What's Next for MeeGo
By now, you may have read that The Linux Foundation, with the support of several other companies, announced a new project, Tizen, to build a new operating system for devices. This new project is first and foremost open source, and based on Linux. So it begs the question: why not just evolve MeeGo? We believe the future belongs to HTML5-based applications, outside of a relatively small percentage of apps, and we are firmly convinced that our investment needs to shift toward HTML5. Shifting to HTML5 doesn't just mean slapping a web runtime on an existing Linux, even one aimed at mobile, as MeeGo has been. Emphasizing HTML5 means that APIs not visible to HTML5 programmers need not be as rigid, and can evolve with platform technology and can vary by market segment.
Granted, this is a judgment on our part on which reasonable people could disagree, but that's the conclusion I came to.
But in the new project, a lot of things will be the same as they were in the MeeGo project. The Tizen project will reside within the Linux Foundation, will be governed by a Technical Steering Group, and will be developed openly with familiar and improved infrastructure. Much like MeeGo, the Tizen project will support multiple device categories, including Tablets, Netbooks, Handsets, Smart TV, and In-Vehicle Infotainment systems.
Over the next couple of months, we will be working very hard to make sure that users of MeeGo can easily transition to Tizen, and I will be working even harder to make sure that developers of MeeGo can also transition to Tizen.
I want to personally thank everyone who has participated in MeeGo over the past year and a half, and I encourage you to join us at Tizen.org. We hope to use what we learned from the MeeGo project to make Tizen successful, and I hope to see you participating in Tizen!
Imad
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Comments
Meego Nowhere
ok, lets be serious - folks at various parent projects from tizen keep messing with everything every 2 years.
same stupid behaviour in the eeepc asus linux camp.
folks expect an upgrade path. otherwise expect loosing flat out to ubuntu, debian or whomever - they may be clumsy,
but my 500 USD device will be still getting security updates after 2 years.
what about the IVI folks ? what about store apps ? no one aint paying nuffin no more when you don't have any kind of upgrade or keep path.
i can't put time on kindergarden attitude. time is the only thing that money can't buy me when it has run out.
get some real plan, stop fooling around. you ain't getting nowhere this way.
meego was just getting useable and it is dead now. why trust you folks on tizen anyway ? where is the track record ?
have fun, i'm off fixing bugs in haiku & mainline linux.
kind regards,
rc
"fully committed?"
Imad, I'm not saying this just to be a troublemaker, but there's been silence over the statement mere weeks ago that Intel was "fully committed" to MeeGo.
The dichotomy between that statement and the Tizen announcement is creating a huge PR problem for Intel and the Linux Foundation. The best way to address that is head-on. Not silence. Not deflection or denial.
So can we get a statement on that? In the vein of Peter Biddle's welcome candor when apologizing for AppUp's slow adoption?
It could be helpful in restoring credibility.
... linux is what it is...
just a joke.
... Windows is a sad tragedy
... Windows is a sad tragedy ... i'd rather stay with joke ...
really funny, but
some people need to earn money for their family and cannot just joke around all day (I know I'm old...)
End of Meego
Continue with MeeGo anyway
The name is disgusting
They should chnge the name to a cute thing, meego is cute as its look
Tizen is a horrible name. Call it MeeGo5.
The news is good - the marketing is horrid.
Scraping the MeeGo name in exchange for this new name and a bad logo is a huge mistake.
They should cal this project MeeGo5
1. It indicates prgress on an existing project where Tizen suggests another cold start.
2. It implies the inclusion of the HTML5 component which is a big deal.
Way bad marketing...
More on MHO here: http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2011/09/30/meego5-is-what-you-meant...
Meego5???
Meego = QT + QML.
Without QT + QML Tizen (or other names for the OS are just fine).Meego5 without QT+QML would be confusing/bad joke.
Ruining communities
> But in the new project, a lot of things will be the same as they were in the MeeGo project.
Oh I bet it will. Some mistakes are almost guaranteed to be repeated:
* Community involvement w/o any real power *for* the community,
* poor decision making,
* insufficient transparency,
* aggrevating communication skills from decision makers,
* slipped schedules,
* burdened by processes that try to replace common sense.
> I encourage you to join us at Tizen.org.
I encourage you to exactly not do that, don't be silly. Wait until Intel has proven its commitment this time and Tizen devices ship in the million. Only then decide whether Tizen will be worth spending your precious spare time.
Intel can afford running such experiments all the time. One day, one such experiment will succeed (even if by pure chance). But do you want to be Intel's lab rat?
