dinner conversations since they all live under the same roof or in a house that RC bought?
August 15th, 2007 at 8:29 am
IdeasConsequences
RC Sproul’s only reasonable path, only biblical response to the current state of Ligonier Ministries is accept full responsibility, to bow before God with complete repentance, direct apology to his donors and past employees, with restitution where appropriate - and public pronouncement of a change in direction indicative of a humble, repentant heart. And more than that, he could teach Christians and the watching world, for and against him, the valuable lessons of humility and repentance.
I believe RC has two primary goals in this life with which he struggles. More than anything he wants to be remembered as a theologian of high regard & standing for the truth of Scripture and second, he loves his family to a fault like a clan (mafia might be an appropriate word and we might not call it love at all). Unfortunately the second goal has worked to destroy his first. But God can provide grace to the sinner, I know that myself and believe it is RC’s only hope for redemption as a respected theologian and, as a consequence, his ministry may be restored. At the same time, he may well save his family - “if…My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray, and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin, and will heal their land…”
August 15th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
RefCal
This is not a happy time for me. I’ve never been a fan of RC Sproul, because he came on the scene too far into my spiritual journey to offer what I was looking for theologically. John MacArthur, though, is a different story. I listened to him faithfully for years, and intermittently for decades. Chances are (I could check) I even sent him a check once.
We are seeing the crumbling of a stack of cards that will send reverberations throughout the Reformed community. And I think I can pinpoint when this all started. It began when RC Sproul realized his 13-year old namesake was a drunkard. As a man whose position requires that he not be given (at all) to wine, and must rule his household well, he should have disqualified himself from the ministry and taken a job that would allow him lots of time with his son.
Instead, he made the first small compromise with integrity that has led to more and bigger compromises. He’s in so deep now that I doubt he even knows how to back out.
“Sin will lead you farther than you want to go,
Sin will teach you far more than you want to know,
Sin will keep you longer than you want to stay,
Sin will cost you far more than you want to pay”
and btw, I believe I read that “The Dick” is Tim’s behind-his-back nickname at Ligonier.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:38 am
APinkFan
This just in….The latest news is that Tim Dick has been banned from setting foot on Ligonier property.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
james
C’mon, PinkFan, there has to be more to the story than that! How did all this come about?
September 23rd, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Esther
That must make things very awkward at home since he lives with Sproul?
Is Ryan still there?
September 24th, 2007 at 5:39 am
APinkFan
Inside Info:
My source tells me that ‘Tim Dick’s wife, Sherry, is also gone & no longer has an office.’
The word is that they are moving from the ‘nest’ where they have lived for lo these many years. [RC’s house]
It must have been quite an explosion, that would get Tim’s fat butt out of his rent free abode.
Hope he tries to land a ‘real job’.
September 25th, 2007 at 7:36 am
iwasjustwondering
As Christians we should never be happy with the break in relationships. To be Christ-like is to want reconciliation. I felt bad for the brokenness that this news must have brought to a close knit family. None of us would wish this on our own families. We all have sinned. To be productive in our Christian walk we need to be in prayer for these situations. Nothing would be better than repentance and reconciliation. Remember God is sovereign and wants Tim, RC, ligonier and the rest of the Christian community to learn from this and to be more Christ-like. Ask yourselves how can I learn from this. I know many people have been hurt by this season at Lig but wouldn’t repentance and reconciliation be great. This whole thing breaks my heart, how much more does God grieve for this.
September 25th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Watchman
You’re quite right. Even though Tim Dick deserves to be fired (he should have been fired long before Frank Vance found himself morally obligated to go public with the story of Tim Dick defrauding Don Kistler), we shouldn’t be happy about this, and no one should be happy about any family division in the family Sproul. I know that I’m not happy and I seriously doubt that anyone is happy. I seriously doubt that anyone is gloating over this latest news. This is just the latest in a long series of Sproul family debacles.
RC Sproul Jr brought great shame upon the family name of Sproul when he got himself defrocked. Rather than submitting to the Presbytery that he’d taken a vow to obey, RC Sproul Jr publicly maligned his RPCGA fathers and brothers. Where did he learn how to do that? It soon became too apparent that his own father was the one who taught RC Jr how to be such a dishonorable man. Rather than RC Sproul calling his son to repentance, RC Sproul publicly defended his wayward son by claiming that the charges were “fraudulent.”