In the end, Intel will choose Android anyway
Preventing a gnu/Linux mobile distribution from making progress is just a hobby for Intel. If their processors ever end up in a mass-market phone, those phones will run Android. The real puzzle is why the Linux Foundation wants to sabotage Linux.
INTEL the mobil Linux killer?
How often do you want to restart your strategy? The success of iOS and Android is not because they change strategy every 1.5 years. Both are far from being the perfect OS in an imperfect world. They simply exists! (Something you cannot really say about any pure Linux platform named Maemo, LiMo, Moblin, Meego...).
Personally I will stay with Qt development. This framework is very good today and Nokia and Digia are still doing a good job on this (both Qt and Qt Creator are evolving fast and stable). I hope for (official) Qt ports for iOS and Android in the future so I can develop software for any platform I decide.
I will definitly support a Meego fork!
Gilead
HTML5+Qt actually possible
Maybe they will not leave Qt that fast... You can actually create HTML5 + C++(Qt...) apps.
But, at the same time, if to take a look at the files created by the wizard from Qt Creator it's a QtWebKit app which runs an HTML5 site.
What a waste
Here I have been following Meego with great interest over ever since it started (I started learning Qt and QML and tried my hand at developing apps). I thought it was a great move to speed things up as opposed to Maemo/Moblin trying to do the same thing. Now Meego has been scrapped and I can wait another couple of years for a device that may or may not see the light of day. At least I still have my trusted Nokia N900 and when that one day deserves a replacement I guess I will replace it with an Android phone with an ARM processor, that way I wont support Intel and wait for them to have another brain hemorrhage that will result in me having wasted my time.
device burnout....
long time ago i was hopping for the new and flashy stuff...
i spent a lot of money to import sendo x^2, i got early iphone and android stuff...
lack of upgrade path for a hundreds of USD expensive hightech device ending up as a brick anyway
made me turn to a simple solution - use a laptop running ubuntu (i was mac-os fan, until they went 10.7 and lock-in)
and use a motofone f3 - it has no features at all, but at least i can make phonecalls and when it is bricked, i get a new
one on ebay for 10 USD or less... i can even use them as a hammer or to open a bottle of beer when i feel like it.
they are dead cheap. the numbers are on the sim. its the perfect throw-away phone.
f**k missing upgrade paths or software-fixes. it is so simple, it won't even do MMS or color. way to go. works for me.
skype from laptop for anything fancy.
(i'm so sick of all this crap update path ruining by major industry, i even accepted living on OS/2 and haiku for now,
at least they are stable minded - i can get around the other stuff, but breaking devel environments sucks...)
over and out,
rc
What's Next for MeeGo^H^H^H^H^HIntel
While I appreciate what Intel has done with Moblin and Meego, you can't keep on messing with the community like this and expect to succeed.
By all means, go and do your Tizen thing with Samsung, even take advantage of MeeGo code, just stop pretending it is the new MeeGo (and please remove that "Learn more at tizen.org" link under the MeeGo logo).
MeeGo is open source, it will go where it wants to, with or without you Intel!
And where the heck are you TLF!! You are supposed to have governance of this project, not just be a puppet for Intel.
Baah!
This is a terrible move, in my opinion
I am terribly disappointed that the Linux Foundation has done this. If you think the future belongs to HTML5 apps (I do not), then you should have just made certain that such apps were well supported by Meego. For those of us who maintained projects for Openmoko, then Maemo, then Meego, this is one stab in the back too many. The reasons you give for this transition make no sense, since nothing would have precluded making these changes within Meego, so we are left to speculate about what your real motives are for ensuring that countless hours of volunteer work will be discarded.
Whats next....
Intel selling cards for unlocking CPU Features? Oh, wait a minute.... :/
hp did bet on html5 as well...
No seriously , for some type of application html5 is fine, but if you want seriously use the gpu or build native application ,serious application , then c++ is needed whatever the framework you are using.
Betting on html5 only is a mistake ,check top download app on ios and android you will see.
I had been very upset the 11 feb 2011 and i remember the same day Intel re-affirm is commitment for Meego.
We developed for Meego and we completed our dev and august.....with no market to deploy our apps(luckily we did ios app and android as well).
It' s not advise to play with the developer community like this.
I hope your new framework will have a kind of NDK.....at least
david
betting
Tizen is betting on HTML5 *mostly*, not only.
Is this only a Android alternative?
I still don't get it.
Is this a open Linux operation system with all his benefits, APIs and proting possibilities (GTK, Qt, ...) or is this only a Linux core and a ugly HTML5 based runtime on top without the chance to port common Linux natives to Tizen?
If it is only a Android clode, where are the benefit in such a project?
upside down
I'm almost busy at this time. So many people to teach the difference between FLASH and HTML. And now, I will have to teach them the difference between HTML and Qt...
Could you think about real developers before thinking about "I-want-to-program-with-my-mouse-only" people?
What's next for MeeGo
> I want to personally thank everyone who has participated in MeeGo over the past year and a half...
You don't do that with a blog post!
@ Kasi - "Most important question yet to be answered:
"Most important question yet to be answered: Is this the end (forced killing) of Qt in smartphone (in Symbian till 2016) market?"
No, Google "WSJ+Nokia+Meltemi"
All mameo codenames being based of 'winds' this would rather suggest that Nokia is going to Bada'ise its Linux/Qt investment.
http://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/meegoharmattan-a-woefully-m...
Meego Fork
I want to fork meego and continue this project based on the Qt framework and fully opensource, who is with me?
I am IN !!
Lets do it. If you guys are serious about this, lets create a email thread and get into the details?
I'm not alone
http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-September/484156.html
I'm not alone
http://wiki.meego.com/Blueprint
Sounds interesting
Sounds interesting. Looks like if Intel does not leaves too much choice for those who loves MeeGo as it has been :\.
At the end of day, I do not need a cheap ripoff copy of Android where custom Java stuff, borked and incompatible with anything else on the Earth, replaced with custom HTML5 - incompatible with anything else on the Earth as well, because right now HTML5+JS still lacks a whole dozen of official APIs required to write fully-featured locally running programs, so Intel+Sams have to reinvent a whole dozen of wheels before HTML5 will become a really viable alternative. For example, there are no standard APIs to access accelerometers, cameras, LEDs&buttons, very limited APIs for files, sound and graphics, etc, etc and HTML+JS apps tend to be very slow even compared to android's Java (and it's not like if I like Android devices speed and responsiveness at all).
Btw, I can also remember there was a very cool project: Mer. It has been fully opensource version of Maemo OS. This project has been shut down by author when Meego has started, as it has become a duplicate effort. Granted that now Intel has turned into some madness, Mer not seems to be duplicated effort, once again. Maybe some parts of it could be used as well? Yeah, parts are GTK-based, but actually, there is a number of good GTK programs which were adopted to mobile screens already. I don't see why those shouldn't be reused.
Hardware
Will you also assemble smartphones in your garage?
Maybe it will be possible to
Maybe it will be possible to order smartphones without preinstalled software from some vendor? Google Nexus is made on Samsung hardware for example.
Hm...
> Will you also assemble smartphones in your garage?
Just for fun, you can visit something like http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04-Early-Adopter&referer=... and see that it's not as fantastic as it sounds: if you really want to, you can do that, actually.
Why not!
You have to remember that the google empire started in a garage!
btw i wont create an hardware specific product, any hardware producer can use meego on his product
Meego Fork
If I could program I would mate.
Open source is,once again, looking like a symbolic mish mash of vanity projects.
I thought Meego would become mainstream(as the netbook version works brilliantly) but, here we go again........
Back to Ubuntu for me.
Good luck with it.
Meego Fork
Is not all about programming
There's the design, the administrative part and other things
I want to see what we can do without Intel's restrictions.
We can base everything on Qt, we can create an alternative platform that gives freshness to the market we can also create our repository where all the applications can stay and give to every hardware producer a valid alternative to Android
we can create a little startup and base our business model on the red hat model providing assistence to those who want to use our MeeGo
Whoa, that sucks!
Hey, Intel! Do you honestly believe that we're just a bunch of monkeys you can direct into any direction you wish? I've learned Qt for some time ... just to wake up in one not-so-beautiful day and to figure out that it has been WASTE OF TIME? Just because some of your mad managers has decided so? Whoa, that's so cool. I would call this RIPOFF. Now, I can't imagine reasons why I should trust you and follow you with new OS. What would prevent your mad managers from declaring "html5 is bad, something else is better" after year or two? Nothing? Hmph, cool. Not to mention that HTML5-ONLY OS is a boring crap which I do not need personally. I would never use OS like this. While I'm ok about HTML5 and may even learn it, I'm absolutely hate way you've thrown it on our heads. That was stupid, Intel
lol
good luck finding developers for that.
End of Qt (only in Symbian till 2016)?
Elop & his employer Microsoft are definitely having a gala time with this announcement. With a single shot (saying no to MeeGo), they destroyed a promising empire.