One of RC Sproul’s biggest problems is that he doesn’t respect and submit to authority. He calls himself a Presbyterian, but he’s Presbyterian in name only. He “parks his ordination” in the PCA, but beyond that he does nothing to make himself accountable. For many years he’s pastored Saint Andrews Chapel, an independent non-denominational church. RC Sproul has actively encouraged Saint Andrews Chapel to remain out of the PCA. RC Sproul hand-picks his own yes-men “elders” and they do nothing to hold him accountable. The same applies to Ligonier Ministries. RC Sproul hand-picks his own board members (including his own wife). They are his yes-men and his board is a sham of accountability.
What this site is intended to do is to hold Reformed ministers (like RC Sproul) and ministries (like Ligonier Ministries) accountable, and to encourage their repentance where needed. If RC Sproul and other autonomists like him had any real accountability in their life, sites like this would be unnecessary.
We’re not seeing repentance from RC Sproul now, and we haven’t seen one iota of it in the past either. It’s extremely unlikely that we’ll see it in the future. The inevitable result will be more sin and more family debacles.
September 25th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Chemnitz
Ligonier has a long history of corruption. Does Walter Kerr sound familiar? He too was caught with hand in the cookie jar and RC did nothing. RC certainly has a problem with picking his CEOs. The Dick is not a new phenomenon at LIG. Beware of the Frog. He is nothing but a liar as well. The frog is also known as John Duncan at Ligonier.
Sorry to hear the Dick has to find a new home. I hope working a real job won’t give the poor fat man a heart attack.
September 25th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
jimmy olsen
I completely agree with you, Watchman. What is bound to happen here is that Tim Dick and his cronies will be made the scapegoats, and the most apologizing RC will do is something like, “I’m sorry, I’m just too trusting” or “This is what happens when I’m not involved in the day to day of Ligonier”. Sorry, for those of us who know better, that dog won’t hunt. The responsibility and accountability lie at the top, with RC himself, but there is no one to hold him accountable, and he will not place himself into a relationship of accountability with anyone.
It is sad. I just don’t see it changing, although I wish, and pray, it would.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Esther
I was also thinking of all the people who thrown aside from Ligoneir to make room for Tim and family and their high salaries.
They are the forgotten ones. The ones who had to start over through no fault of their own.
Watchman, this goes back even further. If we are to believe Sproul, Jr’s auto-biography, Ligonier Tales, then we have to agree that Sproul, Sr. was not qualified to be an elder even back then. And this is ONLY according to the written words of his own son and his pre teen lifestyle. Where was father?
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:08 pm
a modern voltaire
How about some facts from someone on the inside? Who is now president? What happened to Duncan and the others near the top? What about the rest of the Dick family? Any changes on the Board of Directors? Any comments from RC to the Lig staff?
One should be able to get much of this info from the Lig web site, but we know that will never happen.
October 3rd, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Watchman
I just sent the following email:
It’s disappointing when a man who professes to be an Elder provides a bogus email address, like “Elder Rick” just did.
I’m not surprised that one or more people in the Orlando area have attempted to post Question and Answer 145 from the WLC multiple times, some of which were posted right from the Ligonier Ministries’ office.
We at Ministry Watchman fully subscribe to the WCF, the WLC, and the WSC. So if whoever keeps attempting to post these “comments” would like to expound on why they believe we are either in or out of accord with the WLC, feel free. All I ask is that you make some attempt to do so while complying with our posting rules. Using a valid email address would also be appreciated.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Bryan
“Scandal Brewing at Oral Roberts U.”
http://www.breitbart.com/artic.....p;catnum=1
Maybe Ligonier, Vision Forum, et al, can take a lesson or two from “experts”…
October 16th, 2007 at 5:58 am
a modern voltaire
The Lig Web site now has RC as president and Timmy as Director of International Ministry, a new position to expand the outreach worldwide. It’s unfortunate that we have to wait so very long for Ligonier to file its 1099 to find out what his new salary is.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Brandon Giromini
Modern Voltaire,
It won’t be most likely until Fall 2008 that we see any about Tim Dick’s new salary. However, the 2006 Form 990 is now available: Ligonier 2006 Form 990
Pay special special attention to the footnote on page 17. I don’t think I have ever seen this before. I will update my site with the new calculations soon.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Watchman
Brandon,
I’ve never seen anything like this before either:
Apparently R.C. is feeling a little nervous about all the outrageous “compensation” that he’s paying his family members for work that they’re obviously unqualified for.
If you pay an “independent committee” and “special legal counsel” well enough you can probably get them to sign off on just about anything, especially if you don’t name them.
October 22nd, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Lawrence
Could not the independent committee and the special legal counsel be more in response to the accusations leveled that either the board is in the pocket of the Sproul family or that the compensation of Sproul and family is out of line with other non-profits?
This would soundly address both of the issues that you yourself have raised over the past few months. It would seem to me that a benefit of the doubt is more than in order here.