Nokia, Intel, Samsung, ???
maemo, Moblin, LiMo, MeeGo, Bada, Tizen, ???
So, based on the previous trends, I am guessing, after Samsung ditches the project mid-way, Meizu would take it over. And the name would be "Cheeken". Awesome.
Most important question yet to be answered: Is this the end (forced killing) of Qt in smartphone (in Symbian till 2016) market?
Changing mid stream is plain dumb
Looking at the history of Maemo / Moblin / Meego I can see the following:
- Maemo 6 was scheduled (by Nokia) for early 2010.
- Merging Moblin with Maemo let the schedule slip by a year
- After abandoning MeeGo finally in October 2011 Nokia is ready to ship a first "MeeGo" product (which actually is more Maemo than Meego)
- Pissed at Nokia Intel decides to merge MeeGo with LiMo, products are announced for 2012.
Let's be clear: There is no MeeGo product on the market that has any relevance
There will be no TiZen product on the market of any relevance in 2012 and 2013.
In 2013 Samsung will ditch Tizen to go with LiBaDo.
Intel will merge Tizen with Dumbo and will announce products for 2014.
Bottom line: It is plain dumb to change projects midstream. Lost effort, lost opportunities and lost goodwill.
Thing is, let Intel and Nokia and Samsung do what they want.
But Linux Foundation should not give their name to a shell game.
Exactly, couldn't have said
Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. Intel is like that man that keeps getting married to different women but either they dump him or he dumps them.
In the end Intel has no kids while the neighbors ( ARM, Apple and Google ) do. Intel at some point even had an ARM business but they decided they don't need that, smart move indeed. Instead of searching for that perfect woman Intel should just concentrate on making some kids in the mobile space.
Changing wives every 1-2 years is probably not going to help.
In the meantime Nokia just had some kids but it decided to dump them before they were born to make some with the ones that never had any success with their kids ( Microsoft ).
Some smart move going on in the tech industry. And you wonder why Apple is so successful, because almost everybody else is a failure.
You have to use both Qt C++ and HTML5
Replacing MeeGo, a bad or good news? It depends...
It's sad to leave MeeGo but with only Intel it's not easy to release devices. So, Intel decided to start a new project with Samsung, ok. Tizen could be a good solution to fight against Android and iOS like MeeGo Harmattan is actually doing but with support and more devices. I've just seen one mistake here : HTML5. This is a good technology, especially for the web, it was designed for it. But, can you imagine a web browser like Firefox or Opera made in HTML/Javascript? A multi-protocol communication client with this technology? Or a multimedia player like VLC running on HTML5? It is simply a joke. We need a powerfull framework like Qt C++, just look at the Nokia N9 what they've done with QT/QML. HTML5 could be a great idea for small apps like the weather, clock or some brand's apps but not as a primary choice. Qt is open-source, powerfull and MeeGo apps were easily developped with. Please don't make this mistake like Elop did : changing everithing and delete all the great work. You have to keep best results of MeeGo, Harmattan's spirit. Tizen needs Qt to win!
the slower the better?
Just my opinion...
Intel is promoting HTML5 because it's slow. Sounds crazy? Think about this. Intel makes money from regular desktop/server cpu upgrades. They think that the slower the software, the more often people will ask for CPU upgrades. They will probably ditch Qt.
They forget one thing - they have Apple as a competitor. When Apple first released iPhone they also tried to push HTML as SDK for 3rd party developers. That did not work. As soon as they opened their native SDK, developers jumped on their train.
As slow as Android is, it's still much faster than html5 apps.
Another thing, htnl is not meant for apps. I have yet to see an excellent html-based mobile app, except simple apps with one-page GUI.
So, compared to iPhone and Android phones, a Tizen phone will be the slowest or the most power hungry one. Great perspectives. People will love Tizen phones.
disappointed
not sure what else to say - was excited about meego platform and being able to port desktop apps across using qt. not sure where this announcement leaves things. i thought meego was an insightful, potentially brilliant, long term platform. am disappointed and feel let down.
I love Qt, but HTML5 is a smart move
I’ve supported Qt for a long time. Technically, Qt is the best toolkit out there.
I believe in Open Source. The OS community is a safety net which protects us from risk which comes from a shift in strategy. This year, we have seen strategy shifts from Nokia/Qt, Hp/WebOs, and now Intel with Meego. Open source increases options and reduces risk.
I still believe in Qt. Everyday, I hear from another commercial user of Qt, that wants to move to the LGPL asking for commercial grade support. . The common thread is that these companies are writing software for themselves, or for devices that they are making. The productivity of Qt helps drive cost down.
App developers however, are trying to build apps to sell on other people’s devices. They live in a different world, a world, where volume is king.
I love Qt, but I do what customers ask of me. I’ve built apps that support lot’s of platforms including Meego, Symbian, Windows mobile, iPhone, Android, and even EFL. Supporting many devices, with native API’s is hard.. I wish we could get Qt on these platforms but it can’t. We use HTML5 because it was a “write once deploy everywhere” strategy that works.
Intel made a smart move by teaming up with Samsung. They need someone to take the risk to ship the first million devices. I hope that Qt will be part of Tizen, but the important part, is that Open Source development moves forward.
They are building the consumer market and a eco-system for the rest of us to live in.
Intel is being smart to focus on HTML5 for devices that run 3rd party apps. Qt is still a smart choose for internally developed devices and apps.
Peter Winston
ICS CEO
HTML5 may be a smart thing,
HTML5 may be a smart thing, but the overall handling of maemo, meego, tizen whatever-the-name leaves no choice but to dump the entire thing and go for something stable.
saying that intel needs someone to take the risk and then talk about samsung is a dumb equation - the buyer beware, cuz he taketh the risk. all they say is "thanks for buying N9 or whatever device and good bye and good riddance". what makes you think it will be better with the samsung tizen stuff ? NOT BUYING THAT (Talk, Device, whatever - your choice).
and since when have the customers (i mean the person buying the device) asked to dump meego ?
some folks at marketing are all iffy and jiffy about html5, but they have no **** clue about the amount of work the programmers put into their ****ing appstore stuff... NO THANKS, NOT BUYING THAT ANYMORE.
they are building an ecosystem ? no, they are not. they are constantly tearing it down, building it new, like friggin kids doin sandcastles at the beach, where no body cares. go on, get a live outside that cheap talk. invest money (yours, not your play money) into that kind of stuff, and see how it feels when someone tosses YOUR work worth 5-6 digits down the drain. with some supersmart ace from the sleeve move.
once again. thanks, I am NOT BUYING THAT ANYMORE.
Kind regards,
disgruntled Dev
credibility
I agree that teaming up with samsung is a smart move.
But dropping meego like this isn't a smart move.
It is about credibility. And Intel doesn't have any, anymore.
Who in it's right mind will start to develop on a platform which is run by people who have a history of dropping the platform and api's this far in to the game ???
I can't imagine that any meego developers not employed by intel or sumsung (and maybe a few other partners) would switch to develope for tizen.
I would choice a platform which is under more stable management!!!
I like the idea of open
I like the idea of open source and the idea of freedom.
Linux for me = knowledge and gift for humanity.
I didn’t like the idea meego is optimized for Intel chips but I say is ok, Intel has almost
monopoly in Industry, Intel cheap is good, I will close my eyes.
Some rumors on net :
Intel remains 'fully committed' to MeeGo
But open to help from other companies
Mobile phones News
By Kate Solomon
September 9th |
Please notice the date .(:.
I almost lost my trust in the brand Intel.
Forcing Linux foundations members to use only HTML5 as primary framework for me is far from freedom.
Please keep QT.
QT make me choose devices with Intel cheap, without QT I will go for ARM (proved low power consumption) for embedded and for desktop maybe AMD is more Linux friendly.
Integration bits
It would be great in ideal world to write an application once and run everywhere. But this was impossible even with Qt/QML! And the reason - integration to platform. Yeah, I know the plan is to have some native devel. kit but that means - write once the bottom layer in C/C++ and then one UI for Tizen (ah, makes me problem to remember it, hope it's correct), then Java UI for Android, then QML UI for Symbian/Harmattan and MeeGo. No way to make it working on WP7 etc. And you know it from desktop - web applications are nice but it's mess. Even Google has a problem to make then look and feel similar! Same for mobile web apps available right now - it's better to get platform based app...
I believe it could be possible in HTML5 to do it properly with all integration bits just I don't think Intel can make it (after seeing their incompetence with AppUp - great idea, bad implementation).
Donate it!
I read this post some hours ago and I could not believe it. So now this new OS will be based on HTML5 and open standards. It seems it will be something like webOS. Now the questions are, is HTML5 (still in development) ready for an application development use of this kind? ; HTML5 will require a layout engine, Will these HTML5-based apps have a better performance than those developed with Qt? Knowing all the security problems that web apps have carried, will Tizen HTML5-based apps secure? Is this all a good desition?
As the post say, reasonable people can disagree, why not donate MeeGo to Apache Foundation or someone else?
(sorry for the bad english)